普拉格能源 (PLUG) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Plug Power Q4 and year-end 2025 earnings conference call and webcast. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 Plug Power 2025 年第四季及全年業績電話會議和網路直播。（操作說明）提醒各位，本次會議正在錄音。

It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to Teal Hoyos, Vice President, Marketing and Communications. Please go ahead, Teal.

現在我很高興將電話交給行銷和傳播副總裁 Teal Hoyos。請繼續，蒂爾。

Thank you. Welcome to the 2025 fourth-quarter earnings call. This call will include forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements contain projections of our future results of operations, of our financial position, or other forward-looking information. We intend these forward-looking statements to be covered by the Safe Harbor provisions for forward-looking statements contained in Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

謝謝。歡迎參加2025年第四季財報電話會議。本次電話會議將包含前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述包含我們未來營運績效、財務狀況或其他前瞻性資訊的預測。我們希望這些前瞻性聲明能夠受到 1933 年證券法第 27A 條和 1934 年證券交易法第 21E 條中關於前瞻性陳述的安全港條款的保護。

We believe that it is important to communicate our future expectations to investors. However, investors are cautioned not to unduly rely on forward-looking statements, and such statements should not be read or understood as a guarantee of future performance or results. Such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results, or performance, to differ materially from those discussed as a result of various factors, including, but not limited to, risks and uncertainties discussed under Item 1A Risk Factors in our annual report, on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ending December 31, 2024, for quarterly reports on Form 10-Q for the quarters ended March 31, 2025, June 30, 2025, and September 31, 2025, as well as other reports we file from time to time with the SEC.

我們認為，向投資者傳達我們對未來的預期非常重要。然而，投資者應注意不要過度依賴前瞻性陳述，此類陳述不應被解讀或理解為對未來績效或結果的保證。此類聲明受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果或業績與所討論的結果或業績存在重大差異，原因包括但不限於：截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的財政年度的 10-K 表格年度報告中「第 1A 項風險因素」部分討論的風險和不確定性；截至 2025 年 3 月 2025 月和不確定性； 9 月 31 日的季度的 10-Q 表格季度報告中「第 1A 項風險因素」部分討論的風險和不確定性；以及我們不時向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他報告中討論的風險和不確定性。

These forward-looking statements speak only as of the day in which the statements are made, and we do not undertake or intend to update any forward-looking statements after this call, or as a result of new information.

這些前瞻性聲明僅代表聲明發布之日的觀點，我們不承諾或打算在本次電話會議之後或由於新資訊而更新任何前瞻性聲明。

At this point, I would like to turn the call over to Plug Power's new CEO, Jose Luis Crespo.

此時，我想把電話交給 Plug Power 的新任執行長 Jose Luis Crespo。

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us. As many of you know, today is my first earnings call as CEO. I would like to begin by acknowledging the foundation I am inheriting. Andy led this company for almost 20 years with vision and determination, building Plug into a global leader in the green hydrogen ecosystem. That is a platform a few CEOs are fortunate to inherit, and I am grateful for it.

各位下午好，感謝各位的參與。正如你們許多人所知，今天是我作為執行長的第一次財報電話會議。首先，我想對所繼承的基礎表示感謝。安迪以遠見卓識和堅定決心領導這家公司近 20 年，將 Plug 打造成綠色氫能生態系統的全球領導者。這是少數CEO有幸繼承的平台，我對此心存感激。

My mandate is clear. I will work to convert this leadership position into sustained profitable growth. I have been part of building this company, setting, and executing on its strategy. I deeply understand both the opportunity in front of us and the discipline required to realize it.

我的使命很明確。我將努力把這一領導地位轉化為持續的獲利成長。我參與了這家公司的創建、策略制定和執行。我深刻地理解我們面前的機會以及實現機會所需的自律精神。

We entered 2025 focus on these objectives: grow the top line, improved margins, targeting margin neutral in Q4, reduced cash usage, expand hydrogen production, including commissioning the Louisiana plant, all while strengthening liquidity. We deliver against those objectives. In 2025, we achieved approximately 30% revenue growth while turning gross positive margin in the fourth quarter. Gross margin improved by 125 points, from negative 122.5% in Q4 2024 to positive 2.4% in Q4 2025. A 125-percentage-point improvement in gross margin is a meaningful milestone in strengthening our operating performance.

進入 2025 年，我們專注於以下目標：提高營收、改善利潤率、力爭在第四季度實現利潤率中立、減少現金使用、擴大氫氣生產（包括路易斯安那州工廠的投產），同時增強流動性。我們實現了這些目標。2025年，我們實現了約30%的營收成長，並在第四季實現了毛利率轉正。毛利率提高了 125 個百分點，從 2024 年第四季的 -122.5% 提高到 2025 年第四季的正 2.4%。毛利率提高 125 個百分點，是提升我們經營績效的一個重要里程碑。

The results we delivered were not accidental. They reflect ambition there with discipline, focused execution, and the hard work of the entire Plug team. 2025 was a defining year for Plug. In a highly uncertain macroeconomic environment, we grew revenue at double-digit rates and achieved positive margin, a combination has been challenging for many companies in our sector. We believe this represents an inflection point.

我們所取得的成果並非偶然。他們展現出的雄心壯志、嚴謹的紀律、專注的執行力以及整個Plug團隊的辛勤付出，都體現在了他們的努力之中。 2025年是Plug發展歷程中具有里程碑意義的一年。在宏觀經濟環境高度不確定的情況下，我們的收入實現了兩位數的成長，並實現了正利潤率，這對我們行業的許多公司來說都是一個挑戰。我們認為這代表著一個轉捩點。

Now that said, we are not done. We still have work to do to achieve sustained profitability while maintaining growth. My responsibility now is to build on this momentum and continue progressing toward profitability.

話雖如此，我們的工作還沒結束。我們仍需努力才能在保持成長的同時實現持續獲利。我現在的職責是保持這種勢頭，繼續朝著獲利目標邁進。

In 2026, our focus remains on advancing toward profitable growth. We currently expect revenue growth in 2026 to be directionally comparable to 2025, driven primarily by our material handling and electrolyzer business.

2026年，我們的重點仍然是實現獲利成長。我們目前預期 2026 年的營收成長方向與 2025 年大致相當，主要由我們的物料搬運和電解槽業務推動。

In material handling, favorable conditions have emerged. The reinstatement of the investment tax credit in January, combined with increased demand from pedestal customers such as Amazon and Walmart position us for renewed growth in this segment. We are seeing new developments and free refresh programs at key customer sites, while activity increased across both new and repeat customers.

物料搬運方面已經出現了有利條件。1 月投資稅收抵免政策的恢復，加上亞馬遜和沃爾瑪等大型客戶需求的增加，使我們在該領域有望實現新的成長。我們看到主要客戶現場出現了新的發展和免費更新計劃，同時新舊客戶的活躍度都有所提高。

Our electrolyzers business continues to develop and expand globally. Today, the company has shipped over 300 megawatts of our Genco electrolyzers globally and are now deployed on six continents, demonstrating significant operating experience across multiple markets. In 2025, we delivered equipment for major projects, including a 25-megawatt project with Iberdrola (inaudible) in Spain and a 100-megawatt project with Galp in Portugal, resulting in a record $188 million in electrolyzers revenue.

我們的電解槽業務在全球範圍內持續發展壯大。目前，該公司已在全球交付超過 300 兆瓦的 Genco 電解槽，並已部署在六大洲，這證明了該公司在多個市場擁有豐富的營運經驗。2025 年，我們為多個重大項目交付了設備，其中包括與西班牙 Iberdrola 合作的 25 兆瓦項目和與葡萄牙 Galp 合作的 100 兆瓦項目，從而實現了創紀錄的 1.88 億美元電解槽收入。

Europe's regulatory mandates and funded incentive programs provide structural support for hydrogen adoption. We see significant opportunity in refinery decarbonization and in the production of e-methane, e-methanol, synthetic jet fuel, and ammonia. We estimate that meeting European mandates just for transportation could require 4 to 6 gigawatts of electrolyzer capacity by 2030, and we intend to compete for a meaningful portion of that opportunity.

