Pacific Biosciences of California Inc (PACB) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the PacBio fourth quarter of 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note today's event is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 PacBio 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。 （操作員指示）請注意，今天的活動正在被記錄。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Todd Friedman, senior director of finance and Investor Relations.

現在，我想將會議交給財務和投資者關係高級總監 Todd Friedman。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Good afternoon and welcome to PacBio fourth quarter of 2024 earnings conference call.

下午好，歡迎參加 PacBio 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。

Earlier today, we issued a press release outlining the financial results we'll be discussing on today's call, a copy of which is available on the investors section of our website at www.Ab.com or as furnished on Form AK available on the Securities and Exchange Commission website at www.sec.gov.

今天早些時候，我們發布了一份新聞稿，概述了我們將在今天的電話會議上討論的財務結果，該新聞稿的副本可在我們網站 www.Ab.com 的投資者部分獲取，或以美國證券交易委員會網站 www.sec.gov 上的 AK 表格形式獲取。

A copy of our earnings presentation is also available on the investors section of our website.

我們的收益報告副本也可在我們網站的投資者部分查閱。

With me today are Christian Henry, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Michelle Farmer, Chief Accounting Officer.

今天與我在一起的有總裁兼執行長克里斯蒂安亨利 (Christian Henry)；以及首席會計官米歇爾·法默（Michelle Farmer）。

On today's call, we will make forward-looking statements, including, among others, statements regarding predictions, estimates, expectations, guidance, and the amount of the preliminary estimated non-cash impairment charges.

在今天的電話會議上，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，包括但不限於有關預測、估計、預期、指導以及初步估計的非現金減損費用金額的陳述。

You should not place undue reliance on forward-looking statements because they are subject to assumptions, risks, and uncertainties that could cause their actual results to differ materially from those projected or discussed.

您不應過度依賴前瞻性陳述，因為它們受假設、風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致其實際結果與預測或討論的結果有重大差異。

Please review our SEC filings, including our most recent forms, 10-Q and 10-K, and our press release, to better understand the risks and uncertainties that could cause the results to differ.

請查看我們的 SEC 文件，包括我們最新的表格 10-Q 和 10-K 以及我們的新聞稿，以更好地了解可能導致結果不同的風險和不確定性。

We disclaim any obligation to update or revise these forward-looking statements, except as required by law.

除非法律要求，我們不承擔更新或修改這些前瞻性聲明的任何義務。

We also present certain financial information on a non-gap basis, which is not prepared under a comprehensive set of accounting rules and should only be used to supplement an understanding of the company's operating results as reported under USAP.

我們還以非缺口方式提供某些財務信息，這些信息並非根據全面的會計規則編制，僅應用於補充了解根據 USAP 報告的公司經營成果。

Reconciliations between historical US GAAP and non-gap results are presented in our earnings release, which is available on the investor section of our website.

我們的收益報告中列出了歷史美國 GAAP 結果與非差距結果之間的對賬，您可以在我們網站的投資者部分查閱。

For future periods, we are unable to reconcile non-gap gross margin and non-gap operating expenses without unreasonable effort due to the uncertainty regarding, among other matters, certain acquisition-related items that may arise during the year.

對於未來期間，由於包括本年度內可能出現的某些收購相關項目在內的不確定性，我們無法在不付出合理努力的情況下調節非差距毛利率和非差距營運費用。

A recording of today's call will be available shortly after the live call in the investor section of our website.

今天的電話會議錄音將在現場電話會議結束後不久在我們網站的投資者部分提供。

Those electing to use the replay are cautioned that forward-looking statements may differ or change materially after the completion of the live call.

選擇使用重播的用戶請注意，在現場通話結束後，前瞻性陳述可能會有所不同或發生重大變化。

I'll now hand the call over to Christian.

我現在將電話交給克里斯蒂安。

Thank you for joining us today.

感謝您今天加入我們。

I'll begin by reviewing our fourth quarter and full year 2024 performance, highlighting key commercial achievements and providing insights into our outlook.

我將首先回顧我們第四季度和 2024 年全年的業績，重點介紹關鍵的商業成就並提供對我們前景的見解。

Then our Chief Accounting Officer, Michelle Farmer, will walk through the financials in more depth, and then I'll close with our guidance and outlook for the year.

然後，我們的首席會計官米歇爾·法默 (Michelle Farmer) 將更深入地介紹財務狀況，然後我將以我們對今年的指導和展望作為結束。

In the 4th quarter, we reported $39.2 million in revenue driven by the shipment of 23 Revvio systems.

第四季度，我們報告的收入為 3,920 萬美元，這得益於 23 台 Revvio 系統的出貨。

Additionally, we successfully commenced shipment of our Vega benchtar platform, delivering 7 units ahead of schedule.

此外，我們成功開始運送Vega benchtar 平台，提前交付了 7 台。

For the full year, revenue totaled $154 million reflecting 97 Rev shipments.

全年總收入為 1.54 億美元，反映了 97 Rev 的出貨量。

Our customer base continues to expand significantly, with the Revo platform installed at nearly 200 customers at December 31. Notably, in 2024, approximately 45% of all Revvio shipments went to new PACBIO instrument customers, demonstrating strong momentum in attracting users transitioning from other sequencing technologies.

我們的客戶群繼續大幅擴大，截至 12 月 31 日，已有近 200 家客戶安裝了 Revo 平台。

Meanwhile, there remains a meaningful upgrade opportunity with approximately 125 active SQL 2 and 2 users in the field, many of whom could transition to Revvio or Vega in the coming years.

同時，該領域仍有大約 125 名活躍的 SQL 2 和 2 用戶，這為升級提供了有意義的機會，其中許多用戶可能會在未來幾年內過渡到 Revvio 或 Vega。

The adoption of PACIO hi fi and long-read sequencing continues to accelerate.

PACIO 高保真度和長讀取排序的採用持續加速。

Total growth in genomic data output accelerated on our platforms, with an 81% increase in 2024, up from 68% growth in 2023, highlighting broader utilization of our technology.

我們平台上基因組數據產出的整體成長加速，2024 年的成長率為 81%，高於 2023 年的 68%，凸顯了我們技術的更廣泛應用。

Since 2020, total sequencing output has expanded more than twelvefold, demonstrating a remarkable increase in hi fi sequencing activity.

自 2020 年以來，總定序產量擴大了 12 倍多，顯示高保真定序活動顯著增加。

Correspondingly, consumable revenue grew 11% year-over-year in 2024 to $70.4 million, representing a 23% compound annual growth rate since 2020.

相應地，2024 年消耗品收入年增 11% 至 7,040 萬美元，自 2020 年以來複合年增長率為 23%。

Looking ahead to 2025, we anticipate that customers will continue to navigate an uncertain funding environment, much like in 2024.

展望 2025 年，我們預期客戶將繼續面臨不確定的融資環境，就像 2024 年一樣。

Macroeconomic pressures are expected to persist, extending sales cycles, particularly for higher CapEx life science instrumentation like Revvio.

預計宏觀經濟壓力將持續存在，從而延長銷售週期，特別是對於 Revvio 等資本支出較高的生命科學儀器而言。

Additionally, the recent announcements regarding NIH funding involving a cap on the Institute's direct funding rates have increased the uncertainty in the academic environment, particularly in the United States.

此外，最近發布的有關美國國立衛生研究院資助的公告規定了該研究所直接資助率的上限，這也增加了學術環境的不確定性，尤其是在美國。

Considering these factors, we expect 2025 revenue to range between $155 million and $170 million representing 6% year over year growth at the midpoint and roughly in line with external growth estimates for the next generation sequencing market in 2025.

考慮到這些因素，我們預計 2025 年的營收將在 1.55 億美元至 1.7 億美元之間，中間值年增 6%，與 2025 年下一代定序市場的外部成長預測大致一致。

While product launches and macro factors have caused our revenue growth to fluctuate over the past few years, it's worth noting that our revenue guidance at the midpoint still reflects a 16% compound annual growth rate since 2020 and significantly outpaces the overall NGS market growth, which, again, demonstrates the growing adoption of our technology.

雖然產品發布和宏觀因素導致我們的收入成長在過去幾年中出現波動，但值得注意的是，我們在中點的收入預期仍反映了自 2020 年以來 16% 的複合年增長率，並且大大超過了整體 NGS 市場的成長，這再次證明了我們的技術的普及度不斷提高。

I'll discuss our full 2025 financial guidance in more detail later in this call.

我將在稍後的電話會議中更詳細地討論我們 2025 年的完整財務指導。

Over the medium term and as the macroeconomic environment improves, we believe that we can achieve sustained double-digit revenue growth as long read sequencing continues to expand into new genomic applications.

從中期來看，隨著宏觀經濟環境的改善，我們相信，隨著長讀定序不斷擴展到新的基因組應用，我們可以實現持續的兩位數收入成長。

Our key priorities for driving growth include expanding the adoption of hi fi sequencing by accelerating the uptake of the Vega benchtop platform and enhancing the value and usability of Revvio with Spark chemistry.

我們推動成長的關鍵重點包括透過加速 Vega 桌上型平台的採用來擴大高保真定序的採用，以及透過 Spark 化學提高 Revvio 的價值和可用性。

Leveraging recent innovations to substantially increase sequencing throughput while reducing costs, these advances have the potential to bring long-read sequencing closer to price parity with short-read technologies.

利用最近的創新來大幅提高測序吞吐量並降低成本，這些進步有可能使長讀測序與短讀技術的價格更加接近。

Delivering end to end solutions focusing on clinical applications and where high-fi technology provides unique advantages, like connects for RNA sequencing and Pure Target, a targeted approach for sequencing difficult to sequence genes.

提供專注於臨床應用的端到端解決方案，其中高保真技術提供獨特的優勢，例如用於 RNA 測序的連接和 Pure Target，一種用於對難以測序的基因進行測序的有針對性的方法。

Notably, in 2024, application and extraction kit revenue grew 56% year over year.

值得注意的是，2024年應用和提取套件營收年增56%。

Our strategy also includes providing turnkey bioinformatic solutions so our customers can go from sample to answer without running complex data analysis pipelines.

我們的策略還包括提供交鑰匙生物資訊解決方案，以便我們的客戶無需運行複雜的數據分析流程即可從樣本獲得答案。

Lastly, as a result of the continued and recent macroeconomic uncertainty, as well as the recent NIH announcements, we now anticipate turning cash flow positive, exiting 2027.

最後，由於近期宏觀經濟的持續不確定性，以及 NIH 最近的公告，我們預計到 2027 年現金流將轉為正值。

We remain focused on lowering our cash burden and believe our approximately $390 million in cash and investments at the end of 2024 will bridge us to becoming cash flow positive based on our current assumptions.

我們仍致力於降低現金負擔，並相信到 2024 年底，我們的約 3.9 億美元現金和投資將使我們根據目前的假設實現現金流為正。

Notably, after our note exchange in the fourth quarter, this time frame still positions cash flow, a PA by the turn cash flow positive, well before our first debt maturity in August of 2029.

值得注意的是，在我們第四季度進行票據交換之後，這一時間範圍仍然處於現金流狀態，PA 的現金流轉為正值，遠早於我們 2029 年 8 月的第一筆債務到期日。

While we face challenges in 2024, it was a pivotal year in strengthening our business and advancing our product portfolio.

雖然我們在 2024 年面臨挑戰，但這是我們加強業務和推進產品組合的關鍵一年。

We successfully launched two significant innovations, the Vega Benchop platform and Spark Chemistry for Revvie.

我們成功推出了兩項重大創新，分別是Vega Benchop 平台和 Revvie 的 Spark Chemistry。

With the launch of Vega, Paire offers a suite of long-read sequencing systems tailored to different customer needs, a first in the company's history.

