Radian Group Inc (RDN) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the second quarter 2025 Radian Group conference call. (Operator Instructions) . Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

您好，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Radian Group 2025 年第二季電話會議。（操作員指令）。請注意，今天的會議正在錄製。

I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Dan Kobell, Head of Investor Relations and Capital Management. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給今天的發言人、投資者關係和資本管理主管 Dan Kobell。請繼續。

Thank you, and welcome to Radian's second quarter 2025 conference call. Our press release, which contains Radian's financial results for the quarter, was issued yesterday evening and is posted to the Investors section of our website at radian.com.

謝謝，歡迎參加 Radian 2025 年第二季電話會議。我們的新聞稿包含 Radian 本季的財務業績，已於昨天晚上發布，並發佈在我們的網站 radian.com 的投資者部分。

This press release includes certain non-GAAP measures that may be discussed during today's call, including adjusted pretax operating income, adjusted diluted net operating income per share and adjusted net operating return on equity.

本新聞稿包含今天電話會議上可能討論的某些非公認會計準則指標，包括調整後的稅前營業收入、調整後的每股稀釋淨營業收入和調整後的淨營業股本回報率。

A complete description of all of our non-GAAP measures may be found in press release Exhibit F and reconciliations of these measures to the most comparable GAAP measures may be found in press release Exhibit G. These exhibits are on the Investors section of our website.

我們所有非公認會計準則 (non-GAAP) 指標的完整描述可在新聞稿附件 F 中找到，而這些指標與最具可比性的 GAAP 指標的對帳可在新聞稿附件 G 中找到。這些附件位於我們網站的「投資者」部分。

Today, you will hear from Rick Thornberry, Radian's Chief Executive Officer; and Sumita Pandit, President and Chief Financial Officer.

今天，您將聽到 Radian 執行長 Rick Thornberry 和總裁兼財務長 Sumita Pandit 的演講。

Before we begin, I would like to remind you that comments made during the call will include forward-looking statements. These statements are based on current expectations, estimates, projections and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties, which may cause actual results to differ materially. For a discussion of these risks, please review the cautionary statements regarding forward-looking statements included in our earnings release and the risk factors included in our 2024 Form 10-K and subsequent reports filed with the SEC. These are also available on our website.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，電話會議期間的評論將包括前瞻性陳述。這些聲明是基於目前的預期、估計、預測和假設，受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果有重大差異。若要討論這些風險，請查看我們收益報告中有關前瞻性陳述的警示聲明以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的 2024 年 10-K 表格和後續報告中包含的風險因素。這些也可以在我們的網站上找到。

Now I would like to turn the call over to Rick.

現在我想把電話轉給里克。

Good morning, and thank you all for joining us today. I am pleased to report strong performance for Radian in the second quarter and the first half of the year. Our results continue to reflect the strength of our high-quality mortgage insurance portfolio as well as our disciplined approach to capital management and operational efficiency.

早安，感謝大家今天參加我們的活動。我很高興地報告 Radian 在第二季和上半年表現強勁。我們的業績繼續反映了我們高品質抵押貸款保險組合的實力以及我們對資本管理和營運效率的嚴謹態度。

I will start by sharing a few financial and business highlights. We increased book value per share by 12% year-over-year, generating net income of $142 million in the second quarter and delivering a return on equity of 12.5%. Our primary mortgage insurance in force, which is the main driver of future earnings for our company, grew to another all-time high of $277 billion. And consistent with trends over the last several quarters, our mortgage insurance portfolio delivered strong credit performance with cures exceeding new defaults during the quarter. Overall, our outlook for our Mortgage Insurance business remains positive.

我將首先分享一些財務和商業亮點。我們的每股帳面價值年增 12%，第二季淨收入 1.42 億美元，股本回報率為 12.5%。我們主要的抵押貸款保險有效額度，即我們公司未來獲利的主要驅動力，再創歷史新高，達到 2,770 億美元。與過去幾季的趨勢一致，我們的抵押貸款保險組合表現出色，本季的補救措施超過了新的違約情況。總體而言，我們對抵押貸款保險業務的前景仍然樂觀。

Our strong financial position and capital flexibility have allowed us to deliver excellent financial results and help our customers transform risk into opportunity while also returning value to our stockholders.

