PropertyGuru Group Ltd (PGRU) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Okay. Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the PropertyGuru Group First Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this program will be recorded. (Operator Instructions)

好的。感謝您的耐心等待，歡迎參加 PropertyGuru 集團 2023 年第一季度收益電話會議。 （操作員說明） 作為提醒，該節目將被錄製。 （操作員說明）

Now let me introduce Nat Otis, VP of Investor Relations. Mr. Otis, please go ahead.

現在讓我介紹一下投資者關係副總裁 Nat Otis。奧蒂斯先生，請繼續。

Good morning and good evening. Welcome to PropertyGuru Group's First Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. On the call today are Hari Krishnan, CEO and Managing Director; and Joe Dische, CFO.

早上好，晚上好。歡迎參加 PropertyGuru 集團 2023 年第一季度收益電話會議。今天參加電話會議的是首席執行官兼董事總經理 Hari Krishnan；和首席財務官喬·迪什。

Before we get started, a few reminders. Firstly, our results are available in the earnings release that can be found in the Investors section of our website. Secondly, today's webcast is being recorded. A replay along with a transcript will also be available in the Investors section of our website.

在我們開始之前，有一些提醒。首先，我們的業績可在我們網站的投資者部分找到的收益報告中找到。其次，今天的網絡直播正在錄製中。我們網站的投資者部分也將提供重播和文字記錄。

Thirdly, we will be making forward-looking statements, including, but not limited to, statements regarding our future results and expectations for the business. These results are neither promises nor guarantees, and involve risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to vary materially. Please refer to our earnings release and SEC filings for more information regarding risk factors.

第三，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，包括但不限於有關我們未來業績和業務預期的陳述。這些結果既不是承諾也不是保證，並且涉及可能導致實際結果發生重大變化的風險和不確定性。有關風險因素的更多信息，請參閱我們的收益發布和 SEC 文件。

Forward-looking statements are based on current expectations, and the company is not obliged to update them, except as required by law.

前瞻性陳述基於當前的預期，公司沒有義務更新它們，除非法律要求。

Fourthly, this call will also contain non-IFRS financial measures. For a reconciliation of non-IFRS financial measures to the most directly comparable IFRS metric, please see our earnings press release. Lastly, all dollar references are in Singapore dollars, unless otherwise stated.

第四，本次電話會議還將包含非國際財務報告準則的財務措施。有關非國際財務報告準則財務指標與最直接可比的國際財務報告準則指標的調節，請參閱我們的收益新聞稿。最後，除非另有說明，所有美元參考均以新加坡元為單位。

With that, let me turn the call over to Hari.

接下來，讓我把電話轉給哈里。

Thank you for joining us today for our first quarter 2023 earnings conference call. We are pleased to share that PropertyGuru has started the year off on a strong note by delivering overall revenue growth of 16% and positive adjusted EBITDA, both of which are in line with our internal expectations even with challenging conditions in Vietnam. As a result, we are maintaining the full year 2023 revenue and adjusted EBITDA outlook that we introduced last quarter. Our success can be directly attributed to our dedicated team of Gurus as we expand our product portfolio, witness growing acceptance of our existing offerings and enhanced operational efficiency. Despite the cautious approach of some Southeast Asian policymakers towards current market conditions, we remain confident in the underlying strength of our offerings and the opportunities in the Southeast Asian property markets.

感謝您今天參加我們的 2023 年第一季度收益電話會議。我們很高興地與大家分享，PropertyGuru 在今年伊始就取得了強勁的業績，整體收入增長了 16%，調整後的 EBITDA 為正值，即使越南的形勢充滿挑戰，這兩項指標也符合我們的內部預期。因此，我們維持上季度推出的 2023 年全年收入和調整後 EBITDA 前景。我們的成功可以直接歸功於我們專業的專家團隊，因為我們擴大了產品組合，見證了我們現有產品的接受度不斷提高以及運營效率的提高。儘管一些東南亞政策制定者對當前市場狀況持謹慎態度，但我們對我們產品的潛在實力和東南亞房地產市場的機遇仍然充滿信心。

In Singapore, PropertyGuru continues to benefit from a robust property market despite the introduction of additional market cooling measures by the government, such as property tax and stamp duty increases as a mechanism for prioritizing affordable homeownership for Singaporeans. While overall GDP only grew by 0.1% in the first quarter of 2023, GDP tied to construction experienced a significant increase of 8.5%. This robust construction sector growth bodes well for increased supply in the coming quarters.

在新加坡，儘管政府採取了額外的市場降溫措施，例如提高房產稅和印花稅，作為優先考慮新加坡人負擔得起的住房的機制，但 PropertyGuru 仍繼續受益於強勁的房地產市場。雖然 2023 年第一季度 GDP 總體僅增長 0.1%，但與建築業相關的 GDP 卻大幅增長 8.5%。建築業的強勁增長預示著未來幾個季度供應的增加。

Our property market report brings positive news as sales demand shows improvement from the previous quarter, and both sales and rental pricing remains strong, albeit with transactions below first quarter 2022 levels. We continue to thrive with resilient pricing, high customer engagement and successful new products in Singapore. We introduced MRT Featured Agent, a premium product that allows consumers to find specialist agents and available properties based on their proximity to specific train stations. We also launched Promoted Listings for developers in both Singapore and Malaysia, increasing awareness and leads for their properties as the volume of new projects launched continues to increase.

我們的房地產市場報告帶來了積極消息，因為銷售需求較上一季度有所改善，儘管交易量低於 2022 年第一季度的水平，但銷售和租賃定價仍然強勁。我們在新加坡憑藉彈性定價、高客戶參與度和成功的新產品繼續蓬勃發展。我們推出了 MRT 精選代理，這是一種優質產品，可讓消費者根據與特定火車站的距離找到專業代理和可用房產。我們還為新加坡和馬來西亞的開發商推出了促銷清單，隨著推出的新項目數量不斷增加，提高了他們的房產的知名度和領先地位。

In Malaysia, we are encouraged as our revenue growth has been supported by improved pricing and operational leverage from both our brands. Our strengthening presence in Malaysia is crucial for our future success, and we believe that the uncertainties surrounding the national elections are subsiding. Additionally, we introduced know-your-customer in Malaysia, which strengthens lead quality for our agents and provides customized recommendations to consumers.

