PDF Solutions Inc (PDFS) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone and welcome to the PDF Solutions Inc conference calls to discuss its financial results for the fourth quarter and year end 2024, ending Tuesday, December 31, 2024. (Operator Instructions)

大家好，歡迎參加 PDF Solutions Inc 電話會議，討論截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日星期二的 2024 年第四季度和年終的財務業績。（操作員指令）

As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. If you have not yet received a copy of the corresponding press release, it has been posted to PDF's website at www.pdf.com.

提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。如果您尚未收到相應新聞稿的副本，它已發佈在 PDF 的網站 www.pdf.com 上。

Some of the statements that will be made in the course of this conference are forward-looking, including statements regarding PDF's future financial results and performance, growth rates, and demand for its solutions. PDF's actual results could differ materially. You should refer to the section entitled Risk factors on page 17 through 30 of PDF's annual report on Form 10-k for the fiscal year ending December 31, 2023, and similar disclosures and subsequent SEC filings. The forward-looking statements and risks stated in this conference call are based on information available to PDF today. PDF assumes no obligation to update them.

這次會議期間將發表的一些聲明是前瞻性的，包括有關 PDF 未來財務業績和業績、成長率以及對其解決方案的需求的聲明。PDF 的實際結果可能有很大差異。您應該參考 PDF 截至 2023 年 12 月 31 日的財政年度 10-k 表年度報告第 17 至 30 頁標題為「風險因素」的部分，以及類似的揭露和隨後的 SEC 文件。本次電話會議中提出的前瞻性陳述和風險是基於 PDF 今天掌握的資訊。PDF 不承擔更新它們的義務。

Now I'd like to introduce John Kibarian, PDF's President and Chief Executive Officer; and Adnan Raza, PDF's Chief Financial Officer. Mr. Kibarian, please go ahead.

現在我想介紹 PDF 總裁兼執行長 John Kibarian；以及 PDF 財務長 Adnan Raza。基巴里安先生，請繼續。

Thank you for joining us on today's call. If you have not already seen our earnings press release and management report for the fourth quarter and the full year, please go to the investors section of our website where each has been posted.

感謝您參加今天的電話會議。如果您還沒有看到我們第四季和全年的收益新聞稿和管理報告，請造訪我們網站的投資者部分，其中已發布每份報告。

Today I will start by reviewing 2024 with a particular focus on Q4. I will then provide our perspective on the semi-cultural market and conclude with our outlook on PDF Solutions prospects for the year and beyond. I will then provide an overview of our financial results and his perspective on the business before we turn the call over for questions.

今天，我將首先回顧 2024 年，特別關注第四季度。然後，我將提供我們對半文化市場的看法，並總結我們對今年及以後 PDF 解決方案前景的展望。然後，我將概述我們的財務表現和他對業務的看法，然後再轉入提問環節。

A year ago, when we talked about 2024, we anticipated revenue for the first half of the year being roughly comparable to the previous year and then in the second half of the year our revenue growth would approach our target growth rate of 20%.

一年前，當我們談到 2024 年時，我們預計上半年的收入將與去年大致相當，然後下半年我們的收入成長將接近 20% 的目標成長率。

Revenue for the second half of the year was up about 16% and up 22% for the fourth quarter. Each one compared to the same period during the previous year. The return to growth in the second half of the year was due to leading an advanced packaging companies making investments in process control and yield improvement. This was reflected in our sales of Extensio process control and the eProbe in the second half of the year.

下半年營收成長約16%，第四季營收成長22%。每個都與去年同期進行了比較。下半年恢復成長的原因是領先的先進封裝公司在製程控制和產量改進方面進行了投資。這反映在我們下半年 Extensio 製程控制和 eProbe 的銷售上。

For Q4, we are happy to announce that the manufacturing evaluation of the eProbe converted to revenue in the quarter. The customer elected to purchase the machine early due to achievement of the evaluation containers sooner than they had anticipated. Similar to this customer, we believe other customers will elect to purchase the hardware and then subscribe to the software and services on a radable basis.

對於第四季度，我們很高興地宣布，eProbe 的製造評估已在本季度轉化為收入。由於評估箱的完成時間比他們預期的要早，因此客戶選擇提前購買機器。與這位客戶類似，我們相信其他客戶也會選擇購買硬件，然後以可比方式訂購軟體和服務。

As we discuss our outlook for 2025 and beyond, we will discuss the implications of the eProbe purchases via sale model for the machine to our business. Beyond the eProbe purchase in the fourth quarter, the majority of other bookings in the quarter were for Extensio and runtime licenses of our symmetrics control and communication software.

當我們討論 2025 年及以後的展望時，我們將討論透過銷售模式購買 eProbe 機器對我們業務的影響。除了第四季度購買的 eProbe 之外，本季大部分其他訂單都是針對 Extensio 和我們的對稱控制和通訊軟體的運行時許可證。

Also in the fourth quarter, we sponsored an AI executive workshop.140 external attendees from more than 75 organizations listen to presentations from executives and engineers from analog devices, Cerberus, Intel, Qualcomm, Tokyo Electron, as well as partner presentations from Advent Test, SAP, Siemens and Teraine. There were a few clear messages.

此外，在第四季度，我們還贊助了一場人工智慧高階主管研討會，來自 75 多個組織的 140 名外部與會者聆聽了來自模擬設備、Cerberus、英特爾、高通、東京電子的高管和工程師的演講，以及來自 Advent Test、SAP、西門子和 Teraine 的合作夥伴的演講​​。有幾個明確的訊息。

First, it is necessary to organize semi-culture data using a semantic model to align data across the manufacturing flow. Second, direct connections to the tools and other enterprise systems are necessary to take actions based on AI. And third, collaboration across the supply chain is necessary.

首先，需要使用語意模型來組織半文化數據，以便在整個製造流程中對齊資料。其次，需要直接連接工具和其他企業系統才能採取基於人工智慧的行動。第三，需要整個供應鏈的協作。

Feedback from the attendees was fantastic. They told us that there was a good focus on tangible applications. They liked the range of speakers and breadth of topics, and the panels provided key insights. Across the semi-culture community, there's an excitement about the impact that AI can have on business.

