Paymentus Holdings Inc (PAY) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the second-quarter 2025 Paymentus earnings conference call. This call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) And at this time, I will now turn the call over to David Hanover with Investor Relations. Go ahead.

大家好，歡迎參加 2025 年第二季 Paymentus 收益電話會議。此通話正在錄音。（操作員指示）現在，我將把電話轉給投資者關係部的 David Hanover。前進。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon. Welcome, and thank you for joining the webcast to review our second-quarter 2025 results. Our earnings release documents are available on the Investor Relations section of the paymentus.com website. They include the earnings presentation that we'll make reference to during this webcast.

謝謝您，接線生。午安.歡迎，感謝您參加網路直播來回顧我們 2025 年第二季的業績。我們的收益發布文件可在 paymentus.com 網站的投資者關係部分找到。其中包括我們將在本次網路廣播中引用的收益報告。

This webcast is being recorded. I hope everyone's had a chance to review those documents. Our founder and CEO, Dushyant Sharma, will make some opening comments before Sanjay Kalra, our CFO, discusses the details of the second quarter and our guidance. Following our prepared remarks, we'll take questions.

本次網路直播正在錄製中。我希望每個人都有機會審閱這些文件。我們的創辦人兼執行長 Dushyant Sharma 將在我們的財務長 Sanjay Kalra 討論第二季的細節和我們的指導之前發表一些開場白。在我們準備好發言之後，我們將回答問題。

Let me remind you that we may make forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, and we refer to non-GAAP financial measures during the webcast. Forward-looking statements are based on management's current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties.

讓我提醒您，我們可能會根據 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》的含義做出前瞻性陳述，並且我們在網路直播期間參考了非 GAAP 財務指標。前瞻性陳述是基於管理階層目前的預期和假設，這些預期和假設受風險和不確定性的影響。

Factors that may cause our actual results to materially differ from expectations are detailed in our earnings materials and our SEC filings that are available on both the SEC and our websites. Information about non-GAAP financial measures, including reconciliations to US GAAP, can also be found in our earnings materials that are available on the website.

可能導致我們的實際結果與預期有重大差異的因素已詳細說明在我們的收益資料和美國證券交易委員會文件中，這些文件可在美國證券交易委員會和我們的網站上查閱。有關非公認會計準則財務指標的資訊（包括與美國公認會計準則的調節）也可以在我們網站上提供的收益資料中找到。

With that, I'd like to turn the webcast over to Dushyant Sharma. Dushyant?

現在，我想將網路直播交給 Dushyant Sharma。杜尚特？

Thanks, David. Paymentus delivered another strong quarter with results that exceeded our expectations in all key areas of our business. We ended the quarter with substantial bookings and a strong backlog, giving us strong visibility and further confidence for the balance of 2025.

謝謝，大衛。Paymentus 又一個季度表現強勁，其業績在所有關鍵業務領域都超出了我們的預期。本季結束時，我們獲得了大量訂單和大量積壓訂單，這讓我們對 2025 年的剩餘時間有了很強的預見性和進一步的信心。

I also want to take a moment to provide an early insight into 2026. Based on the strength of our bookings with increasing frequency of large enterprise wins, and the corresponding backlog that we are busy onboarding, we have greater visibility that is already extending beyond 2025. As a result, we are feeling very good about 2026.

我還想花點時間對 2026 年做出一些初步的展望。基於我們訂單的強勁成長以及大型企業訂單的不斷增加，以及我們正忙於處理的相應積壓訂單，我們擁有更大的可預見性，並且這種預見性已經延伸到 2025 年以後。因此，我們對 2026 年充滿信心。

With this level of unmatched visibility, which allows the management team to focus on creating long-term shareholder value by combining innovation together with a steadfast execution I believe we are building something very special here.

憑藉這種無與倫比的透明度，管理團隊可以專注於將創新與堅定的執行相結合，創造長期股東價值，我相信我們正在建立一些非常特別的東西。

As an example, since our revenue run rate exceeds $1 billion in 2025, and we have early visibility into 2026. We can focus on the next question that is likely on investors' mind. How do we feel about achieving the next significant level of top line revenue growth from here on out? Based on the bookings, backlog, pipeline and the customer trends we are seeing today, along with our expectation that these trends will continue, and our proven ability to execute our business strategies, we are feeling good about our potential to become a multibillion-dollar revenue company in the coming years.

舉例來說，由於我們的收入運行率在 2025 年超過 10 億美元，因此我們對 2026 年有了早期的預見。我們可以集中討論投資者可能關心的下一個問題。我們對從現在開始實現下一個顯著的營業收入成長有何感想？根據我們今天看到的預訂、積壓、管道和客戶趨勢，以及我們對這些趨勢將持續下去的預期，以及我們執行業務策略的已證實的能力，我們對未來幾年成為一家收入數十億美元的公司的潛力充滿信心。

And I'm talking primarily about organic growth here, and this is without any meaningful M&A activity. And there are three key reasons why I believe that to be the case. First, with the advance of agentic AI, the broader technology world and not just bill payments is moving in our direction. The field is now getting wide open for payments. We already do a lot through our world-class platform and have tremendous capabilities, all of which will be fundamental as the world moves beyond software solutions and becomes more agentic.

我在這裡主要談論的是有機成長，這還不包括任何有意義的併購活動。我認為有三個主要原因可以解釋這種情況。首先，隨著代理人工智慧的進步，更廣泛的技術世界（而不僅僅是帳單支付）正在朝著我們的方向發展。如今，支付領域已日趨開放。我們已經透過我們世界一流的平台做了很多事情，並擁有強大的能力，隨著世界超越軟體解決方案並變得更加代理化，所有這些都將變得至關重要。

Let me elaborate. We have the ability to securely handle client data at a scale, manage complex workflows and provide intelligent actionable insights to clients about their business with deep integrations. We securely handle all interactions and resulting transactions across all interaction channels. And we do all this and more 24/7 and only get paid when someone uses our platform.

讓我詳細說明一下。我們有能力安全地大規模處理客戶資料、管理複雜的工作流程，並透過深度集成為客戶提供有關其業務的智慧可操作見解。我們安全地處理所有互動管道上的所有互動和由此產生的交易。我們全天候地做這些事情，甚至更多，只有當有人使用我們的平台時，我們才會獲得報酬。

Said differently, we are already used to a pay-per-use business model, which is likely the future with agentic AI. As a result of our platform capabilities, our pay-per-use business model and a highly profitable public profile, we are ready and have set a perfect foundation for Paymentus to be a force for disruption for years to come. With these strong tailwinds, I believe now is our time.

換句話說，我們已經習慣了按使用付費的商業模式，這很可能就是代理人工智慧的未來。由於我們的平台能力、按使用付費的業務模式和高利潤的公眾形象，我們已經做好準備，並為 Paymentus 成為未來幾年顛覆性力量奠定了完美的基礎。有了這些強烈的順風，我相信現在是我們的時代了。

Second, we believe we have everything we need to scale significantly from here on out. We have tens of millions of users, household and businesses interacting with our platform. We process hundreds of billions of dollars and handle hundreds of millions of payments. And when you combine our current asset base with the market moving in our direction, we are as excited as ever to take the company to the next level.

其次，我們相信，我們已經擁有從現在開始大幅擴張所需的一切。我們有數千萬用戶、家庭和企業與我們的平台互動。我們處理數千億美元的資金並處理數億筆付款。當我們將當前的資產基礎與朝著我們方向發展的市場結合起來時，我們會像以前一樣興奮地將公司提升到一個新的水平。

And third, we are beginning to feel more and more confident about our ability to replace broad-based legacy infrastructure within an enterprise and not just legacy providers as we move up market, enabling expansion of our service offerings. We believe that no company is too large, no workflow is too complex, and no project is too big for us to undertake given our already innovative platform and capabilities.

第三，隨著我們向高端市場邁進，我們開始越來越有信心，我們有能力取代企業內部廣泛的遺留基礎設施，而不僅僅是遺留供應商，從而擴大我們的服務範圍。我們相信，憑藉我們已具備的創新平台和能力，沒有哪個公司太大、工作流程太複雜、專案太大而我們無法承擔。

So these are exciting times indeed for our business. We are looking forward to achieving the next big milestone. With that, let's review our second-quarter results.

