納微半導體 (NVTS) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. My name is Kat, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Navitas Semiconductor second-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

感謝您的支持。我的名字是 Kat，今天我將擔任您的會議主持人。現在，我歡迎大家參加 Navitas Semiconductor 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指令）

Thank you. I would now like to turn the call over to Stephen Oliver, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

謝謝。現在，我想將電話轉給投資者關係副總裁 Stephen Oliver。請繼續。

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Stephen Oliver, Vice President of Investor Relations. Thank you for joining Navitas Semiconductor's Second Quarter 2024 Results Conference Call. I'm joined today by Gene Sheridan, our Chairman, President, CEO and Co-Founder; and Janet Chou, EVP CFO, and Treasurer. A replay of this webcast will be available on our website approximately one hour following this conference cal.

大家下午好。我是投資者關係副總裁史蒂芬‧奧利佛。感謝您參加 Navitas Semiconductor 2024 年第二季業績電話會議。今天與我一起出席活動的還有我們的董事長、總裁、執行長兼共同創辦人 Gene Sheridan；以及執行副總裁、財務長兼財務主管 Janet Chou。本次網路廣播的重播將在本次會議結束後約一小時在我們的網站上提供。

And the recorded webcast will be available for approximately 30 days following the call. Additional information related to our business is also posted on the Investor Relations section of our website. Our earnings release includes non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures with the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included in our second quarter earnings release and also posted on our website in the Investor Relations section. In this conference call, we will make forward-looking statements about future events or about the future financial performance of Navitas, including acquisitions.

錄製的網路直播將在通話結束後約 30 天內提供。與我們的業務相關的其他資訊也發佈在我們網站的投資者關係部分。我們的收益報告包括非公認會計準則財務指標。這些非 GAAP 財務指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的對帳包含在我們的第二季財報中，並且也會發佈在我們網站的「投資者關係」部分。在本次電話會議中，我們將對未來事件或 Navitas 未來財務表現（包括收購）做出前瞻性陳述。

You can identify these statements by words like we expect or we believe or similar terms. We wish to caution you that such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual events or results to differ materially from expectations expressed in our forward-looking statements. Important factors that can affect Navitas business, including factors that could cause actual results to differ from our forward-looking statements are described in our earnings release. Please also refer to the Risk Factors section in our most recent 10-K and 10-Qs. Our estimates or other forward-looking statements may change and Navitas assumes no obligation to update forward-looking statements to reflect actual results, changed assumptions, or other events, that may occur except as required by law.

您可以透過「我們期望」或「我們相信」或類似的術語來識別這些陳述。我們希望提醒您，此類前瞻性陳述受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際事件或結果與我們的前瞻性陳述中表達的預期有重大差異。我們的收益報告中描述了可能影響 Navitas 業務的重要因素，包括可能導致實際結果與我們的前瞻性陳述不同的因素。另請參閱我們最新的 10-K 和 10-Q 中的風險因素部分。我們的估計或其他前瞻性陳述可能會發生變化，Navitas 不承擔更新前瞻性聲明以反映實際結果、變化的假設或其他可能發生的事件的義務，除非法律要求。

And now over to Gene Sheridan, CEO.

現在請執行長 Gene Sheridan 發言。

Thanks, Steve, and thanks to all of you for joining us today. I am pleased to announce Q2 revenue of $20.5 million at the top end of our guidance which completes the first half of 2024 with nearly 40% revenue increase compared to the prior year, despite a slowdown in most semiconductor end markets. Gallium nitride and silicon carbide continue to take share from legacy silicon chips. Our GaNSafe ICs offer the highest performance, most reliable, and most protected GaN power device in our industry and continue to drive new business at an extraordinary pace. GaNSafe is now being qualified or designed into over 100 customer projects, spending four different end markets and in all major regions around the world.

謝謝，史蒂夫，也謝謝大家今天的參與。我很高興地宣布，第二季的收入達到 2,050 萬美元，達到我們預期的最高水準，儘管大多數半導體終端市場放緩，但 2024 年上半年的收入仍比上一年增長了近 40%。氮化鎵和碳化矽繼續搶佔傳統矽晶片的份額。我們的 GaNSafe IC 提供業界性能最高、最可靠、保護程度最高的 GaN 功率元件，並繼續以非凡的速度推動新業務。GaNSafe 目前已被認證或設計用於 100 多個客戶項目，涵蓋四個不同的終端市場和全球所有主要地區。

Our latest generation 3 fast silicon carbide technology has improved performance by an additional 20% compared to our prior generation, which already demonstrated the industry's leading efficiency and thermal performance, and now also has over 100 customer projects in our pipeline. The combination of GaNSafe and Gen-3 Fast silicon carbide for AI data centers and EV onboard chargers are creating next-gen power systems that exceed even our own expectations and set new industry standards, in terms of power density, energy efficiency, and system costs. Let me give further specifics in each of our target markets. The AI data center market continues to evolve at a rapid and exciting pace. Traditional servers required a total power of up to 30 kilowatts per rack.

我們最新的第三代快速碳化矽技術與上一代相比，效能又提高了 20%，已經展現出業界領先的效率和熱性能，目前我們已有 100 多個客戶專案正在籌備中。用於人工智慧資料中心和電動汽車車載充電器的 GaNSafe 與第三代快速碳化矽的結合，正在創造下一代電源系統，其在功率密度、能源效率和系統成本方面甚至超出了我們自己的預期，並設立了新的行業標準。讓我進一步具體說明我們每個目標市場的情況。人工智慧資料中心市場持續以快速且令人興奮的速度發展。傳統伺服器每個機架所需的總功率高達 30 千瓦。

With NVIDIA's Grace Hopper GPUs, those power levels are being pushed to 60 or even 120 kilowatts. With Blackwell, Ultra and Rubin, we are targeting 240 and even 480 kilowatts in the next two years. Our system design center focused on data centers has stepped up to the challenge with AC to DC server power supply platforms expanding rapidly from 2.7 to 3.2 to 4.5 kilowatts, and targeting 8 to 10 kilowatts by the end of the year. The recently announced 4.5 kilowatt platform combines our newest Gen-3 Fast silicon carbide in the front end power factor correction or PFC section with the industry leading GaNSafe technology in the back end LLC portion to set new industry benchmarks with energy efficiencies of 97% and power densities of nearly 140 watts per cubic inch. As a result, our data center pipeline has grown rapidly faster than any other segment in the last three months and has doubled since our Investor Day in December.

借助 NVIDIA 的 Grace Hopper GPU，這些功率等級被提升到 60 甚至 120 千瓦。與 Blackwell、Ultra 和 Rubin 合作，我們的目標是在未來兩年內達到 240 千瓦甚至 480 千瓦的發電量。我們專注於資料中心的系統設計中心已經迎接挑戰，交流到直流伺服器電源平台從 2.7 千瓦迅速擴展到 3.2 千瓦到 4.5 千瓦，併計劃在年底前達到 8 到 10 千瓦。最近發布的 4.5 千瓦平台將我們最新的第三代快速碳化矽（前端功率因數校正或 PFC 部分）與業界領先的 GaNSafe 技術（後端 LLC 部分）相結合，以 97% 的能源效率和每立方英寸近 140 瓦的功率密度樹立了新的行業標竿。因此，我們資料中心管道在過去三個月中成長速度快於其他任何部門，自 12 月投資者日以來增加了一倍。

Now, with over 60 customer projects in development, we're pleased to announce another seven data center design wins in Q2. In addition, I'm excited to announce a major technology innovation from our system design center. Traditional PFC circuits operate at low frequency with moderate efficiencies. Our team has unlocked an additional 30% energy savings, four data center PFC circuits, by innovating a novel high frequency soft switching control method, which translates to over 99% peak efficiency for that PFC section with higher power densities and attractive costs. This technology is patent pending and is available immediately for our customers to implement for their Blackwell and Blackwell Ultra designs, that will be integrated with our 8 kilowatt and higher designs while we retrofit the 4.5 and 3.2 kilowatt platforms in the coming months.

