PennantPark Floating Rate Capital Ltd (PFLT) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the PennantPark Floating Rate Capital's first fiscal quarter 2025 earnings conference call.

早安，歡迎參加 PennantPark Floating Rate Capital 2025 財年第一季財報電話會議。

Today's conference is being recorded.

今天的會議正在錄製。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Art Penn, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of PennantPark Floating Rate Capital.

現在我很高興將電話轉給 PennantPark Floating Rate Capital 董事長兼執行長 Art Penn 先生。

Mr. Penn, you may begin your conference.

佩恩先生，您可以開始您的會議了。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone.

謝謝大家，早安。

I'd like to welcome you to PennantPark Floating Rate Capital's first fiscal quarter 2025 earnings conference call.

歡迎您參加 PennantPark Floating Rate Capital 2025 財年第一季財報電話會議。

I'm joined today by Rick Allorto, our Chief Financial Officer.

今天和我一起參加的是我們的財務長 Rick Allorto。

Rick, please start off by disclosing some general conference call information and include a discussion about forward-looking statements.

里克，請先披露一些一般電話會議信息，並討論前瞻性陳述。

Thank you, Art.

謝謝你，阿特。

I'd like to remind everyone that today's call is being recorded.

我想提醒大家，今天的通話正在錄音。

Please note that this call is the property of PennantPark Floating Rate Capital and that any unauthorized broadcast of this call in any form is strictly prohibited.

請注意，本次通話歸 PennantPark Floating Rate Capital 所有，嚴禁以任何形式未經授權播放本次通話。

An audio replay of the call will be available on our website.

此次通話的音訊回放將在我們的網站上提供。

I'd also like to call your attention to the customary Safe Harbor disclosure in our press release regarding forward-looking information.

我還想提請您注意我們新聞稿中有關前瞻性資訊的常規安全港披露。

Today's conference call may also include forward-looking statements and projections, and we ask that you refer to our most recent filings with the SEC for important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these projections.

今天的電話會議可能還包括前瞻性陳述和預測，我們請您參考我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，以了解可能導致實際結果與這些預測有重大差異的重要因素。

We do not undertake to update our forward-looking statements unless required by law.

除非法律要求，我們不承諾更新我們的前瞻性陳述。

To obtain copies of our latest SEC filings, please visit our website at pennantpark.com or call us at (212) 905-1000.

如需我們最新的 SEC 文件的副本，請造訪我們的網站 pennantpark.com 或致電我們：(212) 905-1000。

At this time, I'd like to turn the call back to our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Art Penn.

現在，我想把電話轉回給我們的董事長兼執行長阿特‧佩恩 (Art Penn)。

Thanks, Rick.

謝謝，里克。

We're going to spend a few minutes discussing the current market environment for private middle-market lending, how we fared in the quarter ended December 31, how the portfolio is positioned for the upcoming quarters, a detailed review of the financials, then open it up for Q&A.

我們將花幾分鐘時間討論私人中端市場貸款的當前市場環境，我們在截至 12 月 31 日的季度的表現如何，投資組合在未來幾個季度的定位如何，以及對財務狀況的詳細審查，然後開放問答環節。

For the quarter ended December 31, our GAAP net investment income was $0.37 per share and our core net investment income was $0.33 per share.

截至 12 月 31 日的季度，我們的 GAAP 淨投資收益為每股 0.37 美元，核心淨投資收益為每股 0.33 美元。

As of December 31, our portfolio grew to $2.2 billion or 11% from the prior quarter.

截至 12 月 31 日，我們的投資組合較上一季成長至 22 億美元，增幅為 11%。

During the quarter, we continued to originate attractive investment opportunities and invested $607 million in 11 new and 58 existing portfolio companies at a weighted average yield of 10.3%.

在本季度，我們繼續創造具有吸引力的投資機會，向 11 家新投資組合公司和 58 家現有投資組合公司投資了 6.07 億美元，加權平均收益率為 10.3%。

During the quarter, we completed the successful exit of our investment in Marketplace Events.

本季度，我們成功退出了對 Marketplace Events 的投資。

Marketplace Events is a leader in business-to-consumer home goods shows.

Marketplace Events 是 B2C 家居用品展會的領導者。

These events were shut down during COVID and EBITDA went to zero.

這些活動在 COVID 期間關閉，EBITDA 降至零。

We led the lender group in a restructuring and took control of the company in 2020.

我們帶領貸款人集團進行重組，並於 2020 年取得了對公司的控制權。

We worked with the company's excellent management team to turn around the company.

我們與公司優秀的管理團隊一起努力扭轉公司的局面。

The (technical difficulty) generated a 2.6 times multiple on our invested capital and a 19% annualized return over four years.

該（技術難題）使我們的投資資本在四年內獲得了 2.6 倍的收益和 19% 的年化回報率。

We utilized our experience in challenged situations to navigate a complex restructuring and create significant value for our shareholders through operational expertise and strategic execution.

我們利用在困難情況下的經驗來應對複雜的重組，並透過營運專業知識和策略執行為股東創造巨大價值。

We continue to see an attractive vintage in the core middle market.

我們繼續看到核心中端市場中具有吸引力的新年份葡萄酒。

During the quarter, for investments in new portfolio companies, the weighted average debt to EBITDA was 3.7 times.

本季度，對於新投資組合公司的投資，加權平均負債與 EBITDA 比率為 3.7 倍。

The weighted average interest coverage was 2.1 times, and the weighted average loan to value was 53%.

加權平均利息覆蓋率為2.1倍，加權平均貸款價值比為53%。

Subsequent to quarter end, we continue to remain active, have a robust pipeline and expect to be able to continue to deploy capital into attractive new portfolio companies.

季度末之後，我們將繼續保持活躍，擁有強大的管道，並期望能夠繼續向有吸引力的新投資組合公司部署資本。

In the core middle market, the market yield on first lien term loans appears to have stabilized in the SOFR plus 500 to 550 range.

在核心中端市場，第一留置權定期貸款的市場收益率似乎已穩定在 SOFR 加上 500 至 550 的範圍內。

As the credit statistics just highlighted indicate, we continue to believe that the current vintage of core middle market directly originated loans is excellent.

正如剛剛強調的信貸統計數據所表明的那樣，我們仍然相信，當前核心中間市場直接發放貸款的狀況非常好。

And the core middle market leverage is lower, spreads are higher, and covenants are tighter than in the upper middle market.

核心中端市場槓桿率較低、利差較高、契約較中高端市場較嚴格。

We continue to get meaningful covenant protection.

我們繼續獲得有意義的契約保護。

Pay in kind or PIK income is only 2.3% of our overall interest income.

實物支付或PIK收入僅占我們整體利息收入的2.3％。

This is among the lowest in the industry and is a testament to the quality of our underwriting and our portfolio versus our peers.

這是業內最低的水平之一，證明了我們的承保和投資組合相對於同行的品質。

As of December 31, our debt-to-equity ratio was 1.4 times to 1.

截至 12 月 31 日，我們的負債權益比率為 1.4 倍。

And with the target ratio of 1.5:1, we believe that we are well positioned to generate stable and growing NII going forward.

在 1.5:1 的目標比率下，我們相信我們有能力在未來產生穩定且成長的國家資訊基礎設施。

We expect continued stability in net investment income, in part due to our investment in the PSSL joint venture.

我們預計淨投資收益將持續保持穩定，部分原因是我們對 PSSL 合資企業的投資。

As of December 31, the JV portfolio totaled $1.1 billion and the JV remained active during the quarter and invested $225 million in 17 new and 8 existing portfolio companies at a weighted average yield of 10.3%, including $188 million of assets purchased from PFLT.

