PJT Partners Inc (PJT) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the PJT Partners fourth quarter 2024 earnings call. Today's conference is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 PJT Partners 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。今天的會議正在錄製。

At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Sharon Pearson, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, ma'am.

現在，我想將會議交給投資者關係主管 Sharon Pearson。請繼續，女士。

Thank you very much, and good morning, and welcome to PJT Partners' full year and fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call. I'm Sharon Pearson, Head of Investor Relations at PJT Partners. And joining me today is Paul Taubman, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Helen Meates, our Chief Financial Officer.

非常感謝，早安，歡迎參加 PJT Partners 2024 年全年和第四季財報電話會議。我是 PJT Partners 投資者關係主管 Sharon Pearson。今天與我一起出席的還有我們的董事長兼執行長 Paul Taubman；以及我們的財務長 Helen Meates。

Before I turn the call over to Paul, I want to Paul out that during the course of this conference call, we may make a number of forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to various risks and uncertainties, and there are important factors that could cause actual outcomes to differ materially from those indicated in these statements. We believe that these factors are described in the Risk Factors section contained in PJT Partners' 2023 Form 10-K, which is available on our website at pjtpartners.com.

在我將電話轉給保羅之前，我想告訴保羅，在這次電話會議過程中，我們可能會做出一些前瞻性的陳述。這些前瞻性陳述受各種風險和不確定性的影響，並且存在可能導致實際結果與這些陳述所示的結果有重大差異的重要因素。我們認為，這些因素在 PJT Partners 2023 年 10-K 表格中的風險因素部分有所描述，該表格可在我們的網站 pjtpartners.com 上查閱。

I want to remind you that the company assumes no duty to update any forward-looking statements and that the presentation we make today contains non-GAAP financial measures, which we believe are meaningful in evaluating the company's performance. For detailed disclosures on these non-GAAP metrics and their GAAP reconciliations, you should refer to the financial data contained within the press release we issued this morning, also available on our website.

我想提醒您，本公司不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務，並且我們今天所做的陳述包含非公認會計準則財務指標，我們認為這些指標對於評估公司的業績具有重要意義。有關這些非 GAAP 指標及其 GAAP 對帳的詳細揭露，您應該參考我們今天早上發布的新聞稿中包含的財務數據，該新聞稿也可在我們的網站上查閱。

And with that, I'll turn the call over to Paul.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給保羅。

Thank you, Sharon. Thank you all for joining us today. Earlier this morning, we reported record-setting full year 2024 results. Highlights include record revenues, record adjusted pretax income and record adjusted EPS. For the full year 2024, revenues were $1.49 billion, up 29% year-on-year. Adjusted pretax income was $278 million, up 52% year-on-year. and adjusted EPS was $5.02 per share, up 50% year-on-year. This strong performance was broad-based as PJT Park Hill restructuring and strategic advisory, all delivered record performance.

謝謝你，莎倫。感謝大家今天的參與。今天早些時候，我們報告了創紀錄的 2024 年全年業績。亮點包括創紀錄的收入、創紀錄的調整後稅前收入和創紀錄的調整後每股收益。2024年全年營收為14.9億美元，年增29%。調整後稅前收入為2.78億美元，年增52%。調整後每股收益為5.02美元，年增50%。這一強勁表現得益於 PJT Park Hill 重組和戰略諮詢等各方面的支持，均取得了創紀錄的業績。

Our substantial free cash flow generation enabled us to direct a record $333 million to share repurchases while still ending the year with a record cash balance of $547 million. Our 2024 performance reflects continued progress in building the best advisory-focused investment bank through sustained, disciplined investment in a competitively advantaged culture. We remain committed to building upon the strong momentum through further investment.

我們大量的自由現金流使我們能夠創紀錄地撥出 3.33 億美元用於股票回購，同時在年底仍以創紀錄的 5.47 億美元的現金餘額結束這一年。我們的 2024 年業績反映了我們透過在具有競爭優勢的文化中持續、嚴謹的投資，在打造最佳諮詢為重點的投資銀行方面不斷取得進展。我們將繼續致力於透過進一步投資來鞏固這一強勁勢頭。

After how it takes you through our financial results, I will review our business performance, recruiting initiatives and outlook in greater detail. Helen?

在向您介紹我們的財務表現之後，我將更詳細地回顧我們的業務表現、招聘計劃和前景。海倫？

Thank you, Paul. Good morning. Beginning with revenues. For the full year 2024, total revenues were $1.49 billion, up 29% year-over-year. And as Paul mentioned, we had record revenues in all of our businesses. For the fourth quarter, total revenues were $477 million, up 45% year-over-year, also reflecting year-over-year growth across all of the businesses.

謝謝你，保羅。早安.從收入開始。2024 年全年總營收為 14.9 億美元，年增 29%。正如保羅所提到的，我們所有業務的收入都創下了歷史新高。第四季總營收為 4.77 億美元，年成長 45%，也反映了所有業務的年成長。

Turning to expenses. Consistent with prior quarters, we presented the expenses with certain non-GAAP adjustments, which are more fully described in our 8-K. First, adjusted compensation expense. Full year adjusted compensation expense was $1.030 billion, representing a compensation ratio of 69%, which compares to 69.8% for the full year 2023.

談到費用。與前幾季一致，我們在費用中列出了一些非 GAAP 調整，這些調整在我們的 8-K 文件中有更詳細的描述。一是調整薪資費用。全年調整後薪資支出為 10.3 億美元，薪酬率為 69%，而 2023 年全年為 69.8%。

Given the higher compensation accrual for the first nine-months of the year, we accrued compensation at 67.9% for the fourth quarter. We expect our full year compensation ratio will decline in 2025 and we'll provide more specific guidance when we report our first quarter results.

鑑於今年前九個月的薪資應計金額較高，我們第四季的薪資應計金額達到 67.9%。我們預計 2025 年全年薪酬比率將下降，我們將在報告第一季業績時提供更具體的指導。

Turning to adjusted non-compensation expense to adjusted non-compensation expense was $185 million for the full year 2024, up 12% year-over-year. The largest driver of the year-over-year increase was higher occupancy costs. The increase also reflects higher travel and related expense and continued investment in Communications and Information Services. In the fourth quarter, total adjusted non-compensation expense was $47 million up 8% year-over-year.

轉向調整後的非薪酬費用，2024 年全年調整後的非薪酬費用為 1.85 億美元，較去年同期成長 12%。年比成長的最大驅動因素是入住成本的提高。這一增長也反映了差旅和相關費用的增加以及對通訊和資訊服務的持續投資。第四季度，調整後非薪資支出總額為 4,700 萬美元，較去年同期成長 8%。

And as a percentage of revenues, our adjusted non-compensation expense was 12.4% for the full year and 9% for the fourth quarter. Overall, we expect our total non-compensation expense in 2025 to grow at a similar rate to 2024, with the highest contribution to growth coming from travel expense driven by increased business-related activity as well as continued investment in our technology and data infrastructure.

