Paysign Inc (PAYS) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. My name is Kevin and I'll be your conference operator today. At this time, I'd like to welcome everyone to the Paysign. Inc third quarter, 2024 earnings conference call after the speaker's remarks. There will be a question and answer session as a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

午安.我叫凱文，今天我將擔任你們的會議操作員。此時此刻，我歡迎大家來到Paysign。本公司在演講者發表演說後召開的 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。將會有一個問答環節作為提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。

If you'd like to be placed into question. Q you may press star one at any time. The comments on today's call regarding Paysign's financial results will be on a GAAP basis. Unless otherwise noted, Paysign's earnings release will be disseminated to the SEC earlier today and can be found on the investor relations section of our website paysign.com which includes reconciliations of non GAAP measures to GAAP reported amounts additionally as set forth in more detail in our earnings release.

如果您願意受到質疑。問：您可以隨時按星號一。今天電話會議上有關 Paysign 財務業績的評論將基於 GAAP 基礎。除非另有說明，Paysign 的收益報告將於今天早些時候分發給SEC，並且可以在我們網站paysign.com 的投資者關係部分找到，其中包括非GAAP 指標與GAAP 報告金額的對賬，詳細信息請參見我們的收益發布。

I'd like to remind everyone that today's call will include forward-looking statements regarding Paysign's future performance. Actual performance could differ materially from these forward-looking statements, information about the factors that could affect future performance to summarize at the end of paysign's earnings release. And in our recent SEC filings lastly, a replay of this call will be available until February fifth 2025. Please see Paysign's third quarter earnings call announcement for details on how to access the replay. It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr Mark Newcomer CEO. Please go ahead.

我想提醒大家，今天的電話會議將包括有關 Paysign 未來業績的前瞻性陳述。實際業績可能與這些前瞻性陳述有重大差異，有關可能影響未來績效的因素的資訊將在 Paysign 收益發布結束時進行總結。最後，在我們最近向 SEC 提交的文件中，本次電話會議的重播將持續到 2025 年 2 月 5 日。請參閱 Paysign 第三季財報電話會議公告，以了解有關如何存取重播的詳細資訊。現在我很高興將電話轉給執行長馬克紐科默先生。請繼續。

Thank you, Kevin. Good afternoon, everyone and welcome to Paysign's third quarter earnings call. I'm Mark Newcomer President and CEO of Paysign. Joining me today is Jeff Baker, our Chief Financial Officer. Later during our Q&A session, we will also be joined by Matt Turner, our President of patient affordability and Matt Lanford, our Chief Payments Officer.

謝謝你，凱文。大家下午好，歡迎參加 Paysign 第三季財報電話會議。我是 Paysign 的總裁兼執行長 Mark Newcomer。今天加入我的是我們的財務長 Jeff Baker。在稍後的問答環節中，我們的患者負擔能力總裁馬特·特納 (Matt Turner) 和我們的首席支付官馬特·蘭福德 (Matt Lanford) 也將加入我們。

Today, we announced our financial results for the third quarter of 2024 and I'm pleased to report that Paysign has demonstrated meaningful growth in both revenue and profitability consecutively and year over year revenue for the third quarter was $15.3 million an increase of 23% compared to the same period in 2023 and a 6.5% increase from the prior quarter. Our adjusted EBITDA rose 20.6% to $2.8 million or $0.05 per fully diluted share up from $2.4 million or $0.04 per fully diluted share.

今天，我們公佈了 2024 年第三季的財務業績，我很高興地報告，Paysign 的營收和獲利能力連續大幅成長，第三季營收年增 23%，達到 1,530 萬美元。增長6.5%。我們調整後的 EBITDA 成長了 20.6%，從 240 萬美元或完全稀釋每股 0.04 美元增至 280 萬美元或完全稀釋每股 0.05 美元。

A year earlier, gross margins also improved significantly increasing by 440 basis points to 55.5% compared to 51.1% in the same period last year. Driven largely by the expansion of our patient affordability business. Revenue from our patient affordability business grew by an impressive 219% year over year reaching $3.3 million in the third quarter up from roughly $1 million in the same quarter. Last year claims processed rose by 430% compared to the same period last year.

一年前，毛利率也顯著改善，從去年同期的 51.1% 增加 440 個基點至 55.5%。主要是由我們的患者負擔能力業務的擴張所推動的。我們的患者負擔能力業務的收入年增了 219%，第三季達到 330 萬美元，而同一季度約為 100 萬美元。去年處理的索賠比去年同期增加了 430%。

This marks the fourth consecutive quarter of triple digit year over year revenue growth for patient affordability, which continues to be a major contributor to our overall success. We finished the quarter with 66 patient affordability programs with additional launches continuing throughout the remainder of the year. We are encouraged by the trend of existing clients bringing additional programs to us which not only shortens the sales cycle but also reduces the program acquisition cost while creating immediate revenue opportunities.

這標誌著患者負擔能力的收入連續第四個季度實現三位數同比增長，這仍然是我們整體成功的主要貢獻者。本季結束時，我們推出了 66 個患者負擔能力計劃，並在今年剩餘時間內繼續推出更多計劃。我們對現有客戶為我們帶來更多專案的趨勢感到鼓舞，這不僅縮短了銷售週期，而且降低了專案獲取成本，同時創造了即時收入機會。

As many of these additional programs are transition programs. In the fourth quarter, we expect to onboard several programs from both new and existing clients including a new cornerstone account, one of the world's largest pharmaceutical companies, our forward momentum positions us well for continued growth throughout the remainder of this year and well into 2025 our pipeline remains strong with a mix of pharmacy based retail specialty and medical benefits programs.

