PagSeguro Digital Ltd (PAGS) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good evening. My name is Ogier, and I'll be your conference operator today. Welcome to PagSeguro Digital's earnings call for the second quarter of 2025.

晚安.我叫奧吉爾，今天我將擔任您的會議接線生。歡迎參加 PagSeguro Digital 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。

The slide presentation for today's webcast is available on PagSeguro Digital investor relations website at investors.pagbank.com. Please refer to the forward-looking statement and reconciliation disclosure in this presentation and in the company's earnings release appendix. (Operator Instructions)

今日網路直播的幻燈片簡報可在 PagSeguro Digital 投資者關係網站 investors.pagbank.com 取得。請參閱本簡報中的前瞻性聲明及對帳揭露，以及公司收益報告附錄。（操作員指示）

Today's conference call is being recorded and will be available on the company's IR website after the event is concluded.

今天的電話會議正在錄製中，會議結束後將在該公司的 IR 網站上發布。

I would now like to return the call over to Gustavo Sechin, Head of IR. Please go ahead, sir.

現在我想把電話轉回給投資人關係主管 Gustavo Sechin。先生，請繼續。

Hello, everyone, and welcome to PagBank earnings conference call for the quarter ending in June 2025. I'm Gustavo Sechin, PagBank's Investor Relations Director.

大家好，歡迎參加 PagBank 2025 年 6 月結束的季度財報電話會議。我是 PagBank 投資者關係總監 Gustavo Sechin。

Thank you for taking the time to join us today. We will begin by sharing the highlights for the quarter, followed by our live Q&A session. Tonight, I am joined by Ricardo Dutra, our Principal Executive Officer; Alexandre Magnani, our CEO; and Artur Schunck, our CFO.

感謝您今天抽出時間來參加我們的活動。我們將首先分享本季的亮點，然後進行現場問答環節。今晚，與我一起出席的還有我們的執行長 Ricardo Dutra、我們的執行長 Alexandre Magnani 和我們的財務長 Artur Schunck。

Now, I would like to turn it over to Dutra. Please, Dutra.

現在，我想把發言權交給杜特拉。請你，杜特拉。

Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining our second-quarter 2025 earnings call. I will begin with slide 4, which summarizes our key operational and financial highlights.

大家好，感謝您參加我們的 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。我將從幻燈片 4 開始，它總結了我們的主要營運和財務亮點。

This quarter, we continue to execute our strategy with discipline, navigating a more challenging macroeconomic environment while maintaining our focus on long-term value creation. We ended the quarter with 33.1 million clients, growing 1.5 million clients year over year.

本季度，我們繼續嚴格執行我們的策略，以應對更具挑戰性的宏觀經濟環境，同時專注於長期價值創造。本季結束時，我們擁有 3,310 萬客戶，比去年同期增加了 150 萬客戶。

Despite facing a tougher economic environment and harder comparison from 2Q '24, which made top line growth more challenging, we managed to grow and preserve profitability. Total payment volume TPV in our payments business reached BRL130 billion, a 4% year-over-year growth.

儘管自 2024 年第二季以來，我們面臨著更加嚴峻的經濟環境和更艱難的比較，導致營收成長更具挑戰性，但我們仍成功地實現了成長並保持了獲利能力。我們支付業務的總支付量TPV達到1,300億巴西雷亞爾，年增4%。

Our credit portfolio and funding base continued their double-digit growth with highlights to the lower APY and the gradual acceleration of unsecured lending, reflecting the strength of our ecosystem in our commitment to broaden access to financial services prudently.

我們的信貸組合和資金基礎持續保持兩位數成長，突顯出較低的年利率和無擔保貸款的逐步加速，這反映了我們致力於審慎擴大金融服務管道的生態系統的強大。

Going to financial highlights. Our net revenues increase at 11% year over year, reaching BRL5.1 billion. When excluding costs related to interchange fees, net revenue increased impressive 18% year over year, capturing the repricing efforts implemented in the period.

前往財務亮點。我們的淨收入年增 11%，達到 51 億巴西雷亞爾。不包括與交換費相關的成本，淨收入年增了 18%，反映了該期間實施的重新定價措施。

Our non-GAAP net income was BRL565 million, a 4% growth compared to Q2 '24, while a diluted EPS on a GAAP basis reached BRL1.79, 14% growth year over year, supported by consistent cost discipline and capital efficiency.

我們的非公認會計準則淨收入為 5.65 億巴西雷亞爾，與 2024 年第二季度相比增長了 4%，而根據公認會計準則計算的稀釋每股收益達到 1.79 巴西雷亞爾，同比增長 14%，這得益於持續的成本控制和資本效率。

Reinforcing our balanced approach to capital allocation, announced in May 2025, we returned BRL1.1 billion in excess capital to our shareholders year-to-date, with BRL700 million in share repurchase and over BRL400 million as dividends.

為了加強我們在 2025 年 5 月宣布的均衡資本配置方法，今年迄今我們已向股東返還了 11 億巴西雷亞爾的超額資本，其中 7 億巴西雷亞爾以股票回購的形式返還，超過 4 億巴西雷亞爾以股息的形式派發。

In conclusion, our results reflected a business that remains solid, profitable, and resilient. Since our IPO, we have consistently delivered positive earnings every quarter, a track record we are committed to maintain through continued execution, efficiency, and the strategic discipline.

總而言之，我們的業績反映出我們的業務依然穩健、獲利且富有彈性。自首次公開募股以來，我們每季都持續實現正收益，我們致力於透過持續執行、提高效率和策略紀律來保持這一業績記錄。

On slide 5, turning to the micro environment, we continue to see signs of broad-based economic cooling in Brazil, which may represent an additional challenge going forward. Consumer confidence has weakened, leading to a slowdown in discretionary spending, especially in sectors sensitive to interest rates and inflation.

在第 5 張投影片中，轉向微觀環境，我們繼續看到巴西經濟普遍降溫的跡象，這可能代表著未來的額外挑戰。消費者信心減弱，導致可自由支配支出放緩，尤其是在對利率和通膨敏感的行業。

GDP growth has decelerated to about half of last year's pace, largely due to the loss of momentum in services, which had previously been a strong driver of economic activity. As a result of this softer backdrop, we observed the contraction in client origination in the market as both consumers and financial institutions adopted a more cautious stance.

GDP 成長已放緩至去年增速的一半左右，主要原因是服務業失去了成長動力，而服務業先前一直是經濟活動的強勁推動力。由於這種較為疲軟的背景，我們觀察到市場客戶來源數量出現萎縮，因為消費者和金融機構都採取了更謹慎的立場。

Risk aversion increased, and landing standards become more selective, especially for unsecured products. In this context, Q2 '25 results is a testament to our ability to manage the company despite economic cycles. It is important to mention we expect the current market backdrop to remain.

風險規避情緒增強，落地標準也變得更加嚴格，尤其是對於無抵押產品。在此背景下，2025 年第二季的業績證明了我們有能力在經濟週期中管理公司。值得一提的是，我們預計目前的市場背景將會持續下去。

On slide 6, despite this more cautious economic backdrop, our track record demonstrates the resilience and consistency of our business model in creating long-term value. Here, we showcase the resilience and consistency of our business model in creating long-term value.

在第 6 張投影片中，儘管經濟背景更加謹慎，但我們的業績記錄證明了我們的商業模式在創造長期價值方面的彈性和一致性。在這裡，我們展示了我們的商業模式在創造長期價值方面的彈性和一致性。

Since our IPO in 2018, we have grown our GAAP EPS by approximately 2.3 times, representing a compounding annual growth rate of 15% even amid this change in industry dynamics and events like the COVID pandemic. Along the way, we've achieved several strategic milestones that expanded our addressable market and strengthened profitability.

自 2018 年 IPO 以來，我們的 GAAP EPS 成長了約 2.3 倍，即使在產業動態變化和 COVID 大流行等事件中，複合年增長率仍達到 15%。在此過程中，我們實現了多個策略里程碑，擴大了我們的潛在市場並增強了獲利能力。

These initiatives have laid the foundation for sustained EPS growth, supported by operational leverage and disciplined execution. This performance is a result of our strategic focus on recurrent earnings, which have supported predictability and long-term value creation.

這些措施為持續的每股盈餘成長奠定了基礎，並得到了營運槓桿和嚴格執行的支持。這一業績源於我們對經常性收益的策略關注，這支持了可預測性和長期價值創造。

A disciplined capital allocation, combining share buybacks and dividend distribution, with a total yield of approximately 18% year-to-date in the robust capital position which continues to give us flexibility to pursue value or creative initiatives.

嚴格的資本配置，結合股票回購和股息分配，年初至今的總收益率約為 18%，資本狀況強勁，這讓我們能夠繼續靈活地追求價值或創造性舉措。

Moving to slide 8. Here, we see how we've been building the company with a clear long-term vision. Our fully integrated ecosystem, combining payments and banking, allows us to create a strong synergy between the two, using one to reinforce the other.

移至幻燈片 8。在這裡，我們看到了我們如何以清晰的長期願景來建立公司。我們的完全整合的生態系統結合了支付和銀行業務，使我們能夠在兩者之間建立強大的協同作用，利用一個來加強另一個。

By offering a broad and complementary set of products, we've been able to increase client engagement, improve monetization, and capture a larger share of wallets, positioning ourselves as the primary financial partner for our clients.

透過提供廣泛且互補的產品，我們能夠提高客戶參與度、提高貨幣化程度並獲得更大的份額，從而將自己定位為客戶的主要金融合作夥伴。

Moving to the next slide. Beyond the solid results we delivered so far, there is still significant room to growth across our platform. In some areas, our banking business or market share is still below 1%, which reinforces our view that we are only beginning to tap into the full potential of what we can build.

移至下一張投影片。除了我們迄今為止所取得的堅實成果之外，我們的平台仍有很大的成長空間。在某些地區，我們的銀行業務或市場份額仍低於 1%，這強化了我們的觀點，即我們才剛開始挖掘我們所能建立的全部潛力。

As we continue to scale our banking operations, we unlock new growth opportunities, whether by deepening cross-sell, strengthening our deposit base, or expanding and diversifying our credit portfolio in a disciplinary way.

隨著我們不斷擴大銀行業務規模，我們釋放了新的成長機會，無論是透過深化交叉銷售，加強存款基礎，或是以規範的方式擴大和多樣化我們的信貸組合。

With that, I will hand it over to Alex, who will take you through the operational highlights for the quarter. Thank you.

