Old Second Bancorp Inc (OSBC) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today for Old Second Bancorp, Inc.'s fourth quarter 2025 earnings call.

各位早安，感謝各位今天參加 Old Second Bancorp, Inc. 2025 年第四季財報電話會議。

On the call today are Jim Eccher, the company's Chairman, President and CEO; Brad Adams, the company's COO and CFO, Darin Campbell, the company's Head of National Specialty Lending; and Gary Collins, the Vice Chairman of our Board.

今天參加電話會議的有：公司董事長、總裁兼執行長吉姆·埃克爾；公司首席營運官兼首席財務官布拉德·亞當斯；公司全國專業貸款主管達林·坎貝爾；以及公司董事會副主席加里·柯林斯。

I will start with a reminder that Old Second's comments today will contain forward-looking statements about the company's business, strategies and prospects, which are based on management's existing expectations in the current economic environment. These statements are not a guarantee of future performance and results may differ materially from those projected. Management would ask you to refer to the company's SEC filings for a full discussion of the company's risk factors. The company does not undertake any duty to update such forward-looking statements.

首先我要提醒大家，Old Second今天發表的評論將包含有關公司業務、策略和前景的前瞻性陳述，這些陳述是基於管理層對當前經濟環境的現有預期。這些聲明並不保證未來的業績，實際結果可能與預期有重大差異。管理階層請您參考公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，以全面了解公司的風險因素。本公司不承擔更新此類前瞻性聲明的任何義務。

On today's call, we will also be discussing certain non-GAAP financial measures. These non-GAAP measures are described and reconciled to their GAAP counterparts in our earnings release, which is available on our website at oldsecond.com on the home page under the Investor Relations tab.

在今天的電話會議上，我們還將討論一些非GAAP財務指標。這些非GAAP指標已在我們的獲利報告中進行了描述，並與相應的GAAP指標進行了核對。此獲利報告可在我們的網站oldsecond.com的首頁「投資者關係」標籤下找到。

Now I will turn it over to Jim Eccher.

現在我將把麥克風交給吉姆·艾克爾。

Good morning, and thank you for joining us, and thanks for your patience as we worked through some technical difficulties there. I have several prepared opening remarks. Give you my overview of the quarter and then turn it over to Brad for additional details. We will then conclude with summary comments and thoughts about the future before we open it up to Q&A.

早安，感謝各位的參與，也感謝各位在我們解決一些技術難題時的耐心等待。我準備了幾份開場白。我先給你概述一下本季的情況，然後把細節交給布拉德來補充。最後，我們將對未來進行總結評論和思考，之後將進入問答環節。

From a GAAP perspective, net income was $28.8 million or $0.54 per diluted share in the fourth quarter, and ROA was 1.64%. Fourth quarter 2025 return on average tangible common equity was 16.15% and the tax equivalent efficiency ratio was 53.98%. Fourth quarter earnings were impacted by a couple of material adjusting items, the first being a $428,000 pretax loss on mortgage servicing rights and a $2.5 million in pretax acquisition-related expenses driven by $1.5 million of computer and data processing related to the core systems conversion, as well as systems related to acquired operations.

從 GAAP 的角度來看，第四季淨收入為 2,880 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.54 美元，資產回報率為 1.64%。2025 年第四季平均有形普通股報酬率為 16.15%，稅收等效效率比為 53.98%。第四季收益受到幾個重大調整項目的影響，第一個是抵押貸款服務權稅前虧損 428,000 美元，第二個是與收購相關的稅前支出 250 萬美元，其中包括與核心系統轉換相關的計算機和數據處理費用 150 萬美元，以及與收購業務相關的系統費用。

Excluding those two items, net income for the fourth quarter was $30.8 million or $0.58 per diluted share. Tangible book value per share increased 61 basis points to $14.12. The tangible equity ratio increased 61 basis points from last quarter from 10.41% to 11.02% and is 98 basis points higher than the like period 1 year ago. Common equity Tier 1 was 12.99% in the fourth quarter, increasing from 12.44% last quarter and increasing 17 basis points from 1 year ago.

剔除這兩項因素後，第四季淨收入為 3,080 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.58 美元。每股有形帳面價值成長 61 個基點至 14.12 美元。有形權益比率較上季成長 61 個基點，從 10.41% 增至 11.02%，比去年同期成長 98 個基點。第四季普通股一級資本適足率為 12.99%，高於上一季的 12.44%，比一年前成長了 17 個基點。

Our financials continue to reflect an exceptionally strong net interest margin at 5.09% for the fourth quarter, which is a 4 basis point improvement from last quarter and 41 basis point increase over the prior year like quarter on a tax-equivalent basis. Pre-provision net revenues decreased from both interest-earning deposits and securities, balance declines, coupled with a decline in rates. The total cost of deposits was 115 basis points for the fourth quarter compared to 133 basis points for the prior linked quarter and 89 basis points from the fourth quarter of 2024.