作為收入的百分比，我們全年調整後的非薪資支出為 12.4%，第四季為 9%。總體而言，我們預計 2025 年的總非薪酬支出將以與 2024 年相似的速度增長，其中增長的最大貢獻來自於因業務相關活動增加以及對我們的技術和數據基礎設施的持續投資而推動的差旅費用。

Turning to adjusted pretax income. We reported adjusted pretax income of $278 million for the full year 2024 and $107 million for the fourth quarter. Our adjusted pretax margin was 18.6% for the full year and 2.4% in for the fourth quarter. The provision for taxes. As with prior quarters, we've presented our results as if all partnership units had been converted to shares, and that all of our income was taxed at a corporate tax rate.

轉向調整後的稅前收入。我們報告稱，2024 年全年調整後稅前收入為 2.78 億美元，第四季度調整後稅前收入為 1.07 億美元。我們全年調整後的稅前利潤率為 18.6%，第四季度調整後的稅前利潤率為 2.4%。稅額準備金。與前幾季一樣，我們展示的業績就好像所有合夥企業單位都已轉換為股票，而且我們的所有收入都按公司稅率徵稅。

Our effective tax rate for full year was 20.6% as we realized the significant tax benefit from the delivery of vested shares. The 20.6% rate was slightly below our previous estimate of 21%. We expect our 2025 effective tax rate to be at or below 2024 level given the continuing tax benefit from the delivery of vested shares, and we will provide a refined view at the end of the first quarter.

由於我們從交付既得股份中獲得了可觀的稅收優惠，因此我們全年的有效稅率為 20.6%。20.6%的成長率略低於我們先前估計的21%。考慮到交付既得股份帶來的持續稅收優惠，我們預計 2025 年有效稅率將等於或低於 2024 年水平，我們將在第一季末提供完善的觀點。

Earnings to share. Our adjusted earnings were $5.02 per share for the full year compared with $3.27 and 2023 and $1.90 for the fourth quarter compared with $0.96 for the fourth quarter of 2023. On the share count for the year ended 2024, our weighted average share count was 44.1 million shares, which grew by about 2.3 million shares or 6% year-on-year. The increase in the share count was due to both the share price increase and achievement of price hurdles for performance awards. During the year, as Paul mentioned, we repurchased 3.1 million share and share equivalents, including the repurchase of 489,000 share in share equivalence in the fourth quarter.

收益共享。我們全年的調整後每股收益為 5.02 美元，而 2023 年為 3.27 美元；第四季的調整後每股收益為 1.90 美元，而 2023 年第四季的調整後每股收益為 0.96 美元。截至 2024 年的年度，我們的加權平均股數為 4,410 萬股，年增約 230 萬股，即 6%。股份數量的增加是由於股價上漲和業績獎勵價格目標的達成。正如保羅所提到的，今年我們回購了 310 萬股股票和股票等價物，其中包括第四季回購的 489,000 股股票等價物。

In terms of our fully diluted share count, we ended 2024 with 46.7 million shares up just over 1% year-over-year. We are in receipt of exchange notices for an additional 324,000 partnership units, and we intend to exchange these units for cash. And consistent with our capital priorities, we will continue to invest in the franchise while using excess cash to over time reduce our share count.

就我們的完全稀釋股數而言，截至 2024 年底，我們的股數為 4,670 萬股，年增率略高於 1%。我們收到了另外 324,000 個合作單位的兌換通知，我們打算將這些單位兌換成現金。根據我們的資本優先事項，我們將繼續投資特許經營權，同時利用多餘的現金逐步減少我們的股份數量。

On the balance sheet, we ended with a record $547 million in cash, cash equivalents and short-term investments and $480 million in net working capital, and we continue to have no funded debt outstanding. Finally, the Board has approved a dividend of $0.25 per share. The dividend will be paid on March 19, 2025, to (inaudible) shareholders of record as of March 5, 2025.

在資產負債表上，我們最終擁有創紀錄的 5.47 億美元現金、現金等價物和短期投資以及 4.8 億美元的淨營運資本，我們繼續沒有未償還的債務。最後，董事會批准每股 0.25 美元的股息。股利將於 2025 年 3 月 19 日支付給截至 2025 年 3 月 5 日登記在冊的（聽不清楚）股東。

And with that, I'll turn it back to Paul.

現在我將話題轉回給保羅。

Thank you, Helen. Beginning with restructuring. Liability management continues to be the principal driver of activity as corporates and sponsors confront elevated interest rates challenged business models, technological disruption and changing consumer preferences. Our global restructuring business, again ranked number one in announced restructurings globally and in the US and again delivered record results, surpassing 2023's prior record performance.

謝謝你，海倫。從重組開始。隨著企業和贊助商面臨利率上升、商業模式挑戰、技術顛覆和消費者偏好變化等問題，負債管理繼續成為活動的主要驅動力。我們的全球重組業務在全球和美國宣布的重組中再次排名第一，並再次取得創紀錄的業績，超過了 2023 年之前的創紀錄表現。

Turning to PJT Park Hill. While global primary fundraising volumes declined for the third straight year, our performance ran counter to this trend with meaningful increases in capital raised and revenues realized. In Private Capital Solutions has benefited from both a strong macro environment as well as market share gains differentiated performance in both primary fundraising and private capital solutions enabled PJT Park Hill to deliver record revenues in 2024 besting our previous record results achieved in 2022.

轉向 PJT Park Hill。儘管全球一級融資量連續第三年下降，但我們的表現卻逆勢而上，籌集的資金和實現的收入都實現了顯著增長。私募資本解決方案受益於強勁的宏觀環境和市場份額的增長，在主要融資和私募資本解決方案方面的差異化表現使 PJT Park Hill 在 2024 年實現了創紀錄的收入，超過了我們在 2022 年取得的創紀錄成績。

Turning to Strategic Advisory. Our Strategic Advisory business also delivered record results in 2024, surpassing our previous high watermark set in 2021. Even with 2024 worldwide completed volumes, down nearly 50% from 2021 levels. We achieved this record performance through significant market share gains as we benefited from an expanded industry and geographic footprint, enhanced capabilities and greater brand recognition.

