Pinterest Inc (PINS) 2021 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us. Welcome to today's Pinterest Fourth Quarter Earnings Conference Call. My name is Jordan, and I'll be coordinating your call today. (Operator Instructions)

下午好，感謝您加入我們。歡迎來到今天的 Pinterest 第四季度收益電話會議。我的名字是喬丹，今天我會協調你的電話。 （操作員說明）

I'm now going to hand over to Neil Doshi, Head of Investor Relations to begin. Neil, please go ahead.

我現在將由投資者關係主管 Neil Doshi 開始。尼爾，請繼續。

Thank you, Jordan. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us. Welcome to Pinterest's Earnings Call for the Fourth Quarter and Full Year ended December 31, 2021. I'm Neil Doshi, Head of Investor Relations for Pinterest. Joining me today on the call are Ben Silbermann, Pinterest's President and CEO; and Todd Morgenfeld, our Chief Financial Officer and Head of Business Operations.

謝謝你，喬丹。下午好，感謝您加入我們。歡迎參加 Pinterest 截至 2021 年 12 月 31 日的第四季度和全年財報電話會議。我是 Pinterest 投資者關係主管 Neil Doshi。今天和我一起參加電話會議的是 Pinterest 總裁兼首席執行官 Ben Silbermann；以及我們的首席財務官兼業務運營主管 Todd Morgenfeld。

Now I'll cover the safe harbor. Some of the statements that we make today regarding our performance, operations and outlook, including the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, may be considered forward-looking, and such statements involve a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially. In addition, our results, trends and outlook for Q1 2022 and beyond are preliminary and are not an indication of future performance.

現在我將覆蓋安全港。我們今天就我們的業績、運營和前景（包括 COVID-19 大流行的影響）所做的一些陳述可能被視為前瞻性陳述，此類陳述涉及許多可能導致實際結果不同的風險和不確定性重大。此外，我們對 2022 年第一季度及以後的業績、趨勢和展望是初步的，並不代表未來的表現。

We are making these forward-looking statements based on information available to us as of today, and we disclaim any duty to update them later unless required by law. For more information, please refer to the risk factors discussed in our most recent forms 10-Q and 10-K filed with the SEC and available on the Investor Relations section of our website.

我們根據截至今天獲得的信息做出這些前瞻性陳述，除非法律要求，否則我們不承擔以後更新這些陳述的義務。有關更多信息，請參閱我們最近提交給 SEC 的 10-Q 和 10-K 表格中討論的風險因素，這些風險因素可在我們網站的投資者關係部分獲得。

During this call, we will present both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. A reconciliation of non-GAAP to GAAP measures is included in today's earnings press release and letter to shareholders, which are distributed and available to the public through our Investor Relations website located at investor.pinterestinc.com.

在本次電話會議中，我們將介紹 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標。非 GAAP 與 GAAP 措施的對賬包含在今天的收益新聞稿和致股東的信函中，通過我們位於investor.pinterestinc.com 的投資者關係網站向公眾分發和提供。

And now I'll turn the call over to Ben.

現在我將把電話轉給本。

Thanks, Neil, and hi, everyone. Thank you for joining the call.

謝謝，尼爾，大家好。感謝您加入通話。

2021 was an important year for Pinterest. We remain laser-focused on helping everyone get inspiration for their lives and building a dedicated space online to plan and create their features. We believe that the demand for a positive place to plan your future will only continue to grow over the long term. That's why we spent the past year investing heavily in evolving how we inspire Pinners by building a new publishing platform for creators. We believe that when we connect Pinners, not just with great ideas but also with the great creators behind them, in rich new formats like short-form video, the overall experience is more inspirational. And when people are more inspired, they do more planning and shopping. Advertisers are able to reach consumers with more intent and that, in turn, drives more value for Pinterest.

2021 年對 Pinterest 來說是重要的一年。我們始終專注於幫助每個人獲得生活靈感，並在網上建立一個專門的空間來規劃和創造他們的特色。我們相信，從長遠來看，對規劃未來的積極場所的需求只會繼續增長。這就是為什麼我們在過去的一年裡投入巨資，通過為創作者建立一個新的發布平台來改進我們如何激勵 Pinner。我們相信，當我們將 Pinner 與偉大的想法以及他們背後的偉大創作者聯繫在一起時，以豐富的新格式（如短片視頻），整體體驗更具啟發性。當人們受到更多啟發時，他們會進行更多的計劃和購物。廣告商能夠以更多的意圖接觸消費者，進而為 Pinterest 帶來更多價值。

In 2021, we made our publishing tools available in 37 markets and launched 150 new features, many which were released in October. So it's still very early, but we're already seeing signs of promise, specifically a rise in session frequency and time spent from people who followed multiple creators. This supports our hypothesis that our investments in native content can be engagement accretive over time. We believe that with sustained investment, we'll see these trends grow as more and more Pinners find and follow creators they love.

2021 年，我們在 37 個市場推出了我們的發布工具，並推出了 150 項新功能，其中許多是在 10 月發布的。所以現在還為時尚早，但我們已經看到了希望的跡象，特別是關注多個創作者的人的會話頻率和花費的時間有所增加。這支持了我們的假設，即我們對原生內容的投資可以隨著時間的推移增加參與度。我們相信，通過持續的投資，我們將看到這些趨勢隨著越來越多的 Pinner 找到並關注他們喜愛的創作者而發展。

We know we're building this new platform in a challenging environment. In Q4, we saw monthly active users decrease 6% year-over-year to 431 million. This was primarily due to the continued unwinding of the pandemic, lower traffic coming from search and increasing competition for user attention. We're clear-eyed about these recent headwinds, and we believe that over the long term, our new publishing platform will deepen engagement by Pinners. We're also continuing to improve the core experience to help surface the most relevant content at the right time.

我們知道我們正在一個充滿挑戰的環境中構建這個新平台。在第四季度，我們看到每月活躍用戶同比下降 6% 至 4.31 億。這主要是由於大流行的持續緩解、來自搜索的流量減少以及對用戶注意力的競爭加劇。我們對最近的這些不利因素很清楚，我們相信從長遠來看，我們的新發布平台將加深 Pinners 的參與。我們還在繼續改進核心體驗，以幫助在正確的時間顯示最相關的內容。

With shopping, we're building a more dedicated experience to help people discover and buy what they love as well as expanding our test of seamless checkout. We're also working to improve the advertiser experience. Helping them optimize their budgets and more effectively measure performance with the changing privacy landscape. And we're working to build on the business milestones we achieved in 2021, where we surpassed $2 billion in revenue for the year growing revenue 52% over the previous year. We also posted our first full year of GAAP profitability.

通過購物，我們正在打造更加專注的體驗，以幫助人們發現和購買他們喜愛的商品，並擴大我們對無縫結賬的測試。我們還在努力改善廣告客戶的體驗。幫助他們優化預算並在不斷變化的隱私環境中更有效地衡量績效。我們正在努力在 2021 年實現的業務里程碑基礎上再接再厲，我們在這一年的收入超過了 20 億美元，收入比上一年增長了 52%。我們還公佈了第一個全年的 GAAP 盈利能力。

Our aspiration is to build an end-to-end platform that gives people great inspiration and the tools to buy, to make and to do those ideas for their lives, all in the space that's both positive and encouraging. We believe that the world needs this, and that's why we're increasing our investment to build it, and I'm confident that our team is up to the task.

我們的願望是建立一個端到端的平台，為人們提供巨大的靈感和工具，讓他們為他們的生活購買、製作和實現這些想法，所有這些都在積極和鼓舞人心的空間中。我們相信世界需要這個，這就是我們增加投資來建造它的原因，我相信我們的團隊能夠勝任這項任務。

So now I'll turn it over to Todd who will share more.

所以現在我會把它交給 Todd，他會分享更多。

Thanks, Ben. I'll share some further details on the trends that we saw in the fourth quarter and provide a preliminary outlook for the first quarter of 2022.

謝謝，本。我將分享一些關於我們在第四季度看到的趨勢的更多細節，並提供 2022 年第一季度的初步展望。

We were pleased with the financial results that we delivered in the fourth quarter. Revenue grew 20% year-over-year to $847 million with an adjusted EBITDA margin of 41%. While most of the details about our financial performance are in our shareholder letter, I'd like to provide some additional color. Strength in the quarter came from large retailers, midsized and managed small advertisers and international markets. This was offset by muted demand from CPG advertisers, who continue to face pressure from supply chain issues. Furthermore, with the continued distribution and placement of Idea Pins during the quarter, we estimate that the negative impact to our fourth quarter year-over-year revenue growth was in the mid-single digits, similar to the third quarter. This impact was factored into our guidance for the fourth quarter.

