PennyMac Financial Services Inc (PFSI) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and welcome to PennyMac's Financial Services Inc's first quarter 2025 earnings call. Additional earnings materials, including presentation slides that will be referred to in this call are available on PennyMac's financial website at pfsi.pennymac.com.

下午好，歡迎參加 PennyMac 金融服務公司 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。其他收益資料（包括本次電話會議中提到的簡報幻燈片）可在 PennyMac 的財務網站 pfsi.pennymac.com 上找到。

Before we begin, let me remind you that this call may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to certain risks identified on slide 2 of the earnings presentation that could cause the company's actual results to differ materially as well as non-GAAP measures that have been reconciled to their GAAP equivalent in the earnings materials. I'd now like to introduce David Spector, PennyMac Financial's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Dan Perotti, PennyMac Financial's Chief Financial Officer.

在我們開始之前，請允許我提醒您，本次電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受到收益報告第 2 張幻燈片中確定的某些風險的影響，這些風險可能導致公司的實際結果出現重大差異，以及已與收益材料中的 GAAP 等值指標相協調的非 GAAP 指標。現在，我想介紹 PennyMac Financial 的董事長兼執行長 David Spector 和 PennyMac Financial 的財務長 Dan Perotti。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, and thank you to everyone for participating in our first quarter earnings call. For the first quarter, PFSI reported net income of $76 million or diluted earnings per share of $1.42 for an annualized return on equity of 8%. Excluding the impact of fair value changes, PFSI produced an annualized operating ROE of 15%, driven by continued strength in our servicing business and a solid contribution from our Production segment despite elevated mortgage rates.

謝謝您，接線生。下午好，感謝大家參加我們的第一季財報電話會議。第一季度，PFSI 報告淨收入為 7,600 萬美元，每股攤薄收益為 1.42 美元，年化股本回報率為 8%。排除公允價值變動的影響，儘管抵押貸款利率上升，但 PFSI 的年化營業 ROE 為 15%，這得益於我們服務業務的持續強勁以及生產部門的穩健貢獻。

In total, loan originations and acquisitions were $29 billion in unpaid principal balance, driving the continued growth of our servicing portfolio to $680 billion in unpaid principal balance with 2.7 million households. Before reviewing our quarterly results in greater detail, I would like to highlight our newly announced partnership with Team USA and the LA28 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

總體而言，貸款發放和收購的未償還本金餘額為 290 億美元，推動我們的服務組合持續成長，未償還本金餘額達到 6,800 億美元，涉及 270 萬戶家庭。在更詳細地回顧我們的季度業績之前，我想先強調一下我們新宣布的與美國隊以及洛杉磯28奧運會和殘奧會的合作夥伴關係。

In recent periods, we have made significant investments in technology and capacity. And given our market position as the second largest producer of mortgage loans and the sixth largest servicer in the country, we are well positioned for sustained investment in our brand.

近年來，我們在技術和產能方面進行了大量投資。鑑於我們在全國第二大抵押貸款提供者和第六大服務商的市場地位，我們完全有能力持續投資於我們的品牌。

This strategic four year partnership is a powerful catalyst for our business. We will elevate our brand with our customers, business partners and employees while connecting PennyMac with the shared values of respect and excellence embodied by the US Olympic and Paralympic movement. Team USA has a massive fan base offering unparalleled reach. And brand association with the Olympic and Paralympic Games drives increased engagement, memorability and ultimately greater customer consideration.

這項為期四年的策略夥伴關係對我們的業務而言是一個強大的催化劑。我們將與客戶、業務合作夥伴和員工一起提升我們的品牌，同時將 PennyMac 與美國奧林匹克和殘奧會所體現的尊重和卓越的共同價值觀聯繫起來。美國隊擁有龐大的球迷群體，影響力無與倫比。而品牌與奧運和殘奧的聯繫則能提高品牌的參與度、記憶度，最終贏得更多客戶的青睞。

This marks the first significant investment in our brand, building upon our established success in performance marketing. We expect the partnership to boost both portfolio recapture and nonportfolio customer acquisition with integrated campaigns and athlete partnerships that deliver the message of the importance of home and homeownership.

這是我們對品牌的首次重大投資，鞏固了我們在績效行銷方面的成功。我們期望透過綜合活動和運動員合作夥伴關係來傳遞房屋和房屋所有權重要性的訊息，從而促進投資組合的重新奪回和非投資組合客戶的獲取。

Additionally, this partnership is a key driver in our strategy to expand our market share in broker direct. Our association with Team USA will also foster a stronger sense of pride and purpose among our employees. And as we look to grow our employee base, this partnership increases PennyMac's value proposition as an employer of choice. It is important to note that this partnership is a strategic four year investment that we've structured to align with our financial discipline.

此外，此次合作是我們擴大經紀直銷市場佔有率策略的關鍵驅動力。我們與美國隊的聯繫也將增強員工的自豪感和使命感。隨著我們尋求擴大員工隊伍，此次合作也提升了 PennyMac 作為首選雇主的價值主張。值得注意的是，此次合作是一項為期四年的策略性投資，我們已將其建構成符合我們財務紀律的合作形式。

The related expenses will be lower in the early years of the partnership, gradually building into the culmination of the LA28 games. This phased approach allows us to strategically build brand relevance, awareness and engagement without significant upfront costs. We are incredibly enthusiastic about the opportunities this partnership presents and its potential to drive significant value across all facets of our business. Now turning to the origination market.

在合作初期，相關費用會較低，並會逐漸增加，直到洛杉磯28運動會達到高潮。這種分階段的方法使我們能夠在不投入大量前期成本的情況下策略性地建立品牌相關性、知名度和參與度。我們對此次合作帶來的機會及其為我們業務的各個方面帶來的巨大價值的潛力充滿熱情。現在轉向起源市場。

Current third-party estimates forecast total originations of $2 trillion in 2025, reflecting projections for growth in overall volumes with moderate contributions from both refinance and purchase. Despite broader economic volatility, industry consolidation and regulatory change, we remain intensely focused on the organic growth of our servicing portfolio and the continued development of our balanced business model and we are committed to successfully navigating this economic landscape without distraction.

目前第三方估計預測2025年的總發放將達到2兆美元，這反映了整體額度成長的預測，其中再融資和購買均將做出適度貢獻。儘管經濟波動、行業整合和監管變化日益加劇，我們仍然高度關注服務組合的有機成長和平衡業務模式的持續發展，並致力於在經濟形勢下順利前行，不受干擾。

As we've highlighted on slide 7, our synergistic relationship with PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust, or PMT, continues to provide us with a unique competitive advantage. Our deep and experienced management team has built a best-in-class operating platform that includes a large and agile multichannel origination business and the scale servicing operations, both supported by industry-leading technology and processes we've thoughtfully developed over our long history. As we have demonstrated, this strategically built platform provides us the ability to generate strong returns for our stockholders across different market environments.

正如我們在第 7 張投影片上所強調的那樣，我們與 PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust（PMT）的協同關係繼續為我們提供獨特的競爭優勢。我們經驗豐富的管理團隊已經建立了一流的營運平台，其中包括大型靈活的多通路發起業務和規模服務運營，這兩項業務均由我們在悠久歷史中精心開發的行業領先技術和流程提供支援。正如我們所展示的，這個策略性建構的平台使我們能夠在不同的市場環境中為股東創造豐厚的回報。

As a mortgage REIT, PMT provides a tax advantaged balance sheet to hold and invest in long-term mortgage assets. This model enables PFSI to generate capital-light recurring revenue streams in the form of servicing fees, fulfillment fees and management fees. PFSI's deep access to the origination market, combined with PMT's ability to execute private label securitizations and retain the related investments provide both entities the opportunity to capitalize on the evolving landscape for secondary market execution should the GSEs reduce their overall footprint.

