Old Second Bancorp Inc (OSBC) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today for Old Second Bancorp, Incorporated's second-quarter 2025 earnings call. On the call today are Jim Eccher, the company's Chairman, President and CEO; Brad Adams, the company's COO and CFO; and Gary Collins, the Vice Chairman of our Board.

大家早安，感謝您今天參加 Old Second Bancorp, Incorporated 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。參加今天電話會議的有公司董事長、總裁兼執行長 Jim Eccher、公司營運長兼財務長 Brad Adams 以及董事會副主席 Gary Collins。

I will start with a reminder that Old Second's comments today will contain forward-looking statements about the company's business, strategies and prospects, which are based on management's existing expectations in the current economic environment. These statements are not a guarantee of future performance and results may differ materially from those projected. Management would ask you refer to the company's SEC filings for a full discussion of the company's risk factors. The company does not undertake any duty to update such forward-looking statements.

首先我要提醒大家，老二今天的評論將包含關於公司業務、策略和前景的前瞻性陳述，這些陳述是基於管理階層在當前經濟環境下的現有預期。這些聲明並不能保證未來的表現，結果可能與預測有重大差異。管理階層會要求您參考公司的 SEC 文件，以全面討論公司的風險因素。本公司不承擔更新此類前瞻性陳述的任何義務。

On today's call, we will also be discussing certain non-GAAP financial measures. These non-GAAP measures are described and reconciled to their GAAP counterparts in our earnings release, which is available on our website at oldsecond.com on the homepage and under the Investor Relations tab.

在今天的電話會議上，我們還將討論某些非公認會計準則財務指標。這些非 GAAP 指標在我們的收益報告中進行了描述並與其 GAAP 對應指標進行了協調，您可以在我們的網站 oldsecond.com 的主頁和「投資者關係」標籤下找到該收益報告。

So I will now turn it over to Jim Eccher. Over to you.

現在我將把發言權交給 Jim Eccher。交給你了。

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. I have several prepared opening remarks. We'll give you my overview of the quarter and then turn it over to Brad for additional details. I will then conclude with certain summary comments and thoughts about the future before we open it up to Q&A.

大家早安，感謝大家的收看。我準備了幾篇開場白。我們將向您提供本季度的概述，然後將其交給布拉德以獲取更多詳細資訊。在我們開始問答環節之前，我將對未來做出一些總結性的評論和想法。

Net income was $21.8 million or $0.48 per diluted share in the second quarter. Return on assets was 1.53%. Second quarter 2025 return on average tangible common equity was up 15.29% and the tax equivalent efficiency ratio was 54.54%. Second-quarter earnings were significantly impacted by a couple of items, the first being a $531,000 MSR mark-to-market losses or a penny per share. And an $810,000 charge in merger-related expenses or $0.01 per diluted share primarily related to the Bancorp Financial merger, which closed on July 1.

第二季淨收入為 2,180 萬美元，即每股收益 0.48 美元。資產報酬率為1.53%。2025 年第二季平均有形普通股權益報酬率上漲 15.29%，稅收等價效率比率為 54.54%。第二季的收益受到幾項因素的顯著影響，首先是 MSR 按市價計價的損失為 531,000 美元，即每股一分。合併相關費用為 810,000 美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.01 美元，主要與 7 月 1 日完成的 Bancorp Financial 合併有關。

Despite these items, profitability of Old Second remains exceptionally strong and book value continued to compound heading into the July 1 close of the Evergreen Bank acquisition. The tangible equity ratio increased by 49 basis points from last quarter from 10.34% to 10.83% and has increased by 144 basis points over the like period one year ago. Common equity Tier 1 was 13.77% in the second quarter, increasing from 13.47% last quarter.

儘管有這些因素，Old Second 的獲利能力依然非常強勁，且帳面價值在 7 月 1 日 Evergreen Bank 收購結束前持續成長。有形權益比率較上一季的 10.34% 上升至 10.83%，上升了 49 個基點，較去年同期上升了 144 個基點。第二季普通股一級資本適足率為 13.77%，高於上一季的 13.47%。

We feel really good both about profitability and our balance sheet positioning at this point. Brad will provide additional color on our capital positioning in his comments.

目前，我們對獲利能力和資產負債表定位都非常滿意。布拉德將在他的評論中對我們的資本定位提供更多說明。

Our financials continue to reflect a very strong net interest margin with pre-provision net revenues increasing from exceptionally strong levels. For the second quarter of 2025 compared to last quarter, tax equivalent income on average earning assets increased $1.7 million, while interest expense on average interest-bearing liabilities increased $343,000.

我們的財務狀況持續反映出非常強勁的淨利差，撥備前淨收入從異常強勁的水平增長。2025 年第二季與上一季相比，平均生息資產的稅收等值收入增加了 170 萬美元，而平均計息負債的利息支出增加了 343,000 美元。

Net interest margin improved 22 basis points year over year on a tax equivalent basis and decreased 3 basis points compared to last quarter. Total cost of deposits was 84 basis points for the second quarter compared to 82 basis points for both the prior linked quarter and for the second quarter of last year. The loan-to-deposit ratio is 83.3% as of June 30 compared to 81.2% last quarter and 87.9% as of June 30 last year. I'll let Brad talk about that more in a moment.

以稅收等值計算，淨利差較去年增加 22 個基點，較上季下降 3 個基點。第二季存款總成本為 84 個基點，而上一季和去年第二季均為 82 個基點。截至 6 月 30 日，貸存比率為 83.3%，上一季為 81.2%，截至去年 6 月 30 日為 87.9%。稍後我會讓布拉德詳細談論這一點。

Second quarter 2025 reflected an increase in total loans of $58.4 million from last quarter, driven by growth in construction and lease portfolios during the quarter. Tax equivalent loan yields reflected a 3 basis points decrease during the second quarter of 2025 compared to the linked quarter and a 4 basis points decline for the quarter year over year.

