Bank Ozk (OZK) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Bank OZK fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

您好，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Bank OZK 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指令）

I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Jay Staley, Managing Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給今天的第一位發言者，投資者關係董事總經理傑伊·斯塔利 (Jay Staley)。請繼續。

Good morning. I'm Jay Staley, Managing Director of Investor Relations and Corporate Development for Bank OZK. Thank you for joining our call this morning and participating in our question-and-answer session. In today's Q&A session, we may make forward-looking statements about our expectations, estimates, and outlook for the future. Please refer to our earnings release, management comments, and other public filings for more information on the various factors and risks that may cause actual results or outcomes to vary from those projected in or implied by such forward-looking statements.

早安.我是 Jay Staley，Bank OZK 投資者關係和企業發展總經理。感謝您參加我們今天早上的電話會議並參與我們的問答環節。在今天的問答環節中，我們可能會對我們的期望、估計和未來的展望做出前瞻性的陳述。請參閱我們的收益報告、管理層評論和其他公開文件，以獲取有關可能導致實際結果與此類前瞻性陳述中預測或暗示的結果不同的各種因素和風險的更多資訊。

Joining me on the call to take your questions are George Gleason, Chairman and CEO; Brannon Hamblen, President; Tim Hicks, Chief Financial Officer; Cindy Wolfe, Chief Operating Officer; and Jake Munn, President, Corporate and Institutional Banking.

與我一起參加電話會議回答大家問題的還有董事長兼首席執行官喬治·格里森 (George Gleason)；布蘭農·漢布倫 (Brannon Hamblen)，總裁；蒂姆·希克斯 (Tim Hicks)，首席財務官；辛迪·沃爾夫 (Cindy Wolfe)，首席營運官；以及企業和機構銀行業務總裁傑克·芒恩（Jake Munn）。

We will now open up the lines for your questions. Let me now ask our operator, Marvin, to remind our listeners how to queue in for questions.

我們現在將開放熱線來回答你們的提問。現在，我請我們的接線生馬文提醒我們的聽眾如何排隊提問。

(Operator Instructions) Stephen Scouten, Piper Sandler.

（操作員說明）Stephen Scouten、Piper Sandler。

So I wanted to talk a little bit about growth trends and how you guys are thinking about this, the results of the handoff more to the CIB and Marine and RV and the growth diversification plan. It feels like you guys are a little bit ahead of schedule, at least as I was thinking about it. And as I look at figures 3 and 4, it looks like the trends in CIB in particular are pretty good. So I just wonder if you could talk more about that.

所以我想談談成長趨勢以及你們對此的看法，移交給 CIB、Marine 和 RV 的結果以及成長多元化計畫。感覺你們有點超前了，至少我是這麼認為的。當我看到圖 3 和圖 4 時，我發現 CIB 的趨勢尤其好。所以我想知道您是否可以進一步談論這個問題。

And I know your growth guidance for '25 is the same as it was last quarter. But again, just how you're feeling and how you think those trends could play out through the next couple of years as you continue to build out those teams?

我知道您對 25 年的成長預期與上個季度相同。但是，您感覺如何？當您繼續組建這些團隊時，您認為這些趨勢在未來幾年會如何發展？

I will tell you that we're pretty much on plan and in line with where we had hoped we would be. With that intro and that very executive summary, let me ask Jake Munn to comment on the CIB Group. That's probably going to be the largest contributor to our growth in 2025 and 2026.

我可以告訴你們，我們基本上按照計劃進行，並且符合我們的預期。透過該介紹和執行摘要，我想請傑克·芒恩 (Jake Munn) 對 CIB 集團發表評論。這可能是我們 2025 年和 2026 年成長的最大貢獻者。

So Jake, talk about that.

那麼傑克，談談這個吧。

CIB really took off this last quarter. It wasn't necessarily a surprise to us by any means. We're happy with the results that came through. But 2024 for CIB was really laying the foundation, getting the policy procedures, the underwriting templates, really our portfolio management operations foundation in place to start to really build and scale CIB as a whole across all those various originating business units.

CIB 在上個季度真正實現了起飛。無論如何，這對我們來說不一定是個驚喜。我們對目前的結果很滿意。但 2024 年對 CIB 來說確實奠定了基礎，獲得了政策程序、承保模板，實際上我們的投資組合管理營運基礎已經到位，開始真正構建和擴展整個 CIB，涵蓋所有這些不同的發起業務部門。

And so we were successful in doing so, partnering with our credit and risk partners and getting everything up and running. With that, we saw some great originations in the fourth quarter. We had a number of strong deals that actually slipped in the first quarter that we're excited about here on the horizon as well. But we view this as being relatively on target for what we were planning, and we're excited about the future, and we're optimistic about continued growth across those respective CIB business lines. We've got plans next year to really look out into the market and continue to grow.

我們成功地做到了這一點，與我們的信貸和風險合作夥伴合作，並使一切順利進行。由此，我們在第四季看到了一些偉大的創舉。我們在第一季達成了一些強勁的交易，但這些交易實際上有所下滑，我們對未來的前景也感到興奮。但我們認為這相對符合我們的計劃，我們對未來感到興奮，並且我們對各個 CIB 業務線的持續成長感到樂觀。我們計劃明年認真審視市場並繼續發展。

We're well positioned in our existing footprint from Arkansas and Texas to Florida and Georgia and the Carolinas. We view the bank's true footprint to be home to a myriad of strong manufacturing and distribution and industrial banking opportunities, driven really by a growing workforce there and favorable economic and pro-business tailwinds. You tie that to our rifled approach of prospecting and our focus on finding the best and the brightest talent from across the region, we feel very optimistic going into 2025 about continued growth across the CIB.

我們的現有業務範圍涵蓋從阿肯色州和德克薩斯州到佛羅裡達州和喬治亞州以及卡羅來納州，處於有​​利地位。我們認為，該銀行的真正足跡在於擁有許多強大的製造、分銷和工業銀行業務機會，而這實際上是受到當地不斷增長的勞動力以及有利的經濟和親商順風的推動。結合我們嚴謹的勘探方法和專注於在整個地區尋找最優秀、最聰明的人才，我們對 2025 年 CIB 的持續成長感到非常樂觀。

George, Brannon, anything to add there?

喬治、布蘭農，還有什麼要補充的嗎？

I think you covered it well. Brandon, you have comments?

我認為你已經闡述得很好了。布蘭登，您有什麼意見嗎？

No. I would just say I would agree with George and Jake that we are on target and just tell you that Jake and the guys that he has brought over are really top-shelf individuals, a phenomenal fit with our culture. And the way that they dovetailed in, I think, is part of the reason we've been so successful. But they're very well connected in the marketplace. The bank has been very focused on adding all the top talent that we can.

不。我只想說，我同意喬治和傑克的觀點，我們的目標已經實現，我還要告訴你們，傑克和他帶來的這些人都是真正優秀的人才，與我們的文化非常契合。我認為，它們的結合方式是我們如此成功的部分原因。但他們在市場上的人脈很廣。該銀行一直非常注重盡其所能引進頂尖人才。

As we've guided, you'll see expense growth next year around a lot of different areas, whether it be Cindy in the world of raising deposits, additional retail branches to fund what will be growth that Jake achieves with a good number of additional employees and additional business lines. So we're extremely excited about the handoff that we have achieved and where it's going to go in the future.

正如我們所引導的，明年你會看到許多不同領域的費用成長，無論是 Cindy 在籌集存款方面的支出，還是額外的零售分支機構，為 Jake 透過大量額外員工和額外業務線實現的成長提供資金。因此，我們對已實現的交接以及未來的發展感到非常興奮。

Got it. Really helpful. And then just as I'm thinking about the accounting of this handoff, isn't it natural what we saw this quarter as the unfunded book becomes, I think, it was like 12% CIB and RESG, the unfunded book percentage goes down, that could have a benefit on the loan loss reserves from an unfunded perspective and we could continue to see that dynamic play out just from an accounting perspective?

知道了。真的很有幫助。然後，就在我思考這筆交接的會計處理時，我們本季看到的未撥備帳簿變成了 12%，CIB 和 RESG，未撥備帳簿百分比下降，這難道不是很自然嗎？從未撥備的角度來看，這可能對貸款損失準備金有益，而且我們可以繼續從會計角度看到這種動態變化？

I mean, Stephen, this is Tim. I mean, certainly that's one component of the ACL build that we've had our growth in both funded and unfunded over the last, say, 10 quarters. Our view on the macro conditions is also a very, very big component of that as well. So multifactors, many factors go into the ACL provision and build, but that is one of them.

我的意思是，史蒂芬，這是提姆。我的意思是，這當然是 ACL 建設的一個組成部分，在過去的 10 個季度裡，我們在有資金和無資金的情況下都實現了成長。我們對宏觀狀況的看法也是其中非常非常重要的組成部分。因此，多因素、許多因素都會影響 ACL 的發展和構建，但這只是其中之一。

And I would like to comment that our CIB Group, our Community Banking Group, our Indirect RV Marine Group, all of our business lines have the same intense focus on credit quality that has been a hallmark of RESG and all of them operate under the philosophy credit is the top priority, nonnegotiable, profitability is the secondary consideration, and growth is a tertiary consideration. And Jake and his team pair that all the time back to us in their pipeline calls and their credit meetings and so forth, and they completely embrace that concept. Credit quality is paramount. Profitability is an important secondary, and if we get growth, great, and if we don't.

我想說的是，我們的 CIB 集團、社區銀行集團、間接 RV 海洋集團，我們所有的業務線都同樣高度重視信貸質量，這是 RESG 的標誌，並且所有業務線都秉承這樣的理念：信貸是首要任務，不容商榷，盈利能力是次要考慮因素，增長是第三位考慮因素。傑克和他的團隊在他們的通路電話和信貸會議等中始終將這一點回饋給我們，他們完全接受了這個概念。信用品質至關重要。獲利能力是次要的，如果我們實現了成長，那很好，否則就沒那麼重要。

With that said, the goal of CIB over the next number of years is to build a unit comparable in the non-real estate space to what we've built in RESG, both in quality, profitability, and size. So you commented, wow, we had a really good quarter of growth in CIB. Yes, we did. But these guys, they're just on the first steps of the journey of building that unit to be an equal partner with RESG in our company. And we expect RESG to continue to grow in future years, so that means these guys got a long runway and they're just getting started.

