Paymentus Holdings Inc (PAY) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the first-quarter 2025 Paymentus Holdings earnings conference call. This call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

大家好，歡迎參加 2025 年第一季 Paymentus Holdings 收益電話會議。此通話正在錄音。（操作員指示）

At this time, I will now turn the call over to Scott Eckstein, Investor Relations.

現在，我將把電話轉給投資者關係部的 Scott Eckstein。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon. Welcome and thank you for joining the webcast to review our first-quarter 2025 results. Our earnings release documents are available on the Investor Relations section of the paymentus.com website. They include the earnings presentation that we'll make reference to during this webcast. This webcast is being recorded.

謝謝您，接線生。午安.歡迎並感謝您參加網路廣播來回顧我們 2025 年第一季的業績。我們的收益發布文件可在 paymentus.com 網站的投資者關係部分找到。其中包括我們將在本次網路廣播中引用的收益報告。本次網路直播正在錄製中。

I hope everyone's had a chance to review those documents. Our Founder and CEO, Dushyant Sharma, make some opening comments before Sanjay Kara, our CFO, discusses the details of the first quarter of 2025 and our guidance. Follow our prepared remarks, we'll take questions.

我希望每個人都有機會審閱這些文件。我們的創辦人兼執行長 Dushyant Sharma 在我們的財務長 Sanjay Kara 討論 2025 年第一季度的細節和我們的指導之前發表了一些開場白。根據我們準備好的發言，我們將回答問題。

I just remind you that we may make forward-looking statements in the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. And we refer to non-GAAP financial measures during the webcast. Forward-looking statements are based on management's current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties.

我只是提醒您，我們可能會根據 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》做出前瞻性陳述。我們在網路直播中參考了非公認會計準則財務指標。前瞻性陳述是基於管理階層目前的預期和假設，這些預期和假設受風險和不確定性的影響。

Factors that may cause our actual results and material difficult from those expectations are detailed in our earnings materials and our SEC filings that are available on both the SECs and our websites. Information about non-GAAP financial measures, including reconciliations to its GAAP, can also be found in our earnings materials that are available on our website.

可能導致我們的實際結果和資料與預期不符的因素在我們的收益資料和美國證券交易委員會文件中有詳細說明，這些資料和文件可在美國證券交易委員會和我們的網站上查閱。有關非 GAAP 財務指標的資訊（包括與 GAAP 的對帳）也可以在我們網站上提供的收益資料中找到。

With that I'd like to turn the webcast over to Dushyant Sharma. Dushyant.

現在我想將網路直播交給 Dushyant Sharma。杜尚特。

Thanks Scott.

謝謝斯科特。

Paymentus started in 2025 on a strong footing with excellent results, including year-over-year growth in revenue, contribution profit, and adjusted EBITDA. This performance continues to be driven by our strong sales momentum and higher transaction activity from both new and existing clients.

Paymentus 在 2025 年伊始就取得了強勁的發展，取得了優異的業績，包括收入、貢獻利潤和調整後 EBITDA 的同比增長。這一業績繼續受到我們強勁的銷售勢頭以及新舊客戶更高的交易活動的推動。

Based on our outperformance in the first quarter, our strong pipeline, bookings, and backlog at the end of the quarter and the continued momentum in all growth areas of our business, we are feeling good about the remainder of 2025 and beyond. Despite the macro environment, we find ourselves in a very fortunate situation, where we are serving an important part of the non-discretionary essential domestic economy.

基於我們在第一季的出色表現、本季末的強勁的管道、預訂量和積壓訂單以及我們業務所有成長領域的持續成長勢頭，我們對 2025 年剩餘時間及以後的前景充滿信心。儘管宏觀環境如此，但我們發現自己處於非常幸運的境地，我們正在服務於非必需的國內經濟的重要組成部分。

Let me provide a real-world example. For a typical household, just to be able to cook, you need water, electricity, and gas. These bills are fundamental, and you need to pay for these services. They're not optional. Just this segment alone gets us to about half of our business.

讓我提供一個現實世界的例子。對於一個典型的家庭來說，僅僅為了能夠做飯，就需要水、電和瓦斯。這些帳單是基本費用，您需要為這些服務付費。它們不是可選的。光是這一部分就佔了我們業務的一半左右。

Similarly, you need to pay for a phone for your rent, mortgage, and taxes. Likewise, if you have a home, car, or life insurance, to maintain coverage, you need to pay for those bills. And you can go down the line of our verticals and realize that it is a privilege to be serving an essential side of the domestic economy with a differentiated and a scale-technology platform and ecosystem like Paymentus.

同樣，您需要支付手機租金、抵押貸款和稅金。同樣，如果您有房屋、汽車或人壽保險，為了維持保險範圍，您需要支付這些費用。你可以沿著我們的垂直領域走下去，就會發現我們很榮幸能夠透過像 Paymentus 這樣的差異化、規模化技術平台和生態系統來服務國內經濟的重要面向。

And from a go-to-market standpoint, we could not ask for a better value proposition that our platform and ecosystem provide our clients, which is reducing the cost to serve while helping them improve the experience for their customers. This value proposition resonates in all economic cycles. Particularly because we are a critical service for revenue collections for the businesses we serve.

從行銷的角度來看，我們的平台和生態系統為客戶提供了最好的價值主張，即降低服務成本，同時幫助他們改善客戶體驗。這項價值主張在所有經濟週期中都產生共鳴。特別是因為我們對於我們服務的企業的收入徵收起著至關重要的作用。

Taking into consideration our value proposition resulting in a continued market momentum along with the enormous steam of non-discretionary bills, I continue to believe that our best is yet to come, and we are indeed just getting started.

考慮到我們的價值主張將帶來持續的市場動力以及大量非自由支配票據，我仍然相信我們最好的時刻尚未到來，而我們才剛剛開始。

Turning now to our first-quarter results, revenue was $275.2 million, an increase of 48.9% year over year driven largely by increased clients and transactions. Contribution profit was $87.6 million, up 26.3% year over year. Adjusted EBITDA, which is a significant financial metric for us, was $30 million an increase of 51.3% year over year. Adjusted EBITDA margin was 34.2% in the quarter. It's a new record.

現在來看看我們的第一季業績，營收為 2.752 億美元，年增 48.9%，主要原因是客戶和交易量的增加。貢獻利潤為8760萬美元，年增26.3%。調整後的 EBITDA 對我們來說是一個重要的財務指標，為 3000 萬美元，年增 51.3%。本季調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 34.2%。這是一個新紀錄。

You will note that over 50% of our year-over-year growth in contribution profit dropped to our bottom line. This is a key aspect of our business model that we have pointed out on previous calls, which is our proven ability to consistently expand our operating leverage without sacrificing growth or innovation.

您會注意到，我們貢獻利潤年增的 50% 以上都落到了我們的底線。這是我們商業模式的關鍵方面，我們在先前的電話會議上已經指出，這是我們在不犧牲成長或創新的情況下持續擴大經營槓桿的能力。

As we sit here today, It feels great to reaffirm our CAGR model for our primary matrix of 20% top-line revenue growth and 20% to 30% bottom line adjusted EBITDA growth. As is evident from our first-quarter results, we outperformed our CAGR model by a wide margin for both top line and the bottom line. This is reflected in our updated guidance that Sanjay will cover shortly. As a reminder, this CAGR model is for our primary matrix of revenue and adjusted EBITDA only and should not be confused with the secondary matrix, such as contribution profit and OpEx.

今天我們坐在這裡，很高興再次確認我們的複合年增長率模型，即我們的主要矩陣為 20% 的營業收入增長和 20% 至 30% 的利潤調整後 EBITDA 增長。從我們第一季的業績可以看出，我們的營收和利潤都遠遠超出了複合年增長率模型。這反映在我們桑傑即將介紹的更新指南中。提醒一下，此 CAGR 模型僅適用於我們的主要收入矩陣和調整後的 EBITDA，不應與貢獻利潤和營運支出等次要矩陣混淆。

As we have been doing quite successfully to date, we will continue to use our strong operating leverage to calibrate contribution profit and OpEx as necessary to achieve these longer-term targets. In addition to these results, we exited the first quarter with strong bookings and a solid implementation backlog. The multi-year commitments under our typical agreements from these bookings continue to give us confidence in our ability to achieve our CAGR model beyond 2025.

由於我們迄今為止做得相當成功，我們將繼續利用強大的營運槓桿來根據需要調整貢獻利潤和營運支出，以實現這些長期目標。除了這些業績之外，我們在第一季還取得了強勁的預訂量和穩固的實施積壓。這些訂單的典型協議下的多年期承諾繼續讓我們對在 2025 年以後實現複合年增長率模型的能力充滿信心。

Our solid execution during the quarter once again allowed us to surpass the Rule of 40 and doing so by a wide margin at 61. As you have shared previously at payments, our goal remains to continue delivering high-quality earnings alongside solid top-line growth.