由於許多這些附加計劃都是過渡計劃。在第四季度，我們預計將啟動新客戶和現有客戶的多個項目，包括一個新的基石帳戶（世界上最大的製藥公司之一），我們的前進勢頭使我們能夠在今年剩餘時間和2025年持續成長。

Highlighting our strategy to diversify revenue streams. Our current program composition is weighted towards specialty drugs with an emphasis on Oncolytics programs launched in the third quarter of this year, gave us additional claim volume in the retail space, something we believe will drive further growth as we pursue new opportunities in this market. Our plasma donor compensation business faced some challenges this quarter with hurricanes and staffing shortages affecting operations in our client centres.

強調我們的收入來源多元化策略。我們目前的項目構成偏重於特種藥物，重點是今年第三季推出的溶瘤項目，這為我們在零售領域帶來了額外的索賠量，我們相信，當我們在這個市場尋求新機會時，這將推動進一步的成長。我們的血漿捐贈者補償業務本季面臨一些挑戰，颶風和人員短缺影響了我們客戶中心的運作。

Despite these headwinds revenue grew to $11.4 million, representing a 3.4% increase year over year and a 1.5% increase from the second quarter. We did experience a slight decrease in revenue per centre to $7,991 this quarter versus $8,041 last year relating to these factors. We added one plasma centre during the quarter bringing our total to 478 centres and we plan to add another two centres by the end of the year.

儘管有這些不利因素，營收仍成長至 1,140 萬美元，年增 3.4%，比第二季成長 1.5%。由於這些因素，本季每個中心的收入確實略有下降，降至 7,991 美元，而去年為 8,041 美元。我們在本季度增加了一個血漿中心，使中心總數達到 478 個，並計劃在年底前再增加兩個中心。

As new centre openings remain muted while growth in the plasma business has been tempered by external forces outside of our control. We remain committed to enhancing the productivity and efficiency of our services to the centres overall, we are pleased with our performance in the third quarter which was driven primarily by outstanding growth in our patient affordability business.

由於新中心的開設仍然很少，而血漿業務的成長受到我們無法控制的外部力量的抑制。我們仍然致力於提高整個中心服務的生產力和效率，我們對第三季度的業績感到滿意，這主要是由於我們的患者負擔能力業務的出色增長所推動的。

This segment is on its way to becoming our primary revenue driver. We believe the investments we are making in this area will yield substantial long term growth and create significant shareholder value. Our commitment to developing innovative fintech solutions that address key challenges in health care payments, particularly patient affordability remains strong. We are confident that combined with our ongoing initiatives and plasma compensation and new opportunities in the evolving payments landscape.

該細分市場正在成為我們的主要收入驅動力。我們相信，我們在這一領域進行的投資將產生可觀的長期成長，並創造顯著的股東價值。我們仍然堅定地致力於開發創新的金融科技解決方案，以解決醫療保健支付的主要挑戰，特別是病患的負擔能力。我們相信，結合我們正在進行的舉措和等離子補償以及不斷變化的支付領域的新機會。

We are well positioned to deliver sustainable long-term value for our shareholders. I want to extend my gratitude to each member of the paysign team for their relentless dedication and hard work. It is your commitment that drives our success. I will now pass the call over to Jeff who will provide further details on our financial performance for the quarter.

我們有能力為股東創造可持續的長期價值。我要向 Paysign 團隊的每位成員表示感謝，感謝他們不懈的奉獻和辛勤工作。您的承諾推動我們取得成功。我現在將把電話轉給傑夫，他將提供有關我們本季財務業績的更多詳細資訊。

Thank you, Mark. Good afternoon, everyone. As Mark said, we executed on another good quarter. Plasma donor compensation revenue increased $378,000 versus the same period last year or 3.4% to $11.44 million. This was primarily driven by increases in the number of plasma centers 478 versus 462. And to a lesser extent, modest increases in gross dollar cards, loads of 1.8% and gross spin volume of 0.4%. This was offset by a modest decline in the average load amounts.

謝謝你，馬克。大家下午好。正如馬克所說，我們又一個季度表現出色。血漿捐獻者補償收入比去年同期增加了 378,000 美元，即 3.4%，達到 1,144 萬美元。這主要是由於血漿中心數量的增加（478 個與 462 個）有關。在較小程度上，紙牌總額略有增加，負載量增加 1.8%，總旋轉量增加 0.4%。這被平均負載量的小幅下降所抵消。

Net the year over year average monthly revenue per plasma centre declined slightly to $7991 versus $8041. As Mark mentioned, our centres experienced reduced availability related to weather and staffing shortages and we expect these same issues to have an impact on the growth of our Q4 plasma donor compensation revenue. Free cash flow from this business remains strong, which is helping to support the rapid growth in our pharma patient affordability business.

每個血漿中心的平均月淨收入較去年同期略有下降，從 8,041 美元降至 7,991 美元。正如馬克所提到的，我們的中心因天氣和人員短缺而出現可用性下降，我們預計這些相同的問題將對我們第四季血漿捐獻者補償收入的成長產生影響。該業務的自由現金流仍然強勁，這有助於支持我們的製藥患者負擔能力業務的快速成長。

Pharma patient affordability revenue increased $2.25 million or 219% to $3.27 million. Primarily driven by the addition of 32 Net new pharma patient affordability programs launched over the past twelve months. Pharma patient affordability revenue equated to 21.5% of total revenue during the quarter versus 8.3% during the same period last year.