轉向策略諮詢。我們的策略諮詢業務也在 2024 年取得了創紀錄的業績，超過了我們在 2021 年創下的最高紀錄。即使到 2024 年，全球完工量也比 2021 年的水準下降了近 50%。我們得益於行業和地域覆蓋範圍的擴大、能力的增強以及品牌知名度的提高，透過大幅提升的市場份額實現了這一創紀錄的業績。

On the talent front, we had another strong recruiting year in 2024, expanding our industry and geographic coverage as well as enhancing our overall advisory capabilities through a sustained influx of senior hires. We intend to remain forward leaning in our recruiting efforts as we continue to build out our strategic advisory franchise. Over the past five years, our steadfast efforts to attract best-in-class talent have resulted in a 50% increase in partner count, furthering our coverage footprint and contributing to the substantial growth in firm-wide revenues.

在人才方面，2024 年是我們又一個強勁的招募年，透過持續招募高階人才，我們擴大了產業和地理覆蓋範圍，並增強了我們的整體諮詢能力。我們將繼續拓展策略諮詢特許經營權，並打算在招募工作中保持前瞻性。在過去五年中，我們堅持不懈地吸引一流人才，合夥人數量增加了50%，進一步擴大了我們的覆蓋範圍，並促進了全公司收入的大幅增長。

As we look ahead, we expect the macro backdrop for primary fundraising to remain challenging in 2025, while the private capital solutions business should continue to experience secular growth. In restructuring, we continue to believe we are in a multiyear cycle of elevated activity in liability management, and we expect 2025 to be another active year for our liability management team.

展望未來，我們預期 2025 年初級融資的宏觀背景仍將充滿挑戰，而私募資本解決方案業務應會持續經歷長期成長。在重組方面，我們仍然相信我們正處於負債管理活動不斷增加的多年周期中，我們預計 2025 年將是我們負債管理團隊的另一個活躍年份。

In Strategic Advisory, we expect to see higher levels of global M&A activity in 2025 as activity levels continue to normalize. We remain focused on further expanding our firm-wide capabilities by broadening our industry and geographic reach. We continue to focus on providing clients with differentiated advice and differentiated outcomes. And as before, we remain confident in our near, intermediate and long-term growth prospects.

在策略諮詢方面，隨著活動水準持續正常化，我們預期 2025 年全球併購活動水準將會更高。我們將繼續致力於透過拓寬我們的行業和地理範圍來進一步拓展我們全公司的能力。我們繼續專注於為客戶提供差異化的建議和差異化的結果。和以前一樣，我們對我們的近期、中期和長期成長前景仍然充滿信心。

With that, we will now take your questions.

現在我們來回答你們的問題。

(Operator instructions)

（操作員指令）

Devin Ryan, Citizens JMP Securities.

德文·瑞安（Devin Ryan），公民 JMP 證券公司。

I want to start with a question that touches on both the environment and productivity. And I appreciate that partner productivity is just an output, but $13 million per year-end banking partner in 2024 was a new record, just above 2020. Restructuring bankers roughly 15% of the partners were obviously well above average, maybe pushing 2 times the productivity is kind of our estimate. So maybe a little bit of upside there, but they're doing great and pulling (inaudible) average up.

我想從一個涉及環境和生產力的問題開始。我知道合作夥伴的生產力只是一種產出，但 2024 年每位銀行合作夥伴的年終收入達到 1,300 萬美元是一個新紀錄，略高於 2020 年。重組銀行家大約15％的合夥人顯然遠高於平均水平，也許推動2倍的生產力是我們的估計。因此，也許存在一點上漲空間，但他們做得很好，並且拉高了（聽不清楚）平均水平。

And then Strategic Advisory had a record year, as you mentioned, but seemingly still has a lot of upside to just productivity and the environment improves. And so just thinking about the broader backdrop for productivity, how would you frame where each business is today relative to its potential, just given that you have brought in so many bankers and then you have the environment, particularly in areas like M&A and for Park Hill recovering from tough levels.

正如您所說，策略諮詢業務創下了創紀錄的一年，但似乎在生產力和環境改善方面仍有很大上升空間。因此，僅從生產力的大背景來看，考慮到您已經引進瞭如此多的銀行家，並且您有環境，特別是在併購等領域以及 Park Hill 從困境中復蘇，您將如何定位目前每項業務相對於其潛力的位置。

Well, you asked a question where I can give you some general guardrails, but it's hard to be overly prescriptive because a lot of this is a function of the operating environment that is presented to you. And clearly, as the environment becomes more active, all else equal, you're going to see an increase in productivity. So what we focus in on is for a constant macro environment, do we see productivity upside?

好吧，你問了一個問題，我可以給你一些一般性的指導，但很難過度規定，因為其中很多都是呈現給你的操作環境的功能。顯然，隨著環境變得更加活躍，在其他所有條件相同的情況下，您將看到生產力的提高。因此，我們關注的是宏觀環境不變的情況下，我們是否看到生產力上升？

And the answer to that is an unequivocal yes. So if we were to go back and rerun 2024 today, my expectation would be that we would be more powerful rerunning those conditions of 2024 and than we were a year ago. Why? Because more of our partially built networks are now built. We have greater footprint. We have more continuity. We have greater brand recognition. We have a lot of attributes today that we didn't have 12 months ago and I expect 12 months from now, we'll have more of those attributes.

答案是肯定的。因此，如果我們今天回去重新運行 2024 年，我的期望是，我們將比一年前更有能力重新運行 2024 年的條件。為什麼？因為我們現在更多部分建成的網路已經建成。我們的足跡更加廣闊。我們擁有更多的連續性。我們的品牌認知度更高。我們今天擁有的許多屬性是 12 個月前所不具備的，我預計 12 個月後，我們將擁有更多這樣的屬性。

So I never like to talk about a dollar number for a couple of reasons. Our bankers aren't producing widgets, they're giving best-in-class advice. And sometimes, you can make progress, but there's no crystallizing event not because there's an issue with the platform, but because it's not the right time, either for your clients or it's not the right macro environment. But if you said to me what the direction of travel, it's up and to the right. Now if you had said, where do you expect the greatest upside to be not surprisingly, it's in the least mature of our businesses, which would be Strategic Advisory.

因此，由於幾個原因，我從不喜歡談論美元數字。我們的銀行家不生產小部件，他們提供一流的建議。有時，你可以取得進展，但沒有具體的事件發生，這並不是因為平台有問題，而是因為時機不對（對你的客戶來說如此，或宏觀環境也不合適）。但如果你告訴我行進的方向，那就是向上和向右。現在，如果您問，您認為最大的優勢在哪裡，毫無疑問，那就是我們業務中最不成熟的部分，即策略諮詢。

Okay. I appreciate that. And then as a follow-up, I'll maybe try for one on the comp ratio. And I also appreciate there's a lot of variables that will go into that as we think about in that analysis. But can you give us a sense of whether you were able to bring down deferrals after a really good record 2024, if there's anything else that would help structurally. And then just more broadly, how we should think about the relationship of revenue growth versus comp expense growth as we look into the next year?