因此，對於我們的業務來說，這確實是令人興奮的時刻。我們期待實現下一個重大里程碑。讓我們回顧一下第二季的業績。

Revenue was $280.1 million, an increase of 41.9% year over year, largely driven by increased number of billers and higher transactions. Contribution profit was $93.5 million, up 22.3% year over year. And adjusted EBITDA, which continues to be a primary financial metric for us, was $31.7 million, a 40.7% year-over-year increase and representing a 33.9% adjusted EBITDA margin.

營收為 2.801 億美元，年增 41.9%，主要由於收款人數量增加和交易量增加。貢獻利潤為9,350萬美元，較去年同期成長22.3%。調整後的 EBITDA 仍然是我們的主要財務指標，為 3,170 萬美元，年增 40.7%，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 33.9%。

Once again, the majority of our year-over-year growth in contribution profit fell to our bottom line. And once again, we exceeded the rule of 40 for the quarter coming in at 56%. This reflects our team's solid execution and our focus on delivering high-quality earnings together with solid revenue growth.

再次，我們貢獻利潤的同比增長大部分都落到了我們的底線。本季我們再次超出了 40 的規則，達到 56%。這反映了我們團隊的穩健執行力以及我們對實現高品質收益和穩健收入成長的關注。

Now I'll review our second-quarter business highlights accomplishments. Regarding bookings, this was a very strong quarter, and we are pleased with the pace of bookings we have seen year to date. In the second quarter, we saw particular strength in the large enterprise segment of the market is spread across a broad vertical base. We continue to show the diversity and wide appeal of our platform by signing clients in several industry verticals, including utilities, government agencies, telecommunications, banking and credit unions, insurance and educational institutions, among others.

現在我將回顧我們第二季的業務亮點成就。就預訂量而言，這是一個非常強勁的季度，我們對今年迄今為止的預訂量速度感到滿意。在第二季度，我們看到大型企業市場領域的優勢特別明顯，並且涵蓋了廣泛的垂直基礎。我們透過簽約多個行業垂直領域的客戶，繼續展示我們平台的多樣性和廣泛吸引力，其中包括公用事業、政府機構、電信、銀行和信用合作社、保險和教育機構等。

Additionally, our partnership ecosystem continues to be a significant complement to our direct go-to-market strategy. We have a very efficient and productive partnership portfolio. This quarter, we added additional new channel partners in the financial services and telecommunications industries.

此外，我們的合作夥伴生態系統繼續成為我們直接進入市場策略的重要補充。我們擁有非常有效率和富有成效的合作關係。本季度，我們在金融服務和電信業增加了新的通路合作夥伴。

Simultaneously, we remain focused on onboarding our sizable backlog. Our onboarding enhancements, incremental investments, as well as improving face-to-face client engagement are driving these efforts. During the second quarter, we onboarded clients throughout multiple verticals, including telecommunications, utilities, government agencies, banking and credit unions, property management, healthcare, insurance and financial services.

同時，我們仍將專注於大量積壓訂單的處理。我們的入職改進、增量投資以及改善面對面的客戶參與度正在推動這些努力。在第二季度，我們吸收了多個垂直領域的客戶，包括電信、公用事業、政府機構、銀行和信用合作社、物業管理、醫療保健、保險和金融服務。

With that, let me turn it over to Sanjay to review our financial results in greater detail.

接下來，讓我將任務交給桑傑來更詳細地審查我們的財務結果。

Thanks, Dushyant, and thank you all for joining us today. Before I discuss our quarterly results and outlook, I'd like to remind everyone that the financial results I'll be referring to include non-GAAP financial measures. As David mentioned earlier, our Q2 press release and earnings presentation includes reconciliations of the non-GAAP financial measures discussed on this call to their corresponding GAAP measures. Both of these are available on our website.

謝謝，杜什揚特，也謝謝大家今天加入我們。在討論我們的季度業績和展望之前，我想提醒大家，我將要提到的財務表現包括非公認會計準則財務指標。正如 David 先前所提到的，我們的第二季新聞稿和收益報告包括本次電話會議討論的非 GAAP 財務指標與其相應的 GAAP 指標的對帳。這兩個文件都可以在我們的網站上找到。

Turning to slide 6. For the second quarter of 2025, we delivered another quarter of financial results that exceeded the top end of our guidance. We believe our continued ability to deliver such results demonstrates the inherent strength and durability of our business model.

翻到幻燈片 6。2025 年第二季度，我們再次實現了超出預期最高水準的財務表現。我們相信，我們能夠持續取得這樣的成果，證明了我們商業模式的內在優勢和持久性。

Highlights of our second quarter results include revenue of $280.1 million, up 41.9% year over year. Contribution profit of $93.5 million, which was up 22.3%, and adjusted EBITDA of $31.7 million, up 40.7%. We continue to experience strong customer activity and demand in the second quarter, which drove very strong bookings.

我們第二季業績的亮點包括營收 2.801 億美元，年增 41.9%。貢獻利潤為 9,350 萬美元，成長 22.3%，調整後 EBITDA 為 3,170 萬美元，成長 40.7%。我們在第二季度持續感受到強勁的客戶活動和需求，這推動了非常強勁的預訂量。

We had exceptional bookings this quarter, which enabled us to end the period with a very significant backlog and solid visibility both for the remainder of 2025 and into 2026. We saw particular strength in the large enterprise segment of the market spread across a broad vertical base based on our strong quarterly performance, the positive business trends Dushyant mentioned earlier, and our expectations for the remainder of 2025.

本季我們的訂單量非常大，這使得我們能夠在本季結束時擁有非常可觀的積壓訂單量，並且對 2025 年剩餘時間和 2026 年都有著良好的可預見性。基於我們強勁的季度業績、Dushyant 之前提到的積極業務趨勢以及我們對 2025 年剩餘時間的預期，我們看到大型企業市場在廣泛的垂直基礎上表現出特別強勁的勢頭。

We are raising our full year 2025 guidance for revenue, contribution profit, and adjusted EBITDA, which I'll discuss shortly.

我們正在提高 2025 年全年的收入、貢獻利潤和調整後 EBITDA 預期，我很快就會對此進行討論。

Now let's review our second-quarter financials in more detail. As mentioned, Q2 revenue was $280.1 million, this 41.9% year-over-year growth, which was ahead of our original expectations was driven by increased transactions across all aspects of our business, which includes the launch of new billers, same-store sales from existing billers, and higher activity on our instant payment network or IPM.

現在讓我們更詳細地回顧一下第二季的財務狀況。如上所述，第二季度營收為 2.801 億美元，年增 41.9%，超出了我們最初的預期，這得益於我們業務各個方面的交易量增加，其中包括新付款商的推出、現有付款商的同店銷售額以及即時支付網絡或 IPM 活動的增加。

The number of transactions we processed grew to $175.8 million in the second quarter, up 25.2% year over year. Our average price per transaction increased from $1.41 to $1.59 during the same period. This was mainly due to the biller mix or more specifically, the large enterprise billers that we launched during the third quarter of 2024 with higher average payment amounts.

我們處理的交易數量在第二季度增長至 1.758 億美元，年增 25.2%。同期，我們每筆交易的平均價格從 1.41 美元上漲至 1.59 美元。這主要是由於付款人組合，或者更具體地說，是由於我們在 2024 年第三季推出的大型企業付款人的平均付款金額較高。

This is now the third complete quarter where we are realizing the benefits of these large enterprise customers, although the second-quarter guidance we provided earlier did reflect some of the potential upside from these larger customers. But as you can see, performance still exceeded our expectations.

這是我們實現這些大型企業客戶利益的第三個完整季度，儘管我們先前提供的第二季指引確實反映了這些大客戶的一些潛在優勢。但正如你所看到的，性能仍然超出了我們的預期。

Second-quarter 2025 contribution profit increased to $93.5 million, up 22.3% year over year. This contribution profit increase was also higher than expected and reflects the launch of new billers, the mix of billers launched, and the increase in transactions from existing billers.