我們強大的財務狀況和資本靈活性使我們能夠提供出色的財務業績，並幫助我們的客戶將風險轉化為機遇，同時也為我們的股東帶來價值。

Turning to the housing and mortgage market. There's no shortage of headlines today about the challenges facing the housing market, particularly with regard to housing supply constraints and elevated home prices. While these factors challenge affordability, there is stability in the consumer and labor market, including positive employment trends and wage growth.

轉向住房和抵押貸款市場。當今的頭條新聞中不乏有關房地產市場面臨的挑戰的報道，特別是住房供應限制和房價上漲。儘管這些因素對負擔能力構成挑戰，但消費者和勞動力市場保持穩定，包括積極的就業趨勢和薪資成長。

At the same time, housing demand remains strong, especially among first-time homebuyers as millennials, the largest generation in American history, have moved into their prime homebuying years.

同時，住房需求依然強勁，尤其是首次購屋者的需求，因為千禧世代是美國史上最大的一代，已經進入了購屋的黃金時期。

While these are prominent market trends nationally, they vary in each region across the country. And the future outlook for each of these regions also evolves over time, which is why our approach is grounded in data. We take these market factors and regional nuances into account as we leverage our proprietary data and analytics, including our RADAR rates risk-based pricing to inform our

雖然這些是全國範圍內突出的市場趨勢，但全國各地的情況有所不同。而這些地區的未來前景也會隨著時間的推移而演變，這就是為什麼我們的方法以數據為基礎。我們利用專有數據和分析（包括 RADAR 利率基於風險的定價）來考慮這些市場因素和區域細微差別，以指導我們的

strategic pricing decisions. This allows us to dynamically adjust our market and credit segment exposure, taking into consideration national and regional trends in order to maximize economic value for our company and stockholders.

策略定價決策。這使我們能夠動態調整我們的市場和信貸部門曝險，同時考慮國家和地區趨勢，以最大限度地提高我們公司和股東的經濟價值。

I'm proud to say since 1977, Radian has supported lenders and their borrowers by helping more than 8.5 million families achieve their dream of homeownership in an affordable, responsible and sustainable way. For many families, it's been estimated to take more than 2 decades to save for a 20% down payment. Our private mortgage insurance products helps qualified borrowers overcome this financial hurdle while also creating a path to potential wealth accumulation with their home as an investment.

我很自豪地說，自 1977 年以來，Radian 一直為貸方及其借款人提供支持，幫助超過 850 萬個家庭以可負擔、負責任和可持續的方式實現了擁有住房的夢想。對許多家庭來說，估計需要 20 多年的時間才能存夠 20% 的首付。我們的私人抵押貸款保險產品可協助合格的借款人克服此財務障礙，同時也為他們的房屋投資創造潛在的財富累積途徑。

The recent passage of the One Big Beautiful Bill Act further enhances this affordability as mortgage insurance premiums are once again tax deductible. And as I've said before, our mortgage insurance industry is well positioned to play our important role in the housing finance system and serve as the only source of permanent private capital that stands in front of US taxpayers, consistently underwriting mortgage credit risk through the market cycles.

最近通過的《一項大而美麗的法案》進一步增強了這種負擔能力，因為抵押貸款保險費再次可以免稅。正如我之前所說，我們的抵押貸款保險行業完全有能力在住房金融體系中發揮重要作用，並成為美國納稅人面前唯一的永久私人資本來源，在整個市場週期中持續承保抵押貸款信用風險。

As a result, we remain closely aligned with policymakers on Capitol Hill, the administration and the FHFA and our shared mission of bridging the gap to affordable, responsible and sustainable homeownership for more Americans through various economic cycles.

因此，我們始終與國會山莊、政府和聯邦住房金融局的政策制定者保持密切聯繫，我們的共同使命是在各種經濟週期中幫助更多美國人實現可負擔、負責任和可持續的住房所有權。

Sumita will now cover the details of our financial and capital positions.

Sumita 現在將介紹我們的財務和資本狀況的詳細資訊。

Thank you, Rick, and good morning to you all. Our second quarter results demonstrate another strong quarter of performance. We achieved net income of $142 million or $1.02 per diluted share, an increase compared to $0.98 per diluted share reported in the first quarter. We generated a return on equity of 12.5%, reflecting the strong fundamentals of our business and grew book value per share 12% year-over-year to $33.18.