與會者的回饋非常好。他們告訴我們，他們非常注重實際應用。他們喜歡演講者的多樣性和主題的廣度，小組討論也提供了關鍵的見解。在整個半文化界，人們對人工智慧對商業的影響感到興奮。

We are proud that our event was a nexus for key members of the industry to discuss this important topic. Overall, we were very excited to see growth return to the company in the second half of the year and to experience the customer interest in the products and solutions we are delivering.

我們很自豪我們的活動能夠成為業內主要成員討論這一重要主題的平台。總體而言，我們非常高興看到公司在下半年恢復成長，並感受到客戶對我們提供的產品和解決方案的興趣。

Turning to our view of 2025. As we go into this year, we see an industry that is very much in a similar position as 2024. Customers in advanced logic, high bandwidth memory, and advanced packaging are investing, while other sectors of our customer base have a more cautious outlook.

展望 2025 年。進入今年，我們看到該行業的情況與 2024 年非常相似。先進邏輯、高頻寬記憶體和先進封裝領域的客戶正在進行投資，而我們客戶群的其他領域的前景則更加謹慎。

From a product perspective, we will build upon our accomplishments in 2024. For the eProbe, we will expand the applications for advanced logic, including gate all around, backside power, contact, and via yield loss mechanisms, while also expanding applications for advanced D-RAM. We anticipate being able to ship over four machines.

從產品角度來看，我們將在 2024 年的基礎上再接再厲。對於 eProbe，我們將擴展先進邏輯的應用，包括全環繞閘極、背面電源、接觸和通孔良率損失機制，同時擴展先進 D-RAM 的應用。我們預計能夠運送四台以上的機器。

From a business perspective, not all the shipments will convert to revenue in the year, and timing of the machine purchases could drive some additional luminess quarter to quarter. Like the eProbe sold in Q4, customers expressed to us the desire to buy the machines and then optionally subscribe application, services and software.

從商業角度來看，並不是所有的出貨量都會在一年內轉化為收入，而機器購買的時間可能會帶來每季的額外亮度。就像第四季度銷售的 eProbe 一樣，客戶向我們表達了購買機器然後選擇性地訂閱應用程式、服務和軟體的願望。

Except geo modules including process control, [ML ops], test, and manufacturing analytics, as well as symmetrics connectivity and Sabus manufacturing hub are anticipated to drive most of the bookings this year. While IYR revenue has declined the past few years. This year, we anticipate it recovering as manufacturing volumes from new factories, particularly in Asia, are expected to drive improvements in gainshare.

除了地理模組（包括製程控制、[ML ops]、測試和製造分析）以及對稱連接和 Sabus 製造中心預計將推動今年的大部分預訂。儘管過去幾年國際稻米年的收入有所下降。今年，我們預計它將復甦，因為新工廠（特別是亞洲工廠）的生產量預計將推動獲利份額的提高。

Years ago, our business was mostly dependent on advanced process development at Foundries. Today our business is much more balanced, spread across equipment makers, foundries, IDMs, Fablos, and system companies. It spans advanced logic to high voltage semiconductors, from customers using our systems for analytics of the most advanced packaging to discrete devices.

多年前，我們的業務主要依賴代工廠的先進製程開發。如今，我們的業務更加均衡，遍布設備製造商、代工廠、IDM、Fablo 和系統公司。它涵蓋了先進的邏輯到高壓半導體，從客戶使用我們的系統分析最先進的封裝到分立元件。

So, while the industry growth is projected to be mixed, we anticipate year over year growth, year over year total revenues to grow at a rate approaching 15%, albeit with some potential lumpiness quarter to quarter associated with eProbe sales.

因此，雖然預計行業成長情況好壞參半，但我們預計同比增長、總收入同比增長率將接近 15%，儘管 eProbe 的銷售季度間可能存在一些波動。

I want to thank the customers, employees, contractors, and shareholders that helped the company achieve its success in 2024 and look forward to working with you all in 2025.

我要感謝幫助公司在 2024 年取得成功的客戶、員工、承包商和股東，並期待在 2025 年與大家合作。

I will now turn the call over to Adnan for a more detailed comments on our results. Adnan?

現在我將把電話轉給阿德南，請他對我們的結果做出更詳細的評論。阿德南？

Thank you, John. Good afternoon, everyone. Good to speak with you again today. We are pleased to review the financial results of the full year and the fourth quarter of 2024. As John said, we posted our earnings release and a management report in the investor relations section of our website. We expect to file our annual report on Form 10-k with the SEC by the end of February after our 2024 audit is complete.

謝謝你，約翰。大家下午好。很高興今天再次與您交談。我們很高興回顧 2024 年全年和第四季的財務表現。正如約翰所說，我們在網站的投資者關係部分發布了我們的收益報告和管理報告。我們預計將在 2024 年審計完成後於 2 月底向美國證券交易委員會提交 10-k 表年度報告。

As a result, all financial results described in this call should be considered preliminary and are subject to change to reflect any necessary adjustments or changes in accounting estimates that are identified prior to the time we found our 10-K. Please note that all the financial results we discussed in today's call will be on a non-gap basis, and a reconciliation to gain financials is provided in the materials on our website.

因此，本次電話會議中所述的所有財務結果都應視為初步結果，並且可能會發生變化，以反映我們在編制 10-K 報表之前確定的任何必要的調整或會計估計變更。請注意，我們在今天的電話會議上討論的所有財務結果均以無差距為基礎，並且在我們網站的材料中提供了獲取財務資訊的對帳表。

We are pleased to again report record quarterly and annual total revenues. We finished the year strong with '24 total revenues of $50.1 million. We are pleased that our total revenue for the quarter grew 22% year over year ahead of our long-term growth rate target model.

