Plains All American Pipeline LP (PAA) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the PAA and PAGP's third-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 PAA 和 PAGP 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作人員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。

I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Blake Fernandez, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我謹將會議交給今天的第一位發言人，投資者關係副總裁布萊克費南德斯。請繼續。

Thank you, Andrea. Good morning, and welcome to Plains All American's third-quarter 2025 earnings call. Today's slide presentation is posted on the Investor Relations website under the News and Events section at ir.plains.com. An audio replay will also be available following the call today. Important disclosures regarding forward-looking statements and non-GAAP financial measures are provided on slide 2.

謝謝你，安德里亞。早上好，歡迎參加 Plains All American 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。今天的幻燈片簡報已發佈在投資者關係網站 ir.plains.com 的「新聞與活動」專欄下。電話會議結束後，還將提供音訊回放。有關前瞻性陳述和非GAAP財務指標的重要揭露資訊請參閱第2頁投影片。

An overview of today's call is provided on slide 3. A condensed consolidating balance sheet for PAGP and other reference materials are in the appendix. Today's call will be hosted by Willie Chiang, Chairman, CEO and President; and Al Swanson, Executive Vice President and CFO, along with other members of our management team.

今天的電話會議概要請見投影片 3。PAGP 的簡明合併資產負債表及其他參考資料請見附錄。今天的電話會議將由董事長、執行長兼總裁蔣偉強，以及執行副總裁兼財務長艾爾·斯旺森，還有其他管理團隊成員主持。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Willie.

這樣，我就把電話交給威利了。

Thank you, Blake, and good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us. Earlier this morning, we reported solid third quarter adjusted EBITDA attributable to Plains of $669 million, which Al will cover in more detail. It's an exciting time for Plains as we continue our multiyear strategy of building the premier North American pure-play crude midstream company. Over the past few years, our team has successfully executed on our strategy by meaningfully lowering our leverage profile, maximizing free cash flow and optimizing across our broad system, all while remaining capital disciplined and returning cash to our unitholders through meeting and beating our targeted annual distribution increases.

謝謝你，布萊克，大家早安。謝謝您的參與。今天早些時候，我們公佈了Plains公司第三季調整後EBITDA為6.69億美元，Al將對此進行更詳細的介紹。對 Plains 來說，這是一個令人興奮的時刻，我們將繼續推動多年策略，打造北美首屈一指的純原油中游公司。過去幾年，我們的團隊成功地執行了我們的策略，大幅降低了槓桿率，最大限度地提高了自由現金流，並優化了我們整個系統的運作，同時保持了資本紀律，並通過達到並超過我們設定的年度分紅增長目標，將現金返還給了我們的單位持有人。

With the pending sale of our NGL assets expected to close early next year, our portfolio will become even more crude-focused with a more stable and durable cash flow stream. As discussed on our previous calls, the NGL sale is a win-win transaction at an attractive valuation for Plains and our capital allocation priority has been to redeploy those proceeds to a strong return, DCF accretive bolt-ons while staying within our targeted leverage range over the long term.

隨著我們 NGL 資產的出售預計將於明年初完成，我們的投資組合將更加專注於原油，並擁有更穩定、更持久的現金流。正如我們在之前的電話會議中所討論的，NGL 出售對於 Plains 來說是一筆雙贏的交易，估值也很有吸引力。我們的資本配置重點是將這些收益重新部署到回報強勁、可實現 DCF 增值的附加項目中，同時長期維持在我們目標槓桿率範圍內。

To that point, we're pleased to announce that we now own and operate 100% of the entity that owns the EPIC Crude pipeline. This past Friday, we closed on the previously announced acquisition of a 55% non-operated interest in EPIC from Diamondback and Kinetik. And on Monday this week, we signed and closed the acquisition of the remaining 45% operating interest in EPIC Crude Holdings from a portfolio company of Ares private equity funds for approximately $1.3 billion inclusive of approximately $500 million of debt. As part of the 45% transaction, Plains has also agreed to a potential earn-out payment of up to $157 million tied to the sanctioning of potential expansions of the pipeline system by year-end 2028.

在此，我們很高興地宣布，我們現在擁有並經營擁有 EPIC 原油管道的實體 100% 的股份。上週五，我們完成了先前宣布的從 Diamondback 和 Kinetik 手中收購 EPIC 55% 非營運權益的交易。本週一，我們簽署並完成了對 Ares 私募股權基金旗下投資組合公司持有的 EPIC Crude Holdings 剩餘 45% 營運權益的收購，交易金額約為 13 億美元，其中包括約 5 億美元的債務。作為 45% 交易的一部分，Plains 還同意，如果管道系統的潛在擴建計劃在 2028 年底前獲得批准，則將獲得高達 1.57 億美元的潛在收益支付。

The EPIC acquisitions are summarized on slide 4. These transactions are highly synergistic and very strategic to Plains existing footprint and are expected to generate a mid-teens unlevered return. We anticipate a 2026 adjusted EBITDA multiple of approximately 10x which we expect to improve meaningfully over the next few years.

EPIC 收購情況總結在第 4 張投影片。這些交易具有高度協同效應，對 Plains 現有的業務佈局具有非常重要的戰略意義，預計將產生十幾個百分點的無槓桿回報。我們預計 2026 年調整後 EBITDA 倍數約為 10 倍，並預計未來幾年將有顯著改善。

Going forward, we intend to rename the pipeline system, Cactus III, which complements our integrated Cactus long-haul system that we have operated for years. The acquisition of the remaining 45% of EPIC gives us the opportunity to assume operatorship, which accelerates and increases the synergy capture of the full pipeline, including meaningful cost, capital and operational synergies while improving the takeaway flexibility of our crude system to meet customer needs.

展望未來，我們計劃將該管道系統更名為 Cactus III，以補充我們經營多年的 Cactus 長途綜合管道系統。收購 EPIC 剩餘的 45% 股份使我們有機會承擔營運責任，這將加速並提高整個管道的協同效應，包括有意義的成本、資本和營運協同效應，同時提高我們原油系統的外輸靈活性，以滿足客戶需求。

Near term, we're poised to benefit from contractual step-ups, reduced operating costs and overhead, quality optimization opportunities and utilizing the broader plans, Permian and Eagle Ford asset base to drive volumes to EPIC crudes downstream assets. Longer term, the potential expansion capacity of the system provide Plains and its customers with additional egress to the US Gulf Coast and will generate strong returns as demand dictates further expansions.

短期內，我們將受益於合約增幅、營運成本和管理費用的降低、品質優化機會，並利用更廣泛的計劃、二疊紀盆地和鷹灘盆地的資產基礎來推動 EPIC 原油下游資產的產量。從長遠來看，該系統的潛在擴張能力將為 Plains 及其客戶提供更多通往美國墨西哥灣沿岸的出口，並且隨著需求的進一步擴張，將產生強勁的回報。

Regarding the divestiture of our NGL business, we're on schedule to complete the transaction by the end of the first-quarter 2026. We have received two of the three required regulatory approvals, US Hart-Scott-Rodino and the Canadian Transportation Act while the approval process for the Canadian Competition Bureau is ongoing.

