Paysign Inc (PAYS) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. My name is Shamali, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Paysign, Inc. third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.

午安.我叫沙瑪莉，今天我將擔任你們的會議接線生。在此，我謹代表 Paysign 公司歡迎各位參加 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）提醒各位，本次電話會議正在錄音。

The comments on today's call regarding Paysign's financial results will be on a GAAP basis unless otherwise noted. Paysign's earnings release was disseminated to the SEC earlier today and can be found on the Investor Relations section of our website, paysign.com, which includes reconciliations of non-GAAP measures to GAAP reported amounts.

除非另有說明，今天電話會議上對 Paysign 財務業績的評論將以 GAAP 為基礎。Paysign 的收益報告已於今天稍早分發給美國證券交易委員會 (SEC)，可在我們網站 paysign.com 的投資者關係部分找到，其中包括非 GAAP 指標與 GAAP 報告金額的調整表。

Additionally, as set forth in more detail in the earnings release, I would like to remind everyone that today's call will include forward-looking statements regarding Paysign's future performance. Actual performance could differ materially from these forward-looking statements. Information about the factors that could affect future performance is summarized at the end of Paysign's earnings release in its recent SEC filings.

此外，正如收益報告中更詳細闡述的那樣，我想提醒大家，今天的電話會議將包含有關 Paysign 未來業績的前瞻性陳述。實際業績可能與這些前瞻性陳述有重大差異。有關可能影響未來業績的因素的資訊總結在 Paysign 最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中，位於其收益報告的末尾。

Lastly, a replay of this call will be available until February 12, 2026. Please see Paysign's third quarter 2025 earnings call announcement for details on how to access the replay.

最後，本次電話會議的錄音回放將保留至 2026 年 2 月 12 日。有關如何收聽重播的詳細信息，請參閱 Paysign 發布的 2025 年第三季財報電話會議公告。

It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Mark Newcomer, President and CEO. Please go ahead.

現在我很高興將電話轉交給總裁兼執行長馬克紐科默先生。請繼續。

Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. I appreciate you joining us as we review our third quarter 2025 results. I'm Mark Newcomer, President and CEO of Paysign. Joining me today is our CFO, Jeff Baker. Also on the call are Matt Turner, President of Patient Affordability; and Matt Lanford, our Chief Payments Officer, both of whom will be available for Q&A following our prepared remarks.

謝謝大家，大家下午好。感謝您參加我們2025年第三季業績回顧會議。我是 Paysign 的總裁兼執行長 Mark Newcomer。今天和我一起的是我們的財務長傑夫貝克。參加此次電話會議的還有患者負擔能力總裁馬特·特納和我們的首席支付官馬特·蘭福德，他們二位將在我們的準備好的發言結束後回答問題。

I'm pleased to report another outstanding quarter of growth for Paysign. Earlier today, we announced record revenue of $21.6 million, up 41.6% year-over-year. Adjusted EBITDA reached a record $5 million, an increase of 78%, and net income rose 54% to $2.2 million or $0.04 per fully diluted share. Alongside these financial results, we achieved meaningful operational efficiencies that Jeff will discuss in more detail shortly.

我很高興地宣布，Paysign 又迎來了一個出色的季度成長。今天早些時候，我們宣布營收創下歷史新高，達到 2,160 萬美元，年增 41.6%。調整後 EBITDA 達到創紀錄的 500 萬美元，成長 78%；淨利成長 54% 至 220 萬美元，即每股完全稀釋收益 0.04 美元。除了這些財務表現之外，我們還實現了顯著的營運效率提升，傑夫稍後將對此進行更詳細的討論。

Our Patient Affordability business continues its exceptional growth trajectory, generating $7.9 million in revenue, up 142% from the prior year's quarter. We ended the quarter with 105 active programs and expect to add 20 to 30 more by year-end, including 13 launched in October. This would bring us to a 125 to 135 active programs by the end of the year compared to 76 at the end of 2024, a clear indicator of our sustained momentum and future growth potential.

我們的患者負擔能力業務繼續保持卓越的成長勢頭，創造了 790 萬美元的收入，比去年同期增長了 142%。本季末，我們共有 105 個活躍項目，預計到年底將新增 20 至 30 個項目，其中包括 10 月啟動的 13 個項目。這將使我們在今年年底的活躍項目數量達到 125 至 135 個，而 2024 年底則為 76 個，這清楚地表明了我們持續的發展勢頭和未來的成長潛力。

During the quarter, we announced the opening of our new 30,000 square foot patient support center, a major milestone for Paysign. This expansion quadruples our support capacity, enabling us to meet growing demand and deliver an exceptional service experience for our clients, patients and providers. This facility also supports a growing high-value offering, dedicated patient support representatives, which has become increasingly popular across our client base.

本季度，我們宣布開設了新的 30,000 平方英尺的患者支援中心，這是 Paysign 的一個重要里程碑。此次擴建使我們的支援能力提高了四倍，使我們能夠滿足不斷增長的需求，並為我們的客戶、患者和醫療服務提供者提供卓越的服務體驗。該設施還支援一項日益增長的高價值服務——專門的患者支援代表，這項服務在我們的客戶群中越來越受歡迎。

Our growth is driven by comprehensive product offerings, best-in-class service, transparent pricing and our proprietary dynamic business rules technology. By integrating dynamic business rules into the traditional commoditized pharmacy claims process, our pharmaceutical clients save hundreds of millions of dollars while unlocking new revenue streams across the patient affordability ecosystem.