作為抵押房地產投資信託基金 (REIT)，PMT 提供稅收優惠資產負債表來持有和投資長期抵押資產。此模式使 PFSI 能夠以服務費、履行費和管理費的形式產生輕資本的經常性收入流。PFSI 對發起市場的深度訪問，加上 PMT 執行私人標籤證券化和保留相關投資的能力，為這兩個實體提供了機會，如果政府支持企業減少其整體足跡，它們將能夠利用不斷變化的二級市場執行格局。

We have repeatedly demonstrated that our balanced and diversified business model with leadership in both production and servicing and our dynamic hedging program enables strong financial performance and a foundation for continued growth as an industry-leading mortgage company regardless of the direction of interest rates.

我們已多次證明，無論利率走向如何，我們均衡、多樣化的商業模式、在生產和服務領域的領先地位以及動態的對沖計劃都能確保我們取得強勁的財務業績，並為作為行業領先的抵押貸款公司持續增長奠定基礎。

As you can see on slide 8 of our presentation, we have produced operating returns on equity in the mid-teens during periods of higher rates, with the potential for increased returns when mortgage rates decline, as evidenced by our performance in the third quarter of last year.

正如您在我們簡報的第 8 張幻燈片中看到的，在利率較高時期，我們的營業股本回報率達到了十幾歲左右，而當抵押貸款利率下降時，回報率有可能會增加，去年第三季度的表現就證明了這一點。

Our large servicing business provides ongoing revenue and cash flow contributions in this higher rate environment and continues to provide the foundation for strong financial performance in the future. The unpaid principal balance of our servicing portfolio increased 2% from the prior quarter and 10% from March 31, 2024, as production volumes more than offset runoff from prepayments.

我們的大型服務業務在高利率環境下提供了持續的收入和現金流貢獻，並繼續為未來強勁的財務表現奠定基礎。由於產量超過了預付款的流失，我們服務組合的未償還本金餘額較上一季增加了 2%，較 2024 年 3 月 31 日增加了 10%。

Because we retain the servicing rights on nearly all mortgage loan production and it's been one of the largest producers of mortgage loans in recent periods, we are uniquely positioned in the industry. Our large and growing portfolio of borrowers who recently entered into mortgages at higher rates stand to benefit from a refinance in the future when interest rates decline, positioning our Consumer Direct lending division for strong future growth.

由於我們保留了幾乎所有抵押貸款的服務權，並且是近年來最大的抵押貸款生產商之一，因此我們在行業中具有獨特的地位。我們龐大且不斷增長的借款人組合近期以更高的利率簽訂了抵押貸款，當利率下降時，他們將從未來的再融資中受益，這使我們的消費者直接貸款部門在未來實現強勁增長。

On slide 9 of our earnings presentation, you can see that as of March 31, $240 billion in unpaid principal balance or 35% of the loans in our portfolio had a note rate above 5%. Approximately $107 billion were government loans and approximately $133 billion were conventional and other loans. The opportunity for earnings growth is highlighted on this slide, along with our historic refinance recapture rates, which have improved significantly from five years ago as a result of our ongoing technology enhancements and process improvements.

在我們的收益報告第 9 張投影片上，您可以看到，截至 3 月 31 日，未償還本金餘額為 2,400 億美元，即我們投資組合中 35% 的貸款的票據利率超過 5%。其中約 1,070 億美元為政府貸款，約 1,330 億美元為常規貸款和其他貸款。這張投影片重點強調了獲利成長的機會，以及我們的歷史再融資回收率。由於我們不斷的技術改進和流程改進，此回收率較五年前有了顯著提高。

We expect these recapture rates to continue improving given our multiyear investments combined with the increased investment in our brand, as mentioned earlier, and use of targeted marketing strategies.

鑑於我們多年的投資以及前面提到的對品牌的增加的投資以及有針對性的營銷策略的使用，我們預計這些回收率將繼續提高。

Slide 10 illustrates the advantages of growing our servicing portfolio organically via our own production, a key differentiator for PennyMac Financial. We can consistently source loans through different channels, depending on the market environment, and our servicing portfolio growth has been more consistent than others that grew primarily through bulk acquisitions.

幻燈片 10 展示了透過我們自己的生產有機地擴大我們的服務組合的優勢，這是 PennyMac Financial 的關鍵區別因素。根據市場環境，我們可以透過不同的管道持續獲得貸款，而且我們的服務組合成長比主要透過大量收購實現成長的其他公司更穩定。

Loan-by-loan processing gives us the ability to perform diligence and compliance reviews for all of the loans we produce and ultimately service, leading to increased fraud detection and minimal defect rates versus bulk MSR purchases. This is evidenced by the strong historical performance of our MSR assets with lower delinquencies, especially in recently originated loan vintages relative to the broader industry, which validates the efficacy of our prudent credit strategy.

逐筆貸款處理使我們能夠對我們發放並最終提供服務的所有貸款進行盡職調查和合規性審查，從而提高欺詐檢測率，並將批量 MSR 採購的缺陷率降至最低。我們的 MSR 資產的歷史表現強勁，拖欠率較低，特別是相對於整個產業而言近期發放的貸款，證明了我們審慎的信貸策略的有效性。

As I briefly discussed, our large and growing servicing portfolio is a key asset, anchoring our core operational results in this higher interest rate environment and driving low-cost leads to our Consumer Direct division.

正如我簡要討論過的，我們龐大且不斷增長的服務組合是一項關鍵資產，它鞏固了我們在高利率環境下的核心營運業績，並為我們的消費者直銷部門帶來了低成本的銷售線索。

On slide 11, you can see the strong revenue contributions from our servicing portfolio in recent periods, with growth driven by our portfolio expansion and the higher proportion of owned servicing in recent periods as well as increased placement fees due to elevated short-term interest rates. Throughout our history, we have been focused on deploying new and emerging technologies to drive efficiencies and lower costs as evidenced by the chart on the right, which highlights the continued decline in our per loan servicing expenses in 2019.

在第 11 張投影片上，您可以看到我們服務組合在近期貢獻的強勁收入，成長的動力來自我們組合的擴張和近期自有服務佔比的提高，以及由於短期利率上升導致的安置費增加。在我們的歷史上，我們一直專注於部署新興技術來提高效率和降低成本，如右側圖表所示，該圖表突出顯示了 2019 年我們每筆貸款服務費用的持續下降。

We continue to demonstrate the ability of our servicing workflows and technology to scale efficiently with our growth while also providing our servicing associates with the tools they need to best serve our customers. Given our best-in-class proprietary technologies with advanced capabilities and our unmatched excellence in servicing, we are committed to expanding our subservicing business beyond P&T, and we deliver a compelling value proposition to MSR owners.

我們繼續展示我們的服務工作流程和技術能夠隨著我們的發展而有效擴展的能力，同時也為我們的服務人員提供他們為客戶提供最佳服務所需的工具。憑藉我們一流的專有技術、先進的功能以及無與倫比的卓越服務，我們致力於將我們的轉售服務業務拓展到 P&T 之外，並為 MSR 業主提供極具吸引力的價值主張。

This includes superior capabilities for both performing and nonperforming loans powered by our proprietary technology and extensive customer self-service capabilities. And MSR owners that utilize PennyMac as a sub-servicer can leverage our robust marketing and recapture tools to generate leads and best support their origination efforts.