現在，我們有超過 60 個客戶專案正在開發中，我們很高興地宣佈在第二季又有 7 個資料中心設計獲勝。此外，我很高興地宣布我們的系統設計中心取得了一項重大技術創新。傳統的 PFC 電路以低頻運行，效率中等。我們的團隊透過創新一種新型高頻軟開關控制方法，在四個資料中心 PFC 電路中實現了額外 30% 的節能效果，這意味著該 PFC 部分的峰值效率超過 99%，並且具有更高的功率密度和誘人的成本。此項技術正在申請專利，可立即供我們的客戶應用於他們的 Blackwell 和 Blackwell Ultra 設計中，並將與我們 8 千瓦及更高的設計集成，同時我們將在未來幾個月內改造 4.5 和 3.2 千瓦平台。

In electric vehicles, we see strong growth in our customer pipeline, which now includes over 200 customer projects and is the largest segment of our pipeline. Our latest 22-kilowatt onboard charger platform, which enables 3 times faster charging with 2x higher power density, 30% energy savings, and 40% lighter compared to comparable solutions on the market. We're seeing strong interest, this platform has contributed to a total of 15 new customer design wins in Q2, which includes three major new silicon carbide wins that will start production next year, while we're on track for our first GaN EV revenues to start by the end of 2025. The customer pipeline in both appliance and industrial segments continues to be strong and growing well beyond the $380 million we stated in December, with strong ramp expected in 2025 across diverse customers and regions, including seven of the top 10 appliance leaders, with a total of 25 new design wins in Q2 expected to ramp production next year or 2026. These customer projects span hair care applications, washers, dryers, refrigerators, heat pumps, industrial HVAC, robotics, and automation applications.

在電動車領域，我們的客戶通路強勁成長，目前包括 200 多個客戶項目，是我們通路中最大的部分。我們最新的 22 千瓦車用充電器平台，與市場上的同類解決方案相比，充電速度提高 3 倍，功率密度提高 2 倍，節能 30%，重量減輕 40%。我們看到了濃厚的興趣，該平台在第二季度共促成了 15 個新客戶設計勝利，其中包括三個主要的新碳化矽勝利，這些勝利將於明年開始生產，而我們預計在 2025 年底開始實現首個 GaN EV 收入。家電和工業領域的客戶管道繼續保持強勁，並且遠超我們 12 月所說的 3.8 億美元，預計 2025 年不同客戶和地區的客戶數量將大幅增長，其中包括十大家電領導者中的七家，第二季度將共贏得 25 項新設計，預計將在明年或 2026 年提高產量。這些客戶專案涵蓋護髮應用、洗衣機、烘乾機、冰箱、熱泵、工業暖通空調、機器人和自動化應用。

While the solar industry experienced a significant slowdown due to higher interest rates over the last 18 months, as displacement technologies, we are working on over 100 customer projects with GaN for residential microinverters and silicon carbide for higher power, higher voltage string inverters, in addition to their related energy storage systems. We continue strong engagements with the majority of the top 10 solar players and are pleased to announce another six customer design wins in Q2. We are also progressing well for a major U.S. GaN based microinverter ramp in the first half of next year. GaN revenue growth continues in mobile markets as all major OEMs across smartphones, tablets and notebooks continue to increase the percentage of GaN adoption in their fast charger portfolios over legacy silicon power chips.

雖然過去 18 個月由於利率上調，太陽能行業經歷了大幅放緩，但作為替代技術，我們正在進行 100 多個客戶項目，其中 GaN 用於家用微型逆變器，碳化矽用於更高功率、更高電壓的串式逆變器，以及相關的儲能係統。我們繼續與十大太陽能企業中的大多數保持密切合作，並很高興地宣佈在第二季度又有六個客戶設計中標。我們在明年上半年美國基於 GaN 的微型逆變器大規模推廣方面也取得了良好的進展。隨著所有主要的智慧型手機、平板電腦和筆記型電腦 OEM 廠商在其快速充電器產品組合中繼續增加 GaN 的採用比例（而非傳統的矽功率晶片），GaN 的收入在行動市場持續成長。

As discussed in the last call, GaN adoption in customers such as Xiaomi and Oppo is expected to be 30% this year. Following our fast charger design wins for Samsung's Galaxy S23 and S24 phones, we are pleased to announce that the new Galaxy Z Flip6, Z Fold6, and all A series phones, as revealed during July's Galaxy Unpacked event, now use Navitas GaNFast technology to deliver fast, light, truly portable, fast charging experiences for the consumer. Growth in the laptop, PC market resumed in Q1, with GaNFast adopted again by Lenovo for 105- and 170-watt fast chargers and again by Dell, this time for 100 and 130 watts, achieving up to 50% size reduction. Overall, Q2 saw another 16 charger launches, bringing the total to over 470 production designs, and Navitas remains number one in mobile fast charging. Our new GaNSlim portfolio with integration, ease-of-use and low-cost manufacturing methods continues to grow the customer pipeline, now with over 50 customer projects.

正如上次電話會議中所討論的那樣，小米和 Oppo 等客戶今年對 GaN 的採用率預計將達到 30%。繼我們的快速充電器設計贏得三星 Galaxy S23 和 S24 手機的青睞後，我們很高興地宣布，在 7 月的 Galaxy Unpacked 活動期間發布的全新 Galaxy Z Flip6、Z Fold6 和所有 A 系列手機現已採用 Navitas GaNFast 技術，為消費者提供快速、輕巧、真正便攜的快速充電體驗。筆記型電腦、個人電腦市場在第一季恢復成長，聯想再次採用 GaNFast 用於 105 瓦和 170 瓦快速充電器，戴爾再次採用 GaNFast 用於 100 瓦和 130 瓦，尺寸縮小高達 50%。總體而言，第二季又有 16 款充電器上市，總數超過 470 種生產設計，Navitas 仍然在行動快速充電領域保持第一。我們全新的 GaNSlim 產品組合具有整合性、易用性和低成本製造方法，不斷擴大客戶通路，目前已擁有超過 50 個客戶專案。

GaNSlim increases our GaN served market by enabling lower system costs compared to silicon design, for many applications, targeting applications under 500 watts across mobile, consumer and home appliance. Overall, I'm pleased with our Q2 results at the high end of our guidance, combined with the growth of our pipeline, major new design wins and significant new technology launches. Electrification and energy savings have never been more important and Navitas is well-positioned as the only pure play next-gen power semi company with leading-edge gallium nitride and sodium carbide technology. With that, let me turn it over to our CFO, Janet Chao to discuss the financials.

與矽設計相比，GaNSlim 透過降低系統成本擴大了我們的 GaN 服務市場，適用於許多應用，目標是行動、消費和家用電器中 500 瓦以下的應用。總體而言，我對我們的第二季度業績感到滿意，該業績達到了預期的高位，同時我們的產品線也在不斷增長，重大新設計的勝利以及重大新技術的發布。電氣化和節能從未如此重要，而 Navitas 作為唯一一家擁有領先氮化鎵和碳化鈉技術的純粹下一代功率半導體公司，佔據有利地位。說完這些，讓我將話題轉交給我們的財務長 Janet Chao 來討論財務狀況。

Thank you, Gene. In my comments today, I will first take you through our second quarter financial results and then I'll walk you through our outlook for the third quarter. Revenue in the second quarter of 2024 grew 13% year-over-year to $20.5 million. While we are experiencing similar macroeconomic factors as others in certain of our end markets, our mobile business was strong in the second quarter, demonstrating the benefits of our smaller, faster, more energy-efficient technology, as we continue to gain significant traction in mobile and consumer charging applications. Before addressing expenses, I'd like to refer you to the GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliations in our press release earlier today.

謝謝你，吉恩。在今天的評論中，我將首先向您介紹我們第二季的財務業績，然後再向您介紹我們對第三季的展望。2024 年第二季營收年增 13% 至 2,050 萬美元。雖然我們在某些​​終端市場中經歷著與其他公司類似的宏觀經濟因素，但我們的行動業務在第二季度表現強勁，展示了我們更小、更快、更節能的技術的優勢，因為我們在行動和消費者充電應用方面繼續獲得顯著的吸引力。在討論費用之前，我想先請大家參閱一下我們今天早些時候發布的新聞稿中的 GAAP 與非 GAAP 的對帳。

In the rest of my commentary, I will refer to non-GAAP expense measures. Gross margin in the second quarter was 40.3% compared to 41.5%, the second quarter of 2023, due to mobile market product mix, as we continue to see strength in that part of the business. Gross margin was down sequentially from 41.1%. Total operating expenses for the second quarter were relatively flat sequentially at $21.5 million, comprised of SG&A expenses of $9 million and R&D expenses of $12.5 million. This is a good demonstration of our focus on operating efficiency.

