芯源系統 (MPWR) 2022 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, everyone, to the MPS Third Quarter 2022 Earnings Webinar. Please note that this webinar is being recorded and will be archived for 1 year on our Investor Relations page at www.monolithicpower.com. My name is Genevieve Cunningham, and I will be the moderator for this webinar.

歡迎各位參加 MPS 2022 年第三季財報網路研討會。請注意，本次網路研討會將被錄音，並將在我們的投資人關係頁面 www.monolithicpower.com 上存檔 1 年。我的名字是 Genevieve Cunningham，今天將擔任本次研討會的主持人。

Joining me today are Michael Hsing, CEO and Founder of MPS; and Bernie Blegen, VP and CFO. In the course of today's webinar, we will make forward-looking statements and projections that involve risk and uncertainty, which could cause results to differ materially from management's current views and expectations. Please refer to the safe harbor statement contained in the earnings release published today. Risks, uncertainties and other factors that could cause actual results to differ are identified in the safe harbor statements contained in the Q3 2022 earnings release and in our latest 10-K and 10-Q filings that can be found on our website. MPS assumes no obligation to update the information provided on today's call.

今天與我一同出席的有 MPS 執行長暨創辦人 Michael Hsing，以及副總裁兼財務長 Bernie Blegen。在今天的研討會過程中，我們將提出涉及風險與不確定性的前瞻性陳述與預測，這些因素可能導致實際結果與管理層目前的觀點與預期存在重大差異。請參閱今日發布之財報新聞稿中的安全港聲明。可能導致實際結果不同的風險、不確定性及其他因素，已載明於 2022 年第三季財報新聞稿的安全港聲明，以及我們最新的 10-K 與 10-Q 申報文件中，相關文件可於我們網站查閱。MPS 不承擔更新今日電話會議所提供資訊之任何義務。

We will be discussing gross margin, operating expense, R&D and SG&A expense, operating income, other income, income before income taxes, net income and earnings on both a GAAP and a non-GAAP basis. These non-GAAP financial measures are not prepared in accordance with GAAP and should not be considered as a substitute for or superior to measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with GAAP. A table that outlines the reconciliation between the non-GAAP financial measures to GAAP financial measures is included in our Q3 2022 earnings release, which we have furnished to the SEC and is currently available on our website. Now I'd like to turn the call over to Bernie Blegen.

我們將以 GAAP 與非 GAAP 兩種基礎討論毛利率、營業費用、研發與銷售、一般及行政（SG&A）費用、營業利益、其他收益、所得稅前利益、淨利以及每股盈餘。這些非 GAAP 財務衡量指標並非依 GAAP 編製，且不應被視為 GAAP 財務績效衡量指標的替代或更優指標。概述非 GAAP 財務衡量指標與 GAAP 財務衡量指標之間調節的表格，已包含於我們的 2022 年第三季財報新聞稿中；該新聞稿已提交給美國證券交易委員會（SEC），目前亦可於我們網站取得。現在我想把電話會議交給 Bernie Blegen。

Thanks, Jen. First of all, today, I'm greeting you from Europe. We held our third quarter Board of Directors meeting in our Barcelona office. We have our Board members tour the facility and oversee the operations here.

謝謝，Jen。首先，今天我從歐洲向各位問候。我們在巴塞隆納辦公室召開了第三季董事會會議。我們也安排董事會成員參觀設施並了解這裡的營運狀況。

Now to the financial results. MPS achieved record third quarter revenue of $495.4 million, 7.5% higher than revenue in the second quarter of 2022 and 53.1% higher than revenue in the third quarter of 2021. This broad-based year-over-year revenue growth was the result of consistent execution against our strategies.

接著談財務結果。MPS 第三季營收創下新高，達 4.954 億美元，較 2022 年第二季高 7.5%，較 2021 年第三季高 53.1%。這種廣泛的年增營收成長，源自我們持續有效地執行既定策略。

Looking at our third quarter 2022 revenue by market. Third quarter automotive revenue of $87.1 million increased 42.7% from the second quarter of 2022, due primarily to new platform launches. Third quarter 2022 automotive revenue was up 60.0% year-over-year. Automotive revenue represented 17.6% of MPS' third quarter 2022 revenue compared with 16.8% in the third quarter of 2021.

接著按市場別來看 2022 年第三季營收。第三季汽車市場營收為 8,710 萬美元，較 2022 年第二季增加 42.7%，主要受惠於新平台導入。2022 年第三季汽車營收年增 60.0%。汽車營收占 MPS 2022 年第三季總營收的 17.6%，相較於 2021 年第三季的 16.8%。

Third quarter 2022 communications revenue of $72.3 million was up 21.9% from the second quarter of 2022. Most of this sequential revenue increase was related to the continued communications infrastructure ramp. Third quarter 2022 communications revenue was up 61.8% year-over-year. Communications sales represented 14.6% of our total third quarter 2022 revenue compared with 13.8% in the third quarter of 2021.

2022 年第三季通訊市場營收為 7,230 萬美元，較 2022 年第二季成長 21.9%。此一季增主要與通訊基礎設施持續放量相關。2022 年第三季通訊營收年增 61.8%。通訊銷售占我們 2022 年第三季總營收的 14.6%，相較於 2021 年第三季的 13.8%。

In our enterprise data market, third quarter 2022 revenue of $75.3 million increased 15.5% from the second quarter of 2022, primarily due to continued strength in our data center and workstation computing sales. Third quarter 2022 revenue represented 15.2% of MPS' third quarter 2022 revenue compared with 9.2% in the third quarter of 2021.

在企業資料市場方面，2022 年第三季營收為 7,530 萬美元，較 2022 年第二季增加 15.5%，主要由於資料中心與工作站運算銷售持續強勁。2022 年第三季營收占 MPS 2022 年第三季總營收的 15.2%，相較於 2021 年第三季的 9.2%。

Third quarter 2022, industrial revenue of $58.7 million increased 5.1% from the second quarter of 2022. Third quarter 2022 industrial revenue was up 12.5% year-over-year. Industrial revenue represented 11.8% of our third quarter 2022 revenue compared with 16.1% in the third quarter of 2021.

2022 年第三季工業市場營收為 5,870 萬美元，較 2022 年第二季增加 5.1%。2022 年第三季工業營收年增 12.5%。工業營收占我們 2022 年第三季總營收的 11.8%，相較於 2021 年第三季的 16.1%。

Storage and computing revenue of $112.9 million decreased 7.7% from the second quarter of 2022. The sequential revenue decline was primarily due to softening of customer demand for notebooks. Third quarter 2022 storage and computing revenue was up 63.9% year-over-year. Storage and computing revenue represented 22.8% of MPS' third quarter 2022 revenue compared with 21.3% in the third quarter of 2021.