2025 年第二季貢獻獲利增至 9,350 萬美元，年增 22.3%。這項貢獻利潤成長也高於預期，反映了新出票人的推出、出票人組合的推出以及現有出票人交易量的增加。

Contribution margin was 33.4% for the second quarter compared to 38.7% in the prior year period as we continue to add larger, higher-volume enterprise billers to our customer base. This change in contribution margin was offset substantially by a year-over-year reduction in operating expense margin, which resulted in an adjusted EBITDA margin of 33.9%. This is consistent with our continued focus on profitability, which I will elaborate on shortly.

由於我們持續在客戶群中增加規模更大、交易量更大的企業帳單客戶，第二季的貢獻利潤率為 33.4%，而去年同期為 38.7%。貢獻利潤率的變化被營業費用利潤率的同比下降大幅抵消，導致調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 33.9%。這與我們持續關注獲利能力的理念一致，我將在稍後詳細說明。

Contribution profit per transaction for the quarter was $0.53, which was relatively flat compared to $0.54 in the prior year and demonstrating our ability to expand market share without sacrificing comparable contribution profit per transaction.

本季每筆交易的貢獻利潤為 0.53 美元，與去年同期的 0.54 美元相比基本持平，這表明我們有能力在不犧牲每筆交易可比貢獻利潤的情況下擴大市場份額。

Also, as we have noted in the past, variables that are outside our control, such as an increase in the average payment amount or changes in payment mix can substantially affect contribution profit on a quarterly basis. And therefore, we treat this as a secondary metric. While our gross revenue and adjusted EBITDA remain primary metrics and focus areas on how we execute our business strategies.

此外，正如我們過去所指出的，我們無法控制的變量，例如平均支付金額的增加或支付組合的變化，可能會對季度貢獻利潤產生重大影響。因此，我們將其視為次要指標。而我們的總收入和調整後的 EBITDA 仍然是我們如何執行業務策略的主要指標和重點領域。

Second-quarter adjusted gross profit was $77.9 million, up 21.7% year over year. As we anticipated, second quarter 2025 non-GAAP operating expenses increased year over year to $49 million. This 11.3% increase which we had budgeted for was primarily due to higher research and development as well as planned sales and marketing expenses. Again, these increases were anticipated and mainly driven by increased hiring and agency fee for business from our resellers and partners in order to enhance our technical strengths and convert our strong pipeline into bookings.

第二季調整後毛利為7,790萬美元，較去年成長21.7%。正如我們預期的那樣，2025 年第二季非 GAAP 營運費用年增至 4,900 萬美元。我們預算的這一 11.3% 的增長主要是由於研發費用以及計劃銷售和行銷費用的增加。再次，這些成長是預期的，主要是由於我們增加了來自經銷商和合作夥伴的業務招聘和代理費用，以增強我們的技術實力並將我們強大的通路轉化為預訂。

We expect to make similar investments throughout the remainder of the year as we continue to execute our go-to-market strategy. These assumptions are already incorporated into our guidance, which I will review shortly.

我們預計在今年剩餘時間內進行類似的投資，同時繼續執行我們的市場進入策略。這些假設已經納入我們的指導中，我將很快進行審查。

Second-quarter non-GAAP net income was $19.3 million or $0.15 per share compared to $13.4 million or $0.10 per share in the prior year period, an increase of 50%. Second-quarter adjusted EBITDA was $31.7 million, up 40.7% compared to $22.5 million in the prior year. Adjusted EBITDA also represented 33.9% contribution profit for the quarter compared to 29.5% in the prior year.

第二季非公認會計準則淨收入為 1,930 萬美元或每股 0.15 美元，而去年同期為 1,340 萬美元或每股 0.10 美元，成長 50%。第二季調整後的 EBITDA 為 3,170 萬美元，較去年同期的 2,250 萬美元成長 40.7%。調整後的 EBITDA 也代表本季貢獻利潤為 33.9%，去年同期為 29.5%。

Our strong adjusted EBITDA performance was due to the same combination of positive factors I talked about earlier, all of which came together in the quarter. We believe this stronger adjusted EBITDA margin demonstrates the innate operating leverage we have in the business and our sustained ability to adapt to ever-changing market conditions while we still continue to grow.

我們強勁的調整後 EBITDA 表現得益於我之前談到的一系列積極因素，所有這些因素都在本季度匯集在一起。我們相信，這一更強勁的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率證明了我們在業務中擁有的固有經營槓桿，以及我們在繼續增長的同時持續適應不斷變化的市場條件的能力。

Interest income from our bank deposits was $2.3 million during the second quarter compared to $2.2 million in the prior year period. Related to our performance, we once again exceeded the rule of 40 for the quarter, coming in at approximately [56%] relatively in line with 58% in the prior year period.

第二季度，我們銀行存款的利息收入為 230 萬美元，去年同期為 220 萬美元。就我們的業績而言，本季我們再次超過了 40 的規則，達到約 [56%]，與去年同期的 58% 相對一致。

Now I'll discuss our balance sheet and liquidity position on slide 7. We ended the second quarter with total cash and cash equivalents of $270 million compared to $249.6 million at the end of first quarter of 2025. The $20.4 million sequential increase was primarily comprised of $31.5 million of cash generated from operations offset by $11.2 million cash used in investing and financing activities, mainly capitalized software of $8.9 million.

現在我將在第 7 張投影片上討論我們的資產負債表和流動性狀況。截至第二季末，我們的現金和現金等價物總額為 2.7 億美元，而 2025 年第一季末為 2.496 億美元。2,040 萬美元的環比成長主要包括經營活動產生的 3,150 萬美元現金，抵銷了投資和融資活動所使用的 1,120 萬美元現金，主要是 890 萬美元的資本化軟體。

We do not have any debt. Free cash flow generated during the quarter was $22.5 million, primarily driven by a strong adjusted EBITDA in the quarter. Driving organic growth continues to be our primary focus. Having said that, our strong cash position enables us to maintain financial flexibility to allow for working capital investments as we scale.

我們沒有任何債務。本季產生的自由現金流為 2,250 萬美元，主要得益於本季強勁的調整後 EBITDA。推動有機成長仍然是我們的首要關注點。話雖如此，我們強大的現金狀況使我們能夠保持財務靈活性，以便在擴大規模時進行營運資金投資。

In addition to this, our ample liquidity allows us to explore attractive M&A opportunities that may arise in order to expand our growth strategies. Our days sales outstanding at the end of second quarter was 31% compared to 33% at the end of prior quarter better than our expected range.

除此之外，我們充足的流動性使我們能夠探索可能出現的有吸引力的併購機會，以擴大我們的成長策略。我們第二季末的應收帳款週轉天數為 31%，而上一季末為 33%，優於我們的預期範圍。

Working capital at the end of second quarter was approximately $297.4 million, an increase of approximately 6% sequentially. We had 129 million diluted shares outstanding during the second quarter, relatively in line with 128.8 million diluted shares outstanding during the prior quarter.

第二季末營運資金約2.974億美元，季增約6%。我們第二季的流通股數為 1.29 億股稀釋股份，與上一季的流通股數 1.288 億股稀釋股份基本持平。

Before I discuss guidance, I would like to provide some additional color on our recent bookings and backlog rents. Over the past two years, we have seen increasing momentum from large enterprise customers. In fact, as I mentioned earlier, this past quarter, we saw particular strength in this customer segment across multiple verticals.

在討論指導之前，我想先介紹一下我們最近的預訂和積壓租金情況。在過去的兩年中，我們看到大型企業客戶的成長動能不斷增強。事實上，正如我之前提到的，上個季度，我們看到這群客戶群在多個垂直領域都展現了特別的優勢。

Adding to this, throughout the past four quarters in a row, we have experienced very strong bookings resulting in a robust year-over-year growth in exit backlog for the quarter. This significant backlog growth is not only in terms of total backlog dollars but also in the number of total customers and large enterprise customers within our backlog. This provides us much greater visibility for the rest of this year as well as into 2026.

