PennantPark Floating Rate Capital Ltd (PFLT) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the PennantPark Floating Rate Capital's fourth fiscal-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

早安，歡迎參加 PennantPark Floating Rate Capital 2025 財年第四季財報電話會議。今天的會議正在錄影。（操作說明）

It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Art Penn, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of PennantPark Floating Rate Capital. Mr. Penn, you may begin your conference.

現在我很高興將電話轉交給 PennantPark Floating Rate Capital 的董事長兼執行長 Art Penn 先生。潘恩先生，您可以開始您的會議了。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to PennantPark Floating Rate Capital's fourth fiscal quarter 2025 earnings conference call. I'm joined today by Rick Allorto, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝大家，大家早安。歡迎參加 PennantPark Floating Rate Capital 2025 財年第四季財報電話會議。今天和我一起的有我們的財務長里克·阿洛托。

Rick, please start off by disclosing some general conference call information and include a discussion about forward-looking statements.

Rick，請先揭露一些關於電話會議的一般信息，並討論一下前瞻性聲明。

Thank you, Art. I'd like to remind everyone that today's call is being recorded and is the property of PennantPark Floating Rate Capital. Any unauthorized broadcast of this call in any form is strictly prohibited. An audio replay of the call will be available on our website.

謝謝你，阿特。我想提醒大家，今天的電話會議正在錄音，錄音版權歸 PennantPark Floating Rate Capital 所有。嚴禁以任何形式未經授權廣播本次通話內容。通話錄音將在我們的網站上提供。

I'd also like to call your attention to the customary Safe Harbor disclosure in our press release regarding forward-looking information. Our remarks today may also include forward-looking statements and projections. Please refer to our most recent SEC filings for important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these projections.

我還想提請您注意我們新聞稿中關於前瞻性資訊的慣例性「安全港」披露。我們今天的發言可能包含前瞻性陳述和預測。請參考我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，以了解可能導致實際結果與這些預測有重大差異的重要因素。

We do not undertake to update our forward-looking statements unless required by law. To obtain copies of our latest SEC filings, please visit our website at pennantpark.com or call us at 212-905-1000.

除非法律要求，否則我們不承擔更新前瞻性聲明的義務。如需我們最新的美國證券交易委員會文件副本，請造訪我們的網站 pennantpark.com 或致電 212-905-1000 與我們聯絡。

At this time, I'd like to turn the call back to our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Art Penn.

此時，我想把電話轉回給我們的董事長兼執行長阿特·佩恩。

Thanks, Rick. I'll begin today's call with an overview of our fourth-quarter results and recent strategic initiatives, including the $250 million portfolio acquisition and our new joint venture, PSSL II.

謝謝你，里克。今天，我將首先概述我們第四季度的業績和最近的策略舉措，包括 2.5 億美元的投資組合收購和我們新的合資企業 PSSL II。

I'll then share our perspective on the current market environment and how PFLT is positioned for continued growth. Rick will conclude with a detailed review of the financials, and then we'll open up the call for Q&A.

接下來，我將分享我們對當前市場環境的看法，以及PFLT如何定位以實現持續成長。Rick 將最後詳細回顧財務狀況，然後我們將開放問答環節。

For the quarter ended September 30, core net investment income for the quarter was $0.28 per share. We previously announced the acquisition of a $250 million portfolio and the formation of a new joint venture with an initial targeted portfolio of $500 million.

截至 9 月 30 日的季度，該季度的核心淨投資收益為每股 0.28 美元。我們先前宣布收購價值 2.5 億美元的投資組合，並成立新的合資企業，初始目標投資組合為 5 億美元。

These initiatives underscore our focus on enhancing PFLT's earnings power through scale, diversification, and disciplined capital deployment, key pillars of our long-term growth strategy. The portfolio acquisition adds high-quality well-known assets, that are projected to increase net investment income by $0.01 to $0.02 per share on a quarterly basis.

這些舉措凸顯了我們致力於透過規模、多元化和有紀律的資本部署來增強 PFLT 的獲利能力，而這正是我們長期成長策略的關鍵支柱。此次投資組合收購增加了高品質的知名資產，預計每季將使每股淨投資收益增加 0.01 至 0.02 美元。

The JV with Hamilton Lane, a respected global investor, enhances our funding sources and provides a scalable platform for future growth. The PSSL II JV began investing this month and closed a $150 million revolving credit facility, which bears interest at SOFR plus 175 basis points.

與備受尊敬的全球投資者 Hamilton Lane 成立的合資企業，增強了我們的資金來源，並為未來的成長提供了一個可擴展的平台。PSSL II 合資企業本月開始投資，並完成了 1.5 億美元的循環信貸安排，利率為 SOFR 加 175 個基點。

The credit facility has an accordion feature, allowing total commitments to increase to $350 million. Our run rate NII is projected to approximate our current dividend as we ramp the PSSL II portfolio. Our game plan is to grow PSSL II to be in excess of $1 billion in assets, similar to our existing joint ventures. As we achieve this game plan, our NII should be well in excess of our current dividend.

