納微半導體 (NVTS) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to Navitas Semiconductor first-quarter 2025 financial results conference call.

午安.感謝您的支持。歡迎參加納維半導體 2025 年第一季財務業績電話會議。

Please be advised today's conference is being recorded. A replay will be available on Navitas' Investor Relations website.

請注意，今天的會議正在錄製。重播將在 Navitas 投資者關係網站上提供。

I would now like to hand the conference over to Lori Barker, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我想將會議交給投資者關係部門的 Lori Barker。請繼續。

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Lori Barker, Investor Relations for Navitas. Thank you for joining Navitas Semiconductor's first-quarter 2025 results conference call.

大家下午好。我是 Navitas 投資者關係部門的 Lori Barker。感謝您參加 Navitas Semiconductor 2025 年第一季業績電話會議。

I'm joined, today, by Gene Sheridan, our President, CEO, and Co-Founder; and Todd Glickman, CFO.

今天與我一起出席的還有我們的總裁、執行長兼聯合創始人 Gene Sheridan；以及財務長 Todd Glickman。

A replay of this webcast will be available on our website approximately one hour following this conference call; and available for approximately 30 days. Additional information related to our business is also posted on the Investor Relations section of our website.

本次網路廣播的重播將在電話會議結束後約一小時在我們的網站上提供；並且可用約 30 天。與我們的業務相關的其他資訊也發佈在我們網站的投資者關係部分。

Our earnings release includes non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures with the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included in our first-quarter earnings release and, also, posted on our website in the Investor Relations section.

我們的收益報告包括非公認會計準則財務指標。這些非 GAAP 財務指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的對帳包含在我們的第一季財報中，並且也發佈在我們網站的投資者關係部分。

Non-GAAP expenses and operating margin include stock-based compensation, amortization of intangible assets, and other non-recurring items.

非公認會計準則費用和營業利潤率包括股票薪酬、無形資產攤銷和其他非經常性項目。

In this conference call, we will make forward-looking statements about future events or about the future financial performance of Navitas. You can identify these statements by words like we expect, we believe, or similar terms.

在本次電話會議中，我們將對未來事件或 Navitas 的未來財務表現做出前瞻性陳述。您可以透過「我們期望」、「我們相信」或類似的字詞來識別這些陳述。

We wish to caution you that such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual events or results to differ, materially, from expectations expressed in our forward-looking statements.

我們希望提醒您，此類前瞻性陳述受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際事件或結果與我們的前瞻性陳述中表達的預期有重大差異。

Important factors that can affect Navitas' business, including factors that could cause actual results to differ from our forward-looking statements, are described in our earnings release. Please also refer to the Risk Factors sections in our most recent 10-K and 10-Q.

我們的收益報告中描述了可能影響 Navitas 業務的重要因素，包括可能導致實際結果與我們的前瞻性陳述不同的因素。另請參閱我們最新的 10-K 和 10-Q 中的風險因素部分。

Our estimates or other forward-looking statements may change. And Navitas assumes no obligation to update forward-looking statements to reflect actual results, changed assumptions, or other events that may occur, except as required by law.

我們的估計或其他前瞻性陳述可能會改變。除法律要求外，Navitas 不承擔更新前瞻性陳述以反映實際結果、改變的假設或可能發生的其他事件的義務。

And, now, over to Gene Sheridan, CEO.

現在，交給執行長 Gene Sheridan。

Thanks to all of you for joining our Q1 '25 earnings call.

感謝大家參加我們的 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。

Our Q1 2025 revenues came in line with guidance at $14 million and 38% gross margin.

我們的 2025 年第一季營收符合預期，達到 1,400 萬美元，毛利率為 38%。

While the slowdown in channel inventory in EV, solar, and industrial continues to present some near-term headwinds in our business, I want to walk through a number of important recent market and product developments that I expect will set up for a strong 2026, as the market recovers and many design wins kick in later this year.

雖然電動車、太陽能和工業通路庫存的放緩繼續為我們的業務帶來一些短期阻力，但我想介紹一下近期一些重要的市場和產品發展，我預計隨著市場復甦和今年晚些時候許多設計勝利的到來，這些發展將為 2026 年的強勁發展奠定基礎。

In Q1, we announced the industry's first production release of a bidirectional GaN IC. As we described in our online launch event and available video, GaN bidirectional switches or BDS, is a revolutionary new technology that creates an ideal switch that the industry has never seen in 40-plus years of power semiconductor development.

在第一季度，我們宣布推出業界首個雙向 GaN IC 的生產版本。正如我們在線上發表會和影片中所描述的，GaN 雙向開關或 BDS 是一項革命性的新技術，它創造了業界在 40 多年的功率半導體發展中從未見過的理想開關。

No other power semi device in the industry's history across silicon, GaN, or silicon carbide has achieved this ideal combination of capabilities. GaN BDS makes it technically and commercially feasible to reduce traditional two-stage converters that are used in over 70% of power electronics into one single stage, while enabling bidirectional energy flow.

業界歷史上，沒有任何其他跨越矽、GaN 或碳化矽的功率半導體裝置能夠實現這種理想的功能組合。GaN BDS 使得將 70% 以上電力電子元件中使用的傳統兩級轉換器簡化為單級轉換器在技術和商業上變得可行，同時實現雙向能量流動。

GaN BDS eliminates dozens of large and expensive components in that second stage, resulting in size, weight, cost, and power loss improvements of 30% or more.

GaN BDS 消除了第二階段的數十個大型昂貴組件，從而使尺寸、重量、成本和功率損耗改善了 30% 或更多。

When combined with our new IsoFast family of high-frequency isolated drivers, this chipset creates new opportunities to accelerate GaN adoption with the single-stage converters into EV onboard chargers, solar microinverters, charging and discharging of energy storage systems, motor control applications, and others.

與我們全新的 IsoFast 系列高頻隔離驅動器相結合，該晶片組創造了新的機會，可以透過單級轉換器加速 GaN 在電動汽車車載充電器、太陽能微型逆變器、儲能係統充電和放電、馬達控制應用等領域的採用。

The first customer adopting our GaN BDS is in solar microinverters and expects to ramp later this year. And we expect others to ramp throughout 2026 in a number of the applications mentioned.

第一個採用我們的 GaN BDS 的客戶是太陽能微型逆變器領域，預計今年稍後將實現量產。我們預計其他一些應用程式也將在 2026 年之前大幅成長。

In addition, we announced our GaNSafe technology has now been automotive-qualified to the challenging AEC P101 standard.

此外，我們宣布我們的 GaNSafe 技術現已通過汽車認證，符合具有挑戰性的 AEC P101 標準。

And our GaNSafe has been adopted in the industry's first GaN EV onboard charger design with Changan Auto, a top EV maker in China, with expected production in early '26. This is a major industry-first achievement.

我們的 GaNSafe 已被中國頂級電動車製造商長安汽車採用於業界首款 GaN 電動車載充電器設計中，預計將於 26 年初投入生產。這是業界首創的一項重大成就。

Additional GaN EV wins are expected to also ramp throughout 2026, as Navitas is pioneering GaN adoption into an entire new mainstream market of electric vehicles.

隨著 Navitas 率先將 GaN 引入全新的電動車主流市場，預計 2026 年 GaN 電動車的銷量也將大幅成長。

We have released a comprehensive GaN reliability report, which not only highlights this major Q101 automotive qualification achievement but demonstrates our aggregate field reliability track record, which spans seven years since first GaN production release in 2018.