謝謝你，里克，大家早安。我們第二季的業績再次證明我們業績表現強勁。我們實現淨收入 1.42 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 1.02 美元，較第一季報告的每股攤薄收益 0.98 美元有所增長。我們的股本回報率為 12.5%，反映了我們業務的強勁基本面，每股帳面價值年增 12%，達到 33.18 美元。

This book value per share growth is in addition to our regular stockholder dividends, which were $35 million during the quarter. Our reported book value per share also includes $2.02 of unrealized net loss on investments that is expected to accrete back into book value per share over time.

每股帳面價值的成長是在我們的常規股東股息（本季為 3500 萬美元）之外的。我們報告的每股帳面價值還包括 2.02 美元的未實現投資淨損失，預計隨著時間的推移，該損失將重新累積到每股帳面價值。

Turning now to a few key drivers of our results, which highlight the consistency, balance and resiliency of our Mortgage Insurance business model. Our total revenues continued to be strong in the second quarter at $318 million. Slides 10 through 12 in our presentation include details on our mortgage insurance in force portfolio as well as other key factors impacting our net premiums earned. We generated $234 million in net premiums earned in the quarter, consistent with the past several quarters.

現在來談談我們業績的幾個關鍵驅動因素，這些因素凸顯了我們的房貸保險業務模式的一致性、平衡性和彈性。我們第二季的總營收持續保持強勁，達到 3.18 億美元。我們簡報中的第 10 至 12 張投影片詳細介紹了我們的有效抵押貸款保險組合以及其他影響我們淨保費收入的關鍵因素。本季我們獲得了 2.34 億美元的淨保費收入，與過去幾季持平。

Our large, high-quality primary mortgage insurance in force portfolio grew to another all-time high of $277 billion. We wrote $14.3 billion of new insurance written in the second quarter of 2025, marking a 3% increase compared to the same period last year. As shown on Slide 10, our persistency rate remained strong at 84% this quarter. We remain focused on writing NIW that we believe will generate future earnings and economic value while effectively maintaining the portfolio's health, balance and profitability.

我們龐大、高品質的有效主要抵押貸款保險組合成長至 2,770 億美元，再創歷史新高。2025 年第二季度，我們簽發了 143 億美元的新保險，比去年同期成長了 3%。如投影片 10 所示，本季我們的堅持率仍保持在 84% 的強勁水準。我們仍然專注於編寫我們認為將產生未來收益和經濟價值的 NIW，同時有效地維持投資組合的健康、平衡和盈利能力。

As of the end of the second quarter, over 60% of our insurance in force had a mortgage rate of 6% or lower. Given current mortgage interest rates, these policies are less likely to cancel due to refinancing in the near term, and we, therefore, continue to expect our persistency rate to remain strong.

截至第二季末，我們超過 60% 的有效保險的抵押貸款利率為 6% 或更低。鑑於目前的抵押貸款利率，這些政策不太可能因短期內再融資而取消，因此，我們繼續預計我們的持續率將保持強勁。

As shown on Slide 12, the in force premium yield for our mortgage insurance portfolio remained stable as expected at 38 basis points. With strong persistency rates and the current positive industry pricing environment, we expect the in-force premium yield to generally remain stable for the remainder of the year as well. Our provision for losses and related credit trends continue to be positive with strong cure activity and very low claim levels.

如投影片 12 所示，我們的房貸保險組合的有效保費收益率保持穩定，符合預期，為 38 個基點。由於持續率較高且當前行業定價環境積極，我們預計今年剩餘時間內有效保費收益率也將基本保持穩定。我們的損失準備金和相關信貸趨勢持續保持積極態勢，治療活動強勁，索賠水準非常低。

On Slide 16, we provide trends for our primary default inventory. Total defaults decreased to approximately 22,000 loans at quarter end, resulting in a portfolio default rate of 2.27%, down 6 basis points from the previous quarter. Cures continued to outpace new defaults with new defaults decreasing 8% to approximately 11,500 in the second quarter compared to approximately 12,500 reported in the first quarter.