此信貸安排具有可擴展功能，允許總承諾額增加至 3.5 億美元。隨著我們逐步擴大 PSSL II 投資組合，我們的 NII 運行率預計將接近我們目前的股息。我們的計劃是將 PSSL II 的資產規模擴大到 10 億美元以上，與我們現有的合資企業類似。隨著我們實現這一戰略目標，我們的淨利息收入應該會遠遠超過我們目前的股息。

Regarding the current market environment for private middle-market lending, we are encouraged by a steady increase in transaction activity, which we expect will translate into a higher loan origination volumes in the quarters ahead. Additionally, we continue to provide additional capital to many of our existing portfolio companies as they execute their respective growth initiatives, demonstrating the depth and resilience of our origination platform.

就目前私人中階市場貸款的市場環境而言，交易活動的穩定成長令人鼓舞，我們預計這將轉化為未來幾季更高的貸款發放量。此外，我們也繼續為許多現有投資組合公司提供額外資金，以支持它們執行各自的成長計劃，這反映了我們融資平台的深度和韌性。

We are optimistic that the increase in transaction activity will also result in opportunities to exit some of our equity co-investments and rotate that capital into new current income-producing investments. We believe the current environment will favor lenders with strong private equity sponsor relationships and disciplined underwriting, areas where PFLT has a clear advantage.

我們樂觀地認為，交易活動的增加也將帶來退出部分股權共同投資並將這些資金輪換到新的、能夠產生當前收益的投資中的機會。我們認為，當前環境將有利於與私募股權發起人關係密切且承銷嚴格的貸款機構，而 PFLT 在這些方面具有明顯的優勢。

We continue to see opportunities to deploy capital into core middle-market companies, where leverage is lower and spreads are higher than in the upper-middle market. In the core middle market, the pricing on high-quality first lien term loans is SOFR plus $4.75 to $5.25. Leverage is reasonable, and we continue to get meaningful covenant protections while the upper middle market is primarily characterized as covenant light.

我們繼續看到將資本投入核心中端市場公司的機會，這些公司的槓桿率較低，利差高於中高端市場。在核心中端市場，高品質優先擔保定期貸款的定價為SOFR加4.75至5.25美元。槓桿率合理，我們繼續獲得有效的契約保護，而中高端市場則主要以契約寬鬆為特徵。

Turning to our current portfolio. We continue to maintain what we believe is one of the most conservatively structured portfolios in the direct lending industry. This is evidenced by having among the lowest PIK percentages in the industry at 1.8% for the quarter.

接下來，我們來看看目前的投資組合。我們繼續維持我們認為在直接貸款行業中最保守的投資組合結構之一。這體現在該公司本季的 PIK 百分比為 1.8%，是業內最低的百分比之一。

As of September 30, our portfolio's median leverage ratio through our debt security was 4.5 times, and the portfolio's median interest coverage was 2 times. For new platform investments made during the quarter, the median debt-to-EBITDA was 4.4 times, interest coverage was 2.3 times, and the loan-to-value was 44%.

截至 9 月 30 日，我們投資組合透過債務證券實現的槓桿率中位數為 4.5 倍，利息保障倍數中位數為 2 倍。本季進行的新平台投資，債務與 EBITDA 的中位數為 4.4 倍，利息保障倍數為 2.3 倍，貸款價值比為 44%。

We had three investments on nonaccrual status, and total nonaccruals represent only 0.4% of the portfolio at cost and 0.2% at market value. These strong credit metrics reflect the rigor of our underwriting process and the discipline of our investment approach.

我們有三項投資處於非應計狀態，非應計投資總額以成本計算僅佔投資組合的 0.4%，以市值計算僅佔投資組合的 0.2%。這些強勁的信用指標反映了我們嚴格的承保流程和嚴謹的投資方法。

We continue to believe that our focus on core middle market provides us with attractive investment opportunities where we provide important strategic capital to our borrowers. The PennantPark platform has a demonstrated track record of value creation through the successful financing of growing middle-market companies across five key sectors.

我們仍然相信，我們專注於核心中端市場，為我們提供了有吸引力的投資機會，為我們的借款人提供了重要的策略資本。PennantPark 平台已證明其在五個關鍵領域透過成功融資為成長型中型市場公司創造價值方面擁有良好的業績記錄。

These sectors in which we possess deep domain expertise, enabling us to ask the right questions and consistently deliver strong investment outcomes. They are business services, consumer, government services and defense, healthcare, and software technology. These sectors have been recession resilient, tend to generate strong free cash flow, and have a limited direct impact to the recent tariff increases and uncertainty.

我們在這些領域擁有深厚的專業知識，使我們能夠提出正確的問題，並持續取得良好的投資成果。它們分別是商業服務、消費者服務、政府服務和國防、醫療保健以及軟體技術。這些產業具有較強的抗衰退能力，往往能產生強勁的自由現金流，並且受近期關稅上漲和不確定性的直接影響有限。

Core middle-market companies, typically those with $10 million to $50 million of EBITDA, operate below the threshold of broadly syndicated loan or high-yield markets. In the core middle market, because we are an important strategic lending partner, the process and package of terms we receive is attractive.