我們在本季度的出色執行力使我們再次超越了 40 規則，並以 61 的巨大優勢領先。正如您之前在支付方面所分享的，我們的目標仍然是繼續提供高品質的收益以及穩健的營收成長。

Now I'll review some of our key first-quarter business highlights and accomplishments. During the first quarter, we signed clients in various industry verticals, including utilities, government agencies, telecommunications, banking, and credit unions, insurance, and educational institutions, among others.

現在我將回顧我們第一季的一些主要業務亮點和成就。在第一季度，我們簽約了各行業的客戶，包括公用事業、政府機構、電信、銀行、信用合作社、保險和教育機構等。

We believe this broad mix of new clients shows the diversity of the businesses and the multiple-industry verticals our platform can support. In addition, we signed several new channel partners in various industry verticals to deepen our partner ecosystem. These verticals include property management, education, banking, and credit unions.

我們相信，新客戶的廣泛組合體現了業務的多樣性以及我們的平台可以支援的多行業垂直領域。此外，我們在各個垂直行業中簽署了多家新的通路合作夥伴，以深化我們的合作夥伴生態系統。這些垂直行業包括物業管理、教育、銀行和信用合作社。

Our diverse and ever-expanding partner network continues to complement our drag go-to-market strategy. At the same time, we continue to focus on onboarding over considerable backlog. Our onboarding enhancements, incremental investments, as well as constantly improving Face to-face client engagement continue to drive these efforts.

我們多元化且不斷擴大的合作夥伴網絡繼續補充我們的拖曳市場策略。同時，我們繼續專注於處理大量積壓訂單。我們的入職改進、增量投資以及不斷改善的面對面客戶參與度繼續推動這些努力。

During the quarter, we onboarded clients across multiple verticals, namely utilities, healthcare, telecommunications, property management, insurance, government services, banking, and credit unions.

本季度，我們吸收了多個垂直領域的客戶，包括公用事業、醫療保健、電信、物業管理、保險、政府服務、銀行和信用合作社。

With that, let me turn it over to Sanjay to review our financial results in greater detail.

接下來，讓我將任務交給桑傑來更詳細地審查我們的財務結果。

Thanks, Dushyant. And thank you, all, for joining us today.

謝謝，杜尚特。感謝大家今天加入我們。

Before I discuss our first-quarter results and outlook, I'd like to remind everyone that the financial results I'd be referring to include non-GAAP financial measures. Our Q1 press release and earnings presentation includes reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures to their corresponding GAAP measures. Both of these are available on our website.

在討論我們的第一季業績和展望之前，我想提醒大家，我所指的財務表現包括非公認會計準則財務指標。我們的第一季新聞稿和收益報告包括這些非 GAAP 財務指標與其對應的 GAAP 指標的對帳。這兩個文件都可以在我們的網站上找到。

Turning to slide 5. We started off the year with another quarter of very strong financial results driven by higher transaction activity from both new and existing bidders. We believe these results continue to demonstrate the resiliency, stability, and strength of our business.

翻到幻燈片 5。今年年初，我們又取得了非常強勁的財務業績，這得益於新舊競標者交易活動的增加。我們相信這些結果繼續證明了我們業務的彈性、穩定性和實力。

Our first-quarter 2025 results came in stronger than we anticipated. With revenues of $275.2 million contribution profit of $87.6 million and adjusted EBITDA of $30 million. On the Rule-of-40 basis, we came in at 61, which we are quite pleased with. I'll discuss the drivers of our outperformance and the strong business momentum behind them shortly. These strong results enabled us to once again exit the quarter with a much stronger cash position. And allowed us the flexibility to allocate capital with a continuous focus on long term growth that also contributed to robust bookings and backlog.

我們的 2025 年第一季業績超出我們的預期。營收為 2.752 億美元，貢獻利潤為 8,760 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 3,000 萬美元。按照 40 法則，我們的成績為 61，我們對此感到非常滿意。我將很快討論我們優異表現的驅動因素及其背後強勁的業務勢頭。這些強勁的業績使我們在本季結束時再次擁有更強勁的現金狀況。並使我們能夠靈活地分配資本，持續專注於長期成長，這也有助於實現強勁的預訂量和積壓訂單。

Now let's review our first-quarter financials in more detail. As I mentioned earlier, first-quarter 2025 revenue was $275.2 million, up 48.9% year over year. This growth was largely driven by the launch of new builders over the past year, as well as increased same-store sales from existing builders.

現在讓我們更詳細地回顧一下第一季的財務狀況。正如我之前提到的，2025 年第一季的營收為 2.752 億美元，年增 48.9%。這一增長主要是由於過去一年新建築商的推出以及現有建築商同店銷售額的增長所致。

We also processed a higher level of transactions during the first quarter, with this number reaching 173.2 million, up 28% year over year. Our average revenue per transaction increased to $1.59 compared to $1.37 in the prior year. This was mainly due to the biller mix, or more specifically the large enterprise builders that we launched during the second half of 2024 with higher average payment amounts.

我們在第一季處理的交易量也有所增加，達到 1.732 億筆，年增 28%。我們每筆交易的平均收入從前一年的 1.37 美元增加到 1.59 美元。這主要是由於付款人組合，或者更具體地說，是由於我們在 2024 年下半年推出的大型企業建設者的平均付款金額較高。

This is now the second full quarter where we are seeing the benefits of these large enterprise customers. The first-quarter guidance we provided did consider some of this upside into account. But as you can see, it's still exceeded our expectations.

這是我們第二個完整季度看到這些大型企業客戶的好處。我們提供的第一季指導確實考慮到了其中的一些好處。但正如你所看到的，它仍然超出了我們的預期。

First-quarter 2025 contribution profit increased to $87.6 million, up 26.3% year over year. This increase also reflects the launch of new billers and higher transactions from existing billers. Contribution margin was 31.8% for the first quarter compared to 33.4% last quarter and 37.5% in the prior year period. The year-over-year reduction reflects the mix of large, higher-volume enterprise billers in our growing customer base. This change in contribution profit was offset substantially by a year-over-year reduction in operating expense margin, which resulted in a record adjusted EBITDA margin of 34.2%. This is consistent with our continued focus on profitability, which I will elaborate on shortly.

2025 年第一季貢獻利潤增至 8,760 萬美元，年增 26.3%。這一增長也反映了新付款人的推出以及現有付款人交易量的增加。第一季貢獻利潤率為 31.8%，上一季為 33.4%，去年同期為 37.5%。與去年同期相比的減少反映了我們不斷增長的客戶群中大型、高交易量企業帳單的混合。貢獻利潤的變化被營業費用利潤率的同比下降大幅抵消，導致調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率達到創紀錄的 34.2%。這與我們持續關注獲利能力的理念一致，我將在稍後詳細說明。

Contribution profit per transaction for the quarter was $0.51, similar to the prior year period, demonstrating our ability to expand market share without sacrificing comparable contribution profit per transaction. As we noted before, variables that are outside of our control, such as an increase in the average payment amount or changes in the payment mix, can affect contribution profit on a quarter-to-quarter basis. And, therefore, we treat this as a secondary metric while our gross revenue and adjusted EBITDA remain primary metrics for us.

本季每筆交易的貢獻利潤為 0.51 美元，與去年同期相似，這表明我們有能力在不犧牲每筆交易可比貢獻利潤的情況下擴大市場份額。正如我們之前提到的，我們無法控制的變量，例如平均支付金額的增加或支付組合的變化，可能會影響季度間的貢獻利潤。因此，我們將其視為次要指標，而我們的總收入和調整後的 EBITDA 仍然是主要指標。

First-quarter 2025 adjusted gross profit was $72.6 million, up 25.9% year over year. That was in line with the contribution profit growth. As we anticipated, first-quarter 2025 non-GAAP operating expenses increased 13% year over year to $45.5 million. This increase was primarily due to higher research and development expenses as well as sales and marketing expenses.

2025 年第一季調整後毛利為 7,260 萬美元，年增 25.9%。這與貢獻利潤成長一致。正如我們預期的那樣，2025 年第一季非 GAAP 營運費用年增 13% 至 4,550 萬美元。這一增長主要是由於研發費用以及銷售和行銷費用的增加。

Again, these increases were planned and mainly driven by increased hiring and agency fees for business from our resellers and partners in order to enhance our technical strengths and convert our strong pipeline into bookings. We expect to make similar investments throughout the year as we continue to execute our go to market strategy. These expectations are already incorporated in our guidance, which I'll review in more detail shortly.

再次強調，這些成長是經過計劃的，主要原因是我們增加了來自經銷商和合作夥伴的業務招聘和代理商費用，以增強我們的技術實力並將我們強大的管道轉化為預訂。我們預計全年都會進行類似的投資，同時我們將繼續執行我們的市場策略。這些預期已經納入我們的指導中，我將很快對其進行更詳細的審查。

First-quarter 2025, non-GAAP net income was $17.6 million or $0.14 per share compared to non-GAAP net income of $11.8 million or $0.09 per share in the prior year period. This reflects a non-GAAP tax rate of 25%, which is based on current expectation of our long-term projected tax rate and is reflected in our 2025 guidance. First-quarter 2025 adjusted EBITDA rose 51.3% to $30 million compared to $19.8 million in the prior-year period. Adjusted EBITDA also represented a record 34.2% of contribution profit compared to 28.6% in the prior year period.