製藥患者負擔能力收入增加 225 萬美元，或 219%，達到 327 萬美元。主要是由於過去 12 個月內推出了 32 個淨新的藥物患者負擔能力計劃。藥品患者負擔能力收入佔本季總收入的 21.5%，去年同期為 8.3%。

We exited the quarter with 66 active pharma patient affordability programs, an increase of 23 programs since the end of 2023 other revenue increased $230,000 or 73.5% to $542,000 due to the growth in our payroll retail and other corporate incentive businesses.

本季結束時，我們有66 個活躍的藥物患者負擔能力計劃，自2023 年底以來增加了23 個計劃，由於我們的工資零售和其他企業激勵業務的增長，其他收入增加了230,000 美元或73.5%，達到542,000 美元。

We continue to look for ways to improve the profitability of this other revenue stream which lacks the scale of our other businesses and experiences higher fraud costs as a percentage of revenue. As in previous calls with all the details we provided in the press release and that will be available in our 10-Q filing tomorrow morning.

我們繼續尋找方法來提高其他收入來源的獲利能力，該收入來源缺乏我們其他業務的規模，並且詐欺成本佔收入的比例更高。與之前的電話會議一樣，我們在新聞稿中提供了所有詳細信息，這些詳細信息將在明天早上的 10-Q 文件中提供。

I will simply hit the financial highlights for the third quarter of 2024 versus the same period last year, third quarter, 2024 total revenues of $15.3 million increased $2.9 million or 23% versus the same period last year. Gross profit margin for the quarter was 55.5% versus 51.1% during the same period last year, an improvement of 440 basis points SG&A for the quarter increased 32.4% to $6.2 million with total operating expenses increasing 35.6% to $7.8 million.

我簡單講一下2024年第三季與去年同期相比的財務亮點，2024年第三季總營收為1,530萬美元，與去年同期相比增加了290萬美元，即23%。該季度的毛利率為55.5​​%，與去年同期的51.1% 相比，提高了440 個基點。 %，達780 萬美元。

$520,000 of the operating expense increase was related to higher depreciation and amortization costs. We continue to make significant investments in both IT and personnel to support the continued growth of our businesses, especially on our patient affordability business. We exited this quarter with 164 employees versus 112 during the same period. Last year for the quarter.

營業費用增加 52 萬美元與折舊和攤提成本增加有關。我們繼續在 IT 和人員方面進行大量投資，以支持我們業務的持續成長，特別是在患者負擔能力業務方面。本季結束時，我們有 164 名員工，而同期為 112 名。去年這個季度。

We posted a net income of $1.4 million or $0.03per fully diluted share versus net income of $1.1 million or $0.02 per fully diluted share for the same period. Last year, we recorded a tax expense of $54,000 during the quarter for an effective tax rate of 3.6%.

我們公佈的淨利潤為 140 萬美元，或完全稀釋每股 0.03 美元，而同期淨利潤為 110 萬美元，或完全稀釋每股 0.02 美元。去年，我們在該季度記錄的稅費為 54,000 美元，有效稅率為 3.6%。

The third quarter adjusted EBITDA which is a non GAAP measure that adds back stock compensation to EBITDA was $2.8 million or $0.05 per diluted share versus $2.3 million or $0.04 per diluted share for the same period last year. This equates to a 20.6% year over year growth in our adjusted EBITDA.

第三季調整後的EBITDA（一種非GAAP 衡量標準，將股票補償加到EBITDA 中）為280 萬美元，即稀釋後每股0.05 美元，而去年同期為230 萬美元，即稀釋後每股0.04美元。這相當於我們調整後的 EBITDA 年成長 20.6%。

The fully diluted share count for the quarters used in calculating the per share amount was 56.1 million shares and 53.5 million shares respectfully, which reflects additional in the money options that were previously out of the money. The adjusted EBITDA on margin declined slightly to 18.5% versus 18.9% during the same period last year due to investments being made to support our patient affordability business.

用於計算每股金額的季度完全攤薄後的股數分別為 5,610 萬股和 5,350 萬股，這反映了先前處於價外的貨幣選擇權的額外數量。由於為支持我們的患者負擔能力業務進行了投資，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率小幅下降至 18.5%，而去年同期為 18.9%。

Regarding the health of our company, we exited the quarter with $10.3 million in unrestricted cash and zero debt despite the use of $360,000 during the quarter to repurchase shares, this was equal to the adjusted unrestricted cash balance of $10.3 million at the end of 2023 and an increase of $1.7 million from the adjusted unrestricted cash balance of $8.8 million at the end of Q2 2024.

關於我們公司的健康狀況，儘管本季使用了36 萬美元回購股票，但我們在本季結束時仍擁有1,030 萬美元的非限制現金和零債務，相當於2023 年底調整後的非限制現金餘額1,030 萬美元，比 2024 年第二季末調整後的非限制現金餘額 880 萬美元增加 170 萬美元。

The adjusted amounts take out the impact of accounts receivable accounts payable and cash collections related to pass through invoicing of our patient affordability business. As discussed in the past patient affordability. Customers are invoiced at the end of the period to reimburse funds used to cover related copay amounts for monthly patient affordability claims.

調整後的金額消除了與病患負擔能力業務轉帳相關的應收帳款、應付帳款和現金收款的影響。正如過去所討論的，患者的承受能力。客戶將在該期間結束時收到發票，以償還用於支付每月患者負擔能力索賠的相關共付額的資金。

The changes in these balances do not equate to the revenue per claim. We charge the pharmaceutical companies for paying such claim amounts. We expect that as the business grows. So will fluctuations in AR and AP and unrestricted cash restricted cash increased $7.9 million to $100.3 million from December thirty first 2023.

