NACCO Industries Inc (NC) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. My name is Tina, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the NACCO Industries' 2025 fourth quarter and full year earnings call.

感謝您的耐心等待。我叫蒂娜，今天我將擔任你們的會議接線生。在此，我謹歡迎各位參加 NACCO Industries 2025 年第四季及全年財報電話會議。

All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise.

所有線路均已靜音，以防止任何背景噪音。

After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session.(Operator Instructions) It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Christina Kmetko. Investor Relations, please go ahead.

演講結束後，將進行問答環節。 （操作說明）現在我很高興將電話轉交給克里斯蒂娜·克梅特科。投資者關係部門，請開始。

Good morning everyone and thank you for joining us for today's 2025 fourth quarter and full year earnings call. I'm Christina Kometko, and I'm responsible for investor relations at NACO. I'm joined today by NACO's President and CEO JC Butler and senior Vice President andtroller Elizabeth Logman. Yesterday evening we announced our fourth quarter and full year results and filed our 10-K with the SEC.

各位早安，感謝各位參加今天的2025年第四季及全年財報電話會議。我是 Christina Kometko，我負責 NACO 的投資者關係。今天與我一同出席的有NACO總裁兼執行長JC Butler和資深副總裁兼財務長Elizabeth Logman。昨晚我們公佈了第四季度和全年業績，並向美國證券交易委員會提交了 10-K 表格。

Both documents are on our website for your reference. We'll refer today to several non-GAAP metrics to give you a clearer picture of how we think about our business. Reconciliations to GAAP can also be found on our website.

這兩份文件都已上傳至我們的網站，供您參考。今天我們將參考幾個非GAAP指標，以便讓您更清楚地了解我們是如何看待我們業務的。您也可以在我們的網站上找到與 GAAP 的調整表。

Before beginning our discussion, let me remind you that today's remarks will include forward-looking statements. As always, actual outcomes may differ materially due to various risks and uncertainties which are described in our earnings release, 100, and other filings. We undertake no obligation to update these statements. With those quick notes out of the way, I'll turn the call over to JC for his opening remarks. JC?

在開始討論之前，請允許我提醒各位，今天的發言將包含一些前瞻性陳述。與以往一樣，實際結果可能會因各種風險和不確定性而與預期存在重大差異，這些風險和不確定性已在我們的獲利報告、100 和其他文件中進行了描述。我們不承擔更新這些聲明的義務。簡單說明完畢，接下來我將把電話交給 JC，請他致開幕詞。JC？

Thanks, Christie, and good morning, everyone. Before I begin, I'd like to take a moment to discuss an incident that happened at one of our Florida operations. The safety and well-being of our employees has always been a cornerstone of our company's values.

謝謝克里斯蒂，大家早安。在開始之前，我想花一點時間談談我們佛羅裡達州某營運點發生的事件。員工的安全和福祉一直是我們公司價值觀的基石。

Despite this focus, a tragic incident in December resulted in the loss of 2 employees. This loss deeply affected us, and we extend our heartfelt condolences to the family, friends, and colleagues of these two individuals. This is a solemn reminder of the importance we place on protecting the well-being of our people every day. In the aftermath of this tragedy, we are actively reinforcing our safety expectations across the organization. Our employees are the nucleus of our success, and their safety will always come before all else.

儘管如此，12 月發生的一起悲劇事件導致 2 名員工喪生。這項損失對我們打擊很大，我們向這兩位逝者的家人、朋友和同事致以最深切的慰問。這鄭重提醒我們，保護人民福祉是我們每天工作的重中之重。在這場悲劇發生之後，我們正在積極加強整個組織的安全意識。員工是我們成功的核心，他們的安全永遠是第一位的。

I'll now discuss our operating performance. We delivered a strong close to 2025. Our fourth quarter operating profit rose 95% over last year and almost 12% sequentially. All three of our reportable segments reported improved year over year results led by a significant increase in the utility coal mining segment. Overall, we continue to build upon the improving profitability and growth we experienced in the 3rd quarter. Highlighting a second half that overcame operational challenges experienced during the first half of the year.

接下來我將討論我們的營運表現。我們為2025年畫下了圓滿的句點。我們第四季的營業利潤比去年同期成長了95%，較上季成長了近12%。我們所有三個可報告業務板塊的業績均同比增長，其中公用事業煤炭開採板塊的業績大幅增長最為顯著。總體而言，我們繼續鞏固了第三季以來不斷提高的獲利能力和成長動能。重點介紹下半年如何克服上半年遇到的營運挑戰。

We disclosed over the past several quarters that we were terminating our pension plan during the fourth quarter, and I'm happy to report that we have now successfully settled all future pension obligations. As a result of completing this process, we recognized an after-tax termination charge of $6 million.

在過去的幾個季度裡，我們披露了我們將在第四季度終止退休金計劃，我很高興地報告，我們現在已經成功解決了所有未來的退休金義務。完成此流程後，我們確認了 600 萬美元的稅後終止費用。

Discharge and an increase in tax expense, which Liz will explain in more detail, contributed to our reported fourth quarter net loss of $3.8 million. These transactional anomalies aside, I feel good about our underlying operating results, which contributed to the 59% year over year and 14% sequential increases in adjusted EBITDA. I believe these results represent a business delivering on its potential.

出境和稅收支出增加（Liz 將對此進行更詳細的解釋）導致我們報告的第四季度淨虧損 380 萬美元。撇開這些交易異常情況不談，我對我們的基本經營業績感到滿意，這促成了調整後 EBITDA 同比增長 59% 和環比增長 14%。我認為這些結果表明，這家企業正在充分發揮其潛力。

Our utility coal mining segment, which features long-term mining contracts, remains the foundation of our business. I'm pleased to say that our utility coal mining segment reported a gross profit this quarter after a number of quarters of losses.