話雖如此，CIB 未來幾年的目標是在非房地產領域建立一個與我們在 RESG 所建的部門相當的部門，無論是品質、盈利能力還是規模。所以您評論說，哇，我們 CIB 本季的成長非常好。是的，我們做到了。但這些人，他們才剛開始建立這個部門，成為我們公司與 RESG 平等的合作夥伴。我們預計 RESG 在未來幾年將繼續成長，這意味著這些傢伙擁有很長的跑道，而且他們才剛起步。

Yeah, that's great. That's helpful, George. And that points me to my other question here is that the focus on credit. I mean, you had some really good updates quarter over quarter on special mention substandard. And one of the things I like that you guys lay out is this Figure 11, where you're talking about the modifications and extensions and some of the enhancements that you've gotten.

是的，太棒了。這很有幫助，喬治。這讓我想到我的另一個問題，那就是關注信貸。我的意思是，你們每季都在特別提及標準方面做出一些非常好的更新。我喜歡你們所展示的內容之一，那就是圖 11，其中你們討論了所做的修改、擴展和一些增強功能。

I mean, I know, look, in perfect world, you probably would love to not have to modify any loans, but that's just the reality of it. Can you talk about that mindset and why that's a good business practice and how that process works with your own equity capital partners?

我的意思是，我知道，在完美的世界中，您可能不希望修改任何貸款，但這就是現實。您能談談這種思維方式以及為什麼這是一種好的商業實踐以及這個過程如何與您自己的股權資本合作夥伴合作嗎？

Well, modifications, we view as a positive. If you're modifying the loan, you're collecting fees, we're not modifying the loans in a negative sense, and we're not lowering spreads, we're not advancing additional credit, we're not expanding our commitments, we're not lowering our floors. We don't do any of those negative things that are concessions to customers. Our modifications are the customers replenish reserves. The customers might pay down if we believe that's absolutely essential to the loan.

嗯，我們認為修改是正面的。如果你要修改貸款，你要收取費用，我們不會對貸款進行負面修改，我們不會降低利差，我們不會提供額外信貸，我們不會擴大我們的承諾，我們不會降低我們的下限。我們不會做任何對顧客做出讓步的負面事情。我們的修改是客戶補充儲備。如果我們認為這對於貸款絕對必要，客戶可能會償還貸款。

The customers pay a fee for those modifications. So we view modifications as a positive thing, not a negative thing. And you can see in the little tables that accompany that. We had some significant unscheduled paydowns in Q4, $52 million-plus. In connection with modifications, we reduced $41.8 million in unfunded commitments, collected $8.4 million in fees. Some of those fees were on short-term modifications that went straight to income.

客戶需要為這些修改支付一定費用。因此，我們認為修改是一件正面的事，而不是負面的事。您可以在隨附的小表中看到它。我們在第四季有一些重大的計劃外付款，超過 5200 萬美元。在修改方面，我們減少了 4,180 萬美元的未撥付承諾，收取了 840 萬美元的費用。其中一些費用是針對短期修改的，直接計入收入。

Some of those fees were on one year or longer modifications that are deferred over the life of the loan. We collected $38.8 million of additional reserves. All that on 58 modifications. We view those as very positive, and the numbers as far as additional reserves and so forth will look even better probably this quarter from this quarter's crop of modifications in Q1, so we view that as positive.

其中一些費用是針對一年或更長時間的修改而收取的，這些修改將在貸款期限內延期支付。我們收取了3880萬美元的額外儲備金。全部內容 58 項修改。我們認為這些都是非常積極的，而且從本季度第一季的一系列修改來看，額外儲備等方面的數字可能會在本季度看起來更好，所以我們認為這是積極的。

There has been a lot of effort in guys that are taking a negative thesis on our story to go out and try to do a map of projects that have been completed and study the leasing on those projects. And that is certainly a valid piece of information, but it's not the most controlling, most important piece of information. We've been super clear on this since the first time the Fed started raising rates in this cycle that we have made the statement that we expect our RESG sponsors and their capital partners will continue to support their properties if needed through times of economic stress. That includes higher interest rate until business and economic conditions and property performance normalized. And that has certainly been the case. So the question is not, gosh, did the building get built and do you have leases or not?

對我們的故事持負面看法的人付出了很多努力，他們嘗試繪製已完成項目的地圖並研究這些項目的租賃情況。這當然是個有效的訊息，但它並不是最具控制力、最重要的訊息。自從聯準會在本週期首次開始升息以來，我們一直非常清楚這一點，我們已經發表聲明，我們預計我們的 RESG 發起人及其資本合作夥伴將在經濟壓力時期繼續為他們的資產提供支持。這包括提高利率，直到商業和經濟狀況以及房地產表現恢復正常。事實也確實如此。所以問題不是，天哪，這樓建好了嗎？有沒有租約？

That's relevant information, but that's not the important consideration. The important consideration is, will your sponsors continue to support that project, pay the interest, pay the carried cost, work the leasing, work the sales, whatever, and get that project to a successful conclusion. And we've just had hundreds of examples of that in the portfolio and a relative handful of examples where the customers have not done that.

這是相關訊息，但並不是重要的考慮因素。重要的考慮是，您的贊助商是否會繼續支持該項目，支付利息、支付承擔成本、進行租賃、進行銷售等等，並使該項目成功完成。我們的產品組合中已經有數百個這樣的例子，而客戶沒有這樣做的例子則相對較少。

So we're very happy with the performance of our portfolio. We continue to expect in the vast majority of credits, the sponsor is going to do what they need to do to get to a successful outcome. And our business model is designed to make that happen.

因此，我們對我們的投資組合的表現非常滿意。我們繼續期望，在絕大多數信貸中，贊助商將會採取其需要採取的措施來取得成功的結果。我們的商業模式就是為了實現這一點。

The low leverage, and you know there we've re appraised the vast majority of the portfolio now in the current interest rate or higher interest rate environment. So we've taken into account higher cap rates and so forth. And some folks make a big deal out of the fact that while our loan to value is on a lot of those loans when we reappraise them have gone up, yes, but like a comment was made, our life science portfolio went up 10% or something. Well, it went from 45% loan to value to 55% loan to value. Big deal.

槓桿率較低，您知道，我們在當前利率或更高利率環境下重新評估了絕大多數投資組合。因此，我們考慮了更高的資本化率等等。有些人對這一事實大驚小怪，雖然我們的貸款價值比在重新評估時確實上升了，但就像有人評論的那樣，我們的生命科學投資組合上漲了 10％ 左右。嗯，貸款價值比從 45％ 上升到了 55％。有什麼大不了的。

That's why we do these low leverage loans is we allow for adverse scenarios to occur that could affect valuations and us still be super deep in the money, super well covered by the value of the collateral. And that fact that we're deep in the money means that the sponsor and their capital partners are still well in the money, and they're going to continue to defend these assets. It's a very simple element that if you apply it with discipline, it has a very beneficial effect for the portfolio. And we're continuing to see the benefits of that strategy. Our strategy is certainly proven out in this cycle.

這就是我們提供這些低槓桿貸款的原因，我們允許可能影響估值的不利情況發生，並且我們仍然可以獲得豐厚的回報，並透過抵押品的價值得到很好的覆蓋。我們擁有大量資金，這意味著發起人和他們的資本合作夥伴仍然擁有大量資金，他們將繼續捍衛這些資產。這是一個非常簡單的要素，如果你嚴格運用它，它將對投資組合產生非常有益的影響。我們將繼續看到這項戰略帶來的好處。我們的策略在這個週期中得到了證實。

Catherine Mealor, KBW.

凱瑟琳·米勒（Catherine Mealor），KBW。

So as we think about the current rate environment, I mean, clearly, towards less rate cuts is better for you in terms of the margin and potentially less paydowns. And I think you just answered the question on what the incremental credit risk is. It still feels like you feel really comfortable with that even in a higher rate environment. But can you maybe comment a little bit on that on just what higher rates could mean for credit risk?

因此，當我們考慮當前的利率環境時，我的意思是，顯然，從利潤率和潛在的更少的還款角度來看，較少的降息對你更有利。我想您剛剛回答了增量信用風險是什麼的問題。即使在更高利率的環境下，你仍然感覺非常舒適。但您能否就更高的利率對信用風險意味著什麼發表一點評論？

And then secondly is just on some new origination volumes. If rates -- we don't get any more rate cuts this year, how you think that might impact your origination volume at RESG and then some of your new initiatives at CIB?

其次，只是一些新的起源量。如果今年我們不再有任何利率下調，您認為這會對 RESG 的貸款發起量以及 CIB 的一些新舉措產生什麼影響？

Okay. Well, Jake, let's take those in reverse order. If we don't get any more rate cuts, what does that do to CIB's volume?

好的。好吧，傑克，讓我們按相反的順序來做。如果我們不再降息，這會對 CIB 的業務量產生什麼影響？

Yeah, the beauty of the position that we're in, Catherine, it's a good question, is that we are absorbing and cherry picking new clients in the current environment. So we don't necessarily have a large amount of baggage or what have you from clients that haven't gone through the ups and downs of the current market environment. And so as we look out and we start to cherry pick and move forward across ABLG and CBSF and EFCS and our fund finance groups and other potential expansion groups that we're toying with, overall, from an impact on the interest rate, we believe we'll be in a good position there.

是的，凱瑟琳，這個問題問得很好，我們所處位置的美妙之處在於，我們正在當前環境下吸收和挑選新客戶。因此，我們不一定會對那些沒有經歷過當前市場環境起伏的客戶產生大量的負擔或其他什麼。因此，當我們開始關注並開始挑選並推進 ABLG、CBSF、EFCS 以及我們的基金財務集團和我們正在考慮的其他潛在擴張集團時，總體而言，從對利率的影響來看，我們相信我們將處於有利地位。

Pricing we're getting across the board still remains pretty good from a spread standpoint. Our CBSF group, which is our fastest-growing group, continues to carry the flag with the best spread across those business units, too. So we feel like we're in a pretty good position.

從價差角度而言，我們全面獲得的定價仍然相當不錯。我們的 CBSF 集團是我們成長最快的集團，並且繼續在所有業務部門中保持最佳傳播力。因此，我們覺得我們處於非常有利的地位。

George, any thoughts there?

喬治，有什麼想法嗎？

Brannon, do you want to talk about what no cuts or higher rates does for RESG's volume?

布蘭農，你想談談不減產或提高利率對 RESG 的交易量有何影響嗎？

Sure, Catherine. Happy to answer the question. So from where we stand today, and we noted that in the environment we are in, we are cautiously optimistic that we can achieve a higher or more typical level of originations in 2024. You've noted that our mindset has been around zero to two cuts during the year. But if they stick where they are, what we're seeing is even with the two that we've had in September and December, an increase in the deal flow.

