PDF Solutions Inc (PDFS) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone and welcome to the PDF Solutions Inc conference call to discuss its financial results for the Q3 conference call ending Monday, September 30th 2024. (Operator Instructions) Some of the statements that will be made in the course of this conference are forward-looking statements including statements regarding PDF future PDF Financial results and performance growth rates and demand for its solutions.

大家好，歡迎參加 PDF Solutions Inc 電話會議，討論截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日星期一的第三季電話會議的財務業績。（操作員說明） 本次會議期間將發表的一些聲明屬於前瞻性聲明，包括有關 PDF 未來 PDF 財務業績和業績增長率以及對其解決方案的需求的聲明。

PDF actual results could differ materially. You should refer to the section entitled Risk Factors on pages 16 through 36 of PDF annual report on form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31st, 2023, and similar disclosures in subsequent SEC filings.

PDF 的實際結果可能存在重大差異。您應參閱截至 2023 年 12 月 31 日的財政年度 PDF 表格 10-K 年度報告第 16 至 36 頁標題為「風險因素」的部分，以及後續 SEC 文件中的類似揭露。

The forward-looking statements and risks stated in this conference call are based on information available to PDF today. PDF assumes no obligation to update them. Now, I'd like to introduce John Kibarian PDF President and Chief Executive Officer and Adnan Raza PDF Chief Financial Officer, Mr Kibarian . Please go ahead.

本次電話會議中所述的前瞻性陳述和風險是基於 PDF 今天掌握的資訊。PDF 不承擔更新它們的義務。現在，我想介紹 John Kibarian PDF 總裁兼執行長和 Adnan Raza PDF 財務長 Kibarian 先生。請繼續。

Thank you for joining us on today's call. If you've not already seen our earnings press release and management report for the Q3, please go to the investor section of our website where each has been posted before Adnan discusses the financials in detail.

感謝您參加今天的電話會議。如果您還沒有看到我們第三季的收益新聞稿和管理報告，請造訪我們網站的投資者部分，在阿德南詳細討論財務數據之前，這些報告已發布。

I have some comments to make about our observations from the Q3. Our view of the market and our business prospects for the remainder of the year. Bookings for the Q3 were driven by customers continuing to buy Exensio and symmetric connectivity software Exensio sales include a large cloud customer renewing at a 50% increase in annual revenue due to the continued growth in usage as well as a number of customers deploying Exensio for process control, advanced logic, advanced packaging and high voltage semiconductor manufacturing fabs drove the increase in process control licenses.

我對第三季的觀察結果有一些評論。我們對今年剩餘時間的市場和業務前景的看法。第三季的預訂是由客戶繼續購買 Exensio 和對稱連接軟體 Exensio 的銷售推動的，其中包括由於使用量持續增長而導致年收入增長 50% 的大型雲端客戶續訂，以及許多客戶部署 Exensio 進行流程控制、先進邏輯、先進封裝和高壓半導體製造工廠推動了製程控制許可證的增加。

This is consistent with our perspective of where investments are being made in the industry. Improvements in equipment runtime licenses of symmetric connectivity was relatively broad based. Our integrated yield ramp business was weak in Q3 as wafer volumes were low and new contracts were slower to sign.

這與我們對該產業投資方向的看法是一致的。對稱連接的設備運行時許可證的改進基礎相對廣泛。由於晶圓產量較低且新合約簽署較慢，我們的綜合良率提升業務在第三季表現疲軟。

We believe that both situations will likely improve over the next few quarters. Turning to design for inspection execution during the quarter. I am pleased to report continued great results. The eProbe manufacturing evaluation at our second customer is proceeding well, the customer and PDF team believe that the evaluation can be completed ahead of schedule.

我們相信，這兩種情況可能會在未來幾季得到改善。轉向本季檢查執行的設計。我很高興地報告持續取得的巨大成果。我們第二家客戶的 eProbe 製造評估進展順利，客戶和 PDF 團隊相信評估可以提前完成。

This speaks the unique capabilities of the solution and the robustness of a hardware deployment. Utilization at our initial customer for eProbe direct scan where two machines in place remains high. While exact timing is always a challenge to predict, we anticipate both customers impacting our bookings over the next quarters.

這說明了此解決方案的獨特功能和硬體部署的穩健性。我們最初的客戶使用兩台機器進行 eProbe 直接掃描的使用率仍然很高。雖然準確的時間始終難以預測，但我們預計這兩位客戶都會影響我們未來幾季的預訂。

As our confidence in eProbe value and logic increased, we began exploring applications in memory R&D and production in Q3 evaluations of the advantages of direct scan on memory was very promising with the custom reporting that sensitivity and throughput advantages were over 10 times superior than conventional methods.

隨著我們對eProbe 價值和邏輯的信心增強，我們在第三季度開始探索在內存研發和生產中的應用。方法優越10 倍以上。

The impending completion of the manufacturing evaluation continued application development at our lead customer and new applications in memory increase our confidence in the DFI pro business as evidenced by our ramping capital spending this year, we anticipate the pro being a driver of revenue growth in Q4 and having a meaningful positive impact on our 2025 and beyond.

製造評估即將完成，我們的主要客戶的持續應用程式開發和記憶體中的新應用程式增強了我們對DFI Pro 業務的信心，今年我們不斷增加的資本支出證明了這一點，我們預計Pro 將成為第四季度營收成長的驅動力對我們的 2025 年及以後產生有意義的正面影響。

Now, a few comments on our view of the environment and our perspective on the fourth quarter and beyond, as we talk with customers about their business, some are experiencing weakness while others are growing consistent with our view last quarter.

現在，當我們與客戶談論他們的業務時，我們對環境的看法以及我們對第四季度及以後的看法發表了一些評論，有些人正在經歷疲軟，而另一些人正在成長，這與我們上季度的觀點一致。

We believe our business will be driven by fabs developing advanced logic processes such as two nanometer fab customers, deploying advanced test control software often with AI to augment conventional test methodologies and companies engaged in digital transformation attempting to leverage data whether that is IDMs, fabless foundries or large equipment companies.

我們相信，我們的業務將由開發先進邏輯製程的晶圓廠（例如兩個奈米晶圓廠客戶）、通常與人工智慧一起部署先進測試控制軟體以增強傳統測試方法以及從事數位轉型的公司（無論是IDM、無晶圓廠代工廠）來推動，這些公司試圖利用數據或大型設備公司。

So while we anticipate an industry where there will not be a rising tide lifting all boats, we believe we can extend the momentum. We've begun in Q3 for continued growth in Q4. And while it's too early to comment on specific numbers for 2025 we expect robust growth. Then also, I do want to remind folks about our one day AI executive workshop in San Francisco on December 12th, which is the day after the I Triple Eiedm conference.

因此，雖然我們預計這個行業不會出現水漲船高的局面，但我們相信我們可以延續這一勢頭。我們從第三季開始，第四季繼續成長。雖然現在評論 2025 年的具體數字還為時過早，但我們預計將出現強勁增長。另外，我確實想提醒大家注意我們 12 月 12 日在舊金山舉行的為期一天的人工智慧高階主管研討會，即 I Triple Eiedm 會議的第二天。

We are bringing together a great collection of customers, industry experts and PDF folks to talk about the advances in the application of AI for Semiconductor manufacturing driven in part by our new model ops, data analytics and our extensive analytics platform.