我們的公用事業煤礦開採業務以長期採礦合約為特色，仍然是我們業務的基礎。我很高興地宣布，在連續幾季虧損後，我們的公用事業煤礦開採部門本季實現了毛利。

\For more than a year, I've discussed Mississippi Lignite's unfavorable contract mechanics that resulted in a lower per ton sales price that unfavorably affected results. The team at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company has worked diligently to mine efficiently and control costs, and this quarter, the mine produced and sold more tons and as a result, benefited from higher production efficiency and a lower cost per ton sold.

一年多來，我一直在討論密西西比褐煤不利的合約機制，這些機制導致每噸銷售價格降低，從而對業績產生了不利影響。密西西比褐煤礦業公司的團隊一直努力提高開採效率並控製成本，本季度，該礦生產和銷售了更多噸褐煤，因此，生產效率更高，每噸銷售成本更低。

Production also outpaced deliveries in the period, leading to certain production costs to be capitalized into inventory. These factors drove the current gross quarters, the current quarter gross profit compared to the prior year loss when results were affected by a significant inventory write-down.

該期間產量也超過了交付量，導致部分生產成本計入庫存。這些因素導致了本季毛利與上年同期虧損的對比，去年同期業績受到重大存貨減損的影響。

I'd like to be able to say the results of Mississippi Lignite Mining Company are moving in the right direction now, especially with an anticipated increase in the contractually determined price per ton. However, the customer's power plant began a maintenance outage in mid February, which is affecting 1st quarter demand.

我希望能夠說，密西西比褐煤礦業公司的業績現在正朝著正確的方向發展，尤其是在合約確定的每噸價格預計上漲的情況下。然而，該客戶的發電廠從二月中旬開始停電進行維護，影響了第一季的需求。

The power plant is expected to resume operations in mid-March. We are expecting year over year improvements at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company in 2026, but any delay or further changes in demand or dispatch or any reduced power plant mechanical availability could alter our expectations. Our contract mining segment continues to benefit from ongoing progress on operational and strategic initiatives designed to enhance profitability.

該發電廠預計三月中旬恢復營運。我們預計密西西比褐煤礦業公司在 2026 年將逐年改善，但任何延誤或需求或調度的進一步變化，或任何發電廠機械可用性的降低，都可能改變我們的預期。我們的合約採礦業務持續受益於旨在提高盈利能力的營運和策略舉措的不斷進展。

Improved margins driven largely by contracts executed in recent years and other growth initiatives led to an increase in this segment's year over year operating performance. This segment remains our growth platform for mining through continued geographic and mineral expansion, we're building a growing portfolio of long-term contracts that strengthen the foundation for sustained profitability.

近年來簽訂的合約和其他成長舉措推動了利潤率的提高，進而帶動了該業務板塊年度經營業績的同比增長。透過不斷擴大地域和礦產資源，該領域仍然是我們的採礦成長平台，我們正在建立不斷增長的長期合約組合，從而鞏固持續獲利的基礎。

As I mentioned during our Q3 earnings call, we secured a multi-year dragline services contract a part, as part of the US Army Corps of Engineers dam construction project in Palm Beach County, Florida. This project is already starting to ramp up.

正如我在第三季度財報電話會議上提到的，我們獲得了一項多年期的挖掘機服務合同，作為美國陸軍工程兵團在佛羅裡達州棕櫚灘縣大壩建設項目的一部分。這個專案已經開始加速推進了。

We're excited about this opportunity as it advances our growth into large scale infrastructure projects. This project also provides an opportunity to showcase the efficiency and environmental advantages of the new electric drive MTech drag lines. We also anticipate commencing operations at a new limestone quarry in Arizona in 2026.

我們對這個機會感到非常興奮，因為它將推動我們向大型基礎設施項目發展。該專案還提供了一個機會，可以展示新型電動驅動 MTech 拖曳線的效率和環境優勢。我們也預計將於 2026 年在亞利桑那州開始營運一個新的石灰石採石場。

Turning to minerals and royalties, this segment grew year over year. Royalties from our legacy natural gas assets benefited from higher prices and production, more than offsetting the impact of lower oil prices and production. The Catapult team continues to actively pursue additional investment opportunities to support future growth in earnings.

就礦產和特許權使用費而言，該部分業務逐年成長。我們從原有天然氣資產中獲得的特許權使用費受益於更高的價格和產量，足以抵消石油價格和產量下降的影響。Catapult 團隊將繼續積極尋求其他投資機會，以支持未來的獲利成長。

At mitigation Resources, we expect increasing profitability over time from the sale of mitigation credits and as reclamation and restoration services expand.

隨著補償資源公司的銷售以及修復和恢復服務的擴展，我們預計隨著時間的推移，其獲利能力將持續提高。

While performance is currently variable due to permit and project timing, mitigation resources is expected to generate a profit in the second half of 2026 and move toward more consistent results over time as the business expands.

雖然由於許可證和專案時間表，目前的業績參差不齊，但預計緩解資源將在 2026 年下半年產生利潤，並隨著業務的擴張，隨著時間的推移取得更穩定的業績。

We continue to invest in our businesses to drive future growth. Again, in 2026, we anticipate making significant capital investments. The majority of these planned expenditures relate to business development opportunities, and we will only make those investments if the projects meet our strict investment criteria.