說完這些，我將把話題交給 Alex，他將向大家介紹本季的營運亮點。謝謝。

Thank you, Ricardo. Hello, everyone. In this section, we walk through the performance of our business units for the second quarter of 2025.

謝謝你，里卡多。大家好。在本節中，我們將介紹 2025 年第二季各業務部門的業績。

Before we start, just a quick catch up on slide 11. As announced last quarter, we adopted new client segmentation starting in first quarter '25 to better reflect the dynamics of our business. Merchants with TPV up to BRL3 million per month are now classified as MSMBs compared to the previous threshold of BRL1 million.

在我們開始之前，我們先快速回顧一下第 11 張投影片。正如上個季度宣布的那樣，我們從 2025 年第一季開始採用新的客戶細分，以更好地反映我們的業務動態。每月 TPV 高達 300 萬巴西雷亞爾的商家現在被歸類為 MSMB，而先前的門檻為 100 萬巴西雷亞爾。

Merchants with TPV above BRL3 million, along with our online merchants, including commerce and cross-order, are now grouped under the large retail and online segment, previous referred as [LMECH]. This change is fully aligned with our strategic focus on the MSMB space and gives a clear view of how we are growing across clients' profiles.

TPV 超過 300 萬巴西雷亞爾的商家以及我們的線上商家（包括商業和跨訂單）現在歸入大型零售和線上細分市場，之前稱為[LMECH]。這項變更完全符合我們對 MSMB 領域的策略重點，並清楚地表明了我們如何在客戶群中持續發展。

Moving on to slide 12. We ended second quarter '25 with 33.1 million clients, adding 1.5 million new clients over the last 12 months. Our active client base reached 17.7 million, supported by a healthy 3% year-over-year growth in banking-only clients. Consistent with our prior quarters, our focus has been on activate higher value clients with an emphasis on monetization and profitability rather than pure volume growth.

移至投影片 12。截至 2025 年第二季度，我們擁有 3,310 萬名客戶，過去 12 個月內新增了 150 萬客戶。我們的活躍客戶群達到了 1,770 萬，其中純銀行客戶數量年增 3%。與前幾季一致，我們的重點是激活更高價值的客戶，強調貨幣化和獲利能力，而不是純粹的數量成長。

Now on slide 13, we show that our merchants acquiring business keeps growing in all segments. TPV reached BRL130 billion in Q2 '25, growing 4% year over year, with TPV per merchant growing to 7% on a yearly basis despite the macroeconomic challenge that we mentioned earlier.

現在在第 13 張投影片上，我們展示了我們的商家收單業務在各個領域持續成長。2025 年第二季度，TPV 達到 1,300 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 4%，儘管面臨我們先前提到的宏觀經濟挑戰，但每位商家的 TPV 比去年同期成長 7%。

Since the fourth quarter of last year, we have been implementing reprice initiatives focused on profitability rather than net additions. These efforts were designed to mitigate the impact of rising financial costs.

自去年第四季以來，我們一直在實施以獲利能力而非淨增值為重點的重新定價措施。這些舉措旨在減輕財務成本上升的影響。

In 2Q '25, MSMB segment grew 2% year over year, supported by stable activity in the physical POS channel. Meanwhile, a large retail and online segment which includes merchants with monthly TPV above BRL3 million, as well as e-commerce and cross-border operations, grew 10% year over year, showing our continued focus on attracting merchants with higher presence in the digital space.

2025 年第二季度，MSMB 部門年增 2%，這得益於實體 POS 通路的穩定活動。同時，包括月 TPV 超過 300 萬巴西雷亞爾的商家以及電子商務和跨境業務在內的大型零售和線上業務同比增長了 10%，這表明我們繼續專注於吸引在數位領域具有更高影響力的商家。

Within the online segment, TPV grew 50% year over year, driven by stronger penetration in both e-commerce and cross-border. We have onboarded new clients in marketplace, gaming, and other digital goods verticals, further reinforcing our position in this fast growing space.

在線上領域，TPV 年成長 50%，這得益於電子商務和跨境滲透率的提高。我們已經在市場、遊戲和其他數位商品垂直領域吸收了新客戶，進一步鞏固了我們在這個快速成長領域的地位。

On slide 14, we show that our strategy to deliver seamless digital experience by integrating payments, banking, and value-added service drove cash-in levels to BRL91 billion in the PagBank accounts, mainly to do a higher transactionality across our client base.

在投影片 14 中，我們展示了透過整合支付、銀行業務和增值服務來提供無縫數位體驗的策略，該策略推動 PagBank 帳戶的現金流入水準達到 910 億巴西雷亞爾，主要是為了在我們的客戶群中提高交易量。

Importantly, this growth is underpinned by sustained high penetration of our insurance and investment products which contributed to a stronger deposit franchise during the period. As a result, cash-in per active client, a key metric of our client engagement, grew 18% compared to second quarter '24, reaching BRL5,200 per client, showcasing both deeper client monetization and the ongoing expansion of our active client base.

重要的是，這一增長得益於我們保險和投資產品的持續高滲透率，這有助於在此期間增強存款特許經營權。因此，衡量我們客戶參與度的一個關鍵指標——每位活躍客戶現金收入與 24 年第二季度相比增長了 18%，達到每位客戶 5,200 巴西雷亞爾，這既表明客戶貨幣化程度進一步加深，也表明我們活躍客戶群不斷擴大。

On slide 15, we show our strong deposits performance combined with the cost of funding reduction. The total deposits reached BRL37.2 billion, up 90% year over year. This growth is particularly net worthy given our ongoing efforts to reduce the cost of funding. It shows that we are successfully managing customer deposits while improving the efficiency of our funding base.

在投影片 15 上，我們展示了強勁的存款表現以及融資成本的降低。總存款達372億雷亞爾，年增90%。鑑於我們不斷努力降低融資成本，這種成長尤其值得。這顯示我們成功地管理了客戶存款，同時提高了資金基礎的效率。

The APY for total deposits decreased by almost 6% points in the last year, reaching 89% of the CDI. This performance is mainly due to a lower remuneration on checking accounts, slightly lower yields on certificate of deposits, and funding costs of optimization initiatives that we implemented in response to the current interest rate environment.

去年，總存款的年利率下降了近 6%，達到 CDI 的 89%。這一業績表現主要歸因於支票帳戶的報酬較低、存款證的收益率略低以及我們為應對當前利率環境而實施的優化舉措的融資成本。

When we include other funding sources, such as borrowing, certificate of deposits with related parties, and senior quotas of FIDCs, total funding reached BRL42.9 billion in the quarter, an increase of 15% year over year. This performance reflects both the increase in total deposits and our continuous effort to diversify our funding base, supporting a more balanced and efficient capital structure.

如果算上其他資金來源，如借款、關聯方存款證、金融機構存款保險公司的優先配額，本季總資金達到 429 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 15%。這項績效既反映了存款總額的成長，也反映了我們不斷努力實現資金基礎多元化，從而支持更均衡、高效的資本結構。

Finally, this quarter, we have successfully completed a BRL920 million issues of financial letters with a two-year maturity and no early amortization. The transaction was well received with a book to bill multiple times the transaction size.

最後，本季我們成功發行了價值 9.2 億巴西雷亞爾的財務信函，期限為兩年，無需提前攤提。該筆交易受到了熱烈歡迎，而帳面金額是交易金額的數倍。

The notes were priced at CDI plus 45 base points, or approximately 103.5% of the CDI. Proceeds will be used to support the growth of our acquiring and credit operations.

該票據的定價為 CDI 加 45 個基點，約為 CDI 的 103.5%。所得將用於支持我們的收購和信貸業務的成長。

It's important to remember that our deposits are primarily utilized for funding prepayments to merchants and our loan book. As of December, our loan to total funding ratio, which measures our total funding against our expanded credit portfolio, stood at 112%.

重要的是要記住，我們的存款主要用於向商家和我們的貸款帳簿提供預付款。截至 12 月，我們的貸款與總融資比率（衡量我們的總融資額與擴大的信貸組合的比率）為 112%。

On slide 16, we highlight the continued and sustainable expansion of our credit portfolio. In the second quarter, our total credit portfolio reached BRL3.9 billion, a 35% year-over-year increase primarily driven by origination of secured products, which now accounts for 87% of our book loan.

在第 16 張投影片上，我們強調了我們的信貸組合的持續和永續擴張。第二季度，我們的信貸總額達到 39 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 35%，這主要得益於擔保產品的發放，目前占我們帳面貸款的 87%。

Since second half '24, we have been gradually resuming credit underwriting for unsecure products with focus on working capital loans for merchants. This movement has been supported by ongoing improvements in risk assessment and collection process.

自 2024 年下半年起，我們逐步恢復無擔保產品的信用承保，重點是為商家提供營運資金貸款。這項措施得到了風險評估和收集流程不斷改進的支持。

This gradual expansion, although conservative, already shows its first sign in our loan book. Consequently, there has been a 38% increase in working capital loss quarter over quarter.

這種逐步擴張雖然保守，但已在我們的貸款帳簿上顯示出其第一個跡象。因此，營運資本損失較上季增加了 38%。

If we include financial operations linked to merchants' prepayments facilitated by our instant settlement feature on the acquiring site, our expanded credit portfolio surpasses BRL48 billion, up 11% in the last 12 months.

如果我們將透過收單網站上的即時結算功能促成的與商家預付款相關的金融業務也計算在內，那麼我們擴大的信貸組合將超過 480 億巴西雷亞爾，在過去 12 個月中增長了 11%。

Finally, looking at the bottom right of the slide, our NPL90 ratio reflects meaningful improvements in asset quality, decreasing from 3.2% to 2.4% in the period, a level two times below the market average.

最後，請看投影片的右下角，我們的 NPL90 比率反映了資產品質的顯著改善，在此期間從 3.2% 下降到 2.4%，比市場平均水平低兩倍。

Now I turn over Artur for the financial highlights of the second quarter of 2025. Artur, please.

現在我向 Artur 介紹 2025 年第二季的財務亮點。阿圖爾，請。

Thanks, Alexandre. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I'm pleased to present our consolidated financial results for the second quarter of 2025.

謝謝，亞歷山大。大家好，感謝大家今天加入我們。我很高興地公佈我們 2025 年第二季的綜合財務表現。

Turning to slide 18, total revenue and income in Q2 '25 reached BRL5.1 billion, marking an 11% year-over-year increase. This growth reflects the positive impact of repricing strategies initiated in Q4 2024, particularly across our acquiring and asset side products.