我們發布了一份全面的 GaN 可靠性報告，該報告不僅強調了這項重要的 Q101 汽車認證成就，還展示了我們自 2018 年首次發布 GaN 產品以來七年來的整體現場可靠性記錄。

Over this time, we've advanced the technology and its reliability across four generations and continual design, innovations, and integrations that have translated into an aggregate 250 million units shipped and a continuous improvement in field reliability that has now reached an unprecedented 100 parts per billion failure rate, far exceeding any industry requirement.

在此期間，我們透過四代技術的不斷進步和設計、創新與整合，不斷提昇技術及其可靠性，累計出貨量已達 2.5 億台，現場可靠性不斷提高，現已達到前所未有的 100 ppb 故障率，遠遠超過任何行業要求。

In a similar fashion, we have spent the last two years, since the GeneSiC acquisition, improving and demonstrating the extraordinary reliability performance of our GeneSiC technology. We will soon be announcing a new reliability standard we call AEC Plus, which exceeds the stringent automotive AEC standards by 100% or more for many of the industry standard reliability tests and as compared to our testing of competitive technologies.

同樣，自從收購 GeneSiC 以來，我們花了兩年時間改進和展示 GeneSiC 技術的非凡可靠性能。我們很快就會宣布一項名為 AEC Plus 的新可靠性標準，該標準在許多行業標準可靠性測試中以及與我們對競爭技術的測試相比，都超出了嚴格的汽車 AEC 標準 100% 或更多。

When we combine this impressive reliability achievement with our demonstrated ultra-high-voltage capability, enabling silicon carbide to support 2.3 kV and up to 6.5 kV, we are pioneering reliability and voltage capabilities essential in enabling new energy markets that include next-generation megawatt ,applications spanning EV fast chargers, energy storage, renewable energy, and grid infrastructure upgrades.

當我們將這項令人印象深刻的可靠性成就與我們已證明的超高壓能力相結合時，使碳化矽能夠支援 2.3 kV 和高達 6.5 kV，我們開創了可靠性和電壓能力，這對於包括下一代兆瓦級應用在內的新能源市場至關重要，涵蓋電動車快速充電器、儲能、可再生能源和下一代兆瓦級應用在內的新能源市場至關重要，涵蓋電動車快速充電器、儲能、可再生能源和下一代電網基礎設施升級等應用。

Stay tuned for many more market developments and customer wins on this front.

請繼續關注這方面的更多市場發展和客戶勝利。

Also, while passenger battery electric vehicles have seen some slowdown in inventory corrections, we're excited to announce adoption of our silicon carbide technology, with two significant commercial EV customers.

此外，雖然乘用電池電動車的庫存調整有所放緩，但我們很高興地宣布，我們的碳化矽技術已被兩家重要的商用電動車客戶採用。

While the commercial EV market, which includes long-haul trucks, forklift, mining, and other commercial applications is a smaller market compared to passenger EVs, it requires much higher power, higher voltage, higher reliability, plus higher silicon carbide content, a perfect fit for our GeneSiC technology.

雖然商用電動車市場（包括長途卡車、堆高機、採礦和其他商業應用）與乘用電動車相比規模較小，但它需要更高的功率、更高的電壓、更高的可靠性以及更高的碳化矽含量，這非常適合我們的 GeneSiC 技術。

We're happy to announce two significant wins in this space, which we expect to enable a multimillion-dollar impact in 2026.

我們很高興地宣布我們在這一領域取得了兩場重大勝利，預計這將在 2026 年產生數百萬美元的影響。

In data centers, AI continues to drive a dramatic increase in total power, power density, and power efficiency. Navitas continues our significant system design progress, utilizing our latest GeneSiC and GaNSafe ICs, including new Intelliweave control technology, where we started with a 2.7 kilowatt design last year and then, pushed power levels in new system designs to 3.2 kilowatt, 4.5 kilowatt, 8.5 kilowatt. And today, I'm pleased to announce a new 12-kilowatt design that we will formally launch at Computex later this month.

在資料中心，人工智慧持續推動總功率、功率密度和功率效率的大幅提升。Navitas 繼續在系統設計方面取得重大進展，利用我們最新的 GeneSiC 和 GaNSafe IC，包括新的 Intelliweave 控制技術，我們去年從 2.7 千瓦的設計開始，然後將新系統設計的功率水平提高到 3.2 千瓦、4.5 千瓦、8.5 千瓦。今天，我很高興地宣布我們將於本月稍晚在台北國際電腦展上正式推出一款新的 12 千瓦設計。

12-kilowatt represents an industry first for data centers. And this platform is only possible with a combination of GaN and silicon carbide technologies, a perfect fit for our pure-play wideband gap capabilities.

12千瓦是資料中心產業的首創。該平台只有結合 GaN 和碳化矽技術才能實現，完美契合我們的純寬帶隙能力。

While most initial Blackwell-based systems are utilizing power supply designs in the range of 4.5 kilowatts, this 12-kilowatt platform will enable Blackwell, Blackwell Ultra, and future Rubin platforms to more than double the total rack power to as much as 500 kilowatts.

雖然大多數基於 Blackwell 的初始系統都採用 4.5 千瓦範圍內的電源設計，但這個 12 千瓦的平台將使 Blackwell、Blackwell Ultra 和未來的 Rubin 平台的總機架功率增加一倍以上，達到 500 千瓦。

We already have over 75 customer projects in production or development using either silicon carbide, GaN, or both; and expect this pipeline to accelerate with this 12-kilowatt launch.

我們已經有超過 75 個客戶專案正在使用碳化矽、GaN 或兩者進行生產或開發；並預計隨著這台 12 千瓦的發電設備的推出，這條管道將加速發展。

Last week, we announced some Board and executive changes, which we believe will accelerate the company's transition from early growth stage to much greater scale and profitability.

上週，我們宣布了一些董事會和高階主管的變動，我們相信這將加速公司從早期成長階段轉向更大規模和獲利能力的轉變。

To enhance our governance, we have separated the Chair and CEO roles and announced Rick Hendrix as our new Independent Chair. Rick has been on the Board since our IPO and brings significant capital markets and executive leadership skills to the role.

為了加強我們的治理，我們將董事長和執行長的角色分開，並宣布 Rick Hendrix 為我們的新獨立董事長。自從我們首次公開募股以來，里克就一直擔任董事會成員，並為該職位帶來了重要的資本市場和高階主管領導技能。

We also announced our CTO, COO, Dan Kinzer, is transitioning into a technical advisory role, with the anticipation of a new incoming COO that we expect to announce in the near future. At Navitas and throughout my career, Dan has been a great friend and business partner and has been instrumental in the creation of Navitas, over the last 10-plus years.

我們也宣布，我們的技術長兼營運長 Dan Kinzer 將轉任技術顧問一職，我們預計不久的將來還將宣布新任營運長的任命。在 Navitas 以及我的整個職業生涯中，Dan 一直是我的好朋友和商業夥伴，在過去十多年中，他對 Navitas 的創建發揮了重要作用。

While his executive role is changing, we look forward to Dan's world-class innovation contributions, going forward, in his new advisory role.

雖然他的執行角色正在發生變化，但我們期待丹在未來的新顧問角色中做出世界一流的創新貢獻。

Let me summarize the significant market and technology developments that I've described today:

讓我總結一下我今天所描述的重大市場和技術發展：

Our high-powered GaN ICs and silicon carbide technologies are very well positioned to open up all new markets for Navitas; and in many cases, for the industry.

我們的高功率 GaN IC 和碳化矽技術非常適合為 Navitas 開拓所有新市場；在許多情況下，對於產業而言也是如此。

GaNSafe and GeneSiC technologies are ramping into mainstream AI data center applications throughout this year.

GaNSafe 和 GeneSiC 技術今年正在進入主流 AI 資料中心應用。

Bidirectional GaN is a game-changing technology that we expect will start enabling next-generation solar microinverters in the second half of this year.