關於剝離我們的 NGL 業務，我們正按計劃推進，預計將於 2026 年第一季末完成交易。我們已經獲得了三個必要監管批准中的兩個，即美國的《哈特-斯科特-羅迪諾法案》和加拿大的《運輸法》，而加拿大競爭局的批准程序仍在進行中。

Importantly, the majority of the proceeds to be received upon closing of the divestiture have effectively been redeployed through our acquisition of EPIC, which will result in an accretive and more durable cash flow stream. Due to timing differences between the closing of the transactions, we do anticipate our leverage ratio will temporarily exceed the upper end of our target range until the NGL divestiture is finalized, at which point we expect our leverage ratio to trend towards the midpoint of our target range of 3.5.

重要的是，剝離完成後收到的大部分收益已透過我們收購 EPIC 有效地重新部署，這將產生增加且更持久的現金流。由於交易完成的時間存在差異，我們預計在 NGL 資產剝離完成之前，我們的槓桿率將暫時超過目標範圍的上限；屆時，我們預計我們的槓桿率將趨向於 3.5 的目標範圍的中點。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Al to cover our quarterly performance and financial matters.

接下來，我將把電話交給艾爾，讓他來報告我們的季度業績和財務狀況。

Thank you, Willie. For the third quarter, we reported Crude Oil segment adjusted EBITDA of $593 million, which benefited from higher volumes and contributions from recently completed bolt-on acquisitions as well as the impact of annual tariff escalation. This was partially offset by certain Permian long-haul contract rates resetting to market in September. Please note that the fourth quarter should serve as a baseline, representing the full impact of lower contract rates out of the Permian.

謝謝你，威利。第三季度，原油業務調整後 EBITDA 為 5.93 億美元，這得益於銷售量增加、近期完成的補充收購以及年度關稅上調的影響。9 月份，部分二疊紀盆地長途運輸合約價格恢復市場水平，部分抵消了上述影響。請注意，第四季應作為基準，代表二疊紀盆地合約價格下降的全部影響。

Moving to the NGL segment, we reported adjusted EBITDA of $70 million which was down sequentially due to lower sales volume tied to temporary downtime on a third-party transmission system as well as the start-up of LNG Canada. Slides 5 and 6 in today's presentation contain adjusted EBITDA walks that provide additional details on our performance.

再來看 NGL 業務板塊，我們報告調整後的 EBITDA 為 7000 萬美元，環比下降，原因是第三方輸送系統暫時停機導致銷量下降，以及加拿大液化天然氣公司 (LNG Canada) 的投資。今天簡報中的第 5 頁和第 6 頁包含調整後的 EBITDA 計算過程，提供了有關我們業績的更多詳細資訊。

We are narrowing our full year 2025 adjusted EBITDA guidance range to $2.84 billion to $2.89 billion to reflect lower realized crude prices and contributions from our completed acquisition of EPIC. Please note the benefit from EPIC for the remainder of the year is forecast to be approximately $40 million. A summary of our 2025 guidance metrics and assumptions are located on slide 7. Overall capital spending remains consistent with our prior forecast.

我們將 2025 年全年調整後 EBITDA 預期範圍縮小至 28.4 億美元至 28.9 億美元，以反映原油實際價格下降以及我們完成對 EPIC 的收購所帶來的貢獻。請注意，預計 EPIC 在今年剩餘時間內的收益約為 4,000 萬美元。我們的 2025 年指導指標和假設的摘要位於第 7 頁。整體資本支出與我們先前的預測保持一致。

Growth capital spending for the year is expected to be approximately $490 million. The $15 million increase is primarily associated with new lease connects and capital associated with acquisitions, while the 2025 maintenance capital is trending closer to $215 million, representing a $15 million decrease from our last forecast. In September, we issued $1.25 billion of senior unsecured notes consisting of a $700 million due in 2031 at a rate of 4.7% and $550 million due in 2036 at a rate of 5.6%. Proceeds were used to repay the senior notes that matured in October and to partially fund the EPIC acquisitions.

預計本年度成長資本支出約為 4.9 億美元。1500 萬美元的成長主要與新的租賃連接和收購相關的資本有關，而 2025 年的維護資本預計將接近 2.15 億美元，比我們上次的預測減少了 1500 萬美元。9 月，我們發行了 12.5 億美元的優先無抵押票據，其中 7 億美元將於 2031 年到期，利率為 4.7%；5.5 億美元將於 2036 年到期，利率為 5.6%。所得款項用於償還 10 月到期的優先票據，並部分用於 EPIC 的收購。

With that, I'll turn the call back to Willie.

這樣，我就把電話轉回威利了。

Thanks, Al. We've made significant progress on our journey of becoming the premier crude midstream provider over the last several months. And we believe there are significant opportunities to continue to create value for unitholders through initiatives that are within our control.

謝謝你，艾爾。在過去的幾個月裡，我們在成為首屈一指的原油中游服務供應商的道路上取得了重大進展。我們相信，透過我們可控制範圍內的舉措，我們仍有很大的機會繼續為單位持有者創造價值。

As seen on slide 8, the combined benefits from bolt-on M&A, synergy capture and streamlining efforts across the broader organization will provide Plains self-help tailwinds through the near-term volatility. As part of our 2026 guidance in February, we intend to share additional details on these initiatives.

如投影片 8 所示，透過附加併購、協同效應取得以及整個組織的精簡工作，Plains 將獲得綜合收益，從而在短期波動中為 Plains 提供自助助力。作為我們 2026 年 2 月發布的指導方針的一部分，我們計劃分享有關這些舉措的更多細節。

Our strategy centers on the view that crude oil remain essential to global energy and society for decades as outlined on slide 9. And despite near-term volatility, we remain confident in our ability to navigate current market dynamics. And we expect improving fundamentals longer term, anchored by continued global energy demand growth, coupled with underinvestment in organic oil supply growth in diminishing OPEC+ spare capacity.

我們的策略核心觀點是，原油在未來幾十年內對全球能源和社會仍然至關重要，如投影片 9 所示。儘管短期內市場波動較大，但我們仍然有信心應對當前的市場動態。我們預計長期基本面將有所改善，這主要得益於全球能源需求的持續成長，以及歐佩克+剩餘產能減少導致有機石油供應成長投資不足。

I'll now turn over the call to Blake to help lead us into Q&A.

現在我將把電話交給布萊克，由他來帶領我們進入問答環節。

Thanks, Willie. (Event Instructions) The IR team is also available after the call to address any additional questions. Andrea, we're ready to open up the call for questions, please.