我們的財務數據繼續反映出第四季度淨利差非常強勁，達到 5.09%，比上一季度提高了 4 個基點，比上年同期（按稅收等效計算）提高了 41 個基點。提列撥備前的淨收入因計息存款和證券的減少而下降，餘額減少，同時利率也下降。第四季存款總成本為 115 個基點，而上一季為 133 個基點，2024 年第四季為 89 個基點。

For the fourth quarter 2025 compared to last quarter, tax equivalent income on average earning assets decreased $1.8 million, while interest expense on average interest-bearing liabilities decreased $2 million. Loan-to-deposit ratio now sits at 93.9% as of year-end compared to 91.4% last quarter and 83.5% as of 12/31, 2024. The fourth quarter 2025 experienced a slight increase in total loans -- excuse me, a slight decrease in total loans of $12.4 million from last quarter.

2025年第四季與上一季相比，平均生息資產的稅收等值收入減少了180萬美元，而平均計息負債的利息支出減少了200萬美元。貸款存款比率截至年底，該比例為 93.9%，而上一季為 91.4%，截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日為 83.5%。2025 年第四季貸款總額略有增加——抱歉，是貸款總額比上一季略有減少 1,240 萬美元。

Tax equivalent loan yields declined 11 basis points during the fourth quarter of 2025 compared to the linked quarter, but reflected a 48 basis point increase for the quarter year-over-year. The decrease in yield comparison to the prior quarter is primarily a function of Fed rate cuts working through the portfolio. Asset quality trends were relatively unchanged. Nonperforming loans increased $4.8 million and classified assets increased by $10 million.

2025 年第四季度，稅收等效貸款收益率較上一季下降 11 個基點，但較上年同期增加 48 個基點。與上一季相比收益率下降，主要是聯準會降息政策對投資組合產生影響的結果。資產品質趨勢基本上維持不變。不良貸款增加 480 萬美元，分類資產增加 1,000 萬美元。

In general, our collateral position is very good on Q4 downgrade credits. We recorded a $6 million of net loan charge-offs in the fourth quarter of 2025 with the majority, where 75% of those stemming from the Powersport portfolio and commercial real estate owner occupied. With regards to Powersports, I would say that losses given default are running a bit higher than we expected. However, yields in that portfolio are much higher than expected, and the contribution margin is both above expectations and improving.

總體而言，我們針對第四季度評級下調的信貸資產的抵押品狀況非常好。我們在 2025 年第四季記錄了 600 萬美元的淨貸款核銷，其中大部分（75%）來自 Powersport 投資組合和商業房地產所有者。就動力運動產業而言，我認為違約損失率比我們預期的要高一些。然而，該投資組合的收益率遠高於預期，貢獻利潤率也高於預期並不斷提高。

Due to the nature of Powersport business, gross charge-offs are anticipated to run at a higher rate than Old Second has historically experienced, especially in a higher interest rate environment. This is the nature of what is a very good business. Investors should know that the contribution margin is now at a multiyear high in this business, and we're very bullish on our 2026 performance.

由於動力運動業務的特殊性，預計總沖銷率將高於 Old Second 銀行以往的水平，尤其是在利率較高的環境下。這就是優秀企業的本質。投資人應該知道，該業務的貢獻毛利率目前處於多年來的最高水平，我們對 2026 年的表現非常樂觀。

The allowance for credit losses on loans was $72.3 million, as of December 31, 2025, or 1.38% of total loans from $75 million at September 30, 2025, which was 1.43% of total loans. Unemployment and GDP forecasts used in future loss rate assumptions remained fairly static from last quarter with no material changes in the unemployment assumptions on the upper end of the range based on recent Fed projections. The impact of the global tariff volatility continues to be considered within our modeling.

截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日，貸款信用損失準備金為 7,230 萬美元，佔貸款總額的 1.38%，而截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日，該準備金為 7,500 萬美元，佔貸款總額的 1.43%。用於未來損失率假設的失業率和 GDP 預測與上季相比基本保持不變，根據聯準會最近的預測，失業率假設在範圍上限方面沒有實質變化。全球關稅波動的影響仍在我們的模型中被考慮。

Provision levels quarter-over-linked quarter, exclusive of day two purchase accounting impacts decreased $3 million and were largely driven by the Powersport portfolio, net charge-off levels with other losses associated with the previously allocated provisions. Noninterest income reflected a slight decrease in the fourth quarter compared to the prior quarter, but continue to perform well compared to the prior year like quarter.

不包括第二天購買會計影響，季度環比撥備水準減少了 300 萬美元，主要原因是動力運動產品組合的淨沖銷水準以及與先前分配的撥備相關的其他損失。與上一季相比，第四季非利息收入略有下降，但與去年同期相比仍表現良好。

Noninterest income in the third quarter of 2025 reflected a $430 death benefits on a fwhich was not experienced in the fourth quarter of 2025. Mortgage banking income was flat compared to the linked quarter and declined $668,000 compared to the like prior year period, primarily due to the volatility of mortgage servicing rights mark-to-market valuations. Excluding the impact of mortgage servicing right mark-to-market adjustments, mortgage banking income increased nominally quarter over linked quarter and from the prior year like period.