雙向 GaN 是一項改變遊戲規則的技術，我們預計它將在今年下半年開始支援下一代太陽能微型逆變器。

GaNSafe is now auto-qualified and will be the first GaN adopted in mainstream EV applications, expected to begin production early next year.

GaNSafe 現已獲得汽車認證，並將成為主流電動車應用中採用的首款 GaN，預計將於明年初開始生產。

GeneSiC technology is now qualified to far exceed these automotive reliability standards and is gaining important share in commercial EV applications.

GeneSiC 技術現已遠遠超出這些汽車可靠性標準，並在商業電動車應用中佔據重要份額。

Combined with our ultra-high voltage capability of 2.3 kV or higher, GeneSiC is an enabling technology for a broad range of new-energy megawatt applications that are critical to fulfill our mission to electrify our world.

結合我們 2.3 kV 或更高的超高壓能力，GeneSiC 是一種適用於廣泛新能源兆瓦應用的支援技術，對於實現我們電氣化世界的使命至關重要。

Now, let me turn it over to Todd to discuss our financial performance and outlook.

現在，讓我把話題交給托德來討論我們的財務表現和前景。

Thank you, Gene.

謝謝你，吉恩。

In my comments today, I will take you through our first-quarter 2025 financial results. And then, I'll walk you through our outlook for the second quarter, along with our current view on how recent market and tariff dynamics may impact our business.

在今天的評論中，我將帶您了解我們 2025 年第一季的財務表現。然後，我將向您介紹我們對第二季的展望，以及我們對近期市場和關稅動態如何影響我們業務的當前看法。

Revenue in the first quarter of 2025 was at the midpoint of guidance at $14 million. As expected, the sequential decline was due to seasonality and soft demand with associated remaining inventory correction. The decline compared to a year ago quarter was primarily the result of lower revenues in the EV and solar markets.

2025 年第一季的營收達到預期的中點，為 1,400 萬美元。正如預期的那樣，連續下降是由於季節性和疲軟的需求以及相關的剩餘庫存調整。與去年同期相比的下降主要是由於電動車和太陽能市場收入下降。

Before addressing gross profit and expenses, I'd like to refer you to the GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliations in our press release, earlier today. In the rest of my commentary, I will refer to non-GAAP measures.

在討論毛利和費用之前，我想先請大家參閱一下我們今天早些時候發布的新聞稿中的 GAAP 與非 GAAP 的對帳。在我的其餘評論中，我將參考非公認會計準則衡量指標。

Gross margin in the first quarter was 38.1%, which was down sequentially compared to 40.2% in the fourth quarter, primarily due to less favorable market mix.

第一季毛利率為 38.1%，較第四季的 40.2% 下降，主要原因是市場結構較不利。

In the first quarter, we executed on further synergies and operational efficiencies associated with prior acquisitions and we reduced operating expenses sequentially to $17.2 million, which is ahead of scheduled cost reductions.

在第一季度，我們進一步發揮了與先前收購相關的協同效應和營運效率，並將營運費用環比削減至 1,720 萬美元，這超出了預定的成本削減目標。

Operating expenses were comprised of SG&A expenses of $8.3 million and R&D expenses of $8.8 million. Consolidating certain support and engineering functions and sites and further streamlining the business demonstrates our ability to balance operational efficiency, while we continue investing in next-generation GaN and SiC technology and in-market developments, primarily in the data center, EV, and mobile sectors.

營運費用包括 830 萬美元的銷售、一般及行政費用和 880 萬美元的研發費用。整合某些支援和工程功能和站點並進一步精簡業務表明了我們平衡營運效率的能力，同時我們將繼續投資下一代 GaN 和 SiC 技術和市場開發，主要在資料中心、電動車和行動領域。

Adding all this together, the first-quarter 2025 loss from operations improved sequentially to $11.8 million from $12.7 million in the fourth quarter 2024, with cost reductions more than offsetting quarter-over-quarter revenue decline.

綜合以上因素，2025 年第一季的營業虧損從 2024 年第四季的 1,270 萬美元環比改善至 1,180 萬美元，成本削減足以抵銷環比收入下降的影響。

Our weighted average share count for the first quarter was 188 million shares.

我們第一季的加權平均股數為 1.88 億股。

Turning to the balance sheet. Accounts receivable sequentially declined to approximately $12 million from $14 million in the prior quarter. And inventory remained relatively flat at $16 million.

轉向資產負債表。應收帳款從上一季的 1,400 萬美元環比下降至約 1,200 萬美元。庫存則保持相對平穩，為 1,600 萬美元。

Our balance sheet remains very strong, as we exit Q1 2025 with high levels of liquidity and an improved working capital position.

我們的資產負債表依然非常強勁，到 2025 年第一季末，我們的流動性水準較高，營運資金狀況也得到改善。

Cash and cash equivalents at quarter end were $75 million. And we continue to carry no debt.

季度末的現金和現金等價物為 7,500 萬美元。而且我們仍然沒有負債。

Moving on to guidance for the first quarter. We currently expect revenues in the range of $14 million to $15 million, reflecting continued softness and industry-wide inventory corrections in solar, EV, and industrial end markets.

繼續討論第一季的指導。我們目前預計收入在 1400 萬美元至 1500 萬美元之間，反映出太陽能、電動車和工業終端市場的持續疲軟和全行業的庫存調整。

The impact of tariffs is dynamic. And we are continuing to monitor the latest updates, particularly between China and the US. While SiC represents a minority of our total revenue, our products are produced in the US.at X-FAB and the majority is sold in China.

關稅的影響是動態的。我們將繼續關注最新動態，特別是中美之間的局勢。雖然 SiC 只占我們總收入的一小部分，但我們的產品是在美國 X-FAB 生產的，大部分在中國銷售。

Ultimately, our US SiC manufacturing location will provide Navitas, over time, with a significant strategic advantage with our US customers for EV, solar, energy storage, and grid infrastructure. We anticipate GaN revenues, which represent the significant majority of our revenue today to have a very limited direct impact from tariffs, as our GaN products are manufactured in Taiwan and are sold predominantly outside the US.

最終，我們的美國碳化矽製造基地將為 Navitas 在電動車、太陽能、儲能和電網基礎設施領域為美國客戶提供顯著的戰略優勢。我們預計，GaN 收入（占我們目前收入的絕大部分）受到關稅的直接影響非常有限，因為我們的 GaN 產品在台灣製造，主要銷往美國以外地區。

Despite the tariff risks in our China SiC revenues in the second half of the year, we continue to anticipate growth to resume towards the end of the year, fueled by our strong design wins across AI, data center, solar, EV, and mobile sectors.

儘管下半年我們的中國碳化矽收入面臨關稅風險，但我們仍然預計，由於我們在人工智慧、資料中心、太陽能、電動車和行動領域的強勁設計勝利，成長將在年底前恢復。

Gross margin for the second quarter is expected to be slightly higher than the first quarter, with our guidance at 38.5%, plus or minus 50 basis points, as our expected mix continues to lean toward the mobile market in the near term.

預計第二季的毛利率將略高於第一季度，我們的預期為 38.5%，上下浮動 50 個基點，因為我們的預期組合在短期內將繼續傾向於行動市場。

Turning to operating expenses. We anticipate operating expenses of $15.5 million in the second quarter, down from $17.2 million in Q1 2025, as we continue to execute on our plan of streamlining the business across mobile, data center, and EV to drive the business to EBITDA breakeven.

談到營運費用。我們預計第二季的營運費用為 1,550 萬美元，低於 2025 年第一季的 1,720 萬美元，因為我們將繼續執行精簡行動、資料中心和電動車業務的計劃，以推動業務實現 EBITDA 收支平衡。

For the second quarter of 2025, we expect our weighted average share count to be approximately 194 million shares.