截至 12 月 31 日，合資企業的投資組合總額為 11 億美元，且合資企業在本季度保持活躍，向 17 家新投資組合公司和 8 家現有投資組合公司投資了 2.25 億美元，加權平均收益率為 10.3%，其中包括從 PFLT 購買的價值 1.8 億美元的資產。

Last quarter, we announced that PFLT and our JV partner committed an additional $100 million of capital to the JV.

上個季度，我們宣布 PFLT 和我們的合資夥伴向合資企業額外注入 1 億美元資本。

Our share is $87.5 million, which is consistent with the existing economic ownership percentage.

我們的份額為8750萬美元，這與現有的經濟所有權百分比一致。

This additional capital will allow the JV portfolio to grow to approximately $1.5 billion of assets.

這筆額外資本將使合資公司的資產組合成長至約 15 億美元。

We believe that the increase in scale of the JV's balance sheet will continue to drive attractive mid-teens returns on invested capital and enhance PFLT's earnings momentum.

我們相信，合資公司資產負債表規模的擴大將繼續推動投資資本獲得有吸引力的中等回報率，並增強 PFLT 的獲利動能。

Also, during the quarter, we grew the Truist revolving credit facility by $100 million, resulting in total commitments of $736 million.

此外，在本季度，我們將 Truist 循環信貸額度增加了 1 億美元，總承諾額達到 7.36 億美元。

There were no changes to the terms of the facility and our interest rate on the facility is SOFR plus 2.25%.

該貸款條款沒有變化，我們的貸款利率為 SOFR 加 2.25%。

Additionally, securitization financing continues to be a good match for our lower-risk first lien assets.

此外，證券化融資繼續與我們風險較低的優先留置權資產保持良好的匹配。

Last week, we priced a new financing that we expect to close by early March.

上週，我們對一項新的融資進行了定價，預計將於 3 月初完成。

The new financing is a $361 million term debt securitization transaction with a weighted average spread of 1.59%, a four-year reinvestment period and a 12-year final maturity.

新的融資是一筆 3.61 億美元的定期債務證券化交易，加權平均利差為 1.59%，再投資期為 4 年，最終到期日為 12 年。

The weighted average spread of 1.59% is a decrease of 30 basis points from an existing securitization financing that we refinanced in July of 2024.

1.59% 的加權平均利差比我們在 2024 年 7 月再融資的現有證券化融資減少了 30 個基點。

The main contributor to this decrease was a favorable market environment in which the AAA portion of the structure priced at an attractive weighted average spread of 1.49%.

造成這一下降的主要原因是有利的市場環境，其中結構的 AAA 部分定價為 1.49% 的具有吸引力的加權平均利差。

The ratio of external debt to PFLT's junior capital was 3.2 times to 1, which creates plenty of liquidity for the company.

外債與 PFLT 初級資本的比例為 3.2 比 1，為公司創造了充足的流動性。

We believe securitizations are attractive financing structures as they have a 12-year stated maturity and generally have four- to five-year reinvestment periods.

我們認為證券化是一種有吸引力的融資結構，因為它們的規定期限為 12 年，並且通常有 4 到 5 年的再投資期。

They are governed by an indenture similar to other bond instruments as opposed to other secured financings or you may have a bank credit officer on the other side of the table.

與其他擔保融資不同，它們受與其他債券工具類似的契約的管轄，或者您可能在桌子的另一邊有一位銀行信貸員。

For securitizations, the indenture prescribes how the securitization deals with credit deterioration, which means there is no risk of irrational behavior from our counterparties.

對於證券化，契約規定了證券化如何應對信用惡化，這意味著我們的交易對手不存在非理性行為的風險。

It's important to note that securitizations are non mark-to-market financings and that assets are held at par, regardless of broader market volatility.

值得注意的是，證券化是非以市價計價的融資，無論市場波動如何，資產都以面額持有。

The only time an asset gets mark-to-market would be if there are defaults or if we experience CCC downgrades that will cause an excess CCC concentration whereby the excess CCC collaterals mark-to-market.

資產唯一會進行以市價計價的情況是出現違約，或者 CCC 評級降級，從而導致 CCC 集中度過高，過多的 CCC 抵押品會按市價計價。

Once again, this is all prescribed via the indenture.

再次強調，這一切都是透過契約規定的。

And importantly, our securitization vehicles are managed with attractive CCC and overcollateralization cushions, which further mitigate any financing risk.

重要的是，我們的證券化工具採用具有吸引力的CCC和超額抵押緩衝進行管理，進一步降低了融資風險。

Our securitization issued in September of 2019, we managed that securitization through the depths of COVID and the financing worked exactly how we expected.

我們的證券化產品於 2019 年 9 月發行，我們在新冠疫情最嚴重時期成功管理了該證券化產品，融資情況完全符合我們的預期。

This has driven our confidence and our belief that securitizations are an extraordinarily attractive financing structure for our vehicles.

這增強了我們的信心和信念：證券化對我們的投資工具來說是一種極具吸引力的融資結構。

With our lower risk, lower leveraged first lien portfolio, securitizations provide an attractive cost of capital that is well matched to the portfolio.

憑藉我們較低風險、較低槓桿的優先留置權投資組合，證券化可提供與投資組合完美匹配且具吸引力的資本成本。

Equally important, they provide a downside mitigation tool given the stable and consistent long-term nature of the financing.

同樣重要的是，鑑於融資的長期穩定性和一致性，它們提供了緩解下行風險的工具。

GAAP and adjusted NAV increased 0.3% to $11.34 per share from $11.31 per share.

GAAP 和調整後淨值從每股 11.31 美元增加 0.3% 至每股 11.34 美元。

The increase in NAV for the quarter was due primarily to onetime net investment income from our realization of Marketplace Events.

本季資產淨值的成長主要歸因於我們實現市場活動帶來的一次性淨投資收益。

Credit quality of the portfolio has remained strong.

投資組合的信用品質依然強勁。

We didn't add any new investments to nonaccrual status, and nonaccruals represent only 0.4% of the portfolio cost and 0.1% at market value.

我們沒有將任何新的投資添加到非應計狀態，非應計項目僅佔投資組合成本的 0.4% 和市場價值的 0.1%。

As of December 31, the portfolio's weighted average leverage ratio through our debt security was 4.3 times, and the portfolio's weighted average interest coverage was 2.2 times.

截至 12 月 31 日，該投資組合透過我們的債務證券的加權平均槓桿率為 4.3 倍，投資組合的加權平均利息覆蓋率為 2.2 倍。

We believe this is one of the most conservatively structured portfolios in the direct lending industry and is a testament to our focus on the core middle market.

我們認為這是直接貸款產業中最保守的結構化投資組合之一，證明了我們對核心中端市場的關注。

We like being positioned for capital preservation as a senior secured first lien lender focused on the United States.

作為一家專注於美國的優先擔保第一留置權貸款機構，我們希望能夠實現資本保全。

We continue to believe that our focus on the core middle market provides the company with attractive investment opportunities where we provide important strategic capital to our borrowers.

我們始終相信，我們對核心中端市場的關注為公司提供了一個有吸引力的投資機會，我們為借款人提供了重要的策略資本。

We have a long-term track record of generating value by successfully financing growing middle-market companies in five key sectors.

我們擁有長期成功融資五個關鍵領域成長型中型市場公司的經驗，創造了價值。

These are sectors where we have substantial domain expertise, know the right questions to ask, and have an excellent track record.

在這些領域，我們擁有豐富的領域專業知識、知道要問的正確問題，並且擁有出色的業績記錄。

They are business services, consumer, government services and defense, healthcare, and software technology.