在馬來西亞，我們受到鼓舞，因為我們兩個品牌的定價和運營槓桿的改善支持了我們的收入增長。我們加強在馬來西亞的影響力對於我們未來的成功至關重要，我們相信圍繞全國選舉的不確定性正在消退。此外，我們在馬來西亞推出了“了解你的客戶”，這增強了我們代理商的銷售質量，並向消費者提供定制建議。

Vietnam presents some challenges in the near term as the government continues to restrict credit for the property market. The number of our listings declined and many property-related firms halted business in the quarter, but we continue to invest in the product as we revamped the primary search experience, offering simplified ad choices, longer default durations and improved listing quality.

由於政府繼續限制房地產市場信貸，越南在短期內面臨一些挑戰。我們的列表數量下降，許多房地產相關公司在本季度停止了業務，但我們繼續投資該產品，改進主要搜索體驗，提供簡化的廣告選擇、更長的默認持續時間和提高的列表質量。

On a macro level, there are positive developments such as the government's decision to lower interest rates in March aiming to stimulate growth. Looking ahead, the Vietnamese economy's longer-term outlook remains positive, with the possibility of an inflection point for the property market in the second half of 2023.

在宏觀層面上，出現了一些積極的進展，例如政府決定在三月份降低利率以刺激增長。展望未來，越南經濟的長期前景依然樂觀，房地產市場有可能在2023年下半年出現拐點。

In our data services business, following our expansion of DataSense across all our markets in the first quarter, we undertook a technical upgrade of our interactive maps to further enhance the customer experience, once again, reinforcing our commitment to stay at the forefront of technological advancements and deliver the best possible solutions to our customers.

在我們的數據服務業務中，繼第一季度將DataSense擴展到所有市場後，我們對交互式地圖進行了技術升級，以進一步增強客戶體驗，再次強化了我們保持技術進步前沿的承諾並為我們的客戶提供最佳的解決方案。

On that note, I would also add that we have been exploring the application of generative AI for over a year now, with internal-facing initiatives on software development productivity, code quality and customer verification. In addition, we're also experimenting with external-facing features to improve our content and consumer experience.

在這一點上，我還要補充一點，我們已經探索生成式人工智能的應用一年多了，在軟件開發效率、代碼質量和客戶驗證方面採取了面向內部的舉措。此外，我們還在嘗試面向外部的功能，以改善我們的內容和消費者體驗。

In fintech, as of the end of March, our mortgage business had brokered over SGD 4 billion worth of home loans, demonstrating the trust and confidence that customers have placed in PropertyGuru as their preferred platform for securing home financing.

在金融科技方面，截至 3 月底，我們的抵押貸款業務已代理價值超過 40 億新元的住房貸款，這表明客戶對 PropertyGuru 作為他們的住房融資首選平台的信任和信心。

Lastly, we have made several top-notch additions to our leadership team. Disha Goenka Das has joined us as Chief Marketing Officer; Helen Snowball has joined us as Chief People Officer; and Manav Kamboj, our Chief Technology Officer, has expanded his remit to also serve as our Managing Director of FinTech. A strong and stable leadership team and Board have been central to our success over the last several years. We are confident that these new additions to the team will only strengthen our capabilities in the years ahead.

最後，我們為我們的領導團隊增添了幾位頂尖人才。 Disha Goenka Das 加入我們，擔任首席營銷官；海倫·斯諾鮑 (Helen Snowball) 加入我們，擔任首席人力官；我們的首席技術官 Manav Kamboj 擴大了自己的職權範圍，兼任我們的金融科技董事總經理。強大而穩定的領導團隊和董事會是我們過去幾年成功的核心。我們相信，團隊的這些新成員只會增強我們未來幾年的能力。

On a broader note, we are focused on the management of our cost base given current market conditions. And as a result, I would note that our overall headcount is already coming down.

從更廣泛的角度來看，考慮到當前的市場狀況，我們專注於成本基礎的管理。因此，我注意到我們的總人數已經在下降。

Just to wrap things up before passing the call over to Joe. The business continues to perform well as we leverage our value additive solutions and strong customer acceptance to deliver solid growth in a challenging environment. We remain bullish on our growth prospects, improving profitability and the fundamental opportunity that exists in our core markets?

只是在將電話轉給喬之前先把事情總結一下。我們利用增值解決方案和客戶的強烈認可，在充滿挑戰的環境中實現穩健增長，業務繼續表現良好。我們仍然看好我們的增長前景、提高盈利能力以及我們核心市場中存在的基本機會？

Let me now turn the call over to Joe to review our financial performance.

現在讓我將電話轉給喬，以審查我們的財務業績。

Thanks, Hari. PropertyGuru started off 2023 well, with revenues in the first quarter of $33 million, up 16% from the first quarter of 2022. We were especially pleased with the fact that all of our segments experienced over 25% growth in the quarter, other than Vietnam, which continues to face challenges from governmental policies, limiting available credit.

謝謝，哈里。 PropertyGuru 2023 年開局良好，第一季度收入為 3300 萬美元，比 2022 年第一季度增長 16%。我們特別高興的是，除越南外，我們所有細分市場在本季度都實現了超過 25% 的增長，它繼續面臨政府政策的挑戰，限制了可用信貸。

Adjusted EBITDA in the quarter was $0.2 million, roughly in line with the same period in 2022. And it's worth noting that our first quarter 2023 result includes approximately $2.5 million in costs relating to being a listed entity. Obviously, this is significantly more than in the prior year quarter as the company did not go public until late in March of 2022.

本季度調整後 EBITDA 為 20 萬美元，與 2022 年同期大致持平。值得注意的是，我們 2023 年第一季度的業績包括約 250 萬美元與上市實體相關的成本。顯然，這一數字明顯高於去年同期，因為該公司直到 2022 年 3 月下旬才上市。

Marketplace revenues were $31 million in the first quarter, up 15% year-over-year, and our adjusted EBITDA improved to 52% from 50% in the first quarter of 2022 as we continue to develop and deploy products and technology for use by our growing customer base.

第一季度的市場收入為 3100 萬美元，同比增長 15%，隨著我們繼續開發和部署供我們的客戶使用的產品和技術，我們的調整後 EBITDA 從 2022 年第一季度的 50% 提高到 52%。不斷增長的客戶群。

In Singapore, our pool of agent partners grew again this quarter. Our customer renewal rate was flat at 79%, and our average revenue per agent, or ARPA, was up 19% from the prior year period. As a result of both the growing ARPA and the continued increase in the number of agents, Singapore revenues were up 26% to $19 million from the first quarter of 2022, and adjusted EBITDA was $40 million for a 74% margin.