我們對第四季度的財務業績感到滿意。收入同比增長 20% 至 8.47 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 41%。雖然關於我們財務業績的大部分細節都在我們的股東信中，但我想提供一些額外的顏色。本季度的強勢來自大型零售商、中型和管理型小型廣告商以及國際市場。這被 CPG 廣告商的低迷需求所抵消，他們繼續面臨來自供應鏈問題的壓力。此外，隨著本季度 Idea Pins 的持續分發和放置，我們估計對我們第四季度同比收入增長的負面影響在中個位數，與第三季度相似。這種影響已納入我們對第四季度的指導。

I wanted to take a couple of minutes to discuss fourth quarter engagement, particularly in the U.S. Our U.S. monthly active users declined 12% year-over-year to 86 million, primarily due to pandemic easing relative to the year ago quarter. We also believe that time spent on competing video app platforms contributed to the year-on-year declines.

我想花幾分鐘討論第四季度的參與度，尤其是在美國。我們的美國月活躍用戶同比下降 12% 至 8600 萬，主要是由於大流行相對於去年同期有所緩解。我們還認為，花在競爭視頻應用平台上的時間導致同比下降。

Furthermore, our monthly active users were negatively impacted from lower search traffic due to Google's November algorithm updates. In fact, more than half of the Q3 to Q4 sequential decline in U.S. monthly active users was attributable to Google's algorithm updates starting in mid-November. We're examining the overall impact from recent search algorithm changes as it appears to be more persistent than we've seen historically. Our teams are working diligently to understand this, but it may take some time.

此外，由於谷歌 11 月的算法更新，我們的月度活躍用戶受到搜索流量下降的負面影響。事實上，美國每月活躍用戶的第三季度至第四季度連續下降的一半以上歸因於谷歌從 11 月中旬開始的算法更新。我們正在研究最近的搜索算法變化帶來的整體影響，因為它似乎比我們以往看到的更加持久。我們的團隊正在努力理解這一點，但這可能需要一些時間。

Looking at users by platform, U.S. monthly active users coming to Pinterest from the web, desktop and mobile web declined around 30% year-over-year while U.S. monthly active users coming to Pinterest from mobile apps, who account for a significant majority of our impressions and our revenue, declined around 6% year-over-year.

從平台用戶來看，美國從網絡、桌面和移動網絡訪問 Pinterest 的月度活躍用戶同比下降約 30%，而從移動應用訪問 Pinterest 的美國月度活躍用戶占我們的絕大部分展示次數和我們的收入同比下降約 6%。

We're taking a number of steps to increase engagement on Pinterest. First, we're investing in native video content in a creator-led content ecosystem. In the long run, we believe that this can be engagement and revenue accretive. As Ben mentioned, the early data make us cautiously optimistic, but bending the curve on overall engagement will require us to scale this effort with sustained execution over several quarters.

我們正在採取一些措施來提高 Pinterest 的參與度。首先，我們在以創作者為主導的內容生態系統中投資原生視頻內容。從長遠來看，我們相信這可以增加參與度和收入。正如 Ben 所提到的，早期數據使我們保持謹慎樂觀，但彎曲整體參與度曲線將需要我們在幾個季度內通過持續執行來擴大這項工作。

In the near term, we plan to invest in our core discovery and planning engines to provide our users with a richer, even more personalized experience across our various surfaces. We plan to apply more data and larger models to our sophisticated machine learning stack to help with content recommendations, home feed personalization and an improved search experience for existing, previous and new users who come to Pinterest.

在短期內，我們計劃投資於我們的核心發現和規劃引擎，以便為我們的用戶提供更豐富、更個性化的體驗。我們計劃將更多的數據和更大的模型應用到我們複雜的機器學習堆棧中，以幫助提供內容推薦、主頁個性化以及改善 Pinterest 現有用戶、以前用戶和新用戶的搜索體驗。

Turning to our preliminary outlook for Q1. In my remarks last quarter, I noted that engagement trends on Pinterest had not yet returned to prepandemic norms, specifically to the mix of at-home versus out-of-home use cases that we saw in 2019. In Q4, these trends began to normalize. For example, the propensity of Pinners to adopt use cases like home decor or cooking in the fourth quarter of 2021 was similar to what we saw in the fourth quarter of 2019.

轉向我們對第一季度的初步展望。在我上個季度的講話中，我注意到 Pinterest 上的參與趨勢尚未恢復到大流行前的規範，特別是我們在 2019 年看到的在家與戶外使用案例的混合。在第四季度，這些趨勢開始規範化。例如，Pinner 在 2021 年第四季度採用家居裝飾或烹飪等用例的傾向與我們在 2019 年第四季度看到的相似。

As we revert to our prepandemic use case mix, we expect that the pandemic unwind will be a less meaningful engagement headwind as we move through 2022, particularly after mid-March when we will lap the widespread easing of lockdown restrictions. That said, engagement headwinds from search algorithm changes and from time spent on competing platforms are more persistent and could potentially disrupt normal seasonal trends.

當我們恢復到大流行前的用例組合時，我們預計隨著我們進入 2022 年，特別是在 3 月中旬之後，我們將廣泛放鬆鎖定限制，大流行的緩解將成為一個不那麼有意義的參與逆風。也就是說，搜索算法變化和在競爭平台上花費的時間帶來的參與逆風更加持久，可能會破壞正常的季節性趨勢。

Given this context, we think it's most helpful to tell you where we -- what we know today. As of Tuesday, February 1, U.S. monthly active users were approximately 86.6 million and global monthly active users were approximately 436.8 million. On the revenue side, we expect Q1 revenue to grow in the high teens on a percentage basis year-over-year.

鑑於這種情況，我們認為告訴你我們在哪裡——我們今天所知道的最有幫助。截至 2 月 1 日星期二，美國月活躍用戶約為 8660 萬，全球月活躍用戶約為 4.368 億。在收入方面，我們預計第一季度的收入將同比增長百分比。

Please note that our Q1 revenue guide takes into account a few considerations. First, the macro environment remains challenging for our CPG advertisers who are still dealing with supply chain and other macroeconomic issues. We believe this headwind could persist for a few quarters.

請注意，我們的第一季度收入指南考慮了一些因素。首先，對於仍在處理供應鍊和其他宏觀經濟問題的 CPG 廣告客戶而言，宏觀環境仍然充滿挑戰。我們相信這種逆風可能會持續幾個季度。

Second, we continue to monitor the impact that higher CPAs could have on our more price-sensitive advertisers. There are some exogenous factors that appear to be resulting in higher CPAs, including overall demand for digital ads from advertisers. On Pinterest, specifically, if engagement declines continue, we could eventually expect to see some constraints on our monetizable supply and, in turn, higher CPAs. This supply constraint is not something that we're seeing today, but we're monitoring it carefully. At the same time, we're investing in a number of opportunities to monetize our existing supply and to help advertisers achieve their goals.

其次，我們會繼續監控更高的每次轉化費用可能對我們對價格更敏感的廣告商產生的影響。有一些外生因素似乎導致了更高的 CPA，包括廣告商對數字廣告的總體需求。具體來說，在 Pinterest 上，如果參與度繼續下降，我們最終可能會看到我們的可貨幣化供應受到一些限制，反過來，CPA 也會更高。這種供應限制不是我們今天看到的，但我們正在仔細監控它。與此同時，我們正在投資一些機會來利用我們現有的供應獲利並幫助廣告商實現他們的目標。

Third, our investment in Idea Pins and native video content will likely be a modest headwind to revenue in future quarters as it was in Q4. However, we believe that Idea Pins will be both engagement and revenue accretive over time.

第三，我們對 Idea Pins 和原生視頻內容的投資可能會像第四季度一樣在未來幾個季度對收入構成適度的不利影響。然而，我們相信，隨著時間的推移，Idea Pins 的參與度和收入都會增加。

Finally, I want to touch on expenses. Non-GAAP operating expenses in the fourth quarter grew 27% year-over-year. This year, we plan to accelerate our investments in the business in accordance with our key strategic priorities of inspiring content, shopping, our Pinner experience and advertiser success. We expect our first quarter non-GAAP operating expenses to grow around 10% quarter-over-quarter sequentially. As we continue to scale our investments in our native content ecosystem, our core Pinner experience and headcount across research and development and sales and marketing.