在我的其餘評論中，我將參考非公認會計準則費用指標。第二季的毛利率為 40.3%，而 2023 年第二季為 41.5%，原因是行動市場的產品組合，因為我們繼續看到該部分業務的實力。毛利率較上一季的41.1%下降。第二季的總營運費用與上一季基本持平，為 2,150 萬美元，其中包括 900 萬美元的銷售、一般及行政費用和 1,250 萬美元的研發費用。這很好地體現了我們注重營運效率。

Adding all this together, the second quarter 2024 loss from operations was $13.3 million. Our weighted average share count for the second quarter was 183 million shares. Turning to the balance sheet. It remains very strong with high levels of liquidity. Cash and cash equivalents at quarter end were $112 million and we continue to carry no debt.

綜合上述因素，2024 年第二季的營業虧損為 1,330 萬美元。我們第二季的加權平均股數為 1.83 億股。轉向資產負債表。其仍保持強勁，流動性水準較高。季度末的現金和現金等價物為 1.12 億美元，我們繼續沒有任何債務。

While accounts receivable was relatively flat at $22.7 million compared to $22.2 million. In the prior quarter, we made good progress on reducing inventory to $25.2 million from $33.2 million in the prior quarter. Our goal is to continue to improve our working capital. Moving on to guidance for the third quarter, we currently expect revenues of $22 million plus or minus $500,000. At the midpoint, this represents a sequential growth of more than 7%.

而應收帳款則相對持平，為 2,270 萬美元，而去年同期為 2,220 萬美元。在上一季度，我們在將庫存從上一季的 3,320 萬美元減少至 2,520 萬美元方面取得了良好進展。我們的目標是繼續提高我們的營運資本。談到第三季的預期，我們目前預計營收為 2,200 萬美元，上下浮動 50 萬美元。從中位數來看，這代表著連續成長 7% 以上。

Gross margin for the third quarter is expected to be approximately 40% plus or minus 50 basis points. As our mix continues to lean more towards the mobile market in the near-term. We expect margin improvements will align with demand recovery in higher margin markets. In total, our non-GAAP operating expenses in the third quarter are expected to be approximately $21.5 million and this excludes stock-based compensation and amortization of intangible assets. We're keeping our expenses as flat as possible, as we improve our efficiency and optimize our cost structure, while supporting our growth initiatives.

預計第三季的毛利率約為40%（上下浮動50個基點）。由於我們的產品組合短期內將繼續更傾向於行動市場。我們預期利潤率的提高將與高利潤市場的需求復甦保持一致。總體而言，我們第三季的非 GAAP 營業費用預計約為 2,150 萬美元，其中不包括股票薪酬和無形資產攤銷。我們正盡可能保持支出平穩，同時提高效率並優化成本結構，支持我們的成長計畫。

For the third quarter of 2024, we expect our weighted average share count to be approximately 185 million shares. In closing, we're pleased with our second quarter performance, which includes good progress in expense management and improvements in working capital. This positions us well to scale the business towards long-term growth and profitability. Operator, let's begin the Q&A session.

對於 2024 年第三季度，我們預計加權平均股數約為 1.85 億股。最後，我們對第二季的業績感到滿意，包括費用管理取得了良好進展以及營運資金有所改善。這使我們能夠很好地擴大業務規模，實現長期成長和獲利。接線員，我們開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Ross Seymore, Deutsche Bank.

（操作員指令）德意志銀行羅斯·西摩。

Gene, I wanted to get an update on what you're seeing as far as the end market trends. And really what I'm going for is everybody knows that some of the rebound has been a little slower in a lot of end markets, but how are you seeing the macro side and more importantly, the company-specific ramps? Any pushouts, pull-ins in those ramps, any color on your visibility would be great?

吉恩，我想了解你所看到的終端市場趨勢。我真正想說的是，大家都知道，很多終端市場的反彈速度已經稍微慢了一些，但您如何看待宏觀層面，更重要的是，特定公司的成長？在這些坡道上有任何推出或拉入的情況嗎？

You bet. Ross. Thanks for the question. I think the good news with the choppy market today is that we're not seeing pushouts and delays. That's pretty fundamental to our mid to long-term outlook.

當然。羅斯。謝謝你的提問。我認為，今天波動的市場中的好消息是，我們沒有看到延遲和延遲的情況。這對我們的中長期前景來說非常重要。

In fact, the pipeline, as I highlighted in the prepared remarks, continues to grow, across all segments. We see growth with EV, especially around onboard chargers. That's a focus area for us, not only with silicon carbide in the near-term, but GaN in the medium-term, late '25 and into '26. We're really pleased with appliance and industrial, even though that market's a little softer on volume, 25 new design wins. I think it's an all-time high, and that's pretty broad-based as I highlighted.

事實上，正如我在準備好的發言中所強調的那樣，各個領域的管道都在持續成長。我們看到了電動車的成長，尤其是車載充電器。這是我們關注的領域，近期不僅關注碳化矽，而且關注中期（2025年末到2026年）的GaN。我們對家電和工業產品非常滿意，儘管該市場的銷量稍差一些，但仍有 25 個新設計獲勝。我認為這是歷史最高水平，而且正如我所強調的那樣，其範圍非常廣泛。

Hair care dryers, washing machines, refrigerators, heat pumps is a big one. These -- that market takes a little longer, as we've been talking about, but now we're getting close to those ramps. Quite a few of them in '25, even more in '26. Even solar, which has probably hit the hardest in the last 18 months, as I mentioned, still on track for that GaN launch. Next year, we see GaN moving into a beachhead position on microinverters, as we talked about for many quarters.

護髮吹風機、洗衣機、冰箱、熱泵是其中的一大類。正如我們一直在談論的，這些市場需要更長的時間，但現在我們已經接近這些成長點。1925 年有相當多的人，1926 年就更多了。正如我所提到的那樣，即使在過去 18 個月中遭受打擊最嚴重的太陽能，仍然有望推出 GaN。正如我們許多季度所討論的那樣，明年，我們將看到 GaN 在微型逆變器上佔據灘頭陣地。

But also silicon carbide continues to win more on the commercial string inverter side. And of course, I got to highlight AI data centers and enterprise in general. Coming from a 0 base, it's still one of the smaller segments for us, but it doubled in terms of the number of customer projects. 30 in Q1, 60 now with three design wins we highlighted in Q1, now 7. So we like those trends.

但碳化矽在商用串聯逆變器方面繼續贏得更多青睞。當然，我要重點介紹人工智慧資料中心和企業。從 0 開始，這對我們來說仍然是較小的細分市場之一，但客戶專案數量卻翻了一番。第一季有 30 個設計獲勝，現在有 60 個，其中第一季我們重點介紹了 3 個設計獲勝，現在有 7 個。所以我們喜歡這些趨勢。

It's not too meaningful this year, but really starts to be appreciable in the overall revenue next year and continues to grow strongly with those sort of power increases that I talked about in my remarks. So all that stuff's pretty encouraging. I don't highlight mobile consumer because that is our position of strength, that's where we're seeing upsides in the near-term. But that's certainly not going to go away as well, it will just become a smaller percentage of the pipeline over time.

今年意義不大，但明年的整體收入確實會開始變得可觀，而且會隨著我在演講中提到的那種權力提升而繼續強勁增長。所有這些事情都非常令人鼓舞。我並不強調行動消費者，因為這是我們的優勢領域，也是我們近期看到的優勢領域。但它當然不會消失，只是隨著時間的推移，它在管道中所佔的比例會越來越小。

That's very helpful. I guess just my one follow-up, either for you or Janet. On the gross margin side, when those company-specific design wins that you just went through, Gene start to ramp over time. How do we think about the gross margin puts or takes? I think most of them are accretive, but when do you think those are going to start being built-in in a more meaningful way?