它們是商業服務、消費者、政府服務和國防、醫療保健和軟體技術。

These sectors have also been resilient and tend to generate strong free cash flow.

這些行業也具有韌性，並且往往會產生強勁的自由現金流。

In the core middle market, which we define as companies with $10 million to $50 million of EBITDA is below the threshold and does not compete with the broadly syndicated loan or high-yield markets unlike our peers in the upper market.

在核心中端市場，我們將其定義為 EBITDA 為 1,000 萬至 5,000 萬美元的公司，低於門檻，並且與高端市場的同行不同，不與廣泛銀團貸款或高收益市場競爭。

In this core middle market, because we are an important strategic lending partner, the process and package of terms we receive is attractive.

在這個核心中端市場，由於我們是重要的策略貸款合作夥伴，因此我們所獲得的流程和條款組合很有吸引力。

We have many weeks to do our due diligence with care, we thoughtfully structured transactions with sensible credit stats, meaningful covenants, substantial equity cushions to protect our capital, attractive spreads, and equity co-investment.

我們有很多周的時間來仔細進行盡職調查，我們精心構建了交易，包括合理的信用統計數據、有意義的契約、大量的股權緩衝來保護我們的資本、有吸引力的利差和股權共同投資。

Additionally, from a monitoring perspective, we receive monthly financial statements to help us stay on top of the companies.

此外，從監控的角度來看，我們每月都會收到財務報表，以幫助我們掌握公司的最新情況。

With regard to covenants, unlike the erosion in the upper middle market, virtually all of our originated first lien loans have meaningful covenants, which help protect our capital.

就契約而言，與中上層市場受到侵蝕不同，我們發起的所有第一留置權貸款幾乎都有有意義的契約，這有助於保護我們的資本。

This is a significant reason why we believe we're well positioned in this environment.

這是我們相信自己在這種環境中處於有利地位的重要原因。

Many of our peers have focused on the upper middle market state that these bigger companies or those bigger companies are less risky.

我們的許多同業都專注於中上階層市場，認為這些大公司或那些大公司的風險較小。

That may make some intuitive sense, but the reality is different.

這可能在直覺上是有道理的，但事實並非如此。

According to S&P, loans to companies with less than $50 million of EBITDA have a lower default rate and the higher recovery rate than loans to the companies with higher EBITDA.

根據標準普爾的數據，向 EBITDA 低於 5000 萬美元的公司提供的貸款，與 EBITDA 較高的公司提供的貸款相比，違約率較低，回收率較高。

We believe that the meaningful covenant protections of core middle market loans, more careful diligence and tighter monitoring have been an important part of this differentiated performance.

我們認為，核心中端市場貸款的有意義的契約保護、更謹慎的審查和更嚴格的監控是這種差異化表現的重要組成部分。

Our credit quality since inception over 13 years ago has been excellent.

自 13 年前成立以來，我們的信用品質一直非常優秀。

PFLT has invested $7.3 billion in over 500 companies, and we have experienced only 20 nonaccruals.

PFLT 已向 500 多家公司投資了 73 億美元，而我們僅遇到 20 起不計息的情況。

Since inception, our loss ratio on invested capital is only 10 basis points annually.

自成立以來，我們投資資本的損失率每年僅 10 個基點。

As a provider of strategic capital, who fuels the growth of our portfolio companies, in many cases, we participate in the upside of the company by making an equity co-investment.

作為推動我們投資組合公司成長的策略資本提供者，在許多情況下，我們透過股權共同投資來參與公司的成長。

Our returns on these equity co-investments have been excellent over time.

長期以來，我們對這些股權共同投資的回報一直很豐厚。

Overall, for our platform from inception through December 31, we have invested over $563 million in equity co-investments and have generated an IRR of 26% and a multiple on invested capital of two times.

總體而言，從成立到 12 月 31 日，我們已為平台投資了超過 5.63 億美元的股權共同投資，產生了 26% 的內部收益率和兩倍的投資倍數。

Our experienced and talented team and our wide origination funnel is producing active deal flow.

我們經驗豐富、才華橫溢的團隊和廣泛的發起管道正在產生活躍的交易流。

Our continued focus remains on capital preservation and being patient investors.

我們將繼續關注資本保全和成為耐心的投資者。

Our mission and goal are steady, stable and protected dividend stream, coupled with the preservation of capital.

我們的使命和目標是穩定、有保障的股利流，同時保全資本。

Everything we do is aligned to that goal.

我們所做的一切都是為了這個目標。

We seek to find investment opportunities in growing middle-market companies that have high free cash flow conversion.

我們尋求在具有較高自由現金流轉換率的成長型中型市場公司中尋找投資機會。

We capture that free cash flow primarily in first lien senior secured instruments, and we pay out those contractual cash flows in the form of dividends to our shareholders.

我們主要透過第一留置權優先擔保工具取得自由現金流，並以股利的形式向股東支付這些合約現金流。

Let me turn the call over to Rick, our CFO, to take us through the financial results in more detail.

讓我把電話轉給我們的財務長里克 (Rick)，讓他向我們更詳細地介紹財務結果。

Thank you, Art.

謝謝你，阿特。

For the quarter ended December 31, GAAP net investment income was $0.37 per share and core net investment income was $0.33 per share.

截至 12 月 31 日的季度，GAAP 淨投資收益為每股 0.37 美元，核心淨投資收益為每股 0.33 美元。

Core net investment income excludes $0.04 per share of accelerated accretion income, net of the impact on incentive fees related to the realization of our investment in Marketplace Events.

核心淨投資收益不包括每股 0.04 美元的加速增值收益，扣除與我們對 Marketplace Events 的投資實現相關的激勵費用的影響。

Operating expenses for the quarter were as follows: interest and expenses on debt were $22.4 million.

本季的營運費用如下：債務利息和費用為 2,240 萬美元。

Base management and performance-based incentive fees were $12.8 million.

基本管理和基於績效的激勵費用為1280萬美元。

General and administrative expenses were $1.7 million.

一般及行政開支為 170 萬美元。

And provision for taxes were $0.2 million.

稅金撥備為 20 萬美元。

For the quarter ended December 31, net realized and unrealized change on investments, including provision for taxes, was a loss of $1.6 million.

截至 12 月 31 日的季度，包括稅款準備金在內的投資淨已實現和未實現變動損失為 160 萬美元。

As of December 31, both GAAP NAV and adjusted NAV were $11.34, which is up 0.3% from $11.31 per share last quarter.

截至 12 月 31 日，GAAP 資產淨值和調整後淨值均為 11.34 美元，較上一季的每股 11.31 美元上漲 0.3%。

As of December 31, our debt-to-equity ratio was 1.4 times, and our capital structure is diversified across multiple funding sources, including both secured and unsecured debt.

截至 12 月 31 日，我們的負債權益比率為 1.4 倍，我們的資本結構多樣化，涉及多個資金來源，包括有擔保債務和無擔保債務。

As of December 31, our key portfolio statistics were as follows.

截至12月31日，我們主要的投資組合統計如下。

Our portfolio remains highly diversified with 159 companies across 49 different industries.

我們的投資組合高度多樣化，涵蓋 49 個不同行業的 159 家公司。

The weighted average yield on our debt investments was 10.6%, and approximately 100% of the debt portfolio is floating rate.

我們的債務投資的加權平均收益率為 10.6%，約 100% 的債務組合為浮動利率。

PIK income equaled only 2.3% of total interest income.

PIK收入僅佔總利息收入的2.3%。

We had two nonaccruals, which represent 0.4% of the portfolio at cost and 0.1% at market value.