我們聚集了許多客戶、產業專家和 PDF 人員，討論半導體製造領域的人工智慧應用進步，部分原因是我們的新模型操作、數據分析和廣泛的分析平台所推動的。

I invite you all to attend. I want to thank all of the PDF employees and contractors for their efforts during the year. Let's have a great Q4 so we can deliver another record year. Now, I'll turn the call over to Adnan who will review the financials and provide his perspective on the results.

我邀請大家參加。我要感謝所有 PDF 員工和承包商在這一年中所做的努力。讓我們度過一個美好的第四季度，這樣我們就可以再創紀錄的一年。現在，我將把電話轉給阿德南，他將審查財務狀況並提供他對結果的看法。

Thank you, John. Good afternoon, everyone. Good to speak with you all again. Today, we're pleased to review the financial results of theQ3 and to bring you up to date on the progress of the business.

謝謝你，約翰。大家下午好。很高興能再次與大家交談。今天，我們很高興回顧第三季的財務業績，並向您介紹最新的業務進展。

We posted our earnings release and management report on the investor relations section of our website. Our form 10-Q has also been filed with the SEC today. Please note that all of the financial results we discuss in today's call will be on a non-GAAP basis and a reconciliation to GAAP Financials is provided on the materials on our website financial results for the Q3 of 2024 came in strong.

我們在網站的投資者關係部分發布了收益發布和管理報告。我們的 10-Q 表格今天也已提交給 SEC。請注意，我們在今天的電話會議中討論的所有財務業績都將基於非 GAAP 基礎，並且我們網站上的材料提供了 GAAP 財務數據的調節表，2024 年第三季度的財務業績表現強勁。

Our bookings for the nine months of 2024 have now exceeded our bookings for the full year of 2023. We ended the quarter with a backlog of approximately $240 million essentially flat from last quarter, even with the record revenues delivered this quarter.

我們 2024 年 9 個月的預訂量現已超過 2023 年全年的預訂量。本季結束時，我們的積壓訂單約為 2.4 億美元，與上季基本持平，儘管本季交付的營收創歷史新高。

Our total revenue for Q3 came in at $46.4 million which is 11% higher versus the prior quarter of this year and 10% higher versus the same quarter of last year. We're pleased with this strong performance and total revenues. In spite of the decline in integrated yield ramp revenue, our analytics revenue came in at $44.8 million which was 17% higher versus the prior quarter and 13% higher versus the same quarter of last year.

我們第三季的總營收為 4,640 萬美元，比今年上一季成長 11%，比去年同期成長 10%。我們對如此強勁的業績和總收入感到滿意。儘管綜合良率成長收入下降，但我們的分析收入達到 4,480 萬美元，比上一季成長 17%，比去年同期成長 13%。

Analytics comprised 96% of revenue for the quarter. The strength in analytics revenue. This quarter compared to last quarter was driven by all elements of our analytics platform. As John said, we're pleased with the level of engagement with our analytics customers. One example of which was a multiyear eight figure renewal where we were able to increase the annual spend rate by approximately 50% primarily driven by increased usage and licenses.

分析佔該季度營收的 96%。分析收入的實力。與上季相比，本季是由我們分析平台的所有要素推動的。正如約翰所說，我們對與分析客戶的互動程度感到滿意。其中一個例子是多年八位數的續約，我們能夠將年支出率提高約 50%，這主要是由於使用量和許可證的增加。

The customer is deploying as more people inside their organization rely on Exensio for yield analytics and manufacturing improvements for our symmetric connectivity products. We saw a slight improvement in runtime licenses during Q3 compared to the prior quarter with strong year over year growth integrated yield wrap revenue was 4% of total revenues in Q3 and was lower by 1.9 million compared to the prior quarter and 1.2 million compared to the same quarter of the prior year overall.

隨著組織內越來越多的人依賴 Exensio 來進行對稱連接產品的產量分析和製造改進，客戶正在進行部署。我們看到第三季運行時許可證與上一季相比略有改善，年成長強勁，綜合收益包裝收入佔第三季總收入的4%，比上一季減少190 萬個，比上個季度減少120 萬個。

We are pleased with the growth rate we delivered for analytics total revenues for the quarter and continued engagements with our customers across our analytics platform on gross margins. We reported an unusually strong 77% gross margin for Q3 which benefited from one-time perpetual software license deals during the quarter.

我們對本季分析總收入的成長率以及透過我們的分析平台與客戶在毛利率方面的持續合作感到滿意。我們報告稱，第三季的毛利率異常強勁，高達 77%，這得益於本季的一次性永久軟體授權交易。

While we're pleased with this result for the next quarter, we expect gross margin to revert towards what we have been seeing during first half of this year driven by a shift in the mix of our product offerings as announced at our analyst day in October, we remain committed to our long-term gross margin target of 75% and making progress towards that.

雖然我們對下一季的結果感到滿意，但我們預計毛利率將恢復到今年上半年的水平，這是由於我們在 10 月的分析師日宣布的產品組合的變化所致，我們仍然致力於實現75% 的長期毛利率目標，並為此持續取得進展。

Over the coming quarters, our operating expenses in Q3 grew compared to the prior quarter, primarily due to increased investments in sales and marketing and R&D to support our future growth on EPS. We were able to deliver $0.25 per share for the quarter, our strongest quarter for the year turning to the balance sheet, we ended the quarter with cash equivalents and short term investments of approximately $120 million incrementally higher compared to the prior quarter ending cash balance of approximately $118 million.

在接下來的幾個季度中，我們第三季的營運費用較上一季有所成長，主要是由於增加了對銷售、行銷和研發的投資，以支持我們未來每股收益的成長。我們本季每股收益為0.25 美元，這是我們今年表現最強勁的一個季度。末的現金餘額逐步增加。

This quarter, we used a portion of our positive operating cash flow for investments in the pro tool as well as investment in a private company where we see opportunities to partner for the benefit of our leading edge enterprise customers.

本季度，我們將部分正營運現金流用於投資專業工具以及對一家私人公司的投資，我們看到了為領先企業客戶的利益而合作的機會。

After achieving year over year revenue growth for the Q3 of 10% for total revenues and 13% for analytics revenue. We expect year over year total revenues in Q4 to grow in line with our long-term revenue growth target of 20%. We are also thankful to our customers and partners for supporting the growth uplift. We delivered this quarter and look forward to growing sequentially in Q4. With that, we'll turn the call over to the operator to commence the Q&A session operator.

第三季總營收年增 10%，分析營收年增 13%。我們預計第四季總營收年增將符合我們 20% 的長期營收成長目標。我們也感謝我們的客戶和合作夥伴對成長的支持。我們本季交付了產品，並期待第四季度繼續成長。這樣，我們會將通話轉交給接線員以開始問答會話接線員。

Thank you Mr. Raza and Ladies and gentlemen, (Operator Instructions) our first question is from Blair Abernethy with Rosenblatt Securities. Please proceed.

謝謝拉札先生和女士們先生們，（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自羅森布拉特證券公司的布萊爾‧阿伯內西。請繼續。

hi guys. Nice quarter. Good to see the growth coming back there. I just wanted to ask a couple of questions John just on the DFI. Can you just we've talked about customer number one and number two. What are you seeing out there in terms of a pipeline of opportunity beyond first couple of customers there?