當然，凱瑟琳。很高興回答這個問題。因此，從我們今天的立場來看，我們注意到，在我們所處的環境中，我們謹慎樂觀地認為，我們可以在 2024 年實現更高或更典型的發起水準。你已經注意到，我們今年的思路一直是削減零到兩次。但如果他們堅持現狀，我們看到的是，即使像 9 月和 12 月那樣，交易量也會增加。

So these -- our guys have done a great job staying in touch with the market and watching what deals are out there and staying in touch with the developers. And what they're seeing is the incremental benefit that they're getting from the recent cuts. And really beyond that, I mean, these high rates have halted or provided substantial headwinds to deal flow. That flows down into the other inputs of the process, land being one of them, and we're starting to see those valuations push down. So one of the inputs in the project is at a more attractive place.

所以這些 — — 我們的員工在與市場保持聯繫、關注外面的交易以及與開發商保持聯繫方面做得非常出色。他們看到的是從最近的削減中獲得的增量效益。除此之外，我的意思是，這些高利率已經停止或為交易流動帶來了巨大阻力。這會影響到流程的其他投入，土地就是其中之一，我們開始看到這些估值下降。因此，該專案的投入之一處於更有吸引力的地方。

So you get incremental impact or a benefit from declining land values. You get benefit from interest rates being off a little bit. And we've seen that start to induce more of the deals coming off the shelf and moving forward.

因此，您將從土地價值下降中獲得增量影響或收益。利率略有下降，你會受益。我們已經看到，這開始引發更多交易的達成和推進。

So we're seeing the market adjust to what could be, as we all know, a longer-term elevated rate environment. Cap rates are adjusting. We're seeing valuations bottom out and come back up. So we obviously love the benefit to our bottom line to the revenue we generate on these loans that we have on book in a flat to up environment. But we think the market is adjusting too. I don't know if this is a new normal. But if it is, we think we could still see strong deal flow.

因此我們看到市場正在適應眾所周知的長期高利率環境。資本化率正在調整。我們看到估值觸底並回升。因此，我們顯然很高興看到，在平穩至上升的環境下，這些貸款為我們帳面收入帶來的收益增加了，從而為我們的底線帶來了好處。但我們認為市場也在調整。我不知道這是否是一種新常態。但如果確實如此，我們認為我們仍然可以看到強勁的交易流。

Now again, if it's massive moves up, that could change the needle. But we are seeing an adjustment that would tell us that even where we are, we're going to see more volume in the pipeline for RESG. We certainly in the quarter just ended saw improved volume. We saw improved conversion in terms of our guys getting executed term sheets.

現在，如果它再次大幅上漲，那可能會改變情況。但我們看到了一種調整，它告訴我們，即使我們現在處於什麼位置，我們也會看到 RESG 的管道中有更多的體積。我們在剛結束的季度中確實看到了銷量的成長。我們看到，我們的員工執行條款清單的轉換率有所提高。

So going into the year here, we've got a good pipeline for the quarter. We still have to close them. But we come into the year with that thought that even if things were to stick where they are, we ought to be able to improve over last year.

因此，進入今年以來，我們為本季做好了良好的準備。我們仍需將其關閉。但是，我們懷著這樣的想法進入新的一年：即使情況保持不變，我們也應該能夠比去年有所進步。

Catherine, let me provide one other comment, and Brannon correct me if I'm wrong. But I think our RESG originations in the fourth quarter were our lowest originations in 27 quarters.

凱瑟琳，讓我提供另一條評論，如果我錯了，請布蘭農糾正我。但我認為，第四季的 RESG 發起量是 27 個季度以來的最低水準。

You could look at that and say, wow, gosh, that's a horrible origination quarter and says that there's not a lot of new deals percolating. You sort of have to factor in the lag effect, though, on projects. It takes a long time to conceive a project and get it to closing. So that really low fourth-quarter origination volume probably reflects the mindset of sponsors two or three quarters below before that.

您可能會說，哇，天哪，這是一個糟糕的發起季度，並且沒有太多新的交易滲透。不過，你必須考慮項目的滯後效應。構思一個專案並完成它需要很長時間。因此，第四季度發起量真正走低可能反映出贊助商的心態比之前低了兩到三個季度。

At the same time, we had the lowest origination volume in 27 quarters. Our RESG pipeline of signed term sheets at year end was, Brannon described that, but I don't want to misstate it, so you describe it.

同時，我們的貸款發放量創下 27 個季度以來的最低水準。我們的 RESG 管道在年底簽署了條款清單，Brannon 對此進行了描述，但我不想錯誤地陳述，所以你來描述它。

Brannon, you're on.

布蘭農，你上場了。

It was actually one of our best in maybe, I want to say, four to six quarters of term sheets executed. So it was -- it definitely stood out on the map.

我想說，這實際上是我們執行的條款清單中最好的一個，大概是四到六個季度以來。所以它確實在地圖上很顯眼。

And I think what you're seeing there is the fact that 100 basis points lower rates have sponsors excited about dusting off some projects, signing a term sheet, and getting ready to move forward. And frankly, I think the election has stimulated enthusiasm and excitement about the US economy with the expectation that we're headed into a more pro-business constructive environment that's going to be good for economic growth. So we're getting those vibes from our customers and seeing that.

我認為，您所看到的事實是，100 個基點的較低利率讓發起人對重啟一些項目、簽署條款清單並準備向前邁進感到興奮。坦白說，我認為這場選舉激發了人們對美國經濟的熱情和興奮，人們期待我們將進入一個更有利於商業的建設性環境，這將有利於經濟成長。所以我們從客戶那裡得到了這些感受並且看到了這一點。

So we're feeling cautiously optimistic about loan growth in 2025, even knowing we're going to still be dealing with a big bunch of headwinds from RESG payoffs because 2025 is the third year following the record 2022 origination year in RESG. So CIB's momentum, the fact that we're getting some new term sheets and higher volume term sheets coming through RESG makes us pretty optimistic about our ability to grow next year.

因此，我們對 2025 年的貸款成長持謹慎樂觀的態度，儘管我們知道我們仍將面臨來自 RESG 還款的巨大阻力，因為 2025 年是繼 2022 年 RESG 創紀錄的發放年之後的第三年。因此，CIB 的發展勢頭以及我們透過 RESG 獲得一些新的條款清單和更高數量的條款清單的事實讓我們對明年的成長能力非常樂觀。

Now your question on margin -- yeah, go ahead.

現在您的問題是關於保證金的 - 是的，請繼續。

Yeah. Let me just add one thing on the pay downs. On the pay down, do you think even if rates are higher, we still -- I mean, to your point, you're on the third year, so that's when you naturally see it. But do you still think you see as many extensions as we've been seeing in the past or because we're kind of in a more normalized rate environment, and maybe there's not the belief that we'll get so many cuts, you see a lot of these loans just go ahead and go into permanent financing? I guess, the question is, do we -- it's probably fair to believe that no matter what was the rates, paydowns should still be pretty high this year?

是的。讓我補充一點關於還款的事情。關於還款，您是否認為即使利率較高，我們仍然 - 我的意思是，正如您所說，您已經是第三年了，所以那時您自然會看到它。但您是否仍然認為，您會看到像我們過去所看到的一樣多的延期，或者是因為我們處於一種更加正常化的利率環境中，也許人們不相信我們會得到如此多的削減，您是否看到許多此類貸款繼續進行並進入永久融資？我想，問題是，我們是否——可以合理地相信，無論利率如何，今年的還款額仍然會相當高？

Yeah. We -- the last three quarters, we've seen elevated levels of prepayments -- or repayments, not prepayments, but elevated levels of prepayments on our RESG loans. And I think that reflects the fact that sponsors are dialing in on the fact that we're probably in the right environment, we're going to be more or less going forward. And the waiting for rates to go back to zero is no longer a reality in people's minds, and they're going ahead and dealing with the reality of where we are today or where they think we're going to be next quarter and making plans and actions to move these projects to more permanent or bridge financing away from our construction loan because they think we're getting where we are.

是的。在過去三個季度中，我們看到預付款或還款水準有所提高，不是預付款，而是 RESG 貸款的預付款水準有所提高。我認為這反映出贊助商意識到我們可能處於正確的環境中，我們或多或少會向前邁進。在人們的心中，等待利率回到零已經不再是現實，他們開始著手處理我們當前的現實情況或他們認為我們下個季度將會面臨的現實情況，並製定計劃和行動將這些項目轉向更永久的項目或過渡融資，擺脫我們的建築貸款，因為他們認為我們正在達到目前的水平。

So I think that has been one factor in the elevated level of repayments for the last three quarters. I think that continues in the coming year. Now will that result in a lower level of modifications? I don't know that it will. We may still see a high level of modifications.

所以我認為這是過去三個季度還款水平較高的一個因素。我認為這種情況在來年還會持續下去。那麼這是否會導致修改等級降低？我不知道是否會這樣。我們可能仍會看到高水準的修改。

For example, we've got a sponsor on a project who has got a term sheet lined up from a bridge lender to take them out of our project to give them more time. That was approved in committee, but they needed a 90-day extension on that to get that closed.

例如，我們的一個項目有一位贊助商，他已經從過橋貸款人那裡拿到了一份條款清單，以便將他們退出我們的項目，從而給他們更多的時間。該事宜已在委員會中獲得批准，但他們需要延期 90 天才能完成。

Our guess is that it will take them. It's the complexity of the project. It will take them more than 90 days. So we've preapproved a second 90-day extension if they need it. So we could see that loan pay off, go to a bridge lender in the second quarter, maybe the first quarter of this year and see one or two extensions booked on that as a result.

我們猜測它會接受它們。這是專案的複雜性。他們需要花費超過 90 天的時間。因此，如果他們需要的話，我們已經預先批准了第二次 90 天的延期。因此，我們可以看到貸款得到償還，在第二季度，也許是今年第一季度，向過橋貸款人尋求還款，結果看到一到兩次延期。

So I think you're going to see a high level of extensions this year, but I also think you're going to continue to see a high level of repayments as we've seen over the last four quarters.

因此，我認為今年你將看到高水準的延期，但我還認為你將繼續看到高水準的償還，正如我們在過去四個季度所看到的那樣。

Manan Gosalia, Morgan Stanley.