此外，在過去連續四個季度中，我們的預訂量都非常強勁，導致本季的退出積壓訂單量較去年同期強勁成長。積壓訂單的顯著成長不僅體現在積壓訂單總額方面，也體現在我們積壓訂單中的客戶總數和大型企業客戶數量。這為我們今年剩餘時間以及 2026 年的前景提供了更大的可預見性。

Now I'll turn to our non-GAAP guidance for the third quarter and full year 2025 on slide 8. I want to emphasize that we are continuing to follow the same prudent approach to guidance that we have followed in the past.

現在，我將轉到第 8 張投影片，介紹我們對 2025 年第三季和全年的非 GAAP 指導。我想強調的是，我們將繼續遵循過去同樣審慎的指導方針。

For the third quarter 2025, we expect revenues to be in the range of $278 million to $282 million, representing 20.9% year-over-year growth at the midpoint and 21.8% at the high end. Contribution profit to range from $92 million to $94 million, which is 16.3% year-over-year growth at the midpoint and 17.5% at the high end. Adjusted EBITDA of $30 million to $32 million, representing a growth of 26% year over year at the midpoint and 30.1% at the high end. This represents a 33.3% margin at midpoint and 34% at the high end.

對於 2025 年第三季度，我們預計營收將在 2.78 億美元至 2.82 億美元之間，中間值年增 20.9%，高階成長 21.8%。貢獻利潤在 9,200 萬美元至 9,400 萬美元之間，中間值年增 16.3%，高端值年增 17.5%。調整後的 EBITDA 為 3,000 萬美元至 3,200 萬美元，中間值年增 26%，高階價值年增 30.1%。這意味著中間利潤率為 33.3%，高端利潤率為 34%。

Along with our guidance, I also want to reiterate some key points related to our outlook for contribution profit growth rates and adjusted EBITDA margin. As our business grows, and as I mentioned on prior calls, we are receiving greater inbound interest from larger enterprise customers. Not unexpectedly, these large customers often request volume discounts, which we are open to where the deal economics support it.

除了我們的指導之外，我還想重申與貢獻利潤增長率和調整後 EBITDA 利潤率展望相關的一些要點。隨著我們業務的成長，正如我在之前的電話會議中提到的那樣，我們收到了來自大型企業客戶的越來越多的關注。毫不意外的是，這些大客戶經常要求批量折扣，只要交易經濟條件允許，我們就會接受這種折扣。

In addition, our tremendous operating leverage allows us to attract and book these large customers. Said differently, volume discounts for larger customers are typically more than offset by strong incremental adjusted EBITDA. This increases our efficiency as our onboarding time per pillar is declining, while average customer size is simultaneously increasing.

此外，我們龐大的經營槓桿使我們能夠吸引和預訂這些大客戶。換句話說，大客戶的批量折扣通常會被強勁的增量調整後 EBITDA 所抵消。這提高了我們的效率，因為我們每個支柱的入職時間正在減少，而平均客戶規模卻同時增加。

Furthermore, we have the ability to recalibrate OpEx spending relative to contribution profit in order to reach a desired adjusted EBITDA. To demonstrate this phenomenon for the second quarter of 2025 results, I want to share two key data points.

此外，我們有能力重新調整相對於貢獻利潤的營運支出，以達到理想的調整後 EBITDA。為了證明 2025 年第二季結果的這個現象，我想分享兩個關鍵數據點。

First, our incremental adjusted EBITDA margin was 53.8%, relative to the adjusted EBITDA margin of 33.9%. And second, while the contribution profit can fluctuate quarter to quarter and operating expense recalibration opportunities exist in our business, our incremental adjusted EBITDA margin has improved by 470 basis points year over year and adjusted EBITDA margin has improved by 440 basis points year over year despite any temporary softening of our contribution profit growth rates on a year-over-year basis.

首先，我們的增量調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 53.8%，而調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 33.9%。其次，雖然貢獻利潤可能逐季度波動，並且我們的業務中存在營運費用重新調整的機會，但儘管我們的貢獻利潤增長率與去年同期相比暫時有所放緩，但我們的增量調整後 EBITDA 利潤率同比提高了 470 個基點，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率同比提高了 440 個基點。

Based on our results and progress we have made in the first half of 2025 and our expectations for the remainder of the year, for the full year 2025, we now expect revenue in the range of $1.123 billion to $1.132 billion. This reflects a raise of approximately $45 million or approximately 4.2% from the midpoint of our previous guidance. This upgraded guidance now represents 29.3% annual growth at midpoint and 29.9% at high end.

根據我們在 2025 年上半年取得的業績和進展以及今年剩餘時間的預期，我們目前預計 2025 年全年收入將在 11.23 億美元至 11.32 億美元之間。這比我們先前預測的中點增加了約 4,500 萬美元，約 4.2%。此升級後的指引目前顯示年增率中位數為 29.3%，高階值為 29.9%。

Contribution profit in the range of $369 million to $373 million. This reflects a raise of approximately $5 million or 1.4% at midpoint versus prior guidance. This updated guidance now represents 18.9% annual growth at midpoint and 19.6% at the high end.

貢獻利潤在3.69億美元至3.73億美元之間。與先前的指導相比，這反映了中期約 500 萬美元或 1.4% 的成長。更新後的指引顯示，年增率中位數為 18.9%，最高值為 19.6%。

Adjusted EBITDA to range from $123 million to $127 million, representing a raise of approximately $5 million or approximately 4.2% increase at the midpoint versus our previous guidance. The updated guidance now represents a 32.7% annual growth at the midpoint and 34.8% annual growth at high end. This represents a 33.7% margin on the contribution profit at midpoint and 34% at the high end.

調整後的 EBITDA 範圍為 1.23 億美元至 1.27 億美元，與我們先前的預期相比，中間值增加了約 500 萬美元或約 4.2%。更新後的指引顯示，年增率中位數為 32.7%，年增率上限為 34.8%。這意味著貢獻利潤的中間值為 33.7%，高端值為 34%。

We expect a non-GAAP tax rate of 25%. This annual guidance implies a rule of 40 scale range of 52 to 54.

我們預計非公認會計準則稅率為 25%。本年度指導意見暗示了 52 至 54 的 40 級範圍規則。

Thank you, everyone, for your attention today. And now I will turn back to Dushyant for final remarks before we open up the call for questions.

謝謝大家今天的關注。現在，在我們開始提問之前，我將回到杜尚特的最後發言。

Thanks, Sanjay. In summary, our second quarter was another period where we achieved results that surpassed our expectations, including revenue and adjusted EBITDA that were both up over 40%. We exited the quarter with strong bookings and backlog to give us solid visibility and confidence in our outlook for the rest of 2025 and into 2026.

謝謝，桑傑。總而言之，我們的第二季再次取得了超乎預期的業績，包括營收和調整後的 EBITDA 均成長了 40% 以上。本季結束時，我們的預訂量和積壓訂單量強勁，這讓我們對 2025 年剩餘時間和 2026 年的前景有了堅實的了解和信心。

We believe the stability and durability of growth algorithm allow for a fertile ground for disruptive innovation for long-term value creation. I'm also confident about our future success due to a number of factors, including our business model with its proven ability to generate sustainable growth, expanded profitability, and its innate operating leverage.

我們相信，成長演算法的穩定性和持久性為長期價值創造的顛覆性創新提供了肥沃的土壤。我對我們未來的成功也充滿信心，這得益於多種因素，包括我們的商業模式已證明能夠實現可持續增長、提高盈利能力，以及其固有的經營槓桿。

Our durability to withstand and even thrive in difficult economic environments, the large nondiscretionary and growing bill payment market that we serve. Our novel and differentiated technology and platform and ecosystem. Our broad and growing customer base and our strong balance sheet with $270 million of cash and cash equivalents and no debt.

我們有能力承受困難的經濟環境，甚至在艱難的經濟環境中蓬勃發展，我們所服務的是龐大且不斷增長的非自由支配賬單支付市場。我們新穎且差異化的技術、平台和生態系統。我們擁有廣泛且不斷成長的客戶群和強勁的資產負債表，擁有 2.7 億美元的現金和現金等價物，且沒有債務。

As always, I want to thank our entire team for all their efforts and dedication to our business. And that concludes our prepared remarks. I'll now open up the line for questions.