歐洲的監管規定和資金激勵計畫為氫能的普及提供了結構性支持。我們看到煉油廠脫碳以及電子甲烷、電子甲醇、合成航空燃料和氨的生產方面存在著巨大的機會。我們估計，到 2030 年，僅滿足歐洲交通運輸方面的要求就可能需要 4 至 6 吉瓦的電解槽產能，我們打算爭取其中相當一部分機會。

We remain focused on converting as much as possible of our approximately $8 billion electrolyzer funnel into revenue-generating projects that will support Plug's long-term growth. In 2026, we expect to begin executing projects with (inaudible) and Schroders in the UK, and we will continue progressing with (inaudible) ammonia towards FID on the 3 gigawatt project in Australia, and the 2 gigawatt project in Uzbekistan.

我們將繼續專注於將我們約 80 億美元的電解槽項目盡可能轉化為能夠產生收入的項目，以支持 Plug 的長期成長。2026 年，我們預計將開始與（聽不清楚）和英國的施羅德集團合作執行項目，並將繼續推進（聽不清楚）氨氣項目，爭取在澳洲的 3 吉瓦項目和在烏茲別克斯坦的 2 吉瓦項目上做出最終投資決定。

As an example of the activity in the market, over the last two months, we executed 750 megawatts of new basic engineering design packages agreements. In 2026, we expect to see full-year benefit of the Quantum Leap initiatives launched in 2025. These improvements are expected to be further supported by continued cost reductions and optimization efforts across the business.

例如，在過去的兩個月裡，我們簽署了 750 兆瓦的新基礎工程設計套件協議，以此說明市場活躍度。我們預計在 2026 年，2025 年啟動的「量子飛躍」計畫將帶來全年效益。預計這些改進將得到公司持續成本削減和優化工作的進一步支持。

Together with revenue growth, these actions position us to achieve positive EBITDA in the fourth quarter of 2026, consistent with our previously stated targets. We also intend to continue reducing cash usage in 2026. We ended 2025 with $368.5 million in unrestricted cash. We currently expect continued improvement in cash usage similar to the reduction achieved in 2025. With ongoing cash flow improvements and the planned $275 million proceeds from the monetization of assets and associated rights announced in Q4 2025, which we expect to close in the first half of 2026, we believe we are well-positioned to support our operation plans through 2026.

加上營收成長，這些措施將使我們能夠在 2026 年第四季實現正 EBITDA，與我們先前設定的目標一致。我們也計劃在 2026 年繼續減少現金使用。截至 2025 年底，我們擁有 3.685 億美元的非限制性現金。我們目前預計現金使用量將持續改善，與 2025 年實現的減少幅度類似。隨著現金流的持續改善，以及計劃於 2025 年第四季度宣布的資產及相關權利貨幣化所得的 2.75 億美元收益（預計將於 2026 年上半年完成），我們相信我們有能力支持我們的營運計劃直至 2026 年。

In conclusion, we continue our journey towards profitability. 2025 was about margin progression, optimizing the platform we have built, enforcing cost discipline, strengthening infrastructure control, improving liquidity, and sharpening our strategic focus. 2026 will be about continued sales growth and advancing the financial milestones outlined in our road map, including our target of achieving positive EBITDA in Q4 2026, a milestone within our road map towards positive operating income in 2027, and full profitability in 2028.

總之，我們正繼續朝著獲利目標邁進。 2025年的重點在於提升利潤率、優化已建成的平台、加強成本控制、強化基礎設施管控、改善流動性、明確策略方向。 2026年的重點是持續成長的銷售額，並推進路線圖中製定的各項財務里程碑，包括力爭在2026年第四季實現正EBITDA，這是我們2027年實現正營業收入以及2028年實現全面盈利路線圖中的一個重要里程碑。

With that, I will now turn the call over to Paul for a detailed review of the fourth-quarter and full-year financial results. Paul?

接下來，我將把電話交給保羅，讓他詳細回顧第四季和全年的財務表現。保羅？

Thanks a lot, Jose Luis. Let me first expand on the margin results. The significant improvement, we achieved stems from a culmination of efforts over the last two years to optimize and scale the investments we have made. We've made a conscious effort to really focus on margin and cash flow improvement and this includes multiple actions undertaken within Project Quantum Leap and our overall product cost down road maps.

非常感謝，何塞路易斯。首先讓我詳細說明一下利潤率的結果。我們所取得的顯著進步源自於過去兩年為優化和擴大投資規模所做的努力。我們已刻意努力，真正專注於提高利潤率和現金流，這包括在「量子飛躍計畫」中採取的多項措施以及我們整體產品成本下降路線圖。

More specifically, in Q4, the results benefited from significant improvements in the unit service costs, achieving rates almost half of what they were over a little over a year ago, ramping our hydrogen platform through our three facilities, including Louisiana that was turned on and scaled up this year. Scaling sales volumes increased sales provides tremendous incremental overhead leverage, and continued discipline and scrutiny over discretionary spending. Equally important to these Q4 results is the fact that we see this progress as a platform to continue driving towards our 2026 financial targets.

更具體地說，第四季度業績受益於單位服務成本的顯著改善，費率幾乎是去年同期的一半，這得益於我們三個工廠（包括今年投產並擴大規模的路易斯安那工廠）的氫氣平台的快速發展。擴大銷售規模可以增加銷售額，從而帶來巨大的額外營運成本槓桿效應，同時對可自由支配的支出保持持續的紀律和審查。與第四季業績同樣重要的是，我們認為這項進展為我們繼續朝著 2026 年財務目標邁進奠定了基礎。

Regarding cash usage, we saw improvements throughout the year, and these actions were associated with Project Quantum Leap and included targeted price increases, labor optimization, rooftop consolidations, improvements in production costs and leveraging our hydrogen platform, and clear focus on reducing our OpEx resource investment. We expect 2026 to include a full year of benefits from these activities undertaken last year.

在現金使用方面，我們全年都看到了改善，這些措施與「量子飛躍」項目有關，包括有針對性的價格上漲、勞動力優化、屋頂整合、生產成本改善和利用我們的氫能平台，以及明確專注於減少我們的營運支出資源投資。我們預計 2026 年將全面感受到去年所進行的這些活動所帶來的益處。

In addition, we see significant upside to continue this optimization effort to drive even more leverage as we grow sales. We anticipate continued improvement, incremental leverage from growth in equipment sales given our capacity, continued improvements in our service cost profile, additional improvements in fuel efficiency and network leverage, and continued scrutiny over OpEx of resources.

此外，我們認為繼續推動這項優化工作具有巨大的提升空間，隨著銷售額的成長，我們將能夠獲得更大的槓桿效應。我們預計，隨著我們產能的提升，設備銷售成長將帶來持續的改善，服務成本結構將持續改善，燃油效率和網路利用率將進一步提高，同時我們將持續關注資源的營運支出。

We continue to be laser-focused on driving growth in margins and cash flows in near term in achieving our Q4 goal of positive evidence. Despite the progress we made as conveyed in our filing, we determined it was prudent for Plug to record a net $763 million in various charges associated predominantly with noncash charges asset impairments and the capital transactions we undertook in Q4. The impairment charges stem from multiple factors, including overall market conditions, resulting in slower growth and anticipated for certain products.

我們將繼續全力以赴，在短期內推動利潤率和現金流的成長，以實現第四季度取得積極成果的目標。儘管我們在文件中闡述了我們所取得的進展，但我們認為，Plug 謹慎的做法是記錄 7.63 億美元的各種淨費用，這些費用主要與非現金費用、資產減損以及我們在第四季度進行的資本交易有關。減損費用源自於多種因素，包括整體市場狀況導致某些產品成長放緩，而這種情況是可以預期的。

In terms of impairments, this relates to property, plant and equipment, intangible assets, and assets associated with power purchase agreements and fuel. As a result of these impairments, it will reduce our future amortization depreciation '26 and onward.

就減損而言，這涉及物業、廠房和設備、無形資產以及與購電協議和燃料相關的資產。由於這些減值，我們將減少 2026 年及以後的未來攤提折舊。

In terms of liquidity, as Jose mentioned, we ended with over $368 million in unrestricted cash. We recently executed the first of three transactions associated with monetizing the $275 million for the data center project sales. We have an effectively unleveraged balance sheet, given our debt restructuring we undertook, which also lowered our cost of capital and extended the maturity.

