普拉格能源 (PLUG) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings and welcome to the Plug Power fourth-quarter 2024 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

問候並歡迎參加 Plug Power 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。

It is now my pleasure to introduce (inaudible), Vice President, Marketing Communications. Thank you. You may begin.

現在我很高興介紹行銷傳播副總裁（聽不清楚）。謝謝。你可以開始了。

Thank you. Welcome to the 2024 fourth-quarter and year-end earnings call. This call will include forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements contain projections of our future results of operations or a financial position or other forward-looking information. We intend these forward-looking statements to be covered by the Safe Harbor provisions for forward-looking statements contained in Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

謝謝。歡迎參加 2024 年第四季和年終收益電話會議。此次電話會議將包括前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述包含我們未來營運績效或財務狀況或其他前瞻性資訊的預測。我們希望這些前瞻性聲明能夠受到 1933 年證券法第 27A 節和 1934 年證券交易法第 21E 節中關於前瞻性陳述的安全港條款的約束。

We believe that it is important to communicate our future expectations to investors. However, investors are cautioned not to unduly rely on forward-looking statements. And such statements should not be read or understood as a guarantee of future performance or results. Such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results or performance to differ materially from those discussed as a result of various factors. Including but not limited to risks and uncertainties discussed under item 1A risk factors in our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ending December 31, 2024, as well as other reports we filed from time to time with the SEC. These forward-looking statements speak only as of the day in which the statements are made, and we do not undertake our intend to update any forward-looking statements after this call or as a result of new information.

我們認為向投資者傳達我們的未來期望非常重要。然而，警告投資者不要過度依賴前瞻性陳述。此類聲明不應被解讀或理解為對未來表現或結果的保證。此類聲明受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果或績效與因各種因素而討論的結果或績效有重大差異。包括但不限於我們截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的財政年度的 10-K 表年度報告中第 1A 項風險因素下討論的風險和不確定性，以及我們不時向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他報告。這些前瞻性陳述僅代表陳述發布當天的觀點，我們不承諾在本次電話會議之後或因新資訊而更新任何前瞻性陳述。

At this point, I would like to turn the call over to Plug Power's CEO, Andy Marsh.

現在，我想將電話轉給 Plug Power 的執行長 Andy Marsh。

Good morning and thank you for joining our fourth-quarter conference call.

早上好，感謝您參加我們的第四季電話會議。

Last night, we announced significant structural change to streamline our cost base through Project Quantum Leap. Over the coming months, we'll be reducing staff, refining our product focus and consolidating facilities. These measures are targeted to generate annualized cost savings of $150 million to $200 million. These decisions are not easy, but they are necessary.

昨晚，我們宣布了重大結構性變革，透過「量子飛躍計畫」精簡我們的成本基礎。在接下來的幾個月裡，我們將裁員、優化產品重點並整合設施。這些措施旨在節省每年 1.5 億至 2 億美元的成本。這些決定並不容易，但卻是必要的。

The slower they anticipate development in the hydrogen market has been influenced by multiple factors including the pace of policy implementation, global energy insecurity driven by geopolitical conflicts, the higher cost of project execution and passed over enthusiasm in this sector. However, we remain confident that hydrogen will play a critical role in the future energy mix, with many experts projecting it will eventually contribute 10% to 20% of the world's energy supplies.

他們預期氫能市場發展速度較慢，這受到多種因素的影響，包括政策實施速度、地緣政治衝突導致的全球能源不安全、專案執行成本較高以及該領域的熱情過高。然而，我們仍然相信氫將在未來的能源結構中發揮關鍵作用，許多專家預測氫最終將佔世界能源供應的 10% 至 20%。

The projects that will progress the fastest for those with a clear value proposition, strong policy support, and a well-integrated value chain. As we assess our businesses, our primary focus moving forward will be on three key areas material handling, electrolysers, and hydrogen generation to support material handling as they align best with these attributes.

那些具有明確價值主張、有力政策支持和完善價值鏈的項目將進展最快。在評估我們的業務時，我們未來的重點將放在三個關鍵領域：材料處理、電解器和氫氣生成，以支援材料處理，因為它們與這些屬性最為契合。

In material handling, we deliver a compelling value proposition by helping customers move goods more efficiently. Plug benefits from three revenue streams in this business products, services, and hydrogen.

在物料搬運方面，我們透過幫助客戶更有效率地運輸貨物來提供引人注目的價值主張。Plug 受益於其業務的三大收入來源：產品、服務和氫氣。

In 2024, we have made significant improvements in improving margins for service and hydrogen, expanding them by approximately $120 million compared to 2023, excluding the impact of customer warrant charges. Product margins, however, are tied to sales and factory utilization. Last year's sales were slower as we worked through price renegotiations with major customers in the transition from PPA to direct sales.

2024年，我們在提高服務和氫氣利潤率方面取得了顯著進步，與2023年相比，利潤率擴大了約1.2億美元，不包括客戶保證費用的影響。然而，產品利潤與銷售額和工廠利用率息息相關。由於我們在從 PPA 向直接銷售的過渡過程中與主要客戶進行了價格重新談判，因此去年的銷售速度較慢。

That process is now complete, and we expect increased deployments this year from both existing and new customers, which will improve our facility utilization and drive positive gross margins. Additionally, hydrogen margins will continue improving with the launch of our new joint venture facility in Louisiana this month while services on track to reach profitability by year's end.

這個過程現已完成，我們預計今年現有和新客戶的部署都會增加，這將提高我們的設施利用率並帶來正的毛利率。此外，隨著本月我們在路易斯安那州的新合資工廠的投入使用，氫氣利潤率將繼續提高，而服務預計將在年底前實現盈利。

Hydrogen production costs are a critical driver of both our profitability and the broader market development for fuel cells. By the end of this month, Plug will have 39 tons per day of capacity while customer demand stands at approximately 55 tons per day.

氫氣生產成本是我們獲利能力和燃料電池更廣泛市場發展的關鍵驅動因素。到本月底，Plug 的日產能將達到 39 噸，而客戶需求則約為 55 噸/天。

The DOE approval for our limestone plant in Texas, a project creating jobs in a deeply conservative district, was secured in January. We've already have the necessary equipment to cover our equity investment in the project and are finalizing the discussions with an external investors to complete the funding structure.

我們在德州的石灰石工廠於一月份獲得了美國能源部的批准，該計畫將為德州一個極其保守的地區創造就業機會。我們已經擁有必要的設備來涵蓋該專案的股權投資，並正在與外部投資者進行最後的討論以完成融資結構。

Given the change in administration, we now anticipate a later start in 2025 with project completion expected 18 to 24 months from the start date. Importantly, we do not plan to contribute additional Plug equity to complete the project and anticipate retaining a 70% to 80% ownership stake once operation.

鑑於政府部門的變化，我們目前預計專案將於 2025 年稍後開始，並預計在開始日期後的 18 到 24 個月內完成。重要的是，我們不打算投入額外的 Plug 股權來完成該項目，並預計在營運後保留 70% 至 80% 的所有權。

Our electrolyser business is essential to both our near-term and long-term growth. The primary applications involve replacing gray hydrogen in sectors like refining, green ammonia, and methanol production. Global demand remains strong, and we expect significant growth in both sales and bookings this year. Notably, we're executing large scale projects including the 100-megawatt deployment with GAAP.

我們的電解器業務對於我們的近期和長期成長都至關重要。主要應用涉及在煉油、綠色氨和甲醇生產等領域取代灰氫。全球需求依然強勁，我們預期今年的銷售額和訂單量都將大幅成長。值得注意的是，我們正在執行大型項目，包括採用 GAAP 的 100 兆瓦部署。

Here's why I see this is really important. Here's why I see tremendous potential in this market for Plug. Unlike some hydrogen fuel cell market that face challenges across the value chain, such as infrastructure, fueling, and financing hurdles for on-road vehicles, the replacement of gray hydrogen with green hydrogen is a much simpler transition. Customers can blend green hydrogen into existing processes without major operational changes, which accelerates deployments, speeds up time markets and you deliver immediate benefits.

這就是我認為這非常重要的原因。這就是為什麼我認為 Plug 在這個市場有巨大的潛力。與一些氫燃料電池市場面臨整個價值鏈的挑戰（例如基礎設施、燃料和道路車輛的融資障礙）不同，以綠色氫氣取代灰氫是一個更簡單的過渡。客戶可以將綠色氫氣融入現有製程中，而無需進行重大的營運變革，從而加速部署、加快市場速度並為您帶來直接的利益。

As we move forward from this restructuring and market adjustments, Plug will prioritize material handling, hydrogen production supporting material handling, and electrolyser sales alongside profitable cash generating assets in well-established markets. If the program is not tied to profitability or cash generation, Plug will not pursue the program in the near or long term.

隨著我們推動重組和市場調整，Plug 將優先考慮物料處理、氫氣生產支援物料處理和電解器銷售，以及成熟市場中的獲利現金產生資產。如果該計劃與盈利能力或現金產生無關，Plug 將不會在短期或長期內推行該計劃。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Sanjay to review our Q4 results, followed by Paul who will provide insights into our financial outlook.

說到這裡，我想把電話轉給桑傑來回顧我們的第四季業績，然後保羅將對我們的財務前景提供見解。

Thank you, Andy. And good morning, everyone. 2024 was a year of recalibration for Plug. It included some successes and some challenges. On a positive front, fourth quarter of 2024 marked another quarter of meaningful reduction in cash burn, continued gross margin expansion, and another step change in growth of our electrolyser business.

