NACCO Industries Inc (NC) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the NACCO Industries Q4 2022 Earnings Conference Call. My name is Lauren, and I will be coordinating your call today. (Operator Instructions) I will now hand you over to your host, Christina Kmetko to begin. Christina, please go ahead.

您好，歡迎來到 NACCO Industries 2022 年第四季度收益電話會議。我叫勞倫，今天我將負責協調您的來電。 （操作員說明）我現在將您交給您的主持人 Christina Kmetko 開始。克里斯蒂娜，請繼續。

Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our 2022 fourth quarter and full year earnings call. Thank you for joining us this morning. I am Christina Kmetko, and I am responsible for Investor Relations at NACCO Industries. Joining me today are J.C. Butler, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Elizabeth Loveman, Vice President and Controller.

謝謝。大家早上好，歡迎來到我們的 2022 年第四季度和全年財報電話會議。感謝您今天早上加入我們。我是 Christina Kmetko，負責 NACCO Industries 的投資者關係。今天加入我的是總裁兼首席執行官 J.C. Butler；和伊麗莎白洛夫曼，副總裁兼財務總監。

Yesterday, we published our 2022 fourth quarter and full year results and filed our 10-K. This information is available on our website. Today's call is also being webcast. The webcast will be on our website later this afternoon and available for approximately 12 months. Our remarks that follow, including answers to your questions, could contain forward-looking statements. These statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed in the forward-looking statements made here today. These risks include, among others, matters that we have described in our earnings release issued last night and in our 10-K and other filings with the SEC. We disclaim any obligation to update these forward-looking statements, which may not be updated until our next quarterly earnings conference call, if at all.

昨天，我們發布了 2022 年第四季度和全年業績，並提交了 10-K。此信息可在我們的網站上找到。今天的電話會議也在網絡直播中。網絡廣播將於今天下午晚些時候在我們的網站上播出，持續大約 12 個月。我們隨後的評論，包括對您問題的回答，可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些陳述受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果與今天在這裡發表的前瞻性陳述中表達的結果存在重大差異。這些風險包括我們在昨晚發布的收益報告以及我們的 10-K 和其他提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中描述的事項。我們不承擔任何更新這些前瞻性陳述的義務，這些陳述可能要到我們下一次季度收益電話會議才會更新（如果有的話）。

In addition, we will be discussing non-GAAP information that we believe is useful in evaluating the company's operating performance. Reconciliations for these non-GAAP measures can be found in our earnings release and on our website. In a moment, I will discuss our results for the quarter.

此外，我們將討論我們認為對評估公司經營業績有用的非 GAAP 信息。這些非 GAAP 措施的調節可以在我們的收益發布和我們的網站上找到。稍後，我將討論我們本季度的業績。

But first, let me turn the call over to our President and CEO, J.C. Butler, for some opening remarks. J.C.?

但首先，讓我將電話轉給我們的總裁兼首席執行官 J.C. Butler，請他發表一些開場白。 J.C.？

Thank you, Christy, and good morning, everyone. I'm very pleased to report that our company once again delivered strong results, generating much higher operating profit, net income and adjusted EBITDA in the 2022 fourth quarter and full year than in the 2021 fourth quarter and full year. Christy will go into more detail about our fourth quarter earnings and provide an overview of our outlook in a minute. But first, let me provide some highlights for the year. Our strong full year operating results were led by our Minerals Management segment, which more than doubled its operating profit and adjusted EBITDA from 2021. These improvements were driven by substantially higher natural gas and oil prices as well as production volume from more recently acquired mineral interest and increased production from legacy mineral interest.

