Mogo Inc (MOGO) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Mogo Finance Technologies second-quarter results conference call. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to Craig Armitage, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

早安，女士們、先生們，歡迎參加 Mogo Finance Technologies 第二季業績電話會議。（操作員指示）我現在想將會議轉交給投資者關係部門的 Craig Armitage。請繼續。

Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for joining us today. Just a few quick notes before we get started. Today’s call will contain forward-looking statements that are based on current assumptions and subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected.

謝謝大家，大家下午好。感謝您今天加入我們。在我們開始之前，請先做一些簡短的說明。今天的電話會議將包含基於當前假設的前瞻性陳述，並受到可能導致實際結果與預測有重大差異的風險和不確定性的影響。

The Company undertakes no obligation to update these statements except as required by law. Information about the risks and uncertainties are included in Mogo's Q2 filings as well as periodic filings with regulators in Canada and the United States, which you'll find on SEDAR, and you can access via the Investor Relations website as well.

除法律要求外，本公司不承擔更新這些聲明的義務。有關風險和不確定性的資訊包含在 Mogo 第二季度的文件以及向加拿大和美國監管機構提交的定期文件中，您可以在 SEDAR 上找到這些文件，也可以透過投資者關係網站存取這些資訊。

And lastly, today's session will include several adjusted financial measures or non-IFRS measures. Please consider these as a supplement to and not as a substitute for the IFRS measures, you'll see that we've included reconciliations to those in the press release and in the investor deck. And with that, I'll turn it over to Dave Feller. Dave?

最後，今天的會議將包括幾個調整後的財務指標或非國際財務報告準則指標。請將這些視為 IFRS 措施的補充而不是替代，您會看到我們已在新聞稿和投資者資料中包含了這些措施的調節。接下來，我會將其交給戴夫費勒 (Dave Feller)。戴夫？

Thanks, Craig. Thank you and good afternoon, and welcome to our second-quarter 2024 call. I'm joined today by Greg Feller, President and CFO. I'll cover some of the key operating highlights, and Greg will dig deeper into the financial results and outlook.

謝謝，克雷格。謝謝您，下午好，歡迎參加我們的 2024 年第二季電話會議。今天，總裁兼財務長格雷格·費勒 (Greg Feller) 也加入了我的行列。我將介紹一些關鍵的營運亮點，格雷格將更深入地探討財務表現和前景。

It was a solid quarter, both from a financial perspective and a product perspective. Couple of highlights include, we generated positive cash flow from operations. We had year-over-year growth in all our business lines and revenue was up 10% year over year to 17.6 million. Carta’s payment volume was up 12% to $2.8 billion. And we've also made meaningful improvements in our wealth business.

無論從財務角度還是從產品角度來看，這都是一個穩健的季度。幾個亮點包括，我們從營運中產生了正現金流。我們所有業務線均實現年成長，營收年增 10% 至 1,760 萬美元。Carta 的支付金額成長了 12%，達到 28 億美元。我們的財富業務也取得了有意義的改善。

Today, we look at our business through the lens of three key pillars. Each one has its own unique opportunity for long-term growth. I'll walk through the wealth and Greg will talk about payments crypto.

今天，我們透過三個關鍵支柱來審視我們的業務。每個人都有其獨特的長期發展機會。我將介紹財富，格雷格將討論加密支付。

Wealth industry today is estimated over $6 trillion, and that's investable assets, which include brokerage accounts, retirement accounts, RSPs, TSAs trusts, et cetera, and is a growing market. About $2 trillion of that today is sitting in mutual funds, which highlights the opportunity given mutual funds have among the highest fees, maybe as high as 2%, while 98% of professionally managed funds underperformed the S&P 500.

如今的財富產業估計超過 6 兆美元，其中可投資資產包括經紀帳戶、退休帳戶、RSP、TSA 信託等，並且是一個不斷成長的市場。如今，其中約 2 兆美元投資於共同基金，這突顯了共同基金的機會，因為共同基金的費用最高，可能高達 2%，而 98% 的專業管理基金的表現遜於標準普爾 500 指數。

For example, Canada's largest mutual fund, the RBC Select's balanced portfolio has over $53 billion in assets and has a 10-year average return of 5.8% and a management fee of 1.67% versus a 15% 10-year return for the S&P 500. Now, though you could argue that these two different kinds of portfolios, many who are in this our focus on long-term wealth creation and don't fully understand the implications. One institution is earning close to $1 billion a year off of this one fund.