這包括由我們的專有技術和廣泛的客戶自助服務功能提供支援的針對正常貸款和不良貸款的卓越能力。利用 PennyMac 作為子服務商的 MSR 所有者可以利用我們強大的行銷和重新捕獲工具來產生潛在客戶並最好地支持他們的發起工作。

On slide 12, you can see we've signed our first three clients with one already onboarded, and we are actively engaged with 20 additional prospects that represent approximately $65 billion in UPB. Beyond that, we estimate our correspondent sellers collectively own approximately $465 billion in unpaid principal balance of services and that the total addressable market for subservicing is approximately $4 trillion.

在第 12 張投影片上，您可以看到我們已經簽下了前三名客戶，其中一名已經加入，我們正在積極與另外 20 名潛在客戶接洽，這些客戶的 UPB 總額約為 650 億美元。除此之外，我們估計我們的代理賣方總共擁有約 4,650 億美元的未付服務本金餘額，而次級服務的總可尋址市場約為 4 兆美元。

Given consideration to changing market dynamics, we expect further market penetration aiming to capture a broader share of MSR owners who are seeking a best-in-class, low-cost sub-servicer. This strategic focus on subservicing is a testament to our commitment to diversifying our revenue streams while maximizing the value of our servicing platform. It is for all of these reasons that I am confident in our ability to continue driving strong financial performance in this volatile environment no matter the direction of interest rates.

考慮到不斷變化的市場動態，我們預計市場滲透將進一步擴大，旨在吸引更多尋求一流、低成本子服務商的 MSR 船東。這種對次級服務的策略重點證明了我們致力於實現收入來源多元化，同時最大化服務平台的價值。正是由於所有這些原因，我相信無論利率走向如何，我們都有能力在這種動盪的環境中繼續保持強勁的財務表現。

I will now turn it over to Dan, who will review the drivers of PFSI's first quarter financial performance.

現在我將把時間交給丹，他將回顧 PFSI 第一季財務表現的驅動因素。

Thank you, David. PFSI reported net income of $76 million in the first quarter or $1.42 in earnings per share for an annualized ROE of 8%. These results included $99 million of fair value declines on MSRs, net of hedges and costs, and the impact of these items on diluted earnings per share was negative $1.35. PFSI's Board of Directors declared a first quarter common share dividend of $0.30 per share.

謝謝你，大衛。PFSI 報告第一季淨收入為 7,600 萬美元，每股收益 1.42 美元，年化 ROE 為 8%。這些業績包括9,900萬美元的MSR公允價值下降（扣除對沖和成本），這些項目對每股攤薄收益的影響為負1.35美元。 PFSI董事會宣布第一季普通股股息為每股0.30美元。

Beginning with our production segment. Pre-tax income was $62 million, down from $78 million in the prior quarter. Total acquisition and origination volumes were $29 billion in unpaid principal balance, down 19% from the prior quarter and consistent with the decline in the overall market. Of total acquisitions and origination volumes, $26 billion was for PFSI's own account, and $3 billion was fee-based fulfillment activity for PMT. Total lock volumes were $34 billion in UPB, down just 6% from the prior quarter.

從我們的生產部門開始。稅前收入為 6,200 萬美元，低於上一季的 7,800 萬美元。總收購和發起額的未償還本金餘額為 290 億美元，較上一季下降 19%，與整體市場的下滑趨勢一致。在總收購和發起額中，有 260 億美元來自 PFSI 的自有帳戶，30 億美元來自 PMT 的收費履行活動。UPB 的總鎖定量為 340 億美元，僅比上一季下降 6%。

PennyMac maintained its dominant position in correspondent lending in the first quarter with total acquisitions of $23 billion, down from $28 billion in the prior quarter. Corresponding channel margins in the first quarter were 27 basis points, unchanged from the prior quarter. Fallout adjusted locks for PFSI's own account were down from the prior quarter, which drove a lower revenue contribution. PMT retained 21% of total conventional conforming correspondent production, up slightly from 19% in the prior quarter.

PennyMac 第一季在代理貸款領域保持主導地位，總收購額為 230 億美元，低於上一季的 280 億美元。第一季對應通路利潤率為27個基點，與上一季持平。PFSI 自有帳戶的調整後鎖定額較上一季下降，導致營收貢獻下降。PMT 保留了常規符合對應產量的 21%，略高於上一季的 19%。

In the second quarter, we expect PMT to retain approximately 15% to 25% of total conventional conforming correspondent production, consistent with first quarter levels. Of note, pursuant to our renewed mortgage banking agreement with PMT, beginning in the third quarter of 2025, all correspondent loans will initially be acquired by PFSI. However, PMT will retain the right to purchase up to 100% of nongovernment correspondent loan production.

在第二季度，我們預計 PMT 將保留約 15% 至 25% 的常規符合對應產量，與第一季的水平一致。值得注意的是，根據我們與 PMT 續約的抵押貸款銀行協議，從 2025 年第三季開始，所有代理貸款將首先由 PFSI 收購。不過，PMT 將保留購買高達 100% 非政府代理貸款產品的權利。

In broker direct, we continue to see strong trends and continued growth in market share as we position PennyMac as a strong alternative to channel leaders. Originations in the channel were down 21% from the prior quarter as many of the loans locked when rates declined in the third quarter of 2024 funded in the prior quarter.

在經紀直銷領域，我們繼續看到強勁的趨勢和市場份額的持續成長，因為我們將 PennyMac 定位為通路領導者的有力替代品。該通路的貸款發放量較上一季下降了 21%，因為許多貸款在 2024 年第三季利率下降時被鎖定，而這些貸款是在上一季融資的。

Locked volumes in the first quarter were up 23% from the prior quarter as we continued growing our market position and as we enter the spring and summer home-buying season. The number of brokers approved to do business with us at year-end was up -- was over 4,850, up 19% from the end of last year, and we expect this number to continue growing as top brokers increasingly look for strength and diversification in their business partners.

隨著我們繼續提升市場地位並進入春夏購屋季節，第一季的鎖定量較上一季成長了 23%。截至年底，獲準與我們開展業務的經紀商數量已超過 4,850 家，較去年年底增長 19%，我們預計這一數字還將繼續增長，因為頂級經紀商越來越多地尋求業務合作夥伴的實力和多樣化。

Broker channel margins were down slightly from the prior quarter as lower industry volumes resulted in more competitive pricing. We saw similar volume trends in Consumer Direct with origination volumes down 24% from the prior quarter but lock volumes up 6%. Margins in the channel were up due to a larger mix of higher-margin closed-end second liens during the quarter. Activity across our channels in April has been up, reflecting lower mortgage rates in the beginning of the month and typical seasonality.

由於產業交易量下降導致定價更具競爭力，經紀通路利潤率較上一季略有下降。我們在消費者直銷中看到了類似的交易量趨勢，發起量較上一季下降了 24%，但鎖定量上升了 6%。由於本季利潤率較高的封閉式第二留置權組合規模較大，通路利潤率上升。四月份我們各個通路的活動都有所增加，這反映了月初抵押貸款利率較低以及典型的季節性因素。

Production expenses net of loan origination expense increased 5% from the prior quarter, partially due to seasonal compensation impacts. It is our preference to hold a level of excess origination capacity in the current market environment, given our belief that volatility in interest and mortgage rates will provide pockets of opportunity from time to time and that we will need to be quick to react.

扣除貸款發放費用後的生產費用較上一季增加了 5%，部分原因是季節性薪資的影響。鑑於我們相信利率和抵押貸款利率的波動會不時帶來機會，我們需要迅速做出反應，因此我們傾向於在當前市場環境下保持一定程度的過剩發起能力。

Turning to servicing. The Servicing segment recorded pre-tax income of $76 million. Excluding valuation-related changes, pre-tax income was $172 million or 10.2 basis points of average servicing portfolio UPB, down slightly from 10.3 basis points in the prior quarter. Loan servicing fees were up from the prior quarter, primarily due to growth in PFSI's owned portfolio. Custodial funds managed for PFSI's owned portfolio averaged $6.2 billion in the first quarter, down from $7.3 billion in the fourth quarter due to seasonal impacts and lower prepayments.