謝謝克里斯蒂，大家早上好。我很高興地報告，我們公司再次取得強勁業績，2022 年第四季度和全年的營業利潤、淨收入和調整後 EBITDA 比 2021 年第四季度和全年高得多。克里斯蒂將更詳細地介紹我們第四季度的收益，並在一分鐘內概述我們的前景。但首先，讓我介紹一下今年的一些亮點。我們強勁的全年經營業績由我們的礦產管理部門引領，從 2021 年起，該部門的營業利潤和調整後的 EBITDA 翻了一番以上。這些改善是由天然氣和石油價格大幅上漲以及最近收購的礦產權益的產量推動的並增加了遺留礦產權益的產量。

Our team at Catapult Mineral Partners continues to look for opportunities to expand our portfolio of mineral and royalty interest through acquisitions, while also promoting development of our existing interests. The team acquired approximately $12 million of additional mineral and royalty interest in 2022 and is targeting additional investments of up to $20 million in 2023.

我們在 Catapult Mineral Partners 的團隊繼續尋找機會，通過收購擴大我們的礦產和特許權權益組合，同時促進我們現有權益的發展。該團隊在 2022 年獲得了大約 1200 萬美元的額外礦產和特許權使用費權益，併計劃在 2023 年進行高達 2000 萬美元的額外投資。

Our 2023 forecast for the Minerals Management segment assumes oil and gas prices -- market prices moderate to levels in line with 2021 averages. However, as we witnessed in 2022, commodity prices are inherently volatile and changes in natural gas and oil prices could result in adjustments to our current forecast. On the upside, the development of additional wells on existing reserves beyond our forecast or future acquisitions could be accretive to our future results.

我們對礦產管理部門 2023 年的預測假設石油和天然氣價格——市場價格溫和至與 2021 年平均水平一致的水平。然而，正如我們在 2022 年所看到的那樣，大宗商品價格本質上是波動的，天然氣和石油價格的變化可能會導致我們調整當前的預測。從好的方面來看，超出我們預測或未來收購的現有儲量的額外油井開發可能會增加我們未來的業績。

At our Coal Mining segment, a big highlight of 2022 was Rainbow Energy's purchase in Coal Creek Station from Great River Energy. We are very enthusiastic about our new relationship with Rainbow. With this transaction, our Falkirk Mine gained a new customer, and we recognized $30.9 million of pretax contract termination settlement income. This settlement included a cash payment of $14 million, the transfer of ownership of an office building and the conveyance of membership units in Midwest AgEnergy Group. Midwest AgEnergy was acquired by a third party in December, and we received a cash payment of $18.6 million for our ownership position.

在我們的煤炭開採部門，2022 年的一大亮點是 Rainbow Energy 從 Great River Energy 手中收購了 Coal Creek Station。我們對與 Rainbow 的新關係充滿熱情。通過此次交易，我們的 Falkirk 礦獲得了一個新客戶，我們確認了 3090 萬美元的稅前合同終止結算收入。該和解包括 1400 萬美元的現金支付、辦公樓所有權的轉讓以及 Midwest AgEnergy Group 成員單位的轉讓。 Midwest AgEnergy 於 12 月被第三方收購，我們收到了 1860 萬美元的現金付款以換取我們的所有權。

While the transfer of Coal Creek Station was very positive for our Coal Mining segment, a decision made by another customer is not so encouraging. The owner of the power plant served by our Sabine Mine in East Texas plant to retire the fleet -- retire the plant. If that happens, we will stop delivering coal as of April 1, just a few short weeks away and final mine reclamation will commence. Sabine will receive compensation for providing final mine reclamation services, but that annual income will be less than our income during active mining. Despite the planned closure of Sabine's power plant and the ongoing political and regulatory challenges the coal mining industry faces, we continue to believe the use of coal as a fuel source for reliable electricity in the United States will continue for the foreseeable future.

雖然 Coal Creek Station 的轉讓對我們的煤炭開採部門非常有利，但另一位客戶做出的決定並不那麼令人鼓舞。由我們位於德克薩斯州東部的 Sabine Mine 工廠服務的發電廠的所有者退休車隊——退休工廠。如果發生這種情況，我們將從 4 月 1 日起停止運送煤炭，再過短短幾週，最後的礦山復墾將開始。 Sabine 將因提供最終的礦山復墾服務而獲得補償，但年收入將低於我們在活躍採礦期間的收入。儘管計劃關閉 Sabine 的發電廠，並且煤炭開採行業面臨持續的政治和監管挑戰，但我們仍然相信，在可預見的未來，美國將繼續使用煤炭作為可靠電力的燃料來源。

Shifting to our North American Mining segment, our full year operating profit did not meet our expectations. We're working on initiatives designed to support the return to profitability. During 2022, we conducted a thorough review of each North American mining quarry operation to identify areas that are not meeting expectations. We are implementing changes that should drive future improvements in financial results.