我們憑藉全面的產品供應、一流的服務、透明的定價以及我們專有的動態業務規則技術實現了成長。透過將動態業務規則整合到傳統的商品化藥房索賠流程中，我們的製藥客戶節省了數億美元，同時在整個患者負擔能力生態系統中開闢了新的收入來源。

Our success in specialty pharmaceutical programs continues to open doors in the retail pharmaceutical space were higher claims volumes and multiproduct manufacturer engagements present significant opportunities. Expanding our presence in this area remains a top priority of our sales teams.

我們在專業藥品項目方面的成功不斷為我們打開零售藥品領域的大門，更高的索賠量和多產品製造商合作帶來了巨大的機會。擴大我們在該地區的業務仍然是我們銷售團隊的首要任務。

Our pipeline remains robust, fueled by both new and existing clients across retail and specialty. We anticipate activity from new drug launches and transition programs already in the queue with sales cycle holding steady at roughly 90 days, a strong signal of consistent execution and demand.

我們的業務通路依然強勁，這得益於零售和專業領域的新舊客戶的持續支持。我們預計新藥上市和已在排隊等候的過渡項目將帶來銷售活動，銷售週期將穩定在 90 天左右，這強烈表明了持續的執行力和需求。

Our mission extends well beyond payments. We're redefining how financial support is delivered across health care, removing cost barriers to treatment and generating measurable savings for patients and our pharmaceutical partners alike. The continued strength of our patient affordability business underscores the power and scalability of our model.

我們的使命遠不止於支付。我們正在重新定義醫療保健領域的財務支持方式，消除治療成本障礙，並為患者和我們的製藥合作夥伴創造可衡量的節省。我們患者負擔能力業務的持續強勁表現，凸顯了我們模式的強大實力和可擴展性。

Turning to our plasma donor compensation business. Revenue grew 12.4% year-over-year to a record $12.9 million, despite a net loss of 12 centers, leaving us with a total of 595 active centers at quarter end. As we have previously discussed, the plasma industry continues to face an oversupply of sourced plasma, which we expect to normalize in the first half of 2026.

接下來談談我們的血漿捐獻者補償業務。儘管淨減少了 12 個中心，但營收仍年增 12.4%，達到創紀錄的 1,290 萬美元，截至季末，我們共有 595 個活躍中心。正如我們之前討論過的，血漿產業繼續面臨血漿供應過剩的問題，我們預計這種情況將在 2026 年上半年得到緩解。

Encouragingly, average donor compensation per donation increased during the quarter, and that trend is carried into Q4. Combined with positive client discussions, we see potential for organic growth at the center level sooner than previously anticipated.

令人鼓舞的是，本季捐贈者平均每次捐款的補償金有所增加，而且這一趨勢延續到了第四季度。結合與客戶的積極溝通，我們看到中心層面的自然成長潛力比之前預期的要大。

We are executing on our strategy to expand our role in the blood and plasma ecosystem, evolving from a trusted payments provider to a technology partner. Our software-as-a-service engagement platform, which includes a donor app, plasma-specific CRM and the donor management system, also known as a Blood Establishment Computer System, or BECS, continues to generate strong interest both domestically and internationally.

我們正在執行擴大我們在血液和血漿生態系統中作用的策略，從值得信賴的支付提供者發展成為技術合作夥伴。我們的軟體即服務互動平台，包括捐贈者應用程式、血漿專用客戶關係管理系統和捐贈者管理系統（也稱為血液機構電腦系統或 BECS），在國內和國際上持續引起濃厚的興趣。

As we await FDA 510(k) clearance for the BECS, we are actively showcasing the platform to the blood and plasma industry who are eager to find efficient user-friendly, cost-effective alternatives to the current offerings. The reception has been overwhelmingly positive, reinforcing our confidence in the long-term opportunity for this business line.

在我們等待 FDA 510(k) 對 BECS 的批准之際，我們正在積極向血液和血漿行業展示該平台，他們渴望找到高效、用戶友好、經濟高效的替代方案來取代當前的產品。市場反應非常積極，這增強了我們對該業務線長期發展前景的信心。

In summary, Q3 was a stellar quarter of strong execution and innovation. We're scaling efficiently, expanding into new markets and delivering transformative value across both patient affordability and plasma, two sectors where we're redefining expectations and disrupting the status quo.

總而言之，第三季是執行力強、創新能力突出的優秀季度。我們正在有效地擴大規模，拓展到新市場，並在患者負擔能力和血漿這兩個領域帶來變革性的價值，我們正在重新定義預期並打破現狀。

I'm incredibly proud of our team's continued focus and discipline. Their dedication to delivering results with purpose continues to drive our momentum. Looking ahead, we remain confident in our growth trajectory and firmly committed to building long-term value for our shareholders.

我為我們團隊持續的專注和自律感到無比自豪。他們致力於以目標為導向取得成果，而這種精神持續推動著我們的發展勢頭。展望未來，我們對自身的成長軌跡依然充滿信心，並堅定致力於為股東創造長期價值。

With that, I'll turn it over to Jeff for a closer look at the financials.

接下來，我會把工作交給傑夫，讓他更詳細地看一下財務數據。

Thank you, Mark. Good afternoon, everyone. As Mark said, we had another strong quarter as we continue to build momentum heading into 2026. We had some nice wins in our patient affordability business from both new relationships bringing us multiple programs to existing customers bringing us additional programs.