我們將繼續投資我們的業務，以推動未來的成長。預計在 2026 年，我們將進行大量資本投資。這些計劃支出的大部分與業務發展機會有關，只有當項目符合我們嚴格的投資標準時，我們才會進行這些投資。

Overall, I continue to believe we're well positioned for meaningful growth. We are entering 2026 with clear opportunities to build on our 2025 momentum as we execute our growth strategies and create long-term values for our shareholders.

總的來說，我仍然相信我們已經做好了實現有意義成長的充分準備。進入 2026 年，我們擁有明顯的機會，可以鞏固 2025 年的發展勢頭，同時執行成長策略，為股東創造長期價值。

Our approach is rooted in long-term contracts and investments which continue to deliver strong earnings and steady cash flow for compounding annuity-like returns. We executed on this strategy over the past decade and momentum continues to build. I remain confident in our businesses and in our ability to deliver strong 2026 results and continued progress in the years to come.

我們的方法以長期合約和投資為基礎，持續帶來強勁的收益和穩定的現金流，從而實現類似年金的複利回報。過去十年我們一直貫徹執行這項策略，並且勢頭持續增強。我對我們的業務以及我們實現 2026 年強勁業績和未來幾年持續進步的能力充滿信心。

Before I turn the call over to Liz, I'd like to say thank you to all of our employees. Our team delivered strong 2025, fourth quarter and full year earnings, and their hard work and commitment will enable us to continue to deliver in the future. We have an incredibly strong team across the company, and I am proud of the work that they do.

在把電話交給莉茲之前，我想對我們所有的員工表示感謝。我們的團隊在 2025 年、第四季度和全年盈利方面都取得了強勁的成績，他們的辛勤工作和奉獻精神將使我們能夠在未來繼續取得佳績。我們公司擁有一支非常強大的團隊，我為他們的工作感到自豪。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Liz to provide a more detailed view of our financial results and outlook. Liz.

接下來，我將把電話交給 Liz，讓她更詳細地介紹我們的財務表現和展望。莉茲。

Thank you, JC. I'll start with some high level comments about our consolidated fourth quarter financial results compared to 2024. In the 2025 fourth quarter, we generated consolidated gross profit of $12 million an increase of 42% year over year, while our fourth quarter revenues of $66.8 million increased 5%.

謝謝你，JC。首先，我將就我們第四季合併財務表現與 2024 年的比較情況，做一些概括性的評論。2025 年第四季度，我們實現了 1,200 萬美元的合併毛利，年增 42%；而第四季營收為 6,680 萬美元，年增 5%。

We reported consolidated operating profit of $7.6 million up from $3.9 million in 2024, driven by improvements at all three of our reportable segments. These favorable results were partly offset by higher unallocated expenses. Consolidated adjusted EBITDA increased 59% to $14.3 million versus $9 million for the same period last year.

我們公佈的綜合營業利潤為 760 萬美元，高於 2024 年的 390 萬美元，這得益於我們所有三個可報告部門的業績改善。這些利好結果部分被較高的未分配費用所抵銷。調整後的綜合 EBITDA 成長 59% 至 1,430 萬美元，而去年同期為 900 萬美元。

As JC discussed, we completed the termination of our pension plan and as a result recorded a $7.8 million non-cash pension settlement charge, or $6 million after tax. This charge, combined with the fourth quarter true up of tax expense to the full year effective tax rate, resulted in a net loss for the quarter of $3.8 million or $0.52 per share. This compared to net income of $7.6 million or $1.02 per share in 2024.

正如 JC 所討論的，我們完成了退休金計劃的終止，因此記錄了 780 萬美元的非現金退休金結算費用，稅後為 600 萬美元。這項費用，加上第四季度將稅收支出調整為全年實際稅率，導致該季度淨虧損 380 萬美元，即每股虧損 0.52 美元。相比之下，2024 年的淨收入為 760 萬美元，即每股 1.02 美元。

Moving to the individual segments, the utility coal mining segment reported operating profit of $7.2 million in 2025, a significant increase over the $2 million generated in the 2024 fourth quarter. Segment adjusted EBITDA increased to $9.7 million from $4.2 million in the prior year.

從各個業務部門來看，公用事業煤炭開採板塊報告稱，2025 年的營業利潤為 720 萬美元，比 2024 年第四季產生的 200 萬美元大幅成長。分部調整後 EBITDA 從上年的 420 萬美元增加至 970 萬美元。

These year over year improvements were driven by the stronger operating performance at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company that JC discussed. Lower general and administrative employee-related expenses also contributed to the higher segment operating profit.

JC 提到的密西西比褐煤礦業公司營運表現的強勁成長，推動了這些年比改善。一般及行政人員相關費用降低也促成了該部門營業利潤的提高。

Looking ahead, we expect an increase in operating profit in 2026 compared with 2025. Improvements at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company as a result of an increase in the contractually determined per ton sales price are expected to be partly offset by lower earnings at the unconsolidated mining operations.

展望未來，我們預計 2026 年的營業利潤將比 2025 年成長。由於合約確定的每噸銷售價格上漲，密西西比褐煤礦業公司業績有所改善，但預計未合併採礦業務的收益下降將部分抵消這些改善。

The lower unconsolidated mining earnings are due to reduced income at the Sabine Mining Company associated with the wind down of reclamation services. In the contract mining segment, revenues, net of reimbursement costs grew 9% over the prior year, primarily driven by higher part sales, partly offset by increased volumes of lower price to.