嗨，大家好。不錯的季度。很高興看到那裡的成長回來了。我只是想問約翰幾個關於 DFI 的問題。我們已經討論過一號客戶和二號客戶了嗎？除了第一批客戶之外，您認為還有哪些機會管道？

Sure, that's a great question. Thank you. Blair. So, as we have also a third customer that is part of an overall integrated package. So that that subscription includes extensive vehicles and many other assistances. I didn't talk about that customer this quarter, but we do expect that customer proceed for the my prepared comments. I also talked about memory application.

當然，這是一個很好的問題。謝謝。布萊爾。因此，我們還有第三個客戶，它是整個整合包的一部分。因此，該訂閱包括大量車輛和許多其他幫助。本季我沒有談論該客戶，但我們確實希望客戶繼續聽取我準備好的評論。我還講了記憶體的應用。

And we have a seen really great result there. We do see that as another growth factor for the systems. And when we look back at logic, as I said in my prepared remarks, with both of the first two customers, we continue to see more and more applications, more and more types of problems as the customers develop more 3D processes.

我們在那裡看到了非常好的結果。我們確實認為這是系統的另一個成長因素。當我們回顧邏輯時，正如我在準備好的發言中所說，對於前兩個客戶，隨著客戶開發更多的3D 流程，我們繼續看到越來越多的應用程式、越來越多類型的問題。

So, gate all around is 3D contacts and views of 3D backside power is 3D. So more and more of these of these new features they're bringing out on advanced process. Notes depend on 3D integration and 3D yield problems. And so, the machine is uniquely capable of looking at 3D on product and understanding exactly where it is in the product.

因此，周圍的閘極是 3D 接點，3D 背面電源的視圖也是 3D。因此，他們在先進製程上推出了越來越多的新功能。註釋取決於 3D 整合和 3D 成品率問題。因此，該機器具有獨特的能力，可以查看產品的 3D 並準確地了解它在產品中的位置。

And also, being able to make sure it only excites the elements of the product that person wants to excite to capture the correct value mechanism. That's really a lot of where the unique capability is. So, we expect more applications within logic and now we're starting to see applications within memory.

而且，能夠確保它只激發人們想要激發的產品元素，以捕獲正確的價值機制。這確實是很多獨特功能的地方。因此，我們期望邏輯中出現更多應用程序，現在我們開始看到記憶體中的應用程式。

Okay, great. Thank you. And, and that just on CapEx year-to-date looks like around $12 million. up a lot from you last year, double year before. So, what should we be thinking about in terms of CapEx levels going forward?

好的，太好了。謝謝。而且，光是今年迄今的資本支出就約為 1200 萬美元。比你去年、前兩年進步了很多。那麼，就未來的資本支出水準而言，我們應該考慮什麼？

I think I've learned how to connect with you. I think we're feeling pretty good about the progress that DFI platform and the eProbe engagements have had obviously having a few machines with one customer, another one with another customer and the evaluation that's going on with the third one. And then John alluding to these memory applications being positive.

我想我已經學會如何與你聯繫。我認為我們對 DFI 平台和 eProbe 合作所取得的進展感覺非常好，顯然，一個客戶擁有幾台機器，另一個客戶擁有另一台機器，以及第三台機器正在進行的評估。然後約翰暗示這些記憶應用是正面的。

All give us confidence to start to think about. Okay, if we had to serve the needs of these customers, where should our order and the pipeline be? Obviously, we're going to be careful in terms of looking at what are the longer lead times versus the shorter ones as we have talked to you before.

一切都讓我們有信心開始思考。好吧，如果我們必須滿足這些客戶的需求，我們的訂單和管道應該在哪裡？顯然，正如我們之前與您討論過的那樣，我們將謹慎考慮較長的交貨時間和較短的交貨時間。

But we see, we see increased levels of CapEx and we started to see some of that translate into revenue and we're seeing this quarter and growth and we hope to continue that trend. So, I think on the CapEx side, you should see some increased level from us even from where we are today.

但我們看到，我們看到資本支出水準增加，我們開始看到其中一些轉化為收入，我們看到本季的成長，我們希望繼續這種趨勢。因此，我認為在資本支出方面，即使從我們今天的情況來看，您也應該看到我們的水平有所提高。

Okay. Great. And just one last one just for it to jump back in the queue that the [ SG&A] step up in Q3 here from the first half of the year is that you should be thinking about that as a kind of a new level or are there some one time item in there?

好的。偉大的。最後一個只是為了讓它跳回到隊列中，[SG&A] 從今年上半年開始在第三季度加強，你應該將其視為一種新水平，或者是否有一些那裡有一次性物品？

Yeah, there's t this I mean most of the increase, almost all of the increase is on the sales and marketing side. GNA, we're careful about managing it and of course, we report as a combined [SDNA] level, but on [S&M], I think you'll see incremental expense if anything we're focused on the kind of trying to maximize the [S&M] spend that we have and making the best out of that our investments in the future in the next, quarter or so that we're thinking about internally are probably more on the R&D side than on the [SDNA] side.

是的，我的意思是大部分成長，幾乎所有成長都來自銷售和行銷方面。GNA，我們在管理它時非常謹慎，當然，我們報告為綜合 [SDNA] 水平，但在 [S&M] 上，我認為如果我們專注於試圖最大化的任何事情，您會看到增量費用我們內部考慮的[S&M] 支出以及在未來的下一個季度左右充分利用我們的投資可能更多是在研發方面，而不是在[SDNA] 方面。

Okay, great. Thank you.

好的，太好了。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Our next question is from the line of Gus Richard with Northland capital markets. Please proceed.

我們的下一個問題來自 Gus Richard 與北國資本市場的關係。請繼續。

Yes, thanks for taking the questions and congratulations on the good result. Could you talk a little bit about that perpetual license deal that you had in the quarter? I'm assuming that's a onetime thing.it looks like, it grow incremental growth margin at like 98% and I'm just trying to reconcile those two things.

是的，感謝您提出問題並祝賀取得的好成績。您能談談您在本季簽訂的永久授權協議嗎？我假設這是一次性的事情。

Sure, I guess, is a set of my prepared remarks. Actually, the largest bookings in the quarter were related to a cloud renewals and new cloud total cloud deals, but they don't drive very much incremental revenue in the quarter. We have some customers that have legacy contracts on process control typically because they will buy that on a perpetual basis with capital purchases typically and that drove incrementally more perpetual license revenue in this quarter.

當然，我想，這是我準備好的一組言論。實際上，本季最大的預訂量與雲端續訂和新的雲端總雲交易有關，但它們並沒有為本季帶來太多增量收入。我們的一些客戶通常擁有有關流程控制的遺留合同，因為他們通常會通過資本購買來永久購買該合同，這在本季度推動了永久許可證收入的不斷增長。

That's something that we've known about for quite a while. There's a couple of customers out there that have legacy contracts on this stuff, and they tend to be they buy those in link with their capital or build out. This is related to advanced logic and advanced packaging. because you need more process control and advanced packaging, and it did drive the gross margin improvement in the corner.

這是我們已經知道有一段時間的事情了。有一些客戶在這些東西上有遺留合同，他們往往會購買與其資本相關的合約或進行擴建。這與先進的邏輯和先進的封裝有關。因為你需要更多的流程控制和先進的封裝，這確實推動了毛利率的提高。

So, as you said, it's, basically a very high percent legacy customers with no support, not a lot of legacy, handholding, it's pretty much just license revenue, most of the one-time licenses on symmetric, it's basically all so.