謝謝你，威利。（活動說明）IR 團隊在通話結束後也可解答任何其他問題。安德里亞，現在可以開始接受提問了。

(Operator Instructions) Michael Blum, Wells Fargo.

（操作員說明）邁克爾布魯姆，富國銀行。

Wanted to ask on the EPIC deal. Can you give us a little more detail on the synergy capture? How much of that is going to be cost savings versus commercial synergies? And where do you see the time line? Will you capture those synergies and then reach that mid-teens return?

想問一下關於EPIC交易的事。能詳細介紹一下綜效的取得方式嗎？其中有多少是成本節約，又有多少是商業綜效？你在哪裡看到時間軸？你能否抓住這些協同效應，從而實現十幾個百分點的回報率？

Michael, this is Willie. First thing I want to do is I want to complement our team. If you think about these transactions, these are never perfect timing and they're hard to do. And we were able to do the two portions, and particularly with the 45% just announced, it gives us the ability to have more control over every question that you asked. I would also refer you to slide 4. And if you look at the map and you see how integrated it is with the system, I think that helps illustrate the number of ways that we can win.

邁克爾，這是威利。我首先想做的就是為我們的團隊做出貢獻。仔細想想這些交易，時機從來都不是完美的，而且很難做到。我們能夠完成這兩個部分，特別是剛剛宣布的 45% 的撥款，這讓我們能夠更好地控制你們提出的每一個問題。我還想請您參考第4張投影片。如果你看一下地圖，你會發現它與系統的整合程度很高，我認為這有助於說明我們獲勝的方式有很多種。

There are a lot of ways we can do this. There's a lot of cost structure savings. There's overhead savings and a lot of this will be immediate, and we'll be able to capture it in 2026. And if you think about the expansion opportunities, it's not one step change function on expansion because we operate it, we'll be able to dictate partial expansions as we go and whatever market demands will be. So there's a lot of different ways to win, and it's not simply the expansion. And I would tell you, a good portion of it is the cost synergies, capital synergies and integration with our existing systems.

有很多方法可以做到這一點。這樣可以節省很多成本。這樣可以節省開支，而且許多好處都能立即顯現，我們將在 2026 年實現這些收益。如果你考慮擴張機會，這並非一步到位的擴張，因為我們是營運方，我們可以根據市場需求，逐步進行局部擴張。所以獲勝的方式有很多種，不只是擴張。我可以告訴你，其中很大一部分原因是成本協同效應、資本協同效應以及與我們現有系統的整合。

Jeremy, do you have anything to add to that?

傑瑞米，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

No. Just from a timing standpoint, I think Willie hit a lot of it. But just the compression in multiple to next year is step-ups in contract and cost savings. So things that are almost immediate and contractual. Beyond that, that is all the things Willie talked about.

不。從時機把握的角度來看，我認為威利擊中了很多球。但僅僅是明年合約金額的壓縮和成本節約就足以帶來收益。所以，那些幾乎是即時生效且具有合約約束力的事情。除此之外，威利就說了這些事。

So we're very confident in the ability to compress this over time and part synergies, but part expansions and just recognize we sell a substantial amount of barrels at Midland, and we can move those barrels. We have demand from customers to go to the docs, the docs are willing to expand and ready to expand. There's additional markets that we're not connected to in Corpus that we can move barrels from Midland today that we sell into that pipeline.

因此，我們非常有信心隨著時間的推移，透過部分協同效應和部分擴張來壓縮這一進程，並意識到我們在米德蘭銷售了大量的桶裝酒，我們可以銷售這些桶裝酒。我們有來自客戶的需求去診所，診所也願意並且已經做好了擴張的準備。在科珀斯克里斯蒂，我們還有一些尚未連接的市場，我們可以將今天從米德蘭運出的原油透過這條管道出售。

So as Willie mentioned, we can expand the pipeline system, we can capture cost synergies, there's a lot we can do immediately, and that's contractual. That will compress to the 10x we announced and the compression beyond that, a lot of that's in our control as well.

正如威利所提到的，我們可以擴大管道系統，我們可以實現成本協同效應，我們可以立即做很多事情，而這都是合約規定的。這將壓縮到我們宣布的 10 倍，而進一步的壓縮，很多也在我們的控制範圍內。

And remember, Michael, we operate in that quarter, right? Hence, the Cactus III. So it's not that we have to learn new ways of doing business. This really fits hand in glove with our existing system.

記住，邁克爾，我們的業務就在那個季度，對吧？因此，仙人掌 III。所以，這並不是說我們必須學習新的經營方式。這與我們現有的系統完美契合。

Great. Second question, just with your -- the sale of your Canadian NGL business and now this EPIC acquisition, can you just you refresh us on your expectations for capital return and whether this extends the runway now to deliver the outsized distribution growth you've been providing now for a while?

偉大的。第二個問題，關於您出售加拿大 NGL 業務以及現在收購 EPIC，您能否簡要說明一下您對資本回報的預期，以及這是否能延長您實現目前為止一直保持的超大分紅增長的期限？

Michael, this is Al. Yes, our view is that we will continue to increase distributions by $0.15 until we hit our targeted coverage. The year where we're transacting here, part of it will depend on when does the NGL sales close. But we expect to continue to grow the company in 2026, 2027 and beyond. Again, once we hit covered -- our target coverage level, we will revert back to a DCF growth concept.

邁克爾，我是艾爾。是的，我們的觀點是，我們將繼續增加每次0.15美元的分配額，直到達到我們設定的目標覆蓋範圍。在我們進行交易的這一年裡，部分結果將取決於天然氣液銷售何時完成。但我們預計公司將在 2026 年、2027 年及以後繼續成長。再次強調，一旦我們達到覆蓋率目標——我們的目標覆蓋率水平，我們將恢復採用 DCF 成長概念。

But again, we expect to be able to grow again, if you think of the embedded growth in EPIC from today through next year, that's pretty significant. And again, as that multiple kind of compresses from 10% to 15% unlevered, we see significant growth on this asset. So really no change in our approach there.

但是，我們預計能夠再次成長，考慮到 EPIC 從現在到明年蘊含的成長潛力，這相當可觀。再次強調，隨著無槓桿率從 10% 壓縮到 15%，我們看到該資產實現了顯著增長。所以，我們的做法其實沒有任何改變。

Michael, this is Willie again. We've got quite a bit to digest here. So I think what you can see is we'll be looking -- we continue to look at a lot of things. But if we were to transact on things, they'd likely be smaller bolt-ons that fit into the system as we've talked before. We've got plenty of things to get accomplished here over the next six months.