馬南‧戈薩利亞，摩根士丹利。

I wanted to ask about -- on the appraisal front, it looks like the number of loans you're getting appraisals for has gone up quite meaningfully over the past couple of quarters. I wanted to ask what's driving that? Is it more normal cause? Or is that thought of a more concerted effort to go through the book and see where you need sponsors to bring in more equity?

我想問一下——在評估方面，看起來過去幾季你們獲得評估的貸款數量已經大幅增加。我想問一下是什麼原因導致的？這是更正常的原因嗎？或者這是否意味著需要更加齊心協力地通讀這本書，看看在哪些方面需要贊助商來帶來更多的股權？

It really, I think, is a reflection of the fact that there have been a lot of questions, gosh, as you reappraised the portfolio, what are those appraisals going to look like? We have pretty good ideas on that ourselves. So we're not as concerned about that as perhaps some of the folks sitting in your chair or your investors chairs are. So we just made a decision to go with the max pace that our appraisal services function can engage, review, and validate the third-party appraisals, we guess. So we're going as fast as we can.

我認為，這確實反映出存在著許多問題，天哪，當您重新評估投資組合時，這些評估會是什麼樣子？我們自己對此有非常好的想法。因此，我們並不像您或您的投資者那樣擔心這一點。因此，我們決定以我們的評估服務功能可以參與、審查和驗證第三方評估的最大速度進行評估。所以我們會盡可能快地前進。

I think, Brannon, you were telling me recently, we have -- I can't remember the number of RESG loans that are pre-December 2022 appraisals.

布蘭農，我想你最近告訴我，我們有—我不記得 2022 年 12 月之前評估的 RESG 貸款的數量。

Yeah. We've got, I think, 68 of those left that were predated December 15, 2022. And of that 68, we're probably going to have between 40 and 45 of those reappraise this quarter, and then we'll have others beyond that. So our count -- our total count this quarter will be probably in and around where it was last quarter. But -- and then we'll have some loans in that vintage.

是的。我認為，我們還剩下 68 個日期早於 2022 年 12 月 15 日的訂單。在這 68 個中，我們可能會在本季度對其中 40 到 45 個進行重新評估，然後我們也會對其他一些進行重新評估。因此，我們本季的總數可能與上一季的總數大致相同。但是 — — 那時我們就會有一些貸款。

We're talking about that will pay off as well. So we've made a lot of progress there, but getting close to the end of those older appraisals, getting them updated.

我們正在談論這也會帶來回報。因此，我們在那裡取得了很大進展，但已接近完成那些舊評估並對其進行更新。

Yeah. By the end of Q1 and -- we should have just a handful of loans in RESG that have not been reappraised in the current interest rate environment or a higher interest rate environment starting from December 2022 forward. So we wanted to -- we're not terribly concerned about these reappraisals. I mean, we know that a property is probably going to appraise and in many cases for a little higher loan-to-value, a little lower the valuation than it did three years ago. We all know where cap rates have gone and time periods to stabilize. So that has an impact on appraised values, and we're seeing that.

是的。到第一季末，RESG 中應該只有少量貸款在當前利率環境或從 2022 年 12 月開始的更高利率環境下尚未重新評估。所以我們希望——我們並不太擔心這些重新評估。我的意思是，我們知道一處房產的估價可能會略高一些，在很多情況下，貸款價值比會比三年前略低一些。我們都知道資本化率的變化以及穩定的時間段。所以這對評估價值有影響，我們已經看到了這一點。

So we want to get essentially the full portfolio reappraised as quickly as we could so that everyone that's interested in our numbers would understand where those numbers are. What we're really proud about and expected to occur is even though we reappraised 30% or 90%-something of the portfolio, our loan to value in the last year on the portfolio only went from 43% to 44%.

因此，我們希望盡快對整個投資組合進行重新評估，以便每個對我們的數字感興趣的人都能了解這些數字在哪裡。我們真正感到自豪並且預計會發生的是，儘管我們重新評估了 30％ 或 90％ 左右的投資組合，但去年我們投資組合的貸款價值比僅從 43％ 上升到了 44％。

Now a lot's made, oh, gosh, you had a few loans that went up 20% or 30% loan to value or more and you had a bunch that went up 10% loan to value or more. But our portfolio -- at the portfolio level, and I'm managing a portfolio, our weighted average loan to value is 44%. And that reflects the fact that even though as we're reappraising, a majority of the appraisals are showing a higher loan to value.

現在發生了很多事情，哦，天哪，你有幾筆貸款的貸款價值上漲了 20％ 或 30％ 或更多，還有一堆貸款的貸款價值上漲了 10％ 或更多。但我們的投資組合－在投資組合層面，我管理的投資組合，我們的加權平均貸款成數是 44%。這反映出這樣一個事實：儘管我們正在重新評估，但大多數評估都顯示貸款價值更高。

The new product that we are originating is below average loan to value. So new originations are working that down. And we continue to get a lot of paydowns on previous loans, both at modifications and subsequent to modifications. We're getting some very accretive partial releases on projects where one part of it is sold and the other parts retained, and we get an accretive pay down on that.

我們推出的新產品的貸款價值低於平均值。因此，新的發起正在努力解決這個問題。而且我們繼續獲得大量先前貸款的償還，包括修改時和修改後的償還。我們在項目中獲得了一些非常可觀的部分釋放，其中一部分被出售，而其他部分被保留，我們從中獲得可觀的回報。

And on our condo projects, we have a pretty big project condos as those things sell out, those loan to values go down because every unit sale is highly accretive to our loan to value. So the result of all those moving parts is that we've continued to keep the portfolio at a very, very conservative 44% weighted average loan to value.

在我們的公寓項目中，我們有一個相當大的公寓項目，隨著這些公寓的銷售，貸款價值會下降，因為每個單位的銷售都對我們的貸款價值具有很大的增值作用。因此，所有這些變動因素的結果是，我們繼續將投資組合保持在非常非常保守的 44% 加權平均貸款價值比。

Got it. Very, very helpful. And maybe pivoting over to the NIM and the loan floors, what behavior have you seen from clients who have hit their floors now that were 100 basis points lower than where we started? Have they been looking to replace their loans? Or have there been any trends that you've noticed on those loans?

知道了。非常非常有幫助。也許轉向淨利差和貸款下限，您看到那些目前達到比開始時低 100 個基點的下限的客戶有什麼行為？他們是否一直在尋求替代貸款？或者您注意到這些貸款有何趨勢？

Brannon, I'm not aware of anything. Do you want to comment on that?

布蘭農，我什麼都不知道。您想對此發表評論嗎？

No. The only trend I can positively identify is they pay their debt service. But in all seriousness, there really hasn't been. I mean, look, the other trend is in these modifications, we've noted that we haven't lowered those floors. We've increased quite a number of those floors.

不。我能夠肯定的唯一趨勢是他們償還債務。但嚴肅地說，確實沒有。我的意思是，你看，另一個趨勢是在這些修改中，我們注意到我們並沒有降低這些地板。我們已經增加了相當多的樓層。

It's a negotiated -- heavily negotiated item, both on the front end of deals we're closing and the mods that we're negotiating. But our guys do a great job there, and the evidence of that is very clear in our report. And -- but no, we don't typically see an exit based on the floor. Again, that's part of the picture, but the bigger picture is in terms of the project and the takeout market is a much bigger piece of that.

這是一個經過大量談判的項目，無論是在我們正在達成的交易的前端，還是在我們正在談判的修改中。但我們的人員在那裡表現十分出色，這在我們的報告中有非常清楚的證據。並且 — — 但是不，我們通常不會根據底線看到退出。再說一遍，這只是一部分情況，但更大的情況是就專案而言，而外帶市場是其中更大的一部分。

As we think about loan yields from here, I think there has been about a 60% beta on loan yield so far. And I think part of that is also just coming from the loan mix changing. So now as more loans hit their floors, is it fair to expect that the loan yield beta on the downside will be slower from here? Or just how should we think about that from here?

當我們考慮貸款收益率時，我認為到目前為止貸款收益率的貝塔係數約為 60%。我認為部分原因也來自於貸款組合的變動。那麼，現在隨著越來越多的貸款觸及底線，是否可以合理預期貸款收益率的下行速度將會減慢？或者說從現在起我們該如何思考這個問題？

That's a good question. I would point you to Figure 27 in our management comments. 14% of our loans were at their floor rate -- 14% of our variable rate loans were at their floor rate at December 31. And I emphasize that 14% because one of our commentators got that wrong and said, we had 7% of our loans at the floor rate. That was only half, right?

這是個好問題。我想向您指出我們管理評論中的圖 27。截至 12 月 31 日，我們的 14% 的貸款處於最低利率水準——14% 的浮動利率貸款處於最低利率水準。我強調 14% 是因為我們的一位評論員搞錯了，他說我們的貸款中有 7% 是以最低利率計算的。那隻是一半，對吧？

And you see, if you go down 50 basis points, you're at 42% of loans at their floor rate. So the guidance that we've given and the assumptions that we've used, while I think they're the most likely case, no rate cuts -- two rate cuts this year. Obviously, one rate cut, we're going to be at 26% or more percent of our loans. So the floor rate, two rate cuts, 42%.

你看，如果下降 50 個基點，那麼 42% 的貸款將處於最低利率。因此，根據我們給出的指導和所使用的假設，我認為最有可能的情況是，今年不會降息——降息兩次。顯然，一次降息，我們的貸款比例就會達到26%或更多。因此，最低利率，兩次降息，為 42%。

So if we had three or four or five rate cuts, once you get into that 40s, your loan beta really slows down. Our deposit beta is going to, of course, continue to speed up if we pre-price loans. So both our provision expense would benefit from three or four or five cuts, and our NIM would have a significant expansion opportunity from three or four or five or six cuts because we would benefit from those floor rates kicking in.

因此，如果我們有三次、四次或五次降息，那麼一旦進入40左右，你的貸款貝塔係數就會真正減慢。當然，如果我們對貸款進行預先定價，我們的存款測試版將會繼續加速。因此，我們的撥備支出將從三次、四次或五次降息中受益，而我們的淨利息收益率也將從三次、四次或五次或六次降息中獲得顯著的擴張機會，因為我們將受益於這些最低利率的實施。

And as Brannon said, we're just not -- we don't get paid off usually because of floor rates. That's a rare issue. Negotiated customers know it. They hit the floor, they hit the floor, they live with it because that was part of the deal.