核心中型市場公司，通常指 EBITDA 在 1,000 萬美元至 5,000 萬美元之間的公司，其營運規模低於廣泛銀團貸款或高收益市場的門檻。在核心中端市場，因為我們是重要的策略貸款合作夥伴，所以我們獲得的流程和條款組合很有吸引力。

We have many weeks to do our diligence with care. We thoughtfully structure transactions with sensible credit statistics, meaningful covenants, substantial equity cushions to protect our capital, attractive spreads, and equity co-investment. Additionally, from a monitoring perspective, we receive monthly financial statements to help us stay on top of the companies.

我們有好幾週的時間認真細緻地完成這項工作。我們精心設計交易結構，採用合理的信用統計數據、有意義的契約、充足的股權緩衝來保護我們的資本、有吸引力的利差以及股權共同投資。此外，從監控的角度來看，我們會收到每月財務報表，以幫助我們掌握各公司的動態。

Regarding covenant protections, while the upper-middle market has seen significant erosion, our originated first lien loans consistently include meaningful covenants that safeguard our capital. Our credit quality since our inception over 14 years ago has been excellent. PFLT has invested $8.4 billion in 539 companies, and we have experienced only 25 nonaccruals.

關於契約保護，雖然中高端市場遭受了嚴重的侵蝕，但我們所發放的第一順位抵押貸款始終包含有意義的契約，以保障我們的資本。自14年前成立以來，我們的信貸品質一直非常出色。PFLT 已向 539 家公司投資了 84 億美元，僅出現過 25 項非應計收益。

Since inception, PFLT's loss ratio on invested capital is only 11 basis points annually. As a provider of strategic capital, it fuels the growth of our portfolio companies. In many cases, we participate in the upside of the company by making an equity co-investment. Our returns on these equity co-investments have been excellent over time.

自成立以來，PFLT 的投資資本損失率每年僅為 11 個基點。作為策略資本的提供者，它推動了我們投資組合公司的發展。在很多情況下，我們透過股權共同投資來分享公司發展帶來的利益。長期以來，我們在這些股權共同投資上的回報都非常出色。

Overall, for our platform from inception through September 30, we've invested over $596 million in equity co-investments and have generated an IRR of 25% and a multiple on invested capital of 2 times. As of September 30, our portfolio grew to $2.8 billion, up from $2.4 billion in the prior quarter.

總體而言，從平台成立到 9 月 30 日，我們已投入超過 5.96 億美元進行股權聯合投資，並產生了 25% 的內部收益率和 2 倍的投資資本回報。截至9月30日，我們的投資組合成長至28億美元，高於上一季的24億美元。

During the quarter, we continued to originate attractive investment opportunities and invested $633 million and 11 new and 105 existing portfolio companies at a weighted average yield of 10.5%. As of September 30, the PSSL I portfolio totaled $1.1 billion and during the quarter, invested $89 million in 4 new and 14 existing portfolio companies.

本季度，我們繼續發掘有吸引力的投資機會，投資 6.33 億美元，投資了 11 家新投資組合公司和 105 家現有投資組合公司，加權平均收益率為 10.5%。截至 9 月 30 日，PSSL I 投資組合總額為 11 億美元，本季向 4 家新投資組合公司和 14 家現有投資組合公司投資了 8,900 萬美元。

We believe that the increase in scale of PSSL's balance sheet will continue to drive attractive mid-teens return on invested capital and enhance PFLT's earnings momentum. From an outlook perspective, our experienced intelligent team and our wide origination funnel are well positioned to generate strong deal flow.

我們相信，PSSL資產負債表規模的擴大將繼續推動投資資本獲得可觀的15%左右的回報率，並增強PFLT的獲利動能。從前景來看，我們經驗豐富的智慧團隊和廣泛的客戶開發管道，完全有能力產生強勁的交易流量。

Our mission and goal are a steady, stable, and protected dividend stream, coupled with the preservation of capital. Everything we do is aligned to that goal. We seek to find investment opportunities in growing middle-market companies that have high free cash flow conversion. We capture that free cash flow primarily in first lien senior secured instruments, and we pay out those contractual cash flows in the form of dividends to our shareholders.

我們的使命和目標是提供穩定、可靠且有保障的股利流，同時保全資本。我們所做的一切都是為了實現這個目標。我們致力於尋找投資機會，投資對像是具有高自由現金流轉換率的成長型中型市場公司。我們主要透過優先擔保票據來取得這些自由現金流，並將這些合約現金流以股利的形式支付給股東。

With that overview, I'll turn it over to Rick for a more detailed review of our financial results.

有了以上概述，接下來我將把發言權交給里克，讓他對我們的財務表現進行更詳細的分析。

Thank you, Art. For the quarter ended September 30, GAAP net investment income and core net investment income were both $0.28 per share. Operating expenses for the quarter were as follows.

謝謝你，阿特。截至 9 月 30 日的季度，GAAP 淨投資收益和核心淨投資收益均為每股 0.28 美元。本季營運費用如下。

Interest and expenses on debt were $25.8 million. Base management and performance-based incentive fees were $13.4 million. General and administrative expenses were $2 million, and provision for taxes was $0.2 million.