就流動性而言，正如何塞所提到的，我們最終擁有超過 3.68 億美元的非限制性現金。我們最近完成了與資料中心專案銷售所得 2.75 億美元貨幣化相關的三筆交易中的第一筆。由於我們進行了債務重組，降低了資本成本並延長了債務期限，因此我們的資產負債表實際上沒有槓桿。

We have also significantly curtailed our CapEx expenses, and we believe we have the platform we need to deliver our financial goals, so we anticipate even lower CapEx rates in 2026. These factors, coupled with the focus on improvement in margin cash flows, put us in a strong position to achieve our near-term and midterm financial goals and fund our operating plan for '26.

我們也大幅削減了資本支出，我們相信我們擁有實現財務目標所需的平台，因此我們預計 2026 年資本支出率將進一步降低。這些因素，再加上對改善利潤現金流的重視，使我們處於有利地位，能夠實現近期和中期財務目標，並為 2026 年的營運計畫提供資金。

GAAP EPS for Q4 '25 was $0.63 negative, compared to GAAP EPS of negative $1.48 for Q4 '24. But if we exclude the unusual charges in each period, adjusted EPS for Q4 '25 was negative $0.06, versus adjusted EPS for Q4 '24 of negative $0.29. And the progression is just another illustration of how operationally the company is making progress holistically in growing overall sales and margin profiles.

2025 年第四季 GAAP 每股盈餘為負 0.63 美元，而 2024 年第四季 GAAP 每股盈餘為負 1.48 美元。但如果剔除各期間的非經常性費用，2025年第四季的調整後每股收益為-0.06美元，而2024年第四季的調整後每股收益為-0.29美元。這項進展再次表明，公司在營運方面正全面提升整體銷售額和利潤率。

I'll now turn the call back over to Jose Luis.

現在我將把電話轉回給何塞路易斯。

Thank you, Paul. We will now open the call for questions.

謝謝你，保羅。現在開始接受提問。

(Operator Instructions) Colin Rusch, Oppenheimer.

（操作說明）Colin Rusch，奧本海默。

Guys, congratulations on the progress here. So as you look at 2026 from a revenue growth perspective, can you just give us a bit more color around which drivers are actually moving the needle from a growth perspective? It looks like you're talking about low double-digit growth overall. I'm just curious if there's one part of the product business that's actually making an outsized impact on that growth?

各位，恭喜你們取得的進展。那麼，從營收成長的角度來看 2026 年，您能否更詳細地介紹哪些因素真正推動了成長？看起來你指的是整體上兩位數的低成長率。我只是好奇，產品業務中是否有某個環節對這種成長產生了格外巨大的影響？

Hi, Colin. How are you? So for 2026, as I mentioned, we are projecting similar growth as we saw in 2025. And the main drivers for that growth are going to be material handling.

你好，科林。你好嗎？因此，正如我之前提到的，我們預計 2026 年的成長將與 2025 年的成長類似。而推動這成長的主要動力將是物料搬運。

What we're seeing in material handling is our pedestal customers are going back to growth. We are also seeing refreshes. Some of the sites that we have with some of the pedestal customers are sites that have been running between five and six, seven years, time to refresh. So we see an uptick on that.

我們在物料搬運領域看到的是，我們的底座客戶正在恢復成長。我們也看到了刷新現象。我們與一些基座客戶合作的一些網站已經運行了五到六年、七年，是時候更新了。所以我們看到這種情況有所好轉。

We also see new customers. As you know, we signed Floor & Decor last year, but we see other customers coming online in 2026. And also, the value proposition is just getting stronger when -- and I think we mentioned this during the symposium, our customers are beginning to see also that the material handling fuel cell solution allows them to reduce their utility demand on their sites, which is really valuable for customers in days where we all know that utility and electricity availability is becoming more challenging.

我們也迎來了新客戶。如您所知，我們去年與 Floor & Decor 簽訂了合同，但我們預計 2026 年還會有其他客戶上線。而且，隨著——我想我們在研討會上也提到過——我們的客戶開始意識到，物料搬運燃料電池解決方案能夠幫助他們減少現場的公用設施需求，這在如今公用設施和電力供應日益緊張的情況下，對客戶來說真的很有價值，這也就更凸顯了其價值主張。

But that's not the only area that we're going to see growth. As I mentioned, in the electrolyzer business, we also see growth and opportunities. We just signed, at the end of 2025, we announced that the agreement with Carlton Power for 55 megawatts. And we are looking at, in the next couple of months or so, signing a similar agreement from another project in Australia.

但這並非我們唯一會看到成長的領域。正如我之前提到的，在電解槽產業，我們也看到了成長和機會。我們剛剛宣布，將於 2025 年底與 Carlton Power 簽署 55 兆瓦的協議。我們計劃在接下來的幾個月內，與澳洲的另一個項目簽署類似的協議。

We have -- a lot of the projects that we have in the funnel are beginning to move further into FID. So we are expecting to see also growth in the electrolyzer business. So those are going to be two main drivers for growth in 2026.

我們有—我們目前處於流程中的許多專案都開始進入最終投資決策階段。因此，我們預期電解槽業務也將成長。因此，這將成為2026年成長的兩大主要驅動力。

Excellent. And guys, when you look at the fuel margins and the cost of that fuel, I know you're getting better at optimizing some of the production costs, and timing around that. But I'm curious about how quickly you can start driving some of those margins closer to breakeven on the fuel side?

出色的。各位，看看燃料利潤和燃料成本，我知道你們在優化一些生產成本和相關時間安排方面做得越來越好。但我很好奇，在燃料成本方面，你們能多快讓一些利潤率接近損益平衡點？

Yeah. Thanks, Colin. I think just to clarify, if we kind of look back and we think about some of the things we've done, I mean, obviously, turning on these three plants and vertically integrate and puts us in a great position and we've seen that in the benefits in our results. We see that continuing to trend upwards. We've been on this maturity curve of optimizing those facilities. We hit all-time records in the Georgia plant for many of the months in 2025. And we've seen a progression in the utilization and efficiency of the newer plant in Louisiana, as we've turned that on this year and scaled that up.

是的。謝謝你，科林。我想澄清一下，如果我們回顧一下我們所做的一些事情，很明顯，啟動這三家工廠並進行垂直整合，使我們處於非常有利的地位，我們已經從業績中看到了好處。我們看到這一趨勢仍在持續上升。我們一直在不斷完善這些設施，使其達到成熟階段。2025 年的許多月份，我們喬治亞州工廠的產量都創下了歷史新高。我們看到，隨著今年路易斯安那州新工廠的投產和規模擴大，該工廠的利用率和效率都得到了提升。

So one thing we expect for 2026 is obviously better leverage on those facilities now that we can take those learnings and run those plants even more efficiently.

因此，我們預計 2026 年將會更好地利用這些設施，因為我們現在可以吸取這些經驗教訓，更有效率地運作這些工廠。

Second thing is, obviously, we're adding, as Jose mentioned, more sites, more material handling customers. And a lot of that we're going to feed through those plants and so you get greater volume leverage, which is important. We've shown progression in our logistics network and how we can drive greater efficiency through that.

第二點，很顯然，正如 Jose 所提到的，我們正在增加更多的站點和更多的物料搬運客戶。很多產品我們將透過這些工廠進行加工，這樣就能獲得更大的產量優勢，這點非常重要。我們已經展示了我們在物流網絡方面的進步，以及如何透過這種方式提高效率。

And then the last one of the other challenges we've been focused on and really made tremendous progress is the efficiencies at the sites in terms of how the systems offer, the recapture the gas, how do you make sure that you minimize any losses of the molecule through the system?

最後，我們一直關注並取得了巨大進展的另一個挑戰是提高現場效率，即係統如何提供、回收氣體，如何確保最大限度地減少分子在系統中的任何損失？

So the combination of those things, coupled with the new agreement we signed with the third-party gas company last year that's reduced prices, but also put us on a platform of working with them to optimize the network with which sites were sourced from which plants. All of those factors are what's been driving the improvement and we're going to see additional improvement this year. So I think we're going to directionally be moving there as we progress through the year.

