Bank Ozk (OZK) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Bank OZK fourth quarter and full year 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加Bank OZK 2025年第四季及全年業績電話會議。（操作人員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。

I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Jay Staley, Managing Director of Investor Relations and Corporate Development. Please go ahead.

現在我謹將會議交給今天的主講人，投資者關係和企業發展部總經理傑伊·斯泰利先生。請繼續。

Good morning. I'm Jay Staley, Managing Director of Investor Relations and Corporate Development for Bank OZK. Thank you for joining our call this morning and participating in our question-and-answer session. In today's Q&A session, we may make forward-looking statements about our expectations, estimates and outlook for the future.

早安.我是 Jay Staley，OZK 銀行投資者關係和企業發展部總經理。感謝您今天上午參加我們的電話會議並參與問答環節。在今天的問答環節中，我們可能會對未來的預期、估計和展望做出前瞻性陳述。

Please refer to our earnings release, management comments, financial supplement and other public filings for more information on the various factors and risks that may cause actual results or outcomes to vary from those projected in or implied by such forward-looking statements. Joining me on the call to take your questions are George Gleason, Chairman and CEO; Brannon Hamblen, President; Cindy Wolfe, Chief Operating Officer; Tim Hicks, Chief Financial Officer; and Jake Munn, President, Corporate and Institutional Banking.

有關可能導致實際結果或業績與此類前瞻性聲明中預測或暗示的結果存在差異的各種因素和風險的更多信息，請參閱我們的盈利報告、管理層評論、財務補充文件和其他公開文件。與我一起參加電話會議回答您問題的有：董事長兼首席執行官喬治·格里森；總裁布蘭農·漢布倫；首席營運官辛迪·沃爾夫；首席財務官蒂姆·希克斯；以及企業和機構銀行總裁傑克·蒙恩。

We'll now open up the lines for your questions. Let me now ask our operator, Shannon, to remind our listeners how to queue in for questions.

現在我們將開放提問環節。現在請我們的接線生香儂提醒聽眾如何排隊提問。

(Operator Instructions) Stephen Scouten, Piper Sandler.

（操作員說明）Stephen Scouten、Piper Sandler。

I wanted to start with one kind of around the loan sale in the quarter and kind of your outlook on credit, net charge-offs and such. And maybe wondering what could lead you all to potentially lean further into the potential loan sales like you had on that one credit this quarter? And kind of given the commentary and the management comments around 2027 loss trends and a belief that those will improve kind of what gives you confidence to that end? And in that kind of positive outlook as we get beyond the CRE cycle?

我想先談談本季的貸款銷售情況，以及您對信貸、淨沖銷等方面的展望。或許你們會想知道，是什麼原因導致你們像本季那筆信貸交易一樣，進一步加大對潛在貸款銷售的投入？考慮到 2027 年虧損趨勢的評論和管理層的評論，以及他們認為這些趨勢將會改善的觀點，是什麼讓你對最終結果充滿信心？我們能否在這種積極的展望下度過商業地產週期？

Yes. Great question. Thank you, Stephen. I appreciate it. Brannon, do you want to talk about the loan sale first, and then I'll take the second part of his question.

是的。問得好。謝謝你，史蒂芬。謝謝。布蘭農，你想先談談貸款出售的事，然後再回答他問題的第二部分嗎？

Absolutely, Steven. Good morning. Great to have you, great to have the question. Appreciate it. Yes. We would be happy to say that contrary to some speculation that was out there. We sold that loan at par. We collected all our outstanding principal, all our accrued interest on the note sale. But I would reiterate what we said in our comments, Stephen, that the note sale does not reflect any change in our strategy.

當然，史蒂文。早安.很高興你能來，也很高興收到你的問題。謝謝。是的。我們很高興地表示，這與一些外界的猜測相反。我們以面額出售了那筆貸款。我們收回了所有未償還的本金和所有應計利息。但我想重申我們在評論中所說的，史蒂芬，這次債券出售並不反映我們策略的任何變化。

We've sold our ESG loans from time to time in the past in this particular case, and I would say that our note sales historically have been sort of one-off unique cases. In this case, there was an overlap between the project that was -- that secured that loan in multiple situations where the sponsor there and its equity partners were no longer willing to or able to support those projects.

過去，我們曾不時出售 ESG 貸款，就此而言，我認為我們以往的票據出售都是一些特例。在這種情況下，由於發起人及其股權合作夥伴不再願意或能夠支持這些項目，導致多個項目重疊，而這些項目正是當年獲得貸款的項目。

And that would include the large land development in Lincoln Yards that we sold in the third quarter, the Lincoln Yards life science project that's classified of standard non-accrual, so it's a particular fact pattern. It doesn't happen often. It's not a change in strategy. It's just the normal course of business as those occur.

這其中就包括我們在第三季度出售的林肯碼頭大型土地開發項目，以及被歸類為標準非應計項目的林肯碼頭生命科學項目，因此這是一個特殊的事實模式。這種情況並不常發生。這不是戰略改變。這只是正常業務流程的一部分。

All right. And Stephen, on the other question you asked, we've given guidance in our management comments that we expect results to look a lot like(technical difficulty) our 2024 and 2025 results in various respects. We've also detailed in considerable length in the comments there, the challenging environment that our sponsors have been operating in for a number of years.

好的。史蒂芬，關於你提出的另一個問題，我們在管理意見中已經給出指導，我們預計結果在各個方面將與 2024 年和 2025 年的結果非常相似（技術難題）。我們在評論中也詳細闡述了我們的贊助商多年來所面臨的充滿挑戰的經營環境。

And that should be no surprise to anyone because we've talked about it, particularly at length over the last 14 quarters as we have built that ACL up, and we've depicted that ACL build in a chart in figure 23 of our management comments. So there was a build based on the expectation that the longer this challenging cycle drag on for our sponsors, the more likely it would be that individual sponsors on some individual projects would run into trouble and either choose to no longer support their projects or become unable to support their projects. And we've seen that over the last couple of years.

這對任何人來說都不應該感到驚訝，因為我們已經討論過這個問題，尤其是在過去 14 個季度裡，我們一直在構建 ACL，並且我們在管理層評論的圖 23 中用圖表描繪了 ACL 的構建過程。因此，我們基於這樣的預期進行構建：對於我們的贊助商而言，這種充滿挑戰的周期持續的時間越長，一些特定項目的個別贊助商就越有可能遇到麻煩，要么選擇不再支持他們的項目，要么無力繼續支持他們的項目。過去幾年我們已經看到了這一點。

And I think we've managed that really well and the ACL build was a prudent preparation for the environment we're in. I think we're getting towards the later stages, really in the late stages of the CRE cycle. We're seeing a lot of green shoots out there on leasing and property sales, we're seeing a lot of refinances because of the surge in credit availability, liquidity that has really manifested itself in the sector in the last couple of quarters.

我認為我們在這方面做得非常好，ACL 的建構是對我們當前環境的審慎準備。我認為我們已經進入了CRE週期的後期階段，實際上是後期階段。我們看到租賃和房地產銷售方面出現了許多復甦跡象，由於信貸供應激增，流動性在過去幾個季度中在該行業中得到了充分體現，因此我們看到了很多再融資。

And obviously, the 100 basis points of Fed fund rate reductions in late in the last four months of 2024 and the 5 basis points of additional Fed fund rate reductions in the last four-months of last year are providing some relief to sponsors on the interest cost. So we're not all the way through the cycle, but we think 2026 is pretty near the end of working through that cycle.

顯然，聯準會在 2024 年最後四個月末將基金利率下調了 100 個基點，以及去年最後四個月又將基金利率下調了 5 個基點，這為貸款發起人減輕了利息成本的壓力。所以，我們還沒有完全度過這個週期，但我們認為 2026 年已經非常接近這個週期的尾聲了。

And we think we see a decided upturn in not just improvements in the conditions for our sponsors, but also new volume and so forth. There's been a real constraint on new origination volume in recent years, and a lot of that is just the lack of equity and the fact that the market needed to balance supply demand, we're seeing that come more and more into balance in various markets on various product types across the country.

我們認為，不僅贊助商的條件有所改善，而且新業務量等也出現了明顯的成長。近年來，新發放貸款量一直受到嚴重限制，這主要是由於資金流動性不足以及市場需要平衡供需關係所造成的。我們看到，在全國各地不同市場的各種產品類型中，供需關係正變得越來越平衡。

So we think our guidance is good, and we're very optimistic about 2027. We think 2026 is another year like 2025 where we're just working through the environment. with our sponsors.

所以我們認為我們的預測是準確的，我們對 2027 年非常樂觀。我們認為2026年和2025年一樣，我們將和贊助商一起努力解決環境問題。

Got it. Very helpful context there. And then just one other one for me around fee income growth potential. I mean, I know that it's never really been a big part of the story or a demonstrable proportion of kind of income at DK, but it sounds like there's a lot of tailwinds there with the investments that have been made in CIB.

知道了。這裡提供的背景資訊很有幫助。然後，我還有一個關於手續費收入成長潛力的問題。我的意思是，我知道這從來都不是DK故事的重要組成部分，也不是DK收入中可證明的比例，但聽起來CIB的投資有很多利好因素。

So I just kind of curious what that could look like, not only in 2026, but kind of beyond and if there -- if you feel like there's really longer-term tailwinds there on the fee income side of things and if that could be a multiyear kind of growth pattern.