2025 年第一季度，非 GAAP 淨收入為 1,760 萬美元或每股 0.14 美元，而去年同期的非 GAAP 淨收入為 1,180 萬美元或每股 0.09 美元。這反映了 25% 的非 GAAP 稅率，該稅率基於我們對長期預期稅率的當前預期，並反映在我們的 2025 年指引中。2025 年第一季調整後 EBITDA 成長 51.3% 至 3,000 萬美元，而去年同期為 1,980 萬美元。調整後的 EBITDA 貢獻利潤也達到創紀錄的 34.2%，去年同期為 28.6%。

We believe the stronger adjusted EBITDA margin demonstrates the inherent operating leverage we have in the business. Note that approximately 56% of our year-over-year growth in contribution profit fell to the bottom line. Related to this, once again, we also exceeded the Rule of 40 for the quarter coming in at 61. This is a measure we take seriously and our team here mon$209.4 million at the end of 2024. The $40.2 million sequential increase was primarily comprised of 50.4 million of cash generated from operations offset by $10.2 million cash used in investing and financing activities, primarily capitalized software. The company does not have any debt.

我們相信，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率的提高證明了我們在業務中擁有的固有經營槓桿。請注意，我們貢獻利潤同比增長的約 56% 落到了底線。與此相關，本季度我們再次超出了 40 規則，達到 61。我們非常重視這項措施，我們的團隊預計到 2024 年底將獲利 2.094 億美元。4,020 萬美元的環比成長主要包括經營活動產生的 5,040 萬美元現金，抵銷了投資和融資活動（主要是資本化軟體）所使用的 1,020 萬美元現金。該公司沒有任何債務。

Free cash flow generated during the quarter was a record 4$1.1 million. This was primarily driven by strong adjusted EBITDA in the quarter and also extracting cash from working capital by reducing our accounts receivable balances, demonstrating that our working capital is fairly liquid and can be converted to cash quickly if needed.

本季產生的自由現金流達到創紀錄的 4,110 萬美元。這主要是由於本季強勁的調整後 EBITDA，以及透過減少應收帳款餘額從營運資本中提取現金，顯示我們的營運資本流動性相當強，可以在需要時快速轉換為現金。

Driving organic growth continues to be our primary focus. Having said that, our strong cash position enables us to maintain financial flexibility to give room for working capital investments as we scale. In addition to this, our ample liquidity allows us to explore attractive M&D opportunities that may arise in order to expand our growth prospects.

推動有機成長仍然是我們的首要關注點。話雖如此，我們強大的現金狀況使我們能夠保持財務靈活性，從而為擴大規模時的營運資金投資提供空間。除此之外，我們充足的流動性使我們能夠探索可能出現的有吸引力的製造與開發機會，以擴大我們的成長前景。

Our days sales outstanding at the end of the first quarter was 33% compared to 43% at the end of prior quarter, much better than we expected. Working capital at the end of the first quarter was approximately $280.5 million, an increase of approximately 6.2% sequentially. We had 128.8 million diluted shares outstanding during the first quarter compared to 128.7 million diluted shares outstanding during the prior quarter.

我們第一季末的應收帳款週轉天數為 33%，而上一季末為 43%，遠優於我們的預期。第一季末營運資金約2.805億美元，季增約6.2%。第一季度，我們流通在外的稀釋股份為 1.288 億股，而上一季流通在外的稀釋股份為 1.287 億股。

Now I'll turn to our Q2 2025 and revised full-year 2025 guidance for revenue, contribution profit, and adjusted EBITDA on slide 7. Before discussing full-year guidance, I want to mention that we are continuing to follow the same prudent approach to guidance that we followed during all of 2024 which has proven very successful for us.

現在，我將轉到第 7 張投影片，介紹我們 2025 年第二季和修訂後的 2025 年全年收入、貢獻利潤和調整後 EBITDA 的指引。在討論全年指導之前，我想提一下，我們將繼續遵循與 2024 年全年相同的審慎指導方法，事實證明這對我們來說非常成功。

As reflected on the slide for Q2 2025, we expect revenues in the range of $255 $260 million. Contribution profit in the range of $89.5 million to $91.5 million and adjusted EBITDA in the range of $28 million to $30 million. On the Rule-of-40 basis for the second quarter of 2025, our guidance implies a range of 48 to 52.

正如 2025 年第二季的幻燈片所反映的那樣，我們預計收入將在 2.55 億美元至 2.6 億美元之間。貢獻利潤在 8,950 萬美元至 9,150 萬美元之間，調整後 EBITDA 在 2,800 萬美元至 3,000 萬美元之間。根據 2025 年第二季的 40 法則，我們的指導範圍是 48 至 52。

For the full-year 2025, we now expect revenues in the range of 1.075 billion to $1.09 billion, an increase of 3.1% from midpoint of our prior guidance and now representing 24.2% year-over-year growth at the midpoint. Contribution profit in the range of $363 million to $369 million, up 1.1% from midpoint of our previous guidance.

對於 2025 年全年，我們目前預計收入將在 10.75 億美元至 10.9 億美元之間，比我們之前預測的中位數增長 3.1%，現在的中位數同比增長 24.2%。貢獻利潤在 3.63 億美元至 3.69 億美元之間，比我們先前預期的中位數成長 1.1%。

Adjusted EBITDA in the range of $118 million to $122 million, up 5.3% from the midpoint of our previous guidance and now representing 27.4% year over year growth at the midpoint. And our non-GAAP tax rate of 25%. On the Rule-of-40 basis, our guidance implies a range of 49 to 51 for the full-year 2025.

調整後的 EBITDA 在 1.18 億美元至 1.22 億美元之間，比我們先前預期的中點成長 5.3%，目前相當於年增 27.4%。我們的非公認會計準則稅率為 25%。根據 40 規則，我們的指導意味著 2025 年全年的範圍為 49 至 51。

During our past few earnings calls, we provided long-term growth targets for both revenue and adjusted EBITDA, our two primary financial metrics. We stated that our goal was to grow revenue at approximately 20% annually and to grow adjusted EBITDA dollars between 20% to 30% annually. The full-year 2025 guidance we have provided today is consistent with these long-term targets.

在過去幾次財報電話會議上，我們為兩個主要財務指標——收入和調整後的 EBITDA——設定了長期成長目標。我們表示，我們的目標是每年營收成長約 20%，調整後 EBITDA 成長 20% 至 30%。我們今天提供的 2025 年全年指引與這些長期目標一致。

Regarding contribution, profit, and operating expenses, which we consider secondary financial metrics, we plan to actively manage our operating expenses, dialing them up or down as necessary depending on how contribution profit is trending throughout the year to enable us to remain a Rule-of-40 company on an annual basis and also over long term. We managed this quite well throughout all of 2024 as well as for the first quarter of 2025. Based on our success to date, we believe we are well suited to keep managing this in the current year, given our strong operating leverage.

至於貢獻、利潤和營運費用（我們認為是次要的財務指標），我們計劃積極管理我們的營運費用，根據全年貢獻利潤的趨勢，根據需要增加或減少營運費用，以使我們能夠在年度和長期內保持 40 規則公司的地位。我們在 2024 年全年以及 2025 年第一季都做得相當好。根據我們迄今為止的成功，我們相信，憑藉強大的營運槓桿，我們很適合在今年繼續實現這一目標。

In summary, we started 2025 on a solid footing, reporting strong first-quarter results. Throughout the past several quarters, we have consistently demonstrated our ability to generate strong revenue, contribution profit, adjusted EBITDA, cash, and bookings growth. This enabled us to end the first quarter with a substantial backlog. Given our solid footing and strong visibility, we continue to believe we are well positioned for further growth in 2025.

總而言之，我們以堅實的基礎開啟了 2025 年，並​​報告了強勁的第一季業績。在過去的幾個季度中，我們始終如一地展示了創造強勁收入、貢獻利潤、調整後 EBITDA、現金和預訂量成長的能力。這使得我們能夠在第一季結束時擁有大量積壓訂單。鑑於我們堅實的基礎和強大的知名度，我們仍然相信我們已準備好在 2025 年實現進一步成長。

Thank you everyone for your attention today and now I turn it back to Dushyant for final remarks before we open up the call for questions.

感謝大家今天的關注，現在在我們開始提問之前，我把最後的發言時間交還給杜尚特。

Thanks, Sanjay.

謝謝，桑傑。

In closing, we started off 2025 with the same momentum that we had throughout all of 2024, which allowed us to deliver year over year growth in revenue, contribution profit, and adjusted EBITDA for the first quarter. We also entered the quarter with a strong bookings and backlog, which continues to support our positive outlook for the rest of 2025 and beyond.