好的。我很感激。然後作為後續行動，我可能會嘗試補償比率。而且我也意識到，在我們進行分析時，有很多變數會影響這個問題。但是，您能否告訴我們，在 2024 年創下非常好的記錄之後，是否能夠減少延期，是否還有其他可以從結構上提供幫助的措施。然後更廣泛地說，展望明年，我們該如何看待收入成長與費用成長之間的關係？

I think I've said -- I think I look back just in preparation and I look back on what we said after the second quarter, what we said after the third quarter, I think we've been remarkably consistent that we're set up very well to deliver comp leverage beginning in 2025. I think we delivered, if you will, a little early sign of what's to come in the fourth quarter, but I'll not manage this business on a quarter-to-quarter basis.

我想我已經說過了——我想我回顧一下只是為了做好準備，我回顧一下我們在第二季度後所說的話，我們在第三季度後所說的話，我認為我們已經非常一致地做好了準備，從 2025 年開始實現競爭槓桿。我想，如果你願意的話，我們已經提供了一些關於第四季度將會發生什麼事情的早期跡象，但我不會以季度為單位來管理這項業務。

What I've suggested from the very beginning is if you go back and you need to look at your comp expense over a multiyear period because when there are onboarding costs through buyouts and the like, those get amortized over a period of time. You then have bankers who are on the platform who are just ramping up. There's a mismatch and it doesn't go away the moment of the quarter or even the year after they're onboarded.

我從一開始就建議，如果你回顧過去，你需要查看多年期間的薪資費用，因為當透過收購等方式產生入職成本時，這些成本會在一段時間內攤提。然後你會看到平台上的銀行家們正在逐漸壯大。存在不匹配的情況，並且這種情況在他們入職後的某個季度甚至一年內都不會消失。

And you need to look at the totality of the investment and you need to look at where the revenue recognition is and you need to take a multiyear lens to all of that. And what I've said consistently is if you go back to 2021, the good news is we have surpassed our 2021 Strategic Advisory revenues in 2024. But the reality is we have a lot more individuals on the platform take and whatever revenue growth you've observed over three years pales in comparison to the growth in headcount over those three years.

您需要查看全部投資，需要查看收入確認的位置，並且需要以多年的視角來看待所有這些。我一直在說的是，如果回顧 2021 年，好消息是我們的策略諮詢收入在 2024 年已經超過了 2021 年。但實際情況是，我們平台上的個人數量要多得多，而三年來觀察到的任何收入增長與這三年的員工人數增長相比都顯得微不足道。

I think when we move forward, and we don't look at a '21, '24 we look at a '21 to '25 that starts to change meaningfully, and that's why we've said you should expect to see meaningful comp leverage beginning in 2025. But it's just too early to determine exactly how much, but we've been on a journey. We said when we hit 69.8% that we thought that was as high as it would go that we had swam as far offshore.

我認為，當我們向前邁進時，我們不會著眼於21年、24年，而是著眼於21年到25年，這幾年將開始發生有意義的變化，這就是為什麼我們說你應該期望從2025年開始看到有意義的薪酬槓桿。但現在確定具體數字還為時過早，但我們已經踏上旅程。我們說，當我們達到 69.8% 時，我們認為這是我們已經游到離岸最遠的最高水準。

And it wouldn't necessarily get better, but it certainly wouldn't gap out further from there. I think we held to that. And then we got into this year, and we think we're starting to swim slightly closer to shore and we had an accrual that was just a bit better. I think we finished the year a little bit better. But as you look at the arc of all of this, it's going to be '25 and beyond where you'll start to see us return to more normalized levels.

而且情況不一定會變得更好，但肯定不會進一步惡化。我想我們堅持了這一點。然後進入今年，我們認為我們開始稍微靠近岸邊一點了，而且我們的收益也稍微好一些了。我認為我們今年的表現稍微好一點。但當你回顧這一切時，你會發現，要到 25 年及以後，我們才會開始恢復到更正常的水平。

And then, (inaudible), you asked about deferrals, the deferral rates vary year-to-year. But if you look at the last few years and you look at the average. In 2024, we would say the deferrals were below average. In '23, there were probably above average. So we definitely had a lower deferral rate in '24, but nothing significant in terms of changing the philosophy of the structure.

然後，（聽不清楚），您詢問延期的情況，延期率每年都有所不同。但如果你看看過去幾年的平均值。到 2024 年，我們會說延期的情況低於平均值。在'23年，可能高於平均。因此，我們在24年的延期率確實較低，但對於改變結構概念而言並沒有什麼重大意義。

We're managing this business for the long term, we're not going to kind of just start tweaking things just to hit numbers and the like.

我們要長期經營這項業務，我們不會僅僅為了達到數字之類的目的而對某些事情進行調整。

James Yaro, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的詹姆斯·亞羅 (James Yaro)。

Paul, I'd just like to touch on the economic growth dichotomy between the US and Europe and the ramifications of that for M&A. So GDP seems to be falling slightly in Europe versus growing fairly well in the US, and rates are falling as a result faster in Europe, but less so in the US laying out these impacts, maybe you could just compare address the health of the M&A backdrop and for each jurisdiction.

保羅，我只想談談美國和歐洲之間的經濟成長差異及其對併購的影響。因此，歐洲的 GDP 似乎略有下降，而美國的 GDP 則成長相當不錯，因此歐洲的利率下降得更快，但美國的利率下降幅度較小。要闡述這些影響，也許您可以比較一下併購背景的健康狀況以及每個司法管轄區的情況。

Well, I think clearly, the US economy is the envy of the world and it's a remarkable growth engine. And certainly, when you compare it to two other countries, that continues to be the case. So when you ask though about M&A activity, presumably, it's from where we are today and what do the vectors, where are they pointing.

嗯，我認為很明顯，美國經濟是令世界羨慕的，它是一個卓越的成長引擎。當然，當你與其他兩個國家進行比較時，情況仍然如此。因此，當您詢問有關併購活動時，大概就是從我們現在所處的位置以及向量指向何處開始的。

And if you said to me, from where they are today, I actually think a case could be made for a meaningful uptick in European activity. Now some of that is there's a meaningful valuation disconnect between US and Rest of World. And at some point, notwithstanding the stronger prospects for growth the larger uniform market in which US companies operate versus a lot of small European markets that aren't fully stitched together through the EU and then you've got the UK standing separate and distinct.

