Pampa Energia SA (PAM) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. Thank you for waiting. I'm Raquel Cardasz from IR, and we would like to welcome everyone to Pampa Energia's third quarter of 2025 results video conference. First, we would like to inform you that this event is being recorded. (Event Instructions) Before continuing, please read the disclaimer on the second page of our presentation.

早安.感謝您的耐心等待。我是來自投資者關係部的 Raquel Cardasz，我們歡迎大家參加 Pampa Energia 2025 年第三季業績視訊會議。首先，我們想告知您，本次活動正在錄影。（活動須知）在繼續之前，請閱讀我們簡報第二頁的免責聲明。

Let me mention that forward-looking statements are based on Pampa Energia's management beliefs and assumptions and information currently available to the company. They involve risks, uncertainties, and assumptions because they are related to future events that may or may not occur. Investors should understand that general economic and industry conditions and other operating factors could also affect the future results of Pampa Energia and could cause results to differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements.

我想說明的是，前瞻性陳述是基於 Pampa Energia 管理層的信念和假設以及公司目前可獲得的資訊。它們涉及風險、不確定性和假設，因為它們與可能發生也可能不會發生的未來事件有關。投資者應了解，一般經濟和行業狀況以及其他經營因素也可能影響 Pampa Energia 的未來業績，並可能導致實際業績與此類前瞻性聲明中表達的業績存在重大差異。

Now I will turn the video conference to Lida.

現在我將視訊會議切換到莉達。

Thank you, Raquel. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining our conference call. I will make a quick summary of Q3, so we can spend more time on Q&A with the management. Today, we have our CEO, Gustavo Mariani; our Head of Oil & Gas, Mr. Horacio Turri; and our CFO, Mr. Adolfo Zuberbuhler.

謝謝你，拉奎爾。大家好，感謝各位參加我們的電話會議。我將對第三季度進行簡要總結，以便我們能花更多時間與管理層進行問答環節。今天，我們有執行長 Gustavo Mariani；石油天然氣部門負責人 Horacio Turri 先生；以及財務長 Adolfo Zuberbuhler 先生。

The quarter's standout performance came from Rincón de Aranda, where the production ramp-up is translating into strong EBITDA, supported by 6 -- 7 active pads today. Oil is emerging as a meaningful contributor, now accounting for 34% of our EBITDA in the E&P; and therefore, 18% of total E&P in the quarter.

本季表現最突出的是 Rincón de Aranda，其產量提升轉化為強勁的 EBITDA，目前有 6 至 7 個活躍的油氣田。石油正逐漸成為重要的貢獻者，目前占我們勘探與生產業務 EBITDA 的 34%；因此，佔本季勘探與生產總業務的 18%。

In power generation, after six years and amid the ongoing deregulation, the winter, we self-procure gas for our Loma de la Lata power plant, boosting both power and E&P margins. Winter demand pushed us to a new all-time high in production to almost 18 million cubic meters per day of gas, delivered smoothly without any disturbance and disruptions. And following the September market volatility, management demonstrated confidence in the company's fundamentals by repurchasing 1.5% of the company's share capital at $59 -- close to $59 per ADR. Today, the stock is trading nearly $90.

在發電方面，經過六年和持續的放鬆管制，在冬季，我們為 Loma de la Lata 發電廠自行採購天然氣，從而提高了電力和勘探開發利潤率。冬季需求推動我們的天然氣產量達到歷史新高，每日產量接近 1800 萬立方米，並且輸送順利，沒有任何干擾和中斷。9 月市場波動之後，管理層對公司基本面充滿信心，以每股 59 美元的價格回購了該公司 1.5% 的股本——接近每股 ADR 59 美元。今天，該股票的交易價格接近90美元。

So let's move into the quarter's financial results. The adjusted EBITDA amounted to $322 million. This is a 16% year-on-year increase. This is mainly driven by Rincón de Aranda, steady shale oil growth, higher B2B sales, and the contribution of PEPE 6 wind farm. Quarter on quarter, EBITDA also improved due to Rincón de Aranda and gas seasonality. CapEx surged 183% year on year, reaching to $332 million, of which $174 million were invested in the development of Rincón de Aranda.

接下來我們來看看本季的財務表現。調整後的 EBITDA 為 3.22 億美元。這比上年同期成長了16%。這主要得益於 Rincón de Aranda 油田、頁岩油的穩定成長、更高的 B2B 銷售額以及 PEPE 6 風電場的貢獻。由於 Rincón de Aranda 和天然氣季節性因素，EBITDA 也較上季有所改善。資本支出年增 183%，達到 3.32 億美元，其中 1.74 億美元投資於 Rincón de Aranda 的開發。

Moving on to slide 4. The Oil and Gas adjusted EBITDA was $171 million in Q3. This is a 40% year-on-year increase, largely due to Rincón de Aranda, again, increased exports and strong industrial demand, as well as sub procurement margin in Vaca Muerta, for Vaca Muerta power plant. These variations were partially offset by soft retail demand in September due to milder weather and the end of the peak winter peak contracts under the Plan Gas SA.

接下來是第4張投影片。第三季石油和天然氣業務調整後 EBITDA 為 1.71 億美元。與去年同期相比成長了 40%，這主要歸功於 Rincón de Aranda 的出口增加和強勁的工業需求，以及 Vaca Muerta 電廠的次級採購利潤。由於天氣溫和，9 月零售需求疲軟，部分抵消了上述變化，同時南非天然氣計劃 (Plan Gas SA) 下的冬季高峰合約也結束了。

Higher gas treatment costs and the lease of temporary facilities at Rincón de Aranda, offset by the higher production, highly increased the lifting cost to $6.4 per BOE. Quarter on quarter, lifting cost per BOE actually sharply decreased due to the higher output and stable total cost. Gas lifting costs remained flat year on year at $0.90 per million BTU, but dropped quarter on quarter 17%, while oil saw significant cuts, thanks to Rincón de Aranda.

更高的天然氣處理成本和在 Rincón de Aranda 租賃臨時設施，被更高的產量所抵消，導致提升成本大幅增加至每桶油當量 6.4 美元。由於產量提高且總成本保持穩定，每桶油當量 (BOE) 的開採成本較上季大幅下降。天然氣開採成本與去年同期持平，為每百萬 BTU 0.90 美元，但季減 17%，而石油開採成本則大幅下降，這要歸功於 Rincón de Aranda 油田。

We will address that later. Total production averaged nearly 100,000 barrels equivalent of oil equivalent per day. This is a 14% increase year on year, led by Rincón de Aranda and Sierra Chata, but partially offset by decreases in El Mangrullo and nonoperated blocks. Quarter on quarter, production rose 18%, again, explained by Rincón de Aranda and gas seasonality. The production mix continues to evolve with oil rising to 17% of the total output, driven entirely by Rincón de Aranda ramp-up.

我們稍後會討論這個問題。總產量平均每天接近10萬桶石油當量。與去年同期相比成長了 14%，主要得益於 Rincón de Aranda 和 Sierra Chata 的產量下降，但部分被 El Mangrullo 和非營運區塊的產量下降所抵消。季度環比產量增加 18%，這再次歸因於 Rincón de Aranda 和天然氣季節性因素。生產結構持續變化，石油產量佔總產量的比例上升至 17%，完全得益於 Rincón de Aranda 油田的增產。

Crude oil prices averaged $61 per barrel in Q3. This is a 15% decrease than last year due to the Brent underperformance. However, our hedge in Rincón de Aranda's production helped mitigate the price drop. Without the hedge, our realized price will have been $60 per barrel, excluding -- this number is excluding quality or logistics discounts and any duties, export duties. This is a sort of FOB price.

第三季原油價格平均為每桶61美元。由於布蘭特原油價格表現不佳，比去年下降了15%。然而，我們在 Rincón de Aranda 產量上的對沖幫助緩解了價格下跌。如果沒有對沖，我們的實際價格將是每桶 60 美元，不包括——這個數字不包括品質或物流折扣以及任何關稅、出口關稅。這算是離岸價吧。

Focusing now on the slide 5 in Rincón de Aranda. As you can see on the chart above, the ramp-up remains on track. During Q3, average production reached 14,400 barrels per day. This is almost 3x Q2 levels, driven by the 3 new pads that we tied in during the quarter. Post quarter, a seventh new pad was connected, elevating output to 16,000 barrels of oil per day.