所以，正如你所說，基本上是非常高比例的傳統客戶沒有支持，沒有很多傳統，手持，它幾乎只是許可證收入，大多數一次性許可證都是對稱的，基本上都是如此。

Worth it. Got it. And so, you've got, pretty decent sequential growth. just given the 20% year on year you talk about, what's, that perpetual license? I don't expect to repeat and I'm just wondering if you give a little color on sort of what's filling the GAAP in the fourth quarter in terms of the increase in revenue, is it [IYR] coming back? Is it, starting to recognize some? Yeah.

值得。知道了。所以，你已經獲得了相當不錯的連續成長。考慮到您所說的同比 20%，永久許可證是什麼？我不希望重複，我只是想知道您是否對第四季度的 GAAP 收入成長方面的內容進行了一些說明，[IYR] 是否回來了？是嗎，開始認出一些了？是的。

So I think there's a three factor there for, as you look in the Q4, number one, there is, as I said in my prepared remarks, we do expect improvement in the [IYR] primarily directly to customer contracts a little bit on the improvement on the, on the way for fees from what we see reported from the customers. Number two.

因此，我認為有三個因素，正如您在第四季度中看到的那樣，第一，正如我在準備好的發言中所說，我們確實預計[IYR] 會有所改善，主要是直接針對客戶合約從我們從客戶看到的報告來看，收費方式有所改善。第二。

We do expect probably the bigger piece, DFI, as I said, in my prepared remarks, customer completing, earlier than we expected. The, our, they anticipated the, evaluation as she has met all the criteria soon, sooner than expected. And then, number three, as I said earlier, right, the largest bookings were really actually related to cloud and that tends to have a longer tail impact and over the next few quarters that will contribute, but it didn't do very much in Q3 but nothing.

正如我在準備好的演講中所說，我們確實預計 DFI 可能會比我們預期的更早完成更大的部分。我們的，他們預料到了評估，因為她很快就達到了所有標準，比預期的要早。然後，第三，正如我之前所說，最大的預訂實際上與雲端有關，這往往會產生更長的尾部影響，並且在接下來的幾個季度中將做出貢獻，但它在Q3 但什麼也沒有。

So those three drivers will, basically build out in Q4 and beyond. We do expect some modest improvement in run time licenses on the symmetric side as well. From what we see in customers, runtime licenses were, as Adnan said, a very significantly year over year and seem to be building as we go through the year. That's less of a driver though, in terms of total dollars.

因此，這三個驅動因素基本上將在第四季度及以後建立。我們確實預期對稱方面的運行時許可證也會有一些適度的改進。從我們在客戶中看到的情況來看，正如阿德南所說，運行時許可證逐年增長非常顯著，並且似乎隨著我們這一年的發展而不斷增加。但就總美元而言，這並不是一個驅動因素。

Got it that's helpful. And I, and this is going to, well, let me start with the easiest way to look at this, have you sized the voltage contrast market and given eProbe, how much do you think it expands that market as that comes into production where they could use in fab and how much do you think, memory, the potential of memory adding to the applications sort of expand the market opportunity for any sizing can give would be helpful.

明白了，很有幫助。我，這將是，好吧，讓我從最簡單的方法開始看這個問題，您是否已經確定了電壓對比市場的規模，並考慮到eProbe，您認為當eProbe 投入生產時，它會在多大程度上擴展該市場？

Sure. Yeah, I mean, I think, you can go and look at reports but I mean, the e-beam inspection business has been, I don't know, over north of a half a billion dollars, like the number, I'm not clear in my head right now. But I think when you talk to folks, everyone expects it to grow when I was meeting with a customer recently, they say with more 3D problems, even [dream] is going 3D if you look at it these days, voltage contrast increasingly becomes important relative to see in line what's going on with the products.

當然。是的，我的意思是，我想，你可以去看看報告，但我的意思是，電子束檢查業務已經，我不知道，超過了五億美元，就像這個數字一樣，我是我現在腦子裡不太清楚。但我認為，當你與人們交談時，每個人都期望它會增長，當我最近與客戶會面時，他們說有更多的3D 問題，如果你現在看的話，甚至[夢想] 正在走向3D，電壓對比度變得越來越重要相對於查看產品的情況。

So we expect that, the e-beam and voltage contrast in particular business on the inspection side to outgrow the overall inspection market. And when I speak with even folks that other people that have other product in the market and the executive team to see the say the same thing. So, I think everyone expects that number to grow pretty substantially faster than the rest of the market. And the part of e-beam that we think is most valuable is that voltage contrast because of the 3Dnature of defects. There are also applications that are growing that are related to imaging.

因此，我們預計，檢查方面的電子束和電壓對比度特定業務將超過整體檢查市場。當我與其他人交談時，甚至在市場上擁有其他產品的其他人以及看到該產品的執行團隊也說了同樣的話。因此，我認為每個人都預期這個數字的成長速度將遠遠快於市場其他部分。我們認為電子束最有價值的部分是由於缺陷的 3D 性質而產生的電壓對比。與成像相關的應用也在不斷增長。

Historically, the biggest piece of e-beam business has actually been memory, not logic. And we started with logic, I think in part because of the complexity of being able to navigate around product and all of the software PDF had that made inspecting product possible at high, at high throughputs. the all the software we have around simulating and similarly voltage contrast and actually knowing how to direct the machine where exactly to look, we call that point scan.

從歷史上看，電子束業務的最大部分實際上是內存，而不是邏輯。我們從邏輯開始，我認為部分原因是產品導航的複雜性，以及 PDF 所擁有的所有軟體使得高吞吐量檢查產品成為可能。我們擁有的所有軟體都圍繞著模擬和類似的電壓對比度以及實際上知道如何引導機器準確查看的位置進行，我們稱之為點掃描。

So, we had started in logic, but ultimately the market in memory will be probably very significant over time, which one is larger I think that's hard to say because looking backwards, it's a joke, you can only collect the dots if you look backwards.

所以，我們是從邏輯上開始的，但最終隨著時間的推移，內存市場可能會非常重要，哪個更大我認為這很難說，因為回顧過去，這是一個笑話，如果你回顧過去，你只能收集點。

I think you miss where the world is going, right? So, the future of logic will be things like backside power and CFAS and all these things are three-dimensional issues. So, the need for voltage contrast and logic we think will go up at the same time, your memory is also going 3D. And so, the need there will also increase. So overall, we think, e-beam will be well over a billion-dollar inspection market.

我想你想念這個世界的發展方向，對嗎？所以，邏輯的未來將是諸如背面電源和 CFAS 之類的東西，所有這些都是三維問題。因此，我們認為對電壓對比和邏輯的需求將會同時增加，你的記憶也會走向 3D。因此，那裡的需求也會增加。因此，總的來說，我們認為電子束檢查市場將遠遠超過十億美元。

The piece of voltage contrast we expect to be the largest piece of it. And the fraction that what we're saying today by saying that the eros application both in memory and logic. We don't really have to worry about which of those two is bigger we actually span, basically both and market applications.

我們預計電壓對比部分是其中最大的部分。我們今天所說的一小部分是愛欲在記憶和邏輯上的應用。我們實際上不必擔心這兩者中哪一個更大，我們實際上涵蓋的範圍基本上都是市場應用。

Got it. Thanks. Super helpful.

知道了。謝謝。超有幫助。

Operator. Another question.

操作員。另一個問題。

Yes, (Operator Instructions)

是的，（操作員說明）

One moment for our next question. We have a follow up from the line of Blair Abernethy from Rosenblatt Securities.