正如布蘭農所說，我們通常不會因為最低利率而獲得報酬。這是一個罕見的問題。經過協商的客戶都知道這一點。他們擊中了地板，他們擊中了地板，他們忍受著它，因為這是交易的一部分。

The flip side of that is, if we went higher, our variable rate loan portfolio would generate significantly more net interest income. We would give back part of that with higher provision expense because of the elevated stress that a rising rate environment would put on our customers. So the guidance we've given and the assumptions we've made are actually the worst-case scenario, zero rate cuts to 50 basis points, and rate cuts this year is the worst case scenario for us. And yet, we're coming out with pretty darn good results even in that worst case scenario.

另一方面，如果我們提高利率，我們的浮動利率貸款組合將產生更多的淨利息收入。由於利率上升的環境會給我們的客戶帶來更大的壓力，我們將透過提高撥備費用來返還部分資金。因此，我們給出的指導和做出的假設實際上是最壞的情況，即零降息至 50 個基點，而今年降息對我們來說是最糟糕的情況。然而，即使在最壞的情況下，我們仍然取得了相當不錯的成績。

So more rate cuts is better. Rate increases, net-net, are better, even though our higher margins would be partially given back by our provision expense. But the worst-case scenario is where we are, which is 0 to 50 basis points. So we've given you guidance based on that.

因此，進一步降息更好。雖然我們的較高利潤率會被撥備費用部分抵消，但淨利率的增加對淨利率而言是更好的。但最糟糕的情況就是我們現在的情況，也就是 0 到 50 個基點。因此我們據此為您提供指導。

Matt Olney, Stephens.

馬特奧爾尼、史蒂芬斯。

I want to ask more of a bigger picture question, and it's more around the longer-term aspirations of the company with respect to both loan growth and the investment spend. And for 2025, you've been clear about the loan growth expectations, mid- to high single digits with that handoff from RESG to the other growth segments. And you've also talked about the expense growth of around 10% because of these various growth initiatives and all these new hires. I guess, if we look beyond 2025, just trying to appreciate the longer-term loan growth aspirations of the company and what type of investments you think will be required to maintain those aspirations?

我想問一個更大層面的問題，它更多地涉及公司在貸款成長和投資支出方面的長期願望。對於 2025 年，您已經明確了貸款成長預期，即從 RESG 向其他成長部分轉移，貸款成長將達到中高個位數。您還談到，由於各種成長計劃和所有這些新員工，費用增加了 10% 左右。我想，如果我們將目光投向 2025 年以後，我們只是想了解公司長期的貸款成長意願，以及您認為需要哪些類型的投資才能維持這些願望？

Well, I would -- let me take that, Matt, and then I'll give Jake and Brannon a chance to comment on that.

好吧，我會 - 讓我來接受這個，馬特，然後我會給傑克和布蘭農一個機會對此發表評論。

We have traditionally been a very growth-oriented company and have had a lot of success. In a couple of months, I'll celebrate my 46th year here, and the balance sheet is about 1,400x the size balance sheet that we were when we started. And I expect to be here into the future and expect to continue to see solid growth.

我們傳統上是一家非常注重成長的公司，並且取得了許多成功。幾個月後，我將慶祝我在這裡工作的第 46 年，而資產負債表的規模大約是我們剛開始時的 1,400 倍。我希望未來能夠繼續保持穩健的成長。

As far as the expenses to achieve that growth, there'll be incremental expenses as we add more lenders, add more loans, add more customers. But I think we have incurred a huge amount of the expense this year and last year to achieve some really important growth elements for us. And obviously, CIB is getting a lot of attention because it has become the dominant engine for loan growth. But Jake mentioned, they came in and started building CIB and built the credit and the servicing and the risk and the compliance and all the governance things around that really rock solid to have a foundation to originate their first loans.

至於實現這成長所需的費用，隨著我們增加更多的貸款人、增加更多的貸款、增加更多的客戶，費用也會增加。但我認為，今年和去年我們花費了大量的開支來實現一些對我們來說真正重要的成長要素。顯然，CIB 受到了廣泛關注，因為它已成為貸款成長的主要引擎。但傑克提到，他們加入並開始建立 CIB，並建立了信貸、服務、風險、合規和所有相關治理設施，為發放第一筆貸款奠定了堅實的基礎。

And they took the ABLG and Equipment Finance and Fund Finance businesses that we had wrap them into a much more rigorous servicing, asset management, governance structure that has already been created and is clearly in the run rate of our numbers. So CIB's growth going forward, which I think it will rival RESG in future years, whether that's three or five or seven years, who knows, but I think it will be in 5 to 10 years as big a part of our company is for RESG.

他們將我們的 ABLG 和設備融資以及基金融資業務納入了已經創建的更嚴格的服務、資產管理和治理結構中，並且顯然符合我們的資料運行速度。因此，我認為 CIB 未來的成長將與 RESG 相媲美，無論是三年、五年還是七年，誰知道呢，但我認為它將在 5 到 10 年後實現，因為我們公司的很大一部分業務是為 RESG 服務的。

And the structure for that is in place, and it's paid for. It's in our run rate of expenses. Now incremental growth, you'll have incremental expenses, but that unit is going to get more and more efficient as they go forward because the foundational expenses are light.

目前，該結構已經到位，並且已付款。它在我們的費用運行率中。現在，隨著增量增長，您將有增量費用，但是隨著前進，該單位將變得越來越高效，因為基礎費用很少。

Same thing with our mortgage division. We've been losing money in mortgage all year long in 2024 as we built that and ramped it up, but it has been built, right, that infrastructure is there. Those monthly and quarterly negative numbers are getting smaller and smaller. And I think that unit becomes a positive contributor next year.

我們的抵押貸款部門也發生同樣的事情。到 2024 年，隨著我們建設和擴大這一基礎設施，我們全年都在虧損，但它已經建成了，對的，基礎設施就在那裡。每月和每季的負數正在越來​​越小。我認為該部門明年將發揮積極作用。

The same thing in our consumer elements of our book, we've ramped up in tandem, the partnership between Cindy's Retail Banking units and Alan Jessup's Community Banking units, originating consumer and small business loans and so forth, we put a lot of the infrastructure in place over the last two years, and those guys are just beginning to hit some meaningful strides in growth. Our Trust and Wealth unit, we've really built up a much more significant infrastructure buyer. That infrastructure is in place, we're getting some real positive growth there, and I think you'll really see that next year.

在我們的書中，消費者元素也是一樣，我們同步加強了辛迪零售銀行部門和艾倫傑瑟普社區銀行部門之間的合作，發放消費者和小企業貸款等等，我們在過去兩年裡建立了大量的基礎設施，這些傢伙才剛開始在增長方面取得一些有意義的進步。我們的信託和財富部門確實已經建立了更重要的基礎設施買家。基礎設施已經到位，我們正在那裡取得一些真正的積極成長，我認為明年你會真正看到這一點。

So I think we will have expenses ramp. But I would expect to maintain an industry-leading efficiency ratio as we have seen because we expect revenue is going to ramp faster than expenses. So I would expect us to continue to be in that sort of mid-30s, low 30s sort of efficiency ratio going forward.

因此我認為我們的開支將會增加。但我希望維持業界領先的效率比率，因為我們預期收入的成長速度將快於支出。因此我預計我們未來的效率比率將繼續保持在 35% 左右。

And I'll just piggyback off that quickly off of George's guidance there. Specific to the CIB, efficiency is a key factor. And so if you look at 2024, to his point, it was really the foundational build of our portfolio management and operations team to ensure that we maintain a very healthy and clean book of business, and we're best-in-class across our peers in that aspect. And so when you look out as it relates to the future build, it's really going to be a little bit more focused on the origination side.

我很快就會藉鑑喬治的指導。具體到CIB，效率是關鍵因素。因此，如果您展望 2024 年，正如他所說，這實際上是我們投資組合管理和營運團隊的基礎建設，以確保我們保持非常健康和乾淨的業務賬簿，並且我們在這方面在同行中名列前茅。因此，當你關注未來的建設時，你實際上會更加關注起源方面。

And again, we take a little bit different view here between George and Brannon and I. A lot of our competitors might go out and start a market or get in and launch a CBSF team in Nashville or Atlanta or wherever it might be and hire 10, 15 people out of the gate. And then just hope the business comes and hope that thing repays itself within a decent time line.

再說一次，喬治、布蘭農和我對此的看法略有不同。我們的許多競爭對手可能會出去開拓一個市場，或者進入納許維爾、亞特蘭大或任何地方並組建 CBSF 團隊，然後僱用 10 到 15 個人。然後就只是希望生意能成功，並且希望能夠在適當的時間內收回成本。

And it's really not the approach we take. We take a much more level-headed pragmatic approach where we challenge our business head leads within CIB, so whether that's Mark over CBSF, approval over fund finance, or Jim over our EFCS, Tim over our loan syndication Corporate Services, or Mr. Sheff over our ABLG group, we really asked them to prepay for the next person before we bring the next person on.

這確實不是我們採取的方法。我們採取更冷靜務實的方式，對 CIB 內的業務主管進行挑戰，無論是 CBSF 的 Mark、基金融資的審批、EFCS 的 Jim、貸款銀團企業服務部的 Tim 還是 ABLG 集團的 Sheff 先生，我們都要求他們在聘用下一位員工之前先為下一位員工預付款。

And so to George's point, before we're hiring this high-quality talent, we've actively challenged that team to generate additional new business so that when that person comes on, even if they were not to contribute in the worst-case scenario, the business is already there and the revenue is already there to have prepay for that person so that we can keep our efficiency ratios really best-in-class.

正如喬治所說，在我們聘用這些高素質人才之前，我們已經積極地挑戰該團隊去創造更多的新業務，以便當這個人加入時，即使在最壞的情況下他們沒有做出貢獻，業務已經存在，收入也已經存在，我們可以為這個人預付工資，這樣我們就可以保持我們的效率比率真正處於一流水平。

Okay. Thanks for the commentary, very comprehensive. I guess I want to switch gears. I also ask about any potential regulatory changes. We've got the new administration coming to the White House.

好的。謝謝評論，非常全面。我想我想換個話題。我還詢問任何潛在的監管變化。新政府即將入主白宮。

The market has some anticipation. There could be more favorable changes for the industry. Would love to hear your perspective about any potential regulatory changes for the industry and how this could impact the bank.

市場有所期待。該行業可能會發生更多有利的變化。我很想聽聽您對該行業任何潛在監管變化的看法以及這些變化將如何影響銀行。

Yeah. We're very hopeful that the change in administration is going to lead to a more constructive regulatory environment. I mean, certainly, the banking industry and because of FDIC insurance, there's a level of safety and soundness regulation and other regulation that is appropriate. But the regulatory environment has just gotten increasingly more and more and more challenging for the industry. I'm not telling anybody here anything that's not widely known.