我們很高興再次報告創紀錄的季度和年度總收入。我們以 5,010 萬美元的總收入強勁結束了這一年。我們很高興看到本季的總營收年增22%，超過了我們的長期成長率目標模型。

For the full year 2024, we generated record total revenues of $179.5 million versus $165.8 million in 2023, an 8% year over year increase where we saw nearly all of the growth during the second half of 2034, which increased 16% over the comparable period of the prior year. Our analytics revenue grew 22% in Q4 over the comparable period of the prior year and 11% on a year to year basis for the full year 2024.

2024 年全年，我們的總收入達到創紀錄的 1.795 億美元，而 2023 年為 1.658 億美元，同比增長 8%，其中幾乎所有的增長都發生在 2034 年下半年，比去年同期增長了 16%。我們的分析收入在第四季度比去年同期增長了 22%，在 2024 年全年同比增長了 11%。

During the fourth quarter, we booked multiple extensive renewals and experienced strong growth in symmetric licenses, driven by increased runtime orders from customers. We were particularly pleased with the momentum of our DFI eProbe systems in the fourth quarter, including, importantly, the successful conversion of an evaluation to a completed sale for a leading edge customer base in Asia.

在第四季度，我們進行了多次大規模續約，並經歷了對稱許可證的強勁增長，這得益於客戶運行時間訂單的增加。我們對第四季度 DFI eProbe 系統的發展勢頭感到特別滿意，其中重要的是，成功將評估轉化為針對亞洲領先客戶群的完成銷售。

This marks three of the major leading edge global semiconductor companies now on the [eProbe] platform and validates the success we believed we would see for the investments we made. We're also pleased with the improvement we saw in our integrated yield ramp revenue for the fourth quarter compared to the prior quarter and the same quarter of the previous year.

這標誌著三家主要的全球領先半導體公司現已加入 [eProbe] 平台，並證實了我們相信我們所進行的投資將取得成功。與上一季和去年同期相比，我們對第四季度綜合收益成長收入的提高感到非常高興。

Overall, for the full year, we are pleased with our revenue growth in spite of the [IIR] revenue decline, which was more than offset by the analytics revenue growth. Our analytics revenue accounted for 96% of the total revenue for the quarter and 94% of the total revenue for the full year. This percentage may vary quarter to quarter, depending on the anticipated increases in gain share [IIR] and product portfolio mix and timing of machine sales, as John mentioned within analytics.

總體而言，就全年而言，儘管 [IIR] 收入有所下降，但我們對收入成長感到滿意，因為分析收入的成長足以彌補這一下降。我們的分析收入佔本季總收入的 96%，佔全年總收入的 94%。正如約翰在分析中提到的那樣，這個百分比可能每個季度都有所不同，取決於預期的收益份額 [IIR] 增長和產品組合組合以及機器銷售時間。

Just as we highlighted for the last few years on our earnings calls regarding full year 2022 and 2023 results, it is worth noting for this year 2024 as well, that our full year analytics revenue for 2024 was more than the total company revenue of the prior year 2023, a noteworthy achievement we felt to repeat for another year in a row.

正如我們在過去幾年的收益電話會議上強調的 2022 年和 2023 年全年業績一樣，值得注意的是，對於 2024 年，我們 2024 年的全年分析收入超過了上一年 2023 年的公司總收入，這是一項值得注意的成就，我們覺得可以連續一年重複這一成就。

For the fourth quarter, our gross margin was 72%, and we reported EPF of $0.25 per share. On a full year basis, our gross margin was 74%, and we reported EPS of $0.84. The full year gross margin of 74% moves us towards our target model gross margin of 75% compared to 73% in the previous year.

第四季度，我們的毛利率為 72%，每股公積金 (EPF) 為 0.25 美元。從全年來看，我們的毛利率為 74%，每股盈餘為 0.84 美元。全年毛利率為 74%，使我們朝 75% 的目標模式毛利率邁進，而前一年的毛利率為 73%。

Despite the fact that gain share, which was very high gross margin, decreased on a year to year basis, we were able to grow gross margins in part due to overall growth, but also driven by better control of our spending.

儘管獲利份額（即很高的毛利率）逐年下降，但我們仍然能夠提高毛利率，部分原因是整體成長，同時也得益於我們對支出的更好控制。

Turning to operating expenses, we invested in R&D to advance the product roadmap and our analytics platform, increasing our R&D spend by 4% on a full year over year basis. Our combined sales and marketing and G&A expenses or SG&A expenses or higher by 16% on a year to year basis, predominantly driven by increased sales and marketing spending to meet increased customer pre-sales activity. On the G&A side, we incurred expenses related to ongoing litigation against the vendor, which we expect to decrease over time.

談到營運費用，我們投資研發來推進產品路線圖和分析平台，使我們的研發支出年增 4%。我們的綜合銷售和行銷費用以及一般行政費用或銷售、一般和行政費用比去年同期增長 16% 或更高，主要原因是為滿足不斷增加的客戶售前活動而增加銷售和行銷支出。在一般及行政費用方面，我們產生了與針對供應商的持續訴訟相關的費用，我們預計這些費用將隨著時間的推移而減少。

For the full year 2024, we reported EPS of $0.84 a share and EPS growth of 15% versus the prior year. During the year, we generated positive operating cash flow of approximately $10 million and spent approximately $18 million on CapEx related to primarily our DFI ecosystems and approximately $7 million on share buybacks. We are pleased with another year of positive operating capital for generation consistent with our history.

我們報告 2024 年全年每股收益為 0.84 美元，較上年增長 15%。在這一年中，我們產生了約 1000 萬美元的正經營現金流，並在主要與我們的 DFI 生態系統相關的資本支出上花費了約 1800 萬美元，並在股票回購上花費了約 700 萬美元。我們很高興看到，發電業務又一年保持正營運資本，這與我們的歷史記錄一致。

Turning to the balance sheet, we ended 2024 with cash and equivalent and short-term investments of approximately $115 million compared to approximately $136 million at the end of 2023, where the decrease was due primarily to the spending that we just discussed.