轉向服務。服務部門的稅前收入為 7,600 萬美元。不包括與估值相關的變化，稅前收入為 1.72 億美元或平均服務組合 UPB 的 10.2 個基點，略低於上一季的 10.3 個基點。貸款服務費較上一季上漲，主要原因是 PFSI 自有投資組合的成長。由於季節性影響和預付款減少，PFSI 自有投資組合管理的託管資金在第一季平均為 62 億美元，低於第四季的 73 億美元。

As a result, earnings on custodial balances and deposits and other income decreased. Realization of MSR cash flows increased from the prior quarter due to continued growth in the owned portfolio and expectations for higher prepayment activity in the future. Operating expenses were essentially unchanged from the prior quarter at $81 million or 4.8 basis points of average -- average servicing portfolio UPB, down from 5 basis points in the prior quarter and representing an all-time quarterly low level.

結果，託管餘額和存款收益以及其他收入減少。由於自有投資組合的持續成長以及對未來預付款活動增加的預期，MSR 現金流的實現較上一季增加。營運費用與上一季基本持平，為 8,100 萬美元，即平均服務組合 UPB 的 4.8 個基點，低於上一季的 5 個基點，創下季度歷史新低。

We seek to moderate the impact of interest rate changes on the fair value of our MSR asset through a comprehensive hedging strategy that also considers production-related income. For example, when refinance volumes and production-related income are highly responsive to changes in interest rates, our targeted hedge ratio can decline to as low as 60%. And when refinance volumes and production-related income are less responsive to changes in interest rates, our targeted hedge ratio can increase to as high as 100%.

我們力求透過綜合避險策略（同時考慮生產相關收入）來緩和利率變動對 MSR 資產公允價值的影響。例如，當再融資量和生產相關收入對利率變化高度敏感時，我們的目標對沖比率可能會下降至 60%。當再融資量和生產相關收入對利率變化的反應較弱時，我們的目標對沖比率可以增加至 100%。

The fair value of PFSI's MSR decreased by $205 million in the first quarter. Of that, $183 million was due to lower market interest rates, which drove expectations for higher prepayment activity in the future and $23 million was due primarily to prepayments that were faster than modeled and other factors. Excluding costs, hedging gains were $131 million. Hedge costs were $24 million. Our targeted hedge ratio moved lower during the quarter as interest rates declined and other factors such as the change in the shape of the yield curve had a slightly negative impact.

PFSI 的 MSR 的公允價值在第一季減少了 2.05 億美元。其中，1.83億美元是由於市場利率下降，從而推動了對未來預付款活動增加的預期，而2300萬美元主要是由於預付款速度快於模型和其他因素。除去成本，對沖收益為 1.31 億美元。對沖成本為 2400 萬美元。由於利率下降以及殖利率曲線形狀變化等其他因素產生輕微負面影響，我們的目標對沖比率在本季有所下降。

Each of these two factors decreased our hedge effectiveness during the quarter by about 10% versus the 90% to 100% range previously communicated. At current rate levels, our targeted hedge ratio is in the 80% to 90% range. Thus far in the second quarter, interest rates have been extremely volatile. As a result, our hedge target ratio has varied and it may change throughout the quarter if this level of volatility continues.

這兩個因素都導致我們本季的對沖有效性下降了約 10%，而先前所述的對沖有效性範圍為 90% 至 100%。在目前利率水準下，我們的目標對沖比率在 80% 至 90% 之間。截至目前，第二季利率一直極不穩定。因此，我們的對沖目標比率已經發生了變化，如果這種波動程度持續下去，它可能會在整個季度發生變化。

Additionally, hedge costs thus far in the second quarter have been elevated. Corporate and other items contributed a pre-tax loss of $34 million compared to $36 million in the prior quarter. PFSI recorded a provision for tax expense of $28 million, resulting in an effective tax rate of 26.8%. In February, we successfully issued $850 million of unsecured senior notes due in 2033. We used proceeds to reduce the outstanding balance of our secured revolving bank financing lines.

此外，第二季迄今的對沖成本已經上升。公司及其他項目導致稅前虧損 3,400 萬美元，而上一季為 3,600 萬美元。PFSI 記錄了 2800 萬美元的稅費準備金，導致有效稅率為 26.8%。2 月份，我們成功發行了 2033 年到期的 8.5 億美元無擔保優先票據。我們利用收益來減少有擔保循環銀行融資額度的未償餘額。

Regarding the upcoming maturity of $650 million in unsecured senior notes due in October of 2025, we have ample liquidity to retire the notes with additional flexibility to draw on our available revolving bank financing lines. We ended the quarter with $4 billion of total liquidity, which includes cash and amounts available to draw on facilities where we have collateral pledged.

對於即將於 2025 年 10 月到期的 6.5 億美元無擔保優先票據，我們擁有充足的流動資金來贖回這些票據，並可靈活利用我們可用的循環銀行融資額度。本季結束時，我們的總流動資金為 40 億美元，其中包括現金和可供我們使用抵押品的設施中使用的金額。

We'll now open it up for questions. Operator?

我們現在開始回答問題。操作員？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Michael Kaye, Wells Fargo.

麥可凱耶，富國銀行。

There's been an uptick in M&A in the sector, particularly Rocket's acquisition of Mr. Cooper. I wanted to see if you felt this was a greater competitive threat, perhaps in a correspondent channel. And maybe perhaps on the contrary, it could create some more subservicing business? Maybe just some thoughts on that.

該行業的併購活動有所增加，尤其是 Rocket 公司對 Mr. Cooper 的收購。我想看看您是否認為這是一個更大的競爭威脅，也許是在相應的管道中。或許恰恰相反，它可能會創造更多的次級服務業務？也許只是對此的一些想法。

So look, there have been -- with this transaction, there's been a lot of discussions that have been taking place in the industry. I have tremendous respect for both management teams and the businesses they built. I think I take great comfort in our earnings stability over the years, and it's demonstrating the power of the balanced business model. And while this transaction may try to duplicate that, I think what we've created is so powerful that I don't know if it can be duplicated.

所以看，關於這筆交易，業界已經有很多討論。我非常尊重這兩個管理團隊以及他們所建立的企業。我認為多年來我們的獲利穩定性讓我感到非常欣慰，這證明了平衡商業模式的力量。雖然這筆交易可能會試圖複製這一點，但我認為我們所創造的東西是如此強大，我不知道它是否可以被複製。

We are going to continue to focus on organic growth of our servicing portfolio and continue development of the balanced business model. We don't have any distractions here at the company. And I don't know if others in the industry can say the same thing, but we're going to continue to be the number one correspondent aggregator, and we're going to continue our dominance there. And our dominance there comes from the fact that our ability to process at a cost structure that I've not seen anywhere else in the industry is not something that can be easily duplicated.

我們將繼續專注於服務組合的有機成長，並繼續發展平衡的商業模式。在公司裡我們不會受到任何干擾。我不知道業內其他人是否會這麼說，但我們將繼續成為第一大通訊聚合商，並將繼續在那裡保持主導地位。我們在那裡的主導地位源於這樣一個事實：我們能夠以業內其他任何地方都未曾見過的成本結構進行處理，而這種成本結構是無法輕易複製的。

I think that we have tremendous opportunity in our broker direct channels. You can see we -- year-over-year, we've grown our market share from 3.5% to almost 5%, and we're well on our way to achieving our 10% market share goal by the end of 2026. And I think on the subservicing front, suffice it to say, we're in a great position to deal with any concern about what's happened in the subservicing business over the past three years. There's been players leaving and players not growing and players changing their business models.

