Pampa Energia SA (PAM) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for waiting. I'm Raquel Cardasz from IR, and I would like to welcome everyone to Pampa Energia's second quarter of 2025 results video conference. We would like to inform you that this event is being recorded. (Operator Instructions).

大家早安，謝謝大家的等待。我是 IR 的 Raquel Cardasz，歡迎大家參加 Pampa Energia 2025 年第二季業績視訊會議。我們想通知您，此事件正在被記錄。（操作員指令）。

Before continuing, please read the disclaimer on the second page of our presentation. Let me mention that forward-looking statements are based on Pampa Energia's management beliefs and assumptions and information currently available to the company. They involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions because they are related to future events that may or may not occur.

在繼續之前，請閱讀我們簡報第二頁的免責聲明。我要指出的是，前瞻性陳述是基於 Pampa Energia 的管理信念和假設以及公司目前掌握的資訊。它們涉及風險、不確定性和假設，因為它們與可能發生或可能不會發生的未來事件有關。

Investors should understand that general economic and industry conditions and other operating factors could also affect the future results of Pampa Energia and could cause results to differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements.

投資者應了解，一般經濟和行業狀況以及其他營運因素也可能影響 Pampa Energia 的未來業績，並可能導致結果與此類前瞻性陳述中表達的結果有重大差異。

Now I will turn to Lida. Please go ahead.

現在我來談談麗達。請繼續。

Thank you, Raquel. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining our conference call. I will make a real quick summary of the Q2, so we can have more time for questions with the management.

謝謝你，拉奎爾。大家好，感謝您參加我們的電話會議。我將對第二季度做一個快速總結，以便我們有更多時間向管理層提問。

Today for the Q&A, we have our CEO, Mr. Gustavo Mariani; our Head of Oil and Gas, Mr. Horacio Turri; and our CFO, Mr. Adolfo Zuberbuhler.

今天的問答環節有我們的執行長 Gustavo Mariani 先生、石油和天然氣主管 Horacio Turri 先生和財務長 Adolfo Zuberbuhler 先生。

So going to the Slide 3, several key developments marked the second quarter of 2025. First and foremost is the successful production ramp-up in Rincon de Aranda, thanks to the tied in of new pads in coordination with the commissioning of supporting infrastructure such as the temporary processing facility, internal and trunk pipelines and so on.

因此，回到投影片 3，2025 年第二季出現了幾個關鍵發展。首先，也是最重要的是 Rincon de Aranda 的成功產量提升，這要歸功於新平台的投入以及臨時處理設施、內部和主幹管道等配套基礎設施的調試。

So also the contribution of the new 140 megawatts wind farm PEPE 6 and the higher spot prices boosted the quarter's figures. However, colder temperatures started in June, so delayed the spike of the winter, the winter spike in both power and gas demand.

新的 140 兆瓦風電場 PEPE 6 的貢獻以及更高的現貨價格也推動了本季的數據。然而，從六月開始氣溫開始下降，推遲了冬季電力和天然氣需求的高峰。

Petchem contributed positive EBITDA continue gradually recovering, returning to a positive EBITDA. Finally, in a proactive liability management transaction, we extended the 2029 notes to 2034 with a $140 million recap issued at the lowest spread over US treasuries in Pampa's history.

石化貢獻的EBITDA持續逐步恢復，重回正值。最後，在一項主動的負債管理交易中，我們將 2029 年的票據延長至 2034 年，並以 Pampa 歷史上與美國國債之間的最低利差發行了 1.4 億美元的重新發行債券。

Let's move into the quarter's financial results. The adjusted EBITDA amounted to $239 million. This is a 17% decline year-on-year, driven by soft gas sales, falling petchem prices and higher operating expenses weighted on the performance. The headwinds were partially offset by contributions from the new PEPE 6 wind farm, increased gas exports to Chile and higher production at Rincon de Aranda.

讓我們來看看本季的財務表現。調整後的EBITDA為2.39億美元。與去年同期相比，這一數字下降了 17%，因為天然氣銷售疲軟、石化產品價格下跌以及營運費用增加對業績造成了影響。新的 PEPE 6 風電場、對智利的天然氣出口增加以及 Rincon de Aranda 產量的提高部分抵消了這些不利因素。

Quarter-on-quarter, EBITDA improved due to the seasonality and growing output at Rincon de Aranda. CapEx surged 134% year-on-year, reaching to $354 million. The majority, which is $249 million was invested in the development of Rincon de Aranda. Moving on to Slide 4. The oil and gas adjusted EBITDA was at $87 million, down 28% year-on-year, largely due to reduced domestic gas sales to retail and thermal power as the colder weather arrived later than usual.

由於季節性因素和 Rincon de Aranda 產量的增長，EBITDA 與上一季相比有所改善。資本支出較去年同期成長134%，達到3.54億美元。其中大部分，即 2.49 億美元，投資於 Rincon de Aranda 的開發。轉到投影片 4。石油和天然氣調整後的 EBITDA 為 8,700 萬美元，年減 28%，主要原因是由於寒冷天氣比往常來得晚，導致國內零售和火力發電的天然氣銷量減少。

The expiration of winter peak contracts between May and September under the Plan Gas GSA also impacted the results, though in June, that performed very strongly as if the GSA remained in place. Higher lifting costs, especially from Rincon de Aranda also affected EBITDA performance.

根據《天然氣 GSA 計劃》，5 月至 9 月期間冬季高峰合約到期也對業績產生了影響，不過 6 月份業績表現非常強勁，就好像 GSA 仍然有效一樣。更高的起重成本，尤其是 Rincon de Aranda 的起重成本也影響了 EBITDA 的表現。

However, increased gas exports to Chile and a stronger crude oil production at Rincon de Aranda helped to balance this decline. The lease of temporary facilities at Rincon de Aranda and gas treatment fees pushed the lifting costs up to $7.6 per boe. In particular, gas lifting costs rose to $1.1 per milliBTU. This is influenced also by the lower output.

然而，對智利的天然氣出口增加以及 Rincon de Aranda 原油產量的增加有助於平衡這一下降趨勢。租賃 Rincon de Aranda 的臨時設施和天然氣處理費將採油成本推高至每桶油當量 7.6 美元。具體來說，天然氣開採成本上升至每毫英熱單位 1.1 美元。這也受到較低產量的影響。

Quarter-on-quarter, lifting cost per boe increased moderately, explained by the transition from trucking to in-house and lease facilities, offset by the seasonality. Total production averaged 84,000 barrels per day. This is down 7% year-on-year due to the output decreases at the El Mangrullo and non-operating blocks, partially offset by Rincon de Aranda and Sierra Chata gas field.

與上一季相比，每桶油當量的開採成本略有增加，這是由於從卡車運輸到內部和租賃設施的轉變，但被季節性因素所抵消。總產量平均為每天 84,000 桶。由於 El Mangrullo 和非營運區塊的產量下降，這一數字年減了 7%，但 Rincon de Aranda 和 Sierra Chata 氣田的產量部分抵消了這一影響。

Quarter-on-quarter, the production is up 16%, again, explained by the seasonal effects and shale oil. The production mix continues to shift with oil rising to 9% of the total production output and contributing 18% of the oil and gas revenues, entirely due to Rincon de Aranda ramp-up. Also, we tied in two shale wells targeting Vaca Muerta at Río Neuquen block, the block's first shale development alongside new tie gas wells. Rio Neuquen is not operated by Pampa.

與上一季相比，產量增加了 16%，這同樣是由於季節性因素和頁岩油的影響。生產結構持續發生變化，石油產量佔總產量的 9%，貢獻了 18% 的石油和天然氣收入，這完全歸功於 Rincon de Aranda 產量的提升。此外，我們還在 RÃo Neuquen 區塊的 Vaca Muerta 地區連接了兩口頁岩井，這是該區塊與新的配套氣井一起開發的首個頁岩井。裡約內烏肯河 (Rio Neuquen) 不由 Pampa 營運。

Crude oil prices averaged nearly $62 per barrel in Q2. This is 14% lower than last year, mainly explained by the Brent underperformance affecting exports mostly. However, our hedging strategy around Rincon de Aranda's rising production helped to mitigate the price drop. Total gas sales fell 11% year-on-year. This is to almost 13 million cubic meters per day, but rose 10% from Q1, last as I just explained recently again by seasonality.

第二季原油價格平均接近每桶 62 美元。這比去年下降了 14%，主要原因是布蘭特原油價格表現不佳，對出口影響最大。然而，我們圍繞 Rincon de Aranda 產量上升而採取的對沖策略有助於緩解價格下跌。天然氣總銷量較去年同期下降11%。這幾乎達到每天 1300 萬立方米，但比第一季增長了 10%，正如我最近再次解釋的那樣，這是季節性的。

The Mangrullo block continued to leave the output, though its share declined to 58% of the total gas volume in Q2. Mean while Sierra Chata increased its share to 29% of the gas output in Q2 with a 14% production gain year-on-year.

Mangrullo 區塊持續產出天然氣，儘管其產量份額在第二季下降至天然氣總產量的 58%。同時，Sierra Chata 天然氣產量在第二季度增長至 29%，年增 14%。

In Sierra Chata, we drilled 4 wells and tied in 3-year-to-date. So 57% of the Q2 output is considered shale gas. In line with our commitments with the exploratory block in [Parva Este], we drilled a horizontal shale well, which is currently awaiting for completion and testing. Pampa extended [Parva Negra Este] license, exploratory license until 2027.

