納微半導體 (NVTS) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. My name is Kat, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Navitas Semiconductor second-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝你的支持。我叫 Kat，今天我將擔任你們的會議操作員。此刻，我歡迎大家參加納維半導體2024年第二季財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）

Thank you. I would now like to turn the call over to Stephen Oliver, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

謝謝。我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係副總裁 Stephen Oliver。請繼續。

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Stephen Oliver, Vice President of Investor Relations. Thank you for joining Navitas Semiconductor's Second Quarter 2024 Results Conference Call. I'm joined today by Gene Sheridan, our Chairman, President, CEO and Co-Founder; and Janet Chou, EVP CFO, and Treasurer. A replay of this webcast will be available on our website approximately one hour following this conference cal.

大家下午好。我是史蒂芬‧奧利佛，投資者關係副總裁。感謝您參加納維半導體 2024 年第二季業績電話會議。今天，我們的董事長、總裁、執行長兼聯合創始人吉恩·謝裡丹 (Gene Sheridan) 也加入了我的行列。以及執行副總裁財務長兼財務主管 Janet Chou。本次會議結束後約一小時，我們的網站上將提供該網路廣播的重播。

And the recorded webcast will be available for approximately 30 days following the call. Additional information related to our business is also posted on the Investor Relations section of our website. Our earnings release includes non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures with the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included in our second quarter earnings release and also posted on our website in the Investor Relations section. In this conference call, we will make forward-looking statements about future events or about the future financial performance of Navitas, including acquisitions.

錄製的網路廣播將在電話會議後約 30 天內提供。與我們業務相關的更多資訊也發佈在我們網站的投資者關係部分。我們的收益發布包括非公認會計準則財務指標。這些非公認會計原則財務指標與最直接可比較的公認會計原則指標的對帳包含在我們第二季的收益發布中，並發佈在我們網站的投資者關係部分。在本次電話會議中，我們將對未來事件或納維未來財務表現（包括收購）做出前瞻性陳述。

You can identify these statements by words like we expect or we believe or similar terms. We wish to caution you that such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual events or results to differ materially from expectations expressed in our forward-looking statements. Important factors that can affect Navitas business, including factors that could cause actual results to differ from our forward-looking statements are described in our earnings release. Please also refer to the Risk Factors section in our most recent 10-K and 10-Qs. Our estimates or other forward-looking statements may change and Navitas assumes no obligation to update forward-looking statements to reflect actual results, changed assumptions, or other events, that may occur except as required by law.

您可以透過我們期望或我們相信的字詞或類似術語來識別這些陳述。我們希望提醒您，此類前瞻性陳述存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際事件或結果與我們前瞻性陳述中表達的預期有重大差異。我們的收益報告中描述了可能影響 Navitas 業務的重要因素，包括可能導致實際結果與我們的前瞻性陳述不同的因素。另請參閱我們最新的 10-K 和 10-Q 中的風險因素部分。我們的估計或其他前瞻性陳述可能會發生變化，納維不承擔更新前瞻性陳述以反映實際結果、假設變更或可能發生的其他事件的義務，除非法律要求。

And now over to Gene Sheridan, CEO.

現在請執行長吉恩·謝裡丹 (Gene Sheridan) 發言。

Thanks, Steve, and thanks to all of you for joining us today. I am pleased to announce Q2 revenue of $20.5 million at the top end of our guidance which completes the first half of 2024 with nearly 40% revenue increase compared to the prior year, despite a slowdown in most semiconductor end markets. Gallium nitride and silicon carbide continue to take share from legacy silicon chips. Our GaNSafe ICs offer the highest performance, most reliable, and most protected GaN power device in our industry and continue to drive new business at an extraordinary pace. GaNSafe is now being qualified or designed into over 100 customer projects, spending four different end markets and in all major regions around the world.

謝謝史蒂夫，也謝謝大家今天加入我們。我很高興地宣布，儘管大多數半導體終端市場成長放緩，但第二季營收達到 2,050 萬美元，達到我們指引的上限，到 2024 年上半年，營收較上年成長近 40%。氮化鎵和碳化矽繼續從傳統矽晶片中奪取份額。我們的 GaNSafe IC 提供業界最高性能、最可靠和最受保護的 GaN 功率裝置，並繼續以非凡的速度推動新業務。 GaNSafe 目前已通過 100 多個客戶專案的認證或設計，涵蓋四個不同的終端市場以及全球所有主要地區。

Our latest generation 3 fast silicon carbide technology has improved performance by an additional 20% compared to our prior generation, which already demonstrated the industry's leading efficiency and thermal performance, and now also has over 100 customer projects in our pipeline. The combination of GaNSafe and Gen-3 Fast silicon carbide for AI data centers and EV onboard chargers are creating next-gen power systems that exceed even our own expectations and set new industry standards, in terms of power density, energy efficiency, and system costs. Let me give further specifics in each of our target markets. The AI data center market continues to evolve at a rapid and exciting pace. Traditional servers required a total power of up to 30 kilowatts per rack.

我們最新一代的第三代快速碳化矽技術與上一代產品相比，性能額外提升了20%，已經展現了業界領先的效率和熱性能，目前也有超過100個客戶專案在研。用於人工智慧資料中心和電動汽車車載充電器的GaNSafe 和第三代快速碳化矽的結合正在創建下一代電源系統，該系統甚至超出了我們自己的預期，並在功率密度、能源效率和系統成本方面樹立了新的業界標準。讓我進一步介紹我們每個目標市場的具體情況。人工智慧資料中心市場持續以快速且令人興奮的速度發展。傳統伺服器每個機架所需的總功率高達 30 千瓦。

With NVIDIA's Grace Hopper GPUs, those power levels are being pushed to 60 or even 120 kilowatts. With Blackwell, Ultra and Rubin, we are targeting 240 and even 480 kilowatts in the next two years. Our system design center focused on data centers has stepped up to the challenge with AC to DC server power supply platforms expanding rapidly from 2.7 to 3.2 to 4.5 kilowatts, and targeting 8 to 10 kilowatts by the end of the year. The recently announced 4.5 kilowatt platform combines our newest Gen-3 Fast silicon carbide in the front end power factor correction or PFC section with the industry leading GaNSafe technology in the back end LLC portion to set new industry benchmarks with energy efficiencies of 97% and power densities of nearly 140 watts per cubic inch. As a result, our data center pipeline has grown rapidly faster than any other segment in the last three months and has doubled since our Investor Day in December.

透過 NVIDIA 的 Grace Hopper GPU，這些功率等級將提升至 60 甚至 120 千瓦。對於 Blackwell、Ultra 和 Rubin，我們的目標是在未來兩年內實現 240 甚至 480 千瓦的發電量。我們專注於資料中心的系統設計中心已迎接挑戰，AC-DC伺服器電源平台從2.7千瓦快速擴展到3.2千瓦至4.5千瓦，並計劃在年底實現8至10千瓦的目標。最近發布的4.5 千瓦平台將前端功率因數校正或PFC 部分中最新的Gen-3 Fast 碳化矽與後端LLC 部分中業界領先的GaNSafe 技術相結合，以97% 的能源效率和功率設定了新的行業基準。因此，在過去三個月中，我們的資料中心管道的成長速度比任何其他部門都要快，並且自 12 月的投資者日以來已經翻了一番。

Now, with over 60 customer projects in development, we're pleased to announce another seven data center design wins in Q2. In addition, I'm excited to announce a major technology innovation from our system design center. Traditional PFC circuits operate at low frequency with moderate efficiencies. Our team has unlocked an additional 30% energy savings, four data center PFC circuits, by innovating a novel high frequency soft switching control method, which translates to over 99% peak efficiency for that PFC section with higher power densities and attractive costs. This technology is patent pending and is available immediately for our customers to implement for their Blackwell and Blackwell Ultra designs, that will be integrated with our 8 kilowatt and higher designs while we retrofit the 4.5 and 3.2 kilowatt platforms in the coming months.