談到資產負債表，截至 2024 年底，我們的現金、等價物和短期投資約為 1.15 億美元，而 2023 年底約為 1.36 億美元，減少主要是由於我們剛剛討論過的支出。

We are proud of our performance in 2024 against the macro environment, and over the long term we remain committed to our target model we set at our Analyst Day in October 2023 of 20% year over year total company revenue growth rate, 75% gross margin, and 20% operating margin.

我們為 2024 年宏觀環境下的表現感到自豪，從長期來看，我們仍致力於實現我們在 2023 年 10 月分析師日設定的目標模型，即公司總收入同比增長 20%、毛利率 75% 和營業利潤率 20%。

Now turning to our financial outlook for 2025, we look forward to another year of growth. Our outlook for the year reflects both the short-term weakness in the semiconductor industry and the strength of our pipeline, bolstered by the macro trends of distributed manufacturing, energy electrification, and AI, which we expect to drive growth.

現在回顧 2025 年的財務展望，我們期待又一年的成長。我們對今年的展望既反映了半導體產業的短期疲軟，也反映了我們產品線的實力，並受到分散式製造、能源電氣化和人工智慧等宏觀趨勢的推動，我們預計這些趨勢將推動成長。

We are also pleased with the success of the DFI eProbe system, including in particular the sale of the system to another leading edge customer during Q4 '24. Given the customer engagement and activity we're seeing for DFI in the overall market, we expect to ship multiple machines during 2025.

我們也對 DFI eProbe 系統的成功感到高興，特別是在 24 年第四季將該系統出售給另一家領先的客戶。鑑於我們在整個市場中看到的 DFI 客戶參與度和活動，我們預計將在 2025 年出貨多台機器。

As we see increased customer interest in DFI eProbe systems, we look at our total business as composed of one, a strong-based business driven by diverse and growing product portfolio of expensive software, leading edge software systems, and symmetric connectivity connectivity software, and 2.

隨著我們看到客戶對 DFI eProbe 系統的興趣日益增加，我們將整個業務視為由以下部分組成：一是強大的業務，由昂貴軟體、前沿軟體系統和對稱連接軟體的多樣化和不斷增長的產品組合驅動；二是。

As we're just starting to grow the book of business on the eProbe as an equipment sale, we can expect lumpiss quarter over quarter, but on an annual basis, we expect this business to grow as we are entering the adoption phase. To reiterate John's comments and our press release, for the full year 2025, we expect the growth rate of our total revenue to approach 15% on a year over year basis.

由於我們才剛開始擴大 eProbe 的設備銷售業務，因此我們預計季度將比增長幅度更大，但從年度來看，隨著我們進入採用階段，我們預計這項業務將會成長。重申約翰的評論和我們的新聞稿，對於 2025 年全年，我們預計總收入的成長率將接近 15%。

With that, I'll turn the call over to the operator to commence the question and answer question, operator.

說完這些，我將把電話轉給接線生，開始問答環節。

Thank you, Mr. Raza. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝你，拉札先生。（操作員指令）

And our first question comes from Blair Abernethy with Rosenblatt Securities. Your line is open.

我們的第一個問題來自羅森布拉特證券公司的布萊爾‧阿伯內西 (Blair Abernethy)。您的線路已開通。

Thanks. Good evening, gentlemen.

謝謝。先生們，晚上好。

Hey Blair.

嘿，布萊爾。

Hi, John, I wonder if you could just, maybe provide us with a little more color, on the eProbe, just in particular on the pipeline. So you talked about maybe several deals potentially this year, are you looking to add additional new customers this year or these follow on sales? And the other question I had was just around the backlog that came in around 221, I think it was 239 and. In Q3, just, maybe some sense of what's happening in the backlog as well?

你好，約翰，我想知道你是否可以為我們提供更多關於 eProbe 的詳細信息，特別是有關管道的信息。所以您談到了今年可能達成的幾筆交易，您是否希望今年增加更多新客戶或進行後續銷售？我的另一個問題是關於積壓的案件數量，大約有 221 件，我想應該是 239 件。在第三季度，也許您能了解積壓的情況嗎？

Sure, As far as the eProbe, yes, it will be a combination of repeat sales and existing customers as well as new sales and new customers from an application space, as I said in my prepared remarks will be a combination of advanced logic as well as advanced D-RAM. We did some pilot, in Q3 and Q4 on D-RAM with a couple of customers, one in particular, and we anticipate a very -- positive results for D-RAM in this, for the eProbe, and we were able to show some things I think that were quite impressive to the customer base again, the unique capability of the machine is understanding of the design as it looks for yield issues.

當然，就 eProbe 而言，是的，它將是重複銷售和現有客戶以及應用領域的新銷售和新客戶的結合，正如我在準備好的發言中所說的那樣，它將是先進邏輯和先進 D-RAM 的結合。在第三季度和第四季度，我們與幾個客戶（特別是其中一個客戶）一起對 D-RAM 進行了一些試點，我們預計 D-RAM 將為 eProbe 帶來非常積極的結果，我們能夠展示一些我認為再次給客戶群留下深刻印象的東西，該機器的獨特功能是在尋找產量問題時理解設計。

So, as I said in my prepare remarks, we do believe we will ship greater than four machines. How many we convert to revenue this year is a little bit questionable to us. So we're being a little conservative on how we do that in part because as we learn in this first sale, right, when you turn over the title of the machine. As opposed to subscribing it, there was a lot of other paperwork and things we needed to do and requirements that they have when they take title of the machine. So, this change, I think is something we are learning. We learned it for one customer, we participate learning it for others.

因此，正如我在準備好的演講中所說，我們確實相信我們將運送超過四台機器。我們今年有多少可以轉化為收入對我們來說有點不確定。因此，我們在這方面的做法有些保守，部分原因是，正如我們在第一次銷售中所了解到的，當你移交機器的所有權時。與訂閱相反，我們還需要做很多其他文書工作和其他事情，而且他們獲得機器所有權時還有很多要求。所以，我認為這個改變是我們正在學習的東西。我們為一個顧客學習了它，我們也參與為其他顧客學習它。

That gets to your question on backlog. Had these been subscription machines, you would have seen, or, with the way that we would have done it, you would have probably changed the backlog characteristics a little bit. This will create a little bit higher terms percentage of revenue in the year than we've had in the past. So this is kind of the nature of the change. Initially, I think, we're not seeing that much difference in revenue as we build a book of business there. We will have a higher revenue at a higher terms rate. Likely as we look out beyond 2025 with this model shift.