最後，我想談談費用。第四季度非 GAAP 運營費用同比增長 27%。今年，我們計劃根據激發內容、購物、我們的 Pinner 體驗和廣告客戶成功的關鍵戰略優先事項加快對業務的投資。我們預計我們的第一季度非公認會計原則運營費用將環比增長約 10%。隨著我們繼續擴大對原生內容生態系統的投資，我們在研發、銷售和營銷方面的核心 Pinner 經驗和員工人數。

For the full year, we expect non-GAAP operating expenses to grow around 40% year-over-year. The sequencing of that spend may change from quarter-to-quarter, but we'd suggest you look at the quarterly growth cadence in 2021 as a likely template.

全年，我們預計非 GAAP 運營費用將同比增長約 40%。該支出的順序可能會因季度而異，但我們建議您將 2021 年的季度增長節奏視為可能的模板。

Thank you to our teams at Pinterest, our advertising partners, our creators and all the people that come to Pinterest to find inspiration. And with that, we can open it up for questions.

感謝我們在 Pinterest 的團隊、我們的廣告合作夥伴、我們的創作者以及所有來到 Pinterest 尋找靈感的人。有了這個，我們可以打開它來提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Ross Sandler of Barclays.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自巴克萊的羅斯桑德勒。

Well, there's not really a nice way to ask this, so I'll just kind of ask it anyway, but there's been some recent press reports that pointed to a number of senior executives leaving the company recently. So can you just comment on what's going on with that? Is that not accurate? And how do you feel about the senior management ranks as we look at your agenda in '22?

好吧，這並不是一個很好的提問方式，所以無論如何我都會問一下，但最近有一些媒體報導指出，一些高級管理人員最近離開了公司。所以你能評論一下這是怎麼回事嗎？這不准確嗎？當我們查看您在 22 年的議程時，您對高級管理人員的看法如何？

And then you guys said that the Watch tab is one of the fastest-growing products in history. So any way to just put some numbers around how big this could be in '22? Is it still a little too early? Or are you expecting this to be a needle mover in terms of engagement?

然後你們說手錶標籤是歷史上增長最快的產品之一。那麼，有什麼方法可以在 22 年將一些數字放在這可能有多大？是不是有點太早了？還是您希望這在參與度方面成為推動者？

Sure, Ross. I'll take a few questions in turn. So first of all, taking a step back, a lot of people are coming out of the pandemic, and then they're reassessing their careers. And so along with many companies, we see what some people are calling a great employee reshuffle. But based on conversations with some of our peers, we believe that our attrition rate is roughly in line with others. I'd also remind everyone that we've been hiring pretty aggressively. We grew our headcount by 27% over the last year.

當然，羅斯。我會依次回答幾個問題。因此，首先，退後一步，很多人正在擺脫大流行，然後他們正在重新評估自己的職業。因此，與許多公司一樣，我們看到了一些人所說的偉大的員工改組。但根據與一些同行的對話，我們認為我們的流失率與其他人大致一致。我還要提醒大家，我們一直在非常積極地招聘。去年，我們的員工人數增加了 27%。

The tech has covered -- our tech press has covered some recent departures, and many of the folks in articles that were named are people that joined pre-IPO several years ago. They joined a relatively small private company. They made an incredible contribution. I'm grateful for what they've done. And I'm excited for a lot of them to take their next step in bigger roles at smaller companies or in some cases, changing industries entirely.

技術已經報導了——我們的技術媒體報導了一些最近的離職，文章中提到的許多人都是幾年前加入 pre-IPO 的人。他們加入了一家規模相對較小的私人公司。他們做出了不可思議的貢獻。我很感激他們所做的。我很高興他們中的很多人在小公司中擔任更大的角色，或者在某些情況下，完全改變行業。

I'd also say that we just have an amazing bench of talent here at Pinterest, and this provides our existing employees that you have to take on more responsibility and to step in new leadership roles, which we're just thrilled about. Finally, we've been able to welcome some great senior talents in new areas where we're making investments, including shopping and content. So that's kind of the story there.

我還要說的是，我們在 Pinterest 擁有一批驚人的人才，這為我們現有的員工提供了你必須承擔更多責任並擔任新的領導角色的機會，我們對此感到非常興奮。最後，我們已經能夠在我們正在投資的新領域（包括購物和內容）中歡迎一些優秀的高級人才。這就是那裡的故事。

Your second question is about the Watch tab. What I'd say is that we're not breaking out engagement by surface just yet, but we're really optimistic, even though it's early days on the creator effort in general and in the Watch tab specifically.

您的第二個問題是關於 Watch 選項卡的。我想說的是，我們還沒有打破表面上的參與，但我們真的很樂觀，儘管創作者的努力總體上處於早期階段，特別是在“觀看”選項卡中。

And I would just remind folks why we're making the investment and why we're excited about it. The first reason we're making an investment really comes down to the core value proposition on Pinterest, which is to provide inspiration. And we think short-form video and connecting people with real creators is just an enormous opportunity to advance that vision in new ways. Short-from video is being adopted all over the industry. But today, what we see from most of our competitors is that the innovation on short-form video has been focused on entertainment, while Pinterest is more focused on providing inspiring and useful experiences that can help people get ideas and then actually realize them by making, by buying or by doing something in real life.

我只想提醒人們我們為什麼要進行投資以及為什麼我們對此感到興奮。我們進行投資的第一個原因實際上歸結為 Pinterest 的核心價值主張，即提供靈感。我們認為短視頻和將人們與真正的創作者聯繫起來只是一個以新方式推進這一願景的巨大機會。整個行業都在採用短視頻。但今天，我們從大多數競爭對手那裡看到的是，短視頻的創新一直專注於娛樂，而 Pinterest 更專注於提供鼓舞人心和有用的體驗，幫助人們獲得想法，然後通過製作，通過購買或在現實生活中做某事。

The second reason that we're excited is we think that over time, the creator's effort can increase both time spent on the platform, but also the frequency with which people visit. People often come to Pinterest when something is going on in their life. They might want to remodel their home, they might want to take on a new life project or plan a trip, and that's fantastic, but the engagement tends to be more periodic.

我們感到興奮的第二個原因是，我們認為隨著時間的推移，創作者的努力可以增加在平台上花費的時間，以及人們訪問的頻率。人們經常在生活中發生一些事情時來到 Pinterest。他們可能想要改造他們的家，他們可能想要承擔一個新的生活項目或計劃一次旅行，這很棒，但訂婚往往更具週期性。

If you look at a lot of the largest platforms in the world, they're either social networks with a strong messaging component, which pulls you back or they have some sort of published subscribed mechanism between creators and their audiences. And up until late last year, Pinterest had neither. It was really buoyed by the utility of the platform. We think by connecting people to inspiring creators who can share their passions and their ideas every day. Over the long term, that can shift. So we're in really early days, but we're excited about both improving the core experience for users and the net impact it will have on the business.

如果您查看世界上許多最大的平台，它們要么是具有強大消息傳遞組件的社交網絡，這會將您拉回來，要么它們在創作者和他們的觀眾之間具有某種已發布的訂閱機制。直到去年年底，Pinterest 都沒有。該平台的實用性確實為它提供了支持。我們的想法是通過將人們與鼓舞人心的創作者聯繫起來，他們每天都可以分享他們的激情和想法。從長遠來看，這種情況可能會發生變化。所以我們還處於早期階段，但我們對改善用戶的核心體驗以及它將對業務產生的淨影響感到興奮。

Our next question comes from Eric Sheridan of Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的 Eric Sheridan。

Maybe 2, if I can. As we exit '21, I'd love to look back and reflect on some of the learnings you had from some of the international expansion efforts, both on the investment side and building out versus what you've seen as monetization has started to come through in some of those international markets. And then the release, you talked a little bit about some of the markets you're expanding into in '22. Can we again frame it in terms of like what some of those investments might be versus what you see as some of the market opportunities, especially in a market the size of Japan?

也許2，如果可以的話。當我們退出 21 世紀時，我很樂意回顧並反思您從一些國際擴張努力中獲得的一些經驗，無論是在投資方面還是在建設方面，與您所看到的貨幣化已經開始到來通過其中一些國際市場。然後發布，您談到了您在 22 年擴展的一些市場。我們能否再次根據其中一些投資可能是什麼與您認為的一些市場機會來構建它，特別是在日本這樣規模的市場中？

Yes, thanks, Eric. It's a great question because we're obviously one of the biggest growth drivers. And clearest opportunity is for us to continue the momentum we've had with our great traction with revenue performance is through international markets. I think the thing that we -- it starts with building a great team. We have some tremendous country leaders. We have some great sales leadership, and I'm really excited about the folks that we brought on board. We've had a lot of hiring over the last year, and we've just done a great job of bringing the right people into Pinterest with the right leadership team. So that's one.