這些餘額的變化並不等於每項索賠的收入。我們向製藥公司收取此類索賠金額。我們預計隨著業務的成長。因此，自 2023 年 12 月 30 日起，AR 和 AP 的波動以及不受限制的現金限制現金將增加 790 萬美元至 1.003 億美元。

Primarily due to increases in customer deposits for plasma and pharma customers of $8.5 million offset by a decrease in funds on card of $556,000. Restricted cash are funds used for customer card funding and pharmaceutical claims with a corresponding offset under current liabilities.

主要是由於血漿和製藥客戶存款增加了 850 萬美元，但卡內資金減少了 556,000 美元。限制性現金是用於客戶卡融資和藥品索賠的資金，並在流動負債項下進行相應抵銷。

We repurchase 100,000 shares of our common stock in a private purchase at an average cost per share of $3.60. At the end of the quarter, $3.5 million remained outstanding under our share repurchase program. Now turning your attention to our guidance for the remainder of the year, we continue to expect total revenues to be in the range of $56.5 million to $58.5 million. Reflecting year over year growth of 20% to 24%.

我們以私人購買方式回購 100,000 股普通股，平均每股成本為 3.60 美元。截至本季末，我們的股票回購計畫中仍有 350 萬美元未償還。現在請您關注我們對今年剩餘時間的指導，我們仍然預計總收入將在 5,650 萬美元至 5,850 萬美元之間。較去年同期成長 20% 至 24%。

Four-year Gross profit margins are still expected to be between 54% and 55% reflecting increased revenue contribution from our pharma patient affordability business. Operating expenses are still expected to be between $30 million and $32 million dollars as we continue to make investments in people and technology to support the growth of our business of this amount depreciation and amortization is expected to be approximately $6 million.

四年毛利率預計仍將在 54% 至 55% 之間，反映出我們的製藥患者負擔能力業務的收入貢獻增加。由於我們繼續對人員和技術進行投資以支持我們業務的成長，預計營運費用仍將在 3,000 萬美元至 3,200 萬美元之間，預計折舊和攤提金額約為 600 萬美元。

While stock based compensation is expected to be approximately $2.6 million as disclosed in the legal section of our 10-Q and in our 8-K released earlier today, we expect to have one time legal expenses during the fourth quarter related to the settlement of our class action and derivative lawsuits. This expense was not anticipated at the time we provided financial guidance, but we still anticipate our operating expenses to be within the previous guided ranges.

雖然我們的10-Q 法律部分和今天早些時候發布的8-K 中披露的基於股票的薪酬預計約為260 萬美元，但我們預計第四季度將出現與我們的和解相關的一次性法律費用。我們在提供財務指導時並未預計到這筆費用，但我們仍然預計我們的營運費用將在先前的指導範圍內。

Given the continued increases in our average daily balances of unrestricted and restricted cash and the current interest rate environment. We expect interest income of approximately $3.1 million. We expect full year tax rate to be between 19% and 19.5%. And our fully diluted share count outstanding to be between $55.5 million and $56 million. Taking all of the factors above into consideration. We expect net income to be in the range of $3 million to $3.5 million or approximately $0.06 per diluted share and adjusted EBITDA to be in the range of $9 million to $10 million which is 15% to 17% of total revenues or $0.16 to $0.18 per diluted share with that. I would like to turn the call back over to Kevin for question and answers.

鑑於我們的非限制性和限制性現金日均餘額持續增加以及當前的利率環境。我們預計利息收入約為 310 萬美元。我們預計全年稅率在19%至19.5%之間。我們完全攤薄後的流通股數量在 5550 萬美元至 5600 萬美元之間。考慮到以上所有因素。我們預計淨利潤將在300 萬至350 萬美元之間，或稀釋後每股約0.06 美元，調整後EBITDA 將在900 萬至1000 萬美元之間，佔總收入的15% 至17%，或每股0.16 至0.18 美元。我想將電話轉回給凱文，以供其提問和解答。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Pete Hackmann, D.A. Davidson

皮特·哈克曼，D.A.戴維森

Hey, good afternoon, gentlemen. Thanks for taking the question. Wanted to see if you could go back. And talk a little bit about the additional Pharma campaigns added during the quarter and then some of the comments you made around the certain types of Pharma campaigns as well as the comment about I think it was a very large, I don't think you used the word large but an important campaign from one of the largest drug manufacturers.

嘿，下午好，先生們。感謝您提出問題。想看看你是否可以回去。並談談本季度添加的其他製藥活動，然後是您圍繞某些類型的製藥活動發表的一些評論，以及關於我認為這是一個非常大的評論，我認為您沒有使用“大”這個詞是最大的藥品製造商之一發起的一項重要活動。

Could you just go into that a little bit more detail that that went by really quickly. I didn't have the time to take all the notes and I'd like to get any incremental detail we could in terms of, you know, where you are now having success and where you're moving to with these patient assistant programs.

您能否詳細介紹一下這件事，事情進展得很快。我沒有時間記下所有筆記，我想獲得任何增量細節，例如，您現在在哪些方面取得了成功，以及您將在這些患者助理計劃中走向何方。

So this is Matt Turner. Let's kind of start with the cornerstone account. You know, if you kind of look at the business as a whole right now, we're sitting on three or four, what we would consider cornerstone or strategic accounts, these typically represent larger manufacturers that have broad portfolios of products covering a variety of therapeutic classes.