未合併的礦業收益較低，是因為薩賓礦業公司因停止復墾服務而導致收入減少。在合約採礦領域，扣除補償成本後的收入比上年增長了 9%，主要得益於零件銷售額的增長，但部分被低價產品銷售的增加所抵消。

Operating profit of $900,000 and segment adjusted EBITDA of $3.3 million were comparable to the prior prior year. Improved margins at the mining operations and an increase in part sales were offset by a $1.1 million loss contingency and lower related employee-related expenses. The loss contingency is related to costs associated with the incident JC discussed previously.

營業利潤為 90 萬美元，分部調整後 EBITDA 為 330 萬美元，與去年同期相比相當。採礦業務利潤率的提高和零件銷售額的成長被 110 萬美元的損失準備金和相關員工費用的降低所抵消。損失準備金與先前討論過的JC事件相關的成本有關。

Looking forward, higher customer demand, earnings contributions from new contracts, and continued momentum from 2025 activities are expected to lead to a significant year over year increase in results in 2026.

展望未來，更高的客戶需求、新合約帶來的收益貢獻以及 2025 年活動的持續動能預計將使 2026 年的業績比上年大幅成長。

The minerals and royalty segment delivered year over year growth in revenues, operating profit, and segment adjusted EBITDA due to increased royalty revenues driven by improved natural gas pricing and increased production volumes.

由於天然氣價格上漲和產量增加帶動特許權使用費收入增長，礦產和特許權使用費業務板塊的收入、營業利潤和板塊調整後 EBITDA 均實現了同比增長。

These benefits were partly offset by lower royalty oil revenues resulting from reduced oil prices and volumes. Lower employee related expenses and higher earnings from an equity investment also contributed to the year over year profit improvement.

由於石油價格和產量下降，導致石油特許權使用費收入減少，部分抵消了上述收益。員工相關費用降低和股權投資收益增加也促成了利潤逐年增長。

At the minerals and royalties segment, newer investments are expected to contribute favorably to 2026 results. However, commodity price forecasts, as well as development and production assumptions, are expected to result in an overall year over year decrease in operating profit and segment adjusted EBITDA, particularly in the second half of the year.

在礦產和特許權使用費領域，預計新的投資將對 2026 年的業績做出積極貢獻。然而，商品價格預測以及開發和生產假設預計將導致營業利潤和分部調整後的 EBITDA 同比整體下降，尤其是在下半年。

It is important to note that our forecast was developed prior to the recent developments in the Middle East. Any significant changes in commodity prices or production as a result of this conflict could change our expectations for 2026.

值得注意的是，我們的預測是在中東近期局勢發展之前製定的。此次衝突可能導致大宗商品價格或產量發生任何重大變化，從而改變我們對 2026 年的預期。

Overall, we anticipate meaningful year over year improvements in consolidated operating profit, net income, and EBITDA in 2026.

整體而言，我們預計 2026 年合併營業利潤、淨收入和 EBITDA 將逐年顯著改善。

Turning to our liquidity for the 2025 full year, we generated cash from operations of $50.9 million compared to $22.3 million in 2024. At December 30, we had outstanding debt of $100.9 million, up modestly from $99.5 million at December 31, 2024.

展望 2025 年全年流動性，我們透過經營活動產生的現金為 5,090 萬美元，而 2024 年為 2,230 萬美元。截至 12 月 30 日，我們的未償債務為 1.009 億美元，比 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 9,950 萬美元略有增加。

Our total liquidity was $124.2 million which consisted of $49.7 million of cash and $74.5 million of availability under our revolving credit facility. As a result of the anticipated capital investments in 2026, we expect the use of cash before financing greater than in 2025.

我們的總流動資金為 1.242 億美元，其中包括 4,970 萬美元現金和 7,450 萬美元循環信貸額度。由於預計 2026 年將進行資本投資，我們預計融資前的現金使用量將大於 2025 年。

With that, I'll turn the call back to JC for closing remarks.

接下來，我將把電話轉回給JC，請他作總結發言。

Thanks, Liz. Thanks, Liz. To wrap up, I remain confident in our trajectory and long-term opportunities. Our businesses provide critical inputs for many industries. As the need for uninterrupted energy grows, industry fundamentals for natural resources are expected to continue to strengthen, reinforcing the critical need to keep existing reliable baseload resources online. In 2026, the National Coal Council, which is an advisory committee to the US Secretary of Energy, was reestablished.

謝謝你，莉茲。謝謝你，莉茲。總而言之，我對我們的發展方向和長期機會依然充滿信心。我們的業務為許多行業提供關鍵投入。隨著對不間斷能源的需求不斷增長，自然資源產業的基本面預計將繼續增強，從而更加凸顯了保持現有可靠基荷資源在線上運作的關鍵必要性。2026年，作為美國能源部長顧問委員會的國家煤炭委員會重新成立。

This council is focused on advising the Department of Energy on reinforcing coal's strategic role in US energy policy and providing actionable advice on sustaining coal plant operations and prioritizing coal to support grid reliability, which supports our country's economic competitiveness and national security.

該委員會致力於向能源部提供建議，以加強煤炭在美國能源政策中的戰略作用，並就維持煤電廠運營和優先發展煤炭以支持電網可靠性提供切實可行的建議，從而支持我國的經濟競爭力和國家安全。

The re-establishment of this council and the underlying improving regulatory environment reinforced my confidence in our prospects for 2026, as well as our overall business trajectory and longer-term growth opportunities.