債務利息和支出為2580萬美元。基本管理費和績效獎金為 1340 萬美元。一般及行政費用為 200 萬美元，稅金準備金為 20 萬美元。

For the quarter ended September 30, net realized and unrealized change on investments, including provision for taxes, was a loss of $10 million. As of September 30, NAV was $10.83 per share, which is down 1.2% from $10.96 per share last quarter. As of September 30, our debt-to-equity ratio was 1.6 times. And our capital structure is diversified across multiple funding sources, including both secured and unsecured debt.

截至 9 月 30 日的季度，投資的已實現和未實現淨變動（包括稅務準備）為虧損 1,000 萬美元。截至 9 月 30 日，每股淨值為 10.83 美元，較上季度的每股 10.96 美元下降了 1.2%。截至9月30日，我們的負債權益比率為1.6倍。我們的資本結構多元化，資金來源多樣，包括有擔保債務和無擔保債務。

Subsequent to quarter-end, we sold $118 million of assets to the PSSL I joint venture and $191 million of assets to the new PSSL II joint venture. We used the net proceeds from these sales to pay down our revolving credit facility and reduce our debt-to-equity ratio to 1.4 times, which is at the lower end of our target range of 1.4 to 1.6 times.

季度末之後，我們向 PSSL I 合資企業出售了價值 1.18 億美元的資產，向新的 PSSL II 合資企業出售了價值 1.91 億美元的資產。我們將這些銷售所得淨收益用於償還循環信貸額度，並將我們的負債權益比率降低至 1.4 倍，這處於我們 1.4 至 1.6 倍目標範圍的下限。

As of September 30, our key portfolio statistics were as follows. The portfolio remains well diversified, comprising 164 companies across 50 industries. The weighted average yield on our debt investments was 10.2% and approximately 99% of the debt portfolio is floating rate. PIK income equaled only 1.8% of total interest income.

截至9月30日，我們主要的投資組合統計如下。該投資組合保持了良好的多元化，涵蓋 50 個行業的 164 家公司。我們債務投資的加權平均收益率為 10.2%，其中約 99% 的債務組合為浮動利率。PIK 收入僅佔總利息收入的 1.8%。

We have three nonaccruals, which represent 0.4% of the portfolio at cost and 0.2% at market value. The portfolio is comprised of 90% first lien senior secured debt, 1% second lien and subordinated debt, 2% in equity of PSSL, and 7% in equity co-investments. The debt to EBITDA on the portfolio is 4.5 times, and interest coverage was 2 times.

我們有三項非應計投資，以成本計算佔投資組合的 0.4%，以市值計算佔投資組合的 0.2%。該投資組合由 90% 的優先擔保債務、1% 的次級債務、2% 的 PSSL 股權和 7% 的股權共同投資組成。此投資組合的債務與 EBITDA 比率為 4.5 倍，利息保障倍數為 2 倍。

Now, let me turn the call back to Art.

現在，讓我把電話轉回給Art。

Thanks, Rick. In conclusion, I'd like to thank our exceptional team for the continued dedication and our shareholders for their trust and partnership. We remain committed to delivering strong performance, preserving capital, and creating long-term value for all stakeholders.

謝謝你，里克。最後，我要感謝我們傑出的團隊的持續奉獻，以及股東們的信任與合作。我們將繼續致力於取得優異的業績，保住資本，並為所有利害關係人創造長期價值。

That concludes our remarks. At this time, I would like to open up the call to questions.

我們的發言到此結束。現在，我想開放提問環節。

(Operator Instructions) Robert Dodd, Raymond James.

（操作說明）羅伯特·多德，雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Hi, guys. On the portfolio acquisition, particularly, I mean, I guess how did that come about? And secondly, are there more opportunities like that? And in what way do you think that is -- you obviously get a pool of assets there. You don't get to pick and choose, I presume. So I mean what's the value of an acquisition which is obviously a big lump versus deploying the capital into individual investments?

嗨，大家好。關於投資組合收購，特別是，我想問一下，這是怎麼發生的？其次，還有更多類似的機會嗎？你認為這是怎麼回事——顯然，你會在那裡獲得一筆資產。我想你沒得挑挑揀揀吧。所以我的意思是，收購（顯然是一筆巨款）的價值與將資金投入單一投資項目相比如何？

Thanks, Robert. Just to take a step back. That was another joint venture that we had with a third-party with all of the same assets. It's self-originated assets that we originated.

謝謝你，羅伯特。退後一步。那是我們與第三方成立的另一個合資企業，擁有所有相同的資產。這是我們自主開發的資產。

Actually, those were originated a couple of years ago, so the spreads are high. We know the portfolio very well. So that was really just an acquisition of more of the same type of assets that we already have in PFLT and in fact, many of the same assets that we already have in PFLT.

實際上，這些產品是幾年前推出的，所以價差很大。我們非常了解投資組合。所以，這實際上只是收購了更多我們在 PFLT 中已經擁有的同類型資產，事實上，其中許多資產與我們在 PFLT 中已經擁有的資產相同。

Got it, got it. On the -- and then just to the point on the market, I mean, it does seem like it's ramping up. Are you seeing any kind of bifurcation?