對於 2025 年第二季度，我們預計加權平均股數約為 1.94 億股。

In closing, while we are thoughtfully navigating the near-term softness in some of our end markets, we expect our significant design wins and the technology advances that are enabling new market developments in AI data center, solar microinverters, EV, and broader new energy markets to put us in a strong position to drive growth later this year and throughout 2026.

最後，雖然我們正在認真應對部分終端市場的短期疲軟，但我們預計，我們取得的重大設計勝利和技術進步將推動人工智慧資料中心、太陽能微型逆變器、電動車和更廣泛的新能源市場的新市場發展，使我們在今年晚些時候和整個 2026 年處於有利地位，推動成長。

Operator, let's begin the Q&A session.

接線員，我們開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Ross Seymore, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的羅斯·西摩。

Gene, the first one is on the visibility into the second half. Generally, the $450 million of design wins you talked about, any change in the timing or magnitude of those?

吉恩，第一個問題是關於下半場的可見性。總的來說，您談到的 4.5 億美元設計合同，其時間或規模有任何變化嗎？

I just hope you could walk us through, in a general sense. I know visibility is probably still somewhat limited in the second half. But in a general sense, how you see those rolling out, as we look into the second half of this year and then, 2026?

我只是希望您能為我們大致介紹一下。我知道下半年的可見度可能仍然有限。但從總體上看，當我們展望今年下半年以及 2026 年時，您如何看待這些舉措的實施？

Well, yeah, definitely. Thanks for your question, Ross.

嗯，是的，確實如此。謝謝你的提問，羅斯。

It's worth repeating the $450 million design wins was pretty extraordinary last year. Our focus this year is on converting those from wins to production orders.

值得重複的是，去年贏得的 4.5 億美元設計獎相當了不起。我們今年的重點是將這些訂單轉化為生產訂單。

As a reminder, that's lifetime revenue. So it can span from one year on mobile to maybe a few years on the high-power markets. And that revenue kicks in over three years, either late this year, most -- a good percentage of late this year, the vast majority in '26, and a little bit of them in '27.

提醒一下，這是終身收入。因此，它在行動裝置上的應用可能持續一年，而在高功率市場上則可能持續數年。這些收入將在三年內到賬，要么在今年年底到賬，要么大部分到賬——很大一部分到賬，要么在 2026 年到賬，還有一小部分到賬，要么在 2027 年到賬。

So it does depend on the start time and the ramp time of them all. But we have a good outlook to converting those design wins into purchase orders, which is why we feel, despite some headwinds in the overall semiconductor downturn, a little bit of unknowns here. with tariffs, as Todd described.

所以它確實取決於它們的開始時間和上升時間。但我們對於將這些設計勝利轉化為採購訂單抱有良好的前景，這就是為什麼儘管整個半導體產業面臨一些阻力，但我們仍覺得這裡存在一些未知數。正如托德所描述的那樣，徵收關稅。

We feel good about driving solid growth late in the year and setting up a really strong 2026, largely because of those design wins, which we expect will actually accelerate with some of the technology announcements we made in Q1.

我們對在今年年底實現穩健成長並為 2026 年設定一個強勁的成長目標感到高興，這主要歸功於這些設計上的勝利，我們預計，隨著我們在第一季度發布的一些技術公告的發布，這一增長實際上將加速。

Then, I guess one for Todd, on the profitability side of things. Anything changed as far as how long you're planning to stick at $15.5 million on the OpEx side and the goal to reach EBITDA breakeven sometime.

然後，我想從獲利能力方面來說，托德可以談談這一點。至於您計劃在營運支出方面維持 1,550 萬美元多久，以及在某個時候達到 EBITDA 收支平衡的目標，一切都改變了。

The timing might be a little bit different. But the revenues are going to be in the mid- to-upper-30s per quarter. Is that still the bogey? Anything has changed on that front?

時間可能會有點不同。但每季的營收將達到 35% 左右。這還是個忌諱嗎？這方面有什麼變化嗎？

Yeah. Nothing really has changed there. We're still tracking to that target of 15.5% on OpEx and expect to stay at those levels.

是的。那裡確實什麼都沒有改變。我們仍在追蹤 15.5% 的營運支出目標，並希望維持在這個水準。

And then, as we mentioned in the prior call, we're still tracking to that breakeven in the high 30s, which we expect to happen in 2026.

然後，正如我們在之前的電話會議中提到的那樣，我們仍在追蹤 30 多歲的收支平衡點，預計這將在 2026 年實現。

Jack Egan, Charter Equity Research.

傑克·伊根（Jack Egan），特許權益研究公司。

So because Navitas -- there's a lot of applications like automotive and data centers that can use both silicon carbide and/or GaN. I was just curious: How do your total design wins and pipeline break down, between the two materials? Is it similar to how your actual revenue is today, where it's predominantly GaN? Or is it a bit more balanced?

因為 Navitas——有很多應用，例如汽車和資料中心，可以同時使用碳化矽和/或 GaN。我只是好奇：在這兩種材料之間，您的整體設計勝利和流程細分如何？這與您目前的實際收入情況相似嗎？主要來自 GaN？或者說更平衡一點？

Yeah. Great question, Jack.

是的。問得好，傑克。

That's a really important point because EV, specifically onboard chargers, are really ideal for a combination of silicon carbide in the first stage, GaN in the second stage; almost identical situation for AI data centers.

這是一個非常重要的點，因為電動車，特別是車載充電器，第一階段使用碳化矽，第二階段使用 GaN，這兩者的組合非常理想；人工智慧資料中心的情況幾乎相同。

Ideal. In fact, the 12-kilowatt, the 8.5 kilowatt, almost all of our designs are using silicon carbide in the first stage for PFC gallium nitride, where you want to go (inaudible); and high efficiency in that second stage.

理想的。事實上，12 千瓦、8.5 千瓦，我們幾乎所有的設計都在第一階段使用碳化矽作為 PFC 氮化鎵，你想要去哪裡（聽不清楚）；並且第二階段效率很高。

And then, we're really growing, nicely, silicon carbide into more commercial EV, higher-power industrial. I really highlighted the high reliability, high voltage, and high-power capability of our silicon carbide that's winning in its own right in certain high-power markets, just like GaN is doing really well in the low-power markets like appliance -- and the mobile, of course, is our traditional strength.

然後，我們真正地將碳化矽發展到更商業化的電動車和更高功率的工業領域。我特別強調了我們的碳化矽的高可靠性、高電壓和高功率能力，它在某些高功率市場中憑藉自身優勢贏得了勝利，就像 GaN 在家用電器等低功耗市場中表現非常出色——當然，行動裝置是我們的傳統優勢。

So when you apply that back to the pipeline, it was $2.4 billion last year, $450 million design wins, lifetime wins. While we don't break it out by GaN (inaudible), it's very well balanced between the two.

因此，當你將其應用到管道上時，去年的成本為 24 億美元，設計勝利和終身勝利為 4.5 億美元。雖然我們沒有透過 GaN（聽不清楚）來區分它，但兩者之間的平衡非常好。

It's going to vary, of course, by segment. But it's quite well balanced and not at all indicative of the near-term revenue split, where we've seen that silicon carbide drop because of the industry slowdown and pockets of channel inventory, while GaN is kind of at an all-time high.

當然，它會因細分市場的不同而有所差異。但它相當平衡，根本不能代表近期的收入分配，我們已經看到碳化矽由於行業放緩和渠道庫存而下降，而 GaN 則處於歷史最高水平。

So we see them much more balanced, going forward, based on that pipeline.