轉向我們的北美礦業部門，我們全年的營業利潤沒有達到我們的預期。我們正在製定旨在支持恢復盈利能力的舉措。 2022 年期間，我們對每個北美採石場運營進行了徹底審查，以確定未達到預期的區域。我們正在實施變革，以推動未來財務業績的改善。

Until profit improves, North American Mining has narrowed its business development efforts. On a positive note, Lithium Americas continues to make progress on the Thacker Pass project. Our Sawtooth Mining subsidiary is exclusive contract miner for this major U.S. lithium project and Sawtooth as part of our North American Mining segment.

在利潤改善之前，North American Mining 已經縮小了其業務發展力度。從積極的方面來看，Lithium Americas 繼續在 Thacker Pass 項目上取得進展。我們的 Sawtooth Mining 子公司是這個主要美國鋰項目和 Sawtooth 的獨家合同礦商，是我們北美礦業部門的一部分。

In January, General Motors announced that they will invest $650 million in Thacker Pass project. It's our understanding that this agreement with GM is a major milestone and moving Thacker Pass towards production. And in fact, on March 2, Lithium Americas announced that construction has started. Phase 1 production is projected to begin in the second half of 2026. We plan to begin acquiring equipment for this project in 2023.

今年 1 月，通用汽車宣布將向 Thacker Pass 項目投資 6.5 億美元。據我們了解，與通用汽車達成的這項協議是一個重要的里程碑，它將 Thacker Pass 推向生產。事實上，在 3 月 2 日，Lithium Americas 宣佈建設已經開始。一期生產預計將於 2026 年下半年開始。我們計劃在 2023 年開始為該項目採購設備。

While this project isn't expected to result in significant income generation until production commences, this is an important step forward in what is expected to be a key project for domestic lithium production. The Mitigation Resources of North America team continues to advance work on existing mitigation projects and build on a substantial foundation is established over the past several years. Mitigation Resources established 2 new stream mitigation banks near Dallas and Nashville in 2022 and was recently named a designated provider of abandoned mine land restoration in the state of Texas. Mitigation Resources are making strong progress towards its goal of becoming a top 10 provider of stream and wetland mitigation services in the Southeastern United States.

雖然該項目預計在投產前不會產生可觀的收入，但這是朝著有望成為國內鋰生產的關鍵項目邁出的重要一步。北美團隊的緩解資源繼續推進現有緩解項目的工作，並在過去幾年建立的堅實基礎上進行建設。 Mitigation Resources 於 2022 年在達拉斯和納什維爾附近建立了 2 個新的溪流緩解銀行，最近被指定為德克薩斯州廢棄礦山土地恢復的指定提供商。 Mitigation Resources 正在朝著成為美國東南部溪流和濕地緩解服務前 10 大供應商的目標邁進。

Overall, I'm very pleased with the way all of these businesses are advancing their strategies, including efforts to protect our coal mining business. Before I turn the call back to Christy, I'd like to recognize that our strong '22 results remain possible by our great team of employees. Their hard work and tremendous passion for our business continues to propel us forward, but I'm very grateful to be working with such a fantastic team.

總的來說，我對所有這些企業推進戰略的方式感到非常高興，包括努力保護我們的煤炭開採業務。在我把電話轉回給克里斯蒂之前，我想承認我們優秀的員工團隊仍然有可能實現我們 22 年的強勁業績。他們的辛勤工作和對我們業務的巨大熱情繼續推動我們前進，但我非常感謝能與這樣一支出色的團隊共事。

With that, I'll turn the call back over to Christy to cover our results for the quarter in more detail. Christy?