2025 年第二季度，貸款總額較上一季增加 5,840 萬美元，這得益於本季建築和租賃組合的成長。2025 年第二季度，稅收等價貸款收益率與上一季相比下降了 3 個基點，與去年同期相比下降了 4 個基點。

Asset quality was largely stable this quarter with nonperforming assets essentially flat and only a modest increase in classified assets as well. We recorded a $1.2 million gross charge-offs in the second quarter of 2025, of which the majority was associated with a single C&I credit, which is fully reserved for. One property was moved to OREO during the quarter with a favorable outlook regarding its disposition this year.

本季資產品質基本穩定，不良資產基本持平，分類資產僅略有增加。我們在 2025 年第二季記錄了 120 萬美元的總沖銷額，其中大部分與單筆 C&I 信貸有關，並已全額預留。本季有一處房產被轉移至奧利奧，今年的處置前景看好。

The allowance for credit losses on loans increased to [$43 million] as of June 30 or 1.08% of total loans from $41.6 million at March 31, which was 1.05% of total loans. Unemployment and GDP forecast used in future loss rate assumptions remained fairly static from last quarter, with no material changes in the unemployment assumptions on the upper end of the range based on recent set projections.

截至 6 月 30 日，貸款信用損失準備金從 3 月 31 日的 4,160 萬美元（佔貸款總額的 1.05%）增至 [4,300 萬美元，佔貸款總額的 1.08%。未來損失率假設中使用的失業率和 GDP 預測與上一季相比保持相當穩定，根據最近設定的預測，失業率假設在範圍上限沒有發生重大變化。

The impact of the global tariff volatility was considered within our modeling. Provision levels quarter-over-linked quarter reflect no material change as our projections continue to be aligned with the prior quarter's assumptions for allowance allocations.

我們的模型考慮了全球關稅波動的影響。由於我們的預測繼續與上一季的撥備分配假設保持一致，因此撥備水準與上一季相比沒有重大變化。

Noninterest income continued to perform very well in the second quarter compared to prior year like quarter after excluding $893,000 in debt benefits in BOLI realized in 2024 as wealth management fees increased $324,000 or 11.7% and service charges on deposits increased $280,000 or 11.2%.

在扣除 2024 年實現的 BOLI 債務收益 893,000 美元後，第二季度非利息收入與去年同期相比繼續表現良好，因為財富管理費增加了 324,000 美元或 11.7%，存款服務費增加了 280,000 美元或 11.2%。

Mortgage banking income reflected a slight increase in the second quarter of 2025 compared to the prior linked quarter, and a decrease in the prior year like quarter primarily due to volatility of mortgage servicing rights, mark-to-market valuations. Excluding the impact of mortgage servicing rights, mark-to-market adjustments, mortgage banking income increased nominally quarter over linked quarter and from the prior year linked period.

2025 年第二季度，抵押貸款銀行業務收入與上一季相比略有增加，與去年同期相比有所下降，主要是由於抵押貸款服務權的波動、按市價計價的估值。排除抵押貸款服務權和按市價調整的影響，抵押貸款銀行收入與上一季和去年同期相比均名義上有所增長。

Other income was flat in the second quarter compared to the prior linked quarter and higher compared to the prior year linked quarter. Expense discipline continues to be strong with total noninterest expense for the second quarter of 2025 at $1.1 million less than the prior linked quarter.

第二季其他收入與上一季持平，但與去年同期相比有所上升。支出紀律持續嚴格，2025 年第二季的非利息總支出比上一季減少了 110 萬美元。

Our efficiency ratio continues to be excellent as the tax equivalent efficiency ratio adjusted to exclude core deposit intangibles, amortization, acquisition costs and OREO costs was 54.54% compared to 55.48% for the first quarter of 2025. Our focus now is on the effective integration of Evergreen Bank and optimizing the balance sheet for its impacts.

我們的效率比率持續保持優異，因為調整後的稅收等價效率比率（不包括核心存款無形資產、攤銷、收購成本和奧利奧成本）為 54.54%，而 2025 年第一季為 55.48%。我們現在的重點是有效整合長榮銀行並優化其資產負債表。

We have sold the bulk of the acquired securities portfolio from Evergreen and reduced reliance on wholesale funding within the legacy Evergreen Bank as it was merged in Old Second. Nothing really has changed relative to our expectations in terms of financial performance and targets associated with the transaction. Cost saves estimates are on target and earnings expectation are maybe biased to slightly higher.

我們已出售了從 Evergreen 收購的大部分證券組合，並減少了對原 Evergreen 銀行批發融資的依賴，因為 Evergreen 銀行已併入 Old Second。就交易相關的財務表現和目標而言，與我們的預期相比，一切都沒有改變。成本節省估計符合目標，獲利預期可能略高。

Next quarter will, of course, be slightly messy and feature the bulk of acquisition-related expenses. With that, I'll turn it over to Brad for additional color.

當然，下個季度將會稍微混亂，而且大部分都是與收購相關的費用。有了這些，我將把它交給布拉德來補充顏色。

Thank you, Jim. Net interest income increased by $1.3 million or 2.1% to $64 million for the quarter ended June 30 relative to the prior quarter of $62.9 million, also increased $4.5 million or almost 8% from the year ago linked quarter. Tax equivalent yields increased 16 basis points and loan yields were 3 basis points lower than the second quarter of 2025 compared to the first quarter. Total yield on interest earning assets decreased 2 basis points over the linked quarter to $568. Interest-bearing deposits and total interest-bearing liability costs experienced a 2 basis points increase.