因此，基於該管道，我們認為未來它們的發展將更加平衡。

And then I noticed that R&D declined quite a bit, where SG&A was actually up or MG&A was up a bit in the quarter. Can you just discuss that a bit? Is that going to limit your ability to invest in next-generation tech at all?

然後我注意到研發費用下降了不少，而銷售、一般及行政費用實際上卻上升了，或者說本季管理、一般及行政費用略有上升。能稍微討論一下嗎？這是否會限制您投資下一代科技的能力？

No. I think if you look at Q1 in a nutshell, SG&A is a little bit higher, as we have one-time expenses related to the cost reductions and audit fees. So that's not our typical spend there.

不。我認為，如果你簡要地看一下第一季度，你會發現銷售、一般和行政費用會稍微高一些，因為我們有與成本削減和審計費用相關的一次性支出。所以這不是我們在那裡的典型支出。

I think as you look forward into 2025 compared to '24, you're going to see that split being around 55% R&D versus 45% SG&A.

我認為，當你展望 2025 年並與 2024 年進行比較時，你會發現研發費用佔比約為 55%，而銷售、一般及行政費用佔比約為 45%。

So there shouldn't be a change in our split. We're just bringing the levels down, proportionately, from where we were before.

所以我們的分手應該不會改變。我們只是按比例降低之前的水平。

Jonathan Tanwanteng , CJS Securities, Inc.

Jonathan Tanwanteng，CJS 證券公司

I was wondering if you could give us a little bit more specific details on your exposure to China; maybe the ASP per unit you're selling into China. And if the tariff situation has been enough to cause customers to, maybe, dial back their plans or pause them or maybe even try to second source or design you out of prior design wins?

我想知道您是否可以向我們提供一些有關您在中國業務的更具體細節；也許是您在中國銷售的每單位平均售價。如果關稅情況已經足以導致客戶取消他們的計劃或暫停他們的計劃，或者甚至嘗試從你之前的設計中尋找第二個供應商或設計你？

Yeah. Thanks, Jon.

是的。謝謝，喬恩。

Well, first, as Todd described on the GaN, we don't see much risk or impact. Taiwan manufacturing isn't a target or impacted by China tariffs. Our US exposure, there is pretty small, even if there was an eventual Taiwan tariff to kick in.

首先，正如 Todd 在 GaN 上所描述的那樣，我們沒有看到太大的風險或影響。台灣製造業不是中國關稅的目標，也不會受到其影響。即使最終對台灣徵收關稅，我們在美國的風險敞口仍然很小。

I think the conversation is mainly around silicon carbide. As Todd described, silicon carbide, today, is a minority of our total revenue. But a majority of that minority, if you will, is silicon carbide shipping into China.

我認為討論主要圍繞碳化矽。正如托德所描述的，如今碳化矽只占我們總收入的一小部分。但如果你願意的話，這少數中的大多數是運往中國的碳化矽。

So that's where the rest could be. Actually, the country of origin, today, defined by China tariffs is based on the packaging location.

其餘部分可能就在那裡。實際上，如今中國關稅對原產國的定義是基於包裝位置的。

We have a very strong China -for-China strategy that I think serves us really well in these geopolitically complicated times. Most of our packaging is in China. So as it's literally defined today, we shouldn't be exposed to tariffs. And we're not having an immediate impact to tariffs.

我們有一個非常強大的「對華」戰略，我認為這個戰略在當今地緣政治複雜的時期對我們非常有幫助。我們的大部分包裝都在中國。所以，按照今天的字面定義，我們不應該受到關稅的影響。而且我們不會立即對關稅產生影響。

There is speculation though, that if that country of origin should change to fab location, that could have an impact because our fab location is US. So that's a little speculative. And that's why we emphasize it's dynamic.

不過，有人猜測，如果原產國改為晶圓廠所在地，可能會產生影響，因為我們的晶圓廠所在地是美國。所以這有點推測。這就是我們強調其動態性的原因。

We're keeping an eye on it. Maybe, it could have an adverse impact later in the year. That's really what we're trying to judge.

我們正在密切關注此事。也許，它會在今年晚些時候產生不利影響。這確實是我們想要判斷的。

The flip side of that is actually a really good strength. We have US country-of-origin manufacturing in the United States. That's a strategic region. We see a lot of growth in the future. And there, not only we'll be avoiding tariffs, we see that as a really positive for our US customers.

另一方面，這實際上是一種非常好的優勢。我們在美國擁有美國原產國製造業務。那是一個戰略要地。我們預見未來將會有很大的成長。這樣，我們不僅可以避免關稅，而且這對我們的美國客戶來說也是一件非常有利的事情。

Maybe, just to expand on the subject a little bit more, and looking forward: Let's say, the tariffs stay in place or they stay fairly high. Is there any plans out in the horizon to, maybe, expand your foundry base to other places where you can produce SiC outside of the U.S. or GaN inside?

也許，只是為了進一步擴展這個主題，並展望未來：假設關稅保持不變或保持在相當高的水平。未來是否有計劃將你們的代工基地擴展到美國以外生產 SiC 或在美國生產 GaN 的其他地方？

Yeah. That's exactly right. Nothing to formally announce. But we have things well underway that could move us into different territories, should that worst-case scenario happen that would work around those trended tariffs over time.

是的。完全正確。尚無正式宣布的消息。但我們目前正在進行的各項工作可能會將我們帶入不同的領域，如果發生最壞的情況，隨著時間的推移，這些趨勢關稅將會得到解決。

Madison DePaola, Rosenblatt Securities.

麥迪遜‧德保拉 (Madison DePaola)，羅森布拉特證券公司。

Could you, guys, just provide some more color on the traction that you're seeing in the data center vertical?

各位，你們能否提供一些關於資料中心垂直領域所看到的牽引力的更多資訊？

Yesh. Definitely, Madi. Thanks for the question.

是的。當然，Madi。謝謝你的提問。

We've come a long way from 2.7 kilowatts to 3.2, 4.5; most recently, 8.5; and now today, for the first time, announcing 12 kilowatts, the details of which will be fully rolled out at Computex, later this month. So that's a lot of progress.

我們已經從 2.7 千瓦進步到了 3.2、4.5 千瓦；最近一次是8.5；今天，我們首次宣布將採用 12 千瓦的功率，其詳細信息將於本月晚些時候在 Computex 上全面公佈。這是一個很大的進步。

On the one hand, we've been pleased that a lot of customers have adopted GaN or silicon carbide, even when they didn't really have to for performance reasons. I think even at the lower power levels, you don't have to have GaN or silicon carbide.

一方面，我們很高興看到很多客戶採用了 GaN 或碳化矽，即使出於性能原因他們實際上並不需要這樣做。我認為即使在較低的功率水平下，也不必使用 GaN 或碳化矽。

Some have tried it out because they know that's the future and they better get on with learning the design, maturing the design, proving it out in their production.

有些人已經嘗試過了，因為他們知道這是未來，他們最好繼續學習設計，完善設計，並在生產中證明它。

A lot of Blackwell has gone to production with four- to five-kilowatt designs. Many of those can be done with silicon today.

許多採用四至五千瓦設計的 Blackwell 發電機已投入生產。如今，許多這樣的任務都可以用矽來完成。

Again, you don't have to have gallium nitride and silicon carbide. So I think that's probably slowed down what we hope to be a bigger ramp this year.

再說一遍，你不必擁有氮化鎵和碳化矽。所以我認為這可能減緩了我們今年希望實現更大成長的速度。

On the other hand, once you get to 8.5, I think that's a real turning point. Very difficult to design the 8.5 kilowatt with the density, with the efficiencies that are required without going to GaN and silicon carbide.