所以我很好奇這會是什麼樣子，不僅是 2026 年，還有更遠的未來，以及——你是否覺得在費用收入方面真的有長期的利好因素，以及這是否會成為一種多年的成長模式。

Stephen, we're early in the process. So we haven't talked about it a lot. But clearly, if you read our comments closely, not only do we want to continue to achieve this diversification in our earning assets, which is well in tow and clearly evident. But we also want to see longer term. And you won't see huge strides in this in the short term. But longer term, we want to see fee income become a much larger part of our revenue.

史蒂芬，我們還處於早期階段。所以我們很少談論這件事。但很明顯，如果你仔細閱讀我們的評論，你會發現我們不僅希望繼續實現盈利資產的多元化，而且這一目標正在穩步推進，顯而易見。但我們也想看到更長遠的發展。短期內，你不會看到這方面有巨大進展。但從長遠來看，我們希望手續費收入在我們收入中的比例更大。

So we're so early in it. We've not talked about it a lot. We've given some general hints about it. But perhaps Jake could comment on CIB and then I'll comment on a couple of other items, Jake, do you want to talk about the fee income pieces of what you're doing.

所以我們現在還處於非常早期的階段。我們沒有過多談論這件事。我們已經給了一些大致的提示。不過，或許傑克可以先談談CIB，然後我再談談其他幾個面向。傑克，你想談談你目前業務的費用收入部分嗎？

Yes, happy to, George. I appreciate it, Stephen. Good question there. As you all know, we've discussed on previous earnings calls, our loan syndication and Corporate Services business line within CIB was planted about 18-months ago and continues to build those services provide kind of shared services bank-wide, including our capital markets program.

是的，我很樂意，喬治。謝謝你，史蒂芬。問得好。如大家所知，我們在先前的財報電話會議上討論過，CIB 內的銀團貸款和企業服務業務線大約在 18 個月前成立，並持續發展這些服務，為全行提供某種共享服務，包括我們的資本市場計劃。

It includes our interest rate hedging program, our loan syndications desk, our permanent placement solutions, and also include some foreign and some additional capabilities in cities that George alluded to that we'll be rolling out here over the course of the next couple of quarters. All of that will continue to grow in line with CIB.

它包括我們的利率對沖計劃、銀團貸款部門、永久安置解決方案，還包括喬治提到的一些海外業務和其他一些城市的業務，我們將在未來幾個季度內推出這些業務。所有這些都將隨著CIB的成長而繼續成長。

CIB is their primary customer base for those shared services. But that being said, we're starting to see some nice penetration, for instance, with the interest rate hedging providing caps to our RESG customers, whether that be that or swaps that we're providing to some of our community bank customers. We are starting to see some nice growth and lift there through LSCS and some of those non-interest income initiatives that we're rolling out.

CIB是他們共享服務的主要客戶群。但即便如此，我們也開始看到一些不錯的滲透，例如，利率對沖為我們的 RESG 客戶提供了利率上限，無論是這種對沖還是我們為一些社區銀行客戶提供的互換。我們已經開始看到 LSCS 和我們正在推出的一些非利息收入計劃帶來了一些不錯的成長和提升。

And then thank you, Jake. Outside of CIB, obviously, we're into now our about to start our third year in the mortgage business. It was a very slow rollout. In year one, we gained traction in this last year, and we expect to continue to gain traction. So mortgage lending fee income by originating loans as many, many banks do, most banks for resell in the secondary market is a good source of fee income for us.

然後，謝謝你，傑克。除了CIB之外，我們顯然已經進入抵押貸款業務的第三年了。推廣過程非常緩慢。第一年，我們在最後一年取得了進展，我們預計會繼續取得進展。因此，像許多銀行一樣，透過發放貸款（大多數銀行會在二級市場轉售貸款）來獲得抵押貸款手續費收入，對我們來說是一個很好的手續費收入來源。

And then we've really put an increased emphasis on growing our trust and wealth business really venturing into the wealth sector more so than just the fiduciary trust business that has historically been what we've done, but we're growing both those parts of that business. And then we've also launched a private banking business. It's small.

然後，我們更加重視發展信託和財富業務，真正涉足財富領域，而不僅限於我們過去一直從事的受託信託業務，但我們正在發展該業務的這兩個部分。此外，我們也推出了私人銀行業務。它很小。

We're just really working with the first group of customers that -- we've carefully selected to help us work out all the bugs and make sure that we're delivering the quality of service and enhanced experience that those private banking customers need but that is a good opportunity for revenue. And of course, we're enhancing and working really hard to increase our treasury management services, which is a large lift because we really want to improve that because of the fact that a lot of our CIB customers have needs in that regard for specification and products that we've not had in the past that we did not need for our smaller commercial bank C&I customers.

我們目前正與第一批客戶密切合作——我們精心挑選了這些客戶，以幫助我們解決所有問題，確保我們能夠提供私人銀行客戶所需的高品質服務和更佳體驗，但這同時也是一個不錯的收入機會。當然，我們也在努力提升和加強我們的資金管理服務，這是一項巨大的提升，因為我們真的想改進這項服務，因為我們的許多企業及投資銀行客戶在這方面有需求，需要我們過去沒有的規格和產品，而我們規模較小的商業銀行C&I客戶也不需要這些。

So we've spent a lot of money, hired a lot of people built a lot of technology, acquired a lot of technology to launch all of these different lines of business. I think you'll see some incremental improvements in the non-interest income line in '26. As a result of that, I think you'll see the real impact of that in 2027 and subsequent year.

因此，我們投入了大量資金，僱用了很多人，開發了許多技術，收購了許多技術，以啟動所有這些不同的業務線。我認為2026年非利息收入將會出現一些逐步改善。因此，我認為在 2027 年及以後的年份，你會看到這件事的真正影響。

Got it. Appreciate the time.

知道了。感謝您抽出時間。

Manan Gosalia, Morgan Stanley.

馬南‧戈薩利亞，摩根士丹利。

So I wanted to start on credit, particularly in office and life sciences in the management comments. Can you give us some more color on what you're seeing there I guess, especially on the life sciences side, how long do you think it will take for the life sciences market to rebound? What you're hearing from sponsors? How have those conversations changed? And if you could also remind us on the levels of protection that are built into some of the larger life sciences loans.

所以我想從信貸開始，尤其是在管理評論中的辦公室和生命科學領域。能否更詳細地介紹您觀察到的情況，尤其是在生命科學領域，您認為生命科學市場需要多久才能復甦？你從贊助商那裡聽到了什麼？這些對話發生了哪些變化？另外，能否也提醒我們一下，一些規模較大的生命科學貸款包含哪些等級的保護措施？

Brannon, you want to comment on life science and office as well, if you would like to?

布蘭農，如果你願意的話，你也想就生命科學和辦公室方面發表一些看法嗎？

Absolutely. Thanks for the question. And as we've said in the past, we've seen different results, different projects, different markets. We've got some that have had great success and others that have been slower. I think faced some strong headwinds, you've had all the different macroeconomic factors that we've experienced and very specifically cuts to funding from NIH, and its impact on demand for space over the last couple of years, a lot less in sort of the venture capital raise space.

絕對地。謝謝你的提問。正如我們過去所說，我們看到了不同的結果、不同的項目、不同的市場。有些專案取得了巨大的成功，而有些專案進展則比較緩慢。我認為我們面臨著一些強烈的逆風，我們經歷了各種不同的宏觀經濟因素，特別是美國國立衛生研究院 (NIH) 削減資金，以及過去幾年對太空需求的影響，尤其是在風險投資領域。

But the good side of that coin is there hasn't been really any additional spec life science start across the country. There have been starts with pre-leasing in them. And we actually see that our originators see those out there. And we've got -- we see tenants expanding so it's a little bit of a dichotomy in some of those outcomes.

但好處是，全國並沒有新增任何生命科學領域的專業課程。這些項目已經開始進行預租。事實上，我們發現我們的創辦人也看到了這些。我們看到租戶正在擴張，所以在某些結果上出現了一些矛盾。

But again, the good news is not additional supply being added to the challenge and you've got continued, albeit muted demand in some markets chewing into that. It's going to take time. You see a great impact from in certain markets, demand that's really stimulated capital investment in AI that's starting to push in to life science as you've got markets that have a dearth of traditional office space.

但好消息是，供應並沒有進一步增加，而且在某些市場，儘管需求疲軟，但仍在持續消耗供應。這需要時間。在某些市場，人工智慧的巨大影響顯而易見，其需求刺激了對人工智慧的資本投資，並開始向生命科學領域推進，因為有些市場缺乏傳統的辦公空間。

And as we've said, life science provides a great alternative for those users so you've got some winners, you've got some losers, but you've got absorption slowly moving forward. It's going to take some time. As George said, we've seen this coming for appropriately managed our in anticipation of that. And we -- as we've said, entered these deals at low leverage and with strong sponsorship and we're pleased to see a number of those sponsors continue to continue to support those.