有了這個，我會把電話轉回克里斯蒂，更詳細地介紹我們本季度的結果。克里斯蒂？

Thank you, J.C. As J.C. mentioned, we had a strong fourth quarter. I'll start with some high-level comments on our consolidated fourth quarter financial results and then add detail on our individual segments.

謝謝你，J.C. 正如 J.C. 提到的，我們有一個強勁的第四季度。我將從對我們合併的第四季度財務業績的一些高層評論開始，然後添加我們各個部門的詳細信息。

On a consolidated basis, our 2022 fourth quarter operating profit increased to $15.5 million, up almost 44% versus 2021. Consolidated net income increased to $13.8 million or $1.84 per diluted share, up from $7.8 million or $1.07 per diluted share last year. Consolidated adjusted EBITDA increased 33% to $23.6 million. These improvements were driven by Minerals Management, which more than doubled its operating profit and adjusted EBITDA over the prior year quarter due to both increased production and substantially higher natural gas and oil prices. Significantly lower earnings in the Coal Mining segment partly offset the impact of the higher Minerals Management earnings.

在綜合基礎上，我們 2022 年第四季度的營業利潤增至 1550 萬美元，比 2021 年增長近 44%。綜合淨收入增至 1380 萬美元或攤薄後每股收益 1.84 美元，高於去年的 780 萬美元或攤薄後每股收益 1.07 美元。綜合調整後 EBITDA 增長 33% 至 2360 萬美元。這些改進是由 Minerals Management 推動的，由於產量增加以及天然氣和石油價格大幅上漲，該公司的營業利潤和調整後的 EBITDA 比去年同期翻了一番以上。煤炭開採部門收益的顯著下降部分抵消了礦產管理收益增加的影響。

Coal Mining fourth quarter revenues increased 30% over 2021 due to a significant increase in customer demand from higher power plant dispatch and a higher per ton sales price at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company. Conversely, operating profit and adjusted EBITDA in the Coal Mining segment decreased significantly. This decrease was due to a substantial increase in the cost per ton of coal delivered and Mississippi Lignite Mining Company and lower earnings at the unconsolidated operations. The decrease in earnings upon consolidated operations was mainly due to a temporary reduction in the per ton management fee at the Falkirk Mine from May 2022 through May 2024. This was partly offset by an increase in earnings at Coteau as a result of contractual price escalation.

煤炭開採第四季度的收入比 2021 年增長了 30%，這是由於更高的電廠調度和密西西比褐煤礦業公司更高的每噸銷售價格導致客戶需求顯著增加。相反，煤炭開採部門的營業利潤和調整後的 EBITDA 大幅下降。這一減少是由於每噸煤炭交付成本和密西西比褐煤礦業公司的成本大幅增加，以及未合併業務的收益下降。合併運營收益的減少主要是由於 Falkirk 礦從 2022 年 5 月到 2024 年 5 月的每噸管理費暫時減少。這部分被 Coteau 因合同價格上漲導致的收益增加所抵消。

North American Mining's fourth quarter results improved from the prior year. The year-over-year improvement was primarily due to lower employee-related costs that stem from a voluntary retirement program the company implemented in the third quarter of 2022. The increase in segment adjusted EBITDA outpaced the improvement in the operating loss because of an increase in depreciation expense.

North American Mining 的第四季度業績較上年有所改善。同比改善主要是由於公司在 2022 年第三季度實施的自願退休計劃導致員工相關成本降低。分部調整後 EBITDA 的增長超過了經營虧損的改善，因為增加了在折舊費用。

Looking forward, in 2023, the Coal Mining segment's operating profit and segment adjusted EBITDA are expected to decrease significantly year-over-year. including and excluding the $14 million GRE termination payment received in 2022. The decline is primarily the result of expected significant reduction in earnings at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company driven by a reduction in the profit per ton of coal delivered. We expect a moderate decrease in earnings of unconsolidated operations to also contribute to the decrease in operating profit. The expected lower earnings are due to the reduction in the per ton management fee at Falkirk for a full 12 months in 2023 compared with 8 months in 2022 and the cessation of deliveries at Sabine as of April 1.