現在，隨著 60 多個客戶專案正在開發中，我們很高興地宣布第二季又贏得了七個資料中心設計。此外，我很高興地宣布我們的系統設計中心實現了一項重大技術創新。傳統的 PFC 電路在低頻下工作，效率適中。我們的團隊透過創新一種新穎的高頻軟開關控制方法，在四個資料中心PFC 電路中實現了額外30% 的節能，這意味著PFC 部分的峰值效率超過99%，具有更高的功率密度和有吸引力的成本。該技術正在申請專利，可立即供我們的客戶實施其Blackwell 和Blackwell Ultra 設計，該技術將與我們的8 千瓦及更高功率的設計集成，同時我們將在未來幾個月改造4.5 和3.2 千瓦平台。

In electric vehicles, we see strong growth in our customer pipeline, which now includes over 200 customer projects and is the largest segment of our pipeline. Our latest 22-kilowatt onboard charger platform, which enables 3 times faster charging with 2x higher power density, 30% energy savings, and 40% lighter compared to comparable solutions on the market. We're seeing strong interest, this platform has contributed to a total of 15 new customer design wins in Q2, which includes three major new silicon carbide wins that will start production next year, while we're on track for our first GaN EV revenues to start by the end of 2025. The customer pipeline in both appliance and industrial segments continues to be strong and growing well beyond the $380 million we stated in December, with strong ramp expected in 2025 across diverse customers and regions, including seven of the top 10 appliance leaders, with a total of 25 new design wins in Q2 expected to ramp production next year or 2026. These customer projects span hair care applications, washers, dryers, refrigerators, heat pumps, industrial HVAC, robotics, and automation applications.

在電動車領域，我們的客戶通路強勁成長，目前包括 200 多個客戶項目，是我們通路中最大的部分。我們最新的 22 千瓦車載充電器平台，與市場上的同類解決方案相比，充電速度提高了 3 倍，功率密度提高了 2 倍，節能 30%，重量減輕 40%。我們看到了濃厚的興趣，該平台在第二季度共贏得了 15 個新客戶設計，其中包括將於明年開始生產的三個主要新碳化矽設計，同時我們有望實現第一個 GaN EV 收入到2025年底開始。領導者在第二季度共獲得25 項新設計，預計明年或2026 年將提高產量。

While the solar industry experienced a significant slowdown due to higher interest rates over the last 18 months, as displacement technologies, we are working on over 100 customer projects with GaN for residential microinverters and silicon carbide for higher power, higher voltage string inverters, in addition to their related energy storage systems. We continue strong engagements with the majority of the top 10 solar players and are pleased to announce another six customer design wins in Q2. We are also progressing well for a major U.S. GaN based microinverter ramp in the first half of next year. GaN revenue growth continues in mobile markets as all major OEMs across smartphones, tablets and notebooks continue to increase the percentage of GaN adoption in their fast charger portfolios over legacy silicon power chips.

儘管太陽能產業在過去18 個月中由於利率上升而經歷了顯著放緩，但作為替代技術，我們正在進行100 多個客戶項目，其中使用用於住宅微型逆變器的GaN 和用於更高功率、更高電壓串式逆變器的碳化矽，此外到其相關的能量儲存系統。我們繼續與大多數排名前 10 名的太陽能廠商保持密切合作，並很高興地宣布第二季度另外贏得了 6 個客戶設計。明年上半年美國主要的基於 GaN 的微型逆變器的量產也進展順利。隨著智慧型手機、平板電腦和筆記型電腦領域的所有主要 OEM 繼續提高 GaN 在其快速充電器產品組合中相對於傳統矽功率晶片的採用比例，行動市場的 GaN 收入持續增長。

As discussed in the last call, GaN adoption in customers such as Xiaomi and Oppo is expected to be 30% this year. Following our fast charger design wins for Samsung's Galaxy S23 and S24 phones, we are pleased to announce that the new Galaxy Z Flip6, Z Fold6, and all A series phones, as revealed during July's Galaxy Unpacked event, now use Navitas GaNFast technology to deliver fast, light, truly portable, fast charging experiences for the consumer. Growth in the laptop, PC market resumed in Q1, with GaNFast adopted again by Lenovo for 105- and 170-watt fast chargers and again by Dell, this time for 100 and 130 watts, achieving up to 50% size reduction. Overall, Q2 saw another 16 charger launches, bringing the total to over 470 production designs, and Navitas remains number one in mobile fast charging. Our new GaNSlim portfolio with integration, ease-of-use and low-cost manufacturing methods continues to grow the customer pipeline, now with over 50 customer projects.

正如上次電話會議中所討論的，今年 GaN 在小米和 Oppo 等客戶中的採用率預計將達到 30%。繼我們贏得三星Galaxy S23 和S24 手機的快速充電器設計之後，我們很高興地宣布，正如7 月份Galaxy Unpacked 活動期間所透露的那樣，新款Galaxy Z Flip6、Z Fold6 和所有A 系列手機現在都使用Navitas GaNFast 技術來提供快速充電器設計。筆記型電腦、PC市場在第一季恢復成長，聯想再次採用GaNFast用於105瓦和170瓦快速充電器，戴爾也再次採用GaNFast，這次採用100瓦和130瓦快速充電器，實現了高達50%的尺寸縮小。總體而言，第二季又推出了 16 種充電器，使生產設計總數達到 470 多種，納維仍然是行動快速充電領域的第一名。我們新的 GaNSlim 產品組合具有整合性、易用性和低成本製造方法，不斷擴大客戶通路，目前擁有 50 多個客戶專案。

GaNSlim increases our GaN served market by enabling lower system costs compared to silicon design, for many applications, targeting applications under 500 watts across mobile, consumer and home appliance. Overall, I'm pleased with our Q2 results at the high end of our guidance, combined with the growth of our pipeline, major new design wins and significant new technology launches. Electrification and energy savings have never been more important and Navitas is well-positioned as the only pure play next-gen power semi company with leading-edge gallium nitride and sodium carbide technology. With that, let me turn it over to our CFO, Janet Chao to discuss the financials.

與矽設計相比，GaNSlim 能夠降低許多應用的系統成本，從而擴大我們的 GaN 服務市場，目標是行動、消費性和家用電器等 500 瓦以下的應用。總體而言，我對我們第二季的業績處於指導的高端，加上我們產品線的成長、重大新設計的勝利和重大新技術的推出感到滿意。電氣化和節能從未如此重要，Navitas 已成為唯一一家擁有領先氮化鎵和碳化鈉技術的純下一代電力半導體公司。接下來，讓我將其交給我們的財務長 Janet Chao 討論財務問題。

Thank you, Gene. In my comments today, I will first take you through our second quarter financial results and then I'll walk you through our outlook for the third quarter. Revenue in the second quarter of 2024 grew 13% year-over-year to $20.5 million. While we are experiencing similar macroeconomic factors as others in certain of our end markets, our mobile business was strong in the second quarter, demonstrating the benefits of our smaller, faster, more energy-efficient technology, as we continue to gain significant traction in mobile and consumer charging applications. Before addressing expenses, I'd like to refer you to the GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliations in our press release earlier today.

謝謝你，吉恩。在今天的評論中，我將首先向您介紹我們第二季的財務業績，然後我將向您介紹我們對第三季的展望。 2024 年第二季營收年增 13% 至 2,050 萬美元。雖然我們在某些​​終端市場遇到了與其他人類似的宏觀經濟因素，但我們的行動業務在第二季度表現強勁，這證明了我們更小、更快、更節能的技術的優勢，因為我們在行動領域持續獲得巨大的吸引力和消費者充電應用。在討論費用之前，我想請您參閱今天早些時候新聞稿中的 GAAP 與非 GAAP 調整表。

In the rest of my commentary, I will refer to non-GAAP expense measures. Gross margin in the second quarter was 40.3% compared to 41.5%, the second quarter of 2023, due to mobile market product mix, as we continue to see strength in that part of the business. Gross margin was down sequentially from 41.1%. Total operating expenses for the second quarter were relatively flat sequentially at $21.5 million, comprised of SG&A expenses of $9 million and R&D expenses of $12.5 million. This is a good demonstration of our focus on operating efficiency.