像往常一樣，我要感謝我們整個團隊為我們的業務所做的一切努力和奉獻。我們的準備好的演講到此結束。我現在開始回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Dave Koning, Baird.

（操作員指示）戴夫·科寧，貝爾德。

And I guess my first question, just looking at the historical seasonality. And historically, Q2 for many years in a row now has been the slowest sequential growth from a seasonal perspective. This year, you're only guiding Q3 to pretty flattish sequential. Usually, it's up a lot. And maybe, A, review the seasonality a little bit; and B, maybe, is there any reason Q3 wouldn't follow the normal trend for faster growth in Q2?

我想我的第一個問題只是看歷史季節性。從歷史上看，第二季度已經連續多年成為季節性成長最慢的季度。今年，您僅預測第三季的業績將環比持平。通常，它會上漲很多。也許，A，稍微回顧一下季節性；B，也許，有什麼原因導致第三季不會遵循第二季更快成長的正常趨勢？

Dave, thanks for the question. The seasonality, I would say, as we are capturing more and more market share and the pace of growth we have seen in our revenues, especially, we are seeing that there is a shift happening a little bit on the seasonality, especially if we get the large government customers, we could see that shift.

戴夫，謝謝你的提問。我想說的是，隨著我們佔據越來越多的市場份額，並且我們的收入成長速度加快，我們看到季節性正在發生一些變化，特別是如果我們獲得大型政府客戶，我們就能看到這種變化。

So overall, the business is growing. Overall, if you see we also raised the guidance for the full year in terms of top line as well, bottom line as well, I think overall, it's marching in the right path. And EBITDA as a percentage is getting better, our incremental EBITDA margin is 53.8% as well.

因此總體而言，業務正在成長。總的來說，如果你看到我們也提高了全年的營收和淨利潤預期，我認為總體而言，我們正朝著正確的方向前進。EBITDA 百分比正在變得更好，我們的增量 EBITDA 利潤率也達到了 53.8%。

Seasonality quarter over quarter would exist and could move in between years and not necessarily the past trends could be followed as we are on a significant scale of capturing market share. But to be more precise on this year's numbers, especially for Q2, there is one more -- sorry, for Q3, you will see a flattish revenue, at least in terms of guidance because there are two facts.

季度與季度之間的季節性會存在，並且可能在幾年之間發生變化，而且不一定會遵循過去的趨勢，因為我們正在大規模地佔領市場份額。但為了更準確地了解今年的數據，特別是第二季度的數據，還有一個——抱歉，對於第三季度，你會看到收入持平，至少在指導方面是這樣，因為有兩個事實。

One is seasonality which you mentioned. The second is we have not seen complete full four quarters of the large enterprise billers, which were launched in Q3. They were not launched on fast day of Q3 last year, right? And they were large, so they could have some impact. So that's the piece of it.

一個是你提到的季節性。第二，我們還沒有看到第三季推出的大型企業帳單的完整四個季度。它們不是去年第三季的齋戒日推出的，對嗎？而且它們很大，所以可能會產生一些影響。這就是它的全部內容。

And then there are some same-store sales, which offset it. So overall, that's the guidance we have come up with following our prudent guidance methodology. And as the business delivers and as the results come in, we will be able to update you more. But overall, we feel very good about where we are in Q3 as well as Q4 and for the full year.

然後還有一些同店銷售額抵銷了這一影響。總的來說，這是我們根據審慎指導方法所得出的指導。隨著業務的開展和結果的公佈，我們將能夠向您提供更多資訊。但總體而言，我們對第三季、第四季以及全年的業績感到非常滿意。

Yes. Okay. And then secondly, one thing on just quality of earnings, that was kind of remarkable. Historically, you've had almost no bad debt expense the last couple of quarters. it's been around $1.5 million or so. If you didn't have that, it would be 200 basis points higher adjusted EBITDA margin. Is there something about the mix of business out the enterprise clients that you want to add a little bit more conservatism around just collections? Or maybe why was the bad debt expense a little higher?

是的。好的。其次，關於獲利質量，有一點非常了不起。從歷史上看，過去幾季你們幾乎沒有壞帳費用，大約是 150 萬美元左右。如果沒有這個，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率將會高出 200 個基點。您是否希望在企業客戶的業務組合中，僅在收款方面增加一些保守性？或者為什麼壞帳費用會高一點？

Well, on the bad debt expense, this is a pretty small amount, I think, overall compared to our business and revenues I think -- I don't think it's anything significant. It's just some old amounts, which we write off prudently. It's totally insignificant in our view.

嗯，就壞帳費用而言，我認為，與我們的業務和收入相比，這是一個相當小的數額——我認為這不是什麼重大的事情。這只是一些舊金額，我們會謹慎地將其註銷。在我們看來，這完全無關緊要。

Darrin Peller, Wolfe Research.

達林·佩勒（Darrin Peller），沃爾夫研究公司。

Congrats on a strong quarter again. I just want to start with, again, you said your optimism and conviction and really just excitement about bookings and backlog is very -- was pretty clear on the call. And so maybe just diving in a little deeper on that, in terms of the verticals you're winning that are incrementally showing success above and beyond utilities, but really the expansion verticals. How is it going? Where are you seeing the most demand?

再次恭喜本季業績強勁。我只是想先說明一下，您再次表示，您對預訂和積壓訂單的樂觀和信念以及興奮之情在電話中表現得非常清楚。因此，也許只需更深入地研究一下，就您所贏得的垂直領域而言，這些垂直領域正在逐步顯示出超越公用事業的成功，但實際上是擴展垂直領域。最近好嗎？您認為哪裡的需求最大？

And then maybe also add on to with the enterprise side. And really, what is it about the business that's allowing you to have the right to win there as much as you have? It sounds like there's a lot of backlog and strong trends ahead of us there, too.

然後也許還會加入企業方面。那麼，究竟是什麼讓您在商業領域擁有如此大的獲勝權利呢？聽起來我們面前還有很多積壓的工作和強勁的趨勢。

Thank you, Darrin. This is Dushyant. So I think it's a culmination of what we have actually built over the years in our platform. So that -- and combine that with our ecosystem. So one of the things that we have noticed over the years is that there was a time that there was a segment of the market, which used to always think about third-party systems as sort of is that they're not going to be outsourcing, but they don't need to outsource and a lot of the capability they could do themselves.

謝謝你，達林。這是杜尚特。所以我認為這是我們多年來在平台上建立的成果的頂峰。因此——並將其與我們的生態系統結合。因此，多年來我們注意到的一件事是，曾經有一段時間，市場上有一部分人總是認為第三方系統是他們不會外包的，但他們不需要外包，很多功能他們可以自己完成。

And that was the time I think we took a little bit different tact compared to where the industry was going. Industry was thinking it is sort of like a integrated software play, where we -- all you need to do is to provide APIs and you can connect with the software systems, and that's it. In our view, we were building a platform and an ecosystem.

我認為那時我們採取的策略與產業的發展方向略有不同。業界認為它有點像一個整合軟體遊戲，我們所需要做的就是提供 API，然後就可以連接到軟體系統，就是這樣。我們認為，我們正在建立一個平台和一個生態系統。

We believe at some point, an inflection point will occur where a lot of the large companies will start to realize that, look, it's just not easy to replicate what Paymentus has built because of the capabilities into the platform itself and the reach through the ecosystem. So what that has transpired into now is almost like one of the other thesis we had was what can we do to allow or overcome the biggest challenge these large enterprises have, which is they want control.

我們相信，在某個時候，會出現一個轉折點，許多大公司會開始意識到，複製 Paymentus 所建構的東西並不容易，因為平臺本身的功能和生態系統的覆蓋範圍都很有限。所以現在發生的事情幾乎就像我們的另一個論點一樣，那就是我們能做些什麼來允許或克服這些大企業面臨的最大挑戰，那就是他們想要掌控。

They want flexibility and functionality, but they also want control. So we felt that can we create a platform that allows them to have relative control over the processes and also have a say into what goes into their platform and how the platform looks, how it is perceived, how the consumers interact with it and what the look and feel is like and what the customer experience is like and what the rules of engagement are for their customers.