隨著 Vega 的推出，Paire 提供了一套針對不同客戶需求量身訂製的長讀定序系統，這是該公司歷史上的首創。

Mega features a smaller footprint, lower capital cost, and reduced throughput compared to Revvio, making it an accessible and versatile solution for a broad range of customers.

與 Revvio 相比，Mega 佔用空間更小、資本成本更低、吞吐量更低，因此成為適合廣大客戶的可訪問且多功能的解決方案。

Some of these customers include smaller academic labs focused on a range of applications.

這些客戶中包括專注於一系列應用的小型學術實驗室。

That require less throughput, including RNA sequencing and smaller genomes, core laboratories investigating transcriptomics and RNA biology, and larger clinically-focused labs utilizing hi fi sequencing for targeted panels.

這需要較低的通量，包括 RNA 定序和較小的基因組、研究轉錄組學和 RNA 生物學的核心實驗室，以及利用高保真定序進行目標面板研究的大型臨床實驗室。

Early customer feedback has been strongly positive.

早期客戶回饋非常正面。

Berry Genomics, one of our first Vega customers, reported that the platform delivers results identical to previous PAC biosystems while offering notable improvements in high fire deals, quality values, reduced run times, greater data processing efficiency, and less hands-on time.

我們的第一批 Vega 客戶之一 Berry Genomics 報告稱，該平台提供的結果與先前的 PAC 生物系統相同，同時在高火交易、品質值、縮短運行時間、提高數據處理效率和減少實際操作時間方面有顯著改善。

As a result, Barry Genomics plans to purchase 50 Vega units over the coming years to support its thalassemia and fragile tapas, underscoring the platform's value in clinical applications.

因此，Barry Genomics 計劃在未來幾年購買 50 台 Vega 裝置，以支持其地中海貧血和脆弱性 tapas，強調該平台在臨床應用中的價值。

Beyond clinical markets, Vega's versatility extends into biodiversity and environmental genomics.

除了臨床市場之外，Vega 的多功能性也延伸到生物多樣性和環境基因組學。

At the recent Plant and Animal Genomics conference, one researcher highlighted how Vega offers a lower entry point cost, increased portability, and a throughput so well suited for sequencing biodiversity in remote locations.

在最近的植物和動物基因組學會議上，一位研究人員強調了 Vega 如何提供更低的切入點成本、更高的便攜性和更高的吞吐量，非常適合對偏遠地區的生物多樣性進行測序。

And it also noted how it will facilitate best practices in sequencing unique or difficult to access fauna in the field.

它還指出瞭如何促進對野外獨特或難以獲取的動物進行測序的最佳實踐。

Another customer from the Johns Hopkins University in Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory shared how he looks forward to using the platform for many projects spanning the entire tree of life, from identifying new risk factors in human disease to diversifying and enriching the food supply with new crop species to understanding the microbial world beneath our very own feet.

來自約翰霍普金斯大學冷泉港實驗室的另一位客戶表示，他期待使用該平台開展涵蓋整個生命之樹的眾多項目，從識別人類疾病的新風險因素，到透過新作物品種實現糧食供應多樣化和豐富化，再到了解我們腳下的微生物世界。

Our funnel of sales opportunities continues to grow for the Vega platform, especially with potential new customers, as nearly 3/4 of the customers in our sales funnel have never bought a pack bio sequencer before.

我們的 Vega 平台銷售機會管道持續成長，尤其是潛在的新客戶，因為我們銷售管道中近 3/4 的客戶之前從未購買過生物定序儀。

This demonstrates the potential reach of the platform.

這證明了該平台的潛在影響力。

While Vega delivers versatility, the Revvio system is our most powerful and scalable platform.

雖然 Vega 具有多功能性，但 Revvio 系統是我們最強大且可擴展的平台。

In the fourth quarter, we enhanced the platform even further as we started shipping our Spark chemistry.

在第四季度，隨著我們開始運送 Spark 化學品，我們進一步增強了這個平台。

With Spark, the Revvio system could sequence up to 2,500 complete phase hi fi human genomes a year at a cost below $500 per genome.

借助 Spark，Revvio 系統每年可對多達 2,500 個完整階段的高保真人類基因組進行定序，每個基因組的成本低於 500 美元。

While significantly lowering DNA input requirements for whole genome sequencing to just 500 nanograms, this represents a 75% reduction.

同時將全基因組定序的 DNA 輸入要求顯著降低至僅 500 奈克，這意味著減少了 75%。

This helped drive new customer adoption in Q4, like the J.

這有助於推動第四季度新客戶的採用，例如 J。

Craig Venter Institute, which plans to use Revvio to sequence thousands of full diploid phase genomes over the next several years to find missing heritability resulting from years of sniff studies and short read sequencing fragments as part of the Institute's overall goal to advance genetic testing for women's health and genetically diverse populations.

克雷格文特爾研究所計劃在未來幾年內使用 Revvio 對數千個完整的二倍體相基因組進行測序，以發現多年嗅探研究和短讀測序片段所導致的缺失遺傳性，這是該研究所推進女性健康和遺傳多樣化人群基因檢測的總體目標的一部分。

Last month, at the JPMorgan Healthcare Conference, we shared a little bit more about our technology roadmap, which is focused on improving our on-market platforms and developing future platforms to expand margins and increase throughput.

上個月，在摩根大通醫療保健會議上，我們分享了更多有關我們的技術路線圖的信息，重點是改進我們的市場平台並開發未來平台以擴大利潤率和提高吞吐量。

These programs include developing higher density smart cells, which reduce the cost and increase throughput.

這些項目包括開發更高密度的智慧單元，以降低成本並提高產量。

We expect our next generation of smart cells to yield multiple times the output of today's 25M regio smart cells.

我們預計下一代智慧電池的產量將是當今 25M 區域智慧電池的數倍。

Integrating new smart cell formats that makes automating our technology even easier for customers, migrating to more advanced semiconductor inputs, such as the 300 millimeter wafer instead of 200 millimeter, and this can drive the cost of the smart cell down, enabling us to lower our costs to customers and expand our gross margins.

整合新的智慧型單元格式使我們的技術自動化對客戶來說更容易，遷移到更先進的半導體輸入，例如 300 毫米晶圓而不是 200 毫米晶圓，這可以降低智慧單元的成本，使我們能夠降低客戶成本並提高我們的毛利率。

Innovating on our smart cell and re-agent technologies to allow customers to sequence in a smart cell more than once, utilizing faster chemistry, which are expected to enable faster run times and more throughput.

對我們的智慧單元和試劑技術進行創新，使客戶能夠利用更快的化學反應在智慧單元中進行多次測序，從而有望實現更快的運行時間和更高的吞吐量。

And, finally, leveraging our computational biology team and collaborations to offer more informatics capabilities across the end to end solutions to broaden customers' access to advanced bioinformatics pipelines.

最後，利用我們的計算生物學團隊和合作，在端到端解決方案中提供更多的資訊學功能，以擴大客戶對先進生物資訊管道的存取。

We've been thrilled with how Vega and Revvio have changed the paradigm of highly accurate long-read sequencing, and we're inspired by the development pathway to scale this technology even further.

我們很高興看到Vega 和 Revvio 如何改變高精度長讀定序的範式，並且我們受到進一步擴展這項技術的發展路徑的啟發。

Over the coming years, we look forward to unveiling these technologies to the research community, which is already accelerating its pace of discovery with high fi.

在未來的幾年裡，我們期待向研究界揭曉這些技術，研究界已經以高保真度加快其發現步伐。

In fact, PA Biotechnology was cited in over 1,000 publications and preprints in 2024.

事實上，PA Biotechnology 在 2024 年被超過 1,000 份出版物和預印本引用。

In particular, we are encouraged by recent publications that substantiate Hifi's ability to further our understanding of genetic and rare diseases, like Radford University Medical Center's study analyzing 100 challenging patient cases where short-read sequencing failed to identify a genetic cause.

特別是，我們對最近的出版物感到鼓舞，這些出版物證實了 Hifi 能夠進一步幫助我們了解遺傳和罕見疾病，例如拉德福德大學醫學中心的研究分析了 100 個棘手的患者病例，其中短讀測序未能確定遺傳原因。

In this study, researchers used Revvio and detected 93% of pathogenic variants, including complex structural variants and DNA methylation abnormality.

在這項研究中，研究人員使用 Revvio 檢測了 93% 的致病變異，包括複雜的結構變異和 DNA 甲基化異常。

The key takeaway here is not just high fi's ability to improve salt rates, but its potential to replace multiple testing modalities.

這裡的關鍵點不僅是高保真度能夠提高鹽分含量，還有潛力取代多種測試模式。

As a result, RATO is expanding its sequencing effort to 5,000 additional samples, further demonstrating the clinical impact of high fi sequencing in rare disease diagnostics.

因此，RATO 將其定序工作擴大到另外 5,000 個樣本，進一步證明高保真定序在罕見疾病診斷中的臨床影響。

A unique aspect of PAC bio hi fi sequencing is its multiomic capability.

PAC bio hi fi 定序的一個獨特之處在於其多組學能力。

That is, it interrogates RNA and epigenetics in addition to DNA.

也就是說，除了 DNA 之外，它還研究 RNA 和表觀遺傳學。

This multiomic approach was used in a recent study to diagnose a 9 month old patient with an undiagnosed rare genetic condition.

最近的一項研究採用了這種多組學方法，對一名患有未確診的罕見遺傳疾病的 9 個月大患者進行了診斷。

Hi fi sequencing uncovered a balanced translocation between chromosomes X and 13, disrupting four key genes through distinct mechanisms, findings that were missed by short re sequencing.

高保真定序揭示了 X 號染色體和 13 號染色體之間的平衡易位，透過不同的機制破壞了四個關鍵基因，而短程重測序則遺漏了這些發現。

We believe these studies highlight how PACIO's advanced sequencing technology enables groundbreaking genetic discoveries, providing new hope for rare disease patients worldwide.

我們相信這些研究凸顯了 PACIO 先進的定序技術如何實現突破性的基因發現，為全球罕見疾病患者帶來新的希望。

In 2024, we began to see larger-scale genomic testing labs, hospitals, and medical centers adopt high fi, with several implementing our peer target library prep kit to develop and improve carrier screening and other genetic tests.

2024 年，我們開始看到更大規模的基因組檢測實驗室、醫院和醫療中心採用高保真度，其中一些將實施我們的對等目標文庫製備試劑盒，以開發和改進攜帶者篩檢和其他基因測試。

We've previously disclosed labs like Myriad and Quest in the US, which are developing tests on the Revvio system.

我們之前曾揭露過美國的 Myriad 和 Quest 等實驗室正在對 Revvio 系統進行測試。

In Europe, Bentia uses high fi for routine testing for certain sensory disorders.

在歐洲，本蒂亞使用高精度保真技術對某些感覺障礙進行常規檢測。

As previously mentioned, Radford University Medical Center has committed to sequencing 5,000 high-fi genomes in a clinical setting focused on rare disease.

如前所述，拉德福大學醫學中心致力於在針對罕見疾病的臨床環境中對 5,000 個高保真基因組進行定序。

With the SQL 2, Berry Genomics is in the final stages of obtaining NMPA approval for its thalassemia carrier screening test in China.

借助SQL 2，貝瑞基因正在爭取中國國家藥品監督管理局對其地中海貧血攜帶者篩檢測試的批准，目前已進入最後階段。

This is an important test that the prevalence of carriers of this disease represents over 10% of the population in parts of the country.