儲存與運算營收為 1.129 億美元，較 2022 年第二季下降 7.7%。此一季減主要由於筆記型電腦客戶需求轉弱。2022 年第三季儲存與運算營收年增 63.9%。儲存與運算營收占 MPS 2022 年第三季總營收的 22.8%，相較於 2021 年第三季的 21.3%。

Third quarter consumer revenue of $89.2 million decreased 8.4% from the second quarter of 2022. The sequential quarterly revenue decline was primarily due to softening of overall demand. Third quarter 2022 consumer revenue was up 21.1% year-over-year. Consumer revenue represented 18.0% of MPS' third quarter 2022 revenue compared with 22.8% in the third quarter of 2021.

2022 年第三季消費性市場營收為 8,920 萬美元，較 2022 年第二季下降 8.4%。此一季減主要由於整體需求轉弱。2022 年第三季消費性營收年增 21.1%。消費性營收占 MPS 2022 年第三季總營收的 18.0%，相較於 2021 年第三季的 22.8%。

Let's talk about the general business conditions. For the prior 6 quarters, we have faced product shortages, especially in consumer storage and computing. Now we have started to see our customers reduce their orders and push out shipments. We've experienced similar patterns in the past. We anticipate order patterns might oscillate in the near future.

接著談整體營運環境。在過去 6 個季度，我們一直面臨產品短缺，尤其是在消費性儲存與運算領域。現在我們開始看到客戶減少訂單並延後出貨。我們過去也曾遇到類似情況。我們預期近期訂單型態可能會出現波動。

This is not a surprise to us. As a result of this change in ordering patterns, our inventory levels will catch up to our target of 180 to 200 days and possibly be higher in the near term. In addition, we have over 4,000 different products which are required to support thousands of our customers' applications. On average, our product life cycles exceeds 6 to 8 years. so we are not concerned with carrying an inventory level above target.

這對我們而言並不意外。由於訂購模式的改變，我們的庫存水位將追上我們 180 至 200 天的目標，且短期內可能更高。此外，我們擁有超過 4,000 種不同產品，用以支援數千項客戶應用。平均而言，我們的產品生命週期超過 6 至 8 年。因此，我們不擔心庫存水位高於目標。

MPS' business is in a better position today Rather than managing product shortage problems, we can now focus on long-term business development. For longer cycle business like automotive, enterprise data, comms infrastructure and industrial, both our customers and MPS have expended significant effort and made joint investments in the development of multiple leading-edge products and applications.

MPS 目前的業務處於更有利的位置。相較於管理產品短缺問題，我們現在可以專注於長期業務發展。對於週期較長的業務，例如汽車、企業資料、通訊基礎設施與工業領域，我們的客戶與 MPS 均投入大量努力，並共同投資開發多項領先的產品與應用。

As a result, we have secured business which we believe will ramp over the next several years driving revenue growth. For shorter cycle, consumer-related business, we will continue to proactively support our customers' needs. We've established MPS as a reliable supplier with excellent customer support during this extended period of product shortages. Accordingly, we believe both longer and shorter cycle customers value MPS as a strategic partner.

因此，我們已取得我們相信將在未來數年逐步放量、帶動營收成長的業務。對於週期較短、與消費性相關的業務，我們將持續主動支援客戶需求。在這段產品長期短缺期間，我們已將 MPS 建立為可靠供應商，並提供優異的客戶支援。因此，我們相信無論是長週期或短週期的客戶，都將 MPS 視為策略夥伴。

We are cautious about the overall business conditions and believe we can swiftly adapt to market changes as we have done successfully during similar macroeconomic changes in the past. There have been recent changes to export controllables and additional companies have been added to the entities list. As of today, we see immaterial revenue impact directly or indirectly from those new trade restrictions. Our products utilize process nodes in excess of 40 nanometer, which falls well outside the current restrictions.

我們對整體商業環境保持審慎，並相信我們能如同過去在類似總體經濟變化中成功應對一般，迅速適應市場變化。近期出口管制項目有所變更，且有更多公司被加入實體清單。截至今日，我們認為這些新的貿易限制對我們的營收（無論直接或間接）影響不重大。我們的產品使用的製程節點大於 40 奈米，明顯不在目前限制範圍內。

Moving now to a few comments on gross margin and operating income. Third quarter 2022 GAAP gross margin was 58.7%, which was 10 basis points lower than the second quarter of 2022 and 110 basis points higher than the third quarter of 2021.

接著就毛利率與營業利益做幾點說明。2022 年第三季 GAAP 毛利率為 58.7%，較 2022 年第二季低 10 個基點，較 2021 年第三季高 110 個基點。

Our GAAP operating income was $151.9 million compared to $141.9 million reported in the second quarter of 2022. Non-GAAP gross margin for the third quarter of 2022 was 59.0%, essentially flat from the gross margin percentage reported in the second quarter of 2022 and 120 basis points higher than the third quarter from a year ago. Our non-GAAP operating income was $193.7 million, compared to $179.4 million reported in the second quarter of 2022.

我們的 GAAP 營業利益為 1.519 億美元，相較於 2022 年第二季的 1.419 億美元。2022 年第三季非 GAAP 毛利率為 59.0%，與 2022 年第二季所報告的毛利率百分比基本持平，並較去年同期第三季高 120 個基點。我們的非 GAAP 營業利益為 1.937 億美元，相較於 2022 年第二季的 1.794 億美元。

Let's review our operating expenses. Our GAAP operating expenses were $139.0 million in the third quarter of 2022 compared with $129.1 million in the second quarter of 2022 and $109.2 million in the third quarter of 2021. Our non-GAAP third quarter 2022 operating expenses were $98.4 million, up from $92.7 million in the second quarter of 2022 and up from the $78.7 million reported in the third quarter of 2021. The differences between non-GAAP operating expenses and GAAP operating expenses for the quarters discussed here are primarily stock compensation expense and income or expense from an unfunded deferred compensation plan.

讓我們回顧一下我們的營業費用。我們在 2022 年第三季的 GAAP 營業費用為 1.390 億美元，相較於 2022 年第二季的 1.291 億美元，以及 2021 年第三季的 1.092 億美元。我們 2022 年第三季的非 GAAP 營業費用為 9,840 萬美元，高於 2022 年第二季的 9,270 萬美元，也高於 2021 年第三季所報告的 7,870 萬美元。此處所討論各季非 GAAP 與 GAAP 營業費用之間的差異，主要來自股票薪酬費用，以及未提撥遞延薪酬計畫所產生的收入或費用。

For the third quarter of 2022, total stock compensation expense, including approximately $1.2 million charge to cost of goods sold was $43.0 million compared with $42.9 million recorded in the second quarter of 2022.