明白了，明白了。關於——然後就市場而言，我的意思是，它看起來確實正在加速發展。你觀察到任何形式的分叉現象嗎？

I mean, I think, obviously, logistics companies have been an issue post-COVID, not [just] you, right? So are you seeing any kind of bifurcation about what you would like to do or what is coming to market in terms of still some things having COVID handovers or these handovers? Or any thoughts there?

我的意思是，很顯然，物流公司在新冠疫情後一直是一個問題，不只是你們公司，對吧？那麼，您是否看到在您想要做的事情或即將上市的事情方面存在任何分歧，尤其是在某些產品仍然受到新冠疫情影響或存在其他影響的情況下？或者大家有什麼想法嗎？

Yeah. So look, logistics, as you mentioned, is an area that's still dealing with post-COVID. There is a general reversion to the mean that we're seeing throughout the economy, where we're seeing softness. And this has been broadly reported in the media. The consumer, the average consumer is relatively soft. Inflation has remained high. The tariffs did not help that.

是的。所以你看，正如你所提到的，物流領域仍然是後疫情時代需要應對的領域。我們看到整個經濟領域普遍出現均值回歸的趨勢，經濟活動趨於疲軟。媒體對此事進行了廣泛報導。一般消費者比較容易被忽略。通貨膨脹率居高不下。關稅對此並無幫助。

So the average consumer in America is a little soft, which is kind of in the back of our mind as we underwrite credit. We have very little amounts in consumer brands. We do have consumer services.

所以美國一般消費者的消費能力比較弱，這在我們進行信貸審批時會一直縈繞在我們心頭。我們在消費品牌方面的投資額非常少。我們確實提供消費者服務。

The consumer services, we tend to have are more related to the home, which generally is hanging in there pretty well. But that's what we think about. The other areas that we focus on, government services, defense, healthcare. Those remain pretty strong.

我們提供的客戶服務往往與家庭相關，而家庭服務大致上還不錯。但這就是我們所想的。我們關注的其他領域包括政府服務、國防和醫療保健。這些優勢依然相當明顯。

Got it. And on that, you do have some good exposure to the government and contracting, et cetera. Did the shutdown, which obviously went on a while, did it have any impact on any of the portfolio companies?

知道了。在這方面，你確實有機會接觸政府和承包等領域。這次停工顯然持續了一段時間，它對投資組合中的任何公司產生了任何影響嗎？

We have very little exposure to so-called civilian government activities. It's more defense, intelligence things of that nature where the shutdown did not really have an impact. So we're -- no pun intended -- we're well defended there.

我們很少接觸到所謂的文職政府活動。主要是國防、情報等方面的事情，政府停擺並沒有真正對其造成影響。所以——沒有雙關的意思——我們在那裡防守得很嚴密。

Thank you. Thank you.

謝謝。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Brian McKenna, Citizens.

Brian McKenna，市民。

Thanks. Good morning, Art and Rick. I appreciate the disclosure around the $310 million of assets that were sold to both JVs post quarter-end. I'm curious, when were these loans initially originated?

謝謝。早上好，Art 和 Rick。我讚賞貴方披露了季度末後向兩家合資企業出售的 3.1 億美元資產的情況。我很好奇，這些貸款最初是什麼時候發放的？

And I'm just trying to figure out the NII contribution from these assets in fiscal 4Q, and then really the starting point for NII in fiscal 1Q, given these sales, the scaling of the second JV, as well as the full-quarter run rate from the portfolio acquisition.

我只是想弄清楚這些資產在第四財季的淨利息收入貢獻，以及考慮到這些銷售額、第二個合資企業的規模以及投資組合收購的整個季度運行率，第一財季淨利息收入的起點。

Yeah. So I think we sent out a press release when we did the portfolio acquisition. I think it was kind of mid-quarter. So we did not get a full quarter of ramp from those assets that we bought the $250 million portfolio.

是的。所以我覺得我們在進行投資組合收購時發布了新聞稿。我想大概是季度中期吧。因此，我們並沒有從我們購買的價值 2.5 億美元的資產組合中獲得完整的季度收益成長。

So in our comments, when we said full quarter, it should add about $0.01 to $0.02 per share of NII for a full quarter of those assets. The JV starts to become much more accretive as it scales. So day one, it's not really accretive. But as it gets to $500 million, $750 billion, $1.2 billion like the other JVs, that's when you start to see the benefit of the scale of it, the financing that you get.

因此，我們在評論中提到「完整季度」時，是指這些資產完整季度的每股淨利息收入應增加約 0.01 至 0.02 美元。隨著規模擴大，合資企業開始變得更加具有累積性。所以第一天，它實際上並沒有帶來任何成長。但當規模達到 5 億美元、7,500 億美元、12 億美元（與其他合資企業一樣）時，你會開始看到規模帶來的好處，以及你獲得的融資。

You can see the returns that our other two JVs are generating, the JV we have in PFLT and in the JV we have in PNNT. If you model a 15% return on that junior capital and you deploy a reasonable amount in that in the Hamilton Lane JV, we're 75% of the junior capital. It starts to become in a very, very attractive addition to the NII.