另一方面，一旦你達到 8.5，我認為這是一個真正的轉捩點。如果不使用 GaN 和碳化矽，設計出具有所需密度和效率的 8.5 千瓦功率是非常困難的。

And I would venture to say impossible to deliver the 12-kilowatt, that we just announced, without GaN and silicon carbide technologies; and even uniquely ours, arguably. So I think that gives you some color.

我敢說，如果沒有 GaN 和碳化矽技術，就不可能實現我們剛剛宣布的 12 千瓦的目標；甚至可以說是我們獨有的。所以我認為這給你提供了一些線索。

I also mentioned the other way to look at this is rack power, not just the power supply itself. Each one of these power supplies I'm talking about: you can put six across the shelf or tray; and then, you can have multiple shelves assigned to power. The rest of the rack or the rest of the shelves would go towards the processing, Blackwell, et cetera.

我還提到了看待這個問題的另一種方式是機架電源，而不僅僅是電源本身。我談論的每一個電源：你可以在架子或託盤上放六個；然後，您可以為多個架子分配電源。其餘的貨架或層架將用於加工，布萊克威爾等等。

So while some of the Blackwells have started with 4 or 5 kilowatts, that might get you to a 50 or 100-kilowatt type of rack power but if you listen to NVIDIA and anybody else, where this is headed, we're very quickly going to 250 to 400 to 500 kilowatts; and then, maybe headed towards 1 megawatt, over the next few years.

因此，雖然一些 Blackwell 的起步功率為 4 或 5 千瓦，但這可能會使機架功率達到 50 或 100 千瓦，但如果您聽聽 NVIDIA 和其他任何人的意見，就會知道我們的發展方向，很快就會達到 250 到 400 到 500 千瓦內；然後，在未來幾年內。

Those are pretty crazy numbers. And it's hard to imagine achieving those without going to at least 8.5 and, now, I think, frankly, 12 kilowatt, which, as I said, gets you really close to that 0.5 megawatt.

這些數字真是令人瘋狂。很難想像如果不達到至少 8.5 千瓦，就無法實現這些目標，現在，坦白說，我認為是 12 千瓦，正如我所說的，這非常接近 0.5 兆瓦。

So I think that sets us up really well for any new Blackwell or Blackwell Ultra designs; and, of course, really well positioned for Rubin, which would come late next year.

所以我認為這為我們任何新的 Blackwell 或 Blackwell Ultra 設計做好了充分準備；當然，這對魯賓來說也是一個非常有利的條件，他的到來將於明年年底到來。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Richard Shannon, Craig-Hallum Capital Group.

克雷格-哈勒姆資本集團的理查德·香農。

I'll ask the first one on solar, a multi-parter here.

我將問第一個關於太陽能的問題，這裡有多個部分。

Can you give us a better sense of when you're expecting to see this ramp at some point later this year? And as I recall -- at least in the past, you've talked about this -- this has been a design you expect to be multi-sourced. Maybe, you can discuss where your position there is?

您能否告訴我們您預計在今年稍後何時看到這個坡道？我記得——至少在過去，您曾談論過這個問題——這是一個您期望多源設計。也許，您可以討論一下您的立場是什麼？

And, then, lastly, are you seeing any other microinverter customers moving towards GaN and possibly using Navitas?

最後，您是否看到其他微型逆變器客戶轉向 GaN 並可能使用 Navitas？

Yeah. Thank you, Rich, for bringing it up. We didn't put a spotlight on it too much.

是的。謝謝你，Rich，提出這個問題。我們並沒有過度關注它。

But number 1, it's super exciting to see GaN going into 3 new markets in the next 12 months.

但首先，看到 GaN 在未來 12 個月內進入 3 個新市場，真是令人興奮。

AI data centers, already ramping. Solar microinverters, in particular, as you pointed out, ramping in the second half of the year. GaN going into EV, early next year.

人工智慧資料中心已開始蓬勃發展。正如您所指出的，太陽能微型逆變器將在下半年迎來爆發式成長。GaN 將於明年初進入電動車領域。

So we've got quite a sequence of events in opening up new mainstream markets.

因此，我們在開拓新的主流市場方面採取了一系列措施。

And not only is microinverters adopting GaN, it's adopting GaN bidirectional switches, which is, as I highlighted, really the most ideal switch the industry has ever seen.

微型逆變器不僅採用了 GaN，還採用了 GaN 雙向開關，正如我所強調的，這確實是業界迄今為止最理想的開關。

It can handle high currents and high voltages, delivering those currents and blocking those voltages, inherently, in both directions; but does it with super high frequency and high efficiency of GaN.

它可以處理高電流和高電壓，本質上在兩個方向上傳輸電流和阻斷電壓；而是利用GaN的超高頻率和高效率來實現的。

That's pretty exciting stuff and makes a ton of sense for microinverters. So yes, those are still on track for the second half.

這是非常令人興奮的事情，對於微型逆變器來說非常有意義。是的，下半年這些仍將按計劃進行。

We are seeing Q3 ramp a little lower than expected. More of that revenue starts in Q4. And the really big numbers are next year.

我們看到第三季的成長略低於預期。更多收入將於第四季開始增加。而真正重要的數字將在明年出現。

I think we feel good. It will be multi-sourced, as you pointed out.

我認為我們感覺很好。正如您所指出的，它將是多來源的。

Those final commercial negotiations are not done. They'll be done over the next quarter.

最終的商業談判尚未完成。它們將在下個季度完成。

But I think we feel good about our position being the first GaN bidirectional switch -- actually, production released in Q1, as I highlighted. That's another major first.

但我認為，我們對自己作為第一個 GaN 雙向開關的地位感到滿意——實際上，正如我強調的那樣，產品在第一季發布。這是另一項重大的首創。

We've got a really important advantage in our proprietary substrate clamp, which makes the part really reliable and really robust.

我們的專有基板夾具具有非常重要的優勢，這使得該零件非常可靠且非常堅固。

So I think all that positions us well to take a good share and ramp that up, as expected late in the year. And, again, pretty big numbers next year.

因此，我認為所有這些都使我們能夠佔據良好的市場份額，並在今年稍後實現成長。而且，明年的數字還會相當大。

We already have other microinverter companies that have approached us in the last six months, starting new designs. I don't think any of them will get to production this year. But I expect to see other solar microinverter guys starting next year.

在過去六個月內，已經有其他微型逆變器公司與我們聯繫，開始新的設計。我認為今年它們都不會投入生產。但我預計明年會看到其他太陽能微型逆變器製造商。

And to the broader message, GaN BDS, again, will go into EV onboard chargers and other energy storage systems. And I think we'll see some of those going into production next year, as well.

更廣泛的訊息是，GaN BDS 將再次進入電動車車載充電器和其他儲能係統。我認為明年我們也會看到其中一些產品投入生產。

My follow-on question, here, is just getting a top-down understanding of dollar growth, as we go over the next year, year-plus. What -- you pick your time frame in 2026, as some of these new applications develop?

我的後續問題是，隨著未來一年甚至一年多的時間，我們要自上而下地了解美元的成長。什麼——您選擇 2026 年作為時間框架，因為其中一些新應用程式正在開發？

But if we look at EV, solar, industrial -- and I'm probably forgetting the others -- data center. Like, is there ones that have a more disproportionate contribution to the dollar growth, from the starting point in the second quarter?

但如果我們看看電動車、太陽能、工業——我可能忘記了其他的——資料中心。例如，從第二季開始，有哪些因素對美元成長的貢獻較大？

Yeah. It's a good question.

是的。這是個好問題。

Certainly, if you look at the pipeline, you look at the design wins -- I know we didn't break it down in incredible detail --it's really well distributed. I mean, solid wins.