麥可，我是威利。我們需要消化的資訊量相當大。所以我覺得大家可以看到，我們會繼續關注很多事情。但如果我們真的要進行交易，它們很可能是一些較小的附加元件，可以像我們之前討論的那樣融入系統中。在接下來的六個月裡，我們有很多事情要做。

Keith Stanley, Wolfe Research.

Keith Stanley，Wolfe Research。

I want to follow up on the distribution question first that Michael just asked. So Al, on your answer, you referenced how there's some noise potentially next year related to the Canadian NGL sales. So to the extent you weren't at the coverage threshold for a $0.15 increase next year because of timing factors related to that sale and redeployment of proceeds, would that impact how you look at the distribution? Or would you see through that and look more at kind of where the run rate DCF would be?

我想先回答一下麥可剛才提出的關於分佈的問題。所以，Al，在你的回答中，你提到明年加拿大天然氣凝液銷售方面可能會有一些波動。因此，如果由於與該項出售和收益重新部署相關的時效因素，導致您明年未能達到 0.15 美元增長的覆蓋門檻，這是否會影響您對分配的看法？或者你會看穿這一點，更專注於運行率 DCF 的大致情況？

I'll take a shot and Willie jump in. Yes, clearly, we would look through noise to run rate as to how we would think about that. Clearly, if the NGL asset doesn't close early in the year and takes, we'll have more DCF. So some of that noise necessarily wouldn't be a limitation per se. But again, our view would be to look beyond the current year as we evaluate this. Clearly, management and the Board have robust discussions around distributions and what we're expecting to do. And clearly, the first call on that will be early January when we announce our distribution for February.

我先投籃，威利也加入進來。是的，很顯然，我們會忽略噪音，專注在運作率，以此來思考這個問題。顯然，如果 NGL 資產在年初未能完成交易，我們將有更多的 DCF。所以，其中一些噪音本身未必會構成限制。但是，我們再次強調，在評估這個問題時，應該著眼於今年以外的情況。顯然，管理階層和董事會就分配方案以及我們預期要採取的措施進行了深入討論。很顯然，第一個需要討論的時間是1月初，屆時我們將公佈2月份的分銷計劃。

And Keith, Willie here, you know our coverage target is 160% of DCF to coverage. So that gives us a little bit of flexibility. And as Al said, we always play for the long term. Our focus is return of cash to our unitholders. So I think a lot of that would play into it, and I would agree with everything that Al said.

基思，我是威利，你們知道我們的覆蓋率目標是 DCF 覆蓋率的 160%。這樣我們就有了一些彈性。正如艾爾所說，我們始終著眼於長遠發展。我們的重點是向單位持有人返還現金。所以我覺得很多因素都會影響結果，我完全同意艾爾說的。

The second question, going back to EPIC. Can you give some color on the duration of the contracts and how you would characterize rates on that pipeline relative to market? It sounds like 2026, there's somewhat of a recontracting benefit already that gets you to the 10x?

第二個問題，回到 EPIC。能否詳細說明合約期限，以及您如何評估該管道項目的費率與市場費率的比較？聽起來像是 2026 年，已經有一些重新簽約的優惠，可以讓你達到 10 倍的收益？

Sure, Keith. This is Jeremy. There's a substantial portion of the pipeline that's contracted for long term, and I believe that was announced in the restructuring last year that EPIC did. The balance of the pipe has medium duration contracts, we feel comfortable in our ability to work with those shippers to either extend those contracts or add new shippers to those contracts. We're just taking over this week, so it would be premature to talk about everything associated with it, but I'd say we like where we sit.

當然可以，基斯。這是傑里米。該管道的很大一部分已經簽訂了長期合同，我相信這在 EPIC 去年進行的重組中已經宣布過了。其餘管道運輸合約期限為中等，我們有信心與這些托運人合作，延長這些合約或在這些合約中添加新的托運人。我們本週才剛接手，所以現在談論所有相關的事情還為時過早，但我想說我們對目前的狀況感到滿意。

The rates are at current market rates, they're not meaningfully above market rates, which means longer term, we expect this to be a stable and growing cash flow profile, which at least to Michael's question earlier about DCF accretion between the sale of the NGL in this business? We think that will be substantially DCF accretive over time the trade of those two assets.

利率與當前市場利率持平，並未顯著高於市場利率，這意味著從長遠來看，我們預計這將是一個穩定且不斷增長的現金流狀況，至少可以回答邁克爾之前提出的關於出售該業務中的 NGL 後 DCF 增值的問題？我們認為，從長遠來看，這兩筆資產的交易將大幅提升現金流折現收益。

And Keith, I might just help. I think publicly and previously, we said the portfolio had a weighted average duration through 2028 with EPIC, this should extend that out to October of '29 in case that's helpful.

基思，我或許能幫上忙。我認為，我們先前公開表示，該投資組合的加權平均久期到 2028 年（包括 EPIC），如果這有幫助的話，這將把久期延長至 2029 年 10 月。

A.J. O'Donnell, TPH.

A.J. O'Donnell，TPH。

I just wanted to talk -- go back to EPIC. And now with three pipelines in the Permian, Corpus and Christi corridor under your control, how are you thinking about portfolio optimization and maybe like what kind of opportunities there are to move flows across your pipelines and/or reduce operating costs on the three assets?

我只是想談談——回到EPIC。現在，您控制著二疊紀盆地、科珀斯克里斯蒂走廊的三條管道，您是如何考慮投資組合優化的？您認為有哪些機會可以調整管道間的流量，以及降低這三項資產的營運成本？

A.J., this is Jeremy. Great question. All of the above, and it all depends on market conditions, right? So as you -- as the pipes get tighter or looser, you're going to do different things. So you can obviously optimize operating costs, variable costs across the pipeline system.

A.J.，我是傑瑞米。問得好。以上所有因素，最終都取決於市場狀況，對嗎？所以，隨著管道變緊或變鬆，你會採取不同的措施。因此，顯然可以優化整個管道系統的營運成本和可變成本。

You can offer flexibility across the pipeline system between common shippers to access more markets and push barrels into different connections, you can optimize capital across the system, you're going to optimize tankage. There's a lot you can do with -- and Chris' team is going to do a great job and they've been actively involved in the diligence system of the system.

您可以為普通托運人之間的管道系統提供靈活性，以便進入更多市場並將桶裝原油輸送到不同的連接點，您可以優化整個系統的資本，您將優化儲罐。你可以做很多事情——克里斯的團隊將會出色地完成工作，他們一直積極參與該系統的盡職調查。

So I think we're very excited with that. We're just scratching the surface. It extends beyond the long-haul business. This is optimizing flows through the POP JV to get to the origins at quality in all those locations as well as in the Eagle Ford. So this touches hundreds of miles across multiple assets for us.