展望未來，到 2023 年，煤炭開採板塊的營業利潤和板塊調整後 EBITDA 預計將同比大幅下降。包括並不包括 2022 年收到的 1400 萬美元 GRE 終止付款。下降的主要原因是密西西比褐煤礦業公司預期的收益大幅減少，這是由於交付的每噸煤的利潤減少所致。我們預計未合併業務收入的適度下降也將導致營業利潤下降。預期較低的收益是由於 2023 年 Falkirk 的每噸管理費減少了整整 12 個月，而 2022 年為 8 個月，並且 Sabine 從 4 月 1 日起停止交付。

In 2023, we expect North American Mining's full year operating profit to decrease significantly versus the prior year because final mine reclamation activities at Coteau Creek were substantially completed in 2022. Conversely, we expect segment adjusted EBITDA to increase from 2022 because improvements at the underlying operations are being masked by a significant increase in depreciation expense in '23 versus 2022.

2023 年，我們預計北美礦業的全年營業利潤將較上年大幅下降，因為 Coteau Creek 的最終礦山復墾活動已於 2022 年基本完成。相反，我們預計分部調整後的 EBITDA 將從 2022 年開始增加，因為基礎業務的改善與 2022 年相比，23 年的折舊費用大幅增加掩蓋了這一點。

Finally, at our Minerals Management segment, we expect '23 operating profit and segment adjusted EBITDA to decrease significantly from 2022. This anticipated decrease is primarily driven by current market expectations for natural gas and oil prices and anticipated reduction in volumes as existing wells follow their natural production decline and limited forecasted development of additional new wells by third-party exploration and production companies. As J.C. mentioned, changes in natural gas and oil prices from current expectations could affect 2023 results.

最後，在我們的礦產管理部門，我們預計 '23 營業利潤和部門調整後的 EBITDA 將從 2022 年開始大幅下降。這一預期下降主要是由於當前市場對天然氣和石油價格的預期以及隨著現有油井開採量的預期減少所致自然產量下降，第三方勘探和生產公司對額外新井的開發預測有限。正如 J.C. 提到的，天然氣和石油價格與當前預期相比的變化可能會影響 2023 年的業績。

To summarize, on a consolidated basis, we expect full year '23 consolidated net income to increase significantly, largely due to the $30.9 million of pretax contract termination income recognized during '22. Excluding this settlement income, net income is expected to decrease substantially from significantly reduced royalty income in the Minerals Management segment and lower earnings in the Coal Mining segment. These reductions are expected to be partially offset by lower income tax expense.

總而言之，在合併的基礎上，我們預計 23 年全年的合併淨收入將大幅增加，這主要是由於 22 年期間確認的 3090 萬美元的稅前合同終止收入。不包括該結算收入，由於礦產管理部門的特許權使用費收入大幅減少以及煤炭開採部門的收益減少，預計淨收入將大幅下降。這些減少預計將被較低的所得稅費用部分抵消。

Looking beyond 2023, we continue to remain optimistic about our long-term outlook. The Coal Mining segment expects increased profitability due in part to improvements at Falkirk and Mississippi Lignite Mining Company, and we continue to pursue activities which can strengthen the resiliency of our coal mining operations.

展望 2023 年以後，我們繼續對我們的長期前景保持樂觀。煤炭開採部門預計盈利能力將增加，部分原因是福爾柯克和密西西比褐煤礦業公司的改善，我們將繼續開展可以增強煤炭開採業務彈性的活動。

As J.C. previously mentioned, opportunities for growth remain strong in the Minerals Management and Mitigation Resources businesses. In addition, we remain committed to North American Mining and are encouraged by recent developments at Thacker Pass.