我們有兩個不提項目，以成本計算佔投資組合的 0.4%，以市價計算佔 0.1%。

The portfolio is comprised of 90% first lien senior secured debt, less than 1% in second lien debt, 2% in equity of PSSL, and 8% in other equity.

該投資組合由 90% 的第一留置權優先擔保債務、不到 1% 的第二留置權債務、2% 的 PSSL 股權和 8% 的其他股權組成。

Our debt-to-equity -- our debt to EBITDA on the portfolio is 4.3 times and interest coverage was 2.2 times.

我們的債務與股權之比－投資組合的債務與 EBITDA 比率為 4.3 倍，利息覆蓋率為 2.2 倍。

Now let me turn the call back to Art.

現在讓我把電話轉回給 Art。

Thanks, Rick.

謝謝，里克。

In closing, I'd like to thank our dedicated and talented team of professionals for their continued commitment to PFLT and its shareholders.

最後，我要感謝我們敬業且才華橫溢的專業團隊對 PFLT 及其股東的持續承諾。

Thank you all for your time today and for your investment and confidence in us.

感謝大家今天抽出時間以及對我們的投入與信任。

That concludes our remarks.

我們的發言到此結束。

At this time, I would like to open up the call to questions.

現在，我想開始回答提問。

We will now open the Q&A portion of our call.

我們現在將開始電話會議的問答部分。

(Operator Instructions) Robert Dodd, Raymond James.

（操作員指示）羅伯特·多德、雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Hi guys.

嗨，大家好。

On the securitization since you -- on the rating, right, so you said it's no mark-to-market facility, so there's a presumed shadow rating.

關於證券化，因為您在評級上說過，它沒有按市價計價的工具，所以存在假定的影子評級。

Otherwise, the CCC bucket can come into it.

否則，CCC 桶就可以進入其中。

So who controls the shadow ratings inside the securitization?

那麼誰控制著證券化內部的影子評等？

And what other circumstances when those can change?

還有什麼其他情況會改變這些情況？

Obviously, you said doesn't mark to market unless the default, but how does the shadow of ratings change, if at all?

顯然，您說除非違約，否則不會以市價計價，但是評級的影子會如何變化呢？

Yeah.

是的。

Thanks, Robert.

謝謝，羅伯特。

They get -- each one gets annually -- gets an annual update.

他們每年都會得到一次年度更新。

And if there's an event during the year, we go to the -- to S&P in this case, and we share the event with them to re-rate.

如果年內發生了某個事件，我們就會去——在這種情況下是標準普爾，與他們分享該事件以重新評級。

So these are -- these are not BSL loans, probably syndicated loans where they're automatically have their finger on the pulse.

所以這些不是 BSL 貸款，可能是銀團貸款，他們會自動掌握最新動態。

It's up to us to do so when there's an event, either good or not so good.

當某件事發生時，不管是好事還是壞事，這都取決於我們自己。

Fair enough.

很公平。

And then just how -- I mean, obviously, they have been a very good structure for you.

然後如何——我的意思是，顯然，它們對你來說是一個非常好的結構。

I know there's a lower spread on that than on revolver.

我知道這比左輪手槍的利差還要小。

So it's pretty attractive.

所以它非常有吸引力。

How much of your debt stack would you be comfortable having in securitization versus revolver unsecured, however you want to chop it?

不管您想如何削減債務，您願意將多少債務以證券化形式持有，或以無擔保循環信貸形式持有？

Yeah.

是的。

So versus revolver, we'd like having both.

因此，與左輪手槍相比，我們希望兩者兼具。

Revolver is flexible.

左輪手槍很靈活。

It can fund.

它可以資助。

It can -- we view kind of securitization as a term out of revolver.

可以 — — 我們將證券化視為一種循環信貸。

It's kind of like a term loan for us.

對我們來說這有點像是定期貸款。

So revolver is good to take care of kind of funding needs that are more immediate.

因此，循環信貸非常適合解決更緊急的融資需求。

And also, it's good to have a revolver to manage that CCC bucket, right?

而且，有一把左輪手槍來管理那個 CCC 桶也是很好的，對吧？

If you get some CCCs, the revolvers will give you a borrowing base in certain cases that's better than the securitization.

如果您獲得一些 CCC，循環信貸在某些情況下會為您提供比證券化更好的借貸基礎。

So having -- and we believe we have unsecured debt, too.

所以，我們相信我們也有無擔保債務。

So we believe in having diversified funding sources, being able to move things around if need be to optimize the outcome.

因此，我們相信擁有多元化的資金來源，能夠在必要時調整資金來源以優化結果。

So we like having a revolver, we like having securitization in our mind.

所以我們喜歡擁有一把左輪手槍，我們喜歡在腦海中進行證券化。

It's a term out of the revolver, and we like having unsecured in the capital stack.

這是循環信貸中的一個術語，我們喜歡在資本堆疊中擁有無擔保資產。

Got it.

知道了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Congratulations on market placements.

恭喜您成功完成市場佈局。

So one of the questions, are you seeing more appetite and, obviously, you've got some equity in the portfolio.

所以問題之一是，您是否看到了更多的興趣，而且顯然您在投資組合中擁有一些股權。

Are you seeing more movement from -- obviously, Marketplace Events, you can kind of -- your lender could control that.

您是否看到更多來自市場活動的動向，您的貸方可以控制這一點。

So you've got to pick

所以你必須選擇

[web].

[網]。

Are you seeing more movement on owners of equity that might have the decision power versus you in terms of wanting to monetize this year on the equity side?

您是否看到股權所有者的更多變動，他們可能在希望今年在股權方面貨幣化方面擁有決策權？

Or any color on like how that's shaking out because obviously just had a pretty nice return on Marketplace there?

或者有任何細節可以說明情況如何，因為顯然那裡的 Marketplace 回報相當不錯？

Yeah.

是的。

Look, it's a good time to assess M&A options, and we've seen it in both in cases like Marketplace Events where we do have an ownership stake as well as when we're more passive as an equity co-invest.

看起來，現在是評估併購選擇的好時機，我們在 Marketplace Events 等我們擁有所有權的案例中以及我們作為股權共同投資而更加被動的案例中都看到了這一點。

We do believe 2025 will be active.

我們確實相信 2025 年將會很活躍。

It is time for these private equity sponsors to generate liquidity.

現在是這些私募股權發起人產生流動性的時候了。

Interest rates may not be as low as they would have liked.

利率可能不會像他們希望的那樣低。

We're kind of in a higher for longer environment, it seems like.

看起來，我們正處於一個更長期更高的環境。

But we do think it's time after many years of kind of -- it's coming, it's coming, kind of this year as being the year.

但我們確實認為，經過多年的等待，是時候了——它即將到來，它即將到來，今年就是這一年。

That said, in the middle market, as you can see, it's different than the upper market.

話雖如此，但如你所見，中端市場與高端市場有所不同。

Upper market has been a lot more dormant than the core middle market.

與核心中階市場相比，高端市場一直處於低迷狀態。

We've been very active.

我們一直都非常活躍。

And we still think in our core, there's companies that do $10 million, $15 million, $20 million where the entrepreneur wants a liquidity solution and those companies have some runway to grow and do add-on acquisitions.

我們仍然認為，在我們的核心業務中，有些公司的營業額為 1,000 萬美元、1,500 萬美元或 2,000 萬美元，創業家需要流動性解決方案，而這些公司有一定的成長空間並進行附加收購。

So we think on the buy side, we're going to continue to be active.

因此我們認為，從買方角度來說，我們將繼續保持活躍。

And we also believe that '25 will be active on the exit side.

我們也相信，25 在退出方面將會發揮積極作用。

PFLT has got, as we said, about a 9% equity [Comvest] portfolio.