謝謝你，馬克。大家下午好。正如馬克所說，我們又迎來了一個強勁的季度，並繼續保持著邁向 2026 年的良好勢頭。我們在病患負擔能力業務方面取得了一些不錯的成果，一方面透過與新客戶的合作，他們為我們帶來了多個專案；另一方面，現有客戶也為我們帶來了更多專案。

Our plasma business posted year-over-year growth during the quarter with the additions of the new centers we won in the second quarter. We exited the quarter with 595 active plasma centers and 105 active patient affordability programs. More importantly, we ended October with 118 active patient affordability programs with additional programs being added weekly.

由於我們在第二季度贏得了新的中心，我們的血漿業務在本季度實現了同比增長。本季末，我們有 595 個活躍的血漿中心和 105 個活躍的患者負擔能力計劃。更重要的是，截至 10 月底，我們共有 118 個活躍的患者負擔能力計劃，並且每週都在增加新的計劃。

Our consolidated gross profit margins continue to improve on a year-over-year basis despite the new plasma centers weighing on the margin due to their lack of maturity. We expect improvement from these levels as the new centers mature over the next six to nine months. We also expect improvement in our consolidated gross profit margins as we ramp up our new customer service contact center that we opened in September.

儘管新的血漿中心由於缺乏成熟度而對利潤率造成了壓力，但我們的綜合毛利率仍逐年提高。我們預計隨著新中心在未來六到九個月內逐步成熟，這些水準將會有所改善。隨著我們9月開設的新客戶服務聯絡中心的逐步投入運營，我們預計合併毛利率也將有所提高。

As our business continues to grow, and we continue to make the necessary investments in people and infrastructure to ensure the success of our growing business, we expect our operating margins and adjusted EBITDA margins to continue to expand on a year-over-year basis, demonstrating the operating leverage inherent in our business.

隨著我們業務的持續成長，以及我們不斷對人員和基礎設施進行必要的投資以確保我們不斷發展的業務取得成功，我們預計我們的營業利潤率和調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率將繼續逐年擴大，這體現了我們業務固有的經營槓桿作用。

In summary, we could not be more excited about the prospects of our business for the remainder of this year and throughout 2026. I encourage everyone to read our 10-Q for more details about our financial results, which is expected to be filed tomorrow morning before the market opens.

總而言之，我們對今年剩餘時間和整個 2026 年的業務前景感到無比興奮。我鼓勵大家閱讀我們的 10-Q 表格，以了解更多關於我們財務業績的詳細信息，該表格預計將於明天早上市場開盤前提交。

Now turning your attention to the results for the third quarter. Revenue and adjusted EBITDA results exceeded the guidance we provided last quarter. Third quarter 2025 total revenues of $21.6 million increased $6.3 million or 41.6% and adjusted EBITDA of $5 million increased $2.2 million or 78.1%.

現在讓我們來看看第三季的業績。營收和調整後 EBITDA 業績均超出我們上季度給出的預期。2025 年第三季總營收為 2,160 萬美元，成長 630 萬美元，增幅 41.6%；調整後 EBITDA 為 500 萬美元，成長 220 萬美元，增幅 78.1%。

Plasma revenue increased 12.4% to $12.9 million, while our revenue per plasma center declined to $7,122 as the new plasma centers added in the second quarter have not reached full maturity and our legacy centers continue to be impacted by the industry-wide oversupply of plasma.

血漿收入增長 12.4% 至 1290 萬美元，而每個血漿中心的收入下降至 7122 美元，因為第二季度新增的血漿中心尚未完全成熟，而我們的老牌中心繼續受到整個行業血漿供應過剩的影響。

Gross dollars loaded to cards increased 21%. Total number of loads increased 19.3% and gross spend volume increased 19.2%, due mainly to the new centers added in the second quarter.

儲值到卡片上的總額增加了 21%。由於第二季新增了多家中心，總交易量增加了 19.3%，總消費量增加了 19.2%。

Patient affordability revenues increased 142% to $7.9 million and accounted for 36.7% of quarterly revenues. This is a significant increase from the 21.5% of revenue that pharma represented just during the same period last year. We added eight net programs exiting the quarter with 105 pharma patient affordability programs and grew the number of claims processed by over 60% versus the same period last year.

患者負擔能力收入成長了 142%，達到 790 萬美元，佔季度收入的 36.7%。與去年同期醫藥行業佔總收入的 21.5% 相比，這是一個顯著的增長。本季末，我們新增了 8 個淨項目，共有 105 個藥品患者負擔能力項目，處理的索賠數量比去年同期增加了 60% 以上。

Gross profit margin for the quarter improved 72 basis points to 56.3%. SG&A, excluding depreciation and amortization and stock-based compensation improved by 410 basis points to 32.9% of revenue, while total operating expenses improved by 210 basis points to 48.9% of revenue.

本季毛利率提高 72 個基點至 56.3%。不包括折舊、攤提和股票選擇權費用的銷售、一般及行政費用佔收入的比例下降了 410 個基點，達到 32.9%；而總營運費用佔收入的比例下降了 210 個基點，達到 48.9%。

Having made significant investments in our employee base over the past year to support the continued growth in our businesses, compensation and benefits increased 20.3% to $7.2 million. We exited this quarter with 222 employees versus 162 during the same period last year. Stock compensation increased 32% to $1.3 million related to the issuance of additional restricted stock units for new hires and employee retention.

過去一年，我們對員工隊伍進行了大量投資，以支持業務的持續成長，因此薪資和福利成長了 20.3%，達到 720 萬美元。本季末，我們的員工人數為 222 人，而去年同期為 162 人。股票補償增加了 32%，達到 130 萬美元，這與為新員工和留住現有員工而發行的額外限制性股票單位有關。

Depreciation and amortization expense increased 39.9% to $2.2 million due primarily to the amortization of continued enhancements in our technology platform.