在我的評論的其餘部分，我將提及非公認會計原則費用衡量標準。第二季的毛利率為 40.3%，而 2023 年第二季的毛利率為 41.5%，這得益於行動市場產品組合，我們繼續看到該部分業務的強勁勢頭。毛利率較上一季的 41.1% 下降。第二季總營運費用與上一季持平，為 2,150 萬美元，其中 SG&A 費用為 900 萬美元，研發費用為 1,250 萬美元。這很好地體現了我們對營運效率的重視。

Adding all this together, the second quarter 2024 loss from operations was $13.3 million. Our weighted average share count for the second quarter was 183 million shares. Turning to the balance sheet. It remains very strong with high levels of liquidity. Cash and cash equivalents at quarter end were $112 million and we continue to carry no debt.

將所有這些加在一起，2024 年第二季的營運損失為 1,330 萬美元。我們第二季的加權平均股數為 1.83 億股。轉向資產負債表。它仍然非常強勁，流動性水平很高。季度末現金和現金等價物為 1.12 億美元，我們仍然沒有債務。

While accounts receivable was relatively flat at $22.7 million compared to $22.2 million. In the prior quarter, we made good progress on reducing inventory to $25.2 million from $33.2 million in the prior quarter. Our goal is to continue to improve our working capital. Moving on to guidance for the third quarter, we currently expect revenues of $22 million plus or minus $500,000. At the midpoint, this represents a sequential growth of more than 7%.

而應收帳款則相對持平，為 2,270 萬美元，而應收帳款則為 2,220 萬美元。上一季度，我們在將庫存從上一季的 3,320 萬美元減少到 2,520 萬美元方面取得了良好進展。我們的目標是繼續改善我們的營運資金。接下來是第三季的指導，我們目前預計收入為 2,200 萬美元上下 50 萬美元。從中間值來看，這意味著環比增長超過 7%。

Gross margin for the third quarter is expected to be approximately 40% plus or minus 50 basis points. As our mix continues to lean more towards the mobile market in the near-term. We expect margin improvements will align with demand recovery in higher margin markets. In total, our non-GAAP operating expenses in the third quarter are expected to be approximately $21.5 million and this excludes stock-based compensation and amortization of intangible assets. We're keeping our expenses as flat as possible, as we improve our efficiency and optimize our cost structure, while supporting our growth initiatives.

第三季毛利率預計約40%正負50個基點。由於我們的組合在短期內繼續更加傾向於行動市場。我們預期利潤率的改善將與利潤率較高的市場的需求復甦保持一致。總的來說，我們第三季的非公認會計準則營運費用預計約為 2,150 萬美元，這不包括基於股票的薪資和無形資產攤銷。我們將盡可能保持支出不變，提高效率並優化成本結構，同時支持我們的成長計畫。

For the third quarter of 2024, we expect our weighted average share count to be approximately 185 million shares. In closing, we're pleased with our second quarter performance, which includes good progress in expense management and improvements in working capital. This positions us well to scale the business towards long-term growth and profitability. Operator, let's begin the Q&A session.

2024 年第三季度，我們預計加權平均股數約為 1.85 億股。最後，我們對第二季的業績感到滿意，其中包括費用管理的良好進展和營運資金的改善。這使我們能夠很好地擴展業務，實現長期成長和獲利。接線員，我們開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Ross Seymore, Deutsche Bank.

（操作員指令）Ross Seymore，德意志銀行。

Gene, I wanted to get an update on what you're seeing as far as the end market trends. And really what I'm going for is everybody knows that some of the rebound has been a little slower in a lot of end markets, but how are you seeing the macro side and more importantly, the company-specific ramps? Any pushouts, pull-ins in those ramps, any color on your visibility would be great?

吉恩，我想了解您所看到的終端市場趨勢的最新情況。我真正想要的是，每個人都知道，許多終端市場的一些反彈速度有點慢，但您如何看待宏觀方面，更重要的是，公司特定的成長？坡道上的任何推出、拉入、能見度上的任何顏色都會很棒嗎？

You bet. Ross. Thanks for the question. I think the good news with the choppy market today is that we're not seeing pushouts and delays. That's pretty fundamental to our mid to long-term outlook.

你打賭。羅斯.謝謝你的提問。我認為今天動蕩的市場的好消息是我們沒有看到推出和延遲。這對我們的中長期前景非常重要。

In fact, the pipeline, as I highlighted in the prepared remarks, continues to grow, across all segments. We see growth with EV, especially around onboard chargers. That's a focus area for us, not only with silicon carbide in the near-term, but GaN in the medium-term, late '25 and into '26. We're really pleased with appliance and industrial, even though that market's a little softer on volume, 25 new design wins. I think it's an all-time high, and that's pretty broad-based as I highlighted.

事實上，正如我在準備好的發言中所強調的那樣，所有細分市場的管道都在持續成長。我們看到電動車的成長，尤其是車載充電器方面。這是我們的重點領域，不僅是近期的碳化矽，還有中期、25 年末和 26 年的 GaN。我們對家電和工業領域非常滿意，儘管該市場的銷量稍微疲軟，但仍有 25 種新設計獲勝。我認為這是歷史最高水平，而且正如我所強調的，這是相當廣泛的。

Hair care dryers, washing machines, refrigerators, heat pumps is a big one. These -- that market takes a little longer, as we've been talking about, but now we're getting close to those ramps. Quite a few of them in '25, even more in '26. Even solar, which has probably hit the hardest in the last 18 months, as I mentioned, still on track for that GaN launch. Next year, we see GaN moving into a beachhead position on microinverters, as we talked about for many quarters.

護髮烘乾機、洗衣機、冰箱、熱泵是一大類。正如我們一直在談論的那樣，這個市場需要更長的時間，但現在我們正在接近這些斜坡。其中不少是25年的，26年的甚至更多。正如我所提到的，即使在過去 18 個月中可能遭受最嚴重打擊的太陽能產業，仍有望推出 GaN。明年，我們將看到 GaN 在微型逆變器領域佔據灘頭陣地，正如我們在多個季度所討論的那樣。

But also silicon carbide continues to win more on the commercial string inverter side. And of course, I got to highlight AI data centers and enterprise in general. Coming from a 0 base, it's still one of the smaller segments for us, but it doubled in terms of the number of customer projects. 30 in Q1, 60 now with three design wins we highlighted in Q1, now 7. So we like those trends.

但碳化矽也繼續在商業組串逆變器方面贏得更多勝利。當然，我還需要重點強調人工智慧資料中心和企業。從零基礎開始，它對我們來說仍然是較小的細分市場之一，但就客戶專案數量而言，它增加了一倍。第一季有 30 個，現在有 60 個，我們在第一季強調了三項設計勝利，現在有 7 個。

It's not too meaningful this year, but really starts to be appreciable in the overall revenue next year and continues to grow strongly with those sort of power increases that I talked about in my remarks. So all that stuff's pretty encouraging. I don't highlight mobile consumer because that is our position of strength, that's where we're seeing upsides in the near-term. But that's certainly not going to go away as well, it will just become a smaller percentage of the pipeline over time.

今年意義不大，但明年的整體收入確實開始變得可觀，並且隨著我在演講中談到的那種功率增加而繼續強勁增長。所以所有這些事情都非常令人鼓舞。我不會強調行動消費者，因為這是我們的優勢地位，也是我們近期看到的優勢所在。但這肯定也不會消失，隨著時間的推移，它只會在管道中所佔的比例越來越小。

That's very helpful. I guess just my one follow-up, either for you or Janet. On the gross margin side, when those company-specific design wins that you just went through, Gene start to ramp over time. How do we think about the gross margin puts or takes? I think most of them are accretive, but when do you think those are going to start being built-in in a more meaningful way?

這非常有幫助。我想這只是我的一個後續行動，無論是對你還是珍妮特。在毛利率方面，當您剛剛經歷過的那些特定於公司的設計獲勝時，Gene 開始隨著時間的推移而成長。我們如何看待賣出或賣出的毛利率？我認為它們中的大多數都是增值性的，但是您認為這些何時會開始以更有意義的方式內建？

And what's the kind of aspirational gross margin targets you think over the next year or two that the company could attain?