因此，這些因素結合起來，再加上我們去年與第三方天然氣公司簽署的新協議，該協議降低了價格，但也使我們有機會與他們合作，優化網絡，確定哪些站點從哪些工廠獲取天然氣。所有這些因素都推動了進步，我們預計今年將看到進一步的進步。所以我認為，隨著時間的推移，我們的方向會朝著那個方向發展。

And part of it will be tied to -- the (inaudible) timing of turning on some of these volumes and additional leverage out of those facilities as the year progresses. But we expect that we're -- we have been, and we expect that we're going to continue to move in the right direction in that regard for the course of the year.

部分原因將與（聽不清楚）何時開啟這些音量以及隨著這一年的推進從這些設施中獲得的額外收益有關。但我們預計，我們過去一直如此，將來也將繼續朝著正確的方向前進。

Excellent. Thanks so much, guys.

出色的。非常感謝各位。

Craig Irwin, Roth Capital Partners.

Craig Irwin，Roth Capital Partners。

Hi, good evening. Thanks for taking my questions. So first one I wanted to ask about is just an update on the cash needs this year. So you guys did a great job last year, $368 million in restricted -- in unrestricted cash exiting the year. You got your cash burn down dramatically year over year. You've put in place the $275 million in asset sales. You're obviously continuing to execute on the restricted cash for your PPAs, your historical PPAs as those roll off. And I guess as you make new sales, which is good. But can you maybe help us understand the tempo of cash needs across this year now that we don't have some of these big construction projects, and that you've taken all these other steps to put in place, the actions to get to positive EBITDA?

您好，晚上好。謝謝您回答我的問題。首先我想問的是今年的現金需求狀況。所以你們去年做得非常出色，年底時有 3.68 億美元的受限現金——也就是非受限現金。你的現金消耗量逐年大幅下降。你們已經落實了2.75億美元的資產出售計畫。顯然，你們仍在繼續使用受限現金來支付購電協議 (PPA) 和歷史購電協議 (PPA) 的到期款項。我想，隨著新銷售額的成長，這當然是好事。但現在我們沒有了一些大型建設項目，而且您已經採取了所有其他措施來實現正 EBITDA，您能否幫助我們了解今年的現金需求節奏？

Thank you for the question, Craig. Paul, do you want to cover that?

謝謝你的提問，克雷格。保羅，你想負責這個嗎？

Yeah. Thanks, Craig. A couple of things. One, if you look at the progression in the last couple of years, just the improvements in margin and just overall profitability and how that's been playing, as well as our leverage of our working capital, you've seen the reduction in operating cash flows and cash burn in general. You've also seen a big reduction in the CapEx.

是的。謝謝你，克雷格。有幾件事。第一，如果你看看過去幾年的發展情況，就會發現利潤率和整體盈利能力都有所提高，而且我們對營運資本的利用也得到了改善，你會發現經營現金流和現金消耗總體上都有所減少。你也看到了資本支出的大幅減少。

I mean, I think if you look at the Q4 rates, one of the lowest CapEx rates we've had in a long time. So it postures us really well because we expect certainly, as we talk about our financial targets this year and getting to EBITDA breakeven to positive in Q4, we expect a similar reduction in the cash burn that we've experienced the last couple of years.

我的意思是，如果你看一下第四季的利率，你會發現這是我們很長一段時間以來最低的資本支出利率之一。因此，這讓我們處於非常有利的地位，因為我們預計，正如我們今年談到財務目標以及在第四季度實現 EBITDA 收支平衡轉為盈利時，我們預計現金消耗量將像過去幾年一樣大幅下降。

And so if you just look at that mathematically, coupled with a very nominal CapEx rate, it mathematically puts you in a position where the opening cash position we have is almost enough to cover it all, but obviously, the $275 million puts us in a great position to fund the year. So we sit today, and our working plan is that we've got more adequate existing capital and access to that capital that's coming in through those projects to fund this year without needing incremental capital. I do have optionality.

因此，如果僅從數學角度來看，再加上非常低的資本支出率，從數學上講，我們目前的現金狀況幾乎足以支付所有費用，但顯然，2.75 億美元使我們處於非常有利的地位，可以為這一年提供資金。所以我們今天坐在這裡，我們的工作計劃是，我們擁有更充足的現有資金，並且可以透過這些項目獲得資金，為今年提供資金，而無需額外的資金。我確實有選擇權。

I have an unleveraged balance sheet. So it's not my preference to go out and get debt. But obviously, and now that we've restructured the debt, I've got an incredibly low cost of capital structure in place right now, that 7% range. And so I'm in a good spot overall, in terms of lots of other factors.

我的資產負債表沒有槓桿。所以，我並不想背負債務。但很顯然，現在我們已經重組了債務，我目前的資本成本結構非常低，在 7% 左右。所以從其他很多方面來看，我的整體情況都不錯。

There's other positive things that are happening like we've gotten past through some of the acquisitions and the earnouts, and we've got some of those things behind us. We've really tempered the JV investments. A lot of things have just been very -- put us in a good position where just the overall cash needs have dropped substantially.

還有其他一些積極的事情正在發生，例如我們已經完成了一些收購和獲利支付，我們已經把這些事情拋在腦後了。我們已經大幅減少了合資企業的投資。很多事情都非常順利——使我們處於一個有利的位置，整體現金需求大幅下降。

So I guess in conclusion -- and if you look at seasonality of the sales, with the one-third, two-thirds, you can expect probably a little bit heavier burn in the first half. And as the volume grows in the second half when we convert those into collections, and leverage even more inventory, it will even be better in the second half.

所以我想總結一下——如果你看看銷售的季節性，考慮到三分之一、三分之二的時間，你可以預期上半年的銷售情況可能會稍微糟糕一些。隨著下半年銷售成長，我們將這些銷售量轉化為系列產品，並利用更多庫存，下半年的銷售量將會更好。

And as we sit today, given the working capital position, for me, EBITDA as kind of a proxy of cash flows. So you could almost I think there's a decent chance we might even get to breakeven to positive cash flows in the Q4, not just the EBITDAs KPI as well. So I think, hopefully, that helps, Craig.

就目前而言，考慮到營運資金狀況，對我來說，EBITDA 可以作為現金流的替代指標。所以我覺得我們很有可能在第四季實現收支平衡，甚至實現正現金流，而不僅僅是 EBITDA 指標。所以，我希望這能幫到你，克雷格。

Fantastic. That's very helpful. So along the -- a similar theme, your new project, new sales commitments that you're making today obviously made with a different discipline than you had in the market a few years ago with the pricing changes and The complete focus on profitability now at Plug. Can you maybe just give us a little bit more color on the 750 megawatts and new engineering design package agreements you signed the quarter? Are customers paying for these engineering packages up front now? What do we see as a potential timeline for some of these fresh new orders to come through and potentially materializes bookings and then revenue? How do we look at these opportunities and is this mostly a new set of customers or is this got significant overlap with the existing customer base?

極好的。那很有幫助。所以，沿著類似的主題，你今天做出的新項目和新的銷售承諾，顯然與幾年前你在市場上採取的定價策略和對盈利能力的全面關注有所不同。您能否詳細介紹一下您在本季簽署的750兆瓦和新的工程設計方案協議？現在客戶是否需要預先支付這些工程服務包的費用？我們認為這些新訂單可能需要多長時間才能最終轉化為實際訂單和收入？我們該如何看待這些機會？這主要是新的客戶群，還是與現有客戶群有很大的重疊？

Craig, Thank you. Just going to clarify is, focused on profitability through growth. So growth is a very important part of our strategy. And yes, the 750 megawatts of BEDPs that we have signed and started working in the last few months are all new projects. Some projects are in North America, a couple of them are in North America. We also have projects in Europe.

克雷格，謝謝你。我再澄清一下，我們專注於透過成長來實現獲利。因此，成長是我們策略中非常重要的一部分。是的，我們在過去幾個月簽署並開始實施的 750 兆瓦 BEDP 專案都是新專案。有些項目在北美，其中有幾個項目在北美。我們在歐洲也有專案。

The timeline is a little bit different for each one of them. A couple of them are, at least at the moment, the FID time line is into 2017, but there is one project that actually we are replacing, an existing -- a prior electrolyzer company that is no longer going to be doing this project, and they have picked us to do this BEDP for them, you can infer probably what the company is. And that project is already pretty advanced. And what we're doing right now is basically doing a very quick BEDP. And that project has probabilities to be FID in 2026.