在 Sierra Chata，我們鑽了 4 口井，迄今已鑽探 3 口。因此，第二季產量的 57% 被視為頁岩氣。根據我們對[Parva Este]勘探區塊的承諾，我們鑽了一口水平頁岩井，目前正在等待完井和測試。Pampa 將 [Parva Negra Este] 許可證、探索性許可證延長至 2027 年。

In the gas prices, they averaged 4% -- $4 sorry, per milliBTU in the quarter, remaining steady year-on-year due to the Brent prices that affected export prices and offset by improved retail prices and improved marginally in the Industrial segment. Half of our gas was delivered to CAMMESA for power thermal generation under the Plan Gas GSA.

就天然氣價格而言，本季平均上漲 4%——抱歉，為每毫英熱單位 4 美元，年比保持穩定，原因是布蘭特原油價格影響了出口價格，但零售價格上漲抵消了這一影響，工業價格也略有上漲。根據天然氣計畫 GSA，我們一半的天然氣被輸送至 CAMMESA 用於火力發電。

If you see the nationwide gas, we contributed 17% of the gas consumed totally in the country for power generation. Since May, we have increased our flows to Chile through two pipelines, right? GasAndes and del Pacífico, Gasoducto del Pacífico capitalizing on the competitiveness of our gas relative to LNG.

如果你看全國的天然氣，我們貢獻了全國總消耗的天然氣的 17% 用於發電。自五月以來，我們透過兩條管道增加了向智利的輸送量，對嗎？GasAndes 和 del PacÃfico、Gasoducto del PacÃfico 利用我們的天然氣相對於液化天然氣的競爭力。

By June, the exports have reached 1.1 million cubic meters per day, same as today. Though Q2 gas sales were soft, June rebound sharply with the colder temperatures. On July 24, we hit a new all-time high daily production high at 17.4 million cubic meters per day, driven by the outstanding shale wells at Sierra Chata. The most recent tied in pad of 3 wells, we peaked at 2.7 million cubic meters per day in June, highlighting its solid productivity and competitiveness. So focusing now on Rincon de Aranda, we have 5 pads that have been drilled, four of which are online.

截至6月份，出口量已達到每天110萬立方米，與目前持平。儘管第二季天然氣銷售疲軟，但隨著氣溫下降，六月天然氣銷售出現大幅反彈。7 月 24 日，在 Sierra Chata 優質頁岩井的推動下，我們的日產量創下 1,740 萬立方公尺的歷史新高。最近一次併網的3口井在6月產量達到最高270萬立方公尺/天，凸顯了其強大的生產力和競爭力。因此，現在重點關注 Rincon de Aranda，我們已經鑽探了 5 個平台，其中 4 個已經上線。

During Q2, the block produced an average of 5,300 barrels per day, exiting June at 8,800 barrels per day. This growth was mainly driven by the pad number 2 and number 4. The latter began really producing in late June. So -- and it didn't by then completely clear out the water. So it was testing. And currently, Rincon de Aranda is delivering almost 16,000 barrels per day from 4 pads.

第二季度，該區塊平均日產量為 5,300 桶，6 月日產量為 8,800 桶。這一增長主要由 2 號和 4 號焊盤推動。後者於六月下旬開始真正生產。所以——那時水還沒有完全清澈。所以這是測試。目前，Rincon de Aranda 每天從 4 個油田輸送近 16,000 桶石油。

The last 2 pads were tied in during July, and they're still on the well testing. For 2025, we budget $100 million in total CapEx, having already invested over $360 million year-to-date. We expect it to reach 20,000 barrels per day at Rincon de Aranda by Q4 and aim to reach a target of 45,000 barrels per day by 2027 when Vaca Muerta Sur -- Oil Sur pipeline is online.

最後兩個平台已於 7 月連接完畢，目前仍在進行井內測試。到 2025 年，我們的總資本支出預算為 1 億美元，今年迄今已投資超過 3.6 億美元。我們預計，到第四季度，Rincon de Aranda 的產量將達到每天 20,000 桶，到 2027 年 Vaca Muerta Sur - Oil Sur 管道投入使用後，產量將達到每天 45,000 桶。

So again, to support this ramp-up, we secure trunk pipelines, transportation agreements in Vaca Muerta Sur, VMOS and Duplicar in June, we applied to the RIGI framework for the central processing facility, PPA, CPF and all related infrastructure needed to evacuate the target production level as shown in the video on the screen, the CPF flow lines, pipelines, water treatment pools and all required investment is approximately of $426 million, of which the CPF is estimated to begin by next year.

因此，為了支持這項產能提升，我們於 6 月在 Vaca Muerta Sur、VMOS 和 Duplicar 簽訂了主幹管道和運輸協議，並向 RIGI 框架申請了中央處理設施、PPA、CPF 和達到目標生產水平所需的所有相關基礎設施，如屏幕上的視頻所示，CPF 流水線、預計

Switching to power generation on Slide 9. We posted an adjusted EBITDA of $112 million in Q2. This is a 5% increase year-on-year, mainly explained by PEPE 6 performance and higher spot prices measured in dollars, partially offset by increased operating costs and scheduled outages.

投影片 9 上切換到發電。我們第二季的調整後 EBITDA 為 1.12 億美元。這比去年同期增長了 5%，主要原因是 PEPE 6 的表現和以美元計算的現貨價格上漲，但部分被營運成本的增加和計劃停機所抵消。

Generation volumes declined 7% year-on-year and availability stood at 92% due to the maintenance at Loma De La Lata, upgrade works in Barragan CCGT for efficiency and lower gas emissions and the hydros Nihuiles outages in two out of the three dams since January of this year. Still increased gas supply and PEPE 6 helped to offset the decreases, capacity payments, particularly under the take-or-pay PPAs continue to support 70% of the segment's EBITDA.

由於今年 1 月以來洛馬德拉拉塔 (Loma De La Lata) 的維護、巴拉甘 CCGT 的升級工程以提高效率和降低氣體排放，以及尼維萊斯水電站三座水壩中的兩座發生停電，發電量同比下降 7%，可用率僅為 92%。天然氣供應量和 PEPE 6 的增加仍然有助於抵消下降，容量支付，特別是在照付不議的 PPA 下，繼續支撐該部門 70% 的 EBITDA。

So turning to the Slide 10, about the cash flow. We only show restricted group figures because they are aligned with the bond perimeter. In Q2, we posted a free cash flow outflow of $307 million. This is mainly driven by the CapEx that we are doing at Rincon de Aranda, which accounted 75% of the total investment, along with an uptick in seasonal working capital as gas sales peaked during the Q2 and Q3, right?

現在轉到幻燈片 10，關於現金流。我們僅顯示受限的組圖，因為它們與鍵週長一致。第二季度，我們的自由現金流出量為 3.07 億美元。這主要是由於我們在 Rincon de Aranda 進行的資本支出（佔總投資的 75%），以及由於天然氣銷售在第二季度和第三季度達到頂峰，季節性營運資本有所增加，對嗎？

And as a result, cash and cash equivalents stood at $879 million at the quarter end. Finally, in the balance sheet, gross debt was nearly $1.6 billion, down 23% since December 2024, thanks to the redemption of the 27 and the 29 notes. Net debt rose to $712 million. This is 1.1 times net leverage ratio, reflecting the cash outflow for CapEx and the working capital needs. Our successful liability management efforts extended the net debt -- the debt average life to 6.2-years from 4.2-years, significantly improving the maturity profile and the high drawdown in cash from Rincon de Aranda.

因此，本季末的現金和現金等價物達到 8.79 億美元。最後，在資產負債表中，由於贖回了 27 和 29 張票據，總債務接近 16 億美元，自 2024 年 12 月以來下降了 23%。淨債務增至7.12億美元。這是淨槓桿率的1.1倍，反映了資本支出的現金流出和營運資本需求。我們成功的負債管理努力將淨債務（債務平均期限）從 4.2 年延長至 6.2 年，顯著改善了到期狀況並降低了 Rincon de Aranda 的現金提取率。

So this concludes our presentation.

我們的演講到此結束。

Now the floor is open for questions. (Operator Instructions). Thank you.

現在請大家提問。（操作員指令）。謝謝。

All right. Cool. Let's hit it off. No, no we have already received questions.

好的。涼爽的。我們一拍即合吧。不，不，我們已經收到問題了。

Already? Okay.

已經？好的。

Because the third question goes to you.

因為第三個問題要問你。

And 99% target to Horacio Turri. Which is, could you give us more color from Jonatha's work from that wire? Could you give us more color on the CPF in Rincon de Aranda, please?

99% 的目標是 Horacio Turri。也就是說，您能否透過那根電線向我們展示更多喬納森的作品？您能否向我們詳細介紹一下 Rincon de Aranda 的 CPF 呢？

Good morning, everybody. Thanks for joining the meeting. The CPF stands for central processing facility. And basically, it has three different, I would say, purposes. One, obviously, is the oil and water separation and the disposal of that flowback water, the possibility of having the oil ready to be dispatched to the YPF facility in order to get it in a spec for injection in the main pipeline and also the separation of natural gas, which is currently being sent through a gas pipeline to the Vista facility in Bateria Tres, which has already been connected.