就 2022 年第三季而言，股票薪酬費用總額（包含約 120 萬美元計入銷貨成本的費用）為 4,300 萬美元，與 2022 年第二季認列的 4,290 萬美元相比。

Switching to the bottom line. Third quarter 2022 GAAP net income was $124.3 million or $2.57 per fully diluted share compared with $114.7 million or $2.37 per share in the second quarter of 2022 and $68.8 million or $1.44 per share in the third quarter of 2021.

接著看最終獲利。2022 年第三季 GAAP 淨利為 1.243 億美元，或每股完全稀釋後 2.57 美元；相較於 2022 年第二季的 1.147 億美元或每股 2.37 美元，以及 2021 年第三季的 6,880 萬美元或每股 1.44 美元。

Q3 2022 non-GAAP net income was $170.7 million or $3.53 per fully diluted share compared with $157 million or $3.25 per share in the second quarter of 2022 and $98.6 million or $2.06 per share in the third quarter of 2021. Fully diluted shares outstanding at the end of Q3 2022 were $48.3 million.

2022 年第三季非 GAAP 淨利為 1.707 億美元，或每股完全稀釋後 3.53 美元；相較於 2022 年第二季的 1.57 億美元或每股 3.25 美元，以及 2021 年第三季的 9,860 萬美元或每股 2.06 美元。2022 年第三季末的完全稀釋在外流通股數為 4,830 萬股。

Now let's look at the balance sheet. Cash, cash equivalents and investments were $738.1 million at the end of the third quarter of 2022 compared to $814.1 million at the end of the second quarter of 2022. For the quarter, MPS generated operating cash flow of about $18.2 million compared with Q2 2022 operating cash flow of $105.2 million. The decline in operating cash flow and increase in other long-term assets reflected a $170 million prepaid payment made during the quarter to secure a long-term purchasing commitment. Accounts receivable ended the third quarter of 2022 at $153.4 million, representing 28 days of sales outstanding which was 3 days higher than the 25 days reported at the end of the second quarter of 2022 and 6 days higher than the 22 days at the end of the third quarter of 2021.

現在我們來看資產負債表。2022 年第三季末的現金、約當現金及投資為 7.381 億美元，相較於 2022 年第二季末的 8.141 億美元。本季 MPS 產生的營運現金流約為 1,820 萬美元，相較於 2022 年第二季的營運現金流 1.052 億美元。營運現金流的下降以及其他長期資產的增加，反映本季為確保一項長期採購承諾而支付的 1.70 億美元預付款。2022 年第三季末應收帳款為 1.534 億美元，代表應收帳款週轉天數為 28 天，較 2022 年第二季末所報告的 25 天增加 3 天，也較 2021 年第三季末的 22 天增加 6 天。

Our internal inventories at the end of the third quarter of 2022 were $397.4 million, up $37.8 million from the $359.6 million reported at the end of the second quarter of 2022. Inventory at the end of the third quarter of 2022 represented 167 days, which were 5 days lower than at the end of the second quarter of 2022.

我們在 2022 年第三季末的內部存貨為 3.974 億美元，較 2022 年第二季末所報告的 3.596 億美元增加 3,780 萬美元。2022 年第三季末的存貨相當於 167 天，較 2022 年第二季末少 5 天。

Historically, we have calculated days of inventory on hand as a function of the current quarter revenue. We believe comparing current inventory levels with the following quarter's revenue provides a better economic match. On this basis, you can see inventory at the end of the third quarter of 2022 represented 189 days, 29 days higher than 160 days at the end of the second quarter of 2022 and 56 days higher than the 133 days at the end of the third quarter of 2021.

過去我們一向以當季營收作為計算存貨在手天數的基礎。我們認為，將目前存貨水位與下一季營收相比，能更貼近經濟實質的配比。以此基礎來看，2022 年第三季末的存貨相當於 189 天，較 2022 年第二季末的 160 天增加 29 天，也較 2021 年第三季末的 133 天增加 56 天。

I would now like to turn to our outlook for the fourth quarter of 2022. We are forecasting Q4 revenue in the range of $450 million to $470 million. We also expect the following. GAAP gross margin to be in the range of 58.1% to 58.7%, non-GAAP gross margin in the range of 58.3% to 58.9%, total stock-based compensation expense of $37.7 million to $39.7 million, including approximately $1.1 million that would be charged to cost of goods sold.

接下來我想談談我們對 2022 年第四季的展望。我們預估第四季營收將落在 4.50 億至 4.70 億美元之間。我們也預期如下：GAAP 毛利率將落在 58.1% 至 58.7% 的區間；非 GAAP 毛利率將落在 58.3% 至 58.9% 的區間；股票基礎薪酬費用總額為 3,770 萬至 3,970 萬美元，其中約 110 萬美元將計入銷貨成本。

GAAP, R&D and SG&A expenses should be between $131 million and $135 million. Non-GAAP R&D and SG&A expenses are expected to be in the range of $94.4 million to $96.4 million. Litigation expense is expected to be in the range of $1.3 million to $1.7 million. Interest income is expected to be in the range from $1.1 million to $1.5 million. Fully diluted shares are expected to be in the range of $48.2 million to $49.2 million shares.

GAAP 研發與銷售、一般及行政（SG&A）費用預計介於 1.31 億至 1.35 億美元。非 GAAP 研發與 SG&A 費用預計介於 9,440 萬至 9,640 萬美元。訴訟費用預計介於 130 萬至 170 萬美元。利息收入預計介於 110 萬至 150 萬美元。完全稀釋股數預計介於 4,820 萬至 4,920 萬股。

In conclusion, even though business conditions are softening, our market share gains continue to expand, reflecting high customer engagement and our ability to secure design wins. We can now focus on growing our long-term business. I will now open the webinar up for questions.

總結來說，儘管商業環境正在轉弱，我們的市佔率提升仍持續擴大，反映客戶高度參與以及我們取得設計導入（design wins）的能力。我們現在可以專注於推動長期業務成長。接下來我將開放線上會議進行提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Matt Ramsay of Cowen

（接線員指示）我們的第一個問題來自 Cowen 的 Matt Ramsay。

Michael, Bernie, can you hear me okay?

Michael、Bernie，你們聽得到我嗎？

Oh, yes. (inaudible).

喔，可以。（聽不清楚）

So 2 different questions from me. One sort of related to the model and the near term, and the other one on a different topic. So the first question, Bernie, if you could help us a little bit. I mean, the guidance was a bit light, and you talked about some of the macro conditions. But it seemed like weakness was concentrated in the storage and computing segment. So if you could maybe talk about things by segment and what your guidance implies on a quarterly basis by segment, I think that would be helpful. And then I have a follow-up.