在投影片 16 上，我們提供了主要預設庫存的趨勢。季度末，違約貸款總數減少至約 22,000 筆，導致貸款組合違約率為 2.27%，較上一季下降 6 個基點。違約率持續超過新增違約率，第二季新增違約率下降 8% 至約 11,500 例，而第一季報告的新增違約率約為 12,500 例。

As we noted in the past, our new defaults continue to contain significant embedded equity, which has been a key driver of recent favorable trends, including higher cure rates and reduced severity for policies that result in claim submission.

正如我們過去所指出的，我們的新違約仍然包含大量嵌入權益，這是近期有利趨勢的主要驅動力，包括更高的治癒率和導致索賠的政策的嚴重程度降低。

As shown on Slide 17, our cure trends have been very consistent and positive in recent periods, meaningfully exceeding our initial default to claim expectations. Cure rates in the second quarter exhibited typical seasonal trends and compare favorably to similar periods from prior years.

如投影片 17 所示，我們近期的治癒趨勢非常一致且積極，大大超出了我們最初的違約索賠預期。第二季的治癒率呈現典型的季節性趨勢，與往年同期相比有所改善。

Let's turn to Slide 18. We maintained our initial default to claim rate of 7.5%, which resulted in $48 million of loss provision for new defaults in the second quarter. Positive reserve development on prior-period defaults of $36 million partially offset this provision for new defaults. As a result, we recognized a net expense of $12 million in the second quarter compared to $15 million in the first quarter.

讓我們翻到第 18 張投影片。我們維持初始違約索賠率 7.5%，這導致第二季新違約損失準備金為 4,800 萬美元。前期違約的 3,600 萬美元正準備金發展部分抵消了新違約的準備金。因此，我們第二季的淨支出為 1,200 萬美元，而第一季的淨支出為 1,500 萬美元。

Moving to our other business lines. Adjusted pretax operating loss for All Other was approximately $16.4 million in the second quarter compared to the loss of approximately $3.5 million in the first quarter. The increase is primarily driven by lower revenue this quarter within our Mortgage Conduit business as a result of mark-to-market changes on residential mortgage loans held for sale.

轉向我們的其他業務線。第二季所有其他業務的調整後稅前營業虧損約為 1,640 萬美元，而第一季的虧損約為 350 萬美元。成長的主要原因是本季我們的抵押貸款管道業務收入下降，這是由於持有待售的住宅抵押貸款的市價變化造成的。

Now turning to our other expenses where we continue to seek additional operating efficiencies. For the second quarter, our other operating expenses totaled $89 million. The increase from prior quarter was expected as it aligns with the timing for our annual share- based incentive grants similar to previous years. As communicated previously, we expect operating expenses of $320 million for the full year 2025, a decrease of 8% compared to $348 million in 2024.

現在轉向我們的其他開支，我們將繼續尋求額外的營運效率。第二季度，我們的其他營運費用總計 8,900 萬美元。與上一季相比有所增長是意料之中的，因為這與我們與前幾年類似的年度股權激勵授予時間相一致。如前所述，我們預計 2025 年全年營運費用為 3.2 億美元，較 2024 年的 3.48 億美元下降 8%。

Moving to our capital, available liquidity and related strategic actions. Radian Guaranty's financial position remains strong. We paid a $200 million dividend to Radian Group in the second quarter while maintaining a stable PMIERs cushion of $2 billion. We expect that Radian Guaranty will pay up to $795 million of total distributions to Radiant Group in 2025, in line with its 2024 statutory net income. This $795 million of total capital return includes the $400 million already paid in the first half of the year.

轉向我們的資本、可用流動性和相關策略行動。Radian Guaranty 的財務狀況依然強勁。我們在第二季向 Radian Group 支付了 2 億美元的股息，同時保持了 20 億美元的穩定 PMIER 緩衝。我們預計，Radian Guaranty 將在 2025 年向 Radiant Group 支付高達 7.95 億美元的總分配額，與其 2024 年的法定淨收入一致。這 7.95 億美元的總資本回報包括今年上半年已經支付的 4 億美元。

Moving to our holding company, Radian Group. In the first half of 2025, we repurchased approximately 13.5 million shares of our common stock, surpassing the combined repurchases of 2023 and 2024 as we took advantage of the market opportunity to purchase significant shares at a price level that is immediately accretive to book value. This brought our total return of capital to stockholders in the first half of the year to more than $500 million.