請稍等一下我們的下一個問題。我們收到了來自羅森布拉特證券公司 (Rosenblatt Securities) 的布萊爾·阿伯內西 (Blair Abernethy) 的後續報導。

Oh, hi. I just wanted to drill in a bit more John on the macro environment. Just sort of where you're seeing things tracking and we're covering in the last quarter. And I would say also, specifically, what are you guys seeing in the, in the China market? It was, it's, it's down sort of fairly significantly for you guys from a year ago and prior and just kind of want to see how are you feeling with that, that end market?

哦，嗨。我只是想深入了解約翰關於宏觀環境的知識。這就是您所看到的情況追蹤情況，我們將在上個季度進行介紹。我還想說，具體來說，你們在中國市場看到了什麼？對你們來說，與一年前和之前相比，它是相當顯著的下降，只是想看看你們對此終端市場的感受如何？

Yeah, that's so in general, as I said, in my prepared marks, we just see it's a mixed bag. So if you look at our what drove our revenue this quarter, it was clearly advanced packaging, advanced logic, some high voltage semiconductors and equipment going into those broad more broadly, but we did see an awful lot of back end equipment.

是的，總的來說，正如我所說，在我準備好的標記中，我們只是看到它是一個混合包。因此，如果你看看我們本季收入的推動因素，顯然是先進的封裝、先進的邏輯、一些高壓半導體和更廣泛的設備，但我們確實看到了大量的後端設備。

I didn't say that and then prepare myself. I thought it was kind of a model trend there, but for sure you can see some demand in those areas. Those tend to have a bigger impact, outside of China, right, advanced logic and advanced packaging, most of that activity is going on in Taiwan to a lesser extent, Korea and the US.

我沒有這麼說然後做好準備。我認為這是那裡的一種模式趨勢，但可以肯定的是，您可以看到這些領域的一些需求。這些往往會在中國以外產生更大的影響，對吧，先進邏輯和先進封裝，大部分活動都在台灣（較小程度）、韓國和美國進行。

So you see that shift in our geographic breakdown on revenue looking out, we did see we did report that [IYR] was weak and Wafer IMEs weak that's greatly influenced by China. We did see weakness in China overall in terms of just the how the wafer fees coming out of fabs and the volume that said, we've seen continued heightened investment there and we do see new factories coming online, new notes coming up and new engagements on advanced, development for them, what would be considered maybe not advanced by non-Chinese standards. So we do expect that piece of business to recover.

因此，您會看到我們收入的地理細分發生了變化，我們確實看到我們確實報告了 [IYR] 疲軟，晶圓 IME 疲軟，這在很大程度上受到中國的影響。我們確實看到了中國整體的疲軟，就晶圓廠的晶圓費用和數量而言，我們看到那裡的投資持續增加，我們確實看到新工廠上線，新票據出現和新業務對於他們來說，先進的、發展的，以非中國的標準可能被認為不先進。因此，我們確實預計該業務將會復甦。

We don't think it's loss per, in any way, shape or form, and as we look into 2025 for that, for that part of the market, we do think it also be a mixed bag there. We do expect some consolidation within the customer base. when I was chatting with folks in that country, I think there's been kind of the Cambrian period of lots of new species and at some point, the total number of animals may increase but the diversity of species may decrease. And I think you're going to see that over there over the next year.

我們認為這不會以任何方式、形狀或形式造成損失，當我們展望 2025 年時，對於這部分市場，我們確實認為這也是一個魚龍混雜的情況。我們確實預期客戶群會出現一些整合。當我和那個國家的人們聊天時，我認為有很多新物種出現的寒武紀時期，在某個時候，動物總數可能會增加，但物種多樣性可能會減少。我想你明年就會在那裡看到這一點。

Okay, great. And another question I had was just really around the partnership, particularly with SAP any progress to report on that one.

好的，太好了。我的另一個問題實際上是關於合作夥伴關係，特別是與 SAP 的合作夥伴關係，以報告這方面的任何進展。

So, we have, you have critical deployments with them ongoing. We were featured at their verticals meeting back in October, I believe it was in Seattle, where we met with a number of mutual customers and you'll see them, they were on a panel with me at the GSA and you'll see them at our AI conference as well. There's a number of selling activities going on with them and us and a number of things we're doing on the development side because as we look at the future of deploying AI for our customers,

所以，我們已經進行了關鍵部署，並且正在進行中。我們在 10 月的垂直會議上受到了關注，我相信那是在西雅圖，在那裡我們會見了一些共同的客戶，你會看到他們，他們和我在 GSA 的一個小組中，你會看到他們在我們的人工智慧會議上也是如此。他們和我們正在進行許多銷售活動，我們在開發方面正在做許多事情，因為當我們展望為客戶部署人工智慧的未來時，

When you want to operationalize it, tying what knowledge you have about the products in the P system with what's going on the shop floor is very important. So, besides the impact it has for, we believe a number of these deployments, some that are ongoing and moving quite well. We do expect it to drive or be relevant to a lot of our AI deployments as well.

當您想要實施它時，將您對 P 系統中的產品的了解與車間的情況聯繫起來非常重要。因此，除了其影響之外，我們相信其中有一些部署，其中一些正在進行中並且進展順利。我們確實希望它也能推動或與我們的許多人工智慧部署相關。

Okay, great. Thanks for that one last quick one. I'm not sure if there's anything I had seen anything in the press, but just in terms of the on the batteries manufacturing sector, your lantern technology acquisition last year. anything to note there?

好的，太好了。謝謝你的最後一件事。我不確定我是否在媒體上看到過什麼，但就電池製造業而言，你們去年收購的燈籠技術。那裡有什麼需要注意的嗎？

Yeah, we're in deployments at some battery manufacturers working with the car companies that are working with the battery producers. So really that linkage between the car company and the battery manufacturer, really leveraging our AI around being able to really high speeds, detect the variability in the manufacturing process at run time and those pilots are ongoing. We'll see as we finish this year, what they result in terms of our expectations for 2025 but we're quite pleased with the technology progress.

是的，我們正在一些電池製造商與汽車公司合作部署，而汽車公司也與電池生產商合作。因此，汽車公司和電池製造商之間的聯繫實際上是利用我們的人工智慧來實現真正的高速，在運行時檢測製造過程中的變化，並且這些試點正在進行中。我們將在今年結束時看到它們對 2025 年預期的影響，但我們對技術進步感到非常滿意。

Great. that's great. Thanks very much, John.

偉大的。那太棒了。非常感謝，約翰。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of William Jellison with DFA Davidson. Please proceed.

謝謝。我們的下一個問題來自 William Jellison 和 DFA Davidson。請繼續。

Good afternoon. And thanks for taking my question. The first one that I wanted to ask was if you could provide an update on some of the pilot programs you've been running in and ML ops and, and how those have been going and what sorts of progress you've seen thus far as that product enters the market.

午安.感謝您提出我的問題。我想問的第一個問題是，您是否可以提供有關您一直在運行的一些試點項目和機器學習操作的最新信息，以及這些項目的進展情況以及迄今為止您所看到的進展該產品進入市場。

Sure. Yeah, and we're going to talk about this at the AI workshop. Well, and we did talk earlier this year about first customers, we've now got a number of pilots ongoing with other customers mostly around this kind of complex test flow. So, using upstream information to make better de prediction about downstream tests or actually on downstream, make better predictions.