翻到第 18 張投影片，2025 年第二季的總營收達到 51 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 11%。這一成長反映了 2024 年第四季啟動的重新定價策略的正面影響，尤其是在我們的收購和資產方產品中。

These initiatives were designed to mitigate rising financial costs and ensure sustainable revenue in a more restrictive growth environment. Excluding interchange and network fees, total revenue net grew 18%.

這些措施旨在緩解不斷上升的財務成本，並確保在更嚴格的成長環境下實現永續收入。不包括交換費和網路費，總收入淨增加了18%。

Importantly, revenue growth outpaced TPV expansion this quarter, underscoring the effectiveness of our repricing efforts and improved unit economics. Looking at the charts on the right, payments revenue, net of interchange and network fees, totaled BRL2.6 billion, supported by successful strategy execution.

重要的是，本季營收成長超過了 TPV 擴張，凸顯了我們重新定價努力的有效性和單位經濟效益的提高。從右側的圖表可以看出，扣除交換費和網路費後的支付收入總計 26 億巴西雷亞爾，這得益於成功的策略執行。

Banking revenue reached approximately BRL700 million, a robust 61% year-over-year increase driven by higher engagement, larger deposit volumes, credit portfolio expansion, and increased fee generation from cards usage and account transactions.

銀行收入達到約 7 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 61%，這得益於參與度提高、存款量增加、信貸組合擴大以及卡使用和帳戶交易產生的費用增加。

Moving on to the next slide. Slide 19 presents our gross profit performance over the last 12 months. Strong banking results and repricing strategies helped to mitigate the negative impact of interest rates, which rose more than 400 basis points during the period.

繼續下一張投影片。幻燈片 19 展示了我們過去 12 個月的毛利表現。強勁的銀行業績和重新定價策略有助於減輕利率的負面影響，在此期間利率上漲了 400 多個基點。

Gross profit totaled BRL1.9 billion, growing 7% year over year, in line with our annual guidance despite macroeconomic challenges. This result was impacted by buybacks and dividend distributions, which introduced additional financial expenses. Excluding these effects, gross profit would have increased 7.7% on a yearly basis.

毛利總計 19 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 7%，儘管面臨宏觀經濟挑戰，但仍符合我們的年度預期。這一結果受到回購和股息分配的影響，這帶來了額外的財務費用。除去這些影響，毛利將年增7.7%。

On the right, we highlighted the exceptional performance of our banking segment, which is increasingly becoming a strategic pillar for the company's future. Banking gross profit grew 97% year over year, now accounting for over 26% of total gross profit. This growth was accompanied by a margin expansion from 60% to 74%, enforcing the strength of our platform and our ability to scale complementary products efficiently.

在右側，我們強調了銀行業務的卓越表現，該業務正日益成為公司未來的策略支柱。銀行毛利年增97%，佔總毛利的26%以上。這一成長伴隨著利潤率從 60% 擴大到 74% 的擴大，增強了我們平台的實力和有效擴展互補產品的能力。

Slide 20 provides a deeper look into our cost and expense evolution. Our continued financial discipline, key to balancing growth and profitability, was instrumental in mitigating pressure from rising financial costs.

第 20 張投影片更深入地介紹了我們的成本和費用演變。我們持續的財務紀律是平衡成長和獲利的關鍵，有助於緩解財務成本上升的壓力。

Transaction costs fell 1% compared to Q2 2024, driven by increased fixed product penetration. Financial costs rose 48%, primarily due to higher interest rates in the country. This includes BRL25 million in quarterly costs related to capital returning to shareholders. These effects were partially offset by funding initiatives aimed at diversifying sources and reducing interest rates.

由於固定產品滲透率的提高，交易成本與 2024 年第二季相比下降了 1%。財務成本上漲了48%，主要原因是該國利率上升。其中包括與向股東返還資本相關的2,500萬巴西雷亞爾季度成本。這些影響被旨在實現資金來源多樣化和降低利率的融資舉措部分抵消。

Total losses declined at 14% year over year, reflecting improved asset quality and stronger QIC and onboarding processes, which led to fewer chargebacks and lower ECL provisions.

總損失年減 14%，反映出資產品質的提高以及 QIC 和入職流程的加強，從而減少了退款並降低了 ECL 撥備。

Operating expenses increased at 6% year over year, in line with inflation. As a percentage of total revenue and income, we achieved 80 basis points of operating leverage compared to the same period of last year.

營業費用年增 6%，與通貨膨脹一致。作為總收入和收益的百分比，我們與去年同期相比實現了 80 個基點的營運槓桿。

Finally, tax efficiency remains a core pillar of our strategy. We continue advancing tax optimization initiatives that support profitability and long term value creation.

最後，稅收效率仍然是我們策略的核心支柱。我們持續推進支持獲利能力和長期價值創造的稅收優化措施。

Moving to a slide 21, this quarter was marked by resilient operational and financial performance. We achieved non-GAAP net income of BRL565 million, a 4% increase compared to Q2 2024. Diluted GAAP earnings per share reached BRL1.79, reflecting a 14.2% year-over-year increase.

移至第 21 張投影片，本季的特點是營運和財務表現強勁。我們實現的非公認會計準則淨收入為 5.65 億巴西雷亞爾，與 2024 年第二季相比成長 4%。稀釋後 GAAP 每股盈餘達到 1.79 巴西雷亞爾，年增 14.2%。

On the right, we highlight a 120 basis points improvement in our annual return on average equity, rising to 15.2% from 14% in Q2 2024. Despite maintaining a conservative capital structure, the company continues to deliver consistent returns to shareholders.

右側我們重點介紹了年度平均股本回報率提高 120 個基點，從 2024 年第二季的 14% 上升至 15.2%。儘管保持保守的資本結構，該公司仍繼續為股東帶來持續的回報。

Next, we will explore our capital allocation strategy. Slide 22 outlines our initiatives to strengthen capital structure and create shareholder value. We remained consistent in executing our buyback program throughout 2025, repurchasing over 50 million shares.

接下來，我們將探討我們的資本配置策略。第 22 張投影片概述了我們加強資本結構和創造股東價值的措施。我們在 2025 年全年持續執行回購計劃，回購了超過 5,000 萬股。

In Q2 2025, we completed the full amount of $200 million repurchase authorized under our second buyback program. Following this, our Board approved a third repurchase program, authorizing up to an additional $200 million in outstanding shares.

2025 年第二季度，我們完成了第二次回購計畫授權的全部 2 億美元回購金額。隨後，我們的董事會批准了第三個回購計劃，授權額外回購價值高達 2 億美元的流通股。

Additionally, following our first dividend announcement in May 2025, the Board approved a second cash dividend of $0.12 per common share payable on August 15, 2025, to shareholders of record as of July 16, 2025. This reflects our commitment to capital strength and shareholder value.

此外，繼 2025 年 5 月首次宣布股息後，董事會批准於 2025 年 8 月 15 日向截至 2025 年 7 月 16 日登記在冊的股東派發第二次現金股息，每股普通股 0.12 美元。這體現了我們對資本實力和股東價值的承諾。

Let's now review our guidance for the year. Our first semester results are well aligned with the company's outlook, despite a more challenging macroeconomic environment. Gross profit, excluding additional financial expenses from capital returns, grew 7.7% year over year, landing within our guidance range.

現在讓我們回顧一下今年的指導。儘管宏觀經濟環境更具挑戰性，但我們第一學期的業績與公司的前景一致。扣除資本回報中的額外財務費用後的毛利年增 7.7%，處於我們的指導範圍內。

Diluted earnings per share calculated using the December 2024 share count, excluding repurchased shares and long-term incentive plan grants, grew 14% year over year, demonstrating business resilience and disciplined execution.

使用 2024 年 12 月的股票數量計算的稀釋每股收益（不包括回購股票和長期激勵計劃授予）同比增長 14%，體現了業務的韌性和嚴格的執行力。

CapEx is tracking in line with expectations and currently performing at the bottom of the guidance range. Despite remaining cautious about elevated interest rates, we are maintaining our full year guidance. Note that this does not include additional costs from capital structure initiatives. Over the last 12 months, our capital return yield reached 18% as Ricardo mentioned earlier.

資本支出符合預期，目前表現處於指導範圍的底部。儘管我們對利率上升保持謹慎，但我們仍維持全年指引不變。請注意，這不包括資本結構計劃的額外成本。過去12個月，我們的資本回報率達到了18%，正如Ricardo之前提到的。

Now I will turn it back to Alexandre for the closing remarks.

現在我請亞歷山大致結束語。

Thank you, Artur. Before we wrap up, let's move to the next slide for a few closing thoughts.

謝謝你，阿圖爾。在我們結束之前，讓我們翻到下一張投影片，談談幾點結束語。

Overall, our second quarter results reflect the disciplined execution of our strategy, focused on diversifying revenue streams while preserving profitability in a challenging macroeconomic environment. I want to once again highlight the growing contribution of our banking business, which now accounts for 26% of total gross profit.

總體而言，我們的第二季業績反映了我們策略的嚴格執行，專注於實現收入來源多元化，同時在充滿挑戰的宏觀經濟環境中保持獲利能力。我想再次強調我們銀行業務的貢獻不斷成長，目前佔總毛利的26％。

Looking ahead, our priorities remain clear. We will continue to mitigate macro uncertainty through consistent execution and strong financial discipline. We are also committed to strengthening our capital structure moving forward with the initiatives we recently announced.

展望未來，我們的優先事項依然明確。我們將繼續透過持續的執行和強大的財務紀律來減輕宏觀不確定性。我們也致力於透過最近宣布的舉措來加強我們的資本結構。

And finally, I want to reiterate our long-term ambition to become the primary financial interface for our clients, capturing the significant growth opportunities we outlined through this presentation.

最後，我想重申我們的長期目標，即成為客戶的主要金融介面，抓住我們在本次演示中概述的重大成長機會。

With that, I now hand it back to the operator so we can begin the Q&A session. Thank you.

這樣，我現在將其交還給操作員，以便我們開始問答環節。謝謝。

Thank you for the presentation. We will now begin the Q&A session for investors and analysts. (Operator Instructions)

感謝您的演講。我們現在開始投資人和分析師的問答環節。（操作員指示）

Kaio Prato, UBS.

瑞銀的 Kaio Prato。

I have two on my side, please. The first one would be on TPV, please.

我這邊有兩個，謝謝。第一個是在 TPV 上。

If we look to your numbers, we see that overall TPV was flattish Q on Q, which probably implies, again, some sequential losses in market share. And looking to the MSMBs more specifically, there was a drop of 2% Q on Q.