該委員會的重新成立以及監管環境的不斷改善，增強了我對我們 2026 年前景、整體業務發展軌跡和長期成長機會的信心。

The building blocks for durable compounding growth at NACO are firmly in place. Our team is focused on execution, operational discipline, and delivering long-term returns for shareholders. We'll now turn the call over to any questions you may have.

NACO實現持久複合成長的基礎已穩固到位。我們的團隊專注於執行、營運紀律，並為股東帶來長期回報。現在我們將把通話交給各位，回答你們的任何問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Douglas Weiss, DSW Investments.

道格拉斯·韋斯，DSW投資公司。

Hey, good morning. Good morning. I guess starting with the coal division, can you quantify how much, the step down in Sabine work is?

嘿，早安。早安.我想先從煤炭部門說起，你能量化一下薩賓公司的工作降級幅度有多大嗎？

We have not quantified that number.

我們尚未量化該數字。

Okay. But I mean--?

好的。但我的意思是──？

Doug, what I would say, Doug, I think what I'd say is, when the plant, when the mine and the plant were operating and we're delivering coal, that was the highest level of income that we received from Sabine as we stepped down into reclamation, that, appropriately because, we're scaling down the amount of work that that fee was reduced as we exit that. You know that situation, it'll, that's when it goes away. So it's not, I just want you to know that it's not going from like full bore production level which we had, a couple of years ago to zero. It's stepping down from a lower level.

道格，我想說的是，當工廠還在運營，煤礦和工廠都在運轉，我們向薩賓公司輸送煤炭的時候，那是我們從薩賓公司獲得的最高收入。隨著我們逐步減少工作量，這筆費用也跟著減少了。你知道那種情況，它就會，就是在那種情況下它消失的時候。所以，我只是想讓你們知道，產量不會從幾年前的全力生產水準驟降至零。這是從較低級降級而來。

Right, okay, and at the same time you get your price, index goes up. This year, right?

好的，同時，你的價格上漲了，指數也上漲了。今年吧？

Yeah, you're speaking at, Red Hills at Mississippi Ignite Mining Company that yes, we believe, it's based on what happens to indices, month to month, but we believe that we're going to see an increase in price during the course of the year.

是的，您是在密西西比紅山點燃礦業公司發言，我們相信，這取決於指數的月度走勢，但我們相信，今年價格將會上漲。

Okay. And does that flowing, is that weighted towards one, is there a seasonal element to that when that really starts to, benefit you?

好的。這種流動，這種流動是否偏向某一特定時期，是否有季節性因素，以及何時才能真正對你有利？

It's a formula that compares current prices for relevant indices to prior indices, so you know it's tracking movements over a 1 and 5 year period and so you know just as we look at what was happening.

這是一個將相關指數的當前價格與先前指數進行比較的公式，因此你知道它跟踪的是 1 年和 5 年期間的走勢，因此你知道，就像我們查看過去發生的事情一樣。

In the prior periods and what our expectations are in the future periods, we're able to, develop a forecast. There's not really a seasonal component to price. However, there is generally a seasonal component to deliveries, in, particularly in the South, power plants operate at their heaviest level in the winter when it's cold, in the summer when it's hot, and the shoulder seasons typically don't operate at the same high level.

根據以往時期的情況以及我們對未來時期的預期，我們能夠做出預測。價格其實沒有季節性因素。然而，電力傳輸通常具有季節性因素，尤其是在南方，發電廠在冬季寒冷時、夏季炎熱時運行負載最大，而過渡季節的運行負載通常不會那麼高。

Okay, yeah, I, so seasonal was a bad choice of words. I really just meant when in the year do you really start to see the benefit from, that index reset.

好吧，是的，用「季節性」這個詞確實不太恰當。我其實只是想問，一年中的什麼時候才能真正開始看到指數重置帶來的好處。

Yeah, it's really just going to depend on how the indices play out over time. I think we've mentioned before that, petroleum, is represented in the basket of indices, and, who knows how that's going to play out with what's going on in the Middle East, very difficult to forecast that at this time. Obviously, when we developed our forecast, we didn't know that this Middle East situation was going to develop.

是的，這真的取決於這些指數隨時間推移的走勢。我想我們之前已經提到過，石油是指數籃子中的組成部分，但誰知道中東局勢會如何發展，目前很難預測。顯然，我們在製定預測時，並不知道中東局勢會發展到今天這種程度。

I see. I mean, could that create kind of a windfall situation given the spike in in oil prices?

我懂了。我的意思是，考慮到油價飆升，這會不會造成某種意外之財？

I mean, look, I think we could play out lots of scenarios. I think you could say spikes in, various, things are going to drive the price up, but, we can also see, things happen in the market that cause some of those indices to drop as well.

我的意思是，你看，我認為我們可以設想很多場景。我認為可以說，各種因素的激增會推高價格，但我們也可以看到，市場上發生的一些事情也會導致某些指數下跌。

So I think it's really hard, to forecast, I mean. Every day you pick up the Wall Street Journal and you can read even even in just one newspaper various views of how this might play out with respect to controlling prices and inflation and interest rates and all the other stuff.

所以我覺得預測真的很難。每天你拿起一份《華爾街日報》，即使只看這份報紙，你也能讀到關於如何控制物價、通貨膨脹、利率以及其他所有相關問題的各種觀點。

Well, and I had understood from your previous comments that it wasn't actually the wholesale petroleum price, it was more of the diesel price at the pump is that true or did I misunderstand there?

嗯，我從你之前的評論中了解到，這實際上不是石油批發價格，而是加油站的柴油價格，是這樣嗎？還是我理解錯了？

So all the price is based on published indices so it's not like it's not like we drive by the local gas station and see what diesel's selling for it's the nationally, federally published indices.