是的。我們非常希望政府的改變能帶來更建設性的監管環境。我的意思是，當然，銀行業由於聯邦存款保險公司（FDIC）的保險，存在一定程度的安全性和穩健性監管以及其他適當的監管。但監管環境對該產業而言變得越來越具有挑戰性。我不會告訴這裡的任何人任何不為人所知的事情。

And you're seeing that push lots of business that the banking industry used to do out to private credit and nonbank financial firms, and there's a lot of risk to the economy and to consumers and business customers with that private credit and nonbank financial firms. So I think what we would hope to see. What we do hope to see is a rightsizing of regulatory restraint on the industry, which lets more and more of the credit needs of the country being met by the banking industry as opposed to a nonregulated, noncontrolled sources of credit that, I think, pose a lot more risk to the economy and customers.

你會看到，銀行業過去所做的許多業務都被推向了私人信貸和非銀行金融公司，而這些私人信貸和非銀行金融公司為經濟、消費者和商業客戶帶來了巨大的風險。我想這也是我們希望看到的。我們確實希望看到對該行業的監管限制得到適當縮減，從而使越來越多的國家信貸需求能夠由銀行業來滿足，而不是由不受監管、不受控制的信貸來源來滿足，我認為，後者會給經濟和客戶帶來更大的風險。

So we are hopeful, and we're advocating fiercely for that. And to the people, we're advocating that, too. That seems to be being met with a very favorable response. The President-elect, soon-to-be president on next week, has declared that he wants to expand the previous -- the existing tax regime and maybe even cut that tax regime and get the federal deficit down. To achieve the combination of lower taxes and reduced deficit, the US economy has got to grow.

因此我們充滿希望，並且我們正在大力倡導這一點。對於人民，我們也提倡這一點。此舉似乎得到了非常正面的回應。即將在下週就任總統的當選總統宣布，他希望擴大現有的稅收制度，甚至可能削減稅收制度，降低聯邦赤字。為了實現減稅和減少赤字的結合，美國經濟必須成長。

And I don't think the President, the administration incoming are going to be able to achieve the needed growth in the US economy without removing the unnecessary regulatory burdens on the US banking industry. The industry has the capital and has the scale and the ability to contribute to this next golden age of American economic growth as it has been called, but the industry got to be unfettered from the excesses of regulation. And we're making that point repeatedly to people in Washington.

我認為，如果不取消美國銀行業不必要的監管負擔，總統和新政府就無法實現美國經濟所需的成長。該行業擁有資本、規模和能力，可以為所謂的美國經濟成長的下一個黃金時代做出貢獻，但該行業必須擺脫過度監管的束縛。我們正一再向華盛頓人民強調這一點。

And again, I think that has been well received. So it's a big job. And there's going to be a lot of resistance from entrenched bureaucracy to giving up some of those unnecessary regulations and restraints on the industry. But if we're going to have the economy the President envisions, it has got to be done.

我認為這已經受到了熱烈歡迎。所以這是一項艱鉅的任務。而且，根深蒂固的官僚機構將對放棄一些對該行業不必要的監管和限制提出很大的阻力。但如果我們想要實現總統所設想的經濟，就必須這麼做。

Nicholas Holowko, UBS.

瑞銀的 Nicholas Holowko。

Thinking about your commentary around potential for greater originations as we're progressing from here, are there any specific types of properties or geographies that you would highlight as somewhere you'd highlight for a potential pickup in activity?

考慮到您對從現在開始的更大起源潛力的評論，您是否會強調某些特定類型的財產或地理位置作為可能增加活動的地方？

And maybe on the other side of that, obviously, everything is kind of on a case-by-case basis, but are there any either property types or regions of the country that you're specifically looking to avoid adding exposure at this point?

或許，另一方面，顯然一切都是根據具體情況來決定的，但是，目前您是否特別希望避免增加對某些房產類型或地區的曝光？

Brannon, do you want to take that?

布蘭農，你想接受這個嗎？

Yeah, absolutely. And Nicholas, I appreciate the question. So I would tell you that most recently, our origination volume, which is obviously an indicator of where we see opportunity, has been fairly heavily weighted towards multifamily and industrial, but also, condominium developments are a significant part of our current pipeline. A lot of that has some regional emphasis as well.

是的，絕對是如此。尼古拉斯，我很感謝你提出這個問題。所以我想告訴你，最近，我們的發起量（顯然是我們看到機會的指標）相當側重於多戶型和工業，但公寓開發也是我們當前管道的重要組成部分。其中許多也具有一定的地域重點。

Our highest geographic concentration continues to be in Miami. And the team there -- I mean, obviously, the economic activity in that realm of the world has been phenomenal, the in-migration driving demand. We have a long history of successful lending there, and that continues to be the case. So we still are very bullish on that particular property type and that particular geography.

我們的最高地理集中度仍然在邁阿密。那裡的團隊——我的意思是，顯然，那個地區的經濟活動非常活躍，移民推動了需求。我們在那裡有著長期的成功貸款歷史，而這種成功貸款將繼續下去。因此，我們仍然非常看好該特定的房產類型和特定的地理位置。

We're fortunate to have a lot of experience and a lot of great originating firepower in some of the healthier markets across the South, Southeast, Southwest. But also, New York continues to be active, perhaps not as active as it has been earlier in RESG's history, but that economy continues to move up into the right, if you will, post-COVID and the ensuing sort of challenges that came out of that. So we like some good opportunities there as well.

我們很幸運，在南部、東南部、西南地區一些較健康的市場中擁有豐富的經驗和強大的創始火力。但同時，紐約繼續保持活躍，也許不像 RESG 歷史上早期那麼活躍，但如果你願意的話，在後 COVID 時代以及隨之而來的挑戰之後，紐約經濟將繼續向右發展。因此我們也喜歡那裡的一些好機會。

Geographically, we continue to diversify. Our guys focus on the more household name markets, but some of the others that don't get mentioned as much. And if you refer to our geographic diversity, Figure 14, you'll notice some new adds to that list. For example, we've increased our presence in Utah, Mason Ross out of our San Francisco office. There has been a lot of not-so-great press about San Francisco and Seattle.

從地域上看，我們持續實現多元化。我們的人員專注於更家喻戶曉的市場，但也關註一些較少被提及的市場。如果您參考我們的地理多樣性（圖 14），您會注意到該清單中添加了一些新內容。例如，我們擴大了在猶他州的業務，並將梅森羅斯的業務從舊金山辦公室轉移出去。媒體對舊金山和西雅圖的報導不太好。

Those are markets that Mason covers. So he's been working very diligently to uncover opportunities in other markets within his regions and successfully so. So we have always said that quality is job number one. And so our guys are working to those quality opportunities with new sponsorship adding to the fold in terms of customers that we have not yet done business with, and we're seeing success there in some of these markets that you wouldn't have seen previously.

這些都是梅森所覆蓋的市場。因此，他一直非常努力地在他的地區尋找其他市場的機會，並且取得了成功。因此我們一直說，品質是第一要務。因此，我們的員工正在努力尋找這些優質機會，透過新的贊助商來擴大我們尚未合作過的客戶群，而且我們在一些以前從未見過的市場上取得了成功。

There has been a lot of and will continue to be a lot of industrial development along our border with Mexico. And Victor Reynoso here in our Dallas office has done a great job of originating some industrial along the border in different markets there.

我們與墨西哥的邊境地區已經有了大量的工業發展，並且也將繼續有大量的工業發展。我們達拉斯辦事處的維克多·雷諾索 (Victor Reynoso) 在沿邊境的不同市場開展工業化活動方面做出了巨大貢獻。

So those are just some examples where we're seeing some good economic activity, some good sponsorship that, in some cases, we've done business within other markets or we've not yet done business with before and have great track record. But again, the what continues to be a good bit of multifamily. We're picking our spots there because there has been a fair amount of construction.

這些只是一些例子，我們看到了一些良好的經濟活動，一些良好的贊助，在某些情況下，我們已經在其他市場開展過業務，或者我們以前從未開展過業務，並且有著良好的業績記錄。但話說回來，多戶型住宅仍然是一個很好的例子。我們選擇在那裡進行施工，因為那裡有相當多的施工。

But you have to remember, when we originate a multifamily loan today, that's going to open in three years. And there's -- the supply buildup that we saw, especially sort of coming into '22, has dropped off significantly. Absorption continues to mop up that excess supply. And when you look three years out, we'll actually deliver some of that multifamily product. There looks to be a real opportunity for our sponsors to capitalize on favorable market conditions. So yeah, that's sort of the what and the where around RESG's originations currently.

但你必須記住，當我們今天發放一筆多戶型貸款時，它將在三年內生效。我們看到，供應積累，尤其是進入22年後，已經大幅下降。吸收過程持續消除過剩供應。展望三年後，我們實際上將推出一些多戶型產品。對於我們的贊助商來說，這似乎是一個利用有利的市場條件的真正機會。是的，這就是目前 RESG 起源的概況和地點。

Perfect. And then just thinking a little bit more about the handoff strategy for this year and unpacking some of the growth there, in the quarter, it just looked like fund finance was a big part of the growth. I'm curious if that's an area where you think you took advantage of some resurgence in activity levels or if it was more just idiosyncratic as you're starting to win new business there?

完美的。然後再稍微思考今年的交接策略，並分析其中的一些成長，在本季度，看起來基金融資是成長的重要組成部分。我很好奇，您是否認為您在該領域利用了活動水平的復甦，或者這只是您開始在那裡贏得新業務的特殊之處？

Jake, that's yours.

傑克，這是你的。

No, that's a good question. I appreciate it. Some of it is just timing, right. And as we've reshaped the CIB and brought Fund Finance in, and we're blessed to have Parul join us and Mark assist too there, we've really been able to kind of turn up the heat in that book. The beauty of OZK as a whole is the connectivity to some really good sponsors around the country, a lot of which were rather untapped previously.

不，這是個好問題。我很感激。有些只是時間問題，對吧。隨著我們重組 CIB 並引入基金融資，我們很幸運有 Parul 加入我們，Mark 也提供協助，我們確實能夠加大這本書的熱度。總體而言，OZK 的優點在於能夠與全國各地的一些真正優秀的贊助商建立聯繫，其中許多贊助商以前尚未開發。

And so under this kind of reworked CIB organization, it's allowing us to kind of hone in and really kickstart that Fund Finance group once again and improve originations as a whole.