他們想要靈活性和功能性，但他們也想要控制。因此，我們覺得我們是否可以創建一個平台，讓他們能夠相對控制流程，並且能夠決定平台的內容、平台的外觀、感知方式、消費者如何與平台互動、外觀和感覺如何、客戶體驗如何以及客戶的參與規則是什麼。

If all of those could be incorporated within Paymentus platform without having for Paymentus to go on a multiyear custom development, which used to be the traditional approach. Instead, we have taken [attack] -- we did a lot of hard work there, put a lot of hard work into the platform that clients should be able to configure the platform that they want it without having to spend a lot of time and money.

如果所有這些都可以納入 Paymentus 平台，而無需 Paymentus 進行多年的客製化開發（這曾經是傳統方法）。相反，我們採取了[攻擊]——我們在那裡做了很多艱苦的工作，在平台上投入了大量的精力，客戶應該能夠配置他們想要的平台，而不必花費大量的時間和金錢。

And then if you combine that with our public statements over the years, which has been that in the last couple of years, we've been talking about house in the -- during the -- after the post-COVID, our implementation speed has gone up and including our success we are seeing in the large enterprise space and being able to onboard the clients. That is another fair factor for the clients.

然後，如果將其與我們多年來的公開聲明結合起來，那就是在過去幾年中，我們一直在談論後疫情時代的房屋問題，我們的實施速度已經加快，包括我們在大型企業領域看到的成功以及能夠接納客戶的能力。這對客戶來說是另一個公平因素。

So when you put all of this together, clients are becoming increasingly more comfortable with Paymentus platform, the capabilities, the control they get but also the flexibility and the functionality they get along with the reach. And on top of that, the onboarding certainty, which comes with Paymentus public execution, is very well received.

因此，當你把所有這些放在一起時，客戶會越來越滿意 Paymentus 平台、其功能、他們所獲得的控制權以及他們所獲得的靈活性和功能性以及覆蓋範圍。除此之外，Paymentus 公開執行所帶來的入職確定性也受到了廣泛好評。

Now as a result, what's happening is we are actually -- utility remains a very strong vertical for us. We are doing great. And we will continue to -- we expect to continue to do great in the utility vertical. We love the vertical. In fact, it's the hardest vertical to succeed at a scale -- and we knew that if we could do well there, we would be able to do well in other industries, and that theory is proving out.

現在的結果是，我們實際上——實用性對我們來說仍然是一個非常強大的垂直領域。我們做得很好。我們將繼續——我們希望繼續在公用事業垂直領域取得巨大成功。我們喜歡垂直。事實上，這是最難大規模取得成功的垂直領域——我們知道，如果我們能在那裡做得好，我們就能在其他行業中做得好，而這個理論正在被證明。

Now we have government agencies, which are [media] of agencies, all with different permutation combination of business rules, we're able to handle that. And then you have insurance companies, which are all different segments of their divisions, which are able to onboard successfully on our platform.

現在我們有政府機構，它們是機構的[媒體]，都有不同的業務規則排列組合，我們能夠處理這些問題。然後，您有保險公司，它們都是其部門的不同部分，能夠成功加入我們的平台。

And then you go down the line. So we are seeing success in all of the verticals, and (inaudible) decided a strategy to continue to work on all of these verticals and continue to grow our business in all of those areas. Does that help?

然後你繼續往下走。因此，我們在所有垂直領域都取得了成功，並且（聽不清楚）決定制定一項策略，繼續在所有這些垂直領域開展工作，並繼續在所有這些領域發展我們的業務。這樣有幫助嗎？

That does. It's exciting to hear. I guess just one quick follow-up with me. When I think about the ability to do all of these while growing your overall business, I mean, your expense growth has been much more much more -- there's been a lot of operating leverage in the business, which I just want to make sure we can still see, given how much you're growing top line and adding new types of customers, including enterprise.

確實如此。聽到這個消息真令人興奮。我想只需跟進一下即可。當我考慮在發展整體業務的同時完成所有這些工作的能力時，我的意思是，您的費用增長要多得多——業務中存在很大的運營槓桿，我只是想確保我們仍然可以看到這一點，考慮到您的營收增長和新客戶類型的增加，包括企業。

Do you expect sustainability to the operating leverage you're going to be to show so far going forward? Or do you have to build out more infrastructure?

您是否預期未來所展現的經營槓桿將持續下去？還是你必須建設更多的基礎建設？

So Darrin, the operating leverage on the business is anyway very good. And let me give you a couple of examples which are pretty much apparent from the results of our most recent quarter Q2. If you look at -- we are raising our guidance already for the full year for CP and that is much more than what we already beat in Q2.

所以 Darrin，無論如何，該業務的經營槓桿都非常好。讓我給你舉幾個例子，這些例子從我們最近一個季度第二季的業績中可以明顯看出。如果你看一下——我們已經提高了 CP 全年的預期，這比我們在第二季度已經超過的預期要高得多。

And then we are also raising our guidance of adjusted EBITDA, which is also more than what we guided earlier. Now if you look at the Q2 results from the midpoint, our contribution profit was up by $3 million and adjusted EBITDA dollars was up by $2.7 million. So that's like 90% of incremental margin is right over there. And while we are spending very cautiously as operating leverage on the business is very high.

然後，我們也提高了調整後 EBITDA 的預期，這也高於我們先前的預期。現在，如果您從中點來看第二季的業績，我們的貢獻利潤增加了 300 萬美元，調整後的 EBITDA 增加了 270 萬美元。所以，90% 的增量利潤就在那裡。由於業務的經營槓桿非常高，因此我們在支出方面非常謹慎。

But we are also very cognizant that we have a huge market in front of us. The pipeline is very good, and it keeps on growing as we pass through quarters. And we would like to spend the money to convert that pipeline into bookings. That has been our bad bone and has been serving us really well.

但我們也非常清楚，我們面前有一個巨大的市場。管道非常好，隨著我們經過幾個季度，它還在不斷增長。我們願意花錢將該管道轉化為預訂。這一直是我們的弱點，但卻給我們帶來了極大的困擾。

So we will not be shy of spending the money for the right reasons as that's the right investment for us. Not only we have a significant cash on the balance sheet, but that we believe is the right investment of organic growth, which is serving us. Despite of all that, we are still expecting a significant operating leverage it keeps on growing.

因此，我們不會羞於出於正當理由花錢，因為這對我們來說是正確的投資。我們不僅在資產負債表上擁有大量現金，而且我們相信這是對有機成長的正確投資，這對我們有利。儘管如此，我們仍然預期其經營槓桿將持續成長。

I would highlight that the guidance today we have provided for Q3, and in fact, an implied guidance of Q4, which can also be derived from the numbers we gave, both these quarters the incremental EBITDA margins are better than what we delivered last year in Q3 and Q4. And for the full year as well, based on the guidance, the incremental EBITDA margin at midpoint is 51.6% compared to 50.8% last year.

我想強調的是，我們今天為第三季度提供的指引，事實上，也是對第四季度的隱含指引，這也可以從我們提供的數字中得出，這兩個季度的增量 EBITDA 利潤率都比去年第三季度和第四季度要好。對於全年而言，根據指引，中期增量 EBITDA 利潤率為 51.6%，而去年為 50.8%。

And as you already see in this current quarter, our incremental EBITDA margin is 470 points better than last year compared to total EBITDA margin of 440 basis points. So what I'm trying to get to is that the operating leverage in the business is high, you can look at from many perspectives, and we are marching on the right path.

正如您在本季所看到的，我們的增量 EBITDA 利潤率比去年同期高出 470 點，而總 EBITDA 利潤率為 440 個基點。所以我想說的是，業務中的經營槓桿很高，你可以從多個角度來看，我們正朝著正確的道路前進。

Our goal is to grow profitably and not just grow we want to make sure we balance both the equations and -- but we have a great opportunity in front of us. I hope that helps to understand where we are.