由於技術平台持續改進的攤銷，折舊和攤提費用增加了 39.9%，達到 220 萬美元。

Net income for the quarter was $2.2 million or $0.04 per fully diluted share versus $1.4 million or $0.03 per fully diluted share for the same period last year. Positively impacting net income was a lower income tax provision, resulting mainly from the recent changes in tax code, offset by lower net interest income mainly related to the implied interest expense of future cash payments for the Gamma acquisition.

本季淨利為 220 萬美元，即每股完全稀釋收益 0.04 美元，而去年同期淨利為 140 萬美元，即每股完全稀釋收益 0.03 美元。對淨收入產生正面影響的是所得稅準備金的降低，這主要是由於稅法的近期變化所致；但淨利息收入的降低抵消了這一影響，這主要是由於收購 Gamma 未來現金支付的隱含利息支出所致。

Third quarter adjusted EBITDA, which is a non-GAAP measure that adds back stock compensation to EBITDA, was $5 million or $0.08 per diluted share versus $2.8 million or $0.05 per diluted share for the same period last year. The fully diluted share count for the quarter is used in calculating the per share amounts was 61.8 million and 56.1 million, respectively, an increase of 5.7 million shares.

第三季調整後 EBITDA（一項非 GAAP 指標，將股票補償加回 EBITDA）為 500 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.08 美元，而去年同期為 280 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.05 美元。本季完全稀釋後的股份數量用於計算每股金額，分別為 6,180 萬股和 5,610 萬股，增加了 570 萬股。

Regarding the health of our company, we exited the quarter with an adjusted unrestricted cash balance of $16.9 million and zero debt as we generated strong operating cash flow and continued to experience operational benefits of our Gamma acquisition.

關於公司健康狀況，本季末，我們調整後的非限制性現金餘額為 1,690 萬美元，債務為零，因為我們產生了強勁的營運現金流，並繼續享受收購 Gamma 帶來的營運效益。

Just a reminder, the adjustment to our unrestricted cash balances reflects the short-term impact of our account receivable and account payable balances related to our pharma patient affordability business.

再次提醒，我們調整了非限制性現金餘額，以反映與我們的藥品患者負擔能力業務相關的應收帳款和應付帳款餘額的短期影響。

Now turning your attention to our revised guidance for 2025, which now incorporates Q3 actuals. We are raising our revenue guidance to a range of $80.5 million to $81.5 million, reflecting year-over-year growth of 38.7% at the midpoint.

現在請大家關注我們修訂後的 2025 年業績指引，其中已納入了第三季的實際數據。我們將營收預期上調至 8,050 萬美元至 8,150 萬美元之間，其中數值反映出年增 38.7%。

Plasma is estimated to make up approximately 57% of total revenue, representing a modest year-over-year growth, while pharma patient affordability revenue is expected to make up approximately 41% of total revenue, representing year-over-year growth of over 155%.

血漿業務預計佔總收入的約 57%，年成長幅度不大；而藥品患者負擔能力收入預計將佔總收入的約 41%，較去年同期成長超過 155%。

Full year gross profit margins are expected to be approximately 60%. We expect operating expenses to be between $41.5 million and $42.5 million with depreciation and amortization expense of approximately $8.4 million and stock-based compensation of approximately $4.3 million. We expect interest income to be approximately $2.6 million, our full year tax rate to be 18.7%, and our fully diluted share count to be 59.76 million shares.

預計全年毛利率約 60%。我們預計營運費用將在 4,150 萬美元至 4,250 萬美元之間，其中折舊和攤提費用約為 840 萬美元，股票選擇權費用約為 430 萬美元。我們預計利息收入約為 260 萬美元，全年稅率為 18.7%，完全稀釋後的股份數量為 5,976 萬股。

Taking all the factors above into consideration, we have raised our net income estimates to be between $7 million and $8 million for the year or $0.12 to $0.13 per diluted share. Adjusted EBITDA is now expected to be in the range of $19 million to $20 million or $0.32 to $0.34 per diluted share.

綜合以上所有因素，我們將全年淨利預期上調至 700 萬至 800 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.12 至 0.13 美元。調整後 EBITDA 預計在 1,900 萬美元至 2,000 萬美元之間，即每股攤薄收益 0.32 美元至 0.34 美元。

With that, I would like to turn the call back over to the moderator for questions and answers.

接下來，我將通話交還給主持人，由他來回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Jacob Stephan, Lake Street Capital Markets.

（操作說明）Jacob Stephan，Lake Street Capital Markets。

Congrats on a nice quarter here. Maybe just first, wondering if you could help us think through some of the comments Mark made on retail versus specialty pharmacy. Do you have a current mix number you maybe could give us? Or I mean, maybe you could talk through pipeline mix a little bit as well between the two?

恭喜你本季業績不錯。首先，我們想請您幫我們思考 Mark 關於零售藥局與專科藥局的一些評論。您能否提供您目前的混音編號？或者我的意思是，你們兩個或許也可以稍微談談管道混合的問題？

This is Matt Turner. We don't -- I don't have that information in front of me. We can -- Jeff can follow back up with you on that. And we'd probably want to give more of a -- maybe a percentage there. But we do have a decent mix right now of retail versus specialty.

這是馬特·特納。我們沒有——我手頭上沒有這些資訊。我們可以—傑夫可以就此事與您聯繫。我們可能想投入更多——也許佔一定比例。但目前我們的零售店和專賣店的比例還不錯。

As you look at the pipeline moving into next year, there is the addition of more retail programs. I don't know the exact number if you were to look at overall program count. But it's a higher percentage moving into next year in the pipeline, and that would kind of be all stages of the pipeline that would have a retail versus a specialty component.