這是一個重要的測試，該疾病的攜帶者在全國部分地區的盛行率超過10％。

With Vega, Berry plans to expand its carrier screening test to other indications.

借助 Vega，Berry 計劃將其帶因者篩檢測試擴展到其他適應症。

2024 was a pivotal year in our clinical path, with nearly 15% of our revenues coming from LDT labs or children's hospitals, and we had even higher clinical exposure when factoring translational work at research institutes around the world.

2024 年是我們臨床道路上的關鍵一年，我們近 15% 的收入來自 LDT 實驗室或兒童醫院，如果考慮到世界各地研究機構的轉化工作，我們的臨床曝光率甚至更高。

Looking back on 2024, we also took decisive actions to improve efficiency, reduce costs, and lower cash burn, which we believe will position us to continue to improve our financial profile on delivering our commercial and R&D initiatives.

回顧 2024 年，我們也採取了果斷行動來提高效率、降低成本和減少現金消耗，我們相信這將使我們能夠繼續改善財務狀況，以實現商業和研發計劃。

We reduced annualized non-gap operating expenses by more than $75 million aligning spending with our strategic priorities.

我們將年度非缺口營運費用減少了 7500 多萬美元，以使支出與我們的策略重點保持一致。

As a result, we lowered adjusted cash burn each quarter in 2024.

因此，我們在 2024 年每季都降低了調整後的現金消耗。

We also made progress in taking costs out of our per unit instrument and consumable manufacturing with Revvio system and consumable COGS 16 and 22% lower, respectively, than where we started the year.

我們也透過 Revvio 系統降低了單位儀器和消耗品製造成本，消耗品 COGS 分別比年初降低了 16% 和 22%。

And we see a pathway to further reduce per unit COGS in 2025.

我們看到了在 2025 年進一步降低單位成本的途徑。

We successfully executed on a convertible note exchange, reducing our debt by $259 million and extending the maturity of our 2028 notes by 18 months to August 2029, strengthening our financial flexibility.

我們成功完成了可轉換票據交換，減少了 2.59 億美元的債務，並將 2028 年票據的到期日延長 18 個月至 2029 年 8 月，從而增強了我們的財務靈活性。

Finally, we're pleased to announce that Dave Ruggiero has joined as global head of sales and service.

最後，我們很高興地宣布 Dave Ruggiero 已加入並擔任全球銷售和服務主管。

David brings deep experience in sales leadership across technology and life sciences, and his expertise will be instrumental as we expand our global reach and scale our sequencing solutions.

David 在科技和生命科學領域的銷售領導方面擁有豐富的經驗，他的專業知識將在我們擴大全球影響力和擴展定序解決方案的過程中發揮重要作用。

We're also delighted to share that Chris Smith has joined our board of directors.

我們也很高興地宣布克里斯史密斯已加入我們的董事會。

As CEO of Neogenomics, Chris brings extensive expertise in the diagnostics and laboratory testing markets, and we look forward to his insights as we advance our clinical strategy.

作為 Neogenomics 的首席執行官，Chris 在診斷和實驗室測試市場擁有豐富的專業知識，我們期待他在我們推進臨床策略的過程中提供見解。

We thank Devi in the line for his service on our board as he steps down and wish him the best in his future endeavors.

我們感謝 Devi 在卸任之際為我們的董事會做出的貢獻，並祝福他在未來的事業中一切順利。

We are also continuing our search for a new Chief Financial Officer.

我們還在繼續尋找新的財務長。

We're focused on identifying a leader who will help drive our next phase of growth and champion operational efficiency throughout the organization.

我們專注於尋找一位能夠幫助推動我們下一階段成長並倡導整個組織營運效率的領導者。

Now I'll pass the call on to Michelle Farmer to discuss our financials.

現在我將把電話轉給米歇爾法默 (Michelle Farmer) 討論我們的財務狀況。

Michelle.

米歇爾。

Thank you, Christian.

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安。

I will be discussing non-gap results, which include non-cash stock-based compensation expense.

我將討論非差距結果，其中包括非現金股票薪酬費用。

I encourage you to review the reconciliation of GAAP to non-gap financial measures in our earnings press release.

我鼓勵您查看我們收益新聞稿中 GAAP 與非差距財務指標的對帳。

As discussed, we reported $39.2 million in product, service, and other revenue in the fourth quarter of 2024, which represented a decrease of 33% from $58.4 million in the fourth quarter of 2023.

如上所述，我們報告 2024 年第四季的產品、服務和其他收入為 3,920 萬美元，較 2023 年第四季的 5,840 萬美元下降 33%。

Instrument revenue in the fourth quarter was $15.3 million a 56% decrease from $35.1 million in the fourth quarter of 2023, primarily driven by lower revvio system shipments.

第四季的儀器收入為 1,530 萬美元，較 2023 年第四季的 3,510 萬美元下降 56%，主要原因是 revvio 系統出貨量下降。

We ended the quarter with 270 cumulative revvio shipments.

本季結束時，revvio 的累積出貨量為 270 台。

Turning to consumables, revenue of $18.8 million in the fourth quarter is roughly flat to $18.9 million in the fourth quarter of last year, with annualized revveo pulled through per system at approximately $240,000.

談到消耗品，第四季的營收為 1,880 萬美元，與去年第四季的 1,890 萬美元基本上持平，每個系統的年化收入約為 24 萬美元。

Finally, service and other revenue was $5.1 million in the fourth quarter compared to $4.4 million in the fourth quarter of 2023, driven by an increase in service contract revenue related to RevIO.

最後，第四季的服務和其他收入為 510 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季為 440 萬美元，這得益於與 RevIO 相關的服務合約收入的增加。

From a regional perspective, America's revenue of $20.2 million decreased by 41% compared to the fourth quarter of 2023, as the region is most affected by academic and NIH funding uncertainty.

從地區來看，美國的收入為 2,020 萬美元，與 2023 年第四季相比下降了 41%，因為該地區受學術和 NIH 資金不確定性的影響最大。

For Asia Pacific, revenue of approximately $8.9 million decreased 33% over the prior year, with sequential growth in consumables offset by lower revenue placements.

亞太地區營收約 890 萬美元，較前一年下降 33%，消耗品環比成長被收入配置下降所抵銷。

Similar to the US, several countries in the region also face government funding headwinds with respect to capital expenditures.

與美國類似，該地區的幾個國家在資本支出方面也面臨政府資金阻力。

Finally, INEA revenue of $10.1 million decreased 9% over the prior year period.

最後，INEA 的營收為 1,010 萬美元，較去年同期下降了 9%。

The region saw record consumables revenue in the fourth quarter, with growing RevIO utilization as key projects like Estonia Biobank, Bradfood, and Dubai's population sequencing programs continued to sequence at scale.

隨著愛沙尼亞生物庫、Bradfood和杜拜人口定序計畫等重點項目繼續大規模定序，該地區第四季的消耗品收入創下了歷史新高，RevIO 的利用率不斷增長。

Moving down the P&L fourth quarter of 2024, non-gap gross profit of $12.3 million represented a non-gap gross margin of 31% compared to a non-gap gross profit of $11.1 million or 19% in the fourth quarter of last year.

2024 年第四季的損益表顯示，非缺口毛利為 1,230 萬美元，非缺口毛利率為 31%，而去年第四季的非缺口毛利為 1,110 萬美元，即 19%。

Non-gap gross margin increased year over year, due in part to charges for scrap inventory in the fourth quarter of 2023.

非缺口毛利率年增，部分原因是 2023 年第四季的廢料庫存費用。

Compared to the 3rd quarter of 2024, gross margins declined by approximately 120 basis points, primarily due to scrap inventory in the quarter related to a temporary decline in smart cell manufacturing yield and lower ASPs on Revvio due to certain strategic deals in the quarter, partially offset by per unit costs decreases in Revo instruments and consumables.

與 2024 年第三季相比，毛利率下降了約 120 個基點，主要原因是本季智慧電池製造產量暫時下降導致的廢品庫存，以及由於本季度某些戰略交易導致 Revvio 的平均銷售價格下降，部分被 Revo 儀器和消耗品的單位成本下降所抵消。

Non-gap operating expenses were $68.6 million in the fourth quarter of 2024 compared to $88.4 million in the fourth quarter of 2023.

2024 年第四季的非缺口營運費用為 6,860 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季為 8,840 萬美元。

The decrease primarily reflects the reduction in R&D and SGNA related to our restructuring restructuring initiated in the 2nd quarter of 2024.

下降主要反映了與我們 2024 年第二季啟動的重組相關的研發和 SGNA 的減少。

Regarding headcount, we ended the quarter with 575 employees, which was flat to Q32,024 and 28% lower than the 796 employees at the end of the fourth quarter of 2023.

關於員工人數，本季末我們共有 575 名員工，與 2023 年第四季末的 796 名員工持平，下降了 28%。

Operating expenses in the fourth quarter included non-cash share-based compensation of $14.8 million compared to $15.4 million in the fourth quarter of last year.

第四季營業費用包括非現金股權激勵費用 1,480 萬美元，去年同期為 1,540 萬美元。

Non-gap net loss of $55.3 million representing $0.20 per share in the fourth quarter of 2024 compared to a non-gap net loss of $72.5 million representing $0.27 per share in the fourth quarter of 2023.

2024 年第四季的非缺口淨虧損為 5,530 萬美元，即每股 0.20 美元，而 2023 年第四季的非缺口淨虧損為 7,250 萬美元，即每股 0.27 美元。

We ended the fourth quarter with $389.9 million in unrestricted cash and investments compared at $471.1 million at the end of the third quarter of 2024.

截至第四季末，我們的無限現金和投資為 3.899 億美元，而 2024 年第三季末為 4.711 億美元。

Cash outflow in the quarter included approximately $54 million in debt repayment and associated fees related to the convertible note exchange with SoftBank.

本季的現金流出包括約 5,400 萬美元的債務償還以及與軟銀可轉換票據交換相關的費用。

During the quarter, we conducted an interim goodwill and intangible asset impairment test following a sustained decline in our stock price and market capitalization.

在本季度，由於股價和市值持續下跌，我們進行了中期商譽和無形資產減損測試。

Based on the preliminary results of this analysis, we recorded non-cash impairment charges totaling $90 million which includes approximately $55 million related to goodwill and approximately $35 million associated with an in-process research and development asset.

根據該分析的初步結果，我們記錄了總計 9,000 萬美元的非現金減損費用，其中包括與商譽相關的約 5,500 萬美元和與在研發資產相關的約 3,500 萬美元。

The impairment was driven by macroeconomic headwinds and a revised outlook on future cash flows and is excluded from our previously discussed non-gap results.

此減損是由宏觀經濟逆風和未來現金流前景修正所致，且被排除在我們先前討論的非缺口結果之外。

It is important to note that these impairment charges are non-cash accounting adjustments and do not impact our liquidity, operations, or ability to execute on our long-term strategy.

值得注意的是，這些減損費用是非現金會計調整，不會影響我們的流動性、營運或執行長期策略的能力。

I'll now return the call to Christian to discuss guidance and provide the closing remarks.

現在我將回電給克里斯蒂安，討論指導意見並作結束語。

As discussed earlier, we expect full year 2025 revenue to between $155 million and $170 million.

如前所述，我們預計 2025 年全年營收在 1.55 億至 1.7 億美元之間。

At the midpoint, this represents a growth rate of approximately 6% compared to 2024.

中間值表示與 2024 年相比成長率約為 6%。

At the midpoint of our guidance range, we expect instrument revenue to grow modestly, with growth in Vegas shipments offsetting a year over year decline in revvo system shipments, with annual lives pulled through per revvio system in the low to mid 200,000 range.