大家早安。感謝您參加會議。CPF 代表中央處理設施。基本上，我認為它有三個不同的用途。顯然，其中之一是油水分離和回流水的處理，將石油準備好送往 YPF 設施，以便按照規格注入主管道，同時分離天然氣，目前天然氣正通過天然氣管道輸送到已經連接的 Bateria Tres 的 Vista 設施。

This processing -- central processing facility has a total output of 7,000 cubic meters per day. And we expect it to be finished by the end of 2026.

此中央處理設施的總產量為每天 7,000 立方公尺。我們預計它將於 2026 年底完工。

Which is 45,000 barrels per day?

每天 45,000 桶是多少？

Which is -- yes, a little bit less than 45,000 barrels per day, 42,000 something.

是的，每天略少於 45,000 桶，大約 42,000 桶。

Which is our plateau.

這就是我們的高原。

This is our expected plateau, that is right.

這是我們預期的平台期，沒錯。

Awesome. Well, the next question, yes, is for Gustavo. Have you already started self-producing with our own-fuel, meaning self-producing power, right? Your own fuel? If not, when do you expect to begin? And which is the spread between CAMMESA's reference price and your own procurement price?

驚人的。嗯，是的，下一個問題是問古斯塔沃的。你們已經開始用自己的燃料自我生產，也就是自產電力了嗎？你自己燃料嗎？如果沒有，您預計什麼時候開始？CAMMESA 的參考價格和您自己的採購價格之間的差價是多少？

Good morning, everybody. Yes, we have begun to self-procure our own gas to our facilities. But on a marginal basis because, as you know, the deregulation has not occurred yet, but there are some opportunities for us to self-procure our fuel on some of our facilities, those that do not require firm gas transportation or whether those days we find firm transportation capacity. So the answer is yes, we have begun to do it on a marginal basis.

大家早安。是的，我們已經開始自行採購天然氣供我們的設施使用。但從邊際角度來看，如你所知，放鬆管制尚未發生，但我們有機會在某些設施上自行採購燃料，這些設施不需要穩定的天然氣運輸，或者無論我們是否找到了穩定的運輸能力。所以答案是肯定的，我們已經開始在邊緣基礎上這樣做了。

And you asked about this --

你問過這個--

Price --

價格--

The Price

價格

What's the spread against the Plan Gas price, I guess?

我猜與計劃天然氣價格相比價差是多少？

Yeah. Currently, correct me, it's $9 is what

是的。目前，糾正我，是 9 美元

Currently, it's $8. Yeah, CAMMESA has been changing this regulation or this pricing has been -- initially has allowed generators to buy natural gas up to $11 per million of BTU, then to $9 per million of BTU. And this current two weeks because it's a system that changes every 2-weeks, it's $8 per million of BTU. So the spread to winter gas price is about $3.5 or something like that. Winter gas price for CAMMESA is around $4.50, I would say.

目前價格為 8 美元。是的，CAMMESA 一直在改變這項規定或定價——最初允許發電機以每百萬 BTU 11 美元的價格購買天然氣，然後提高到每百萬 BTU 9 美元。由於該系統每兩週更改一次，因此目前這兩週的價格為每百萬 BTU 8 美元。因此冬季汽油價格的差價約為 3.5 美元左右。我想說，CAMMESA 的冬季汽油價格約為 4.50 美元。

It's Loma De La Lata, right? Specifically?

是洛馬德拉拉塔 (Loma De La Lata)，對嗎？具體來說？

That's the facility that we are able to take advantage of this opportunity because it doesn't require gas transportation.

這是我們能夠利用這個機會的設施，因為它不需要天然氣運輸。

Awesome. Next question comes from Guido Visocero from Alaria. And he asked again, Horacio regarding Rincon de Aranda, could you give us any color on the expected evolution of the lifting cost throughout the second half of the year and 2026, considering the ramp-up expected in production and until the processing plant is constructed?

驚人的。下一個問題來自 Alaria 的 Guido Visocero。他再次詢問，Horacio，關於 Rincon de Aranda，考慮到預計產量將會增加，直到加工廠建成，您能否告訴我們今年下半年和 2026 年開採成本的預期變化情況？

Second quarter of '25, we were a little bit below $16 per barrel, basically due to the fixed cost of the TPF or the temporary production facility, which has a lease has to be paid annually and it's fixed. And the production rate in the second quarter of '25 was 5,000 barrels per day. So that explains the high lifting cost.

25 年第二季度，油價略低於每桶 16 美元，這主要是由於 TPF 或臨時生產設施的固定成本，其租賃費用每年必須支付，而且是固定的。25 年第二季的產量為每天 5,000 桶。這解釋了為什麼起重成本如此之高。

Moving to the first half of 2025 due to the increase in production, as Lida mentioned before, we are close to 15,000 barrels per day. We are reaching around $8.5 per barrel in terms of lifting cost. We also reduced significantly the figure from the first quarter due to the connection of our oil pipeline. We were evacuating oil through trucks at the very beginning.

到 2025 年上半年，由於產量增加，正如 Lida 之前提到的，我們的產量接近每天 15,000 桶。我們的開採成本已達到每桶 8.5 美元左右。由於石油管道的連通，我們的產量較第一季也大幅下降。我們一開始是用卡車運送油。

By 2026, with the increase in production to 20,000 barrels per day, we should be hitting around $7 per barrel. And the final stage will be the installation and construction of the CPF and that will move down the lifting cost to $5 per barrel with a plateau of 45,000 barrels per day.

到 2026 年，隨著產量增加到每天 20,000 桶，油價應該會達到每桶 7 美元左右。最後階段將是 CPF 的安裝和建設，這將使採油成本降至每桶 5 美元，日產量穩定在 45,000 桶。

Awesome. You mentioned the oil average price will have been $58.5 per barrel without the hedging strategy in Q2 '25. Was that me -- I mentioned that. Despite the $67.5 Brent average in the period. Are you planning to hedge production during 2026?

驚人的。您提到，如果沒有對沖策略，2025 年第二季的石油平均價格將達到每桶 58.5 美元。是我嗎——我有提到這一點。儘管同期布蘭特原油平均價格為 67.5 美元。您是否計劃在 2026 年對沖生產？

$58.5 is NATO. [Foreign Language].

$58.5 是北約。[外語]。

I think that the main difference is that the Brent has two discounts in order to be transform it in the well --

我認為主要的區別在於布蘭特原油有兩種折扣，以便在油井中轉化--

Price --

價格--

Well price, the wellhead price. One is the export tax, which is 8%. And also there's a premium for Medanito quality, which ranges, but it's around $2 to $1.5 per barrel.

井價，井口價格。一是出口稅，稅率為8%。此外，Medanito 品質的原油價格也較高，雖然價格不等，但約為每桶 2 至 1.5 美元。

And discount -- premium --

折扣——溢價--

A negative premium. So this is basically the explanation. And regarding the hedging for 2026, we already started hedging. Now we are already hedged until what -- September but July is the exercise content.

負溢價。所以這基本上就是解釋。至於2026年的對沖，我們已經開始對沖了。現在我們已經對沖到9月了，但7月是演習的內容。

Yeah. Basically, we have 1-year forward, we are hedged currently around 70%, 75% of our expected production at a price of $69.

是的。基本上，我們有 1 年的遠期合約，目前我們以 69 美元的價格對沖了預期產量的 70% 到 75% 左右。

Do you expect that our prices, Horacio, Gus? I mean less discount versus Brent? And when you reach the 20,000 barrels production targets by year-end, a little bit for (inaudible)?

霍拉西奧、格斯，你們對我們的價格有預期嗎？我的意思是相對於布蘭特原油的折扣更小？當你在年底達到 20,000 桶的產量目標時，（聽不清楚）？

It's impossible to predict at all. We don't feel that we can predict. So we look at the future prices of Brent as the best indication of where prices are going to be so we cannot say anything better than that, than what the future market curves predict.

根本無法預測。我們覺得我們無法預測。因此，我們將布蘭特原油的未來價格視為價格走向的最佳指標，因此我們無法說出比未來市場曲線預測更好的東西。

Great. Then Vigo asks about the CSA, which is the sovereign energy, LNG, (inaudible) LNG project. Do you expect any participation in the construction and maintenance of the required gas new gas pipeline for TGS?

偉大的。接著維戈詢問了 CSA 的情況，即主權能源、液化天然氣、（聽不清楚）液化天然氣計畫。您是否期望參與TGS所需的天然氣新管道的建設和維護？

We are still in discussions and trying to put together the best solution for that. But eventually TGS could be part of the consortium to build and operate that gas pipeline.

我們仍在討論並試圖找到最佳解決方案。但最終TGS可能會成為建造和營運該天然氣管道的財團的一部分。

How much gas may Pampa add in sales for these two ships in '27 and '28, how much CapEx do you need to achieve it?

Pampa 將在 27 年和 28 年為這兩艘船增加多少天然氣銷量，需要多少資本支出才能實現這一目標？

Okay. The total amount of gas at the end of the two vessels being operational in Argentina is around 6 million cubic meters per day. That is by the end of 2028. The CapEx associated for the ramp-up and the construction of a new facility in Sierra Chata, we are talking about $400 million, out of which 50% facility, 50% is perforation -- drilling and completion. And then we will have around $60 million to $80 million per year on a plateau basis to keep up with the 6 million.