展望明年的發展規劃，我們將增加更多零售項目。如果只看節目總數，我不知道確切的數字。但到明年，這個比例將會更高，而且這幾乎涵蓋了所有階段的零售產品，而不是專賣產品。

Okay. Got it. Maybe -- so it sounds like this is a little bit bigger opportunity, maybe higher claims volumes on the retail side. Maybe you could just kind of elaborate on that a little bit?

好的。知道了。或許——聽起來這似乎是一個更大的機會，零售方面的索賠量可能會更高。能否再詳細解釋一下？

Yes. So retail products due to their cost and the propensity are to be prescribed because they're dealing with a lot more, what I would call, generic types of ailments. You tend to see just a higher percentage of people be prescribed those drugs. Sometimes it's for acute issues, sometimes it's for chronic. If you were to look at the retail programs right now that we have, we have some in like the pulmonary space, so some inhalers, things like that.

是的。因此，零售產品由於其成本和傾向性，更容易被處方，因為它們處理的是更多我稱之為「通用類型疾病」的問題。你會發現，服用這些藥物的人的比例往往較高。有時是治療急性疾病，有時是治療慢性疾病。如果你看我們目前的零售項目，你會發現我們有一些針對肺部疾病的治療項目，像是吸入器之類的。

There's a component of people who will be written inhaler because they have asthma and they're going to have an inhaler every day for the rest of their life, and then you'll have people that come down with bronchitis, and they'll use it for a month or two and then they're off of it.

一部分人因為患有氣喘而被開立吸入器處方，他們餘生每天都需要使用吸入器；而另一部分人患上支氣管炎，他們會使用吸入器一兩個月，然後就可以停用了。

So the mix that you see of utilization tends to be a little bit higher, so you get a higher patient count inside of those programs, whereas the specialty drug, a lot of times, the number of people that are taking that drug is obviously lower because it's a specialty product.

因此，你看到的藥物利用率往往略高一些，所以這些項目中的患者數量也比較多；而對於專科藥物，很多時候，服用該藥物的人數顯然較少，因為它是一種專科產品。

And you don't typically get an acute indication for a specialty drug that we would represent or that would have a program with us. So it's just the ability to onboard more patients in the programs tend to be higher with retail products than it does with specialty.

通常情況下，你不會遇到需要我們代理或與我們合作的專科藥物的急性適應症。因此，零售產品比專科產品更容易吸引更多患者加入專案。

So that's why you'll see the increased claim volumes as well as the offer value on a retail product is going to be substantially different. So patients will not necessarily burn through their out-of-pocket max on a retail product like they would on a specialty product. The specialty product is $25,000 and a patient has a $7,000 out-of-pocket max.

所以這就是為什麼你會看到索賠數量增加，以及零售產品的報價價值將發生顯著變化的原因。因此，患者不一定會像購買專科藥品那樣，把自付費用上限全部花在零售藥品上。該特殊產品的價格為 25,000 美元，患者自付費用上限為 7,000 美元。

They can get through their entire out-of-pocket maximum in a couple of bills, whereas with a retail product where the offer value is, say, $200 or $300, they could use that 12 times a year. So instead of only getting two or three claims for that patient in the specialty space, we would get 12 in the retail space.

他們可能在幾張帳單內就花光了全部自付費用上限，而如果零售產品的價值是 200 或 300 美元，他們一年可以使用 12 次。因此，在專科領域，我們可能只能為該患者獲得兩到三份索賠，而在零售領域，我們卻能獲得 12 份索賠。

Okay. Got it. That's very helpful. Maybe second one, Jeff, you kind of talked a little bit about gross profit margins expanding as you know the patient success center continues to ramp. I'm wondering if you could kind of help us think through current capacity utilized and maybe where you expect to be with these 22-ish new centers online in the second half or in the last quarter here.

好的。知道了。那很有幫助。傑夫，或許第二個問題是，你剛才稍微談到了隨著病患成功中心的不斷發展，毛利率也不斷擴大。我想請您幫我們分析一下目前的產能利用情況，以及您預計在下半年或最後一個季度，隨著這 22 個左右新中心上線，產能利用情況會如何。

Well, this -- I think you're kind of mixing the centers. We didn't say there would be 22. We're saying in the second half of the year on the patient affordability pharma side, where we would have between 20 and 30. The centers, we don't really -- we're going into the end of the year. I don't really expect those to change too much, plus or minus a couple here or there. And -- but the comment about the maturity of those relates to those centers coming up to the average of our core base.

嗯，我覺得你把中心搞混了。我們沒說過會有22個。我們說，在今年下半年，在患者負擔能力方面，藥品方面，我們將達到 20 到 30。這些中心，我們其實沒有──我們即將進入年底。我預計這些不會有太大變化，頂多也就是一兩個小幅調整。但是——關於這些中心成熟度的評論與這些中心達到我們核心基礎的平均水平有關。

So there are fees that typically don't kick in for 90-plus days afterwards where we start to see the benefit of a fully mature centers. The centers have been open for quite some time. But from our revenue opportunity, it just takes time for them to come through, for example, inactivity fees or things of that nature. So as those become more mature, as we see -- also see a return to growth, et cetera, I expect the gross profit margins in the plasma business to improve from where they were this quarter.