謝謝你，安迪。大家早安。 2024 年對 Plug 來說是重新調整的一年。這其中既有一些成功，也有一些挑戰。從積極的一面來看，2024 年第四季標誌著現金消耗又一個顯著減少、毛利率繼續擴大，以及電解器業務成長又一次發生重大變化。

Cash burn for the quarter was down year over -- 70% year over year, and gross profit improved year over year when you exclude the non-cash charges of customer warrant and inventory adjustment. It is important to highlight that this margin expansion was accomplished despite lower revenue year over year.

本季的現金消耗年減了 70%，如果除去客戶保證金和庫存調整等非現金費用，毛利則較去年同期有所提高。值得強調的是，儘管收入年減，但利潤率仍實現擴大。

Now in terms of challenges, market growth, as Andy touched on it, has been slower than anticipated. Reported revenue for Q4 '24 came in at $191 million and full year revenue of $629 million. We are disappointed with this continuous vicious revenue despite significant improvement in sales of the electrolyser business. We believe it is important to highlight a few key items that negatively impacted revenue in the quarter and for the full year 2024.

現在就挑戰而言，正如安迪所提到的，市場成長比預期的要慢。報告顯示，24年第四季的營收為1.91億美元，全年營收為6.29億美元。儘管電解器業務的銷售有了顯著改善，但我們對持續的惡性收入下滑感到失望。我們認為，有必要強調對本季和 2024 年全年收入產生負面影響的幾個關鍵因素。

As we highlighted in our press release issued last night, our application business revenue was impacted by a higher than usual warrant charge of $22.7 million, and we had another $8 million in revenue that got pushed out related to a specific customer program in our material handling business.

正如我們在昨晚發布的新聞稿中所強調的那樣，我們的應用業務收入受到了高於平常的 2270 萬美元的認股權證費用的影響，另外還有 800 萬美元的收入與我們的材料處理業務中的特定客戶計劃有關。

In our cryogenic tanker and trailer business, we actually made a strategic decision not to ship multiple mobile refueler product to a customer in Class A truck space given their financial position, which negatively impacted revenue by about $16 million in the quarter. In addition, we also had some production delays on a few key product line in our cryogenic business that had an impact of about $12 million of revenue in the quarter. Just to reconfirm, this production impact has been already mitigated and will show up as revenue in the first half of 2025.

在我們的低溫油罐車和拖車業務中，我們實際上做出了一項戰略決策，考慮到客戶的財務狀況，不向 A 級卡車領域的客戶運送多輛移動加油機產品，這對本季度的收入產生了約 1600 萬美元的負面影響。此外，我們的低溫業務中幾條關鍵產品線的生產也出現了一些延遲，這影響了本季約 1,200 萬美元的收入。再次確認，該生產影響已得到緩解，並將在 2025 年上半年反映為收入。

Despite delivering almost sixfold revenue growth in the fourth quarter of 2024 versus fourth quarter of 2023, our electrolyser business in the fourth quarter was negatively impacted by multiple factors which represented revenue impact of as much as $68 million. We expect some of this revenue to materialize in Q1 of 2025. Majority of this is related to customer delay, site readiness with some of the projects actually getting pushed to Q2 and Q3 of this year. And frankly, this revenue fluctuation on a quarterly basis in our opinion reflects the early stage of the industry growth as both supplier and customers learn to work together and keep moving projects forward.

儘管 2024 年第四季的營收較 2023 年第四季成長了近六倍，但我們第四季的電解器業務受到多種因素的負面影響，營收影響高達 6,800 萬美元。我們預計部分收入將在 2025 年第一季實現。其中大部分與客戶延遲、現場準備有關，一些項目實際上被推遲到今年第二季和第三季。坦白說，我們認為季度收入波動反映了行業成長的早期階段，因為供應商和客戶都學會了合作並不斷推動專案向前發展。

These factors had a total impact of over $120 million of revenue in Q4 of 2024. Just to reiterate, we believe some of the electrolyser opportunity will contribute to revenue in Q1 '25, and the majority of the customer pushout will be revenue opportunities in Q2 and Q3 of this year.

這些因素共影響了 2024 年第四季超過 1.2 億美元的營收。需要重申的是，我們相信部分電解器機會將在 25 年第一季為收入做出貢獻，而大部分客戶推廣將是今年第二季和第三季的收入機會。

Production related delays in our cryogenic business have already been addressed and will contribute to revenue opportunity in the first half of 2025. We also expect the revenue push out from Q4 '24 in our material handling business to contribute to revenue in Q1 of 2025.

我們的低溫業務中與生產相關的延遲問題已解決，並將在 2025 年上半年帶來收入機會。我們也預計，物料搬運業務從 2024 年第四季開始的營收將為 2025 年第一季的營收做出貢獻。

Now, based on all these items that impacted Q4 '24, overall seasonality in the first half of our business, and overall macro environment, we believe our Q1 '25 revenue will be in the range of $125 million to $140 million. You should expect to see continued gross margin improvement. We believe the year of 2025 is set up to be a year of meaningful bookings in our electrolyser business, as Andy highlighted. Given the current macro environment, we remain focused on driving costs down, expanding margin, and reducing our cash burn.

現在，基於影響24年第四季的所有這些因素、我們業務上半年的整體季節性以及整體宏觀環境，我們認為25年第一季的收入將在1.25億美元至1.4億美元之間。您應該會看到毛利率持續改善。正如安迪所強調的，我們相信 2025 年將成為我們電解器業務訂單量有意義的一年。鑑於當前的宏觀環境，我們仍然專注於降低成本、擴大利潤率和減少現金消耗。

With that, let me turn the call over to Paul to discuss the financial outlook in some more details.

說到這裡，讓我把電話轉給保羅，更詳細地討論財務前景。

Thank you, Sanjay. Since Andy addressed some of the broader market issues, and Sanjay talked about revenues and margins for the quarter, let me jump into a few specific topics.

謝謝你，桑傑。由於安迪談到了一些更廣泛的市場問題，桑傑談到了本季的收入和利潤率，因此讓我來談談幾個具體話題。

As conveyed in our filings yesterday, Plug recorded non-cash charges in the quarter of approximately $971 million for asset impairments and bad debt in OpEx and approximately $104 million COGS for inventory evaluation adjustments. These stem from multiple factors, including the decision to temper focus on certain products and markets that are more mid-term opportunities and overall market conditions resulting in slower growth of the industry than anticipated.

正如我們昨天的文件所傳達的那樣，Plug 在本季度記錄了約 9.71 億美元的資產減值和營運支出壞帳非現金費用，以及約 1.04 億美元的庫存評估調整 COGS。這源自於多種因素，包括決定調整對某些更具中期機會的產品和市場的關注，以及整體市場狀況導致產業成長速度低於預期。

In terms of the impairments, this relates to property, plant equipment, intangible assets, non-marketable equity investments, and assets associated with power purchase agreements and fuel. As a result of these impairments, it will reduce future amortization and depreciation, including a reduction of $55 million to $60 million in 2025.

就減損而言，這涉及財產、廠房設備、無形資產、非流通股權投資以及與購電協議和燃料相關的資產。由於這些減值，它將減少未來的攤銷和折舊，包括到 2025 年減少 5,500 萬美元至 6,000 萬美元。

In regard to cash burn, we were laser focused on margin and cash flow improvement in 2024, and we saw benefits throughout the year, and in particular, in Q4 '24. These actions included targeted price increases, labor optimization, rooftop consolidation, improvement in production costs, and leveraging our hydrogen platform with our new green hydrogen plant in Georgia coming online. We expect in '25 to include a full year of benefits from these activities undertaking during '24.

在現金消耗方面，我們專注於 2024 年的利潤率和現金流改善，並且我們在全年，尤其是 24 年第四季度看到了收益。這些措施包括有針對性地提高價格、優化勞動力、整合屋頂、改善生產成本，以及利用我們位於喬治亞州的新綠氫廠的氫平台。我們預計，25 年將從24 年開展的這些活動中獲得全年收益。

In addition, we expect initiatives and Project Quantum Leap to provide meaningful incremental improvement in margins and cash flows starting in Q2 of 2025 and building throughout the year. These additional measures will be complemented with the strategic efforts such as our new Hydrogen Louisiana plant coming online in Q2 of 2025. We continue to be laser-focused on driving deposit margins and cash flows in the near term.

此外，我們預計這些措施和「量子飛躍」計畫將從 2025 年第二季開始並在全年逐漸改善利潤率和現金流。這些額外措施將與戰略努力相輔相成，例如我們的新路易斯安那氫氣工廠將於 2025 年第二季投產。我們將繼續致力於短期內推動存款利潤率和現金流。

In terms of liquidity, we ended 2024 with more cash on hand than we anticipated with over $200 million in unrestricted cash. We recently closed our first ITC transfer sale for the $30 million benefit associated with the liquefier plant -- liquefier at our Georgia Green hydrant plant, illustrating opportunities to leverage additional ITC assets.

在流動性方面，到 2024 年底，我們的現金餘額超出預期，達到 2 億美元以上的無限現金。我們最近完成了首次 ITC 轉讓銷售，獲得了與液化器工廠（位於我們 Georgia Green 消防栓工廠的液化器）相關的 3000 萬美元收益，這表明有機會利用額外的 ITC 資產。

We have an effectively unleveraged balance sheet, and we're currently working with existing partners on varied capital solutions. These factors, coupled with the focus on improvement in margins and cash flows, put us in a strong position to achieve our near and mid-term financial goals and fund the company with the most prudent, cost-efficient capital solutions.