每個人的時間線都略有不同。至少目前來看，其中幾個項目的最終投資決策時間線要到 2017 年，但有一個項目實際上是我們正在取代一家現有的電解槽公司，該公司不再承接這個項目，他們選擇我們來為他們做這個 BEDP 項目，你大概可以推斷出這家公司是哪家。而且那個專案已經進展得相當順利了。我們現在所做的，基本上就是進行一個非常快速的 BEDP。該項目很有可能在 2026 年做出最終投資決定。

So a little bit of a different timeline for the different projects, but all of them are in the next 12 to 24 months, in the current planning for the FIDs.

因此，不同專案的進度安排略有不同，但根據目前的最終投資決定 (FID) 計劃，所有這些專案都將在未來 12 至 24 個月內完成。

Understood. Congratulations on the progress here. Thank you.

明白了。恭喜你們的進展。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Eric Stine, Craig-Hallum.

（操作說明）埃里克·斯泰恩，克雷格-哈勒姆。

Hey, this is Luke on for Eric. Thanks for taking our question here. So first one here, just how do you expect activity on the hydrogen pipeline front in Europe to progress after last month's delivery announcement in the Netherlands? Is that -- should we expect to see further inroads there in 2026?

大家好，我是盧克，替艾瑞克報道。感謝您接受我們的提問。首先，繼上個月荷蘭宣布交付氫氣之後，您預計歐洲氫氣管道建設的活動將如何進展？那麼我們是否可以期待在 2026 年看到這方面取得進一步進展？

Hi, Luke. You mean like the deployment or the development of the actual pipeline in the European market?

嗨，盧克。你是說像在歐洲市場部署或開發實際的管道嗎？

Yes. And just potential inroads that Plug might be making there in '26 and beyond.

是的。以及 Plug 在 2026 年及以後可能取得的潛在進展。

So if I understand correctly the question, the pipeline that you're referring to is in the Netherlands, which was announced a couple of years ago that we're continuing to do the deployment in that pipeline. What Plug, and in general, the industry benefits from is that having a pipeline allows us to basically have a uptake for generation. And what we see, for example, in the Netherlands, we have several projects that we are discussing of companies that are looking to generating to put into that pipeline in particular. So it's a positive development in the industry, and it will help with projects going FID given that they can they can deliver hydrogen to that pipeline.

如果我正確理解了這個問題，你提到的管道位於荷蘭，幾年前我們宣布將繼續在該管道中部署。Plug 公司以及整個產業受益的地方在於，擁有管道可以讓我們基本上獲得發電量。例如，在荷蘭，我們看到一些公司正在討論一些項目，希望將這些項目納入這條發展軌道中。所以這對產業來說是一個積極的發展，而且由於可以向該管道輸送氫氣，這將有助於專案做出最終投資決定。

I don't know if that answers your question, Luke?

盧克，我不知道這是否回答了你的問題？

No, I think so. That's helpful. And just as a quick follow-up here. So just quickly on the data center opportunity. I mean, you pointed out last quarter as having potential for hydrogen based backup power. Obviously, framed as very early stages. Just wondering if you had any updated thoughts on potential use cases in this market?

不，我也這麼認為。那很有幫助。這裡再補充一點。那麼，簡單談談資料中心的機會。我的意思是，你在上個季度就指出了氫能備用電源的潛力。顯然，這被描述為非常早期的階段。想問您對這個市場的潛在應用場景有沒有什麼新的想法？

For the particular case of the data center opportunity, we agreed with Stream that we were going to be working on potential applications. We have been concentrating with them right now on closing the deal itself, but open discussion on what we could use fuel cells for.

就資料中心專案而言，我們與 Stream 達成一致，我們將致力於開發潛在的應用程式。我們目前正集中精力與他們敲定交易本身，但同時也公開討論燃料電池的用途。

So at this moment, we are concentrated in closing the deal. And in terms of applications, we're going to start discussing with them about what stationary applications we could launch together once the deal is closed.

所以目前，我們正集中精力完成這筆交易。至於應用程式方面，一旦交易完成，我們將開始與他們討論我們可以共同推出哪些固定應用程式。

Understood. Thank you.

明白了。謝謝。

You're welcome, Luke.

不客氣，盧克。

Jason Tilchen, Canaccord Genuity.

Jason Tilchen，Canaccord Genuity。

Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. With regard to material handling, I think in the last call, you said this is a $14 billion opportunity overall, and you've only really started to scratch the surface with this. Obviously, the price and availability of hydrogen is clearly a major gating factor. I'm curious beyond that, what are some of the other things within your control that the company can do to sort of help capture an incrementally greater share of that opportunity going forward?

午安.謝謝您回答我的問題。關於物料搬運，我想在上次電話會議上，您說過這是一個價值 140 億美元的機會，而您目前僅僅觸及了冰山一角。顯然，氫氣的價格和供應情況是一個主要的限制因素。除此之外，我還想知道，公司在你們的控制範圍內，還可以做些什麼來幫助公司在未來逐步抓住更大的機會？

Well, we're working with all of our main customers, pedestal customers like Amazon and Walmart, making sure that they can extract as much value of the technology as possible. One of the things that we are seeing, I think I mentioned that before, is that many of our companies are seeing the value of the utility advantages of using fuel cells.

我們正在與所有主要客戶，包括亞馬遜和沃爾瑪這樣的核心客戶合作，確保他們能夠最大限度地利用這項技術的價值。我們看到的其中一點，我想我之前也提到過，就是我們很多公司都看到了使用燃料電池的實用優勢的價值。

For many of our customers, they need between 1 and 2 megawatts to power batteries, if they use batteries in their distribution centers. But when you use fuel cells, you open up that capacity for other uses or actually just to be able to reduce consumption and connection to the grid. Those types of things are the type of things that little by little, we are discovering and working with customers to understand better how they can take advantage of the technology and to make sure that the business case can be expanded to as many applications within material handling as possible. And we believe that as time goes by, we will be able to unlock further markets within the material handling business.

對於我們的許多客戶來說，如果他們在配送中心使用電池，則需要 1 到 2 兆瓦的電力來為電池供電。但是，使用燃料電池後，就可以將該容量用於其他用途，或者實際上只是為了減少消耗和與電網的連接。我們正在一點一點地探索和與客戶合作，以更好地了解他們如何利用這項技術，並確保該技術的商業價值能夠擴展到物料搬運領域盡可能多的應用。我們相信，隨著時間的推移，我們將能夠在物料搬運業務領域開拓更多市場。

Great. That's very helpful. And one follow-up. In the release, you talked about launching multiple follow-on actions to continue reducing costs and improving cash flow in '26? Wondering if you could share little bit more about specifics of some of those initiatives?

偉大的。那很有幫助。還有一個後續問題。在新聞稿中，您提到將在 2026 年推出多項後續行動，以繼續降低成本並改善現金流？能否請您詳細介紹其中一些舉措的具體細節？

Do you want to go over that, Paul?

保羅，你想詳細討論一下嗎？

Yes. I think we are constantly looking at things like our bill of materials or designs. We have opportunities to look at our manufacturing processes and think about how to streamline those. We're thinking about how we -- where we deliver from a distribution standpoint, a fabrication standpoint, our network for electrolyzers as an example.

是的。我認為我們一直在關注諸如物料清單或設計之類的東西。我們有機會審視我們的生產流程，並思考如何簡化這些流程。我們正在思考我們如何——從分銷的角度，從製造的角度，以我們的電解槽網絡為例，在哪裡交付產品。

There's just -- we -- if you look at the last 10, 12 years, the things that we've done and from looking at -- working with vendors on the supply cost to structures that we have with how we manage the supply chain to our manufacturing processes, to even additional ways to optimize facilities as we continue to reduce inventory.

回顧過去 10 到 12 年，我們所做的一切，從與供應商合作降低供應成本，到我們管理供應鏈的結構，再到我們的製造流程，以及我們不斷優化設施以減少庫存，這些都是值得我們關注的。

We need less warehouses as an example. So we look at it holistically. And there's -- we just -- we believe we're still very early in the curve of opportunities over the next couple of years. So those are just some of the examples and ideas of things that we have active efforts around.