現在讓我們關注 Rincón de Aranda 的第 5 張幻燈片。從上圖可以看出，產能爬坡仍在按計畫進行。第三季平均日產量達 14,400 桶。這幾乎是第二季度水準的 3 倍，這主要得益於我們本季推出的 3 款新產品。季度結束後，第七個新井場投入使用，使日產量提高到 16,000 桶原油。

Currently, we have 1 frac fleet in the block ready to tie in 3 DUCs. And we have 2 high-spec rigs drilling the next -- another 3 pads for the next year's campaign. We expect to exit 2025 producing 20,000 barrels of oil equivalent per day. To support further growth and leverage idle capacity, trumpa capacity in the pipeline, we plan to install an additional temporary facility next year, increasing production to an average of 28,000 barrels per day by the second half of 2026. Our target is 45,000 barrels per day by 2027 once Vaca Muerta oil Sur pipeline and our central processing facility as known as CPF are brought online.

目前，我們在該區塊有 1 支壓裂船隊，準備連接 3 個未完工井。我們有 2 台高規格鑽機正在鑽探下一個井——為明年的鑽井活動鑽探另外 3 個井場。我們預計到 2025 年底，日產量將達到 20,000 桶油當量。為了支持進一步成長並利用閒置產能，我們計劃明年安裝一個額外的臨時設施，到 2026 年下半年將日產量提高到平均 28,000 桶。我們的目標是到 2027 年，Vaca Muerta 石油南線管道和我們的中央處理設施（簡稱 CPF）投入運作後，日產量達到 45,000 桶。

Another important highlight this quarter is the drop in lifting cost per barrel, as anticipated when we announced Grinoianas development. Our goal is to stabilize at $5 per barrel, in line with our peers, with the CPF playing a key role in achieving this milestone. Okay. In slide 6, moving to gas. Sales held steady year on year at 14 million cubic meters per day.

本季另一個重要亮點是每桶原油的開採成本下降，正如我們在宣布 Grinoianas 開發案時所預期的那樣。我們的目標是將油價穩定在每桶 5 美元，與同行保持一致，而 CPF 在實現這一目標中發揮關鍵作用。好的。在第 6 張投影片中，轉到氣體。銷售量與去年同期保持穩定，為每天1400萬立方米。

This is 8% higher than Q2, as explained early by seasonality. And Mangrullo continued to lead the output, though its share shrunk to 50%, while Sierra Chata grew to 38% of total output with a year-on-year production increase of 33%. In July, we hit a new all-time high in gas production of 17.6 million cubic meters per day, driven by Sierra Chata's peak of 6.3 million cubic meters per day. The most recent tiding pad of 3 wells delivered 2.7 million cubic meters per day. So imagine per well how much it is, highlighting its solid productivity.

這比第二季度高出 8%，正如前面解釋的那樣，這是季節性因素造成的。芒格魯洛（Mangrullo）繼續引領產量，儘管其份額縮減至 50%，而塞拉查塔（Sierra Chata）的產量佔總產量的比例增長至 38%，同比增長 33%。7 月份，天然氣日產量達到歷史新高 1,760 萬立方米，這主要得益於 Sierra Chata 氣田日產量達到高峰 630 萬立方米。最新一批3口井的井場日產量為270萬立方公尺。所以想像一下每口井的成本是多少，就能看出它強大的生產力。

A new 4-well pad is now undergoing fracking. Shell accounted for 64% of the Q3's output. Gas prices averaged at $4.4 per million BTU. This is flat year on year. Fuel procurement for Loma de la Lata power plant during the winter and industry sales supported this price, offset by lower export prices affected by the brand underperformance.

一個新的四井井場正在進行水力壓裂作業。殼牌公司佔第三季產量的 64%。天然氣價格平均為每百萬英熱單位 44 美元。與去年同期相比持平。冬季期間 Loma de la Lata 發電廠的燃料採購和工業銷售支撐了這一價格，但品牌表現不佳導致出口價格下降，抵消了這一價格。

72% of our gas was sold under Plant gas GSA, CAMESA retail. This is down from 86% last year. This is due to the cell procurement, which accounted 6% of the total gas output and gas sales, sorry, and improved deliveries of B2B sales and exports. Export remained steady at 1.2 million cubic meters per day amid the heavy winter that we experienced, up 146% year on year due to the low hydro in Chile. Switching to power generation on slide 7.

我們72%的天然氣是透過工廠天然氣GSA、CAMESA零售通路銷售的。這一比例低於去年的86%。這是由於電池採購（佔天然氣總產量和銷售額的 6%）以及 B2B 銷售和出口交付的改善。儘管經歷了嚴冬，但由於智利水位較低，出口量仍穩定在每天 120 萬立方米，年增 146%。第 7 張投影片切換到發電部分。

We posted an EBITDA of $120 million in Q3. This is 8% increase year on year, mainly explained by PEPE 6 wind farm fuels procurement margin in Loma de la Lata plus higher seasonal capacity payments for open cycles, partially offset by a 9% drop in generation due to the weaker demand. So availability declined to 94% due to scheduled maintenances in Gela and Loma de la Lata in September and the ongoing outages that is having NSA since January. New energy, particularly under take-or-pay PPAs continue to support 66% of the segment's EBITDA. We will discuss expectations of this new framework during the Q&A.

第三季我們的 EBITDA 為 1.2 億美元。與去年同期相比成長了 8%，主要原因是洛馬德拉拉塔 PEPE 6 風電場燃料採購利潤增加，以及開放週期季節性容量支付增加，但部分被需求疲軟導致的發電量下降 9% 所抵消。由於 9 月 Gela 和 Loma de la Lata 的計劃維護以及 NSA 自 1 月以來持續的停機，可用性下降到 94%。新能源，特別是照付不議購電協議下的新能源，繼續支撐著該業務板塊 66% 的 EBITDA。我們將在問答環節討論對這個新框架的預期。

Turning to cash flow on slide 8, we show the restricted group figures because this is aligned with our bond perimeter amid high CapEx. And at Rincón de Aranda, we generated $6 million free cash flow in Q3, driven by the strong EBITDA generation and improved working capital. Q3 marked our peak in EBITDA and sales. And during the second half of the year, working capital typically moves as we collect winter sales. So results, cash and cash equivalents stood at $881 million at the quarter end, in line with Q2.

在第 8 張投影片中，我們展示了受限集團的數據，因為這與我們高資本支出下的債券範圍相符。在 Rincón de Aranda，我們第三季產生了 600 萬美元的自由現金流，這得益於強勁的 EBITDA 成長和營運資本的改善。第三季我們的 EBITDA 和銷售額均達到高峰。下半年，隨著冬季銷售的進行，營運資金通常會有所變動。因此，截至季末，現金及現金等價物為 8.81 億美元，與第二季持平。

Finally, in the balance sheet, gross debt was nearly $1.8 billion. This is 16% down since December 2024, following the redemption of the 2027 and 2029 notes that were funded with proceeds from the 2034 notes. Net debt rose to $874 million, 1.3x net leverage ratio, reflecting the CapEx outflows and collaterals on oil hedge.

最後，在資產負債表中，總債務接近 18 億美元。自 2024 年 12 月以來，該指數已下跌 16%，此前，2027 年和 2029 年到期的債券已贖回，而這些債券的資金來自 2034 年到期債券的收益。淨債務增至 8.74 億美元，淨槓桿率為 1.3 倍，反映了資本支出流出和石油對沖抵押品。

However, post quarter, we repaid $47 million in net for prefinancing loans and recover $84 million from OCP Ecuador guarantees funds that should have been released back in March. Therefore, we maintain a 1.1x net leverage and a strong cash position of approximately $920 million. However, our liability management efforts extended the average life to 5.6 years, strengthening our financial profile and reducing near-term maturities amid Rincón de Aranda's development.

然而，本季結束後，我們淨償還了 4,700 萬美元的預融資貸款，並從 OCP 厄瓜多爾擔保資金中收回了 8,400 萬美元，這些資金本應在 3 月發放。因此，我們保持 1.1 倍淨槓桿率和約 9.2 億美元的強勁現金儲備。然而，我們的負債管理措施將平均期限延長至 5.6 年，增強了我們的財務狀況，並在 Rincón de Aranda 開發過程中減少了近期到期債務。

So well, this concludes the presentation. Now I turn the floor is open for questions.