正如 J.C. 之前提到的，礦產管理和緩解資源業務的增長機會依然強勁。此外，我們仍然致力於北美礦業，並對 Thacker Pass 的近期發展感到鼓舞。

Lastly, from a liquidity standpoint, we ended the quarter with consolidated cash of $110.7 million and debt of $19.7 million. In addition, we had availability of $116.3 million under our revolving credit facility. For the 2023 full year, we expect cash flow before financing activities to remain positive, but be significantly lower than '22 because of the anticipated high capital expenditures primarily for Sawtooth.

最後，從流動性的角度來看，我們在本季度末的綜合現金為 1.107 億美元，債務為 1970 萬美元。此外，我們的循環信貸額度下還有 1.163 億美元的可用資金。對於 2023 年全年，我們預計融資活動前的現金流量將保持正值，但會大大低於 22 年，因為預計主要用於 Sawtooth 的資本支出很高。

We will now turn to any questions you may have.

我們現在將回答您可能有的任何問題。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Andrew Kuhn from Focused Compounding.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Focused Compounding 的 Andrew Kuhn。

So for North American Mining, the results didn't meet your expectations this year. Can you talk about what type of factors has driven the difference between your return on capital expectations when you first started growing this business and the results we've had so far? Like are these issues of expense management? Is it capital intensity? Is it the contract economics? Any way that you can expand on that would be great.

因此，對於北美礦業，今年的結果沒有達到您的預期。您能談談什麼類型的因素導致您最初開始發展這項業務時的資本回報率預期與我們目前取得的結果之間存在差異？這些費用管理問題是什麼？是資本密集度嗎？是契約經濟學嗎？任何你可以擴展的方式都會很棒。

Thanks for the question. I think what I'd do is point to the -- talk about the initiatives that we're working on with respect to getting that business where we want it to be. We mentioned in the release that we've done a review of the operations at each 1 of the quarries. I would say that at a majority of the quarries, things are going very well. We're generating the profits we've expected out of those. There are some quarries where we're not meeting our expectations, which gets thrown into the mix of the whole business. So we're looking at productivity and efficiency improvements. We're working on how we coordinate our work with our customer. In the quarries -- and the North American mining business where we operated the quarries, we're not running the entire quarry. So it's really a coordinated sort of effort between our work and our customers work. So we're trying to get that better in sync so that both sides are more efficient.

謝謝你的問題。我認為我要做的是指出 - 談論我們正在努力使該業務達到我們想要的目標的舉措。我們在新聞稿中提到，我們已經對每個採石場的運營進行了審查。我要說的是，在大多數採石場，一切都進展順利。我們正在從中產生我們預期的利潤。有些採石場我們沒有達到我們的期望，這會影響到整個業務。因此，我們正在考慮提高生產力和效率。我們正在研究如何協調我們與客戶的工作。在採石場——以及我們經營採石場的北美採礦業務中，我們並沒有經營整個採石場。因此，這實際上是我們的工作和客戶工作之間的一種協調努力。因此，我們正在努力使兩者更好地同步，以便雙方都更有效率。

And as we've described in our earnings releases as well, we're focusing on some administrative areas where we think we can be more efficient. So in that whole collection of things, we think we can make some meaningful progress towards getting this business where we'd like it to be.

正如我們在收益報告中所描述的那樣，我們正在關註一些我們認為可以提高效率的行政領域。因此，在所有事情中，我們認為我們可以取得一些有意義的進展，使這項業務達到我們希望的水平。

Got it. And then I think this is the first 10-K where you mentioned one day possibly developing utility scale solar power reclaim mining ahead. Is that an idea you've been exploring internally for a while? Or is there some other reason that is included in this year's 10-K?

知道了。然後我認為這是您提到的第一個 10-K，有一天可能會提前開發公用事業規模的太陽能回收採礦。這是你在內部探索了一段時間的想法嗎？還是今年的 10-K 中包含其他一些原因？

It's an idea. We've been exploring for a while. I think it's not a unique idea. You're seeing a number of companies doing this, and we've been working on it as well. we think that it's got enough potential that we decided that we should start talking about it in our public disclosures.