我有兩個不同的問題。一個比較與模型和短期狀況相關，另一個是不同主題。第一個問題，Bernie，如果你能幫我們補充一下。我的意思是，指引有點偏弱，你也談到一些總體環境因素。但看起來疲弱主要集中在儲存與運算部門。所以如果你能按部門談談情況，以及你們的指引在各部門按季所隱含的意義，我想會很有幫助。然後我還有一個追問。

Sure. Just to clarify that the softness that we're seeing is both in the storage and computing as well as consumer. The other segments are still positioned to show growth between Q3 and Q4. The only sort of qualifier that we're still trying to learn about the strength and the run rate of the communications segment.

當然。先澄清一下，我們看到的轉弱同時出現在儲存與運算以及消費性領域。其他部門仍有望在第三季到第四季之間呈現成長。唯一需要補充的是，我們仍在了解通訊部門的強度與出貨節奏（run rate）。

So I think what we've done is we feel very, very comfortable with both how we've been communicating our expected results, but we've added a little conservatism to the outlook.

所以我認為我們所做的是：我們對於一直以來溝通的預期結果感到非常、非常有信心，但我們在展望中加入了一點保守性。

Got it. Great. Michael, my second question is on the topic of China. And over the last I would say, 3 or 4 weeks since some of the new commerce and BIS restrictions have come into place, I've been getting a ton of investor questions about this topic with relation to your company on 2 fronts. I guess the first being MPS has a significant employee base in China. If you could maybe quantify what maybe percentage of your employees and in what functions are actually in China. And if you've heard from any of these restrictions that there could be any -- restrictions on those employees, need to relocate anybody, those kind of things?

了解。很好。Michael，我的第二個問題是關於中國。我想在過去大概 3 到 4 週，自從一些新的商務部與 BIS 限制措施生效以來，我收到非常多投資人就這個主題、且與你們公司相關的問題，主要有兩個面向。第一個是，MPS 在中國有相當規模的員工基礎。你是否可以量化一下，大概有多少比例的員工、以及主要從事哪些職能是在中國？另外，你們是否從這些限制中聽到任何訊息，例如可能對這些員工有所限制、需要搬遷任何人之類的情況？

And then the second part of the question is on your manufacturing footprint, I know it's spread across China, Taiwan, increasingly in Korea. We've heard some stories from semi cap companies needing to pull employees out of SMIC, for example, in other places because of these new restrictions.

第二部分是關於你們的製造版圖。我知道你們分布在中國、台灣，並且越來越多在韓國。我們也聽到一些故事，例如半導體設備公司因為這些新限制，必須把員工從中芯國際（SMIC）等其他地方撤出。

So anything in your manufacturing operations that might be disrupted at all because of some of the China restrictions and how far are you guys along in -- or maybe the mix of your capacity that's now outside of China. You get the nature of the questions, but they've been a pretty frequent and acute over the last 3 or 4 weeks. So it'd be great if you could just kind of address some of those topics.

所以，你們製造營運中是否有任何部分，可能因為中國的一些限制而受到任何程度的干擾？另外，你們在——或者說你們目前有多少產能組合已經移到中國以外？你明白這些問題的性質，但在過去 3 到 4 週它們被問得相當頻繁且很急迫。所以如果你能大致回應一下這些主題就太好了。

Yes. Very nice questions. Okay. I'm glad you asked, that what all your concern is that I think that most of the people totally misconstrued whatever the regulation dips. And we do have a presence. We have a large presence in -- within China. This is a U.S. companies, okay? And we're not subject to sanctions at all. We don't have to have people to leave -- Americans have to leave an MPS office within China. And that's not in essentially entity list, and we are not in an essentially entity list. And other one is the manufacturing.

是的。問題問得很好。好，我很高興你問了，因為你們所有的擔憂，我認為多數人都完全誤解了那些法規的影響。我們確實有據點。我們在——在中國境內有很大的據點。這是一家美國公司，好嗎？而且我們完全不受制裁影響。我們不需要讓人離開——美國人不需要離開中國境內的 MPS 辦公室。而且那不在實體清單上，我們也不在實體清單上。另一個就是製造。

So in the last couple of quarters, we already talked about it. We diversified out of China and we started 5, 6 years ago. And also, I should mention that we talk about the engineering manpower. This is -- MPS started in 2017. And we are in Barcelona announced, and okay, we grew the very large team here and -- with local government support. And again, we're outside of China. And that's not because we -- because of sanctions. Because we are well diversified, automatically, we will grow into a different region in the same time zones where we give our customers a better support.

所以在過去幾個季度，我們已經談過。我們已經把供應多元化、移出中國，而且是從 5、6 年前就開始了。另外我也要提到，我們談到工程人力。這是——MPS 在 2017 年開始。我們在巴塞隆納宣布（設點），好，我們在這裡把團隊擴大到非常大——並且有地方政府的支持。再一次，我們在中國以外。而這不是因為我們——不是因為制裁。因為我們已經很分散，自然而然地，我們會在相同時區的不同地區成長，讓我們能給客戶更好的支援。

And just to finish up on Michael's comment there, to be perfectly clear, our technology and our products are not subject to restrictions.

另外補充一下 Michael 剛才的評論，為了完全清楚起見，我們的技術和我們的產品不受限制。

Just a very, very, quick follow-up. What would you say the percentage, Michael, of the products or the revenue that is actually sourced from manufacturing footprints inside of China today versus outside?

再非常、非常簡短追問一下。Michael，你會怎麼說：目前實際上來自中國境內製造據點的產品或營收占比，與中國以外相比，大概各是多少？

It is very convoluted. And it is very convoluted in the packaging and also the process -- wafer manufacturers. And it's very convoluted. We don't have clear figures now. But going back to the Bernie's questions -- Bernie's answers, our technologies, we're using 40-nanometer above. And the current sanctions is 14-nanometer below. We are far where -- as Bernie mentioned in the script, we are far from that [same chip] in the way using the trading edge. We're using the -- really using the trading edge of a fab equipment.

這非常複雜。而且在封裝以及製程——晶圓製造商方面都非常複雜。我們現在沒有明確的數字。但回到 Bernie 的問題——Bernie 的回答，我們的技術使用的是 40 奈米以上。而目前的制裁是 14 奈米以下。我們距離——如同 Bernie 在講稿裡提到的，我們離那個（同一類晶片）很遠，並不是在使用最先進的製程。我們使用的是——其實是利用晶圓廠設備的成熟製程優勢。

And if I can just follow up on one quick point you made in our script here, is that as the supply demand imbalance has normalized, that frees us up from just being in pure production mode to actually be able to invest time in business relationships to be able to expand and diversify our capacity which we talked about, about 3 quarters ago, we're going to go from $2 billion of capacity currently to $4 billion within the next 2 years -- 2 to 3 years.