正如我們所說，PFLT 擁有約 9% 的股票 [Comvest] 投資組合。

We think that will rotate nicely here in 2025.

我們認為到 2025 年這種情況將會順利輪調。

Okay.

好的。

One more, if I can.

如果可以的話，再說一個。

On the JV, I mean, obviously, you've now got capacity up to $1.5 billion, really nice returns.

關於合資，我的意思是，顯然你現在的產能已經達到 15 億美元，回報真的很棒。

So I mean, how fast -- if '25 is active, do you think you're going to fill that $1.5 billion by, say, year-end or is it a longer term?

所以我的意思是，如果 25 年計劃實施，您認為到年底能籌集到 15 億美元嗎，還是需要更長的時間？

I mean

我是說

(multiple speakers)

（多位發言者）

Yeah.

是的。

Look, to us, it's all comprehensive.

看，對我們來說，這一切都是全面的。

It's all one ecosystem, PFLT and the JV.

這是一個生態系統、PFLT 和 JV。

So we obviously put assets in PFLT.

因此我們顯然將資產投入了 PFLT。

On the initial, we [seize] them for a little while, then when applicable, they move over to the JV, if it makes sense.

最初，我們會暫時接管它們，然後，當適用時，如果合理的話，再將它們轉移到合資企業。

So look, to the prior comment, we think '25 will be busy.

因此，根據先前的評論，我們認為 25 號將會很忙。

So we think that we'll be able to get to the $1.5 billion in the JV in the next 9 to 12 months.

因此我們認為我們將能夠在未來 9 到 12 個月內將合資資金達到 15 億美元。

Brian McKenna, Citizens JMP.

布萊恩·麥肯納 (Brian McKenna)，公民 JMP。

All right, thanks.

好的，謝謝。

Good morning, guys.

大家早安。

So a question on deployment to Star.

關於部署到 Star 有一個問題。

Clearly, it was a robust quarter.

顯然，這是一個強勁的季度。

With $600 million plus of originations, you have a bit more capacity on leverage.

有了 6 億美元以上的貸款，您的槓桿能力就會增強一些。

So how should we think about the pace of originations over the next few quarters?

那我們該如何看待未來幾季的發起速度呢？

Look, it was an unusually active quarter ended December.

你看，截至 12 月的一個季度異常活躍。

Calendar quarter one, which we're in at this point, is a little slower, and that's a typical seasonal movement.

我們現在所處的日曆第一季稍微慢一些，這是典型的季節性變化。

People always want to close deals by December.

人們總是希望在十二月前完成交易。

They come up for air in January and takes a little slower.

它們在一月浮出水面呼吸，速度稍微慢一些。

So right now, it's a little bit slower than it was in December, and we are getting some repayments along the way.

所以現在，速度比 12 月稍微慢一些，而且我們正在獲得一些還款。

So again, to my prior comments, I think '25 overall will be busy, but we think it's kind of in ramp mode right now with kind of Q1 -- calendar quarter one through February 11, today, relatively modest.

所以，再次重申我之前的評論，我認為 25 年總體來說會很忙，但我們認為現在處於增長模式，第一季（日曆第一季到今天 2 月 11 日）的情況相對溫和。

So it will be time to reload, get some refis, look for deals for both the balance sheet and the JV and look to try to, most importantly, remain selective.

因此，現在是時候重新加載、獲得一些再融資、尋找資產負債表和合資企業的交易，並嘗試保持選擇性。

I mean, you can see the new loans that we're doing are cash pay.

我的意思是，您可以看到，我們發放的新貸款都是以現金支付。

PIK is only 2% of this portfolio and that kind of 4 times or less debt-to-EBITDA, 2 times or more interest coverage, loan-to-value 50%.

PIK 僅佔該投資組合的 2%，債務與 EBITDA 比率為 4 倍或更低，利息覆蓋率為 2 倍或更高，貸款價值比為 50%。

That's our strike zone.

那是我們的打擊區。

And we're going to stick to it.

我們將堅持下去。

We're not going to lose our minds where there's no software in this portfolio, there's no ARR loans.

我們不會因為這個投資組合中沒有軟體、沒有 ARR 貸款而失去理智。

We're going to try to keep a cautious and conservative posture at the new loan level, and then we will try to optimize our financing the way we've been talking about through securitization, through revolvers, and through the JV.

我們將嘗試在新的貸款水平上保持謹慎和保守的態度，然後我們將嘗試透過證券化、循環信貸和合資企業以我們一直談論的方式優化我們的融資。

Yeah.

是的。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

And then just a follow-up on originations.

然後只是對起源的跟進。

How should we think about the mix of new investments versus add-on?

我們應該如何考慮新投資與附加投資的組合？

Clearly, it's been more weighted to add-on.

顯然，附加功能更加重要。

So what's the expectation here over the next 12 months, call it?

那麼，未來 12 個月的預期是什麼？

And then we'll see exactly the trajectory of kind of new deals in M&A broadly, but does this split start to become more balanced kind of over time?

然後我們將廣泛地看到併購領域新交易的確切軌跡，但隨著時間的推移，這種劃分是否會開始變得更加平衡？

Yeah.

是的。

We think it will be more balanced.

我們認為它會更加平衡。

Look, one of the nice things about the way we do things is our prototypical deals will start with $10 million to $15 million to $20 million EBITDA company.

你看，我們做事方式的一個優點是，我們的典型交易將從 EBITDA 為 1000 萬美元到 1500 萬美元到 2000 萬美元的公司開始。

With a game plan by the sponsor to grow that company to do add-on acquisitions, so we will set up, in many cases, some substantial delayed draw term loans -- what you're kind of built in flow in companies that we know and we like where we're a strategic partner or it's not about the last basis point where we do have a co-invest and we can benefit from those delayed draw.

由於發起人制定了發展該公司並進行附加收購的計劃，因此在許多情況下，我們將設立一些實質性的延期提取定期貸款 - 在我們了解並喜歡的公司中建立流動資金，我們是戰略合作夥伴，或者不是最後一個基點，我們確實有共同投資，我們可以從這些延期提取中受益。

So if you set it up right to begin with, which is kind of how we try to do it, the flow comes and it's you -- it's kind of, in some way, shooting fish in a barrel because you know you kind of know exactly what you're getting.

所以如果你一開始就正確設定它，就像我們嘗試做的那樣，流程就會隨之而來，而你就是其中的一員——在某種程度上，這就像甕中之鱉，因為你知道你確切地知道你會得到什麼。

Okay.

好的。

That's great.

那太棒了。

And then just one, last one for me, Art, just a bigger picture question.

然後對我來說只剩下最後一個問題了，阿特，這是一個更大的問題。

You've clearly built a great big (inaudible) the broader PennantPark platform, I believe, manages about $10 billion of AUM.

您顯然已經建立了一個龐大的（聽不清楚）更廣泛的 PennantPark 平台，我相信，該平台管理著約 100 億美元的 AUM。

So I'm curious, I mean, where does the platform go longer term, just kind of thinking about growth or even the trajectory of AUM?

所以我很好奇，我的意思是，這個平台的長期發展方向是什麼，只是考慮成長甚至 AUM 的軌跡？

And then as you reach greater levels of scale, over time, what does that ultimately mean for PFLT?

然後，隨著時間的推移，隨著規模達到更大水平，這對 PFLT 最終意味著什麼？

Yeah.

是的。

Look, the mission of PFLT, which is to provide senior secured floating rate capital in a conservative fashion to middle-market private equity sponsors, there really aren't that many people who are left in that space like us, who will take a company literally from $10 million of EBITDA up to $50 million and can do it all in-house.