最後，我們在 2025 年伊始就保持了與 2024 年全年相同的發展勢頭，這使我們能夠在第一季實現收入、貢獻利潤和調整後 EBITDA 的同比增長。本季度，我們的預訂量和積壓訂單量也十分強勁，這將繼續支持我們對 2025 年剩餘時間及以後的樂觀展望。

During the quarter, we paid close attention to the consumer and business payment trends in our vast network across multiple verticals, and we continue to see encouraging trends with no slowing down of any kind. I want to reaffirm that we believe based on the size of the opportunity ahead of us, we are just getting started and our best is yet to come.

在本季度，我們密切關注我們龐大網路中跨多個垂直領域的消費者和企業支付趨勢，我們繼續看到令人鼓舞的趨勢，且沒有任何放緩的跡象。我想重申的是，我們相信，基於眼前的機會規模，我們才剛起步，最好的時刻還沒到來。

This belief is based on five factors. First, we service the non-discretionary side of the domestic US economy. Second, we have a great technology platform and an ecosystem that continues to scale processing for hundreds of millions of payments. Third, as exciting as these numbers are, including our record EBITDA margin this quarter, they only tell part of the story.

這種信念是基於五個因素。首先，我們服務於美國國內經濟的非自由支配部分。其次，我們擁有強大的技術平台和生態系統，能夠持續擴大處理數億筆支付的規模。第三，儘管這些數字令人興奮，包括我們本季創紀錄的 EBITDA 利潤率，但它們只反映了部分情況。

A lot of our long-term innovation framework that is currently in our expense run rate does not yet provide the additional top line and marginal expansion opportunities that we expect will occur in outer years. This includes interchange monetization, meaning converting power of the interchange from a cost center to a revenue center, artificial intelligence, and other product investments we continue to make for increasing our TAM, including within our own customer base.

我們目前費用運行率中的許多長期創新框架尚未提供我們預計在未來幾年將出現的額外頂線和邊際擴張機會。這包括交換貨幣化，即將交換的力量從成本中心轉換為收入中心、人工智慧以及我們為增加 TAM 而繼續進行的其他產品投資，包括在我們自己的客戶群內。

Fourth, we have a big customer base and a partner ecosystem along with a sizable portion of US households and businesses that are already using our platform on a regular basis, giving us an ever-growing distribution network for our future innovative product offerings and a possibility of a perpetual growth engine. Fifth, we have a phenomenal team of dedicated professionals helping us achieve a long-term vision. So it is very humbling to reflect on these and other dimensions that we believe set a stage for a very bright future ahead for Paymentus.

第四，我們擁有龐大的客戶群和合作夥伴生態系統，同時相當一部分美國家庭和企業已經在定期使用我們的平台，這為我們未來的創新產品提供了不斷增長的分銷網絡，並有可能成為永久的增長引擎。第五，我們擁有一支出色的專業團隊，幫助我們實現長遠願景。因此，當我們回顧這些以及其他方面時，我們感到非常謙卑，我們相信這些方面為 Paymentus 的光明未來奠定了基礎。

On that note, I also want to thank all of my team members for their continued efforts and dedication to our company's success.

在此，我還要感謝我的所有團隊成員為我們公司的成功所做的持續努力和奉獻。

That concludes our prepared remarks. I'll now open the line up for questions.

我們的準備好的演講到此結束。我現在開始回答問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Dave Koning, Baird.

戴夫·科寧，貝爾德。

Yeah, hey guys, thank you and nice job again.

是的，嘿夥計們，再次感謝你們，你們幹得好。

I guess for my first question, transaction growth for many quarters now has been in a nice 25% to 35% range or 28% this quarter. How much of that is new clients growing and how much is like same store sales, existing clients, and has that changed much the last couple quarters into this quarter?

我想對於我的第一個問題，目前許多季度的交易成長率一直處於 25% 至 35% 的良好範圍內，本季為 28%。其中有多少是新客戶成長，有多少是同店銷售額、現有客戶成長，以及這些與過去幾季相比本季有很大變化嗎？

Hey Dave, thanks for the question. Appreciate it.

嘿，戴夫，謝謝你的提問。非常感謝。

Interesting trends which we are seeing since the past many quarters, I would say the business is growing nicely in both the growth vectors, i.e. the new customers going live and the same store sales. I would say, at this point the year has just begun and these trends are changing over time as we are onboarding a lot of customers and in various different verticals.

我們從過去的幾個季度中看到了有趣的趨勢，我想說業務在兩個成長向量上都呈現良好的成長勢頭，即新客戶上線和同店銷售額。我想說，今年才剛開始，隨著我們吸收大量客戶並涉足不同垂直領域，這些趨勢也隨著時間而改變。

And as the business expands more and diversifies more, these trends overall could change and they could move around quarter to quarter. But I think it's at this point, the growth from new implementations over the last year, I would say is a bigger piece than same store sales. The same store sales are also growing nicely, and in all the verticals.

隨著業務的不斷擴展和多樣化，這些趨勢總體上可能會發生變化，並且可能會逐季度變化。但我認為，就這一點而言，我認為去年新實施業務的成長比同店銷售額的成長更為顯著。同店銷售也呈現良好成長勢頭，且涵蓋所有垂直領域。

So I won't be able to quantify both of them separately, but I would say both of them are growing at a very good pace and they are very comparable to the growth we've seen in the past. And kind of the customer mix we have in our pipeline and backlog today give us kind of a good feeling and good assessment based on their transaction history that a similar trend should continue. And we feel very good about where we are.

因此我無法分別量化它們，但我想說它們都以非常好的速度增長，並且與我們過去看到的增長非常相似。我們目前在通路和積壓訂單中的客戶組合讓我們根據他們的交易歷史有一種良好的感覺和良好的評估，即類似的趨勢應該會持續下去。我們對目前的狀況感到非常滿意。

Okay, that sounds great. And I guess my second question.

好的，聽起來不錯。我想這是我的第二個問題。

Net revenue contribution profit you're guiding up sequentially is very normal. Gross revenue has been up for many quarters in a row, but you're guiding that down sequentially. Maybe what's the dynamic there that we would have gross revenue actually come down? Is there something not recurring in the gross part of the revenue line?

您所引導的淨收入貢獻利潤連續上升是非常正常的。總收入已連續多個季度上升，但您卻將其控制在連續下降的水平。也許是什麼原因導致我們的總收入實際上下降？收入總額部分是否有未重複出現的情況？

So let me begin by explaining our large enterprise customers. This is kind of call it a different segment of our customers who have just started since 2024. In Q3 we onboarded these large customers and we have not seen a full cycle, i.e. a full four-quarter cycle of these customers to understand the dynamics carefully about how their growth patterns will be. And they are a significant part of our trend.

首先讓我介紹一下我們的大型企業客戶。這可以說是自 2024 年才開始使用我們的不同客戶群。在第三季度，我們接納了這些大客戶，但我們還沒有看到一個完整的週期，即這些客戶的完整四個季度週期，以仔細了解他們的成長模式的動態。它們是我們趨勢的重要組成部分。

And what is unknown to us is that the growth which we are seeing in the last 2.5 quarters which are behind us is that growth mainly because of seasonality in their business, or is it primarily due to the advantage these large enterprise customers are getting because of our platform which is giving them an opportunity to scale beyond what we and they were originally expecting.

我們不知道的是，過去 2.5 個季度的成長主要是因為他們業務的季節性，還是主要因為這些大型企業客戶透過我們的平台獲得的優勢，這讓他們有機會超越我們和他們最初的預期。

So I think we need kind of four quarters history or a run rate to assess that we were actually in a very similar position just three months before or I would say two months before when we were guiding for Q1. And we still exceeded that expectation.

因此，我認為我們需要四個季度的歷史記錄或運行率來評估我們在三個月前或兩個月前的第一季指導時是否處於非常相似的位置。但我們仍然超出了這個預期。

We are kind of taking a very similar stance in guiding for Q2. We are taking our original expectations which we had, i.e. in Q3 of 24, that what would be the run rate for Q2 of this quarter. And if that exceeds or said differently, if that follows the trend, what we saw in the last quarter and the quarter before, there might be an upside to revenue, but we've taken a prudent posture in terms of how we should guide. We just want to keep our heads straight there, and we want to march and execute and perform. We don't want to count our chickens before they hatch.

我們在第二季的指導中採取了非常相似的立場。我們根據最初的預期，即 24 年第三季的預期，預測本季第二季的運行率。如果這個數字超過或換句話說，如果這個數字符合我們在上一季和上上一季看到的趨勢，那麼收入可能會有所上升，但我們對如何引導採取了謹慎的態度。我們只想保持頭腦清醒，繼續前進、執行並履行職責。我們不想未雨綢繆。

So that's the strategy and you're absolutely right. Based on seasonality, the CP is going to go up in Q2 compared to Q1, which is incorporated in our guidance, but the revenue uplift may happen if the trend continues. If not, the impact on CP will not be as significant, I think, and we factor that in our guidance.