好的。兩艘在阿根廷營運的天然氣船最終的天然氣產量約為每天600萬立方公尺。也就是到 2028 年底。我們談論的與在 Sierra Chata 擴建和建設新設施相關的資本支出為 4 億美元，其中 50% 用於設施建設，50% 用於穿孔——鑽井和完井。然後我們每年將有大約 6000 萬到 8000 萬美元的穩定資金來維持 600 萬美元的水平。

Great. The 6 million is breakdown between 2.5 for the first shift.

偉大的。600萬細分為第一班的250萬。

Yeah, that's the total amount at the end of the two vessels being operational. This approximately 40% with the first vessel than 60% with the segments.

是的，這是兩艘船投入營運時的總金額。第一血管約佔 40%，而各段血管約佔 60%。

Awesome. And he asked the last question is about the TGS private initiative. So how much EBITDA -- annual EBITDA contribution for TGS do you expect for this project?

驚人的。他問的最後一個問題是關於TGS私人倡議的。那麼您預計該專案將為 TGS 帶來多少 EBITDA（年度 EBITDA）貢獻？

No, I don't have that figure in my mind. Should ask that to.

不，我心裡沒有那個數字。也應該問問那個。

[4 million]. That's what it is.

[400萬]就是這樣。

You should ask that to TGS once --

你應該去TGS問一次--

Once it's done.

一旦完成。

When it's awarded.

當它被授予時。

Yeah. Because the award is in October. But it's the sole bidder, so I don't know if they are going to wait until October. And how much gas will Pampa add in the production considering the 14 million cubic meters per day new capacity for the (inaudible) pipeline?

是的。因為頒獎是在十月。但它是唯一的競標者，所以我不知道他們是否會等到十月。考慮到（聽不清楚）管線每天新增 1,400 萬立方公尺的產能，潘帕將增加多少天然氣產量？

Eventually, Pampa has reserves to supply all that gas. But how much, what market share of that new market will Pampa again? It's a question that we still don't have an answer. We expect that is -- these are increasing the capacity of the pipeline. So this 14 million cubic meters of natural gas per day.

最終，潘帕斯擁有了供應所有天然氣的儲備。但 Pampa 又能佔據多少新市場的市佔率呢？這個問題我們至今還沒有答案。我們預計這些都會增加管道的容量。所以每天需要1400萬立方公尺的天然氣。

They are going to be used for a short period of time, something like around 100 days per year during -- mostly during wintertime. So it will replace imports of LNG and diesel oil that the country does at much higher prices. So pricing for this gas should be close to that import parity, but we will see once that market develops.

它們將在短時間內使用，大約每年 100 天左右——主要是在冬季。因此，它將取代該國以高得多的價格進口液化天然氣和柴油。因此，這種天然氣的定價應該接近進口平價，但我們將在該市場發展後看到結果。

No.

不。

No. I will see you later.

不。我待會兒再來看你。

Sorry. This is a new (inaudible). He says, well, something that we always ask in every quarter is what prices of natural gas are we forecasting for this project?

對不起。這是一個新的（聽不清楚）。他說，我們每季都會問的一個問題是，我們預測這個計畫的天然氣價格是多少？

That is very (inaudible).

這非常（聽不清楚）。

Okay. Then Alan Mecelis from Jefferies, he's asking something about the lifting costs and drilling costs that we already answered, right? Drilling cost, we didn't answer though.

好的。然後 Jefferies 的 Alan Mecelis 詢問了一些有關開採成本和鑽井成本的問題，我們已經回答過了，對嗎？至於鑽井成本，我們還沒有回答。

Yeah, we have.

是的，我們有。

Drilling cost, we didn't answer. He's asking how the drilling costs are evolving?

鑽井費用，我們沒有回答。他問鑽井成本是如何變動的？

Okay. Drilling costs are going down, specifically talking about drilling. We moved from drilling efficiency of around 500 to 600 meters per day to around 900 meters per day. So we are improving significantly in our drilling efficiency. On top of that, we also made some improvements in our stage fracking per day, moving from 6 or 7 to around 8, 10 to 11.

好的。鑽井成本正在下降，具體來說鑽井成本。我們的鑽井效率從每天約 500 至 600 公尺提高到每天約 900 公尺。因此我們的鑽井效率正在顯著提高。除此之外，我們也對每天的壓裂階段進行了改進，從 6 或 7 個增加到 8、10 或 11 個左右。

So in all, with the improvements in completion and drilling, we should be able to reduce our total cost per well from $15.5 million to something around $13 million. But this is going to take some more time, probably one more year.

總而言之，隨著完井和鑽井技術的改進，我們應該能夠將每口井的總成本從 1550 萬美元降低到 1300 萬美元左右。但這還需要一些時間，可能還需要一年。

Okay. And what level of shale oil production do you expect from Rincon de Aranda? This is what we --

好的。您預計 Rincon de Aranda 的頁岩油產量將達到什麼水準？這就是我們--

Already mentioned.

已經提到了。

Already mentioned. Quarterly, I guess, by no, next quarter.

已經提到了。我想是每季一次，但不是下季。

Next quarter. Next quarter is okay, no problem. We are currently in -- I mean, in the range of 15,000 barrels per day and we should be increasing our production in order to reach 18,000 barrels per day by the end of the year by the last quarter. So that's more or less what we have in our minds for the ramp-up.

下個季度。下個季度還可以，沒問題。我們目前的產量是每天 15,000 桶，我們應該提高產量，到今年年底的最後一個季度達到每天 18,000 桶。這或多或少就是我們心中對於提升的想法。

We could say that. Before, we were expecting to reach that by year-end and now we are the average of the fourth quarter is going to be around that like the good results of Rincon de Aranda have anticipated.

我們可以這麼說。之前，我們預計到年底就能達到這個目標，現在我們預計第四季度的平均值將與 Rincon de Aranda 的良好業績預期大致相同。

Yeah. There is a mixture there, but all in all, we're going to be reaching the 18,000 or 19,000, 20,000 barrels per day by year-end. There might be a gap in the next quarter. By the end of the year, we should be definitely reaching the 15,000 to 20,000 barrels per day.

是的。雖然情況有好有壞，但總體而言，到今年年底，我們的日產量將達到 18,000 或 19,000 或 20,000 桶。下個季度可能會出現缺口。到今年年底，我們肯定能達到每天 15,000 到 20,000 桶的目標。

(inaudible) is all asking the evolution of Rincon de Aranda iron Ore.

（聽不清楚）都在問 Rincon de Aranda 鐵礦石的演變。

In terms of shale oil?

就頁岩油而言？

Shale oil. Yes.

頁岩油。是的。

The Rio Engenio project is very, very -- I mean it's at a very early stage, is exploratory. There have been -- the 2 wells have been drilled already and still a long way to go. I mean it's not a project. It's just a pilot.

Rio Engenio 專案非常非常——我的意思是它處於非常早期的階段，是探索性的。已經有兩口井鑽好了，但還有很長的路要走。我的意思是這不是一個項目。這只是一名飛行員。

It's in the border of Vaca Muerta, right?

它在瓦卡穆埃爾塔的邊界，對嗎？

It's a border of Vaca Muerta. The results have not been that bad. I mean, it's okay, but still a long way to go to decide well to move steadier.

這是瓦卡穆埃爾塔 (Vaca Muerta) 的邊界。結果並沒有那麼糟。我的意思是，這沒關係，但要做出正確的決定並更穩定地前進還有很長的路要走。

Well, (inaudible) Securities also ask about the listing trends. So we will answer that.

嗯，（聽不清楚）證券還詢問上市趨勢。所以我們會回答這個問題。

Bruno (inaudible) Morgan Stanley, is asking, can you comment on expectations for cash generation in second half of 2025. In particular, how should you -- should we see any the same CapEx intensity in Rincon de Aranda. What about the working capital should be any reversal of the pressure observed in the second half of 2025?

布魯諾（聽不清楚）摩根士丹利詢問，您能否評論一下 2025 年下半年現金產生的預期。具體來說，我們應該如何看待 Rincon de Aranda 的相同資本支出強度？那麼，2025 年下半年營運資金壓力是否會逆轉？

The cash generation in the second half of 2025 is going to be negative. As we have been saying for a few quarters 2025 and 2026 are going to be years where basically because of the money that we will be deploying in Rincon de Aranda that I remind you, it's going to be $1.5 billion between 2025 and 2026. We will be having negative free cash flow in Pampa. So we're investing in excess of our free cash flow generation. So the intensity will continue in the second half of this year.

2025 年下半年的現金產生將為負值。正如我們在幾個季度中所說的那樣，2025 年和 2026 年將是我們在 Rincon de Aranda 部署資金的年份，我提醒您，2025 年至 2026 年期間的資金將達到 15 億美元。我們在潘帕的自由現金流將為負。因此，我們的投資超出了我們的自由現金流產生範圍。因此，今年下半年這種緊張局勢仍將持續。

And in the first half of next year, you should be expecting a negative free cash flow. Anything else?

而明年上半年，你應該預期自由現金流將會出現負值。還要別的嗎？

Working capital. What do you think about working capital? Usually, it gets better in the second half of the year, right?