謝謝你，吉姆。截至 6 月 30 日的季度，淨利息收入較上一季的 6,290 萬美元增加了 130 萬美元（增幅 2.1%），達到 6,400 萬美元，較去年同期增加了 450 萬美元（增幅近 8%）。2025年第二季度，稅收等價收益率較第一季增加16個基點，貸款收益率較第一季下降3個基點。生息資產總收益率較上一季下降 2 個基點至 568 美元。計息存款和計息負債總成本上升了2個基點。

The end result was a 3 basis points decrease in the tax equivalent NIM to 4.85% for the quarter ended from 4.88% last quarter. We believe this continues to be exceptional margin performance. Average deposits increased $51 million or 1.1% quarter-over-linked quarter, that's primarily seasonal and not a lot going on underneath the hood there.

最終結果是，本季稅收等值淨利差從上一季的 4.88% 下降 3 個基點至 4.85%。我們相信這將繼續帶來卓越的利潤表現。平均存款比上一季增加了 5,100 萬美元，增加了 1.1%，這主要是季節性因素，並沒有​​太多內部因素。

Old Second should continue to build capital as evidenced by the 144 basis points improvement in the TCE ratio over the past year, which means we have added $1.78 of tangible book value over the last 12 months, pretty strong performance. Evergreen will absorb some of this capital cushion, however, Old Second will still have an exceptionally strong and flexible capital position.

Old Second 應該會繼續累積資本，這一點可以從過去一年 TCE 比率提高 144 個基點看出，這意味著我們在過去 12 個月中增加了 1.78 美元的有形帳面價值，表現相當強勁。長榮將吸收部分資本緩衝，但老二仍將擁有異常強大且靈活的資本狀況。

To that end, and subsequent to the end of the quarter, we repurchased approximately 327,000 shares and a privately negotiated transaction at a modest discount to market. Our perceptions on capital return continue to evolve given the Evergreen Bank acquisition consumed significantly less capital than almost any other potential deal we could have done. Our financials remain relatively uncluttered by the impact of purchase accounting going forward due to the lack of significant fair value marks associated with the transaction.

為此，在本季結束後，我們以低於市價的價格回購了約 327,000 股股票，並進行了私下協商的交易。鑑於收購長青銀行所消耗的資本比我們可能進行的幾乎任何其他潛在交易都要少得多，我們對資本回報的看法也在不斷演變。由於缺乏與交易相關的重要公允價值標記，我們的財務狀況仍相對不受未來購買會計的影響。

Noninterest expense was materially on track with the previous quarter, increasing $1.1 million primarily due to significant lower OREO expenses in the current quarter Noninterest expense is running higher year over year, increasing $5.5 million compared to the same quarter last year, primarily due to higher salaries and employee benefits as well as occupancy cost, computer and data processing and core deposit intangibles.

非利息支出與上一季基本持平，增加了 110 萬美元，主要原因是本季度奧利奧 (OREO) 支出大幅下降；非利息支出同比增長，與去年同期相比增加了 550 萬美元，主要原因是工資和員工福利以及佔用成本、計算機和數據處理以及核心存款無形資產增加。

Most of the core deposit and tangible expense related to the five branches we acquired late last year. Overall, we are hopeful we can keep core expense growth, exclusive of acquisitions in the kind of 4% area. Not a lot going on in terms of this quarter, I think it's pretty transparent. The trends remain very strong, still feel very good, as Jim mentioned, about the estimates we put forward as it relates to Evergreen.

大部分核心存款和有形支出與我們去年年底收購的五家分行有關。總體而言，我們希望能夠維持核心支出（不包括收購）成長在 4% 左右。就本季而言，沒有太多事情發生，我認為這相當透明。正如吉姆所提到的，對於我們提出的與 Evergreen 相關的估計，趨勢仍然非常強勁，感覺仍然非常好。

He also mentioned bias slightly higher. I think that from a rate standpoint, things still feel roughly balanced to me in terms of status quo versus some level of recession and/or rate cuts. I don't see rate cuts happening absent a recession. Obviously, there's some butterfly somewhere that's flapping its wings that can make things very different than that expectation.

他也提到偏見略高。我認為，從利率的角度來看，現狀與一定程度的衰退和/或降息之間仍然大致保持平衡。我認為，如果沒有經濟衰退，就不會降息。顯然，某處有一隻蝴蝶在扇動翅膀，這可能會使事情與預期大不相同。

But as we sit here right now, I feel exceptionally good about how we're positioned. And I believe that while it's difficult to get the margin forecast for next quarter, given we're not done with the fair value marks, I'm very bullish that our market will remain at exceptionally strong levels over the remainder of the year and into next.

但當我們現在坐在這裡時，我對我們的定位感到非常滿意。我相信，雖然很難獲得下個季度的利潤率預測，但考慮到我們尚未完成公允價值標記，我非常看好我們的市場將在今年剩餘時間和明年保持異常強勁的水平。

With that, I would like to turn the call back over to Jim.

說完這些，我想把電話轉回給吉姆。

Thank you, Brad. In closing, as Brad mentioned, we feel this is a very solid quarter for the company. We remain confident in our positioning and extremely exciting with what the Evergreen Bank transaction will add for us. We're off to a strong start for the first half of 2025 and we are extremely optimistic about the rest of the year ahead as we welcome the Evergreen team and its product offerings.

謝謝你，布拉德。最後，正如布拉德所提到的，我們認為這對公司來說是一個非常穩健的季度。我們對我們的定位仍然充滿信心，並且對長榮銀行交易將為我們帶來的好處感到非常興奮。我們在 2025 年上半年取得了良好的開端，並且我們對今年剩餘時間的前景非常樂觀，因為我們歡迎 Evergreen 團隊及其產品。

That concludes our prepared comments this morning. So I'll turn it over to the moderator and open it up to questions.

今天早上我們準備好的評論到此結束。因此我將把它交給主持人並開放提問。

(Operator Instructions) Jeff Rulis, D.A. Davidson.