我們的資產負債表實際上沒有槓桿，目前正在與現有合作夥伴合作提供各種資本解決方案。這些因素，加上對利潤率和現金流改善的關注，使我們處於有利地位，可以實現近期和中期財務目標，並以最審慎、最具成本效益的資本解決方案為公司提供資金。

I'll now turn it back over to Andy.

現在我將把話題轉回給安迪。

Yeah, I guess opening for Q&A.

是的，我想開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Colin Rusch, Oppenheimer.

奧本海默的科林拉什 (Colin Rusch)。

Can you talk about the maturity of the financing for a number of the projects that you're talking about in that pipeline, the project financing oftentimes is a key gatekeeper, but just want to get a sense of cash flow, supporting all of those projects at this point.

您能否談談您所談論的多個專案的融資成熟度，專案融資往往是一個關鍵的把關人，但我只是想了解目前支援所有這些專案的現金流情況。

Would you take that, Sanjay?

你會接受嗎，桑傑？

So Colin, are you referring to some of the opportunities on the?

那麼科林，您指的是其中的一些機會嗎？

Yeah, exactly on the electrolysers.

是的，正是在電解器上。

Sure. So again, we are looking at two very large projects here in the near term. One is in Europe and one is in North America. And the project in Europe actually is going to final investment decision here by the end of the quarter, and look, it's a fully funded project right backed by a very large financial institution, so financing and the opportunities out of this project should not be a challenge.

當然。因此，我們再次關注近期的兩個非常大的項目。一個在歐洲，一個在北美洲。歐洲的項目實際上將在本季末做出最終投資決定，而且，這是一個由非常大的金融機構支持的全額資助的項目，因此融資和該項目的機會應該不會成為挑戰。

And next project in North America is actually related to big methanol opportunity. Again, there is already an offtake for that methanol opportunity. So in light of that, calling the biggest thing in this space, right, is before you get to FID, you've got to secure that offtake, really get the financing structure looking a lot like solar and wind from an off-take standpoint.

北美的下一個項目實際上與巨大的甲醇機會有關。再次，甲醇的這個機會已經存在。因此，有鑑於此，這個領域最重要的事情是在做出最終投資決定之前，你必須確保獲得承購權，從承購的角度來看，真正讓融資結構看起來很像太陽能和風能。

Both of the projects that we're looking at here in the first half of the year have that attribute, so we're really not concerned from an overall financing standpoint. We just want to make sure that we land the project. We've already done the basic engineering design packages in these cases and looking forward to moving ahead with the customer.

我們今年上半年關注的兩個項目都具有這一屬性，因此從整體融資角度來看我們並不擔心。我們只是想確保該專案能夠成功。在這些案例中，我們已經完成了基本的工程設計方案，並期待與客戶一起前進。

And then on the material handling side, obviously there was a lull in some of the spending in warehouse automation and some of the capacity getting digested in the warehouse space. You talk a little bit about what you're seeing from early indications, we saw some green shoots late in '24, on folks starting to spend again, but any material change in some of the spending patterns that you guys are seeing with some of those customers?

然後在物料處理方面，顯然倉庫自動化方面的一些支出和倉庫空間中的部分產能被消化了。您能談談早期跡象顯示的情況嗎？

I think I'll give you one indicator, Colin, is that one of my largest customers put down money to be able to qualify under the old 48 to support $200 million worth of business. I think that's a strong statement about their anticipated growth and expansion.

柯林，我想我可以給你一個指標，那就是我最大的客戶之一投入了資金，以便能夠符合舊 48 條款的資格，支持價值 2 億美元的業務。我認為這對他們預期的成長和擴張是一個強而有力的聲明。

We have both, what we see and we announced. As you may remember in the fourth quarter expansion with BMW in Germany, just to name a few of the larger customers, I can tell you that this announcement last night helps us with our customers. I checked in with some of our sales folks who I asked to reach out after market closed to let them know what we were planning to do.

我們既有我們所看到的，也有我們所宣告的。您可能還記得，我們​​在第四季度與德國寶馬公司進行了擴張，僅列舉幾個較大的客戶，我可以告訴您，昨晚宣布的這一消息對我們的客戶很有幫助。我聯繫了我們的一些銷售人員，並要求他們在市場收盤後聯繫我，告訴他們我們計劃做什麼。

But what I heard was we're happy you're going to take the steps to reach profitability. We're glad you're focusing our segment, and it makes it easier to do business in the future. So these are very difficult decisions, but in the material handling market, we expect that this will be well received.

但我聽到的是，我們很高興你將採取措施獲利。我們很高興您關注我們的領域，這將使我們未來的業務發展變得更加容易。所以這些都是非常艱難的決定，但在物料搬運市場，我們預期這將會受到歡迎。

I mean, if you take a look back on it, I mean, I was just sitting here thinking about what Paul mentioned when you start thinking about the income statement level, depreciation was going to reduce $60 million. We're reducing our annualized cost between $150 million to $200 million. They're big steps to reaching profitability.

我的意思是，如果你回顧一下，我的意思是，我只是坐在這裡思考保羅提到的當你開始考慮損益表水平時，折舊將減少 6000 萬美元。我們正在將年度成本削減 1.5 億美元至 2 億美元。這是實現獲利的重大措施。

Craig Irwin, Roth Capital Partners.

羅斯資本合夥公司的克雷格歐文 (Craig Irwin)。

So Andy, I wanted to ask about the DOE, right, your loan package with the DOE. There's a lot of investor scepticism out there, and nobody's going to know but you guys about what's actually being discussed with DOE and what the changes are. Can you maybe share with us any content of communications with DOE with over the last few weeks? Do you expect this team to continue to support the loan package the way it was written? Are there any changes or updates that you might want to share with us around the loan package that would help investors understand the opportunity?

安迪，我想問有關能源部的情況，對吧，你與能源部簽訂的貸款協議。很多投資人都持懷疑態度，除了你們之外沒有人會知道能源部實際上正在討論什麼以及具體會有哪些變化。您能否與我們分享過去幾週與 DOE 溝通的內容？您是否希望這支球隊繼續支持原先的租借方案？您是否想與我們分享有關貸款方案的任何變更或更新，以幫助投資者了解此機會？

Yes, Craig, there has been discussions with the DOE. And we're pleased at a working level, the individuals we have been dealing with have remained at the DOE. So we're not going through the process of re-educating the team. I think that's a big positive. I know there's lots of noise, but I could tell you when I became CEO of Plug, the first thing I did was step back and try to figure out everything that was going on.

是的，克雷格，我們已經與能源部進行了討論。我們對工作層面感到滿意，我們打交道的個人仍然留在能源部。因此我們不會經歷對團隊進行再教育的過程。我認為這是一個很大的正面因素。我知道有很多喧囂，但我可以告訴你，當我成為 Plug 的執行長時，我做的第一件事就是退後一步，試圖弄清楚正在發生的一切。

We have had regular conversations with the DOE over the past month. I, personally, be spending time with them this week, so, from an engagement point of view and look, we're in very red districts. We're in Texas where we're looking to build this, and I can tell you the local political teams, political folks in that region are strong supporters of this and are reaching out to make sure that this loan is executed on the deal that we came to.

過去一個月我們一直與能源部進行定期對話。就我個人而言，本週我會和他們一起度過一段時間，所以，從參與的角度來看，我們正處於非常紅色的地區。我們正在德克薩斯州尋求建立這個項目，我可以告訴你，當地的政治團隊、該地區的政界人士都大力支持這個項目，他們正在努力確保這筆貸款按照我們達成的協議執行。

Look, obviously, things which are associated with more social oriented issues will be downplayed. During the call, I mentioned -- during the opening statement, Craig, I mentioned how our portion of the equity we already have with equipment. We do have a few funds who want to play side by side with us, I would expect that construction of this project will most likely happen in the fourth quarter and that you can say 18 to 24 months before it's completed.

顯然，那些與更多社會問題相關的事情將被淡化。在通話過程中，我提到 - 克雷格，在開場白中，我提到了我們已經擁有的設備股權份額。我們確實有一些基金想要與我們並肩作戰，我預計該項目的建設很可能會在第四季度進行，並且可以說在完工前 18 到 24 個月。

And I know you didn't ask this question, but I do want to highlight we learned a lot from building Georgia how to build a plant. And I can tell you the Louisiana build was much simpler. We actually learned a lot and I don't -- I think the learnings we have as well as the cost reductions will bring to the business will be really beneficial long term.

我知道你沒有問這個問題，但我確實想強調的是，我們從建造喬治亞州的過程中學到了很多關於如何建造工廠的知識。我可以告訴你，路易斯安那州的建設要簡單得多。我們實際上學到了很多東西，但我認為我們所學到的知識以及成本降低將為企業帶來長期的真正好處。

Then, you touched on this in your response, and it was going to be my second question. So outside investors for the Texas project, you've already obviously attracted some pretty interesting attention and orders from groups like Fortescue for their Gibson Island project. Can you maybe frame out for us the character of outside investors that are possible there? I know there's some global funds that are pretty active in evaluating this opportunity that really want the opportunity to invest in hydrogen, but are we looking more at private equity or other institutional investors as probable partners on the Texas project?