正如我們所說，生命科學為這些用戶提供了一個很好的替代方案，所以你會看到一些贏家，也會看到一些輸家，但吸收正在緩慢地向前發展。這需要一些時間。正如喬治所說，我們早就預料到這種情況會發生，並為此做好了適當的準備。正如我們所說，我們以較低的槓桿率和強大的贊助實力達成了這些交易，我們很高興看到其中許多贊助商繼續支持這些交易。

I mean you've seen some, obviously, that are no longer willing or able to support them. And we've been clear reporting on those, but it's going to take some time on the bottom line with life science and we're, again, pleased to see the support in the interim. -- office has really been a positive story for us.

我的意思是，很顯然，你也看到了一些不再願意或無法繼續支持他們的人。我們一直如實報導這些情況，但生命科學領域的業績復甦需要一些時間，我們很高興看到在此期間得到的支持。 ——辦公室的情況對我們來說確實是一個正面的消息。

Really pleased with the trends that we're seeing in some office markets in our portfolio, in particular, especially some projects that had more limited activity over the last 12 to 18 months are starting to see benefit office leases are 5- to 7- to 10-year leases frequently and takes a while for the portfolio of leases in any market to roll and then again, there's continued sort of incremental positive impact from return to office.

我們對投資組合中一些辦公市場的趨勢感到非常滿意，尤其是一些在過去 12 到 18 個月活動較為有限的項目開始受益，辦公租賃通常是 5 年、7 年或 10 年的租期，任何市場的租賃組合都需要一段時間才能完成輪換，而且，重返辦公室會帶來持續的、漸進式的積極影響。

And as these tenants begin to look around making leasing decisions about where their new home is going to be, that flight to quality that we've talked so much about historically remains very apparent. We saw good lease on a number of our projects in various markets during the fourth quarter.

當這些租戶開始四處尋找並決定他們的新家在哪裡時，我們一直以來都在談論的這種追求高品質生活的趨勢仍然非常明顯。第四季度，我們在各個市場的多個專案都取得了良好的租賃業績。

And we're tracking a number of other leases that are nearing lease execution in the near term. So on the whole, really good quarter for office leasing in many of our projects in many markets and more to come based on what we're seeing. And beyond that, office is showing a great deal of liquidity. As I reviewed the last 12 months, realized that we -- in terms of projects paying off office was second behind multifamily.

我們也追蹤其他一些即將在近期簽署的租賃協議。總的來說，本季我們許多專案在許多市場的辦公大樓租賃情況都非常好，而且根據我們目前看到的，未來還會有更多好轉。除此之外，辦公大樓市場也展現出極大的流動性。回顧過去 12 個月，我意識到，就已收回成本的專案而言，辦公大樓專案僅次於多戶住宅專案。

And I think that's true over the last six-months as well. So we've continued to see good liquidity in the market, in particular, on the credit side that is supporting refinance activity. So not just from a leasing perspective, but from a capital investment perspective, we've seen good results on the office side.

我認為過去六個月的情況也是如此。因此，我們持續看到市場流動性良好，尤其是在信貸方面，這支撐了再融資活動。因此，不僅從租賃角度來看，而且從資本投資角度來看，我們在辦公大樓方面也取得了良好的成果。

And to put an emphasis on Brannon's point about the liquidity returning to the office space. I think we had four office projects refinanced in the last quarter and one of our mixed-use projects that refinanced out was -- had a significant office component within it. And some of the office projects we've seen refinanced in the last year, a lot of them, in fact, have had no leasing.

為了強調布蘭農關於流動性重返辦公大樓市場的觀點。我認為我們在上個季度完成了四個辦公專案再融資，其中一個混合用途專案也完成了再融資，該專案中包含大量辦公空間。在過去一年中，我們看到一些辦公大樓專案進行了再融資，但實際上，其中許多專案根本沒有出租。

But the liquidity is there and people recognize the value in these high-quality buildings and the fact that the supply-demand metrics are normalizing and these things that have been slow to lease or getting to the point that leases are very likely to be in the near term. So that's providing some support for the space and a lot of liquidity and new investment in refinancing product that is out there.

但流動性是存在的，人們認識到這些高品質建築的價值，以及供需指標正在正常化的事實，這些租賃進展緩慢或即將完成租賃的房產很可能在短期內完成租賃。因此，這為該領域提供了一些支持，並為市場上現有的再融資產品帶來了大量的流動性和新的投資。

And similarly, in some markets around the country, you're beginning to not have the office available in the market that's built that meets the needs of some of the sponsors, and that really is providing an opportunity for life science projects to fill with space and that's office use space or another alternative you space. And Brannon mentioned, particularly in the San Francisco Silicon Valley area AI is driving a lot of demand for that space and creating guys that are kicking the tires and walking and looking at some of the projects we've got in the life science space there for AI usage. So it's the environment is getting more constructive in a noticeable way.

同樣地，在全國的一些市場中，已經建成的辦公大樓無法滿足一些贊助商的需求，這實際上為生命科學計畫提供了一個機會，讓他們能夠找到辦公空間或其他替代空間。布蘭農提到，尤其是在舊金山矽谷地區，人工智慧正在推動對該領域的大量需求，並催生出一些正在考察和研究我們在生命科學領域中一些人工智慧應用專案的專業人士。所以，環境正在以一種顯而易見的方式變得更加積極向上。

Got it. So your conversations with the sponsors on the life sciences side kind of indicated that they're in for the long haul, they're willing to support the properties for more time. And any thoughts on I guess, the protections that are built into some of the larger life sciences loans that you have out there?

知道了。所以你與生命科學領域贊助商的對話表明，他們打算長期投資，他們願意在更長的時間內支持這些計畫。那麼，對於市面上一些規模較大的生命科學貸款中內建的保護措施，您有什麼看法？

Well, we are dependent upon sponsor support to your point. I think the mood in the attitude is generally every sponsor is different. Every project is different. The mood and the attitude is somewhat improved. Our guys had a meeting with our largest life science loan, our largest loan, the leadership team, the management team on that, that group came Dallas to just give us an update and report on where they were.

沒錯，正如您所說，我們確實依賴贊助商的支持。我認為總的來說，贊助商的態度各不相同。每個項目都不一樣。情緒和態度有所改善。我們的人員與我們最大的生命科學貸款專案（也是我們最大的貸款專案）的領導團隊和管理團隊舉行了會議，該團隊來到達拉斯向我們報告了最新情況和進展。

I was not part of that meeting, but my understanding that was a very constructive, very positive meeting with plans and commitments in place to really push that project onto a higher level of leasing and activity. So we're cautiously optimistic will every life science project get to the finish line and have a successful outcome with its current sponsorship and capital partners, maybe not. There may be a casualty or two along the way.

我沒有參加那次會議，但據我了解，那是一次非常有建設性、非常積極的會議，制定了計劃和承諾，以真正推動該項目達到更高的租賃和活動水平。因此，我們對每個生命科學計畫能否在現有贊助商和資本合作夥伴的幫助下順利完成並取得成功持謹慎樂觀態度，也許並非如此。過程中可能會有一兩名傷亡人員。

But I think generally, it reflects what we've seen from our sponsors. And let me explain what I mean in that. In the last -- in this cycle, we've had four RESG assets that went into foreclosure or we acquired title to really didn't, I think, foreclose on any of them. We required title to them in satisfaction of the debt. Three of those were liquidated in the last year, one in the third quarter, the largest at Chicago plant, two were liquidated in the fourth quarter.

但我認為總體而言，這反映了我們從贊助商那裡看到的情況。讓我解釋一下我的意思。在過去的周期中，我們有四項 RESG 資產進入了止贖程序，或者我們獲得了所有權，但實際上，我認為我們並沒有對其中任何一項進行止贖。我們要求取得這些物品的所有權以償還債務。其中三家在去年被清算，一家在第三季被清算（芝加哥工廠規模最大），兩家在第四季被清算。

And the one project we had that didn't sell was under contract for a couple of years and the sponsor paid us $12 million in contract extension fees and forfeited earnest money on that, that Los Angeles plant. So a relatively small number of project. I will comment someone wrote that we had taken a charge-off on that L.A. land. That is not correct.

我們唯一一個沒賣出去的項目，已經簽訂了幾年的合同，贊助商支付了我們 1200 萬美元的合同延期費，並且放棄了定金，那就是洛杉磯的那個工廠。因此，項目數量相對較少。我要評論一下，有人寫道我們已經對洛杉磯的那塊土地進行了債務註銷。那不正確。

We moved it to OREO at our book value and the reduction in the value of that on our carrying value on that over the last couple of years as a result of forfeited earnings money, not any charge-offs. So we've never taken a charge on that asset and feel like we're appropriately valued on it now. But we've got 4 loans on nonaccrual.

我們按照帳面價值將其轉移到 OREO，並且由於過去幾年因收益損失（而非任何沖銷）導致帳面價值減少。因此，我們從未對該資產提列費用，並認為我們目前對該資產的估值是合理的。但我們有 4 筆非應計貸款。

So a relatively small number of RESG assets where the sponsors have been unable or unwilling to continue to support the asset. The flip side of that is detail, and we've been giving you this information for most of the last 14 quarters on figure 28 of our management comments. And just to give you a data point, last quarter, we had 49 loans that were, that had an extension of their term.