在我們的指導範圍的中點，我們預計儀器收入將適度增長，Vegas 出貨量的增長將抵消 revvo 系統出貨量的同比下降，每個 revvio 系統的年使用壽命將在 200,000 以下到 200,000 左右。

As a reminder, our guidance anticipates that customers will continue to navigate an uncertain funding landscape, much like in 2024, and the macroeconomic environment is consistent with what we've experienced over the past few quarters.

提醒一下，我們的指導預計客戶將繼續面臨不確定的融資環境，就像 2024 年一樣，宏觀經濟環境與我們過去幾季經歷的一致。

When looking at guidance from a regional perspective, The change in administration has added further uncertainty to the funding environment in the Americas.

從區域角度來看，政府的變動為美洲的融資環境增加了進一步的不確定性。

In the near term, based on our initial conversations with customers, recently announced federal funding freezes, particularly with NAH intramural spending, have added significant uncertainty in the broader academic research community.

短期內，根據我們與客戶的初步對話，最近宣布的聯邦資金凍結，特別是 NAH 內部支出，為更廣泛的學術研究界帶來了巨大的不確定性。

Our guidance considers this uncertainty, especially in the near term.

我們的指導考慮到了這種不確定性，特別是在短期內。

On a more positive note, accelerating activity in the clinical market is anticipated to offset some of those potential headwinds.

從積極的一面來看，臨床市場活動的加速預計將抵消一些潛在的阻力。

For Asia Pacific, while we anticipate growth in the region in 2025, the funding dynamics in several countries continue to affect capital purchasing timelines for the RevO platform.

對於亞太地區，雖然我們預計 2025 年該地區將實現成長，但幾個國家的融資動態仍將影響 RevO 平台的資本購買時間表。

Additionally, our guidance does not consider the impact of tariffs or other activity that would impact our ability to export products to the region.

此外，我們的指導沒有考慮關稅或其他影響我們向該地區出口產品的能力的活動的影響。

We expect EMEA to be the fastest growing region in 2025 as population sequencing programs scale, whole genome sequencing in the clinical setting grows, and we expand our customer base with Vega.

隨著人口定序計畫規模擴大、臨床環境中全基因組定序的成長以及我們透過 Vega 擴大客戶群，我們預計 EMEA 將成為 2025 年成長最快的地區。

Looking at 1, specifically, we anticipate typical seasonality, and as a result, we expect revenue in the 1st quarter of 2025 to be lower than the 4th quarter of 2024, with revvio systems and consumable revenue partially offset by increased Vega system revenue.

具體來看 1，我們預計典型的季節性，因此，我們預計 2025 年第 1 季的收入將低於 2024 年第 4 季度，其中 revvio 系統和消耗品收入部分被 Vega 系統收入的增加所抵消。

Moving down the P&L, we expect the 2025 non-gap gross margin to be between 35% and 40%, representing over 400 basis point improvement compared to 2024, and we expect to exit the year above 40%.

從損益表來看，我們預計 2025 年非差距毛利率將在 35% 至 40% 之間，與 2024 年相比提高 400 個基點以上，並且我們預計今年年底毛利率將超過 40%。

We expect to continue removing costs from the revo system and consumables, and the vaga cost of goods sold per unit is expected to improve as the platform moves from pilot manufacturing line to the full production line.

我們預計將繼續從 revo 系統和消耗品中消除成本，隨著平台從試驗生產線轉向完整生產線，每單位銷售商品的成本預計會有所改善。

We expect non-gap operating expenses to decline 3% to 7% compared to 2024 and be in the range of $270 million to $280 million reflecting in large part the annualization of our restructuring in the second quarter of 2024.

我們預計非缺口營運費用將與 2024 年相比下降 3% 至 7%，介於 2.7 億至 2.8 億美元之間，這在很大程度上反映了我們 2024 年第二季重組的年度化。

We expect interest and other income to be between $5 million and $7 million in 2025 and the weighted average share count for EPS for the full year to be approximately $299 million.

我們預計 2025 年利息和其他收入將在 500 萬美元至 700 萬美元之間，全年加權平均每股收益約為 2.99 億美元。

We expect to end the year with cash and investments balance of approximately $260 million implying a $130 million cash burn in 2025 or an improvement of $57 million in adjusted cash burn compared to 2024.

我們預計今年底的現金和投資餘額約為 2.6 億美元，這意味著 2025 年的現金消耗為 1.3 億美元，或與 2024 年相比，調整後的現金消耗將改善 5,700 萬美元。

Finally, as discussed, with our current expectation for 2025 revenue growth, we now anticipate turning cash flow positive exiting 2027 as a result of the continued and recent macroeconomic uncertainty, as well as the recent NIH announcement.

最後，如所討論的，根據我們目前對 2025 年收入成長的預期，由於近期持續的宏觀經濟不確定性以及最近的 NIH 公告，我們預計 2027 年後現金流將轉為正值。

We remain diligent in lowering annual cash burden and believe our approximately $390 million in cash and investments will bridge us to becoming cash flow positive.

我們將繼續努力降低年度現金負擔，並相信約 3.9 億美元的現金和投資將幫助我們實現現金流為正。

Importantly, after our note exchange in the fourth quarter, this time frame still positioned us PABIO to turn cash flow positive with meaningful time before our first debt maturity in August of 2029.

重要的是，在我們第四季度進行票據交換之後，這個時間框架仍然使我們的 PABIO 能夠在 2029 年 8 月第一筆債務到期之前有足夠的時間將現金流轉為正值。

Looking ahead, I want to reiterate that our primary objective in 2025 is to grow revenue and expand gross margins through four main activities.

展望未來，我想重申，我們 2025 年的主要目標是透過四個主要活動來增加收入並擴大毛利率。

First is enabling the full-scale release of Vega, which we expect will broaden the reach of our technology and the Market and bring more new customers to high fi sequencing.

首先是全面發布Vega，我們期望這將拓寬我們的技術和市場覆蓋範圍，並為高保真測序帶來更多新客戶。

Second, we aim to accelerate the number of samples on the Revvio platform through the launch of the Spark chemistry and application kits.

其次，我們旨在透過推出Spark化學和應用套件來加速Revvio平台上的樣品數量。

Revvio has the potential to drive further growth in long read data.

Revvio 有潛力推動長讀資料的進一步成長。

Third, we will continue to invest in future product launches to both amplify and diversify our offerings.

第三，我們將繼續投資於未來的產品發布，以擴大和多樣化我們的產品。

I mentioned several of the exciting initiatives that we're currently working on earlier in this call.

我在本次電話會議早些時候提到了我們目前正在進行的幾個令人興奮的舉措。

And, finally, to progress our clinical strategy to improve outcomes and create durability.

最後，推進我們的臨床策略以改善結果並實現持久性。

With these activities, we believe we can drive growth and market expansion in 2025 while continuing to improve our financial profile.

透過這些活動，我們相信我們可以在 2025 年推動成長和市場擴張，同時繼續改善我們的財務狀況。

I look forward to connecting with many of you this quarter at the annual AGBT meeting and investor conferences.

我期待本季在 AGBT 年度會議和投資者會議上與大家建立聯繫。

We will now open up the call to questions.

我們現在開始回答提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Tycho Peterson, Jeffries.

泰科·彼得森，杰弗里斯。

Hey, thanks, Kristen.

嘿，謝謝，克里斯汀。

I think you talked about an uncertain funding environment much like 2024.

我認為您談論的是一個與 2024 年非常相似的不確定的融資環境。

I'm going to take the other side and say it's a lot different right now.

我想從另一個角度來說，現在的情況已經大不相同了。

So what specifically have you baked in for NIH disruption in the near term?

那麼您為近期 NIH 的顛覆做了哪些具體準備呢？

It sounds like you baked some of it in.

聽起來你好像烤了一些進去。

Did you bake down kind of the full freeze on the 15% overhead?

您是否已經完全凍結了 15% 的開銷？

Well, I think that so thanks, TICO, for the question.

嗯，我想是的，感謝 TICO 提出這個問題。

Of course, the funding environment is very dynamic in the United States right now.

當然，目前美國的融資環境非常活躍。

There's no question about that.

這是毫無疑問的。

But we fully contemplated, some pretty significant headwinds, particularly in the first half of the year.

但我們充分考慮到了一些相當大的阻力，特別是在今年上半年。

And, you saw, we said in our guidance, typical, a bit of typical seasonality, but we expect revenues to be down in Q1 versus Q4, partially because That uncertainty partially because of, kind of typical seasonality.

而且，您會看到，我們在指導中說過，典型的，有點典型的季節性，但我們預計第一季的收入將比第四季度下降，部分原因是這種不確定性，部分原因是典型的季節性。

And so I do think we have, to the best of our ability, kind of baked in what what could be a real challenging time into our guidance.

因此，我確實認為，我們已經盡最大努力，將可能真正具有挑戰性的時期納入了我們的指導中。

One thing we've done, of course, since the since the 15% came out over the last week is we looked at every single opportunity.

當然，自從上週 15% 的稅率出台以來，我們所做的一件事就是尋找每一個機會。

I went, I actually personally went to each member of the American sales team that have an opportunity closing this quarter to TRY to get an assessment of each instrument opportunity in particular.

我實際上親自拜訪了本季有機會結束的美國銷售團隊的每一位成員，試圖對每個儀器機會進行具體的評估。

And, the feedback was there's still some uncertainty, a lot of positivity about getting the deals done that we forecasted, but we still have to get them done.

而且，回饋顯示仍然存在一些不確定性，對於完成我們預測的交易有很多積極性，但我們仍然必須完成它們。

I think I the one area where you may, you may look where we've been really thoughtful.

我認為，這是一個您可能看到我們確實深思熟慮的領域。

Here is we've lowered kind of the pull-through expectation, so we did 2,400 or so in Q4.

我們降低了拉動預期，因此第四季度我們的銷售量為 2,400 左右。

We we gave a pretty broad range of, low 200s to mid-200s, and that's an area where, you could see some funding freezes or pauses, slow activity.

我們給出了一個相當廣泛的範圍，從 200 多美元到 200 多美元之間，在這個範圍內，你可能會看到一些資金凍結或暫停，活動緩慢。

And so we're monitoring the situation.

因此我們正在監視局勢。

We think we've given a responsible guidance here.

我們認為我們在這裡給出了負責任的指導。

The other thing on the positive.

另一件事是正面的。

I'd say, is we have, we're seeing, very exciting growth in Europe that is offsetting, that that is offsetting some of the risk in the Americas.

我想說的是，我們看到歐洲非常令人興奮的成長，這抵消了美洲的一些風險。

And we're also seeing a pretty significant expansion in the clinical side of our business, which isn't funded by NIH sources.

我們也看到業務臨床方面有相當大的擴展，而這項業務並未獲得 NIH 的資助。

And then, finally, we also see Vega really, the sales funnel for Vega is what we've talked about, we talked about this at JTM.

最後，我們也看到了 Vega，Vega 的銷售管道就是我們在 JTM 上討論過的。

Continues to grow, the quality, the op opportunities are strong, and I think that that is, that is the right product.

持續成長，品質和營運機會都很強，我認為這就是正確的產品。

In a situation where the capital is tough.

在資本緊張的情況下。

It does.

是的。

And on Vega, I think at JPM you mentioned you'd only ship 7 units because that's all you had available.

關於 Vega，我記得您在 JPM 提到您只會運送 7 個單位，因為那是您全部可用的單位。

Can you maybe just talk on, anything you can say on backlog and when do you expect to kind of scale up shipments more meaningfully.