因此，在這種重新設計的 CIB 組織下，我們能夠再次磨練並真正啟動基金財務團隊並改善整個發起業務。

From an actual deal count, CBSF, our Corporate Banking & Sponsor Finance, which you can view as more of our general C&I team, which also achieved the average highest yield for the book fourth quarter. From the actual loan count, they surpassed the other business units. It's just typically smaller loan sizes.

從實際交易數量來看，CBSF、我們的企業銀行和贊助商融資（您可以將其視為我們的一般 C&I 團隊）也實現了第四季度的最高平均收益率。從實際貸款數量來看，他們超過了其他業務部門。這通常只是貸款額較小。

So great question. We expect CBSF, Fund Finance, EFCS, ABLG, all to continue to grow in the coming quarters. So we're excited about that. We're excited to look at other opportunities that might be in the market for additional kind of bolt-on business lines that could also benefit our growth in the future.

這個問題問得真好。我們預計 CBSF、Fund Finance、EFCS 和 ABLG 在未來幾季都將繼續成長。我們對此感到很興奮。我們很高興看到市場上可能存在的其他機會，即額外類型的附加業務線，這也可能有利於我們未來的成長。

And that we're equally as happy with Tim Newhouse and Rachel and Derek and everyone else on our -- and Ryan and our loan syndications and corporate services team as they've really picked things up and started our desk, which allowed us to lead deals and generate additional income.

我們對 Tim Newhouse、雷切爾 (Rachel)、德里克 (Derek) 以及我們團隊中的其他所有人以及瑞安 (Ryan) 和我們的貸款銀團和企業服務團隊同樣感到高興，因為他們確實掌握了要領並開始負責我們的部門，這使我們能夠主導交易並創造額外收入。

Our interest rate hedging solutions, we've been blessed where we have that up and running, and we've actually executed on some caps and swaps to generate some additional fee income as well as our real estate capital markets and other like business services under LSCS. So we're on a roll, and we're looking forward to the next year, and we're optimistic.

我們很幸運能夠擁有並運行我們的利率對沖解決方案，並且我們實際上已經執行了一些上限和掉期，以產生一些額外的費用收入，以及我們的房地產資本市場和 LSCS 下的其他類似商業服務。所以，我們正處於順利階段，我們對明年充滿期待，並且充滿樂觀。

Michael Rose, Raymond James.

麥可羅斯、雷蒙詹姆斯。

Just first one, I don't think it's been asked about the buyback. I guess, the way the management comments read looks like -- the way I read it is it looks like you're going to see an increase in repurchase. Just wanted to get a sense for what the updated parameters could look like that would cause yourself to buy back some more stock?

只是第一個問題，我認為沒有人問過有關回購的問題。我想，管理層的評論看起來是這樣的——我讀到的是，你會看到回購量增加。只是想了解更新後的參數會是什麼樣子，促使自己回購更多股票？

Brannon, that's yours.

布蘭農，這是你的。

Yeah, Michael, as we said in the comments, we are planning on increasing the parameters in which -- or tranches as we have them for which we buy back. Now how many we buy back is dependent on our stock price. So that may or not result in more share repurchases as well. But we were really close to buying some in Q4. We just didn't quite hit our tranche.

是的，邁克爾，正如我們在評論中所說的那樣，我們計劃增加回購的參數或分批參數。現在我們回購多少取決於我們的股票價格。所以這也可能會導致更多的股票回購。但我們在第四季確實差點就買了一些。我們只是沒有完全達到我們的目標。

And even early January, same thing, but we do plan to increase the parameters, which may or may not result in more repurchases.

甚至 1 月初也是同樣的事情，但我們確實計劃增加參數，這可能會或可能不會導致更多的回購。

All right. And maybe just one follow-up. A lot of questions today about the handoff between RESG and CIB. George, as you think about the kind of intermediate to long-term interplay, can the company be as profitable as it has been? I mean, because CIB loans are going to inherently have lower yields than RESG loans, but also will come with deposits, which should be an offset.

好的。也許只需要一個後續行動。今天有很多關於 RESG 和 CIB 之間交接的問題。喬治，當您考慮這種中期到長期的互動時，公司還能像以前一樣獲利嗎？我的意思是，因為 CIB 貸款的收益率本質上會低於 RESG 貸款，但同時也會附帶存款，這應該是一種抵消。

So just trying to get a sense for, is like a 2% ROA or above where you've historically operated, is that still in the cards? Or should we kind of level set expectations as the mix of business shifts?

所以只是想了解一下，您過去營運時的 ROA 是否達到或超過 2%，這仍然是可行的嗎？或者我們應該隨著業務組合的變化而設定一定的期望？

Yeah. That's a good question. And there are elements within our CIB group that generate comparable coupon rates to RESG loans. And Jake mentioned possibly bolting on an additional business line or two to that unit. We're -- and he mentioned we were toying with it.

是的。這是個好問題。我們 CIB 集團內的一些機構可以產生與 RESG 貸款相當的票面利率。傑克提到可能會為該部門新增一兩條業務線。我們 — — 他提到我們正在考慮這個問題。

Toying is probably a little weak word. We're pretty deep in looking at that. And some of these additions could also generate comparable or even better yields with the low-risk profile we're looking for. So I would tell you, across the board in the CIB, yes, the premise is correct. Even though some units will have higher yield, the premise is correct that the average coupon is probably going to be less than the average coupon we get on loans in RESG.

玩弄這個詞可能有點太弱了。我們對此進行了深入研究。而且其中一些新增功能還可以產生與我們所尋求的低風險狀況相當甚至更好的收益。所以我要告訴你，在 CIB 的各個方面，是的，前提是正確的。儘管有些單位的收益率會更高，但前提是正確的，即平均息票可能低於我們在 RESG 貸款中獲得的平均息票。

But we do get treasury management fees and collateral inspection fees and unused fees and various other fee elements, both loan and treasury function-related fees, that will come from the CIB portfolio, and we will get a higher volume of deposits as a percent of loans coming from that. So I think when you factor all that in, the overall return on assets, return on equity is pretty comparable. And we hold extra capital today because of our CRE concentration. As CIB grows and RESG grows but becomes less of a concentrated part of our balance sheet than it is today, over time, we can begin to work those capital ratios to a little more typical for the industry capital ratio level, and that should actually allow us to maintain or even enhance our return on equity as a result of CIB diluting the concentration of RESG.

但我們確實會從 CIB 投資組合中獲得資金管理費、抵押品檢查費、未使用費和其他各種費用要素，包括貸款和資金功能相關費用，而且我們將從中獲得更高比例的存款佔貸款的百分比。所以我認為當你把所有這些都考慮進去時，整體資產回報率和股本回報率是相當可比的。由於我們專注於企業房地產，如今我們擁有額外資本。隨著 CIB 和 RESG 的成長，但在我們的資產負債表中的集中度卻不如今天，隨著時間的推移，我們可以開始將這些資本比率調整到更符合行業資本比率水平的典型水平，而這實際上應該使我們能夠維持甚至提高我們的股本回報率，因為 CIB 稀釋了 RESG 的集中度。

So I think that the ROA not too much difference. I think in the short run, not too much difference in ROE. But as we get two, three, five years out and can be more efficient with our capital allocations because of the diversity of our balance sheet, I think it will actually improve our ROE. That's the working premise in any event.

所以我認為ROA不會差太大。我認為短期內，ROE 差異不會太大。但隨著我們在未來兩年、三年、五年內實現資產負債表的多樣性，我們的資本配置將更加有效，我認為這實際上會提高我們的 ROE。無論如何，這都是工作的前提。

Got it. Maybe just one quick follow-up. Just as it relates to what a typical CIB credit looks like in terms of size because when you start out in RESG, right, you were doing smaller loans and you eventually scaled up and now you're doing the largest -- some of the largest construction projects in the country. Is that a similar goal with CIB? Because as you would get larger in CIB, though, the coupon would inherently be less.

知道了。也許只需一次快速的跟進。就規模而言，這和典型的 CIB 信貸類似，因為當您開始從事 RESG 時，您發放的是小額貸款，最終您擴大了規模，現在您正在做最大的——一些全國最大的建築項目。這與 CIB 的目標相似嗎？因為隨著您在 CIB 中的規模不斷擴大，優惠券本身就會越來越少。

And I think we see that with kind of large corporate lending versus small and mid-sized corporate lending.

我認為，我們看到了大型企業貸款與中小型企業貸款之間的差異。

Well, I would say no, but I'm going to let Jake give you the real color on that. So Jake, talk about what you think our loan size diversification profile within CIB will be.

好吧，我想說不是，但我要讓傑克告訴你真正的情況。那麼傑克，談談你認為我們 CIB 內部的貸款規模多樣化狀況是什麼樣的。

Yeah. And it's a great question, too. As a whole, our loans are going to be noticeably smaller than RESG on the average. On average -- if you look at fourth quarter, average loan size varied between, call it, $30 million and $60 million on the CIB side versus RESG, which can be a little bit more sizable. I think the key element, though, to think about in the CIB is we're relationship-focused banking.

是的。這也是一個很好的問題。整體來看，我們的貸款金額平均將明顯低於 RESG。平均而言——如果你看第四季度，CIB 方面的平均貸款規模在 3000 萬美元至 6000 萬美元之間，而 RESG 的貸款規模可能稍微大一些。我認為，在 CIB 中要考慮的關鍵因素是我們以關係為重點的銀行業務。

So we're following the footsteps of RESG and all the other legacy business lines of OZK. And so with that, within the CIB, we're going to commit the dollars necessary to have the relationship with the customer where we've got a seat at the table, where we're helping to design the structure and the terms of the deal, where we can cross-sell some of those needed products, as George alluded to, whether that's treasury or interest rate services, our fantastic private banking and private client services, whatever that might be that our customers need, we're relationship focused.

因此，我們正在追隨 RESG 和 OZK 所有其他傳統業務線的腳步。因此，在 CIB 內部，我們將投入必要的資金與客戶建立關係，我們在其中佔有一席之地，我們正在幫助設計交易結構和條款，我們可以交叉銷售一些所需的產品，正如喬治提到的，無論是財務或利率服務，還是我們出色的私人銀行和私人客戶服務，無論我們的客戶需要什麼，我們都以關係為中心。

And so that dollar amount per deal is really going to depend on that. And so if you look at the broader book, 92%, 95%-plus of our deals are going to be a single lender. They're going to be two bank club deals with 100% voting rights and direct access to management or the broader syndications. There are opportunities where we're either leading or with the JLA or another strong named title.