（操作員說明）Jeff Rulis，D.A.戴維森。

Just wanted to check, kick in on the -- maybe the timing of conversion expected on Evergreen. And on that expense run rate, it's a two-part, the conversion timing and then run rate -- kind of looking at -- kind of 52, 53 on a core basis. Does that sound in the ballpark?

只是想檢查一下，也許是 Evergreen 預計的轉換時間。就費用運行率而言，它由兩部分組成，即轉換時間和運行率——以核心為基礎，約為 52、53。這聽起來合理嗎？

Yes, I think some of that relates to timing of the cost saves. The conversion, we expect to be kind of early fourth-quarter type range, early to mid. So by the time we report fourth quarter and kind of December is the first time that you'll see a closer to final run rate on operating expenses and then first quarter should be relatively clean.

是的，我認為這與節省成本的時間有關。我們預計轉換將處於第四季初至中期的範圍內。因此，當我們報告第四季度和 12 月的情況時，您將第一次看到接近最終的營運費用運行率，而第一季應該會相對乾淨。

Got it. And then if you could remind us that at acquisition date, the loan to deposit balances brought over?

知道了。然後，如果您可以提醒我們，在收購日，貸款到存款餘額結轉了嗎？

For Evergreen? Yeah, they were just north of 90%.

對於長榮來說？是的，他們剛好超過 90%。

Okay, 90% loan deposits.

好的，90%的貸款存款。

Well, the actual levels, I think it was [1.3 billion] -- 1, 2 in change.

嗯，我認為實際水準是 [13 億]－變化 1、2。

Got it. And then just one last one on the -- you called out the owner-occupied CRE that bought into classified. So if you could just wrap a little more detail about kind of geography or your position on that one?

知道了。最後再問一個問題－您提到了購買分類房產的自住 CRE。那麼，您能否更詳細地介紹一下地理狀況或您的立場呢？

Yes, Jeff, it really steps from one large health care transaction in Oregon. We don't see a loss at this at all. We're in a very strong collateral position, 70% covered loan to value. The facility had some restrictions put on by the state of Oregon, which caused a drag on their ability to lease up the facility.

是的，傑夫，它確實源自於俄勒岡州的一項大型醫療保健交易。我們根本不認為這有什麼損失。我們的抵押品狀況非常強勁，貸款價值比達到 70%。該設施受到俄勒岡州的一些限制，這阻礙了他們租賃該設施的能力。

A lot of those restrictions have been freed up and we expect cash flow to get stronger in each subsequent quarter. So we've got a good sponsor behind us as well. So we don't see any loss given the fault here.

許多限制已經解除，我們預計每季的現金流都會變得更加強勁。所以我們背後也有一個很好的贊助商。因此，我們認為此處的故障不會造成任何損失。

David Long, Raymond James.

大衛朗、雷蒙詹姆斯。

Good morning, everyone. First question relates to just overall commercial client sentiment. When we were back in April, having this call, we were coming off a Liberation Day and everything seemed to be toned down a bit. Just curious what you're hearing from your commercial customers and their appetite to grow their business and close some of the loans that may be in your pipeline?

大家早安。第一個問題只涉及整體商業客戶情緒。當我們四月回來接到這個電話時，我們剛剛度過解放日，一切似乎都平靜了一些。我只是好奇您從商業客戶那裡聽到了什麼，以及他們對發展業務和完成您可能正在處理的一些貸款的興趣？

Yes. I think, first of all, Dave, I would say our commercial clients are weathering the tariff uncertainly exceptionally well. Appetite for CapEx has been muted, I would say, for the first half of the year, and that shows up in pretty low levels of line utilization. We are seeing pockets of growth in our leasing group and some in commercial real estate.

是的。我認為，首先，戴夫，我想說我們的商業客戶非常好地抵禦了關稅不確定性。我想說，今年上半年對資本支出的需求一直很低，這反映在生產線利用率相當低。我們的租賃集團和一些商業房地產集團都出現了成長。

Even though we had a pretty good quarter from a loan growth perspective, that did not come with any growth in our sponsored finance group. That group has been obviously a historically very strong performer for us. Loan demand in that area has been somewhat weak, although they are reporting pretty strong second half pipeline.

儘管從貸款成長角度來看，我們本季表現相當不錯，但我們的贊助金融集團並未實現任何成長。顯然，該集團在歷史上一直是我們的強勁表現者。儘管報告稱下半年貸款需求相當強勁，但該地區的貸款需求一直有些疲軟。

And then you couple that with Evergreen Bank, which typically, historically is a very strong second and third quarter asset generator in the powersports area. So we're encouraged by loan pipelines. And the second quarter for us, that was our strongest growth quarter in over two years. So we think low- to mid-single-digit growth is possible still for 2025.

然後你將其與長榮銀行結合起來，從歷史上看，長榮銀行通常是動力運動領域第二季和第三季非常強大的資產產生器。因此，我們對貸款管道感到鼓舞。對我們來說，第二季是兩年多來成長最強勁的季度。因此我們認為 2025 年仍有可能實現低至中等個位數的成長。

Got it. Appreciate it. And then as a follow-up, you mentioned the Evergreen deal and maybe having a little bit more of a positive bias than when the deal was announced. Is that tied to the performance of that bank since you've announced the deal? And then as a tie-in to that, just any turnover worth noting with that transaction?

知道了。非常感謝。然後作為後續問題，您提到了長榮的交易，並且可能比交易宣佈時有更多積極的看法。自您宣布交易以來，這是否與該銀行的業績有關？那麼作為與此相關的，該交易中是否有任何值得注意的營業額？

Yes. They're performing well ahead of what we had assumed. I mean the way M&A works is you basically have stub period that you have to project in terms of what it's going to be and what level of profitability is performing at and you project it forward one year, two year, three year as a stand-alone entity that's for better or worse, that's kind of industry standard that was done.