這是馬特·特納。讓我們從基石帳戶開始。你知道，如果你現在把業務看成一個整體，我們坐擁三四個我們認為是基石或戰略客戶的客戶，這些客戶通常代表較大的製造商，擁有廣泛的產品組合，涵蓋各種領域治療課程。

So, you know, they may have specialty drugs which, you know, are typically come from a specialty pharmacy these are high cost drugs, you know, $10,000 and up most times, then they'll have retail products, you know, these are your typical brick and mortar stores and then most of them will also have products that are hybrid programs where they run on the like the medical insurance side, not the pharmacy side kind of the legacy stuff we used to call buy and bill.

所以，你知道，他們可能有特種藥物，通常來自特種藥房，這些都是高成本藥物，你知道，大多數時候價格為 10,000 美元以上，然後他們會有零售產品，你知道，這些是你典型的實體店，然後他們中的大多數也會有混合計劃的產品，他們在醫療保險方面運行，而不是我們過去稱之為購買和賬單的傳統東西的藥房方面。

So we completed a contract with one and we'll launch programs for them in this quarter of this year. Your other question was around the like the new programs that we launched. Can you kind of repeat that part of the question because I didn't understand exactly what you were asking there.

因此，我們與其中一家公司簽訂了一份合同，我們將在今年這個季度為他們啟動專案。你的另一個問題是關於我們推出的新計劃。您能否重複問題的這一部分，因為我不明白您到底在問什麼。

Just trying to get a better feel as you grow the total number of campaigns or programs. You know, are we getting close to being able to have kind of a, an average revenue per program or an average term or are we still seeing that you know, the combination of, you know, these very expensive kind of you know, in office treatments versus retail is just makes it so that an average is just not really that relevant.

只是想在活動或計劃總數增加時獲得更好的感覺。你知道，我們是否已經接近能夠獲得每個項目的平均收入或平均期限，或者我們是否仍然看到，你知道，這些非常昂貴的類型的組合，在辦公室處理與零售的比較只是使得平均值並不那麼重要。

Yeah, and average it's not relevant here. And it also depends on the types of claims that we're running as to the revenue per claim, things like that. So, you know, you may have one program that's going to run 30,000-40,000 or 50,000 claims a month and you could have another program that's going to run two if it's in a rare disease state.

是的，平均而言，這裡不相關。它還取決於我們正在運行的索賠類型以及每次索賠的收入等。所以，您知道，您可能有一個計劃每月會處理 30,000-40,000 或 50,000 份索賠，而您可能有另一個計劃會在罕見疾病狀態下處理兩次索賠。

So, you know, obviously those aren't priced exactly the same. So there's not really a place to put an average to where it would make sense to say, hey, every program you're going to bring on now is going to effectively add X thousands of dollars a month. There's, obviously some kind of minimums that are in there around some administrative fees and things like that. But when you get into the transactional area, there's no real way to average that out.

所以，你知道，顯然這些價格並不完全相同。因此，實際上沒有一個地方可以將平均值計算到有意義的地方，即，嘿，您現在要實施的每個計劃都會有效地每月增加 X 數千美元。顯然，在一些行政費用和類似費用方面存在某種最低限度。但當你進入交易領域時，就沒有真正的方法來平均這一點。

Got it. Okay. And then last question and I'll get back in the queue, but just based upon the really strong growth that you've seen in Pharma year-to-date and, and I'm sure you have some decent visibility to the fourth quarter, I guess. Is there any type of colour, your early colour? You can give us preliminary colour on how you think this segment might grow in, in 2025.

知道了。好的。然後是最後一個問題，我將回到隊列中，但僅基於您在製藥業今年迄今為止所看到的真正強勁的增長，並且我確信您對第四季度有一些不錯的了解，我猜。有沒有什麼顏色，你早期的顏色？您可以向我們提供您認為該細分市場在 2025 年將如何發展的初步資訊。

I mean, if you're asking for a number, I'll have to defer that one to Jeff and let him, you know, let him issue the numbers guidance. I think I kind of stand by the comment that we have a really strong pipeline. These additional, the cornerstone accounts that we currently have and the one that we just added really open up the ability to what we call farm inside.

我的意思是，如果你要一個數字，我必須把這個數字交給傑夫，讓他，你知道，讓他發布數字指導。我想我有點支持我們擁有非常強大的管道的評論。我們目前擁有的這些額外的基石帳戶和我們剛剛添加的帳戶確實開啟了我們所謂的「內部農場」的能力。

So, you know, if you were to be able to see everything we're doing over here you would see one or two programs come over. It's kind of a test bed for them to make sure we know what we're doing that our solutions work the way we say they're going to work and the moment that comes along and we start saving the money or execute really well, we start to see other programs shift over.

所以，你知道，如果你能夠看到我們在這裡所做的一切，你會看到一兩個程式過來。這對他們來說是一個測試平台，以確保我們知道我們在做什麼，我們的解決方案按照我們所說的方式工作，當我們開始省錢或執行得很好時，我們開始看到其他程序轉移。

And that's, you know I think we're going to see increased business from current clients moving into next year. That's, you know, what has helped fuel some of the growth this year. You know, certainly not all of it, but it has helped. And then as we move into, you know we've been selling for 2025 for the last two quarters. Now, you know, as we look at FDA approvals and things like that. So, you know, I mean, next year, I'd say it looks strong and I'll, let Jeff kind of, you know, deal with the numbers if that pops up.

也就是說，我認為明年我們將看到現有客戶的業務增加。你知道，這就是推動今年成長的部分原因。你知道，當然不是全部，但它有幫助。然後，當我們進入時，您知道我們在過去兩個季度中一直在銷售 2025 年的產品。現在，你知道，當我們查看 FDA 的批准和類似的事情時。所以，你知道，我的意思是，明年，我會說它看起來很強勁，如果發生這種情況，我會讓傑夫處理這些數字。

Yeah. So, I mean, we obviously haven't given any guidance. You know, this year it's looking like for the full year, we still stand by that patient affordability is going to be about 20% of total revenues for the year. It was 21.5% for the quarter, you know, next year that's obviously going to increase whether that's, you know, 25% or so. I think it's definitely doable.