這就是策略，你完全正確。根據季節性，第二季的 CP 將比第一季有所上升，這已納入我們的預期，但如果這種趨勢持續下去，收入可能會上升。如果不是，我認為對 CP 的影響就不會那麼顯著，我們會將這一點納入我們的指導中。

Got you. Great job guys. Thank you.

明白了。幹得好，夥計們。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Andrew Polkowitz, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的安德魯波爾科維茨 (Andrew Polkowitz)。

Hey, good afternoon, guys. Thank you for taking my question.

嘿，大家下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。

First question, I wanted to ask, you spoke to the consumers, of your clients being very durable and in very durable categories. I was curious if you've noticed any change in sale cycles or pace of implementation with customers that are to be on board and given the incremental macro uncertainty over the past month or so.

第一個問題，我想問，您與消費者交談過，您的客戶非常耐用，並且屬於非常耐用的類別。我很好奇，考慮到過去一個月左右宏觀不確定性的增加，您是否注意到銷售週期或客戶實施速度發生了任何變化。

We're not seeing any change to speak of. In fact, as I called it out in the opening remarks that we have been watching the trends in Q1 very carefully, oth for the consumers on our platform but as well as our business affairs, and we're not seeing any changes there. And in terms of the implementation speed as we as we talked about, we seem to be doing well there as well. All the investments we have made, but also the face-to-face interactions, especially with large enterprise clients actually continues to help us there. So we are not seeing any -- and our pipelines are looking strong and bookings were good.

我們沒有看到任何值得一提的改變。事實上，正如我在開場白中提到的那樣，我們一直在密切關注第一季的趨勢，不僅針對我們平台上的消費者，也針對我們的業務，我們沒有看到任何變化。就我們談到的實施速度而言，我們似乎也做得很好。我們所做的所有投資以及面對面的互動，特別是與大型企業客戶的互動實際上都在繼續幫助我們。因此，我們沒有看到任何問題——我們的管道看起來很強勁，預訂量也很好。

Okay, that's helpful. And then just my one followup on Sanjay.

好的，這很有幫助。接下來是我對 Sanjay 的一次跟進。

You mentioned that you have a liquidity for M&A if necessary. I was curious what types of deals would be attracted to you guys whether it's just for further distribution, you mentioned the partner channel already or if there's capabilities you'd want to add to your platform. Thank you, guys.

您提到，如有必要，您擁有用於併購的流動性。我很好奇什麼類型的交易會吸引你們，是否只是為了進一步分銷，您已經提到了合作夥伴管道，或者是否有您想要添加到您的平台的功能。謝謝你們。

I'll say, M&A opportunity is something which is kind of our secondary objective, if I call. So we've got a good organic business and organic growth is good, doing really well based on our bookings and pipeline and implementation base. And our cash is going at a decent level. In fact, this was a record quarter we generated $41 million in free cash flow and we are proud of it.

如果我打電話的話，我會說，併購機會是我們的次要目標。因此，我們擁有良好的有機業務，有機成長也很好，根據我們的預訂、管道和實施基礎，表現非常好。我們的現金流處於良好水平。事實上，這是一個創紀錄的季度，我們創造了 4,100 萬美元的自由現金流，我們對此感到自豪。

Now this cash is giving us a situation that, okay, how do we invest it so M&A is not something which is our primary objective. Again, I'll point out that it is something we will only do if something great comes to us. And as we get a lot of books to take a look at, nothing has intrigued us yet. We want to make the right decision for the shareholders of the company. As far as an opportunity provides us a right return on the investment and it makes sense for longer term, we will do it.

現在這些現金為我們帶來了一種情況，好吧，我們如何投資它，所以併購不是我們的首要目標。再次，我要指出，只有當我們遇到偉大的事情時，我們才會這麼做。儘管我們收到了很多書，但還沒有一本書引起我們的興趣。我們希望為公司股東做出正確的決定。只要機會能為我們提供正確的投資回報，並且具有長期意義，我們就會去做。

By the way, currently there is no need for us to do any M&A. There is no feature missing. There is no vertical which we want to acquire. There's nothing predetermined. There is no set criteria of what we are going after. We just are trying to see what makes sense and could be a creative to our shareholders, so I would say it's too early to get into what kind of M&A it will be. But we are just being cognizant of what's going on in the market and we will do the right decision if the right opportunity comes. But as of now, no certain criteria is set.

順便說一句，目前我們沒有必要進行任何併購。沒有任何功能缺失。我們沒有想要收購的垂直產業。沒有什麼是預先決定的。對於我們所追求的目標，並沒有既定的標準。我們只是想看看什麼是有意義的，對我們的股東來說什麼是有創意的，所以我認為現在討論這將是什麼樣的併購還為時過早。但我們只是意識到市場正在發生什麼，如果有合適的機會，我們就會做出正確的決定。但截至目前，尚未設定明確的標準。

And I think the main reason -- this is Dushyant, the main reason Sanjay wanted to call this out and we talked about calling this out in the opening remarks is that I think it's a very -- it's quite humbling to be in a position where we have if I may say this quarter of a billion dollars in the bank account and we are generating cash and frankly be in a strong position where our platform itself is driving the growth of our business organically and we don't need to do anything so that allows us to be very selective as Sanjay talked about.

我認為主要原因——這是 Dushyant，Sanjay 想要指出這一點的主要原因，我們在開場白中也談到了這一點，因為我認為這是非常——能夠處於這樣的位置，我感到非常謙卑，我可以說，我們的銀行帳戶裡有 2.5 億美元，我們正在產生現金，坦率地說，我們處於一個強大的位置，我們的平臺本身正在推動業務談到的那樣。

Very clear, thank you again and congrats in the quarter.

非常清楚，再次感謝您並祝賀本季。

Thanks, Andrew.

謝謝，安德魯。

John Davis, Raymond James.

約翰戴維斯、雷蒙詹姆斯。

Hey, good afternoon, guys.

嘿，大家下午好。

Sanjay, obviously, I think the thing that stuck out the most this quarter is the free cash flow. I think it's about 50% more than you generated in all of '24. You called out some change in working capital, but any other comments there, is there a way we should think about free cash flow conversion as a percentage of adjusted income or EBITDA just that really stuck out is being really strong in the quarter and just curious what's driving how we should think about it to the balance of '25.

桑傑，顯然，我認為本季最突出的是自由現金流。我認為這比你 24 年全年創造的收入高出約 50%。您提到了營運資本的一些變化，但還有其他評論嗎？我們是否應該將自由現金流轉換為調整後收入或 EBITDA 的百分比，這在本季度真正突出，表現非常強勁，我只是好奇是什麼推動了我們應該如何看待它到 25 年的平衡。

John, thanks for the question. I think it's interesting to see that over time we have been increasing our working capital every quarter. If you look at the trend of, say, at least this last eight quarters, right? With good EBITDA, cash generation as well. But cash fluctuates quarter to quarter, and I mean this is the first time we've seen our cash to be ratio actually exceeds 100%. We would like to see that every quarter, but it's not going to be possible to have it every quarter.

約翰，謝謝你的提問。我認為有趣的是，隨著時間的推移，我們每季都在增加營運資金。如果您看一下至少過去八個季度的趨勢，對嗎？擁有良好的 EBITDA，現金產生能力也很好。但現金每季都在波動，我的意思是這是我們第一次看到現金比率實際上超過 100%。我們希望每個季度都能看到這種情況，但不可能每季都能看到。

To set the expectation, I think the right thing to think about is that in one full year we will generate cash and we will generate decent cash after paying taxes, as our tax rate is close to 25%. So the right way to think about is that our EBTIDA, if you take out the cap software which is kind of getting consistent now, every quarter to quarter, I think that should be the right way to think about the cash flow.

為了設定預期，我認為正確的做法是，在整整一年內我們將產生現金，並且在繳稅後我們將產生可觀的現金，因為我們的稅率接近 25%。因此，正確的思考方式是，我們的 EBTIDA，如果您取出現在每個季度都保持一致的上限軟體，我認為這應該是思考現金流的正確方式。

Working capital needs are not easy to estimate because we are scaling the business and the scale could happen in a way that our working capital may be needed but we are in a great position, very favorable position to have enough liquidity that we can fund the working capital. So I won't be able to give you a precise formula, John, to estimate our free cash flow conversion every quarter. But I would say it can fluctuate quarter to quarter. I think this quarter we've done a wonderful job and although I would like to continue the same trend every quarter, but there are no guarantees of that. I just look at it on an annual basis and spread it evenly if that makes that makes sense.

營運資金需求不容易估計，因為我們正在擴大業務規模，規模擴大後可能需要營運資金，但我們處於非常有利的位置，擁有足夠的流動資金來為營運資金提供資金。因此，約翰，我無法給你一個精確的公式來估算我們每季的自由現金流轉換率。但我想說的是，它可能每季都會有波動。我認為本季我們做得非常出色，儘管我希望每季都能延續同樣的趨勢，但這並不能保證。我只是按年度來看待它，如果這樣有意義的話，就將其均勻地分配。

And if I may say, (multiple speakers) sorry, John, I was just going to add one more point to this that one of the things which is getting even more exciting for us as a team here is that as the business is scaling and we're generating more EBTIDA dollars and as Sanjay pointed out, our cap software remains fairly consistent, although we continue to make investments as I pointed out, I think more of our EBITDA dollars are going to the cash line.