2025 年第三季的非利息收入反映了 430 美元的死亡賠償金，而 2025 年第四季並未發生該筆死亡賠償金。抵押貸款銀行業務收入與上一季持平，與去年同期相比下降了 66.8 萬美元，主要原因是抵押貸款服務權按市值計價的波動。剔除抵押貸款服務權按市值調整的影響，抵押貸款銀行業務收入環比名義增長，較上年同期增長。

Other income decreased nominally in the fourth quarter of 2025 compared to the prior linked quarter, but increased $550,000 compared to the prior year like quarter driven largely by Powersports service fees. Noninterest income increased $544,000 compared to the prior year like quarter as wealth management fees increased $238,000 or 7.2% and service charges on deposits increased $198,000 or 7.5%. Total noninterest expenses for the fourth quarter of 2025 declined $10.2 million from the prior linked quarter. Fourth quarter experienced a decrease of $9.3 million in acquisition-related costs.

2025 年第四季其他收入與上一季相比名義上有所下降，但與上年同期相比增加了 55 萬美元，這主要得益於動力運動服務費的增長。與去年同期相比，非利息收入增加了 544,000 美元，其中財富管理費增加了 238,000 美元，增幅為 7.2%；存款服務費增加了 198,000 美元，增幅為 7.5%。2025 年第四季非利息支出總額較上一季減少 1,020 萬美元。第四季收購相關成本減少了930萬美元。

Our efficiency ratio continues to be excellent and the tax equivalent efficiency ratio adjusted to exclude core deposit intangibles, amortization, OREO costs and the adjustments to net income, as noted earlier, was 51.28% for the fourth quarter compared to 52.1% for the third quarter 2025.

我們的效率比率仍然非常出色，經調整後（不包括核心存款無形資產、攤銷、OREO成本和淨收入調整，如前所述），第四季度的稅收等效效率比率為51.28%，而2025年第三季為52.1%。

So our focus continues to be on the optimization of the balance sheet to perform and withstand the variability of the current and future interest rates. We continue to reduce reliance on wholesale funding as we allow the legacy Evergreen Bank broker CDs to run off and reprice higher cost deposits in the falling interest rate environment.

因此，我們的重點仍然是優化資產負債表，以應對當前和未來利率的波動。隨著利率下降，我們允許原有的 Evergreen Bank 經紀商 CD 到期，並對成本較高的存款進行重新定價，我們將繼續減少對批發融資的依賴。

With that, I'll turn it over to Brad for additional color.

接下來，我將把這個主題交給布萊德，讓他補充一些色彩。

Thanks, Jim. I don't have a ton to talk about today. I would say that we're pretty darn excited to close the year like this. Running at a north of a 5% margin and ROA handsomely above 1.5% and ROTCE above 17.5% on an operating basis is pretty exceptional performance that we're proud of. EPS, some 30% over last year. Integration fully done. Integration at the end of last year as well. That's a lot of work. And to close the year like that, this is especially gratifying.

謝謝你，吉姆。我今天沒什麼太多要說的。我想說，我們非常興奮能以這樣的方式結束這一年。營運利潤率超過 5%，資產報酬率遠高於 1.5%，有償權益報酬率超過 17.5%，這樣的績效非常出色，我們為此感到自豪。每股收益比去年增長約 30%。集成工作已全部完成。去年年底也進行了整合。那工作量可不小。以這樣的方式結束這一年，尤其令人欣慰。

This quarter is not a lot of complexity to it. Most of the stuff that we talked about last quarter is still true. So I'll be relatively brief. Net interest income increased nominally this quarter relative to last quarter both around the $83 million level.

本季的情況並不複雜。上個季度我們討論的大部分內容仍然適用。那我就長話短說吧。本季淨利息收入較上季略有成長，約 8,300 萬美元。

Loan yields decreased about 11 basis points and securities yields decreased a bit more at 14 basis points. Total yield on interest-earning assets decreased 8 basis points over the linked quarter. Cost of interest-bearing deposits decreased more at 24 basis points, and total interest-bearing liabilities decreased 15 basis points. The end result was a 4 basis point improvement in the tax equivalent NIM, which is obviously pretty awesome.

貸款收益率下降約 11 個基點，證券收益率下降幅度更大，達 14 個基點。生息資產總收益率較上季下降 8 個基點。計息存款成本下降了 24 個基點，計息負債總額下降了 15 個基點。最終結果是稅收等效淨利差提高了 4 個基點，這顯然非常棒。

Tax equivalent NIM for the fourth quarter of 2025 increased 41 basis points from 4.68% for the period last year. Average loans increased $60 million or $1.2 million over linked quarter with average deposits declining $200 million, a level we expected. Deposit runoff is largely concentrated in high beta effectively wholesale deposit captions as planned.

2025 年第四季的稅收等效淨利差較上年同期的 4.68% 增加了 41 個基點。平均貸款額較上一季增加 6,000 萬美元，即 120 萬美元，而平均存款額下降 2 億美元，符合我們的預期。存款流失主要集中在高β值區域，有效地按照計畫完成了批發存款業務。

Loan origination activity in the fourth quarter, you may not know, was actually very good and activity remains robust. Certainly, the market environment, marginal spreads is far more favorable than it was in the first half of the year and certainly at this time last year.

您可能不知道，第四季的貸款發放活動實際上非常好，而且活動仍然強勁。當然，目前的市場環境和邊際價差遠比今年上半年以及去年同期要有利得多。

Payoffs, especially in the participation book have resulted in relatively flat balance sheet growth in the fourth quarter. This is interesting. Balances in the CRE loan participations acquired with West Suburban declined by $53 million in the fourth quarter of this year, the largest one quarter runoff that we have seen to date in that portfolio. This was a significant headwind to growing the balance sheet this quarter. Organic activity remains exceptionally strong.