例如，加拿大最大的共同基金 RBC Select 的平衡投資組合擁有超過 530 億美元的資產，10 年平均回報率為 5.8%，管理費為 1.67%，而標準普爾 500 指數的 10 年回報率為 15%。現在，儘管您可能會爭論這兩種不同類型的投資組合，但許多關注長期財富創造的人並不完全理解其中的含義。一家機構每年從這檔基金中賺取近 10 億美元的收入。

To put these returns into perspective, let's assume that you have a $10,000 investment over 50 years in the balanced fund that this rate of return, you'd get to $167,000 versus $1.8 million based on the 11% 50-year average of the S&P 500. That's almost 11 times more money.

為了正確地看待這些回報，我們假設您在平衡基金中投資了10,000 美元，超過50 年，按照該回報率，您將獲得167,000 美元，而根據標準普爾500 指數50 年平均值11% 計算，您將獲得180 萬美元。這幾乎是 11 倍的錢。

If the 10-year average of 15% holds, that number would grow to over $10 million, same amount of money invested, same time period, but radically different. Although there's no lack of investing products in the market today. The reality is the existing solutions in the marketplace just don't come close to solving the problem.

如果 15% 的 10 年平均值保持不變，那麼這個數字將增長到超過 1000 萬美元，投資金額相同，時間段相同，但情況截然不同。儘管如今市場上不乏投資產品。現實情況是，市場上現有的解決方案還遠遠無法解決問題。

Most Canadians are coming close to achieving financial freedom. Perhaps, no stack communicates this more than a recent retirement survey that showed 75% of Canadians who have yet to retire have saved less than $100,000 versus the estimated $1.7 million average that Canadian thinks they need to retire. And as we’ve just reviewed in the previous slide, it’s easy to see why so many never come close to it based on some of the products many of them get put into.

大多數加拿大人即將實現財務自由。也許，沒有什麼比最近的一項退休調查更能說明這一點了，該調查顯示，75% 尚未退休的加拿大人儲蓄不足10 萬加元，而加拿大人認為自己退休所需的平均儲蓄額為170萬加元。正如我們剛剛在上一張幻燈片中回顧的那樣，根據他們中的許多人投入的一些產品，很容易看出為什麼這麼多人從未接近過它。

We’ve developed a radically differentiated approach to solving the problem that includes a fully managed solution complemented by a self-directed one. As Warren Buffett says, being a great investor is more about temperament than intellect. And as James Clear, the author of Atomic Habits says, much of building good habits comes down to making it harder to do the things that lead to bad outcomes and make it easier to drive the behaviors lead to positive outcomes.

我們開發了一種截然不同的方法來解決問題，其中包括完全託管的解決方案和自我指導的解決方案。正如華倫·巴菲特所說，成為偉大的投資者更多的是取決於氣質而不是智力。正如《原子習慣》一書的作者詹姆斯·克利爾所說，良好習慣的養成很大程度上歸根結底是讓那些導致不良結果的事情變得更難做，並且更容易推動這些行為帶來積極的結果。

Our products are designed based on behavioral science to make it simple and engaging for anyone to develop the right investing habits while minimizing the ones that tend to lead underperformance. Most of our product improvements and road map are directly related to these behavioral improvements.

我們的產品是基於行為科學而設計的，旨在讓任何人都能簡單、有吸引力地養成正確的投資習慣，同時最大限度地減少可能導致表現不佳的習慣。我們的大多數產品改進和路線圖都與這些行為改進直接相關。

Another disruptive element of our solution is our fee structure. We offer both a fully managed solution along with a commission-free and zero FX fee self-directed investing app, along with the guidance and education investors need all for a simple, low monthly fee of $15 a month.

我們解決方案的另一個顛覆性因素是我們的費用結構。我們提供完全託管的解決方案以及免佣金和零外匯費用的自主投資應用程序，以及投資者所需的指導和教育，而每月只需支付 15 美元的簡單、低廉的月費。

As a simple comparison, if you had $100,000 in average mutual fund, your annual fee alone would be around $1,600 to $2,000 a year. And if you had $1 million with a wealth advisor, it would be around $10,000. And for the vast majority, this would all be for the privilege of underperforming and most importantly, being on track to a fraction of the wealth as possible.