營運資金。您對營運資金有何看法？通常下半年就會好起來，對吧？

I don't know if you could

我不知道你是否可以

Would you like to comment?

您想發表評論嗎？

Capital, we don't present to have more working capital, should we recover all the production from the third and the fourth quarter should improve.

資本，我們目前沒有更多的營運資本，如果我們從第三季開始恢復所有生產，第四季的情況應該會有所改善。

Yeah and because -- and as sales will increase, so there will be a little bit more working capital involved in the coming quarters, but that's something natural because of the increase in sales.

是的，因為——隨著銷售額的增加，未來幾季將需要更多的營運資金，但這是由於銷售額增加而自然發生的事情。

Yeah. I remind you all that Pampa, it's a golf curve, right? This is our big moment. Q2 and Q3. Also, if you comment on the company's learning care in operating shale oil, Horacio?

是的。我提醒大家，Pampa，這是一個高爾夫曲線，對嗎？這是我們的重要時刻。Q2 和 Q3。另外，Horacio，您如何評估該公司在經營頁岩油方面的學習謹慎？

Yeah. Well, we are definitely learning a lot. And as I mentioned before, we were able to take advantage of this productivity increase, both in drilling and completion, and we are now trying to understand a little bit better whether the long-range sand versus a short-range sand and the spacing between stages have to remain constant or something that we can keep on trying to understand better and eventually improve some more dollars in our total well per cost and cost per well.

是的。嗯，我們確實學到了很多。正如我之前提到的，我們能夠利用這種生產力的提高，無論是在鑽井還是完井過程中，我們現在正試圖更好地了解長距離砂岩與短距離砂岩以及階段之間的間距是否必須保持不變，或者我們可以繼續嘗試更好地了解並最終在每口井總成本和每口井成本方面提高更多美元。

Yeah, asked also what positive surprises have you been seeing or any main challenges since the beginning of the operation at Rincon de Aranda?

是的，也問了自從 Rincon de Aranda 開始營運以來，您看到了哪些正面的驚喜或遇到了哪些主要挑戰？

Okay. I would say that the most interesting surprise we had in Rincon de Aranda is that originally, we had two landing zones, (inaudible) Organico Inferior. We had some expectations on the Organico Superior, but with a lot of uncertainty we drilled in pad number 6, we drilled well to the Organico Superior target and with a very, very good performance, and that opens up the possibility of developing as well the third layer that was not before taking into account.

好的。我想說，我們在 Rincon de Aranda 遇到的最有趣的驚喜是，我們最初有兩個著陸區，（聽不清楚）Organico Inferior。我們對 Organico Superior 抱有一定期望，但由於存在許多不確定性，我們在 6 號平台進行了鑽探，並順利達到了 Organico Superior 目標，而且表現非常非常好，這也為開發之前未考慮的第三層提供了可能性。

Right. So basically, the company is confident with the growth profile to reach the peak production as well?

正確的。那麼基本上，公司對達到產量高峰的成長前景充滿信心嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

All right. Next question comes from Lin Yang from HSBC. And She asked, well, for Horacio. Could you give us more color on the free LNG -- the (inaudible) LNG projects going on in Argentina, specifically on the timing and your interest in participating?

好的。下一個問題來自匯豐銀行的林楊。她問起的是奧拉西奧。您能否向我們詳細介紹免費液化天然氣——阿根廷正在進行的（聽不清楚）液化天然氣項目，特別是時間安排和您參與的興趣？

Can comment on the thing was participating in the other two projects, our YPF projects and rather ask them what they're going to do all of that.

可以評論一下參與另外兩個項目，即我們的 YPF 項目，並詢問他們將要做什麼。

Yeah, she asks, if we are interested in participating.

是的，她問我們是否有興趣參加。

We have -- as we always say, we always say very competitive gas reserves. So we are always interested in projects that will -- that could allow us to develop this extraordinary gas reserves that we have. Today, we are 100% focused on the CSA project, the one that it's already underway. And we are discussing with YPF and the other partners, any other possibility, but there's not much to say there.

正如我們常說的那樣，我們總是說我們的天然氣儲量非常具有競爭力。因此，我們始終對那些能夠讓我們開發所擁有的大量天然氣儲量的專案感興趣。今天，我們 100% 專注於已經在進行的 CSA 專案。我們正在與 YPF 和其他合作夥伴討論任何其他可能性，但目前還沒有太多可說的。

She asked, where do you see high upside potential power, TGS or E&P? Very straightforward.

她問道，您認為哪裡有較高的上漲潛力，TGS 還是 E&P？非常簡單。

I think there is upside potential in all the three segments. Obviously, in the next -- in the near term, E&P is where the growth on the EBITDA of Pampa is going to come from in a very significant way in terms because of the development of Rincon de Aranda.

我認為這三個領域都具有上漲潛力。顯然，在短期內，由於 Rincon de Aranda 的開發，E&P 將成為 Pampa EBITDA 成長的重要來源。

In the case of power, we are waiting for the new regulation. There are no news there, but we are waiting for that. It's not something, as we said, that's going to be a game changer for Pampa, but we expect an improvement in the power business because of the new regulation.

在電力方面，我們正在等待新的規定。那裡沒有消息，但我們正在等待。正如我們所說，這不會改變 Pampa 的現狀，但我們預計新法規將改善電力業務。

And in the short term, we should be also expecting the need of additional an increase in the capacity of the country on big projects that take a long time to develop like 3-years. So there's going to be an opportunity for Pampa to continue growing in power generation after the deregulation. And TGS also has a lot of infrastructure projects on the pipeline to continue growth. So we see upside potential in all the three segments.

而在短期內，我們也應該預期國家需要進一步增加需要 3 年時間才能開發的大型計畫的能力。因此，放鬆管制後，潘帕將有機會繼續發展發電業務。TGS 還計劃開展許多基礎設施項目，以保持持續成長。因此，我們認為這三個領域都具有上漲潛力。

Great. Well, and then obviously, the more synergies between power and E&P gas.

偉大的。那麼，顯然，電力和 E&P 天然氣之間的協同作用就更大。

That's quite small now.

現在這個數字已經很小了。

Yeah, referring to the --

是的，指的是--

Other energy storage.

其他能源儲存。

Yeah, (inaudible) storage auction that we participated with a project of 50 megawatts. We are waiting to see whether we will be awarded or not. It's a very competitive project. It will 3x more offers than what CAMMESA was requesting. In the specific case of our project, it's even more competitive because we are competing with like 6 or 7 projects.

是的，（聽不清楚）我們參與了一個 50 兆瓦專案的儲存拍賣。我們正在等待看我們是否會獲獎。這是一個競爭非常激烈的項目。它將提供比 CAMMESA 要求多 3 倍的報價。就我們的項目而言，競爭更加激烈，因為我們正在與 6 或 7 個項目競爭。

So it's very, very competitive. We don't know whether we're going to be awarded or not.

所以競爭非常非常激烈。我們不知道我們是否會獲獎。

Great. (inaudible) from (inaudible) is asking a lot of hedging strategy. We already talked about that, so we're going to skip it. The second question is regarding increasing our denominated costs within the fuel and gas segment, particularly lifting costs as well as selling SG&A. Is this trend primarily driven by the FX dynamics and inflationary pressures?

太好了。 （聽不清楚）來自（聽不清楚）正在詢問很多對沖策略。我們已經討論過這個問題了，所以我們將跳過它。第二個問題是關於增加燃料和天然氣部門的計價成本，特別是提高成本以及銷售、一般和行政費用。這趨勢主要受外匯動態和通膨壓力驅動嗎？

Or it's another factor I might be overlooking?

或者這是我可能忽略的另一個因素？

But we discussed the lifting cost of Rincon de Aranda.

但我們討論了 Rincon de Aranda 的提升成本。

Yeah. But it's -- he's asking the peso share if have dollar inflation, right? Yes, we had inflation, right?

是的。但他問的是比索的份額是否會受到美元通膨的影響，對嗎？是的，我們有通貨膨脹，對嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

We do have in on. It's smaller than other companies in the sense that we are -- no, in the sense that we are not a peso company, peso cost company. That will be worse. My third question is about the renewal of the hydroelectric concessions. What is the current status of the process?

我們確實有參與。從某種意義上來說，它比其他公司還要小——不，從某種意義上來說，我們不是一家比索公司，而是比索成本公司。那將會更糟。我的第三個問題是關於水電特許權續期的問題。目前該進程進展如何？

Have you been there any developments regarding the terms of the timing? Hydroelectric concessions. I guess the big ones, the ones that want to be tender, not in (inaudible).

關於時間安排方面有什麼進展嗎？水電特許權。我想那些大的，那些想要溫柔的，而不是（聽不清楚）。

Yeah. The first -- they should go the tenders of the new -- of the hydro concessions should go first with the (inaudible), the ones that are basically (inaudible) in Alcura, (inaudible). Those are the ones that are going to be auction first because they were the first that matured after is going to come the auction for (inaudible), which will impact us. But we don't have any clarity on the timing of this process.

是的。第一個——他們應該進行新的水電特許經營權招標——應該首先招標的是（聽不清楚），基本上是（聽不清楚）在阿爾庫拉的那些，（聽不清楚）。這些是將首先被拍賣的，因為它們是第一批成熟的，之後將被拍賣（聽不清楚），這將對我們產生影響。但我們並不清楚這過程的具體時間。

Four question goes to Bemos. The syndicated loan has been granted. When are the diversements expected to begin? And what is the project time line for the projected time line including the state of construction and operations?