如果你問我，從目前的情況來看，我實際上認為歐洲的經濟活動可能會出現有意義的上升。現在美國和世界其他地區之間存在著明顯的估值差距。在某種程度上，儘管成長前景更為強勁，但美國公司所在的統一市場更大，而許多歐洲小型市場並未透過歐盟完全連接在一起，因此英國仍然處於獨立和獨特的地位。

At some point, you have to ask yourself whether that valuation disconnect over penalizes European companies and just to be a bit contrarian I am of the view that, that probably starts to narrow, maybe not instantaneously. But I think there's a perception that there's greater value to be had in Europe. So I think that potentially creates a little bit of a catalyst to activity in Europe.

在某個時候，你必須問自己，這種估值脫節是否會對歐洲公司造成過度懲罰，而我持一種反對態度，我認為，這種差距可能會開始縮小，但也許不會立即縮小。但我認為人們認為歐洲的價值更大。所以我認為這可能會對歐洲的活動產生一點催化作用。

I also think that European governments are keenly aware that they need to stand up stronger European champions I wonder whether or not we're going to see a constructive view on consolidation and mergers within Europe from European company combined with other European companies to better compete on the global stage. And I think that, that's a positive. And then the reality is there are a lot of European companies that want to increase their exposure and access to the US market.

我也認為，歐洲各國政府敏銳地意識到，他們需要打造更強大的歐洲冠軍企業。我不知道我們是否會看到對歐洲內部整合與合併的建設性看法，即歐洲公司與其他歐洲公司聯合起來，在全球舞台上更好地競爭。我認為這是一件正面的事。現實情況是，許多歐洲公司都希望增加在美國市場的曝光度和進入美國市場的機會。

So all of those things, I think, suggest that that all is not lost in Europe, and that's one of the reasons we've made a concerted continued effort to build out our franchise in Europe. We've had great success. But we're not looking at that investment with a view towards what happens next quarter or next year, but it's an integral part of the global stage. And as you have more and more multinational companies who are in each other's market, you cannot have a leading practice without having a leading European franchise. And with every passing day, we are further along in that journey, and we are quite proud of what we've built in Europe.

所以，我認為，所有這些事情都表明，我們在歐洲還沒有失去一切，這也是我們齊心協力繼續努力擴大我們在歐洲的特許經營權的原因之一。我們取得了巨大的成功。但我們看待這項投資時並不著眼於下個季度或明年的情況，而是它是全球舞台不可或缺的一部分。隨著越來越多的跨國公司進入彼此的市場，如果沒有領先的歐洲特許經營權就不可能擁有領先的業務。隨著每一天的過去，我們在這段旅程中不斷前進，我們為我們在歐洲所取得的成就感到無比自豪。

Maybe just one more on advisory here. Obviously, very strong results in the quarter you talked about stronger strategic advisory being the driver there. But any additional color you could just give on the drivers of the strength? I am estimating the highest multiplier on (inaudible) revenues this quarter since 2019. And then separately, on secondaries, I think I've seen some industry estimates that secondary volume is up 40% in '24, but flowing to a central case of only 15% growth in 2025. Maybe you could just comment on the secondary's contribution in this quarter, but then on your expectations for whether the growth rate could slow in secondaries in 2025.

這裡也許還剩下一個諮詢。顯然，您提到的本季業績非常強勁，更強大的策略諮詢是推動力。但是您能對力量的驅動因素提供更多的資訊嗎？我估計本季（聽不清楚）收入的乘數是自 2019 年以來最高的。然後另外，關於二級市場，我想我已經看到一些行業估計，二級市場交易量在 2024 年增長了 40％，但到 2025 年僅增長 15％。也許您可以評論本季二級市場的貢獻，然後談談您對 2025 年二級市場的成長率是否會放緩的預期。

I think this quarter, the standard for this quarter was Strategic Advisory no matter how you look at it. If you look at it sequentially, if you look at it year-on-year, it was Strategic Advisory. If you look at it over the entire year, all of the businesses were standout performers. I think on a percentage increase. Clearly, the Park Hill business was up the most on a percentage increase, but not necessarily on a dollar increase, but we benefited from strength across all of our businesses.

我認為，無論從哪個角度來看，本季的標準都是策略諮詢。如果您按順序查看，如果按年查看，它就是策略諮詢。如果縱觀全年，所有企業都表現突出。我認為是百分比增加。顯然，Park Hill 業務的百分比增幅最大，但不一定是金額增加，但我們受益於所有業務的強勁增長。

There's only two years in our nine-year history with all three of our businesses were up year-on-year. It was 2019 and 2024, and you start to see a bit of the power of the franchise. But we're not really operating in anywhere near ideal strategic advisory conditions. We're still looking at M&A activity levels that are far down from peak levels far down based on traditional metrics of activity to GDP or to global market capitalization.

在我們九年的發展歷史上，只有兩年三項業務都較去年同期成長。那是 2019 年和 2024 年，你開始看到特許經營權的一些力量。但實際上，我們的策略諮詢條件還遠遠未達到理想狀態。我們仍然認為，以傳統的 GDP 或全球市值衡量標準，併購活動水準已遠低於高峰水準。

As I mentioned before, the primary fundraising business continues to be quite challenged. There's no doubt that secondary is a spot is a very important part of our business, and we are a leader in that business, and I expect that to continue. I don't spend a lot of time focusing on what some report suggests it's going to be up or not because reality is no one knows for sure. But as I look out get greater clarity.

正如我之前提到的，初級融資業務仍然面臨相當大的挑戰。毫無疑問，二級市場是我們業務中非常重要的一部分，我們在這個業務領域中處於領先地位，我希望這種情況能持續下去。我不會花太多時間去關注某些報告表明它會上漲還是不會上漲，因為事實上沒有人知道確切答案。但當我觀察之後，我變得更加清晰了。

So I could look out three years, five years. And I think there is many compelling reasons as to why our private capital solutions business should benefit from both long-term secular trends as owners of assets in the private market want to add other liquidity alternative portfolios. I continue to think that IPOs for many of these companies become less attractive options. And this presents another quite attractive option that is ever more interesting to the owners of these assets.

所以我可以展望三年、五年。我認為，有許多令人信服的理由可以解釋為什麼我們的私募資本解決方案業務應該從長期趨勢中受益，因為私人市場的資產所有者希望增加其他流動性替代投資組合。我仍然認為，對於許多這類公司來說，IPO 已不再那麼有吸引力。這提供了另一個相當有吸引力的選擇，對於這些資產的所有者來說更加有趣。

I think the issue has been that the amount of capital that's dedicated to this asset class sales in comparison to the ultimate demand. And as you marry that capability with our best-in-class fundraising distribution efforts through the PJT Park Hill business we have unique abilities to attract more capital to the class and to have a superior track record in terms of being able to execute on these transactions. So it's kind of all of the above.

我認為問題在於，用於此類資產銷售的資本數量與最終需求相比如何。當您將這種能力與我們透過 PJT Park Hill 業務實現的一流籌款分配工作結合起來時，我們就擁有了獨特的能力來吸引更多資本，並在執行這些交易方面擁有卓越的業績記錄。所以這就是以上所有情況。

Brennan Hawken, UBS.