是的。所以，我的意思是，我們顯然沒有給出任何指導。你知道，今年看起來全年，我們仍然認為患者的負擔能力將佔全年總收入的 20% 左右。這個季度的成長率是 21.5%，明年這個數字顯然會增加，無論是 25% 左右。我認為這絕對是可行的。

You know, we do have a strong pipeline like Matt just mentioned, but a lot of it comes into timing when some of these programs launch. You also keep in mind as far as guidance goes, you know, keep my first quarter is going to be strong for this business because of everything resets at twelve thirty one from a claims perspective.

你知道，我們確實有像馬特剛才提到的強大的管道，但其中很多都取決於其中一些項目啟動的時機。您還請記住，就指導而言，您知道，我的第一季對這項業務來說將會很強勁，因為從索賠的角度來看，一切都會在十二點三十一點重置。

Some of these programs, the claims because people reach their out of pocket maximums, they don't get paid as you go through the, you know, remainder as you get towards the second half of the year. So typically this business will show stronger growth in the first and the second quarter if we weren't going to add any more businesses throughout the rest of the year, which I don't think that's a very good assumption, but, you know, we definitely, you should see some pretty strong numbers in the first or second quarter for sure. And we'll get more, I'll get more information as we get closer to giving guidance as we get through the first quarter and we have some more visibility on what programs exactly have launched, you know, as we go through the year.

其中一些計劃，因為人們達到了他們的自付費用上限而提出索賠，當你經歷下半年的剩餘時間時，他們不會得到報酬。因此，如果我們不打算在今年剩餘時間增加更多業務，那麼通常該業務將在第一季和第二季顯示出更強勁的成長，我認為這不是一個很好的假設，但是，你知道，當然，您肯定會在第一季或第二季看到一些相當強勁的數字。我們會得到更多，我會得到更多的信息，因為我們在第一季度越來越接近提供指導，並且隨著我們度過這一年，我們對到底推出了哪些計劃有了更多的了解。

I appreciate it.

我很感激。

Gary Prestopino, Barrington Research.

加里‧普雷斯托皮諾，巴靈頓研究中心。

Yeah, just a question on the plasma business, not really with the hurricanes as much, but what is going on with the staffing shortages? Is it just that the economy is so strong, we can't get people to work in these centres?

是的，只是一個關於血漿業務的問題，與颶風無關，但人員短缺是怎麼回事？難道只是因為經濟如此強勁，我們無法讓人們到這些中心工作嗎？

Yes, Gary Smart.You know, I would say. So I don't know that I would say it's because the economy is strong that we can't get people to work. It's just, you know, there's a lot as new centres have grown over time, they've, they've kind of picked and pulled from their competitors and it's just become more competitive to get access to that labour.

是的，加里·斯馬特。所以我不知道我會說是因為經濟強勁，所以我們無法讓人們工作。只是，你知道，隨著時間的推移，新的中心不斷成長，他們從競爭對手那裡挑选和拉動，而獲得這些勞動力的競爭變得更加激烈。

Okay. And then switching over to the specialty business or the patient affordability business. Could you give us an idea of as you size the market? How big is it for the services that you provide?

好的。然後轉向專業業務或患者負擔能力業務。您能否為我們介紹一下您對市場的評估？你們提供的服務有多大？

Yeah, I think the last call we covered a little bit of this. I think our conservative estimate that we're looking at right now, we consider this to be north of $1.5 billion. So, you know, and again, that's where we really have to work hard to piece together some numbers. But that's where we're pretty confident saying that we feel like this TAM is north of $500 million.

是的，我想我們上次的電話會議對此進行了一些討論。我認為我們目前的保守估計是超過 15 億美元。所以，你知道，這就是我們真正必須努力拼湊一些數字的地方。但我們非常有信心地說，我們認為 TAM 的價值超過 5 億美元。

So, is this all this market right now? Is this a situation where you're winning this business through competitive takeaways? Are you winning this business because various pharmaceuticals, are you signing up for your program? Because they can see the benefit it gives to them?

那麼，現在的市場就是這樣嗎？在這種情況下，您是否透過競爭性外賣贏得了這項業務？您是否因為各種藥品而贏得了這項業務，您是否簽署了您的計劃？因為他們可以看到它帶給他們的好處？

I mean, it's both, there's, you know, quite a bit of what we're doing is what we call transition programs. So that's a, you know, a product that's already been out there. It's in the marketplace, but the incumbent vendor is either, you know, maybe not living up to the standards that the, the pharma manufacturers looking for or they're not being innovative.

我的意思是，兩者兼而有之，你知道，我們正在做的很多事情就是我們所說的過渡計劃。所以，你知道，這是一個已經上市的產品。它在市場上，但現有的供應商要么，你知道，可能達不到製藥製造商所尋求的標準，要么他們沒有創新。

We have come out with some, you know, with some very innovative stuff in this space. There hasn't really been a lot of innovation for the better part of a decade and the solutions that we're bringing in some areas are I guess the best way to put it, we're light years beyond where some of our competitors are, even though they've been in the space longer.