在新加坡，我們的代理合作夥伴數量本季度再次增長。我們的客戶續約率持平於 79%，每個代理的平均收入 (ARPA) 比去年同期增長了 19%。由於 ARPA 的增長和代理商數量的持續增加，新加坡的收入較 2022 年第一季度增長了 26%，達到 1,900 萬美元，調整後的 EBITDA 為 4,000 萬美元，利潤率為 74%。

In Malaysia, revenues were $7 million, up 26% from the prior year quarter, and our adjusted EBITDA increased over $1 million to a positive $3.5 million or a 51% margin, up from 44% in the first quarter of 2022. I would note this equates to a drop-through of over 80% for every new dollar of revenue to adjusted EBITDA. This underscores the leverage we're now seeing in Malaysia as we reap the benefits of the iProperty and PropertyGuru Malaysia.

在馬來西亞，收入為 700 萬美元，比上年同期增長 26%，調整後的 EBITDA 增長超過 100 萬美元，達到正值 350 萬美元，利潤率為 51%，高於 2022 年第一季度的 44%。我要指出這相當於每增加一美元收入，調整後的 EBITDA 就會下降 80% 以上。這凸顯了我們現在在馬來西亞看到的槓桿作用，因為我們獲得了 iProperty 和 PropertyGuru Malaysia 的好處。

Vietnam's revenues, however, were down 34% from the first quarter of '22 as governmental actions to limit the availability of credit led to a 32% drop in the number of listings from the prior year quarter. We have strong conviction in Vietnam's property market long term. Although our business continues to be challenged by near-term -- impacted by near-term challenges, we see enhanced product and search capabilities as adding greater value and laying the groundwork for growth once the credit environment improves.

然而，由於政府限制信貸供應的行動導致上市數量較去年同期下降 32%，越南的收入較 22 年第一季度下降了 34%。我們對越南房地產市場的長期發展抱有堅定的信心。儘管我們的業務繼續受到近期挑戰的影響，但我們認為增強的產品和搜索能力將增加更大的價值，並為信貸環境改善後的增長奠定基礎。

In the quarter, the average revenue per listing, or ARPL, in Vietnam was roughly flat with the first quarter of 2022, and the adjusted EBITDA margin was negative 28%.

本季度，越南每家上市的平均收入（ARPL）與 2022 年第一季度大致持平，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為負 28%。

Finally, fintech and data services combined revenue was up 40% year-over-year, and adjusted EBITDA was a loss of $2 million as we build out these longer-term opportunities.

最後，金融科技和數據服務的綜合收入同比增長 40%，而在我們拓展這些長期機會時，調整後的 EBITDA 損失了 200 萬美元。

Moving to the balance sheet. We ended the quarter with $294 million in cash. We are encouraged by the types of M&A opportunities we are seeing as we look to deploy further available capital in adjacent data, fintech, home services and developer operating system businesses.

轉向資產負債表。本季度結束時，我們的現金為 2.94 億美元。當我們希望在鄰近數據、金融科技、家庭服務和開發商操作系統業務中部署更多可用資本時，我們看到的各種併購機會讓我們感到鼓舞。

As Hari mentioned earlier, we are reaffirming our full year 2023 outlook of between $160 million and $170 million in revenue and $11 million to $15 million in adjusted EBITDA. While we acknowledge the headwinds faced in Vietnam, we remain comfortable with our assessment of the near-term impact of governmental actions to limit credit and have a proven plan in place to deliver longer-term growth while safeguarding profitability. Once past this period of uncertainty, we remain poised to take advantage of both the macro outperformance of our core Southeast Asian marketplaces and positive demographic trends related to property ownership.

正如 Hari 之前提到的，我們重申 2023 年全年收入預期為 1.6 億至 1.7 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 1,100 萬至 1,500 萬美元。雖然我們承認越南面臨的阻力，但我們仍然對政府限制信貸行為的近期影響進行評估，並製定了行之有效的計劃，以在保障盈利能力的同時實現長期增長。一旦度過了這段不確定時期，我們仍然準備充分利用我們核心東南亞市場的宏觀表現以及與房產所有權相關的積極的人口趨勢。

I would like to point out that I'm particularly pleased with how well the business has reacted to current market conditions as we utilize technology, internal automation and prudent cost management to improve adjusted EBITDA.

我想指出的是，我對公司對當前市場狀況的反應非常滿意，因為我們利用技術、內部自動化和審慎的成本管理來改善調整後的 EBITDA。

While we recently held our 1-year anniversary of being a publicly traded company, PropertyGuru has a 15-year legacy of technological innovation that has enabled us to become Southeast Asia's proptech leader.

雖然我們最近舉行了上市公司一周年紀念日，但 PropertyGuru 擁有 15 年的技術創新傳統，使我們能夠成為東南亞房地產科技的領導者。

Let me finish by thanking our customers for their steadfast support. Without you, we cannot have become the industry leader we are today.

最後，我要感謝客戶的堅定支持。沒有你們，我們不可能成為今天的行業領導者。

I will now turn the call over for questions. Operator, we're ready for our first question.

我現在將轉接電話詢問問題。接線員，我們準備好回答第一個問題了。

(Operator Instructions) So our first question is going to come from Nick Jones of JMP.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題將來自 JMP 的 Nick Jones。

Can you hear me?

你能聽到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Sorry about that, guys. So I guess just on -- some of the headwinds in Vietnam and as we think about the rest of the year, I guess what -- can you maybe speak to what gives you confidence, you maintained kind of the prior guidance that you can achieve that, or there's not potentially kind of increased pressure as we progress through 2023?

抱歉，伙計們。所以我想，越南的一些逆風，當我們考慮今年剩下的時間時，我想，你能談談什麼給了你信心，你保持了之前可以實現的指導嗎？或者說，隨著 2023 年的進展，壓力不會增加？

I mean first off question, Nick, it's -- I guess from our perspective, there are a couple of things. I think what we have tried to do is make sure that in this interim period, we are not -- we continue to invest in the business. We've launched like I mentioned in my remarks, an improved search experience. We're seeing good adoption. Considering the constraints of some of the premium products that we have shipped for agents, it significantly improved the experience for consumers as well, property seekers in Vietnam. And I think, at a macro level, which is obviously the challenge, we've started to see some positive noises coming from the government. You've had the Deputy Prime Minister recently come out and mention that a consultation period with the real estate sector perhaps is coming to a close and they perhaps are beginning to getting ready to move forward with that.