我認為我們的經紀直銷管道擁有巨大的機會。您可以看到，我們的市場份額逐年從 3.5% 增長至近 5%，我們正朝著 2026 年底實現 10% 市場份額的目標邁進。我認為，在次級服務方面，可以說，我們處於非常有利的地位，可以解決過去三年次級服務業務中出現的任何擔憂。有的玩家離開，有的玩家沒有成長，有的玩家改變了他們的商業模式。

And we believe that we offer a great value proposition on the subservicing channel. Look, subservicing is a capital-light business that we want to continue to emphasize throughout the organization. And it's through our relationship with our correspondent aggregators as well as our reputation as a management team that I believe is going to continue to allow us to be one of the leading sub-servicers in the industry.

我們相信，我們在次級服務管道上提供了巨大的價值主張。你看，次級服務是一種輕資本業務，我們希望在整個組織內繼續強調這一點。我相信，透過我們與代理商聚合商的關係以及我們作為管理團隊的聲譽，我們將繼續成為業界領先的子服務商之一。

Okay. I wonder if you could talk about the impact on your unit economics with some of the changes in the FHA loss mitigation programs, including to partial claims and payment supplements?

好的。我想知道您是否可以談談 FHA 損失緩解計劃的一些變化（包括部分索賠和付款補充）對您的單位經濟的影響？

Sure. So look, I'll start off by saying the new loss mitigation waterfall is largely in line with our expectations. And I think it's been carefully thought out. We've been having discussions with FHA and the prior administration about it and carried forward this administration. The changes are manageable. The limitation for mods is one in 24 months versus 18. And I think this is more than workable for borrowers, servicers and the FHA.

當然。所以，我首先要說的是，新的損失緩解瀑布基本上符合我們的預期。我認為這已經是經過深思熟慮的了。我們一直在與聯邦住房管理局和前政府討論此事，並將此事延續到本屆政府。這些變化是可以控制的。模組的限制是 24 個月內一次，而不是 18 個月一次。我認為這對借款人、服務商和聯邦住房管理局來說都是可行的。

And I believe it's going to -- it will improve redefault rates as well as wring out the bad actors in the industry. There's a greater priority for mods versus partial claim. So what we lose in mod income will more than make up for an EBO activity. And that's why I believe we are best positioned in the industry. As you all know, during COVID, we had tremendous success with EBO activity.

我相信它會改善違約率，並清除行業中的不良行為者。與部分聲明相比，修改具有更高的優先權。因此，我們在 mod 收入上的損失將足以彌補 EBO 活動的損失。這就是為什麼我相信我們在行業中處於最佳地位。眾所周知，在 COVID 期間，我們的 EBO 活動取得了巨大成功。

And it starts with having a strong risk management discipline, the ability to hedge EBOs, the ability to buy out the loans, get them reperforming, our expertise in default servicing really shines through in those situations and having the infrastructure in place to handle EBOs is important, that infrastructure is capital markets expertise, credit facilities in place, understanding when to buy out the loans, when do we deliver them.

首先要有強大的風險管理紀律、對沖 EBO 的能力、買斷貸款的能力、使其重新履行義務的能力，我們在違約服務方面的專業知識在這些情況下真正發揮作用，並且擁有處理 EBO 的基礎設施非常重要，該基礎設施是資本市場專業知識、信貸安排，了解何時買斷貸款，何時交付貸款。

So I am viewing this as as really a positive from a P&L perspective. I don't take comfort in borrowers losing their properties. But I think from an accounting impact, I don't view it negatively. As I said, it's going to -- it is going to reduce loss mitigation, but it's going to mark a return to more orderly property disposition in the way the market has historically operated. Finally, I'll tell you, I think for borrowers who unfortunately can't get a mod, we're in a much different environment than we've been in the last, call it, 20 years.

因此，從損益角度來看，我認為這確實是一件好事。借款人失去財產讓我感到不安。但我認為從會計影響來看，我並不認為這是負面的。正如我所說，它將減少損失緩解，但它將標誌著市場回歸到歷史上更有序的財產處置方式。最後，我要告訴你，我認為對於那些不幸無法獲得貸款的借款人來說，我們所處的環境與過去 20 年相比有很大不同。

There's -- borrowers have a lot of equity and there's housing supply issues. And with the strong demand for housing, I think it's borrower fortunately, has to get a deal of foreclosure or a short sale or foreclosed upon the disposition of the properties will be in a more orderly fashion.

借款人擁有大量資產，並且有房屋供應問題。而且由於住房需求強勁，我認為借款人很幸運，他們能夠以更有序的方式處理止贖、賣空或止贖等房產處置事宜。

Doug Harter, UBS.

瑞銀的道格·哈特。

Can you talk about your outlook for continued cost efficiencies on both the servicing and the origination side, the ability to continue to scale those businesses and what role technology, including AI might play in that?

您能否談談對服務和發起方面持續提高成本效率的展望、繼續擴大這些業務的能力以及包括人工智慧在內的技術在其中可能發揮的作用？

That I'm really excited about the work that's being done in both servicing and our loan production divisions. Really the sole goal is to drive down the costs. okay? And I think AI is clearly where the focus is. We're working with our business partners like Google and Amazon to realize efficiencies.

我對服務和貸款生產部門所做的工作感到非常興奮。確實唯一的目標是降低成本。好嗎？我認為人工智慧顯然是重點。我們正在與Google和亞馬遜等業務合作夥伴合作，以提高效率。

We've set up an AI team in our technology group to really provide bandwidth to our business leaders, to help identify opportunities where AI can be deployed as well as we can work with our third-party vendors who are investing in AI. Seeing more and more deployment of chatbots across the organization that will increase productivity.

我們在科技集團內成立了一支人工智慧團隊，為我們的業務領導者提供頻寬，幫助他們發現可以部署人工智慧的機會，以及我們可以與投資人工智慧的第三方供應商合作。看到整個組織中越來越多地部署聊天機器人，這將提高生產力。

And I have no doubt that we're going to see benefits, and we're already -- I'll give you a few examples in a minute, but we're going to see a shortened time line for getting loans originated and sold in the capital markets. Right now, we're focused on low efficiency in our fulfillment area. And all this is going to also going to find itself in creating a better customer experience. On the servicing front, we are uniquely positioned. Having SSC gives us the ability to customize and integrate AI into our system.

我毫不懷疑我們會看到好處，而且我們已經——我稍後會給你們舉幾個例子，但我們將看到在資本市場上發放和出售貸款的時間縮短。目前，我們關注的是履行領域的低效率。而這一切也都將創造更好的客戶體驗。在服務方面，我們有獨特的優勢。擁有 SSC 使我們能夠定制 AI 並將其整合到我們的系統中。

And we've automated 20 different processes in servicing. Just to give you an example, in servicing, we have a servicing customer interaction system called Mac Chat that allows customers to engage with PennyMac on a 24/7 basis. Its annualized savings for us, has been over 45,000 hours a year, roughly translating to $2 million a year in savings. In our -- in servicing, we have a servicing document processing and process automation system that has saved us over $2 million a year or 130,000 hours.