是的，謝謝，埃里克。這是一個很好的問題，因為我們顯然是最大的增長動力之一。對我們來說，最明顯的機會是通過國際市場繼續保持我們在收入表現方面的巨大吸引力。我認為我們——從建立一支偉大的團隊開始。我們有一些了不起的國家領導人。我們有一些出色的銷售領導，我對我們帶來的人感到非常興奮。去年我們招聘了很多人，而且我們剛剛完成了一項出色的工作，通過合適的領導團隊將合適的人帶入 Pinterest。所以這是一個。

More broadly, we often get the question, why weren't we monetizing internationally quicker? And part of the reason was we wanted to get the user experience and the advertising experience right, both for our Pinners and to make sure we are delivering great results to our advertisers when we started to monetize internationally. And that's what we've done. We've proven that our full funnel advertising platform works in the U.S.

更廣泛地說，我們經常會遇到這樣的問題，為什麼我們沒有更快地在國際上貨幣化？部分原因是我們希望為我們的 Pinner 提供正確的用戶體驗和廣告體驗，並確保在我們開始在國際上貨幣化時為我們的廣告商提供出色的結果。這就是我們所做的。我們已經證明我們的全渠道廣告平台在美國有效。

We've built the right ad tech stack against that. We have the right go-to-market model and the right coverage model that we've built out in the U.S. And what we've been able to do internationally is start to replicate the same trends. There's a lot of learning and a lot of education and sales that needs to happen because of the nature of this platform.

我們為此建立了正確的廣告技術堆棧。我們在美國建立了正確的上市模式和正確的覆蓋模式。我們能夠在國際上做的是開始復制相同的趨勢。由於這個平台的性質，需要進行大量的學習、大量的教育和銷售。

What we found -- and you've asked questions in the past about which kinds of advertisers find success on Pinterest. What we've learned is that those that value being on an inspiration-driven platform, one that is brand-safe, advertisers that value unique insights in the commercial mindset of users long before they buy something and who are open, therefore, to longer attribution windows, those are the advertisers that find success. And so we're seeing that same playbook, which takes a little longer to unfold to build those relationships, generate that kind of understanding in the advertising community. But when it pays off, it's paying off with great traction and great growth in those markets that we've opened, most notably in Western Europe.

我們發現了什麼——您過去曾問過哪些廣告客戶在 Pinterest 上取得成功的問題。我們了解到，那些重視在靈感驅動的平台上的廣告商，一個品牌安全的廣告商，在用戶購買東西之前很早就重視對用戶商業思維方式的獨特見解，因此他們對更長時間的開放歸因窗口，那些是找到成功的廣告商。所以我們看到了同樣的劇本，它需要更長的時間來建立這些關係，在廣告界產生這種理解。但當它得到回報時，它會在我們開放的那些市場中獲得巨大的牽引力和巨大的增長，尤其是在西歐。

You asked the question about 2022. We -- in terms of growth, we're opening up in a couple more countries in Latin America. So Colombia, Chile and Argentina will open this year. So extending the reach within Latin America. And then as you mentioned, we're really excited to start monetizing in a very deep ad market in APAC, in Japan. So all of that work is on track, and I would expect us to continue to see some contribution from those markets by the end of this year, but it takes time. And reflecting on your question, we opened Latin America last year. And while we've seen some early contribution, we've got a long way to go. And I think that's exciting for the future growth potential of the company.

你問了關於 2022 年的問題。就增長而言，我們正在拉丁美洲的幾個國家開放。所以哥倫比亞、智利和阿根廷將在今年開放。因此擴大了在拉丁美洲的影響力。然後正如您所提到的，我們非常高興能夠開始在亞太地區和日本的一個非常深入的廣告市場中獲利。因此，所有這些工作都在進行中，我預計到今年年底我們將繼續看到這些市場的一些貢獻，但這需要時間。考慮到您的問題，我們去年開設了拉丁美洲。雖然我們已經看到了一些早期的貢獻，但我們還有很長的路要走。我認為這對公司未來的增長潛力來說是令人興奮的。

Operator, next question.

接線員，下一個問題。

Our next question comes from Mark Mahaney of Evercore ISI.

我們的下一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 Mark Mahaney。

Okay. I'll just ask about MAUs or the monthly active users. And I know you've talked about this a little bit before, but just please double-click on it today. What's going to cause North American MAUs to stabilize and then to start growing again? Like what series of steps are you going to be looking for in order to gain conviction that you'll be able to get back to kind of that reasonable growth you had pre-COVID and the -- and then the COVID rise and fall?

好的。我只會詢問 MAU 或每月活躍用戶。而且我知道您之前已經討論過這個問題，但請今天雙擊它。什麼會導致北美 MAU 穩定然後再次開始增長？例如，您將尋找哪些步驟來確信您將能夠恢復到 COVID 之前的那種合理增長，然後是 COVID 起起落落？

Yes, Mark, I don't know if -- I'm happy to start, and then Ben can weigh in a little bit on the product work that we're doing. I think the short answer to your question is we're investing in our short-form video content, creator-led content, native content ecosystem to address exactly that point. And we think that's the path toward enriching the user experience and building connections to shopping experiences over time that will drive frequency of use, more people to the platform and over time, a connection to shopping and commercial activity that will differentiate the platform, both with respect to users and advertisers. So that's the overall longer-term answer.

是的，Mark，我不知道是否——我很高興開始，然後 Ben 可以稍微權衡一下我們正在做的產品工作。我認為對您的問題的簡短回答是，我們正在投資於我們的短視頻內容、創作者主導的內容、原生內容生態系統，以解決這一問題。我們認為，隨著時間的推移，這是豐富用戶體驗和與購物體驗建立聯繫的途徑，這將推動使用頻率、更多人使用平台，並且隨著時間的推移，與購物和商業活動的聯繫將使平台與眾不同，兩者都有尊重用戶和廣告商。這就是總體的長期答案。

We're also focused on making the user experience more rewarding this year by leveraging the data we have, increasing personalization, improving our recommendation engine. So continuing a lot of the things that we've talked about over the last couple of years to further build out a really rewarding user experience. And I think that will drive more people to the platform for more things in their life, more session frequency and ultimately, more conversions and economic activity.

今年，我們還專注於通過利用我們擁有的數據、增加個性化、改進我們的推薦引擎來提高用戶體驗。因此，繼續我們在過去幾年中討論過的許多事情，以進一步構建真正有益的用戶體驗。而且我認為這將推動更多的人使用該平台來獲得更多生活中的東西、更多的會話頻率，並最終帶來更多的轉化和經濟活動。

I don't know if it came through clearly before, but the -- in terms of stability, we're looking at a couple of things. One is -- last quarter, we talked a lot about the pandemic impact. We had the benefit of the pandemic from an engagement standpoint, when folks lock down, we shifted -- user behavior shifted to more at-home use cases versus out-of-home use cases. And because of our strength and use cases associated with at-home activities, we benefited. That reversed last year in the spring when out-of-home use cases became more prevalent, and we saw the unwinding of some of those engagement gains in user growth.

我不知道它之前是否清楚地通過了，但就穩定性而言，我們正在研究幾件事。一個是——上個季度，我們談了很多關於大流行的影響。從參與的角度來看，我們從大流行中受益，當人們鎖定時，我們發生了變化——用戶行為轉向更多的家庭用例而不是戶外用例。由於我們的實力和與家庭活動相關的用例，我們從中受益。去年春天，當戶外用例變得更加普遍時，這種情況發生了逆轉，我們看到用戶增長中的一些參與度收益正在減弱。

We, from Q3 to Q4, did see a large impact globally and in the U.S. from the search algorithm changes from Google. And so sequential growth -- the bulk of that decline Q3 to Q4 was not pandemic-related, it was more related to search algorithm changes that drove less search-related traffic to Pinterest. If you stripped out the impact of that, we were actually up in terms of direct mobile app users globally in the high single digits year-over-year. Internationally, we were up 11%. In the U.S., we were down around 6%. So much more resilient engagement with respect to the users who are the deepest, most dedicated, resilient users who drive the bulk of our impressions, time spent and revenue. I don't know if that's helpful.