好了，演講到此結束。現在輪到我了，大家可以提問。

(Event Instructions) Well, let's go first. The first one is [Guidoosolaria from Italy]. He's asking, considering that during Q3 2025, inventories of crude oil were sold by approximately 2,800 barrels per day and that since October, the 1,600 barrels per day contribution from El Toro will not be anymore. How do you expect total oil production to evolve in the upcoming quarters?

（活動說明）好，我們先開始。第一個是[來自義大利的Guidoosolaria]。他提出這個問題，是因為在 2025 年第三季度，原油庫存每天售出約 2800 桶，而且自 10 月以來，埃爾托羅油田每天 1600 桶的貢獻將不復存在。您預計未來幾季石油總產量將如何變化？

Our best expectation for the fourth quarter of 2025 is between 18,000 and 19,000 barrels per day.

我們對 2025 年第四季的最佳預期是每天 18,000 至 19,000 桶。

So ramping up from Q3.

所以，從第三季開始逐步加速。

That's right. Because of the coming online of pad number 11.

這是正確的。因為11號墊子上線了。

Great. So basically, going forward, it's going to be Rincón de Aranda plus associated oil from gas fields.

偉大的。所以基本上，未來將會是 Rincón de Aranda 油田加上來自天然氣田的伴生石油。

But very little. Very little. I mean the main driver is Rincón de Aranda.

但很少。很少。我的意思是，主要駕駛者是 Rincón de Aranda。

Good. Second question from Guo. We noticed a sequential improvement in lifting costs from $7.6 per barrel per BOE to $6.8, $6.4. How do you expect to evolve during 2026 until the CPF is ready? This is per BOE, right?

好的。郭提出的第二個問題。我們注意到，提油成本從每桶每桶油當量7.6美元逐年下降至6.8美元和6.4美元。您預計在2026年CPF準備就緒之前，提油成本將如何變化？這是根據美國央行的數據，對吧？

Yes, I understand the question. The main change in 2026 is going to be the ramping up of Rincón de Aranda from the ending -- year-end of around 19,000 to 20,000 barrels up to 28,000 barrels on the second half. Therefore, we will see a reduction in our lifting cost for oil from $10 to around $9.1, $9.2 per barrel, and that will drive down our overall lifting cost to around $6.2 per barrel equivalent.

是的，我明白這個問題。2026 年的主要變化是 Rincón de Aranda 的產量將從年底的 19,000 至 20,000 桶增加到下半年的 28,000 桶。因此，我們將看到石油的開採成本從每桶 10 美元降至每桶 9.1 美元、9.2 美元左右，這將使我們的整體開採成本降至每桶當量約 6.2 美元。

Do you see any potential to reduce lifting costs in gas?

您認為在天然氣運輸方面，是否有降低運輸成本的潛力？

I wouldn't say so. I would say that probably there's going to be -- is going to keep stable. We are pretty much keeping more or less the same expectation of production so far. If there's going to be an additional production to come online, probably those lifting costs will be reduced.

我倒不這麼認為。我認為可能會保持穩定。到目前為止，我們對產量的預期基本上保持不變。如果未來有新的生產線投產，那麼起重成本可能會降低。

Great. How do you expect to evolve the gas market during the summer season considering the lack of local demand, export market to Chile, and more associated gas from oil fields?

偉大的。考慮到本地需求不足、對智利的出口市場以及油田伴生氣增多，您預計夏季天然氣市場將如何發展？

Okay. There is always seasonality, obviously, in the Argentine market. Good news is that we do have a take-or-pay clause in our contracts of 75%. And more or less, that matches with the real demand during the summer. So we will be delivering what we already have contracted as a take-or-pay.

好的。阿根廷市場顯然總是存在季節性因素。好消息是，我們的合約中有一項「照付不議」條款，金額為75%。而且，這與夏季的實際需求基本吻合。因此，我們將按合約約定交付貨物，無需付款。

Regarding the associated gas, I would say that, that will have much more influence in the spot market, in the gas spot market, and we are not in that market. So it's not going to be -- it's not going to have any influence on our overall price.

至於伴生氣，我認為它將對現貨市場，也就是天然氣現貨市場產生更大的影響，而我們並不在這個市場。所以，這不會——這不會對我們的整體價格產生任何影響。

Yes. What do you think about Chile? Do you think it's going to maintain these levels?

是的。你對智利有什麼看法？你認為它會維持在這些水平嗎？

Chile, we are -- well, we are consistently increasing our exports to Chile. If we compare with last year, we will -- we come from around 0.5 million cubic meters per day. to around 1.2 million, 1.3 million cubic meters per day this year. That has to do with 2 main drivers. One is the launching of the export to the Pacific region pipeline with around 400,000 to 500,000 million cubic meters per day, and also has to do with higher demand on the Gas Andes region from the Chilean side.

智利，我們——嗯，我們對智利的出口一直在穩步增長。如果與去年相比，我們將從每天約 50 萬立方公尺增加到今年每天約 120 萬至 130 萬立方公尺。這主要與兩個因素有關。一是開通往太平洋地區的天然氣出口管道，日輸氣量約為 400,000 至 500,000 百萬立方米，二是智利一側安第斯山脈天然氣地區的需求增加。

Now it matches to Santiago, right?

現在它和聖地亞哥匹配了，對吧？

It's not only Santiago, but all the central region of Chile. Yes.

不只聖地牙哥，而是整個智利中部地區。是的。

So you expect that it could continue around 1 million.

所以你預計這個數字可能會繼續維持在100萬左右。

It's going to be around a little bit more than that, probably 1.2 million, 1.3 million cubic meters per day. Basically maintaining what we do have today and eventually increasing a little bit in the Pacific.

實際數量會比這略多一些，大概每天 120 萬到 130 萬立方公尺。基本上就是維持我們目前擁有的資源，最終在太平洋地區略有增加。

Fourth, could you give us any color on how you expect to improve during 2026 revenues and EBITDA in the Power Generation segment, considering the new framework established by the Resolution 400? This question is also addressed by Alejandro Demichelis from Jefferies, I want to say. Another people, sorry.

第四，鑑於第 400 號決議建立的新框架，您能否就 2026 年發電部門的收入和 EBITDA 的預期改善提供一些資訊？我想說，傑富瑞集團的亞歷杭德羅·德米凱利斯也回答了這個問題。抱歉，是其他人。

We basically expect that the EBITDA of the segment will improve by at least 15% next year due to these resolutions. But there's still -- this is based on several assumptions. Now the market has become much more complicated to predict, now that we are moving into kind of a marginal price system.

我們基本上預期，由於這些決議的出台，該業務板塊的 EBITDA 明年將提高至少 15%。但是，這仍然是基於幾個假設的。現在，隨著我們進入某種邊際價格體系，市場變得更難預測。

It will also depend on how successful we are on the B2B market and how many -- how much of our energy we are able to sell it with higher margins than CAMESA to the B2B market, but that's going to be very competitive. So the other relevant thing that the secretary still needs to publish the details on how producers of gas can take out their contracts from CAMESA.

這也取決於我們在 B2B 市場上的成功程度，以及我們能夠以比 CAMESA 更高的利潤率向 B2B 市場出售多少能源，但這將會是一場非常激烈的競爭。因此，部長還需要公佈天然氣生產商如何從CAMESA獲得合約的詳細信息，這是另一件相關的事情。

So in order for us to self-fulfill our power generation unit, we need to cancel or extinguish our obligation with CAMESA. The Secretary of Energy is working on that resolution. The details of that resolution will impact on this matter. So still too early to be precise on what to expect, but I would say that you should be expecting at least 15% -- 10% to 15% improvement in the segment.

因此，為了實現我們發電單元的自給自足，我們需要取消或解除與 CAMESA 的義務。能源部長正著手解決這個問題。該決議的具體細節將對此事產生影響。所以現在要準確預測結果還為時過早，但我認為該細分市場至少應該有 15% 的成長——10% 到 15% 的成長。

What levels of CapEx and leverage are you forecasting for 2026? Are you planning to finance it?