因此，只有相對較少的 RESG 資產，其發起人無法或不願繼續支持該資產。另一方面是細節，在過去 14 個季度的大部分時間裡，我們都在管理層評論的圖 28 中向您提供了這些資訊。舉個例子，上個季度，我們有 49 筆貸款的期限得到了延長。

We collected $56.7 million in reserve deposits $7.6 million in modification fees, $45.1 million in unscheduled principal paydowns in connection with those loans. If you look over the last 14 quarters since the Fed started raising rates, that is $1.3 billion in additional equity contributions, $866 million of reserve deposits, $429 million in unscheduled principal paydowns.

我們收取了 5,670 萬美元的儲備金、760 萬美元的修改費以及與這些貸款相關的 4,510 萬美元的非計畫本金償還款。如果回顧聯準會開始升息以來的過去 14 個季度，就會發現新增股權投入 13 億美元，儲備存款 8.66 億美元，非計畫本金償還 4.29 億美元。

And I don't know the fee number, but tens of millions of dollars in fee income to us on those loans. And what that tells you is that plus or minus of our RESG loans are experiencing and continue to experience good sponsor support. Will there be a few more fall out before we get to the end of the cycle? Probably so. But we built our ACL from $30 million to $60 million in anticipation that there would be a few bumps in the road.

我不知道具體的手續費數字，但這些貸款為我們帶來了數千萬美元的手續費收入。這說明，我們的 RESG 貸款總體上得到了贊助商的良好支持，而這種支持仍在繼續。在本輪週期結束之前，是否還會出現一些其他的後果？很有可能。但我們把ACL的預算從3000萬美元增加到6000萬美元，就是考慮到前進的道路上可能會遇到一些坎坷。

So we feel like we've prudently prepared for this. We feel like we've done a really good job of working through and liquidating these assets when we've had cases where the sponsors have given up, and we're well positioned to get through the rest of this cycle in good form.

所以，我們覺得我們已經為此做好了充分的準備。我們感覺，在發起人放棄的情況下，我們已經很好地處理和清算了這些資產，我們有能力以良好的狀態度過本輪週期的剩餘階段。

Brian Martin, Janney.

布萊恩馬丁，詹尼。

Thanks for all the commentary thus far. Just maybe just in terms of -- it doesn't sound like much in the way of additional sponsors likely to maybe not be supporting these based on kind of your commentary. But just in terms of the resolution of the current level of non-performing’s, can you talk about maybe the timeline in terms of any big chunks you expect to see get resolved in time frame? Just kind of how you expect to work some of that down as you go forward?

感謝大家迄今為止的所有評論。或許只是就這一點而言——根據你的評論來看，似乎不會有很多額外的贊助商支持這些項目。但就目前不合格員工的解決而言，您能否談談您預計在某個時間範圍內解決哪些重大問題的時間表？你打算如何逐步解決這些問題？

Well, on the Boston property, for example, the sponsor on that project would have done an extension renewal and put up their part of the required capital to do that. There are two equity partners in that transaction. Really decided that they were not going to put up more capital until they got a lease. And our rule is you pay, you stay, you don't pay, you don't stay.

例如，在波士頓的這處房產上，該計畫的發起人會進行延期續約，並為此投入所需的資金。該交易涉及兩家股權合夥人。他們真的下定決心，在拿到租約之前不會再投入更多資金。我們的規則是：付錢就住，不付錢就走。

So when they ask us to give them nine months or so, six-months, whatever to work through the lease without making any payments on the loan, we just said that's not the way we operate. If you want time, you have to pay for the time, if you don't pay for the time, then we're going to move to resolve the asset. So the resolution of that asset can occur several ways.

所以當他們要求我們給他們九個月、六個月或其他任何時間來履行租賃合同，而無需支付任何貸款時，我們只是說這不是我們的經營方式。如果你想要時間，就必須為時間付費；如果你不為時間付費，那麼我們將採取措施解決資產問題。因此，該資產的處置方式有多種。

Number one is the sponsor in that transaction is out trying to put together new equity partners to continue with the successful outcome of that project. We're hopeful they'll be successful, but we're also dual tracking our acquiring title to that property so that if they're not successful, we're ready to take that asset over and continue to move that asset forward in a constructive way.

第一，交易的發起人正在努力尋找新的股權合作夥伴，以繼續推動該計畫的成功。我們希望他們能夠成功，但我們也在雙管齊下地收購該物業的所有權，這樣如果他們失敗了，我們就可以接管該資產，並以建設性的方式繼續推進該資產的發展。

So obviously, if they raise new capital, that could get resolved and our view on that could change dramatically and quickly. On the flip side, if we have to take that over, then we'll look for opportunities to sell it if we can get a favorable price on a sale, we would sell it. If not, we'll lease it up and then sell it when we get it into a better shape.

所以很明顯，如果他們籌集到新的資金，這個問題就可以解決，我們對此的看法也可能會迅速發生巨大變化。另一方面，如果我們必須接管它，那麼我們會尋找機會出售它；如果我們能以優惠的價格出售，我們就會出售它。如果不行，我們就先租出去，等修繕好之後再賣掉。

I would comment also on that property, they're with some commentary out there that the lease situation has blown up and gone. That is not our understanding of the situation. The sponsor continues to be actively engaged with the tenant. Prospective tenant, the prospective tenant. Our understanding is they just delayed their process for about six-months.

關於那處房產，我也想說幾句，外界有一些評論說租賃情況已經徹底惡化了。我們並不認同這種觀點。贊助商繼續積極與租戶溝通。潛在租戶，這位潛在租戶。據我們了解，他們只是將流程推遲了大約六個月。

And instead of making a decision early in the year, expect to make a decision mid-year third-quarter or so forth. And I think our building is still in the kind of the inside lane on the opportunity there to work out a lease with that sponsor. It's still early, but that activity is still ongoing. And we're working with the sponsor and whether we acquire title or the sponsor recaps, we'll work very collaboratively with this sponsor.

而且，預計不會在年初就做出決定，而是在年中、第三季或更晚的時候做出決定。我認為我們的大樓仍然處於與該贊助商達成租賃協議的有利位置。現在還為時過早，但這項活動仍在進行中。我們正在與贊助商合作，無論我們最終獲得冠名權還是贊助商的剩餘權益，我們都會與這位贊助商密切合作。

We have a good relationship with the sponsor, and we'll work very collaboratively to make sure that those ongoing leasing efforts are maximized the opportunity. So the office building that's on nonaccrual in Santa Monica, we're pursuing opportunities that would result in a sale of that asset fairly quickly. The Chicago life science deal, the sponsor is working on a short sell opportunity on that.

我們與贊助商關係良好，我們將密切合作，確保正在進行的租賃工作能最大限度地發揮其潛力。因此，位於聖​​莫尼卡的那棟非應計收益辦公大樓，我們正在尋求機會，以便盡快出售該資產。芝加哥生命科學領域的這筆交易，發起人正在尋求做空機會。

We've written it down based on our understanding of the financial metrics of that short sale -- if they accomplish that, then we could be paid off quickly over the next couple of quarters, however long it takes to close that. If they don't accomplish that sale at a price that's satisfactory to us, then we'll take that property and sell it the Baltimore land we've talked about at length in previous conversations and we're working on a potential sale of that property right now.

我們根據對短售財務指標的理解寫下了這份報告——如果他們成功完成短售，那麼無論完成短售需要多長時間，我們都可以在接下來的幾個季度內迅速收回成本。如果他們無法以我們滿意的價格完成出售，那麼我們將收回該房產，並將其出售給我們之前詳細討論過的巴爾的摩土地，我們目前正在努力促成該房產的潛在出售。

We're also working, continue to work with the current sponsor on our taking title and continuing to integrate our development and liquidation of that property. We have other developments that the sponsors successfully achieved on that -- in that area. So it's hard to know when these things actually come to fruition. There are variable multiple paths that each other then could take, but we're working those things diligently.

我們也正在與目前的贊助商合作，繼續推動我們取得產權、繼續整合該物業的開發和清算工作。贊助商在該領域也取得了其他一些成功進展。所以很難知道這些事情何時才能真正實現。彼此之間可能會有多種不同的發展路徑，但我們正在努力推動這些工作。

And sometimes you resolve things fairly quickly. The thee pieces of OREO we sold last year. there were RESG assets. All those were resolved in a pretty short time frame for sale of a piece of foreclosed real estate. The flip side of that is the one we've still got there, while we've made a lot of money on extension fees over the last couple of years with that and got a nice paydown on our carrying value of that OREO through the for to earn money, we work on that thing, two to three-years with that prospective buyer.

有時候，問題很快就能解決。我們去年賣出的那三塊奧利奧餅乾，都是RESG資產。所有這些問題都在很短的時間內得到解決，最終促成了這處被取消贖回權的房產的出售。另一方面，我們還有另一處房產，雖然過去幾年我們透過延期費賺了很多錢，並且透過與潛在買家合作，從該房產的帳面價值中獲得了不錯的收益，但我們仍然需要與潛在買家合作兩到三年才能完成交易。

And it didn't come to fruition and now we're back in the market with it. So some of them will work out fairly quickly. Some of them for one region other will take a bit longer to work out. We try to be very constructive about the way we approach these things. And I'll give you a good example. Our oldest substandard accrual asset in the RESG portfolio is that development there like Tahoe, California.