當然。是的，我們將在人工智慧研討會上討論這個問題。嗯，我們今年早些時候確實討論過第一批客戶，現在我們已經與其他客戶進行了一些試點，主要圍繞著這種複雜的測試流程。因此，使用上游資訊對下游測試進行更好的預測，或實際上對下游進行更好的預測。

So these are things like understanding virtual burning insertion test points. Words can I. In AI do the effect, you predict the burning result and thereby skip the burning step or minimize it or change it or reduce it. And similarly around matching, if I know the results at Wafer sort, can I predict what this chiplet would look like in inside the package and therefore assign it to a collection of other chiplets that results in a better overall system performance at the package level.

這些就是了解虛擬燃燒插入測試點之類的事情。在人工智慧中，您可以預測刻錄結果，從而跳過刻錄步驟或最小化它或更改它或減少它。類似地，圍繞著匹配，如果我知道晶圓排序的結果，我可以預測該小晶片在封裝內部的樣子，從而將其分配給其他小晶片的集合，從而在封裝層級獲得更好的整體系統性能。

So there's a couple of them ongoing. They're in that kind of category, those kinds of categories, virtual insertion points, predictive insertion points and they really leverage really the benefits of MS which is that ability to span not a single test point but multiple test insertion points and take upstream, models extracted from upstream data to make better access of downstream data and testing?

所以有幾個正在進行中。它們屬於那種類別，那種類別，虛擬插入點，預測插入點，它們真正利用了 MS 的好處，即能夠跨越單個測試點，而是跨越多個測試插入點並採取上游，從上游數據中提取模型以更好地存取下游數據和測試？

Great. Thank you, John. And then the follow up question is on if I heard correctly in the prepared remarks. It sounds like PDF made a small investment in a private company during the quarter. I was wondering if you could provide any more color on what that was.

偉大的。謝謝你，約翰。然後接下來的問題是我在準備好的發言中是否聽對了。聽起來 PDF 在本季對一家私人公司進行了小額投資。我想知道你是否可以提供更多關於那是什麼的顏色。

Yeah. Absolutely. I'll speak to the numbers and then I'll let John talk about the qualitative aspects which I alluded to that. It's related to the success of our leading-edge customers. But yes, it's a $2 million investment in a convertible note. We felt the technology was quite differentiated.

是的。絕對地。我將談論數字，然後讓約翰談論我提到的定性方面。這關係到我們領先客戶的成功。但是，是的，這是一筆 200 萬美元的可轉換票據投資。我們覺得這項技術非常與眾不同。

Sometimes, there's an opportunity to look at purchasing companies or sometimes there's an opportunity to see if you can fund them to the next phase of growth, particularly if they have engagements with customers that you deem important as well. So this was one of those situations where it made sense for us to support the next phase of growth in the next milestone.

有時，有機會檢視採購公司，或有時有機會看看您是否可以資助他們進入下一階段的成長，特別是如果他們與您認為也很重要的客戶有合作。因此，在這種情況下，我們有必要支持下一個里程碑的下一階段的成長。

And it was a small enough investment for us that with the convert, we negotiated the terms that I think if the success happens, we all positioned, you want to speak to the.

這對我們來說是一筆足夠小的投資，我們與轉換者協商了條款，我認為如果成功，我們都定位，你想與之交談。

On the technical side of it. Well, as I said in the Prepared Marks of Blair, right, the future leading-edge businesses, they're all 3D, they're all the innovation goes on that the electrical behavior of the systems, we've had a test vehicle business that's super excellent at that, super valuable customers of that. The eProbe brings that in line.

在技​​術方面。嗯，正如我在布萊爾的準備標記中所說，對，未來的前沿業務，它們都是 3D 的，它們都是系統電氣行為的創新，我們已經有了測試車輛在這方面非常出色的業務，非常有價值的客戶。eProbe 使這一點保持一致。

And this is another way of exploiting our software stack to understand information about the design, the connection to our partnership in connection with Siemens, to understand the relationship between the design layout, the test faults. This lets us get additional insight and information. It's, it is it is more on the physical measurement side, but it links with our software stack and is also potentially very synergistic with the pro.

這是利用我們的軟體堆疊來了解有關設計的資訊、與我們與西門子的合作關係的聯繫、了解設計佈局和測試故障之間的關係的另一種方式。這讓我們獲得更多的見解和資訊。它更多的是在物理測量方面，但它與我們的軟體堆疊鏈接，並且也可能與專業版非常協同。

Great, thank you for taking my question.

太好了，謝謝你回答我的問題。

Okay, thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Christian Schwab with Craig Hallum capital group. Please proceed.

好的，謝謝。我們的下一個問題來自克雷格·哈勒姆資本集團的克里斯蒂安·施瓦布。請繼續。

Hey, guys, most of the questions I had were answered, but as far as 25 outlook. I think you guys said you felt positive or, or should we anticipate anything different than operating that your, at a minimal, your 20% long term growth target is, is that the way we should be thinking about it?

嘿，夥計們，我的大部分問題都得到了解答，但最多只有 25 個展望。我想你們說你們感到積極，或者，或者我們應該預期與你們至少 20% 的長期成長目標不同的營運方式，這是我們應該考慮的方式嗎？

Yeah, we don't give a specific number, but obviously, we said when we talked about this year, we said the second half of the year would set us up for annual 20% growth. You can see our Q4 number. So, you can kind of see where we're heading with this, right?

是的，我們沒有給出具體數字，但顯然，我們在談論今年時說過，下半年將使我們實現 20% 的年度成長。您可以看到我們的 Q4 號碼。所以，你可以看到我們的發展方向，對嗎？

Right now, I'm talking about calendar 25. So now that we're back.

現在，我正在談論日曆 25。所以現在我們回來了。

On our, our, we think our Q4 is more representative of how we're thinking about 2025 than we think of 2024 on average, right? Because the first half year was flat. So obviously, the blended average for 2024 is less than our 20% growth target. But as we look at 2025 my words were robust because we feel like 2024 leaves us on that growth number and we expect to be, in that zip code or better as we go into 2025.

就我們而言，我們認為第四季更能代表我們對 2025 年的看法，而不是我們對 2024 年的平均看法，對嗎？因為上半年表現平平。顯然，2024 年的混合平均值低於我們 20% 的成長目標。但當我們展望 2025 年時，我的話很有力，因為我們覺得 2024 年我們將繼續保持這一增長數字，而且我們預計，在進入 2025 年時，我們會達到這個增長數字或更好。

Fantastic. No other questions. Thank you.

極好的。沒有其他問題。謝謝。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) , we have a question from the line of Andrew winner with Samjo management, please proceed.

謝謝。 （操作員說明），我們有來自 Andrew Winner 的問題與 Samjo 管理層的聯繫，請繼續。

Good afternoon. Guys.

午安.夥計們。

Hey, Andrew.

嘿，安德魯。

Hey, I wanted to follow back up on your comments around DFI it sounds like you're making good progress with the lead customer and the customer doing the manufacturing evaluation, and we're obviously further along in the year and add on referred to CapEx spending, and the long lead items just curious last quarter, you sort of framed either what you thought the potential demand could be from those customers and or at least what we were planning to have capacity to potentially ship, throughout, I guess the balance of this year and into '25. So maybe you could sort of update that given what you've learned over the last sort of three or four months.