您預測2026年的資本支出和槓桿水準會是多少？你打算融資嗎？

Well, level of CapEx for 2026 is going to be more or less similar to CapEx of this year of around $1 billion to $1.1 billion. In terms of how we are planning to finance it, Lida showed our --

2026 年的資本支出水準將與今年的資本支出水準大致相同，約為 10 億至 11 億美元。至於我們計劃如何籌集資金，麗達向我們展示了我們的--

Our beautiful slide.

我們漂亮的滑梯。

Lida showed our cash position. The cash that we are showing there does not take into account the cash that we have posted as collateral for the hedges -- for hedging the Brent. That's something that is for us is also cash that we can convert into cash in just one day, but it's not considered cash by the accounting rules.

麗達向我們展示了我們的現金狀況。我們在此顯示的現金並未計入我們為對沖布蘭特原油價格而提供的抵押現金。對我們來說，這也是現金，我們可以在一天之內將其變現，但根據會計規則，它不被視為現金。

So we have a very large cash position. We have a very good debt profile that we always like to improve even better than what it is. Argentina, as you have seen, is a volatile country. So we always like to play on the safe side with a very comfortable financial position.

所以我們擁有非常龐大的現金儲備。我們的債務狀況非常良好，但我們一直希望能進一步改善。如你所見，阿根廷是一個動盪的國家。所以我們總是喜歡穩健行事，保持非常穩健的財務狀況。

I will add to that, that next year, we have a full year of oil production that this year we didn't have. We have a full year of an average of 24, 22 (inaudible) 4,000 barrel per day that will add additional cash flow that we did this year. We had to face with our own cash position.

我還要補充一點，明年我們將迎來全年的石油生產，而今年我們並沒有這樣的產量。我們全年平均日產量為 24,22（聽不清楚）4,000 桶，這將比我們今年增加額外的現金流。我們不得不面對自身的現金狀況。

Well, moving on to Alejandro Demichelis from Jefferies. The first question is it was exactly the same as Guido about the deregulation. We talk about it. Second question is with the increased CapEx from the subsidiaries and the CapEx requirement, what do you see -- when do you see that the net debt peaking? When and where net debt peaking?

好的，接下來是來自傑富瑞集團的亞歷杭德羅·德米凱利斯。第一個問題是，這與 Guido 對放鬆管制的看法完全一樣。我們討論過這件事。第二個問題是，隨著子公司資本支出增加和資本支出需求增加，您認為淨負債何時達到高峰？淨債務何時何地達到高峰？

Well, as you can see in the last slide, our net debt has remained very, very low, around 1.1. As we've been speaking with investors, this question was repeated many times. We expected to have reached the highest peak by now at around 1.2, 1.3, we were saying that because this year was the -- as I said before, the year with a lot of CapEx and production of oil just started.

正如您在上一張投影片中看到的，我們的淨債務一直保持在非常非常低的水平，約為 1.1。在我們與投資者交流的過程中，這個問題被反覆提及。我們預計現在應該已經達到最高峰值，大約在 1.2 到 1.3 之間，我們這麼說是因為今年是——正如我之前所說，資本支出很大的一年，而石油生產才剛剛開始。

Next year, the production of oil will be constant in the whole year. So we shouldn't increase net leverage match or above these current levels of around 1.1, 1.2, 1.3. Next year, we probably have more debt, but we will have more EBITDA. So the ratio will keep around this level. And this is a level that we feel very comfortable and very prudent.

明年，石油產量將全年保持穩定。因此，我們不應該將淨槓桿率提高到目前1.1、1.2、1.3左右的水平以上。明年，我們的債務可能會增加，但EBITDA也會增加。因此，該比例將維持在這個水平附近。我們覺得這個水平非常合適，也很謹慎。

Next question comes from (inaudible). I know that Pampa's free cash flow was positive this quarter despite the ongoing expansion at Ringonderana. How is the rest of the year looking on this front? Are you expecting any reductions in the D&C costs to help over the next few quarters?

下一個問題來自（聽不清楚）我知道，儘管 Ringonderana 正在進行擴張，但 Pampa 本季的自由現金流為正。今年剩餘時間在這方面的情況如何？您是否預期未來幾季D&C成本會降低？

Okay. We are working permanently in the reduction of the D&C costs. Actually, in 2025, we were successful in reducing our drilling time in around 15% and our completion time in around 13%. That resulted in an overall reduction in our well costs of around 6% to 7%, going from $16 million to a little bit above $15 million. And in 2026, we expect to keep on going this way and eventually rate -- sorry, achieve reductions in the range of 5% in the overall cost of the wells.

好的。我們一直在努力降低設計與施工成本。事實上，到 2025 年，我們成功地將鑽井時間縮短了約 15%，完工時間縮短了約 13%。這使得我們的油井成本整體降低了約 6% 至 7%，從 1,600 萬美元降至略高於 1,500 萬美元。預計到 2026 年，我們將繼續朝著這個方向努力，最終實現油井總成本降低 5% 左右。

I would add that the reason why the free cash flow was positive this quarter is because this is the best quarter of the year for Pampa. But this year, overall, as you know, we have -- we are investing a lot in Rincón de Aranda. So our CapEx this year are above our EBITDA generation. So definitely a year of negative free cash flow, and that's why our net debt went up.

我還要補充一點，本季自由現金流為正的原因是，這是 Pampa 公司一年中業績最好的一個季度。但今年，如您所知，我們對 Rincón de Aranda 進行了大量投資。因此，我們今年的資本支出超過了我們的 EBITDA 收益。所以，毫無疑問，今年的自由現金流為負，這就是我們的淨債務增加的原因。

And next year, that because of the reasons that Pito explained, it's going to be reduced significantly because next year, our EBITDA is going up, our CapEx remained flat. So there will -- it's going to be a more balanced year than 2025.

而明年，由於皮托解釋的原因，支出將會大幅減少，因為明年我們的 EBITDA 將會增加，而資本支出將保持不變。所以，今年將會比 2025 年更加平衡。

Awesome. Well, the next question is coming from [Francisco Cascaron from Dawn Capital]. What was the amount of -- what about the amount of non-cash deferred income tax that was, I guess, recorded in this quarter? And do we expect any impact of this account of this size in Q4 2025? Any answer or I mean --?

驚人的。好的，下一個問題來自…[來自黎明資本的弗朗西斯科·卡斯卡隆]。本季記錄的非現金遞延所得稅金額是多少？我們預計這筆規模如此大的帳戶會在 2025 年第四季產生任何影響嗎？任何答案，或者我的意思是——？

This happens on time to time when there is a big gap between the devaluation rate and the inflation in pesos. So whenever this happens, we may have this cash deferred income tax in one quarter. That's what happened in the last -- in this quarter.

當比索貶值率和通貨膨脹率之間存在較大差距時，這種情況就會不時發生。所以，每當這種情況發生時，我們可能會在一個季度內收到這筆遞延所得稅現金。這就是上個季度——也就是本季發生的事情。

It's very hard for us to project if it's going to happen in the following quarters because it will depend on these variables that are out of our control. Whenever the inflation and the devaluation move together, this won't happen. But if they wide -- the difference between them is increased or widened, then we will have again. So we cannot predict only no one knows, but if the macro balances remain normal, this should happen again.

我們很難預測未來幾季是否會發生這種情況，因為這取決於我們無法控制的因素。當通貨膨脹和貨幣貶值同時發生時，這種情況就不會發生。但是，如果它們之間的差距擴大——或者說，它們之間的差距增大或擴大，那麼我們就會再次面臨這種情況。所以我們不能預測，因為沒有人知道，但如果宏觀經濟平衡保持正常，這種情況應該會再次發生。

Great. [Luis] from Morgan Stanley. What should we expect in terms of Rincón de Aranda drilling pace for Q4 2025? And how was the production during the month of October?

太好了。 [路易]來自摩根士丹利。我們應該對 2025 年第四季 Rincón de Aranda 的鑽探進度抱持著怎樣的預期？十月的生產情況如何？

Production during the month of October was around -- more than 16,000 barrels. And we will be -- in the next quarter, we will be drilling 4 pads. We are drilling pad number 7 and number 12. And we will be drilling in short time pad number 13 and what we call number 10 at least.

10 月的產量約為 16,000 桶以上。下一季度，我們將鑽探 4 個鑽井平台。我們正在鑽探7號和12號鑽井平台。我們將在短時間內鑽探 13 號井場以及至少 10 號井場。

But basically -- yes, drilling more, but completing -- still completing this year 7 pads.