我的意思是，首先，尼克，我想從我們的角度來看，有幾件事。我認為我們試圖做的是確保在這個過渡時期，我們不會繼續投資該業務。正如我在發言中提到的，我們推出了改進的搜索體驗。我們看到了良好的採用率。考慮到我們為代理商運送的一些優質產品的限制，它也顯著改善了消費者以及越南購房者的體驗。我認為，從宏觀層面來看，這顯然是一個挑戰，我們已經開始看到政府發出一些積極的聲音。副總理最近出面提到，與房地產行業的磋商期可能即將結束，他們可能正開始準備向前推進。

As I mentioned, they have reduced the interest rates. So I think the Vietnamese government has definitely given some positive indications, and that gives us sufficient confidence to believe that at some point in the second half, we should see a bit of an inflection point and a return. And obviously, the product has been significantly upgraded in the meantime, which should allow us to surf that rising wave when it does arrive.

正如我提到的，他們降低了利率。所以我認為越南政府肯定已經給出了一些積極的跡象，這讓我們有足夠的信心相信在下半年的某個時候，我們應該會看到一些拐點和回歸。顯然，該產品同時已經進行了顯著升級，這應該能讓我們在浪潮真正到來時乘風破浪。

Great. And in each quarter, you provide this kind of great engagement market share by region. In the press release, and I noticed Vietnam kind of jumped above 8% from 4Q to 1Q. Can you speak to that? Is that -- are you kind of taking this pullback as an opportunity to try to invest and gain share in the region? I guess could you speak to kind of what the jump was between 4Q and 1Q?

偉大的。在每個季度，您都會按地區提供這種巨大的參與市場份額。在新聞稿中，我注意到越南從第四季度到第一季度躍升了 8% 以上。你能談談嗎？您是否認為這次回調是嘗試在該地區投資並獲得份額的機會？我想你能談談第四季度和第一季度之間的跳躍情況嗎？

I think, to be honest, our focus has been more on the product itself rather than paid marketing or any other form of market share gains in that sense. You've seen a lot of our competitors in the general space, obviously, use this as an opportunity to cool off their marketing spends as they -- simply the demand is lower because of the macro headwinds. And I think -- what tends to happen in those kind of conditions is the organic market leader tends to gain market share. So I believe that's what's happening. If the market would heat up again, I do believe you may see that number come down a little bit as some of our smaller competitors use paid marketing to try and go after it. We're not overly focused on it. I think we -- even coming into the period, the market share was sufficient for us to sort of monetize the market sufficiently. And I think we remain focused more on that.

我認為，說實話，我們的重點更多地放在產品本身，而不是付費營銷或任何其他形式的市場份額收益上。顯然，您已經看到我們在一般領域的許多競爭對手都利用這一機會來冷卻他們的營銷支出，因為他們只是因為宏觀不利因素而導致需求下降。我認為，在這種情況下，有機市場領導者往往會獲得市場份額。所以我相信這就是正在發生的事情。如果市場再次升溫，我相信您可能會看到這個數字略有下降，因為我們的一些較小的競爭對手使用付費營銷來嘗試追趕它。我們並不過分關注它。我認為，即使進入這個時期，市場份額也足以讓我們充分地通過市場貨幣化。我認為我們仍然更加關注這一點。

Great. And 1 last question, if I can. Average revenue per agent in Singapore continues to kind of improve year-over-year. I think it accelerated sequentially. Can you kind of talk to what's driving that number higher? And how we could think about the gross and the average revenue per agent number in Singapore?

偉大的。最後一個問題，如果可以的話。新加坡每個代理商的平均收入繼續逐年提高。我認為它是依次加速的。您能談談是什麼推動了這個數字更高嗎？我們如何考慮新加坡每個代理商的總收入和平均收入？

Yes, I think it's a great question, Nick. And I think it's been heartening because we've also seen the total number of agents grow. So I think that's been interesting because normally with the denominator growing that obviously reduces your ability to grow ARPA. I think what we've seen is, with a really strong property market here in Singapore, agents need to compete. And a number of premium products that our product team has shipped in the last 2 years, have seen strong adoption. And we continue to ship more premium products, and we're seeing strong adoption of them as well. So I think it's product adoption, particularly the premium products that's driving the ARPA growth, as -- and obviously, the agents are having to compete more and more.

是的，我認為這是一個很好的問題，尼克。我認為這令人振奮，因為我們也看到代理總數在增長。所以我認為這很有趣，因為通常隨著分母的增長，顯然會降低 ARPA 增長的能力。我認為我們所看到的是，新加坡房地產市場非常強勁，代理商需要競爭。我們的產品團隊在過去兩年中推出的許多優質產品都得到了廣泛的採用。我們繼續推出更多優質產品，並且我們也看到它們得到了廣泛的採用。因此，我認為產品的採用，尤其是優質產品，推動了 ARPA 的增長，因為很明顯，代理商必須越來越多地競爭。

Some of the cooling measures from the government, as we have noted on previous calls, what they tend to do is it actually means that a listing will probably stay on the platform a little longer, which means the agent needs to compete a little longer. Therefore, at least in the short term, that actually, paradoxically almost helps the platform monetize the agent a little bit better. And so I think it's just been really strong product adoption that's driven ARPA growth.

正如我們在之前的電話會議中指出的那樣，政府採取的一些降溫措施實際上意味著房源可能會在平台上停留更長時間，這意味著代理商需要競爭更長時間。因此，至少在短期內，實際上，矛盾的是，這幾乎幫助平台更好地通過代理貨幣化。因此，我認為正是強勁的產品採用推動了 ARPA 的增長。

Our next question is going to come from Nelson Cheung with Citi.

我們的下一個問題將來自花旗銀行的 Nelson Cheung。

Congratulations on the solid quarter and anniversary of being a public listed company. So my first question is regarding the Singapore market. Yes, we just discussed about the recent property cooling measures such as raising stamp duty and other test measures. Can management elaborate more specifically on how would that impact the transaction activities on our platform into the second quarter and perhaps into the rest of the year?