簡單比較一下，如果您平均擁有 100,000 美元的共同基金，那麼您每年的年費就約為 1,600 至 2,000 美元。如果你有 100 萬美元的財富顧問，大約是 1 萬美元。對絕大多數人來說，這一切都是為了表現不佳的特權，最重要的是，盡可能獲得一小部分財富。

We're still very early days in our journey in the wealth space and continue to make solid progress every quarter, improving our value proposition through product improvements and how we market and communicate our value prop. This last quarter alone, we released 21 new updates and hundreds of improvements.

我們在財富領域的旅程還處於早期階段，每個季度都會繼續取得紮實的進展，透過產品改進以及我們行銷和傳播我們的價值支柱的方式來改善我們的價值主張。僅上個季度，我們就發布了 21 項新更新和數百項改進。

Moka is designed to be the core part of your wealth building solution. Moka is based on the proven long-term performance of the S&P 500, again, 98% of professional fund managers underperform this index and the average investor generates less than 50% of those returns.

Moka 旨在成為您財富累積解決方案的核心部分。Moka 基於標準普爾 500 指數經過驗證的長期表現，同樣，98% 的專業基金經理表現不佳，而普通投資者的回報率不到這些回報的 50%。

Today, we have 18-year-olds who are on track to over 18 million by the age of 78 and over 62 million by age 90 with just a simple $50 we contribution. It's hard to overstate how disruptive this is to the status quo. The old way would have been to have been sold into mutual funds from the bank and using much later life or perhaps download a commission-free trading app with the hopes of getting rich quick. And by the way, this is primarily done in the TFSA. So that $62 million would be equivalent to over $124 million in your RSP.

如今，我們只需簡單捐款 50 美元，我們的 18 歲年輕人預計在 78 歲時達到超過 1800 萬，到 90 歲時達到超過 6200 萬。很難誇大這對現狀的破壞性。舊的方式是從銀行將其出售為共同基金，並在以後的生活中使用，或者下載一個免佣金的交易應用程序，希望快速致富。順便說一句，這主要是在 TFSA 中完成的。因此，這 6200 萬美元相當於您的 RSP 中超過 1.24 億美元。

What's unique about our solution is we make it easy for anyone to get on a path to being a multimillion air with a specific goal in date. How many people today are that are investing know the returns and have a plan where they know what they were on track for, very few.

我們解決方案的獨特之處在於，我們讓任何人都能輕鬆走上成為擁有特定目標的數百萬空氣的道路。如今，有多少人在投資時知道回報並製定了計劃，知道自己的目標是什麼，但很少有人。

One of the unique and engaging features we launched last quarter was our new leaderboard that showcases some of our top members and help celebrate and gamified getting rich. It's also important to understand the impact of this on people today versus waiting decades to achieve their goal.

我們上季度推出的獨特且引人入勝的功能之一是我們的新排行榜，它展示了我們的一些頂級會員，並幫助慶祝和遊戲致富。同樣重要的是要了解這對當今人們的影響，而不是等待幾十年才能實現他們的目標。

Mental health is an important topic, especially for Gen-Z. And given financial stress is still the number one stressor across all demographics, nothing helps improve but more than being confident around investing in financial freedom. Although it may take decades to achieve the goal, the benefits of being confidently on a path to financial freedom and to your self-esteem and confidence are immediate.

心理健康是一個重要的主題，尤其是對 Z 世代來說。鑑於財務壓力仍然是所有人口中的頭號壓力源，除了對投資財務自由充滿信心之外，沒有什麼比這更有助於改善。儘管實現這一目標可能需要幾十年的時間，但自信地走上財務自由以及自尊和自信之路的好處是立竿見影的。

Another unique element of our wealth building platform is Mogo, our self-directed investing app. One of Buffett’s favorites quotes is that Wall Street makes more money by getting people to gamble than to invest. The fact is most of these apps have been designed to get you to trade as that’s what drives our revenue, but the data is clear. The more you trade, the more you underperform. What’s more, they would like you to believe that it’s easy to trade. And because it’s now even commission free, it’s available to everyone.

我們財富累積平台的另一個獨特元素是我們的自主投資應用程式 Mogo。巴菲特最喜歡的名言之一是，華爾街透過讓人們賭博而不是投資來賺更多的錢。事實上，這些應用程式中的大多數都是為了讓您進行交易而設計的，因為這是我們收入的推動因素，但數據是明確的。你交易的越多，你的表現就越差。此外，他們希望您相信交易很容易。而且由於它現在甚至是免佣金的，因此每個人都可以使用。

Well, the reality is the only thing that has happened is that they have made it easier than ever to gamble and speculate on stocks. Trading and gambling is easy, but serious investing that produces long-term good results is very hard.