但基本上——是的，鑽孔更多了，但完成——今年仍將完成 7 個墊。

Yes. The only part that is going to be completed in short time is (inaudible) one more to be completed. (inaudible)

是的。唯一能在短時間內完成的部分是（聽不清楚）最後一個要完成的部分。（聽不清楚）

Well, again, the production for October was around more than 16,000 barrels. We will be drilling in the last quarter 4 pads. We are currently drilling pad number 7 and number 12. We will be drilling pads number 13, and we are almost starting to drill pad number 10 Bs, or an additional 3 more wells to the organic inferior in pad 10. That's regarding the drilling.

10 月的產量再次超過 16,000 桶。我們將在最後一個季度鑽探 4 個鑽井平台。我們目前正在鑽探7號和12號鑽井平台。我們將鑽探 13 號井場，我們幾乎即將開始鑽探 10 B 號井場，或者說在 10 號井場的有機劣質層上再鑽 3 口井。這是關於鑽探的事情。

What Gustavo mentioned around -- about our activity and how many rigs we have, currently, we have 3 high-spec rigs. But it's going to be for a short time until we finish with the 3 wells of the organic Gunferior pad number 10, then we will remain with 2 high-spec drill rigs and 1 e-fleet.

古斯塔沃提到的關於我們的活動以及我們目前擁有的設備數量，我們有 3 台高規格設備。但這種情況只會持續很短一段時間，直到我們完成 Gunferior 10 號有機井場的 3 口井的鑽探，之後我們將保留 2 台高規格鑽機和 1 支電動鑽機隊。

Great. Second question is in terms of investments, should we expect a maintenance in 2025 expectations for CapEx? How should it evolve going into 2026? So we talk about $1 billion. pretty similar, right?

偉大的。第二個問題是關於投資的，我們是否應該預期 2025 年資本支出預期能夠維持不變？展望2026年，它該如何發展？所以我們討論的是10億美元。很相似，對吧？

Yes. This year is basically what we projected on the budget or slightly lower than what we projected on the budget because of very small delays in the deployment on some payments that are not going to be done this year, but are going to be done early next year. So it's going to be around $1.1 billion. And next year, we expect roughly to maintain that level of CapEx. That is basically until we finish the ramp-up of Rincón de Aranda because -- as we said, Rincón de Aranda takes 70%, 75% of that number.

是的。今年的實際收入基本上符合預算預期，或略低於預算預期，因為一些款項的支付出現了一些小的延遲，這些款項今年無法支付，但將在明年初支付。所以大概會是11億美元左右。明年，我們預計資本支出將大致維持在這一水準。基本上，這種情況會持續到我們完成 Rincón de Aranda 的產能提升為止，因為——正如我們所說，Rincón de Aranda 佔了該數字的 70% 到 75%。

Yes. Okay. [Juan Ignacio from Puente]. Given the recent launch of the Secretary of Energy new regulatory framework for the power market and the explicit focus on free contracting through bilaterals or B2B PPAs and cost reflected marginal pricing, what is Pampa's commercial strategy to navigate this transition? And how do you plan to maximize the opportunities presented by this new scheme, particularly regarding securing long-term private contracts?

是的。好的。[來自普恩特的胡安·伊格納西奧]鑑於能源部長最近推出了新的電力市場監管框架，並明確強調透過雙邊或 B2B 購電協議進行自由簽約以及成本反映邊際定價，Pampa 的商業策略是什麼來應對這一轉變？您計劃如何最大限度地利用這項新計劃帶來的機遇，尤其是在獲得長期私人合約方面？

Okay. Fortunately, we have a very well-seasoned commercial team because we have always been active on whatever B2B market was available for us, and we always been a very active player on the B2B market. Now that this market increases, we have a very good muscle. And obviously, we are going to try to gain a good market share in this B2B market for two reasons, basically because we expect to improve our margin vis-a-vis selling our energy to CAMESA; and second, to diversify our sources of clients, so being less dependent on CAMESA and a diversified portfolio of industrial clients and distribution companies, power distribution companies.

好的。幸運的是，我們擁有一支經驗豐富的商業團隊，因為我們一直積極參與任何可用的 B2B 市場，我們一直是 B2B 市場的積極參與者。現在隨著這個市場的成長，我們擁有了非常強大的實力。顯然，我們將努力在這個 B2B 市場中獲得良好的市場份額，原因有二：首先，我們希望提高向 CAMESA 出售能源的利潤率；其次，我們希望實現客戶來源多元化，從而減少對 CAMESA 的依賴，並擁有多元化的工業客戶、分銷公司和電力分銷公司組合。

Right. [Carolina Carneiro from Safran]. She's asking, well, it's a bit of a broad question, but it's good to ask this. Can you comment on the new rules published for the wholesale electricity market, if there's any next step that you talk a little bit about that and impacts for the companies? Well, first thing first, you have to read the summary I previously laid out -- we preciously laid out in the earnings release.

正確的。[賽峰集團的卡洛琳娜·卡內羅]。她問的這個問題有點寬泛，但問這個問題是好事。您能否就新發布的電力批發市場規則發表一些看法？如果有任何後續步驟，您能否談談這些步驟以及對公司的影響？首先，你必須閱讀我之前整理的摘要——我們在收益報告中詳細闡述過。

But basically, in a nutshell, it's a marginal system, right? C, we cap for this period of time, right? There's going to be a B2B market. So the good news is that Pampa is around in the power sector in power generation, right? It's 20% of our EBITDA is B2B, and 80% is CAMESA.

但簡而言之，這是一個邊緣系統，對吧？C，我們在這個時間內會設定上限，對嗎？將會存在一個B2B市場。所以好消息是，Pampa 仍然活躍在電力產業的發電領域，對吧？我們的 EBITDA 中有 20% 來自 B2B，80% 來自 CAMESA。

Now that's going to shift. It will be more than 20 -- I don't know how much will be, but surely, it will be more than 20% B2B. This is a good diversification. And well, that's basically more. And then, of course, for the first time, we will be able to -- well, actually, we started this winter, but we can continuously self-procure fuel to our own power units, and it's a great chance for our CCGTs.

現在情況要改變了。肯定會超過 20%——我不知道具體是多少，但可以肯定的是，B2B 的比例會超過 20%。這是很好的分散投資。嗯，基本上就是這樣。當然，我們以後將首次能夠——實際上，我們從今年冬天就開始了，我們可以持續地為自己的發電裝置自行採購燃料，這對我們的燃氣聯合循環發電廠來說是一個絕佳的機會。

Yes. But again, there's still rules to be published by the Secretary of Energy. We are not able to withdraw the contracts from CAMESA yet and sell and provide the fuel to our plants yet. We hope that at any moment, the sooner the better that would be published, and it will allow us to self fulfill our power generation plants.

是的。但是，能源部長仍需公佈一些規則。我們目前還無法撤銷與CAMESA的合同，也無法向我們的工廠出售和供應燃料。我們希望越早越好，這樣就能盡快公佈結果，從而使我們能夠自主建造發電廠。

At the same, we need to see the open season for the transport -- the plant.

同時，我們需要看到運輸——工廠——的開放季節。

Exactly. This is not only gas, but also transportation capacity that the Secretary of Energy has to decide out of the 21 million cubic meters of gas transportation contract that CAMESA had, how much will remain in CAMESA, how much will be transferred to gas distribution companies. So there are a few things that need to be clarified before having a better visibility of what's going to happen in 2026.

確切地。這不僅關乎天然氣，也關乎運輸能力。能源部長必須決定，在 CAMESA 擁有的 2,100 萬立方米天然氣運輸合約中，有多少將留在 CAMESA，有多少將轉移到天然氣分銷公司。因此，在更好地了解 2026 年將會發生什麼之前，還有一些事情需要澄清。

The good news is already out there. It's already kind of implemented. It's just we need to -- the details, yes, small details. That's right.

好消息早已傳開了。它實際上已經實現了。我們需要做的就是——細節，是的，小細節。這是正確的。

Updates on Gonderana, we already talk about it. So let's move on to [Matias Kataruzi from Atcap].

關於貢德拉納的最新消息，我們已經討論過了。那我們繼續…[來自 Atcap 的 Matias Kataruzi]

Stream Pampa hit 17,300 barrels per day in Q3 '25 in Ringonderanda with numbers above the guidance. What is the fourth-quarter 2025 exit rate targets?