嘿，我想跟進您對 DFI 的評論，聽起來您與主要客戶和進行製造評估的客戶取得了良好進展，我們今年顯然取得了進一步進展，並添加了資本支出支出，以及上個季度的長交貨期項目，您有點框架了您認為這些客戶的潛在需求可能是什麼，或者至少是我們計劃有能力潛在運輸的東西，我想整個過程中的平衡今年和進入'25。因此，也許您可以根據過去三、四個月所學到的知識進行更新。

Yeah. I think by and large from a demand standpoint, we feel pretty good about where we are. We expect to be in the same range, so it's going to be in that, I forget the exact numbers we gave out. But I think it was in the 4 to 8 range if I remember correctly. We, in terms of shipments, we do believe pretty comfortable about that area about that range.

是的。我認為總的來說，從需求的角度來看，我們對自己的處境感到非常滿意。我們預計會在相同的範圍內，所以它會在這個範圍內，我忘記了我們給出的確切數字。但如果我沒記錯的話，應該是4到8的範圍內。就出貨量而言，我們確實相信該區域在該範圍內相當滿意。

we will keep on monitoring our ability to build and ship, as we go through this year. Right. We don't have all the material that we would need to make that number yet. We don't have those things built and we don't have the timing set up. So, we would have to, we've got unlike standing up the cloud, there is more orchestration required, but we think the demand is out there for that range.

今年我們將繼續監控我們的建造和運輸能力。正確的。我們還沒有達到這個數字所需的所有材料。我們還沒有建造這些東西，也沒有設定時間。因此，我們必須這樣做，與建立雲端不同，需要更多的編排，但我們認為該範圍的需求是存在的。

Okay. And that would be essentially from those two lead customers. And then if you got to the higher end, perhaps an initial memory customer, is that the way to think about it?

好的。這基本上來自這兩個主要客戶。然後，如果您達到高端，也許是初始記憶體客戶，是這樣考慮的嗎？

Yeah. Well, that would be correct. Andrew, there's an additional evals that we probably should think about. we really don't have, I think if we could put Eval machines at other places like we do with the manufacturing eval, we would probably accelerate growth.

是的。嗯，那是正確的。安德魯，我們可能應該考慮一個額外的評估。我們確實沒有，我認為如果我們能夠像製造評估那樣將評估機器放在其他地方，我們可能會加速成長。

So that's something we do need to factor. as we think about our supply chain because people have a lot of questions that, I think that the, like the manufacturing eval, I think people, customer was able to see the results from our lab and wondered if you install a machine in a real facility and you run real lots through it in real time.

所以這是我們確實需要考慮的因素。當我們考慮我們的供應鏈時，因為人們有很多問題，我認為，就像製造評估一樣，我認為人們、客戶能夠看到我們實驗室的結果，並想知道你是否在真實的環境中安裝機器設施，您可以即時運行大量數據。

Does it actually really work? And can we use it? And that's why they were able to finish quickly because, we felt pretty confident that the physics were the same around the globe. So, if we stuck the machine in there, it would result in sales more quickly. And it's let's see, knock on wood, but we believe that it's on path to do that. So, we will probably want to have some capacity to expand that program if we think about the year.

它真的有效嗎？我們可以使用它嗎？這就是為什麼他們能夠快速完成，因為我們非常有信心全球各地的物理現像都是相同的。所以，如果我們把機器放在那裡，銷售會更快。讓我們看看，敲敲木頭，但我們相信它正在實現這一目標。因此，如果考慮到這一年，我們可能希望有一定的能力來擴展該計劃。

Okay. And then you referenced, again, the early completion of the manufacturing evaluation, without putting you on the spot to get into too much of the details is, assuming you, if you meet the criteria is the intention to convert that tool into a revenue generating tool at the customer or does it need to be taken back and any upgrades or anything like that done in order to convert that to revenue?

好的。然後，您再次提到，儘早完成製造評估，而不會讓您現場了解太多細節，假設您滿足標準，則打算將該工具轉化為創收工具工具是否需要收回並進行任何升級或類似的操作才能將其轉化為收入？

Yeah, without getting into the specifics, Andrew, we, we would expect it to convert to Revenue center than a standard situation.

是的，安德魯，我們希望它能夠轉變為收入中心，而不是標準情況。

Okay. And then I'm just curious separately following up on the battery side question, have you gotten far enough in understanding the capabilities of, our systems and sort of customer needs to, if the evaluations go well to size what the opportunity could be. I mean, I'm not saying the first contracts but sort of in general if one thinks about, a battery line doing X number of batteries and generating X number of revenue. What, or is it more like DFI on a sort of tool and software basis? I'm just trying to think about what it could mean.

好的。然後我只是很好奇單獨跟進電池方面的問題，如果評估順利地確定了可能的機會，您是否充分了解我們系統的功能和客戶需求。我的意思是，我並不是說第一份合同，而是一般來說，如果有人考慮的話，一條電池生產線生產 X 數量的電池並產生 X 數量的收入。什麼，或者它更像是基於某種工具和軟體的 DFI？我只是想思考這可能意味著什麼。

Yeah, I think we're still trying to figure that out ourselves, Andrew. But what we realized, going all the way back a couple of years ago to the first pilots, we did, we were quite surprised at, when you compare battery with semi, the customers found us because they said, okay, what software is used for semi manufacturing? That's a sophisticated manufacturing line to improve yields.

是的，我想我們仍在努力解決這個問題，安德魯。但我們意識到，追溯到幾年前的第一個試點，我們做到了，我們非常驚訝，當你將電池與半成品進行比較時，客戶找到我們，因為他們說，好吧，使用了什麼軟體用於半製造？這是一條提高產量的複雜生產線。

How would that apply to us? And we went and we started deploying and what we found was the data collection rate on the equipment. Sensors is actually much more simplistic than what you would get off of a capital equipment tool in the front and drive even a back-end test assembly facility tab so that we felt there was an opportunity there and then they collect a lot of images.

這對我們來說如何呢？我們開始部署，發現設備上的資料收集率。感測器實際上比前端資本設備工具要簡單得多，甚至可以驅動後端測試組裝設施選項卡，因此我們覺得那裡有機會，然後他們收集了大量圖像。

But they do almost nothing with them. And part of that is just all around how fast the line moves and therefore how quickly any data you get off a sensor or off imager, how quickly you'd have to turn that into a control chart and operate there. It's much, much faster than semiconductors. Things are moving at meters per second, right.

但他們幾乎沒有對它們做任何事。其中一部分就是生產線移動的速度，以及從感測器或成像儀獲取資料的速度，以及將其轉換為控製圖並在那裡進行操作的速度。它比半導體快得多。物體以每秒米的速度移動，對吧。

We talk about the eProbe moving the wafer at 10 millimeters per second, right? This is moving at many meters per second, right. So, it's a whole different scale of data generation rate. And what lantern had was a very, very fast AI pipeline for being able to process and create alarms based on real information.

我們談論的是 eProbe 以每秒 10 毫米的速度移動晶圓，對嗎？它以每秒許多米的速度移動，對吧。所以，這是一個完全不同規模的資料產生率。Lantern 擁有的是一個非常非常快速的人工智慧管道，能夠根據真實資訊處理和建立警報。

And we're trying to see how valuable that is. First of all, the customers want to believe that this will actually work in a real line. So that's what we're doing right now and then if it does really work, okay, how do they use that to control their line better? They have, there's a lot of reasons why it should be very valuable because a lot of your unlike semiconductors where most of your cost is the capital, the cost of the chip is, depreciation of the capital, most of your cost is consumable. So, running a line even for a few minutes longer before you take action is actually quite expensive as a percentage of your capital build cost.