您能否談談有關積壓訂單的任何信息，以及您預計何時能夠更有意義地擴大出貨量。

Yeah, so we, I mean, we certainly have some backlog, and we will shift over the course of the quarter.

是的，所以我的意思是，我們肯定有一些積壓，我們將在本季度內進行轉移。

We're scaling up and really what we're doing is the first half of the year we're producing on the R&D, so to speak, pilot production line.

我們正在擴大規模，實際上我們上半年正在研發生產，也就是所謂的試點生產線。

And then in the second half of the year, we'll be on the full production line.

今年下半年，我們將全面投入生產。

So, the inventory situation or ability to deliver will improve each quarter here.

因此，這裡的庫存狀況或交付能力每季都會改善。

And by the time we get into the back half of the year, I suspect we should be able to fulfill, the majority of the demand.

我認為到今年下半年我們應該可以滿足大部分需求。

Last one you just you pushed out cash flow break even by a year.

最後你只是將現金流損益平衡延後了一年。

I just want to make sure I mean I know you're guiding below consensus here just over $20 million, but other other levers you could pull if you need to pull that forward.

我只是想確保我的意思是我知道你在這裡指導的金額低於共識，略高於 2000 萬美元，但如果你需要推動這一進程，你可以使用其他槓桿。

There certainly are.

當然有。

Look, if we obviously, if we can our focus is on driving growth and gross margin expansion, those are the those are the obvious key levers.

看，如果我們顯然能夠將重點放在推動成長和毛利率擴大上，那麼這些就是顯而易見的關鍵槓桿。

But we certainly are are focused on making sure that we're diligent with how we utilize our resources, saving wherever we can, and so there are other opportunities, if necessary, to, further reduce burn.

但我們當然會專注於確保我們勤勉地利用資源，盡可能地節約資源，因此，如果有必要，還有其他機會進一步減少消耗。

All right, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Yeah.

是的。

Kyle Mixon, Kintacord.

凱爾米克森（Kyle Mixon），Kintacord。

Hey guys, thanks for the questions.

嘿夥計們，謝謝你們的提問。

Just to kind of follow up on the guidance, why are revvio shipments expected to decline this year if 24 places we're already about half of that of 23?

只是為了跟進指導，如果 24 個地方的出貨量已經是 23 個地方的一半，為什麼預計今年 revvio 的出貨量會下降？

Like, why is that product fading?

比如，為什麼該產品會褪色？

Is that Mac related, market related, or just cannibalization from from Bago so far?

這與 Mac 有關，還是與市場有關，或者只是來自 Bago 的蠶食？

And is there a further downside to the guidance?

該指引還有其他負面因素嗎？

I know you baked in the challenges to the best of your ability, but could you just TRY like quantifying what's in there for NIH?

我知道您已經盡了最大努力應對挑戰，但您能否嘗試量化 NIH 所面臨的挑戰？

Is it like $5 million or so?

是 500 萬美元左右嗎？

Is it $10 million or so?

是 1,000 萬美元左右嗎？

Just would be helpful to kind of quantify that.

量化這一點會很有幫助。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Yeah.

是的。

So, first of all, I would argue that Vega is not is not significantly cannibalizing Revvio at all.

因此，首先，我認為 Vega 並沒有顯著蠶食 Revvio 的市場份額。

And I would also argue that Revvio is not fading at all.

而且我還認為 Revvio 根本沒有衰落的跡象。

We are really in a one of the most unprecedented macroeconomic times, at least in my career, and in At least in this space.

我們確實正處於一個前所未有的宏觀經濟時期之一，至少在我的職業生涯中是如此，至少在這個領域也是如此。

And so, when we think about the challenges we're having with respect to Revvio and accelerating shipment volume, it really is driven by funding concerns.

因此，當我們考慮 Revvio 和加速出貨量所面臨的挑戰時，這實際上是由資金問題所驅動的。

We're seeing all over the world customers, publishing more and more using hi fi, needing more scale.

我們看到世界各地的客戶越來越多地使用高傳真音響出版，需要更大的規模。

We're seeing customers.

我們正在接待顧客。

Extol the virtues of of Hifi specifically as a long read platform.

特別讚揚 Hifi 作為長讀平台的優點。

We're winning projects like wee one last year in Estonia, etc.

我們去年在愛沙尼亞贏得了一些項目，例如小項目等等。

But the reality is that the macroeconomic environment is really tough, and that continues to be an important driver for expensive, more expensive capital equipment.

但現實是，宏觀經濟環境非常嚴峻，這仍然是推動資本設備價格不斷上漲的重要原因。

And so, when we put our guidance out for 2025, we are considering that it's going to continue to be just as tough a macroeconomic environment, maybe even tougher.

因此，當我們提出 2025 年的指導方針時，我們考慮到宏觀經濟環境將繼續同樣艱難，甚至可能更加艱難。

And so that I would argue that, we said we expected Revvio shipments to be modestly down from from 2024 levels.

因此，我想說，我們預計 Revvio 的出貨量將較 2024 年的水準略有下降。

They could easily they It could easily turn the other way if if if some of the, if the macroeconomic headwinds aren't as bad as we think.

如果宏觀經濟逆風沒有我們想像的那麼糟糕，情況就很容易轉向另一個方向。

So that's how I would comment on Revvio and and Vega.

這是我對 Revvio 和 Vega 的評價。

With respect to, the funding itself and is there further downside to the guidance, I think what we've done is we've really taken our best look at At at the the funding environment, our sales funnels, our opportunities, and tried to put together guidance that we felt was very responsible.

關於融資本身以及指引是否還有進一步的下行空間，我認為我們所做的是，我們確實盡最大努力審視融資環境、我們的銷售管道、我們的機會，並試圖制定我們認為非常負責任的指引。

One of the things that's working in in our favor, Kyle, as I talked about before, is that Europe is actually growing really strong and is expected to grow.

凱爾，正如我之前所說的，對我們有利的因素之一是歐洲實際上正在強勁增長，而且預計還會繼續增長。

Strong this year, and that will drive and then that will help our growth.

今年表現強勁，這將推動並幫助我們成長。

Asia Pacific, well, it does have we do have country-specific challenges.

亞太地區確實面臨特定國家的挑戰。

Vega is a a very strong platform for that part of the world, and we expect to see a strong demand there for Vega.

對於該地區來說，Vega 是一個非常強大的平台，我們預計那裡對 Vega 的需求將非常強勁。

And then we talked about.

然後我們討論了。

Some of our clinical customers, like Myriad and Quest and others, they are scaling up and, in carrier screening and other assays.

我們的一些臨床客戶，例如 Myriad、Quest 等，正在擴大規模並進行攜帶者篩選和其他檢測。

And as those become routine, those are completely additive to growth.

隨著這些成為常規，它們將完全促進成長。

And so I think we have a lot of positive areas where we can grow.

因此我認為我們有很多可以發展的正面領域。

But, of course, we have this significant headwind, I think that pretty much everyone in our industry has been talking about at some level.

但是，當然，我們也面臨著巨大的阻力，我想我們行業中的幾乎每個人都在某種程度上談論這個問題。

Kyle.

凱爾。

Dan Brennan, TD Cowan.

丹布倫南（Dan Brennan），TD Cowan。

Great, thanks for the questions.

非常好，感謝您的提問。

Maybe just to start off just one more on each if you don't mind.

如果您不介意的話，也許只需再開始一個即可。

So your exposure, what question is around 28% or somewhere in that zip code.

那麼您的曝光率，問題是大約 28％ 或在該郵遞區號的某個位置。

I'm just trying to get a sense of like the kind of what's baked in.

我只是想要了解其中蘊含的是什麼。

Is it like a 15% cut on 28%, so like a 4 point headwind?

這是否相當於在 28% 的基礎上再削減 15%，從而造成 4 個百分點的逆風？

Is there something greater than that I'm just kind of wondering like the magnitude of kind of what you've assumed.

還有比這更大的事嗎？

Well, I think our total NH revenue is roughly 20% of revenue.

嗯，我認為我們的 NH 總收入大約佔總收入的 20%。

Historically. And, I do think it can work I do think it's difficult to game out, down to $1.

從歷史上看。而且，我確實認為它可以起作用，我確實認為很難將其降至 1 美元。

I know you're looking for, well, it's $10 million exactly of a risk, but the reality is that it's a lot more complex than that.

我知道你正在尋找 1000 萬美元的風險，但實際情況比這複雜得多。

And I think some of our peers, were helping to TRY to explain that to the to the street.

我認為我們的一些同行正在努力向公眾解釋這一點。

I think, from our perspective, what we're seeing is it's it's really a deal by it's really a deal by deal, institution by institution.

我認為，從我們的角度來看，我們看到的是，這實際上是一項逐筆交易、逐一機構達成的交易。

Some institutions have, fund their instrumentation out of different pools of money.

一些機構從不同的資金池中為其儀器提供資金。

Other institutions, have the the significant overrate that they're Go to apply.

其他機構，則有他們要應用的顯著高估。

And I think it's too early to really game out dollar by dollar.

我認為現在就逐美元進行博弈還為時過早。

So what we've done is we've taken a look at our sales funnel and taken a look at our our opportunities, particularly in the Americas, and evaluated that in its totality to TRY to.

因此，我們所做的是，我們查看了我們的銷售管道，查看了我們的機會，特別是在美洲的機會，並對其進行了全面評估，以嘗試。

Come up with guidance for what we thought.

針對我們的想法給予指導。

Here's what America's going to do.

以下是美國將採取的行動。

Here's what Europe's going to do, and here's what Asia's going to do.

這是歐洲將要做的事情，這是亞洲將要做的事情。

And that's why this this year we gave a little more color region by region in our guidance so that you could get, some perspective that yes, it's it's an important part of our business, but it's not our whole business.

這就是為什麼今年我們在指導中對各個地區進行了更詳細的說明，以便您能夠了解到，是的，這是我們業務的重要組成部分，但不是我們的全部業務。

Thanks Dan.

謝謝丹。

You have the next question, Rocco.

您還有下一個問題，羅科。

Doug Schenkel, Wolf Research.

道格·申克爾（Doug Schenkel），Wolf Research。

Hey, good afternoon guys. I have, let me just draw, I think it's 2 or 3 quick questions.

嘿，大家下午好。我有，讓我畫一下，我認為是 2 或 3 個快速問題。

Actually I'll keep it to 21 is on gross margin you are targeting an exit rate above 40% this year.

實際上我會將毛利率保持在 21，今年您的目標退出率將超過 40％。

We were above consensus and your exit rate is actually higher than our estimate, so there's some sunshine on a rainy day.

我們超越了共識，而您的退出率實際上高於我們的預期，所以下雨天也有一些陽光。

Can you talk about the progress you are making on gross margin and how much gross margin can you get to this year, if you say, revenue comes in closer to where consensus was versus, where you're targeting as we start the year.

您能否談談您在毛利率方面取得的進展以及今年您的毛利率可以達到多少？

So that's the first topic.

這是第一個主題。

And then the second is, acknowledging there's a lot of things happening outside your control.

第二，承認有很多事情的發生是你無法控制的。

In terms of what you can control, are there things that you are moving forward with as we sit here today to reduce friction to adoption of your instruments, maybe more things like agent rental type things or other initiatives that, could make it easier for customers to bring in instruments in what could be a tougher environment for capital demand. Thank you.

就您可以控制的事情而言，當我們今天坐在這裡時，您是否正在推進一些事情來減少採用您的工具的摩擦，也許更多的是代理租賃類型的事情或其他舉措，這些舉措可以讓客戶在資本需求可能更加嚴峻的環境下更容易地引入工具。謝謝。

Yeah, thank you, Doug.