收益，尤其是參與式收益，使得第四季資產負債表的成長相對穩定。這很有意思。今年第四季度，透過 West Suburban 收購的商業房地產貸款參與餘額減少了 5,300 萬美元，這是我們迄今為止在該投資組合中看到的最大單季減少。這給本季資產負債表的成長帶來了重大阻力。有機活動依然異常強勁。

Other than that, everything I said last quarter remains true to the best of my knowledge. Balance sheet is exceptionally well positioned and margin trends feel stable. We may tick down modestly in the first quarter, but I expect to still be above 5%. Loan growth being targeted in the mid-single-digit level for next year. Expense growth will be modest. Pre-inflationary trends in employee benefits and salaries are going to be moderated by the realization of the cost saves associated with Evergreen.

除此之外，據我所知，我上個季度所說的一切仍然有效。資產負債表狀況極佳，利潤率趨勢穩定。第一季可能會略有下降，但我預計仍將高於 5%。明年貸款成長目標為中等個位數水準。支出成長將較為溫和。員工福利和薪資的通膨前趨勢將因 Evergreen 專案帶來的成本節約而得到緩和。

Buyback is on the table that we haven't done anything this quarter. It's becoming inevitable. I don't have anything to add about the tax rate other than it was really high this quarter. Please don't ask me about that. There isn't a lot of complicated stuff to go over beyond that.

回購計劃一直在考慮之中，但我們本季還沒有採取任何行動。這正變得越來越不可避免。關於稅率，我沒什麼要補充的，只是這季的稅率確實很高。請不要問我這個問題。除此之外，沒有什麼更複雜的事情需要詳細講解了。

So I'll turn the call back over to Jim.

那我把電話轉回給吉姆。

Okay. Thanks, Brad. In closing, we're very proud of the year we just concluded, and we believe the level of performance is reflective of the strength of the bank we are building. We're optimistic about next year or this year and all the opportunities that are in front of Old Second.

好的。謝謝你，布拉德。最後，我們對剛剛過去的一年感到非常自豪，我們相信這一業績水準反映了我們正在打造的銀行的實力。我們對明年或今年以及老二號球場面臨的所有機會充滿信心。

I would like to thank our team for their hard work and execution in 2025, including integrations and systems conversions and upgrades that have made us a much better Old Second. I could not be more excited about the things we can accomplish next year. That concludes our prepared comments this morning.

我要感謝我們的團隊在 2025 年的辛勤工作和執行，包括整合、系統轉換和升級，這些都使我們成為了更好的 Old Second 公司。我對我們明年能夠取得的成就感到無比興奮。今天早上我們準備的發言就到此結束了。

So I'll turn it over to the moderator, and we can open it up to questions.

那我就把發言權交給主持人，我們可以開放提問環節。

(Operator Instructions) Jeff Rulis, D.A. Davidson.

（操作員說明）Jeff Rulis，D.A.戴維森。

On the expense side, I just wanted to see if those cost savings, Brad, I couldn't tell if -- are those fully captured, or was that -- is there a tailwind to '26 that leads to that muted expense growth from your perspective?

在支出方面，布拉德，我只是想看看這些成本節約是否——我無法判斷這些節約是否完全實現了，或者——從你的角度來看，2026 年是否存在某種利好因素導致支出增長放緩？

There's a tailwind to '26. Employee benefits are up -- are expected to be up solidly in the double digits next year just with inflationary trends that we're seeing in health insurance. We've done a lot of things to restructure to keep those costs contained. But we've got a couple of branch closings that are scheduled and some other expense initiatives.

2026年形勢一片大好。員工福利正在上漲——預計明年將以兩位數的幅度穩步上漲，這主要得益於我們目前在醫療保險領域看到的通膨趨勢。我們採取了許多重組措施來控制這些成本。但我們有一些計劃中的分行關閉項目和其他一些支出計劃。

All in all, it's going to look like we're just kind of doing a good job, not as good as flat, but not as bad as it would be just on a pure apples-to-apples basis. So it kind of feels like a 3% type level as we get those final cost saves run through.

總而言之，看起來我們做得還不錯，雖然不如完全平坦，但也沒有完全按照同等條件比較來算那麼糟糕。所以感覺就像是最終成本節省達到 3% 的水平一樣。

Got you. And then on the credit front, Jim, I guess the charge-off from the Powersports, and you really outlined that clearly very profitable on the margin front. Just wanted to see on the net charge-off pace. I think we talked about kind of 30 basis point level, a little higher. Is anything that front-end loaded, or could we expect kind of 30-40 going forward?

抓到你了。吉姆，關於信貸方面，我想應該是動力運動業務的壞賬，你確實清楚地指出了這一點，這在利潤率方面非常有利可圖。只是想看看淨沖銷速度。我想我們討論的是30個基點左右的水平，稍微高一點。前期投入會比較多，還是說未來一段時間內投入會達到 30-40 美元左右？

And then secondly, on the credit side, is that 30- to 89-day bucket, a little bit of an increase? Anything to note on that balance?