祝賀您度過了一個穩定的季度，並成為一家上市公司週年紀念日。我的第一個問題是關於新加坡市場。是的，我們剛剛討論了最近的房地產降溫措施，例如提高印花稅和其他測試措施。管理層能否更具體地說明這將如何影響我們平台上第二季度甚至今年剩餘時間的交易活動？

Thank you for the question, Nelson. I think, clearly, the attempt by the government here is to make sure that this very strong property market that we've enjoyed in the second half of 2022 and into the first half of 2023 is balanced by making sure that affordability for the average Singaporean is not compromised. You've seen a lot more foreign buyers come into our market as the world continues to open up post-COVID and more investment dollars have come into the property sector from outside these markets. But the flip side of that coin is that we are seeing a large number -- tens of thousands of units per the Singapore government published an article a few weeks ago, somewhere between 60,000 and 100,000 new units are going to be launched in Singapore through this calendar year. So supply is going to increase significantly.

謝謝你的提問，納爾遜。我認為，顯然，政府的嘗試是通過確保普通新加坡人的負擔能力來確保我們在 2022 年下半年和 2023 年上半年享受到的非常強勁的房地產市場的平衡。沒有受到損害。隨著疫情后世界繼續開放，越來越多的外國買家進入我們的市場，更多的投資資金從這些市場以外進入房地產行業。但硬幣的另一面是，我們看到數量很大——根據新加坡政府幾週前發表的一篇文章，有數万個單位，大約有 60,000 到 100,000 個新單位將通過此在新加坡推出。公曆年。因此供應量將會大幅增加。

And so what you're going to see is, and I also mentioned the GDP growth in the construction sector being really strong, north of 8%, I think that helps us give -- that gives us confidence that, that supply coming online, along with a little bit of cooling of demand as a result of these cooling measures, will make sure that price doesn't get out of control. And that will allow participation in the marketplace to remain robust. The demand side is going to be there because people are not going to get priced out of the market as a result of increased supply as well as the cooling measures. And yet, demand remains very strong from foreign buyers as well.

所以你會看到的是，我還提到建築行業的 GDP 增長非常強勁，超過 8%，我認為這有助於我們給予——這讓我們有信心，供應上線，加上這些降溫措施導致的需求稍微降溫，將確保價格不會失控。這將使市場參與保持強勁。需求方面將會存在，因為人們不會因為供應增加和降溫措施而因價格過高而被擠出市場。然而，外國買家的需求仍然非常強勁。

So I think we remain bullish about the Singapore property market for the rest of the year.

因此，我認為我們在今年剩餘時間內仍然看好新加坡房地產市場。

That's very helpful. And then my second question is related to the Malaysian market. Just wondering with the strong leadership in the Malaysian market, how do management see the position of the 2 brands in the Malaysia market in the future? And how do we see any synergies or potential cannibalization of these 2 brands in the market?

這非常有幫助。我的第二個問題與馬來西亞市場有關。只是想知道，憑藉在馬來西亞市場的強大領導力，管理層如何看待這兩個品牌未來在馬來西亞市場的地位？我們如何看待這兩個品牌在市場上的協同效應或潛在的蠶食？

No, thank you for the question. I think we remain very excited by the performance of both our brands, PropertyGuru and iProperty Malaysia. And what we've seen so far is strong adoption from both agents and property seekers in Malaysia of both brands. People have their own preferences. The products are slightly different. There is some amount of overlap, of course, but there's also -- there are customers who are loyalist to 1 brand or the other. And at least for now, as we've stated in the past, we continue to have this strategy of 2 brands, 1 team. And we're beginning to see a lot of leverage. We're beginning to see the financial performance come through, as Joe noted in his remarks, as well.

不，謝謝你的提問。我認為我們仍然對我們兩個品牌 PropertyGuru 和 iProperty Malaysia 的表現感到非常興奮。到目前為止，我們看到馬來西亞的代理商和購房者都大力採用這兩個品牌。人們有自己的喜好。產品略有不同。當然，存在一定程度的重疊，但也有一些客戶忠於一個品牌或另一個品牌。至少目前，正如我們過去所說，我們繼續採用 2 個品牌、1 個團隊的戰略。我們開始看到很多槓桿作用。正如喬在他的講話中指出的那樣，我們開始看到財務業績的顯現。

I think, for now at least, the goal is to maintain both brands in that country, continue to consult with the market to make sure that's what the Malaysian consumer and agents and developers would like. And I think it is allowing us to solve for the market rather than having to focus on a specific competitor and just fighting amongst ourselves.

我認為，至少目前，目標是在該國保留這兩個品牌，繼續諮詢市場，以確保這是馬來西亞消費者、代理商和開發商所希望的。我認為這讓我們能夠解決市場問題，而不必專注於特定的競爭對手，而只是互相爭鬥。

And then my last question is regarding the macro environment. Under the current rate cycle and inflation environment, can management comment whether these macro factors will still weigh on the property market in the transaction level in the rest of 2023?

我的最後一個問題是關於宏觀環境的。在目前的利率週期和通脹環境下，管理層能否評論這些宏觀因素是否仍會在2023年餘下時間對房地產市場的交易水平構成壓力？

So I think, obviously, I think real estate sector is dependent on interest rate cycles in particular, both the construction side for real estate developers to see the viability of their projects as well as, obviously, for the consumers when it comes to home financing. What we are seeing is in Singapore, as I've already mentioned, even though the interest rates have -- absolutely have increased through last year, we continue to see very strong demand. Malaysia is seeing strong demand. And then in Vietnam, as I noted, interest rates have actually been taken down by the government to try and stimulate demand later in the year. So at least for now, while we remain cautious about what could happen here, it is definitely -- it is a headwind. I wouldn't suggest it isn't. But at least in the short term, we continue to see demand, and some of those macro tailwinds that we've often spoken about, urbanization, emergence of the middle class and digitization, those 3 macro tailwinds, at least for now, overcoming these headwinds that are global.