好吧，現實是唯一發生的事情是他們使股票賭博和投機變得比以往任何時候都容易。交易和賭博很容易，但產生長期良好結果的認真投資卻非常困難。

We believe Mogo is the only self-directed investing app that is designed to actually get investors to trade less and focus more on proven long-term value investing. One of our latest features is Buffett Mode and that now makes it easier than ever for someone to learn how to invest based off the principles of the greatest investor of all time.

我們相信 Mogo 是唯一一款自主投資應用程序，旨在真正讓投資者減少交易，而更專注於經過驗證的長期價值投資。我們的最新功能之一是巴菲特模式，現在讓人們比以往任何時候都更容易學習如何根據有史以來最偉大的投資者的原則進行投資。

Buffett Mode is mostly focused on helping investors gain the knowledge, skills, and discipline needed to be a better investor while moving away from behaviors like trading and gambling that lead to losses and underperformance. These include TikTok style educational videos from Buffett himself, explaining everything from circled confidence to how we calculate intrinsic value. It’s like having Warren Buffett as your investing copilot.

巴菲特模式主要致力於幫助投資者獲得成為更好投資者所需的知識、技能和紀律，同時遠離導致損失和表現不佳的交易和賭博等行為。其中包括巴菲特本人製作的 TikTok 風格的教育視頻，解釋了從圓圈信心到我們如何計算內在價值的一切。這就像讓華倫巴菲特作為您的投資副駕駛。

Customer feedback is critical to us to helping us make sure that we’re focused on the right things, which is why one of our new features allow any user to simply shake the app and share their feedback on the product. What they like, what they don’t like, et cetera. This feedback goes directly into the slack channel but all of us, including my cell free constantly.

客戶回饋對我們至關重要，可以幫助我們確保專注於正確的事情，這就是為什麼我們的一項新功能允許任何用戶簡單地搖晃應用程式並分享他們對產品的反饋。他們喜歡什麼，不喜歡什麼，等等。這個回饋直接進入鬆弛通道，但我們所有人，包括我的手機，都一直處於空閒狀態。

Every day, we review all customer feedback and incorporate that in our plans. Accelerating this feedback loop has had a big impact on speeding up the rate at which we identify the right things to focus on.

我們每天都會審查所有客戶回饋並將其納入我們的計劃中。加速這個回饋循環對於加快我們確定要專注的正確事物的速度產生了很大的影響。

As part of our go-to-market strategy, we’ve also recently formed a key strategic partners with Postmedia to launch a new wealth section designed to help educate Canadians on the pitfalls of existing solutions in the marketplace and the impact that the right approach and strategy can have in terms of your ability to achieve financial freedom.

作為我們進入市場策略的一部分，我們最近也與Postmedia 建立了重要的策略合作夥伴，推出了一個新的財富版塊，旨在幫助加拿大人了解市場上現有解決方案的陷阱以及正確的解決方案的影響。

We also formed a partnership with Tom Lee of Fundstrat who is a frequent CNBC contributor and is widely considered one of the most thoughtful strategists on Wall Street, to give our wealth members exclusive access to his investment research and further establish us a leading platform for serious investors.

我們還與Fundstrat 的Tom Lee 建立了合作夥伴關係，他經常為CNBC 撰稿，被廣泛認為是華爾街最有思想的策略師之一，為我們的財富會員提供獨家訪問他的投資研究的機會，並進一步為我們建立一個領先的平台，投資者。

Again, we are clearly at the beginning of this journey to disrupt the wealth space in Canada, and we’re pleased with the progress we’ve made this quarter. Like investing, we are taking a long-term compounding approach. It takes a while to gain the trust and credibility as a wealth brand. And these partnerships, along with the product improvements we made this quarter are important and meaningful steps towards this. With that, I’ll turn it over to Greg.

再次強調，我們顯然正處於顛覆加拿大財富空間的旅程的開始，我們對本季的進展感到滿意。就像投資一樣，我們採取長期複利方法。作為一個財富品牌，需要一段時間才能獲得信任和信譽。這些合作夥伴關係以及我們本季所做的產品改進是朝著這一目標邁出的重要且有意義的步驟。這樣，我就把它交給格雷格。

Thanks, Dave, and good afternoon. Let me quickly discuss the two other pillars of our business, beginning with the payments business, Carta. Carta had another solid quarter as reflected by a 12% year-over-year increase in payments volume to $2.8 billion, putting them on an annual run rate of more than $10 billion.