其次，在信貸方面，30 至 89 天期限的貸款額度是否會略為增加？關於這份餘額有什麼需要注意的嗎？

Yes, good question. I think we need to be accustomed to a little bit higher net charge-off rate due to Powersports. That's just the nature of that business. I think if you look at the $6 million in charge-offs, $4.5 million was Powersport related, so only $1.5 million in the legacy book, which is more in line with our historical trends.

是的，問得好。我認為我們需要習慣因動力運動產業而導致的稍高的淨沖銷率。這就是這個行業的本質。我認為，如果你看一下 600 萬美元的沖銷款項，其中 450 萬美元與動力運動相關，因此只有 150 萬美元是歷史遺留問題，這更符合我們的歷史趨勢。

But given that, we're in a higher interest rate environment. We expect Powersports to have maybe elevated charge-offs in the next couple of quarters. And I think we have to look at that hand-in-hand with the contribution margin, which I mentioned was at a multiyear high.

但有鑑於此，我們目前處於較高的利率環境。我們預計未來幾季動力運動產業的壞帳損失可能會增加。我認為我們必須將這一點與貢獻毛利率結合起來考慮，我之前提到過，貢獻毛利率達到了多年來最高的水平。

So obviously, that's flowing through the margin and profitability. As it relates to 3089, we had a couple of larger loans that were just past maturity. We had a couple of loans that obviously migrated into nonaccrual that we're working through. One has a very low loan to value. The other is a mixed-use property in Chicago that has been very slow to lease up and it's going to take another couple of quarters to work through that one.

很顯然，這會直接影響利潤率和獲利能力。至於 3089，我們有幾筆數額較大的貸款剛剛到期。我們有幾筆貸款顯然已經轉為非應計利息，我們正在處理這些問題。其中一輛車的貸款價值比非常低。另一處是芝加哥的混合用途物業，租賃進展非常緩慢，還需要幾季才能完成租賃。

Nathan Race, Piper Sandler.

內森·雷斯，派珀·桑德勒。

This is Adam Kroll on for Nathan Race. So maybe just a question for Brad on the margin. I was curious if you could kind of frame out expectations for the first quarter with the full quarter impact of the December rate cut and just your overall positioning if we were to get another cut or two in the middle part of the year and just where you think the NIM can settle out over the longer term?

這裡是亞當·克羅爾，替內森·雷斯為您報道。所以，或許可以問布拉德一個無關緊要的問題。我想請您談談對第一季的預期，包括12月份降息對第一季度的全面影響，以及如果年中再降息一兩次，您的整體策略是什麼，還有您認為淨息差在長期內會穩定在什麼水平？

I'd be very surprised if we're not around the 5% level for the full year 2027. I was going on my time machine there. 2027, I have no comment on at this point.

如果到 2027 年全年成長率達不到 5% 左右，我會非常驚訝。我當時正要坐時光機去那裡。2027年，目前我無可奉告。

And I was just curious if you have the purchase accounting accretion number for the quarter?

我只是想問一下，您有本季的採購會計增值數據嗎？

It's a few hundred thousand. I've talked about that before. It's down substantially from last quarter. The thing that I would really like people to focus on is that the amount of purchase accounting that we have in our numbers this year in aggregate is less than the amount of purchase accounting that we're getting off the solar loan book.

有幾十萬。我之前也談過這個問題。與上一季相比大幅下降。我希望大家關注的是，我們今年整體的採購會計金額少於我們從太陽能貸款帳簿中獲得的購買會計金額。

It's nothing. I think there was $150,000. It's not something that I really think is material to anyone's understanding of Old Second at this point. It was down substantially linked quarter.

沒什麼。我想應該是15萬美元。我認為就目前而言，這對任何人理解舊第二規則來說都不是實質的內容。較上季大幅下降。

But the thing to keep in mind here is that the purchase accounting impact on the Powersports portfolio is negative for the next 2 years. So the go-forward business is better than what you're trying to isolate as the unrepeatable portion in the current periods. It's actually a tailwind going forward relative to a headwind.

但要注意的是，此次收購對動力運動產品組合的會計處理影響在未來兩年內為負面。因此，未來的業務發展狀況比你試圖在當前時期中分離出的不可重複部分要好。實際上，相對於逆風而言，這是順風。

Got it. No, that's super helpful. And then maybe just moving to deposits. You've called out letting exception price deposits run off from the acquisition. So I guess I'm curious how much is remaining of those deposits and if you're seeing opportunities to reduce deposit costs on your legacy nonmaturity deposits?

知道了。不，這太有幫助了。然後或許就轉向存款業務了。你指出了讓收購中的特殊價格保證金白白流失的問題。所以我想知道這些存款還剩下多少，以及您是否看到了降低現有非到期存款成本的機會？

We talked about this last quarter. The thing to remember is that fixing and returning to an old second like funding profile is a multistage process. Some of it we did prior to bringing on the Evergreen balance sheet and some of it we'll do after. We probably need to replace $300 million to $400 million in deposits with our type of funding in order to complete the process.