例如，我們需要減少倉庫的數量。所以我們從整體來看這個問題。而且——我們只是——我們相信，在未來幾年裡，我們仍然處於機會曲線的早期階段。以上只是我們正在積極努力的一些例子和想法。

We've had some very conscious efforts in the last two years to deliver these specific targets and improvements. And we think that it's just themes that we can continue to optimize the overall company to continue driving the margin profile.

過去兩年，我們一直有意識地努力實現這些具體目標和改進措施。我們認為，我們可以繼續優化公司整體營運，從而持續提升利潤率。

Great, thank you very much.

太好了，非常感謝。

Chris Dendrinos, RBC Capital Markets.

克里斯丹德里諾斯，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場。

Yeah, thank you. Maybe just to echo the congratulations on the positive EBIT -- positive gross margins this quarter. Following up on the last question, the press release, I think, also says that you're potentially looking at other asset monetizations that have been impaired. Can you maybe discuss what those might be potential timelines on those opportunities?

是啊，謝謝。或許只是想對本季實現正 EBIT（息稅前利潤）和正毛利率表示祝賀。關於上一個問題，我認為新聞稿還提到，你們可能正在考慮其他已減損的資產變現。您能否談談這些機會的潛在時間表？

Yeah. Well, let me say it this way. If you think -- if you go back the last couple of years, the themes that we've been talking about in some of these markets, haven't kind of developed as fast as we thought. And so from an accounting standpoint, you do -- you go through your accounting exercises and then kind of you land on the conclusions of what you can include in your forecast and so forth that may or may not create those impairments. But we still -- we have incredible portfolio of assets and opportunities that we can either look for alternative ways to monetize it, like the data center sales, or we still have opportunities in the pipeline in these different markets that can manifest. And as they start to manifest, we really believe it's a question of win.

是的。好吧，我換個說法吧。如果你回顧過去幾年，你會發現我們在某些​​市場中討論的一些主題，其發展速度並沒有我們想像的那麼快。因此，從會計的角度來看，你會進行會計核算，然後得出一些結論，決定哪些內容可以納入預測等等，這些內容可能會也可能不會造成減損。但我們仍然擁有令人難以置信的資產和機會組合，我們可以尋找其他方式將其貨幣化，例如資料中心銷售，或者我們仍然在這些不同的市場中擁有可以實現的機會。隨著這些跡象開始顯現，我們堅信這將是一場勝利。

I mean, I don't think anybody doesn't believe markets like mobility and high-power stationery, just to pick a few, aren't going to happen. It's just a question of when. And so as those things start to unfold, we still have all of these assets that we can really, truly leverage. And so it could be a combination of sales in those spaces, or it could be a combination of alternative uses that we look at. So it happens.

我的意思是，我不認為有人會懷疑行動通訊和高性能固定設備等市場（僅舉幾例）的出現。只是時間問題。因此，隨著這些事情的展開，我們仍然擁有所有這些可以真正加以利用的資產。因此，這可能是這些領域的銷售額的組合，也可能是我們考慮的其他用途的組合。事情就是這樣。

It's just one of the ways that we're really centering in with how do we think get the best value of this big asset portfolio in the short term.

這只是我們目前重點關注的如何在短期內最大程度地發揮這個龐大資產組合價值的方法之一。

Got it. And then I guess maybe as a follow-up here. You've got the $8 billion pipeline. And just trying to think through, maybe how much of this year's outlook is secured by that pipe, or maybe what's in the backlog? And just how you're thinking about, I guess, overall kind of confidence in the year, given kind of existing commitments?

知道了。然後，我想也許可以作為後續討論。你們有價值 80 億美元的管道項目。我只是想弄清楚，今年的前景有多少是由這條管道保障的，或者積壓訂單有多少？那麼，考慮到現有的各項安排，您對今年的整體信心有何看法呢？

So for the year, on the outlook that we just discussed, which it is a growth similar to what we saw in 2025, we have very high confidence of probably close to 80% of that revenue amount. And also high confidence that -- we were confident that we will be able to close the additional 20%. So entering the year with that high backlog, if you want to call it that way, it is a very good position to be able to project where we think we're going to end the year.

因此，就我們剛才討論的展望而言，今年的成長與 2025 年的成長類似，我們非常有信心能夠實現接近 80% 的收入。而且我們非常有信心——我們有信心完成額外的 20% 的交易。所以，如果說年初積壓訂單很多的話，那麼我們處於非常有利的位置，可以預測我們今年年底的表現。

Obviously, years advance as they go. But at this moment, we feel pretty confident on the projection that we just gave on similar growth as 2025.

時光荏苒，歲月如梭。但就目前而言，我們對剛剛做出的與 2025 年類似成長的預測相當有信心。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Sherif Elmaghrabi, BTIG.

謝里夫·埃爾馬格拉比，BTIG。

Hey, thanks for taking my question. When you think about a potential hydrogen plant with New York versus the liquidity opportunity that presents, any insight you could share to how you balance that cash with your hydrogen fuel demand two years down the road, five years down the road?

嘿，謝謝你回答我的問題。當您考慮在紐約建造一座潛在的氫氣工廠，以及由此帶來的流動性機會時，您能否分享一些見解，說明如何在未來兩年、五年內平衡現金流與氫燃料需求？

Hi, Sherif, thank you for the question. So we have looked very carefully at our hydrogen needs and the potential, or the probability, or the possibility to monetize the assets like we did -- that we're planning to do in New York. We mentioned this also in the prior earnings call. What we have been able to is -- we have been able to get to an agreement with one of the largest [ICs] to provide hydrogen for us at reasonable cost, much better cost than we were getting before. And that added to the current capacity that we have right now, which is about 40 tons at a nominal capacity.

你好，Sherif，謝謝你的提問。因此，我們非常仔細地研究了我們的氫能需求以及將資產貨幣化的潛力、可能性或機率，就像我們在紐約計劃所做的那樣。我們在之前的財報電話會議上也提到過這一點。我們已經與一家大型[IC]公司達成協議，以合理的價格為我們提供氫氣，比我們以前獲得的價格要好得多。再加上我們目前的產能，其名目產能約為 40 噸。

And added to the possibility that we have also -- and we are discussing with some customers that are planning to do liquefaction to take some offtake from those potential projects. We're comfortable that we have a good path for -- to cover the demand in the next few years based on our projections for growth, especially in the material handling market.

此外，我們還有可能——我們正在與一些計劃進行液化作業的客戶討論，以便從這些潛在項目中採購一些產品。我們有信心，根據我們對未來幾年成長的預測，特別是物料搬運市場的成長預測，我們能夠很好地滿足未來幾年的需求。

So we found that the capability to be able to monetize those assets was something that it was more valuable for Plug at this moment than making the investment of building a plant in New York. We have not -- we put all those plans for growth for production on hold at this moment. That doesn't mean that in the future, we may not pick up some of these plans when we are able to show that we can perform financially, and maybe able to finance these projects in a much more efficient way.

因此，我們發現，對於 Plug 而言，目前將這些資產變現的能力比在紐約投資建廠更有價值。我們沒有—目前我們已經暫停了所有生產成長計劃。但這並不意味著將來我們不會採納其中一些計劃，當我們能夠證明我們在財務上能夠勝任，並且能夠以更有效的方式為這些項目融資時。

But at the moment, monetizing those projects, and with the hydrogen availability that we have visibility for, we feel that this is the best solution and the best path for growth for Plug.

但就目前而言，考慮到這些項目的盈利能力以及我們對氫氣供應的可見性，我們認為這是 Plug 成長的最佳解決方案和最佳途徑。

Got it. Thanks, Jose Luis. And then the One Big Beautiful Bill Act reinstated tax credits, but it also introduced stricter requirements for eligibility, and that's something that's been a supply chain headache for some renewables players. So I'm wondering if Plug Power has had to retool its supply chain meaningfully?

知道了。謝謝你，何塞路易斯。然後，《一項偉大的法案》恢復了稅收抵免，但也引入了更嚴格的資格要求，這對一些再生能源企業來說一直是供應鏈上的難題。所以我想知道Plug Power是否不得不對其供應鏈進行重大調整？

So for the ITC, the investment tax credit, what we have seen is that the requirements to be able to take advantage of the tax credit were meaningfully simplified from what they were before the past -- last year in Congress. So at this moment, actually, this 30% tax credit has become even a simpler way for our customers to take advantage of. And we've been discussing with many of our customers on this and they agree on this point. So it's actually been an improvement on the credit process for our customers.