這回答了您關於積壓的問題。如果這些是訂閱機器，你就會看到，或者，按照我們的做法，你可能會稍微改變積壓特徵。這將使我們今年的收入百分比比過去略高一些。這就是變化的本質。最初，我認為，當我們在那裡建立業務時，我們不會看到收入有太大差異。我們將以更高的利率獲得更高的收入。當我們展望 2025 年以後的這個模式轉變時，這種情況很可能會再次發生。

Okay, great, and in terms of what does the pipeline of new customers looking at this I mean is it is it broadening out that you have the capacity to to keep you know starting the sales process with new customers?

好的，太好了，那麼就新客戶管道而言，我的意思是，它是否不斷擴大，您是否有能力繼續了解與新客戶的銷售流程？

Yes, we, like the machine that we shipped. Actually it was, installed in the first quarter of last year that we converted to revenue this year. We have machines that we will ship on a demo basis to customers in this first half of the year that we anticipate ship converting in subsequent quarters potentially in this year and into early next year, and we're basically making sure that as we look across the application space we're getting enough machines and enough different people's hands because if you just kind of think through.

是的，我們喜歡我們運送的機器。事實上，去年第一季安裝的這個設備今年就轉化為了收入。我們的機器將在今年上半年以演示的方式發送給客戶，我們預計這些機器將在今年隨後的幾個季度或明年年初發貨，我們基本上確保當我們縱觀整個應用領域時，我們會獲得足夠多的機器和足夠多的不同人的手，因為如果你仔細想一想。

The business, when you make a transition like that, you want enough customers going on so that it's not when you have a, you're not dependent on anyone, so we are probably. Going more forward in the first half of the year, starting a number of new customer engagements and selling, effectively a small number of machines. That's why we said we said the lumpiness quarter over quarter to set up for the second half of this year and into next year a higher number of customers ongoing with the eProbe than we had.

當你進行這樣的轉型時，你會希望擁有足夠的客戶，這樣你就不會依賴任何人，所以我們很可能就是這樣。今年上半年我們將進一步推進，開始與一些新客戶合作，並有效銷售少量機器。這就是為什麼我們說，季度環比成長將在今年下半年出現，而明年繼續使用 eProbe 的客戶數量將比我們之前的數量更多。

We've learned a lot about this on the you got this manufacturing all the positives that that got us, that got us a customer really seeing what it could do in a manufacturing facility, not in an R&D facility, which then they came back to us in Q4 was an early Q1 with a whole bunch of additional applications for a number of different process technologies that they thought the machine would be suited for, and we thought, okay, we need to figure out how we get e-valves into a lot of people's hands right now. That could be very valuable to us. And so that's what we're doing in this year.

我們在製造方面學到了很多東西，它給我們帶來了很多積極影響，讓客戶真正看到了它在製造工廠而不是研發工廠中能做什麼，然後他們在第四季度回到我們身邊，這是第一季度初期，有很多額外的應用程序適用於他們認為這台機器適合的許多不同的工藝技術，我們認為，好吧，我們需要弄清楚如何讓電門現在到很多人的手中。這對我們來說非常有價值。這就是我們今年要做的事。

Got it. So it sounds like the activity levels have certainly picked up from, earlier a year ago.

知道了。因此聽起來活動水準肯定比一年前有所回升。

Absolutely.

絕對地。

Yeah, okay, great thank you. I'll get back in the queue.

是的，好的，非常感謝。我會回到隊列中。

Thank you. Our next question comes from William Jellison with D.A. Davidson & Company. Your line is open.

謝謝。下一個問題來自 D.A. 的 William Jellison。戴維森公司。您的線路已開通。

Hi, good afternoon and thanks for taking the questions. John, the first one is for you. Over the last few months, I saw PDF, and sometimes yourself specifically be very active on the publication circuit talking about, model ops, and I'm curious, as you sit here today, what has been the receptivity to that product so far and how important is customer adoption of that product to the growth outlook this year?

大家下午好，感謝您回答問題。約翰，第一個是給你的。在過去的幾個月裡，我看到 PDF，有時您自己，特別活躍於出版界，談論模型操作，我很好奇，當您今天坐在這裡時，到目前為止人們對該產品的接受度如何，客戶對該產品的採用對今年的增長前景有多重要？

Yeah, that's a great question. Well, yeah, it's been quite high. We converted customers in 2024 onto model ops. We expect we have a number of pilots ongoing on model ops, the increase in sales and marketing expenses in part due to model ops in part due to other capabilities like guide analytics, which also uses, AI, one of the things I like pointing out to customers, because we measure the data we can see what percentage of the data an engineer actually looks like at. And so when a customer may store 500 terabytes of data, the engineer may only look at the the engineers may only look at 25 or 28 or 30 terabytes, in other words, 5% to 8% of their data.

是的，這是一個很好的問題。嗯，是的，相當高。我們在 2024 年將客戶轉化為模型經營者。我們預計，我們在模型操作方面正在進行大量試點，銷售和行銷費用的增加，部分是由於模型操作，部分是由於其他功能，如指南分析，它也使用人工智慧，這是我喜歡向客戶指出的一件事，因為我們測量數據，我們可以看到工程師實際上在數據的百分比是多少。因此，當客戶儲存 500 TB 的資料時，工程師可能只會查看 25、28 或 30 TB，換句話說，只查看 5% 到 8% 的資料。

So you really, what AI can look at all the data and then make sure the engineers looking at the 5% or 8% that has the real signal. So Moops is for online applications, the offline applications got analytics, both of those things we have a number of pilots ongoing. They will be important to our business in 2025. So, as I said in my prepared remarks, what customers are learning as we've gone and put this in place and done pilots, they need to have all their data properly aligned.