我們上個季度討論過這個問題。需要記住的是，修復和恢復到以前的第二輪融資模式是一個多階段的過程。有些工作我們在將 Evergreen 納入資產負債表之前就完成了，有些工作我們將在之後完成。為了完成這個過程，我們可能需要用我們這種類型的資金來取代 3 億至 4 億美元的存款。

In terms of the amount of wholesale funding, effective wholesale funding that's on the balance sheet right now, that's part of the reason why the margin is so darn resilient at this point because we do have substantially more funding that benefits from falling rates than we typically otherwise would have.

就目前資產負債表上的批發融資額而言，有效的批發融資額是目前利潤率如此堅挺的部分原因，因為我們確實擁有比通常情況下更多的、受益於利率下降的融資。

So it's not necessarily a bad thing to focus on, at least at this stage. It's not what I want over the long term. But right now, it's actually a benefit. I would say just the number to keep in mind is that I would like to look $300 million to $400 million different on the liability side.

所以，至少在現階段，注意這一點未必是件壞事。從長遠來看，這不是我想要的。但就目前而言，這實際上是一種優勢。我想說的是，要記住的數字是，我希望負債方面能有 3 億到 4 億美元的差異。

Got it. And then maybe just last one for me. Digging into the mid-single-digit loan growth. I was curious what your expectations are for growth in the Powersports vertical specifically?

知道了。也許這是我的最後一個了。深入探討個位數中段貸款成長的原因。我想請教一下，您對動力運動領域的成長有何預期？

Slightly less than, that would be my expectation.

我的預期是略低於這個數。

(Operator Instructions) Terry McEvoy, Stephens.

（操作說明）特里·麥克沃伊，史蒂芬斯。

Maybe could you just remind us of the profile of a typical Powersport borrower? And I ask, I'm just curious, where do they line up in this K-shaped economy? And is there typically -- has there typically been some seasonality in terms of the charge-offs within that portfolio?

能否簡單介紹一下典型的動力運動器材借用者的特徵？我只是好奇，它們在這種 K 型經濟中處於什麼位置？該投資組合中的壞帳核銷通常是否有季節性？

Sure, Terry. Darin, if you're there and on, do you want to take that one?

當然可以，特里。達林，如果你在場並且狀態良好，你想接下這個任務嗎？

Yes, I can do that. Yes, Terry, the average FICO score for our portfolio in the Powersports in the 730 with the biggest percentage of that in your Tier 1 bucket, which has an average FICO score of 776.

是的，我可以做到。是的，Terry，我們Powersports投資組合的平均FICO分數為730，其中最大比例屬於您的Tier 1類別，該類別的平均FICO分數為776。

But from a seasonality perspective, Terry, our busy season starts March 1 through -- it's really the second and the third quarter from an origination perspective where you have most of your business. And your -- from a risk perspective from either delinquency and losses, you have more of that in the other two quarters, especially at year-end, like I say, when we compete with Santa Claus at year-end, the numbers elevate a little bit and then stabilize out again as you get into the second quarter.

但從季節性角度來看，特里，我們的旺季從 3 月 1 日開始，一直持續到——從業務拓展的角度來看，實際上是第二季度和第三季度，那時你們的大部分業務都在進行。從違約和損失的風險角度來看，其他兩個季度的情況更為嚴重，尤其是在年底，就像我說的，年底我們和聖誕老人競爭時，這些數字會略微上升，然後在進入第二季度時再次趨於穩定。

But it's been -- I've been -- Terry, I've been doing it for 30 years, and it's been pretty consistent trends for 30 straight years in this portfolio.

但是——我一直——特里，我已經做了 30 年了，而且這 30 年來，這個投資組合的趨勢一直相當穩定。

Great. And then as a follow-up, Brad, just capital management. I think you said share repurchase inevitable. I look back, the stock is up 20% from 3 months ago. So the stock is higher. Is that just a comment on where your capital levels are, or should I read into maybe the M&A market and what you see happening in '26?

偉大的。然後，布拉德，接下來就是資本管理了。我想你說過股票回購是不可避免的。回顧過去，該股票比三個月前上漲了 20%。所以股價上漲了。這是在評論你們的資本水準嗎？還是應該讓我聯想到併購市場以及你們對 2026 年的展望？

No. M&A market feels good. There's no shortage of discussions happening. The question is what's the right deal for Old Second at the right time and how much capital do we need to do that.

不。併購市場行情良好。各種討論層出不窮。問題是，在合適的時機，對 Old Second 來說，什麼是合適的交易，以及我們需要多少資金才能做到這一點。

Clearly, I got it wrong in that we were basically running a big fat Christmas plus savings account in order to acquire the capital for an acquisition, and we needed a fraction of what we had saved up. So it's just a function of what we need versus what we have. Obviously, we generated a ton of capital. And I'm not uncomfortable where we are. I just don't really see a need to grow it much from here is the thing.

顯然，我錯了，我們當時實際上是在利用聖誕節的積蓄來籌集收購所需的資金，而我們實際需要的只是我們積蓄的一小部分。所以這只是我們需要什麼和我們擁有什麼之間的關係。顯然，我們累積了大量資金。我對現狀並不感到不自在。我覺得沒必要再繼續擴大規模了。

Brian Martin, Janney.