當然，如果你看一下管道，你會看到設計的勝利——我知道我們並沒有把它分解得非常詳細——但它的分佈確實很好。我的意思是，穩固的勝利。

We gave the total of $450 million of lifetime wins last year. That was pretty solidly distributed.

去年我們總共發放了 4.5 億美元的終身獎金。分佈相當均勻。

We had 40 wins in data center. That's now up to 75 in total, as I mentioned in the call.

我們在資料中心取得了 40 場勝利。正如我在電話中提到的，現在總數已經達到 75 個。

We had 40 wins in EV e-mobility. We had 28 in appliance industrial. We actually had 100 in solar and energy storage; the biggest being that GaN BDS for solar microinverters. And another 180, which has a long tail in the mobile consumer.

我們在電動車領域取得了 40 場勝利。我們家電業有 28 家。我們實際上有 100 個太陽能和能源儲存；最大的是用於太陽能微型逆變器的 GaN BDS。另外還有 180 個，它們在行動消費者方面具有長尾效應。

They all have different dollar values, of course. But it points to the diversity. So it's really hard to pick one.

當然，它們都有不同的美元價值。但它表明了多樣性。所以真的很難選一個。

Clearly, we put a strategic focus on mobile, EV, and AI data centers. So I think those are the three that are going to be the biggest drivers. But

顯然，我們的戰略重點是行動、電動車和人工智慧資料中心。所以我認為這三個將成為最大的驅動力。但

you've got to give a lot of credit to that solar microinverter, which is going to be material as the fourth driver for next year. So hard to pick one to be far above the other.

你必須對太陽能微型逆變器給予高度評價，它將成為明年第四大驅動力。很難選擇一個遠遠優於另一個的。

Certainly, we expect the new markets to be growing even faster than mobile, which is why we expect greater market diversification next year and commensurate regional diversification, as we continue to grow outside China faster with some of these other regions.

當然，我們預計新興市場的成長速度將比行動市場更快，這就是為什麼我們預計明年市場將更加多樣化，區域也將更加多樣化，因為我們在中國以外的一些地區將繼續實現更快的成長。

So, hopefully, that gives you a little color, recognizing, of course, we're not predicting next year's revenue or how that would break out by market or technology.

所以，希望這能給你一些啟發，當然，我們不是在預測明年的收入，也不是在預測市場或技術如何突破。

Just want to get a general sense. And that's very helpful, Gene.

只是想了解一下大概狀況。這非常有幫助，吉恩。

Jack Egan, Charter Equity Research.

傑克·伊根（Jack Egan），特許權益研究公司。

I was hoping you could update us on the at-the-market offering that was announced at the end of the March quarter. Your cash burn was about the same rate as it was last quarter.

我希望您能向我們通報三月季度末宣布的上市發行情況。您的現金消耗率與上一季大致相同。

So did you actually execute the offering? Or was it just to have it on hand, in case you need it? And then, will it be for anything in particular? Or is it just to give Navitas more runway?

那麼，您實際上執行了這項奉獻嗎？還是只是為了在需要的時候隨身攜帶？那麼，這是為了什麼特別的事情嗎？還是只是為了給 Navitas 更多的發展空間？

Yeah. That's a great question. Correct.

是的。這是一個很好的問題。正確的。

So we have the offering out there. We have not executed upon it. It's there in case we want to use it for strategic reasons, if we need some extra strategic capital.

因此，我們已向外界提供了該產品。我們尚未執行該政策。如果我們出於戰略原因需要一些額外的戰略資本，那麼它就在那裡。

As you noticed, right, our cash usage in Q1 was only $11 million. And we have $75 million on our balance sheet. So that provides us quite a runway going forward, seven-plus quarters, if we maintain this level.

正如您所注意到的，我們第一季的現金使用量僅為 1,100 萬美元。我們的資產負債表上有 7500 萬美元。如果我們保持這個水平，這將為我們未來的七個多季度提供相當大的發展空間。

But as we expect revenue to grow in the second half towards the end of the year, we expect our cash usage to go down. So right now, we are just having the ATM out there for strategic purposes.

但由於我們預計下半年及年底收入將會成長，我們預期現金使用量將會下降。所以現在，我們只是出於戰略目的在那裡設立 ATM。

And then, I'll just get a quick second one, here. With bidirectional GaN switch ramping this year, Gene, could you just give us a general sense of the total revenue potential for next year, for bidirectional GaN?

然後，我將在這裡快速獲得第二個。隨著今年雙向 GaN 開關的蓬勃發展，Gene，您能否大致介紹一下明年雙向 GaN 的總收入潛力？

Yeah. Again, we're not guiding. But, certainly, revenue potential: I would certainly put it north of $10 million. I think that's a conservative view across the different applications and things.

是的。再說一遍，我們不提供指導。但是，當然，收入潛力：我肯定會將其定為 1000 萬美元以上。我認為這是對不同應用和事物的保守觀點。

It's pretty dynamic. Obviously, it's new. We've got over a dozen new opportunities. Many dozens have been sampled.

它非常有活力。顯然，它是新的。我們有十幾個新的機會。已採樣數十個。

So it's definitely growing by the day. I would put it certainly north of double-digit millions for next year.

所以它肯定是日益增長的。我認為明年的收入肯定會超過數千萬。

Joe Moore, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的喬摩爾。

I'm going back to the AI data center. I just wanted to understand the timing. It seems like when you say Blackwell designs from here could use your technology; I would think a lot of the Blackwell current-generation designs are done already.

我要回人工智慧資料中心。我只是想了解時間。當您說 Blackwell 設計可以使用您的技術時，似乎如此；我認為 Blackwell 當前世代的許多設計已經完成。

Just give us a sense for, like, how that can layer in and how much of this is more of a Rubin play.

只是讓我們了解一下，例如，這是如何分層的，以及這其中有多少是魯賓的戲。

Yeah. Definitely, Joe.

是的。當然，喬。

We're seeing a lot of different configurations, a lot of ongoing new Blackwell designs. Obviously, people have not moved on to Blackwell Ultra to Rubin sometime next year.

我們看到了很多不同的配置，很多正在進行的新型 Blackwell 設計。顯然，人們明年某個時候還沒有從 Blackwell Ultra 轉向 Rubin。

So we still see a lot of opportunity to intersect into Blackwell. Case in point: we had 40 wins last year. It's now up to 75, including things that are already starting to ramp minimally, here, in the first half; including that 40 wins from last year.

因此，我們仍然看到很多與布萊克威爾相交的機會。舉個例子：去年我們贏了 40 場。現在已達到 75 個，其中包括上半年已開始略有增加的項目；包括去年的 40 場勝利。

And then, we see a lot of different configurations. It's still pretty dynamic.

然後，我們看到很多不同的配置。它仍然非常有活力。

How many Blackwells are you going to put in the rack? How much do you want to upgrade that rack from 50 kilowatts to 100 or 100 or 150? And how much do you want to move away from traditional power supply designs that use silicon that might be 3, 4, 5 kilowatts to where you're pushing to 8.5 or, now, 12 kilowatts, which are inevitably going to use GaN and silicon carbide?

您打算在架上放多少台 Blackwell 筆？您想將該機架從 50 千瓦升級到 100 千瓦或 150 千瓦嗎？您希望在多大程度上擺脫使用矽的傳統電源設計（功率為 3、4、5 千瓦）轉向 8.5 千瓦或現在的 12 千瓦（這不可避免地會使用 GaN 和碳化矽）？

So I think it's quite dynamic. We still see a lot of opportunities for intersection with Blackwell. I think it will grow from there to Ultra. And then, I'm sure we'll see even better opportunities with Rubin.