因此，我認為，顯然，我認為房地產行業尤其依賴於利率週期，無論是房地產開發商的建設方還是消費者在房屋融資方面都可以看到其項目的可行性。正如我已經提到的，我們在新加坡看到的情況是，儘管去年利率絕對上漲，但我們仍然看到非常強勁的需求。馬來西亞的需求強勁。然後在越南，正如我所指出的，政府實際上已經降低了利率，以試圖在今年晚些時候刺激需求。因此，至少目前，雖然我們對這裡可能發生的事情保持謹慎態度，但它絕對是一種逆風。我不建議它不是。但至少在短期內，我們繼續看到需求，以及我們經常談論的一些宏觀順風，城市化、中產階級的出現和數字化，這三個宏觀順風，至少目前來說，克服了這些全球性的逆風。

(Operator Instructions) The next question is going to be from Fawne Jiang with Benchmark.

（操作員說明）下一個問題將由 Benchmark 的 Fawne Jiang 提出。

Two on my side. First, I wanted to dig a little bit deeper on your cost structure. Noticed that the cost of your headquarters seem to went up quarter-on-quarter, year-on-year. Just wonder what's the driver behind it? And I think Hari mentioned that you guys -- in terms of headcount, you guys actually see reduction. Just wonder what's the -- I think, the plan, the budget for 2023?

我這邊有兩個。首先，我想更深入地了解你們的成本結構。注意到你們總部的成本似乎逐季、逐年上漲。只是想知道背後的驅動力是什麼？我認為哈里提到你們——就員工人數而言，你們實際上看到了減少。只是想知道 2023 年的計劃、預算是什麼？

I'll pass back to Hari on headcount. The increase in our corporate cost is solely driven by ongoing listed costs. So obviously, this time last year, we were not a listed company. We only listed March 17 of the prior year. So we had a very small amount of ongoing listed costs. So these are the sort of incremental costs of being listed, so things around D&O insurance, listings fees and compliance, et cetera. But obviously, in this year, we had a full quarter's worth of costs, so that was the -- really the sole driver really of that increase in cost. So that hopefully addresses that question. So over to Hari.

我將把人數轉回哈里。我們企業成本的增加完全是由持續列出的成本驅動的。很明顯，去年這個時候我們還不是上市公司。我們只列出了去年的 3 月 17 日。因此，我們的持續列出成本非常少。這些都是上市的增量成本，包括董事及高級管理人員保險、上市費用和合規性等。但顯然，今年我們的成本相當於整個季度的成本，所以這確實是成本增加的唯一驅動因素。因此，這有望解決這個問題。那麼轉到哈里。

Yes. On the headcount question, I think we are still a high-growth business. We continue to grow well. And so we need to be smart about knowing where to make investments. And so as I mentioned, we have added a few new executives to our leadership team, very excited by their experience and what leverage they're going to add to our business. We've always been smart and deliberate at building out that leadership layer as well as investing in specific areas like product and technology, et cetera. But I think, having said all of that, we do -- we are taking cognizance of the overall macro environment as well as slowdowns in key markets like Vietnam for us. And therefore, as I noted, in Q1, we have seen -- through just active management of the business, we have seen a reduction in our headcount numbers within the group. And that continues to be our mode of operations for the rest of the year. We are continuing to focus on leverage, try to increase efficiencies within the business, assess areas which are growing well, and there, we will invest hard. But other areas where we think perhaps it's not the right time or perhaps the product market fit isn't perfect, we will maybe pause.

是的。關於員工人數問題，我認為我們仍然是一家高增長的企業。我們繼續良好成長。因此，我們需要明智地了解在哪裡進行投資。正如我所提到的，我們在領導團隊中增加了幾位新高管，他們對他們的經驗以及他們將為我們的業務帶來的影響力感到非常興奮。我們在建立領導層以及在產品和技術等特定領域進行投資方面一直很聰明且深思熟慮。但我認為，話雖如此，我們確實意識到了整體宏觀環境以及越南等關鍵市場的放緩。因此，正如我所指出的，在第一季度，我們看到——通過積極的業務管理，我們看到集團內的員工人數有所減少。這仍然是我們今年剩餘時間的運營模式。我們將繼續關注槓桿，努力提高業務效率，評估增長良好的領域，我們將在這些領域進行大力投資。但在其他領域，我們認為現在可能不是合適的時機，或者產品市場契合度不完美，我們可能會暫停。

But I think this is not unique to this year, to be honest. But I think what you are beginning to see is on the headcount side of things, you will see those numbers decline a bit through the year.

但說實話，我認為這並不是今年獨有的情況。但我認為你開始看到的是員工人數方面的情況，你會看到這些數字在一年中略有下降。

And just to add to that as well. I think sort of more broadly on costs, we are seeing some good drop-through from revenue through to EBITDA. We mentioned earlier Malaysia, where sort of over 80% of every incremental dollar spent through to the bottom line. If you sort of adjust or add back for those ongoing listed costs, we've actually had a very good drop-through during the period of around 49%. So I think the business is, despite some challenging conditions in some of our markets, really showing some good overall leverage.

也只是補充一下。我認為從更廣泛的成本角度來看，我們看到從收入到 EBITDA 的一些良好下降。我們之前提到過馬來西亞，每一美元增量的 80% 以上都花在了盈利上。如果你對那些持續列出的成本進行調整或加回來，我們實際上在 49% 左右的時期內有一個非常好的下降。因此，我認為，儘管我們的一些市場面臨一些挑戰，但該業務確實表現出了良好的整體槓桿作用。

Understood. That's clear. My next 1 is actually regarding the generative AI. Hari, you mentioned that the company seem to be excited, seem to invest in the area. Just wonder what are the key benefits you foresee this technology will -- you can leverage the technology to push your business to the next level, whether it's on the potential implication of driving top line or even on the cost optimization. Any color, I think that would be helpful.

明白了。很清楚。我的下一篇實際上是關於生成人工智能的。 Hari，你提到公司似乎很興奮，似乎在該領域進行投資。只是想知道您預見到這項技術將帶來哪些主要好處 - 您可以利用該技術將您的業務推向新的水平，無論是對推動營收的潛在影響，還是成本優化。任何顏色，我認為都會有幫助。

Yes. And I think -- thank you for that question. Like every other technology company in the world, generative AI excites us. We are cautious about what are some of the risks associated with it, of course, and we navigate that with our partners and the rest of the world, frankly. But just before I directly answer the question, we do have a track record of investing in some of these technologies as they emerge. So when machine learning came out, when TensorFlow was made open source, we were among the first companies in Southeast Asia to leverage it on a back-end function. So what we did is, we use it for image recognition, image moderation and significantly improved consumer experience on our platform as a result of using machine learning on the back end of our platform. And this is many years prior to us going public.