你看，PFLT 的使命是以保守的方式向中型私募股權發起人提供優先擔保浮動利率資本，真的沒有多少人像我們一樣留在這個領域，我們能夠將一家公司的 EBITDA 從 1000 萬美元提升到 5000 萬美元，並且能夠在內部完成所有工作。

We can now do that.

現在我們可以這樣做了。

We couldn't always do that, but with the growth of the platform to the AUM that you talked about, we're one of only a few who can -- who is willing to start it out at $10 million of EBITDA and can say we got you up until $40 million, $50 million, and you only need to talk to us.

我們並不總是能做到這一點，但隨著平台成長到您提到的 AUM，我們是少數能夠做到這一點的公司之一——我們願意以 1000 萬美元的 EBITDA 起步，並可以說我們能幫您把 EBITDA 提高到 4000 萬美元、5000 萬美元，而您只需要與我們溝通。

That's a nice place to be.

那真是一個好地方。

We're below the radar of the big massive branded direct lenders who seem to have no interest in this kind of below the radar space.

我們不受大型品牌直接貸款機構的關注，他們似乎對這種不受關注的領域不感興趣。

So we think we've got a lot of runway.

因此我們認為我們還有很長的路要走。

And there's -- it's a great thing about the American economy.

這對美國經濟來說是一件偉大的事。

There's all kinds of interesting companies out there that could use this capital.

有各種各樣有趣的公司可以利用這些資本。

It's one of the best parts about our job is that every day, we're learning about new companies, new industries.

我們的工作最棒的部分之一就是我們每天都在了解新公司、新產業。

We're meeting new entrepreneurs, new financial sponsors.

我們將會見新的企業家、新的金融贊助商。

And we get to learn and we get to select which of these companies and sponsors and management teams we want to back.

我們要學習並選擇我們想要支持哪些公司、贊助商和管理團隊。

So it's a real joy to come to work every day and see the American economy in all these different areas.

因此，每天上班並看到美國經濟各領域的發展真是一件令人高興的事。

And we're really excited about it.

我們對此感到非常興奮。

We said to be direct, we think there's a lot of runway for what we're doing for a long period of time.

我們說要直接，我們認為長期所做的事情有很大的發展空間。

Mark Hughes, Truist.

馬克·休斯，Truist。

Yeah, thank you.

是的，謝謝。

Good morning.

早安.

Art, anything -- the economic topics of the day around the dodge or tariff.

藝術，任何東西——圍繞著躲避或關稅的當今經濟話題。

As you look at your portfolio, how do you think you're positioned relative to some of these dynamics?

當您審視自己的作品集時，您認為自己相對於這些動態因素所處的位置如何？

Yeah.

是的。

So thankfully, on tariffs, there's very limited exposure.

因此幸運的是，關稅方面的影響非常有限。

Those tariffs are usually around offshore manufacturing.

這些關稅通常與離岸製造有關。

It's a little bit of it, but it's not really that material.

有一點，但並不是那麼重要。

And given the tariff maneuvers during the prior Trump administration, many of those companies already kind of proactively moved to Vietnam or India or Mexico or else -- or Mexico is also placed, but other places outside of the Far East.

鑑於前川普政府採取的關稅舉措，許多公司已經主動遷移到越南、印度、墨西哥等地，或也遷移到墨西哥，但不是遠東地區的其他地方。

So tariffs is kind of back again, but many of our companies kind of took proactive action and those companies are relatively small part of the portfolio.

因此，關稅又回來了，但我們的許多公司都採取了主動行動，而這些公司在我們的投資組合中所佔的比例相對較小。

Our two biggest industry groups are healthcare, number one, and government contracting and defense, number two.

我們最大的兩個產業集團是醫療保健（第一）以及政府承包和國防（第二）。

Healthcare is the largest piece of the US economy.

醫療保健是美國經濟的最大組成部分。

It's over 20% of the US economy.

其占美國經濟的20%以上。

It's the largest piece of our portfolio.

這是我們投資組合中最大的一塊。

As you know, we focus on companies in healthcare that are on the right side of providing cost savings because if your -- reimbursement risk is always a risk in healthcare.

如您所知，我們專注於醫療保健領域在提供成本節約方面表現出色的公司，因為如果您的——報銷風險始終是醫療保健領域的風險。

So one way you deal with that is you back companies that are delivering cost savings and still delivering high-quality care.

因此，解決這個問題的一種方法是支持那些節省成本且仍提供高品質護理的公司。

So we think we're well positioned there to weather anything that is thrown at us because we're back in companies that are reducing costs.

因此，我們認為，我們已做好準備，可以抵禦任何可能遇到的挑戰，因為我們回到了正在降低成本的公司。

They're going to win.

他們將會勝利。

Same thing on government contracting.

政府承包也是同樣。

A lot of the government contracting are -- I call them people businesses where people walk into offices, they sit behind computers.

很多政府承包都是──我稱之為人力企業，人們走進辦公室，坐在電腦前。

And they can be doing cybersecurity, they could be doing satellites, they could be doing intelligence.

他們可以進行網路安全、衛星研究、情報工作。

It's not very much in tanks and missiles and things of that nature.

它在坦克、導彈和諸如此類的東西中並不常見。

And again, most of these companies are on the right side of either technology upgrades and/or reducing costs.

而且，大多數公司在技術升級和/或降低成本方面都做得正確。

To drill down further, there's generally two types of contracts and government contracting.

進一步深入研究，通常有兩種類型的合約和政府合約。

There's the cost plus where the government is reimbursing for the cost of the team plus a margin.

還有成本加成，即政府補償球隊的成本加上一定的利潤。

And in those cases, those EBITDA margins are typically under 10%.

在這些情況下，EBITDA 利潤率通常低於 10%。

So it's not like any of those companies are making exorbitant profit margins in the cost-plus side.

因此，這些公司在成本加成方面並沒有獲得過高的利潤。

And then you have fixed price contracts, which I think is where the world is probably headed where the risk is on the contractor to provide the service at a fixed price.

然後你就有了固定價格合同，我認為這可能是世界的發展方向，即承包商以固定價格提供服務，風險由承包商承擔。

And if they do it well, if they operate well, they're going to make higher margins.

如果他們做得好、運作良好，他們就會獲得更高的利潤。

And obviously, if they don't operate well, they're going to make lower margins or lose money.

顯然，如果他們經營不善，他們的利潤就會降低甚至虧損。

The piece of the portfolio that has fixed price, we believe, are excellent operators.

我們相信，投資組合中具有固定價格的部分都是優秀的營運商。

They're making very good margins because they're really excellent operators and are not going to price a fixed price contract unless they make sure it's judicious and careful and also providing value to the government.

他們獲得了非常高的利潤，因為他們是真正優秀的運營商，而且他們不會制定固定價格合同，除非他們確保其明智和謹慎，並且也能為政府提供價值。

So that's a long-winded answer, and we can go into more detail offline, if you like.

這是一個冗長的答案，如果您願意的話，我們可以離線討論更詳細的內容。

But by and large, we think we're well positioned, but we're -- and we're watchful.

但總的來說，我們認為我們處於有利地位，但我們——並且我們保持警惕。

And of course, as taxpayers, we want the government to spend its taxpayers dollars -- our taxpayer is dollars efficiently.

當然，身為納稅人，我們希望政府能夠有效率地使用納稅人的錢——我們的納稅人的錢。

So time will tell, but we believe we're on top of it.

時間會告訴我們真相，但我們相信我們能夠做到。

Understood.

明白了。

And then what kind of visibility or what should we anticipate in terms of just the portfolio shifts from a PFLT to PSSL, some meaningful moves this quarter?