您認為公司在未來一、兩年可以達成什麼樣的理想毛利率目標？

Ross, thank you for your question. Let me first take that. And Gene can add more color. Our gross margin is heavily dependent on mix. We're seeing very strong momentum going on in mobile.

羅斯，謝謝你的提問。讓我先說一下。而基因可以增添更多色彩。我們的毛利率在很大程度上取決於組合。我們看到行動領域正在呈現非常強勁的勢頭。

Last year, mobile is less than half of the revenue. Now this year, year-to-date, mobile is more than half. So that's kind of margin diluted. But at the same time, we're doing everything we can to drive margin improvement. We've been doing a lot of work with our suppliers to negotiate down, price.

去年，行動業務佔收入的比例還不到一半。今年迄今為止，行動裝置佔比超過一半。所以這就是利潤被稀釋的情況。但同時，我們正在盡一切努力提高利潤率。我們一直在與供應商進行大量工作來談判降價。

As those demands start to ramp up in higher margin markets like solar, EV, or industrial, we will see margin improvement. We're still very committed to the long-term gross margin target of 50% and above.

隨著太陽能、電動車或工業等利潤率較高的市場的需求開始增加，我們將看到利潤率的提高。我們仍然非常致力於 50% 及以上的長期毛利率目標。

Yes. And if I add to that, Ross, just to kind of relate it back to your earlier question, the market mix, and the pipeline, we're winning these customers, we're pricing them. We know what those price points are. We know what's coming to in '25 and '26. So that adds to our confidence as Janet said that it's a market mix-based approach.

是的。羅斯，如果我補充一點，只是為了將其與您先前的問題、市場組合和管道聯繫起來，我們正在贏得這些客戶，我們正在為他們定價。我們知道這些價格點是多少。我們知道 25 和 26 年會發生什麼。正如珍妮特所說，這是一種基於市場組合的方法，這增強了我們的信心。

While we're -- I think, practical about realistic about mobile consumer being below that average in the short-term and even in the long-term, for obvious reasons, the other markets, we continue to feel confident and good about being at that long-term margin model, if not higher, driving the overall corporate average where it needs to be. So I think that puts us in a good place, and that's why we we're comfortable reiterating those margin targets.

雖然我們——我認為，由於顯而易見的原因，行動消費者在短期甚至長期都低於平均水平，但我們仍然對其他市場充滿信心和良好的態度這種長期利潤率模型（如果不是更高的話）將推動整個公司的平均水平達到其需要的水平。因此，我認為這使我們處於有利位置，這就是為什麼我們願意重申這些利潤目標。

Perfect. Thank you.

完美的。謝謝。

Blayne Curtis, Jefferies.

布萊恩·柯蒂斯，杰弗里斯。

I just want to follow-up on Ross's question. Last, I guess, in the June quarter, it seemed like mobile was growing and everything else was kind of correcting. I just wanted to understand, are the other kind of non-mobile businesses flattening out, or are they still declining as you look to September?

我只想跟進羅斯的問題。最後，我想，在六月季度，行動裝置似乎正在成長，而其他一切都在修正。我只是想了解，其他類型的非行動業務是否正在趨於平緩，或者在您展望 9 月時是否仍在下降？

Yes. We don't break it up by quarter by market. But what I can say is, yes, we've seen further upsides on mobile and consumer, which is helpful on the top line, and now we're sequentially growing into Q3 as we guided. At the same time, I would say solar in particular is still a pretty small percentage, quite a bit down from where it was last year. So I think that's the one.

是的。我們不會按季度按市場進行細分。但我可以說的是，是的，我們已經看到了行動和消費者領域的進一步優勢，這對營收很有幫助，現在我們正按照我們的指導逐步進入第三季。同時，我想說太陽能所佔的比例仍然很小，比去年下降了很多。所以我認為就是這樣。

We've probably seen a trade-off between solar as a percentage of revenue versus mobile consumer, skewing that gross margin a bit. But I think things are pretty stable on the others, EV, appliance and industrial, and of course, enterprise is really just getting started. Here's a zero point as we're just ramping those programs. So that's how I'd see sort of the pluses and minuses across the markets and the margin improvements.

我們可能已經看到太陽能佔收入的百分比與行動消費者之間的權衡，這稍微扭曲了毛利率。但我認為其他方面的情況相當穩定，例如電動車、家電和工業，當然，企業實際上才剛起步。這是一個零點，因為我們只是在加強這些計劃。這就是我如何看待整個市場的優點和缺點以及利潤率的提高。

Helpful. And I'm just kind of curious as you look long-term, the -- between the kind of four segments outside of mobile data center, the EV, mobility appliances, and solar. Just kind of curious. I mean, you can see the pipeline building. I'm just kind of curious between those 4.

有幫助。我只是有點好奇，當你從長遠來看，移動資料中心、電動車、行動裝置和太陽能之外的四個細分市場之間。只是有點好奇。我的意思是，你可以看到管道建設。我只是對這 4 個感到好奇。

Which one do you think will contribute revenue the earliest? And is that mostly next year, or could you see some even into the end of this year?

您認為哪一家最早能貢獻收入？大部分是明年嗎？

Yes. We're already shipping silicon carbide into EV and solar. We're already shipping GaN into appliance and shipping SiC into industrial. So we've got a base of business in each of those, but we're going to be layering in new growth. GaN going into solar for the first time next year in ramping, GaN going into EV by the end of '25, ramping in '26.

是的。我們已經將碳化矽應用於電動車和太陽能領域。我們已將 GaN 應用於家電領域，並將 SiC 應用於工業領域。因此，我們在每個領域都擁有了業務基礎，但我們將在新的成長中分層。 GaN 將在明年首次進入太陽能領域，並在 25 年底進入電動車領域，並在 26 年加速進入電動車領域。

Both GaN and silicon carbide ramping for the first time in appreciable production volumes second half of this year. So they're all sort of layering in at different times. And those are largely driven out by product availability, but just design time from when we launched the higher power GaN and other new products in the last year.

今年下半年，氮化鎵和碳化矽的產量首次出現可觀的成長。所以他們都是在不同的時間分層的。這些很大程度上是由產品可用性推動的，但只是從我們去年推出更高功率的 GaN 和其他新產品開始的設計時間。

Got you. Thank you.

明白你了。謝謝。

Quinn Bolton, Needham.

奎因·博爾頓，李約瑟。

I guess I wanted to start, I believe last quarter you guys seemed to feel comfortable with a growth rate in '24 of about 20% for the full year. The September guide looks like it's coming in below consensus. And I'm not sure if you're willing to comment on a growth rate for the year, but just trying to sort of level set where you think 2024 might come out.

我想我想開始，我相信上個季度你們似乎對 24 年全年約 20% 的成長率感到滿意。九月份的指引看起來低於共識。我不確定您是否願意對今年的成長率發表評論，但只是嘗試設定您認為 2024 年可能出現的水平。

Yes. We didn't formally guide, but certainly anticipated a moderated growth rate this year. We still feel good about it. Obviously, it's important that Q3 is now sequentially growing 7% from Q2. We're not formally guiding Q4, but feel good about a growth outlook going from Q3 to Q4, and certainly feel good about growth rates obviously going into next year, albeit not giving a formal guide yet.

是的。我們沒有正式指導，但肯定預計今年的成長率會有所放緩。我們仍然對此感覺良好。顯然，重要的是第三季比第二季環比增長了 7%。我們沒有正式指導第四季度，但對第三季度到第四季度的成長前景感到滿意，當然也對明年的成長率感到滿意，儘管尚未給出正式指導。

So we'll continue to go by quarter-by-quarter. But I'd say that's kind of the color commentary I would offer up.

因此，我們將繼續按季度進行。但我想說這就是我要提供的色彩評論。

Got it. And then you guys have given us really good detail on the customer engagements, customer pipelines. But the near-term, it does feel like some of those projects are either delayed or maybe it's just taking longer to clear inventory before some new projects take off. And so I'm wondering, can you give us any commentary about bookings trends, backlog? I think you've got a couple of questions, but do you feel like you're starting to see the turn in some of these other markets beyond mobile?