所以我認為它非常有活力。我們仍然看到很多與布萊克威爾交會的機會。我認為它會從那裡發展到超級。然後，我相信我們會看到魯賓為我們帶來更好的機會。

And then, just going back to the balance sheet question you were just asked. In terms of -- there's a scenario where revenue picks up quite a bit; and you're fine, if we remain in a tariff malaise, things like that. Just, can you talk about contingency plans and the ability to improve the cash burn, under different revenue scenarios?

然後，回到剛才問到的資產負債表問題。就收入大幅增加的情況而言；如果我們繼續處於關稅困境等類似情況，那就沒事了。只是，您能談談在不同收入情境下的應急計劃和改善現金消耗的能力嗎？

Yeah. Right now, we're keeping our cash pretty tight on the working capital elements, there. Because of that and because of the reduction in OpEx, we're able to keep that cash, really, much smaller, going forward. And we expect that to happen in a slower growth element, as well as an accelerated growth in Q4.

是的。目前，我們在營運資金方面保持著相當緊張的現金。由於這一點以及營運支出的減少，我們能夠在未來保持較少的現金。我們預計這種情況將在成長放緩的因素中發生，並在第四季度加速成長。

So we really don't see any concerns there today, given our cash levels and our ability to keep our working capital in check.

因此，考慮到我們的現金水準和控制營運資金的能力，我們今天確實沒有看到任何擔憂。

Ross Seymore, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的羅斯·西摩。

Just wanted to talk about the inventory burn in the general market. We've heard some green shoots from some of the industrial end markets.

只是想談談一般市場的庫存消耗。我們聽到了一些來自一些工業終端市場的復甦跡象。

Just, Gene, what's your view on the level of inventory in the channel for you? Are you seeing that starting to normalize so you could get growth more of the cyclical side of the equation than the company-specific design wins?

吉恩，您對通路中的庫存水準有何看法？您是否看到這種情況開始正常化，以便您可以獲得更多週期性成長，而不是公司特定設計的勝利？

Yeah. Definitely, Ross. Certainly, it was more broadly spread last year. And this is mainly a silicon carbide phenomenon.

是的。當然，羅斯。當然，去年這種現象傳播得更為廣泛。這主要是碳化矽現象。

The three markets slowed down simultaneously, with a lot of capacity coming on. And it happened relatively quickly, creating a decent amount of widespread silicon carbide inventory in the channels throughout the globe.

三大市場同時放緩，大量運力湧入。而這個過程發生得相對較快，在全球各地的通路中形成了相當數量的碳化矽庫存。

And, now, we've talked about really specific pockets of silicon carbide inventory. It's definitely declined.

現在，我們已經討論了碳化矽庫存的具體部分。肯定是被拒絕了。

We're seeing good sell-through and healthy channel inventory in many parts of the world. But we're still not there yet. We're not in a healthy place.

我們看到世界許多地方的銷售情況良好，通路庫存充足。但我們還沒有到達那裡。我們目前處於一個不健康的環境。

So we think it's a quarter or two away, where I think this remaining overhang is behind us and just adds to our bullishness for resuming growth not only on silicon carbide but, of course, continuing growth on GaN, later in the year.

因此，我們認為還需要一兩個季度的時間，我認為剩餘的懸而未決的問題已經過去，這不僅增強了我們對碳化矽恢復增長的信心，而且當然也增強了我們對今年晚些時候 GaN 繼續增長的信心。

Quinn Bolton, Needham.

奎因·博爾頓，尼德姆。

This is Nick Doyle, on for Quinn. Just wanted to know how your customers are looking at the smartphone market, in terms of unit growth in 2025? How does that compare to your own mobile outlook? And, really, are you seeing any signs of pull-in or push-out, related to tariffs?

我是尼克·道爾，代替奎因。我只是想知道您的客戶如何看待 2025 年智慧型手機市場的銷售成長？這與您自己的移動前景相比如何？那麼，您真的看到與關稅相關的任何拉進或排擠的跡象嗎？

Yeah. Thanks, Nick. Thanks for bringing it up.

是的。謝謝，尼克。謝謝你提出這個問題。

We obviously didn't put a spotlight on mobile. It continues to be an important, stable, and growing part of our business. Last year, we estimated the adoption rate around 10%, globally.

我們顯然沒有把重點放在行動裝置上。它仍然是我們業務中重要、穩定且不斷成長的一部分。去年，我們估計全球採用率約為 10%。

Of particular note, Xiaomi and OPPO jumped up quite a bit. I think they doubled their GaN adoption to around 30% of all of their phones being with GaN, as they're pushing the power levels to 65 watts and higher faster than the rest of the regions and suppliers.

尤其值得注意的是，小米和OPPO漲幅較大。我認為他們將 GaN 的採用率提高了一倍，所有手機中約有 30% 採用 GaN，因為他們比其他地區和供應商更快地將功率水平推高至 65 瓦及更高。

We think that the same trend continues to suppliers around the world. We don't see huge jump-ups this year, where we would have reflected that in our outlook.

我們認為，同樣的趨勢仍將持續存在於世界各地的供應商。我們認為今年不會大幅成長，而這一點我們本應在展望中反映出來。

But mobile is pretty dynamic. So I think the end market -- to your question, the end market is not growing a, ton. And it doesn't need to, which -- more than smartphones growing 2% or 5%, we want to know when are they going to double their GaN line-up to go from 10% share to 20% or 20% to 30%.

但行動裝置卻非常活躍。所以我認為終端市場——對於你的問題，終端市場並沒有大幅成長。而且它不需要——除了智慧型手機成長 2% 或 5% 之外，我們想知道他們什麼時候會將其 GaN 產品線翻一番，從 10% 的份額增加到 20%，或從 20% 增加到 30%。

And this is inevitably going to happen, at least for all chargers. We believe 30 watts and higher, especially where we're in a very strong leadership position at 65 watts and higher.

這是不可避免的，至少對於所有充電器來說都是如此。我們相信 30 瓦及更高，特別是在 65 瓦及更高方面我們處於非常強大的領導地位。

So it's dynamic. I think the trends are strong. If we can confirm big jump-ups later in the year, that would only add to our bullish outlook for resuming more solid growth later in the year.

所以它是動態的。我認為趨勢很強勁。如果我們能夠確認今年稍後會大幅成長，那麼這只會增強我們對今年稍後恢復更穩健成長的樂觀預期。

As a follow-up, you talked about a channel slowdown in EV, industrial, and ESS. Is that more demand-related? Or we're still seeing pockets of inventory like you talked about earlier?

作為後續問題，您談到了電動車、工業和儲能係統的通路放緩。這是否與需求更相關？或者我們仍然看到您之前談到的庫存？

Yeah. Nick, I think it was a combination of both. And the typical semiconductor stuff.

是的。尼克，我認為是兩者的結合。以及典型的半導體材料。

We're in a classic semiconductor downturn. Silicon carbide, like a lot of things, was growing like crazy. They're in short supply.

我們正處於典型的半導體衰退期。碳化矽和許多物質一樣，正在瘋狂生長。他們的供應量不足。

Once all of a sudden, the capacity kicks up, the demand slows down. It's a double whammy and it's hard for the entire industry to adjust quickly.

一旦產能突然增加，需求就會放緩。這是一個雙重打擊，整個行業很難快速調整。

And you get these inventory overhangs or channel inventory excesses. And then, the whole industry has got to work on working through those.

你就會遇到庫存過剩或通路庫存過剩的情況。然後，整個產業必須共同努力解決這些問題。

I think we're near the end. As I said earlier, a quarter or two to go. And, hopefully, that's completely behind us.

我想我們已經接近尾聲了。正如我之前所說，還有一兩個季度的時間。希望這一切已經完全過去了。

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes the question-and-answer session.

女士們、先生們，問答環節到此結束。

Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.

感謝大家的加入。您現在可以斷開連線。