因此，有些費用通常在 90 多天後才會開始生效，而在此期間，我們才能開始看到成熟中心的優勢。這些中心已經開放一段時間了。但就我們的收入機會而言，他們需要時間來兌現承諾，例如，不活躍帳戶費用或類似費用。因此，隨著這些業務日趨成熟，正如我們所看到的——也看到了成長的恢復等等，我預計血漿業務的毛利率將比本季度有所改善。

Okay. Got it. And then maybe just last one. I think when you kind of run the numbers as you look at Q4 here and what you're communicating with pharma revenue growth, it implies a sequential step down in average quarterly revenue per program. Maybe you could kind of help us think through what the difference is between last year when it was actually a sequential step-up from Q3 to Q4 and maybe contrast that with what you see this year?

好的。知道了。然後或許就只剩下最後一個了。我認為，當你仔細分析第四季度的數據以及你所說的醫藥收入成長時，你會發現，這意味著每個項目的平均季度收入正在逐步下降。或許您可以幫我們分析一下，去年第三季到第四季其實是逐年成長，而今年的情況與去年有何不同，並進行比較？

Yes. I mean last year, we had more newer programs with fewer claims. Now this year, we have a lot more programs with claims and the claims will fall off in the second half of the year. It's a seasonal business, as Matt alluded to earlier, when everything resets. So that's the difference.

是的。我的意思是，去年我們有更多新項目，索賠也更少。今年，我們有更多項目需要處理索賠，但索賠數量將在下半年下降。正如馬特之前提到的那樣，這是一個季節性行業，一切都會重新開始。這就是差別所在。

We just have -- we have more -- we have -- it's a mix issue where the mix is more geared towards claims versus initial launch fees. And the other thing I would say, Jacob, is you can't look, but I appreciate you calling this out. You cannot look sequentially at these numbers. you have to look on a year-over-year basis. So last year, we did $56,700 in the fourth quarter revenue per program.

我們現在的情況是——我們還有更多——這是一個組合問題，其中組合更傾向於索賠而不是初始啟動費用。還有一件事我想說，雅各布，雖然你不能看，但我很感謝你指出這一點。你不能按順序查看這些數字，必須按年查看。所以去年第四季度，我們每個專案的收入為 56,700 美元。

That will be up year-over-year versus last year. This year, we did in the third quarter, $75,434. Last year, we did just under $50,000. So you have to look at this business on a year-over-year basis. Sequential numbers are absolutely meaningless.

這將比去年​​同期有所增長。今年第三季度，我們實現了 75,434 美元。去年，我們的收入略低於 5 萬美元。所以你必須逐年看待這項業務。連續的數字完全沒有意義。

Gary Prestopino, Barrington Research.

Gary Prestopino，巴林頓研究公司。

Is there -- well, first of all, could you kind of tell us what a mature program would do in an average revenue basis versus you say, $75,000 now, but you've got -- obviously got some programs that are just coming into the mix or have just coming in the mix. What does the mature program do per quarter?

首先，您能否告訴我們，一個成熟的項目在平均收入方面會有什麼變化，例如現在的收入是 75,000 美元，但顯然您也有一些項目剛進入市場或已經進入市場。成熟課程每季包含哪些內容？

Gary, it really depends. I don't mean to skip or overlook the question, but I mean, we have programs that do $2,000 a month, and we have programs that do 20x that. It just -- it really depends on the program. So when it's mature, I mean we see it coming into the numbers. And there are things that a drug may do it may get another indication, which causes that the claims to go up on a year-over-year basis.

加里，這真的要看情況。我無意忽略或迴避這個問題，但我的意思是，我們有些項目每月收入 2000 美元，而有些項目的收入是它的 20 倍。這真的取決於具體程序。所以當它成熟的時候，我的意思是，我們會看到它體現在數據上。有些藥物可能會產生新的適應症，導致索賠數量逐年增加。

Some of the programs is just pretty much flat year-over-year once it becomes mature, it's really hard to say. But to say what a mature program is, it's too variable.

有些項目一旦成熟，每年的發展就基本持平，很難說具體情況如何。但要說一個成熟的專案是什麼，那就太不確定了。

Well, how about this, is there a difference between a specialty versus just a regular retail program in terms of the average revenues?

那麼，就平均收入而言，專賣店和一般零售店之間是否有差異？

Gary, this is Matt. So when you look at the different product suites that those programs would use, we would typically value a specialty program as being worth more money provided it has the appropriate indications. But again, it's all in the mix, right? So I can name off 20 drugs right now that you've never once heard of, right? You've never heard of these drugs.

加里，我是馬特。因此，當您查看這些項目將使用的不同產品組合時，我們通常會認為，如果一個專業項目具有適當的適應症，那麼它的價值就更高。但話說回來，這一切都在各種因素的綜合作用下，對吧？所以我現在可以列舉 20 種你從未聽過的藥物，對吧？你從未聽過這些藥物。

Then I could name off five that you've heard of. And you'd be like, oh, if you have that drug because I've seen 500 TV ads for it, you've got to be making a ton of money with that drug.

那我就可以列舉出五個你聽過的例子。你可能會想，哦，如果你有那種藥，因為我已經看過 500 個關於它的電視廣告了，那你肯定靠那種藥賺了很多錢。

And that could be right or it could be wrong. It depends on the patient population of that drug. How old are they? They're mostly on Medicare. They're mostly own Medicaid.

這或許是對的，或許是錯的。這取決於該藥物的目標患者群體。他們多大了？他們大多享有聯邦醫療保險（Medicare）。他們大多擁有自己的醫療補助計劃。

It's a very complex thing to look at this and say, okay, well, I've heard of insert name of giant drug and you think of the golf people talking about their psoriatic arthritis. And you think, oh, well, that's a great drug. Yes, that could be because that's not impacting the lion's share of the patients taking that drug aren't 70 years old on Medicare. So that could be a good one.