布萊恩馬丁，詹尼。

Can you talk a little bit, Brad, about -- or Jim, you talked about the production being exceptional this quarter versus kind of the payoffs and then the piece from the West Suburban that was running off. Just maybe how much ran off in that West Suburban and then how much is left there that may be a headwind going forward. But then just trying to get your take on this kind of mid-single-digit loan growth, but kind of the production being better kind of it's been in a long time.

布拉德，你能稍微談談嗎？或者吉姆，你剛才提到本季的產量非常出色，但收益卻不盡如人意，還有西郊那部分銷售下滑的問題。或許，西郊地區究竟有多少水流走了，又有多少水還留在那裡，這可能會成為未來發展的阻礙。但我想聽聽您對這種個位數中段貸款成長，以及生產狀況比過去很長一段時間以來都要好的看法。

Yes, Brian. The fourth quarter actually, surprisingly, was our best production quarter of the year. And normally, that's a softer quarter along with the first quarter, but it was exceptionally strong along multiple verticals.

是的，布萊恩。出乎意料的是，第四季實際上是我們全年產量最高的季度。通常來說，第二季和第一季一樣，業績會比較疲軟，但本季在多個垂直領域都表現得異常強勁。

The challenge, as Brad pointed out, we had some pretty big paydowns. Some of it was welcomed in the syndication portfolio, but we also had early payoffs in multifamily and commercial real estate, a lot of it is stemming from property sales. What I think we get encouraged is the pipeline today or as of the end of the year is the highest it's been in probably 6 to 7 quarters. So that gives us a lot of optimism that we're going to have a pretty good first half of the year in '26. And I think mid-single-digit growth is certainly achievable this year.

正如布拉德所指出的那樣，我們面臨的挑戰是，我們有一些相當大的損失。其中一些收益被納入了聯合投資組合，但我們在多戶住宅和商業房地產方面也獲得了早期回報，其中許多收益都來自房產銷售。我認為令人鼓舞的是，目前（截至年底）的管道建設量可能達到了近 6 到 7 個季度以來的最高水準。因此，這讓我們對2026年上半年的前景充滿樂觀。我認為今年實現個位數中段的成長是完全可以實現的。

Got you. And how big is that -- where is that the syndication book today? How far is that down? And maybe how much more to go there? Is that a headwind going forward?

抓到你了。那規模有多大？如今的發行合約規模有多大？那到底有多低？或許我們還能走多遠？這是前進道路上的逆風嗎？

It's -- well, when we -- at the start of -- at the end of 2021, which is when we closed on West Suburban. We had about $772 million in commitments. We've had that as of the end of 2025. From a balance perspective, we got about $285 million left. I would anticipate 1/3 of that will continue to run off, and we'll probably keep the remainder.

那是——嗯，就是在 2021 年初——年底，我們完成了對西郊的收購。我們當時已獲得約7.72億美元的承諾捐款。截至 2025 年底，我們已經實現了這一點。從資產負債表來看，我們還剩下約 2.85 億美元。我預計其中三分之一會繼續流失，剩下的部分我們可能會保留下來。

I would tell you that those numbers that Jim is referencing are inclusive of some additions related to Evergreen. So what you're really talking about over a 5-year period is almost an 80% reduction in that loan book.

我想告訴你，吉姆提到的那些數字包含了與 Evergreen 相關的一些新增內容。所以，你真正指的是五年內貸款總額減少近 80%。

Got you. Okay. And Brad, I think you mentioned the stability in the margin, just maybe being down potentially a bit in 1Q. I guess is that -- I guess what's the -- I guess, the modest headwind here in 1Q?

抓到你了。好的。布拉德，我想你提到了利潤率的穩定性，只是第一季可能略有下降。我猜是——我猜是什麼——我猜，第一季這裡存在的輕微逆風？

And just in terms of that -- the balance sheet, the runoff that you expect, it sounds like there's still a couple of hundred million of exception-based brokered CDs that, like you said, is benefiting now, but that's going to continue to run off. That's what's left to go in terms of what --

就資產負債表而言——你預期的資產縮水，聽起來還有幾億份基於例外情況的經紀CD，正如你所說，現在正在受益，但這部分資產將繼續縮水。這就是剩下的部分了。--

I'm just being really pessimistic, man, because the reality is that the biggest headwind to the margin is probably going to be deciding to buy treasuries, especially if people keep making noise about invading countries that are largely ICE. So the more we see moves like that, I would be comfortable adding assets that largely don't offer, obviously, a 5% spread.

我只是有點悲觀而已，夥計，因為現實情況是，邊際收益最大的阻力可能在於決定購買國債，尤其是在人們繼續大肆宣揚入侵那些主要由ICE控制的國家的情況下。因此，如果我們看到更多類似的走勢，我會放心地增加那些顯然不會提供 5% 價差的資產。

So it's just a function of that. I also just don't want to go on here and say that, hey, the margin is going to go up from 5.09. I'm not going to say that. So I'm the biggest headwind, Brian, me personally.

所以這只是一個函數。我也不想在這裡說，嘿，利潤率會從 5.09 上升。我不會這麼說。所以，布萊恩，就我個人而言，我才是最大的阻力。

Got you. Okay. And Jim, just going to the criticized or classified for a minute. I guess classifieds are up a little bit. I guess the -- how do you see those trends going forward?