如果我可以就你在我們講稿裡提到的一點再補充一下：隨著供需失衡已經正常化，這讓我們不必只處在純粹的生產模式，而是能夠投入時間在商務關係上，進而擴大並多元化我們的產能——我們大概在 3 個季度前談過，我們會在未來 2 年——2 到 3 年內，從目前約 20 億美元的產能提升到 40 億美元。

These are mostly (inaudible) -- these are outside of China.

這些大多是（聽不清）——這些是在中國以外。

Our next question is from Quinn Bolton of Needham. Quinn.

我們下一個問題來自 Needham 的 Quinn Bolton。Quinn。

I don't want to pile on the export control questions that Matt has just asked. But I have one other clarification. You're at 40-nanometer and above, and so you're not directly affected. But my understanding is that to the extent a facility, a manufacturing facility in China has multiple process nodes, some above 16-nanometer and some below 16-nanometer that, that mixed-use facility would be affected. And so I'm just wondering for those Chinese manufacturing facilities, the fab by fab, are any of the fabs that you're running 40-nanometer and above, do they also produce 16-nanometer and below and might therefore be affected by equipment and/or support restrictions?

我不想在 Matt 剛問過的出口管制問題上再加碼。但我還有一個釐清。你們在 40 奈米及以上，所以不會直接受影響。但我的理解是，如果中國的一座製造設施同時有多個製程節點，有些在 16 奈米以上、有些在 16 奈米以下，那麼那種混用的設施會受到影響。所以我想問的是，對於那些中國的製造設施，以每座晶圓廠來看，你們在跑 40 奈米及以上的那些廠，是否也會生產 16 奈米及以下，因此可能會受到設備和／或支援限制的影響？

No. These are fab usually. They don't -- advanced fabs, okay, these are 14-nanometer below, so they don't share with this outdated fabs like 40-nanometer above. Okay, we're primarily using a 65-nanometer. So these are totally different fabs.

不會。這些通常是不同的晶圓廠。他們不會——先進晶圓廠，好嗎，那些是 14 奈米以下，所以不會跟這些較舊的晶圓廠（例如 40 奈米以上）共用。好，我們主要用的是 65 奈米。所以這些是完全不同的晶圓廠。

That's right. I just wanted to clarify because I know that as Matt said, there have been lots of questions on this topic.

沒錯。我只是想釐清，因為如同 Matt 說的，這個主題有很多問題。

Maybe one for Bernie. I know you're not guiding beyond the December quarter. But obviously, the environment is pretty soft right now, especially on orders. And so I guess as you look out beyond December, can you give us any thoughts as to whether you would see less than normal seasonality in March as some of this weakness continues into next year? And I guess the offset would be Monolithic Power has some pretty, I think, meaningful market share gains, both on the server CPU side as well as the data center GPU side. When would you think that those share gains start to kick in and might get you back to normal seasonal, if not better than seasonal patterns.

也許有一題給 Bernie。我知道你們不會對 12 月季度之後提供指引。但很明顯，目前環境相當疲弱，尤其是在訂單上。所以我想，當你往 12 月之後看，你能否談談：如果這些疲弱延續到明年，你是否會在 3 月看到低於正常的季節性？我想抵銷因素會是 Monolithic Power 在伺服器 CPU 端以及資料中心 GPU 端都有相當——我認為是顯著的市占提升。你認為那些市占提升何時會開始反映，並可能讓你回到正常季節性，甚至優於季節性的走勢？

Sure. So -- and again, Quinn, thank you for focusing on more longer-term and strategic issues here. I think it's very easy to get caught in thinking about next quarter and just the quarter after that. And everything, all the indicators that we're receiving as far as the share gains occurring in the data center are on track. Nothing has been changed there at all.

當然。所以——再一次，Quinn，謝謝你把焦點放在較長期與策略性的議題上。我覺得很容易陷入只思考下一季以及再下一季。而就我們收到的所有指標來看，資料中心的市占提升都在軌道上。那方面完全沒有任何改變。

And then as far as how we look at the next few quarters, again, when we apply cautiousness to Q4, I think we could expect that anything that -- any growth opportunities are more likely to be weighted in the second half of 2023.

至於我們如何看接下來幾個季度，再次地，當我們對 Q4 採取保守態度時，我認為可以預期：任何——任何成長機會更可能會集中在 2023 年下半年。

Yes. That's our guess. And that's all we experience. And I might as well add, you mentioned the CPUs and the CPU power, data centers, MTS is a lot more than that. And you look at 30 or -- read our script, and you have automotive and the data the enterprise data centers and other ones in communications, these are still -- all of them are growing, except the consumer-related, notebooks, gaming, those type of things.

是的。那是我們的猜測。那也是我們所經歷到的。我也補充一下，你提到 CPU 以及 CPU 供電、資料中心，MTS 遠不只如此。你看看 30 或——讀一下我們的講稿，你還有車用、企業資料中心，以及通訊等其他領域，這些仍然——除了消費相關的、筆電、遊戲這類之外，其他都在成長。

And as everybody is aware of, okay, they are softening. There are the swings from shortage to oversupplies and in kind of almost overnight. And these kind of things, we cannot predict. I mean you guys probably predict better than we know. We just have to react fast. And overall NPS business, all these greenfield products will start to ramp in the last few years and will continue to ramp.

而且大家都知道，好嗎，它們正在轉弱。供需會從短缺擺盪到供過於求，幾乎是一夜之間。這類事情我們無法預測。我的意思是，你們可能比我們更會預測。我們只能快速反應。整體 NPS 業務，所有這些綠地產品在過去幾年開始放量，並且會持續放量。

Sorry, Michael, I didn't want to shortchange it by only focusing on the data center opportunity, so.

抱歉，Michael，我不想因為只聚焦在資料中心機會而有所偏頗，所以。

Our next question is from William Stein of Truist. Will.

我們下一個問題來自 Truist 的 William Stein。Will。

I have one near-term one, and then a longer-term one. From a near-term perspective, I'm hoping you can talk about pricing trends and also how your backlog might be changing in terms of the duration of what you have on the books today versus where we've been recently? And then again, I have a sort of longer-term follow-up question, please.

我有一個短期的問題，然後一個長期的問題。從短期角度，我希望你能談談價格趨勢，以及你們的積壓訂單在「期限」方面可能如何變化——也就是今天帳上訂單所涵蓋的期間，與我們最近看到的相比如何？然後我還有一個偏長期的追問，謝謝。

For shorter terms, okay, here's what we see. For the long cycle -- longer cycle business is continued. And because there are no questions related to a price, okay? Because all the products, they will last 4, 5 years or even longer. And these products are in the ramping cycles.