所以你真的知道，人工智慧可以查看所有數據，然後確保工程師查看的是 5% 或 8% 的真實訊號。因此，Moops 適用於線上應用程序，離線應用程式進行分析，我們正在對這兩項進行大量試點。它們對於我們 2025 年的業務來說將至關重要。因此，正如我在準備好的演講中所說的那樣，當我們實施並進行試點時，客戶了解到他們需要正確地對齊所有數據。

So now they're going back and realizing, okay, I wasn't doing a very good job at getting all the meta fields correctly in my systems. One of the speakers at our AI conference talked about that, and you really can't apply AI until you do that. And they're also learning. I need to be able to talk to the other systems, whether that's equipment. And admin test and [Terrainene] talked about that at our user at the AI conference or just the ERP system.

所以現在他們回過頭來意識到，好吧，我並沒有很好地在系統中正確獲取所有元字段。我們人工智慧會議上的一位發言人談到了這一點，如果你不這樣做，你就無法真正應用人工智慧。他們也正在學習。我需要能夠與其他系統對話，無論它們是什麼設備。管理員測試和 [Terrainene] 在 AI 會議上或僅僅是 ERP 系統上與我們的用戶討論了這個問題。

I need to know where that wafer's going to go and be tested at wafer sort or final test. So AI will have direct impact on our business for things like model ops and guide analytics, but it'll also have an indirect impact on the extensity of cloud deployments, the scale of those, also the scale of the test deployments and the scale or the deployment of our Sapiens manufacturing hub and the connection to ERP and MES systems.

我需要知道晶圓要送到哪裡，並在晶圓分類或最終測試中進行測試。因此，人工智慧將對我們的業務產生直接影響，例如模型操作和指南分析，但它也會對雲端部署的廣度、部署的規模、測試部署的規模以及我們的 Sapiens 製造中心的部署規模以及與 ERP 和 MES 系統的連接產生間接影響。

So, there'll be the direct impact on the AI related products and then the indirect impact on the things that customers need to get done in order to apply AI, whether it's ours, or anybody else's and stay tuned. I think you'll see more announcements in in these next couple of quarters on this stuff.

因此，這將對人工智慧相關產品產生直接影響，然後對客戶應用人工智慧所需完成的事情產生間接影響，無論是我們的還是任何其他人的，敬請關注。我認為您將在接下來的幾個季度看到更多關於此內容的公告。

Great, thank you, John. And then on for you, I wanted to ask, it looks like the accounts receivable balance was quite elevated at the end of the quarter, which would have impacted cash flow. Is there any, anything in particular that is hurting collections, on that front?

太好了，謝謝你，約翰。然後我想問一下，看起來本季末的應收帳款餘額相當高，這可能會影響現金流。在這方面，有什麼特別的因素對收藏產生不利影響嗎？

I will, thanks for the question. No, absolutely, fair question. We're actually quite pleased, that was obviously our first stop when we saw that too and it's a matter of timing and billing and, of course the new conversion of the proposal that John talked about as well.

我會的，謝謝你的提問。不，絕對公平地問。我們實際上非常高興，這顯然也是我們看到的第一站，這是一個時間和計費的問題，當然還有約翰談到的提案的新轉換。

And we've actually looked at how far we are into the collections already at the point of this earnings call, and we feel pretty good about the progress we've made, so nothing concerning there and actually, look forward to collecting that, cash and then reporting good numbers with those cash collections

實際上，在這次收益電話會議時，我們已經研究了收款進度，我們對所取得的進展感到非常滿意，因此沒有什麼可擔心的，實際上，我們期待著收回這些現金，然後用這些現金收款報告出好的數字

Great thanks Adnan.

非常感謝 Adnan。

Okay. Thank you. (Operator Instructions)

好的。謝謝。（操作員指令）

Our next question comes from Gus Richard with Northland Capital Markets. Your line is open.

我們的下一個問題來自 Northland Capital Markets 的 Gus Richard。您的線路已開通。

Yes, thanks for letting me ask a few questions. Hey, I just want to understand that, a little bit better the terms of the contract of the sale. There's two elements. There's the applications and software licensing, which is a recurring revenue, and then there's the tools itself and I kind of look at the AR's popping up and I'm just trying to make sure I understand how this deal works and is this going to be the model for DFI sales going forward?

是的，感謝您允許我問幾個問題。嘿，我只是想更了解一下銷售合約的條款。有兩個元素。有應用程式和軟體許可，這是經常性收入，然後是工具本身，我看到 AR 出現了，我只是想確保我理解這筆交易是如何運作的，這是否會成為未來 DFI 銷售的模式？

Yeah, so. It, we will still subscribe the entire systems including the machines for customers that want that. We do have customers that prefer that, but there are customers that want to take title for the machine. And so what we've moved to is the machine title transfers. That's why you said the A and they owe that money upfront. That's the AR balance increase that you saw, and then they subscribed for software and application services. Even support sources on the machine, thereafter, and that is optional to them. They can do that or not, when you look at the machine compared to, a regular EB machine, it does some things very well, but if you want to Scan, if you went to our user conference and stuff where you can take designs and know exactly where to go look in the designs, but the combination with Siemens, the way of being very design aware in the way you expect that's stuff that you would see on as a subsequent software sales sometimes at the same time as the equipment, sometimes it's stuff that comes a quarter or two later.

是啊。我們仍將為需要的客戶訂購包括機器在內的整個系統。我們確實有一些客戶喜歡這樣，但也有一些客戶想要擁有機器的所有權。所以，我們轉向的是機器所有權的轉移。這就是為什麼你說 A 而他們預付了這筆錢。這就是您看到的 AR 餘額增加，然後他們訂閱了軟體和應用服務。此後，甚至可以在機器上支援來源，這對他們來說是可選的。他們可以這樣做也可以不這樣做，當你將這台機器與常規 EB 機器進行比較時，你會發現它在某些方面表現得非常好，但是如果你想要掃描，如果你參加了我們的用戶會議等，你就可以拿著設計圖，確切地知道在設計圖中要去哪裡查看，但是與西門子的結合，以你期望的方式在後續設計的方式，有時會出現在後續

Yeah, and I just kinda want to understand the revenue recognition here, you transfer title, but is it factory accepted? Is -- there any, it's a done deal, but or is there, part of the acceptance still to go?