所以所有價格都是基於已公佈的指數，而不是像我們開車經過當地加油站看到柴油售價那樣，而是基於全國聯邦政府公佈的指數。

Okay, all right, well, I got you, I guess, moving on to, contract mining. How large is the -- not I know you probably don't want to quantify it, but just relative to a typical contract is the, Army Corps of Engineers contract.

好的，好吧，我明白了，接下來我們來談談合約挖礦。這份合約有多大？ ——我知道你可能不想量化它，但相對於一份典型的合約而言，陸軍工程兵團的合約有多大？

It's a it's a significant contract we're very excited about the opportunity as as you know we mentioned it's an opportunity for us to apply our skills in a in a new market instead of, mining aggregates they're going to be used in either in a cement plant or sold as crushed aggregates or sand or gravel, this is an opportunity to go use our skills for infrastructure projects, so it's a pretty sizable project for us and we're excited about the new opportunity in the partnership.

這是一份意義重大的合同，我們對這個機會感到非常興奮。如你所知，我們之前提到過，這是一個讓我們有機會在新市場應用自身技能的機會，而不是像以前那樣開採骨材。這些骨材要么用於水泥廠，要么作為碎骨料、沙子或礫石出售。這是一個讓我們有機會將自身技能應用於基礎設施專案的機會。因此，這對我們來說是一個相當大的項目，我們對此次合作帶來的新機會感到興奮。

And what's the timing of that in terms of when that starts and when it gets up to full production.

那麼，從何時開始，到何時全面投產，具體時間安排是怎麼樣的呢？

We're already ramping up production. I don't actually know when it gets to full production. Liz, do you know that?

我們已經開始提高產量。我其實不知道它什麼時候才能全面投產。莉茲，你知道嗎？

I think it's going to depend a little bit on the timing of getting the additional dragline session, so, but it will ramp up throughout this year.

我認為這在一定程度上取決於何時能獲得額外的挖土機作業機會，但今年全年都會逐步增加。

Yeah, it's going to ramp up throughout the year and. You know it'll be full steam ahead. One of the things that I find interesting about this project and I think we all, are encouraged or excited by this feature is, this is not a contract where we're delivering aggregates, we're mining aggregates for a customer that's responding to customer demand.

是的，這種情況會在今年逐漸加劇。你知道它會全速前進。我覺得這個專案最有趣的一點，也是我們所有人都會受到鼓舞或興奮的一點是，這不是一份交付聚合體的合同，而是為響應客戶需求的客戶挖掘聚合體。

This is a contract where we've been asked to go in and move X amount of material and obviously we have to work in coordination with our customer to do that, but this isn't a contract that's got any exposure to market forces, so you know I think it's a it's a pretty predictable a nice contract for us.

這是一份合同，要求我們進入現場搬運 X 數量的物料，顯然我們需要與客戶協調合作才能完成這項工作，但這份合同不受市場力量的影響，所以我認為這對我們來說是一份相當可預測的好合同。

Yeah, do you think there's an opportunity to add more business like that?

是的，你認為還有機會增加更多類似的業務嗎？

Well, we don't know, but I think we hope so.

我們不知道，但我想我們都希望如此。

Yeah. Okay, and how about Phoenix, how substantial is that, new business?

是的。好的，那麼鳳凰城的情況如何？那裡的新業務規模有多大？

I mean that's a that also is a nice contract it's a sizable dragline that we've moved out there as you know Phoenix is just exploding with growth so it seems like you know lots of lots of potential there.

我的意思是，那也是一份不錯的合同，我們把一台相當大的挖掘機搬到了那裡，你知道，菲尼克斯正在經歷爆炸式增長，所以那裡似乎有很多潛力。

Okay, interesting. You gave your capital targets, your capital expense targets. I guess two questions on that. Well, I guess I'll start just I'll break them up on the first one, is it reasonable to think that that capital will be allocated in a manner similar to, 2025 in terms of the divisional breakout?

好的，有意思。你們已經給了資本目標和資本支出目標。我想就此問兩個問題。好吧，我想我就從第一個開始，把它們拆解開來。認為這筆資金的分配方式與 2025 年的部門劃分方式類似，這種想法合理嗎？

You mean like the pie chart of CapEx?

你是說像資本支出圓餅圖那樣的圖表嗎？

Yeah, like how much is going to mining and how much is going to oil and gas and.

是啊，例如有多少用於採礦，有多少用於石油和天然氣等等。

Well, I mean, I guess I'd break that down by saying, we, I mean, we're really clear that we budget $20 million of investment capital for our minimal minerals business and you know there's nothing saying that we have to spend that $20 million it's just what we put in our budget so we spend $20 million and if we do great if we don't that's okay too we're only going to spend it if we find the right project so that's kind of a fixed number generally you know the total of that we we published is a pretty big number and we said a.

嗯，我的意思是，我想我可以這樣解釋：我們非常明確地為我們的礦產業務預算了 2000 萬美元的投資資本，你知道，並沒有規定我們必須花掉這 2000 萬美元，這只是我們預算中的金額。如果我們成功了，那當然很好；如果失敗了，也沒關係。我們只會在找到合適的項目時才會動用這筆錢。所以這基本上是一個固定的數字。你知道，我們公佈的總額是一個相當大的數字，我們說過…

We said that the the majority of what we're going to spend is respect to with respect to growth, so I think it really determines how those opportunities play out. I think we do disclose a breakout in the 10-K. Liz can probably here point us to that in a second, but, ultimately this is going to depend on what opportunities do we really find. If you're talking about our forecast, it's in the 10-K. If you want to talk about where does it actually get spent.