瑞銀的布倫南‧霍肯 (Brennan Hawken)。

Good morning. This is Brennan Hawken. You had a record year in restructuring. And I was hoping you can help us understand how much that was up versus 2023. And do you still believe revenue growth in 2025 in restructuring is feasible?

早安.這是布倫南霍肯。你們在重組方面取得了創紀錄的一年。我希望您能幫助我們了解與 2023 年相比成長了多少。您仍然相信 2025 年重組後的收入成長是可行的嗎？

It's absolutely feasible. I'm not prepared to guarantee it, but it's certainly feasible. I mean we're in a multiyear wave of extended activity and liability management. If you look at 2019 to 2024, one thing that may surprise you is default rates are pretty much on top of one another. What's changed is the podium of debt outstanding. So if you take a similar percentage and apply it to a much larger debt stack. Guess what, you have a lot more activity. It doesn't look as if rates are coming down nearly as fast as others, including myself, had thought it's a bit stubborn on the long end, doesn't appear as if the Fed is likely to be more accommodative in the short term.

這絕對是可行的。我不能保證這一點，但這肯定是可行的。我的意思是，我們正處於持續多年的延長活動和責任管理浪潮之中。如果你展望 2019 年至 2024 年，你可能會感到驚訝的一件事是違約率幾乎是一致的。發生變化的是未償還債務的規模。因此，如果您採用類似的百分比並將其應用於更大的債務堆疊。猜猜看，你的活動多了很多。看起來利率下降的速度並不像包括我在內的其他人想像的那麼快，長期來看利率有點頑固，聯準會似乎不太可能在短期內採取更寬鬆的政策。

You have all of this economic uncertainty, tariffs and the like, I imagine that the amount of pain or number of companies who find themselves wrong-footed either to a different trade and tariff framework or technological change or consumer preference changes and the like, they're not going away. And I think it's a very important part of our business, and I expect it to to be a very important part of our business going forward.

你面臨著所有這些經濟不確定性、關稅等問題，我可以想像，那些因不同的貿易和關稅框架、技術變革或消費者偏好變化等而陷入困境的公司所遭受的痛苦或數量是不會消失的。我認為這是我們業務中非常重要的一部分，我期望它成為我們未來業務中非常重要的一部分。

And we knew going into the year, it would be active, but it could have been down a bit and still been highly active and near record, it turned out it was yet another record. I think it was comfortably another record, but probably the growth rate in that business was slower up than our other two businesses this year, but that's just a reflection of the other businesses having a different mix of opportunities in (inaudible)

我們知道，進入今年，它會很活躍，但它可能會下降一點，但仍然非常活躍，接近歷史最高紀錄，結果它又創下了歷史新高。我認為這無疑是另一個紀錄，但今年該業務的成長率可能低於我們其他兩項業務，但這只是反映了其他業務在成長方面擁有不同的機會組合。（聽不清楚）

Great. And then just for my follow-up, we've seen mixed performance in IPOs recently. What's your sense of how sponsors are reacting to the volatility and what do you expect to be the implication of sponsors don't have that option for monetization?

偉大的。然後，作為我的後續報道，我們最近看到 IPO 的表現好壞參半。您如何看待贊助商對波動性的反應？您認為贊助商沒有貨幣化選擇會意味著什麼？

Well, I appreciate the question. And I think it goes back to what I said a few moments ago on the last question. I think it probably feeds into greater interest and deployment of fund continuation vehicles and the like to create liquidity for assets. And probably, at some point, it creates more e-pad for there to be outright sales with companies rather than taking them public.

嗯，我很感謝你提出這個問題。我認為這又回到了我剛才在最後一個問題上所說的內容。我認為它可能會引起更大的興趣並部署基金延續工具等來為資產創造流動性。並且可能在某個時候，它會創造更多的電子平台，以便直接與公司銷售，而不是將它們上市。

And one of the challenges is that there are so many assets that are owned by sponsors that are very large and that still have large amounts of leverage. And as a result, it means that a lot of the primary capital were you to IPO it is likely to go for debt reduction rather than monetization of the GP ownership. And then it means given the size of the business, the long period of time it might take to go public.

其中一個挑戰是，發起人擁有的資產非常龐大，而且仍然具有很大的槓桿作用。因此，這意味著如果你進行 IPO，很多初始資本可能會用於減債，而不是將 GP 所有權貨幣化。這意味著考慮到業務規模，上市可能需要很長的時間。

I mean, to be fully out of the business just as you have future sell-down and just think about the number of companies that are all competing to be taken public and with a somewhat mix record of IPOs, I just think it makes that option less attractive, and it means more M&A of portfolio companies if possible. And to the extent you have companies that are perhaps too large for other sponsors to acquire, I think that fits very, very nicely into the narrative of greater fund continuation activity.

我的意思是，就像你將來會拋售股票一樣，完全退出該業務，想想所有競爭上市的公司數量，以及 IPO 的混合記錄，我認為這會降低該選擇的吸引力，並且如果可能的話，這意味著投資組合公司會進行更多的併購。而且，如果某些公司的規模太大，其他發起人可能無法收購，我認為這非常非常符合更大基金延續活動的敘述。

Brendan O'Brien, Wolfe Research.

奧布萊恩（Brendan O’Brien），沃爾夫研究公司（Wolfe Research）。

To start on your advisory business, you had previously spoken about your expectation that 2024 would be more of a transition year for activity with a more significant acceleration in 2025. And while you're certainly correct on '24, quarter-to-date announced M&A volumes are tracking down about 10% year-on-year. So I just want to get a sense as to what is driving the disconnect between some of the optimistic outlook commentary from you as well as many of your peers and the trends that we're actually seeing in announcements quarter-to-date and when we could actually begin to see activity for the broader industry to begin to accelerate more meaningfully?

首先談到您的顧問業務，您曾表示，您預計 2024 年將是活動的過渡年，2025 年將出現更顯著的加速。雖然你對 24 的預測肯定是正確的，但本季迄今宣布的併購交易量比去年同期下降了約 10%。因此，我只是想了解一下，是什麼導致了您以及您的許多同行的一些樂觀前景評論與我們在本季度迄今為止的公告中實際看到的趨勢之間的脫節，以及我們何時才能真正開始看到整個行業的活動開始更有意義地加速？

Well, first of all, I'm optimistic about our business, and I've always said we're a micro story more than we are a macro story. And I think we have tremendous white space in front of us an opportunity to grow our coverage footprint and to interface with more clients and to serve more clients. And even if volumes are flat, I think our business can grow materially and can do so for an extended period of time. But on the macro, I do believe that we are heading towards a normalization of M&A activity.