然後，您在回覆中提到了這一點，這將是我的第二個問題。因此，對於德州專案來說，您顯然已經吸引了一些外部投資者的關注，並且獲得了 Fortescue 等集團對 Gibson Island 專案的訂單。您能否為我們描述那裡可能的外部投資者的特徵？我知道有一些全球基金非常積極地評估這個機會，他們確實希望有機會投資氫氣，但我們是否更多地將私募股權或其他機構投資者視為德克薩斯項目的可能合作夥伴？

We are looking at, and Sanjay and Paul jumped in, I would define most of the folks looking at our infrastructure funds looking to invest. And look, they're looking to invest in a new segment where there's growth potential. And we have a process that's going on. We've identified two or three folks that we've been talking to and I think that -- I think you'll be hearing more about it during the coming months.

我們正在研究，桑杰和保羅也加入進來，我認為大多數關注我們基礎設施基金並希望進行投資的人都是這樣的。而且，他們正在尋找具有成長潛力的新領域進行投資。我們正在進行一個進程。我們已經確定了兩三個正在交談的人，我想——我想你會在接下來的幾個月裡聽到更多關於它的消息。

And look, I think your first question, Craig, is important to this discussion. Look, people want clarity what's going on with the DOE. And that's part of the process in making sure that we can close these funds close with these funds in a timely fashion.

而且，克雷格，我認為你的第一個問題對本次討論很重要。瞧，人們想清楚了解能源部到底發生了什麼事。這是確保我們能夠及時結清這些資金的流程的一部分。

Thank you for that, Andy. And congratulations on the strong progress with your cash use. It's really pretty dramatic, the changes in this last year.

謝謝你，安迪。並祝賀您在現金使用方面取得了巨大進步。去年發生的變化確實非常引人注目。

Thank you, Craig. And we're looking -- we're going to continue to drive more to make sure we have a strong financial position.

謝謝你，克雷格。我們正在尋找——我們將繼續加大力度，以確保我們擁有強勁的財務狀況。

Saumya Jain, UBS.

瑞銀的 Saumya Jain。

So how are you looking at data center backup power generation? How do you see plug benefiting from that in 2025?

那麼您如何看待資料中心備用發電呢？您認為 2025 年插頭將如何從中受益？

To be direct, I don't see it as a benefit in 2025. Our view is that when it comes to hydrogen, one of the biggest challenge is to make sure that you can support long duration outages, and that requires a great deal of hydrogen storage on site.

直接地說，我不認為這會為 2025 年帶來好處。我們認為，就氫氣而言，最大的挑戰之一是確保能夠支援長時間停電，而這需要現場大量的氫氣儲存。

We think that business opportunity is a '28, '29 opportunity really to be successful, we really think you need hydrogen pipelines that you can store hydrogen in. And there are some data centers in Europe that could make sense in the future, but I would not expect revenue from that segment of any size over the next 2 to 3 years.

我們認為這個商業機會是一個『28、』29真正成功的機會，我們真的認為你需要一個可以儲存氫氣的氫氣管道。歐洲的一些資料中心在未來可能會有發展前景，但我預計未來 2 到 3 年內該部分收入不會有任何規模。

Bill Peterson, JP Morgan.

摩根大通的比爾彼得森。

Want to maybe take the applications question more broader than just the high-power stationary. So I think at the symposium a few months ago, I guess there you thought that the materials handling should probably go to 20% to 30% year-on-year growth, and now you're kind of expecting 10% to 20%. More broadly, I guess, over the next few years, what is going to drive the application's business? Is it going to be materials handed at this stage given your comments around stationary power, not or at least the high-power backup and maybe not viable in the next few years and then mobility appears to be very challenged as well. So what's going to drive the applications business and what's the right way to think about the growth over the next few years?

也許希望將應用問題拓展到更廣泛的領域，而不僅僅是高功率固定式。所以我想，在幾個月前的研討會上，您認為材料處理的同比增長率應該為 20% 到 30%，而現在您預計的增長率是 10% 到 20%。更廣泛地說，我猜，在接下來的幾年裡，什麼將會推動該應用程式的業務？考慮到您對固定電源的評論，現階段是否會提供材料，或至少是高功率備份，並且可能在未來幾年內不可行，然後移動性似乎也面臨著很大的挑戰。那麼，什麼將推動應用程式業務的發展？

Bill, this is a really important question. I kind of touched on my remarks, but the material handling business, you have a plug established, what I'll call a a micro infrastructure, that can support the customer's needs and so, the value chain is clear.

比爾，這是一個非常重要的問題。我有點觸及了我的評論，但對於物料搬運業務，你已經建立了一個插件，我稱之為微型基礎設施，它可以支持客戶的需求，因此價值鍊是清晰的。

And you look at markets like on-road mobility and stationery, there's so many other items in the value chain that have to be implemented and be successful for those businesses to grow fast over the coming 2 to 3 years. So you know material handling is one that we can look at and say the pieces are in place.

看看公路交通和文具等市場，價值鏈中還有許多其他項目需要實施並取得成功，才能使這些企業在未來 2 到 3 年內快速成長。因此，您知道，物料處理是我們可以查看並判斷各個部件是否到位的過程。

It's also, and you may have heard in my comments, when I talk about the electrolyser market. It's not going to be folks who are going to dominate, who are looking to drive mobility. It is going to be people who are able to put the end product, whether hydrogen or green ammonia or methanol or SAF directly into the value change without too much complication.

當我談論電解器市場時，您可能在我的評論中聽說過它。那些想要佔據主導地位、推動移動出行的人並不會參與其中。人們能夠將最終產品（無論是氫氣、綠色氨、甲醇或 SAF）直接放入價值變化中，而不會產生太多複雜情況。

I mean, I sat through -- about 3 or 4 months, I sat through a McKinsey presentation in DC and I sat back and listened to it and said to myself, they had a matrix of how one should think about markets, though they weren't talking about hydrogen, specifically, they were talking about the whole renewable world. And it really was kind of a clarifier to me that you need to develop focus on value chain.

我的意思是，大約有 3 到 4 個月的時間，我在華盛頓特區參加了一次麥肯錫演講，我坐下來聽著，對自己說，他們有一個關於人們應該如何看待市場的矩陣，雖然他們不是在談論氫，具體來說，他們在談論整個可再生能源世界。這確實讓我明白了你需要專注於價值鏈。

And look, our business will grow as we improve. Now, if you're a customer, what's your biggest concern when it comes to Plug? You have a business that improves the productivity of your operation. You have a company that -- we have fixed the hydrogen issues and risks our customers may have.

瞧，隨著我們的進步，我們的業務也會成長。現在，如果您是客戶，那麼對於 Plug，您最擔心的是什麼？您的企業可以提高營運生產力。你們有一家公司——我們已經解決了氫氣問題以及我們的客戶可能遇到的風險。

The biggest risk is how will Plug perform financially? And the steps we've taken today will actually help us accelerate growth in the market, and I can tell you, I do know some of our large customers, they're looking to accelerate their growth. If our numbers are lower today, Bill, look, we don't want to overpromise. We want to make sure we deliver and so we want to set clear expectations, but I think we see a healthy market. It's why we're laser-focused on material handling and why we're going to be laser-focused on electrolysers.

最大的風險是 Plug 的財務表現如何？我們今天採取的措施實際上將幫助我們加速市場成長，我可以告訴你，我確實知道我們的一些大客戶正在尋求加速他們的成長。如果今天的數字較低，比爾，你看，我們不想過度承諾。我們希望確保實現目標，因此我們希望設定明確的期望，但我認為我們看到一個健康的市場。這就是我們為何專注於材料處理以及為何我們要專注於電解器的原因。

Eric Stine, Craig-Hallum.

艾瑞克·史坦、克雷格·哈勒姆。

Hey, so I can appreciate it sounds like not guiding the fiscal '25, and I know Sanjay you gave Q1, but maybe just some commentary on the year. I mean, should we expect this to be your typical mix first half versus second half? How do you expect the year to play out sequentially? Any details to fill that in would be helpful.

嘿，所以我可以理解這聽起來像是沒有指導財政'25，我知道桑傑你給出了第一季度的數據，但也許只是對今年的一些評論。我的意思是，我們是否應該期待這是上半年與下半年的典型組合？您預計今年接下來將如何發展？任何填寫的詳細資料都會有幫助。

That's right, Eric. Look, I mean, as I kind of touched on it, so Q1, you have seasonality, right? Then we are looking at sort of the macro environment that's got a lot of puts and takes, if you would. And there is a benefit, however, though of some pushouts from Q4 into Q1. So when you look at this $125 million to $140 million in sales, typically Q1 has been 10% to 15%, but given some of the pushout, you can probably imagine it's more like 15% plus in terms of the revenue mix, 15% to 20%. So in light of that, that's I think, how you should think about the full year for the company at this point in time.

沒錯，埃里克。看，我的意思是，正如我剛才提到的那樣，Q1，你有季節性，對嗎？然後我們正在研究一個存在著許多利弊的宏觀環境，如果你願意的話。不過，將第四季的部分內容延後到第一季也有一定的好處。因此，當您看到 1.25 億到 1.4 億美元的銷售額時，通常第一季的銷售額會是 10% 到 15%，但考慮到一些因素，您可能可以想像，就收入結構而言，銷售額的增長幅度更像是 15% 以上，即 15% 到 20%。因此，考慮到這一點，我認為您應該這樣考慮公司目前這個階段的全年計劃。

And one other thing, we just want to make sure that Andy touched on it. What we have the strongest visibility on is Q1. We're already obviously sitting here in the month of March. We will do the same thing when we report our Q1 earnings to give you the visibility on Q2. We're really focused on obviously driving that top line, getting the growth for the company in '25, but the bigger focus you can appreciate hopefully is on reducing cash burn, expanding margin, and really getting to that EBITDA breakeven territory as soon as we can as a company.