是的。我想——謝謝你提出這個問題。與世界上所有其他科技公司一樣，生成式人工智能讓我們興奮不已。當然，我們對與之相關的一些風險持謹慎態度，坦率地說，我們與我們的合作夥伴和世界其他地區一起應對這一風險。但就在我直接回答這個問題之前，我們確實有在其中一些技術出現時進行投資的記錄。因此，當機器學習出現時，當 TensorFlow 開源時，我們是東南亞第一批在後端功能上利用它的公司之一。因此，我們所做的是，我們將其用於圖像識別、圖像審核，並通過在平台後端使用機器學習來顯著改善我們平台上的消費者體驗。這距離我們上市還有很多年。

So we've always been at the bleeding edge of adopting some of these technologies. And so as I mentioned in my remarks, generative AI, we're using it both at the back end to improve -- to help our engineering team look at code quality, significantly look at -- for our CTO and the engineering team to look at productivity within the development org, as Joe has mentioned a few times. We are focused on leverage within the business. And so making sure, while we will invest in engineers, we can look at these technologies to improve productivity.

因此，我們一直處於採用其中一些技術的最前沿。正如我在發言中提到的，生成式人工智能，我們在後端使用它來改進——幫助我們的工程團隊檢查代碼質量，顯著地檢查——讓我們的首席技術官和工程團隊檢查正如 Joe 多次提到的那樣，開發組織內的生產力。我們專注於業務內部的槓桿作用。因此，確保在我們投資工程師的同時，我們可以研究這些技術來提高生產力。

And we have started some experiments on the front end as well, so trying to have agents experiment with some of the generative AI capabilities when it comes to listings, and therefore, improving the quality of the experience for our consumers as well. So I think there's a lot more that's going to come in this space. And hopefully, in the next quarters, I'll be able to share even more.

我們也在前端開始了一些實驗，因此嘗試讓代理商在列表方面嘗試一些生成人工智能功能，從而提高消費者的體驗質量。所以我認為這個領域還會有更多的事情發生。希望在接下來的幾個季度裡，我能夠分享更多。

(Operator Instructions) While we're waiting there, will take 1 that was typed in on the question box, was related to M&A. Are there -- the M&A strategy, are there any -- is there potential to do nontechnology related acquisitions? An example might be acquiring another portal in Southeast Asia. So just elaborate a little bit on the M&A strategy.

（操作員說明）當我們在那裡等待時，將採取在問題框中輸入的 1 項，與併購有關。是否有——併購策略，有沒有——是否有可能進行非技術相關的收購？一個例子可能是收購東南亞的另一個門戶網站。所以稍微詳細說明一下併購策略。

So I think, on M&A, our focus areas, which we've outlined really are on the adjacencies. There really isn't much in the core classified area to actually buy. We have very, very strong positions there. We don't need to really do any further consolidation in our core markets. In terms of the other adjacencies, we look where we operate at the moment, so around fintech. And obviously, there are mortgage brokers really sort of present in our markets, and that's a huge opportunity and something that's obviously very well used in other markets.

所以我認為，在併購方面，我們所概述的重點領域實際上是鄰接地區。核心分類區域中確實沒有太多可以實際購買的東西。我們在那裡擁有非常非常強大的地位。我們實際上不需要在核心市場進行任何進一步的整合。就其他相關領域而言，我們著眼於目前的運營地點，即金融科技。顯然，我們的市場中確實存在抵押貸款經紀人，這是一個巨大的機會，而且顯然在其他市場中得到了很好的利用。

Data as well is another area of focus for us. We're obviously building a data business, but there may be acquisitions we can make. Data is a huge opportunity, billions of dollars in the U.S. and around the world on data.

數據也是我們關注的另一個領域。顯然，我們正在建立數據業務，但我們可能可以進行收購。數據是一個巨大的機會，美國和世界各地的數據價值數十億美元。

Home services, we've already made an investment there in Sendhelper, but we're obviously looking around the region to see other opportunities. And then more broadly in developer operating systems. Developers are on the start of a digital journey in Southeast Asia. So there's things around property management is 1 example, and there's plenty of other things like rent collection, et cetera, and digitizing that. So lots of opportunities in those adjacencies, and that's really where the focus for us lies.

家庭服務方面，我們已經對 Sendhelper 進行了投資，但我們顯然正在該地區尋找其他機會。然後更廣泛地應用於開發者操作系統。開發商正在東南亞開啟數字化之旅。因此，圍繞物業管理的事情就是一個例子，還有很多其他事情，例如租金收取等，並將其數字化。這些鄰近地區有很多機會，這確實是我們關注的重點。

And geography based, we are experts in ASEAN, and that's where we've been very successful. So for now, our focus remains within those markets. But we are excited by the opportunities that we're seeing. There's nothing specific to report back on at this stage. But we've built a Corp Dev team internally, which obviously gives us great leverage to go out there and really look at a range of opportunities, and we'll make sure we come back and update as things progress.

基於地理位置，我們是東盟的專家，這就是我們非常成功的地方。因此，目前我們的重點仍然是這些市場。但我們對所看到的機會感到興奮。現階段沒有什麼具體可報告的。但我們在內部建立了一個公司開發團隊，這顯然為我們提供了很大的優勢，可以走出去並真正尋找一系列機會，並且我們將確保隨著事情的進展回來更新。

Okay. We have a follow-up question from Fawne with Benchmark.

好的。 Fawne 向 Benchmark 提出了後續問題。

Just a quick follow-up here on your fintech business. It seems like it has been growing very healthily. Just wonder how should we look at the fintech segment for the rest of the year given the current market condition? In addition, any consideration of a potential rollout in other markets, whether this year or basically down the road?

這裡只是對您的金融科技業務進行快速跟進。看起來它的成長非常健康。只是想知道，鑑於當前的市場狀況，我們應該如何看待今年剩餘時間的金融科技領域？此外，是否考慮在其他市場推出，無論是今年還是將來？

Yes. I think when it comes to our fintech business, we are pleased. From a standing start in 2022, now have brokered over SGD 4 billion worth of home loans. It's a clear indication that the market is happy to see the value we're adding. We're partnering very closely with banks. There's a lot of innovation we are producing in terms of the experience. And actually, even property agents have been partnering very closely with us to make sure that their clients are correctly advised on the best way to manage their finances. In a changing interest rate environment, even more so people are looking at their household cash flows and all of that.