知道了。然後你們給了我們關於客戶參與、客戶管道的非常詳細的資訊。但從短期來看，確實感覺到其中一些項目要么被推遲，要么只是在一些新項目啟動之前需要更長的時間來清理庫存。所以我想知道，您能為我們提供有關預訂趨勢、積壓的評論嗎？我想您有幾個問題，但是您是否覺得您開始看到行動以外的其他一些市場的轉變？

Just kind of -- besides the customer activity, which maybe at no fault of your own, is subject to getting delayed or pushed out in time, what gives you confidence that the growth accelerates next year?

只是——除了客戶活動（可能不是您自己的錯）可能會被延遲或及時推遲之外，是什麼讓您對明年的成長加速充滿信心？

Yes. I think short-term backlog coverage for near-term quarters is solid. That's encouraging. Inventory correction, as we said, pockets of inventory definitely in the channel, but we see those stable to improving. So that's encouraging.

是的。我認為近期幾季的短期積壓情況是穩定的。這令人鼓舞。庫存修正，正如我們所說，庫存肯定在渠道中，但我們看到這些庫存穩定在改善。所以這是令人鼓舞的。

And then not seeing the projects pushout, staying on track. I don't think, we saw any appreciable pushouts or delays or certainly cancellations. So at the end of the day, it comes down to the actual production volumes. Customers can be on schedule, they can launch on time, but are they launching at 20% less volume or 20% higher volume? And those are things that ultimately you don't know until you get closer and the orders are coming in.

然後沒有看到項目推出，而是保持在正軌上。我認為，我們沒有看到任何明顯的延遲或延誤，或肯定是取消。所以歸根結底，這取決於實際產量。客戶可以按計劃進行，他們可以按時啟動，但他們的啟動量是減少 20% 還是增加 20%？這些事情最終你都不知道，直到你走近並且訂單進來。

But I think some of those other points about inventory backlog coverage are encouraging. So we're cautiously optimistic, but just don't want to get ahead of ourselves in this choppy market.

但我認為有關庫存積壓覆蓋率的其他觀點令人鼓舞。因此，我們持謹慎樂觀的態度，但只是不想在這個動盪的市場中操之過急。

Got it. So it sounds like it's maybe more fluctuations in those production volumes that may be the biggest swing factor rather than projects pushing out.

知道了。因此，聽起來可能是產量的更多波動才是最大的波動因素，而不是專案的推出。

Yes, exactly. And obviously that's on running programs as much as it is on new programs. So that's a good summary point.

對，就是這樣。顯然，這既適用於運行程序，也適用於新程序。這是一個很好的總結點。

Got it. Thank you, Gene.

知道了。謝謝你，吉恩。

Jack Egan, Charter Equity Research.

傑克·伊根，特許股票研究。

So I had a bit of a high level one on data center. I'm curious as to what the biggest challenges are for the industry to increase the power level of power supply. So you've talked about going from 3.2 kilowatts to 4.5 more recently and then aspirations for 8 to 10 kilowatts eventually. When it comes to the product design, for those server power supplies, what becomes, I guess, the long pole in the tent? Is it the power chips themselves and whether they can developing them so they can handle more power without breaking down?

所以我對資料中心有一些高水準的了解。我很好奇業界在提高電源功率等級方面面臨的最大挑戰是什麼。所以你最近談到了從 3.2 千瓦到 4.5 千瓦，然後最終希望達到 8 到 10 千瓦。當談到產品設計時，對於那些伺服器電源，我猜，帳篷裡的長桿會變成什麼呢？是電源晶片本身的問題嗎？

I mean, I'm basically wondering if the chips themselves are the limiting factor or if it's something else. And then I have a follow-up.

我的意思是，我基本上想知道晶片本身是否是限制因素，或者是否是其他因素。然後我有一個後續行動。

Yes. You bet, Jack. That's a good question for sure. And really it does come down to the switching speed and the efficiency of the power chips. If you can get the gallium nitride or silicon carbide chips to switch faster and more efficiently, the speed actually allows you to shrink the mechanical size of the other passive components, the transformers, inductors and filters, capacitors.

是的。你敢打賭，傑克。這當然是個好問題。事實上，這確實取決於電源晶片的開關速度和效率。如果你能讓氮化鎵或碳化矽晶片更快、更有效率地切換，那麼速度實際上可以讓你縮小其他被動元件、變壓器、電感器和濾波器、電容器的機械尺寸。

When they shrink, not only are they coming down in size to pack more power in the same size, you're also shrinking the case size, the mechanicals, the PCBs. And so mechanical shrink is going to come from the speed of gallium nitride and silicon carbide. At the same time, you've got to worry about the heat. You have more heat to pack into a smaller space if you don't improve the efficiency. And that's why efficiency is the other critical one.

當它們縮小時，它們不僅會縮小尺寸以在相同尺寸內容納更多功率，而且還會縮小外殼尺寸、機械結構和 PCB。因此，機械收縮將來自氮化鎵和碳化矽的速度。同時，你還得擔心炎熱。如果不提高效率，就會有更多的熱量儲存在更小的空間中。這就是為什麼效率是另一個關鍵因素。

So you'll see us constantly talking about pushing frequencies up and pushing efficiencies up. We talked about doing -- now targeting 98% efficiency. That's two points bigger, 25% less power loss, compared to that titanium standard of 96, which is actually really hard to hit for silicon, let alone anybody else in the GaN or silicon carbide space. So speed and efficiency are the key. And that's why I wanted to highlight in my remarks about that PFC circuit.

因此，您會看到我們不斷談論提高頻率和提高效率。我們討論了要做的事情——現在的目標是 98% 的效率。與 96 的鈦標準相比，這要大兩個百分點，功耗要低 25%，而 96 的鈦標準實際上很難達到矽的標準，更不用說 GaN 或碳化矽領域的其他產品了。所以速度和效率是關鍵。這就是為什麼我想在我的評論中強調 PFC 電路。

The PFC circuit power factor correction traditionally is running at slow speeds in mediocre efficiency. And that's been holding us all back. Even when you add gallium nitride or silicon carbide, traditionally, you might get one point in efficiency, which is a big deal, but still not as high as we wanted. The fact that our team has invented a new architecture for PFC that pushes another 30% energy savings is a really big deal and does it at higher switching speeds. So we're nailing those two things.

傳統上，PFC 電路功率因數校正以低速運行，效率一般。這一直阻礙著我們所有人。傳統上，即使添加氮化鎵或碳化矽，效率也可能會提高一分，這很重要，但仍然沒有我們想要的那麼高。事實上，我們的團隊發明了一種新的 PFC 架構，可以再節省 30% 的能源，這確實是一件大事，並且可以在更高的開關速度下實現。所以我們正在解決這兩件事。

And ultimately, that's what it's going to take, speed and efficiency, to deliver a lot more power in the same size rack or tray or individual server power supplies.

最終，這就是在相同尺寸的機架或託盤或單一伺服器電源中提供更多功率所需的速度和效率。

Got it. That's really helpful. And then you are engaged in about 200 electric vehicle projects or wins. Could you go over maybe kind of the wins or pipeline by silicon carbide versus gallium nitride? And then is it fair to assume that most of those -- pretty much all of them are still in the DC -- DC-DC converter for now?

知道了。這真的很有幫助。然後你參與了大約 200 個電動車專案或獲勝。您能否回顧一下碳化矽與氮化鎵相比的勝利或管道？那麼，可以公平地假設其中大多數（幾乎所有這些）目前仍處於 DC——DC-DC 轉換器中嗎？

Yes, good question. Silicon carbide has been the biggest part of the flow. That's what's most commonly used. If you're an 800-volt battery car, you're pretty much exclusively going to focus on silicon carbide. If you're 400 volts, you start to have an option between the 2.

是的，好問題。碳化矽一直是流量中最大的部分。這是最常用的。如果您是 800 伏特電池汽車，那麼您幾乎只會專注於碳化矽。如果你的電壓是 400 伏特，你就可以在兩者之間進行選擇。

Now that Navitas has GaNSafe, it becomes a very viable option. But I'd say the majority of the EV pipeline is silicon carbide oriented. Today, we have a strategic focus on onboard chargers, which includes the charging of the battery OBC, as well as the discharging in the DC-to-DC converter, as you implied. We're also taking a look at traction inverters, traction motors. So you're going to hear more and more about that step-by-step from us and what role we can play on that EV electric motor or traction motor.