這是一個想法。我們已經探索了一段時間。我認為這不是一個獨特的想法。你看到很多公司都在這樣做，我們也一直在努力。我們認為它有足夠的潛力，我們決定我們應該開始在我們的公開披露中談論它。

And then in your 10-K, you used a standard disclosure that cash and cash equivalents consist of cash in bank and highly liquid investments with original maturities of 3 months or less. Given that it would be a large and uninsured depositor at any bank you do business with, I'm just curious if there's been any discussion about being more in 3 months and under investment and less natural bank deposit?

然後在您的 10-K 中，您使用了標準披露，即現金和現金等價物包括銀行現金和原始期限為 3 個月或更短的高流動性投資。考慮到在與您有業務往來的任何一家銀行中，它都是一個大型且未投保的存款人，我很好奇是否有任何關於 3 個月內更多、投資不足和自然銀行存款更少的討論？

So I mean -- I'm sure like lots of people, right? We just double checked where all of our investments were? Where are they placed? And we don't have very much that's exposed with respect to just regular deposits. A lot of this is in 3-month types of paper, things like that. Does that answer your question?

所以我的意思是——我肯定喜歡很多人，對吧？我們只是仔細檢查了我們所有的投資在哪裡？它們放在哪裡？而且我們沒有太多關於定期存款的風險。其中很多是 3 個月的論文，諸如此類。這是否回答你的問題？

Yes. No, that's fine.

是的。不，沒關係。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Nachy Kanfer from Donovan Energy.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 Donovan Energy 的 Nachy Kanfer。

Nachy, actually like knocking on the door. I appreciate all the insights this morning. Just a couple of questions. Actually, follow ups from conversations we've had in previous earnings calls. First, about Mississippi Lignite. A while back, maybe about a year ago, I had asked if the management team has any concern about the creditworthiness of your customer out there, [Kafka] generation. And your answer was no. I'm wondering if that's still the case.

Nachy，居然喜歡敲門。我感謝今天早上的所有見解。只是幾個問題。實際上，跟進我們在之前的財報電話會議上進行的對話。首先，關於密西西比褐煤。前陣子，也許大約一年前，我問過管理團隊是否擔心你的客戶，[Kafka] 一代的信譽。而你的回答是否定的。我想知道是否仍然如此。

Well, I think ultimately, the customer is, TVA, right, which essentially is a government entity. So I think when you look at TVA interest in this plant from a resiliency and reliability standpoint and the way they've described the plant publicly, I think it's pretty safe to say that they intend to operate -- intend to take electricity from this plant for the foreseeable future.

好吧，我認為最終，客戶是 TVA，對，它本質上是一個政府實體。所以我認為，當你從彈性和可靠性的角度來看 TVA 對該工廠的興趣以及他們公開描述該工廠的方式時，我認為可以很安全地說他們打算運營 - 打算從該工廠獲取電力在可預見的未來。

So if you work your way back through the value chain, I think that's how we feel pretty comfortable with the way this is all put together. We do acknowledge, however, that Southern Company and the bondholders are trying to work out some situations between them, but that's really between them. But ultimately, TVA is really the end customer here.

因此，如果您通過價值鏈返回，我認為這就是我們對將所有這些組合在一起的方式感到非常滿意的方式。然而，我們確實承認，南方公司和債券持有人正在努力解決他們之間的一些情況，但這確實是他們之間的事情。但最終，TVA 確實是這裡的最終客戶。

Got it. That's helpful. So from NACCO's perspective, a default at [Kafka] generation, there's no material risk to coal sales or coal revenue -- coal sales revenue at that customer?

知道了。這很有幫助。因此，從 NACCO 的角度來看，[Kafka] 發電違約，煤炭銷售或煤炭收入沒有重大風險——該客戶的煤炭銷售收入？

Well, I think it's -- I mean, I'll go back to TVA, right? Everybody's got a chain of contracts that work themselves from us supplying coal all the way through TVA taking energy. And I think the only way anybody gets any recovery on their own investment is by operating the plant. And you can't operate the plant without coal coming out of our mind. So in everybody's best interest to continue to operate.