如果我可以說，（多位發言者）抱歉，約翰，我只是想再補充一點，對我們團隊來說，更令人興奮的事情之一是，隨著業務規模的擴大，我們正在產生更多的 EBITDA 美元，正如桑傑指出的那樣，我們的上限軟體保持相當一致，儘管我們繼續進行投資，但正如我指出的那樣，我認為我們的更多 EBITDA 美元將用於現金線。

Yeah, I mean, if I may add our business anyway has a strong operating leverage on the P&L, but I think the operating leverage on cash should get better in in our view subject to what working capital cash is needed every quarter.

是的，我的意思是，如果我可以補充的話，我們的業務在損益表上具有強大的經營槓桿，但我認為，根據我們的觀點，現金的經營槓桿應該會變得更好，這取決於每個季度所需的營運資金現金。

Okay, no, that's helpful. And then I want to follow up on Dave's question between the spread of kind of gross profit, or sorry, gross revenue and contribution profit. Obviously, gross revenue has been growing well in excess of contribution profit over the last several quarters. And if I look, the guide in the back half of this year implies that they grow more similarly actually, I think contribution profit. It's implied to grow a little bit faster than gross revenue in the second half, maybe 100 basis points or so.

好的，不，這很有幫助。然後我想跟進戴夫關於毛利，或者說總收入和貢獻利潤之間的差距的問題。顯然，過去幾季的總收入成長遠遠超過了貢獻利潤的成長。如果我看一下，今年下半年的指南表明它們實際上的成長更加相似，我認為是貢獻利潤。這意味著下半年的成長速度將比總收入略快一些，大概是 100 個基點左右。

And based on your comments to Dave's question, I just want to make sure I understand this. It sounds like you guys have a pretty good handle on what you expect from a contribution profit perspective, but the gross revenue is a little bit more, so another way your contribution profit guide is maybe less conservative than your gross revenue guide. And anything else to call out there, obviously, that's just I mean it's been a huge gap and it's narrowing. Is that the right way to think about going forward, is just more conservatism and gross revenue? Any other comments you could add there?

根據您對戴夫的問題的評論，我只是想確保我理解這一點。聽起來你們對貢獻利潤角度的預期有很好的把握，但總收入要多一點，所以從另一個角度來說，你們的貢獻利潤指南可能不如總收入指南保守。還有什麼需要指出的，顯然，我的意思是，差距曾經很大，而且正在縮小。這是思考未來的正確方式嗎？只是更加保守和總收入嗎？您還有其他評論可以補充嗎？

Yeah, John, you've got a great read on the guidance, and you're absolutely right. I would say what I explained to earlier Dave's question is the large enterprise customers which are doing really well, they are exceeding our expectations, and we just want to keep our heads straight and not count that excess of expectations which have been achieved in the last two quarters to continue unless they happen.

是的，約翰，你對這份指南讀得很透徹，而且你完全正確。我想說的是，我之前對戴夫的問題的解釋是，大型企業客戶的表現非常好，他們超出了我們的預期，我們只是想保持頭腦清醒，不要指望過去兩個季度已經實現的超出預期的情況會繼續下去，除非它們真的發生了。

But interesting part is these enterprise customers, as they get volume discounts, so there is a softer margin on them, compared to our overall business. Hence, I would say there is more upside on revenue than contribution profit if that's the way you were interpreting, I think that's absolutely right. So we have more opportunity on revenue, I would say. And that's a part of it is prudence on our part that how we've seen and how the business has performed and we just don't want to take any chance once we see a full four-quarter cycle of these large customers.

但有趣的是，這些企業客戶由於獲得批量折扣，因此與我們的整體業務相比，他們的利潤率較低。因此，我想說，如果您是這樣解讀的，那麼收入的成長空間比貢獻利潤更大，我認為這是絕對正確的。因此我想說，我們在收入方面有更多的機會。這是我們謹慎行事的一部分，我們看到了業務的表現，一旦我們看到這些大客戶的完整四個季度週期，我們就不想冒任何風險。

And if I may also add, I think John, as part of the overall strategy for us is to continue to bring as many interchange dollars in our P&L as we can as part of market capture as that will be a long-term plan for us to go after converting part of that expansion into a revenue source.

而且如果我還可以補充一點的話，我認為約翰，作為我們整體戰略的一部分，我們將盡可能多地在我們的損益表中引入交換美元，作為市場佔領的一部分，因為這將是我們的一個長期計劃，將部分擴張轉化為收入來源。

Okay appreciate the color. Thanks, guys.

好的，欣賞顏色。謝謝大家。

Thank you, John.

謝謝你，約翰。

Matt O'Neill, FT Partners.

馬特·奧尼爾（Matt O'Neill），FT Partners。

Yeah. Hi, gentlemen thanks for taking my question.

是的。嗨，先生們，感謝您回答我的問題。

I was curious if you could remind us a little bit historically on potentially some of the virtues of Paymentus in a tougher macro and so what I'm getting at is, Dushyant, you started the call with some of the defensiveness of the business, right, focusing on utilities and things like phone insurance payments, etc.

我很好奇，您是否可以從歷史上回顧一下 Paymentus 在更嚴峻的宏觀環境下可能具有的一些優點，我的意思是，Dushyant，您在電話會議開始時談到了業務的一些防禦性，對吧，重點關注公用事業和電話保險支付等。

But is there a scenario where billers actually seek out Paymentus more so in an economic downturn because using your solutions improves conversion and makes it easier for the ultimate customers to pay their bills and things like that. Is that a good way to think about their potentially actually being an upside here? Thanks.

但是否存在這樣的情況：在經濟低迷時期，帳單開立者實際上會更多地尋求 Paymentus 的服務，因為使用您的解決方案可以提高轉換率，並使最終客戶更容易支付帳單等。這是思考他們實際上可能具有優勢的好方法嗎？謝謝。

That's a great question actually. And frankly, we have gone through multiple economic cycles and some events and even though each event has their own personality, but we continue to grow our business in in all of those scenarios. And part of the reason is exactly what you called out that our value proposition on its own is so strong because with our platform, with our ecosystem, our technology and innovation framework, we are able to actually reduce the cost to serve for our clients, especially as the electronic billing adoption -- electronic billing and payment adoption is more mainstream now than it used to be, meaning there is more opportunities for efficiencies to be gained for any enterprise of any size, especially the larger end of the market.

這確實是一個很好的問題。坦白說，我們經歷了多個經濟週期和一些事件，儘管每個事件都有自己的特點，但我們在所有這些情況下都繼續發展我們的業務。部分原因正如您所說，我們的價值主張本身非常強大，因為憑藉我們的平台、生態系統、技術和創新框架，我們能夠真正降低為客戶提供服務的成本，尤其是隨著電子賬單的採用——電子賬單和支付的採用現在比以前更加主流，這意味著任何規模的企業，尤其是較大的市場端，都有更多的機會提高效率。

They are looking for ways to reduce the cost to serve, and that is not about transaction pricing. At this stage they all know transaction pricing actually is not the biggest cost center for them. It is all the other workflows which take place to actually bring the payment in the door. So we are with our platform, the holistic view of the platform, we are able to solve some of those problems while also improving the customer experience.

他們正在尋找降低服務成本的方法，而這與交易定價無關。在這個階段，他們都知道交易定價其實不是他們最大的成本中心。所有其他工作流程其實都是為了讓付款順利完成。因此，透過我們的平台和平台的整體視圖，我們能夠解決其中的一些問題，同時改善客戶體驗。

Combined that with our pricing model which is we don't charge anything for upfront investments and so on because how well deeply integrated we already are in the billing ecosystem today across all the software industries and the verticals we currently serve. So from that perspective, I think our value proposition continues to resonate.

結合我們的定價模式，我們不收取任何前期投資等費用，因為我們目前已經與所有軟體產業和我們目前服務的垂直產業的計費生態系統深度整合。因此從這個角度來看，我認為我們的價值主張將繼續引起共鳴。

In a difficult scenario where there's a downturn, I think when folks are looking for ways to bring their revenues faster in the door and to look for opportunities where more and more customers use more and more efficient and modern channels to make a payment, I think our name comes pretty much right there at the top and as one of the strategies to bring that to bear.

在經濟低迷的困難情況下，我認為當人們正在尋找更快增加收入的方法，並尋找機會讓越來越多的客戶使用越來越高效和現代化的管道進行支付時，我們的名字幾乎排在首位，並且是實現這一目標的策略之一。

Thanks, Dushyant. And I guess just as a follow up, have you, guys, even anecdotally seen any changes in the business, whether it's from your customer's perspective as far as the pipeline or the underlying customers of all the billers you serve, are there any behavioral changes there. I know your business is almost exclusively driven on a revenue-per-transaction basis, so the dollar amounts are less impactful, although it does impact the cost side a little bit. But have bills kind of all else equal gone up or down or otherwise changed from your observations?