如果我們查看您的數據，我們會發現整體 TPV 環比增長持平，這可能意味著市場份額再次出現連續損失。更具體地說明 MSMB，其環比下降了 2%。

I saw that you mentioned about lower macro and the effects of pricing. But still, it seems to be somewhat below the industry.

我看到您提到了較低的宏觀和定價的影響。但即便如此，它似乎仍略低於業界水準。

So having said that, if you can share a little bit more details around this performance -- I don't know if there is any specific sector that is more impacted within MSMBs or if it's more linked to, I don't know, competitive pressure. Any more detail here would be helpful. So first is your view about what's happening.

話雖如此，如果您可以分享一些有關這一表現的更多細節——我不知道是否有任何特定行業在 MSMB 中受到更大的影響，或者是否與競爭壓力更相關。這裡的任何更多細節都會有所幫助。首先是您對正在發生的事情的看法。

And going forward, what can we expect if there is anything in your strategy that you are going to change to adjust that and the overall expectations around TPV both on MSMBs and on consolidated level as well.

展望未來，如果您要改變策略以調整這一點以及對 MSMB 和合併層面的 TPV 的整體期望，我們可以期待什麼？

And finally, if I may, on capital, we are -- we've been seeing the company distributing more capital recently, as you mentioned in the presentation. So we saw some buybacks. And now, they recently announced that special dividends.

最後，如果可以的話，關於資本，正如您在演示中提到的那樣，我們看到公司最近分配了更多的資本。因此我們看到了一些回購。現在，他們最近宣布了特別股息。

But still, the company remains with a solid capital position close to 30% by the ratio. So my question is going forward, after this special dividend, how can we think about capital distribution, if there is any recurring level of payouts that we can work with? That's it.

但以該比例來看，該公司的資本狀況仍穩固，接近30%。所以我的問題是，在這次特別股利之後，我們如何考慮資本分配，是否有任何我們可以採用的經常性支出水準？就是這樣。

Good to hear you. Let me elaborate a little bit more about TPV and then give a little bit more broad overview about TPV in our view and what you're seeing inside the company.

很高興聽到你的聲音。讓我更詳細地介紹一下 TPV，然後從我們的視角對 TPV 進行更廣泛的概述，以及您在公司內部看到的情況。

First of all, we always say that we drive the company to improve profitability. TPV could be a consequence of that. The TPV definitely is not one of our main goals, and market share also is not our main goals. We are driving the company more and more focused on the client oriented approach, looking the client as a whole.

首先，我們總是說我們推動公司提高獲利能力。TPV 可能就是由此產生的。TPV肯定不是我們的主要目標之一，市佔率也不是我們的主要目標。我們正推動公司越來越注重以客戶為導向的方法，將客戶視為一個整體。

And part of that, if you look at the flow that we have, not only TPV in acquiring -- but if you look at the flow, our cash-in peaks grew 19% year over year. This is strong. The participation of this peaks cash-in in the whole flow of the company is growing quarter over quarter.

其中一部分，如果你看看我們的流量，不僅是收購中的 TPV - 而且如果你看看流量，我們的現金高峰同比增長了 19％。這很強。這一高峰現金流入在公司整體流量中的參與度正在逐季度增長。

So we are looking at the declines as a whole, not only the TPV from cards or for peaks that we have some in there, but also the cash-in from peaks that you get from this client that could help in in in deposits, could help in funding, and so on.

因此，我們正在從整體上觀察下降情況，不僅是信用卡的 TPV 或我們存在的一些峰值，還有從該客戶那裡獲得的峰值現金流入，這些現金流入可能有助於存款，可能有助於融資，等等。

Guidance that we gave to the market is gross profit. We think gross profit better captures the performance because it considers everything that I said before, the cash-in, the funding, and all this -- all the thing that I mentioned before.

我們給市場的指導是毛利。我們認為毛利能更好地反映業績，因為它考慮了我之前所說的一切，現金、資金以及所有這些——我之前提到的所有事情。

It is also important to say that in 2024, we had a very, very strong growth. So we are having a hard comp here compared Q2 '25 versus Q2 '24. We grew 34% in Q2 '24, so it's hard to -- it's a hard comp.

同樣重要的是，到 2024 年，我們將實現非常非常強勁的成長。因此，我們對 2025 年第二季和 2024 年第二季進行了嚴格的比較。我們在 2024 年第二季度成長了 34%，因此很難——這是一個很難的比較。

And in addition to that, we had two less working days and one more holiday in '25, which could help us in approximately 4 to 5 percentage points additional growth. So that's why TPV was in the level that you saw, growing 4% a year.

除此之外，2025 年我們的工作日減少了兩天，假期增加了一天，這可以幫助我們額外實現約 4 到 5 個百分點的增長。這就是為什麼TPV處於您所看到的水平，每年增長4％。

In terms of MSMB TPV, we see some clusters that we can get some actions to take TPV back. We've been doing repricing as well, just like the other players of the industry. So we are seeing that part of the -- it's a mix of many, many characters. There is no silver bullet here.

就 MSMB TPV 而言，我們看到一些集群，我們可以採取一些行動來收回 TPV。就像業內其他參與者一樣，我們也一直在重新定價。所以我們看到這一部分——它是許多許多角色的混合體。這裡沒有靈丹妙藥。

It's the hard comp, repricing, macroeconomic -- that doesn't help, definitely, and it also creates churn for part of the client. So that's why we see TPV as an important metric, but not the most important metric for us. We really look at the companies as a gross profit and then EPS that we look in the P&L more and more and they focus more and more.

硬性競爭、重新定價、宏觀經濟——這些肯定沒有幫助，而且還會導致部分客戶流失。這就是為什麼我們將 TPV 視為一個重要指標，但不是對我們來說最重要的指標。我們確實將公司視為毛利，然後是每股收益，我們越來越關注損益表，他們也越來越關注。

So just to finish here, if you look at -- the card TPVs is still relevant. But comparing to the whole flow of the company, it's less than 50%. So of course, we are looking at TPV as well, but the most important metric for us is gross profit.

所以就此結束吧，如果你看一下——卡 TPV 仍然是相關的。但相對於公司整體流量來說，還不到50%。當然，我們也在關注 TPV，但對我們來說最重要的指標是毛利。

And that's what we are focusing on at this point and try to get the best of the whole ecosystem. So I mean, there are many, many reasons that TPV was growing 4%, hard comps, macroeconomics, repricing and so on.

這就是我們目前關注的重點，並努力使整個生態系統發揮最佳作用。所以我的意思是，TPV 成長 4% 的原因有很多，包括硬性比較、宏觀經濟、重新定價等等。

And regarding the capital, definitely, it is in the agenda. The 29% ratio that you mentioned, it is in the agenda. We expect to have some news soon, but we are looking at that to improve capital to have a better, more balanced capital structure.

至於首都，這肯定是在議程上。您提到的29%的比例，已經在議程上了。我們期待很快得到一些消息，但我們希望透過這些消息來改善資本，從而擁有更好、更平衡的資本結構。

And of course, to get that, we are talking about share backs -- share buybacks, dividends, expectation of growing the credit. And remember that we are at -- returning BRL1.9 billion to the shareholders in the last 12 months. But even with that, I know we are close to 30% in this ratio. But definitely, that's something that it is in our agenda at this point.

當然，為了實現這一點，我們正在討論股票回購——股票回購、股利、信貸成長預期。請記住，我們在過去 12 個月內已向股東返還了 19 億巴西雷亞爾。但即使如此，我知道我們的比例也接近 30%。但毫無疑問，這是我們目前的議程之一。

Antonio Ruette, Bank of America.

美國銀行的安東尼奧·魯埃特 (Antonio Ruette)。

I have two on my side that are actually follow ups to Kaio's questions. So first on TPV, not sure if you could elaborate on peaks here if -- how much of peaks came on the large merchants and how much came on SMEs. Just trying to understand here your performance compared to the industry.

我這邊有兩個問題其實是 Kaio 問題的後續回答。首先關於 TPV，不確定您是否可以詳細說明這裡的高峰——有多少高峰來自大型商家，有多少高峰來自中小企業。只是想了解一下您與行業相比的表現。

And also, in terms of capital. If you were to distribute this capital today and remain only with the capital that you believe to be required to operate the business and the required access capital that you need, how much could you distribute in dividends today? I would say, how much is the excess cash that you see at the business today?

而且，就資本而言。如果您今天分配這筆資本，並且只保留您認為經營業務所需的資本和所需的准入資本，那麼您今天可以分配多少股息？我想問一下，您今天在企業中看到的多餘現金有多少？

Regarding the -- we are not disclosing the breakdown between peaks and cards in these different segments, but I'd say to you that definitely, the card's decreasing more in LMECH than in MSMBs, which is a good news.

關於——我們不會透露這些不同部分中峰值和卡片之間的細目，但我要告訴你，LMECH 中的卡片下降幅度肯定比 MSMB 中的卡片下降幅度更大，這是一個好消息。

The other thing I would say is important to say. When you look at the clients, the merchant clients that we have, in short term -- not in 12 months, but in 90 days and 30 days -- it is stable and growing a little bit month after month. So it shows us that we -- when you think about MSMB, we're talking about clients between BRL1 million to BRL3 million per month.

我想說的另一件事也很重要。當你查看客戶，我們擁有的商家客戶時，在短期內 - 不是 12 個月，而是 90 天和 30 天 - 它是穩定的，並且每個月都在增長一點。因此，它向我們表明——當您想到 MSMB 時，我們談論的是每月收入在 100 萬至 300 萬巴西雷亞爾之間的客戶。

So we have different size of clients in this cluster, MSMB. And we see that we are not seeing a higher churn. What might be happen to some of the clients is to moving part of the volumes away.

因此，我們在這個叢集 MSMB 中擁有不同規模的客戶端。我們發現客戶流失率並沒有上升。對於某些客戶端來說，可能會發生的情況是將部分磁碟區移走。

One of us -- what I mean here is that we have the opportunities to go back to these clients. They are still work with us, and then we can get part of the volume back. So that's the color that I can give on TPV.

我們中的一個人——我的意思是，我們有機會回到這些客戶身邊。他們仍在與我們合作，然後我們可以收回部分產量。這就是我可以在 TPV 上賦予的顏色。

So client is stable, and then we still have the opportunity to get part of the TPV back. And again, remember, we have 34% growth in Q2 '24. So we have a really hard comp, and we two less working days and one more holiday.