我們正在嘗試看看它有多有價值。首先，客戶希望相信這實際上可以在實際生產線上發揮作用。這就是我們現在正在做的事情，如果它確實有效，那麼他們如何利用它來更好地控制他們的生產線？他們有很多理由為什麼它應該非常有價值，因為很多與半導體不同，半導體的大部分成本是資本，晶片的成本是資本折舊，大部分成本是消耗品。因此，在您採取行動之前，即使多運行幾分鐘，作為資本建設成本的一部分，實際上也是相當昂貴的。

So there's reasons why it should be valuable. we are trying to work through all those things, over these next, months. The nice thing about it is the cycle times are so much faster. You, you have material in and days and weeks, not months and years. So, you learn your ability to see the benefit of the in-line data and modeling and alarming is quicker. So that has helped us get learning cycles faster.

所以它應該有價值是有原因的。我們正在努力在接下來的幾個月中解決所有這些問題。它的好處是循環時間要快得多。你，你在幾天和幾週內擁有材料，而不是幾個月和幾年。因此，您將了解如何更快地看到內聯資料和建模和警報的好處。這幫助我們加快了學習週期。

But I suspect it's 2025 initial customers and then we'll get some understanding about what that means. in the out years, we made that investment, we didn't think that was going to be a quick hitter. It was a small investment that was a little bit of a Moonshot

但我懷疑是 2025 年的初始客戶，然後我們會對這意味著什麼有所了解。在過去的幾年裡，我們進行了這項投資，但我們不認為這很快就會成功。這是一筆小投資，有點像登月計劃

Along those lines, John, but as you're doing these pilots, are you seeing them deploying or, evaluating other, systems or is it an out of the box approach of looking at your solutions, it would be sort of a completely new way of sort of approaching, their manufacturing process.

沿著這些思路，約翰，但是當您進行這些試點時，您是否看到他們正在部署或評估其他系統，或者這是查看解決方案的開箱即用方法，這將是一種全新的方式有點接近他們的製造過程。

Great question, Andrew. We're still trying to understand that too. when we did our own surveys, we didn't think there was anything else out there that was quite like what they had and we thought, given our experience in Semiconductor manufacturing and how important it is to always, they say shift to the left, move upstream any ability to predict downstream problems.

好問題，安德魯。我們仍在努力理解這一點。當我們進行自己的調查時，我們認為沒有其他東西與他們所擁有的東西非常相似，我們認為，考慮到我們在半導體製造方面的經驗以及始終如此重要，他們說向左移動，向上游移動任何預測下游問題的能力。

And we knew that was super important in our industry. We felt like it would be important in their industry. And we were quite surprised at how late they get information, relative to the production flow for this industry.

我們知道這對我們的行業來說非常重要。我們覺得這對他們的行業很重要。我們對他們獲得相對於該行業生產流程的資訊的晚得感到非常驚訝。

So it seemed like there wasn't, another alternative out there that was quite like what they had there is in line data collection, but it's quite simplistic. And there isn't, both the combination of in line and sophisticated that we saw. And that's why we, effectively started putting our toe in the water with this acquisition.

所以似乎沒有，另一種替代方案與他們所擁有的非常相似，即線上資料收集，但它非常簡單。但我們所看到的直線與精緻的結合並不存在。這就是為什麼我們實際上開始透過這次收購嘗試。

But I personally, I always scratch my head on this. I think any manufacturing person would think it's intuitive. You always want to get the best product you can as early as you can in the process. There's, and yeah, so we would think that this would have been something others would be doing, but we don't know of another one out that it's quite like what, what this team had built.

但就我個人而言，我總是對此摸不著頭腦。我認為任何製造人員都會認為這是直觀的。您總是希望在過程中儘早獲得最好的產品。是的，所以我們認為這可能是其他人會做的事情，但我們不知道還有其他的事情與這個團隊所建立的非常相似。

Okay. And then maybe my last question, you pointed out advance test is sort of an area of strength, can you talk a little bit about sort of what you're doing now with your, fan test and paradigm and how you're working with them to capture that opportunity versus, sort of going directly to the customers.

好的。然後也許是我的最後一個問題，您指出高級測試是一個優勢領域，您能否談談您現在正在使用您的粉絲測試和範式所做的事情以及您如何與它們合作抓住這個機會，而不是直接接觸客戶。

Yeah, it always involves a certain amount of direct work with customers, right? A lot of what we're doing with them, particularly in advent test case, have brought a lot of compute, they call a [ACS] to the, sitting with the tester that enables more sophisticated AI and our, the standard way that models are run, they, when they're running on the test, they're very lightweight, often rules because you don't want to over load this, the process of running the test program with a very, very computationally intensive model.

是的，它總是涉及與客戶進行一定數量的直接合作，對吧？我們用它們做的很多事情，特別是在出現測試案例中，都帶來了大量的計算，他們稱之為[ACS]，與測試人員坐在一起，支援更複雜的人工智慧和我們的建模標準方式正在運行，當它們在測試中運行時，它們非常輕量級，通常是規則，因為您不想超載它，即使用非常非常計算密集型模型運行測試程序的過程。

So what those edge boxes enable is an enable to bring a much more sophisticated ML model or even some elements of design automation information to the edge with a certain level of security because of the way they're architected to, to work with the customer. And so, a lot of what we've been doing with them is coming up with ways that with their software and hardware stack and ML ops in our other capabilities, you're able to enable more sophisticated control at the test point.

因此，這些邊緣盒能夠將更複雜的機器學習模型，甚至設計自動化資訊的某些元素帶到邊緣，並具有一定程度的安全性，因為它們的架構方式與客戶合作。因此，我們與他們一起做的很多事情都是想出一些方法，利用他們的軟體和硬體堆疊以及我們其他功能中的 ML 操作，您能夠在測試點實現更複雜的控制。

And the reason why that's needed when you look at advanced packaging, you're testing many chiplets that wafer sort instead of just one chip and you maybe have three test insertions for each. So, four chiplets, three test insertions. That's 12 tests that Wafer sort. And then you've got test points in final test as well, multiple ones after you've packaged it.

當您考慮先進封裝時，之所以需要這樣做，是因為您正在測試許多晶圓排序的小晶片，而不是僅測試一個晶片，並且每個晶片可能需要三個測試插入。因此，四個小晶片，三個測試插入。這是晶圓排序的 12 個測試。然後，您在最終測試中也會獲得測試點，打包後會有多個測試點。

So, there's a lot of value being able to take information for upstream and predict downstream or be a, make a more informed decision downstream. And a lot of what we're doing with them is really looking at as you put more additional algorithms at the edge. How does that, how does that benefit the customer and their test? what can you do beyond a simple or thinner model? And this is true for both of them?

因此，能夠為上游獲取資訊並預測下游，或在下游做出更明智的決策，具有很大的價值。當你在邊緣放置更多額外的演算法時，我們對它們所做的很多事情實際上都是在關注。這對客戶及其測試有什麼好處？除了簡單或更薄的模型之外，您還能做什麼？這對他們倆來說都是如此嗎？

Okay, great. Thank.

好的，太好了。感謝。

You.

你。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) . All right, at this time, there are no more questions. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the program. Thank you for joining us today's call.

謝謝。（操作員說明）。好了，這個時候，已經沒有什麼問題了。女士們、先生們，本集節目到此結束。感謝您參加我們今天的電話會議。