前往我們的控股公司 Radian Group。2025 年上半年，我們回購了約 1,350 萬股普通股，超過了 2023 年和 2024 年的回購總和，因為我們利用市場機會以立即增加帳面價值的價格水準購買了大量股票。這使得我們上半年向股東的總資本回報超過 5 億美元。

Our available holding company liquidity was $784 million at the end of the second quarter. The decline in liquidity this quarter of approximately $50 million was due to higher share repurchases, which we continue to believe was an attractive use of a portion of our excess liquidity. We also have an undrawn credit facility with borrowing capacity of $275 million, providing us with additional financial flexibility.

截至第二季末，我們可用的控股公司流動資金為 7.84 億美元。本季流動性下降約 5000 萬美元，原因是股票回購增加，我們仍然認為這是對我們部分過剩流動性的一種有吸引力的利用方式。我們還擁有未提取的信貸額度，借款能力為 2.75 億美元，為我們提供了額外的財務靈活性。

I will now turn the call back over to Rick.

我現在將把電話轉回給里克。

Thank you, Sumita. Our results in the quarter continue to reflect the balance and resiliency of our company as well as the strength and flexibility of our capital and liquidity positions. I want to recognize and thank our Radiant team for the outstanding work they do every day. And now operator, we would be happy to take questions.

謝謝你，Sumita。本季的業績持續反映了我們公司的平衡性和彈性，以及我們資本和流動性狀況的實力和靈活性。我要表揚並感謝我們的 Radiant 團隊每天所做的出色工作。現在接線員，我們很樂意回答問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Doug Harter of UBS.

瑞銀的道格·哈特。

Hoping you could talk about your view on how much liquidity you feel like you want to hold up at the holding company as we think about the magnitude of capital return that you can continue in the second half?

當我們考慮下半年可以繼續實現的資本回報幅度時，希望您能談談您對控股公司希望保留多少流動性的看法？

Yeah, thanks, Doug, for the question. So I think as I walked through in my prepared remarks, we continue to have really strong liquidity in our holding company. I think we ended the quarter at $784 million, which is lower than the first quarter number.

是的，謝謝道格提出這個問題。因此，我認為，正如我在準備好的發言中所說的那樣，我們的控股公司仍然擁有非常強勁的流動性。我認為本季的銷售額為 7.84 億美元，低於第一季的數字。

But again, as I mentioned, we've used some of that liquidity towards opportunistic share repurchases. We were able to buy back our shares at really good prices that were extremely accretive to our book value.

但正如我所提到的，我們已經利用部分流動性進行機會性股票回購。我們能夠以非常好的價格回購我們的股票，這對我們的帳面價值有很大的增值作用。

And so we went ahead and did that. As you can see, we are bringing down our liquidity a little bit in the holding company. If you go back two years, we had higher liquidity numbers in our holding company of about $1 billion and more.

所以我們繼續這樣做了。正如您所看到的，我們正在稍微降低控股公司的流動性。如果回顧兩年前，我們控股公司的流動性數字更高，約 10 億美元甚至更多。

Last year, we repaid some of our outstanding debt, brought down our leverage to less than 20%. So we are being, I would say, very, very careful and yet, I would say, planned in terms of how we are thinking about our overall liquidity in the holding company.

去年，我們償還了部分未償債務，將槓桿率降至20%以下。因此，我想說，我們在考慮控股公司的整體流動性方面非常非常謹慎，但我想說，我們也在計劃中。

And we will continue to take judicious decisions with regard to capital allocation and how much liquidity we will keep in the holding company. We've not put out any forward statements in terms of what is that exact balance. But I think we would be comfortable saying that right now, our liquidity is quite in excess of what we may think is the appropriate buffer at the holding company.

我們將繼續就資本配置以及在控股公司保留多少流動性做出明智的決定。我們尚未就確切的平衡發表任何前瞻性聲明。但我認為我們可以放心地說，目前我們的流動性已經遠遠超過了我們認為的控股公司的適當緩衝水準。

And I might just add, Sumita, too, just as we mentioned last quarter, this year, we expect to bring up $795 million from Radian Guaranty, of which this year, so far, we brought up $400 million.