是的，我只是想了解這裡的收入確認，你轉移所有權，但工廠接受嗎？有沒有，這是一筆已完成的交易，但是，是否還有一部分需要接受？

The acceptance was complete, so the revenue recognized for the machine itself has been done. There's some support portions that are not recognized that will be recognized out over the next year. Some services are.

驗收已完成，機器本身的收入已確認。有些支持部分尚未被承認，但明年將會得到承認。有些服務是。

Got it. And then the next question I have is, there's been management changes at a couple of your key customers, and I'm, and you also talk about, shooting out evals rather than, revenue and machines in the first half, and I'm just wondering if the management change at these couple of companies is sort of having an impact on your ability to close business?

知道了。然後我的下一個問題是，您的幾個主要客戶的管理層發生了變化，而且我和您也談到了上半年的評估而不是收入和機器，我只是想知道這幾家公司的管理層變動是否會對您完成業務的能力產生影響？

Yeah, of course we're always very careful about commenting on any specific customer. I don't know that there's any real impact on leadership changes in the customers. As I said in my prepared remarks though, this is definitely a Dickens period of the best of time and worst of times when we look across our customer base. So we have some customers we've seen pull in and accelerate, we've seen other customers being more cautious, if we've been vetting people at the beginning of the year where we thought we were going to see Q4 come in, we probably would have guessed a different set of customers, then, we looked at Q3 and Q4.

是的，我們當然對對任何特定客戶的評論都非常謹慎。我不知道這對客戶的領導層變動是否會產生任何實際影響。正如我在準備好的演講中所說的那樣，當我們放眼我們的客戶群時，這絕對是狄更斯時代最好的時代和最壞的時代。因此，我們看到一些客戶加入並加速發展，我們也看到其他客戶變得更加謹慎，如果我們在年初對人員進行審查，認為我們將看到第四季度的到來，我們可能會猜測一組不同的客戶，然後，我們專注於第三季度和第四季度。

Q3 and Q4, we saw a stronger participation from our Asian customers on, as I said in my prepared remarks on software and control systems for advanced packaging and logic in the e-pro. We probably had thought that would go a little bit different than it did if we kind of, if you had asked me to be a betting person in February of 2024 versus, with hindsight in 2025. But I think it kind of gets to the point I put in my prepared remarks. We have a business now that is very diverse.

正如我在關於 e-pro 中先進封裝和邏輯的軟體和控制系統的準備好的發言中所說的那樣，在第三季度和第四季度，我們看到亞洲客戶的參與度有所提高。我們可能已經想到，情況會有所不同，如果你讓我在 2024 年 2 月成為博彩人士，而在 2025 年事後看來，情況會有所不同。但我認為它已經切中我在準備好的發言中提出的觀點。我們現在的業務非常多元化。

The percentage of any single customers come down tremendously. The percentage of different parts of the market have come down, right? A year ago I was very excited about the silicon carbide market. Most of our customers in silicon carbide are not doing great, but it really hasn't impacted much of our Extensio business because our customers in advanced packaging picked a lot of that up. So, today, we are rapidly moving to a place where our advanced logic businesses, are going to be in that 40% range, and there I put the characterization in eProbe DFI business.

單一顧客的比例大幅下降。市場不同部分的百分比已經下降了，對嗎？一年前，我對碳化矽市場感到非常興奮。我們的大多數碳化矽客戶的狀況都不太好，但這並沒有對我們的 Extensio 業務產生太大影響，因為我們在先進封裝領域的客戶購買了大量此類產品。因此，今天，我們正在迅速轉向我們的先進邏輯業務，將其比例提升到 40% 左右，我將 eProbe DFI 業務的特性放在了這裡。

About 40%-plus on fabulous IDMs and system companies using, analytics for test product engineering, yield engineering, and then a growing percentage of the equipment category as well as they get more and more, software where you probably saw that. At our conference, we demonstrated on digital twin and analytics AI for equipment and the equipment vendors that spoke at the conference on their excitement there, and that will be a growing piece of our business. But, I don't think we focus too much on leadership change and if you go back to 2014, 2015 when 85% of our revenue was 3 accounts. Yes, I was very concerned about CEO changes at all of our customers today it's just, regular course of business.

大約有 40% 以上的優秀 IDM 和系統公司使用分析來測試產品工程、產量工程，然後設備類別的比例也在不斷增長，並且他們獲得越來越多的軟體，您可能已經看到了這一點。在我們的會議上，我們展示了設備的數位孿生和分析人工智慧，設備供應商在會議上表達了他們的興奮之情，這將成為我們業務的一個成長點。但是，我認為我們不會過多關注領導層的變動，如果回顧 2014 年、2015 年，當時我們 85% 的收入來自 3 個帳戶。是的，我今天非常關心我們所有客戶的執行長變動，這只是正常的業務流程。

Okay, got it. And then, there's clearly a shortage of [coA capacity]. A lot of the OSATs are bringing up what I [callOAli], and at the same time, I'm seeing, the complexity of these triplets, assemblies, getting more so, and I'm just wondering is that Are those the things that are driving the advanced packaging, or are you sort of seeing a flurry of activity over the last couple of quarters because of this?