是的。我認為當談到我們的金融科技業務時，我們很高興。從 2022 年開始，目前已代理了價值超過 40 億新元的住房貸款。這清楚地表明市場很高興看到我們所增加的價值。我們與銀行密切合作。我們在體驗方面進行了很多創新。事實上，即使是房地產經紀人也一直與我們密切合作，以確保他們的客戶得到正確的建議，了解管理財務的最佳方式。在不斷變化的利率環境中，人們更會關注家庭現金流等等。

Having said that, we continue -- Manav, who is our CTO, who has expanded his remit to become MD of that business, is looking, along with his team, at ways in which we can accelerate growth within Singapore on that space. And then to your other point, absolutely, we are looking within our other 5 markets to see is there an opportunity to take either this business model or another version of our fintech business into our other markets. From the beginning, that has always been something we've looked at. But again, 1 of our strengths is we first try and make sure that we know how to execute a particular business in 1 country well before we step out and that's sort of driven the profitability and the steady growth over the last 15 years. So I think that's not different with fintech.

話雖如此，我們繼續——我們的首席技術官馬納夫（Manav）已經擴大了自己的職權範圍，成為了該業務的總經理，他正在與他的團隊一起尋找可以加速新加坡在該領域增長的方法。然後，對於你的另一點，我們正在尋找其他 5 個市場，看看是否有機會將這種商業模式或我們金融科技業務的另一個版本引入我們的其他市場。從一開始，這就是我們一直關注的問題。但同樣，我們的優勢之一是我們在走出去之前首先嘗試並確保我們知道如何在一個國家執行特定業務，這在某種程度上推動了過去 15 年的盈利能力和穩定增長。所以我認為這與金融科技沒有什麼不同。

(Operator Instructions) And meanwhile we'll take another question from the type-in box. Can you elaborate on why building a data business is important for PropertyGuru? Are you modeling the opportunity that CoreLogic has in the U.S.? Is that 1 of your main goals?

（操作員說明）同時，我們將從輸入框中提出另一個問題。您能否詳細說明為什麼建立數據業務對 PropertyGuru 如此重要？您是否正在模擬 CoreLogic 在美國的機會？這是您的主要目標之一嗎？

This is a multibillion-dollar industry in Southeast Asia. And the reality of the fact is, if you compare with North America, as you pointed out, or Australia or Western Europe or Japan, there are large stand-alone property data businesses that inform valuers, REITs, real estate developers, urban planners, consumers, agents, banks, values. They depend on these feeds to have a single source of truth. They are able to make the decisions on their portfolios, investment decisions on land and so on basis this information.

這是東南亞一個價值數十億美元的產業。事實是，如果你與北美、澳大利亞、西歐或日本進行比較，就會發現有大量獨立的房地產數據企業為估價師、房地產投資信託基金、房地產開發商、城市規劃者提供信息，消費者、代理商、銀行、價值觀。他們依靠這些提要來獲得單一的事實來源。他們能夠根據這些信息做出投資組合決策、土地投資決策等。

Our markets, including here in Singapore, we don't have a solution of that nature. Now over the last 15 years, we have, over time, essentially become a de facto source of that. But our consumer marketplaces aren't really -- haven't historically tried to solve for that, to be honest. We've been focused on the home seeker and the property agents, real estate developers in that sense. But now with the introduction of our PropertyGuru for Business portfolios and primarily DataSense, which is our core data business product, we are very much focused on monetizing and sort of creating value in that space. And so there's going to be a lot of good first-party data or proprietary information coming off our marketplaces. But already, we are getting other kinds of information, whether it be flood risk data, mobility data, et cetera, which we are monetizing, which you can see on our -- available on our platforms.

我們的市場，包括新加坡，我們沒有這種性質的解決方案。現在，在過去 15 年裡，隨著時間的推移，我們基本上已經成為這種現象的事實上的來源。但老實說，我們的消費者市場歷史上並沒有真正嘗試解決這個問題。從這個意義上說，我們一直專注於購房者和房地產經紀人、房地產開發商。但現在，隨著我們的 PropertyGuru for Business 產品組合以及主要是 DataSense（我們的核心數據業務產品）的推出，我們非常專注於在該領域實現貨幣化和創造價值。因此，我們的市場上將會出現大量優質的第一方數據或專有信息。但我們已經獲得了其他類型的信息，無論是洪水風險數據、流動性數據等等，我們正在將這些信息貨幣化，您可以在我們的平台上看到這些信息。

But what we want to stress is we are in the insights business rather than the raw data business. Where we can create the most value is by bringing these data sets together, productizing them and making them available to these customers who I mentioned earlier. So yes, we're very excited by the opportunity here. And yes, we will take inspiration from companies like CoreLogic, CoStar, et cetera, to see how they have monetized some of these other markets. But our markets, frankly, remain a greenfield for us to go out and create value.

但我們要強調的是，我們從事的是洞察業務，而不是原始數據業務。我們可以創造最大價值的方法是將這些數據集整合在一起，將它們產品化並提供給我之前提到的這些客戶。所以，是的，我們對這裡的機會感到非常興奮。是的，我們將從 CoreLogic、CoStar 等公司那裡獲得靈感，看看他們如何通過其他一些市場貨幣化。但坦率地說，我們的市場仍然是我們走出去創造價值的綠地。

(Operator Instructions) Okay. It looks like we're done on the Q&A. So that concludes the Q&A session. So I'm going to turn the conference back to Hari for any closing remarks.

（操作員指示）好的。看起來我們已經完成了問答。問答環節到此結束。因此，我將把會議轉回哈里進行閉幕致辭。

Thank you. We look forward to sharing our continued progress with you next quarter as Southeast Asia's property sector continues to grow to house its emerging middle class. Until then, thank you all for joining us today. Goodbye.

謝謝。隨著東南亞房地產行業持續增長以容納新興中產階級，我們期待在下個季度與您分享我們的持續進展。在此之前，感謝大家今天加入我們。再見。

So this concludes conference call. You can all now disconnect.

電話會議到此結束。現在你們都可以斷開連接了。