我還要補充一點，Sumita，正如我們上個季度提到的那樣，今年我們預計將從 Radian Guaranty 獲得 7.95 億美元的資金，其中今年到目前為止我們已經獲得了 4 億美元。

So we have good visibility to cash flow from Radian Guaranty kind of now into the future. And so that's a really strong position to be in, but I just want to make sure we add that.

因此，我們現在和將來對 Radian Guaranty 的現金流都有很好的了解。所以這是一個非常強大的地位，但我只是想確保我們能夠添加這一點。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Oh, go ahead.

噢，繼續吧。

Just how should we think about the sustainability of that $795 million dividend up to the holdco as we kind of move into next year?

當我們進入明年時，我們應該如何考慮控股公司 7.95 億美元股息的可持續性？

Yeah, I mean I think, again, just trying to avoid any forward guidance of what would be the exact, I would say, income levels. But as you know, the dividend from RGI is driven by the statutory net income of the prior year. So I would say whatever is our stat net income in 2025 would be an indicator of what we could pay next year in 2026. And it is a little bit mechanical. We are trying to make sure that whatever we can dividend up from RGI, we are maximizing that dividend.

是的，我的意思是，我再次認為，只是想避免對確切的收入水平做出任何前瞻性的指導。但正如您所知，RGI 的股息是由上一年的法定淨收入所驅動的。因此我想說，無論我們 2025 年的統計淨收入是多少，都可以作為我們明年（2026 年）可以支付多少錢的指標。而且它有點機械化。我們正在努力確保從 RGI 獲得的任何紅利都能最大化。

So, I would say our stat net income would be the best proxy of our dividend capacity from RGI to group.

因此，我想說我們的統計淨收入將是我們從 RGI 到集團的股息能力的最佳代表。

You're welcome. Thank you.

不客氣。謝謝。

Bose George of KBW.

KBW 的 Bose George。

Actually, you noted the marks on those loans held for sale that drove some of the decline in earnings at Home Genius or the Other segment. What was the magnitude of those -- of the marks?

實際上，您注意到那些待售貸款的標記導致了 Home Genius 或其他部門收益的部分下降。這些痕跡的嚴重程度如何？

Yeah, Bose, thank you for that question. I'll kind of walk you through a little bit just because you referenced Home Genius and kind of in general, I think it's probably worth just kind of doing a little bit of kind of an update.

是的，Bose，謝謝你提出這個問題。我會稍微向您介紹一下，因為您提到了 Home Genius，總的來說，我認為可能值得做一些更新。

So we know historically, there's some connection to All Other and maybe the segment previously known as Home Genius. But I just want to take a moment to kind of walk through all the activities of All Other, including the Conduit. So last year, we restructured the businesses that were part of Home Genius, and we don't really run it as a Home Genius segment today. They're in All Other.

因此，從歷史上看，我們知道它與 All Other 以及之前稱為 Home Genius 的部分有某種聯繫。但我只想花一點時間來介紹 All Other 的所有活動，包括 Conduit。因此，去年我們重組了 Home Genius 的業務，現在我們實際上並不將其作為 Home Genius 部門來運作。它們位於“所有其他”中。

I think it's -- also, I just want to highlight for Real Estate Tech, that part of our business that was Home Genius, we made a decision in the second quarter to discontinue kind of our investment in the technology on that business as kind of a follow-on to what we've talked about in previous quarters. I just want to highlight that. And then as you kind of flow through all other, it's got the holding company investment income. It's got the Title and Real Estate businesses, which were generally consistent with the prior quarter.

我認為——另外，我只想強調一下房地產科技，我們業務的一部分是 Home Genius，我們在第二季度決定停止對該業務技術的投資，作為我們在前幾個季度討論過的後續行動。我只是想強調這一點。然後，當你流經所有其他資產時，它就會獲得控股公司的投資收益。該公司擁有產權和房地產業務，與上一季基本一致。

And so the Conduit business, as we went through the second quarter, we actually saw the pipeline and loans held for sale grow to, I think, close to $900 million. And as Sumita highlighted in her comments, we saw the spread volatility kind of on the mark-to-market at June 30 kind of widen out specifically around interest-only kind of instruments, if you will.