是的，謝謝你，道格。

Those are great questions, and I appreciate the sentiment on gross margin because I do think it it is an area where we're going to see significant opportunity this year.

這些都是很好的問題，我很欣賞對毛利率的看法，因為我確實認為這是我們今年將會看到重大機會的一個領域。

When what's really happening, in seeing gross margin is in Q4, we had some yield issues on which drove some impact to our GM.

當看到第四季度的毛利率時，實際情況是，我們遇到了一些產量問題，這對我們的毛利率產生了一些影響。

Those have been largely resolved and we're on our way back.

這些問題已基本解決，我們正在回歸的路上。

We continue to make progress in terms of lowering the per unit cost of both the the chips.

我們在降低晶片單位成本方面不斷取得進展。

Our smart cells, as well as the instruments themselves.

我們的智慧細胞，以及儀器本身。

We've insourced a lot more of our our instrument manufacturing, which is driving pretty substantial savings.

我們將更多的儀器製造業務外包出去，這帶來了相當可觀的節約。

And as those instruments go into inventory and then get sold through, we'll start to see the benefit of that as well.

隨著這些儀器進入庫存並被售出，我們也將開始看到其好處。

So there, we do have a very strong path.

因此，我們確實有一條非常強大的道路。

To exiting, over over 40 and and actually nicely over 40.

退出，超過 40，實際上超過 40。

Your point about relative to prior consensus is actually an interesting one because you're right, it's likely that gross margins would be higher if we were, the more revenue we do, the more likely the gross margins are going to be higher.

您對相對於先前共識的觀點實際上很有趣，因為您是對的，如果我們這樣做，毛利率可能會更高，我們的收入越多，毛利率就越有可能更高。

And the reason for that is because you're going to see a greater push of consumables, which generally carry higher gross margin.

原因在於你將看到消耗品的更大推動，而消耗品通常具有更高的毛利率。

And as that makeshift occurs, you get a substantial benefit from that.

當這種臨時措施發生時，您將從中獲得巨大的利益。

And so, one of the things we were pretty, we were pretty thoughtful about how we thought about our consumable revenues, which, on the one side, Being if they're lower on your revenue guidance, that hurts your gross margin.

因此，我們非常認真地考慮了我們的消耗品收入，一方面，如果它們低於你的收入預期，這會損害你的毛利率。

But if you end up doing a little bit better, that will help your gross margin.

但如果最終表現更好一點，這將有助於提高你的毛利率。

So those are those are that's that kind of gives you some color on how to think about how we, how we're going to move through the year with gross margin and exit the year, quite frankly, in a what we believe will be a really strong position moving into 2026.

所以，這些可以給你一些啟發，讓你知道我們如何思考今年的毛利率，以及如何在年底時實現這一目標，坦白說，我們相信在 2026 年我們將處於非常強勁的地位。

The last, the other part of your question, there is a lot of stuff that we can do that, TRY to combat the Combat the macroeconomic environment.

最後，你問題的另一部分，我們可以做很多事情，試著對抗宏觀經濟環境。

And we do have programs in place.

我們確實已經制定了計劃。

We have what we call a run revvio program where you can put very little money down and and bake it in bake the cost of the instrument into the reagents and consumables.

我們有一個所謂的運行 revvio 程序，您只需投入很少的錢，然後將儀器的成本計入試劑和消耗品中。

We have a similar program that we launched for Vega, although most customers so far have been pretty pretty.

我們也為 Vega 推出了一個類似的計劃，儘管到目前為止大多數客戶都相當漂亮。

Happy with the price of Vega, and I do expect ASPs to be pretty strong for Vega here in the particularly in the, particularly in 2025.

我對 Vega 的價格很滿意，而且我確實預計 Vega 的 ASP 會相當強勁，特別是在 2025 年。

We'll see how 26 goes, but I think we we're off to a strong start there with respect to AASP.

我們將觀察 26 的進展情況，但我認為，就 AASP 而言，我們已經有了一個很好的開始。

We're also, another area where, if you're thinking about how do we accelerate our business is accelerate consumable.

如果您正在考慮如何加速我們的業務，那麼我們還有另一個領域，那就是加速消耗品。

Usage.

用法。

And the way we're doing that is by increasing our bioinformatics, investments and capabilities.

我們這樣做的目的是增加我們的生物資訊學、投資和能力。

I've had the benefit of being at our sales meeting this week, so I've had a chance to talk to all of our sales reps and listen to several customer talks.

本週我有幸參加了我們的銷售會議，因此我有機會與我們所有的銷售代表交談並聽取一些客戶的對話。

And each of the customers, really are driving home the point that informatics matters a lot and that our informatics cap.

而且，每一位客戶都真正認識到了資訊學的重要性以及我們的資訊學上限。

Were dramatically improved in 2024, and it's really accelerating the activity.

2024 年得到了顯著改善，這確實加速了活動。

So it is a combination of financial deals that you can do that enable the customer to get into the technology, but it's also activities like improving the velocity of consumable usage by improving informatics, which then drives more.

因此，你可以進行多種金融交易，使客戶能夠獲得技術，但同時也可以透過改進資訊學來提高消耗品使用速度，從而推動更多發展。

Requirements for capacity and ultimately more sales.

對產能的要求以及最終的更多銷售。

Hope that helps.

希望能有所幫助。

One thing to add on your gross margin cadence question Doug, we talked about Vega in the second half of the year moving into the production line.

Doug，關於您關於毛利率節奏的問題，我想補充一點，我們談到了 Vega 將在下半年進入生產線。

And so that, over the course of the year you'll see an improvement in gross margin as that gets off the units into the full production.

因此，在一年的時間裡，您將看到毛利率的提高，因為毛利率已從單位產量轉向全面生產。

Manufacturing mode.

製造模式。

Yeah, and that's, Todd.

是的，那是托德。

That's a that's a substantial improvement in gross margins.

這意味著毛利率有了顯著的增加。

Thanks.

謝謝。

We have the next.

我們還有下一個。

Question, Rocco.

有疑問，羅科。

Tejaant, Morgan Stanley.

Tejaant，摩根士丹利。

Hey guys, good evening and thanks for the time here.

嘿，大家晚上好，感謝你們接受我的訪問。

Christian, I just want to get a sense for how you're incorporating some of the customer concentration risk into your 25 guide.

克里斯蒂安，我只是想了解您是如何將一些客戶集中風險納入您的 25 個指南的。

You flagged the momentum a couple of times, but it sounds like it's Estonia, Rahu, and Dubai that are, certainly important there, and you've got the Berry partnership, that's that sort of a flagship customer for you in China.

您曾幾次強調這一勢頭，但聽起來愛沙尼亞、拉胡和杜拜在這些國家無疑非常重要，而且您與 Berry 建立了合作夥伴關係，這對您在中國來說是一個旗艦客戶。

And then the second part of My question, just sticking on the China theme, are you seeing any concerns from your customers in the region in light of, Lumina's addition to that unreliable entity list, or does the fact that there just aren't any great sort of local long read alternatives mean no impact on that count for you guys?

然後是我的問題的第二部分，只是堅持中國主題，鑑於 Lumina 被添加到不可靠實體名單中，您是否看到該地區的客戶有任何擔憂，或者事實上沒有任何很好的本地長讀替代方案是否意味著對您來說這沒有影響？

Yeah. Hey, those are great questions.

是的。嘿，這些都是很好的問題。

I'll I'll I'll start with China first and go backwards.

我將先從中國開始，然後再倒敘。

We are, we've had lots of conversations with our Chinese customers, and, interestingly, there are no alternatives to what we do in China, which certainly Decreases our risk of of any of any blowback from what's what's going on with our competitors.

我們已經與中國客戶進行過多次對話，有趣的是，我們在中國所做的事情沒有其他選擇，這無疑降低了我們受到競爭對手影響的風險。

And so, we don't see that as a big exposure.

因此，我們並不認為這會帶來太大的風險。

Now what we can't control or predict is, on the export side, if the, if the administration decides.

現在我們無法控製或預測的是，在出口方面，如果政府做出決定。

To make some changes there, that could be an exposure that we would have.

在那裡做出一些改變，這可能是我們所面臨的一個挑戰。

And, quite frankly, I'm not sure we would have a lot of mitigation to that or some retaliation, from China itself.

而且坦白說，我不確定我們是否會對此採取很大的緩解措施或遭到中國本身的報復。

But, from what we see at this moment, our our customers don't see any issues.

但從我們目前看到的情況來看，我們的客戶並沒有發現任何問題。

And are are continuing to run.

並且還在繼續運作。

And and I do think there is a lot of, I do think there's an interesting opportunity for Vega inside of China this year too, and we'll see how that unfolds.

我確實認為，今年 Vega 在中國也有很多有趣的機會，我們拭目以待。

With respect to customer concentration risk, right?

關於客戶集中度風險，對嗎？

It's a good news bad news story in the sense that, yes, you have some we do have some customers that are running, large-scale programs, but, when you sit and talk to these customers like Estonia, they're running at at full tilts, and they plan to keep running at full tilts, and the program is going exceptionally well.

這是個好消息，也是壞消息，是的，我們確實有一些客戶正在運行大型項目，但是，當你坐下來與愛沙尼亞等客戶交談時，你會發現他們正在全速運轉，而且他們計劃繼續全速運轉，而且項目進展非常順利。

We, in fact, we had the leader of the biobank here at our sales meeting this week, and she gave us a great Talk and update of what's going on there.

事實上，本週我們的銷售會議邀請了生物庫的負責人參加，她為我們做了精彩的演講，並向我們通報了那裡的最新情況。

One thing, the way that risk is is going to get mitigated is that we do see more customers moving into that large customer category, particularly as some of the diagnostic customers will, in hopefully in 2025, advance advance their assays into full production.

一件事，風險將得到緩解的方式是，我們確實看到更多的客戶進入這個大客戶類別，特別是因為一些診斷客戶預計在 2025 年推進他們的檢測進入全面生產。

And as that happens, that, they'll be running rev reviews at at full tills, which will be, very durable revenue in the clinical setting.

當這種情況發生時，他們將對全部收入進行收入評估，這在臨床環境中將是一筆非常可觀的收入。

And that's that's really what we're trying to go after so that we can balance the research, population scale with with clinical revenue that is, quite durable and consistent.

這正是我們真正追求的目標，以便我們可以在研究、人口規模和臨床收入之間取得平衡，並保持持久和穩定。

And also, on top of that, hey, justice, we're seeing customers like the Sanger Institute accelerate their their usage of of revvio both on the Tree of Life.

此外，最重要的是，我們看到像桑格研究所這樣的客戶在生命之樹上加速使用 revvio。

Which they've been, we've been longtime customers or they've been a longtime customer of, but now we've been able to penetrate into the human genetics side, and we're doing a really interesting collaboration with them in RNA sequencing which will drive some significant sequencing this year.

他們一直是我們的長期客戶，或者他們是我們的長期客戶，但現在我們已經能夠深入人類遺傳學方面，我們正在與他們進行 RNA 測序方面的非常有趣的合作，這將推動今年的一些重要測序。

So, the best way to alleviate customer concentration is to find more big customers and and I think that's what's happening right now.

因此，緩解客戶集中度的最佳方法是尋找更多大客戶，我認為這就是現在正在發生的事情。

Thanks, Deja.

謝謝，Deja。

Next please.

有請下一位。

Rocco.

洛可。

Jack Meehan, Ne from Research.

來自研究部門的 Jack Meehan 博士。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Good afternoon.

午安.

Hoping to get a little bit more color on Vega.

希望 Vega 能呈現更多色彩。

The 7 units that you shipped in the 4th quarter, could you talk about just what the initial revenue was there and then, as you look to 2025, how does the order book look and kind of what are you assuming in terms of placements?