我們已經實現了 20 種不同服務流程的自動化。舉個例子，在服務方面，我們有一個名為 Mac Chat 的服務客戶互動系統，讓客戶可以全天候與 PennyMac 互動。它每年為我們節省的時間超過 45,000 小時，大約相當於每年節省 200 萬美元。在我們的服務中，我們有一個服務文件處理和流程自動化系統，每年為我們節省了 200 多萬美元或 130,000 小時。

And then finally, in TPO, our broker direct channel, we've instituted a document processing system that allows us for full indexing and creation of loan closing document package that it saves out of pocket expenses to the consumer of $7 a loan. So we'll be on a go-forward basis, be exposing more and more of this activity. But I am really enthusiastic and proud of the work that's getting done.

最後，在我們的經紀人直接管道 TPO 中，我們建立了一個文檔處理系統，使我們能夠對貸款結算文檔包進行完整索引和創建，從而為消費者節省每筆貸款 7 美元的自付費用。因此，我們將繼續前進，揭露越來越多的這類活動。但我對正在完成的工作確實充滿熱情和自豪。

Crispin Love, Piper Sandler.

克里斯賓·洛夫，派珀·桑德勒。

In recent quarters, you've been pretty vocal on expecting episodic rate moves. And we've seen that with rate volatility driven by the macro. And as you mentioned, April volume started off strong, but have you seen a significant drop off in recent weeks relative to earlier in the month in volumes or loss, just following the recent moves in rates.

最近幾個季度，您一直明確表示預計利率將出現波動。我們已經看到宏觀因素導致的利率波動。正如您所提到的，4 月份的交易量一開始很強勁，但是，隨著近期利率的變動，您是否發現最近幾週的交易量與月初相比出現大幅下降或損失？

So look, we've seen declines in activity but not as much as one would expect. I'll tell you, first of all, on correspondent, there's a lag in terms of the correspondent activity of about, I would call it, 45 to 60 days. So the increased activity we saw earlier in the month will avail itself later in the month or the beginning or in May in terms of correspondent activity.

所以，我們看到活動有所下降，但下降幅度沒有人們預期的那麼多。首先我要告訴你，就通訊員而言，通訊員活動存在大約 45 到 60 天的延遲。因此，就通訊員活動而言，我們在本月初看到的活動增加將在本月底或五月初發揮作用。

In terms of our consumer direct and broker direct channels, we have a lot of ourselves for consumer direct. We have a lot of loans that are in the high 6s, low 7s. And in the marketplace, as you can see in our earnings materials, there's a large number of these loans. And I think with the volatility in rates when borrowers see that they have a loan that they can refinance and it meets a goal, the idea of waiting for rates to go lower is not really playing into their thinking.

就我們的消費者直銷和經紀人直銷管道而言，我們在消費者直銷方面擁有大量經驗。我們有很多貸款利率都在 6% 以上、7% 以下。正如您在我們的收益資料中所看到的，市場上有大量此類貸款。我認為，當借款人發現他們有一筆可以再融資的貸款並且達到了目標時，利率波動時，等待利率下降的想法並不符合他們的想法。

And so there is just greater clarity of the market and what the kind of the breakeven is for borrowers, and they're taking -- I believe, is they're taking the position that they're going to refinance the loan, if rates come down further, then they'll refinance again.

因此，市場和借款人的損益平衡點就更加清晰了，我相信他們採取的立場是，他們將為貸款進行再融資，如果利率進一步下降，那麼他們將再次進行再融資。

Great. And then just also related to the rate volatility that we've seen in April to date and in the last few quarters. Can you discuss the MSR hedge in a little more detail. On slide 19, you do call out that the hedge ratio can decline to around 60% when refi volumes are highly responsive to rates, but you are targeting 80% to 90%. Can you dig a little bit deeper into near-term expectations and the key sensitivities you'd expect to impact the hedge effectiveness.

偉大的。這也與我們四月份迄今為止以及過去幾季看到的利率波動有關。您能否更詳細地討論一下 MSR 對沖？在第 19 張投影片上，您確實指出，當再融資量對利率高度敏感時，對沖比率可能會下降到 60% 左右，但您的目標是 80% 到 90%。您能否更深入探討近期預期以及您預期會影響避險有效性的關鍵敏感因素。

Sure. So through the quarter thus far, we've obviously had a pretty significant amount of interest rate volatility. I think in the -- one of the weeks earlier in the quarter, we were up and down, covered 70 basis points within a week. And so obviously, that has some impacts in terms of, a, what our targeted hedge ratio is that accompanies our expected production income as well as the hedge costs that we experience.

當然。因此，到目前為止，本季我們的利率顯然已經出現了相當大的波動。我認為在本季早些時候的某一周，我們的股價起伏不定，一周內上漲了 70 個基點。因此，顯然，這會對我們的目標對沖比率以及我們的預期生產收入以及我們經歷的對沖成本產生一定影響。

And so the increasing volatility -- with the increasing volatility that did increase our hedge costs here earlier in the quarter from what we experienced in the first quarter, given the significant increase in overall move as well as the impact on auction costs. And so that has run a bit higher than we saw in the first quarter. But overall, in terms of the rate moves and the pretty significant whippiness that we've seen, we've really -- the team has really, I think, done a good job in terms of insulating us from that and minimizing the overall rate impacts that we've experienced quarter-to-date, apart from, as I mentioned, the increased hedge costs that we've had through the first part of the quarter.

因此，波動性不斷增加——由於整體波動顯著增加以及對拍賣成本的影響，本季早些時候我們的對沖成本與第一季相比有所增加。因此，這一數字比我們第一季看到的要高一些。但總體而言，就利率變動和我們所看到的相當顯著的波動而言，我認為，團隊確實做得很好，使我們免受其影響，並將本季度迄今為止經歷的總體利率影響降至最低，除了我提到的，本季度前半段對沖成本的增加。

Boss George, KBW.

喬治老闆，KBW。

Just wanted to follow up on that MSR hedging question. I mean I can understand why certain backdrops create a lower hedge ratio. But it seems like in the past, there was -- sometimes where hedges should be lower, sometimes it would be over 100%, and it would kind of net out over time. But based on the commentary on that slide, it seems like now the hedge ratio is probably ranging between 60% and 100% would suggest that the GAAP ROE is going to be somewhat lower than the operating over time. So can you just talk about that if something changed in terms of how you view the hedging or how you do it? Or yes, just any commentary on that would be great.

只是想跟進一下 MSR 對沖問題。我的意思是我可以理解為什麼某些背景會產生較低的對沖比率。但似乎在過去，有時對沖應該較低，有時會超過 100%，並且隨著時間的推移它會逐漸淨化。但根據該投影片上的評論，現在對沖比率可能在 60% 到 100% 之間，這表明 GAAP ROE 將略低於長期營運。那麼，如果您對對沖的看法或做法發生了變化，您能否談談這一點？或者是的，任何對此的評論都很好。

So no, I mean, I think we're just really trying to lay out since we discussed this on a regular basis, lay out how -- what our hedging philosophy is. And so in periods where rates are, I'd say, generally lower the mortgage market is bigger and there's more variability, there's more overall refinance volume and more variability with respect to rates on production income.

所以不，我的意思是，我認為我們只是真的想闡明，因為我們定期討論這個問題，闡明我們的對沖理念是什麼。因此，我認為在利率普遍較低的時期，抵押貸款市場規模更大，波動性更大，整體再融資量更大，生產收入利率的波動性也更大。

Typically, we would allow our hedge ratio with respect to rates to be lower. And so what that really means is that we would see increases in overall value when interest rates go up as we saw in 2022, where we had a positive contribution from the increase in MSRs versus our hedges. And commensurately, if interest rates decrease, we see more of an overall decline. What we've really sought to do here on page 19, and we'll give a bit more clarity to this going forward, we've talked about it is identify apart from those rate impacts and sort of the effectiveness versus what our target has been.