還有一件事，我們只是想確保安迪已經談到了這一點。我們最看好的是第一季。顯然，我們已經進入三月了。當我們報告第一季收益時，我們也會做同樣的事情，以便您了解第二季的收益。我們真正關注的顯然是推動營收成長，25年實現公司的成長，但希望大家能夠理解，我們更大的關注點在於減少現金消耗，提高利潤率，並讓公司盡快實現 EBITDA 盈虧平衡。

And then maybe a good segue just on the cost reductions in your plan here in 2025. I mean, you gave pretty good detail there, I'm just curious how deep you see those. Is there more room to go if necessary and how do you kind of balance that between, as you said, I mean you've got even though now you're going to be more focused, material handling electrolysers, hydrogen still have a big growth opportunity. So how do you kind of balance your near-term objectives while still being able to execute on those longer-term growth plans?

然後也許這是一個很好的過渡，可以讓你輕鬆過渡到 2025 年的計劃中的成本削減。我的意思是，你在那裡給出了相當詳細的細節，我只是好奇你對這些細節的了解有多深。如果有必要，是否還有更多的發展空間，以及如何平衡這一點，正如你所說的，我的意思是，即使你現在要更加專注，材料處理電解器，氫仍然有很大的增長機會。那麼，您如何平衡近期目標，同時仍能執行長期成長計畫？

I do believe that the learnings you receive from deploying projects actually have large benefits to other markets. Nothing makes us better at deploying electrolysers than the fact that we learned how to build plants ourselves. Nothing helps us better for markets that will evolve in applications like stationery and getting our quality and of our present fuel cell products better every day.

我確實相信，從部署專案中獲得的經驗實際上會對其他市場產生巨大的益處。沒有什麼比我們自己學會如何建造工廠更能讓我們更好地部署電解器了。沒有什麼比這更能幫助我們在文具等應用領域不斷發展，並使我們現有的燃料電池產品的品質日益提高。

So I think that, you know, some folk -- I'm a power engineer by training and I think in a lot like a power engineer about how things scale, but when you think about fuel cells, you're really thinking about probably 23 different power levels of fuel cells, but learnings at one level translates to the next.

所以我認為，你知道，有些人——我是一名受過訓練的電力工程師，我像電力工程師一樣思考事物的擴展方式，但是當你考慮燃料電池時，你實際上考慮的可能是燃料電池的 23 種不同功率級別，但一個級別的學習可以轉化為下一個級別的學習。

So we're -- look, we are making and focusing on activities that will make our financials stronger, which in the long run, will really allow us to go into these other markets as they become available. So I guess that's, you know, being successful now will help us a great deal in being successful in the future and that's the decisions we're making.

所以，我們—你看，我們正在製定並專注於那些可以讓我們財務狀況更強勁的活動，從長遠來看，這將真正使我們能夠在這些其他市場成熟時進入這些市場。所以我想，現在的成功將對我們未來的成功有很大幫助，這就是我們所做的決定。

And maybe I'll just sneak in one more just for the $150 million to $200 million in targeted savings, can you just give kind of the high-level mix between cost of goods and OpEx?

也許我會再偷偷地多說一點，只是為了實現 1.5 億到 2 億美元的目標節約，您能給出商品成本和營運支出之間的高級組合嗎？

I would say I'll take a quick, and Paul, correct me if you disagree. I would probably say that it's almost fifty-fifty between COGS and OpEx.

我想說我會快速行動，保羅，如果你不同意的話，請糾正我。我可能會說，COGS 和 OpEx 的比例幾乎是五五開。

That's a good proxy.

這是一個很好的代理。

We haven't made -- we're obviously going through the process and I have to be respectful for our employees and others before I kind of say exact.

我們還沒有——我們顯然正在經歷這個過程，在說出確切答案之前，我必須尊重我們的員工和其他人。

George Gianarikas, Canaccord Genuity.

Canaccord Genuity 的 George Gianarikas。

I'd like to ask, Andy, about your view on the policy environment in Washington. It's clearly quite confusing and just curious as to whether you can share any details on conversations you've had or your view as to how, the next 6 or 12 months will look.

安迪，我想問您對華盛頓政策環境的看法。這顯然令人相當困惑，只是好奇您是否可以分享您進行過的談話的細節，或者您對未來 6 個月或 12 個月的看法。

So, we'd say it's obviously evolving environment and I'm going to be spending some time in DC later this week. When I look at the history of fuel cells and hydrogen, the supporters of it, the last time we had a real major fuel cell only bill to support the industry actually happened under President Trump and the -- and a pure republican congress. I can tell you last week, there was a bill introduced by Representative Tenney, who -- she was in a very red district supporting fuel cells, and it was her second bill that she introduced in this Congress.

所以，我們會說這顯然是一個不斷變化的環境，本週晚些時候我將在華盛頓特區待一段時間。當我回顧燃料電池和氫能的歷史以及它的支持者時，上一次我們真正推出一項重要的燃料電池法案來支持該行業實際上是在川普總統和純共和黨國會的領導下。我可以告訴你，上週，眾議員坦尼提出了一項法案，她所在的選區非常支持燃料電池，這是她在本屆國會提出的第二項法案。

I think that -- look, I've been pretty clear about the fact that we felt that the previous administration implementation of the IRA, especially when it came to hydrogen tax credits, was rather disappointing. And we kind of view the new administration as more business oriented and hydrogen is actually supported strongly by the oil and gas industry which is beneficial.

我認為——看，我已經非常清楚地表明了我們覺得前政府實施的 IRA，特別是在氫稅收抵免方面，相當令人失望。我們認為新政府更注重商業，而氫氣實際上得到了石油和天然氣產業的大力支持，這是有利的。

I suspect there'll be ups and downs, but look, I think this is really important. There is a global market for green ammonia, green methanol, there's needs for hydrogen here in the United States for applications like ours. That's not going away and this administration is looking for the US to be energy dominant. And to be energy dominant, you have to meet where the world sees demand and where the world sees new demand.

我預計會有起伏，但是看，我認為這真的很重要。綠色氨、綠色甲醇在全球都有市場，而美國也需要氫氣來滿足像我們這樣的應用。這種狀況不會消失，而本屆政府正在尋求美國在能源領域佔據主導地位。而要佔據能源主導地位，你就必須滿足世界的需求以及世界的新需求。

And it is in green ammonia. It is in green methanol. And that's not going to change. So I think it's really important for US to make sure that China doesn't dominate these industries long term. And I think many people in the House, in the Senate, as well as the DOE understand, Bergman, I think everybody knows was one of the biggest proponents of the hydrogen hubs. I think it just -- I know this is a long answer, but I think it just needs to settle down.

它存在於綠色氨水中。它存在於綠色甲醇中。這一點不會改變。因此我認為對美國來說，確保中國不會長期主導這些產業非常重要。我認為眾議院、參議院以及能源部的許多人都明白，伯格曼，我想大家都知道他是氫氣中心最大的支持者之一。我認為這只是——我知道這是一個很長的答案，但我認為它只是需要穩定下來。

Maybe as a follow up, I'd love your thoughts also on what's happening in Europe too.

也許作為後續問題，我也想聽聽您對歐洲正在發生的事情的看法。

There's -- if I look at Europe, the -- it's one of the reasons I think Sanjay is so positive about the electrolyser market. So much of what we're working on, for example, is in the hydrogen hubs, hydrogen Valley in Spain, where there's strong support for buildouts and deployments. I think that where you're going to see -- and I think you're going to see Germany continue to support hydrogen deployments.

如果我看看歐洲，這也是我認為桑傑對電解器市場如此樂觀的原因之一。例如，我們的許多工作都在氫氣樞紐、西班牙氫谷開展，那裡對建設和部署提供了強有力的支持。我認為你會看到——我認為你會看到德國繼續支持氫氣部署。

Obviously, the geopolitical tensions at the moment makes things a little tense. But look, even long term, we have an analyst who helps us in Europe who was an ambassador to the EU, told us there could be a huge opportunity for projects and deployments like we do in Ukraine once all this is calmed down. So, yeah, I think Europe is there's certainly lots of nuances with Europe. But you can look at Spain and can see what's going on and say, hey, this is really good for Plug Power. I think you can say the same about Australia, and I think these are markets that are going to be the heart of our electrolyser business.

顯然，當前的地緣政治緊張局勢使事態變得有些緊張。但是，即使從長遠來看，我們在歐洲有一位分析師幫助我們，他曾擔任駐歐盟大使，他告訴我們，一旦這一切平息下來，就像我們在烏克蘭所做的那樣，可能會有巨大的項目和部署機會。所以，是的，我認為歐洲確實存在許多細微差別。但你可以看看西班牙，看看那裡正在發生的事情，然後說，嘿，這對 Plug Power 來說真的很好。我認為澳洲也是如此，我認為這些市場將成為我們電解器業務的核心。

And look, you've heard our announcements in Portugal, for example, with (inaudible), what we're doing there, with what we're doing with [Arbedola] in Spain. These are projects that are going in the ground now to support the economy, and all of them are supported by the governments at some level.

例如，您已經聽到了我們在葡萄牙宣布的（聽不清楚）我們在那裡做的事情，以及我們與西班牙的 [Arbedola] 合作做的事情。這些項目目前正在實施中，以支持經濟，並且都得到了政府不同程度的支持。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

(inaudible), BTIG.