這非常有幫助。我想這只是我的一個後續問題，無論是對你還是對珍妮特。在毛利率方面，當您剛完成的那些公司特定設計獲勝時，Gene 會隨著時間的推移而開始增加。我們如何看待毛利率的損失或增加？我認為其中大多數都是累積性的，但您認為什麼時候它們才能以更有意義的方式開始融入其中？

And what's the kind of aspirational gross margin targets you think over the next year or two that the company could attain?

您認為未來一兩年公司能夠達成什麼樣的毛利率目標？

Ross, thank you for your question. Let me first take that. And Gene can add more color. Our gross margin is heavily dependent on mix. We're seeing very strong momentum going on in mobile.

羅斯，謝謝你的提問。讓我先來看一下這個。而且 Gene 可以加入更多顏色。我們的毛利率很大程度上取決於產品組合。我們看到行動領域正在呈現非常強勁的發展勢頭。

Last year, mobile is less than half of the revenue. Now this year, year-to-date, mobile is more than half. So that's kind of margin diluted. But at the same time, we're doing everything we can to drive margin improvement. We've been doing a lot of work with our suppliers to negotiate down, price.

去年，行動業務收入佔比不到一半。今年截至目前，行動裝置已佔到一半以上。這在某種程度上稀釋了利潤率。但與此同時，我們正在竭盡全力提高利潤率。我們一直在與供應商進行大量工作以降低價格。

As those demands start to ramp up in higher margin markets like solar, EV, or industrial, we will see margin improvement. We're still very committed to the long-term gross margin target of 50% and above.

隨著太陽能、電動車或工業等利潤率較高的市場的需求開始增加，我們將看到利潤率的提高。我們仍致力於實現50%及以上的長期毛利率目標。

Yes. And if I add to that, Ross, just to kind of relate it back to your earlier question, the market mix, and the pipeline, we're winning these customers, we're pricing them. We know what those price points are. We know what's coming to in '25 and '26. So that adds to our confidence as Janet said that it's a market mix-based approach.

是的。羅斯，如果我補充一點，只是為了將其與你之前的問題聯繫起來，市場組合和管道，我們正在贏得這些客戶，我們正在為他們定價。我們知道這些價格點是多少。我們知道25年和26年會發生什麼事。正如珍妮特所說，這是一種基於市場組合的方法，這增強了我們的信心。

While we're -- I think, practical about realistic about mobile consumer being below that average in the short-term and even in the long-term, for obvious reasons, the other markets, we continue to feel confident and good about being at that long-term margin model, if not higher, driving the overall corporate average where it needs to be. So I think that puts us in a good place, and that's why we we're comfortable reiterating those margin targets.

雖然我認為，出於顯而易見的原因，我們在短期甚至長期內移動消費者的利潤率都將低於平均水平，但我們對其他市場仍然充滿信心，並且對長期利潤率模型感到滿意，甚至更高，從而推動整體企業平均水平達到應有的水平。所以我認為這使我們處於有利地位，這也是我們願意重申這些利潤目標的原因。

Perfect. Thank you.

完美的。謝謝。

Blayne Curtis, Jefferies.

布萊恩·柯蒂斯（Blayne Curtis），傑富瑞（Jefferies）。

I just want to follow-up on Ross's question. Last, I guess, in the June quarter, it seemed like mobile was growing and everything else was kind of correcting. I just wanted to understand, are the other kind of non-mobile businesses flattening out, or are they still declining as you look to September?

我只是想跟進羅斯的問題。最後，我想，在六月這個季度，似乎行動業務正在成長，而其他業務都在進行調整。我只是想要了解，其他類型的非行動業務是否正在趨於平穩，還是展望九月仍在下滑？

Yes. We don't break it up by quarter by market. But what I can say is, yes, we've seen further upsides on mobile and consumer, which is helpful on the top line, and now we're sequentially growing into Q3 as we guided. At the same time, I would say solar in particular is still a pretty small percentage, quite a bit down from where it was last year. So I think that's the one.

是的。我們不會按季度或按市場進行細分。但我可以說的是，是的，我們看到了行動和消費者業務的進一步上漲，這對營收有幫助，現在我們正按照預期在第三季實現連續成長。同時，我想說，太陽能所佔的比例仍然很小，比去年下降了很多。所以我認為就是這個。

We've probably seen a trade-off between solar as a percentage of revenue versus mobile consumer, skewing that gross margin a bit. But I think things are pretty stable on the others, EV, appliance and industrial, and of course, enterprise is really just getting started. Here's a zero point as we're just ramping those programs. So that's how I'd see sort of the pluses and minuses across the markets and the margin improvements.

我們可能已經看到太陽能佔收入的百分比與行動消費者之間的權衡，這在一定程度上扭曲了毛利率。但我認為其他領域的情況相當穩定，電動車、家電和工業領域當然，企業領域才剛起步。這是零點，因為我們正在逐步推進這些計劃。這就是我對各市場優缺點以及利潤率改善的看法。

Helpful. And I'm just kind of curious as you look long-term, the -- between the kind of four segments outside of mobile data center, the EV, mobility appliances, and solar. Just kind of curious. I mean, you can see the pipeline building. I'm just kind of curious between those 4.

很有幫助。我只是有點好奇，從長期來看，除了行動資料中心、電動車、行動裝置和太陽能之外的四個細分市場。只是有點好奇。我的意思是，你可以看到管道建設。我只是對這四個有點好奇。

Which one do you think will contribute revenue the earliest? And is that mostly next year, or could you see some even into the end of this year?

您認為哪一個會最早貢獻營收？這些變化主要發生在明年嗎？

Yes. We're already shipping silicon carbide into EV and solar. We're already shipping GaN into appliance and shipping SiC into industrial. So we've got a base of business in each of those, but we're going to be layering in new growth. GaN going into solar for the first time next year in ramping, GaN going into EV by the end of '25, ramping in '26.

是的。我們已經將碳化矽運往電動車和太陽能領域。我們已經將 GaN 運送到家用電器，將 SiC 運送到工業領域。因此，我們在每個領域都有業務基礎，但我們將分層拓展新的成長點。GaN 將於明年首次進入太陽能領域，並在 25 年底進入電動車領域，26 年量產。

Both GaN and silicon carbide ramping for the first time in appreciable production volumes second half of this year. So they're all sort of layering in at different times. And those are largely driven out by product availability, but just design time from when we launched the higher power GaN and other new products in the last year.

今年下半年，GaN和碳化矽的產量均首次大幅增加。所以它們都是在不同時間分層的。這些主要是由產品可用性所驅動，而只是從我們去年推出更高功率的 GaN 和其他新產品時的設計時間開始的。

Got you. Thank you.

明白了。謝謝。

Quinn Bolton, Needham.

奎因博爾頓，尼德姆。

I guess I wanted to start, I believe last quarter you guys seemed to feel comfortable with a growth rate in '24 of about 20% for the full year. The September guide looks like it's coming in below consensus. And I'm not sure if you're willing to comment on a growth rate for the year, but just trying to sort of level set where you think 2024 might come out.

我想首先，我相信上個季度你們似乎對 2024 年全年約 20% 的成長率感到滿意。九月份的指南看起來低於普遍預期。我不確定您是否願意對今年的成長率發表評論，但只是想大致確定一下您認為 2024 年的成長率是多少。

Yes. We didn't formally guide, but certainly anticipated a moderated growth rate this year. We still feel good about it. Obviously, it's important that Q3 is now sequentially growing 7% from Q2. We're not formally guiding Q4, but feel good about a growth outlook going from Q3 to Q4, and certainly feel good about growth rates obviously going into next year, albeit not giving a formal guide yet.

是的。我們沒有正式給出指引，但確實預期今年的成長率會有所放緩。我們對此仍感覺良好。顯然，第三季較第二季環比成長 7% 非常重要。我們尚未正式預測第四季度的業績，但對第三季到第四季的成長前景感到樂觀，而且顯然對明年的成長率感到樂觀，儘管目前尚未給出正式預測。

So we'll continue to go by quarter-by-quarter. But I'd say that's kind of the color commentary I would offer up.

因此，我們將繼續按季度進行。但我想說，這是我所提供的一種彩色評論。

Got it. And then you guys have given us really good detail on the customer engagements, customer pipelines. But the near-term, it does feel like some of those projects are either delayed or maybe it's just taking longer to clear inventory before some new projects take off. And so I'm wondering, can you give us any commentary about bookings trends, backlog? I think you've got a couple of questions, but do you feel like you're starting to see the turn in some of these other markets beyond mobile?