現在 Navitas 擁有 GaNSafe，它成為一個非常可行的選擇。但我想說，大部分的電動車管路都是以碳化矽為導向。今天，我們的策略重點是車載充電器，其中包括電池 OBC 的充電，以及 DC-DC 轉換器的放電，正如您所暗示的。我們還在研究牽引逆變器、牽引馬達。因此，您將會從我們這裡聽到越來越多的關於該步驟的信息，以及我們可以在電動汽車電動機或牽引電機上發揮什麼作用。

And the third category to not forget about is roadside chargers. That's a very big and exciting opportunity, today, most chargers are 100 kilowatts, 50 kilowatts. Tesla is leading the charge at 350 kilowatts. We're working with customers to push that to 400, 500, even one megawatt is not out of the question. And that's entirely 100% silicon carbide focus.

第三類不要忘記的是路邊充電器。這是一個非常大且令人興奮的機會，今天，大多數充電器都是100千瓦、50千瓦。特斯拉以 350 千瓦的功率處於領先地位。我們正在與客戶合作，將其提高到 400、500，甚至 1 兆瓦也不是不可能的。這完全是 100% 碳化矽的焦點。

So you kind of look at in those three buckets with a majority towards silicon carbide as I described.

因此，正如我所描述的那樣，您會看到這三個桶中的大多數都傾向於碳化矽。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Kevin Cassidy, Rosenblatt.

凱文·卡西迪，羅森布拉特。

Congratulations on the good results. Last quarter, you had named -- you had three data center design wins and 30 in the pipeline. You said that was going to drive $10 million to $20 million in 2025. Are these new wins? Is this going to be additive to that, or were you kind of including that in the entire pipeline?

恭喜取得好成績。上個季度，您已經贏得了 3 個資料中心設計，還有 30 個正在籌備中。您說過這將在 2025 年帶來 1000 萬至 2000 萬美元的收入。這是否會增加這一點，或者您是否將其包含在整個管道中？

Yes. We certainly expected the pipeline to continue to grow from the 30, jumping up to and 60 is maybe a little better than we expected, but not totally out of line. So I wouldn't change any expectation or guidance for next year. It'll certainly be very material and a significant ramp for next year.

是的。我們當然預計管道將從 30 繼續增長，躍升至 60，這可能比我們預期的要好一些，但並非完全超出預期。所以我不會改變明年的任何期望或指導。這肯定會非常重要，並且明年會有顯著的成長。

Okay. Maybe if you can talk a little bit about the competitive landscape, because the data centers are screening for more power and more efficient power. And it seems to be attracting a lot of competition. Can you say how of your -- if you've got 60 design wins, do you have an idea of what percentage of the new designs that are happening that would be?

好的。也許你可以談談競爭格局，因為資料中心正在篩選更多的電源和更有效率的電源。它似乎吸引了很多競爭。您能說說您的情況嗎？

Yes. The 60 is the total customer opportunities in the pipeline. Not all of them are converted to wins, let alone, of course, revenue, which takes time. But competitively, when you go to higher power, it's actually even more challenging to use discrete GaN in these very high current, high power, high temperature environments. So our GaN IC, specifically GaNSafe, brings a lot of value.

是的。 60 是管道中的總客戶機會。並非所有這些都轉化為勝利，當然更不用說收入了，這需要時間。但從競爭角度來看，當您採用更高功率時，在這些非常高電流、高功率、高溫環境中使用分立式 GaN 實際上更具挑戰性。因此，我們的 GaN IC，特別是 GaNSafe，帶來了很多價值。

Also, if you think about discrete GaN, is unprotected GaN, you go into these high-power applications, they are expected to last 10 to 20 years lifetime. And GaNs, the new kid on the block, it's a new technology, it's unproven in these high-power applications, which is why we took the time to integrate a lot of protection, reliability circuits, calling it the safest and most protected GaN in the world. So all of that gives us significant competitive advantage. Not to say we're going to win everything. And there is competition.

此外，如果您考慮分立式 GaN，即未受保護的 GaN，當您進入這些高功率應用時，它們的使用壽命預計將持續 10 至 20 年。而 GaN，這個新興技術，它是一項新技術，在這些高功率應用中尚未得到證實，這就是為什麼我們花時間整合大量保護、可靠性電路，稱其為最安全、最受保護的 GaN世界。因此，所有這些都為我們帶來了顯著的競爭優勢。並不是說我們會贏得一切。並且存在競爭。

You can debate silicon versus discrete GaN versus our GaN ICs or GaNSafe. We also have silicon carbide being used increasingly in the PFC circuit, where I think we do really well there. So there's certainly competition. I don't think the landscape has changed. And I think step-by-step, you'll see strong wins and strong market share from Navitas.

您可以討論矽、分立 GaN 與我們的 GaN IC 或 GaNSafe。我們也在 PFC 電路中越來越多地使用碳化矽，我認為我們在這方面做得非常好。所以肯定存在競爭。我不認為風景已經改變。我認為，一步一步地，您將看到 Navitas 取得的巨大勝利和強大的市場份額。

Especially having the combination of GaNSafe for that second stage that I talked about, our generation 3 Fast silicon carbide. For the first stage, and, of course, to bring the system design center, which helps our customers speed their time to market, but also get the most out of these technologies to maximize that power density and efficiency. So I think all of that's going to play well. I don't see any major change to the competitive landscape.

特別是我談到的第二階段的 GaNSafe 組合，即我們的第三代快速碳化矽。當然，在第一階段，我們會引入系統設計中心，這不僅可以幫助我們的客戶加快上市時間，而且還可以充分利用這些技術，從而最大限度地提高功率密度和效率。所以我認為所有這些都會進展順利。我認為競爭格局不會有任何重大變化。

Okay, great. Thank you.

好的，太好了。謝謝。

Joe Moore, Morgan Stanley.

喬摩爾，摩根士丹利。

I guess following up on the data center. When you talk about customers, is it -- are you working with hyperscalers, ODMs? Is it the chip providers? Just give us a sense of who the partner is that you work with on that.

我想跟進資料中心。當您談論客戶時，您是否正在與超大規模廠商、ODM 合作？是晶片供應商嗎？請讓我們了解與您合作的合作夥伴是誰。

Yes. Definitely, Joe. Thank you. So we ship into the power supply makers, those are predominantly in Taiwan and China, companies like LITEON, Delta, AcBel, Chicony, Compuware and many others. Those power supply companies then take that power supply and ship it into the guys who are going to do the system integration at the rack level and then ultimately go into the hyperscalers and the overall data center sort of aggregator.

是的。當然，喬。謝謝。因此，我們向電源製造商供貨，這些製造商主要位於台灣和中國大陸，例如 LITEON、Delta、AcBel、Chicony、Compuware 等公司。然後，這些電源公司將電源運送給將在機架層級進行系統整合的人員，然後最終進入超大規模和整個資料中心的聚合器。

So there's a number of steps in the process, but that's the flow. Increasingly we're talking directly to AWS and Alibaba and Google, Azure and NVIDIA themselves to make sure we understand those future power requirements. And I mentioned in the call that we're marching towards really a doubling of that rack power, 60 to 120 to 240 to [480.] Probably that keeps going. And those comments are coming from what we're learning about the future system requirements to try to work with our design center and those power supply companies that I mentioned over in Asia to kind of get ahead of that curve, which is not going to be easy, but clearly that's the goal.

所以這個過程中有很多步驟，但這就是流程。我們越來越多地直接與 AWS、阿里巴巴、Google、Azure 和 NVIDIA 本身對話，以確保我們了解未來的電力需求。我在電話中提到，我們正在努力將機架功率真正加倍，從 60 到 120，從 240 到 [480]。這些評論來自我們正在了解的未來系統要求，以嘗試與我們的設計中心和我在亞洲提到的那些電源公司合作，以領先於這一曲線，這不會是很容易，但顯然這就是目標。

Okay, great. And then I think you just talked about competition in the context of data center, but can you talk more generally competition in GaN? Are you seeing anything from China, the bigger powering companies who have done acquisitions in GaN? Just anything changed in the competitive dynamic from who you're competing against?