我們說過，我們大部分的支出都將用於成長，所以我認為這確實決定了這些機會最終會如何發展。我認為我們會在 10-K 文件中披露突破性進展。莉茲可能馬上就告訴我們答案，但最終這取決於我們真正能找到哪些機會。如果你說的是我們的預測，那它在 10-K 中。如果你想談談這些錢實際上花到哪裡去了。

And it really is dependent upon what projects we find and which ones, meet our investment criteria. I think we've been really clear about how we think about deploying capital and if we don't meet our, investment criteria, then we just don't invest.

這實際上取決於我們能找到哪些項目，以及哪些項目符合我們的投資標準。我認為我們已經非常明確地闡述了我們如何考慮資本部署，如果不符合我們的投資標準，我們就不會投資。

Right, so in terms--?

好的，那麼就……而言？

Sorry, go ahead.

抱歉，請繼續。

So I was going to say you can find the breakout in the 10-K in our MD&A where we have a discussion of 5 actual and 2026 plan CapEx.

所以我想說的是，你可以在我們的 MD&A 報告的 10-K 文件中找到相關細分數據，其中我們討論了 5 年的實際資本支出和 2026 年計劃資本支出。

Okay, great, in terms of, The Army Corps of Engineer work and the Phoenix work, I mean that that capital is already been spent, right? So this would be capital for new contracts, is that right?

好的，很好，就陸軍工程兵團的工作和鳳凰城計畫而言，我的意思是，這些資金已經花掉了，對吧？所以這筆資金將用於簽訂新合同，對嗎？

There is some additional capital for the Army Corps of Engineers project that's going to end up being a 3 dragline project and so we're still, getting the. The final draglines commissioned in order to construct it and commissioned in order to do that project.

陸軍工程兵團的項目還有一些額外的資金，該項目最終將是一個3台挖掘機的項目，所以我們仍在獲得資金。最後委託建造的挖土機是為了完成這個計畫。

Would you be able to say about how much is left on that that project?

您能否透露一下該專案還剩下多少工作量？

We haven't disclosed that. I mean, it's included what we spend in 2026 is included in the $36 million we have for the contract mining segment.

我們尚未披露此事。我的意思是，這其中包含了我們在 2026 年的支出，也就是我們為合約採礦領域準備的 3,600 萬美元。

So it's so the number's in the $36 million.

所以，這個數字是 3600 萬美元。

Yeah, okay. I guess in terms of allocating to the minerals, segment, does Iger give you a good, you, do you have, an opportunity to continue to invest capital in that operation? Is that an attractive use of your capital, as they expand?

好的。我想，就礦產板塊的配置而言，Iger 是否給了你一個好的機會，讓你繼續投資該業務？隨著公司擴張，這種資金利用方式是否吸引人？

Well, I mean, a couple pieces that we think it's a very attractive use of our capital. That's why we, invested, an additional amount in their operations. I think, and we're very enthusiastic about the investments that we've made with them. I think it's a great, piece of our minerals and royalties platform.

嗯，我的意思是，我們認為有幾件東西非常值得我們投入資金。這就是為什麼我們向他們的營運追加了投資的原因。我認為，我們對與他們進行的投資感到非常興奮。我認為這是我們礦產和特許權使用費平台的重要組成部分。

The work that they're doing I think is for the most part funded, so I don't want, I don't know that there would be additional opportunities to invest, but I also think, we want to pay attention to diversifying our investments, the whole premise of Catapult is our mineral segments we started with a highly concentrated investment in Appalachian natural gas assets.

我認為他們所做的工作大部分都有資金支持，所以我不想，也不知道是否還有其他投資機會，但我也認為，我們應該專注於投資多元化，Catapult 的整個前提是我們的礦產業務，我們最初對阿巴拉契亞天然氣資產的投資非常集中。

And then the goal here is diversify into other basins and other minerals. Is a piece of that. Taking more I think, is more concentration as opposed to more diversification, which is our primary goal. Now I'm not going to rule out that we'd ever invest more in but I'd say generally we're more in line. We're more likely to end up, investing in mineral and royalty interests like we have in the past.

然後，我們的目標是將業務多元化拓展到其他盆地和其他礦產領域。這是其中的一部分。我認為，增加投資意味著更集中精力，而不是更分散投資，而分散投資才是我們的主要目標。我不會排除未來增加投資的可能性，但總的來說，我們的投資力道已經比較適中了。我們很可能會像過去一樣，最終投資於礦產和特許權權益。

Okay. If you hit that capital target, my guess is you're going to be somewhat cash negative for the year. Do you have a leverage level where you feel, where you get uncomfortable or where you're willing to go up to?

好的。如果你達到了那個資本目標，我估計你今年的現金流可能會是負數。你是否有感到不舒服或願意提升的底線？

Well, I don't ever want to get to a level where I start to feel uncomfortable, we talk often about our, desire to have a conservative financial structure, as we've discussed, we've been through a period of investing in all these businesses and we believe that we're in a, we're entering a period of significant harvest, in a, investment harvest business model.

嗯，我永遠不想達到讓我感到不舒服的程度。我們經常談到我們希望擁有保守的財務結構。正如我們所討論的，我們已經經歷了一段投資於所有這些企業的時期，我們相信我們正處於一個重要的收穫期，在一個投資收穫的商業模式中。

So one, we don't know whether we're going to spend the entire $89 million and $0.02 -- excuse me, and $2 million, we're going to watch our level of harvest that's going on during the year, and we will certainly manage, in an appropriate way so that we don't ever get to a point where we're having a call and I'm like, yeah, I'm a little uncomfortable with where we are in our leverage. I don't want to get there.