您可以查看我們另外兩個合資企業產生的收益，分別是我們在 PFLT 的合資企業和我們在 PNNT 的合資企業。如果假設該次級資本的回報率為 15%，而你在 Hamilton Lane 合資企業中投入合理的資金，那麼我們就擁有了 75% 的次級資本。它開始成為 NII 一個非常非常有吸引力的補充。

But it probably takes a year or two before you start to get the benefits of that ramp. We certainly want to ramp it. But we also want to be careful and conservative along the way and make sure we're putting really solid assets into that joint venture. So the NII contribution for that is probably over, call it, a year or two, depending on deal flow and all of that.

但可能需要一到兩年的時間才能開始感受到這種進步帶來的好處。我們當然希望加大力度。但我們也希望在過程中保持謹慎和保守，確保我們向該合資企業投入真正可靠的資產。因此，這部分淨利息收入的貢獻可能已經結束了，大概一兩年，具體取決於交易情況等等。

So I don't know if I answered your question with that, Brian, but please continue to ask if I didn't.

布萊恩，我不知道我這樣回答是否解答了你的問題，如果沒有，請繼續提問。

Yeah, no, that's helpful. I appreciate it. And then I guess just a follow-up on the dividend. I think in the prepared remarks, you said, as the second JV scales, NII should be well in excess of the dividend. And so I appreciate, to your prior comments, it's going to take a year or two to fully ramp.

是的，那很有幫助。謝謝。然後我想再跟進一下分紅事宜。我認為您在準備好的發言稿中說過，隨著第二個合資企業的規模擴大，淨利息收入應該遠遠超過股利。因此，我同意您先前的評論，全面全面展開可能需要一到兩年的時間。

But thinking about that comment in excess or well in excess of the dividend, I mean, is that contemplating the forward curve? Is that contemplating any other kind of credit quality changes? And then what other kind of core assumptions are in that?

但是，如果考慮到股息之外的因素，或遠遠超過股息，我的意思是，這是否意味著在考慮遠期曲線？是否考慮過其他類型的信用品質變化？那麼，其中還包含哪些其他核心假設呢？

Yeah. Look, we can run models with each other. Certainly, well in excess with the existing SOFR curve, certainly the market indicates we have some room to head downward with SOFR. But I think even if you take the market's assumption of where SOFR is going to be a year out, I think we should -- based on our numbers and we can compare models, I think we're still covering the dividend reasonably well.

是的。你看，我們可以互相運行模型。當然，SOFR 目前的殖利率遠高於現有殖利率曲線，市場也顯示 SOFR 還有下行的空間。但我認為，即使按照市場對一年後 SOFR 走勢的預期，根據我們的數據，我們可以比較不同的模型，我認為我們仍然能夠很好地覆蓋股息。

Okay, I'll leave it there. Thanks so much.

好了，我就說到這裡。非常感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Doug Harter, UBS.

道格·哈特，瑞銀集團。

Thanks. Can you just talk about where you're seeing new loan spreads, and any stabilization there? And then how that compares to what you're seeing on new financing costs?

謝謝。您能否談談您觀察到的新貸款利差情況，以及這些利差是否趨於穩定？那麼，這和您目前看到的融資成本相比如何？

Yeah. So I think we talked about our new JV got a credit facility at the SOFR plus 175. So that's kind of our most recent comparable kind of loan that we can access.

是的。所以我想我們當時談到了我們新的合資企業獲得了SOFR加175的信貸額度。所以，這算是我們最近能獲得的類似貸款類型。

I think we said in our stated remarks that we've seen it kind of in the 4.75% to 5.25% range on average in our world now. Our world's a little bit lower risk, i.e., our average debt to EBITDA is in the mid-4s. We're not stretching for -- we're not stretching for yield. Our loan-to-values are kind of 40%-ish.

我認為我們在之前的發言中已經說過，目前我們所在地區的平均水平在 4.75% 到 5.25% 之間。我們的世界風險略低一些，也就是說，我們的平均債務與 EBITDA 比率約為 4 倍。我們並非追求──我們並非追求產量。我們的貸款成數約為 40% 左右。

So in our box, we're okay taking a little lower yield if the credit is really, really solid. So we will do a $475 million or $500 million if we really feel good about the credit, the loan-to-value, and the low leverage.

所以，在我們看來，如果信貸真的非常非常可靠，我們可以接受稍微低一點的收益率。所以，如果我們對信貸、貸款價值比和低槓桿率真的很有信心，我們會進行 4.75 億美元或 5 億美元的投資。

Again, that shows up in the PIK percentage, 1.8%. We're probably among the lowest in the industry in terms of the amount of PIK. Obviously, if you have higher leverage in your book, whether it's 6 times, 7 times, ARR loans, whatever you want to call them, PIK is more of a requirement because of the higher leverage.