（聽不清楚），BTIG。

The Georgia ITC transfer is pretty interesting. Are there other piecemeal opportunities to pull cash out of existing equipment either Georgia or elsewhere and is there a reason you recognize the ITC on that particular liquefier rather than the entire plant?

喬治亞州 ITC 轉移非常有趣。是否存在其他零碎的機會可以從喬治亞州或其他地方的現有設備中提取現金，以及您是否有理由承認該特定液化器而不是整個工廠的 ITC？

The short answer on the first part is yes, we have as an example. When we turn on our plant in Louisiana, there'll be a ITC credit there associated with the liquefier as well, that we can take and we'll share with our our joint venture partner there that could be similar size to what we recognized in in Georgia.

關於第一部分的簡短答案是肯定的，我們有一個例子。當我們在路易斯安那州啟動工廠時，那裡也會有與液化器相關的 ITC 信用，我們可以獲得這些信用，並將其與那裡的合資夥伴分享，其規模可能與我們在喬治亞州確認的規模相似。

And then we have some additional assets that we've deployed last year for PPA opportunities that there's ITC benefits on that is probably in the $15 million to $20 million range that we're out. We're actually working pretty closely right now to closing in the near term on both of those opportunities. So that's meaningful and helpful in terms of the cash.

然後，我們去年為 PPA 機會部署了一些額外資產，這些資產的 ITC 收益可能在 1500 萬至 2000 萬美元之間。事實上，我們目前正在密切合作，希望在短期內抓住這兩個機會。因此，從現金角度來看，這是有意義且有幫助的。

And then on the answer on Georgia is that you know, there's a decision to make on the balance of plants as to whether you take PTC or ITC, we've decided to take the PTC benefits. We recognized those in our results last year and we're going to continue to do that. Any plant that we put in place, we go through a cash benefit analysis as to is it better to take the ITC or to do the PTC, and it's -- there's many factors that fall into that, and -- but that's the choice that we have, so that's where we stand on that for the Georgia plan.

關於喬治亞州的答案是，你知道，我們需要根據工廠的平衡來決定是否採用 PTC 或 ITC，我們決定採用 PTC 福利。我們在去年的業績中認識到了這一點，並且我們會繼續這樣做。我們建立的任何工廠，都會進行現金收益分析，以確定是採用 ITC 還是 PTC 更好，這其中涉及很多因素，但這是我們的選擇，所以這就是我們對喬治亞計畫的立場。

[Chris Son], Wolfe Research.

[Chris Son]，沃爾夫研究公司。

I'm looking at your CAGR, just wanted to check, are there new conditions that you need to satisfy in order to receive the DOE loan?

我正在查看您的複合年增長率，只是想檢查一下，為了獲得 DOE 貸款，您是否需要滿足新的條件？

I'm not sure, there's not new conditions. The loan was finalized in early January. The only thing that we have to do is -- and it's approved. The way it works is the loan itself has been the paper documented, approved, everything's there to apply the first project, which is Texas, there's some specific things that we have to put in place in terms of like direct agreements between the DOE and the EPC contractors an example is just one microcosm example, so those are things that we're working on.

我不確定，沒有新的情況。這筆貸款於一月初最終完成。我們唯一要做的就是——並且它得到批准。其運作方式是，貸款本身已經有文件記錄和批准，一切都已準備就緒，可以申請第一個項目，即德克薩斯州，我們必須落實一些具體事項，例如能源部和 EPC 承包商之間的直接協議，這只是一個縮影，所以這些都是我們正在努力的事情。

We're really close and they're not necessarily additional conditions that make it any obstacles. It's just really unfortunately, the parties that work on these things that we're working with have done many other deals with the DOE, so they're used to working with the DOE on these kind of ancillary agreements, and so, it's more just I would say for lack of better words, the bureaucracy of just putting crossing the T's and dotting the I's and putting all those residual components in place to officially kick off Texas as a project underneath that structure.

我們已經非常接近目標了，而且不一定會有任何額外的條件成為障礙。只是非常不幸的是，與我們合作的各方已經與能源部達成了許多其他協議，因此他們習慣於與能源部就這類輔助協議進行合作，所以，我想說，這更多的只是官僚作風，只是把所有剩餘的部分放到位，正式啟動德克薩斯州作為該結構下的一個項目。

Just for my follow up on that loan, how much are you requesting as part of the first draw down? And did you, sorry if I missed this earlier, did you say you're expecting proceeds in Q4 or is that when construction expected to restart?

只是為了跟進那筆貸款，您要求第一次提款的金額是多少？抱歉，如果我之前錯過了這個問題，您是否說過您預計第四季度會有收益，或者預計那時施工將會重新開始？

So we would -- I would think that Q4 is my best estimate when construction would start. Paul, maybe you can go through the process of how you pull down cash.

所以我認為第四季是我對施工開始時間的最佳估計。保羅，也許你可以介紹一下你如何提取現金的過程。

Yeah, so the way it'll work is when we get the project approved and kick off the effort there, which is really getting the EPC guy going again, EPC contractor going, which as Andy said, tentatively would be we're thinking would be in the probably in the fourth quarter. In the first month, what happens is you compile all of the anticipated invoices each month that you expect to pay as part of that project and you submit that to the DOE and then they advance money against that. So that's -- we're going to get credit for our equipment that we've contributed to the project. And then they will front money to pay the majority of the bills that we have to pay to construct that project as we move forward. So, that's how practically it works.

是的，所以它的工作方式是，當我們獲得專案批准並開始努力時，這實際上會讓 EPC 人員、EPC 承包商再次開始工作，正如安迪所說，我們認為這暫時可能是在第四季度。在第一個月，您需要匯總每個月預計支付的所有發票，並將其提交給 DOE，然後他們會根據這些發票預付款。所以——我們將因我們為該專案貢獻的設備而獲得讚譽。然後，他們會預付資金來支付我們在建造該專案過程中必須支付的大部分費用。所以，它的實際運作原理就是這樣的。

Tim Moore, Clear Street.

蒂姆·摩爾 (Tim Moore)，Clear Street。

An important watch point by investors is the positive gross margin inflection point that investors have been eagerly waiting on. You made some really good progress announcing the cost savings plan. I think your prior guidance of the symposium was the expectation back then was to maybe be slightly positive gross margin exit rate for the year. I'm just wondering, now with the significant cost savings plans being rapidly implemented, do you think that exit rate still holds, or do you think you could pull it off in the third quarter for maybe positive third quarter gross margin?

投資人關注的一個重要點是投資人一直熱切期待的毛利率正拐點。你們在宣布成本節約計劃方面取得了非常好的進展。我認為您之前對研討會的指導是，當時的預期是當年的毛利率退出率可能略有正值。我只是想知道，現在正在快速實施重大成本節約計劃，您是否認為退出率仍然有效，或者您是否認為您可以在第三季度實現這一目標，從而實現第三季度的正毛利率？

I mean, our goal is always hopefully trying to do things sooner rather than later. But look, given everything and all puts and takes, I think it holds in terms of Q4 of 2025 as a good target that we are looking to turn gross margin positive.

我的意思是，我們的目標始終是希望能儘早完成事情。但是，考慮到所有因素和所有的利弊，我認為就 2025 年第四季而言，我們希望實現毛利率轉為正值，這是一個不錯的目標。

The other question I had is on a different topic. Maybe can you speak to maybe the liquid hydrogen appetite and the sentiment, the H2 hubs network rollouts, a little bit behind schedule. Just -- can you give any color or stories on progress there with some customers and green shoots for takeaway from your production facilities.

我的另一個問題是關於另一個主題的。也許您可以談談對液態氫的需求和情緒，H2 樞紐網絡的推出有點落後於計劃。只是——您能否提供一些細節或故事，說明您與一些客戶的進展情況，以及您生產設施的綠色新芽。

I think the hubs will develop. I never thought the hubs would develop that fast if you looked at the funding for the hubs, it was years of study and implementation and that was even under the previous administration. We never -- and I think if you even go back to previous conference calls, we never expected significant near term or even midterm revenue from the hubs.

我認為這些樞紐將會發展。如果您看看這些中心的資金，我從未想過這些中心會發展得如此之快，這需要多年的研究和實施，甚至這還是在上一屆政府的領導下。我們從來沒有——我想如果你回顧之前的電話會議，你會發現我們從來沒有期望過這些中心能在短期甚至中期帶來可觀的收入。

I think hub's implementation would help the hydrogen industry later in this decade, and that's always been our view. And they're just -- I would say this, they never really had a very fast schedule and I don't see them be meaningful to us over the next 2 to 3 years, but if implemented, not only is it a sales opportunity, but really helps to build out the larger hydrogen economy. So we're supportive, but probably, you're not stunned that they have not accelerated as fast and as people may have thought. But also, quite honestly, they're accelerating at a pace that the government actually laid out there. So, that's kind of our thought process there.

我認為 hub 的實施將有助於本世紀後期的氫能工業發展，這一直是我們的觀點。而且他們只是——我想說的是，他們從來沒有一個非常快速的時間表，我也不認為他們在未來 2 到 3 年內對我們有意義，但如果實施，這不僅是一個銷售機會，而且確實有助於建立更大的氫經濟。所以我們支持，但或許，你不會對他們的加速速度沒有人們想像的那麼快感到驚訝。但坦白說，他們正在按照政府規定的速度加速發展。這就是我們的思考過程。

Samantha Hoh, HSBC.