有四個問題要問貝莫斯。該銀團貸款已獲批准。預計何時開始多元化？預計的專案時間表（包括建設和營運狀態）是怎樣的？

The financing was already deployed around $400 million. So we already started the use of cash of the financing. The advancement of the project is scheduled the first at different stages. The first stage has an advance of 23%. The second stages are around -- I don't remember exactly the -- and the like, but the project is -- everything is going as planned.

該筆融資目前已到位約 4 億美元。所以我們已經開始使用融資現金。項目將分階段推進。第一階段預付款為23%。第二階段正在進行中——我不記得具體是什麼了——但專案正在按計劃進行。

Well, he's asking the recent operations regarding the acquisition of 10% of fullback, the purchase of the dev in their cement that was released out there, what strategic objectives are driving these transactions.

嗯，他詢問了最近關於收購 10% 的後衛、購買他們發布的水泥中的開發人員的行動，推動這些交易的戰略目標是什麼。

I think we talked about this in the previous quarter. There's no strategic objective on neither of these investments. They are financial. Yeah, financial investments. So part of our portfolio management that we do on our cash position.

我想我們在上一季討論過這個問題。這兩項投資都沒有策略目標。他們是金融界的。是的，金融投資。因此，我們的投資組合管理的一部分是針對現金狀況進行的。

So there's not much to share that financial transactions or strategic ones.

因此，關於金融交易或策略交易，沒有太多可分享的內容。

And there's really, really tiny out percentage on our close to $1 billion cash, right?

我們接近 10 億美元的現金中，只有很小一部分是支出，對嗎？

Yeah. Absolutely.

是的。絕對地。

Well, this question always come out and it's coming from Francisco (inaudible) from (inaudible). He's asking, are you looking to change the CapEx or production forecast due to the weaker oil prices. Again.

嗯，這個問題總是會出現，它來自 Francisco（聽不清楚）（聽不清楚）。他問，由於油價疲軟，您是否打算改變資本支出或產量預測。再次。

No, we are not, then we -- no, definitely not. And that's. Additionally, that's why we are hedging our production so we have some more -- less uncertainty regarding the future of the project.

不，我們不是，那我們──不，絕對不是。就是這樣。此外，這就是我們對生產進行對沖的原因，這樣我們對專案的未來就會有更少的不確定性。

If I can add. I would say that we are not surprised by current prices because a year ago, when you were looking at what future curve of rent was forecasting was lower prices than last year. So this is not a surprise. Rincon de Aranda is a profitable project at these levels. And we are -- we will -- as Horacio say, we will reach the plateau of 20 -- close to 20,000 barrels a note.

如果我可以添加的話。我想說，我們對目前的價格並不感到驚訝，因為一年前，當你查看未來的租金曲線時，預測的價格會低於去年。所以這並不奇怪。從這些層面來看，Rincon de Aranda 是一個有利可圖的項目。正如奧拉西奧所說，我們將達到 20 至接近 20,000 桶的穩定水平。

We will reach a production of 20,000 barrels of oil per day by year-end. Once we have the central processing facility by the end of 2026, we will double -- more than double that production. And even at these prices, we are evaluating whether to reach another step in production intermedius before -- we haven't taken a final decision on that, but we are evaluating whether having an intermediate step next year before the as temporary with an initial temporary facility before the definitive facilities are online by year-end 2026.

今年底，我們的石油日產量將達到2萬桶。一旦我們在 2026 年底擁有中央處理設施，我們的產量將翻倍——甚至超過兩倍。即使以這樣的價格，我們也在評估是否要在生產中間階段再邁出一步——我們還沒有就此做出最終決定，但我們正在評估是否在明年採取一個中間步驟，在 2026 年底最終設施上線之前，先建立一個臨時設施。

All right. (inaudible) from Bank of America. He's asking local news mentioned that you presented a bit for total assets in Argentina. Do you plan to bid for new brownfield projects, oil projects? Or the follows on all should rely solely on Rincon de Aranda?

好的。 （聽不清楚）來自美國銀行。他詢問當地新聞提到你對阿根廷的總資產做了一些介紹。您是否計劃競標新的棕地項目、石油項目？或者接下來的一切都應該完全依靠 Rincon de Aranda？

What were the synergies with total assets?

與總資產的綜效如何？

As you know, in all the M&A transactions, we always sign NDAs that restricted us about maybe much information. So I don't want to breach what we have signed. So what I can say is that we are interested in increasing our acreage of our reserves where we would like to continue increasing production beyond where Rincon de Aranda is going to leave us, on an opportunistic basis.

如您所知，在所有併購交易中，我們總是簽署保密協議，以限制我們獲取大量資訊。所以我不想違反我們已經簽署的協議。因此我可以說的是，我們有興趣增加我們的儲量面積，我們希望在 Rincon de Aranda 給我們留下的產量之外繼續增加產量，這是一種機會主義的做法。

And so we will continue -- we will look to participate in any opportunity that may arise in the future. But yes. And regarding synergies, I would say there are any synergies between total between (inaudible) and Rincon de Aranda. It's another field to develop without any synergy, but

因此，我們將繼續進行——我們將尋求參與未來可能出現的任何機會。但確實如此。至於綜效，我想說的是（聽不清楚）和 Rincon de Aranda 之間存在協同效應。這是另一個沒有任何協同作用的領域，但是

They're pretty far away, actually.

事實上，它們距離相當遠。

Yeah, for 70 kilometers away.

是的，距離有70公里。

70 kilometers. All right. Well, completely another nature of question is about the power sector rebilization. This is a very -- could you give us any update on the timetable? Yeah, every quarter

70公里。好的。嗯，完全另一個性質的問題是關於電力部門的再平衡。這是一個非常——您能向我們提供有關時間表的最新資訊嗎？是的，每個季度

Nice question for the sector energy. I don't have an under (inaudible) --

關於能源產業，這是一個好問題。我沒有（聽不清楚）——

And yeah, and regarding synergies, I would say there are any synergies between totals between alonada and rico Nerada. It's it's another field to develop without any synergy, but.

是的，關於協同效應，我想說阿洛納達 (alonada) 和里科·內拉達 (rico Nerada) 之間存在協同效應。這是另一個無需任何協同作用即可發展的領域。

Real one.

真的。

Well, last year, when the issue, I do recall the number of the resolution, but it was before November of this year was supposed to be published all the new roles. So we are optimistic that in the next few months, we will have news about the upcoming regulation.

嗯，去年發布該決議時，我確實記得決議的編號，但應該在今年 11 月之前公佈所有新角色。因此，我們樂觀地認為，在接下來的幾個月裡，我們將獲得有關即將出台的法規的消息。

Yeah, what's the marginal cost of operation in dollar terms in dollar per megawatt hour for Pampa assets? And what do you estimate as an potential for this rose potential in shoe for this tier? I guess

是的，那麼 Pampa 資產的邊際營運成本（以美元計算，每兆瓦時）是多少？您認為這款玫瑰鞋在這一級別的潛力有多大？我猜

That's a question for you, if you have understood.

如果您理解的話，這是一個問題。

No. I guess, well, we have -- the deregulation is for the thermal, right, for the thermal units, if not the market marginal system for the thermal units. Obviously, the picking of the peakers known as the peakers, the open cycles, or weight of the lease in a normal day, right? Normal Argentina's normal day is around what sometimes -- the average car is $70 last year. But I guess, with more gas supply, less imports and so on, it should be going down, let's say, in the long term for a period of time is $60.

不。我想，嗯，我們已經放鬆了管制，是針對熱電廠的，對，針對熱電廠，如果不是針對熱電廠的市場邊際系統的話。顯然，峰值的選擇被稱為峰值、開放週期或正常日子中的租賃重量，對嗎？阿根廷的正常日均價格約為——去年平均每輛汽車的價格是 70 美元。但我猜，隨著天然氣供應增加、進口減少等等，油價應該會下降，比如說，長期來看，油價在一段時間內會下降到 60 美元。

But in a normal day, we know extreme weather, it should be around $40, $50 marginal cost, marginal costs. Yes, more or less. Right now, it's like 200. I think we are 10 degrees Celsius, right, this is winter season. And that's the opportunity line for the CCGTs, our CCGTs it's $35 per megawatt hour of marginal -- average cost -- variable cost.

但在正常情況下，我們知道極端天氣的邊際成本應該在 40 美元、50 美元左右。是的，或多或少。現在大概是200。我認為現在是 10 攝氏度，對，這是冬季。這就是 CCGT 的機會線，我們的 CCGT 的邊際成本（平均成本）為每兆瓦時 35 美元，即變動成本。

And then the other ones, the one that is very close and then a little bit out of the league, but this is still competitive in alarm. But truly out of the leg in a normal day should be the beakers. I can say more A lot of information. A lot of information to digest, yes.

然後是其他的，一個非常接近，然後有點超出聯盟，但這仍然具有競爭力。但正常情況下真正從腿上掉下來的應該是燒杯。我可以說更多 的資訊。是的，有很多資訊需要消化。

Well, Maria Catarosi from (inaudible). He's asking now the FID has approval the MK2, the floating LNG project. What are the key milestones, the next key milestones for the (inaudible) project? Can you share more details on Pampa's expected equity and EBITDA contribution? An upstream and the project itself.