2025 年第三季度，Ringonderanda 的 Stream Pampa 日產量達到 17,300 桶，高於預期。2025年第四季的退出率目標是多少？

We already talked about that. 20,000 barrels per day. And 2026 quarterly ramp-up because we put -- quarterly (multiple speakers). Two, all the path to the 45,000 plateau by 2027. So he wants all details.

我們之前已經討論過這個問題了。每天2萬桶。2026 年季度成長，因為我們設定了—季度（多位發言者）第二，到 2027 年達到 45,000 高原的所有途徑。所以他想知道所有細節。

All of the details, okay. So we will be exiting 2025 around 20,000 barrels, as we mentioned. By February next year, end February, beginning of March, we should have the additional temporary production facility. So we'll be able to have their ramp-up around 000 barrels of additional oil.

細節都清楚了。正如我們之前提到的，到 2025 年底，我們的產量將達到 2 萬桶左右。到明年二月底三月初，我們應該就能擁有額外的臨時生產設施了。因此，我們將能夠讓他們增加約 000 桶的額外石油產量。

It's going to 24,000 barrels by the second quarter of 2026. And by the third quarter of 2026, we should be reaching a peak of around 28,000 barrels per day. And then by January, February of '27, once the central processing facility is in place, our plan is a very quick ramp-up from those 28,000 barrels to 45,000 barrels, which is the overall target.

到 2026 年第二季度，產量將達到 24,000 桶。到 2026 年第三季度，我們應該會達到每天約 28,000 桶的峰值。然後到 2027 年 1 月、2 月，一旦中央處理設施建成，我們的計畫就是迅速將產量從 28,000 桶提高到 45,000 桶，這也是我們的總體目標。

Great. He's asking for D&C, which we already talked about. We talked about that. Lifting cost, we already talked about that. This -- as soon as this call is done in 10 minutes, it's uploaded to the cloud, so you can access to the replay easily.

偉大的。他要求做刮宮術，我們之前已經討論過了。我們談過這件事。關於提升成本，我們之前已經討論過了。通話結束後（10分鐘內），通話內容將立即上傳至雲端，方便您隨時重播。

So keep assume 10 minutes. And then he's asking -- this is a more detailed question, but the lifting cost breakdown between shale gas and Shell oil. I would say Shell gas is what we have -- we are seeing today is $0.80. Sierra Chata --

所以，暫且假設為10分鐘。然後他又問──這是一個更詳細的問題，頁岩氣和殼牌石油的開採成本細分是多少？我想說，我們現在用的是殼牌汽油——今天的價格是每加侖0.80美元。 Sierra Chata--

Between Mangrullo and Sierra Chata, it's around $0.80.

Mangrullo 和 Sierra Chata 之間的價格約為 0.80 美元。

Yes. Sierra Chata cheaper.

是的。Sierra Chata 比較便宜。

Cheaper than Mangrullo.

比芒格魯洛便宜。

Mangrullo, amazingly, it was the opposite. Given the productivity, right? And then Shell oil (inaudible)

令人驚訝的是，曼格魯洛的情況恰恰相反。考慮到生產力，對吧？然後是殼牌石油（聽不清楚）

We've already talked about that.

我們之前已經討論過這個問題了。

That right now is $9, but --

現在的價格是9美元，但是--

It's around $10. It's going to be going down to $9 by -- with the installation of the second temporary production facility.

大約10美元。隨著第二個臨時生產設施的安裝，價格將降至 9 美元。

And then in power, he's asking something like kind of similar but with the normalization. What -- how quickly can Pampa migrate legacy thermals? Basically, how quickly we can get B2B PPAs? We already talked about that, about the muscle of commercial fee.

然後，當他掌權後，他提出了類似的要求，但這次是要求正常化。Pampa 能以多快的速度遷移舊式熱成像系統？簡而言之，我們能多快獲得 B2B PPA？我們已經討論過商業費用的力量了。

It's a question that I don't have an answer. We will have to.

這是一個我無法回答的問題。我們不得不這麼做。

We have a handicap, but it doesn't mean --

我們確實存在劣勢，但這並不意味著--

Exactly.

確切地。

It doesn't mean that we are guaranteed. And then -- this is a very odd question. This is what is your 2026, 2027 spot price range under the new [dispot] rules? How sensitive is our EBITDA to an increase of $5 per megawatt hour?

但這並不代表我們一定能成功。然後——這是一個非常奇怪的問題。這是您在新[現貨]規則下2026年、2027年的現貨價格區間？我們的 EBITDA 對每兆瓦時 5 美元的成長有多敏感？

I think he's asking for the marginal cost because now that is the higher the marginal cost, the higher EBITDA, right? What marginal costs are you seeing?

我認為他問的是邊際成本，因為現在邊際成本越高，EBITDA 就越高，對吧？你看到的邊際成本是多少？

It's difficult. Unfortunately, I don't have all the numbers on top of my head. It's very different summer than summer prices could be in the $30, $40 summer and winter in the lower demand on the summer.

它很難。很遺憾，我記不住所有的數字。夏季與冬季截然不同，夏季價格可能在 30 美元、40 美元左右，而冬季的需求量則較低。

Off the peak.

已過高峰期。

And in the winter, probably in the 80s or 90s or 100. Next year, there shouldn't be any significant change from current year. Hopefully, in 2027, the system will see a decrease in the marginal spot prices because there's going to be new gas available in the market as I think I don't recall when we mentioned, but our subsidiary, TGS has been awarded to increase the transportation capacity of the [Gasutoeritooreno] by 14 million cubic meters of natural gas per day.

冬天的話，溫度可能在 80、90 甚至 100 度。明年應該不會和今年有太大變化。希望到 2027 年，該系統的邊際現貨價格能夠下降，因為市場上將有新的天然氣供應。我想我記不清我們什麼時候提到過，我們的子公司 TGS 已獲得合同，將 [Gasutoeritooreno] 的天然氣運輸能力提高 1400 萬立方米/天。

So that will have an impact during winter times because we will be -- as a country, we will be able to replace imports of LNG and even more important, import and consumption of diesel oil in thermal plants with local natural gas. So that will have an impact reducing spot prices. On 2026, there shouldn't be any significant change.

因此，這將在冬季產生影響，因為作為一個國家，我們將能夠用本地天然氣取代液化天然氣的進口，更重要的是，取代火力發電廠柴油的進口和消費。因此，這將對降低現貨價格產生影響。到2026年，應該不會有任何重大變化。

Yes. Well, there's a lot of variables like weather and hydrology. Exactly. Renewable penetration, right. Anyways.

是的。嗯，有很多變數會影響結果，例如天氣和水文狀況。確切地。再生能源滲透率，沒錯。總之。

[Ricardo Vo from Safra]. Is there any other projects or infra auctions, gas pipeline batteries, renewables, PPAs that the company may be interested in?

[來自 Safra 的 Ricardo Vo]公司是否對其他項目或基礎設施拍賣、天然氣管道電池、再生能源、購電協議等感興趣？

Well, this is the auction of the Comau power plants that we are studying all the opportunities. That is something that is -- there's no new delays, it's going to take place this coming Friday. I don't have any other infrastructure auction on top of my head. Do you?

嗯，這是科毛發電廠的拍賣，我們正在研究所有的機會。這件事確實沒有新的延誤，將在本週五舉行。我暫時想不出還有其他基礎建設拍賣的計畫。你？

The second tranche of the (inaudible)

第二批（聽不清楚）

I don't see it.

我沒看到。

You don't see it.

你看不見。

At this point.

在此刻。

With the private initiative, you think like it's kind of translated to. But the good news is that that private initiative gives gas to the eastern side of Argentina where a lot of the most efficient power plants are located. Good.