那麼，就投資組合從 PFLT 轉向 PSSL 而言，我們應該預期本季會出現哪些有意義的舉措？

How should we think about the coming quarters or so?

我們該如何看待未來幾季？

Yeah.

是的。

It ebbs and flows.

它時而漲潮，時而退潮。

It depends on kind of where we are in that cycle of ramping up and securitize -- to the earlier question, we kind of view securitizations.

這取決於我們在擴張和證券化週期中所處的位置——對於先前的問題，我們看待證券化的方式有點類似。

And PSSL is kind of a term out kind of thing.

PSSL 是一種術語。

So as we build the PFLT balance sheet, we'll then sell assets upon approval of our JV partner.

因此，當我們建立 PFLT 資產負債表時，我們將在合資夥伴的批准下出售資產。

Remember, our JV partner has to approve every transfer.

請記住，我們的合資夥伴必須批准每次轉讓。

Upon approval of the JV partner, the asset will move over, and then we'll try to finance it efficiently over in the joint venture.

經合資夥伴批准後，資產將轉移，然後我們將嘗試在合資企業中有效地為其融資。

So it ebbs and flows.

所以，它會潮起潮落。

It really just depends on deal flow and refinancing and also financing needs.

這實際上取決於交易流程、再融資和融資需求。

To do a securitization, you need to have kind of at least $300 million of assets in one place to do a medium securitization or a small securitization.

要進行證券化，你需要在一個地方擁有至少 3 億美元的資產才能進行中型證券化或小型證券化。

So when facilities -- when credit facilities get ramped up to $300 million or $350 million or $400 million, that's a good time for us to think about doing a securitization.

因此，當信貸額度增加到 3 億美元、3.5 億美元或 4 億美元時，我們就可以利用這個機會來考慮進行證券化。

Mickey Schleien, Ladenburg.

米奇‧施萊恩，拉登堡。

Yeah, good morning, everyone.

是的，大家早安。

Art, you mentioned that we slightly saw some stabilization of spreads in the market this quarter.

阿特，您提到，本季我們看到市場利差略有穩定。

I'd like to understand what you think were the trends behind that and what is your outlook for spreads this year?

我想了解您認為背後的趨勢是什麼，以及您對今年的利差前景有何看法？

Yeah, a good question.

是的，這是個好問題。

Spreads have stabilized in the $500 million for us -- $500 million to $550 million, spread over SOFR, for this core middle market.

對我們來說，利差已穩定在 5 億美元左右——對於這個核心中間市場來說，SOFR 利差為 5 億美元至 5.5 億美元。

Occasionally, you'll see a $475 million when a particular lender kind of loves, loves, loves the scenario.

偶爾，當某個貸款人非常喜歡這種情況時，你會看到 4.75 億美元的貸款。

What drive was just kind of math, a certain level in the core middle market, it just doesn't make sense.

驅動力只是一種數學，在核心中端市場的某個層面上，這根本沒有意義。

So I think the math was helpful.

所以我認為數學是有幫助的。

I think people want to feel good about delivering a double-digit unlevered return to their investors.

我認為人們希望為投資者帶來兩位數的無槓桿回報而感到高興。

Leverage can obviously enhance that and all of that.

槓桿顯然可以增強這一點以及所有這些。

But I think kind of both the absolute spread and the -- of a double-digit and a relative spread.

但我認為，既有絕對差距，也有兩位數和相對差距。

And then also relative to the broadly syndicated loan market, which has compressed.

此外，相對於廣泛的銀團貸款市場而言，該市場也已經受到壓縮。

So for now, it's stable.

所以就目前而言，它是穩定的。

I think supply-demand could impact, if there's a lot of supply, which we hope perhaps spreads will widen.

我認為，如果供應量很大，供需可能會產生影響，我們希望價差可能會擴大。

If there's limited supply, they may tighten what goes on in the geopolitical sphere, what goes on with Washington, with tariffs, all the Fed, all of this will certainly play into it.

如果供應有限，他們可能會收緊地緣政治領域的行動，華盛頓的行動、關稅、聯準會的行動，所有這些肯定都會對其產生影響。

But at least at this point in time, for the next quarter or two, we sent some stability.

但至少目前為止，在接下來的一個或兩個季度裡，我們傳遞了一些穩定。

That's good to hear.

我很高興聽到這個消息。

Art, the senior loan fund is generating really strong ROE, which is great.

阿特，高級貸款基金正在產生非常強勁的 ROE，這很好。

But your equity investment is now valued at less than 50% of cost.

但現在您的股權投資價值還不到成本的 50％。

Could you just give us a high-level sense of what's driving those markdowns, which was sort of persisted quarter after quarter for quite a while?

您能否從整體上向我們介紹一下導致這些降價現象的原因？

Yeah.

是的。

I mean, look, as you know, Mickey, and you cover the industry and you also cover the CLO industry, not all deals perform well, and the JV does not take equity co-invest, right?

我的意思是，米奇，如你所知，你關注這個行業，也關注 CLO 產業，並不是所有的交易都表現良好，而且合資企業不接受股權共同投資，對嗎？

So the equity coinvest is retained in PFLT.

因此，股權共同投資保留在 PFLT 中。

So that investment that might have some upside, which are the co-invest, is not part of the JV.

因此，可能具有一定優勢的投資，即共同投資，不屬於合資企業的一部分。

Our JV partner did not want to coinvest.

我們的合資夥伴不想共同投資。

So when there's markdowns or when there's a default, the JV will participate in that and not have the opportunity to participate in that 26%, 2 times MOIC upside opportunity that we have in the BDC, the PFLT balance sheet.

因此，當出現降價或違約時，合資企業將參與其中，而沒有機會參與我們在 BDC（PFLT 資產負債表）中所擁有的 26%、2 倍 MOIC 上行機會。

So that's kind of -- so if you can look at some of the markdowns, the JV participates in the markdowns but does not have the benefit of the markups.

所以，如果你看看一些降價，你會發現合資企業參與了降價，但沒有享受到加價的好處。

And that's really because our JV partner at the time we set up was not interested in participating in the co-invest.

這其實是因為我們成立時的合資夥伴對參與共同投資不感興趣。

Yeah, I understand.

是的，我明白。

I didn't realize that was the case, and that makes sense.

我沒有意識到情況是這樣，而且這很有道理。

A couple of sort of more housekeeping questions.

還有一些比較常規​​的問題。

What proportion of your unfunded commitments, which are almost $700 million, are at your discretion versus your borrower's discretion?

您的未撥付承諾總額（約 7 億美元）中，有多少比例是由您自行決定的，有多少比例是由借款人自行決定的？

Yeah.

是的。

Let me see if I have some data for you, and Rick Allorto, you can chime in.

讓我看看是否有一些數據可以提供給你，Rick Allorto，你也可以加入。

There's two types of commitments.

有兩種類型的承諾。

Generally, there's the revolver, which is at their sway.

一般情況下，他們都會隨身帶著左輪手槍。

I think it's about $437 million to be -- excuse me, $238 million of revolver.

我認為大約是 4.37 億美元——對不起，是 2.38 億美元的左輪手槍。

So that's at their discretion.

所以這取決於他們的決定。

And if you go back to COVID, which was kind of when certain people drew the revolver, I'd say about 40% of revolvers were drawn during COVID.

如果你回顧 COVID 疫情，當時某些人拔出了左輪手槍，我想說大約 40% 的左輪手槍是在 COVID 疫情期間拔出的。

Many people did not.

許多人卻沒有。

And then the delayed draws are a little bit more at our discretion because we're doing diligence.