是的。他們的表現遠遠超出了我們的預期。我的意思是，併購的運作方式基本上是，你必須有一個存根期，你必須預測它將會是什麼樣子，以及盈利水平會達到什麼水平，然後你將其預測為一年、兩年、三年後的獨立實體，無論好壞，這都是已經完成的行業標準。

They are already on the stand-alone entity performing at the profit level that I had assumed for all of next year. So they are running better than what we had expected. It's a great asset mix. It's certainly pretty good probably to our margin, which I hadn't assumed it would be. That's difficult to say with fair value is not completed.

他們作為獨立實體，其獲利水準已經達到了我預計的明年全年水準。因此他們的表現比我們預期的要好。這是一個很棒的資產組合。這對我們的利潤來說肯定是相當不錯的，我之前並沒有想到會是這樣。這很難說公允價值沒有完成。

That's the bias right now. My gut is usually pretty good. You didn't give me credit. I was right on margin this quarter, even though nobody got mad that we missed it by 20 basis points last quarter, because I guess that we missed it in the right direction. But overall, things feel pretty good.

這就是目前的偏見。我的直覺通常都很好。你沒有給我信用。本季我的利潤率是正確的，儘管沒有人因為我們上個季度的利潤率低於預期 20 個基點而生氣，但我想我們錯失了正確的方向。但總體而言，情況感覺相當不錯。

Nathan Race, Piper Sandler.

內森·雷斯，派珀·桑德勒。

I was hoping to talk about the outlook for charge-offs going forward. Obviously, you're picking up a higher risk reward business from Evergreen when you think about their lending specialties. So just curious with that business in the fold and all the improvement on the legacy Old Second side of things, how you're thinking about kind of the charge-off trajectory going forward?

我希望談論未來沖銷的前景。顯然，當您考慮到 Evergreen 的貸款專長時，您會選擇風險回報更高的業務。所以我很好奇，隨著這項業務的合併以及傳統 Old Second 方面的所有改進，您如何看待未來的沖銷軌跡？

Yes. Nate, I mean, I think obviously, a solid quarter for us from a charge-off perspective, I think we just had one about $1 million that fully reserved for. But I think investors should know that in powersports lending in general, loss rates can run a little bit higher. But you have to look at that hand in hand with the contribution margin that, that portfolio generates.

是的。內特，我的意思是，我認為從沖銷的角度來看，這顯然是我們的一個穩健的季度，我認為我們剛剛完全預留了約 100 萬美元。但我認為投資人應該知道，在動力運動貸款方面，損失率通常會更高一些。但你必須將其與投資組合產生的貢獻利潤結合起來看待。

So losses in that book could be anywhere between what, 1% and 1.5%. I feel like that's pretty good. But you're also looking at a portfolio with an average coupon today on new assets going on around 9%. So you have to look at those things hand-in-hand going forward.

因此，該帳簿的損失可能在 1% 到 1.5% 之間。我覺得這樣挺好的。但您也會看到，如今新資產的平均票面利率約為 9%。所以你必須全面地看待這些事情。

Right. So if I was doing some quick back of the envelope math on their portfolio and overlaying that loss rate? Am I in the ballpark of around kind of 30 basis points going forward on charge-offs?

正確的。那麼，如果我對他們的投資組合進行一些快速的數學計算並疊加損失率呢？我估計未來沖銷額度大約在 30 個基點左右嗎？

Yes, I think so. I think that's good.

是的，我認為是這樣。我認為那很好。

Okay. Great. And then obviously, with Evergreen, you're picking up a higher beta deposit franchise, particularly relative to legacy Old Second. So just curious, Brad, to maybe get your updated thoughts on how you think the margin responds following a 25 basis points Fed cut at some point going forward?

好的。偉大的。顯然，透過 Evergreen，您將獲得更高的 beta 存款特許經營權，特別是相對於傳統的 Old Second 而言。所以我只是好奇，布拉德，也許想聽聽你的最新想法，你認為在未來某個時候聯準會降息 25 個基點後，利潤率會如何反應？

Yes, what is that?

是的，那是什麼？

I will let you [pontificate] on that, Brad.

布拉德，我讓你對此發表意見。

I don't know, man. I was just (inaudible) yesterday and what used to be $13 is now $16 and that happened like in the last two weeks. And somebody just forwarded me the price increases at Walmart in the last 30 days. My interest rate prognosticator newsletter has a really hard time seeing our rate cut this year. I don't see a basis for it. I think people will [fight] for it.

我不知道，夥計。我昨天剛剛（聽不清楚），以前的 13 美元現在是 16 美元，這就像過去兩週發生的那樣。有人剛剛轉發給我沃爾瑪過去 30 天內的漲價訊息。我的利率預測通訊很難預測今年我們的利率會下降。我看不出其中有什麼依據。我認為人們會為此而奮鬥。

Here we are also in a land of mean stocks running again. Jim had to exit this call for a little bit to go and buy some [GameStop] and some calls. I think. So he'll be back in just a second. So it's against my moral fiber and something approximating (inaudible) to think about a rate cut this year. It doesn't make any sense to me, whereas before we had said we lose somewhere between 4 to 7 basis points for every 25 basis points cut, I would say that's 25% lighter conservatively on a pro forma basis.

現在，我們又處於股票價格再次上漲的情況。吉姆不得不暫時退出通話，去買一些 [GameStop] 和一些電話。我認為。所以他馬上就回來。因此，考慮今年降息是違背我的道德準則的，而且有點（聽不清楚）。對我來說這沒有任何意義，而之前我們說過每降息 25 個基點，我們就會損失 4 到 7 個基點，我認為從備考角度保守估計會損失 25%。

But there's more margin movement for us right now just in balance sheet movements. As Jim mentioned, we sold the entire securities portfolio and reduced some wholesale funding. All those assets were limited. They were being carried at a net negative margin contribution. So there are a number of things going on under the hood that are more powerful than movements and expected interest rates within the Fed futures curve.