有了私人倡議，你會覺得它有點像是轉化成了這樣。但好消息是，這項私人倡議為阿根廷東部地區提供了天然氣，而那裡有許多最高效的發電廠。好的。

Then Daniel Guardiola, BTG. He's asking -- well, the first question is about the new regulation answer, broadly answered, I think. Well, at least what he's asking. Second question is about the hydro action, but zooming in on the potential CapEx that you might engage or might commit if you get awarded? And what -- do you envision the remuneration? How do you envision the remuneration of these plants? I guess, if it's going to happen or not because it's the --

然後是丹尼爾·瓜迪奧拉，BTG。他問的是──嗯，第一個問題是關於新規的答案，我認為答案大致是肯定的。至少他問的是這個。第二個問題是關於水力發電項目，但更具體來說，是關於如果您中標可能會參與或承諾的潛在資本支出？那麼──你設想的報酬是多少？您設想如何給予這些工廠報酬？我想，這件事是否會發生，取決於…--

It's a fixed dollar remuneration for a 30-year contract. And the upside is on an increased portion of your energy production that can be sold to the B2B market. So initially, the first two years is only 5% of your energy can be sold to the B2B market. Then it goes for another two years at 10%, 15%. Until in year 20, it reaches that 100% of your energy can be sold to the B2B market.

這是一份為期30年的固定美元薪資合約。好處在於，您可以向 B2B 市場出售的能源產量比例會增加。因此，最初兩年，只有 5% 的能源可以出售給 B2B 市場。然後接下來的兩年，稅率分別為 10% 和 15%。到第 20 年，就可以實現 100% 的能源銷售到 B2B 市場。

Meanwhile, you are selling your energy to CAMESA at this fixed dollar price adjusted by inflation -- by US inflation. And do you -- it does involve any CapEx if awarded? But there are maintenance CapEx. But in most of the plants, those CapEx because these are fairly new and very well-maintained plants, those CapEx come at 2/3 of the -- in the last 10 years of the concession. So from year 20 to year 30, most of those CapEx have to be done.

同時，您正以固定的美元價格（根據通貨膨脹率調整，即根據美國通貨膨脹率調整）將能源出售給 CAMESA。若得標，是否涉及資本支出？但存在維護方面的資本支出。但大多數工廠的資本支出，因為這些工廠相當新，維護得也非常好，這些資本支出佔特許經營期最後 10 年總支出的 2/3。因此，從第 20 年到第 30 年，大部分資本支出都必須完成。

Great. Then he's asking about, well, about lifting cost, D&C, we already covered. That. Yes. But he's asking a more interesting question is, do you foresee any additional M&A opportunities in Vaca Muerta? If so, what will be the priority, oil or gas?

偉大的。然後他問了提升成本、D&C（拆卸和修復）等問題，我們已經討論過了。那。是的。但他提出的一個更有趣的問題是，您是否預見瓦卡穆爾塔會有額外的併購機會？如果真是如此，石油和天然氣哪個會是優先事項？

There has been many opportunities, and I'm sure there's going to be many opportunities in the future as well. Our focus, if any, would be increasing our reserves of Shell oil. We have reserves of shale gas in excess of our expected production over the next -- so we don't need any additional gas reserves. And we -- if there's a good opportunity. But as you know, we are price sensitive. So we are -- we will be waiting for what we consider a good opportunity to increase our portfolio of reserves of oil.

過去有很多機會，我相信未來也一定會有很多機會。我們若要專注在某個方面，那就是增加我們從殼牌公司獲得的石油儲備。我們的頁岩氣儲量超過了未來幾年的預期產量——所以我們不需要任何額外的天然氣儲備。而我們——如果有好的機會的話。但你也知道，我們對價格很敏感。所以，我們將等待我們認為合適的時機來增加我們的石油儲備組合。

But there's no -- well, I know it's, there's no processes ongoing.

但是，我知道，目前沒有任何正在進行的流程。

No, no, nothing. We are interested in.

不，不，沒什麼。我們對此感興趣。

Right. Another question from Daniel. He's asking, can you share with us the expected IRRs of the LNG project that you are currently developing, I guess, Sarn Energy? And if it's possible, what will be the incremental EBITDA for Pampa Link to this project?

正確的。丹尼爾又問了一個問題。他問的是，您能否與我們分享一下您目前正在開發的液化天然氣專案的預期內部收益率（IRR），我猜是 Sarn Energy 的專案？如果可行，Pampa Link 為該專案帶來的增量 EBITDA 將是多少？

Okay. Let's go to the incremental EBITDA. The best part. So there are two, say, segments of this business, the CSA side regarding the liquefaction of the LNG and the sale of the LNG itself. And then there is the upstream segment, which is basically supplying those 6 million cubic meters per day that the vessels will be needing from Pampa from our participation of 20%.

好的。我們來看增量 EBITDA。最精彩的部分。所以這項業務可以分成兩個部分，CSA 部分涉及液化天然氣，以及液化天然氣本身的銷售。然後是上游部分，基本上就是透過我們 20% 的股份，從潘帕湖向船舶供應每天所需的 600 萬立方米原油。

The EBITDA related to the upstream segment of the business is around $140 million per year once we reach the 6 million cubic meters per day. IRR of the overall project is going to depend on the FOB price of the LNG that we sell. And I think we mentioned this in the previous call. Above -- if we are able to sell above $7.5, it's going to be a very good project. If we are selling below, it's going to be lower IRR return that we expect.

一旦我們達到每天 600 萬立方公尺的產量，與上游業務相關的 EBITDA 每年約為 1.4 億美元。整個專案的內部報酬率將取決於我們銷售的液化天然氣的離岸價格。我想我們在上次通話中也提到過這一點。以上——如果我們能以高於 7.5 美元的價格出售，那將是一個非常好的項目。如果我們以低於市價的價格出售，那麼實際內部報酬率（IRR）將會低於我們的預期。

We know we are going to have good years, regular years, and bad years, but we are very optimistic in the overall project. On the average is going to fine.

我們知道會有好年景、正常年景和壞年景，但我們對整個專案非常樂觀。整體來說應該沒問題。

All right. [Hari from NCA]. has Pampa hedged any portion of its 2026 production? If so, what percentage was covered and at what average price those hedges were executed?

好的。 [來自NCA的Hari]。 Pampa公司是否對其2026年的產量進行了任何避險？如果屬實，對沖比例是多少？平均對沖價格是多少？

Okay. We hedged almost 100% of our production. For 2026, I mean (inaudible)

好的。我們對幾乎 100% 的產量進行了避險。我是說，2026年。（聽不清楚）

Very good portion of it, right? A portion of it.

這其中很大一部分都很好，對吧？其中一部分。

Sorry, I'm here. So I would say it's around 80% of next year, and the average price is including this year. So what is left of this year and the rest of next year is around $68 -- over $68 per barrel.

不好意思，我在這裡。所以我認為大約是明年價格的 80%，而平均價格則包含了今年的價格。所以今年剩下的時間和明年剩下的時間裡，油價大約在每桶 68 美元以上。

This is Brent, right? Then translating to Palm Bio, we have a lot of stuff that we have to pay export duties. There are some discounts, very minor though for logistics and quality, and then other stuff if we sell locally, transportation fees, and so on.

這是布倫特，對吧？然後，翻譯成 Palm Bio 的話，我們有很多東西需要繳納出口關稅。物流和品質方面有一些折扣，但幅度很小；如果是本地銷售，還會扣除一些費用，例如運輸費等等。

[Jonathan Schwark from Deadwire]. Are you planning to cancel the 0.8 million ABRs that you bought back? Is 0.8 million all you have on your own shares or you have more?

[來自《死亡電鋸驚魂》的喬納森·施瓦克]您打算取消先前回購的 80 萬份 ABR 嗎？你持有的股份只有80萬嗎？還是你持有更多？

I don't recall if we have -- do we have shares from previous buyback?

我不記得我們是否有—我們是否有先前回購的股份？

No, you cancel it.

不，你取消它。

We cancel -- so no. There's no as of today, most probably that we are going to cancel these shares as well. We have to do by law. Well, eventually, we could do a convertible uses for something, but that's -- we are not starting that opportunity. So most probably that they are going to be canceled in the next shareholders' assembly.

我們取消了——所以不行。截至目前，很可能我們也會取消這些股票。我們必須依法行事。嗯，最終我們或許可以實現某些產品的可轉換用途，但是──我們目前還沒有開始嘗試這種可能性。所以這些決議很可能在下次股東會被取消。

What is the status of your plan to build a fertilizer urea plant?

你們興建尿素化肥廠的計畫進度如何？

We are awaiting from there's been some delays on the -- our original schedule. So now we are expecting by the end of the year to have -- we have already received -- yes, the technical part of the -- and we are studying from the suppliers, the technical part of the project, but we still haven't received the prices. We should receive that by year-end. And so we are expecting that number.