但最終未能實現，現在我們又帶著它重返市場。所以其中一些問題很快就會解決。有些方法對某些地區適用，而對其他地區則需要更長時間才能奏效。我們努力以非常建設性的方式來處理這些事情。我給你舉個例子。RESG 投資組合中最老的次級應計資產是位於加州太浩湖附近的開發案。

And that thing has been substandard accrual since 2019. And with special mention for some number of quarters, I believe. But for that, I don't remember when it went on special mention. But you hear the adage a lot of times about problem assets and the old adage that everybody seems to quote is your first loss is your lease loss.

而且自 2019 年以來，該項應計項目一直低於標準。而且我相信，其中有幾個季度還特別值得一提。但我不記得它是什麼時候被特別提及的了。但你經常會聽到關於問題資產的諺語，以及每個人都會引用的一句老話：你的第一次損失就是租賃損失。

Well, a lot of times, maybe a majority of the times first loss is your lease loss. But as we looked at that asset, we said the sponsors not going to put new capital in this, but the sponsor remains engaged. We can work out an opportunity here where we don't have to put new money in it, but we can work with the sponsor and help them chart a path to a successful resolution of that.

很多時候，或許大多數情況下，第一次損失都是租賃損失。但當我們審視這項資產時，我們發現發起人不會再投入新的資金，但發起人仍然參與其中。我們可以想辦法解決這個問題，不必投入新的資金，而是與發起人合作，幫助他們制定成功解決方案的方案。

So instead of blowing that asset up in 2019 when it went on substandard and probably taking a 10 or 20 or loss on it, we work with the sponsor develop a plan to address that, and we've earned $43 million in interest and fees on that loan. And our total commitment today is $43 million, and our outstanding balance is about $34 million on that. So we've earned more in interest and fees than our outstanding balance on that loan.

因此，我們沒有在 2019 年該資產變成次級資產時將其銷毀，並可能因此遭受 10 或 20 億美元的損失，而是與發起人合作制定了一個計劃來解決這個問題，我們已經從這筆貸款中賺取了 4,300 萬美元的利息和費用。我們今天的總承諾金額為 4,300 萬美元，目前未償還餘額約為 3,400 萬美元。因此，我們獲得的利息和手續費比我們未償還的貸款餘額還要多。

And there's a very high probability that we get through that all the way to pay off with a successful resolution of that asset earning money all the way and never taking a loss on that. So you've got to be thoughtful and constructive in the way you approach these and understand what the assets are and understand how to maximize the value from them.

而且我們很有可能最終成功解決該資產問題，使其持續獲利，並且永遠不會遭受損失。所以，你必須以深思熟慮和建設性的方式來處理這些問題，了解資產是什麼，以及如何最大限度地發揮它們的價值。

Got you. Maybe just let me ask one follow-up and I'll hop off. Just in terms of the margin came in better than expected, I guess, in the quarter. Just wondering if you could give a little bit of thought about that given the rate cuts that have already occurred and just kind of how you see the margin in a relatively stable environment here. And then just on the buyback, any commentary from Tim on kind of the outlook of the buyback here prospectively.

抓到你了。或許就讓我問最後一個後續問題吧，問完就下線。就利潤率而言，本季比預期要好。鑑於目前已經實施的降息措施，以及在相對穩定的環境下您如何看待利潤空間，我想請您稍微思考一下這個問題。然後是關於股票回購，蒂姆對此次回購的前景有什麼評論嗎？

Tim, you want to take the buyback first and you're welcome to take the margin it to as well.

提姆，你想先回購，也可以把保證金加到回購金額。

Sure. Thanks, Brian. Yes. I mean our buyback, obviously, we started the new authorization July 1. And we said all along that we would be opportunistic in using that. And certainly, fourth-quarter, as we were trading that was just too good of a value to pass up. So we bought 2.25 million shares for an average price of $44.45. That's well below or a couple of dollars below our current tangible book value.

當然。謝謝你，布萊恩。是的。我的意思是，我們的回購計劃，很顯然，我們從7月1日開始實施新的授權。我們一直都說過，我們會抓住機會利用這一點。當然，到了第四季度，當我們進行交易時，那隻股票的價值實在太誘人了，不容錯過。因此，我們以平均每股 44.45 美元的價格購買了 225 萬股股票。這遠低於或比我們目前的有形帳面價值低幾美元。

So very accretive to not only EPS but certainly accretive to tangible book value as well. We still have just under $100 million left in that authorization, and we'll be opportunistic if the if we're trading in similar ranges, I think we'll be active, pretty active in this quarter and could use it all this quarter. It may -- it expires at the end of June. And so either if we're either this quarter or next, depending on how we're trading.

因此，這不僅對每股盈餘大有裨益，而且肯定也會增加有形帳面價值。我們還有不到 1 億美元的授權資金，如果股價在類似的區間波動，我們將抓住機會，我認為我們本季度會非常活躍，並且可能會在本季度全部用完。有可能——它六月底就到期了。所以，這取決於我們的交易情況，可能是本季度，也可能是下個季度。

So at the same time, you may have noticed, we increased our dividend for the, I believe its second quarter in a row and also had our capital ratios increase. I think, Brian, you pointed out in your note, our tangible common equity increased 35 basis points during the quarter, at the same time of buying back $100 million of common stock and our preferred income and dividend combined is roughly $55 million.

同時，您可能已經注意到，我們提高了股息，我相信這是連續第二個季度提高股息，而且我們的資本比率也有所提高。布萊恩，我認為，正如你在報告中指出的那樣，本季度我們的有形普通股權益增加了 35 個基點，同時我們回購了 1 億美元的普通股，而我們的優先股收入和股息合計約為 5500 萬美元。

So very pleased about being able to grow capital ratios, grow capital in dollars and still return a lot of capital to our shareholders during the quarter. On the margin, yes, you may remember, Brian, I mean our margin held up fairly well during the quarter. our rates on most of our ESG loans reset of the tenth of the month. So on December 10 is when the reset that did not reflect the full impact of the move in SOFR and there's still 8 or 9 basis points left that SOFR has moved down already from the tenth of December to January 10, when they reset again.

非常高興我們能夠在季度內提高資本比率、增加美元資本，並向股東返還大量資本。是的，布萊恩，你可能還記得，我的意思是，本季我們的利潤率保持得相當不錯。我們大部分ESG貸款的利率在每月10號重置。因此，12 月 10 日的重置並未反映出 SOFR 變動的全部影響，SOFR 從 12 月 10 日到 1 月 10 日再次重置時，仍有 8 或 9 個基點的降幅。

So we benefited from that during the quarter and Audi and the deposit team did a really good job on really managing our deposit costs. I think those came in very favorably as well. So we were pleased with how our margin performed during the quarter. We did mention a few things you may remember. In the first quarter, we have two fewer days. So that certainly is a headwind to net interest income for Q1.

因此，我們在本季度從中受益，奧迪和訂金團隊在控制訂金成本方面做得非常出色。我認為這些結果也相當不錯。因此，我們對本季的利潤率表現感到滿意。我們確實提到了一些你可能還記得的事情。第一季度，我們比平常少兩天。因此，這無疑對第一季的淨利息收入構成不利影響。

We gave you a range there of where we thought we would land for Q1 net interest income and we'll do our deposit team. We'll continue to work really hard on getting the best execution on our deposit costs as well. So I think we are really pleased with how our margin was for Q4, but we'll continue to work hard on managing that moving forward.

我們已經給出了我們認為第一季淨利息收入可能達到的範圍，我們的存款團隊也會做出相應的安排。我們將繼續努力，爭取在押金成本方面做到最優方案。所以我覺得我們對第四季的利潤率非常滿意，但我們將繼續努力，在未來更好地管理利潤率。

Janet Lee, TD Securities.

Janet Lee，TD證券。

Starting off with credit. So you've mentioned that your 2026 trends on credit would be similar to what you experienced in 2025, you probably have a better line of sight into your credit and the situation with sponsors. So are we expect -- just to level set, are we expecting a similar range of net charge-offs that you experienced in 2025 into 2026, so call it, 50 basis points?

從信用開始。所以你提到你 2026 年的信用趨勢將與 2025 年的情況類似，你可能對自己的信用狀況和與贊助商的關係有更清晰的了解。那麼，為了明確起見，我們是否預期 2026 年的淨沖銷額將與 2025 年的情況類似，比如說 50 個基點？

And if I were to extrapolate the NCO expectations for 2026 into what you would be willing to do on your provision and allowance for loan losses. It's been -- that's more than doubled over the past three years. So are we -- are you -- is a plan that you would draw down on your reserves in anticipation of any potential credit losses in 2026, given that you've built reserves for so long for a few years, or similar to what you did for full year 2025, you would be taking a similar amount of provision or whatever expected credit losses are for '26.