通常，我們會允許相對於利率的對沖比率較低。因此，這實際上意味著，當利率上升時，我們會看到整體價值增加，就像我們在 2022 年看到的那樣，當時 MSR 相對於對沖的增加為我們帶來了積極的貢獻。相應地，如果利率下降，我們會看到整體下降趨勢加劇。我們在第 19 頁真正想要做的事情是，我們將在以後對此進行更清晰的闡述，我們已經討論過，除了那些利率影響之外，還要確定其有效性與我們的目標是什麼。

The hedge costs that are impacting us during the quarter and then if there's any other assumptions that have impacts. And so that's really what we've laid out. In the current environment where the yield curve, at least from the short rates to the -- compared to the longer rates have been flat to inverted and overall volatility has been high that would lead to some negative hedge costs as we had in the first and as I alluded to in the second quarter, as the yield curve normalizes somewhat, or become steeper with respect to, again, short rates versus longer rates and as overall vault decline, we would expect those hedge costs can get lower, potentially we've seen periods of time where they're positive.

本季對我們產生影響的對沖成本，以及是否有任何其他假設產生影響。這就是我們真正制定的計劃。在當前環境下，殖利率曲線，至少從短期利率到長期利率，一直是持平甚至倒掛的，而且整體波動性很高，這將導致一些負對沖成本，就像我們在第一季度遇到的那樣，正如我在第二季度提到的那樣，隨著收益率曲線有所正常化，或者就短期利率與長期利率而言變得更加陡峭，並且隨著整體金庫的減少，我們可能會降低它們。

And that the overall impact of just the rate impacts quarter-over-quarter would comprise more of the total that you would see on a quarter-to-quarter basis. But -- and like I said, it could really be balanced whether we see a positive impact or negative impact in any given quarter.

並且，僅利率對季度環比影響的整體影響就會比按季度計算的總量更大。但是 — — 正如我所說的那樣，我們在任何一個季度中看到的是積極影響還是消極影響，實際上都是可以平衡的。

Okay. Great. But when I think over an extended period, is it fair to say you expect your GAAP ROE to equal your operating ROE over -- I mean, not over quarter-to-quarter, but over a multiyear period. Is that fair?

好的。偉大的。但是，當我考慮一段較長的時間時，是否可以公平地說，您預計您的 GAAP ROE 將等於您的營業 ROE——我的意思是，不是按季度計算，而是按多年計算。這樣公平嗎？

It would depend a bit on the shape of the yield curve and volatility. So I think if we look back just historically over at least recent periods, we've seen that there's been negative hedge cost impact. But certainly, if we look over longer periods of time and the way that we've positioned ourselves, there's opportunities for both positive impacts and negative impacts as you said.

這在一定程度上取決於殖利率曲線的形狀和波動性。因此，我認為，如果我們回顧歷史，至少是最近幾個時期，我們會發現對沖成本產生了負面影響。但可以肯定的是，如果我們從更長遠的角度看待問題以及我們自身的定位，就會發現正如您所說，既有積極影響的機會，也有消極影響的機會。

Okay. Great. And let me just -- actually, one more on mortgage volumes. I mean to the extent that interest rates stay where they are with mortgage rates closer to 7%, do you think there's any risk to estimates or do you feel like there's probably enough volatility where you'll get those periodic refi waves and maybe that's kind of the way to get to the $2 trillion that the MBA is forecasting.

好的。偉大的。實際上，我再談一下抵押貸款額度。我的意思是，如果利率維持在目前的水平，即抵押貸款利率接近 7%，您認為估算是否存在風險，或者您是否認為可能存在足夠的波動，從而會出現週期性的再融資浪潮，也許這就是達到 MBA 預測的 2 兆美元目標的方法。

Yeah. The $2 trillion that the MBA is forecasting, I think, is really most likely require some amount of interest rate volatility as we've seen in period, as we saw earlier this month, that drives some episodic refinance volume. As to the other piece that should drive higher over time is also related to housing turnover, where, as David noted, there's a pretty significant demand. I think that there's continued pent-up demand for housing as well as to -- for folks to move out of whatever house they may have outgrown.

是的。我認為，MBA 預測的 2 兆美元實際上很可能需要一定程度的利率波動，正如我們在本月初看到的那樣，這會推動一些間歇性的再融資量。至於另一個應該隨著時間的推移而上漲的因素也與住房週轉率有關，正如戴維所指出的，住房週轉率的需求相當大。我認為，住房需求一直被壓抑，人們可能會因此搬離不再適合居住的房子。

And so there's some upward lift from that even at current rate levels versus the prior year. But I think the -- there will need to be some contribution from refinances related to dips in rates during the year to reach that $2 trillion mark.

因此，即使以目前的利率水平，與前一年相比，還是有一定的上升空間。但我認為，要達到 2 兆美元的目標，需要一些與年內利率下降相關的再融資的貢獻。

Eric Hagen, BTIG.

BTIG 的 Eric Hagen。

It looks like a really healthy recapture rate, but a couple of questions there. Are most of the loans that you're currently recapturing because of rate and term refinances? Or are they purchase recapture because borrowers are moving from one home to another? And on the loans that you're not recapturing, like what is the explanation maybe for that?

這看起來是一個非常健康的重新捕獲率，但也存在一些問題。您目前收回的貸款大部分是否都是因為利率和期限再融資？或者他們是否因為借款人從一個住所搬到另一個住所而進行了購買回收？對於您沒有收回的貸款，這可能是什麼原因？

Look, Eric, as you pointed out, recap rates have improved meaningfully. I will tell you, most of the loans are coming from rate and term. And it's just -- it speaks to the lead gen technology and processes that we put into place to give us better capability to categorize the mark-to-market, the end of money customers to be able to recapture the loans. We're working harder and harder on the purchase recapture front. And that's one of the drivers to investing in the brand.

艾瑞克，正如你所指出的，回收率已經有了顯著提高。我會告訴你，大多數貸款都是來自利率和期限。這只是——它說明了我們實施的領先技術和流程，使我們能夠更好地對按市價計價、資金耗盡的客戶進行分類，以便能夠重新獲得貸款。我們在購買回收方面正付出越來越大的努力。這也是投資該品牌的驅動力之一。

I think it's important that we continue to impress upon our customers and noncustomers to be able to have our name associated with the mortgage loan origination process to be able to get purchase recapture as well as purchase money transaction. And so look, we're going to be keeping an eye on increasing percentage of noncore originations and as well as increase in recapture. But it is rating term, and I think this is something that given the volatility in the market, you're going to see more and more of this improvement in recapture.

我認為重要的是，我們要繼續向我們的客戶和非客戶灌輸這樣的觀念：我們的名字必須與抵押貸款發放流程聯繫起來，以便能夠獲得購買回收以及購買資金交易。所以，我們將密切關注非核心發起百分比的增加以及回收率的增加。但這是一個評級術語，我認為考慮到市場的波動性，你會看到回收率的不斷提高。

Yeah. Okay. That's helpful. Can you also say how you deployed the proceeds from the unsecured debt that you raised in February? And how much flexibility or even like the appetite that you have to pay down the bilateral MSR financing lines from this point? And then can you maybe also remind us, are all of the secured MSR lines subject to margin calls? Or does the margin call only apply to some of the funding there?

是的。好的。這很有幫助。您能否也說一下您如何使用二月籌集的無擔保債務的收益？從現在起，你們對償還雙邊 MSR 融資額度有多大的彈性或意願？然後您能否提醒我們，所有有擔保的 MSR 額度是否都需要追加保證金？或者追加保證金只適用於那裡的部分資金？

Sure. So the -- the proceeds for the -- from the $850 million unsecured debt raise were used to pay down the bilateral MSR financing lines and that really gives us great flexibility. Obviously, we can redraw on those lines once we've repaid them because the collateral is still outstanding. All of those lines are subject to mark-to-market.