你知道，我們在這個領域推出了一些非常創新的產品。在十年來的大部分時間裡，並沒有真正出現太多創新，我認為我們在某些​​領域推出的解決方案是最好的表達方式，我們比一些競爭對手領先了好幾光年。中待的時間更長。

So we've got a good mix of, hey, brand new to market drug. Never been seen before. We're going to be the first vendor touching that product and as well as established products. And that's also what's helping to drive the claim volume is that the programs that we're acquiring now have a good mix of transition. So we're not waiting for that drug to ramp up patient acquisition.

所以我們有一個很好的組合，嘿，全新的上市藥物。以前從未見過。我們將成為第一個接觸該產品以及成熟產品的供應商。我們現在收購的項目具有良好的過渡組合，這也有助於推動索賠量。因此，我們不會等待該藥物來增加患者獲得量。

The patient acquisition has already been done over the last two or three years. And so now they're established. And, you know, when we onboard that program, we might immediately on board, you know, 15,000 claims day one, as opposed to, you know, it took them two years to get to 15,000 claims.

過去兩三年已經完成了患者的取得。現在他們已經成立了。而且，你知道，當我們加入該計劃時，我們可能會在第一天就立即加入 15,000 項索賠，而不是，你知道，他們花了兩年時間才達到 15,000 項索賠。

And we, our sales team focuses on both, right. We're not just looking for new to market products and we're not just looking for transitions. It's really part of a rounded out diversification of our revenue streams to where we know there's programs, we're going to bring that have immediate impact on revenue and then there's some that it's just going to take a while to build.

我們的銷售團隊專注於這兩方面，對吧。我們不只是在尋找新的市場產品，我們也不只是在尋找過渡。這實際上是我們收入來源全面多元化的一部分，我們知道有一些項目，我們將帶來對收入產生直接影響的項目，還有一些項目需要一段時間才能建立。

And then just once again, who are some of the other players in this space?

然後再問一次，這個領域的其他參與者是誰？

So we're pretty unique in the space and the fact that we only do patient affordability, there may be one or two other companies out there that are just doing patient affordability. But if you kind of look at the broader market of who else offers the services that we offer, you would see companies like Connective Rx, Trial card, Eversana, those are all I think private equity backed companies.

所以我們在這個領域非常獨特，事實上我們只做病人負擔能力，可能還有一兩家其他公司只做病人負擔能力。但如果你看看更廣闊的市場，看看還有誰提供我們提供的服務，你會看到像 Connective Rx、Trial card、Eversana 這樣的公司，我認為這些都是私募股權支持的公司。

And then Iqvia and McKesson. McKesson has a subsidiary called cover my meds, you know, and both of those companies are, are publicly traded. But again, it's kind of important to mention that those people offer a breadth of services and to the marketplace appear like big box stores. Whereas we offer, you know, expertise in one specific area of this, which is why we think we're being, you know, as effective as we are capturing this business.

然後是伊克維亞和麥克森。麥克森有一家名為「cover my meds」的子公司，你知道，這兩家公司都是公開交易的。但再次強調的是，這些人提供廣泛的服務，並且在市場上看起來就像大型商店。鑑於我們在某一特定領域提供專業知識，這就是為什麼我們認為我們在抓住這項業務方面同樣有效。

Okay. And then lastly, Jeff, is there any reason we have to wait for the 10-Q published to get what that legal expense was for the quarter or that's going to be hit in Q4 or can you give it to us now?

好的。最後，傑夫，我們是否有任何理由必須等待 10-Q 發布才能獲得本季度的法律費用或將在第四季度受到影響，或者您現在可以給我們嗎？

Well, there, there's disclosure in the 10-Q that's coming out tomorrow morning on the settlement piece, which is memory serves me right, just over $600,000 if I recall and that will be paid by our insurance company. They're still finalizing documentation and other things like that. So, without, you know, saying too much, you know, some of that cost is on us. It's six figures and that's about all I'm going to say about it right now.

好吧，明天早上將在 10-Q 中披露關於和解協議的內容，我沒記錯的話，如果我沒記錯的話，金額剛剛超過 600,000 美元，並且將由我們的保險公司支付。他們仍在完成文件和其他類似的事情。因此，無需說太多，您知道，其中部分成本由我們承擔。這是六位數，這就是我現在要說的全部。

Okay. So without these legal fees, it's safe to say we would have got a raise and the range of adjusted EBITDA for the year.

好的。因此，如果沒有這些法律費用，可以肯定地說，我們今年將獲得加薪和調整後的 EBITDA 範圍。

Well, I mean, the range we gave right now, Gary, I mean, the range we gave last quarter was we raised it to $9 million and $10 million.

好吧，我的意思是，我們現在給出的範圍，加里，我的意思是，我們上個季度給出的範圍是我們將其提高到 900 萬美元和 1000 萬美元。

We still feel comfortable coming in that for the full year through the, through this quarter. You know, we are in at $6.7 million. So you kind of can extrapolate back from that. But we'll still be in that range. You, there's a lot, a couple of moving pieces, but there, there will be an expense in there that six figures that was not there when we gave this $9 million to $10 million.

我們仍然對全年到本季的情況感到滿意。你知道，我們的收入是 670 萬美元。所以你可以從中推斷出來。但我們仍然會在這個範圍內。你，有很多，有幾個移動的部分，但是，那裡會有六位數的費用，當我們提供這 900 萬到 1000 萬美元時，這些費用是不存在的。

Jon Hickman, Ladenburg Thalmann

喬恩希克曼、拉登堡塔爾曼

Hi. I was just wondering if you, Jeff, if you could elaborate a little bit on where you think gross margins might go for later this year and into next as the patient affordability stuff becomes 25%- 30% of the business.