這一點再次體現在 PIK 百分比上，為 1.8%。就PIK數量而言，我們可能是業內最低的一個。顯然，如果你的帳簿槓桿率較高，無論是 6 倍、7 倍，還是 ARR 貸款，無論你怎麼稱呼它們，由於槓桿率較高，PIK 都是更重要的要求。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Arren Cyganovich, Truist Securities.

阿倫·西加諾維奇，Truist Securities。

Thanks. Following up on the prior questions. The portfolio acquisition boosted leverage to around 1.6 times. And then you subsequently (technical difficulty) that, so it went back down to 1.4.

謝謝。針對之前的問題。此次投資組合收購使槓桿率提高到約 1.6 倍。然後，由於技術困難，它又降回了 1.4。

Does that 1.4, does that run rate cover the dividend? And how much, if you were just to exclude PSSL II, does that cover the dividend? I'm just trying to kind of have the puts and takes and put those to your comments.

1.4 這個殖利率能覆蓋股息嗎？如果只排除 PSSL II，那麼股息能涵蓋多少？我只是想了解大家的想法和觀點，然後把它們寫進你們的評論裡。

Yeah. Look, we're happy to go through model inputs and such. Our general leverage range is 1.4 to 1.6. So as you saw, sometimes, we'll take it up to 1.6. We'll move assets into our two JVs. We'll get down to 1.4. And so I guess if you wanted to model 1.5 as kind of middle of that range.

是的。你看，我們很樂意研究模型輸入等等。我們一般的槓桿率範圍是 1.4 到 1.6。所以正如你所看到的，有時我們會將其提高到 1.6。我們會將資產轉移到我們的兩個合資企業。我們會降到 1.4。所以我想，如果你想把 1.5 當作這個範圍的中間值來建模的話。

And yes, if you kind of model -- our belief is if you model 1.5, if you grow the JV over time, we should be able to easily cover our dividend. And even if you took a SOFR reduction and put that in, we believe so.

是的，如果你進行某種建模——我們相信，如果你以 1.5 倍的規模進行建模，並且隨著時間的推移，合資企業不斷發展壯大，我們應該能夠輕鬆地支付股息。即使你降低了 SOFR 利率並將其代入，我們也相信會成功。

So we can go through the model with you and go through scenarios with you, but that's -- as we look at the scenarios of ramping the second JV, we do hope we do get some equity rotation.

所以我們可以和你一起分析模型，分析各種方案，但是——當我們考慮第二個合資企業加速發展的各種方案時，我們確實希望能夠實現一些股權輪換。

As M&A happens, we believe we should be able to get some equity rotation, which (technical difficulty) help out a lot. If you take this joint venture and you model it out similar to our other two joint ventures, that's kind of where we land.

隨著併購的進行，我們相信應該能夠實現一些股權輪動，這（技術上困難）會有很大幫助。如果你把這個合資企業按照我們另外兩個合資企業的模式來構建，那結果就差不多了。

Got it. That's helpful. Thank you. And then the credit quality has been solid, really, for the industry. Here, you have some small one-offs here and there. Maybe you could talk a little bit about the strength of your underlying portfolio companies and what you're seeing in terms of trends and average EBITDA and revenues for your portfolios

知道了。那很有幫助。謝謝。而且，就整個產業而言，信貸品質一直都很穩健。這裡，零星地有一些小小的、一次性的案例。或許您可以談談投資組合中各公司的實力，以及您觀察到的投資組合的趨勢、平均 EBITDA 和收入狀況。

Yeah. I don't know if we put it in prepared remarks. We are seeing kind of double-digit growth in revenues and probably single-digit growth and mid-single-digit growth in EBITDA. Again, kind of what we chatted about earlier, it's industry and company specific, of course.

是的。我不知道我們是否把它寫進了準備好的演講稿裡。我們看到營收實現了兩位數的成長，而 EBITDA 可能實現了個位數或中等個位數的成長。這和我們之前討論的內容有點類似，當然，這取決於行業和公司的具體情況。

Logistics, we talked about, there's a couple choppier credits there. We're focused a lot on the consumer and kind of how the consumer is faring in this environment. So we're focused on that. By and large, the portfolio is healthy. So to have all the names that we had, well over 100, and have a handful of choppier names is totally expected. It's what we model.

物流方面，我們剛才也談到了，那裡有一些不太穩定的信貸。我們非常關心消費者，以及消費者在這種環境下的境況。所以我們專注於此。總體而言，該投資組合狀況良好。所以，我們收集到的名字超過 100 個，其中有一些不太好聽的名字，這完全是在意料之中。這就是我們所效法的榜樣。

Of course, any of these portfolios, you're going to have a handful of names that are in one way, shape, or form experiencing issues. Sometimes, they rebound; sometimes, they don't. But we think the number of choppier credits is relatively minor at this point.

當然，在任何一個投資組合中，都會有一些股票以某種方式出現問題。有時候它們會反彈；有時候則不會。但我們認為目前波動較大的信貸數量相對較少。

And the watch list of things that we're kind of looking is nothing really unusual about what's going on right now. We're not seeing any systemic issues with credit at this point in the economy or direct lending at this point in the economy. It's kind of the same old story here.