所以我覺得我們對此感到非常興奮。我們只是觸及了皮毛。它的影響範圍不僅限於長途運輸業務。這是透過 POP 合資企業優化流程，以確保所有這些地點以及 Eagle Ford 地區的產品品質。所以這涉及到我們多個資產，綿延數百英里。

So we think there's a lot of ways even on the operating costs aside from the initial cost reductions we'll see to optimize our costs across the system, our quality optimization and connectivity across the system and flexibility for our customers. So the same thing that's allowed us to grow a strong position in the gathering business in the Permian. We can apply all those same things and extend the runway from the gathering business through the long-haul business to the docs, to the markets at Corpus and throughout the Eagle Ford as well.

因此，我們認為除了最初的成本削減之外，還有很多方法可以降低營運成本，從而優化整個系統的成本、品質優化、系統連接性以及為客戶提供的靈活性。正是同樣的因素，讓我們在二疊紀盆地的集輸業務中建立了強大的地位。我們可以應用所有這些相同的方法，並將業務範圍從集散業務擴展到長途運輸業務，再到碼頭、科珀斯克里斯蒂市場以及整個鷹灘地區。

Okay. Great. Appreciate that detail. Maybe just one more on EPIC and thinking about potential capital requirements to achieve some of these synergies excluding larger projects such as powering the pipeline up to the full design capacity. What kind of additional capital requirements do you see for making these connections either in the Eagle Ford or downstream? Are they relatively small in nature? Or could we potentially see CapEx moving a little bit higher next year beyond the normal range?

好的。偉大的。我很欣賞這個細節。或許可以再討論一下 EPIC 項目，並考慮實現其中一些協同效應的潛在資金需求，但不包括將管道輸送至滿負荷設計產能等大型項目。您認為在鷹福特頁岩氣田或下游地區建立這些連結需要哪些額外的資金？它們體型相對較小嗎？或者我們有可能看到明年資本支出略高於正常水準？

AJ, this is Chris Chandler. I'll take that. The short answer is the investments for the activities you talked about are expected to be on the modest side. Our near-term capital spending related to EPIC is certainly going to be directed towards that synergy capture. I think about connecting the systems throughout whether it's at the origin for supply optionality or throughout for our operating and quality optimization.

AJ，我是克里斯錢德勒。我接受。簡而言之，您提到的這些活動的投資預計不會太多。我們近期與 EPIC 相關的資本支出肯定會用於實現協同效應。我認為應該將各個系統連接起來，無論是從源頭實現供應選擇，還是從營運和品質優化入手。

So we see some good opportunities there, but it won't be significant from a capital standpoint. The update to the guidance we gave in for 2025, certainly incorporates what I just mentioned there and our guidance in '26 and beyond, we'll capture that as well, but we don't expect it to be significant.

所以我們看到了一些不錯的機會，但從資本角度來看，這不會是個巨大的機會。我們對 2025 年發布的指導意見進行了更新，當然包含了我剛才提到的內容，我們對 2026 年及以後的指導意見也會予以考慮，但我們預計不會有太大變化。

Brandon Bingham, Scotiabank.

Brandon Bingham，加拿大豐業銀行。

Just wanted to maybe look into 2026 a little bit, if we could. Operator commentary so far this earnings season seems a little mixed with some guys talking about flat crude and others still blown and going to a certain extent and everything in between. So just wondering what you guys are hearing currently you're seeing from your customer base and how that fits with this year's expected Permian growth. And it also looks like the Permian volumes guide is implying a decent step up in 4Q. So just anything that you guys can comment on as we set up for 2026?

如果可以的話，我想稍微了解一下2026年的狀況。到目前為止，本財報季營運商的評論似乎有些分歧，有些人認為原油價格將保持平穩，而另一些人則仍然認為原油價格會上漲並達到一定程度，各種觀點都有。所以我想知道你們目前從客戶群中聽到了什麼回饋，以及這與今年預期的二疊紀盆地成長情況有何關聯。而且，二疊紀盆地產量指南似乎也暗示第四季產量將大幅成長。那麼，各位對於我們籌備2026年的工作有什麼建議嗎？

Brandon, let me start with that. For the reasons that you described, it's really hard to get a good gauge on 2026. My observations have been, you've got two of the large majors that are very, very steady and continuing to grow.

布蘭登，我就從這裡開始。正如你所描述的那樣，要準確預測 2026 年的情況確實很難。我的觀察是，目前有兩家大型科技公司發展非常穩定，而且持續成長。

There's others that have taken the stop light approach and maybe a little more hesitant. I think it's a very difficult call on where oil prices are near term. Longer term, we're very bullish. The Permian, we're very bullish. Canada, we're very bullish on North American oil growth. But I think there's a lot of signals that have to play out through that.

還有一些人採取了類似紅綠燈的方式，可能顯得有些猶豫。我認為很難預測近期油價走勢。從長遠來看，我們非常看好。我們非常看好二疊紀盆地。加拿大方面，我們非常看好北美石油市場的成長。但我認為這其中有許多訊號需要逐步顯現。

We've been -- if you think about where our portfolio is, I made a comment in my -- in the prepared comments, you think about global demand continuing to grow, which I do believe that it will because it's going to be -- we need oil for all the different reasons that we all know to create quality of life. But the thing that I've been watching for quite some time is drill bit or organic investment. And if you look at the trends, these are not my numbers, but other people that study this, if you look at the last trend organically, we're not replacing reserves, right? It's below 100%. And you can't do that for an extended period of time.

我們已經——如果你想想我們的投資組合在哪裡，我在——在我準備好的評論中提到過，你會想到全球需求將繼續增長，我確實相信它會增長，因為我們需要石油，原因有很多，我們都知道，它能創造生活品質。但我一直關注的是鑽井平台或有機投資。如果你看看這些趨勢（這些不是我的數據，而是其他研究這個問題的人的數據），如果你從自然的角度觀察最近的趨勢，你會發現我們並沒有補充儲備，對吧？低於100%。而且你不能長時間這樣做。

So that's why we're very, very bullish on North American oil sources. And I think the whole restructuring of the flows of trade from barrels going into the North America to leaving is going to continue. And I would say we're in mid-innings on the efficiency of being able to do that with oil. Certainly, we're doing it not Plains is doing it, but you've got NGLs, you've got gas, all that is an export story, but I think there's a lot of opportunities to win going forward.

所以這就是為什麼我們非常非常看好北美石油資源的原因。我認為，從原油流入北美到原油流出北美的整個貿易流向的重組將會持續下去。我認為，我們目前正處於利用石油提高效率的中期階段。當然，是我們正在做這件事，而不是 Plains 公司在做，但是，天然氣凝析液、天然氣，所有這些都是出口業務，但我認為未來有很多獲勝的機會。

But calling 2026 is a really tough one, and that's why we have decided to go to February to be able to give you the best intelligence that we've got. So sorry for the long-winded answer, but hopefully, it lets you know how we feel about it and where we fit in the long-range outlook.