因此，對於投資稅收抵免 (ITC) 而言，我們看到的是，享受該稅收抵免的要求與去年國會通過的法案相比有了實質性的簡化。所以目前來看，這項 30% 的稅收抵免實際上已經成為我們客戶更容易享受的優惠方式。我們已就此與許多客戶進行過討論，他們也同意這一點。所以實際上，這改善了我們客戶的信貸流程。

Very interesting. Jose, thanks again.

很有意思。何塞，再次感謝你。

Sameer Joshi, H.C. Wainwright.

Sameer Joshi，H.C. Wainwright。

Hey, good afternoon. Good evening. Thanks for taking my questions. Congrats on the new role, officially the new role. So, I think, I just wanted to hit on two broad categories on revenues from material handling. Are we looking to add additional pedestal customers just like the flooring something that was at the symposium? And then how -- on the electrolyte plant -- electrolyzer front, the 8-gigawatt pipeline that you spoke about, how is that plan to be converted into orders?

嘿，下午好。晚安.謝謝您回答我的問題。恭喜你榮升新職，正式榮升新職。所以，我想重點談談物料搬運收入的兩個大類。我們是否希望像研討會上提到的地板產品一樣，增加更多的底座客戶？那麼，在電解槽工廠方面，您提到的 8 吉瓦專案計劃，如何才能轉化為訂單？

Thank you, Sameer. On the material handling side, we are talking to many new potential customers. I think we're going to see some new customers being signed. And some of them, like you mentioned, Floor & Decor, can be multi-side, or what we call pedestal customers. So there is an open door for new pedestal customers in 2026 and beyond.

謝謝你，薩米爾。在物料搬運方面，我們正在與許多新的潛在客戶洽談。我認為我們會看到一些新客戶簽約。而像您提到的 Floor & Decor 這樣的公司，其中一些可能是多面客戶，或者我們稱之為「基座客戶」。因此，2026 年及以後，新的底座客戶仍有許多機會。

On the $8 billion funnel for electrolyzers, we continue working with many of the companies that we have in that funnel towards FID, towards the financial investment decision, final investment decision. What we're seeing in many cases is with some -- especially in the European market, but also, as I said, we saw -- we're going to see some new opportunities closing in Australia, and we closed the opportunity in the U.K. with Carlton Power and Schroders at the end of last year, which will be executed this year. What we're seeing in the European market is that the Re3 regulation is being converted into law in many of the countries in Europe, which requires certain -- especially for the transportation sector, which requires a certain percentage of the hydrogen use for transportation purposes, including refineries, to convert to green hydrogen at a rate of about 1% by 2030. This means that refineries like (inaudible) Galp or other refineries in Europe are looking to ways to meet that -- those requirements.

在價值 80 億美元的電解槽專案上，我們繼續與該專案中的許多公司合作，朝著最終投資決策 (FID) 邁進。我們看到，在許多情況下，尤其是在歐洲市場，正如我所說，我們也看到了——我們將看到一些新的機會在澳洲達成，我們在去年年底與 Carlton Power 和 Schroders 在英國達成了合作，該合作將於今年執行。我們看到歐洲市場上的 Re3 法規正在歐洲許多國家轉化為法律，該法規要求某些——特別是對於交通運輸部門，要求到 2030 年，用於交通運輸目的的氫氣（包括煉油廠使用的氫氣）的一定比例以約 1% 的速度轉化為綠色氫氣。這意味著像 Galp 這樣的煉油廠或歐洲其他煉油廠正在尋找滿足這些要求的方法。

And this is what is accelerating the investment decision in many of these projects. What we're going to see is in the next 12 to 24 months, as the mandate becomes law, we're going to see these projects coming to fruition, and we're expecting to take a fair share of that funnel. So that is kind of the timeline that I'm looking at right now for conversion of the funnel.

而這正是加速許多此類專案投資決策的原因。接下來的 12 到 24 個月裡，隨著這項授權成為法律，我們將看到這些項目陸續實現，我們預計我們將從中分一杯羹。這就是我目前關注的轉換漏斗的時間軸。

Thanks for that color. And then on the margin front, I mean, really congratulations on the success on bringing margins down, especially on the services and also on the equipment. On the equipment sales going forward, should we continue -- like should we see what you -- positive gross margins, or because of lower revenues expected seasonally margins will be still in sort of negative teens?

謝謝你提供的顏色。至於利潤率方面，我真的要祝賀你們成功降低了利潤率，尤其是在服務和設備方面。關於設備銷售的未來，我們是否應該繼續保持正毛利率——例如，我們應該看到您所說的正毛利率，還是由於季節性收入預期下降，毛利率仍將處於負兩位數左右？

Do you want to cover?

你想負責嗎？

For equipment and specific --?

設備和具體——？

Yeah. Sameer, it's Paul. Yes. I would say if you just look at it mathematically with how Q1 typically is in relation to our annual sale in a seasonality standpoint and you kind of apply that to the math that Jose shared with looking at sales projections next year, I think we would see sequentially, it's coming down from Q4. It should be probably better than in that range of that same percentage from last year's Q1.

是的。薩米爾，我是保羅。是的。我認為，如果你從數學角度來看，從季節性角度來看，第一季通常與我們全年銷售額的關係，並將這種關係​​應用到 Jose 分享的關於明年銷售預測的數學計算中，我認為我們會看到，與第四季度相比，銷售額會逐季下降。應該會比去年第一季同等百分比的水平好一些。

But just sequentially with the lower volume equipment really is tied to leverage. So -- and most of it is just timing of those sales. And so without that incremental volume in the quarter, comparatively speaking, it's definitely going to affect margin. So you probably see a bit of a dip on the absolute and on the equipment margin in particular. But there are some favorable events. We definitely -- all the rooftop consolidations, all the things we've been doing next year that play well in terms of mitigating some of that.

但依序使用低產量設備其實與槓桿作用有關。所以——大部分原因只是銷售時機的掌握。因此，如果本季銷量沒有相應成長，相對而言，肯定會影響利潤率。所以你可能會看到絕對利潤率，尤其是設備利潤率會出現一些下滑。但也有一些有利的事件發生。我們肯定會採取——所有屋頂整合措施，以及我們明年將要採取的所有措施，這些措施在緩解其中一些問題方面都起到了很好的作用。

So on the whole, yes, but probably directionally better -- certainly better than Q1 last year. You're going to see progress both on sales and margin quarter-over-quarter -- I'm sorry, year over year on each quarter. So you probably -- but if you look at one-third of sales happen in the first half of the year and two-thirds in the second half, a lot of it is tied to volume. And when you look at what we've talked about for Q4, in particular, getting to that EBITDA positive range with kind of a $300 million sales proxy, it just gets you a tone of how that might play for the year.

總的來說，是的，但方向可能更好——肯定比去年第一季好。你會看到銷售額和利潤率每季都在成長——抱歉，應該說是每季都在年成長。所以你可能——但如果你看看，三分之一的銷售額發生在上半年，三分之二發生在下半年，很多都與銷量有關。特別是當我們回顧第四季的情況時，如果銷售額達到 3 億美元左右，EBITDA 實現為正值，就能大致了解這一年的發展趨勢。

So hopefully, that helps.

希望這能有所幫助。

Yes. No, that is really helpful. And I wanted to reconfirm that you're still targeting -- or from where you sit right now, you still are seeing two-thirds of the sales in second half, right?

是的。不，這真的很有幫助。我想再次確認一下，你們的目標仍然是——或者說，從你們目前的情況來看，你們仍然認為下半年的銷售額將佔總銷售額的三分之二，對嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Got it. Okay. Thanks a lot for taking my question.

知道了。好的。非常感謝您回答我的問題。

No, thank you.

不，謝謝。

Chris Tsung, Wolfe Research.

Chris Tsung，Wolfe Research。

Hey guys, good afternoon. Congrats Jose, on first day on the job. Yes, so most of my questions has already been asked. But I guess if you were to just provide some sort of guidance on your outlook for '26, are you able to share the segment mix? You're assuming across materials handling, electrolyzers fueling, et cetera?