當然。因此，8.5 億美元無擔保債務籌集的資金用於償還雙邊 MSR 融資額度，這確實為我們提供了極大的靈活性。顯然，一旦我們償還了這些款項，我們就可以重新提取這些款項，因為抵押品仍然未償還。所有這些產品線均以市價計價。

But as we've noted, based on the collateral that we have today, we have over $3 billion of capacity to be able to draw against those lines. So practical perspective, even if we had significant interest rate volatility today, we wouldn't face a margin call at this point in time because we have so much excess collateral. And so we're in a very good position with respect to our overall financing capacity as we approach our maturity that's coming up later in the year, we will be looking for opportunities in the market to potentially issue additional unsecured debt.

但正如我們所指出的，根據我們今天所擁有的抵押品，我們有超過 30 億美元的容量可以用來抵扣這些額度。因此從實際角度來看，即使今天利率大幅波動，我們也不會面臨追加保證金的要求，因為我們擁有如此多的超額抵押品。因此，就我們的整體融資能力而言，我們處於非常有利的地位，隨著我們即將在今年稍後到期，我們將在市場上尋找機會發行額外的無擔保債務。

But to the extent that the market is not conducive, we have significant capacity. We have significant capacity on our financing lines to be able to pay down that maturity. One other item, too, is that as -- if interest rates rally -- another important component of this is that as interest rates rally, we do see a decrease in the value of our MSR asset, we have -- we're hedging the MSR and so we do have offsetting hedge gains against that. That would be inflows from a cash perspective. So even if we were more fully advanced that is a component of our hedge program that would allow us to pay down that debt with those hedge proceeds.

但在市場不利的情況下，我們擁有相當大的產能。我們的融資能力很強，能夠償還到期債務。另一件事是，如果利率上漲，另一個重要因素是，隨著利率上漲，我們確實會看到 MSR 資產價值下降，我們正在對沖 MSR，因此我們確實有抵銷對沖收益。從現金角度來看，這就是流入。因此，即使我們更加先進，這也是我們對沖計劃的一個組成部分，可以讓我們用對沖收益償還債務。

Yeah. Okay. That's helpful. Really helpful detail on the volume in April, but how have margins trended this month? It sounds like maybe there's been some hedging noise, but if you strip out that pipeline hedging like on a gross basis, if you will, can you say how margins have stacked up?

是的。好的。這很有幫助。關於四月份交易量的詳​​細資訊確實很有幫助，但是本月的利潤趨勢如何？聽起來好像有一些對沖噪音，但如果你從整體上剔除管道對沖，你能說出利潤率是如何累積的嗎？

Overall margins in -- thus far in the quarter have been, let's say, a little bit tighter than what we saw in the first quarter. So obviously, there's been a pretty significant amount of volatility, but there's been a little bit more competitive than we saw through the full first quarter on the correspondent side have been and really in the direct channels, I would say, haven't even -- have been pretty similar.

本季迄今的整體利潤率比第一季略低一些。因此，顯然，波動性相當大，但與整個第一季相比，代理商通路的競爭要激烈一些，而直接通路的競爭則沒有那麼激烈，我想說，情況非常相似。

Consumer direct, given the refinance that -- the refinance locks that we saw, given the interest rate rally those on a basis point basis tend to be a bit lower than than what we see on some of our second lien. So to the extent that we've had more refinance locks than we proportionately did in the first quarter, our overall basis point margin is lower, but our dollar per loan margin is higher. But those have been the dynamics that we've seen quarter-to-date thus far.

消費者直接，考慮到再融資 - 我們看到的再融資鎖定，考慮到利率上漲，這些基於基點的利率往往比我們在一些第二留置權上看到的利率要低一些。因此，由於我們擁有的再融資鎖定比第一季的比例要多，所以我們的整體基點利潤率較低，但每筆貸款的美元利潤率較高。但這些就是我們本季迄今所看到的動態。

Shanna Qiu, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的Shanna Qiu。

You guys mentioned the mid- to high teens ROE guidance, but it contemplates stable delinquencies. Can you quantify where you would need to see delinquencies rise to make an impact on the ROE guidance?

你們提到了中高水平的 ROE 指導，但它考慮的是穩定的拖欠率。您能否量化需要看到拖欠率上升到何種程度才能對 ROE 指導產生影響？

Yeah. We -- overall, we need to see a pretty significant or concentrated increase in delinquencies to have a meaningful impact on the ROE guidance and that would really have to be in the absence of any accompanying decrease in interest rates. So a decrease in interest rates would drive up additional production income and EBO income, which would be offsetting to potential increases in costs from delinquencies.

是的。總體而言，我們需要看到拖欠率出現相當顯著或集中的增加，才能對 ROE 指引產生有意義的影響，而且這必須在沒有伴隨利率下降的情況下實現。因此，利率下降將會增加額外的生產收入和 EBO 收入，從而抵消拖欠造成的成本潛在增加。

But overall, we would need to see delinquency increases pretty meaningfully outside the ranges that we've seen in the last few years or quarters, which have ranged up if you look over the past year, we have been within a, call it, a 1% range. So we need to see really multiples of that to get to impacting in a meaningful way the ROE guidance.

但總體而言，我們需要看到拖欠率大幅上升，超出過去幾年或幾個季度的水平，如果你回顧過去一年，你會發現拖欠率一直處於 1% 的範圍內。因此，我們需要看到真正的倍數才能對 ROE 指導產生有意義的影響。

I guess the EBO, you guys obviously did pretty well in that during COVID, but we saw massive rate decline, I guess, in this environment where you have changes in the loss mitigation programs and rates potentially staying higher for longer. How should we think about EBO income or your ability to modify potential increases in delinquencies in that environment?

我想，你們在 EBO 方面顯然在 COVID 期間做得很好，但我想，在這種環境下，我們看到利率大幅下降，因為損失緩解計劃發生了變化，利率可能會在更長時間內保持較高水平。我們應該如何看待 EBO 收入或您在該環境下改變潛在拖欠率增加的能力？

Look, I think in a higher rate environment, you're obviously -- you don't have as much firepower in terms of the rates that are being offered to the borrowers. But I think there's still between the 40-year mod and other programs in place, I do think that there will be opportunity to drive incremental EBO volume. Obviously, to Dan's point, if you see delinquencies increasing, typically, you see a rate decline that comes with that, which leads to more EBO opportunity. But I think there is -- we're seeing some data that shows that rates decline and you see borrowers with higher NOTE rates that do default that do need modification programs, there will be more EBO opportunity.

聽著，我認為在利率較高的環境下，你顯然——在向借款人提供的利率方面沒有那麼大的火力。但我認為，在 40 年期模式和其他現有計劃之間，我確實認為有機會推動 EBO 數量的增量。顯然，正如丹所說，如果你發現拖欠率增加，通常你會看到隨之而來的利率下降，這將帶來更多的 EBO 機會。但我認為，我們看到一些數據顯示利率下降，你會看到票據利率較高的借款人確實違約，確實需要修改計劃，那麼就會有更多的 EBO 機會。

Thank you. We have no further questions at this time. I'll now turn it back to David Spector for closing remarks.

謝謝。目前我們沒有其他問題。現在請戴維·斯佩克特作最後發言。

I just want to thank everyone for joining us today. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to reach out to our IR team. And again, thank you for your time.

我只想感謝大家今天的參加。如果您有任何疑問，請隨時聯絡我們的 IR 團隊。再次感謝您抽出時間。