要看待這個問題，如果說“好吧，我聽說過某知名藥物”，然後想到高爾夫球手談論他們的銀屑病關節炎，那將是一件非常複雜的事情。然後你會想，哦，那是一種很棒的藥物。是的，這可能是因為服用該藥物的絕大多數患者並非70歲以上的聯邦醫療保險受益人。所以這可能是個不錯的選擇。

But then I bring up other drugs that you've heard about that are cancer therapies and -- or for Alzheimer's. And even though those are huge drugs for their companies, right, for the manufacturer, they're not going to make us any money. So you really have to look at how big a program is going to be based on what's the patient population, right, what's the cohort of the patient population that can utilize our products and then what other additional pieces can we stack on top of that.

但是，我又提到了其他一些你可能聽說過的藥物，例如癌症治療藥物和/或阿茲海默症治療藥物。即使這些藥物對他們的公司來說是巨大的財富，對吧？但對製造商來說，它們並不會為我們帶來任何利潤。所以，你真的需要根據患者群體來考慮一個專案的規模，對吧？哪些患者群可以使用我們的產品？然後我們還可以在此基礎上添加哪些其他內容？

Mark talked about dynamic business rules. That's in the specialty space. We currently don't have that active on any of our retail programs. So a specialty program utilizing dynamic business rules is going to be far more profitable to us and have higher top line revenue numbers than a retail program that could be doing 10x the claim book. So it's a -- you really have to understand the drug specifically, their patient populations, the cohorts of those patients that would potentially utilize co-pay inside of the overall -- the overall numbers of the patients.

馬克談到了動態業務規則。那屬於專業領域。目前我們的任何零售項目中都沒有啟用該功能。因此，採用動態業務規則的專案計劃對我們來說將比零售計劃更有利可圖，並且能帶來更高的總收入，而零售計劃的理賠量可能是其 10 倍。所以，你必須真正了解這種藥物的具體情況、患者群體、以及可能在總體患者數量中使用共同支付的患者群體。

Okay. I mean, that's helpful. And that you can't really peg a drug to -- or it's hard for us to ascertain what's going to add way. Are you just on a drug basis or a program basis or retail versus specialty? As Jeff said, just look at the average revenue program quarter-over-quarter, right?

好的。我的意思是，這很有幫助。而且你很難將某種藥物與某種症狀聯繫起來——或者說，我們很難確定哪種藥物會帶來什麼好處。您是按藥品收費還是按項目收費，或按零售通路收費還是按專賣通路收費？正如傑夫所說，只需看看每個季度的平均收入項目，對吧？

Yes. And I think, look, if we were able to -- if our clients would let us just come out and tell you, we won this brand I think you guys would be in a much better situation, right? Because you'd say, oh, seeing it on TV. Can the people that take that drug or most of them are going to be under 65. So hey, Paysign is probably going to do really well with that. Or hey, this is an oncology product, and it's tiered towards breast cancer.

是的。我認為，如果我們能夠——如果我們的客戶允許我們直接告訴你們，我們贏得了這個品牌，我想你們的情況會好得多，對吧？因為你會說，哦，我在電視上看到的。服用這種藥物的人，或者說他們中的大多數，年齡都在 65 歲以下。所以，Paysign 在這方面可能會發展得很好。或者，嘿，這是一款腫瘤治療產品，專門針對乳癌。

So in that instance, hey, we're probably going to do really well with that program.

所以，在這種情況下，嘿，我們這個專案很可能會取得非常好的效果。

And you can also look at the information coming out of the manufacturers to far as how big is that drug, how much revenue are they generating from it. Unfortunately, we don't -- we can't do that. Almost every one of our master services agreements requires us to not disclose who our clients are and the brands that we represent.

你也可以查看製造商發布的信息，了解這種藥物的市場規模有多大，他們從中獲得了多少收入。很遺憾，我們不能──我們做不到。幾乎我們所有的總服務協議都要求我們不要透露我們的客戶是誰以及我們所代表的品牌。

And it's certainly not for trying on our part to get them to allow us to talk about those brands. And I think if you look back at previous earnings calls where we've been able to discuss specific brands or discuss specific clients, if you kind of ChatGPT some questions out there, you might be able to get a better indication of the types of programs that we have running right now.

當然，這絕對不是因為我們試圖讓他們允許我們談論這些品牌。我認為，如果你回顧一下我們之前的財報電話會議，我們曾經討論過具體的品牌或具體的客戶，如果你在ChatGPT上提出一些問題，你或許就能更好地了解我們目前正在進行的項目類型。

Okay. And then just -- Mark, you mentioned something about this BECS, which I hadn't heard of that at all. So maybe you could go into that and how that's going to help you going forward?

好的。然後——馬克，你提到了BECS，我之前完全沒聽過。所以，或許你可以深入探討一下，以及這將如何幫助你未來的發展？

Yes. That is what we refer to as it's a Blood Establishment Computer System or a BECS, really a donor management system, and it allows us to place into the plasma blood space. We have a suite of products that we have built out a software as a service that is -- we're dealing with a donor app, a plasma specific CRM and the donor management system. And so what that allows us to do is gain really an additional business line that is going to allow us once approved with the FDA, It is going to allow us to start running down that path.