但預測 2026 年的天氣真的很難，所以我們決定提前到二月份，以便能夠為您提供我們掌握的最佳情報。很抱歉回答得這麼長，但希望這能讓您了解我們對此的感受以及我們在長遠規劃中的定位。

Yes. Very helpful. And then just a quick one. The sales proceeds are effectively utilized now for the most part. So could you just maybe discuss your thoughts on fresh retirement and how it fits into the capital allocation strategy moving forward and just kind of what the pecking order is?

是的。很有幫助。然後就快速地來一個。目前，大部分銷售所得都得到了有效利用。那麼，您能否談談您對新退休的看法，以及它如何融入未來的資本配置策略，以及其中的優先順序是什麼？

I think you discussed a little bit in your prepared remarks, but just any updates there?

我想您在準備好的發言稿中已經稍微談到了一些，但還有什麼新的進展嗎？

Sure. This is Al. Yes, since we announced the sale in June, we've now deployed $3.1 billion via the acquisitions, the BridgeTex acquisition earlier in the year are now $2.9 billion here. So effectively, the proceeds will go to debt reduction.

當然。這是艾爾。是的，自從我們在 6 月宣佈出售以來，我們已經透過收購投入了 31 億美元，其中今年稍早收購 BridgeTex 的金額現在為 29 億美元。因此，實際所得款項將用於償還債務。

That will allow us to get to roughly the midpoint of our leverage range, shift ahead after closing and reducing debt and being at the midpoint, then we'll go back to our normal capital allocation, which we'll look at -- return cash to shareholders through distribution as well as bolt-on acquisitions, retirement of the (inaudible) and/or opportunistic common repurchases. But quite honestly, when you're sitting at the midpoint of the leverage range and still seeing potential opportunities to deploy capital with good returns, we'll be more biased towards looking at the bolt-ons at that point.

這將使我們能夠達到槓桿率範圍的大致中間點，在完成交易並減少債務後，我們將回到正常的資本配置，我們將考慮——透過分紅以及補充收購、註銷（聽不清）和/或機會性普通股回購向股東返還現金。但說實話，當你處於槓桿範圍的中點，並且仍然看到有潛在機會可以部署資本並獲得良好的回報時，我們會更傾向於關注此時的附加投資。

Sunil Sibal, Seaport Global.

Sunil Sibal，Seaport Global。

So just a quick one for me. Now that you transitioned to a pure-play crude. The DCF coverage ratio of 1.6x. Could you talk about that in terms of how you think about that in more medium to longer term with the new business mix?

我這邊就簡單問一個問題。現在你們已經轉型為純粹的原油生產商。DCF覆蓋率達1.6倍。您能否從中長期角度，結合新的業務組合，談談您對這一比率的看法？

Yes, Sunil, this is Willie. The coverage that we said on 160, you'll recall, I think it was late '22 that we announced that. It's something our Board looks at regularly, clearly without the NGL assets and in the more durable cash flow stream that we have, that's something else we can look at, but we still expect to be conservative in our approach. No change to the 160. But as we go forward, the way I would characterize it is we've got a lot more levers that we can work with as we go forward and get a better triangulation of what the future brings.

是的，蘇尼爾，這是威利。你們應該還記得，我們​​之前在 160 頻道播出的那期節目，我想我們是在 2022 年底宣布的。這是我們董事會經常考慮的問題，顯然，如果沒有 NGL 資產，在我們擁有更穩定的現金流的情況下，這也是我們可以考慮的另一個方面，但我們仍然希望採取保守的做法。160號沒有變化。但展望未來，我認為我們可以利用更多的手段來更好地掌握未來，從而更準確地預測未來發展趨勢。

Okay. And then when you look at your crude portfolio in Permian post the EPIC, could you talk a little bit about your operating leverage in the system vis-a-vis between your gathering and in-basin pipeline and the long haul. Where do you see the most operating leverage?

好的。那麼，在 EPIC 專案之後，當您審視您在二疊紀盆地的原油投資組合時，您能否談談您在系統中的營運槓桿作用，特別是您的集輸系統和盆地內​​管道以及長期運輸方面的情況？您認為最大的經營槓桿效應體現在哪裡？

Sure, Sunil, this is Jeremy. We've been working on contracting. You saw additional volumes on basin through the summer. We've done more contracting there. With the acquisition of BridgeTex with ONEOK, we've worked with them to put more barrels on that system.

當然，蘇尼爾，我是傑瑞米。我們一直在進行合約簽訂工作。整個夏季，盆地上的水量都有增加。我們在那裡承接了更多合約。透過 ONEOK 收購 BridgeTex，我們與他們合作，在該系統上增加了更多的槍管。

So we're executing with operating leverage now. So despite the falloff and contractual rates, we're backfilling that using operating leverage. We see a lot of opportunity to do that with EPIC. So that creates a new opportunity for us to use operating leverage in a substantial way, given that the rest of our system is heavily contracted.

所以我們現在正在利用經營槓桿來執行。因此，儘管存在下滑和合約利率，但我們正在利用營運槓桿來彌補損失。我們看到了利用 EPIC 實現這一目標的許多機會。鑑於我們系統的其他部分都已大量外包，這為我們提供了一個新的機會，讓我們能夠以實質的方式利用營運槓桿。

And then within the gathering system, there's a few underutilized laterals within the EPIC, we'll work with our POP JV partners to fill those up. So that creates capital avoidance opportunities and the ability to reduce operating expenses through it. So EPIC providing us additional operating leverage in the gathering, intrabasin and the long-haul system for us to then go fill through the long-term contracts we have on the gathering business. So we're excited about the pull-through benefits for the entire system.

然後，在集輸系統中，EPIC 內有一些未充分利用的側線，我們將與我們的 POP 合資夥伴合作，填補這些側線。這樣就創造了避免資本支出的機會，並且能夠透過這種方式降低營運成本。因此，EPIC 為我們提供了集輸、盆地內和長途運輸系統的額外營運槓桿，以便我們能夠透過我們在集輸業務方面簽訂的長期合約來滿足需求。因此，我們對整個系統所產生的連鎖效應感到非常興奮。

Sunil, this is Willie. You didn't asked about the Permian? I might make a broader comment on North America. When you think about the broader macro, there's been a lot of chatter in North America, particularly around Canadian crude, ability to get more Canadian crude to markets. And you're very aware of the expansion that has happened on or the new line of TMX going to the West.

蘇尼爾，這是威利。你沒問過關於二疊紀的事情嗎？我或許可以就北美問題發表一些更廣泛的評論。從宏觀角度來看，北美地區有很多討論，特別是關於加拿大原油以及如何將更多加拿大原油輸送到市場的討論。您非常清楚 TMX 向西延伸的新線路的擴張情況。

Canada has vast resources that could get produced if they are more export routes to markets. And when you think about our system and other systems across North America, one of the challenges are, if you can stitch all that together, there's a lot of ability to get to global markets, primarily by going south to the US.