這樣客戶就穩定了，我們仍然有機會收回部分TPV。再次提醒，2024 年第二季我們的成長率為 34%。因此我們的薪水確實很嚴格，少了兩天工作日，多了一天假期。

Regarding the capital and the amount we can return to shareholders, I'll pass the word to Artur.

關於資本和我們可以返還給股東的金額，我會向阿圖爾傳達。

Good to talk to you, Antonio. In terms of capital -- excess of capital and also cash, as you mentioned cash, it's important to clarify that we don't have cash available to return to shareholders, but we have excess of capital.

很高興與您交談，安東尼奧。就資本而言——資本過剩和現金，正如您所提到的現金，需要澄清的是，我們沒有可供返還給股東的現金，但我們有資本過剩。

That means any amount that I will return to shareholder, I need to go to the market, take this funding from the third party, and then distribute. This process will impact our financial costs as we are already communicating in the gross profit slide and the guidance. The part of the financial expenses is related to dividends and buyback in 2025.

這意味著我要返還給股東的任何金額，我都需要去市場，從第三方獲得資金，然後分配。正如我們已經在毛利幻燈片和指導中傳達的那樣，這個過程將影響我們的財務成本。該部分財務費用與2025年的分紅及回購有關。

In terms of amount, to be comfort here, I can give you some color that we could distribute more BRL2.5 million and BRL3 billion after what we have already announced. And we are working hard always to balance growth, profitability -- that's important because financial cost increase on that process -- and return to shareholders.

就金額而言，為了讓大家安心，我可以告訴大家，在我們已經宣布的金額之後，我們還可以再分配 250 萬雷亞爾到 30 億雷亞爾。我們始終致力於平衡成長、獲利（這很重要，因為在此過程中財務成本會增加）和股東回報。

Yuri Fernandes, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的尤里費南德斯。

I have a question regarding your deposit mix. I think maybe this is related to the buybacks and the need of cash you mentioned.

我對您的存款組合有疑問。我認為這可能與您提到的回購和現金需求有關。

But interbank was growing a lot in this quarter, like 30%. And if you were able to improve your funding cost, I imagine that interbank deposits tend to be more costly than some of your other lines. So just trying to understand if this is a trend that we could continue to see. You continue the buybacks and the capital distribution and maybe you could have a little bit of more expensive funding.

但本季銀行間同業拆借成長較快，約 30%。如果你能夠改善你的融資成本，我想銀行間存款的成本往往會比其他一些業務更高。所以只是想了解這是否是我們可以繼續看到的趨勢。如果你繼續回購和資本分配，也許你會獲得稍微更昂貴的融資。

And I would like to understand if this could limit the improvements here. Because it was a good quarter for funding, and I don't know if we start to see a little bit of more expensive interbank deposits we could see, this reverting the trend.

我想了解這是否會限制這裡的改進。因為這是一個融資良好的季度，我不知道我們是否會開始看到銀行間存款成本略有上升，從而扭轉趨勢。

And then just a question on the banking gross profit. It was a pretty good quarter for you on the banking side of the operation. If you can comment a little bit more about low growth, what you see for deposits, just trying to understand how the bank can help you just to upset part of the weaker growth profit we are seeing on the payments.

然後我再問一下關於銀行毛利的問題。對於你們的銀行業務而言，這是一個相當不錯的季度。如果您可以對低成長、存款情況多發表一些評論，只是想了解銀行如何幫助您緩解我們在支付方面看到的利潤增長較弱的問題。

I'll start with the -- your question about the funding, and then I can complement.

我先回答一下關於資金的問題，然後我可以補充一下。

Regarding the trend, we don't see that trend changing. We don't see that because of more participation of interbank deposit in the mix, our total deposit POI would change. As you could see in our slide 15, it's going down from 90% to 89% -- 90% to 89% CDI. So we don't see that reverting in a structural way that could hurt the P&L of the company.

就趨勢而言，我們認為這種趨勢不會改變。我們認為，由於銀行間存款更參與其中，我們的總存款 POI 不會改變。正如您在幻燈片 15 中看到的，它從 90% 下降到 89%——90% 到 89% CDI。因此，我們認為這種結構性逆轉不會損害公司的損益。

We also try to balance to get the best cost for the company, comparing what you have in checking accounts, deposits, and interbank. And so going back to the question, I don't see that the trend changing. I guess Artur can give you more call about it, and -- yeah.

我們也嘗試透過比較您的支票帳戶、存款和銀行間帳戶來平衡公司的成本，以獲得最佳成本。回到這個問題，我認為趨勢不會改變。我想阿圖爾可以給你更多有關此事的信息，而且——是的。

Well, in terms of deposits and the mix that we have there, interbank is part of the funding products that we are using to fund the expanded portfolio that we have. And Dutra have already mentioned the cost that we have today does not change too much going forward because we have competitive costs in many different products that we are using.

嗯，就我們的存款和組合而言，銀行同業拆借是我們用來為擴大的投資組合提供資金的融資產品的一部分。Dutra 已經提到，我們目前的成本在未來不會有太大變化，因為我們使用的許多不同產品的成本都具有競爭力。

Regarding the banking gross profit, we see -- we have three pillars here in the company in our view. It's the banking, the payments, and the credit. We see banking and credit, the two main pillars that you see here.

關於銀行毛利，我們認為公司有三大支柱。它是銀行業務、支付業務和信用業務。我們看到銀行業務和信貸是您在這裡看到的兩大支柱。

We see a huge opportunity for banking. It's still working on -- if you could see our -- the growth in portfolio in our working capital this Q, credit portfolios is too small, but it grew a lot in this quarter. And we see an opportunity in this product as well.

我們看到銀行業面臨巨大的機會。它仍在努力 - 如果你能看到我們 - 本季營運資本的投資組合成長，信貸投資組合太小，但本季成長了很多。我們也看到了該產品的商機。

As you know, we have BRL130 billion in TPV per quarter in regards to scratching the surface in this product. And when you have some testing good return, some of the credit products you can accelerate. So we see some opportunities also in the working capital which will help the bank P&L.

如您所知，我們每季的 TPV 為 1300 億巴西雷亞爾，用於觸及該產品的表面。而當你測試了一些好的回報後，你就可以加速一些信貸產品。因此，我們在營運資金方面也看到了一些機會，這將有助於銀行的損益。

And the banking still today is 21% of the revenues and 26% of the gross profit. So we always try to say here, that's the power of the ecosystem. We are not only payments company anymore. That's the beauty of having this ecosystem, and we expect that bank will keep growing and gaining share from the total revenue and gross profit looking forward.

時至今日，銀行業務仍占到總收入的21%和毛利的26%。所以我們總是試著說，這就是生態系統的力量。我們不再只是一家支付公司。這就是這個生態系統的美妙之處，我們預計銀行將繼續成長，並從總收入和毛利中獲得更大的份額。

Pedro Leduc, Itau BBA.

佩德羅·勒杜克（Pedro Leduc），伊塔烏 BBA。

Two quick questions, please. The first one here, I'm going to take it a step back into the last few years when you started -- when you went successfully into larger merchants than you were in before. No, but this seems to be the first big pricing wave that you did since more present with this mid-merchants, no?

請問兩個簡單問題。首先，我想回顧一下過去幾年你剛開始創業的時候——當時你成功地進入了比以前更大的商家。不，但這似乎是你們自與中型商家合作以來第一次進行大幅度的定價波動，不是嗎？

Now that you've gone through it, we're discussing here -- you care less about TPV or client count, more about gross profits. But at the end, you will care about the clients', call it, NPS, no? And now that you've gone through this pricing cycle with the larger clients and you're observing their NPS, the reactions, do you have a diagnosis of what else you could add to either services or products that would help reduce churn or help NPS be high even though you increased prices?

現在您已經了解了所有內容，我們在這裡討論——您不太關心 TPV 或客戶數量，而更關心毛利。但最終，你會關心客戶的，稱之為 NPS，不是嗎？現在您已經與較大的客戶經歷了這個定價週期，並且您正在觀察他們的 NPS 和反應，您是否可以診斷出您還可以在服務或產品中添加什麼來幫助減少客戶流失或幫助 NPS 保持較高水平，即使您提高了價格？

That's the first question. And the second, a little bit less related but has to do with the income tax rate, remains in the low double digits. If you guys have given any thoughts or any alternatives to the proposed taxation changes for offshore funds that was discussed by the government a few months ago. That's it.

這是第一個問題。第二個因素雖然關係不那麼密切，但與所得稅率有關，仍維持在兩位數的低點。如果你們對政府幾個月前討論的離岸基金稅改提案有什麼想法或替代方案。就是這樣。

I'll let Artur start with the last one regarding the tax rate, and then I get back to the first one.

我會讓阿圖爾先談最後一個有關稅率的問題，然後我再回到第一個問題。

Okay. So in terms of tax reform, we are pretty close to the government and following all the changes that we -- that they are promoting. And so at this point, I don't have any information, any number to give you. And we are working hard to mitigate that impact or those impacts in the social contribution that is moving from 15, to -- sorry, 9 to 15, and also the changes to income tax abroad in the shares that we have from our FIDC in our legal entity abroad.

好的。因此，在稅收改革方面，我們與政府關係密切，並關注他們正在推動的所有變革。所以目前，我沒有任何資訊或數字可以提供給你。我們正在努力減輕這種影響，或者說，社會貢獻方面的影響，從 15% 變為 9%，還有我們在國外法人實體 FIDC 所持有的股份的海外所得稅變化。

So the good point is we have only 20% of the FIDC abroad. So the impact could be limited. If we have much more, the impact would be worst. But that's the idea. We are looking for alternatives to mitigate that impact. As soon as I have something more concrete to communicate, I will do that accordingly.

因此，好的一點是，我們的 FIDC 只有 20% 位於國外。因此影響可能是有限的。如果我們擁有的更多，影響將會更嚴重。但這就是想法。我們正在尋找替代方案來減輕這種影響。一旦我有更具體的資訊需要溝通，我就會這樣做。

Regarding the first one, Pedro, we've been increasing or repricing the -- our clients since October '24, so nine months now. The repricing was exclusively to offset, even partially, the increasing interest rates in the country.

關於第一個問題，佩德羅，自 2024 年 10 月以來，我們一直在增加或重新定價我們的客戶，所以到現在已經 9 個月了。重新定價完全是為了抵消（甚至部分抵消）該國不斷上升的利率。

As you know, we also have -- part of our clients, they have the full MDRs that we have in our website. And we did not increase for these clients. So in a scenario where the interest rates would go down, we will also take advantage because we didn't increase the price for the default MDRs and is still taking advantage temporarily from the clients that we increased the price that we will not decrease in the next following day.