好吧，我認為這是——我的意思是，我會回到TVA，對吧？每個人都有一系列合同，這些合同從我們供應煤炭一直到 TVA 獲取能源。而且我認為任何人收回自己投資的唯一方法就是運營工廠。如果我們不考慮煤炭，就無法運營工廠。因此，為了每個人的最佳利益，繼續運營。

Got it. And then at Rainbow, I wanted to ask about EPA-proposed action on Coal Creek's Part B application under the coal residuals -- Coal Combustion Residuals [rule]. My understanding is EPA is proposing to deny Coal Creek's Part B application, which would result in a significant capital expense to upgrade ash handling and other things. Don't have a handle on what that capital expense is. I'm wondering if you do -- and if you can give me a sense of kind of -- what does that contract work in terms of EPS or anything else? How are we thinking about that?

知道了。然後在 Rainbow，我想詢問 EPA 對 Coal Creek 在煤炭殘留物下的 B 部分申請採取的行動——煤炭燃燒殘留物 [規則]。我的理解是 EPA 提議拒絕 Coal Creek 的 B 部分申請，這將導致升級灰處理和其他事情的大量資本支出。不知道資本支出是多少。我想知道你是否這樣做 - 如果你能給我一種感覺 - 該合同在 EPS 或其他方面有什麼作用？我們怎麼想的？

Good question. I'm going to give you, unfortunately, 2 answers that aren't going to be very helpful to you. But one is that Coal Creek's negotiations or discussions with the EPA between them. I don't think it's right for me to comment on those. And we have never disclosed our individual profits that we make at any of these mines for obvious competitive reasons.

好問題。不幸的是，我將給你 2 個對你沒有多大幫助的答案。但其中之一是 Coal Creek 與 EPA 之間的談判或討論。我認為我不適合對這些發表評論。出於明顯的競爭原因，我們從未披露過我們在任何這些礦山中賺取的個人利潤。

Understood. I guess can you describe -- so is there a risk that Coal Creek declares force majeure on your like brand new renegotiated contract there? And how are you thinking about that risk? Well, maybe not force majeure. I mean, I'm not an attorney, but...

明白了。我想你能描述一下——那麼 Coal Creek 是否有風險宣布你在那裡重新談判的全新合同出現不可抗力？您如何看待這種風險？好吧，也許不是不可抗力。我的意思是，我不是律師，但是...

Yes, well, that's what threw me. I'm like, well, how this force majeure coming to this.

是的，這就是讓我震驚的原因。我想，好吧，這種不可抗力是如何發生的。

Is there a risk that there's a termination, an early termination of some sort to that coal sales agreement?

是否存在終止、提前終止該煤炭銷售協議的風險？

Not that we see. I mean, look, is there a remote possibility that anything can happen. I mean, it could get hit by an asteroid, right? So things can happen, but we don't view that as a significant risk.

不是我們看到的。我的意思是，看，是否存在任何事情都可能發生的可能性。我的意思是，它可能會被小行星撞擊，對吧？所以事情可能會發生，但我們不認為這是一個重大風險。

We have no further questions. I'll now hand you back over to Christina Kmetko for closing remarks.

我們沒有其他問題了。現在我將把你交還給 Christina Kmetko 做閉幕詞。

Thank you. We'll close with just a few final reminders. A replay of our call will be available online later this morning. We'll also post a transcript on the Investor Relations website when it becomes available. If you have any questions, please reach out to me. You can reach me at the phone number on the press release.

謝謝。我們將以最後幾點提醒結束。今天上午晚些時候將在網上提供我們通話的重播。我們還將在投資者關係網站上發布成績單。如果您有任何問題，請聯繫我。您可以通過新聞稿上的電話號碼與我聯繫。

I hope you enjoy the rest of your day, and now back to our operator to conclude the call.

希望您今天餘下的時間過得愉快，現在回到我們的接線員處結束通話。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您加入我們。您現在可以斷開線路。