因此，當我們進入第二季時，Conduit 業務實際上看到待售的管道和貸款增長到接近 9 億美元。正如 Sumita 在她的評論中所強調的那樣，我們發現 6 月 30 日以市價計算的利差波動有所擴大，特別是在僅付利息類型的工具方面。

And the impact combined with kind of higher expenses with the higher volume was about $9 million in the quarter. The position is hedged, valuations are going to fluctuate from time to time. And so as we go through a quarter end, we make those adjustments. But I would say net-net, that's the amount, the $9 million.

而這種影響加上更高的費用和更高的銷量，本季的損失約為 900 萬美元。該頭寸已對沖，估值將不時波動。因此，當我們進入季度末時，我們會做出這些調整。但我想說的是淨額，就是這個金額，900 萬美元。

Okay. That's helpful. And then just sticking to Home Genius, is there a way to think about or how you guys think about just the time line to getting that to breakeven, especially if we were in a higher for longer, which presumably makes a little tougher on the Title side? And are there any strategic actions that you could take to accelerate? What's going on there?

好的。這很有幫助。然後繼續說 Home Genius，有沒有辦法考慮或你們如何考慮實現收支平衡的時間表，特別是如果我們處於更高的水平更長時間，這可能會對 Title 方面造成一些困難？您可以採取什麼策略行動來加速這一進程？那裡發生什麼事了？

Yeah, , I appreciate the question. So I would -- the way I would comment on that without providing kind of forward guidance is that actually, our Title business quarter-over-quarter, I think you'll see in the revenue breakout was up. I think it's up year-over-year. So we're actually through the combination of additional clients and penetration of existing clients, seeing some growth.

是的，我很感謝你提出這個問題。因此，我會——在不提供前瞻性指引的情況下，我對此發表評論的方式是，實際上，我們的 Title 業務季度環比增長，我想你會看到收入突破有所上升。我認為它逐年上升。因此，我們實際上是透過增加客戶和滲透現有客戶來實現一些成長。

The numbers are small. Real Estate services has actually been more impacted by higher rates for longer just because of some of the pullback on SFR financings. So I would say the combination of those two businesses have been fairly consistent and not really necessarily impacting the financial outcome of All Other.

數字很小。由於部分 SFR 融資的回落，房地產服務實際上在較長時間內受到高利率的影響。所以我想說，這兩家公司的合併相當一致，不一定會影響 All Other 的財務表現。

The volatility has come through our Conduit business. And then I think also in the quarter, we had an accounting adjustment between mortgage and group of about $4 million that when you look at it year-to- date, it's kind of a $0 impact, but it was a reclass of about $4 million.

這種波動來自於我們的管道業務。然後我認為在本季度，我們對抵押貸款和集團之間的會計調整約為 400 萬美元，當你查看年初至今的情況時，它的影響為 0 美元，但它是一次約 400 萬美元的重新分類。

So I think really for this quarter, the noise is primarily in Conduit in that adjustment. But as it relates to what we do going forward, I would just say more to come on that. The teams are working hard and continue to kind of focus on finding avenues of growth and continuing to find ways to produce a positive contribution.

因此我認為，就本季而言，噪音主要出現在 Conduit 的調整中。但因為這與我們今後的行動有關，我只想就此多說一些。團隊正在努力工作，繼續專注於尋找成長途徑並繼續尋找做出積極貢獻的方法。

Okay, great. Thank you. Yeah, appreciate it.

好的，太好了。謝謝。是的，非常感謝。

Thank you. This concludes our question-and-answer session. I'd now like to turn it back to Rick Thornbury for closing remarks.

謝謝。我們的問答環節到此結束。現在我想請 Rick Thornbury 做最後一次發言。

Thank you again for joining us today and your questions and your interest in Radian. We appreciate it. We're pleased to report another strong quarter for Radian marked by, I think, very strong results and continued positive credit trends. We look forward to connecting with many of you in the months ahead and sharing our progress on the next quarter. Thank you.

再次感謝您今天加入我們並提出問題以及對 Radian 的興趣。我們對此表示感謝。我們很高興地報告 Radian 又一個強勁的季度，我認為其特點是業績非常強勁，信貸趨勢持續向好。我們期待在未來幾個月與你們中的許多人建立聯繫並分享我們下一季的進展。謝謝。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating and you may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接。