嗯，來自的 Maria Catarosi（聽不清楚）。他現在要求最終投資部批准 MK2 浮動液化天然氣計畫。該專案的關鍵里程碑和下一個關鍵里程碑是什麼？您能否分享更多有關 Pampa 預期股權和 EBITDA 貢獻的細節？上游和項目本身。

And from the LNG project once it's operational. I guess, firstly, what kind of next movement is in the (inaudible) project, I guess.

一旦液化天然氣項目投入營運。我想，首先，我想問一下（聽不清楚）專案中的下一步動作是什麼。

Well, we are in the process of building the pipeline into the --

嗯，我們正在建造管道--

Benefit of the pipe.

管道的好處。

Yeah. But first, the interconnection with the (inaudible) pipeline. Yes. So we are now in the construction of the interconnection with the (inaudible) project than the installation of the compression plant for the first stage, that should be ready by 2027 in order to be able to feed the first trials of the (inaudible) is moving from Cameron to shipyard in Singapore by mid next year and will be -- coming to Argentina by September '27.

是的。但首先，與（聽不清楚）管道的互連。是的。因此，我們現在正在建造與（聽不清楚）專案的互連，然後安裝第一階段的壓縮設備，該設備應於 2027 年準備就緒，以便能夠為（聽不清楚）的首次試驗提供動力，該設備將於明年年中從卡梅倫轉移到新加坡的造船廠，並將於 27 年 9 月抵達阿根廷。

We start build in already been built in the shipyard. It's doing -- I mean the project is advancing as was expected and should be online by again, third quarter of '28. At the same time, we should make a final decision regarding the construction of the dedicated pipeline from Neogen to the Golfo San Matias, which is currently under consideration.

我們開始在船廠建造已經建造好的船。它正在進行中——我的意思是該項目正在按預期推進，應該會在 28 年第三季度再次上線。同時，我們應該對目前正在考慮的從尼奧根到聖馬蒂亞斯灣的專用管道建設做出最終決定。

Great. And EBITDA and equity is 20% and EBITDA well until this is now obviously.

偉大的。EBITDA 和股權為 20%，EBITDA 到目前為止顯然如此。

The EBITDA will depend very much on LNG prices. So it's very variable and impossible to see at this moment.

EBITDA 很大程度取決於液化天然氣價格。因此，它的變化非常大，目前不可能看到。

Well, he's asking any chance of shareholder distribution we're assuming in 2027. I guess he's talking about the buybacks because in 2027 once CapEx levels are normalized, and free cash flow turns positive.

嗯，他問的是我們在 2027 年假設的股東分配機會。我猜他談論的是回購，因為到 2027 年，一旦資本支出水準恢復正常，自由現金流就會變成正數。

We are far away from 2027, but I'm sure there's going to be a lot of new things going on by 2027. So too early to answer that.

我們距離 2027 年還很遙遠，但我相信到 2027 年將會發生很多新的事情。現在回答這個問題還為時過早。

We have to keep it up because we have cool questions. Safra from -- Carneiro from Safra. She is asking, we saw high level possible new projects and developments the, combo participate like the application to the rig for the CPS, the best battery standard, the TPM. Can you comment on the next possible infrastructure projects that can materialize in Pampa?

我們必須堅持下去，因為我們有很酷的問題。來自薩夫拉的卡內羅－來自薩夫拉的卡內羅。她問道，我們看到了高水準的可能的新項目和發展，組合參與就像CPS、最佳電池標準、TPM在鑽機上的應用。您能否評論一下潘帕省可能實施的下一個基礎設施項目？

Yeah. Eventually, if we move ahead with -- well, we are moving ahead with the LNG project, we will have to supply those 6 million cubic meters per day to the vessels. So we will have to increase our treatment facilities in Sierra Chata to reach those 6 million per day. And that will definitely be a possibility for filing for the really -- for that investment project as we did for Rincon de Aranda, as a midstream project.

是的。最終，如果我們繼續推進——好吧，我們正在推進液化天然氣項目，我們將必須每天向船隻供應 600 萬立方公尺。因此，我們必須增加 Sierra Chata 的處理設施，以達到每天 600 萬人的治療量。這絕對有可能成為我們為 Rincon de Aranda 投資計畫申請的一個真正可能性，就像我們為 Rincon de Aranda 申請的一個中游計畫一樣。

And the second question of (inaudible) allowed cost we already talked about. (inaudible) from Alaria. She's asking what level on debt and leverage ratios are projected for 2026 and 2027, considering the projects already approved another wave.

第二個問題是（聽不清楚）允許的成本，我們已經討論過了。 （聽不清楚）來自 Alaria。她詢問，考慮到已經批准另一波項目，預計 2026 年和 2027 年的債務和槓桿率將達到什麼水準。

For this year, we are actually 1.1 times net leverage EBITDA. We are expecting to maintain around this level of leverage this year. And hopefully, by next year or by the end of next year, which would decrease a little bit this level of leverage as we're going to and -- continue to generate new EBITDA to the company. So I think we will reach the peak of net leverage, what are the things being equal during the next quarter by year-end.

今年，我們的淨槓桿比率實際上是 EBITDA 的 1.1 倍。我們預計今年的槓桿率將維持在這一水準。希望到明年或明年年底，槓桿率能夠稍微降低一點，因為我們將繼續為公司創造新的 EBITDA。因此，我認為，如果一切順利的話，到年底的下一季度，我們將達到淨槓桿率的峰值。

Well, the other question is about the scheduled maintenance works at the power plants that will take place in '25 and '26. So we are going from a big one right now. The our works in Senarra. Okay. (inaudible) keeps asking. But usually, we do maintenance overflows in the in October area when there is --

嗯，另一個問題是關於 25 年和 26 年發電廠的定期維護工作。所以我們現在就從一個大問題開始。我們在塞納拉的作品。好的。 （聽不清楚）繼續問。但通常情況下，我們會在 10 月進行維護溢出，因為--

Usually either during the fall or the squeezing --

通常在秋季或擠壓期間--

That's right. And antialiasing another question, what do you see the opportunity for improvement in the discount versus Brent -- on Brent? See, the discount is $1, I guess?

這是正確的。另一個問題是，您認為布蘭特原油相對於布蘭特原油的折扣有哪些改善的機會？瞧，折扣是 1 美元，對吧？

$1.5.

1.5 美元。

$1.5. Do you see shrinking?

1.5美元。你看到縮水了嗎？

It's very difficult to say. It is a market -- it's not --

這很難說。這是一個市場——但不是--

Or at least when we reach to the year-end target again.

或至少當我們再次達到年底目標時。

This is not related to our production. It's a market discount that (inaudible).

這與我們的生產無關。這是市場折扣（聽不清楚）。

For (inaudible), I don't know. Maybe it depends on the (inaudible) around the world.

對於（聽不清楚），我不知道。也許這取決於世界各地的（聽不清楚）。

It improved though, -- it was --

不過情況有所改善——--

It was 3 to 1.5. Now we may go again back to 2.2, we don't know.

之前是3比1.5。現在可能又回到2.2，我們不知道。

It ranges between 3 and 0.

其範圍在 3 到 0 之間。

Yeah, not 0, but 3 and 1, let's say.

是的，不是 0，而是 3 和 1。

Last year was 5, I think.

我認為去年是 5。

Well, maybe it got to 5 for a small period.

嗯，也許在短時間內達到 5。

Yeah. Well, (inaudible) from Fundamenta. He is an investor, and he is asking my questions regarding other operating income in Oil and Gas segment. This was $12 million versus $28 million last year. Can you comment -- can you explain why?

是的。嗯，（聽不清楚）來自 Fundamenta。他是一位投資者，他向我詢問有關石油和天然氣部門其他營業收入的問題。這一數字為 1200 萬美元，而去年為 2800 萬美元。你能評論一下嗎——你能解釋一下原因嗎？

Well, this is because of the plan gas income. The higher the prices to retail that we charge in the sales to lower the compensation to the plan gas price that we agree. Last year was the what because the tariff increases were in midway. I think it was $2 per million BTU, while in the winter was 4.5, well, the subsidy covers that gap between 4.5 and 2. Now that there's constant and frequent tariff increases to the retail, that gap shrinks.

嗯，這是因為計劃天然氣收入。我們在銷售中收取的零售價格越高，我們同意的計劃天然氣價格的補償就越低。去年是什麼，因為關稅上調正處於中期。我認為當時每百萬 BTU 的價格是 2 美元，而冬季是 4.5 美元，所以補貼彌補了 4.5 美元和 2 美元之間的差距。現在，由於零售關稅不斷頻繁上調，這一差距正在縮小。

That's right.

這是正確的。

Why one -- how much do we -- how much should we expect going forward? Well, it should be -- frankly, you should be there, right, with this government's target of no fiscal changes on abruptly because of the tariff increases. There's monthly increases in the tariffs in the regulated side and also in the -- well, in the cost of gas, it's not so frequent, but it's pretty often. Were down to lower gas production for El Mangrullo this quarter is around 19%. Should we expect peak gas production until CESA comes online in 2028?