知道了。然後你們給我們提供了關於客戶參與和客戶管道的詳細資訊。但從短期來看，確實感覺到其中一些項目要么被推遲，要么只是需要更長的時間來清理庫存，然後一些新項目才能啟動。所以我想知道，您能否給我們提供有關預訂趨勢和積壓訂單的評論？我想你有幾個問題，但你是否覺得除了行動市場之外，你開始看到其他一些市場也出現了轉變？

Just kind of -- besides the customer activity, which maybe at no fault of your own, is subject to getting delayed or pushed out in time, what gives you confidence that the growth accelerates next year?

只是——除了客戶活動（這可能不是您自己的錯）可能會被延遲或推遲之外，什麼讓您有信心明年的成長會加速？

Yes. I think short-term backlog coverage for near-term quarters is solid. That's encouraging. Inventory correction, as we said, pockets of inventory definitely in the channel, but we see those stable to improving. So that's encouraging.

是的。我認為近期幾季的短期積壓訂單覆蓋率是穩固的。這令人鼓舞。庫存調整，正如我們所說，庫存肯定處於渠道中，但我們看到這些庫存穩定並有所改善。這令人鼓舞。

And then not seeing the projects pushout, staying on track. I don't think, we saw any appreciable pushouts or delays or certainly cancellations. So at the end of the day, it comes down to the actual production volumes. Customers can be on schedule, they can launch on time, but are they launching at 20% less volume or 20% higher volume? And those are things that ultimately you don't know until you get closer and the orders are coming in.

然後就看不到專案推出，保持在正軌上。我認為，我們沒有看到任何明顯的延遲、延誤或取消的情況。所以歸根結底，這取決於實際生產量。客戶可以按時完成任務，可以準時推出產品，但他們推出的產品數量是減少了 20％ 還是增加了 20％？而這些事情最終都是你不知道的，直到你接近目標並收到訂單。

But I think some of those other points about inventory backlog coverage are encouraging. So we're cautiously optimistic, but just don't want to get ahead of ourselves in this choppy market.

但我認為有關庫存積壓覆蓋率的其他觀點是令人鼓舞的。因此，我們持謹慎樂觀的態度，但只是不想在這個動盪的市場中操之過急。

Got it. So it sounds like it's maybe more fluctuations in those production volumes that may be the biggest swing factor rather than projects pushing out.

知道了。因此，聽起來，產量的波動可能是最大的影響因素，而不是專案的推出。

Yes, exactly. And obviously that's on running programs as much as it is on new programs. So that's a good summary point.

是的，確實如此。顯然，這對正在運行的程式和新程式都同樣重要。這是一個很好的總結點。

Got it. Thank you, Gene.

知道了。謝謝你，吉恩。

Jack Egan, Charter Equity Research.

傑克·伊根（Jack Egan），特許權益研究公司。

So I had a bit of a high level one on data center. I'm curious as to what the biggest challenges are for the industry to increase the power level of power supply. So you've talked about going from 3.2 kilowatts to 4.5 more recently and then aspirations for 8 to 10 kilowatts eventually. When it comes to the product design, for those server power supplies, what becomes, I guess, the long pole in the tent? Is it the power chips themselves and whether they can developing them so they can handle more power without breaking down?

因此，我對資料中心有一定程度的了解。我很好奇，業界在提高電源功率等級方面面臨的最大挑戰是什麼。所以您談到了最近從 3.2 千瓦增加到 4.5 千瓦，然後最終達到 8 到 10 千瓦的期望。當談到產品設計時，對於那些伺服器電源，我猜，帳篷裡的長桿會變成什麼？是電源晶片本身的問題嗎？

I mean, I'm basically wondering if the chips themselves are the limiting factor or if it's something else. And then I have a follow-up.

我的意思是，我基本上想知道晶片本身是否是限制因素或其他因素。然後我有一個後續問題。

Yes. You bet, Jack. That's a good question for sure. And really it does come down to the switching speed and the efficiency of the power chips. If you can get the gallium nitride or silicon carbide chips to switch faster and more efficiently, the speed actually allows you to shrink the mechanical size of the other passive components, the transformers, inductors and filters, capacitors.

是的。當然，傑克。這確實是個好問題。事實上，這確實取決於開關速度和電源晶片的效率。如果你可以讓氮化鎵或碳化矽晶片更快、更有效率地切換，那麼這個速度實際上可以讓你縮小其他被動元件、變壓器、電感器和濾波器、電容器的機械尺寸。

When they shrink, not only are they coming down in size to pack more power in the same size, you're also shrinking the case size, the mechanicals, the PCBs. And so mechanical shrink is going to come from the speed of gallium nitride and silicon carbide. At the same time, you've got to worry about the heat. You have more heat to pack into a smaller space if you don't improve the efficiency. And that's why efficiency is the other critical one.

當它們縮小時，不僅尺寸縮小以在相同尺寸內容納更多電力，而且外殼尺寸、機械部​​件和 PCB 也縮小了。因此機械收縮將來自氮化鎵和碳化矽的速度。同時，你也得擔心炎熱的問題。如果不提高效率，就需要在更小的空間內容納更多的熱量。這就是為什麼效率是另一個關鍵因素。

So you'll see us constantly talking about pushing frequencies up and pushing efficiencies up. We talked about doing -- now targeting 98% efficiency. That's two points bigger, 25% less power loss, compared to that titanium standard of 96, which is actually really hard to hit for silicon, let alone anybody else in the GaN or silicon carbide space. So speed and efficiency are the key. And that's why I wanted to highlight in my remarks about that PFC circuit.

因此，你會看到我們不斷談論提高頻率和提高效率。我們討論的是──現在的目標是 98% 的效率。與鈦標準 96 相比，這高出兩個點，功率損耗減少了 25%，這對於矽來說實際上很難達到，更不用說 GaN 或碳化矽領域的任何其他產品了。因此速度和效率是關鍵。這就是為什麼我想在我的評論中強調 PFC 電路。

The PFC circuit power factor correction traditionally is running at slow speeds in mediocre efficiency. And that's been holding us all back. Even when you add gallium nitride or silicon carbide, traditionally, you might get one point in efficiency, which is a big deal, but still not as high as we wanted. The fact that our team has invented a new architecture for PFC that pushes another 30% energy savings is a really big deal and does it at higher switching speeds. So we're nailing those two things.

傳統的PFC電路功率因數校正運行速度較慢，效率一般。這一直阻礙著我們所有人的發展。即使添加氮化鎵或碳化矽，傳統上也只能提高一個百分點的效率，雖然很重要，但仍然沒有達到我們想要的那麼高。事實上，我們的團隊發明了一種新的 PFC 架構，可以再節省 30% 的能源，這是一個很大的進步，並且可以在更高的開關速度下實現。所以，我們確實要把這兩件事做好。

And ultimately, that's what it's going to take, speed and efficiency, to deliver a lot more power in the same size rack or tray or individual server power supplies.

最終，這就是需要的速度和效率，以便在相同尺寸的機架或託盤或單一伺服器電源中提供更多的電力。

Got it. That's really helpful. And then you are engaged in about 200 electric vehicle projects or wins. Could you go over maybe kind of the wins or pipeline by silicon carbide versus gallium nitride? And then is it fair to assume that most of those -- pretty much all of them are still in the DC -- DC-DC converter for now?

知道了。這真的很有幫助。然後你參與了大約200個電動車專案或獲得了勝利。您能否介紹一下碳化矽與氮化鎵相比的優點或發展趨勢？那麼，是否可以公平地假設，其中大多數 — — 幾乎所有現在都仍處於 DC — — DC-DC 轉換器中？

Yes, good question. Silicon carbide has been the biggest part of the flow. That's what's most commonly used. If you're an 800-volt battery car, you're pretty much exclusively going to focus on silicon carbide. If you're 400 volts, you start to have an option between the 2.