如果我將 NCO 對 2026 年的預期推斷到您願意在貸款損失準備金和撥備方面採取的措施，那會怎麼樣？過去三年裡，這個數字已經翻了一番還多。所以，我們——你們——是否計劃動用儲備金來應對 2026 年可能出現的任何潛在信貸損失？鑑於你們已經累積了多年的儲備金，或者類似於你們為 2025 年全年所做的那樣，你們將提取類似數額的準備金，或者任何預期的 2026 年信貸損失。

Great question. And Janet, I would start off by telling you we're going to do the right thing, whatever that is. And that will depend on where the global economy goes where the US economy goes where the quality metrics and risk ratings of our portfolio goes. So if we need to build a reserve further, which is probably not my base case.

問得好。珍妮特，我首先要告訴你的是，我們會做正確的事，無論那是什麼。而這將取決於全球經濟的走向、美國經濟的走向以及我們投資組合的品質指標和風險評級。所以如果我們需要進一步建立儲備，這可能不是我的基本期望。

But if we need to do that, we'll do that. We're going to do the right thing, whatever the economy and the models and the risk ratings tell us is the appropriate thing. We have been -- we talked about this at length in the management comments. We've prudently built the reserve so when we incurred the charge-offs that we incurred in the quarter just ended, a large part of that was already provided for us.

但如果我們需要這樣做，我們就會這樣做。我們將做正確的事，無論經濟狀況、模型和風險評級告訴我們什麼是正確的事。我們已經——我們在管理層評論中詳細討論過這個問題。我們已經謹慎地建立了儲備金，因此，當我們在剛結束的季度中發生沖銷時，其中很大一部分已經為我們做好了準備。

So we were able to absorb that and still run with all the models and put up all the reserves we needed to put up, and we carefully looked at that and roll all those numbers forward and really validated that our decisions in that regard were correct. So I would anticipate that if the economy plays out as we think it does and as the CRE cycle sort of winds down and early '27 as we think it will, that ACL percentage may continue to do what it did in the fourth-quarter, and that has come down modestly.

因此，我們能夠消化這些影響，並繼續執行所有模型，並建立我們所需的所有儲備金。我們仔細研究了這些數字，並將它們全部向前推算，真正驗證了我們在這方面的決策是正確的。因此，我預計，如果經濟按照我們認為的方式發展，並且商業房地產週期按照我們認為的方式逐漸結束，到 2027 年初，ACL 百分比可能會繼續像第四季度那樣發展，並且略有下降。

As we absorb losses that we've provided for the likelihood and potential of and we'll see where that goes based on where the economy goes and how the portfolio performs. But I think we were very prudent at the risk events build over time. And clearly, just the prolonged series of challenges that our CRE sponsors have faced going all the way back really to the COVID pandemic, but for our purposes today, mostly from the last 14 quarters when the Fed started raising rates.

我們將吸收已預留的、針對可能的情況和潛在損失，並根據經濟走向和投資組合表現來判斷最終結果。但我認為，我們對風險事件隨著時間推移而累積的情況處理得非常謹慎。顯然，我們的商業房地產贊助商面臨著一系列長期挑戰，這些挑戰可以追溯到新冠疫情時期，但就我們今天的目的而言，主要指的是聯準會開始升息的過去 14 個季度。

And sponsors were dealing with the after effects of COVID and inflation and work from home and all of that and then got into a higher rate scenario, it was a challenging time. As I said in the management comments, we think we are really in the late stages of working through that. And if that bears out then that reserve ACL percentage could continue to ease lower over the next year.

贊助商當時正在應對新冠疫情、通貨膨脹、居家辦公等諸多後續影響，然後又面臨更高的利率，那真是一段充滿挑戰的時期。正如我在管理層評論中所說，我們認為我們已經真正進入了解決這個問題的最後階段。如果情況屬實，那麼未來一年ACL儲備百分比可能會持續下降。

Got it. That's helpful color. And I know it's hard to exactly comment on this, but I'll still try. So when you say 2026 will be similar to 2025 working through some of the credits in the letters cycle of CRE. Is your expectation that you're going to see more of the migration into substandard nonaccrual from special mention and may be substandard accrual into the nonaccrual category within that classified and criticized assets that you have, which have been pretty stable overall over the past year?

知道了。這是個很有幫助的顏色。我知道很難對此做出準確的評論，但我還是會嘗試一下。所以，當你說 2026 年將與 2025 年類似，完成 CRE 字母週期中的一些學分。您是否預期會看到更多被特別關注的資產（包括部分被列為不良資產和部分被列為不良資產的資產）轉移到非應計類別，以及部分被列為不良資產的資產轉移到非應計類別？這些資產在過去一年中總體上相當穩定。

Or are you anticipating more of the new credits that are -- that could be migrating over to the classified and criticized category over time. Basically, do you have a line of sight into some of the potential credits that could be migrating into special mention or substandard overall? Or more of a potential credit migration within that classified category into nonaccrual based on what you're seeing now?

或者，您是否期待更多新的電影作品——隨著時間的推移，這些作品可能會被歸類為不入流或備受詬病的作品？基本上，您是否能夠預見一些可能被降級為特別提及或整體表現欠佳的影片？或者，根據您目前觀察到的情況，更有可能是該分類類別內的信貸向非應計信貸的轉移？

Well, a lot to unpack there. So let me start with this. The special mention category tends to be a fluid category. A lot of times, if we are having a very challenging extension modification negotiation with the customer, a loan may get into a special mention while we're involved in that negotiation because our challenges to the customer, maybe you got to put up X dollars and reserves.

嗯，這裡面有很多資訊需要分析。那麼，就讓我從這裡開始吧。特別提名獎的評選標準往往比較有彈性。很多時候，如果我們與客戶進行非常棘手的延期修改談判，貸款可能會在談判過程中被特別提及，因為我們對客戶提出的要求可能是，你必須拿出 X 美元和儲備金。

We want to pay down on this, you've got to make other enhancements and changes to protect our position, the customer may resist that because they've got other things they're dealing with, too. And those negotiations may become very challenging and intense. And usually, we get those resolved in a favorable manner.

我們希望降低成本，但為了保護我們的地位，你們必須做出其他改進和改變，客戶可能會抵制，因為他們還有其他事情要處理。這些談判可能會變得非常具有挑戰性和激烈。而且通常情況下，我們都能以有利的方式解決這些問題。

So a loan that is in the midst of intense negotiation and we're unsure how that's going to play out, may find itself in special mention. And then a lot of those get resolved, we get agonized pay down, we get reserves reposted. We earned an ISP on the extension. It's kind of put back into a very healthy state and it migrates back out into some level of pass rating.

因此，如果一筆貸款正處於激烈的談判階段，我們不確定談判結果會如何，那麼這筆貸款可能會被特別提及。然後很多問題都得到了解決，我們痛苦地償還了債務，儲備金也重新到位。我們透過擴充功能贏得了網路服務供應商 (ISP)。它基本上恢復到了一個非常健康的狀態，並且重新獲得了一定的及格分數。

Then you have loans that migrate in that you're not successful in negotiating that or maybe there was an issue with it that caused it to being special mention, and that doesn't work out well, that will migrate into substandard or substandard accrual, and we'll give you more disclosure on that. So the special mention is not just a stepping stone to substandard loans come in that and go back out the other way back into a past status as well. And that happens very frequently.

然後，有些貸款由於談判不成功或存在問題而被特別提及，導致貸款轉為次級貸款或次級應計貸款，這種情況最終會變得不好，我們會就此向您提供更多披露資訊。所以，特別提及不只是次級貸款的跳板，它還可以反過來讓貸款回到過去的狀態。這種情況經常發生。

So there's a fair amount of churn in the special mention category. I would repeat what we said in the management comments, we've had a handful of sponsors who have been unable or unwilling to continue to support their project over the last 14 quarters, particularly the last couple of years. We expect that our experience in 2026 is going to be similar to our experience in 2024 and 2025.

因此，特別提名類別的人員更迭相當頻繁。我想重申我們在管理層評論中所說的，在過去的 14 個季度裡，特別是最近幾年，有一些贊助商無法或不願意繼續支持他們的專案。我們預計 2026 年的情況將與 2024 年和 2025 年的情況類似。

So sort of giving you a couple of years to look at as a comparison for our expectations for 2026. So I think we very likely we'll have a handful of additional sponsors who give up on projects we're have an ACL built for that expectation. And it's a case-by-case basis. And in dealing with sponsors, you're not just dealing with the sponsor, but you're also dealing with the sponsors, capital partners in a lot of these cases.

所以，我們給你們幾年時間作為參考，以便與我們對 2026 年的預期進行比較。所以我認為我們很可能還會有一些額外的贊助商放棄項目，我們已經為此建立了一個ACL（澳洲競爭與市場委員會）。具體情況具體分析。在與贊助商打交道時，你不僅在與贊助商打交道，而且在許多情況下，你還要與贊助商、資本合作夥伴打交道。

So there are multiple variables at play, and we're really good at working through those. We have a great team that works through these negotiations and arrangements. I feel very good about that. But I think we've given you as good guidance as we can give you at this point in time.

所以這裡有很多變數在起作用，而我們非常擅長解決這些問題。我們擁有一支優秀的團隊，負責處理這些談判和安排。我對此感到非常滿意。但我認為，在目前這個階段，我們已經盡力為你提供最好的指導了。

Jordan Ghent, Stephens.

喬丹·根特，史蒂芬斯。

I just had a question on kind of the capital -- it looks like you guys have $350 million in sub debt that moves from fixed to floating this coming October. I think you guys have previously said you could redeem a whole par beginning in October. That's still the case. And then with that, how does that affect your buyback up until that point?