所以，首先，我們不知道是否會花掉全部的 8900 萬美元和 20 萬美元——抱歉，是 200 萬美元，我們會密切關註今年的收成情況，並且一定會以適當的方式進行管理，這樣我們就不會走到需要打電話諮詢，而我卻覺得“是的，我對我們目前的槓桿水平有點不放心”的地步。我不想去那裡。

Yeah, okay, I guess last question from you is just on mitigation resources, so is most of the revenue in the unallocated line, is that mostly mitigation resources? And how are you feeling about that business in terms of growth and, I saw that you said it would be profitable at the end of the year. Is that something you expect to continue go forward into next year?

好的，我想你最後一個問題是關於緩解資源的，那麼未分配收入的大部分是否都用於緩解資源？您對這項業務的成長有何看法？我看到您說過它將在年底實現盈利。你預計這種情況會延續到明年嗎？

Yeah, yes, we expect it to, reach profitability and grow from there. The mitigation banks, there's two parts of that business. One is the mitigation banking business. Speaking of invest and then harvest, we've identified properties in high growth areas.

是的，我們預計它會實現盈利，並在此基礎上發展壯大。風險緩解銀行的業務分為兩個部分。其中之一是風險緩解銀行業務。說到投資和收穫，我們已經在高成長地區找到了合適的房產。

In some instances we'll acquire property with opportunity to improve the streams and or wetlands on that property.

在某些情況下，我們會收購一些房產，並有機會改善該房產上的溪流和/或濕地。

And you know you get permits approved with the Army Corps of Engineers and then there's basically a 10 year process where we do work and that would involve improving the streams and or wetlands and then monitoring and you receive credits we know up front how many credits we're going to get and the mitigation banks that we've already got in place.

你知道，你需要獲得美國陸軍工程兵團的許可，然後基本上會有一個為期 10 年的過程，在此期間我們會開展工作，包括改善溪流和/或濕地，然後進行監測，你會獲得積分。我們事先就知道我們會獲得多少積分，以及我們已經建立的補償庫。

Have a very large value of credits that are going to be released from them over time so we've got a pretty good horizon on the on the we call it credit inventory that we will be able to sell in the future from our our just our existing credits that you know that's all subject to timing because obviously you've got to get through the Army Corps of Engineers upfront permitting process.

隨著時間的推移，我們將從他們那裡釋放大量信用額度，因此我們對所謂的信用額度庫存有一個相當不錯的預期，我們將來可以出售我們現有的信用額度，但這一切都取決於時機，因為顯然你必須通過美國陸軍工程兵團的前期許可程序。

Then you've got milestones that we need to hit with the work that we're doing. We're confident that we can be successful with that, but then you've also got, what are customer projects? What's their timing look like? When do they get their Army Corps permits, and how does their development proceed?

然後，我們需要透過我們正在進行的工作達成一些里程碑。我們有信心能夠成功，但是，客戶專案又是什麼呢？他們的日程安排是怎樣的？他們何時獲得陸軍工程兵團的許可，他們的開發案是如何進行的？

So we think all of this is moving in a positive direction and will continue to do so in the future and all of that gets mixed in with shorter term reclamation and restoration projects. You know that we've we're finding really nice success in that part of the business, so you blend those two together and we think this business is on a really nice trajectory that'll really start taking hold later this year.

所以我們認為這一切都在朝著積極的方向發展，並且將來也會繼續如此，所有這些都與短期的修復和重建項目相結合。你知道，我們在這個業務領域取得了非常不錯的成功，所以將這兩者結合起來，我們認為這項業務正處於一個非常好的發展軌道上，並將在今年晚些時候真正開始站穩腳跟。

Okay, great. Well, nice quarter, and glad to see things continue to go well overall and, so thanks, thank you for your hard work and for taking my questions.

好的，太好了。嗯，這個季度過得不錯，很高興看到整體進展順利，所以非常感謝你的辛勤工作，也謝謝你回答我的問題。

Great. Doug, we always appreciate your questions. Thank you for your interest.

偉大的。道格，我們一直都很感謝你的提問。感謝您的關注。

And with no further questions, thank you, I will now hand the call back over to JC for closing remarks.

大家沒有其他問題了，謝謝。現在我將把電話交還給JC，請他做總結發言。

This is Christy. With that, I'll conclude our Q&A session. Before we conclude, I'd like to provide a few reminders. A replay of our call will be available online later this morning. We'll also post a transcript on the investor relations website when it becomes available. If you have any questions, please reach out to me. My phone number is in the press release. I hope you enjoy the rest of your day, and I'll now turn the call back to Tina to conclude.

這是克里斯蒂。問答環節到此結束。在結束之前，我想提醒大家幾點。今天上午晚些時候，我們將在網上提供電話會議的錄音回放。我們會將會議記錄發佈在投資者關係網站上，待發布後即可查看。如有任何疑問，請與我聯絡。我的電話號碼在新聞稿裡。希望您今天剩下的時間過得愉快，現在我把電話轉回給蒂娜，讓她來結束今天的通話。

An audio recording of the event will be available via the Echo replay platform. The Echo replay will expire on Thursday, 12th, March 2026 at 11:59 PM. This does conclude today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

本次活動的錄音將透過 Echo 回放平台提供。Echo 的重播將於 2026 年 3 月 12 日星期四晚上 11:59 過期。今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線了。