是的，好問題。碳化矽一直是流量最大的部分。這是最常用的。如果您是一輛 800 伏特電池車，那麼您幾乎只會關注碳化矽。如果電壓為 400 伏，您就可以在兩者之間進行選擇。

Now that Navitas has GaNSafe, it becomes a very viable option. But I'd say the majority of the EV pipeline is silicon carbide oriented. Today, we have a strategic focus on onboard chargers, which includes the charging of the battery OBC, as well as the discharging in the DC-to-DC converter, as you implied. We're also taking a look at traction inverters, traction motors. So you're going to hear more and more about that step-by-step from us and what role we can play on that EV electric motor or traction motor.

現在 Navitas 有了 GaNSafe，它成為一個非常可行的選擇。但我想說，大多數電動車管路都是以碳化矽為主導的。今天，我們的策略重點是車載充電器，其中包括電池 OBC 的充電，以及 DC-DC 轉換器的放電，正如您所暗示的。我們還在研究牽引逆變器、牽引馬達。因此，您將從我們這裡逐步了解這種情況，以及我們可以在電動車電動馬達或牽引電動馬達上發揮什麼作用。

And the third category to not forget about is roadside chargers. That's a very big and exciting opportunity, today, most chargers are 100 kilowatts, 50 kilowatts. Tesla is leading the charge at 350 kilowatts. We're working with customers to push that to 400, 500, even one megawatt is not out of the question. And that's entirely 100% silicon carbide focus.

第三類不容忽視的是路邊充電器。這是一個非常大且令人興奮的機會，今天，大多數充電器都是100千瓦、50千瓦。特斯拉以 350 千瓦的功率領先。我們正在與客戶合作，將發電量提高到 400、500 兆瓦，甚至 1 兆瓦也不是不可能的。這完全是 100% 碳化矽焦點。

So you kind of look at in those three buckets with a majority towards silicon carbide as I described.

所以，正如我所描述的，您可以從這三個方面來看，碳化矽佔大多數。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Kevin Cassidy, Rosenblatt.

凱文·卡西迪，羅森布拉特。

Congratulations on the good results. Last quarter, you had named -- you had three data center design wins and 30 in the pipeline. You said that was going to drive $10 million to $20 million in 2025. Are these new wins? Is this going to be additive to that, or were you kind of including that in the entire pipeline?

恭喜你取得好成績。上個季度，您曾表示—您已贏得 3 個資料中心設計，還有 30 個正在籌備中。您說過這將在 2025 年推動 1,000 萬美元至 2,000 萬美元的成長。這些是新的勝利嗎？這是對其的補充嗎，或者您是否將其包含在整個管道中？

Yes. We certainly expected the pipeline to continue to grow from the 30, jumping up to and 60 is maybe a little better than we expected, but not totally out of line. So I wouldn't change any expectation or guidance for next year. It'll certainly be very material and a significant ramp for next year.

是的。我們當然預計管道數量將從 30 條繼續增長到 60 條，這可能比我們預期的要好一些，但也不是完全出乎意料。所以我不會改變對明年的任何預期或指導。這對明年來說無疑將非常重要且具有重大的意義。

Okay. Maybe if you can talk a little bit about the competitive landscape, because the data centers are screening for more power and more efficient power. And it seems to be attracting a lot of competition. Can you say how of your -- if you've got 60 design wins, do you have an idea of what percentage of the new designs that are happening that would be?

好的。也許您可以稍微談談競爭格局，因為資料中心正在篩選更多電力和更有效率的電力。而且它似乎正在吸引很多競爭。您能否說一下——如果您獲得了 60 個設計勝利，您是否知道這些新設計佔比是多少？

Yes. The 60 is the total customer opportunities in the pipeline. Not all of them are converted to wins, let alone, of course, revenue, which takes time. But competitively, when you go to higher power, it's actually even more challenging to use discrete GaN in these very high current, high power, high temperature environments. So our GaN IC, specifically GaNSafe, brings a lot of value.

是的。60 是通路中的客戶機會總數。當然，並不是所有努力都能轉化為勝利，更不用說收入了，這需要時間。但從競爭角度來看，當追求更高的功率時，在這些高電流、高功率、高溫環境中使用分立 GaN 實際上更具挑戰性。因此，我們的 GaN IC，特別是 GaNSafe，帶來了很多價值。

Also, if you think about discrete GaN, is unprotected GaN, you go into these high-power applications, they are expected to last 10 to 20 years lifetime. And GaNs, the new kid on the block, it's a new technology, it's unproven in these high-power applications, which is why we took the time to integrate a lot of protection, reliability circuits, calling it the safest and most protected GaN in the world. So all of that gives us significant competitive advantage. Not to say we're going to win everything. And there is competition.

另外，如果您考慮分立的 GaN，即不受保護的 GaN，當您進入這些高功率應用時，它們的預期壽命為 10 到 20 年。而 GaN 則是該領域的新生事物，是一項新技術，尚未在這些高功率應用中得到驗證，這就是為什麼我們花時間整合大量保護和可靠性電路，稱其為世界上最安全、保護程度最高的 GaN。所有這些都為我們帶來了顯著的競爭優勢。這並不是說我們會贏得一切。而且存在競爭。

You can debate silicon versus discrete GaN versus our GaN ICs or GaNSafe. We also have silicon carbide being used increasingly in the PFC circuit, where I think we do really well there. So there's certainly competition. I don't think the landscape has changed. And I think step-by-step, you'll see strong wins and strong market share from Navitas.

您可以討論矽與分立 GaN 與我們的 GaN IC 或 GaNSafe。我們在 PFC 電路中的應用也越來越多，我認為我們在這方面做得非常好。因此肯定存在競爭。我認為景觀並未改變。我認為，一步步來，您將看到 Navitas 取得強勁勝利並佔據強大的市場份額。

Especially having the combination of GaNSafe for that second stage that I talked about, our generation 3 Fast silicon carbide. For the first stage, and, of course, to bring the system design center, which helps our customers speed their time to market, but also get the most out of these technologies to maximize that power density and efficiency. So I think all of that's going to play well. I don't see any major change to the competitive landscape.

特別是我談到的第二階段與 GaNSafe 的結合，也就是我們的第三代快速碳化矽。對於第一階段，當然是引入系統設計中心，這不僅可以幫助我們的客戶加快產品上市時間，還可以充分利用這些技術來最大程度地提高功率密度和效率。所以我認為一切都會順利進行。我沒有看到競爭格局有任何重大變化。

Okay, great. Thank you.

好的，太好了。謝謝。

Joe Moore, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的喬摩爾。

I guess following up on the data center. When you talk about customers, is it -- are you working with hyperscalers, ODMs? Is it the chip providers? Just give us a sense of who the partner is that you work with on that.

我想跟進資料中心。當您談到客戶時，您是否與超大規模製造商、ODM 合作？是晶片提供者嗎？請告訴我們您在這件事上與誰合作。

Yes. Definitely, Joe. Thank you. So we ship into the power supply makers, those are predominantly in Taiwan and China, companies like LITEON, Delta, AcBel, Chicony, Compuware and many others. Those power supply companies then take that power supply and ship it into the guys who are going to do the system integration at the rack level and then ultimately go into the hyperscalers and the overall data center sort of aggregator.

是的。當然，喬。謝謝。因此，我們將產品運送到電源製造商，這些製造商主要位於台灣和中國大陸，例如 LITEON、Delta、AcBel、Chicony、Compuware 等公司。然後，這些電源公司將電源供應器運送給負責機架級系統整合的人員，最終進入超大規模資料中心和整體資料中心的聚合器。

So there's a number of steps in the process, but that's the flow. Increasingly we're talking directly to AWS and Alibaba and Google, Azure and NVIDIA themselves to make sure we understand those future power requirements. And I mentioned in the call that we're marching towards really a doubling of that rack power, 60 to 120 to 240 to [480.] Probably that keeps going. And those comments are coming from what we're learning about the future system requirements to try to work with our design center and those power supply companies that I mentioned over in Asia to kind of get ahead of that curve, which is not going to be easy, but clearly that's the goal.

因此，該過程有許多步驟，但這就是流程。我們越來越多地與 AWS、阿里巴巴、Google、Azure 和 NVIDIA 直接溝通，以確保我們了解未來的電力需求。我在電話中提到，我們正朝著將機架功率翻一番的目標邁進，從 60 到 120，再到 240，最後到 [480]。這些評論來自我們對未來系統要求的了解，試圖與我們的設計中心以及我提到的亞洲的電源公司合作，以走在這條曲線的前面，這並不容易，但顯然這是我們的目標。

Okay, great. And then I think you just talked about competition in the context of data center, but can you talk more generally competition in GaN? Are you seeing anything from China, the bigger powering companies who have done acquisitions in GaN? Just anything changed in the competitive dynamic from who you're competing against?