為什麼──我們對未來應該抱持什麼樣的期望？嗯，應該是——坦白說，你應該明白，對吧，本屆政府的目標是不因關稅上調而突然改變財政政策。受監管方面的關稅每月都會上漲，而且天然氣成本也會上漲，雖然不是那麼頻繁，但也很常見。本季 El Mangrullo 的天然氣產量下降了約 19%。我們是否應該預期天然氣產量在 2028 年 CESA 上線之前達到高峰？

Do you want to expect what again?

你又想期待什麼呢？

Yes. Well, there is a lower production in El Mangrullo this quarter. Should we expect to repeat when CESA comes online in 2028? I think -- I guess he's asking that.

是的。嗯，本季 El Mangrullo 的產量較低。當 CESA 於 2028 年上線時，我們是否應該期待重複這一現象？我想——我猜他是在問這個。

Where El Mangrullo will increase its production when CESA is online?

當 CESA 上線後，El Mangrullo 的產量將會增加嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

Well, this is something that we still need to understand because, obviously, you're going to be feeding CESA with the most efficient as we have.

嗯，這是我們仍然需要了解的事情，因為顯然，您將以最有效的方式向 CESA 提供資訊。

Works for, but can you ask -- can you tell us what is the actual strategy of the company? Where do you see more value?

為...工作，但是你能問一下－你能告訴我們公司的實際策略是什麼嗎？您認為哪裡更有價值？

You're seeing we have already in total of the three segments of the company.

您所看到的是，我們公司總共已經有三個部門。

Oil and gas, what are the plans? We want more exposure to oil and gas. We already talked about on the main. (inaudible) from and (inaudible). Says congratulations, Rincon de Aranda. And then he asks about the CapEx and the free cash flow guidance. We already talked about that. He asked about the cooler placement after this ramp-up, this is specifically, how much are you placing locally and how much are exploring?

石油和天然氣，有什麼計畫？我們希望更多地接觸石油和天然氣。我們已經討論過主要內容。 （聽不清楚）來自和（聽不清楚）。表示祝賀，Rincon de Aranda。然後他詢問了資本支出和自由現金流指導。我們已經討論過這個了。他詢問了此次增產後冷卻器放置的情況，具體來說，您在本地放置了多少，又有多少在探索？

Okay. Well, -- I mean, by the time we reach the peak product or the plateau production, we will be exporting 100% of the production. Until that, we are in a mixture between local market and export market because we are -- we don't have enough transportation capacity of our own. So we are buying transportation capacity to third parties and those third parties to sell transportation capacity, but the possibility of selling crude oil and the extra parity price. So we are selling an export parity price.

好的。嗯，——我的意思是，當我們達到產品高峰或穩定產量時，我們將出口 100% 的產量。在此之前，我們處於本地市場和出口市場的混合體，因為我們自己的運輸能力不足。因此，我們向第三方購買運輸能力，並向第三方出售運輸能力，但有可能出售原油並收取額外的平價。因此，我們以出口平價出售。

Now we don't know whether that oil is being exported or is being redirected into the local market. But economically speaking, if we were exporting.

現在我們不知道這些石油是被出口還是被重新運往國內市場。但從經濟角度來說，如果我們出口。

That is, I think, the main point to clarify, there is no difference today between the local price of crude vis-a-vis the export parity.

也就是說，我認為，需要澄清的重點是，今天國內原油價格與出口平價之間沒有差異。

Yeah. Actually, this quarter, we exported most.

是的。實際上，本季我們的出口量最大。

That's right.

這是正確的。

Another question is from (inaudible) from Radico. We asks, recently, we've seen news were mentioning a potential slowdown in oil production growth in Argentina due to the financial equipment constraints.

另一個問題來自 Radico（聽不清楚）。我們問，最近我們看到有新聞提到，由於財政設備限制，阿根廷的石油產量成長可能會放緩。

Financial --

金融的--

And free equipment --

以及免費裝備--

We'll have financial equipment number.

我們將有財務設備編號。

How does (inaudible) view this trend?

(聽不清楚) 如何看待這趨勢？

No, we are not slowing it up.

不，我們並沒有放慢速度。

No, it is not our case. But we do agree, and we do see that.

不，這不是我們的情況。但我們確實同意，並且我們確實看到了這一點。

There might be a reduction in the second half of 2025 of drilling and completion activity. There might be some reduction.

2025 年下半年鑽井和完井活動可能會減少。可能會有所減少。

Actually, you forecast that before. You said it. It's not going to be

事實上，你之前就預測到了這一點。你說得對。不會的

We said that the lubricant project was not going to be filled completely, and this is happening.

我們說過潤滑劑項目不會完全填滿，而這種情況正在發生。

That forecast was accurate.

那個預測是準確的。

It was agreed in terms of -- that is why we went forward with Rincon de Aranda, even without having secure transportation capacity, but we felt that was going to be spare capacity after the (inaudible) came online.

雙方就以下方面達成了一致——這就是我們推進 Rincon de Aranda 計畫的原因，儘管當時沒有安全的運輸能力，但我們認為，在（聽不清楚）上線後，這將成為閒置產能。

Well, (inaudible) is asking beyond the oil prices, what do you think it could be the potential factors of this slowdown in Vaca Muerta? No as hope, of course, but Vaca Muerta, why is it happening?

好吧，（聽不清楚）除了油價之外，您認為還有哪些因素可能導致瓦卡穆埃爾塔經濟放緩？當然，沒有希望，但是 Vaca Muerta，為什麼會發生這種事呢？

There are some -- and this is just a personal view, but there are some companies that have go through a process of acquiring new blocks and those new blocks need to be developed, and it takes time to plan and to deploy that -- so maybe that's what's area, I would say, making a little bit low -- not so fast the slowing, the -- the increase in drilling and completion. They're still trying to ingest when they already acquired.

有一些——這只是個人觀點，但有些公司已經經歷了收購新區塊的過程，而這些新區塊需要開發，這需要時間來規劃和部署——所以也許這就是我想說的，使得鑽井和完井的增長有點低——不是那麼快放緩——鑽井和完井的增長。當他們已經獲得食物時，他們仍然試圖攝取。

All right.

好的。

And probably a lower Brent price is the speed of the growth is going to be slower. Argentina will continue growing extraction of oil probably at a lower -- at a lower state because of the lower price.

布蘭特原油價格下跌可能會導致成長速度放緩。由於油價較低，阿根廷的石油開採量將繼續增加，但可能處於較低水準。

Edward Palma from Iowa, if you ask. Power generation, do you see an increase in the spot prices? Any change in your energy matrix? I guess what he's asking the spot prices is the increases so far in this scheme could it be higher than the inflation and devaluation. So far --

如果你問的話，那是來自愛荷華州的愛德華·帕爾馬。發電方面，您看到現貨價格上漲了嗎？你的能量矩陣有變化嗎？我猜他問的是現貨價格到目前為止的漲幅是否會高於通膨和貶值。迄今--

So far as the -- for the last 12-months or 1.5-years has been there have been dollar increases because of the peso prices have been increased above the devaluation of the exchange rate. Particularly this month, it happened the opposite. I don't expect any significant change going forward.

就過去 12 個月或 1.5 年來而言，美元一直在上漲，因為比索的價格上漲超過了匯率的貶值。尤其是本月，情況卻截然相反。我預計未來不會有任何重大變化。

Then another question from Verra (inaudible) which I don't remember working works for. But are you interested in the stake that the government wants to sell in Transener? Is there any priority or shareholders' agreement that for given that your controlling partner -- co-controlling partner?

然後是 Verra 的另一個問題（聽不清楚），我不記得該問題是如何解決的。但是您對政府想要出售的 Transener 股份感興趣嗎？假設您的控股合夥人－共同控股合夥人，是否存在任何優先權或股東協議？

It's not an issue of shareholders' agreement. It's an issue of the low electricity lower in Argentina that restricted us from controlling the transmission. If you are either a power generator or a distributor, you cannot fully control the transmission. You can have co-control that is what we currently have, but we cannot go beyond that.

這不是股東協議的問題。這是由於阿根廷的電力供應不足導致我們無法控制電力傳輸。如果您是發電廠或分銷商，您就無法完全控制傳輸。你可以擁有我們目前所擁有的共同控制權，但我們不能超越這一點。

All right. Well, (inaudible) from Santander. He has straight forward, any chance that Pampa negative?

好的。嗯，（聽不清楚）來自桑坦德銀行。他直截了當，潘帕斯有負面的可能性嗎？

No.

不。

That's it. reached all the questions. Gus, Horacio, Fito, would you like to comment something else that we didn't cover in this very broad Q&A session.

就這樣。回答了所有問題。Gus、Horacio、Fito，你們想評論一下我們在這次非常廣泛的問答環節中沒有涉及的其他內容嗎？

I don't think.

我不這麼認為。

Nothing more.

而已。

Nothing more. Well, I expect us to -- our next call is in November. So I hope we have a better putting some (inaudible) -- any questions you may have, please let us know, Raquel and I are fully there for you. have a good time. Bye.

而已。嗯，我希望我們——我們的下一次電話會議是在十一月。所以我希望我們能更好地提出一些（聽不清楚）——如果您有任何問題，請告訴我們，拉奎爾和我都會全力為您服務。玩得開心。再見。

Thank you.

謝謝。