好的，明白了。然後，顯然缺乏[coA 容量]。許多 OSAT 都提出了我所稱的 [callOAli]，同時，我發現這些三元組、組件的複雜性越來越高，我只是想知道這些是否是推動先進封裝發展的因素，還是因為這個原因，在過去幾個季度看到了一系列活動？

Yeah, so far our business on advanced packaging has been with the most advanced parts of the market, the foundries and IDMs that are really kind of leading the forefront of the most sophisticated. But the point you bring up is exactly what we think is going to be impacting our business as we get out in these next years because when I meet with those leaders, particularly at some of the companies, they really don't want to build out all the capacity. They want to rely more and more on their [OSAT] partners for doing a lot of the parts of that manufacturing flow and test flow that they are really very well skilled at doing dietach, testing, etc. So the manufacturing flow when it gets to scale right now, I think it's bespoke and very targeted to a small number of customers with very important and very high-volume products, but it's not an easy-to-use technology so far for a lot of companies.

是的，到目前為止，我們在先進封裝方面的業務一直與市場上最先進的部分合作，而代工廠和 IDM 確實處於最先進技術的前沿。但您提出的觀點正是我們認為在未來幾年將對我們的業務產生影響的因素，因為當我與這些領導人會面時，特別是一些公司的領導人，他們真的不想建立所有的產能。他們希望越來越多地依賴他們的 [OSAT] 合作夥伴來完成製造流程和測試流程的許多部分，而他們非常擅長進行飲食訓練、測試等。 因此，當製造流程現在達到規模時，我認為它是定制的，並且非常針對少數擁有非常重要和大批量產品的客戶，但到目前為止，對於許多公司來說，這不是一種易於使用的技術。

So as that happens, you're going to see pieces of that flow move out to those companies. We think that's going to have a profound change on how, if you just look at that manufacturing flow. It's a very complex process. It relies on amazing performance and precision out of the equipment, and it's very specific and bespoke to the products, the dye sizes, the mechanical stress, the amount of thinning on the materials, etc. So really the collaboration across those three parts of the market are going to more and more be required, and you know we think that will impact our business in 2025 and '26 as we bring out more dex notes into that part of the market. And the dialogue that we've been having with our equipment customers right now.

當這種情況發生時，您將會看到部分資金流向這些公司。我們認為，如果你看一下製造流程，這將帶來深刻的改變。這是一個非常複雜的過程。它依賴於設備的驚人性能和精度，並且它非常具體，並且針對產品、染料大小、機械應力、材料稀釋量等進行定制。以及我們現在與設備客戶進行的對話。

But so far in the second half of the year, it's been the leaders where they've got tremendous systems, and capability process expertise internally, rely less on the equipment vendors, don't need as much help from their customers. We think going forward you're going to see more and more equipment company participation in that work as it goes to the OSATs and more and more of the customers engaged in the qualification.

但到目前為止，到今年下半年為止，領導者已經擁有了強大的系統和內部能力流程專業知識，較少依賴設備供應商，不需要太多的客戶協助。我們認為，未來您將會看到越來越多的設備公司參與這項工作，因為 OSAT 和越來越多的客戶都會參與資格認證中。

Got it. And then just last one for me. I apologize for so many questions on HBMD RAM and the complexity there, are you starting to penetrate those accounts for with Extensio and back end applications.

知道了。這對我來說只剩下最後一個了。我很抱歉關於 HBMD RAM 及其複雜性有這麼多問題，您是否開始使用 Extensio 和後端應用程式滲透這些帳戶？

Yeah, that's a great question because we have historically not made a lot of effort on the software side in that, in the memory area. What was really a positive for me, in August, an executive asked their team to quickly send us wafers for the eProbe, and within a month, no changes to the system. The team was able to show them what you could do with the eProbe on the process technologies that go into HBM, particularly on the silicon processing, very advanced, front-end processing, wafer processing.

是的，這是一個很好的問題，因為我們過去並沒有在軟體方面，也就是記憶體領域做出太多的努力。對我來說真正積極的一點是，8 月份，一位高管要求他們的團隊迅速向我們發送 eProbe 的晶圓，並且在一個月內，系統沒有任何變化。團隊向他們展示如何使用 eProbe 在 HBM 的製程技術上進行操作，特別是在矽片處理、非常先進的前端處理和晶圓處理方面。

And that kicked off a whole flurry of work in the 4th quarter, which is why, in my prepared remarks I talked about DRAM. It is very much related to the HBM work, but it's primarily on the silicon processing so far and primarily on the eProbe.

這在第四季度引發了一系列工作，這就是為什麼我在準備好的演講中談到了 DRAM。它與 HBM 工作非常相關，但到目前為止它主要涉及矽處理，並且主要涉及 eProbe。

It's reintroducing us to those that part of the market that we had began with you had, neglected for many years. And so now we're starting to see, opportunities beyond the eProbe into [Accentso] and other things that probably we were a little bit tone deaf to be candid with you, because a lot of our Accenture business is really with fabulous and system companies and IBMs that are basically asset-like manufacturers really, even for them, most of the silicon analyze and [Accentsi] is coming out of foundries.

它使我們重新接觸到與您一起開創的、多年來一直被忽視的市場。所以現在我們開始看到，除了 eProbe 之外，還有 [Accentso] 和其他領域的機遇，我們可能有點不方便坦白地告訴你，因為我們與埃森哲的很多業務實際上都是與優秀的系統公司和 IBM 合作，它們基本上是類似資產的製造商，甚至對他們來說，大多數矽片分析和 [Accentsi] 都來自代工廠。

So this is kind -- the eProbe work has kind of introduced us to that part of the market and we will explore that as we get into 2025. But, right now in our anticipation of our outlook for '25 and '26 when it comes to memory, it's primarily because of the eProbe.

所以這有點像是——eProbe 的工作向我們介紹了這個市場的一部分，我們將在 2025 年時對其進行探索。但是，目前我們對 25 年和 26 年記憶體前景的預測主要歸功於 eProbe。

Got it, very helpful, appreciate it, let me pass it on.

明白了，非常有幫助，非常感謝，讓我傳達一下。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) At this time, there are no more questions, ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the program.

謝謝。(操作員指示) 女士們、先生們，現在，沒有其他問題了，節目到此結束。

Thank you for joining us on today's call. Good day.

感謝您參加今天的電話會議。再會。