如您所知，我們的部分客戶也擁有我們網站上的完整 MDR。而我們並沒有為這些客戶增加收入。因此，在利率下降的情況下，我們也將利用這一優勢，因為我們沒有提高預設 MDR 的價格，並且仍然暫時從客戶那裡獲得優勢，我們提高了價格，並且在接下來的一天不會降低。

So we've been falling, yes, the NPS with these clients. As I said before, the base, the active merchants base, in short term, when you look at 90 days or 30 days, it is growing up month after month. So it's not that we are losing the client as a whole. As I said before, we are looking for the clients in total, looking for the payments, deposits, the products that they use here.

是的，這些客戶的 NPS 一直在下降。正如我之前所說，基礎，活躍商家基礎，在短期內，當你看 90 天或 30 天時，它會逐月增長。所以，我們並沒有失去整個客戶。正如我之前所說，我們正在尋找客戶，尋找他們在這裡使用的付款、存款和產品。

If you go to slide 14, we see clients using more and more our products, our banking products, and get more engaged. So it's part of the back and forth that they need to make this pricing and then retest and so on.

如果您看第 14 張投影片，我們會看到客戶越來越多地使用我們的產品、我們的銀行產品，並且參與度更高。因此，他們需要反覆定價，然後重新測試等等。

So we don't see, let's say, deterioration in our relationship with the whole base of clients. But of course, when you have some repricing -- and again, MSNB, we have clients from $1 per month to BRL3 million per month. So BRL2 million per month is something -- some company that already have some more price sensitive.

因此，我們與全體客戶的關係並未惡化。但當然，當你有一些重新定價時 - 再次，MSNB，我們的客戶從每月 1 美元到每月 300 萬巴西雷亞爾不等。因此，每月 200 萬巴西雷亞爾是一筆不小的數目——一些公司已經對價格更加敏感。

But we've been following that very close. TPV, as you said, didn't grow that much, but the profitability is coming. Net income is coming. Gross profit is coming. EBT is coming.

但我們一直在密切關注這一點。正如您所說，TPV 的成長幅度並不大，但獲利能力正在顯現。淨收入來了。毛利來了。EBT 即將到來。

So going back to our question and wrapping up here, we don't see a structural problem in the company. We are looking at the client as a whole. The active base is growing, and we'll keep working with the pricing and try to preserve profitability in this scenario that -- where the market is not helping at all.

回到我們的問題並總結一下，我們認為公司不存在結構性問題。我們正在從整體上看待客戶。活躍用戶群正在不斷增長，我們將繼續努力定價，並嘗試在市場毫無幫助的情況下保持獲利能力。

Arnon Shirazi, Citi.

花旗銀行的 Arnon Shirazi。

My question is follow-ups from Antonio's question, and first one is related to financial expenses. As you mentioned, it was negatively impacted by buybacks and dividends. Could you share what would be expenses excluding this effect?

我的問題是安東尼奧問題的後續，第一個問題與財務費用有關。正如您所說，它受到了回購和股息的負面影響。您能否分享一下除去這種影響的費用是多少？

And also, my second question is also on the line of Antonio's own and its own potential ROE we after leveraging the balance sheet. Which could be the ROE level that is feasible for the company in the long term?

另外，我的第二個問題也是關於安東尼奧本身以及利用資產負債表之後的潛在 ROE。對於公司來說，長期可行的 ROE 水準是多少？

Regarding the first one, financial expenses, in the second quarter, we had BRL25 millions of impact coming from funding expenses related to buybacks and dividends. So our growth of 7% on a yearly basis would be 7.7%.

關於第一個，財務費用，在第二季度，我們受到了與回購和股利相關的融資費用的影響，金額為 2,500 萬巴西雷亞爾。因此，我們的年增長率為 7%，即 7.7%。

And regarding the second question, ROE, we are not guiding exactly the number that we are looking for in the future. But based on our analysis, there is no reason to be different than other companies in the country.

關於第二個問題，ROE，我們並沒有準確地指導我們未來所尋求的數字。但根據我們的分析，沒有理由與該國其他公司有所不同。

Super clear.

超級清晰。

No, if I may compliment here. Okay, thank you.

不，如果我可以在這裡稱讚的話。好的，謝謝。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

No, we are talking about this ratio, about 30%. We see some other players similar to ours, our peers, working in a lower, this ratio. And of course, that means that we can Increase ROE because of this. Once you give it back to our shareholders through dividends, buybacks, or increasing the credit portfolio, we will also decrease the equity.

不，我們說的是這個比例，大概30%。我們看到一些與我們類似的其他參與者，我們的同行，以較低的比例工作。當然，這意味著我們可以因此提高 ROE。一旦透過股利、回購或增加信貸組合將其返還給我們的股東，我們也會減少股權。

And then these ROE will be higher as a mathematical consequence because the denominator of the equation is going to be lower once we decide to accelerate giving back to shareholders and have a ratio opposed to what we see in our peers. So that's the --

然後，從數學角度來看，這些 ROE 將會更高，因為一旦我們決定加速回饋股東，並且擁有與同業相反的比率，等式的分母就會更低。這就是--

We have two items here. The first one is the level of [obese] today, and the second one is the margin from the banking products are good. As soon as we scale more, definitely, the ROE should be better.

我們這裡有兩件物品。第一個是現在的肥胖水平，第二個是銀行產品的利潤率很好。一旦我們擴大規模，ROE 肯定會更好。

Daniel Vaz, Safra.

丹尼爾·瓦茲，薩夫拉。

The gross profit from acquiring has been falling in nominal terms and losing relevance when compared to the banking business, right? So the banking business is growing almost 100% every year. And I wanted to pick your brain about the link between both business.

收購產生的毛利名義上一直在下降，與銀行業務相比也失去了相關性，對嗎？因此銀行業務每年幾乎成長100％。我想向您請教一下這兩項業務之間的連結。

You -- at some point of the presentation, you described banking as a complimentary offering, right? Somehow right now, it's hard to see this link beyond better funding or pre-payment, right? So the credit portfolio is essentially a consumer base right now, and deposit growth is now growing more in the off platform, right? So account balances has been flat for a while.

您—在演講的某個時候，您將銀行業務描述為一種免費服務，對嗎？不知何故，現在除了更好的資金或預付款之外，很難看出這種聯繫，對嗎？所以現在信貸組合本質上是一個消費者基礎，而存款成長現在更多是在平台外成長，對嗎？因此帳戶餘額暫時保持穩定。

So correct me if I'm wrong here, but you seem excited on the banking side and disconnected to the acquiring story right now. So I guess the question is, when should we see a more connected business, right? So maybe you start offering working capital lines, other value-added services, to the small business to bridge that gap between the both.

所以，如果我錯了，請糾正我，但你現在似乎對銀行業務很感興趣，並且與收購故事脫節。所以我想問題是，我們什麼時候才能看到更互聯的業務，對嗎？因此，也許您可以開始向小型企業提供營運資金額度和其他增值服務，以彌補兩者之間的差距。

When you think about the gross profit acquiring, remember, we had this 48% increase in financial expenses year over year. That definitely doesn't help. So when you compare it, it's a huge impact.

當您考慮毛利獲取時，請記住，我們的財務支出比去年同期成長了 48%。這肯定沒有幫助。因此，當你比較它時，它的影響是巨大的。

And as I said before, part of our base, we did not increase the prices for the clients that you have a default MDRs and default prepayment rates. So we have this huge headwind about the financial expenses.

正如我之前所說，作為我們基礎的一部分，我們並沒有提高那些有預設 MDR 和預設預付利率的客戶的價格。因此，我們在財務支出方面面臨巨大的阻力。

You're right when you say that today, the majority of the portfolio, it is based on consumer. But the credit card, part of this portfolio of credit cards, it is based on merchants already. In working capital, of course, it's 100% of merchants.

您說得對，今天，大部分的投資組合都是基於消費者。但是信用卡，作為信用卡組合的一部分，已經基於商家了。當然，在營運資金方面，它是 100% 的商家。

The working capital grew 38% quarter over quarter, although it's still small, but it is growing. We originated in July the same amount that we originated in almost the whole Q2. So that's definitely a product that we see some traction and we see some NPLs under control and we see some space to grow here.

營運資本較上季成長38%，雖然仍很小，但正在成長。我們 7 月的發放量與幾乎整個第二季的發放量相同。因此，這絕對是我們看到有一定吸引力的產品，我們看到一些不良貸款得到了控制，我們看到了一些成長空間。

We also see in the industry other players taking advantage of that. so it would be no different for us, although we may be a little bit late in the product when compared to the other player we are catching up. So we see opportunities to grow working capital definitely.

我們也看到業內其他參與者正在利用這一點。所以對我們來說也是一樣，儘管與我們正在追趕的其他參與者相比，我們的產品可能有點晚。因此，我們肯定看到了增加營運資金的機會。

We saw that in second quarter. We'll probably see that in Q3 as well. And then maybe by doing so, it's going to be clear -- more clear, the link between banking and payment that you mentioned before. But still today, it helps a lot in terms of funding. It helps a lot in terms of getting the collateral for us to offer, for instance, credit card for merchants. So -- and we are extremely confident about this working capital looking forward.

我們在第二季度看到了這一點。我們可能也會在第三季看到這種情況。然後也許透過這樣做，它將會變得更加清晰——更加清晰，您之前提到的銀行和支付之間的聯繫。但時至今日，它在資金方面仍然有很大幫助。它對我們獲得抵押品（例如商家的信用卡）有很大幫助。所以——我們對未來的營運資金非常有信心。

Thanks, very straightforward. And if I may follow up quickly, any guesses where penetration on your client base about the working capital product? Have you been conducting any sensibility and sensitivity on that?

謝謝，非常直率。如果我可以快速跟進的話，您能猜一下營運資金產品在您的客戶群中的滲透率是多少嗎？您是否對此進行過任何感性和敏感度研究？

I would say to you that our base is more taker of credit than a saver, so to say. So there's huge opportunities to grow there. You just want to make it step by step. Because consistent is more important than back and forth when you think about credit products.

我想告訴你們，我們的基礎更多的是信貸的接受者而不是儲蓄者，可以這麼說。因此，那裡有巨大的發展機會。你只是想一步一步地完成它。因為當您考慮信貸產品時，一致性比來回性更重要。

So it is still very small, the penetration. As I said before, the origination that we have in July, it was almost the whole origination we had in Q2. So definitely, it's a part that is growing.