但目前我們的資產負債表變動中利潤率變動較大。正如吉姆所提到的，我們出售了整個證券投資組合併減少了一些批發融資。所有這些資產都是有​​限的。他們的淨保證金貢獻為負。因此，幕後發生的許多事情比聯準會期貨曲線內的變動和預期利率更為強大。

Put it this way, we gave up 3 basis points this quarter despite something approximating 40 basis points of movement out the SOFR curve. So I think we're less sensitive than maybe people expect at this point. And I have been somewhat surprised that the margin durability given what the curve has done over the last year. I think that if you had three beers in me, I would probably raise what I believe the long-term margin floor is for Old Second even on a stand-alone basis before Evergreen was added to it.

這麼說吧，儘管本季 SOFR 曲線出現了約 40 個基點的變動，但我們還是放棄了 3 個基點。所以我認為我們現在的敏感度可能沒有人們想像的那麼高。考慮到過去一年曲線的變化，我對利潤率的持久性感到有些驚訝。我想，如果你喝了三杯啤酒，我可能會提高我認為 Old Second 的長期保證金底線，即使在 Evergreen 加入之前單獨提高。

So this is -- if you know me, this is about as bullish as I sound, monotone and all. I'd say if you make me assume there's a rate cut this year, I would say 4 basis points to give up. Man, I answered that with a lot of words.

所以這是——如果你了解我，你就會知道這聽起來和我一樣樂觀，單調乏味。我想說，如果你讓我假設今年會降息，我會說放棄 4 個基點。夥計，我用很多話來回答這個問題。

Yes. I mean, I would say that we're three weeks after the close, right, of Evergreen. And you're right, they have higher beta funding shop, but we started bringing high-yield money markets down and deposit levels have been remarkably solid. We have not seen a whole lot of runoff. Again, it's only been three weeks, but I would agree with Brad right now, things are about as good as we could have hoped.

是的。我的意思是，我想說我們已經在 Evergreen 交易結束後的三週了。你說得對，他們有更高的貝塔融資商店，但我們開始降低高收益貨幣市場，存款水平一直非常穩固。我們還沒有看到大量的徑流。再說一次，雖然才過了三週，但我現在同意布拉德的觀點，事情已經和我們所希望的一樣好了。

Got it. That's really helpful color and thoughts. So Brad, just maybe starting for the third quarter, given the repositioning of some of the securities portfolio at Evergreen and some of the other impacts on the deal, how are you thinking kind of like a range for the margin for the third quarter?

知道了。這確實是很有幫助的色彩和想法。那麼布拉德，也許從第三季開始，考慮到 Evergreen 部分證券投資組合的重新定位以及對交易的一些其他影響，您如何看待第三季的利潤率範圍？

Nate, I'm going to go flat, but there's a wider margin error than is typical with me. So it's flat plus or minus 10 basis points instead of plus or minus 5. And bearing in mind, when I answer that last quarter, I said flat and then it went up by 20 basis points. So without the fair value work is being done, it's difficult to say with any precision, but it doesn't feel like down, this is what I'd say.

內特，我會保持平穩，但誤差幅度比我通常的要大。因此，它是平的，正負 10 個基點，而不是正負 5 個基點。請記住，當我回答上個季度的問題時，我說的是持平，但後來它上升了 20 個基點。因此，如果沒有進行公允價值計算工作，就很難準確地說出，但感覺並不像下降，這就是我要說的。

Okay. That's helpful. It sounds like you're more keen on the margin outlook than tax rate. So I'll leave it there.

好的。這很有幫助。聽起來你對利潤前景比稅率更感興趣。所以我就把它留在那裡。

David Konrad, KBW.

大衛·康拉德，KBW。

Just a little bit of a follow-up to that recent discussion. Just maybe add a little color to absent of what you paid down in wholesale deposits. Kind of what is their cost of funds bringing over and maybe the leverage you guys have over the next year plus of just working down that with your strong deposit franchise?

這只是對最近討論的一點跟進。也許只是為您支付的批發定金的缺失增添一點色彩。他們的資金成本是多少？也許你們明年的槓桿率是多少？再加上你們強大的存款特許經營權，你們的槓桿率是多少？

I mean, you can see what their cost of funds were and in their stand-alone financials. It's in the 4% range. Where do I expect to be by the end of next quarter? I would expect reliance on purely market rate funds, and that's something with 4% handle to be $100 million to $200 million less. So I'll let you math your way to that.

我的意思是，你可以看到他們的資金成本是多少以及他們的獨立財務狀況。它在 4% 的範圍內。我預計下個季度末會達到什麼水準？我預計依賴純市場利率基金，如果利率為 4%，那麼資金將減少 1 億至 2 億美元。因此，我會讓你用數學的方法來實現這一點。

But in aggregate, the overall stand-alone cost of funds within Evergreen should be down somewhere between 30 and 70 basis points. Again, there are movements here. And I'm speaking about a quarter that is only one-third of the way done. So it's a little difficult, decisions are being made on the fly here.

但總體而言，Evergreen 的整體獨立資金成本應該會下降 30 至 70 個基點。再次，這裡也有動靜。我說的是只完成了三分之一的四分之一。所以這有點困難，這裡的決定都是臨時做出的。

For example, nobody has asked me yet, but I don't think we'd be able to sell that solar loan portfolio that we had mentioned previously because I don't want to sell it where we have to market, then the mark is so steep that it actually becomes a pretty good asset. So we're learning as we go here, but that's about as precise as I can get at this point.