何曼珊（Samantha Hoh），匯豐銀行。

I hate to bring it back to -- hey, Andy. You mentioned a few times about the Texas plant being a very red district that's very pro hydrogen, and the one thing that's really striking me is just how much support the state of Texas has for hydrogen, like enthusiasm overall actually is quite palpable. Has there been any conversation in terms of Texas, funding in any sort of stimulus or what type of initiatives that they can provide to get the industry, the hydrogen industry more competitive or just accelerating the all the developments there if the federal government does kind of pull back on their support?

我不想再提這件事了——嘿，安迪。您多次提到德克薩斯州的工廠是一個非常支持氫氣的紅色地區，而真正令我震驚的一件事是德克薩斯州對氫氣的支持程度，整體熱情實際上是相當明顯的。有沒有關於德克薩斯州的討論，如果聯邦政府確實減少對它的支持，他們可以提供什麼樣的刺激資金或舉措來提高該行業，特別是氫能行業的競爭力，或者只是加速那裡的所有發展？

I have not -- I will be meeting with people from the Texas delegation this week. I have not seen anything, and we do have people in Houston. I have not seen anything to date where the Texas delegation can help us the most and the Texas government is to help move things to the DOE quicker as they learn, and I think, you see both representatives and senators willing to help in that area.

我還沒有——本週我將會見德克薩斯州代表團的人員。我沒有看到任何東西，我們確實在休斯頓有人。到目前為止，我還沒有看到德克薩斯州代表團能為我們提供最大的幫助，德克薩斯州政府將在了解情況後儘快幫助將事情移交給能源部，我認為，眾議員和參議員都願意在這方面提供幫助。

I guess the other thing that I'm kind of curious about that, it was like potential monetization of the PCC. I realized that there's still a lot of questions as to what's going to happen with like a potential tax plan ultimately. But what sort of conversations are happening behind the scenes in terms of opportunities to potentially monetize those once we have greater clarity? And then I guess, what are your thoughts in terms of how quickly that could, like, what kind of milestones should we be looking at? Like how quickly can anything on that side occur?

我想我對此感到好奇的另一件事是，它就像是 PCC 的潛在貨幣化。我意識到對於潛在的稅收計劃最終將會發生什麼情況仍存在很多問題。但是，一旦我們有了更清晰的認識，就可能將這些貨幣化的機會而言，幕後正在進行什麼樣的對話？然後我想，您認為我們應該以多快的速度實現這一目標，例如，我們應該專注於什麼樣的里程碑？就像那邊的任何事情發生得有多快？

You want to take that, Paul?

保羅，你想拿走那個嗎？

Yeah, so, I guess there's two facets. One is practically the way it works is when you file your tax return, it's a direct pay associated with that. So, worst case we file in October, like other corporates that are calendar year, companies, and they pay from that.

是的，我想有兩個面向。一種實際運作方式是，當你提交納稅申報表時，它會直接與你聯繫。因此，最糟糕的情況是我們在十月提交申請，就像其他按日曆年計算的公司一樣，他們從那時開始付款。

What we are working with is the tax equity broker that we used to close the ITC sale in Georgia to see if there's parties that want to discount that, it's only a few months, but it can be meaningful to us to discount and sell it off. The good news is we have tax opinions from a reputable big global tax firm and all of the analysis and things that we need to put that package together and make it a very attractive opportunity to sell it off.

我們正在與稅務股權經紀人合作，我們曾用它來完成喬治亞州的 ITC 銷售，看看是否有各方願意打折，雖然只有幾個月的時間，但打折和出售對我們來說很有意義。好消息是，我們擁有一家知名的全球大型稅務公司的稅務意見以及整合整個方案所需的所有分析和資料，這使其成為一個非常有吸引力的出售機會。

And if we -- when we establish that, it makes it easier to do that for this year and start taking advantage of this year, monetizing this year as well. So it's a work in process and it's still new, like any new market opportunity, it takes time to kind of nurture through it, but we're pretty actually encouraged with the interest level and how we're postured to try and possibly monetize that.

如果我們—當我們建立起這一點時，那麼今年就可以更輕鬆地做到這一點，並開始利用今年的優勢，也將今年貨幣化。所以這是一個正在進行的工作，它仍然是新的，就像任何新的市場機會一樣，它需要時間來培育，但我們對興趣水平以及我們如何嘗試並將其貨幣化感到非常鼓舞。

Amit Dayal, H.C. Wainwright.

阿米特·達雅爾，H.C.溫賴特。

Andy, just -- we just sort of the macro environment right now and how you providing guidance. Part of the sales pipeline that was built up until say 2024 is still valid, can you give us a sense of how that aspect of the execution may have changed a little bit?

安迪，我們只是了解當前的宏觀環境以及您如何提供指導。到 2024 年建立的部分銷售管道仍然有效，您能否讓我們了解執行方面可能發生了哪些變化？

You want to take that, Sanjay?

你想拿走它嗎，桑傑？

A couple of things on this, right? So our electrolyser business in 2025 largely is executing on the existing backlog. That really hasn't changed, right? We're hopeful that we might even be able to do slightly better than that. But it all really comes down to executing on the backlog. And just to put this in context, I mean, electrolyser business grew about 60 -- more than 60% year over year from '23 to '24, we wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar growth rate again in 2025.

關於這一點，有幾件事嗎？因此，我們 2025 年的電解器業務主要依據現有積壓訂單執行。那真的沒有改變，對嗎？我們希望甚至能夠做得更好。但一切其實都歸功於積壓任務的執行。具體來說，電解器業務從 23 年到 24 年同比增長了約 60% 至超過 60%，如果 2025 年再次出現類似的增長率，我們不會感到驚訝。

Now, another piece of our business which is largely backlog driven as well is our cryogenic tanker and trailer business. We look -- that business slow down a bit year over year from '22 to '24 largely because of some of the push out, some decisions even we made on the mobile refueler space, even the collection situation and things like that. So that business, I think again, will grow back up here in 2025 versus 2024 from a revenue standpoint.

現在，我們的另一項業務也主要受積壓訂單驅動，那就是低溫油輪和拖車業務。我們發現 - 從 22 年到 24 年，業務同比有所放緩，主要是因為我們採取了一些措施，甚至在行動加油機領域做出了一些決定，甚至收集情況等等。因此，我認為，從收入角度來看，該業務將在 2025 年而非 2024 年重新成長。

So short answer to your question, we really don't think there is any risk to that existing backlog. Obviously, we're going to want to book more business here. Well, one very important point to highlight here is we talk about potential for pretty big bookings in the electrolyser business. Those bookings will really have '26 and beyond, not so much 2025, given the size of the project and when they move and things along those lines. But otherwise, look, we feel pretty good about the existing backlog. It's all about heads down and execute.

所以簡單回答你的問題，我們確實不認為現有的積壓有任何風險。顯然，我們希望在這裡承接更多業務。這裡要強調的一點是，我們討論的是電解器業務的巨額訂單潛力。考慮到專案規模以及移動時間等因素，這些預訂實際上將持續到 2026 年及以後，而不會持續到 2025 年。但除此之外，我們對現有的積壓工作感覺相當良好。一切取決於埋頭苦幹和執行。

Ameet Thakkar, BMO Capital Markets.

BMO 資本市場的 Ameet Thakkar。

Just one quick one for me, given kind of your kind of path here to positive cost margins at the end of the year and the cost cutting, I was just wondering if you could kind of share with us what your plans are in terms of kind of relying on some of the facilities you have for external equity, how much is kind of baked into the year for that?

我只想快速問一個簡單的問題，考慮到你們在年底實現正成本利潤率和削減成本的途徑，我只是想知道你是否可以與我們分享你們的計劃，就依賴你們的一些設施來獲得外部股權而言，今年你們的計劃是多少？

So, I would just say that we have not used any of that since mid-November, any of those facilities and you, know there is a backdrop to support the business if required.

所以，我只想說，自 11 月中旬以來，我們就沒有使用過任何這些設施，而且你知道，如果需要的話，有一個背景可以支援業務。

You have utilized the convertible facility, right, for like I think it's like you issuances of $22.5 million and I think the first two months of the year. Is that separate from that?

您已經利用了可轉換工具，對吧，我認為您在今年前兩個月發行了 2250 萬美元。那和那有差別嗎？

Yeah, that's actually just payback. Instead of selling stock, we actually execute it by providing cash.

是的，這實際上只是回報。我們實際上不是透過出售股票，而是透過提供現金來實現這一目標。

Do you have anything else to comment, Paul?

保羅，您還有其他評論嗎？

I think just for clarity, so we -- the convertible that we did, the preferred convertible we did in November, there's been two elements. One is we had some amortization on that. And then because the stock price hit the 290, they did convert, I think it was like $10 million shares.

我認為只是為了清楚起見，我們所做的轉換，我們在 11 月所做的首選轉換，有兩個要素。一是我們對此進行了一些攤銷。然後因為股價達到 290 點，他們確實轉換了，我想這相當於價值 1000 萬美元的股票。

But to Andy's point, we have not used, either of the ATM facility or the recent (inaudible) agreement with your bill, so we sit in a good position with ending $200 million in cash end of the year. And things like the ITC help bring in liquidity. We also get the restricted cash at $50 million a quarter that comes in in March. So there's a lot of positive things that are helping us navigate this fiscal year.