各位，下午好。恭喜何塞，第一天上班！是的，我的大部分問題都已經被問過了。但我想，如果您要對 2026 年的前景提供一些指導，您能否分享一下細分市場組成？您是指物料搬運、電解槽燃料供應等方面的狀況嗎？

So it's going to be similar to what we've seen in 2025. Probably we're talking in the -- I will have to get the numbers a little bit more detail in there. But probably material handling will be in the 30% to 40% of revenues, right?

所以，2025年的情況會跟我們之前看到的類似。可能我們正在討論的是──我需要把更詳細的數字放進去。但物料搬運業務的收入可能佔總收入的 30% 到 40%，對吧？

Yeah.

是的。

And then you're going to see a similar amount, probably a little bit less on electrolyzers, and then the rest is going to be our fuel and [cryo] business. So that's kind of the mix that we're going to see. Material handling is still going to be the largest revenue generator for the company in 2026.

然後你會看到類似的數量，電解槽可能會少一些，剩下的就是我們的燃料和[低溫]業務了。所以這就是我們將會看到的組合。到 2026 年，物料搬運仍將是該公司最大的收入來源。

Right. And that makes sense. And just a follow-up on one of your responses earlier about 80% of '26 kind of like firm, or high confidence in the other 20%. Is that kind of -- is the right way to think about that, the 20% are external factors for customers that are -- that need to hit like specific milestones? Or like outside of your control or how do you think about that?

正確的。這很有道理。還有一點要補充的是你之前關於 80% 的 '26 的回复，以及另外 20% 的回复，你表示比較堅定，或者說非常有信心。這種理解方式是否正確—這 20% 是客戶的外在因素，他們需要達到特定的里程碑？或者說，這超出了你的控制範圍？你是怎麼看待這個問題的？

That 20% is projects that we are in the process of closing right now. Probably we're looking into closing them in the next few months that will secure the revenue for 2026. The other 80%, 77% to 80%, is what I calculated that we have in high probability are projects that we either have a firm commitment from the customer, or it's being finalized the commitment. So that 20% is projects that are right now being negotiated, and we're expecting to close them. We think the year to be able to realize renew within the year as well.

那20%是我們正在辦理交割手續的項目。我們可能會在未來幾個月內完成這些交易，以確保 2026 年的收入。剩下的 80%（77% 到 80%）是我計算出來的，我們很有可能已經得到客戶明確承諾的項目，或正在敲定承諾的項目。所以，這 20% 的項目目前正在洽談中，我們預計會完成這些項目。我們認為今年也能夠實現更新。

Alright, great, I'll turn over. Congrats again on the nice quarter.

好的，太好了，我翻身。再次恭喜你們本季業績出色。

Ameet Thakkar, BMO Capital Markets.

阿米特·塔卡爾，BMO資本市場。

Hi, thank you. Hi, good evening. Thanks for squeezing me in. Just one quick one for us -- hi, Jose, congrats. Just you mentioned kind of momentum in kind of growing with your existing pedestal customers. One of your larger pedestal customers, Walmart, you executed a release event license agreement with them earlier in this year. I was just wondering with your larger pedestal customers, to the extent they want to add more sites with you, do you anticipate kind of executing similar agreements with them before kind of doing so, and throughout 2026? Thanks.

您好，謝謝。您好，晚上好。謝謝你擠出時間陪我。就簡單說一句——嗨，何塞，恭喜你。正如你剛才提到的，在現有核心客戶群中，成長動能正在增強。今年早些時候，你與沃爾瑪（你的大客戶之一）簽訂了發布活動許可協議。我只是想問一下，對於你們的大型底座客戶，如果他們想在你們這裡增加更多站點，你們是否預計在這樣做之前以及在 2026 年期間與他們簽訂類似的協議？謝謝。

Yeah, you're referring to the licensing agreement? No, that was a very specific agreement with Walmart that we executed. An agreement that actually will help us to continue building and growing the relationship with Walmart, but I'm not expecting any similar agreements with any of the customers in 2026.

是的，你指的是授權協議嗎？不，那是我們與沃爾瑪簽訂的一份非常具體的協議。這項協議確實有助於我們繼續發展和壯大與沃爾瑪的關係，但我預計在 2026 年不會與任何其他客戶達成類似的協議。

Okay. And just maybe one quick follow-up on a different topic. I know Moeve in Spain and (inaudible) kind of green lit a fairly large electrolyzer project today. I was just wondering if you guys have any kind of role in that project. Thanks.

好的。或許還可以就另一個話題簡單補充一點。我認識西班牙的 Moeve 公司，他們今天（聽不清楚）批准了一個相當大的電解槽專案。我只是想問你們在這個專案中是否扮演任何角色。謝謝。

No, that was a project that was announced earlier in 2024. So it's been a project that has been out there for a while. It seems like when FID this week, today. And as far as I know, and I will have to kind of look at that, it is an alkaline project. It's a 300-megawatt alkaline project, and we are not part of that project. We are talking to other -- and we're talking to refineries in Spain about projects as well, but that project, in particular, is a 2024 project that seems to be going FID at this moment.

不，那是2024年初宣布的專案。所以這個專案已經啟動一段時間了。似乎就在本週，也就是今天，FID會公佈。據我所知（我得查一下），這是一個鹼性項目。這是一個300兆瓦的鹼性電池項目，我們沒有參與這個項目。我們正在與其他公司洽談——我們也在與西班牙的煉油廠洽談項目，但特別是那個項目，是一個 2024 年的項目，目前看來即將做出最終投資決定。

But I think it's good news in terms of the conversion that we're going to start seeing, as I was saying before, of projects to FID. These are projects that have been hanging for the last 24 months, and now, they're coming to fruition. This is kind of what we're expecting to see in the near future with the projects that we have in our funnels.

但我認為，就專案轉換而言，這是一個好消息，正如我之前所說，我們將開始看到更多項目轉化為最終投資決定。這些項目已經擱置了24個月，現在終於要實現了。這與我們預期在不久的將來，在我們目前正在推進的專案中會看到的情況大致相同。

Great thank you.

非常感謝。

Thank you. We reached end of our question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over to Jose Luis for any further closing comments.

謝謝。我們的問答環節到此結束。我想把發言權交還給何塞·路易斯，讓他做最後的總結發言。

Well, thank you, everyone, for the thoughtful questions and for your continued engagement, and for joining us on, my first earnings call as the CEO.

非常感謝各位提出的深思熟慮的問題，感謝你們的持續參與，也感謝你們參加我作為執行長的第一次財報電話會議。

Let me leave you with this. 2025 mark a structural turning point for Plug. We demonstrated that we can grow revenue while restoring margin discipline, and that combination matters.

最後我想說的是，2025年是Plug公司結構性轉捩點。我們已經證明，我們可以在恢復利潤率紀律的同時實現收入成長，而這種組合至關重要。

In 2026, our focus and targets are clear: execute with discipline, reduce cash usage, and deliver EBITDA positive in the fourth quarter.

2026 年，我們的重點和目標很明確：嚴格執行，減少現金使用，並在第四季度實現 EBITDA 為正。

The foundation is in place. The cost structure is improving, and the demand drivers are strengthening.

基礎已經打好。成本結構正在改善，需求驅動因素正在增強。

We really appreciate your support and look forward to updating you on our progress next quarter. And also, you are -- Friday, I'm going to be closing the bell at Nasdaq. So you can go to our website, and you're going to have a link to see me and a big part of the Plug team that has made the results this year in 2025 possible, closing the bell with me.

我們非常感謝您的支持，並期待在下個季度向您報告我們的進展。還有，星期五，我將在納斯達克敲響收盤鐘。所以你可以訪問我們的網站，你會看到一個鏈接，可以看到我和Plug團隊的大部分成員，正是他們讓2025年取得這樣的成績，和我一起敲響收盤鐘。

Thank you, everyone. Really appreciate your time.

謝謝大家。非常感謝您抽出時間。

Thank you. That does conclude today's teleconference and webcast, and we just connect your line at this time and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

謝謝。今天的電話會議和網路直播到此結束，我們現在為您接通線路，祝您度過美好的一天。感謝您今天的參與。