例如，還沒有人問過我，但我認為我們無法出售之前提到的太陽能貸款組合，因為我不想在我們必須行銷的地方出售它，那麼標記就會非常高，以至於它實際上成為一項相當不錯的資產。所以我們一邊學習一邊做，但這是我目前能做到的最精確的程度。

But moving past this quarter, I guess, can your deposit growth absorb their loan growth or you continue to kind of fund marginally with that set of --

但過了這個季度，我想，你的存款成長能否吸收他們的貸款成長，或者你能否繼續用這套資金進行小幅融資--

We've got a substantial amount of ring given where our stand-alone loan-to-deposit ratio is and time deposit runoff coming in future quarters. It's not an overnight thing. But as we exit next year, if I haven't guessed, I would say we would be at a 90% loan-to-deposit ratio and an overall cost of funds that's substantially better than A+B.

考慮到我們的獨立貸存比以及未來幾季的定期存款流失，我們已經獲得了大量的環比成長。這不是一朝一夕就能完成的事。但當我們明年退出時，如果我沒有猜到的話，我會說我們的貸存比將達到 90%，整體資金成本將大大優於 A+B。

I spoke previously about a desire to pick up some supplemental small deposit franchise equivalent to, say, First Merchants branch deal that we did prior that would meaningfully basically return us to where we were before. So there's certainly room for that. Will it come to fruition? I don't know. Hope so.

我之前談到過，我們希望獲得一些補充小額存款特許經營權，相當於我們之前達成的 First Merchants 分支機構交易，這將使我們從根本上回到以前的狀態。所以肯定還有空間。它會實現嗎？我不知道。希望如此。

Terry McEvoy, Stephens.

特里·麥克沃伊，史蒂芬斯。

Maybe just a follow-up, Brad, on that last question, would your preference be to wait until Evergreen is integrated before your next transaction or something along the lines like you just mentioned, became for sale, would you take a serious look this year?

布拉德，也許只是跟進一下最後一個問題，您是否願意等到 Evergreen 整合後再進行下一次交易，或者像您剛才提到的那樣，進行出售，您會在今年認真考慮嗎？

I mean, we're always looking, but ideal timing wouldn't be before October or no. I think there will be a serious risk of like a palace crew and me falling out a window or something like that. People will be very upset with me internally. Acquisitions are a lot of work. And you hear things about in this industry of -- it's only four branches or it's only five branches where it's only 10 branches and that is a wild understatement on the amount of work that's involved.

我的意思是，我們一直在尋找，但理想的時間不會是在十月之前或之後。我認為宮廷工作人員和我可能會從窗戶掉下去之類的，這是一個嚴重的風險。人們內心裡會對我非常不滿。收購需要大量工作。您可能會聽到有關這個行業的消息——它只有 4 個分支機構，或者只有 5 個分支機構，甚至只有 10 個分支機構，這對於所涉及的工作量來說是一個很大的低估。

This one does have some advantages that help us, namely a similar core that makes things a little bit easier, but there are a whole lot of buys and a whole lot of fees that need to be dotted and crossed so you get it right. It's a lot better than it used to be, but small missteps in conversions can touch in the newspaper as we've seen even in some deals around discount in the last couple of years. We don't want to be in the news.

這個確實有一些對我們有幫助的優勢，即類似的核心使事情變得更容易一些，但是有很多購買和很多費用需要點劃掉才能讓你做對。現在的情況比以前好多了，但是轉換過程中的小失誤可能會影響報紙，正如我們在過去幾年的一些折扣交易中看到的那樣。我們不想成為新聞人物。

Yes. I mean, Terry, I think in a perfect world, we'd like to pause here, digest the deal integrated and start growing organically a little better. But as you know, M&A timelines are unpredictable, rarely do seller buyer timelines come into alignment. So we'll continue to be opportunistic, but we've got plenty to do today.

是的。我的意思是，特里，我認為在一個完美的世界裡，我們想在這裡停下來，消化整合的交易，並開始更好地有機增長。但正如您所知，併購時間表是不可預測的，賣方和買方的時間表很少會一致。因此，我們將繼續抓住機會，但今天我們還有很多事情要做。

I appreciate that. And then you mentioned repurchasing 327,000 shares in a private sale. Did that happen after the deal? And were the sellers connected to the bank that's sold? Or was that separately or separate? And then I guess as a follow-up with the appetite for incremental buyback?

我很感激。然後您提到在私下出售中回購 327,000 股。交易完成後發生了這種情況嗎？賣家與被出售的銀行有聯絡嗎？還是那是分開的或分開的？然後我猜想作為後續對增量回購的興趣？

It was a private equity investment, and it was subsequent to the deal closing. The execution price was $18 per share in quarter. Buyback remains a viable option for us, Terry.

這是一項私募股權投資，是在交易結束後進行的。本季的執行價格為每股 18 美元。特里，回購對我們來說仍然是可行的選擇。

(Operator Instructions) Brian Martin, Janney.

（操作員指示）Brian Martin，Janney。

I'll leave the tax question, Brad, since it sounds like you don't want to end on that anyhow. So maybe just one back for the margin, Brad, just bigger picture. Once things reset in third quarter and you get through some of the noise which -- it sounds like you're more optimistic than pessimistic.

布拉德，我就不討論稅務問題了，因為聽起來你無論如何都不想就此結束。因此，也許只是為了邊緣而回來，布拉德，只是更大的圖像。一旦第三季情況恢復正常，你就能克服一些噪音——聽起來你會更樂觀而不是悲觀。

But just directionally from there, how should we be thinking about the margin kind of in a flat rate environment? I mean who knows what happens at the Fed. But once you kind of reset and get to the noise like you're talking about this quarter, can you give any thought just directionally how the margin, kind of what the puts or takes on the outlook thereafter?

但從方向來看，我們該如何考慮固定費率環境下的利潤率？我的意思是誰知道聯準會會發生什麼事。但是，一旦你重新調整並開始關注你在本季度談論的噪音，你能否從方向上考慮利潤率如何，以及此後前景如何？

I mean a flat rate environment a longer, meaning that we don't see this whipsaw in SOFT and overnight index rates that we've seen over the last 90 days, but truly flat along the curve, our margin is stable and durable -- slightly higher with what Evergreen brings to the table. Obviously, different per scenarios from that, from totally stable, which doesn't really exist in nature. Things are always moving in one direction or another.