首先，我對我們的業務很樂觀，我一直說我們是一個微觀故事，而不是宏觀故事。我認為我們面前有巨大的空白，有機會擴大我們的覆蓋範圍，與更多的客戶互動，為更多的客戶提供服務。即使銷量持平，我認為我們的業務仍能實現實質成長，並且可以持續較長時間。但從宏觀角度來看，我確實相信我們正走向併購活動的正常化。

And if you go back and look at where we've been, was aberrational in terms of level of activity. And I don't suspect we're getting back anytime soon to '21. But after two pushing years of '22 and '23. If you recall, we had a view that it would be a modest slow recovery, and I believe the market ended up approximately 14% in '24. But as I just said a few moments ago, on almost every metric, it is well below historical norms. And we think that there are a lot of constructive conditions that suggest that we should get more of a normalization trade.

如果你回顧我們曾經去過的地方，你會發現那裡的活動水平是不正常的。我認為我們不會很快回到21世紀。但經過22年和23年的兩年努力之後。如果你還記得的話，我們曾經認為這將是一個溫和緩慢的復甦，我相信市場在 24 年最終會上漲約 14%。但正如我剛才所說，幾乎所有指標都遠低於歷史標準。我們認為，有許多建設性條件顯示我們應該進行更多的正常化貿易。

And that's not just a '25 -- '24 -- I mean, sorry, '25 phenomenon, but that's '25 and continuing. Now as far as the data, everybody has their own data sources. When I look at January, I'd make two observations. Number one is January typically a slow month for activity levels. And if you go back 10 years and you take January and you multiply it by 12, I think 7 out of 10 or 8 out of 10 times, you end up with an annualized level that's less than what the actual year is. So I don't want to make too much of (inaudible). That would be number one.

這不僅僅是 25 年或 24 年的現象，抱歉，我的意思是 25 年的現象，但這是 25 年的現象，並且會持續下去。現在就數據而言，每個人都有自己的數據來源。當我回顧一月時，我有兩個觀察。第一，一月通常是活動量較低的月份。如果你回顧 10 年前的一月份，然後將其乘以 12，我認為 10 次中有 7 次或 8 次，你得到的年化程度會低於實際年份的水平。所以我不想做太多（聽不清楚）。那將是最重要的。

Number two, I actually think that January, if you just look at the month of January, it was marginally up from a year ago. So I don't take much stock one way or the (inaudible) I do recognize, though, that the news flow that we're experiencing every day as it relates to tariffs and the like, it will sometime to clarify. And I do think that is having a short-term impact in my expectation is this is the storm before the come. And I think that being the case, I would expect that as we get further into the year, you're likely to see an acceleration of activity. And I think a lot of the debates we're having are how much better than the baseline of 2024.

第二，我認為，如果只看一月份，一月份的銷售額比去年同期略有上升。因此，我不會過多關注某種方式或（聽不清楚）但我確實認識到，我們每天所經歷的與關稅等有關的新聞流，有時會得到澄清。我確實認為這會產生短期影響，我預計這是暴風雨來臨前的一場風暴。我認為，既然如此，我預計，隨著時間的推移，您可能會看到活動加速。我認為我們正在進行的許多爭論都是關於比 2024 年的基準好多​​少。

So while we can debate how restrictive antitrust review will be competition commission valuation of deals what I think almost everyone kind of ran has taken in its entirety, it's going to be more favorable than what we experienced in '24. We can just debate the magnitude of it. So I continue to think we're in a multiyear normalization trade here because there are a whole host of companies who are quite desirous to to transform their businesses. They either need to be out of certain businesses where they no longer are scale players or they need to double down.

因此，雖然我們可以爭論反壟斷審查將對競爭委員會對交易的估值有多嚴格，但我認為幾乎每個人都已經完全接受了它，它將比我們在24年經歷的更為有利。我們只能討論其重要性。因此我仍然認為我們正處於多年的正常化貿易中，因為有許多公司非常渴望轉變他們的業務。他們要么需要退出某些他們不再具有規模優勢的行業，要么需要加倍下注。

I think there's a more favorable environment in this administration than there was in the last administration. I think at some point, it's less an issue about where rates are and more an appreciation that the rate environment is likely to stay. And when people talk about a rate is too high or rates too low, I think what they miss is the most difficult time to do M&A is when rates are high and everyone thinks they're coming down because when everyone thinks they're coming down, sellers don't sell.

我認為本屆政府的環境比上一屆政府更有利。我認為，在某種程度上，這並不是一個關於利率在哪裡的問題，而是一個關於利率環境是否可能持續下去的認識問題。當人們談論利率過高或過低時，我認為他們忽略了進行併購最困難的時期是當利率很高而每個人都認為利率會下降的時候，因為當每個人都認為利率會下降時，賣家就不會出售。

And where we're getting to now is probably a new normal. So all of this, in my mind, to a normalization trade, but I'm not counting on a runway here in 2025, but I still have every expectation it will be an up year, and it will be just another continuation of that normalization.

我們現在所處的境況可能是一種新常態。所以，在我看來，所有這些都是正常化交易，但我並不指望 2025 年會出現這樣的情況，但我仍然完全預期這將是一個上升的一年，這將是這種正常化的另一個延續。

That's helpful. And for my follow-up, also, I guess, on the Strategic Advisory business, Paul, when you entered last year with what you I believe (inaudible) as an abnormally depressed backlog, but you were able to deliver a record result in Strategic Advisory which would imply that you've seen a pretty significant improvement in the velocity or the turnover of that backlog. So it would be great to get a sense as to where we are today in terms of time to close transactions relative to what you would categorize as a more normal level? And given many of your peers have continue to cite this elongation of deal time lines. Why would you be seeing a more significant improvement here relative to your peers?

這很有幫助。保羅，我想問一下關於策略諮詢業務的後續問題，去年您進入的時候，我認為（聽不清楚）積壓訂單異常低迷，但您在策略諮詢方面取得了創紀錄的成績，這意味著您看到積壓訂單的速度或週轉率有了相當顯著的改善。因此，我們希望了解我們目前完成交易的時間相對於您認為的更正常水平的情況，是什麼樣的情況？鑑於許多同行繼續引用這一延長交易時間表的說法。為什麼你會看到與你的同行相比更顯著的進步？

I mean I can't really comment on anyone other than ourselves. We came in the last year with a historically low level of announced pending close, but I also said that we had a very robust pre-announced pipeline. And I think what ended up happening was we had a lot of transactions that had yet to be announced that were announced relatively early in the year and completed during the year.