我們的目標是實現獲利成長，而不僅僅是成長，我們希望確保平衡這兩個等式——但我們面前有一個很好的機會。我希望這有助於了解我們的現狀。

John Davis, Raymond James.

約翰戴維斯、雷蒙詹姆斯。

Dushyant, I want to circle back to some of your opening remarks, you talked about becoming a multibillion revenue business in the next few years. that would imply, call it, mid-20s revenue growth, obviously, a little bit slower than you're growing now, but ahead of the 20%-plus growth that you've kind of outlined for the medium term.

Dushyant，我想回到您開場白的部分，您談到在未來幾年內成為一家收入達數十億美元的企業。這意味著，可以稱之為 25% 左右的收入成長，顯然，這比您現在的成長速度要慢一點，但高於您為中期所概述的 20% 以上的成長。

So is it going too far to think that given the backlog, you have incremental confidence in kind of maybe mid-20s growth versus ['20] before? Just kind of thoughts there would be helpful.

那麼，考慮到積壓訂單，您是否認為與 20 年前相比，您對 20 年代中期的成長更有信心？只是這樣的想法會有幫助。

Thank you, John. I think from a CAGR model perspective, we are still committed to the same CAGR model of 20% top line growth and 20% to 30% adjusted EBITDA dollar growth. What I was referring to is that this is an exciting time for the company, and we are seeing the market is moving in other direction.

謝謝你，約翰。我認為從 CAGR 模型的角度來看，我們仍然致力於相同的 CAGR 模型，即 20% 的營收成長和 20% 至 30% 的調整後 EBITDA 美元成長。我指的是，對於公司來說，這是一個令人興奮的時刻，我們看到市場正在朝著另一個方向發展。

And frankly, we, as a company, couldn't be more excited today or we are as excited as we have been at any point with the advent of agentic AI and all of those -- the things which are taking place in the world, not just in bill payments, we are -- we believe that our preparedness over the years is actually going to prove to be very fruitful for our shareholders as we go forward.

坦白說，作為一家公司，我們今天感到無比興奮，或者說，隨著代理人工智慧的出現以及所有這些正在世界上發生的事情，我們感到無比興奮，不僅僅是在帳單支付方面，我們相信，多年來的準備實際上將證明對我們的股東非常有益。

So what I was talking about is that we believe that we could be a multibillion-dollar company in coming years based on all of the strength of the KPIs we are seeing. However, we want to remain very disciplined on our CAGR model, and that's where we are right now.

所以我想說的是，我們相信，根據我們所看到的所有 KPI 的實力，我們可能在未來幾年成為一家價值數十億美元的公司。然而，我們希望對我們的複合年增長率模型保持嚴格的紀律，這就是我們現在所處的狀態。

No, fair enough. And then, Sanjay, I think obviously, lots of positive things to talk about today, but maybe one thing having out the (inaudible) was free cash flow year to date, really strong and again, really good in the second quarter. I think conversion is over 150% of adjusted net income for the first half of the year.

不，很公平。然後，桑傑，我認為今天顯然有很多積極的事情要談，但也許有一件事（聽不清楚）是今年迄今為止的自由現金流非常強勁，而且第二季度也非常好。我認為轉換率將超過今年上半年調整後淨收入的 150%。

So any comments on full year free cash flow or how should we think about it, either in terms of adjusted percent of adjusted EBITDA or a percent of adjusted net income for the back half or any kind of onetime-ish things in 2Q?

那麼，對於全年自由現金流有什麼評論，或者我們應該如何看待它，無論是根據調整後的 EBITDA 百分比，還是根據下半年調整後的淨收入百分比，還是根據第二季度的任何一次性事項？

John, so cash flow is very important to us. And the interesting part about cash flow is very difficult to forecast. One thing is for certain, looking at our trends, especially for this year. We are we generated 64-ish million in the six months, 22.5 million in this quarter and 40-ish in the first quarter. So we feel very good about the cash generation.

約翰，現金流對我們來說非常重要。有趣的是，現金流很難預測。從我們的趨勢來看，特別是今年的趨勢，有一件事是肯定的。我們在六個月內創造了約 6,400 萬美元的收入，本季創造了約 2,250 萬美元的收入，第一季創造了約 4,000 萬美元的收入。因此，我們對現金產生感到非常滿意。

To be helpful, I can provide a model of how to come up with a forecast for free cash flow? At the outset, I would say our adjusted EBITDA margin can be adjusted for tax outflow, income taxes, which is approximately 25% as we guided. There's a [cap] of free cash outflow, which is approximately a run rate of $9 million.

為了提供幫助，我可以提供一個模型來說明如何預測自由現金流嗎？首先，我想說，我們的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率可以根據稅收流出、所得稅進行調整，按照我們的指導，約為 25%。自由現金流出有一個上限，大約是 900 萬美元的運行率。

You can add interest income, which is approximately $2.2 million-ish based on the interest rates. And then the unknown piece is the working capital. And that is something which could fluctuate quarter over quarter. And that's very difficult to forecast. I would say if the business is scaling significantly, we might be needing some cash to put in the working capital.

您可以新增利息收入，根據利率計算，約 220 萬美元。然後未知的部分是營運資金。這可能會在每個季度之間發生波動。這很難預測。我想說，如果業務大幅擴大，我們可能需要一些現金來投入營運資金。

But at the same time, that's very difficult to forecast, as I said, and it could depend on DSO range is somewhere 30 to 40 days. We are glad that we are coming at the best range at 31 days this quarter. So that's the piece which is unknown. You can use this model, hopefully to come up with free cash flow forecast.

但同時，正如我所說，這很難預測，並且可能取決於 DSO 範圍，大約為 30 到 40 天。我們很高興本季達到了 31 天的最佳範圍。所以這是未知的部分。您可以使用此模型，希望能得出自由現金流預測。

But I would say, overall, the business is definitely cash generating. We have seen over the past many quarters or the right way to interpret this would be excluding working capital needs, if they may arise, this is a cash-generating profitable business.

但我想說，總體而言，這項業務肯定能產生現金。在過去的許多季度中，我們已經看到，或者正確的解釋方式是排除營運資本需求，如果可能的話，這是一項產生現金的獲利業務。

(Operator Instructions) [Andrew Bauchwitz], JPMorgan.

（操作員指示）[Andrew Bauchwitz]，摩根大通。

Congrats on the quarter. I wanted to start off my questions by asking about the comments you gave on AI and agentic AI payments. I was curious if you could provide any color on what conversations are like with your existing customers or even prospects as far as what events can provide for them in kind of agentic Paymentus future?

恭喜本季取得佳績。我想先詢問您對人工智慧和代理人工智慧支付的評論。我很好奇，您是否可以提供一些細節，說明您與現有客戶甚至潛在客戶的對話情況，以及未來代理 Paymentus 活動可以為他們提供哪些幫助？

Yes. I think we -- first of all, thank you for the question, Andrew. The way we are synthesizing as we analyze the entire opportunity in the landscape. If you think about -- one of the key ingredient that is needed for a very successful AI implementation is all of the aspects I talked about where can you handle very complex workflows.

是的。我認為我們—首先，感謝您的提問，安德魯。我們在分析整個景觀機會時所採用的綜合方式。如果你考慮一下——非常成功的人工智慧實施所需的關鍵因素之一就是我談到的所有方面，你可以在哪裡處理非常複雜的工作流程。

Can you handle data lakes at scale? Can you separate one customer's data at the scale from thousands more you have? So all of those type of things, combined with running a pay-per-use model at a scale with 24/7 interaction channels management across the spectrum. So when I factor when I look at all of that, it appears to me that we couldn't be more ready than any other company in terms of being able to capitalize on it.

您能處理大規模資料湖嗎？您能否將一個客戶的資料從數千個客戶的資料中分離出來？因此，所有這些類型的事情，與大規模的按使用付費模式相結合，可以實現全方位的全天候互動管道管理。因此，當我考慮到所有這些因素時，我認為我們在利用這一點方面準備得併不比其他公司更充分。

So the type of opportunities we are seeing is it is early days. The first thing I would say is we made a decision, and we are thinking about it as we go forward from here on out and years, I'm just giving you a longer-term view here, not necessarily immediate future is that -- we believe that the AI not only going to be a productivity tool for payments for our internal purposes. But with our ability to already be a central nervous system for our clients, customer interactions and collections and revenues.