謝謝，杜尚特。我想作為後續問題，你們有沒有聽說過業務有任何變化，無論是從客戶的角度來看，就渠道而言，還是從你們服務的所有收費員的底層客戶的角度來看，那裡有任何行為變化嗎？我知道您的業務幾乎完全以每筆交易的收入為基礎，因此美元金額的影響較小，儘管它確實對成本方面有一點影響。但是從您的觀察來看，在其他條件不變的情況下，帳單價格是上漲了、下跌了還是發生了其他變化？

So we are seeing encouraging trends actually all across the board currently.

因此，我們目前實際上看到了各方面令人鼓舞的趨勢。

Great. Thanks so much.

偉大的。非常感謝。

Thank you, Matt.

謝謝你，馬特。

Andrew Bauch, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的安德魯·鮑赫。

Hey, guys, thanks for taking the question. It's Lamar on for Andrew. I have a follow up on the large enterprise but -- hey, [Sanjay] and Dushyant.

嘿，夥計們，謝謝你們回答這個問題。拉馬爾替換安德魯。我對大型企業有後續了解，但——嘿，[Sanjay] 和 Dushyant。

I have a follow up on the large enterprise billers. And I understand that you guys are being cautious around how they trend and kind of waiting for a full-year cycle to gain better visibility and confidence, but it still outperformed your internal expectations again and so I guess with another quarter of them under your belt. Any early learnings that you may be able to share in relation to these larger billers and then is it fair to say that the sales momentum that you saw with them in 2024 has that sustained or even accelerated into 2025 given the micro uncertainty that we're seeing?

我對大型企業帳單進行了跟進。我知道你們對趨勢持謹慎態度，希望等待全年周期才能獲得更好的可見性和信心，但它仍然再次超出了你們的內部預期，所以我想你們已經取得了另一個季度的成績。關於這些較大的帳單提供者，您能否分享一些早期的經驗？考慮到我們所看到的微觀不確定性，是否可以說您在 2024 年看到的銷售勢頭已經持續甚至加速到 2025 年？

Lamar, that's a great question. I will have Sanjay, come in on most of the question. But I'll just start by saying that one of the exciting aspects which is giving us as a team a lot of great feeling for 2025 and beyond is exactly the trend we observed. We're expecting certain things from the new customers we are onboarding and, based on the benefit that our platform, our customers are able to enjoy, which is leading to higher adoption of our services, converting more from paper processes to electronic processes It is actually helping increase our TAM even within that same customer base earlier than we were anticipating. So some of those trends are hard to predict until you've gone through the entire cycle.

拉馬爾，這個問題問得非常好。我會讓桑傑來回答大部分問題。但我首先要說的是，令人興奮的一點是，我們觀察到的趨勢正是我們團隊對 2025 年及以後充滿期待的趨勢。我們對新客戶有一定的期望，基於我們平台的優勢，我們的客戶能夠享受這些優勢，這將導致我們服務的採用率更高，將更多的紙質流程轉換為電子流程，這實際上有助於在同一客戶群中比我們預期的更快地提高我們的 TAM。因此，除非你經歷整個週期，否則有些趨勢很難預測。

But I'll have Sanjay comment on the back of it.

但我會讓桑傑對此作出評論。

I'll say mainly for the same store sales part of your question, Lamar, the trends which we are observed like only for say 2.5 quarters, although again I would caveat that that's not representative of how it'll happen. It could happen, it may not. But the last 2.5 quarters, the trends have been fairly decent. They have been pretty much similar to what we see in other parts of the business, whether they are mid-market clients or small clients or large clients. I think they've been pretty much similar, in similar in range.

拉馬爾，我主要想說的是，針對你問題中同店銷售的部分，我們觀察到的趨勢只持續了 2.5 個季度，但我再次提醒，這並不代表它會如何發生。這有可能發生，也可能不會。但過去 2.5 個季度，趨勢相當不錯。它們與我們在其他業務領域看到的非常相似，無論它們是中型客戶、小型客戶還是大型客戶。我認為它們非常相似，範圍也相似。

The interesting part on this is that these customers are helping us get similar customers or large customers which are in our pipeline as of now and we see good opportunities around the horizon to see good performance in the outer years. And one of the interesting pieces of the enterprise customers is together with giving an opportunity for the pipeline, I think the quality of -- or the feedback which we are getting from the customers is pretty much helping us across the board, even in small size clients.

有趣的是，這些客戶正在幫助我們獲得類似的客戶或大客戶，這些客戶目前已在我們的管道中，我們看到了未來幾年取得良好業績的良好機會。企業客戶的一個有趣之處在於，除了為管道提供機會之外，我認為我們從客戶那裡獲得的品質或回饋對我們有很大幫助，即使是對於小型客戶也是如此。

So I think it's just we've got many household names as well now in our pipeline. So that's the additional benefits I would say. But in terms of trends we are feeling very good about what we have seen so far.

所以我認為我們現在也已經有很多家喻戶曉的名字在我們的頻道中。這就是我想說的額外好處。但就趨勢而言，我們對目前所看到的情況感到非常滿意。

Okay. Thanks. Makes sense and great job on the quarter.

好的。謝謝。很有意義，本季做得很好。

Thank you, Lamar.

謝謝你，拉馬爾。

Darrin Peller, Wolfe Research.

達林·佩勒（Darrin Peller），沃爾夫研究公司。

Hey guys, nice job on the quarter here, I guess just I think really revisiting your ability to scale into these into incremental verticals has continued to impress us.

嘿，夥計們，本季度你們做得很好，我想我只是認為重新審視你們將這些業務擴展到增量垂直領域的能力給我們留下了深刻的印象。

So maybe what are the latest trends you're seeing in terms of demand across moving beyond utilities or some of the categories that you've been in for some time and really understanding some of the areas around, obviously, healthcare, insurance, education, even government, I know. So what's the latest in terms of what you're seeing the most demand from that's incremental. Where is it resonating and maybe what are the driving factors of differentiation you're offering that's resonating in those areas more recently.

那麼，也許您看到的最新趨勢是超越公用事業或您已經涉足一段時間的某些類別的需求，並且真正了解一些領域，顯然是醫療保健、保險、教育，甚至政府，我知道。那麼，就您所看到的最大增量需求而言，最新情況是什麼？它在哪裡引起共鳴，也許您提供的差異化驅動因素是什麼，最近在這些領域引起了共鳴。

Yeah, it's a great question.

是的，這是一個很好的問題。

One of the things I would say is that we wanted to do the exact same analysis of our bookings in Q1 compared to the year-over-year bookings in verticals, and we are very excited actually to see how well our verticals, not just utilities, which is growing rapidly and continues to do well. As sizable as that is, but all the other verticals you named are doing well as well and growing pretty fast.

我想說的一件事是，我們希望對第一季的訂單量與垂直行業的同比訂單量進行完全相同的分析，我們非常高興地看到我們的垂直行業（不僅僅是公用事業）表現得如此出色，而且增長迅速並繼續表現良好。儘管這個數字相當可觀，但您提到的所有其他垂直行業也都表現良好，並且增長相當快。

The primary value proposition actually is what we are noticing is and what we believe will eventually be the case in our view of the long term view of the bill payment market, clients want a platform that is proven, that is tested, that is able to handle scale, withstand all the complexities and sophistication of the workflows, and is still able to provide the best customer experience.

主要的價值主張實際上是我們注意到的，我們相信從帳單支付市場的長期觀點來看，最終會出現這樣的情況：客戶想要一個經過驗證、經過測試、能夠處理規模、承受工作流程的所有複雜性和精密性，並且仍然能夠提供最佳客戶體驗的平台。

We do not believe the single-purpose use case where a platform is designed for one particular industry offers any more capabilities to a billing company once they reached the mainstream of adoption beyond the initial stage and the early adopters and so on. Once you reach the mainstream, everyone knows that consumers are looking -- consumers are the same.

我們不相信，為某個特定行業設計的平台的單一用途用例會​​在計費公司超越初始階段和早期採用者等進入主流採用階段後為其提供更多功能。一旦你進入主流，每個人都知道消費者在關注──消費者是一樣的。

I'm the same consumer who's paying my phone bill as well as my insurance bill as well as my healthcare bill and my utility bill. And Paymentus as pervasive as we're getting, we are becoming a more well-known name even for the consumers and the businesses, business payers who are using our platform as they go from different places to different places and across the country.

我是消費者，我支付電話費、保險費、醫療費和水電費。隨著 Paymentus 的普及，我們的名字也越來越為消費者、企業和企業付款人所熟知，他們從不同地方到不同地方，甚至遍布全國，都在使用我們的平台。

Okay, so it sounds like it's a similar value problem at the end of the day, but I mean, I just wonder if that's, yeah, that's it's great to see. I guess one quick follow up more on the financial side, Sanjay, would just be just when we talk about the operating leverage in the business, obviously you guys have shown pretty amazing margin expansion consistently, from your perspective, I mean what just remind us on your maybe longer-term targets.