從第三季度到第四季度，我們確實看到了谷歌搜索算法變化對全球和美國的巨大影響。所以連續增長——第三季度到第四季度的大部分下降與大流行無關，它更多地與搜索算法的變化有關，導致 Pinterest 與搜索相關的流量減少。如果你剔除這一影響，我們實際上在全球直接移動應用程序用戶方面同比增長了高個位數。在國際上，我們上漲了 11%。在美國，我們下跌了約 6%。對於那些最深入、最專注、最有彈性的用戶，他們的參與度要高得多，這些用戶推動了我們的大部分印象、花費的時間和收入。我不知道這是否有幫助。

Ben, I don't know if you want to pile on with respect to the investments we're making in product.

Ben，我不知道你是否想繼續我們在產品方面的投資。

Todd, I thought you did a great job giving an overview.

托德，我認為你在概述方面做得很好。

Mark, the only thing I would add is we've talked about kind of 3 different kind of investments that we're making: investment in creators; an investment in shopping, so when people see things, they can buy them; and then, of course, the investment in our core personalization and discovery experiences. But if you take a step back as a user, like our aspiration is to build 1 coherent experience where all 3 of those things play an important role.

馬克，我唯一要補充的是，我們已經討論了我們正在進行的 3 種不同類型的投資：對創作者的投資；對購物的投資，所以當人們看到東西時，他們可以購買；當然，還有對我們核心個性化和發現體驗的投資。但是，如果您作為用戶退後一步，就像我們的願望一樣，我們的願望是建立一種連貫的體驗，其中所有這三件事都發揮著重要作用。

Today, there are places to connect with your friends, there are places to be entertained. But our vision is to build kind of an inspiration-to-realization platform where you visit, you connect with creators that are aligned with your interests. We understand your taste, and we recommend individual products, and then you can eventually buy those things directly. And that end-to-end experience is something that doesn't exist online.

今天，有地方可以和你的朋友聯繫，有地方可以娛樂。但我們的願景是建立一種從靈感到實現的平台，您可以在其中訪問，與符合您興趣的創作者建立聯繫。我們了解您的口味，我們會推薦個別產品，然後您最終可以直接購買這些東西。而這種端到端的體驗在網上是不存在的。

So these 3 investments will play out over time. I would say the creators is the earliest. Most of those features just launched in October, but it adds an important new element. This year, we'll continue to improve our shopping experiences. We'll expand our test of native checkout. We'll build more dedicated and personalized services on top of a shopping API. And then we're always investing into that core personalization and relevance, and that's really been buoyed by advances in machine learning and computer vision, which are core competencies for the company.

因此，這三項投資將隨著時間的推移而發揮作用。我會說創作者是最早的。其中大部分功能剛剛在 10 月推出，但它增加了一個重要的新元素。今年，我們將繼續改善我們的購物體驗。我們將擴展我們的原生結賬測試。我們將在購物 API 之上構建更多專用和個性化的服務。然後我們一直在投資於核心的個性化和相關性，這確實受到了機器學習和計算機視覺的進步的推動，這些都是公司的核心競爭力。

So Pinterest is really charting a different course. I know in these calls, everything gets reduced down into time spend and ads. And those are, of course, fundamental things that we look at all the time. But we're really focused on owning this inspiration-to-realization space in the market. We think that's very differentiated from social networks and from pure entertainment platforms. And the 3 investments that Todd mentioned on creators, shopping and personalization are all driving towards that common vision.

所以 Pinterest 真的是在開闢一條不同的道路。我知道在這些電話中，一切都會減少為時間花費和廣告。當然，這些都是我們一直關注的基本事物。但我們真正專注於在市場上擁有這個從靈感到實現的空間。我們認為這與社交網絡和純粹的娛樂平台非常不同。托德提到的對創作者、購物和個性化的三項投資都在朝著這個共同願景邁進。

Our next question comes from Brian Nowak of Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的布賴恩諾瓦克。

Let me ask one about sort of the investment areas on the advertising or the monetization side. I mean I know you typically have a pretty robust pipeline of different types of innovation that you're focused on to deliver more return for your advertisers. As you look into 2022, what are the products or areas, Ben, where maybe you're most excited to really invest in and roll out that you think can really move the revenue for you and also really deliver more return for your advertisers throughout 2022?

讓我問一個關於廣告或貨幣化方面的投資領域。我的意思是我知道您通常擁有非常強大的不同類型創新渠道，您專注於為您的廣告商帶來更多回報。 Ben，當您展望 2022 年時，您最興奮的產品或領域是什麼?

Sure, Brian. I'll talk about 4 kind of themes that our advertising and shopping teams keep in mind, and then I'll go into them in a little bit more detail. And the first one we talked about before, but -- it's automation. So we're going to continue our automation journey, especially automating ad campaign management. The second is going to be relevance and optimization. Third, which Todd touched on, was international expansion. And then finally, shopping. And I'll just like walk through them individually, and I think, together, they'll give you some more color on the journey that we're on.

當然，布賴恩。我將討論我們的廣告和購物團隊牢記的 4 種主題，然後我將更詳細地介紹它們。我們之前談到的第一個，但是——它是自動化。因此，我們將繼續我們的自動化之旅，尤其是自動化廣告活動管理。第二個是相關性和優化。第三，托德談到的，是國際擴張。最後，購物。我只是喜歡單獨瀏覽它們，我認為，它們一起會給你在我們正在進行的旅程中增添一些色彩。

So look, just starting with automation, we still believe that we have a lot of runway as we automate ad campaign management. I mean our goal has always been that an advertiser should be able to show up with their budget, their goals and their content and Pinterest should take care of the rest. And we're still pretty far away from doing that.

所以看，剛從自動化開始，我們仍然相信我們有很多跑道，因為我們自動化廣告活動管理。我的意思是我們的目標一直是廣告商應該能夠展示他們的預算、目標和內容，而 Pinterest 應該負責其餘的工作。而我們離做到這一點還很遠。

So in the past, you heard us talking about bidding automation. But this year, our investments are really directly linked to providing more value to midsized and small advertisers that are a natural fit for Pinterest. And so that should result in increasing the efficiency of our ad marketplace and delivering greater value.

所以在過去，您聽到我們談論出價自動化。但今年，我們的投資與為自然適合 Pinterest 的中小型廣告商提供更多價值直接相關。因此，這應該會提高我們廣告市場的效率並提供更大的價值。

Second is relevance. This is sort of this thing that never stops, but we really believe we have room to improve our relevance engines, which should further improve the efficiency of our ads. Again, I'm underlying that as leveraging our Taste Graph and leveraging machine learning. So when people see ads, they feel just like content.

其次是相關性。這是一種永無止境的事情，但我們真的相信我們有改進相關引擎的空間，這應該會進一步提高我們的廣告效率。同樣，我將其作為利用我們的味覺圖和機器學習的基礎。因此，當人們看到廣告時，他們感覺就像內容一樣。

Third, we talked a little bit about international advertisements. Todd did a great job of covering that. We're expanding to new markets. And I'm really excited that the team that we built there and the playbook that we've developed over the last few years, we're kind of learning with each subsequent market how to get off our feet a little bit quicker.

第三，我們談了一點國際廣告。托德在這方面做得很好。我們正在向新市場擴張。我真的很興奮，我們在那裡建立的團隊和我們在過去幾年開發的劇本，我們正在與每個後續市場學習如何更快地站起來。

And then finally, when we look across all of our surfaces, we know that the shopping surface in particular, the surface with the highest commercial intent, still has huge headroom for monetization. So we're investing in building that great consumer experience first. But we see year-over-year increases in the number of people doing product searches, the amount of time that they're spending on shopping surfaces. And we're also simplifying our shopping ad formats, so brands can just more easily promote their products.

最後，當我們查看所有表面時，我們知道，特別是購物表面，具有最高商業意圖的表面，仍然有巨大的貨幣化空間。因此，我們首先投資於打造出色的消費者體驗。但我們看到進行產品搜索的人數，以及他們在購物平台上花費的時間，都在逐年增加。我們還簡化了購物廣告格式，讓品牌可以更輕鬆地推廣他們的產品。

So there's a lot there. We'll be experimenting with Idea Pins monetization. We expect that to lag. We're going to wait for that creator economy to sort of get off to speed. But we think there are some pretty significant drivers of future revenue growth that we're still in the early innings of pursuing.

所以那裡有很多。我們將嘗試通過 Idea Pins 獲利。我們預計會滯後。我們將等待創造者經濟加速發展。但我們認為未來收入增長有一些非常重要的驅動因素，我們仍處於追求的早期階段。

Our next question comes from Rich Greenfield of LightShed Partners.