好的，太好了。然後我認為您剛才談到了資料中心背景下的競爭，但您能更普遍地談談 GaN 中的競爭嗎？您是否看到中國大型電力公司對 GaN 進行收購？您的競爭對手的競爭態勢有什麼變化嗎？

Yes. My comments about GaN and higher power GaN, it apply broadly to each of these higher power segments, whether it's data center, EV, solar, even appliance industrial, where discrete GaN is going to be increasingly challenged due to reliability concerns, complexity, and trying to get the most performance out of it. So I think all of that plays well for our GaNSafe's technology. Also something we didn't talk about this time but did last quarter was bidirectional GaN. That's opening up all new applications in some of these higher power industrial areas.

是的。我對 GaN 和更高功率 GaN 的評論廣泛應用於每個更高功率領域，無論是資料中心、電動車、太陽能，甚至是工業家電，其中分立 GaN 將因可靠性問題、複雜性以及試圖從中獲得最高性能而面臨越來越大的挑戰。所以我認為所有這些都對我們的 GaNSafe 技術有益。另外，我們這次沒有談論但在上個季度談論過的事情是雙向 GaN。這為一些高功率工業領域開啟了全新的應用。

That's even more differentiated than discrete GaN. So again, no change in the competitive landscape. I just think as we get more and more in the market with our GaNSafe ICs and then bidirectional GaN, that's going to strengthen our position and wins.

這比分立的 GaN 更具差異化。所以，競爭格局沒有改變。我只是認為，隨著我們的 GaNSafe IC 和雙向 GaN 在市場上獲得越來越多的市場份額，這將會加強我們的地位並取得勝利。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jon Tanwanteng, CJS Securities.

Jon Tanwanteng，CJS 證券。

Gene, I get the design momentum and the no real pushouts commentary and that the swing factor may be customer production volumes. But I was wondering if you get -- give a little more color on which end markets are maybe feeling a little bit more uncertainty or maybe a little bit more urgency to get products out. What's -- where are the deltas and the momentum, or maybe lack of momentum as you look forward?

吉恩，我了解設計勢頭和沒有真正的推出的評論，而搖擺因素可能是客戶的生產量。但我想知道您是否明白——哪些終端市場可能感受到更多的不確定性，或者哪些終端市場可能更迫切地需要推出產品。什麼是——增量和動量在哪裡，或者也許向前看時缺乏動量？

Yes. Definitely, Jon. And I mentioned that while we're seeing some nice upsides in the mobile consumer, we also mentioned how notebooks has sort of firmed up and got some nice wins there. I still say solar is the area. If you look at kind of percentage of revenue, percentage of pipeline, it's solar.

是的。當然，喬恩。我提到，雖然我們看到行動消費者市場出現了一些不錯的成長，但我們也提到筆記型電腦市場已經逐漸穩固，並且取得了一些不錯的成績。我依然認為太陽能是關鍵領域。如果你看收入百分比、管道百分比，它就是太陽能。

That still seems softer than the other, let's say EV and industrial. As much as the growth rate came down earlier in the year, as many others commented on -- those seem pretty stable as a mix of revenue and pipeline. The one positive in solar, as I mentioned, is of course, GaN for the first time going into microinverters next year, that continues to be committed, stable, on schedule program. So those are how I see sort of the pluses and minuses across those markets.

這似乎仍然比其他的要軟，比如說電動車和工業。儘管今年早些時候增長率有所下降，但正如許多人所評論的那樣——作為收入和管道的組合，這些似乎相當穩定。正如我所提到的，太陽能的一個積極因素當然是GaN將於明年首次進入微型逆變器領域，這將繼續是一個承諾、穩定且按計劃進行的計劃。這就是我所看到的這些市場的優點和缺點。

Got it. And maybe you could address the AI market or the data center market a little bit more. There's been a lot of recent investor consternation over capital spending and returns, and there's been rumors in the market of chip delays. I was wondering if any of that filters down to you into your conversation with your customers. And now that you're talking to the end users like AWS that have they told you kinds of the volumes that you should be expecting down the pipeline or what kind of disruptions there might be if there's a delay?

知道了。也許您可以更專注於人工智慧市場或資料中心市場。最近，投資人對資本支出和回報感到非常擔憂，市場上也流傳著晶片生產延遲的傳言。我想知道這些內容是否會對您與客戶的對話產生影響。現在您正在與 AWS 等最終用戶交談，他們是否告訴過您應該預期的管道傳輸量，或者如果出現延遲可能出現什麼樣的中斷？

Yes, Tanwanteng, I'm glad you brought up like cost to capital, because that complicated sort of supply chain, or the number of steps from going to chip to power supply to rack to integrator to hyperscaler, actually it's a bit of a challenge for us. One, we got to anticipate the future power requirements that we would have to connect down the supply chain. Also another benefit I didn't even bring up earlier about trying to pack more power in smaller size, due to switching speed and efficiency. The other one is when you get higher efficiency, you start reducing the cost of electricity in the data center. Those numbers are actually pretty big.

是的，Tanwanteng，我很高興你提到了資本成本，因為這種複雜的供應鏈，或者從晶片到電源到機架到整合商到超大規模商的步驟數量，實際上對我們來說是一個挑戰。首先，我們必須預測未來供應鏈中需要連接的電力需求。另外還有一個好處，我之前沒有提到，那就是由於切換速度和效率的提高，可以在更小的尺寸中封裝更多的電力。另一個是，當你獲得更高的效率時，你就會開始降低資料中心的電力成本。這些數字實際上相當大。

And then you start reducing the cost of cooling the data center. Those are the second biggest expensive things. And right now, we feel like we're not getting paid for those benefits at the power supply guys, because they're trying to ship a power supply at the -- just keep up with the power density requirement. So I think there's real opportunity better articulate and help the down the line hyperscalers and the rack integrators to truly understand the cost of electricity benefits, the cost of thermal benefits. And I think that'll all come out over time.

然後您就開始降低資料中心的冷卻成本。這些是第二個昂貴的東西。而現在，我們感覺電源供應商並沒有為我們帶來這些福利，因為他們只是想運送電源以滿足功率密度要求。因此，我認為這確實有機會更好地表達並幫助下游超大規模企業和機架整合商真正了解電力效益成本和熱效益成本。我認為隨著時間的推移，這一切都會水落石出。

But this is a new field, GaN, it's a new technology, and we're still kind of getting that message out and building a deeper understanding of all the value throughout that supply chain.

但這是一個新領域，GaN，是一項新技術，我們仍在傳播這一訊息，並對整個供應鏈的所有價值建立更深入的理解。

Is it fair to say as you go into these higher kilowatts per rack, where maybe the competition won't be as able to keep up that you could conceivably charge a higher margin for [those kinds of products.]

是否可以說，隨著每機架功率的增加，競爭對手可能無法跟上，因此你可以收取更高的利潤？[那些類型的產品。

Yes, we do. In fact, if anything, when we talk to these guys, they're like, don't worry about the cost. You need to deliver the efficiency. You need to deliver the thermals. You need to deliver the power.

是的，我們知道。事實上，當我們與這些人交談時，他們會說，不要擔心成本。您需要提高效率。您需要傳遞熱量。您需要傳遞力量。

Now, they're not the guys buying the power supply. They're down -- down the supply chain. But still that seems to be their obsession. So this adds to our confidence that we've got real value here. That value is going to grow over time.

現在，他們不再是購買電源的人了。他們處於供應鏈的下游。但這似乎仍然是他們的迷戀。所以這增強了我們的信心，相信我們在這裡獲得了真正的價值。隨著時間的推移，該價值將會成長。

It'll help us with our long-term margin expectations, of course, as we said earlier. But we got to get that message out throughout the entire supply chain.

當然，正如我們之前所說，它將幫助我們實現長期利潤預期。但我們必須將這訊息傳達給整個供應鏈。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Richard Shannon, Craig-Hallum.