是的。這就是我們所說的血液機構電腦系統或 BECS，實際上是一個捐贈者管理系統，它使我們能夠進入血漿血液空間。我們有一套產品，我們建立了一個軟體即服務（SaaS）——我們正在處理捐贈者應用程式、血漿專用客戶關係管理系統和捐贈者管理系統。因此，這將使我們能夠獲得一條額外的業務線，一旦獲得 FDA 的批准，就可以開始沿著這條道路前進。

Peter Heckmann, D.A. Davidson.

彼得‧赫克曼，D.A.戴維森。

I'm just curious in the plasma business. It's probably hard to disaggregate, but I guess, have you sensed any uptick in donors given some of the issues around withholding SNAP benefits as part of the government shutdown? And then conversely, what type of headwind are you feeling in terms of just the increased ICE activity with detaining immigrants and departing immigrants in terms of donors? Do you think on a net basis, do you think those offset each other? Or could you just comment on any dynamics you're seeing?

我對血漿產業很有興趣。雖然可能很難具體分析，但我想問的是，鑑於政府停擺期間扣留 SNAP 福利的一些問題，您是否感覺到捐贈者人數增加？反過來，就捐款者而言，隨著美國移民及海關執法局（ICE）拘留和遣返移民活動的增加，您感受到了什麼樣的阻力？你認為從整體來看，這些因素會互相抵銷嗎？或者您能否就您觀察到的任何動態發表一下看法？

Pete, on the latter question, I can tell you haven't seen any change. Remember, when you give plasma, you have to present an ID so they can track you and do everything else. So people that are here illegally in the states without the proper identification are given plasma. So there's been zero impact related to the change of our immigration population. As for the other -- with the shutdown, the shutdown has only been around a couple of weeks.

皮特，關於後一個問題，我可以看出你還沒有看到任何變化。記住，當捐血漿時，你必須出示身分證件，以便他們追蹤你的身分並進行其他相關操作。所以，那些非法滯留在美國且沒有合法身分證明的人會被給予血漿治療。因此，移民人口的變化並未對我們產生任​​何影響。至於另一件事──停擺，停擺也才持續了好幾個星期。

We -- I haven't seen -- maybe Mark seen, but we really haven't seen any change and the donors on that. Mark, have you -- what have you seen anything?

我們——我沒看到——也許馬克看到了，但我們真的沒看到任何變化，捐助者也對此沒有反應。馬克，你──你有沒有看到什麼？

No, we haven't seen it.

不，我們還沒看過。

Okay. Haven't seen it. All right.

好的。沒看過。好的。

No. Not really expecting to at this point. We -- obviously, we've seen -- in the past, we've seen kind of -- it looks like it's starting to loosen up a little bit coming into the fourth quarter, and we expect it to loosen up probably the second half of the year, and that is around the donor that is around the donor, what we're doing with the donors in regards to payments. So we're seeing the payments that we're sending out are starting to go up. And we would expect that to continue for probably the next 6 to 12 months.

不。目前來看，我並不抱太大希望。我們——顯然，我們已經看到——過去，我們已經看到——看起來進入第四季度後情況開始有所好轉，我們預計下半年情況可能會有所好轉，這指的是捐贈者方面，也就是我們在支付方面與捐贈者所做的事情。所以我們看到，我們發出的付款金額開始上升。我們預計這種情況可能會持續6到12個月。

Okay. I see. And then just on that latter question on the donor management, CRM engagement platform. I guess any insights into the timing for when that approval might come through? And then in terms of like just sizing that opportunity, is that something where there's hundreds of customers and each system could be hundreds of thousands of dollars?

好的。我懂了。然後，就後一個關於捐贈者管理、CRM互動平台的問題而言。我想請問一下，有沒有人知道大概什麼時候才能獲得批准？那麼，就評估這個機會的規模而言，是否有數百個客戶，每個系統都可能價值數十萬美元？

Or how should we be thinking about that in terms of the potential benefit?

或者我們應該如何從潛在益處的角度來考慮這個問題？

Yes. I mean we were expecting to get through the FDA approval sometime in fourth quarter. Going into first quarter, we obviously didn't expect the shutdown, and we certainly didn't expect it to last as long as it has. Obviously, that will push us back probably first quarter, second quarter, hopefully, the earlier.

是的。我的意思是，我們原本預計在第四季獲得FDA的批准。進入第一季時，我們顯然沒有預料到停工，更沒有預料到停工會會持續這麼久。顯然，這會將我們的進度推遲到第一季、第二季度，希望是更早一些。

And regarding how to think about it, no, there's not -- in the U.S market, you can -- it's a readily available number of how many clients are out there. I wouldn't call it hundreds of clients in the U.S. market. However, there are -- there is a center-by-center basis that we would license. But it's early days, and I don't really want to get into the model by which we're going to go out at this point in time.

至於如何看待這個問題，不，沒有——在美國市場，你可以——這是一個很容易獲得的客戶數量數據。我不會稱之為美國市場上的數百名客戶。但是，我們是根據各個中心的具體情況進行授權的。但現在還為時過早，我目前還不想深入探討我們將要採用的模式。

(Operator Instructions) And we have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back to Mark Newcomer for closing remarks.

（操作員說明）問答環節到此結束。現在請馬克·紐科默先生作總結發言。

Thank you. Obviously, we're proud of our progress, optimistic about the future, dedicated to delivering substantial growth and long-term shareholder value. And we look forward to updating you again next quarter. Thank you.

謝謝。顯然，我們為所取得的進展感到自豪，對未來充滿信心，致力於實現實質成長和長期股東價值。我們期待下個季度再次向您報告最新情況。謝謝。

Thank you. And this concludes today's conference, and you may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

謝謝。今天的會議到此結束，您可以斷開線路了。感謝您的參與。