好的，聽起來這最終是一個類似的價值問題，但我的意思是，我只是想知道這是否是，是的，這很高興看到。桑傑，我想在財務方面再快速跟進一下，當我們談論業務中的經營槓桿時，顯然你們一直表現出相當驚人的利潤率擴張，從你的角度來看，我的意思是提醒我們你的長期目標。

What kind of operating margins you see this business getting to. Is there anything between now and then that might change the types of incremental margin profile and we're seeing on the new business you're adding would be helpful. Thanks, guys.

您認為該業務的營業利益率能達到多少？從現在到那時，是否有什麼事情可能會改變增量利潤率的類型，並且我們看到您添加的新業務將會有所幫助。謝謝大家。

I'll say achieving 34.2% margin in this quarter, which is a record, definitely we are proud of that. And while we all would like to march on that path and get even better every quarter and why not, right? We've got a great operating leverage and the business is scaling. But I think it's not prudent on our part to talk about how the long term will shape up. The only guidance we provide for the longer-term vision is our top line. We expect would continue to grow 20% annually and EBITDA margin dollars would expand between 20% and 30%. As our latest up to date full-year guidance reflects today at the high end, both of these metrics actually are ahead of these long-term targets.

我想說本季的利潤率達到了 34.2%，這是一個創紀錄的成績，我們對此感到非常自豪。而我們都希望沿著這條道路前進，每個季度都變得更好，為什麼不呢，對吧？我們擁有強大的經營槓桿，業務不斷擴大。但我認為，我們談論長期前景如何並不明智。我們為長期願景提供的唯一指引就是我們的營收。我們預計年成長率將持續達到 20%，EBITDA 利潤率將擴大 20% 至 30%。正如我們今天最新的全年指引所反映的那樣，這兩個指標實際上都領先於這些長期目標。

So coming to the EBITDA margin, I would say that's kind of the balancing figure. That's not something which drives us is the product of our business and operating efficiency should deliver good results. We dropped more than 50% incremental contribution profit to the bottom line and as new business scales and as far as we spend correctly by calibrating our contribution profit, our OpEx has to be calibrated as so that will derive the results.

因此，談到 EBITDA 利潤率，我想說這是一種平衡數字。這不是推動我們前進的動力，而是我們業務的成果和營運效率應該會帶來良好的結果。我們將超過 50% 的增量貢獻利潤降到了底線，隨著新業務規模的擴大，只要我們透過校準貢獻利潤來正確支出，我們的營運支出就必須進行校準，這樣才能獲得結果。

But there could be quarters I would say down that we could decide to spend extra and make extra investments in the business as we have to scale and capture more pipelines, convert the bookings we might have to spend extra times. But that could be in quarters, not overall I would say. So I would say longer term we have good expectations for EBITDA margin. I can't give a number.

但我想說，在未來的幾個季度裡，我們可能會決定額外支出，並在業務上進行額外投資，因為我們必須擴大規模，獲得更多管道，轉換預訂，我們可能需要花費額外的時間。但我認為這可能是分季來看的，而不是整體來看的。因此我想說，從長期來看，我們對 EBITDA 利潤率抱持良好的預期。我無法給出一個數字。

Okay, all right. Nice work, guys. Thanks.

好的，好的。幹得好，夥計們。謝謝。

Thank you, Darren.

謝謝你，達倫。

William Nance, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的威廉·南斯。

Hey, guys, I appreciate you taking the question.

嘿，夥計們，感謝你們回答這個問題。

Nice to see some of the channel partnership announcements today. Dushyant, wondering if you could spend some time just giving an update on the channel distribution strategy. What's the makeup of your current kind of go to market resources today and how does the new business kind of, distribute across various channels? Appreciate it.

很高興今天看到一些通路合作公告。Dushyant，想知道您是否可以花一些時間介紹一下通路分銷策略的最新情況。您目前的市場資源組成是怎樣的？新業務在各通路的分佈如何？非常感謝。

Sure. Hey, Will. We are -- actually the channel partners, we call out the channel partners have become a very important and a strategic part of our go-to-market strategy in conjunction with our direct go-to-market and we are seeing that a combination of direct strategy with channel partners in different verticals, as well as the size -- regardless of the size of the customers, it actually does help achieve the type of efficient go-to-market strategy we are seeking as we are scaling the business.

當然。嘿，威爾。我們實際上是通路合作夥伴，我們呼籲通路合作夥伴與我們的直接行銷相結合，成為我們行銷策略中非常重要且策略性的一部分，我們看到直接策略與不同垂直領域的通路合作夥伴的結合，以及規模——無論客戶規模如何，它實際上確實有助於實現我們在擴大業務時所尋求的高效行銷策略。

So today channel -- if you would have asked like 10 years ago or 8 years ago or even 6 years ago, channel partner would be a smaller part of our business than it is today. Channel partners continue to be -- continue to add increasing value to our pipeline and the bookings. But at the same time we believe one of the best things we have done is we have remained, in all verticals we go after, we have remained active ourselves so that we can learn from the customers, we can learn from the market, we can learn from the pricing.

因此，今天的管道——如果你在 10 年前、8 年前甚至 6 年前問的話，通路夥伴在我們業務中所佔的比例會比現在要小。通路合作夥伴持續為我們的通路和預訂增加價值。但同時，我們相信，我們所做的最好的事情之一就是，在我們所追求的所有垂直領域，我們都保持活躍，以便我們可以向客戶學習，我們可以向市場學習，我們可以從定價中學習。

And the value-proposition strategy and all the different challenges or exciting opportunities that exist and learn from them and as a result, share with our partners as well and then redefine a go-to-market strategy. So that is helping us a lot.

價值主張策略以及存在的所有不同挑戰或令人興奮的機會，並從中學習，並與我們的合作夥伴分享，然後重新定義市場進入策略。這對我們幫助很大。

Got it. That's super helpful. And then just on the large enterprise, implementations that you've been referencing on the last couple of calls, I was wondering if you could give any sense for the contribution to revenue and contribution profit from those merchants specifically just as we think about modeling out the back half of the year and starting to lap those implementations.

知道了。這非常有幫助。然後，就您在前幾次電話會議中提到的大型企業實施情況而言，我想知道您是否可以具體說明一下這些商家對收入和利潤的貢獻，尤其是在我們考慮對下半年進行建模並開始實施這些實施的情況下。

Have a guess that we'll start to see some of the spread between revenue and contribution, profit change, but if there's anything you could do to maybe put a box around what those what those merchants are contributing to some of the results right now that'd be very helpful just in calibrating the models.

我猜我們會開始看到收入和貢獻、利潤變化之間的差距，但如果你能做些什麼來圈出那些商家對目前某些結果的貢獻，那將非常有助於校準模型。

Thank you. Nice results today.

謝謝。今天的結果不錯。

Hey, Will. Thanks, I appreciate the question and appreciate the desire to get that level of granularity of our business. But we've decided not to get into that level at this point given we have only 2.5 quarters under our belt. I think once we have full year we might be able to share some color, but we don't want to get into that level at this point in time.

嘿，威爾。謝謝，我很感謝你的提問，也謝謝你希望了解我們業務的詳細程度。但考慮到我們只完成了 2.5 個季度，我們決定暫時不進入該級別。我認為，一旦我們有了整年的時間，我們也許能夠分享一些顏色，但我們目前還不想進入那個水平。

The only thing I can say is that, and what we have shared today, is that large customers definitely get a better pricing. Said differently, their margins are softer than corporate margins, but overall the operating leverage on the business, if that is considered, it's a very profitable and great business for us as you've seen our adjusted EBITDA was record 34.2%.

我唯一能說的是，以及我們今天所分享的是，大客戶肯定會獲得更好的定價。換句話說，他們的利潤率比企業利潤率要低，但總體而言，如果考慮到業務的經營槓桿，那麼對於我們來說，這是一項非常有利可圖且偉大的業務，正如您所見，我們的調整後 EBITDA 達到了創紀錄的 34.2%。

So I think overall, it's accretive, it's definitely accretive to the bottom line. And they are adding good cash and good profitability to us, helping us reach better margins. Won't be able to get into the things that you're seeking at this time.

所以我認為總體而言，它是增值的，它肯定會增加底線。他們為我們帶來了豐厚的現金和獲利能力，幫助我們獲得更高的利潤率。此時將無法了解您正在尋找的事物。

Okay, right, understood. Appreciate it. Thanks for taking the question.

好的，對，明白了。非常感謝。感謝您回答這個問題。

Thank you, Will.

謝謝你，威爾。

There are no more questions, so I'll pass the call back over to the management team for closing your remarks.

沒有其他問題了，所以我將把電話轉回給管理團隊，以結束你們的發言。

Thank you, everyone. Have a great day.

謝謝大家。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you.

謝謝。

That concludes the conference call. Thank you for your participation. Enjoy the rest of your day.

電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。享受你剩餘的一天。