所以滲透率還是很小。正如我之前所說，我們 7 月的起源幾乎是我們第二季的全部起源。所以毫無疑問，這是一個正在成長的部分。

I don't want to give you any guidance here because we are -- although we are growing very fast, it's still baby steps or very small, but definitely something that we grow in the future. And you see in the industry that we have this opportunity as well because other players are growing this product and have a credit portfolio bigger than ours.

我不想在這裡給你任何指導，因為我們——雖然我們發展得非常快，但這仍然是小步，或者說非常小，但絕對是我們未來會成長的東西。你會發現，在業界我們也擁有這樣的機會，因為其他參與者正在發展這種產品，並且擁有比我們更大的信貸組合。

Neha Agarwala, HSBC.

Neha Agarwala，匯豐銀行。

And apologies if I'm making you repeat anything. The slowdown in the MSMB TPV is quite material. So I just wanted to double check on that and see if maybe part of that is because some of your peers, as you mentioned, have been more active on the financing working capital loan side.

如果我讓您重複任何內容，我深表歉意。MSMB TPV 的放緩相當顯著。所以我只是想再確認一下，看看是否部分原因是因為正如您所提到的，您的一些同行在融資營運資金貸款方面更加活躍。

So do you see that as part of the reason why, with the reprice insurance, your reprice insurance was stronger than maybe what we otherwise expected? And how should we think about MSMB TPV growth in the coming quarters? Will you see a pickup was in one of this quarter which is reverse, or is it the level that we should expect for the remaining quarter of the year?

那麼，您是否認為這是為什麼有了重新定價保險，您的重新定價保險比我們預期的更強的原因之一？我們該如何看待未來幾季 MSMB TPV 的成長？您認為本季的某個季度會出現逆向成長嗎？或者這是今年剩餘季度我們應該預期的水平？

And the second question is on the unsecured loan portfolio. I mean, thank you for the clarification about the origination in July. That's quite promising. But still, it's as you mentioned. It's a very small portfolio.

第二個問題是關於無擔保貸款組合的。我的意思是，感謝您對七月份起源的澄清。這很有希望。但仍然正如你所提到的。這是一個非常小的投資組合。

So can you give us a bit more details about how you're pricing the product? What collaterals are you taking? Are you just using the receivables or are you taking any other collaterals? How have you designed the product in this acceleration that has been happening in the last month? +++

那麼，您能否向我們提供一些有關產品定價的更多細節？您要採取什麼抵押品？您只使用應收帳款還是採用任何其他抵押品？在過去一個月的加速發展中，您是如何設計產品的？+++

We start from the last one. We -- in terms of working capital products, very similar to what you see in the market. I guess the advantage that we have here is that we have The base that is very, very engaged within our app. They use our app very often, as we can see in the slide 14.

我們從最後一個開始。就營運資金產品而言，我們與您在市場上看到的非常相似。我想我們在這裡的優勢在於我們擁有非常熱衷於我們應用程式的用戶群。他們經常使用我們的應用程序，正如我們在幻燈片 14 中看到的那樣。

They use -- all the time, they are using our app. And remember, we only have one app for the merchants, for the consumer, for everybody. So it's the same app, and we take advantage of this digital distribution in order to get more our product to the market.

他們一直在使用我們的應用程式。請記住，我們只為商家、為消費者、為所有人提供一款應用程式。所以它是同一個應用程序，我們利用這種數位分發來將更多產品推向市場。

In terms of collaterals, we use the future receivables. So part of the principal, we use the future receivables. And then we're going to follow the activity of the merchant throughout the month. So it's very similar to what other players do in the market in terms of the product.

在抵押品方面，我們使用未來應收帳款。因此，我們使用未來應收款作為本金的一部分。然後我們將追蹤商家整個月的活動。因此，就產品而言，它與市場上其他參與者的做法非常相似。

But in terms of distribution, definitely, we have a huge advantage, I would say, because of the -- again, the way that our clients use our app and the frequency they use our app. So that's about the working capital.

但就分銷而言，我想說，我們無疑擁有巨大的優勢，因為——再次強調，我們的客戶使用我們應用程式的方式和頻率。這就是有關營運資金的事情。

The other questions about churn and TPV looking forward, we are not guiding the TPV looking forward. I don't say you that -- in Q2 '24, we had a 34% growth year every year. In Q3 '24, we had a 37% growth year every year. So definitely, it's going to be again a hard comp.

關於客戶流失和 TPV 展望的其他問題，我們並沒有指導 TPV 展望未來。我不是這麼說的——2024 年第二季度，我們每年都達到 34% 的成長率。2024 年第三季度，我們的年成長率達到 37%。所以毫無疑問，這又將是一場艱難的比賽。

And we are looking for the profitability of the company, profitability of the client. The number of active clients, as I said, when you look at short term, 90 days and 30 days, we do not disclose the exact number, but it's very stable and growing in the last month.

我們追求的是公司的獲利能力、客戶的獲利能力。正如我所說，就短期、90 天和 30 天而言，活躍客戶的數量我們不會透露確切的數字，但上個月非常穩定且有所增長。

It was very stable, now growing in the last month. So we see that they have the opportunities to take it back, part of the TPV, as part of this negotiation and so on with the client. So we are monitoring that very close. TPV again is not the main metric. We are looking for gross profit and EBT.

它非常穩定，上個月還在成長。因此，我們看到他們有機會收回部分 TPV，作為與客戶談判的一部分。所以我們正密切監視此事。TPV 再次不再是主要指標。我們正在尋找毛利和 EBT。

In a situation, the macroeconomic environment, as you said in the second slide of the presentation, it may be hard. But to be honest, definitely doesn't change the trajectory of the company. Doesn't change the trajectory of the company.

在某種情況下，宏觀經濟環境，正如您在簡報的第二張投影片中所說的那樣，這可能會很困難。但說實話，這絕對不會改變公司的發展軌跡。不會改變公司的發展軌跡。

The trajectory of the company is growing, generating shareholder value, growing EPS, growing net income and EBT in absolute terms. We did that with the higher effective tax rate. So it's -- we are managing the company in this, I would say, complicated macroeconomic scenario, and we are delivering the results.

公司的發展軌跡是不斷成長的，創造了股東價值，每股盈餘不斷成長，淨收入和息稅前利潤（EBT）也不斷成長。我們透過更高的有效稅率實現了這一目標。所以，我想說，我們正在複雜的宏觀經濟情勢下管理公司，並且正在取得成果。

But TPV definitely is not the main metric. And going forward, I will not give you a guidance because we don't have it here right now. But I would say to you that we are looking for the profitability of the company and the profitability for each client. And going back to the request, working capital is doing well up to this point.

但TPV絕對不是主要指標。展望未來，我不會再給你指導，因為我們現在還沒有。但我想告訴你，我們追求的是公司的獲利能力和每個客戶的獲利能力。回到請求，到目前為止，營運資金表現良好。

So if I can just follow up on the working capital, your focus is more on the SMB segment for the working capital loans, or is it lower income and long term merchants in that segment? And also --

因此，如果我可以跟進營運資金問題，您的重點是將營運資金貸款更多地放在中小企業部分，還是放在該部分中的低收入和長期商家？而且--

I guess -- I'm not hearing Neha, but I got the beginning of the question about the profile of the merchant. Yes, we are focused on the small and medium business, not in the long tail and not in the nanoclient. We are focusing more on the small and medium businesses, SMBs, not the M of the SMBs. We are focused more in the small and medium businesses.

我想——我沒有聽到 Neha 的聲音，但是我聽到了有關商人概況的問題的開頭。是的，我們專注於中小型企業，而不是長尾業務或奈米客戶端。我們更關注中小型企業、SMB，而不是 SMB 的 M。我們更加關注中小型企業。

[Bruno Bonfi], Santander.

[布魯諾邦菲]，桑坦德銀行。

Actually, this is Henrique Navarro speaking. My question is on competition. Can you guys give you some color on how do you see competition recently? We heard that maybe Mercado Pago, some of your competitors, could be gaining market share. I mean, do you see competition more rational and pricing, et cetera? I mean, any color you could share, I would appreciate.

實際上，我是恩里克·納瓦羅 (Henrique Navarro)。我的問題是關於競爭的。你們能否介紹一下最近如何看待競爭？我們聽說你們的競爭對手 Mercado Pago 可能正在獲得市場份額。我的意思是，您是否認為競爭和定價等更理性？我的意思是，如果您能分享任何顏色，我將不勝感激。

I'd rather not comment about any specific competitor because, of course, each one has its own strategy. We also have ours.

我不想對任何特定的競爭對手發表評論，因為當然每個競爭對手都有自己的策略。我們也有我們的。

We -- I would say to you that everyone is looking for profitability at the end of the day. When you look at the companies that are red, released the results, even the acquirors that are part of the incumbent banks, you see that everyone is looking for the profitability.

我們——我想告訴你們，每個人最終都追求獲利。當你看到那些虧損的公司、公佈的業績、甚至是現有銀行的收購者時，你會發現每個人都在尋求獲利能力。

Remember in Brazil, we are with 15% basic interest rate of the economy. So everyone is looking for profitability, being more defensive; and we are not different. That's why we said that it was a quarter that we focus on profitability, and we did deliver.

請記住，在巴西，我們的經濟基本利率為 15%。因此，每個人都在尋求獲利，採取更強的防禦措施；我們也不例外。這就是為什麼我們說這是一個專注於盈利的季度，而我們確實做到了。

But I don't see any rational movements. And it's -- sometimes, you see some promotions here and there, but that's a movement that back and forth and appears and disappears. But I don't see it structurally someone being irrational or taking an advantage to gain market share.

但我沒有看到任何理性的舉動。有時，你會看到這裡或那裡有一些促銷活動，但這是一種來回、出現又消失的運動。但從結構上來說，我並不認為有人會不理性或利用優勢來搶佔市場份額。

Because again, when you have 15% base interest of the economy, you cannot be that aggressive and losing money, or you do that for a while and then you make mess and get back to the rationality. But again, I don't see that happening at this point.

因為，當你擁有 15% 的經濟基本利率時，你不能那麼激進，不能虧損，或者你這樣做一段時間，然後你就把事情搞砸了，然後又回到理性。但我現在還不認為這種情況會發生。

So competition is rational. Everyone is looking for profitability, and we are doing the same here. And looking at the client as a whole, I want to highlight that we are looking at the client as a whole.