因此，我們看到的機會還處於早期階段。我想說的第一件事是，我們已經做出了一個決定，我們會從現在開始考慮這個問題，未來幾年我們還會繼續考慮這個問題，我只是給你一個更長遠的觀點，不一定是近期的觀點——我們相信人工智慧不僅會成為我們內部支付的生產力工具。但我們已經有能力成為客戶、客戶互動、收款和收入的中樞神經系統。

We believe we will be able to help our clients across all areas, whether it's improving the customer experience, whether it is reducing their cost to serve by helping them taking a lot of the cost and unwieldy process is out whether it is related to receiving payments or sending payments out.

我們相信，我們將能夠在各個領域幫助我們的客戶，無論是改善客戶體驗，還是透過幫助他們減少大量成本和繁瑣的流程來降低服務成本，無論是與接收付款還是發送付款有關。

So we think of this as a multidimensional play, and we are excited about of setting foundation for all being -- AI could be a potential revenue center for us or at least could be additive to what we are doing here right now.

因此，我們認為這是一個多維的遊戲，我們很高興為所有存在奠定基礎——人工智慧可能是我們的潛在收入中心，或者至少可以補充我們現在正在做的事情。

Great. That's super helpful. And then for my follow-up, you mentioned in the prepared remarks here, our headcount plans kind of hiring to meet the demand. I was curious if there was any way you could disaggregate for us hiring plans across [Salesforce] versus the implementation and onboarding side?

偉大的。這非常有幫助。然後，我的後續問題是，您在準備好的演講中提到，我們的員工計劃是招募以滿足需求。我很好奇，您是否能為我們分解一下 Salesforce 的招聘計劃和實施及入職方面的計劃？

Andrew, the hiring plans, which we said at the beginning of the year, we are on the path to executing them. very carefully by each quarter. As you know, we calibrate our OpEx spending based on how the CP is coming, for example. This quarter, we took an opportunity to spend a little more than what we planned because the CP came in a little more.

安德魯，我們在年初提出的招聘計劃，我們正在按每個季度非常仔細地執行。例如，如您所知，我們會根據 CP 的進展來調整我們的營運支出。本季度，我們抓住機會，支出比計劃多一點，因為 CP 收入稍微多了一點。

But in terms of exactly how much is on sales force versus, say, implementation or versus other engineering needs, we want to spend a majority of our focus on converting the pipeline to bookings, which is our real return on investment. And while leaving no stone unturned to update our technical strengths in engineering and implementation as well.

但就銷售人員與實施或其他工程需求的具體投入而言，我們希望將大部分精力放在將管道轉化為預訂上，而這才是我們真正的投資回報。同時，我們竭盡全力更新我們在工程和實施方面的技術實力。

So we are maintaining a fine balance between what the company needs to grow longer term. keeping our strengths, the priority as well, but not missing out any opportunity on conversion. So these decisions are kind of flexible, although we set a plan, but we always make an attempt to be very much addressing what are the real demands compared to the opportunities we have in front of us. So it will be hard to lay out where it is more.

因此，我們在公司長期發展需求與維持優勢、優先發展之間保持良好的平衡，但不會錯過任何轉型機會。因此，這些決定有一定的靈活性，儘管我們制定了計劃，但我們始終盡力解決與我們面臨的機會相比真正的需求。因此，很難確定它在哪裡。

But on a high level, if you want to get a sense of where the more focus is I would say the focus is more on sales as we want to get more and more bookings to maintain and deliver a good growth and get our CAGR model delivered.

但從高層次來看，如果你想了解更多的關注點在哪裡，我會說重點更多地放在銷售上，因為我們希望獲得越來越多的預訂，以保持和實現良好的增長並實現我們的複合年增長率模型。

Zachary Gunn, FT Partners.

FT Partners 的 Zachary Gunn。

I just want to follow up and ask on the incremental EBITDA margin. So First, I appreciate that the implied 2H margin, incremental margins are better on a year-over-year basis. but there is a step down in the second half of the year versus the first half of the year. So I guess first question is just is there anything specific driving that to call out?

我只是想跟進並詢問增量 EBITDA 利潤率。首先，我很欣賞下半年隱含的利潤率，增量利潤率與去年同期相比有所提高。但與上半年相比，下半年的利潤率下降。所以我想第一個問題是，是否有任何具體因素促使這種情況出現？

Well, that, I would say the only thing I'd like to call out is that looking any one particular metric using a trend of actuals in the past and guidance in the future. may give you a misleading view. I think it's important to see the trends. And I would say, first of all, we follow a very prudent guidance methodology.

好吧，我想說，我唯一想說的是，使用過去的實際趨勢和未來的指導來看待任何特定的指標。可能會給你一個誤導的觀點。我認為了解趨勢很重要。我想說，首先，我們遵循非常謹慎的指導方法。

We do not like to count our chickens before they hatch. So we are cognizant of what are the opportunities, at the same time, the risks in front of us, and we give them a fair share. We've been fortunate enough to address more of the upside in our guidance methodologies rather than the risks. So we do not expect that the incremental EBITDA margins will go down.

我們不喜歡未卜先知。因此，我們清楚我們面臨的機會和風險，並公平地承擔這些風險。我們很幸運，我們的指導方法更關注的是好處而不是風險。因此，我們預期增量 EBITDA 利潤率不會下降。

We are very focused on delivering good returns, especially on EBITDA margins, we've been a rule of 40 company for a long time. So at this point, I would say that the incremental growth you are seeing, based on that, the incremental margins are still positive. But overall, I think the trends would indicate we take a cautious view here.

我們非常注重提供良好的回報，尤其是 EBITDA 利潤率，長期以來我們一直是 40 條規則的公司。因此，就目前而言，我想說，基於此，您所看到的增量成長、增量利潤率仍然為正。但總體而言，我認為趨勢表明我們應該持謹慎態度。

Got it. No, I appreciate that. And just as a follow-up on that point. So the incremental margins are in the low for the full year. Is there any reason to think that that's not sustainable over the long term? And we should eventually expect the adjusted EBITDA margin to converge with that? Or do you think that this is an elevated level just anything higher level in terms of longer-term opportunity on the margin side.

知道了。不，我很感激。這只是對這一點的後續跟進。因此，全年增量利潤率處於較低水準。有什麼理由認為這種狀況從長遠來看是不可持續的嗎？我們最終應該預期調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率會與此趨同嗎？或者您認為，就利潤方面的長期機會而言，這是一個更高的水平。

So the longer-term opportunity, I would say, is this company has a very strong operating leverage, and we have been able to demonstrate that many quarters in a row. And based on the opportunities in front of us for growth, and given I'm talking about long term here and not in the very short term, especially not for the guidance period, we expect longer-term incremental EBITDA margins or even the EBITDA margins of the company to get better.

因此，我想說，長期機會在於這家公司擁有非常強大的經營槓桿，而且我們已經連續多個季度證明了這一點。基於我們面臨的成長機會，考慮到我在這裡談論的是長期而不是短期，特別是指導期，我們預計公司的長期增量 EBITDA 利潤率甚至 EBITDA 利潤率將會變得更好。

This is not the peak at all. If that is the question, we are seeing good growth, and this should be getting better over time in the outer periods.

這根本就不是巔峰。如果這是問題的話，那麼我們看到了良好的成長，隨著時間的推移，外部時期的成長應該會變得更好。

There are no further questions winning at this time. I would now like to pass the conference back to management for any closing remarks.

目前沒有其他獲勝問題。現在，我想將會議交還給管理階層，請他們發表結束語。

Thank you, everyone. Have a great day. Thank you. Bye bye.

謝謝大家。祝你有美好的一天。謝謝。再見。

That concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation, and enjoy the rest of your day.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，祝您今天過得愉快。