加拿大擁有豐富的資源，如果能開闢更多出口市場管道，這些資源就能充分利用。當你思考我們的系統和北美其他地區的系統時，你會發現其中一個挑戰是，如果你能把所有這些整合起來，你就有很大的能力進入全球市場，主要是透過向南進入美國市場。

And as you know, we have a large pipeline called Capline that goes from Patoka down to the Gulf Coast that's got a lot of spare capacity to your point on leverage. So we haven't taken our eye off the ball of be able to solve a broader problem of oil that might be in the next inning or even the next inning to be able to get more energy and oil to global markets. And with the footprint we have, we've got a lot of flexibility around that also.

如您所知，我們有一條名為 Capline 的大型輸油管道，從帕託卡一直延伸到墨西哥灣沿岸，正如您所說，它有許多剩餘產能可以利用。因此，我們並沒有放鬆對石油這一更廣泛問題的關注，這個問題可能在下一局甚至下局就會出現，以便能夠向全球市場輸送更多的能源和石油。憑藉我們現有的規模，我們在這方面也擁有很大的靈活性。

(Operator Instructions) Jeremy Tonet, JPMorgan Securities.

（操作員說明）傑里米·托內特，摩根大通證券。

Just wanted to pick up with thoughts you might be able to share in 2026 and granted, as you said, with the Permian, it's too early to really have much specificity there. But just wondering at a high level outside the Permian for other basins that you're in, if you could provide any kind of high-level thoughts as far as direction of travel in volumes there over time, that would be helpful.

我只是想接著之前的想法，看看您在 2026 年可能會分享些什麼。當然，正如您所說，對於二疊紀而言，現在要做出許多具體的判斷還為時過早。但我想從宏觀角度了解二疊紀盆地以外的其他盆地，如果您能就這些盆地地質儲量隨時間推移的發展方向提供一些宏觀的看法，那將很有幫助。

Jeremy, what we've seen this year is a slight decline in the Rockies and Mid-Continent regions across the gathering assets, some in the Eagle Ford as well, modest. We see activity levels being able to sustain that. Some of that was -- you had significant growth in the DJ and Bakken from blowing down drilled uncompleted wells, that's out the system. So we see more stable production in the next year in those regions. And in the Permian, we see maintenance level activity for the short term, but we see significant leverage to increasing that.

傑瑞米，我們今年看到的是洛磯山脈和中大陸地區天然氣資產略有下降，鷹灘頁岩油田也有些下降，幅度不大。我們看到目前的活動水準能夠維持這種情況。其中一些原因是——由於炸毀了未完工的鑽井，導致 DJ 和 Bakken 地區的油氣產量大幅增長，這已經超出了系統範圍。因此，我們預計明年這些地區的生產將更加穩定。在二疊紀盆地，我們看到短期內活動水準將維持不變，但我們看到有很大的提升空間。

You've seen it, everybody is reducing capital, but maintaining production. So you can see through this fourth quarter so far in the earnings that efficiencies are there and the ability to drive, we see resource expansion in New Mexico and other locations. So longer term, it's giving us more confidence in the ability to grow the Permian and maintain the other basins at a lower breakeven price. So that gives us some confidence, but that's the near-term look.

你們也看到了，大家都在減少資本投入，但維持生產。因此，從第四季度目前的獲利情況可以看出，效率已經提高，並且有能力推動發展，我們看到新墨西哥州和其他地區的資源擴張。長遠來看，這讓我們更有信心發展二疊紀盆地，並以更低的損益平衡價格維持其他盆地的開採。這給了我們一些信心，但這只是短期展望。

Got it. That's helpful. And just a smaller question, if I could, on Keyera sale. How are you guys going about managing FX risk there given the volatility we're seeing in FX?

知道了。那很有幫助。如果可以的話，我還想問一個關於 Keyera 促銷活動的小問題。鑑於目前外匯市場的波動性，你們是如何管理外匯風險的？

We fully hedged that basically at the time of the transaction. So we did a deal contingent structure that effectively locked down the rate. And if for some reason the transaction didn't happen, we're not exposed to the adverse movement that could have happened.

我們在交易時基本上已經對此進行了充分對沖。因此，我們採用了一種交易條件結構，有效地鎖定了利率。如果因為某些原因交易沒有發生，我們也不會面臨可能發生的不利影響。

Manav Gupta, UBS.

瑞銀集團的馬納夫·古普塔。

So a quick follow-up. I think you answered it in a way, but I just wanted to follow up. There are some good deals out there, and you have been very prudent and very smart about these bolt-on deals. So I'm just trying to understand, if there is a good deal out there, which meets all your these criteria, even if you're slightly above the midpoint of your leverage targets, would you hold back or you probably are okay with moving towards the top end and closing on a good opportunity, we think should not be just let go just because you're slightly over the midpoint of leverage. If you could talk a little bit about that.

那麼，我再快速跟進。我覺得你已經回答了這個問題，但我還是想再補充一些資訊。市面上有很多不錯的優惠，你在這些附加優惠方面一直非常謹慎和精明。所以我想了解的是，如果有一個好機會，符合你所有的這些標準，即使你的槓桿目標略高於中點，你會按兵不動，還是會接受更高的槓桿目標，抓住這個好機會？我們認為，僅僅因為槓桿略高於中點就放棄，是不該有的。如果您能稍微談談這方面的話。

Yes, Manav, thanks for the question. Well, we always look for opportunities to grow the enterprise value. And I would like to think that our judgment would be good enough to be able to shift through what I would call short-term noise versus long-term noise. And if it was characterized as you did, it was something that met all of our thresholds was strategic with a high risk of being able to execute it, that's something we would absolutely consider.

是的，馬納夫，謝謝你的提問。我們始終在尋找提升企業價值的機會。我希望我們的判斷力夠好，能夠區分我所說的短期噪音和長期噪音。如果像你所描述的那樣，它符合我們所有的標準，具有戰略意義，但執行起來風險很高，那麼我們絕對會考慮。

And a quick follow-up on Keyera, what is the gating item here, if you could -- which needs to be done before the deal can be closed. If you could help us understand that a little better?

關於 Keyera，還有一個後續問題：能否請您解答一下，目前存在的瓶頸是什麼？ ——在交易完成前，需要完成哪些步驟？如果您能幫我們更能理解一下就好了？

Well, I wish I could help you understand it better as I'm not an expert in this, but it's the Canadian Competition Bureau in the process that they go through similar to our FTC HSR process which is ongoing.

我很希望我能幫助你更好地理解它，因為我不是這方面的專家，但這是加拿大競爭局正在進行的流程，類似於我們聯邦貿易委員會的HSR流程，目前正在進行中。

Jean Ann Salisbury, Bank of America.