（操作員指示）理查德·香農，克雷格·哈勒姆。

Most of mine have been answered here. But one thing that was interesting here, Gene, is in the last conference call, you talked about this new product called GaNSlim. And I think you said, you had 20 projects. Now, in the press release today, you said you got 50, which is a pretty big pickup, although I see it's mostly mobile consumers. So I can see why you're picking up pretty fast there.

我的大部分問題都在這裡得到解答了。但是，吉恩，有一件事很有趣，在上次電話會議中，你談到了這款名為 GaNSlim 的新產品。我記得你說過，你有 20 個項目。現在，在今天的新聞發布會上，你說你獲得了 50 個，這是一個相當大的成長，儘管我發現其中大部分是行動消費者。所以我明白為什麼你進步得如此之快。

But I guess my question is, how fast do you expect that to take over most of the interest from that consumer and mobile market?

但我想我的問題是，您預計它多快能引起消費者和行動市場的大部分興趣？

Yes. Thanks for bringing it up. We didn't put a big spotlight on it with everything else going on. And you're exactly right. We see GaNSlim taking up a lot of -- creating all new opportunities, even more price sensitive ones.

是的。謝謝你提起這個。由於其他事情都在發生，我們並沒有太多關注它。你說得完全正確。我們看到 GaNSlim 佔據了許多份額——創造了全新的機遇，甚至是對價格更敏感的機會。

It's now clearly more cost effective than silicon at the system level. That's opening up not just mobile opportunities, but consumer opportunities. I didn't put much emphasis on appliances, just because that takes longer. But it's definitely going to be going in there and accelerating the appliance sector, which is already growing pretty strongly with those 25 new wins. So, yes, I think you hit on it correctly.

現在，它在系統層面上顯然比矽更具成本效益。這不僅帶來了行動機遇，也帶來了消費者機會。我並沒有過度強調電器，只是因為那會花更長的時間。但它肯定會進入該領域並加速家電行業的發展，該行業憑藉這 25 項新勝利已經實現了相當強勁的增長。是的，我認為你的理解是正確的。

GaNSlim is really promising. It's opening up new markets, helping us grow share in the existing mobile markets. And all those markets are under 500 watts, right? So there's kind of no limit to where it could go. 500 watts is a lot of power, fast charging or even powering your TV, even powering LED lights.

GaNSlim 確實很有前途。它正在開拓新的市場，幫助我們擴大現有行動市場的份額。所有這些市場的功率都在 500 瓦以下，對嗎？所以它可以去往任何地方都沒有限制。 500 瓦的功率很大，可以快速充電，甚至可以為電視供電，甚至為 LED 燈供電。

So there's a lot of applications out there across mobile and consumer that are sub 500 watts and a good target for GaNSlim.

因此，在行動和消費領域中有很多應用的功率低於 500 瓦，這對 GaNSlim 來說是一個很好的目標。

Okay. That's helpful perspective, Gene. My last question here is on mobile. I've asked this, I think many people have asked this question over the years or quarters you've been doing calls here. But curious as you have seen an increased attach rate through chargers here and then getting any visibility as you go into next year with major phone introductions moving up the charger power curve, getting above that level that you think is going to be kind of a breakpoint for, again, adoption.

好的。這是很有幫助的觀點，吉恩。我的最後一個問題是關於行動裝置的。我問過這個問題，我想在您在這裡打電話的這些年或幾個季度裡，很多人都問過這個問題。但令人好奇的是，您已經看到通過充電器的連接率有所增加，並且隨著明年主要手機的推出，充電器功率曲線上升，超過您認為將再次成為採用的斷點的水平，您是否獲得了任何可見性。

Getting in more visibility into that as you get into next year.

進入明年，您將對此有更深入的了解。

Yes. Thanks for bringing it up, Richard. We've talked a lot in the past about 65 watts and up, being kind of that sweet spot. When you're down around 20 watts, 30 watts, it's mostly plastic in case it's already pretty small. So there's not a lot of leverage for GaN.

是的。謝謝你提出這個問題，理查德。我們過去已經多次討論過 65 瓦及以上，這是最佳值。當功率降低到 20 瓦、30 瓦左右時，它主要由塑料製成，因為它已經非常小了。因此，GaN 的槓桿作用並不大。

You can do it, but you're kind of a cost play at that point. So we're obviously very focused on value and improving that consumer experience. 65 watts is very fast charging for a phone and actually quite fast charging for a tablet or a laptop. If you look across the major players out there, it's the Chinese, Oppo, Xiaomi, Vivo, and others that have been super aggressive to go to 65 watts and higher, 100 watt. We even talked about 200 watts to fast charge a phone, which is easy, fast, 0% to 100% in nine minutes.

你可以做到，但是那時你就需要承擔一定的成本。因此，我們顯然非常注重價值和改善消費者體驗。 65瓦對於手機來說充電速度非常快，對於平板電腦或筆記型電腦來說充電速度實際上也相當快。如果你看看市場上的主要參與者，你會發現中國的 Oppo、小米、Vivo 和其他公司都非常積極地將功率提升到 65 瓦或更高，甚至 100 瓦。我們甚至討論了使用 200 瓦來快速為手機充電，這很簡單、快速，只需 9 分鐘即可從 0% 充電到 100%。

So these are crazy numbers, but we continue to believe those are an indication of where the whole industry is going. There's no reason that China suppliers in particular would be at these higher power levels and others wouldn't. I think others have their own roadmaps. They have their own sort of conservative approach to product development. But I think those are coming.

這些數字令人瘋狂，但我們仍然相信，這些數字預示著整個產業的發展方向。沒有理由中國供應商會達到如此高的功率水平而其他供應商不會。我認為其他人有自己的路線圖。他們對產品開發有自己獨特的保守方法。但我認為這些即將到來。

If you look across the Koreans and the American players, they're now pushing mainstream in the 45-watt range, 30-watt range, which means you're just a step or two away from that 65-watt tipping point, if you will. So I think we see that the trends are going to continue. Everything is going to keep going up into that 65 watt and higher range. And ultimately, we're not done until the consumer can really superfast charge all your devices from one tiny -- 100 watt, 200 watts multiport charger.

如果你看看韓國和美國玩家，他們現在正在推動 45 瓦、30 瓦範圍的主流，這意味著你距離 65 瓦的臨界點只​​有一步之遙。所以我認為我們看到的趨勢將會持續下去。一切都將繼續上升到 65 瓦或更高的範圍。最終，我們不會完成任何目標，直到消費者能夠真正透過一個小小的 100 瓦、200 瓦多連接埠充電器為所有裝置進行超快速充電。

Okay. Great for that. Again, thanks for that perspective, Gene. That's all for me.

好的。太好了。再次感謝您的觀點，吉恩。對我來說這就是全部了。

Jack Egan, Charter Equity Research.

傑克·伊根（Jack Egan），特許權益研究公司。

I just had one. So on the expansion of the internal silicon carbide epi capacity, given some of the lower expectations just for the overall SiC TAM growth this year, have you guys adjusted kind of the pace of your expansion at all, or is it still just going full steam ahead with the internal epi?

我剛剛吃了一個。那麼在內部碳化矽外延產能擴張方面，考慮到今年對整體 SiC TAM 成長的預期較低，你們是否調整了擴張的步伐，還是仍然全力推進內部外延？

Yes. No, you're exactly right, Jack. With the markets adjusting for slower growth rates, there was not the pressing, immediate need to bring that first reactor online. So we put it on hold. We expect to bring it online next year when we can ramp it and get those cost and margin enhancement benefits we talked about.

是的。不，你完全正確，傑克。隨著市場適應成長放緩，第一座反應爐的投產並不緊迫。因此我們就暫時擱置了。我們預計明年該設備將上線，屆時我們可以擴大規模並獲得我們談到的成本和利潤提升效益。

When we originally announced a $20 million strategic manufacturing investments over three years, it was sort of one reactor a year. So probably fair to say you can assume that plan has shifted by about one year based upon the market outlook and the market need.

當我們最初宣布三年內 2000 萬美元的戰略製造業投資時，這相當於每年一座反應爐。因此可以公平地說，您可以根據市場前景和市場需求假設該計劃已經改變了大約一年。

Great. Thanks, Gene.

偉大的。謝謝，吉恩。

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our Q&A session and today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，我們的問答環節和今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的加入。您現在可以斷開連線。