好的，太好了。我想您剛剛談到了資料中心背景下的競爭，但您能否更廣泛地談談 GaN 領域的競爭？您是否看到中國這些大型電力公司在 GaN 領域進行了收購？與你的競爭對手相比，競爭動態有什麼改變嗎？

Yes. My comments about GaN and higher power GaN, it apply broadly to each of these higher power segments, whether it's data center, EV, solar, even appliance industrial, where discrete GaN is going to be increasingly challenged due to reliability concerns, complexity, and trying to get the most performance out of it. So I think all of that plays well for our GaNSafe's technology. Also something we didn't talk about this time but did last quarter was bidirectional GaN. That's opening up all new applications in some of these higher power industrial areas.

是的。我對GaN 和更高功率GaN 的評論，它廣泛適用於每個更高功率領域，無論是資料中心、電動車、太陽能，甚至家電工業，在這些領域，由於可靠性問題、複雜性和可靠性問題，分立式GaN 將面臨越來越多的挑戰。所以我認為所有這些都適合我們的 GaNSafe 技術。我們這次沒有談論但上個季度談論過的還有雙向 GaN。這在一些高功率工業領域開闢了所有新的應用。

That's even more differentiated than discrete GaN. So again, no change in the competitive landscape. I just think as we get more and more in the market with our GaNSafe ICs and then bidirectional GaN, that's going to strengthen our position and wins.

這比分立式 GaN 更具差異化。再說一遍，競爭格局沒有改變。我只是認為，隨著我們的 GaNSafe IC 和雙向 GaN 越來越多地進入市場，這將鞏固我們的地位並贏得勝利。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jon Tanwanteng, CJS Securities.

Jon Tanwanteng，CJS 證券。

Gene, I get the design momentum and the no real pushouts commentary and that the swing factor may be customer production volumes. But I was wondering if you get -- give a little more color on which end markets are maybe feeling a little bit more uncertainty or maybe a little bit more urgency to get products out. What's -- where are the deltas and the momentum, or maybe lack of momentum as you look forward?

吉恩，我得到了設計動力和沒有真正推出的評論，而搖擺因素可能是客戶的產量。但我想知道您是否能更詳細地了解哪些終端市場可能會感到更多的不確定性，或者可能更緊迫地推出產品。三角洲和動力在哪裡，或者在您展望未來時可能缺乏動力？

Yes. Definitely, Jon. And I mentioned that while we're seeing some nice upsides in the mobile consumer, we also mentioned how notebooks has sort of firmed up and got some nice wins there. I still say solar is the area. If you look at kind of percentage of revenue, percentage of pipeline, it's solar.

是的。當然，喬恩。我提到，雖然我們在行動消費者中看到了一些不錯的優勢，但我們也提到了筆記型電腦如何在某種程度上鞏固並取得了一些不錯的勝利。我還是說太陽能是這個領域。如果你看一下收入的百分比、管道的百分比，那就是太陽能。

That still seems softer than the other, let's say EV and industrial. As much as the growth rate came down earlier in the year, as many others commented on -- those seem pretty stable as a mix of revenue and pipeline. The one positive in solar, as I mentioned, is of course, GaN for the first time going into microinverters next year, that continues to be committed, stable, on schedule program. So those are how I see sort of the pluses and minuses across those markets.

這似乎仍然比另一個領域（例如電動車和工業領域）要軟一些。正如許多其他人評論的那樣，儘管今年早些時候增長率有所下降，但從收入和管道來看，這些似乎相當穩定。正如我所提到的，太陽能領域的一個積極因素當然是 GaN 明年首次進入微型逆變器，該項目將繼續致力於、穩定、按計劃進行。這就是我對這些市場的優缺點的看法。

Got it. And maybe you could address the AI market or the data center market a little bit more. There's been a lot of recent investor consternation over capital spending and returns, and there's been rumors in the market of chip delays. I was wondering if any of that filters down to you into your conversation with your customers. And now that you're talking to the end users like AWS that have they told you kinds of the volumes that you should be expecting down the pipeline or what kind of disruptions there might be if there's a delay?

知道了。也許你可以更專注於人工智慧市場或資料中心市場。最近，許多投資者對資本支出和回報感到驚愕，市場上也有晶片延遲交付的傳言。我想知道您與客戶的對話中是否會滲透到這些內容。現在，您正在與 AWS 等最終用戶交談，他們是否已經告訴您您應該預期的管道數量，或者如果出現延遲可能會出現什麼樣的中斷？

Yes, Tanwanteng, I'm glad you brought up like cost to capital, because that complicated sort of supply chain, or the number of steps from going to chip to power supply to rack to integrator to hyperscaler, actually it's a bit of a challenge for us. One, we got to anticipate the future power requirements that we would have to connect down the supply chain. Also another benefit I didn't even bring up earlier about trying to pack more power in smaller size, due to switching speed and efficiency. The other one is when you get higher efficiency, you start reducing the cost of electricity in the data center. Those numbers are actually pretty big.

是的，譚萬騰，我很高興你提到資本成本，因為那種複雜的供應鏈，或者從晶片到電源到機架到集成商到超大規模的步驟數量，實際上是一個挑戰為了我們。第一，我們必須預測未來必須連接到供應鏈的電力需求。由於開關速度和效率，我之前甚至沒有提到的另一個好處是嘗試以更小的尺寸封裝更多的功率。另一種是當你獲得更高的效率時，你就開始降低資料中心的電力成本。這些數字實際上相當大。

And then you start reducing the cost of cooling the data center. Those are the second biggest expensive things. And right now, we feel like we're not getting paid for those benefits at the power supply guys, because they're trying to ship a power supply at the -- just keep up with the power density requirement. So I think there's real opportunity better articulate and help the down the line hyperscalers and the rack integrators to truly understand the cost of electricity benefits, the cost of thermal benefits. And I think that'll all come out over time.

然後您開始降低資料中心的冷卻成本。這些是第二個昂貴的東西。現在，我們覺得我們並沒有因為電源供應商的這些福利而得到報酬，因為他們正試圖在滿足功率密度要求的情況下運送電源。因此，我認為確實有機會更好地闡明並幫助下線超大規模企業和機架整合商真正了解電力效益成本和熱效益成本。我認為隨著時間的推移，這一切都會水落石出。

But this is a new field, GaN, it's a new technology, and we're still kind of getting that message out and building a deeper understanding of all the value throughout that supply chain.

但這是一個新領域，GaN，這是一項新技術，我們仍在傳達這一訊息，並對整個供應鏈的所有價值有更深入的了解。

Is it fair to say as you go into these higher kilowatts per rack, where maybe the competition won't be as able to keep up that you could conceivably charge a higher margin for [those kinds of products.]

公平地說，當您進入每機架更高的千瓦時，競爭對手可能無法跟上您可以為[此類產品]收取更高的利潤。

Yes, we do. In fact, if anything, when we talk to these guys, they're like, don't worry about the cost. You need to deliver the efficiency. You need to deliver the thermals. You need to deliver the power.

是的，我們願意。事實上，如果有的話，當我們與這些人交談時，他們會說，不要擔心成本。您需要提供效率。你需要傳遞熱量。你需要傳遞力量。

Now, they're not the guys buying the power supply. They're down -- down the supply chain. But still that seems to be their obsession. So this adds to our confidence that we've got real value here. That value is going to grow over time.

現在，他們不再是購買電源的人了。他們處於供應鏈下游。但這似乎仍然是他們的迷戀。因此，這增強了我們的信心，讓我們相信我們在這裡擁有真正的價值。該價值會隨著時間的推移而增長。

It'll help us with our long-term margin expectations, of course, as we said earlier. But we got to get that message out throughout the entire supply chain.

當然，正如我們之前所說，這將有助於我們實現長期利潤預期。但我們必須在整個供應鏈中傳達這一訊息。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Richard Shannon, Craig-Hallum.