您在第四季出貨了 7 台設備，能否談談當時的初始收入是多少？

Thank.

感謝。

Yeah, so we haven't disclosed, kind of the ending orders for 2024, but we have talked in terms of that we've developed, at this point, hundreds of opportunities, over 70% of them are new customers.

是的，我們還沒有透露 2024 年的最終訂單，但我們已經談到，到目前為止，我們已經開發了數百個機會，其中 70％ 以上是新客戶。

We would expect to scale manufacturing over the course.

我們希望在這過程中擴大生產規模。

Of the first half of the year, and it's likely that we'll be more manufacturing limited than than order-limited with respect to revenue, and we'll see how that unfolds.

在上半年，就收入而言，我們的製造限制可能比訂單限制更大，我們將拭​​目以待事態將如何發展。

But and the revenue in the fourth quarter, you could imagine, yeah, it's 7.

但是，你可以想像第四季的收入是 7。

Units.

單位。

At at basically a little bit more than around this price. So Yeah. The finance teams looking at me saying, yes, that's right.

基本上比這個價格稍微貴一點。是的。財務團隊看著我說，是的，沒錯。

Yeah.

是的。

So we haven't done any we haven't really done any discounting on on the on the on the Vega system.

因此，我們實際上沒有對 Vega 系統做任何折扣。

When you see the ASPs, kind of at the end of Q1, what you'll likely see is we do sell the.

當您看到第一季末的 ASP 時，您可能會看到我們確實在銷售。

Distributors, and those distributors will get, a distributor discount because they end up paying for the service and installation, and that's typical, but that would be effectively the distributor list price.

分銷商將獲得分銷商折扣，因為他們最終支付服務和安裝費用，這是很常見的情況，但這實際上就是分銷商的標價。

And so I think the ASP, I think we set the price right to drive to drive demand, and so far we haven't had a lot of objections to the price.

因此我認為，我們設定的 ASP 價格是正確的，可以推動需求，到目前為止，我們還沒有收到太多關於價格的異議。

And so we'll see how we do.

因此我們將看看我們的表現如何。

Jack.

傑克。

Sabu Namdi, Guggenheim.

薩布·納姆迪，古根漢。

Hey guys, thank you for taking my question.

嘿夥計們，謝謝你們回答我的問題。

I'm curious if you're running into Roche in any of their potential be sites, and how do you think about the possibility of another long lead market entrant and then I have a follow up.

我很好奇您是否在任何潛在的站點遇到過羅氏，以及您如何看待另一個長期領先市場進入者的可能性，然後我會跟進。

Yeah.

是的。

So we haven't really run into Roche, to my knowledge at all yet, and we haven't had any any deal stalled because of Roche.

所以就我所知，我們還沒有真正遇到過羅氏公司，而且我們也沒有因為羅氏公司而陷入任何交易停滯。

I don't think that that is a that is a thing.

我不認為那是一件事情。

It will be interesting to see what what their technology is when they when they launch it.

看看當他們推出它時他們的技術是什麼將會很有趣。

It's my understanding.

這是我的理解。

It's a shortrefocused technology, but the reality is that we don't know.

這是一項短期聚焦技術，但現實情況是，我們並不知道。

And so we will see when they come out.

等它們出來後我們就能知道了。

But, and I'm sure there will be a lot more, we'll all learn a lot more about it at AGBT in a couple of weeks, and so I'm looking forward to that.

但是，我確信還會有更多，我們將在幾週後的 AGBT 上了解更多信息，因此我對此充滿期待。

But here's here's what I can tell you.

但這就是我可以告訴你的。

We have built a portfolio now of sequencers and an end to end solution that the company has never had in its history, and that is driving more excitement, more discovery, more demand.

我們現在已經建立了公司歷史上前所未有的定序儀產品組合和端到端解決方案，這將推動更多的興奮、更多的發現和更多的需求。

Than ever before.

比以往任何時候都多。

We, it is unfortunate that we've been in this macroeconomic environment because I do think that that's had an impact, of course.

我們很不幸地處於這種宏觀經濟環境中，因為我確實認為這當然產生了影響。

But, when you look at the discoveries that are being made, the clinical adoption, the increased improvement in salt rates in rare disease, the population scale programs like Precise and Estonia that we are winning and are expanding.

但是，當你看到正在取得的發現、臨床應用、罕見疾病中鹽含量的改善、以及我們正在贏得並擴大的 Precise 和愛沙尼亞等人口規模項目時。

We, we've really, we really are making a lot of progress as a leader in long range sequencing technology, and so I feel very confident in our portfolio, and we will certainly be watching like everyone else does when when the products come out and we'll evaluate it after.

作為長距離定序技術的領導者，我們確實取得了很大進展，因此我對我們的產品組合非常有信心，我們一定會像其他人一樣關注產品的推出，然後對其進行評估。

For that question. Thank you for that question.

對於這個問題。感謝您的提問。

I'm sure in the current environment you're attempting to really deal with guidance.

我確信在當前環境下您正在嘗試真正地處理指導。

On the flip side, if you were to rank order the top three things that could actually drive upside to your guidance, what would they be?

另一方面，如果要您排列出真正能夠推動您實現指導目標的三大因素，它們會是什麼？

I'm basically thinking review pull through Vega placements or growth outside the academic market.

我基本上在考慮透過 Vega 的展示位置或學術市場以外的成長來進行評論。

Yeah, I think, like, if you had to put a Top 3 for for things that would actually drive guidance to the upside, I'd say the first would be there are severalopGen projects that we are, working with groups and, potentially may, we may end up being able to get those press releases out and start the sequencing.

是的，我認為，如果必須列出前三名能夠真正推動指引上行的因素，我會說第一項是我們正在進行的幾個 opGen 項目，與各個團體合作，而且有可能，我們最終能夠發布這些新聞稿並開始排序。

Those would drive.

這些會開車。

Strong revvi demand because they would be at scale.

revvi 需求強勁，因為它們可以實現規模化。

So, if the PopGen programs would drive increased rev demand, increased revvio demand would certainly drive drive the guidance up to the higher end towards the higher end.

因此，如果 PopGen 計劃能夠推動 rev 需求增加，那麼 revvio 需求增加肯定能夠推動指導價格向更高水準邁進。

The second would be, the timing of clinical adoption and broader clinical adoption.

第二個是臨床應用的時機和更廣泛的臨床應用。

So we saw RAID commit to 5,000 more genomes in rare disease.

因此我們看到 RAID 致力於研究 5,000 多個罕見疾病基因組。

We have there's similar kinds of projects going on in Sweden, for example.

例如，我們在瑞典正在進行類似的計畫。

As they as they continue to scale, that will be another source of potential upside.

隨著他們不斷擴大規模，這將成為另一個潛在的上升空間。

And then, if the I mean, the last one that's perhaps the most obvious, right, is that if the macro environment approves even a little bit and we have more certainty around NIH funding, perhaps that drives that would certainly drive our guidance in a more positive direction.

然後，如果我的意思是最後一個也許是最明顯的，對吧，就是如果宏觀環境哪怕有一點點批准，我們對 NIH 的資助有更多的確定性，也許這肯定會推動我們的指導朝著更積極的方向發展。

So those are my top three, I would say.

所以我想說，這些就是我最喜歡的三名。

Thanks to the next question, please.

謝謝，請回答下一個問題。

I've actually haveuna with social bank.

我實際上已經與社交銀行有合作。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Hi, thanks for taking the question.

你好，謝謝你回答這個問題。

Christian, I was just wondering the 15% revenue coming from clinical, do you have a sense of where that could go over the next few years?

克里斯蒂安，我只是想知道 15% 的收入來自臨床，您是否知道未來幾年這個數字會達到多少？

I was wondering if the kind of the growth outlook is pretty broad-based, geographically and in terms of the types of applications, are they pretty similar, in terms of what the demand you're seeing in the US versus ex US? Thank you.

我想知道這種成長前景是否相當廣泛，從地理和應用類型來看，就美國和美國以外地區的需求而言，它們是否非常相似？謝謝。

Yeah, that's that's a really great question.

是的，這是一個非常好的問題。

And, I don't.

但我沒有。

A perfect crystal ball there, but I do believe that, if that revenue from clinical over, say, over the next 3 years could actually represent it could easily double from where we are now, 15% to 30+% of our total revenue.

這是一個完美的水晶球，但我確實相信，如果未來 3 年的臨床收入實際上可以代表我們現在的水平，那麼它很容易就能翻一番，占我們總收入的 15% 到 30% 以上。

And it's going to come from several different areas.

而且它將來自幾個不同的領域。

It's going to come from, rare whole genome sequencing in a rare disease context as a front-line test.

它將來自罕見疾病背景下的罕見全基因組定序，作為第一線測試。

As we expand further into children's hospitals in the United States and into national programs around the world, perhaps like the Netherlands.

隨著我們進一步擴展到美國的兒童醫院以及世界各地的國家項目，也許像荷蘭一樣。

It's going to come in panel testing.

它將進行面板測試。

Our ure target, our pure target panel has really inspired the large clinical testing labs because, with pure target, they can eliminate their legacy test and operate at much higher multiplex, much more with much better and easier answers to get, and, therefore, save money and and help more patients.

我們的 URE 目標，我們的純目標面板確實啟發了大型臨床檢測實驗室，因為透過純目標，他們可以消除傳統測試，以更高的多路復用方式進行操作，從而更容易獲得更好、更準確的答案，並因此節省資金並幫助更多患者。

And so, pure target and that will be things like carrier testing, looking at ataxis, anything where you have, complex germline-driven disease.

因此，純粹的目標是諸如攜帶者測試、觀察共濟失調以及任何複雜的生殖系驅動疾病。

And then the last area will be in in oncology, both, on the laundry side, looking at being able to look at methylation profiles, being able to look at both apple types and.

最後一個領域是腫瘤學，在洗衣方面，能夠查看甲基化譜，能夠查看蘋果類型等。

To understand more more about a tumor, that will be and it's in clinical research right now, but, over time, say, in this three-year window, I do think there's going to be opportunities for us to penetrate parts of that market and grow our revenue.

為了更了解腫瘤，這將是目前正在進行的臨床研究，但隨著時間的推移，比如說，在這三年的時間裡，我確實認為我們將有機會滲透到該市場的部分領域並增加我們的收入。

So, all in, I think it will be one of the fastest growing areas of our business and it perhaps could be, at least double what we're doing now in terms of percentage of the total.

所以，總的來說，我認為這將是我們業務成長最快的領域之一，而且就佔總份額的百分比而言，它可能至少是我們現在的兩倍。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Matthew Sykes at Goldman Sachs.

高盛的馬修賽克斯 (Matthew Sykes)。

Hi, this is Evian from Matt.

你好，我是 Matt，我是 Evian。

Thanks for taking my questions.

感謝您回答我的問題。

So my first one is what trends are you seeing in the, region rental models placement versus like what percent of instruments you're seeing, through CapEx placements.

所以我的第一個問題是，您在區域租賃模型部署中看到了什麼趨勢，以及透過資本支出部署看到的工具百分比是多少。

Yeah.

是的。

The reality is we still see the majority of our sales as as straight CapEx placements.

實際情況是，我們仍然認為大部分銷售額是直接資本支出。

We do a few reagent rentals or, unique financing type deals each quarter.

我們每季都會進行一些試劑租賃或獨特的融資類型的交易。

We do have a very We do have a very strong leasing partner that will do leases, and, typically, we get a few of those leases done every quarter as well.