所以競爭是理性的。每個人都在追求獲利，我們也在做同樣的事情。從整體上看客戶，我想強調的是，我們正在從整體上看客戶。

We had BRL130 billion in TPV and BRL91 billion in peaks cash-in, 19% increase every year. That is important. That is important. And we've built the bank with the most difficult part, which is to create deposits, right? That's the most difficult part of the bank.

我們的TPV為1300億雷亞爾，尖峰現金流入為910億雷亞爾，每年增長19%。這很重要。這很重要。我們建立銀行最困難的部分就是創造存款，對嗎？這是銀行最困難的部分。

To give credit is a consequence of us having the right products, the right models, the right credit risk, and so on. But to get the deposits, which is hard, that's something that we've been building in the last year. So I'd like just to take advantage of our question to highlight that.

提供信貸是我們擁有正確的產品、正確的模式、正確的信貸風險等的結果。但要獲得存款是件很難的事，這是我們去年一直在努力的事情。因此，我想利用我們的問題來強調這一點。

Renato Meloni, Autonomous Research.

雷納托·梅洛尼，自主研究。

So first, I just wanted to go back to the funding strategy here and deposits, right? So we saw checking accounts going up 2% quarter on quarter. This is normally a positive in terms of seasonality for checking account, so I wanted to understand something -- if something happened here.

所以首先，我只想回到這裡的融資策略和存款，對嗎？因此，我們看到支票帳戶數量較上季增加了 2%。就支票帳戶的季節性而言，這通常是一件好事，所以我想了解一些事情——如果這裡發生了什麼事情。

And then picking up on your earlier comments saying that you might rely more on interbank deposits and understanding how competitive rates there, but just given here by the differential of rates, I would just be surprised that that doesn't need the cost of funding and if we should expect that to pick up in the upcoming quarters.

然後，接著您先前的評論，說您可能會更多地依賴銀行間存款，並了解那裡的競爭利率，但僅從利率差異來看，我很驚訝這不需要融資成本，我們是否應該預期這種情況會在未來幾個季度回升。

Then just if you allow me for a second question, just looking here at gross margins over TPV to achieve the very healthy level helped by the repricing. Well, I wanted to know -- I was just wondering what do you expect for the second half of the year?

那麼，如果您允許我問第二個問題，我們來看看 TPV 的毛利率，在重新定價的幫助下，達到了非常健康的水平。嗯，我想知道——我只是想知道您對今年下半年有什麼期望？

I mean, there's more competition, worse -- potential worst economic scenarios we're describing. But at the same time, you might still have the -- can be carry ons and benefits from the repricing. So trying to understand if that's stable for the second half, maybe up or down.

我的意思是，競爭更加激烈，更糟——我們正在描述潛在的最糟糕的經濟狀況。但同時，您可能仍可以從重新定價中獲得收益和利益。因此，試圖了解下半年是否穩定，可能是上升或下降。

I'll start with the last one. We have been doing the repricing since October 2024, and It was exclusively to offset the increasing interest rate of the Brazilian economy. So that today's 15%. So it was to offset this increase.

我先從最後一個開始。我們從 2024 年 10 月開始重新定價，這完全是為了抵銷巴西經濟不斷上升的利率。這就是今天的 15%。因此這是為了抵消這一增長。

If we don't have increased interest rates looking forward, I guess structurally, we will not have increase in our price for the merchants. Of course, there is always some customization in some of the price for smaller merchants here and there, but it -- I mean, it's more negotiation, more clusters.

如果我們不提高利率，我想從結構上來說，我們不會提高商家的價格。當然，對於規模較小的商家來說，價格總是會有一些定制，但我的意思是，這需要更多的談判，更多的集群。

Structurally, we don't see that happening if we don't have increased interest rates, and it seems that interest rates should go down in 2026. So if that scenario doesn't change, there will be no big waves of repricing in the following months or the following quarters.

從結構上看，如果我們不提高利率，這種情況就不會發生，而且看起來利率應該會在 2026 年下降。因此，如果這種情況不改變，那麼在接下來的幾個月或幾季中就不會出現大規模的重新定價浪潮。

Going back to deposits, I'll pass the word to Artur.

回到存款問題，我會把這個消息傳達給阿圖爾。

And so regarding our funding strategy, I think the main point here is we have all the company and the management team focus on increased checking accounts, all the deposits -- not only checking accounts, but all the deposits. But on top of that, we are working in our treasury to diversify in a different perspective, like many counterparties, many different products.

關於我們的融資策略，我認為這裡的重點是，我們整個公司和管理團隊都專注於增加支票帳戶、所有存款——不僅是支票帳戶，而是所有存款。但除此之外，我們正在努力從不同的角度實現財務多元化，例如許多交易對手、許多不同的產品。

On that way, we could have a competitive cost on those players. We also can work in a more longer duration. So we have a broad view on how to operate our funding instructor and always boosting costs down.

這樣，我們就能以有競爭力的價格買下這些球員。我們還可以工作更長時間。因此，我們對如何運作我們的融資指導員並始終降低成本有著廣泛的了解。

Regarding to this checking account, we prefer to combine checking account and certificate of deposits because everything that we see in deposits are in line of our expectation, even considering the (inaudible) that also affects our clients and their financial activity.

關於這個支票帳戶，我們更願意將支票帳戶和存款證明結合起來，因為我們看到的存款一切都符合我們的預期，即使考慮到（聽不清楚）也會影響我們的客戶及其金融活動。

But it is in line with what we see, checking accounts growing [2], certificate of the deposits growing [6]. And you need to mix -- combine those two things to understand the activity in the engagement of our clients in the base.

但這與我們所看到的情況一致，支票帳戶正在成長[2]，存款證明正在成長[6]。您需要將這兩件事結合起來，才能了解我們的客戶在基地的參與活動。

And I guess the most important, Renato, is to manage the APY which went down quarter over quarter from 90% to 89%. So that's part of the designs to get the best deals that you have in the market, being checking account, certificate of deposit, and interbank -- manage this cost of money. At the end of the day, that's what matters.

我認為最重要的是，雷納托，要管理好 APY，它逐季下降，從 90% 下降到 89%。因此，這是設計的一部分，目的是獲得市場上最好的交易，包括支票帳戶、存款證明和銀行間交易——管理這些資金成本。歸根究底，這才是最重要的。

Marcelo Mizrahi, Bradesco BBI.

馬塞洛·米茲拉希 (Marcelo Mizrahi)，布拉德斯科 BBI。

So my question is regarding the strategy of the company looking forward, so what the company are planning to do in this environment with soft economy.

所以我的問題是關於公司未來的策略，那麼在經濟疲軟的環境下公司計畫要做什麼。

And so -- and with this, so I understand that the strategy is to try to bring back some clients, but how to do that? So do you guys are planning to use the marketing to bring these clients? Do you guys are planning to offer credit to them? So how do you guys plan to bring back these volumes in the next quarters?

所以——有了這個，我明白我們的策略是試圖帶回一些客戶，但該怎麼做呢？那麼你們打算利用行銷來吸引這些客戶嗎？你們打算提供他們信貸嗎？那麼你們計劃如何在下一季恢復這些銷售量？

There are many tools that you can use here. Once you have the relationship with the clients, there are many tools that you can do with these clients. We can get promotions. We can get specific deals for specific payment methods.

這裡有許多工具可供您使用。一旦與客戶建立了關係，您就可以使用許多工具來與這些客戶合作。我們可以獲得晉升。我們可以針對特定的付款方式獲得特定的優惠。

We have Salesforce in the streets. So there are many ways to get these clients back. Definitely, I don't think that credit would be a tool to get clients back because we try to get the clients -- because of the whole package of the company, including banking. And payments and credits are consequence of the activity that we see the client here.

我們的街上都有 Salesforce。因此，有很多方法可以挽回這些客戶。當然，我不認為信貸是讓客戶回心轉意的工具，因為我們試圖透過公司的整個服務（包括銀行業務）來贏得客戶。付款和貸記是我們在這裡看到客戶活動的結果。

So we will not make irrational movements. Of course, if you have a client that has a decent volume with us, we can offer credit. But there are many, many tools that you can use to get these clients back.

所以我們不會做出不理智的舉動。當然，如果您的客戶與我們的合作量很大，我們可以提供賒銷。但是您可以使用許多工具來贏回這些客戶。

Looking forward. the strategy of the company, as we've been seeing in slide 19, it's to grow banking more and more. I said before, we did the most difficult part of building this balance sheet of the bank, which is to build the deposits franchise. That's the most difficult part.

展望未來，正如我們在第 19 張幻燈片中看到的那樣，公司的策略是不斷擴大銀行業務。我之前說過，我們完成了建立銀行資產負債表最困難的部分，即建立存款特許經營權。這是最困難的部分。

To give credit, in the asset side of the balance sheet, it is something that if you do it right, you can keep growing in a very consistent way. But the most difficult part is to get the deposits from franchise, and we've been building that in the last years.

值得稱讚的是，在資產負債表的資產方面，如果你做得正確，你就可以保持非常穩定地成長。但最困難的部分是從特許經營中獲得存款，我們在過去幾年裡一直在努力實現這一目標。

And banking is gaining share. It's 21% of the revenues, 26% of the gross profit. That would be no different looking forward.

銀行業正在獲得更大的份額。它佔收入的21%，毛利的26%。展望未來，這也沒什麼不同。

And again, we look at the client as a whole, and we look at the whole volume of the company. BRL130 billion from cards and fixed QR codes, and BR:91 billion from peaks cash in. So we need to look at the whole flow -- cash flow that you have from the clients here and take advantage of that in different ways.

再次，我們將客戶視為一個整體，並且我們看待整個公司的規模。其中，1,300 億巴西雷亞爾來自卡片和固定二維碼，910 億巴西雷亞爾來自高峰現金收入。因此，我們需要查看整個流程——來自客戶的現金流，並以不同的方式利用它。

Thank you. That's all the questions that we have for today. I will pass the line back to PagSeguro Digital's team for their concluding remarks. Please, go ahead.

謝謝。這就是我們今天要問的所有問題。我將把麥克風轉回 PagSeguro Digital 團隊，請他們作最後發言。請繼續。

Well, thank you, everyone, for the time. Thank you for participation and for the questions. See you soon. Thank you.

好吧，謝謝大家抽出時間。感謝您的參與與提問。再見。謝謝。

This does conclude PagSeguro Digital's conference call. We thank you for participation and wish you a very good evening.

PagSeguro Digital 的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝您的參與並祝您度過一個愉快的夜晚。