我的意思是，固定利率環境會持續更長時間，這意味著我們不會看到軟利率和隔夜指數利率像過去 90 天那樣出現大幅波動，而是沿著曲線真正保持平穩，我們的利潤率穩定且持久——Evergreen 帶來的利潤率略高。顯然，每種情況都有所不同，完全穩定，而這在自然界中並不存在。事物總是朝著一個方向或另一個方向發展。

But I feel very good about what our margin outlook is. We're not offside on any debt. We do have a sub debt issue that like to deal with next year that will be a negative to margin, and don't know what the plan is for that yet. But assuming that gets taken care of in a way that's not dilutive to margin, then I would say our margin is both stable and durable.

但我對我們的利潤前景感到非常滿意。我們在任何債務問題上都沒有越位。我們確實有一個次級債務問題，希望明年處理，這將對利潤產生負面影響，目前還不知道對此有什麼計劃。但假設以不稀釋利潤的方式處理這個問題，那麼我想說我們的利潤既穩定又持久。

Got you. And you talked about just kind of a long-term floor maybe being raised. Kind of how are you thinking about that kind of that long-term floor on where the margin is as you look perspectively?

明白了。您談到了可能提高長期底線的問題。從您的角度來看，您如何看待利潤的長期底線？

Well, I mean, you've heard me say it before that I do not believe that there is a pathway back to a 0% interest rate world. And then bank like us are fundamentally better positioned even though there aren't many banks like us. And I had said previously and saved everybody the time of going back through transcripts.

嗯，我的意思是，你之前聽我說過，我不相信有一條道路可以回到 0% 利率的世界。儘管像我們這樣的銀行並不多，但從根本上來說，我們處於更有利的地位。我之前已經說過了，這節省了大家回顧成績單的時間。

I said previously that I believe that our margin floor was probably around 4%. If you tie me down and maybe answer the question today, which you kind of are, it's probably more like [4.25%] would be my guess at an absolute floor.

我之前說過，我認為我們的利潤率下限可能在 4% 左右。如果您今天能讓我回答這個問題，那麼我猜的絕對底線可能更像是 [4.25%]。

Got you. I appreciate all the color. And then how about just in terms of once you -- given some of the noise that's going to play out here in the near term of the deal, can you talk about what -- when you get to that maybe first quarter of next year with the deal closed, integrated, kind of how you're thinking about ROA just so we kind of back into kind of how we should think about things.

明白了。我欣賞所有的色彩。那麼，考慮到交易近期將會出現的一些噪音，您能否談談，當您到明年第一季交易完成、整合後，您會如何考慮 ROA，以便我們回到我們應該如何思考事情。

But what do you think ROA is going to trend to in '26, whether you point to a quarter or a year, Brad. Whatever you can offer just in terms of your outlook from where we stand today?

但是，布拉德，無論您指的是一個季度還是一年，您認為 26 年的 ROA 趨勢如何。從我們目前的立場來看，您能提供什麼看法嗎？

You are confusing me now. Are we talking about rate cuts land again? Or are we talking about -- are we still talking about stable interest rates? What are we talking about here?

你現在讓我困惑了。我們又在談論土地降息了嗎？或者我們仍在談論——我們仍在談論穩定的利率嗎？我們在這裡談論什麼？

We'll go with your scenario, Brad, I don't know, just like you don't know. I guess I'm just wondering where you think ROA is going to land in your thinking, which sounds like probably no rate cuts. So go with that. That's fine.

我們會按照你的情況來，布拉德，我不知道，就像你不知道一樣。我想我只是想知道您認為 ROA 將會下降到什麼程度，這聽起來可能不會降息。那就這樣吧。沒關係。

I would feel very comfortable above [1.50%] ROA.

如果 ROA 高於 [1.50%]，我會感覺非常舒服。

Above [1.50%] okay. And then I think you answered the question about buyback, you're on the table at this point for --

高於 [1.50%] 就可以了。然後我想你回答了關於回購的問題，你現在正在討論--

Open to it, yes.

是的，對此持開放態度。

Open to it, okay. And then just last one on loan growth. It sounds like you're a bit more optimistic on loan growth?

敞開心扉，好的。最後再談談貸款成長。聽起來您對貸款成長更樂觀？

Second and third quarter generally are better quarters, Brian, do you know that. What I'm most encouraged about is having more lending verticals to help sustain that growth has been encouraging.

第二季和第三季通常是更好的季度，布萊恩，你知道嗎？最讓我感到鼓舞的是，有更多的貸款垂直領域來幫助維持這種令人鼓舞的成長。

Now to be fair, we did not have as many payoffs or paydowns in the second quarter, but it was one of our stronger origination quarters than we've had in some time. So I would expect some growth again in the third quarter and then probably some stabilization in the fourth and first quarter.

公平地說，我們在第二季度沒有那麼多的還款或還款，但這是我們一段時間以來最強勁的發起季度之一。因此我預計第三季將再次成長，第四季和第一季可能會趨於穩定。

Thank you very much. Well, we appear to have reached the end of our question-and-answer session. I will now turn the call back over to Jim for any closing remarks.

非常感謝。好吧，我們的問答環節似乎已經結束了。現在我將把電話轉回給吉姆，請他做最後發言。

Okay. Thanks, everyone, for joining us this morning and for your interest in our company. We look forward to speaking with you again next quarter. Goodbye.

好的。感謝大家今天早上的參加以及對我們公司的關注。我們期待下個季度再次與您交談。再見。

Thank you very much. This does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation.

非常感謝。今天的會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開電話線，祝您有美好的一天。我們感謝您的參與。