就短期而言，好，我們看到的是這樣。對於長週期——較長週期的業務仍在持續。而且因為沒有與價格相關的問題，好嗎？因為所有產品會維持 4、5 年甚至更久。而這些產品正處在放量爬坡的週期中。

In shortest -- in the shorter cycle, consumer related, as I said it earlier, like on notebooks in gaming or the other personal electronics, these ones, okay, they're oversupplied. There's no question the -- we don't have any questions about the pricing. And that trouble will come in, okay later, and another quarter later, so like it will be a new project design. That's where we -- that's -- pricing was a question -- pricing will start to emerge.

簡而言之——在較短的週期裡，與消費者相關的，如我先前提到的筆電（尤其是電競）或其他個人電子產品，這些都處於供給過剩。毫無疑問——我們對定價沒有任何疑問。而那個麻煩會在之後出現，好，再晚一個季度，所以就像會有新的專案設計。那就是我們——那就是——定價曾經是個問題——定價將開始浮現。

And Will, you also mentioned backlog the sort of condition of the backlog overall. And relative to historical norms, we still remain very, very -- we're much higher than they have been historically. And what this has given us an opportunity to do is address with our customers, in fact, we've been engaged in these conversations for several quarters now on when they expect real demand to be. So I think that as far as our book of business is looking ahead, it remains very healthy.

Will，你也提到積壓訂單（backlog）整體的狀況。相較於歷史常態，我們仍然維持在非常、非常——我們比歷史水準高出許多。而這讓我們有機會與客戶溝通；事實上，我們已經連續好幾個季度在進行這些對話，討論他們預期真正需求會在何時出現。所以我認為，就我們往前看的在手訂單（book of business）而言，仍然非常健康。

Great. And then the longer-term question, I tend to ask each quarter about some of the more differentiated products and services NPS has modules in particular. I wonder about the traction of those products and whether you're seeing the uptake of that either expand or falter given the current environment?

很好。接著是長期的問題，我每一季都會問一些更具差異化的產品與服務，特別是 NPS 的模組。我想了解這些產品的進展，以及在目前環境下，你們是否看到採用度擴大或轉弱？

And then same thing with e-commerce, like you have seen more or less of that given the changing demand environment.

另外電商也是一樣，在需求環境變動下，你們看到電商的比重是增加還是減少？

Yes. Those -- all the product, the modules and the e-commerce business, we don't see any changes, and they are just continuing. And that's where NPS and future business would be, and we're even more diversified than MPS' current business.

是的。那些——所有產品、模組以及電商業務，我們沒有看到任何變化，它們只是持續推進。那也是 NPS 與未來業務所在之處，而且我們甚至比 MPS 目前的業務更加多元化。

And I think it's interesting as far as market acceptance for the modules, it really is not concentrated in any market. It's actually pretty evenly distributed against all of our markets. So that, to me, is a real clear indicator that it fits in well with our diversification strategy.

而且我覺得就模組的市場接受度而言，很有意思的是，它並沒有集中在任何單一市場；實際上在我們所有市場中分布相當平均。對我來說，這是一個非常明確的指標，顯示它與我們的多元化策略非常契合。

Yes, frankly, if you ask me, where these module goes, we don't have an ideas, and that is the beauty of it.

是的，坦白說，如果你問我這些模組會走向哪裡，我們也沒有想法，而這正是它的美妙之處。

Our next question comes from Jeremy Kwan of Stifel, Jeremy.

下一個問題來自 Stifel 的 Jeremy Kwan。Jeremy。

Can you hear me okay?

你們聽得到我嗎？

Yes.

聽得到。

Great. Just a couple of questions. First, just looking at the lighting business, it looked like it had a nice increase sequentially this quarter. Is there anything that you can call out there? Just want to understand some of the dynamics in that business.

很好。幾個問題。首先，看照明業務，這一季看起來季比有不錯的成長。這裡有什麼你們可以特別說明的嗎？我想了解這個業務的一些動態。

Automotive.

汽車。

I'm sorry, the lightning? Oh, it's automotive. Okay. That's what's been driving it?

抱歉，是照明？喔，是汽車。好，所以是汽車在帶動？

Yes. As we said in the prepared comments that there were new platforms that were launched, most of them are tied to the 2023 model year. And there were probably 3 areas, lighting being one of them, that really contributed to the uplift in the automotive in Q3.

是的。正如我們在事先準備的講稿中提到，有新的平台推出，其中大多與 2023 年式車款相關。而且大概有三個領域，照明是其中之一，確實促成了第三季汽車業務的成長。

So is this something that we can look at as a new baseline and the sort of like a steady ramp here? Or should we expect kind of more step functions with each new model here?

所以這是否可以視為新的基準，接下來會是比較穩定的爬坡？還是我們應該預期每次新車型推出時會出現比較階梯式的跳升？

Well, the lighting is in automotive lighting have a variety of and you have a downlight, you have indicators all kind of indicators you have signals. Then you have a head light, okay. And so this is the last couple of quarters you see stepping up. And that's kind of -- that's part of the greenfield product in automotive start to ramp. And the content in the cars, we're growing the content. And -- but the number of cars we have and just at the beginning, we still have a small -- very small market share. So it will continue to grow, yes.

嗯，汽車照明有各式各樣的產品：你有下照燈、各種指示燈、訊號燈，然後還有頭燈，好。過去幾個季度你看到逐步上升。這有點——這是汽車綠地（greenfield）產品開始放量爬坡的一部分。我們在車上的內容價值（content）正在增加。而且——但我們目前覆蓋的車款數量還在起步階段，我們的市占仍然很小——非常小。所以會持續成長，是的。

Got it. Great. And just turning to the long-term purchasing agreement that you talked about, Bernie, can you give us a little bit more details on this, maybe the magnitude or size of this deal, and how different is this from things -- the way you may have done business in the past. Just any more detail and help us to understand your strategic thinking behind this, that would be very helpful.

了解，很好。再談到你提到的長期採購協議（long-term purchasing agreement），Bernie，你能否提供更多細節，例如這筆交易的規模或量級？以及這與你們過去的合作方式有何不同？任何更多細節、幫助我們理解你們背後的策略思考，都會非常有幫助。

Sure. So when you think about the period of the supply-demand imbalance that we came out of, we had actually a superior competitive position because we had invested in our supply chain earlier than our competition, and that allowed us to have part availability when they didn't, and that allowed for incremental market share gains.

當然。當你回想我們剛走出供需失衡的那段期間，我們其實擁有更優越的競爭地位，因為我們比競爭對手更早投資供應鏈，這讓我們在他們缺料時仍能取得零件供應，也因此帶來額外的市占提升。

So as we continue to expand capacity, we're looking for new opportunities and with existing as well as with new fabs. And so in this instance, we wanted to secure a purchasing agreement that in order -- that gave us dedicated capacity regardless of what the economic environment was.