我們的下一個問題來自 LightShed Partners 的 Rich Greenfield。

Look, last year, there was obviously a lot of speculation surrounding Salesforce acquiring you or looking to acquire. I guess the question is, especially when you sort of highlight, Ben, the challenges of platform changes and how tweaks -- I guess that you're looking at what happened with iOS 14, 15 and Meta, looking at sort of the way Google can change their algorithm, I guess it all just sort of begs the question is size and scale look increasingly important in the broader media tech ecosystem, and I guess even commerce ecosystem, I would say, how do you think about sort of where Pinterest fits in? Are you open to consolidation? Like how do you think about sort of where ultimately you need to be to accomplish what you want?

看，去年，顯然有很多關於 Salesforce 收購或尋求收購的猜測。我想問題是，特別是當你有點強調，Ben，平台變化的挑戰以及如何調整時——我想你正在研究 iOS 14、15 和 Meta 發生的事情，就像谷歌一樣可以改變他們的算法，我想這一切都只是在乞求問題是規模和規模在更廣泛的媒體技術生態系統中看起來越來越重要，我想即使是商業生態系統，我會說，你如何看待 Pinterest 適合的地方在？你願意合併嗎？就像你如何看待最終你需要在哪裡完成你想要的？

Sure, Rich. Well, I think there are 2 parts to the answer. First, like as CEO and fiduciary, I'm always keeping an open mind. But I really do believe that we have a pretty unique place in the market. And I touched on it before, but I can go into a little bit more detail.

當然，里奇。好吧，我認為答案有兩個部分。首先，作為首席執行官和受託人，我始終保持開放的心態。但我真的相信我們在市場上有一個非常獨特的位置。我之前也提到過，但我可以更詳細一點。

First, there's a huge audience that's coming to Pinterest for something that's fundamentally different than what they come to other platforms. They're not coming to connect with friends. They're actually coming to envision their future and to plan for it. And increasingly, we're getting better and better at helping them do that planning, at connecting to the people that can share their knowledge and the inspiration to advance that and then eventually connecting to the retailers into the individual products they need. I really think that planning your future, that's a fundamental human need. That's not going away. And we're laser-focused on targeting that need above all the other ones.

首先，有大量觀眾來到 Pinterest，因為他們與其他平台完全不同。他們不是來和朋友聯繫的。他們實際上是來設想他們的未來並為之計劃的。越來越多地，我們在幫助他們制定計劃方面做得越來越好，在聯繫可以分享他們的知識和靈感的人來推動這一點，然後最終與零售商聯繫到他們需要的個人產品方面。我真的認為規劃你的未來，這是人類的基本需求。那不會消失。我們專注於針對所有其他需求的需求。

The second thing I'd say is that Pinterest sits at this pretty interesting intersection of a few trends that are really secular growth trends in the industry. Commerce is one of those. And we have a lot of people coming with specific intent to do something, but they may not have settled on the specific product they're looking for. And I think that space of shopping, not just buying but actually shopping, discovering what you're looking for, finding something that aligns with your taste, that's still quite open.

我要說的第二件事是，Pinterest 處於行業中一些真正長期增長趨勢的幾個趨勢的非常有趣的交叉點。商業就是其中之一。我們有很多人帶著特定的意圖來做某事，但他們可能還沒有確定他們正在尋找的特定產品。而且我認為購物空間，不僅僅是購物，而是真正的購物，發現你在尋找的東西，找到符合你口味的東西，它仍然是相當開放的。

And then finally, we're investing in the creator ecosystem and online video. And I truly believe that video and mobile video, it's still in its infancy as an industry. I believe that we're going to see verticalization happen over time, and we're well positioned to pioneer in new media formats to do both inspiration, but also allow creators to facilitate action in providing different revenue models for them and being a real source of economic growth for that new creator business. So that's what we've laid out over the last few years. Yes?

最後，我們正在投資創作者生態系統和在線視頻。我真的相信視頻和移動視頻作為一個行業仍處於起步階段。我相信隨著時間的推移，我們會看到垂直化發生，我們已經做好了開拓新媒體格式的準備，既能激發靈感，又能讓創作者採取行動，為他們提供不同的收入模式並成為真正的來源新創造者業務的經濟增長。這就是我們在過去幾年中所製定的。是的？

So just to be clear, when I think Todd made a comment about the potential risk to growth on sort of engagement tied to competition. Is -- I mean, are we speaking specifically about TikTok? Or is there something else beyond something like TikTok that you're looking at competitively that could have impact in the future?

所以要明確一點，當我認為托德就與競爭相關的參與度對增長的潛在風險發表評論時。是 - 我的意思是，我們是在專門談論 TikTok 嗎？或者，除了 TikTok 之類的東西之外，您是否還有其他可能在未來產生影響的競爭性產品？

Sure, Rich. I mean, look, we take all competition seriously. I would argue that competition for kind of user attention and time right now is probably the most competitive industry in the world. So of course, TikTok we think about. We think about Meta. We think about Google. But we also really try to focus on what we can offer that's differentiated, and that was the spirit of the last answer. So I hope that's helpful.

當然，里奇。我的意思是，看，我們認真對待所有競爭。我認為，目前對用戶注意力和時間的競爭可能是世界上競爭最激烈的行業。因此，我們當然會考慮 TikTok。我們考慮 Meta。我們想到了谷歌。但我們也真正嘗試專注於我們可以提供的差異化服務，這就是最後一個答案的精神。所以我希望這會有所幫助。

Our next question comes from Doug Anmuth of JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Doug Anmuth。

Great. To the first one, do you have any views to share on why Google algorithm changes are impacting you guys more recently and how to think about direct traffic this year and then going forward?

偉大的。對於第一個，你有什麼看法可以分享一下為什麼谷歌算法的變化最近對你們產生了影響，以及如何考慮今年和未來的直接流量？

And then secondly, could you give us an update on where you are to native checkout? Any timing for that, moving it beyond just that space?

其次，您能否向我們提供有關本地結帳的最新信息？任何時機，將它移到那個空間之外？

Yes, I think a couple of questions in there. One was around direct traffic and search-driven traffic and then the other was on native checkout.

是的，我認為其中有幾個問題。一個是圍繞直接流量和搜索驅動的流量，另一個是本地結賬。

On the second, we just started piloting and testing native checkout. And we look forward to continuing to scale and broaden those efforts over the course of the year. So it's still pretty early days.

第二，我們剛剛開始試點和測試原生結賬。我們期待在這一年中繼續擴大和擴大這些努力。所以現在還很早。

On the direct traffic mix, I tried to lay out a couple of ways I've been thinking about it. One was the bridge on sequential and year-over-year trends with respect to MAUs. And I wanted to give you a little bit more color on that direct usage, mobile app usage to give some color on the difference between search-driven traffic and search-driven MAUs versus those that are direct for the reason that you described.

關於直接流量組合，我嘗試列出我一直在考慮的幾種方式。一個是關於 MAU 的連續和同比趨勢的橋樑。我想為您提供更多關於直接使用、移動應用程序使用的信息，以便對搜索驅動的流量和搜索驅動的 MAU 與由於您所描述的原因而直接使用的 MAU 之間的差異提供一些顏色。

The truth is that Google makes algorithm changes regularly. We did see another one in November that had a material impact, which is why we're calling it out. It's not the first time it's happened. And we are working on how to best factor that into our product mix and respond to it. But the long-term answer is to have a robust native content ecosystem, which we're building, and I think that will be the long-term answer on engagement.

事實上，谷歌會定期更改算法。我們確實在 11 月看到了另一個產生重大影響的事件，這就是我們要大聲疾呼的原因。這不是第一次發生。我們正在研究如何最好地將其納入我們的產品組合併做出回應。但長期的答案是擁有一個我們正在構建的強大的原生內容生態系統，我認為這將是參與度的長期答案。

Our next question comes from Colin Sebastian with Baird.

我們的下一個問題來自 Colin Sebastian 和 Baird。

Two for me as well. I guess, first off, I wanted to follow up on some of the disparity and performance between the mobile app and desktop. I know you -- a lot of the work you've done on personalization and native content, for example, might be more concentrated in the app. If that's true, is the app usage and engagement level or trend, is that a better gauge for what overall the platform might look like down the road in terms of engagement?

兩個對我來說也是如此。我想，首先，我想跟進移動應用程序和桌面之間的一些差異和性能。我知道你——例如，你在個性化和原生內容方面所做的很多工作可能更集中在應用程序上。如果這是真的，那麼應用程序的使用和參與度或趨勢是否可以更好地衡量平台在參與度方面的整體情況？

And then secondly, I know you added a Chief Content Officer from YouTube. I think Malik's experience was with a lot of premium content and native content creation. So I'm wondering if YouTube strategy in those areas serves as somewhat of a template for what you hope to achieve in respect to video brought out of the platform.