由於我們正在盡職盡責，因此延遲提款更多地取決於我們的判斷。

We're making sure that the companies are meeting their covenants and meeting their commitments, and that's a little over $400 million, $437 million to be exact, in delayed draws by and large.

我們正在確保各公司履行其約定和承諾，總的來說，延遲提款金額略高於 4 億美元，確切地說是 4.37 億美元。

So that's a little bit more in our sway.

所以這對我們的影響更大一些。

And the nice thing about these two elements is they kind of are never -- they're never happening at the same time.

這兩個元素的美妙之處在於它們從來不會——它們從來不會同時發生。

You go back to COVID, people drew their revolvers to some extent, the delay draw activity went to zero because there was no deal flow and everyone kind of pulled back.

回顧 COVID，人們在某種程度上拔出了左輪手槍，由於沒有交易流，延遲拔槍活動降至零，每個人都退縮了。

On the other hand, when economic times are good, people do not draw revolvers and the delayed draw activity tends to be a little bit more active.

另一方面，在經濟情勢好的時候，人們不會動用左輪手槍，而且延遲動用活動往往會更活躍。

Yeah.

是的。

Understood.

明白了。

So liquidity looks fine.

因此流動性看起來良好。

And lastly, just in terms of the balance sheet, I know from time to time, the external manager subsidizes to some extent ATM issuance, so you're not issuing below NAV.

最後，就資產負債表而言，我知道外部經理不時會在一定程度上補貼 ATM 發行，因此您的發行不會低於資產淨值。

Can you just give us a sense of how much of a subsidy the external managers are willing to absorb?

您能否告訴我們外部管理人員願意吸收多少補貼？

For example, would you issue stock at this current price relative to NAV?

例如，您會按照相對於資產淨值的當前價格發行股票嗎？

We don't disclose that.

我們不會透露這一點。

We disclose the ATM activity, obviously, every quarter.

顯然，我們每季都會揭露 ATM 活動情況。

In certain cases, depending -- I think a lot of it depends on deal flow and activity levels and vintage, right?

在某些情況下，這取決於——我認為很大程度上取決於交易流程和活動水平和年份，對嗎？

So if you think you're capturing a good vintage and you think that vintage is going to be accretive for shareholders, you may look to subsidize.

因此，如果您認為自己收穫了好年份的葡萄酒，並認為該年份的葡萄酒將為股東帶來增值，您可能會考慮提供補貼。

If you think -- if you're slower or the vintage is a little less attractive, you may not.

如果您認為——如果您的速度較慢或年份不那麼有吸引力，那麼您可能不會。

So it's a case-by-case basis.

所以這是一個具體問題具體分析的問題。

Every day is a new day with what's going on with our flow and then what's obviously going on with the stock market and the price.

每天都是新的一天，我們的流程在發生什麼，股票市場和價格顯然也在發生什麼。

Look, we will consider things that are accretive for shareholders.

你看，我們會考慮那些對股東有利的事。

Going back to a long time ago, PFLT bought a busted BDC called MCG Capital.

追溯到很久以前，PFLT 收購了一家名為 MCG Capital 的破產 BDC。

And the management company brought a pretty big check to do that deal, and that was very accretive for the company.

管理公司為這筆交易拿出了相當大的一筆錢，這對公司來說非常有利。

It added a lot [of heft] -- it added a lot of liquidity, and it ended up being a really, really good deal.

它增加了很多[分量]——增加了很多流動性，最終成為了一筆非常非常好的交易。

And we wrote a big check at that point.

那時我們就開了一張大支票。

And in some ways, these little ATMs are smaller versions of that.

從某種程度上來說，這些小型 ATM 機就是那種機器的縮小版。

It just depends on the facts and circumstances at that point in time.

這只取決於當時的事實和情況。

Paul Johnson.

保羅·約翰遜。

Yes, thanks.

是的，謝謝。

Good morning.

早安.

The Marketplace Events exit, does that trigger any sort of special dividend potentially over the course of the year?

市場活動的退出是否會在年內引發任何形式的特別股利？

I'll kick it over to Rick.

我會把它交給里克。

It certainly increases our spillover amount.

這無疑增加了我們的溢出量。

We tend not to pay out special dividends.

我們傾向於不支付特別股息。

We tend to use spillovers cushion for dividends.

我們傾向於使用溢出緩衝來支付股息。

We can certainly talk offline.

我們當然可以線下交談。

You want about dividend policy and the right dividend policy, the wrong dividend policy and supplementals and we're always learning from others as to how to best think about that.

您想了解股利政策和正確的股利政策、錯誤的股利政策及補充政策，而我們總是向他人學習如何最好地思考這些問題。

But in general, we use it to increase spillover, which increases cushion for a steady stable dividend, which is one of our highest goals is to provide a steady, stable dividend.

但總的來說，我們用它來增加外溢效應，從而為穩定的股息增加緩衝，而我們的最高目標之一就是提供穩定的股息。

Thanks, Art.

謝謝，阿特。

And just one last question on credit hire level.

最後一個問題是關於信用租賃水準的。

Nonaccruals were obviously stable quarter over quarter.

不提列項目環比明顯保持穩定。

It seems like another good quarter for credit.

這似乎又是信貸業務表現良好的一個季度。

But how would you, I guess, describe any sort of amendment activity you might have seen during the quarter or here to start the year and if any sort of broader maybe credit migrations just within the portfolio?

但是，我想，您會如何描述您在本季度或今年初可能看到的任何修正活動，以及是否存在任何更廣泛的、可能僅在投資組合內出現的信貸遷移？

Yeah.

是的。

There's nothing abnormal going on.

沒有什麼異常發生。

There's always a handful -- we have 159 companies in PFLT.

數量總是有限的——PFLT 中有 159 家公司。

So there's always a handful of companies that the covenants may be an issue or they may be underperforming, including the nonaccruals.

因此，總有少數公司的契約可能有問題，或者業績可能不佳，包括未提列費用。

So nothing abnormal.

所以沒什麼異常。

But as you'd imagine, it's one of the reasons we'd like being so diversified with 159 companies is no one company can really kind of bring you down.

但正如您所想像的，我們希望透過 159 家公司實現多元化發展的原因之一是，沒有一家公司能夠真正打倒您。

So I'd say it's normal activity.

所以我認為這是正常活動。

There's nothing abnormal, but we're always watchful and we're always on top of it.

沒有什麼異常，但我們始終保持警惕，並始終關注此事。

And hey, if you have an average debt-to-EBITDA of 4.3 times and average interest coverage of 2.2 times, hopefully, we've built in substantial cushion even if there were some curveballs thrown against this portfolio.

嘿，如果你的平均債務與 EBITDA 比率為 4.3 倍，平均利息覆蓋率為 2.2 倍，那麼即使這個投資組合出現一些意外情況，我們也希望能夠建立充足的緩衝。

All right, thank you so much.

好的，非常感謝。

That concludes today's question-and-answer session.

今天的問答環節到此結束。

I'd now like to turn the conference back over to Art Penn for any additional or closing remarks.

現在，我想將會議交還給阿特·佩恩，請他發表任何補充意見或結束語。

Thank you, everybody, for being on the call today.

感謝大家今天的電話會議。

We look forward to speaking with you next in early May when we'll be talking about the 3/31 financial results.

我們期待在五月初與您進行下次交談，屆時我們將討論 3 月 31 日的財務結果。

In the meantime, wishing everybody a great rest of the winter, and we'll speak to you in the early spring.

同時，祝大家有個愉快的冬天，我們會在初春與大家交談。

And this concludes today's call.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

Thank you for your participation.

感謝您的參與。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連線。