我們確實有一個非常強大的租賃合作夥伴來做租賃，而且通常我們每季也會完成一些租賃。

It really depends on the situation, but the reality is the vast majority are still CapEx purchases.

這確實要視情況而定，但現實情況是絕大多數仍是資本支出採購。

That's right.

這是正確的。

Okay, great.

好的，太好了。

And then can you talk through the margin contribution from Revio versus Vega?

然後可以談談 Revio 與 Vega 的利潤貢獻嗎？

I understand this might improve throughout the years you moved to production manufacturing, but any numbers you could put around that would be great.

我知道隨著你們轉向生產製造的這些年，這種情況可能會有所改善，但是如果你能給出任何相關數字那就太好了。

I'm sorry, you're looking for the comparative margins of revvio and Daga.

抱歉，您正在尋找 revvio 與 Daga 的比較利潤。

The contribution margin.

貢獻毛利。

It's a little too early to disclose, that on Vega yet.

現在透露有關 Vega 的消息還為時過早。

Let's we need to get through at least the full quarter of production to start really understanding that.

我們需要至少經歷整個季度的生產才能真正理解這一點。

But the fact that the Revvio has been in production, we've been able to insource a lot of it, and we have taken a substantial amount of the compute cost through down and out through innovation makes the.

但事實上，Revvio 已經投入生產，我們已經能夠內部採購大量產品，並且透過不斷創新，我們已經降低了相當一部分計算成本。

The Revvio gross margin higher at first here.

Revvio 的毛利率一開始較高。

The the challenge on the Revvio side, of course, is managing the ASP.

當然，Revvio 方面的挑戰在於管理 ASP。

And so making sure the ASP stays in a range.

因此確保 ASP 保持在一定範圍內。

On the Vega side, we've we've positioned it to be a nice gross margin product for us, particularly as we exit, as we kind of get to the back half of 25 and beyond.

在 Vega 方面，我們將其定位為一款毛利率不錯的產品，特別是當我們退出時，因為我們將進入 25 年的後半段及以後。

In the front half, it will be low.

在前半部分，它會很低。

Or in the back GAAP it'll start to, approach or perhaps even exceed the margin on revvio.

或者在後面的 GAAP 中，它將開始接近甚至超過 revvio 的利潤率。

So we'll see how that goes.

我們看看情況如何。

Yeah, we're already.

是的，我們已經這麼做了。

Looking at 26 and beyond how we could even take further costs out of Vega.

展望 26 及以後，我們如何進一步降低 Vega 的成本。

So you know beyond this year moving into production, there's a pathway beyond that to reduce cost even further.

所以你知道，今年投入生產之後，還有一條途徑可以進一步降低成本。

Yeah, I think this is one thing that maybe people don't appreciate as much because.

是的，我認為這是人們可能不太重視的一件事。

Instrumentation companies don't take so much cost out of their instruments after they get on market, but because our technology, is so much of our technology is compute-driven, and when you think about the cost of the instrument, we've been as we improve our algorithms, as we improve our our smart cells, we're able to take substantial amounts of cost out of out of the instrumentation.

儀器儀表公司在將儀器儀表投放市場後，不會從中節省太多成本，但由於我們的技術很大一部分是由計算驅動的，當你考慮儀器儀表的成本時，隨著我們不斷改進演算法，不斷改進智能單元，我們能夠從儀器儀表中節省大量成本。

And that will.

確實如此。

Apply whether it's Revvio or Vega.

無論是 Revvio 還是 Vega 都適用。

One of the things we did with Vega is, of course, we designed it for higher gross margins.

當然，我們對 Vega 所採取的措施之一就是為了獲得更高的毛利率。

We miniaturized things.

我們把事物小型化。

We innovated in some of the areas where there's core expense.

我們在一些核心支出領域進行了創新。

So it has the opportunity to be a very strong gross margin product.

因此它有機會成為毛利率非常高的產品。

But before we start putting a bunch of numbers around it, I want to see us get a few quarters under our belt of production to see how we really do it scale.

但在我們開始給出一系列數字之前，我想先看看我們的生產經驗有幾個季度了，看看我們真正如何擴大規模。

Thanks for the question.

謝謝你的提問。

Mason Carrico, Stevens.

梅森卡里科、史蒂文斯。

Hey guys, thanks for fitting me in here.

嘿夥計們，感謝你們讓我來這裡。

I'll keep it to one.

我會將其保留為一個。

On the cash flow break even timeline change, could you just provide some additional detail around what assumptions did change, any color on the run rate for revenue or margins that are required to get there.

關於現金流損益平衡時間表的變化，您能否提供一些額外的細節，說明哪些假設發生了變化，以及達到該目標所需的收入或利潤的運行率。

Well, I think sure.

嗯，我想當然如此。

And and thank you for the question.

感謝您的提問。

I mean, I think, realistically, right, we we we we certainly didn't perform as expected in 2024, which lowered our revenue trajectory.

我的意思是，我認為，現實地說，我們在 2024 年的表現肯定沒有達到預期，這降低了我們的收入軌跡。

And in 2025, given the uncertainty in the guidance we gave, we wanted to make sure that we were responsible in thinking through the whole equation.

而在 2025 年，考慮到我們所給予的指導中的不確定性，我們希望確保我們負責任地思考整個問題。

And the whole equation to get to cap break even.

以及達到損益兩平的整個方程式。

And so, the core assumptions you think about are kind of thinking about the midpoint of our guidance right now, both on the both on the revenue growth and and the gross margin, and then starting to think about, modest growth up from there in 26 and 27, so that by the time we're getting, out of 27, we are, we're exiting, cash flow positive.

因此，您考慮的核心假設是考慮我們目前指引的中點，包括收入成長和毛利率，然後開始考慮 26 年和 27 年的適度成長，以便到 27 年時，我們的現金流為正。

Basically, as if we, as we were thinking with with 2026.

基本上，就像我們在思考 2026 年一樣。

And so the the key is you're going to see, you, we do believe you're going to see gross margins expand over the course of the year so that we exit in the 40s.

因此，關鍵是您將會看到，我們確實相信您將看到毛利率在一年內擴大，以便我們能夠達到 40% 的水平。

We still believe we can get into the 50s and beyond.

我們仍然相信我們能夠進入50年代甚至更遠。

In gross margin, and as we continue to scale our business, drive cons consumers become a greater proportion of the total revenue, you start to see that uplift in the combination of those things, along with disciplined expense management gets you to capital break even.

就毛利率而言，隨著我們不斷擴大業務規模，推動消費者在總收入中所佔的比例越來越大，您會開始看到這些因素結合起來帶來的提升，再加上嚴格的費用管理，您將實現資本收支平衡。

Luke Serggott, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的盧克‧塞格特 (Luke Serggott)。

This is SAM one for Luke.

這是盧克的 SAM 一號。

Thanks for squeezing me in here.

謝謝你把我擠在這裡。

Just on revvio pull through, took a small step down in 42.

剛剛透過 revvio 拉動，在 42 中邁出了一小步。

How much of that came from maybe a an air pocket from Spark and or Vega?

其中有多少可能是來自 Spark 或 Vega 的氣穴？

A And then just, looking ahead at the new guide, low to mid 200,000 pull through, what does that kind of imply from an instrument capacity utilization perspective now that you know spark enters the equation and I know you're embedding some of the NIH risk in there but the pull through.

答：然後，展望新指南，20 萬到 20 萬的低位到中位拉動量，從儀器容量利用率的角度來看，這意味著什麼，現在您知道火花進入了方程式，我知道您在其中嵌入了一些 NIH 風險，但拉動量卻是多少。

Is that reflective of you know the lower sequencing cost not offsetting the the demand this year.

這是否反映出較低的定序成本未能抵銷今年的需求。

I'll leave it there.

我就把它留在那裡。

Yeah.

是的。

So, with respect to, was there an air pocket in Q4?

那麼，第四季是否存在氣泡現象？

I mean, we did anytime you announce a change in reagents, you are going to have customers using their existing inventory before shipping more product.

我的意思是，每當您宣布更換試劑時，我們都會讓客戶在運送更多產品之前使用他們現有的庫存。

And so we didn't start shipping the Spark reagents until basically the last what, two weeks of the quarter.

因此，我們直到本季的最後兩週才開始運送 Spark 試劑。

We also ended up with some we also did have some backorder.

我們也最終得到了一些，但確實也有一些積壓訂單。

For some of our application kits.

對於我們的一些應用套件。

And that backorder, that was a pretty reasonable amount of backorder, and so that hurt us as well.

而且那筆積壓訂單是相當合理的積壓訂單量，所以這也對我們造成了傷害。

And so, yeah, there was a bit, there was certainly a bit of that.

所以，是的，有一點，肯定有一點。

You're right, it was 240 versus, what, 253 or 254 last quarter.

您說得對，實際數字是 240，而上一季的數字是 253 或 254。

So, I think Todd was at JPM, he was saying, that's like half a run.

所以，我認為托德在摩根大通，他說，這就像是半場跑步。

And so there was certainly some of That.

所以肯定存在一些這樣的情況。

When you think about the guidance for the for the, low to mid low to mid-200s, we certainly are our first priority is thinking through NIH exposure, any potential funding freezes that we see with with intramural.

當您考慮針對 200 多美元的低至中低端的指導時，我們的首要任務當然是考慮 NIH 的曝光，以及我們看到的任何與校內相關的潛在資金凍結。

Even the perception of that is, certainly creates anxiety with our customer base, and so we're monitoring, we're monitoring.

即使是這樣的看法也肯定會引起我們的客戶群的焦慮，所以我們正在監控，正在監控。

That.

那。

But I don't think it's, I don't really think the Spark reagents, in other words, the increase in throughput because of the reagents, creates that that air pocket.

但我不認為，我真的不認為 Spark 試劑，換句話說，由於試劑而導致的吞吐量增加會形成那個氣穴。

In fact, most customers that we've spoken to so far, they're excited about implementing Spark, and they're not doing they're they're they're typically not doing more multiplex onto the same runs, particularly in human whole human.

事實上，到目前為止，我們交談過的大多數客戶都對實施 Spark 感到興奮，而且他們通常不會在同一次運行中進行更多多路復用，特別是在人類全人體研究中。

Genome applications.

基因組應用。

And so, I think they're just they're they're getting the benefit of more data.

所以，我認為他們只是從更多數據中獲益。

And so I don't think it's going to have a big impact, from that perspective, kind of that elasticity equation that that you kind of talk about.

因此，從這個角度來看，我認為它不會對您談論的彈性方程式產生很大的影響。

So, yeah, I think that it's really we're being thoughtful about the funding environment and the timing of when studies get started.

所以，是的，我認為我們確實在認真考慮資金環境和研究開始的時間。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

This includes the question and answer session.

其中包括問答環節。

I'd like to turn the conference back over to Todd Friedman for closing the mark.

我想將會議交還給托德·弗里德曼來結束這一會議。

Awesome. Thank you, Rocco and and thank you for everybody joining today. Thank you all for the questions and staying a few minutes late with us.

驚人的。謝謝你，羅科，也謝謝今天的各位嘉賓。感謝大家的提問以及與我們晚幾分鐘相處。

As Christian mentioned, we look forward to connecting with a lot of you at AGDT and other investor conferences throughout the quarter.

正如克里斯蒂安所說，我們期待在整個季度的 AGDT 和其他投資者會議上與大家建立聯繫。

Take care.

小心。

Thank you.

謝謝。

This includes today's conference call.

其中包括今天的電話會議。

We thank you all for attending today's presentation.

我們感謝大家參加今天的演講。

You may not have snatch your minds and have a wonderful day.

您可能還沒有集中註意力並度過美好的一天。