其次，我知道您從 YouTube 添加了一位首席內容官。我認為 Malik 的經驗是大量優質內容和原生內容創作。因此，我想知道 YouTube 在這些領域的策略是否可以作為您希望從平台帶出的視頻實現的模板。

Colin, why don't I start with the question on the search-driven traffic, and then I'll let Ben talk about the team and leadership piece.

Colin，我為什麼不先從搜索驅動流量的問題開始，然後讓 Ben 談談團隊和領導力。

We've talked -- remember back to our -- when we were marketing the company on the road show, we talked about a lot of our user growth being different on Pinterest versus social media. It's not a viral product where if you join, you immediately invite 7 of your friends. Much more linear in terms of growth, and it's driven largely by word of mouth.

我們已經談過 - 回想一下 - 當我們在路演中營銷公司時，我們談到了 Pinterest 與社交媒體上的很多用戶增長是不同的。這不是病毒式產品，如果您加入，您會立即邀請 7 個朋友。在增長方面更加線性，並且主要由口耳相傳。

Search-driven traffic is kind of a way of getting word of mouth and it's automated. And you're looking for a new idea, you have content that's recommended to you and you discover Pinterest. So it's an important top of funnel growth driver and it's also an important revisitation driver. For those reasons, we think it's an important part of our engagement because it's a source of revisitation and therefore, reducing churn. Ultimately, our MAUs are a by-product of that. And it introduces people to Pinterest potentially for the first time to solve new problems in their life.

搜索驅動的流量是一種獲得口碑的方式，它是自動化的。你正在尋找一個新的想法，你有推薦給你的內容，你發現了 Pinterest。因此，它是漏斗增長驅動力的重要頂部，也是重要的重訪驅動力。出於這些原因，我們認為這是我們參與的重要組成部分，因為它是重新訪問的來源，因此可以減少客戶流失。最終，我們的 MAU 是其中的副產品。它首次將人們引入 Pinterest 可能是為了解決他們生活中的新問題。

I wanted to give the color on the mobile app uses because that is where people spend the bulk of their time impressions and revenue opportunity, but the 2 are very important when considered together. So that's why we've broken it out the way we did.

我想在移動應用程序使用上給出顏色，因為這是人們花費大部分時間印象和收入機會的地方，但是當兩者一起考慮時，兩者非常重要。所以這就是為什麼我們以我們的方式打破它。

Yes, Colin. And as you pointed out, we welcomed Malik from YouTube as our first Chief Content Officer. It kind of reflects the role and the importance of content on the platform going forward. Look, I would say that there are a few things. One is, as a company, we have a lot to learn about audience development. We're really impressed with kind of Malik's analytical problem solving as well as experience in both kind of premium and user-generated content.

是的，科林。正如您所指出的，我們歡迎 YouTube 的 Malik 成為我們的第一位首席內容官。它反映了內容在未來平台上的作用和重要性。看，我想說有幾件事。一是，作為一家公司，我們有很多關於觀眾發展的知識。我們對 Malik 的分析問題解決方式以及在優質內容和用戶生成內容方面的經驗印象深刻。

The other thing that I was really interested in is that Pinterest really wants to be a place where the content that we serve to folks is nourishing, is positive and it's inspirational. I think over the last few years, a lot of our users have appreciated that while many services online kind of have quite a bit of polarization or toxicity or sometimes content that they don't feel like is enriching, Pinterest has tried to have a little bit of a tighter focus on something that's positive and inspiring and that's because that's core to our mission, right? If you're thinking about being inspired for your life, it's important that you're in an environment on where the content is positive overall. And so looking at some of his experience working with more positive content ecosystems, whether it's like YouTube Kids or on the premium side, I thought brought some really important insight.

我真正感興趣的另一件事是，Pinterest 真的想成為一個我們為人們提供的內容是滋養、積極和鼓舞人心的地方。我認為在過去的幾年裡，我們的很多用戶已經意識到，雖然許多在線服務有點兩極分化或毒性，或者有時他們覺得內容並不豐富，但 Pinterest 試圖有一點更加專注於積極和鼓舞人心的事情，因為這是我們使命的核心，對吧？如果您正在考慮為自己的生活受到啟發，那麼重要的是您處於一個內容總體上是積極的環境中。因此，看看他與更積極的內容生態系統合作的一些經驗，無論是像 YouTube Kids 還是在高級方面，我認為帶來了一些非常重要的見解。

I'd also share that we're building a whole team. And so there's always a lot of attention on leaders, but I'm excited about the team's ability to move fast and innovate and really chart its own path because I think that all of these content platforms while in their initial days, they may look similar, they're going to end up looking different and verticalizing. And so we're going to need to really follow kind of the Pinterest users and develop a content offering that really works towards our mission of inspiring them in their day-to-day life.

我還要分享我們正在建立一個完整的團隊。因此，領導者總是受到很多關注，但我對團隊快速行動和創新並真正規劃自己道路的能力感到興奮，因為我認為所有這些內容平台在最初的日子裡可能看起來很相似，他們最終會看起來不同並且垂直化。因此，我們將需要真正關注 Pinterest 用戶，並開發一種真正有助於我們在日常生活中激勵他們的使命的內容產品。

Our next question comes from Lloyd Walmsley of UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀的 Lloyd Walmsley。

This is Akaash Agarwal on for Lloyd. Two questions, if I may. The first is, can you talk about trends in higher frequency metrics like weekly active users or maybe overall time spent? Are you seeing this outperform relative to MAU?

這是勞埃德的 Akaash Agarwal。兩個問題，如果可以的話。首先是，你能談談更高頻率指標的趨勢，比如每週活躍用戶或總體花費時間嗎？您是否看到了相對於 MAU 的表現？

And then the second question would just be, you mentioned how some of the newer formats are driving increases in frequency. What are you seeing with respect to shopping in particular? Are you seeing consumers who leverage the shopping functionality actually come back with greater frequencies? Or is it more Story Pins, Idea Pins and video?

然後第二個問題是，您提到了一些較新的格式如何推動頻率的增加。特別是在購物方面，您看到了什麼？您是否看到利用購物功能的消費者實際上以更高的頻率回來？還是更多的故事圖釘、創意圖釘和視頻？

I can start. Thanks for the questions. So on the additional metrics that you were asking about, weekly active users, time spent, et cetera, we do disclose a ratio in our public filings on an annual basis around weekly active users as a percentage of monthly active users, and that's been pretty stable over the last few years. So that's the answer on one.

我可以開始了。感謝您的提問。因此，關於您詢問的其他指標，每週活躍用戶、花費時間等，我們確實在每年的公開文件中披露了每週活躍用戶佔每月活躍用戶百分比的比率，這很不錯近幾年穩定。所以這是一個答案。

With respect to shopping, we're -- we are seeing a much better user experience, enabled by a lot of the investments we've been making over the last few years. Dedicated shopping surfaces that allow users to go from idea to purchase in a much more natural kind of shopping -- in a much more natural shopping journey. And at the same time, we've dramatically improved the amount of inventory we can serve with our catalog ingestion work and the APIs that we've developed. As a result of that, we've seen a number of users who are engaging in shopping surfaces grow pretty meaningfully. We're up 20% sequentially from Q3 to Q4 and 20% year-over-year. So really encouraging.

在購物方面，我們看到了更好的用戶體驗，這得益於我們在過去幾年中所做的大量投資。專用的購物平台，允許用戶在更自然的購物方式中從想法到購買——在更自然的購物旅程中。同時，我們通過目錄提取工作和我們開發的 API 顯著提高了我們可以提供的庫存數量。因此，我們看到許多參與購物平台的用戶顯著增長。從第三季度到第四季度，我們連續增長 20%，同比增長 20%。所以真的很鼓舞人心。

And I think there are a lot of connections that we can build over the next few years across this native video ecosystem, our creator-led content ecosystem coupled with a lot of the shopping investments we're making should make a really differentiated experience on Pinterest.

我認為未來幾年我們可以在這個原生視頻生態系統中建立很多聯繫，我們以創作者為主導的內容生態系統，再加上我們正在進行的大量購物投資，應該會在 Pinterest 上帶來真正與眾不同的體驗.

You may have also noted that we got some press a couple of days ago on the AR -- some of the AR products we've been shipping that have really improved, from a technology perspective, our ability to deliver pretty interesting shopping experiences. So really excited about some of the innovation that our teams have built.