所以每筆交易的金額實際上取決於此。因此，如果你看一下更廣泛的帳簿，我們會發現 92%、95% 以上的交易都來自單一貸款人。他們將達成兩家銀行俱樂部協議，擁有 100% 的投票權以及直接進入管理層或更廣泛銀團的權利。我們有機會成為領導者，或與 JLA 或其他強勢頭銜合作。

And so we're not here within the CIB to just buy paper. That's not what we're doing. That's not what we're going to do. We're relationship focused. And so those dollars that we'll commit are going to be dictated by the overall relationship.

因此，我們進入 CIB 不只是為了購買紙張。這不是我們要做的事。這不是我們要做的事。我們注重關係。因此，我們投入的資金將取決於整體關係。

And so as a whole, most of the CIB loans are going to be well under $200 million, most likely well over -- under $150 million, $100 million holds. But at the end of the day, we're going to do what's needed to lead those opportunities to harvest the best economics for us but also provide the best services, products and customer service for our clients and end users.

因此，總體而言，大多數 CIB 貸款將遠低於 2 億美元，最有可能遠高於 - 低於 1.5 億美元，持有 1 億美元。但最終，我們將盡一切努力抓住這些機會，為我們帶來最佳經濟效益，同時也為我們的客戶和最終用戶提供最好的服務、產品和客戶服務。

And Michael, I would remind you also that we announced a quarter or two ago in connection with the activation of our capital markets desk in CIB and our ability to syndicate loans, buy and sell and so forth that we've announced that, going forward, our single project hold limit in RESG is $500 million. We've only originated a handful of loans ever over that. We only have two over that threshold now and don't really consider that to be a restraint to our business but actually an opportunity to do even larger transactions in RESG but to do them on a syndicated basis.

邁克爾，我還要提醒你，我們在一兩個季度前宣布，在啟動 CIB 資本市場部門以及我們聯合貸款、買賣等能力的同時，我們還宣布，未來我們在 RESG 的單一項目持有限額為 5 億美元。我們迄今僅發放過少量貸款。目前，只有兩家公司超過了這個門檻，我們並不認為這會對我們業務造成限制，而實際上是一個在 RESG 進行更大規模交易的機會，不過是以聯合的方式進行。

So that capability of our capital markets desk within CIB is really going to help us achieve, I think, greater growth in RESG, even though we've put that fairly unrestrictive size limit on RESG single credit transactions.

因此，我認為，CIB 內資本市場部門的能力確實會幫助我們實現 RESG 的更大成長，儘管我們對 RESG 單一信貸交易設定了相當不受限制的規模限制。

Brian Martin, Janney.

布萊恩馬丁，詹尼。

Most of my things have been answered, George. Just maybe a couple of minor things. Just your comments about the yields within the RESG and the CIB group. This quarter, can you give any commentary on just now we've got a nice quarter under our belt, just kind of what -- between -- the yield difference between those two this quarter? I know it's general given all the different types, particularly in both units.

我的大部分問題都已經得到答覆了，喬治。可能只是一些小事。只是您對 RESG 和 CIB 集團內收益率的評論。本季度，您能否對我們剛剛取得的良好季度業績發表任何評論，本季度兩者之間的收益率差異是什麼？我知道，考慮到所有不同類型，這很普遍，特別是在兩個單位中。

But just any kind of commentary on just how to think about what those yields look like this quarter?

但對於本季的殖利率情況，您有何評論？

Yeah. Brian, I would tell you that the -- I'm not going to get specific in the numbers there. And honestly, I don't have those weighted average origination yields for each portfolio in front of me. But it has been consistent with our commentary. CIB has been a little lower spread than RESG, but augmented with various fees and deposit opportunities. So I think that general direction has certainly been borne out in the most recent quarter's results.

是的。布萊恩，我要告訴你──我不會給出具體的數字。老實說，我面前並沒有每個投資組合的加權平均發起收益率。但它與我們的評論一致。CIB 的利差比 RESG 略低，但費用和存款機會較多。所以我認為總體方向已經從最近一個季度的業績中得到證實。

Got you. Okay. And then should we expect any lumpiness, if you will, within the CIB group as you kind of look forward? I mean, should it be pretty consistent by quarter? Is there lumpiness we should expect with the different business units within CIB?

明白了。好的。那麼，如果您願意的話，我們是否應該預期 CIB 集團內部會出現任何波動？我的意思是，按季度來看它應該相當一致嗎？我們應該預見 CIB 內不同業務部門之間的差異嗎？

Yeah. I think it will be less lumpy than RESG has been. RESG, you're dealing with a single sector of the economy. CIB is dealing with multiple teams working across multiple sectors of the economy. And in RESG, you've got a bigger average deal size, as Jake did a good job of describing probably by a multiple of two versus CIB. So the smaller deal size, the more significant number of originations, that probably will have more originations in CIB than RESG, I would think in time as they get their full momentum going.

是的。我認為它將比 RESG 更加平穩。RESG，你們只處理經濟的一個部門。CIB 正在與跨經濟多個領域的多個團隊打交道。而在 RESG 中，平均交易規模更大，正如 Jake 很好地描述的，可能是 CIB 的兩倍。因此，交易規模越小，發起的數量就越多，我認為，隨著 CIB 和 RESG 充分發揮其發展勢頭，其發起的數量可能會比 RESG 多。

So all of that, I think, leads to less lumpiness and more kind of things leveling and averaging out with the CIB portfolio.

所以，我認為，所有這些都會減少不平衡，並使 CIB 投資組合更加趨於平穩和平均。

Got you. Okay. And then just the other -- last two for me were just the opportunities on the fee income side. Can you give any -- I mean, it looks like the fees have kind of stepped up a little bit here in the last couple of quarters. Just should we be thinking about continued gradual ramp as you get more traction on the CIB group and kind of the initiatives there and as we think into '25?

明白了。好的。然後另外兩個——對我來說，只是費用收入的機會。您能否給出任何資訊——我的意思是，看起來過去幾個季度的費用有所上漲。隨著您對 CIB 集團及其舉措的關注度不斷提高，以及我們對 25 年的展望，我們是否應該考慮繼續逐步提升？

Yes. That's certainly our hope and expectation. And as Jake alluded to, he didn't say it this way, but I think you can draw the conclusion from his comments that those guys are just getting started. And so yeah, I would expect the fee elements from that to steadily ramp up at a slow rate, but steadily climbing as they grow their business.

是的。這當然是我們的希望和期望。正如傑克所提到的，他並沒有這樣說，但我認為你可以從他的評論中得出結論，那些人才剛剛開始。是的，我預計其中的費用部分會以緩慢的速度穩定增加，但隨著業務的成長而穩定上升。

Got you. Okay. And then the last one, I don't know if anyone asked the OREO property and just kind of a delay there. Can you give any commentary on how you're thinking about this? Is it likely just go back to remarketing at this point? Or is there still hope that the purchaser is back?

明白了。好的。最後一個問題，我不知道是否有人問過 OREO 的屬性，並且問到那裡是不是有點延遲。您能否就此發表一下自己的看法？現在可能只是回到再行銷嗎？或者說購買者還存在回來的希望嗎？

Our prospective buyer on that property has paid us $6 million in either fees or non-refundable earnest money that now we've captured when we canceled that contract and applied. After the end of the quarter, we applied to capture that $3 million of non-refundable money and applied it to the loan. Their sponsor is a busy guy. Their prospective purchaser is a busy guy. He's got its focus on a lot of different things.

該房產的潛在買家已向我們支付了 600 萬美元的費用或不可退還的定金，現在我們在取消合約並提出申請時已收回了這筆錢。季度結束後，我們申請提取這 300 萬美元不可退還的資金並將其用於貸款。他們的贊助商是一位大忙人。他們的潛在購買者是個大忙人。他的關注點有很多不同的事情。

And they sort of seem to casually sort of wonder past the December 31 deadline to make their payments on our loan. We're not folks who deal with things casually. So we notified them of that. They said we'll deal with it. We're working on this, this, and this, and they didn't deal with it.

他們似乎隨意地想過，是否能在 12 月 31 日的最後期限之後償還我們的貸款。我們不是隨便處理事情的人。所以我們把這個消息通知了他們。他們說我們會處理這個問題。我們正在處理這個問題，但是他們沒有處理。

So we just sent them a notice to the title company to close the escrow and sent us the earnest money. We're continuing to have discussions with them about reinstating that contract. We're open to that. We're obviously going to get equal or better economics than we had, and they're going to have to demonstrate to us, they're going to be respectful and serious about the timelines and the obligations they're staking on if they do that. If that happens, that's fine.

因此，我們只是向產權公司發出了一份通知，要求他們結束託管，並向我們匯去了定金。我們將繼續與他們討論恢復該合約的事宜。我們對此持開放態度。我們顯然將獲得與以前相同或更好的經濟狀況，並且他們必須向我們證明，如果他們這樣做，他們將尊重並認真對待時間表和他們所承擔的義務。如果這樣，那就好了。

If it doesn't, we'll remarket the property (multiple speakers) exactly which way that's going to go.

如果沒有的話，我們將按照原有的方式重新行銷該房產（多位發言人）。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I'll now turn it back to George Gleason for closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在我將請喬治·格里森作結束語。

Let me close with one closing remark. As we noted at the end of our management comments, next quarter, we're going to change the time of our quarterly earnings call so that it is outside of market trading hours. We think as we get to be a bigger company and have more shareholders and so forth, we just think we probably need to get the call outside of trading hours. So we're going to do that. I don't want to -- we're telling you about it now, so no one reads anything into that for next quarter.

請容許我最後說一句話。正如我們在管理層評論結束時所指出的那樣，下個季度，我們將更改季度收益電話會議的時間，使其在市場交易時間之外舉行。我們認為，隨著公司規模不斷擴大，擁有更多的股東等等，我們只是認為我們可能需要在交易時間之外接到電話。所以我們會這麼做。我不想——我們現在就告訴你這個，這樣就不會有人對下個季度的情況有任何猜測。

We're just -- that's going to become our regular normal time to be outside of trading hours. And we'll announce the details of that when we announce the earnings call and time to release earnings next quarter. Thank you so much. Have a great day. Thanks for joining today's call.

我們只是——這將成為我們交易時間之外的正常時間。我們將在宣布收益電話會議和下個季度收益發佈時間時公佈詳細資訊。太感謝了。祝你有美好的一天。感謝您參加今天的電話會議。

That concludes our call.

我們的通話到此結束。

Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.

感謝您參加今天的會議。該計劃確實結束了。您現在可以斷開連線。