我們正在等待消息，原計劃有所延誤。所以我們現在預計到年底將會——我們已經收到了——是的，技術部分——我們正在從供應商那裡研究專案的技術部分，但我們還沒有收到價格。我們應該在年底前收到這筆款項。因此，我們預期這個數字會是這樣的。

Great. Okay. [Felipe from Market]. What is the current state of the payment days in gas from ENRSA? What is Pampa's exposure to this?

偉大的。好的。[來自市場的菲利普]ENRSA天然氣付款天數的現況如何？Pampa 接觸過這種物質嗎？

Vito, do you have Exposure? ERSA has been improving significantly over the past few months. So at one point, we had like almost two months of delay. And now it has less than a month, right? Yes.

Vito，你有Exposure嗎？在過去的幾個月裡，ERSA 的病情有了顯著改善。所以有一段時間，我們延誤了將近兩個月。現在距離截止日期不到一個月了，對吧？是的。

Yes, it's like 20 days. That's right. And then the debt it shrink a lot. Right now, the debt is like less than 60 million -- around $60 million. So it's like in pesos, it's like ARS90 billion.

是的，大概需要20天。這是正確的。然後債務就大幅減少了。目前債務大約不到 6000 萬美元——大約 6000 萬美元。所以，換算成比索，大概是900億阿根廷比索。

And exposure is -- we just sell. Those MXN19 billion that you mentioned. No, but where we sell ENRSA, why is a client not ours? We sell under applying gas, but a fraction of applying glass to them. the last round that we won, it's -- our offtake is ESA.

曝光度就是——我們只是在銷售。你提到的那190億墨西哥比索。不，但是我們銷售 ENRSA 的地方，為什麼客戶不是我們的客戶？我們銷售的產品在噴塗氣體方面成本較低，但在噴塗玻璃方面成本較低。我們贏得的最後一輪比賽是－我們的承購者是ESA。

Next question, I better keep it up. From (inaudible) regarding the 3 DUC pads plus the 3 that you are currently drilling. Is it part of your policy to maintain the inventory of that type of wells? Or is it due to the limitation related to the facilities' capacity? I guess why do we have DUCs this question?

下一個問題，我得繼續保持下去。（聽不清楚）關於 3 個 DUC 墊片以及您目前正在鑽孔的 3 個墊片。貴公司的政策是否包括維持此類油井的庫存？還是因為設施容量的限制？我想問的是，為什麼我們要問這個問題？

Well, we have DUCs because we need to -- as he's mentioning, we need to anticipate the ramp-up once the facility is in place. So if we are going to be installing a facility in March 2026, increasing around 7,000 to 8,000 barrels per day, we need to anticipate those DUCs, so we can complete those quickly and hit the ramp-up rate.

我們有 DUC，因為我們需要——正如他所提到的，我們需要預測設施建成後產能的提升。因此，如果我們要在 2026 年 3 月安裝一個設施，每天增加約 7,000 至 8,000 桶的產量，我們需要預測這些未完成的訂單，以便我們能夠快速完成這些訂單並達到產能提升速度。

Well, some questions have been answered. (inaudible) Nice to meet you. Any further bond placement on the cross-border markets?

有些問題已經得到了解答。（聽不清楚）很高興見到你。是否還會在跨國市場發行債券？

Well, as you know -- I'm sorry, I'm going to extend a little bit in the question. But as you know, in 2024, we started a process of refinancing all our debt. We issued 2 bonds. We called another 2, as Lisa explained, that show that we were -- and we are very active in the international bond market. And as we've been explaining, we've been funding our CapEx with our own cash position and our free cash flow.

嗯，如你所知──抱歉，我要稍微延長我的問題。但如您所知，2024年，我們啟動了所有債務的再融資流程。我們發行了2隻債券。正如麗莎解釋的那樣，我們又聯繫了另外 2 家公司，這表明我們過去是——而且現在仍然是國際債券市場非常活躍的公司。正如我們一直解釋的那樣，我們一直用我們自己的現金儲備和自由現金流來為資本支出提供資金。

So all these issuance were opportunistic rather than a need to finance any CapEx or any M&A. They were all -- we tap the market in very opportunistic manners, and that will be the case going forward. So we don't need to issue bonds. We don't need to finance any specific out-of-the-ordinary course of business. But if we see an opportunity, we will take it.

因此，所有這些債券發行都是機會主義行為，而不是為了籌集資本支出或進行併購。他們都——我們以非常機會主義的方式開拓市場，未來也將如此。所以我們不需要發行債券。我們不需要為任何特殊的非常規業務活動提供資金。但如果我們看到機會，我們就會抓住它。

We will take it. If we can improve our debt profile, if we can issue a very long-term bond, or if we can issue at a very low rate, that is something that we might do always in the spirit of calling or paying short-term debt and issuing longer-term debt. Yes, that is something that we might do. And we are always very active, and we execute our transactions very fast. So this can happen overnight.

我們會收下。如果我們能夠改善債務狀況，如果我們能夠發行長期債券，或者如果我們能夠以非常低的利率發行債券，那麼我們始終會本著償還短期債務和發行長期債務的精神去做這件事。是的，這或許是我們能做的事。我們一直非常活躍，交易執行速度也很快。所以這種情況可能一夜之間發生。

I think that answers the question.

我覺得這已經回答了這個問題。

Awesome. Next is [Ignacioski from Iberia]. He's asking regarding the remaining stake of Pampa has in GeoPark. As far as I know, it is now nearly 4%. Are you planning to sell?

驚人的。接下來是[來自伊比利半島的伊格納西奧斯基]。他詢問的是 Pampa 公司在 GeoPark 的剩餘股份情況。據我所知，現在接近 4%。您打算出售嗎？

Currently, we don't have any position in GeoPark. We sold them all, making us more profit. It's basically -- I think we finished selling the stake in September after the significant sell-down in the Argentine market. We decided to switch

目前，我們在地質公園沒有任何職位空缺。我們把它們全部賣掉了，賺了更多利潤。基本上——我認為我們在阿根廷市場大幅拋售之後，於 9 月完成了股票出售。我們決定換個平台

So the main goal is was we saw our stock very cheap, and we launched a share buyback program, as you all know. So we disinvested in GeoPark. And at $58 million, we decided to buy back our shares with that capital. It was a better investment.

所以主要目標是，我們看到自己的股票價格非常便宜，所以啟動了股票回購計劃，大家都知道。因此，我們撤出了對GeoPark的投資。於是，我們決定用這筆資金（總額為 5,800 萬美元）回購我們的股份。這是一筆更明智的投資。

Yes, even significantly more than what we spent in the --

是的，甚至比我們花的錢還要多得多。--

We spent $48 million, and GeoPark trade was $33 million, $34 million. The profit from that trade was the 2 dividends we collected during the holding period and -- price was more or less neutral. But in general, that was our strategy.

我們花了 4,800 萬美元，其中 GeoPark 的交易額為 3,300 萬美元，3,400 萬美元。那筆交易的利潤是我們在持有期間收到的 2 筆股息，而價格基本上保持不變。但總的來說，這就是我們的策略。

Regarding OCP, the warranty was $100 million. Are there any changes to collect the remaining?

關於OCP，其保固金額為1億美元。剩餘款項的收取方式有任何變化嗎？

Yes, the guarantee was $100 million, but we had cash collateral of $84 million. The rest was based on the balance sheet of Pampa. So the guarantee is completely collected. So there's nothing remaining there.

是的，擔保金額是 1 億美元，但我們有 8,400 萬美元的現金抵押。其餘部分則依據 Pampa 的資產負債表進行計算。所以擔保款項已全部收回。所以那裡什麼都沒剩下。

Awesome. And that's it. It's 12:59. We ended all the questions. Some of them, they've already been answered, so you can access the replay and check it out.

驚人的。就這樣。現在是12點59分。所有問題都回答完了。其中一些問題已經得到了解答，您可以訪問回放並查看。

So thank you for being here. Gustavo, Oracio, Ito, do you have anything say?

謝謝各位的到來。古斯塔沃、奧拉西奧、伊藤，你們有什麼要說的嗎？

Thank you, everybody, for joining. I hope it was useful. See you next time.

謝謝大家的參與。希望對您有幫助。下次見。