而我們關注的這些事情，其實和現在發生的事情並沒有什麼特別之處。就目前的經濟狀況而言，我們沒有看到信貸或直接貸款方面有任何系統性問題。這跟以前的情況差不多。

Got it. Okay, thank you.

知道了。好的，謝謝。

Thanks, Arren.

謝謝你，阿倫。

Paul Johnson, KBW.

保羅·約翰遜，KBW。

Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Hey, what happened with your investment in Bilight quarter over quarter? It looked like maybe there was a little bit of a payoff there some sort of realization. But just curious what happened in that company?

嘿，早安。謝謝您回答我的問題。嘿，你對 Bilight 的投資上個季度發生了什麼變化？看起來好像有點收穫，某種頓悟。我只是好奇那家公司到底發生了什麼事？

Yeah. There was a dividend recapitalization, and we are in the equity. That's one where we have an equity co-invest. So there was a realized gain of about $0.04 a share.

是的。公司進行了股息再融資，我們現在持有股權。這是我們參與股權共同投資的項目之一。因此，每股實際收益約為 0.04 美元。

Got it. And that's $0.04 in terms of dividend income this quarter? Or is that just the realized gain that was taken?

知道了。那這季度的股息收入就是0.04美元嗎？或者，那隻是實際獲得的利益？

That was not an income element. That was a NAB element. So we had some realized gains. We had some realized losses. Walker Edison was the big realized loss that was already written down. It was unrealized. It became realized.

那並非收入來源。那是NAB的一個組成部分。所以我們取得了一些實際收益。我們確實遭受了一些損失。沃克愛迪生公司的虧損是已經確定的重大損失。這件事之前沒有被意識到。這件事最終得以實現。

Something called LAV Gear was realized and went through a restructuring. So it was a realized $0.05. So Walker Edison was realized $0.12 per share, LAV gear was realized $0.05 per share, and then this Bilight was a realized positive of $0.04 a share.

一種名為 LAV Gear 的技術被開發出來，並進行了重組。所以，實際收益為每股 0.05 美元。 Walker Edison 每股實際收益為 0.12 美元，LAV Gear 每股實際收益為 0.05 美元，而 Bilight 每股實際收益為 0.04 美元。

Got it. Okay. Appreciate it. That's all for me. Thank you very much.

知道了。好的。謝謝。我的內容就這些了。非常感謝。

Thanks, Paul.

謝謝你，保羅。

Christopher Nolan, Ladenburg Thalmann.

克里斯多福諾蘭，拉登堡塔爾曼。

Hey, guys. So I'd correct to hear that the EBITDA coverage was 4.5 times -- 4.4 times?

嘿，夥計們。所以，我理解的更正是 EBITDA 覆蓋率是 4.5 倍——或者 4.4 倍？

4.4 would be the debt to EBITDA, yes.

是的，4.4 是債務與 EBITDA 的比值。

Am I correct that it sort of seems like either the leverage is going down on these portfolio companies or the EBITDA is going up? I presume your EBITDA is going up. Is that a fair assumption?

我的理解是否正確，這些投資組合公司的槓桿率似乎正在下降，或者 EBITDA 在上升？我估計你的 EBITDA 會上升。這種假設合理嗎？

Well, it could be both. It depends on the company. As we just said, EBITDA is going up a bit in the portfolio. And also if we're underwriting correctly, the companies are deleveraging and paying debt down, which, of course, is our goal. We'd love to see debt pay down. And then on the new deals, the new deals that come in are again relatively low leverage and kind of in the low to mid 4s.

嗯，有可能兩者都是。這取決於公司。正如我們剛才所說，該投資組合的 EBITDA 略有上升。而且，如果我們承保得當，這些公司正在降低槓桿率並償還債務，這當然也是我們的目標。我們很樂意看到債務減少。至於新達成的交易，新達成的交易槓桿率也相對較低，大致介於 4 到 5 倍之間。

Okay. And then on -- the stock price is trading 17% below book. Any consideration in terms of buybacks? Or does all the joint ventures sort of restrict your abilities to do that given the leverage ratio?

好的。然後——股價比帳面價值低 17%。是否有考慮過回購？或者說，考慮到槓桿率，所有的合資企業是否會在某種程度上限制你實現這一目標的能力？

The Board of Directors always considers all options including buybacks, insiders or continual buyers of our portfolios, both public funds and private funds. So it does appear to be a good value right now.

董事會始終考慮所有方案，包括回購、內部人士或持續收購我們投資組合（包括公共基金和私人基金）的買家。所以現在看來確實物有所值。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the conference back to Mr. Penn for any additional or closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題了。現在我將把會議交還給佩恩先生，請他作補充或總結發言。

Thanks, everybody, for your participation. In this Thanksgiving season, we are certainly grateful for the trust that our shareholders have given us. We wish everyone a terrific Thanksgiving and holiday season. And we'll speak to you in early February.

謝謝大家的參與。在這個感恩節之際，我們衷心感謝股東們對我們的信任。祝大家感恩節和假期愉快！我們將在二月初與您聯繫。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線了。