謝謝，戴夫，下午好。讓我快速討論一下我們業務的另外兩個支柱，首先是支付業務 Carta。Carta 又一個強勁的季度表現，支付量年增 12%，達到 28 億美元，年運行率超過 100 億美元。

We continue to be very excited about this business and the long-term prospects working with exciting global customers like Plexi in France, Normandie in UK. Another major pillar of our business is our crypto-related investments, which collectively today represents close to 50% of our market cap, although importantly represents 0% of our revenue as Mogo today doesn’t have any operating businesses in crypto.

我們仍然對這項業務以及與令人興奮的全球客戶（例如法國的 Plexi、英國的 Normandie）合作的長期前景感到非常興奮。我們業務的另一個主要支柱是與加密貨幣相關的投資，目前這些投資總共占我們市值的近 50%，但重要的是，它占我們收入的 0%，因為 Mogo 目前沒有任何加密貨幣經營。

The largest of these investments is our 87 million shares in Canadian Crypto Exchange WonderFi, which is listed on the TSX. You may have seen WonderFi reported results -- Q2 results yesterday, highlighted by a $337 increase in client assets under custody to about $1.4 billion. And they’re in a strong financial position with cash and digital assets of $47 million and no debt.

其中最大的投資是我們在加拿大加密貨幣交易所 WonderFi 的 8,700 萬股股票，該交易所在多倫多證券交易所上市。您可能已經看到了 WonderFi 報告的結果——昨天的第二季度結果，其中突出顯示託管的客戶資產增加了 337 美元，達到約 14 億美元。他們的財務狀況強勁，擁有 4700 萬美元的現金和數位資產，沒有債務。

Turning to Mogo’s financials, it was another quarter of year-over-year growth of our business while delivering on a key cash flow milestone. After making some tough decisions in 2022 to accelerate our path to profitability, which resulted in a reduction of our quarterly OpEx by 50%, we’ve delivered our second consecutive quarter of year-over-year growth in Q2 of $17.6 million, up 10% year over year. The discipline on costs has continued even while returning to growth mode with OpEx flat year over year.

談到 Mogo 的財務狀況，這是我們業務又一個同比增長的季度，同時實現了關鍵的現金流里程碑。在 2022 年做出一些艱難的決定以加快實現盈利的道路後，我們的季度營運支出減少了 50%，我們在第二季度實現了連續第二個季度的同比增長 1,760 萬美元，同比增長同比增長10%。即使在營運支出同比持平的恢復成長模式的同時，對成本的約束仍在繼續。

Sequentially, marketing spend was actually down in Q2 as we are still being more focused on product improvements for wealth that Dave touched on, rather than increasing marketing, which we believe is the right balance to really build the best-in-class product and generate more viral component. We expect marketing was slowly ramp as we head into 2025, while remaining focused on growing EBITDA and manage your cash flow.

因此，第二季度的營銷支出實際上有所下降，因為我們仍然更關注戴夫提到的財富產品改進，而不是增加營銷，我們認為這是真正構建一流產品並產生收益的正確平衡。病毒成分。我們預計，隨著 2025 年的到來，行銷工作將緩慢推進，同時繼續專注於成長 EBITDA 和管理現金流。

Q2 adjusted EBITDA came in at $1.4 million, down modestly from the same period last year, but importantly, up 40% sequentially from Q1. We have also seen a substantial increase in cash flow from operations before discretionary investment and loan book.

第二季調整後 EBITDA 為 140 萬美元，比去年同期小幅下降，但重要的是，比第一季連續成長 40%。我們也看到，全權委託投資和貸款帳簿之前的營運現金流量大幅增加。

This metric was positive for the seventh consecutive quarter and rose to $3.8 million in Q2 versus $2.1 million in the prior year period, which enabled us to reach an important milestone of positive cash flow from operations, which came in at a positive $0.5 million in the quarter versus negative $1.8 million in Q2 of last year.