抓到你了。好的。吉姆，我們先來談談那些受到批評或被歸類的話題。我猜分類廣告的數量稍微增加了一些。我想問的是──您如何看待這些趨勢未來的發展？

And then do you have -- how are the special mention trends? I don't know that you mentioned that, but -- or if you quantify those, were those up or down in the quarter?

那麼，您認為特別提及的趨勢如何？我不知道你是否提到過這一點，但是——或者如果你要量化這些指標，它們在本季度是上升了還是下降了？

Yes. We classified, certainly, we had a lot of migration in and migration out. I think where we're seeing a little bit of degradation of that portfolio is in the C&I book and companies just showing weaker performance. By and large, collateral positions are pretty good. We're not seeing a whole lot of loss given default at this point.

是的。我們進行了分類，當然，我們有很多人口遷入和遷出。我認為我們看到該投資組合出現一些下滑的地方在於工商業領域，以及一些公司業績表現較弱。整體而言，抵押品狀況相當不錯。目前來看，違約造成的損失並不大。

But it's going to take some time to work through this. I think the positive news from our perspective is the net change in special mention or watch loans was down materially. We had, I think, only a couple of loans migrate in, and we had over $15 million in reduction in that bucket. So those are early-stage indicators for us. So that should help us moving forward.

但解決這個問題需要一些時間。我認為從我們的角度來看，積極的消息是特別提及或手錶借貸的淨變化大幅下降。我認為，只有幾筆貸款轉入，而我們在這個類別中減少了超過 1500 萬美元。所以這些對我們來說就是早期指標。這應該有助於我們向前邁進。

So the special mention were down on a linked quarter basis? Or did I hear that wrong?

所以，特別提及的數量比上一季下降？還是我聽錯了？

Yes, down $15 million in the quarter.

是的，本季虧損1500萬美元。

Down $15 million. Okay. Perfect. And the last one or two for me, and I'll jump off was the -- Brad, you mentioned on the expenses, just to clarify that, your comment, the 3% -- you were talking about 3% growth year-over-year in expenses. So 25% expenses to 263 -- or were you talking about something else there in terms of your comments?

虧損1500萬美元。好的。完美的。最後還有一兩個問題，我先插一句——布拉德，你提到了費用，為了澄清一下，你的評論，3%——你指的是費用同比增長3%。所以，263 的支出佔 25%——還是你在評論中指的是其他方面？

No, that's what I'm talking about.

不，我說的就是這個。

Yes. Okay. And then just on the buyback, your general comments are we expected -- can you give any sense on how you're thinking about the buyback, Brad? Or is it just you expect to begin that this quarter and based on pricing, that will be opportunistic?

是的。好的。那麼，關於股票回購，我們期待您發表一些評論—布拉德，您能否談談您對股票回購的看法？或者，您只是預計本季開始，並且根據定價來看，這將是一個機會主義的舉措？

I expect it will begin in relatively short order, yes. I'm not price sensitive at this point.

是的，我預計它很快就會開始。目前我對價格並不敏感。

Got you. Okay. And the M&A environment, you said it's good with lots of discussions. What is kind of the optimal target today look like for Old Second if you are looking at M&A? I mean the last one was obviously asset driven

抓到你了。好的。至於併購環境，您說目前很好，有很多討論。如果考慮併購，Old Second 目前的最佳目標是什麼？我的意思是，最後一個顯然是資產驅動型的。

I'm not sure how much that I can be helpful on an answer there because I can tell you that I wouldn't have described Evergreen, if you'd asked me that 18 months ago. So I think the only thing that investors can be certain of is that, we're not going to do anything unless it makes us a better bank, and that's what we're focused on.

我不確定我能提供多少幫助，因為我可以告訴你，如果你在 18 個月前問我這個問題，我不會這樣描述 Evergreen。所以我認為投資人唯一可以確定的是，除非能讓我們成為更好的銀行，否則我們不會做任何事情，而這正是我們所關注的。

Yes. Brian, I would say our priority this year is really fully integrating Evergreen, which we're about there, but really focusing on organically growing the balance sheet and optimizing it. That would be priority one.

是的。布萊恩，我認為我們今年的首要任務是真正全面整合 Evergreen，我們已經基本完成了這項工作，但真正關注的是資產負債表的有機成長和優化。那將是首要任務。

Yes. That's what I was getting at. I felt like it was more if there was M&A, it was likely more on the deposit side rather than the --

是的。我就是這個意思。我覺得如果真的有併購，那更有可能是存款方面的交易，而不是其他方面的交易。--

We'll be opportunistic, but it's certainly not in the near term for us.

我們會抓住機會，但這肯定不是我們近期會採取的行動。

We have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. And I will now turn the call over to Jim Eccher for closing remarks.

問答環節到此結束。現在我將把電話交給吉姆·埃克爾，請他作總結發言。

Okay. Thanks, everyone, for joining us this morning. Again, I apologize for the technical difficulties. We look forward to speaking with you again next quarter. Goodbye.

好的。謝謝大家今天早上收看我們的節目。再次為技術故障致歉。我們期待下個季度再次與您交流。再見。

This concludes today's conference, and you may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的會議到此結束，您可以斷開線路了。感謝您的參與。