你好。我只是想知道，傑夫，您是否可以詳細說明一下，隨著患者負擔能力佔業務的 25% - 30%，您認為今年晚些時候和明年的毛利率可能會走向何方。

Yes. Sure. So for the year, you know, we've given guidance of 54% to 55%. Obviously, we're lower in the second half, first half of the year and higher in the second half of the year because of the percentage of revenue coming from patient affordability. So I think it will be up sequentially over where we were this quarter.

是的。當然。因此，您知道，今年我們給出的指導值為 54% 至 55%。顯然，我們下半年、上半年的收入較低，下半年的收入較高，因為收入的百分比來自患者的負擔能力。所以我認為它會比我們本季的情況連續上升。

And going forward, you know, as that mix changes, I think we could, you know, probably add, you know, 100 to 200 basis point in margin on a blended basis year over year, we just, there's a lot of moving pieces, like I said, patient affordability when the programs launched et cetera, you know what's going on with plasma.

展望未來，隨著這種組合的變化，我認為我們可以，你知道，可能會在混合基礎上逐年增加 100 到 200 個基點的利潤率，我們只是，有很多變動的因素就像我說的，計畫啟動時患者的負擔能力等等，你知道血漿發生了什麼事。

You know, we, you know, we think fourth quarter is going to see some, some impacts from the weather again and employment. So margins in the plasma business were up this, you know, sequentially and up year over year, you know, we're trying to do everything we can to continue to maximize the operating performance out of that business and garner the cash to help deploy that in other growth areas of the of our company. So, but, you know, looking at my crystal ball, that's about all I can say.

你知道，我們認為第四季將再次看到天氣和就業的一些影響。因此，血漿業務的利潤率逐年上升，您知道，我們正在盡一切努力繼續最大限度地提高該業務的營運績效，並獲得現金來幫助部署我們公司的其他成長領域。所以，但是，你知道，看著我的水晶球，我只能說這麼多。

Okay, so one other question, are you starting to attract some attention in the market space because of your unique technology? And are you, is that technology protected somehow patents or is there just secret sauce?

好的，那麼另一個問題是，您是否因為獨特的技術而開始在市場空間中引起一些關注？那你呢，這項技術是否以某種方式受到專利保護，還是只是有秘密武器？

So we have, there's a couple of things, one we talked about this in the past, I mean, we one thing that we do differently than our competitors. We've opened the pricing to our customers and you know, this industry in the past really hasn't been that that transparent on pricing.

所以我們有幾件事，我們過去討論過這一點，我的意思是，我們做的一件事與我們的競爭對手不同。我們已經向客戶開放了定價，你知道，這個行業過去的定價確實沒有那麼透明。

We're very transparent on pricing. Number one, number two, we do have some IP that our competitors don't have, it is not patented per se. But I think the best way to say it is, we're the only ones privy to that technology because we put it in our message. So no one else has it. I don't know, Matt, if there's anything else you want to add.

我們的定價非常透明。第一，第二，我們確實擁有一些競爭對手沒有的智慧財產權，它本身並沒有獲得專利。但我認為最好的說法是，我們是唯一了解該技術的人，因為我們將其放入了我們的訊息中。所以沒有其他人擁有它。我不知道，馬特，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Yeah. No, I mean, there's, it's processes and process patents are, right with problems we did, you know, look at patenting what we were doing and, after some discussion determined it wasn't you know, an appropriate use of funds. So, I think if you look at what we're doing, we've got a group of people here that have worked together to figure out a way to write some algorithms and do some stuff with claims that nobody else figured out.

是的。不，我的意思是，它的流程和流程專利與我們所做的問題是正確的，你知道，看看為我們正在做的事情申請專利，經過一番討論後確定這不是資金的適當使用。所以，我想，如果你看看我們正在做的事情，我們這裡有一群人一起努力找出一種方法來編寫一些演算法，並做一些其他人無法弄清楚的事情。

And that's, that's the industry and that's where we're attracting that interest is in the amount of money we're able to save some of our manufacturer clients that are trying to combat some things that insurance companies and PBMs are doing.

這就是這個行業，這就是我們吸引人們興趣的地方，我們能夠為一些製造商客戶節省多少錢，這些客戶正試圖對抗保險公司和 PBM 正在做的一些事情。

And I'd also say the last thing is that we're really the only company out there that you're going to find that's paying electronic claims via ACH or virtual debit card or paying claims via checks or, I mean, we're a payments company and that's the value that we bring to our customers. So we can pay those claims regardless where historically the industry has been mostly paper based through check and other means.

我還要說的最後一件事是，我們確實是唯一一家透過 ACH 或虛擬借記卡支付電子索賠或透過支票支付索賠的公司，或者，我的意思是，我們是一家支付公司，這就是我們為客戶帶來的價值。因此，無論該行業歷史上在哪裡，我們都可以透過支票和其他方式支付這些索賠。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you. Appreciate it.

謝謝。欣賞它。

Thank you. We reached the end of our question and answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over for any further or closing comments.

謝謝。我們的問答環節結束了。我想重新發言以徵求進一步的意見或結束意見。

Thank you, Kevin and thank you all for joining today's call, your continued support and interest, inspire us to transform health care payments and improve patient access to essential treatments. We look forward to sharing more updates in the coming quarters. Have a great day, everyone. Thank you.

謝謝凱文，感謝大家參加今天的電話會議，你們持續的支持和關注，激勵我們改變醫療保健支付方式並改善患者獲得基本治療的機會。我們期待在未來幾季分享更多更新。祝大家有美好的一天。謝謝。

Thank you. That does conclude today's teleconference and webcast. You may disconnect your line at this time and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

謝謝。今天的電話會議和網路廣播到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路並度過美好的一天。我們感謝您今天的參與。