但正如安迪所說，我們既沒有使用 ATM 設施，也沒有使用最近與您的賬單達成的（聽不清楚）協議，因此我們處於有利地位，年底時我們將擁有 2 億美元的現金。而諸如 ITC 之類的東西有助於帶來流動性。我們也會在三月獲得每季 5,000 萬美元的限制現金。所以有很多正面的事情幫助我們度過這個財政年度。

Kashy Harrison, Piper Sandler.

卡西·哈里森，派珀·桑德勒。

So my first question is on Georgia. You've now had it running for around a year. Just curious where run rate utilization is on the project and how long it took to get there? And the same question for cost of goods sold. I think you guys were thinking about maybe $4 per kilo of production cost, but I'm just curious, where actual results have landed relative to those expectations.

我的第一個問題是關於喬治亞的。現在您已經運行它大約一年了。只是好奇該專案的運行率利用率是多少以及達到這個水平需要多長時間？對於銷售成本也有同樣的問題。我想你們考慮的生產成本大概是每公斤 4 美元，但我只是好奇，實際結果相對於這些預期來說如何。

Do you want to take that one, Paul?

保羅，你想拿那個嗎？

Yeah, I'd say as you ramp and commission the plant, obviously, the cost per kilogram is higher than what you expected. As we've gone through the year and really worked out the bugs and figured out how to run that plant more smoothly, you get the leverage on it, right? And so, I'd say we're kind of in that $5 kilogram range before the PTC, that's right, and obviously, the PTC is super helpful.

是的，我想說，當你擴大並調試工廠時，每公斤的成本顯然會高於你的預期。經過這一年，我們真正解決了問題，並找到瞭如何讓工廠更順利地運轉的方法，你就掌握了槓桿的作用，對嗎？所以，我想說，在 PTC 之前，我們的價格大概處於 5 美元/公斤的範圍內，沒錯，而且顯然 PTC 非常有幫助。

Which gets it down to the 250-type range.

這使得它下降到 250 型範圍。

Exactly. So that's kind of where we're sitting at the moment and we expect to take the full -- this year, will be really good because we'll get the full year benefit of that whereas last year, you only got a portion of that because of the timing of turning on the plan and the periods of time that we were ramping up that facility.

確切地。這就是我們目前的狀況，我們預計將獲得全部收益——今年將會非常好，因為我們將獲得全年收益，而去年，由於啟動計劃的時間和我們擴大該設施的時間段，您只能獲得其中的一部分。

And sorry, where is the utilization?

抱歉，它的利用價值在哪裡？

Utilization is we can run a full production, so you know, it's just based on demand. And so, we need to run 15 tons a day, we will run 15 tons a day. I think most days are in the 11 to 12 tons per day range.

利用率是我們可以進行全面的生產，所以你知道，這只是基於需求。所以，我們每天需要運行 15 噸，我們每天就會運行 15 噸。我認為大多數日子每天的數量都在 11 至 12 噸之間。

And then my follow up question is just thinking about just for capacity, I think you talked about 39 tons per day of current capacity, current demand, I believe at 55. You're working on bringing Texas online, which is 45, so you'll have excess capacity once Texas comes online, just given all the comments around, the slower market development than you anticipated. Just wondering where you're envisioning sending those excess volumes to?

然後我的後續問題只是考慮產能，我想您談到了目前的產能為每天 39 噸，目前的需求，我相信是 55。您正在致力於讓德克薩斯州上線，也就是 45，所以一旦德克薩斯州上線，您將擁有過剩的產能，只是考慮到周圍的所有評論，市場發展比您預期的要慢。只是想知道您計劃將這些多餘的貨物運送到哪裡？

Not exactly want to provide information about who we're competing against and where we're looking to provide it. What I would say is we have a strong sales funnel and a strong sales team working those opportunities. There's big market already for liquid hydrogen and we have opportunities for people who already buy liquid hydrogen at scale who are very interested in buying scale out of taxes.

並不確切想提供有關我們的競爭對手以及我們希望在哪裡提供這些資訊。我想說的是，我們擁有強大的銷售管道和強大的銷售團隊來抓住這些機會。液態氫市場已經很大，我們為那些已經大規模購買液態氫並對免稅購買規模感興趣的人提供了機會。

And then maybe one more thing as some of the players have decided they're exiting the green hydrogen space, as we bring some of these other plants online and demand for green hydrogen is a long term in nature, so that I think puts us in a pretty good position as well, just to reiterate.

也許還有一件事，隨著我們讓一些其他工廠上線，一些參與者決定退出綠氫領域，並且對綠氫的需求是長期的，所以我認為這也使我們處於相當有利的地位，只是重申一下。

As Andy said, look, we even have some discussion with existing industrial gas customers which will swap arrangement. It's all about if you have a plant in California, if you have a demand in the East Coast or in the Southeast, right, then that's where you end up doing a lot of swaps. So look, we work very closely together with many of them, and as Andy said, we feel pretty good about demand being there even as we bring our Texas plant online.

正如安迪所說，我們甚至與現有的工業氣體客戶進行了一些討論，將交換安排。這取決於你是否在加州有一家工廠，如果你在東海岸或東南地區有需求，那麼你最終就會在那裡進行大量的交換。所以看，我們與他們中的許多人密切合作，正如安迪所說，即使我們將德克薩斯工廠投入生產，我們對那裡的需求感到非常高興。

Andrew Percoco, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的安德魯‧佩科科 (Andrew Percoco)。

Maybe just to start out coming back to the DOE loan for a second, I think in the press release you guys cited $400 million of of coverage from the DOE loan on $600 million of of incremental investment. I mean that implies about you know two-thirds coverage on an advance rate. I think you guys had previously talked about 80% advance rates on the DOE loan so just curious what the delta is there and if there's been a change in in maybe the advance rate assumptions that you're having on that facility?

也許我們先回到能源部貸款的問題上，我認為在新聞稿中你們提到了能源部貸款 4 億美元的覆蓋範圍和 6 億美元的增量投資。我的意思是，這意味著預付利率的三分之二左右的覆蓋率。我認為你們之前曾討論過能源部貸款 80% 的預付利率，所以很好奇那裡的增量是多少，以及你們對該設施的預付利率假設是否發生了變化？

Yeah, there's no change. It's up to 80% and the dynamics on each project will vary based on the size of the plant and other factors. And we also have some of that is a decent amount of contingency in those assumptions and so, obviously, with the learnings that we've had in Georgia and now Louisiana, we hope that feel like that we're in a pretty good position that you know, we won't use all that so that's the -- I guess the dynamic, Andrew, in terms of how it plays.

是的，沒有變化。這一比例高達 80%，並且每個項目的動態將根據工廠的規模和其他因素而有所不同。而且我們在這些假設中也考慮到了相當大的應急因素，因此，顯然，憑藉我們在喬治亞州和路易斯安那州所獲得的經驗，我們希望感覺我們處於一個相當有利的位置，你知道，我們不會使用所有這些，所以這就是——安德魯，我想這就是它的動態，就其如何發揮作用而言。

And maybe just sticking with CapEx for a second you quote $250 million that you've already spent on the project, another $600 million that you need to spend, gets you to about $850 million all in on a 45 ton per day plant. And if I just do that conversion, it implies like $19 million to $20 million of CapEx per ton per day of production, which I think is actually a little bit higher than Georgia. So just curious, can you just maybe walk through some of your assumptions there? I guess I would have thought it would be lower than Georgia just given some of the learnings that you guys have discussed. So any color there would be helpful.

也許只堅持資本支出一秒鐘，您引用已經在項目上花費的 2.5 億美元，另外需要花費的 6 億美元，使您在日產 45 噸的工廠上的總投資達到約 8.5 億美元。如果我做這樣的換算，就意味著每噸每天的生產需要 1900 萬到 2000 萬美元的資本支出，我認為這實際上比喬治亞州要高一點。所以只是好奇，能否簡單闡述您的一些假設？考慮到你們討論過的一些情況，我想我本來認為這個數字會比喬治亞州低。所以任何顏色都會有幫助。

I don't know what the math is right, but Georgia will come in around $800 million with contingency. And the contingency is probably 10%-15% and so, you know, there's built in contingency in that Texas number. So you know, overall, I think before the contingency it'll come in around $700 million.

我不知道計算是否正確，但喬治亞州將獲得約 8 億美元的應急資金。而應急準備大概是 10%-15%，所以，你知道，德州的數字中已經包含了應急準備。所以你知道，總的來說，我認為扣除意外事件之前，其收入將達到約 7 億美元。

And I think that's it for the day till. Well, thank you, everyone, for joining the call. And look, so we're making the tough decisions to make sure this business is successful long term. We're laser-focused on material handling and hydrogen to support it, which will really help us grow the market long term. We're laser-focused on electrolysers and especially those applications which can be deployed rapidly. We're making some deaf tough decisions to cut costs and make sure the company can achieve our EBITDA and gross margin goals.

我想今天的事情就這樣了。好吧，感謝大家參加電話會議。所以，我們正在做出艱難的決定，以確保這項業務的長期成功。我們專注於材料處理和氫氣支持，這將真正幫助我們長期發展市場。我們專注於電解器，特別是那些可以快速部署的應用。我們正在做出一些艱難的決定來削減成本並確保公司能夠實現我們的 EBITDA 和毛利率目標。

So thank you, everyone, for joining. I appreciate the time. Bye now.

感謝大家的加入。我很感激您抽出時間。再見了。

Thank you. This does conclude today's teleconference. We appreciate your participation. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Enjoy the rest of your day.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝您的參與。現在您可以斷開您的線路。祝你剩餘的時光愉快。