我有個關於資本方面的問題——你們似乎有 3.5 億美元的次級債務，將於今年 10 月從固定利率轉為浮動利率。我想你們之前說過，從十月開始就可以兌換一整個積分。情況依然如此。那麼，這會對你之前的回購計畫產生什麼影響呢？

Jordan, you're right. We do have sub debt that goes from fixed to floating October 1. We've not made any decision regarding what we'll do on that right now. I think we'll make that decision as soon as we need to, but too early to comment on that. Our buybacks, we have a lot of capital in you saw our CET1 ratio increase and our earnings.

喬丹，你說得對。我們確實有一些次級債務將於10月1日由固定利率轉為浮動利率。我們目前還沒有就此事做出任何決定。我認為我們會在需要的時候盡快做出決定，但現在評論這個問題還為時過早。我們的股票回購，我們擁有大量資本，你們也看到了我們的CET1比率上升和收益成長。

We haven't talked about earnings a lot on this call, but we earn a lot of money earned almost $700 million, almost a record again this year, almost equal to what we earned, which was a record last year. That earnings power does allow us to have a lot of capital that we can use opportunistically in some years -- we're going to have a lot of a strong amount of growth. Some years, we're going to have mid-single digits.

我們在這次電話會議上沒有過多談論收益，但我們賺了很多錢，今年賺了近 7 億美元，幾乎再次創下紀錄，幾乎與我們去年創紀錄的收益持平。這種獲利能力確實讓我們擁有大量資本，我們可以在某些年份抓住機會加以利用——我們將迎來強勁的成長。有些年份，降水量會降到個位數。

And so when we have mid-single digits and we have levels of earnings that we're expecting in the coming years. We're going to increase our capital levels, and we'll look for opportunities to deploy that and just like we did in the last quarter. So too early to comment on sub debt. We've had sub debt outstanding really since for the last years. So some level of Tier 2 capital is a part of our capital structure.

因此，當我們實現個位數中段的成長，並且對未來幾年的獲利水準有所預期時，情況就是如此。我們將增加資本水平，並尋找機會部署這些資金，就像我們在上個季度所做的那樣。現在評論次級債務還為時過早。過去幾年，我們一直都有未償還的子債務。因此，一定比例的二級資本是我們資本結構的一部分。

And that's over the long term, I would expect us to have a decent amount of Tier 2 capital. And so that's really kind of our long-term strategy there.

從長遠來看，我預計我們將擁有相當數量的二級資本。所以，這其實就是我們在那裡的長期戰略。

Got it. And then maybe just one more. Last quarter, you guys guided for loan balances to move lower in the pending quarter in '25. We didn't see this in major comments. Could you provide any commentary on what's going to happen maybe in the near term or kind of the trends you're seeing?

知道了。然後，也許就再來一個。上個季度，你們預測 2025 年即將到來的季度貸款餘額將會下降。我們在主要評論中沒有看到這一點。您能否就近期可能發生的事情或您觀察到的趨勢發表一些評論？

Tim, you want to take that or I'll be happy to.

提姆，你想拿還是我來拿都行。

Sure. Yes, we gave you loan guidance for the year. In Q1, I think we're expecting to be positive and not have a quarter like Q4, obviously, the payoff velocity sometimes moves around a little bit on us. And so -- but I think our growth will be -- will come mid- to late year Q1, I think, is still a positive quarter of growth but you could have a payoff or two that comes in or pushes out that can move that around a little bit.

當然。是的，我們為您提供了年度貸款指導。我認為我們預期第一季會是正成長，不會像第四季那麼糟糕，當然，回報速度有時會有些波動。所以——但我認為我們的成長將會——將在今年中後期到來。第一季度，我認為仍然是一個正成長的季度，但可能會有一兩個因素的出現或推遲，稍微改變這個趨勢。

But I think we'll have growth that comes in throughout the year, but probably second-quarter, third-quarter, fourth-quarter will be stronger than first-quarter.

但我認為全年都會有成長，但第二季、第三季和第四季可能會比第一季更強勁。

Yes, I would agree with that. Our mid-single-digit loan growth guidance that we've given for the year is probably going to be loaded into the -- more in the final three-quarters than the first-quarter of the year. We've got -- we had a lot of payoffs that we are expecting in Q1.

是的，我同意。我們先前給出的年度貸款成長預期為個位數中段，而這一預期很可能更多地體現在最後三個季度，而不是第一季。我們有很多預期收益將在第一季到達。

Perfect.

完美的。

Catherine Mealor, KBW.

Catherine Mealor，KBW。

One follow-up on the credit conversation. As we look at the special mention category and then George, you talked about how this is a fluid category where loans come in and out, but it was interesting to see that a number of those loans that are in special mention were highlighted on the appraisal chart. Bigger 29, and it feels like a couple of them have pre LTVs that are nearing 100.

關於信用問題的後續討論。當我們查看特別提及類別時，喬治，你談到這是一個不斷變化的類別，貸款會不斷增減，但有趣的是，許多被列入特別提及的貸款在評估圖表中被突出顯示。更大的 29，感覺其中幾輛的 LTV 已經接近 100 了。

And so just curious if you could provide any commentary on some of those larger office special mission loans and are any -- are there maturates coming up near term? Or are there things that we should be aware of in the next couple of quarters that could perhaps drive some of those to move into substandard?

所以，我很好奇您是否可以對一些較大的辦公室特殊任務貸款提供一些評論，以及是否有任何貸款即將到期？或者，在接下來的幾個季度裡，我們是否應該注意一些可能導致其中一些企業淪為不合格企業的因素？

Well, in respect for our sponsors, we really try to not talk about loans that we don't need to talk about in special mention loans fall in that category. So I don't know that we have a lot to really add on that, Catherine. And there's a balancing act between being totally transparent and providing for an accurate disclosure and to our investors and then going beyond that and providing disclosure, we don't need to provide this challenging detrimental to our sponsors.

出於對贊助商的尊重，我們盡量避免談論那些我們不需要談論的貸款，特別提及的貸款就屬於這一類。所以我覺得我們在這方面也沒什麼好補充的了，凱瑟琳。在完全透明、向投資者提供準確披露資訊和超越這一目標提供披露資訊之間，存在著一種平衡。我們不需要提供這種具有挑戰性的訊息，以免對我們的發起人造成不利影響。

So I don't have a lot of comment on that. Those loans are -- we feel like are appropriately risk rated special mention. That risk rating is reflective of the appraised values on them. And we've talked a lot about how fluid in and out our special mention is. So if those loans merit at a substandard rating, we would have them substandard rated if they merit a substandard rating in the future, we'll write them there at the appropriate time, and we think special mention is correct.

所以我對此沒什麼好說的。我們認為這些貸款的風險評級是適當的，值得特別關注。此風險評級反映了它們的評估價值。我們已經多次討論過，我們的特別提名資格是如何靈活變化的。因此，如果這些貸款符合次級評級，我們將把它們評為次級；如果它們將來符合次級評級，我們將在適當的時候將它們列入評級名單，我們認為特別提及是正確的。

We gave you those notations there because we didn't want to invade the impression that gosh, we had loans that were higher loan-to-value loans that we had gotten an appraisal that said the loan to value on a lot higher than where it previously was and we weren't taking that into account in the risk ratings on them. So I think we're doing the appropriate and proper thing, prudent thing on those loans.

我們之所以在那裡添加這些註釋，是因為我們不想給人留下這樣的印象：哎呀，我們有一些貸款價值比更高的貸款，我們得到的評估報告顯示，這些貸款的價值比以前高得多，但我們在對這些貸款進行風險評級時並沒有考慮到這一點。所以我認為，我們對這些貸款的處理方式是恰當、妥當、謹慎的。

Got it. No, that's clear. I appreciate that. And then maybe another question, it might be the same answer, but I'll try it. But any update on the larger life science line out in San Diego, the Rad property? Just any leasing update or anything that you can bend a few quarters in just had an update on that. Just curious if there's anything you can provide on that larger credit.

知道了。不，這很清楚。我很感激。然後可能還會有一個問題，答案可能一樣，但我會試試看。但是，位於聖地牙哥的Rad地產公司旗下的大型生命科學計畫有什麼最新進展嗎？只是關於租賃方面的更新，或者任何可以稍微調整一下的事情，我剛剛收到了這方面的更新。我只是好奇您是否能提供關於那筆較大額貸款的任何資訊。

Yes. I'll let Brannon comment on that. But you -- when I mentioned meeting with the management team on our largest loan in Dallas that was that loan. So Brannon, you I know you don't want to get into too many details, but you might sort of give you a flavor and take on that.

是的。這個問題就讓布蘭農來評論吧。但是你——當我提到要和管理團隊會面討論我們在達拉斯最大的一筆貸款時，那就是那筆貸款。所以布蘭農，我知道你不想透露太多細節，但你或許可以簡單談談你的看法。

Sure, Catherine. Thanks for the question. And yes, I would just reiterate what George said around sponsorship and management. They have pulled in some new leadership that is extremely experienced in the segment and you may recall that over the last couple of years, the sponsor has injected a significant amount of capital in that project specifically, but the company and its capital partners, I think they had -- I want to say it was a $900 million capital raise.