Jean Ann Salisbury，美國銀行。

Just one for me. As you're considering whether or not to expand EPIC? Can you give us an update of the relative attractiveness of Houston and to Corpus for export. It seems like over the next few years, there are roll-offs on pipelines to both destinations that would be competing for recontracting. I know Corpus has historically been more desirable, but is that narrowing at all with the Houston Ship Channel expansion?

我只留一個。您正在考慮是否要擴展 EPIC 嗎？能否提供休士頓和科珀斯克里斯蒂在出口方面的相對吸引力的最新情況？未來幾年，通往這兩個目的地的輸油管似乎都會出現洩漏，而這些管道將會競相重新簽訂合約。我知道科珀斯克里斯蒂歷來更受歡迎，但隨著休士頓航道擴建，這種情況是否有所改變？

Jean Ann, this is Jeremy. I would say nothing has materially changed Certainly, both ports are competing. You've seen expansions of Corpus as well. The Ingleside dredging has been done. The channel has largely been dredged.

珍妮安，我是傑瑞米。我認為實質情況並沒有改變。當然，兩個港口都在競爭。你也看到了 Corpus 的擴張。英格爾賽德的疏浚工程已經完成。航道大部分已經疏浚完畢。

It's way more efficient than it's ever been. So for me, Corpus is getting more and more efficient, even more so than Houston from a large ship standpoint. But the quality differential is a big one, just because it's only Permian barrels touching the docs first, touching a lot of barrels that come from the Mid-Continent. So there's a quality benefit and the logistical benefit and that continues to hold the advantage. That's why you see the premium of it on the water at Corpus versus Houston.

它比以往任何時候都更有效率。所以在我看來，從大型船的角度來看，科珀斯克里斯蒂的效率越來越高，甚至比休士頓還要高。但品質差異很大，因為只有二疊紀盆地的桶子才能先接觸到碼頭，而碼頭上有許多來自美國中大陸的桶子。因此，它既有品質優勢，又有物流優勢，這使其繼續保持優勢。這就是為什麼在科珀斯克里斯蒂和休士頓，水上運動的溢價如此之高的原因。

And so pricing is also indicating the preference for Corpus over Houston.

因此，價格也表明人們更傾向於選擇科珀斯克里斯蒂而不是休士頓。

John Mackay, Goldman Sachs.

約翰麥凱，高盛集團。

Willie, I wanted to pick up on your comments around potential involvement on some incremental Canadian crude egress. Could you maybe just talk to us about what some of the moving pieces are? I know you don't have a formal project yet, but would love to hear a little bit more color on maybe what you guys are thinking?

威利，我想就你之前提到的可能參與加拿大原油逐步出口的問題發表一些看法。您能否跟我們談談其中的一些關鍵因素？我知道你們目前還沒有正式的項目，但我很想聽聽你們的具體想法？

Well, fundamentally, you've got resources that are trapped and you've got -- if you think about the Canadian down to the US Gulf Coast, you've got refiners that want to run that heavy barrel, and you've got different players with different strengths and weaknesses. There are some large long-haul lines out of Canada that could have expansion capacities. Then you get to the border, and there's a number of different options you can get barrels from the border to key hubs, and Patoka is one of them, and you've got a large unutilized capacity at Capline that could ultimately be a solution. That's not to say it's the only solution.

從根本上講，資源被困住了，而且——如果你想想從加拿大到美國墨西哥灣沿岸，你會發現煉油商想要開採那些重油桶，而不同的參與者各有優劣。加拿大有一些大型長途航線，可能具備擴容能力。然後你到達邊境，有很多不同的方法可以將桶子從邊境運送到主要樞紐，帕託卡就是其中之一，而且卡普林還有很大的未利用產能，這最終可能是一個解決方案。但這並不意味著這是唯一的解決辦法。

My point on this is really just to reinforce, when we talk about a midstream -- a crude-focused midstream business, this is exactly the things that we are looking at of how we might participate and being able to get low-cost, reliable solutions to additional markets without having to build a brand-new long-haul line from source to destination. Hopefully, that helps, John?

我的觀點其實只是想強調，當我們談論中游業務——以原油為中心的中游業務時，這正是我們正在考慮如何參與其中，以及如何在無需從源頭到目的地建設全新長途運輸線路的情況下，為更多市場提供低成本、可靠的解決方案。希望這能幫到你，約翰？

No, that's clear. And the second one will be quick, I think, for Al. Just on the EPIC debt, -- is that -- would you guys just expect to kind of refinance that at some point? Or could that be a, I guess, net use of cash from the Plains side?

不，這很清楚。我認為，對艾爾來說，第二個問題很快就會解決。就 EPIC 債務而言，你們是否打算在某個時候進行再融資？或者，我猜想，這會不會是平原地區資金的淨使用？

Yes. Our plan is -- the base plan was we assumed it. And so it's now ours. And our view was, depending on the timing of these closing and us being owning 100%, which happened obviously on the early track. Our view is to repay it with the proceeds from the NGL sale.

是的。我們的計劃是——基本計劃是我們假設的。所以現在它是我們的了。我們的觀點是，這取決於這些交易的完成時間，以及我們擁有 100% 的股份，而這顯然在早期就發生了。我們的想法是用天然氣凝液銷售所得來償還這筆債務。

So it will be going away. The question is how quickly -- our view will be now that we've closed and depending on how long we think if the NGL transaction doesn't close until maybe later in the first quarter, we might look to do a term loan up at the parent to -- and funnel the proceeds down to repay it earlier. The economics may support doing that. It's a function of how long -- how long the term loan needs to be out. So that's something we'll explore now that we can catch our breath a little bit after getting the thing signed up and closed.

所以它會消失的。問題在於速度——我們目前的看法是，既然交易已經完成，那麼根據我們認為 NGL 交易可能需要多長時間才能完成（如果 NGL 交易要到第一季晚些時候才能完成），我們可能會考慮向母公司提供定期貸款，並將所得款項用於提前償還貸款。從經濟角度來看，這樣做或許是可行的。這取決於期限——定期貸款需要償還多長時間。所以，在完成簽約和交易後，我們可以稍微喘口氣了，現在我們將探討這個問題。

I'm showing no further questions at this time. I'd now like to turn it back to management for closing remarks.

我目前沒有其他問題要問。現在我想把發言權交還給管理階層，請他們作總結發言。

Well, listen, everyone, thanks for joining us this morning. We'll look forward to giving you further updates and seeing you on the road in the near term. Have a great day.

好了，各位，感謝你們今天早上收看我們的節目。我們期待著向您提供更多最新消息，並希望在不久的將來與您在路上見面。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This concludes the program. You may now disconnect.

感謝您參加今天的會議。節目到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線了。