您可能還注意到，幾天前我們收到了一些關於 AR 的新聞——從技術角度來看，我們一直在運送的一些 AR 產品確實提高了我們提供非常有趣的購物體驗的能力。對我們團隊建立的一些創新感到非常興奮。

Our next question comes from -- and your next question comes from Justin Post of Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自——您的下一個問題來自美國銀行的賈斯汀·波斯特。

Great. I'll ask just one. Revenues really accelerated during the pandemic, and you were able to reach 32% margins for EBITDA last year. So just -- looks like you're going to be doing some more investing next year. What have you learned about the margin potential of the business? And any update on how you're thinking about long-term margins?

偉大的。我只問一個。大流行期間收入確實加速增長，去年的 EBITDA 利潤率達到了 32%。所以只是 - 看起來你明年會做更多的投資。您對企業的利潤率潛力有何了解？關於您如何考慮長期利潤的任何更新？

Thanks, Justin. While we did have kind of a banner year with respect to performance, we -- gross margins were at incredibly high levels. By the end of the year, our spend profile, we continue to invest aggressively. Our headcount growth, I think a year ago, it was like 15% in the fourth quarter. That ticked up a few points every quarter until we got to 27% in the fourth quarter of this year. We're investing in a lot further -- more headcount growth going into next year.

謝謝，賈斯汀。雖然我們在業績方面確實有一個標誌性的一年，但我們 - 毛利率處於令人難以置信的高水平。到今年年底，根據我們的支出概況，我們將繼續積極投資。我認為一年前我們的員工人數增長在第四季度約為 15%。每個季度都會上升幾個百分點，直到今年第四季度達到 27%。我們正在進一步投資——明年會有更多的員工人數增長。

I think what we've proven is that we have a great business model and that the business is working. I think we've also internally come to the view that the long-term potential of the company needs to be enabled by further investments over the course of this year, which is how we landed at the guidance that we suggested, which is a lot of confidence that when we make investments with the right plan, we know what we're looking at to gauge success and we hold ourselves to that, from an execution standpoint, we have a pattern of delivering great results.

我認為我們已經證明，我們有一個很好的商業模式，而且業務正在運作。我認為我們在內部也認為，公司的長期潛力需要通過今年的進一步投資來實現，這就是我們如何實現我們建議的指導，這是很多相信當我們以正確的計劃進行投資時，我們知道我們正在尋找什麼來衡量成功並且我們堅持這一點，從執行的角度來看，我們有一個交付偉大成果的模式。

That started a few years ago when we were building our -- rebuilding our international audience. Our growth rate in international users had been ticking down and with concerted effort, the right investment plan and great execution, we turned that around and reaccelerated our user growth outside of the U.S. That was fantastic.

這始於幾年前，當時我們正在建立我們的 - 重建我們的國際觀眾。我們的國際用戶增長率一直在下降，通過齊心協力、正確的投資計劃和出色的執行，我們扭轉了局面，重新加速了我們在美國以外的用戶增長。這太棒了。

We built a monetization plan in the U.S., that was forward investing in building a business, and that worked well. We did the same thing for international monetization. And again, we've talked about this in the past, put a lot of investment in creating a compelling shopping experience from a user perspective and are now building a business around that. So I'm confident that like all of those other projects, our long-term focus, the strategic outcomes that we're looking for the right answer for this business over the next few years and accelerating our investments again next year will help us deliver against that. Is that helpful?

我們在美國製定了一項貨幣化計劃，該計劃是對建立業務的前瞻性投資，並且效果很好。我們為國際貨幣化做了同樣的事情。再說一次，我們過去曾討論過這個問題，從用戶的角度投入了大量資金來創造引人入勝的購物體驗，現在正在圍繞這個建立業務。因此，我相信，與所有其他項目一樣，我們的長期關注點、我們正在為未來幾年為該業務尋找正確答案以及明年再次加速投資的戰略成果將幫助我們實現目標反對。這有幫助嗎？

Yes, great.

對，很好。

Operator, we'll take our last question.

接線員，我們將回答最後一個問題。

Our final question will come from Rohit Kulkarni of MKM Partners.

我們的最後一個問題將來自 MKM Partners 的 Rohit Kulkarni。

Two, if I could. One is just in the past, you've commented on in-home versus out-of-home use cases and kind of underlying engagement trending one way or the other. Yes, I just pointed here is that the only creator showcased in the letter is a travel vlogger. So if you could just comment on like how the -- how about the engagement for, say, out-of-home, say, travel, beauty trending versus in-home use cases?

二，如果可以的話。一個只是過去，您已經評論了家庭與戶外用例以及某種潛在的參與趨勢以一種或另一種方式。是的，我只是在這裡指出的是，這封信中展示的唯一創作者是一位旅行視頻博主。因此，如果您可以評論一下，例如，外出旅行、美容趨勢與家庭用例的參與度如何？

And another question is on managed versus fully kind of automated advertising campaigns. If you could just call out what type of advertisers are choosing one versus the other? Is there a pathway that you think that an advertiser goes from a managed, full funnel ad campaign to a completely automated ad campaign? So those are the questions.

另一個問題是關於託管與完全自動化的廣告活動。如果您能說出哪種類型的廣告商選擇其中一種而不是另一種？您認為廣告客戶是否有一種途徑可以從託管的全渠道廣告活動轉變為完全自動化的廣告活動？所以這些是問題。

Why don't I -- I'll start with the second question. I think we've seen a lot of success in our managed advertising community, those that we cover both with respect to field sellers, all the way through our kind of mid-market coverage team. And we've been making a lot of investments in automating our ad stack to make it easier for those advertisers to onboard, scale their spend and increasingly see the results of that spend.

我為什麼不——我將從第二個問題開始。我認為我們已經在我們的託管廣告社區中看到了很多成功，我們涵蓋了與現場賣家有關的領域，一直到我們這樣的中端市場覆蓋團隊。我們一直在對我們的廣告堆棧自動化進行大量投資，以使這些廣告商更容易加入、擴大他們的支出並越來越多地看到支出的結果。

We're not at the point yet today where that experience is as fully instrumented as we would like it to be to have an unmanaged, long-tail advertiser base on the platform. And so we've been focusing on the managed go-to-market model until we get that up and running. And we've been making all the right investments, seeing all the right returns. With respect to building that ad stack, it will just take some time before we get there. So that's one.

我們今天還沒有達到我們希望在平台上擁有不受管理的長尾廣告客戶基礎的那種體驗的充分工具化的地步。因此，我們一直專注於託管上市模式，直到我們啟動並運行它。我們一直在進行所有正確的投資，看到了所有正確的回報。關於構建該廣告堆棧，我們需要一些時間才能到達那裡。所以這是一個。

I don't know, Ben, if you wanted to talk about use cases.

我不知道，Ben，你是否想談談用例。

Yes, Rohit. I mean Pinterest's use cases have often reflected what's going on in broader society. So as Todd mentioned, we saw a big change with the outbreak and the pandemic. And hopefully, we're seeing a little bit more of a return to normalcy. I think we're all hoping for that.

是的，羅希特。我的意思是 Pinterest 的用例通常反映了更廣泛的社會中正在發生的事情。正如托德所說，隨著疫情的爆發和大流行，我們看到了巨大的變化。希望我們能看到更多的回歸常態。我想我們都希望如此。

Also say on Pinterest itself, we've always had historical strength in some core lifestyle verticals. One of our hopes is that as we scale the creator ecosystem and give creators the ability to directly build their own communities on Pinterest, we'll start to see some expansion and see different types of use cases emerge. Still early days, but again, it's kind of one of the benefits if we can build that ecosystem. And so we're excited to continue investing in that because we think it will advance our mission of inspiring people and helping them create a life they love.

還要說 Pinterest 本身，我們在一些核心生活方式垂直領域一直擁有歷史實力。我們的一個希望是，隨著我們擴展創作者生態系統並讓創作者能夠直接在 Pinterest 上建立自己的社區，我們將開始看到一些擴展並看到不同類型的用例出現。仍然處於早期階段，但同樣，如果我們能夠建立該生態系統，這也是一種好處。因此，我們很高興能繼續在這方面進行投資，因為我們認為這將推進我們激勵人們並幫助他們創造自己熱愛的生活的使命。

Great. Thank you for joining our call, everyone, and we'll see you next quarter.

偉大的。感謝大家加入我們的電話會議，我們下個季度再見。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的加入。您現在可以斷開線路。