因此，隨著我們持續擴充產能，我們也在尋找新的機會，包含既有晶圓廠以及新的晶圓廠。在這個案例中，我們希望簽訂一份採購協議，以便——讓我們不論經濟環境如何，都能取得專屬的產能。

Got it. And then just one last question, just touching again on the modules. Can you give us any insight into the other differences in terms of the manufacturing supply chain that needs to be managed here. And in terms of whether it's sourcing or whether it's the geographic footprint, are there things that you can call out there as well?

了解。最後一個問題，再回到模組。你能否就製造供應鏈管理方面的其他差異提供一些看法？例如在採購或地理布局方面，是否有什麼也可以分享？

Most -- let me answer that way. Okay, most of our modules assembly is outside of China.

大多數——我這樣回答。好，我們的大多數模組組裝是在中國以外。

Our next question is from Rick Schafer of Oppenheimer.

下一個問題來自 Oppenheimer 的 Rick Schafer。

Rick, can you hear us?

Rick，你聽得到我們嗎？

Yes. Sorry, I was muted. Can you hear me now, Bernie?

聽得到。抱歉，我剛剛靜音了。Bernie，你現在聽得到我嗎？

Yes.

聽得到。

Great. Maybe my first one, just on supply. TSM, obviously, your newest foundry partner. I was just curious if you could kind of level set us on where you guys are at in terms of the qualification process eventual capacity ramp sort of maybe even get a sense of how much capacity they're going to have for you ultimately? And how much of that might be 8 versus 12-inch? Just trying to get a better handle on them as a partner.

很好。第一個問題，關於供應。TSM 顯然是你們最新的晶圓代工夥伴。我想請教你們目前在認證（qualification）流程、最終產能爬坡的進度大概到哪裡？甚至能否讓我們了解他們最終會提供給你們多少產能？以及其中 8 吋與 12 吋的比例？想更好掌握他們作為合作夥伴的狀況。

Yes. Most of it, we use a 12-inch. And also the advanced process of course, that seeing in the TSMC okay, we do use their advanced node. And these are for microcontrollers, that type of a product, we do use them. And these are not winning in China at all. And lot of these product are at the very, very beginning of a rank, okay? So now, we have all the capacities for the these new product. Mostly these are for automotive and communications. And so now give us a lot more room to grow.

是的。我們大多使用 12 吋。另外，先進製程當然——在台積電那邊我們確實使用他們的先進節點。這些主要用於微控制器之類的產品，我們會用他們的製程。而這些在中國完全沒有贏單。而且很多這類產品都還在非常、非常早期的爬坡階段，好。所以現在，我們已經為這些新產品取得所有產能。多數是用在汽車與通訊。因此現在給了我們更大的成長空間。

So Michael, just to kind of get a sense, I mean, is this -- could TSM be sort of a 10% contributor to capacity in, say, a year's time? Or is that too aggressive to kind of think of how quickly they could ramp?

Michael，我想再確認一下概念：台積電在一年後是否可能貢獻例如 10% 的產能？還是這樣的爬坡速度想得太積極？

It's on the lower side, okay, as we see now.

以我們目前看到的情況來說，會偏低一些，好。

And then a follow-up. I'm just curious to get an update on silicon carbide progress, particularly traction inverters. I mean how many customers you're engaged with now and when we might expect to see initial revenues. And I know you've talked about it in the past, Michael, but just kind of remind us what that dollar content for MPS looks like ex EV? And I'm assuming it would be sort of subsystem, but would anything be discrete or would that all be sort of module/subsystem?

接著追問一下。我想請你更新一下碳化矽（silicon carbide）的進展，特別是牽引逆變器（traction inverters）。你們目前與多少客戶在洽談？我們何時可能看到初期營收？我知道你過去談過，Michael，但也請你再提醒我們，MPS 在非電動車（ex EV）方面的單車價值（dollar content）大概是什麼樣子？我猜會是子系統，但是否會有任何離散元件（discrete），還是都會以模組/子系統的形式？

Yes. Thank you very much to ask that question. Yes, that kind of thing, the silicon carbides and high-power modules, okay, that's what gets me excited. And we do have our first product and go through the qualification now. It's working. And MPS is not intent to sell as a power device, as a power device only and like power sets only. We will sell -- within using our -- combined with our silicon technology, produce small modules. And we do have many customers engaged in automotive sections and also the large energy storage and as well as BMS, again, the car charging stations and those kind of things are visible, we don't have any revenue yet, okay, but it will be in the next few years.

是的。非常感謝你問這個問題。是的，像碳化矽與高功率模組這類事情，好，這正是讓我感到興奮的部分。我們已經有第一個產品，正在進行認證流程。它運作良好。而 MPS 並不打算只把它當作功率元件來賣，也不是只賣功率晶片組。我們會銷售——結合我們的矽技術，做出小型模組。我們也有許多客戶在汽車領域接洽，還有大型儲能，以及 BMS；另外像車用充電站等這些應用也都看得到。我們目前還沒有營收，好，但會在未來幾年出現。

And Michael, just a reminder just sort of what it does to content for you guys or potential content in a car or a vehicle?

Michael，再提醒一下，這對你們在車內或車輛上的內容（content）或潛在內容會帶來什麼影響？

I think these are contents that will be enormous, okay? I don't even have a -- that would be in the biddings. And I don't have a name a couple of million dollars of opportunity is a smaller side. It's a very conservative estimate. Just thinking about it, all the power trains, again, driver trains, all the charging stations, NPS is not going to make -- sell chip only, we're selling the entire systems.

我認為這些內容會非常龐大，好嗎？我甚至沒有一個——那會在投標中體現。而且我也沒有一個明確的名稱；幾百萬美元的機會其實只是比較小的一部分。這是一個非常保守的估計。光是想一想，所有的動力系統（power trains）、再一次，傳動系統（driver trains）、所有的充電站，NPS 不會只做——只賣晶片，我們賣的是整套系統。

Our next question is from Alex Vecchi of William Blair.

我們的下一個問題來自 William Blair 的 Alex Vecchi。

Bernie, maybe one for you just on a housekeeping question around gross margins. Can you elaborate a little bit on the down sequential? The only reason I'm asking is given the end market weakness and notebooks in consumer, I would have thought is lower gross margin mix. So anything you can do to help on that and how to think of it from here.

Bernie，可能有一個給你的例行問題，關於毛利率。你能否多說一點為何季比下滑？我之所以問，是因為考量到終端市場疲弱、以及消費性筆電，我原本以為會是較低毛利的產品組合所致。所以你能否協助說明一下，以及接下來該如何看待？

Sure, Alex. So there's a lot of ingredients that play into the gross margin outlook. And certainly, the direct margin by end market is a significant part of it. Another is the amount of -- I don't want to call it necessarily unused capacity, but the fixed cost that isn't necessarily absorbed by the same volume. So it's really the fixed cost issue as opposed to the sales mix that's putting a little bit of downward pressure on the gross margin.