我的意思是，除了我們自己以外，我無法對任何人發表評論。去年，我們宣布的待完成交易數量處於歷史最低水平，但我也說過，我們擁有非常強勁的預先宣布的管道。我認為最終發生的情況是，我們有很多尚未宣布的交易，這些交易在今年年初就已宣布，並在年內完成。

And we had a very broad base of assignments. And there weren't that many very large deals that closed in the year for us. I think we have a much bigger backlog of large transactions that we expect to close in. So that's kind of our story. And you are correct that as the year when we became more optimistic about '24, we've always been optimistic about '25 and beyond, that continues. But I think we had an added bonus that we were able to deliver record results in 2024.

我們的任務範圍非常廣泛。我們今年完成的大型交易並不多。我認為，我們還有大量的大額交易積壓，我們預計將完成這些交易。這就是我們的故事。您說得對，當我們對 2024 年變得更加樂觀時，我們對 2025 年及以後也一直充滿樂觀，這種樂觀將會持續下去。但我認為我們還有一個額外的好處，那就是我們能夠在 2024 年取得創紀錄的成績。

Aidan Hall, KBW.

艾丹·霍爾（Aidan Hall），KBW。

Maybe just a follow up on Brendan's question, but more on the kind of backlog of activity for restructuring. It sounds like the pipeline for advisory is considerably higher Park Hill and kind of both lines of business there continues to see strong momentum. But curious how you would characterize like the restructuring backlog relative to maybe this time last year? So like flat or slightly lower? Anything to kind of help contextualize that would be appreciated.

也許只是對布倫丹問題的後續回答，但更多的是關於重組活動積壓的類型。聽起來，Park Hill 的諮詢管道相當豐富，而且那裡的兩條業務線都繼續保持強勁勢頭。但令人好奇的是，您如何描述相對於去年同期的重組積壓情況？那麼是持平還是略低一點？任何能夠幫助闡明這一情況的信息都將受到讚賞。

I just say broadly consistent. I mean we were quite active last year. We're quite active now. We think we're in a multiyear period of extended activity. And if you go back, I think most of the investor concerns about that business for us was that it was somehow come plummeting back to earth. And we've said consistently, that's not the case. That continues not to be the case.

我只是說大體一致。我的意思是我們去年非常活躍。我們現在非常活躍。我們認為我們正處於一個多年的延長活動期。如果你回顧一下，我想大多數投資者對我們這項業務的擔憂是，它會以某種方式直線下降。我們一直強調，事實並非如此。但事實仍然並非如此。

But when year in and year out, you're delivering record results. It's very hard to calibrate. Is it going to be either record? It may well be. I'm not suggesting that it couldn't be. I'm just not prepared to tell you it will be. And what I am prepared to tell you is that it's very robust activity we are a market leader. And as I look at the macro conditions out there, I don't see them becoming less hospitable to liability management.

但年復一年，你不斷取得創紀錄的成績。校準起來非常困難。這會是任何一項記錄嗎？很有可能。我並不是說這不可能。我只是還沒準備好告訴你它會發生。我想告訴你們的是，我們是市場的領導者，我們的活動非常活躍。當我觀察外面的宏觀環境時，我並不認為它們對負債管理的有利條件會降低。

Got it. Okay. I appreciate that color. Maybe just as my follow-up on the talent and the outlook for 2025. I appreciate you guys have a lot of white space in advisory, but any main areas of focus you're trying to really focus on right now or teams that you think you're on the cusp of being a critical mass that you may need a couple more bankers in. And then just as a base case, any way to be thinking about hiring expectations in '25?

知道了。好的。我很欣賞那個顏色。也許只是我對人才和2025年展望的後續關注。我很欣賞你們在諮詢方面有很多空白，但你現在真正關注的主要關注領域或你認為即將達到臨界規模的團隊，你可能需要更多的銀行家加入。然後，作為基本情況，有沒有辦法考慮 25 年的招募預期？

Look, on the hiring expectations, we've got the micro is helping us and the macro is hurting us. So the micro is, I think every day that goes by, that we deliver success and we deliver success for clients and that we have more folks who come over from other platforms and see that this is a differentiated platform. It's a better place to work and is better positioned to support their clients. It just makes our story easier. So every day that goes by, we have an easier story to communicate to potential hires.

你看，就招募預期而言，微觀因素在幫助我們，宏觀因素在傷害我們。所以微觀方面，我認為隨著時間的流逝，我們都在為客戶帶來成功，也有更多的人從其他平台過來，看到這是一個差異化的平台。這是一個更好的工作場所並且能夠更好地為客戶提供支援。這只會讓我們的故事變得更簡單。因此，每過一天，我們就有一個更容易與潛在員工溝通的故事。

I've also said, though, that when the world heats up, that makes it harder from a macro perspective for talent to leave their incumbent position, whether they're happy or not, just because when they're sitting at top a lot of activity, no one really enjoyed is having to take their gardening leave and the like. So I think we've got the micro tailwinds. We have the macro headwinds. That's one of the reasons why we were so focused on continuing the recruiting and the depths of the M&A market in '22 and '23, we're going to continue to do it.

不過，我也說過，當全球氣候變暖時，從宏觀角度來看，人才離開現任職位會變得更加困難，不管他們是否高興，因為當他們坐在高層時，有很多活動，沒有人真正喜歡不得不休假之類的。所以我認為我們已經獲得了微順風。我們面臨宏觀逆風。這就是我們如此專注於在22年和23年繼續招募和深入併購市場的原因之一，我們將繼續這樣做。

We have a long pipeline of highly attractive candidates that we're in discussions with. And I expect to see meaningful conversions with those, but the timing and pacing of that is hard to know. And as far as where we have white space, me my sort of answer is pretty clear. It's almost everywhere. There's almost no place where we wouldn't benefit from more tower. If you have a firm that's built on intellectual capital, well number one is make sure you have more intellectual capital and better intellectual capital than anywhere else. That is our investment philosophy, and that is unchanging.

我們擁有一群極具吸引力的候選人正在與他們洽談。我希望看到這些有意義的轉變，但其時間和節奏很難知道。至於哪裡有空白，我的答案非常明確。它幾乎無所不在。幾乎沒有任何地方不能從更多的塔中受益。如果你的公司是建立在智力資本之上的，那麼首要的事情就是確保你擁有比其他地方更多的智力資本和更好的智力資本。這是我們的投資理念，是永遠不變的。

hat concludes our question-and-answer period. I would now like to turn the call back over to Mr. Taubman for closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在我想將發言權交還給陶布曼先生，請他作最後發言。

Once again, we thank everyone for their interest in our company and their support, and we look forward to doing this again in three months when we report our first quarter results. Thank you all very much.

我們再次感謝大家對我們公司的關注和支持，我們期待三個月後報告第一季業績時再次這樣做。非常感謝大家。