（操作員說明）Richard Shannon，Craig-Hallum。

Most of mine have been answered here. But one thing that was interesting here, Gene, is in the last conference call, you talked about this new product called GaNSlim. And I think you said, you had 20 projects. Now, in the press release today, you said you got 50, which is a pretty big pickup, although I see it's mostly mobile consumers. So I can see why you're picking up pretty fast there.

我的大部分問題都在這裡得到了解答。但這裡有趣的一件事是，Gene，在上次電話會議中，您談到了這款名為 GaNSlim 的新產品。我想你說過，你有 20 個項目。現在，在今天的新聞稿中，您說您有 50 個，這是一個相當大的成長，儘管我看到它主要是行動消費者。所以我明白為什麼你的反應速度這麼快了。

But I guess my question is, how fast do you expect that to take over most of the interest from that consumer and mobile market?

但我想我的問題是，您預計這會以多快的速度奪走消費者和行動市場的大部分興趣？

Yes. Thanks for bringing it up. We didn't put a big spotlight on it with everything else going on. And you're exactly right. We see GaNSlim taking up a lot of -- creating all new opportunities, even more price sensitive ones.

是的。感謝您提出來。當其他事情都在發生時，我們並沒有把重點放在它身上。你是完全正確的。我們看到 GaNSlim 佔據了很多——創造了所有新的機會，甚至是對價格更敏感的機會。

It's now clearly more cost effective than silicon at the system level. That's opening up not just mobile opportunities, but consumer opportunities. I didn't put much emphasis on appliances, just because that takes longer. But it's definitely going to be going in there and accelerating the appliance sector, which is already growing pretty strongly with those 25 new wins. So, yes, I think you hit on it correctly.

現在，它在系統級顯然比矽更具成本效益。這不僅帶來了行動機會，也帶來了消費者機會。我並沒有太強調電器，只是因為這需要更長的時間。但它肯定會進入那裡並加速家電行業的發展，該行業已經憑藉這 25 項新勝利而強勁增長。所以，是的，我認為你是正確的。

GaNSlim is really promising. It's opening up new markets, helping us grow share in the existing mobile markets. And all those markets are under 500 watts, right? So there's kind of no limit to where it could go. 500 watts is a lot of power, fast charging or even powering your TV, even powering LED lights.

GaNSlim 確實很有前途。它正在開拓新市場，幫助我們增加現有行動市場的份額。所有這些市場的功率都低於 500 瓦，對嗎？所以它的去向是沒有限制的。 500 瓦功率很大，可以快速充電，甚至可以為電視供電，甚至可以為 LED 燈供電。

So there's a lot of applications out there across mobile and consumer that are sub 500 watts and a good target for GaNSlim.

因此，行動和消費領域有許多功率低於 500 瓦的應用，都是 GaN 的良好目標。

Okay. That's helpful perspective, Gene. My last question here is on mobile. I've asked this, I think many people have asked this question over the years or quarters you've been doing calls here. But curious as you have seen an increased attach rate through chargers here and then getting any visibility as you go into next year with major phone introductions moving up the charger power curve, getting above that level that you think is going to be kind of a breakpoint for, again, adoption.

好的。這是很有幫助的觀點，吉恩。我的最後一個問題是關於行動裝置的。我已經問過這個問題，我想在你打電話的這些年或幾個季度裡，很多人都問過這個問題。但很好奇的是，您在這裡看到了充電器的連接率增加，然後當您進入明年時，隨著主要手機的推出，充電器功率曲線上升，超過您認為將成為斷點的水平再次，為了收養。

Getting in more visibility into that as you get into next year.

當你進入明年時，可以更清楚地了解這一點。

Yes. Thanks for bringing it up, Richard. We've talked a lot in the past about 65 watts and up, being kind of that sweet spot. When you're down around 20 watts, 30 watts, it's mostly plastic in case it's already pretty small. So there's not a lot of leverage for GaN.

是的。謝謝你提出來，理查。過去我們多次討論過 65 瓦及以上的功率，這是一個最佳選擇。當功率降低到 20 瓦、30 瓦左右時，它主要是塑膠的，以防它已經很小了。因此，GaN 的優勢並不大。

You can do it, but you're kind of a cost play at that point. So we're obviously very focused on value and improving that consumer experience. 65 watts is very fast charging for a phone and actually quite fast charging for a tablet or a laptop. If you look across the major players out there, it's the Chinese, Oppo, Xiaomi, Vivo, and others that have been super aggressive to go to 65 watts and higher, 100 watt. We even talked about 200 watts to fast charge a phone, which is easy, fast, 0% to 100% in nine minutes.

你可以做到，但那時你就有點成本遊戲了。因此，我們顯然非常關注價值和改善消費者體驗。 65 瓦對於手機充電來說非常快，對於平板電腦或筆記型電腦來說實際上也相當快。如果你看看市場上的主要廠商，你會發現中國的 Oppo、小米、Vivo 和其他廠商都非常積極地向 65 瓦甚至更高的 100 瓦邁進。我們甚至談到了 200 瓦的手機快速充電，這很簡單、快速，九分鐘內從 0% 到 100%。

So these are crazy numbers, but we continue to believe those are an indication of where the whole industry is going. There's no reason that China suppliers in particular would be at these higher power levels and others wouldn't. I think others have their own roadmaps. They have their own sort of conservative approach to product development. But I think those are coming.

所以這些數字很瘋狂，但我們仍然相信這些顯示了整個產業的發展方向。沒有理由特別是中國供應商會達到如此高的實力水平，而其他供應商則不會。我認為其他人有自己的路線圖。他們對產品開發有自己的保守方法。但我認為這些即將到來。

If you look across the Koreans and the American players, they're now pushing mainstream in the 45-watt range, 30-watt range, which means you're just a step or two away from that 65-watt tipping point, if you will. So I think we see that the trends are going to continue. Everything is going to keep going up into that 65 watt and higher range. And ultimately, we're not done until the consumer can really superfast charge all your devices from one tiny -- 100 watt, 200 watts multiport charger.

如果你看看韓國和美國的玩家，他們現在正在推動 45 瓦範圍、30 瓦範圍的主流，這意味著你距離 65 瓦臨界點僅一兩步，如果你將要。所以我認為我們看到這種趨勢將會持續下去。一切都將繼續上升到 65 瓦及更高的範圍。最終，直到消費者真正能夠透過一個微型 100 瓦、200 瓦多連接埠充電器為您的所有裝置進行超快速充電時，我們才算完成任務。

Okay. Great for that. Again, thanks for that perspective, Gene. That's all for me.

好的。非常適合這個。再次感謝吉恩的觀點。這就是我的全部。

Jack Egan, Charter Equity Research.

傑克·伊根，特許股票研究。

I just had one. So on the expansion of the internal silicon carbide epi capacity, given some of the lower expectations just for the overall SiC TAM growth this year, have you guys adjusted kind of the pace of your expansion at all, or is it still just going full steam ahead with the internal epi?

我剛喝了一個。因此，在內部碳化矽外延產能的擴張方面，鑑於今年對 SiC TAM 整體成長的預期較低，你們是否已經調整了擴張的步伐，或者仍然在全速前進領先於內部外延？

Yes. No, you're exactly right, Jack. With the markets adjusting for slower growth rates, there was not the pressing, immediate need to bring that first reactor online. So we put it on hold. We expect to bring it online next year when we can ramp it and get those cost and margin enhancement benefits we talked about.

是的。不，你說得對，傑克。隨著市場適應較慢的成長率，並沒有迫切需要讓第一個反應器上線。所以我們把它擱置了。我們預計明年將其上線，屆時我們可以提升它並獲得我們談到的成本和利潤提高收益。

When we originally announced a $20 million strategic manufacturing investments over three years, it was sort of one reactor a year. So probably fair to say you can assume that plan has shifted by about one year based upon the market outlook and the market need.

當我們最初宣佈在三年內進行 2000 萬美元的戰略製造投資時，相當於每年一個反應爐。因此，公平地說，您可以根據市場前景和市場需求假設該計劃已經改變了大約一年。

Great. Thanks, Gene.

偉大的。謝謝，吉恩。

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our Q&A session and today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.

女士們先生們，我們的問答環節和今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的加入。您現在可以斷開連線。