當然可以，Alex。影響毛利率展望的因素很多。當然，按終端市場劃分的直接毛利是其中很重要的一部分。另一個因素是——我不想把它稱為未使用產能，但確實是有一些固定成本，沒有被同樣的出貨量所吸收。所以真正帶來一些毛利率下行壓力的，是固定成本問題，而不是銷售組合。

Okay. And then similarly to that extent, just to expand on Rick's questions regarding the new fab partner or TSMC. Do you view that relationship eventually being gross margin accretive or dilutive versus your Chinese partners?

好的。那同樣地，在這個脈絡下，延伸 Rick 關於新晶圓廠夥伴或台積電（TSMC）的問題。你認為這段關係最終相較於你們的中國合作夥伴，會對毛利率是增益（accretive）還是稀釋（dilutive）？

Well, these are the events to note. And we're moving that towards in the territories. And therefore, these are more microcontrollers and more highly digital content of products, and it's a different product.

嗯，這些是需要注意的事件。而我們正把它推進到相關區域。因此，這些會是更多的微控制器，以及產品中更高比例的數位內容，這是不同的產品。

And we -- there is no gross margin issues, okay? We don't go compete with the price. All the products that we add is more -- these values more in the software side.

而且我們——沒有毛利率的問題，好嗎？我們不會去做價格競爭。我們新增的所有產品更——其價值更多在軟體端。

And I think that when you look at TSMC, these are new and advanced products that we're developing with them whereas we're at the same time, doing an expansion and diversification away from China, and that would include other fabs, both in South Korea as well as in Taiwan.

我認為當你看台積電（TSMC）時，這些是我們與他們共同開發的新且先進的產品；同時，我們也在擴張並分散供應鏈、降低對中國的依賴，這也會包含其他晶圓廠，包括南韓以及台灣的晶圓廠。

Our next question is from Melissa Fairbanks of Raymond James.

我們的下一個問題來自 Raymond James 的 Melissa Fairbanks。

We saw CapEx -- maybe a little longer-term question for you. We saw CapEx dip a little in the third quarter. Maybe could you give us an update on your longer-term capacity planning, not just with TSMC, but more broadly, does the near-term demand weakness impact those longer-term plans? And then when we're looking at getting to $4 billion in revenue, what's the path to that ramp and the cadence of the investment needed to get there?

我們看到資本支出（CapEx）——可能是一個偏長期的問題。第三季 CapEx 似乎小幅下滑。你能否更新一下你們較長期的產能規劃，不只是與台積電（TSMC）相關，而是更廣泛地說，短期需求疲弱是否會影響那些長期計畫？另外，當我們看要達到 40 億美元營收時，達成那個爬坡（ramp）的路徑是什麼，以及為了達到那裡所需投資的節奏（cadence）如何？

Well, it's a -- you -- we always -- if you look at our past, okay, if you look at how we expand our capacity. What is the -- what's our investment, okay? And if you look at the past 8, 9, 12 years in -- it's the same pattern as the next 4, 5 years. And we're not going to over invest. We're not going to less invest it, okay? And so the trend, if you look at, if you're plotting our OpEx and also the growth rate, it should remain pretty constant in the past 4 years and in the past 8 years, in 12 years, in the last -- last 2 or 3 years, the growth pattern is really different from -- in the -- from previous 4 years. And whatever the growth rate we have in the next 4 years, you can use a tracking that -- you can use the same kind of percentage range.

嗯，這是——你——我們一直——如果你看我們過去，好嗎？如果你看我們如何擴充產能。我們的——我們的投資是什麼，好嗎？如果你看過去 8、9、12 年——它的模式和未來 4、5 年是一樣的。我們不會過度投資，也不會投資不足，好嗎？所以這個趨勢，如果你把我們的營業費用（OpEx）以及成長率畫出來，在過去 4 年、過去 8 年、12 年、以及最近——最近 2 或 3 年，它的成長模式其實和——在——和前 4 年不同。而未來 4 年不管我們的成長率是多少，你都可以用一個追蹤——你可以用同樣類型的百分比區間來推估。

And Melissa, keep in mind that when we do the fab expansion, the capital expenditures are borne by our partners, not directly by us. So when you look at our run rate that Michael is referring to, that's more heavily concentrated in test equipment, which can fluctuate from anywhere between $8 million per quarter to $14 million per quarter.

Melissa，請記住，當我們做晶圓廠擴產時，資本支出是由我們的合作夥伴承擔，而不是由我們直接承擔。所以當你看 Michael 提到的我們的 run rate，那更多是集中在測試設備上，而這可能每季在 800 萬美元到 1,400 萬美元之間波動。

It just so happens that we made a lot of those investments earlier in the year, and that's why we're lower. The other thing that we invest in is that we do buy or we develop our own facilities. And those can be layered on, and currently, there are no investments of any material nature.

剛好我們在今年較早的時候做了很多這類投資，所以現在看起來比較低。另一個我們會投資的項目是，我們會購買或自行開發我們自己的設施。這些也可能疊加進來，而目前沒有任何具重大規模的投資。

Yes. Let me clarify this a little more. I can rather than give you a model. NPS, we don't own the fab. We don't own fab equipment. And the cost of associating with capacity expansion, one is we have to qualify the process. And the large portion of it is to qualify our products. We have 4,000 -- over -- well over 4,000 products. And each product go through qualifications. That takes about 8 to 9 months. That cost -- that's very costly in -- so that's -- if we don't -- if we slow down and the demand slow down, so we don't have to qualify as fast, okay? And so the cost will be spread up.

是的。讓我再更清楚地說明一下。我可以——與其給你一個模型。NPS，我們不擁有晶圓廠。我們不擁有晶圓廠設備。而與產能擴張相關的成本，其中一項是我們必須完成製程認證（qualify the process）。而很大一部分是要認證我們的產品。我們有 4,000——超過——嗯，遠超過 4,000 個產品。每一個產品都要走認證流程。那大約需要 8 到 9 個月。那個成本——非常昂貴——所以——如果我們放慢、需求放緩，我們就不需要那麼快去做認證，好嗎？因此成本就會被攤開。

And those costs are borne in our R&D expenditure line.

而這些成本會反映在我們的研發（R&D）費用項下。

(Operator Instructions) As there are no further questions, I would now like to turn the webinar back over to Bernie.

（接線員指示）由於沒有進一步的問題，我現在想把網路研討會交回給 Bernie。

Thanks, Jen. I'd like to thank you all for joining us for this conference call and look forward to talking to you again during the fourth quarter conference call, which is likely to be held in early February. Thank you, and have a nice day.

謝謝你，Jen。感謝各位參加這次電話會議，也期待在第四季電話會議再與各位交流，該會議可能會在二月初舉行。謝謝，祝各位有美好的一天。