當然可以，凱瑟琳。謝謝你的提問。是的，我只想重申喬治關於贊助和管理方面所說的內容。他們引入了一些在該領域經驗豐富的新領導層，你可能還記得，在過去的幾年裡，贊助商已經向該項目投入了大量資金，但該公司及其資本合作夥伴，我想他們籌集了——我想說的是9億美元的資金。

So with respect to the wherewithal, the sort of can do. They've got it with respect to capital, and they've got it with respect to expertise. We did have a great meeting. There's not been a lot of executed leasing activities. There are a number proposals out, predominantly on the office side. That's probably all the detail I'll get into there as it relates to the leasing part of it. But this new management team is very impressive.

所以就資源而言，這種人能做到。他們在資金方面擁有優勢，在專業技術方面也擁有優勢。我們開會開得很順利。租賃活動不多。目前已經提出了一些方案，主要集中在辦公大樓方面。關於租賃部分，我大概就說這麼多細節了。但是這個新的管理團隊非常出色。

The plan that they've laid out is -- starts the ground level. They are very much at the ground level and on a daily basis. And the exciting thing now is activation. Tenants with their leasing improvements or tenant improvements wrapping up and starting to open here in the near term. So you'll start to get some good activation and so we feel very good about where they are in their commitment to the project, obviously, an outstanding asset, and we think these guys are going to have success in putting tenants in that asset.

他們所製定的計劃是從基礎做起。他們非常注重基層工作，並且每天都在進行相關工作。現在最令人興奮的是激活環節。租戶的租賃裝修或租戶裝修工程即將完工，並將於近期開始在此開幕。所以，你會開始看到一些不錯的激活效果，因此我們對他們投入這個項目的決心感到非常滿意，顯然，這是一個傑出的資產，我們認為這些人會成功地為該資產找到租戶。

Timur Braziler, Wells Fargo.

蒂穆爾·布拉齊勒，富國銀行。

My first question is on the Boston property. It looks like in the third-quarter, the reappraisal was done on a stabilized basis and implied a level that was much higher in 4Q, where it looks the appraisal was done now on an as-is basis. Can we just maybe talk through kind of what transpired between 3Q and 4Q that drove the more punitive appraisal?

我的第一個問題是關於波士頓的房產。看起來第三季的重新評估是在穩定的基礎上進行的，暗示的水平要高得多，而第四季度的評估似乎是在現狀基礎上進行的。我們能否討論一下第三季到第四季之間究竟發生了什麼，導致了更嚴厲的績效評估？

Well, it was the same appraisal and it was used as a value. And our approach on this is we use as stabilized value when the sponsor is engaged in the project, supporting the project and the expectation is that the project is going to achieve stability. If the sponsor is in this case, then indicates that they're not going to continue to support the project and contribute capital and keep it current, keep it performing.

嗯，評估結果是一樣的，並被用作估值依據。我們的做法是，當贊助商參與專案、支援項目，並且期望專案能夠實現穩定時，我們將使用穩定值。如果贊助商屬於這種情況，則表示他們不會繼續支持該項目，不會繼續投入資金，也不會繼續維持專案的正常運作和績效。

Then, as I said earlier, you pay you stay, you don't pay you go. And we're going to take property, then we ship to liquidation value or an as-is value of the property. So we detail that in the footnote on the auto of figure 26, all of those substandard assets because sponsor support seems unlikely or is clearly not going to happen all those substandard nonaccrual assets are reflected is values.

正如我之前所說，你付錢就留下，不付錢就走。我們將接收房產，然後按清算價值或房產現狀價值出售。因此，我們在圖 26 的腳註中詳細說明了所有這些次級資產，因為發起人的支持似乎不太可能或顯然不會發生，所有這些次級非應計資產都反映在了價值中。

The assets that continue to have sponsor support are reflected as stabilized value. Typically nailed down the point you asked what was the change. The change was we expected the sponsor at -- when we were talking in October, would continue to support the project to some degree, and they seem to be close to a resolution and a favorable resolution on the pending lease project.

那些持續獲得贊助商支持的資產，其價值將被視為穩定價值。通常都能準確地指出你問的「變化是什麼」。變化在於，我們原本預期贊助商——我們在十月份洽談時——會繼續在一定程度上支持該項目，而現在看來，他們似乎已經接近就待決的租賃項目達成有利的解決方案。

Because the prospective tenant extended their time line to make a decision on their lease by six-months plus or minus. The sponsor indicated they were not going to continue to support the project without a lease or the capital partners. The sponsor was still willing to support, but not the two capital partners. And that lack of support and the elongated timeline on the lease decision led to the change in our appraisal selection for that asset.

因為準租戶將決定租賃事宜的時間延長了大約六個月。發起人表示，如果沒有租賃協議或資本合作夥伴，他們將不再支持該計畫。贊助商仍然願意提供支持，但兩位投資合夥人卻不願意了。由於缺乏支援以及租賃決定時間過長，導致我們改變了對該資產的評估選擇。

Okay. Got it. And then maybe just one more on the allowance. George, you had made the comment in one of the earlier questions on kind of working through the environment. I'm just wondering in terms of allowance and the ability to maybe drive that lower, is that just working through the existing known problems?

好的。知道了。然後或許就再用零用錢買一件吧。喬治，你在之前的某個問題中曾經提到過如何適應環境。我只是想知道，就補貼額度以及是否有可能降低補貼額度而言，這是否只是在解決目前已知的問題？

And I'm just wondering to the extent that we do get additional risk migration into categories beyond special mention, is that going to warrant additional allowance actions? Or do you feel like the existing reserve that's in place today is going to be sufficient to work through whatever issues might surface over the course of the next 12- to 18- months.

我想知道，如果出現更多風險轉移到特別提及以外的類別，這是否需要採取額外的準備金措施？或者您認為目前現有的儲備足以應對未來 12 至 18 個月內可能出現的任何問題？

The ACL reflects our expectations for all of the current portfolio for the life of those loans. That's what is all about you calculate your expected loss for the life of those loans. So we have an expected level of migration that is embedded within that even before early in the interest rate raising cycle, we were building the ACL because of expectations.

ACL 反映了我們對所有現有貸款組合在其存續期內的預期。這就是你需要計算的，也就是計算這些貸款期限內的預期損失。因此，我們預期會出現一定程度的遷移，甚至在升息週期早期，我們就因為預期而製定了ACL。

If this trend continues and goes on long enough, there will be some losses that will result in obviously, the longer the cycle went on and the higher interest rates win and then all of the other various macroeconomic challenges and uncertainties and impacts that occurred that resulted in that full ACL build to a $680 million level where it stood at September 30.

如果這種趨勢持續下去，而且持續時間足夠長，就會造成一些損失，顯然，週期持續的時間越長，利率越高，再加上所有其他各種宏觀經濟挑戰、不確定性和影響，最終導致 ACL 全面增長到 9 月 30 日的 6.8 億美元水平。

The environment is getting slightly more constructive, and we're resolving some of those specific losses by taking charge-offs on and resolving them in the last quarter. So that's why the came down. So based on our current expectation, there will be some migration in the portfolio. We don't know what specific loans are going to migrate, but we've got probability analysis basically on every loan, a probability of file the loss given default, some that we have lost reserves far will never become an issue which will free up those reserves.

環境正在逐漸好轉，我們正在透過核銷和在最後一個季度解決一些具體的損失來解決這些問題。所以這就是它倒塌的原因。因此，根據我們目前的預期，投資組合中將會出現一些遷移。我們不知道具體哪些貸款會遷移，但我們基本上對每筆貸款都進行了機率分析，計算了違約損失的機率，其中一些我們已經損失了儲備金的貸款永遠不會成為問題，這將釋放這些儲備金。

Some that we have a loss reserve on will possibly migrate adversely and we'll need more reserve. But on average, I think we're in a really good position. And that's what your ACL does. It reflects your expectations for the whole portfolio and you do it on a loan level basis and sum all that up, but some of the vast majority of those reserves are not going to be needed for the specific loans they're on, but other things will get migrated to a more adverse status and you'll need some of that reserve that's freed up from others to meet that. So it's an average process.

有些我們已經提列了損失準備金的資產可能會出現不利變動，屆時我們需要更多準備金。但總的來說，我認為我們處境非常好。這就是你的前十字韌帶的作用。它反映了你對整個投資組合的預期，你是按貸款級別進行計算並匯總的，但其中絕大多數儲備金並不需要用於它們所對應的特定貸款，而是會轉移到更不利的狀態，你需要從其他方面釋放出一些儲備金來應對這種情況。所以這是一個普通的過程。

Thank you. I would now like to turn the call back over to George Gleason for closing remarks.

謝謝。現在我謹將電話交還給喬治‧格里森，請他作總結發言。

All right, guys. Thank you so much. We appreciate all your time today, your interest in OZK. We look forward to talking with you in about 90-days. Have a great rest of the day. Thank you.

好了，各位。太感謝了。我們非常感謝您今天抽出時間，也感謝您對 OZK 的關注。我們期待在90天左右與您洽談。祝您今天餘下的時間過得愉快。謝謝。

This concludes today's conference. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線了。