這項指標連續第七個季度為正值，並在第二季度升至380 萬美元，而去年同期為210 萬美元，這使我們能夠實現營運現金流為正的重要里程碑，本季營運現金流為正50 萬美元。

Dave talked about the continued improvements we are making to our wealth product, Mogo and Moka, including the significant value-enhancing updates for app. These changes will not only help our users invest and build wealth more intelligently, but they will also create a significant opportunity for Mogo to increase ARPU.

Dave 談到了我們對財富產品 Mogo 和 Moka 所做的持續改進，包括應用程式的重大增值更新。這些變化不僅將幫助我們的用戶更聰明地投資和累積財富，也將為Mogo創造增加ARPU的重大機會。

Today, our ARPU across our consumer base products is $25, while ARPU just for our wealth products is $180, which represents a huge opportunity for us to continue to increase the monetization rate of our member base of over CAD2 million.

如今，我們的消費者基礎產品的ARPU 為25 美元，而僅我們的財富產品的ARPU 為180 美元，這對我們來說是一個巨大的機會，可以繼續提高超過200 萬加元的會員基礎的貨幣化率。

We ended the quarter in a solid financial position with cash and total investments of roughly $41 million. This included combined cash and restricted cash of $1.3 million, investment portfolio of $11.6 million and marketable securities of $18.6 million.

本季結束時，我們的財務狀況穩健，現金和總投資約為 4,100 萬美元。其中包括 130 萬美元的合併現金和限制性現金、1,160 萬美元的投資組合以及 1,860 萬美元的有價證券。

Importantly, as I mentioned earlier, we had a milestone quarter with positive overall cash flow from operations. But even more broadly, if you exclude share buybacks and debt repayment, we generated positive overall cash flow after investing in financing activities in the quarter as well. We also continue to expect monetization opportunities from our investment portfolio over the next 12 months.

重要的是，正如我之前提到的，我們度過了一個具有里程碑意義的季度，營運總現金流為正。但更廣泛地說，如果排除股票回購和債務償還，我們在本季投資融資活動後也產生了正的整體現金流。我們也繼續預期未來 12 個月我們的投資組合將帶來貨幣化機會。

Turning to our outlook for fiscal year 2024. We continue to expect subscription services revenue to grow in the mid-teens for the full year, and we are also introducing adjusted EBITDA guidance for the full year of $5 million to $6 million. Lastly, I think it’s also worth highlighting that given our credit facility is on a floating rate basis, we will also see meaningful savings from any future rate reductions, which the market is currently predicting. With that, we will now open the call to questions.

轉向我們對 2024 財年的展望。我們仍然預計全年訂閱服務收入將成長到 15%左右，我們也推出了全年 500 萬至 600 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA 指引。最後，我認為還值得強調的是，鑑於我們的信貸安排是浮動利率的，我們還將看到市場目前預測的未來任何降息都會帶來有意義的節省。現在，我們將開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Adhir Kadve, Eight Capital.

（操作員指令）Adhir Kadve，八資本。

Hey guys. Good afternoon and thanks for taking my questions here. One of the things that kind of caught my eye and I thought was important in the quarter was that you guys were cash flow positive on a consolidated company level. Can you give us a sense of how you’re kind of thinking about your cash moving forward through the back half of the year?

嘿夥計們。下午好，感謝您在這裡提出我的問題。其中一件引起我注意並且我認為在本季度很重要的事情是你們在合併公司層面上的現金流為正。您能否向我們介紹一下您如何看待下半年的現金轉移？

Yes. Thank you, Adhir. And just to put a finer point on it. We were cash flow positive on a consolidated basis, excluding debt repayment and share buyback. But importantly, the point is -- the reason this was set a milestone quarter for us is cash flow -- it really starts with the cash flow from operations level, which was the first quarter since 2020 when we were not really investing in the loan book, where we actually reported positive overall cash flow from operations.

是的。謝謝你，阿迪爾。只是為了更詳細地闡述這一點。合併現金流量為正，不包括債務償還和股票回購。但重要的是，關鍵是——這對我們來說是一個里程碑季度的原因是現金流——它實際上是從營運層面的現金流開始的，這是自2020 年以來我們沒有真正投資貸款的在第一個季度書中，我們實際上報告了來自營運的正總體現金流量。

And that means that we generated enough cash from our operations to actually internally self-fund any investment made in the loan book. And then if you sort of look at the other cash flow components, excluding discretionary share buybacks and debt repayment we actually generated overall cash.

這意味著我們從營運中產生了足夠的現金，實際上可以在內部為貸款簿中的任何投資提供資金。然後，如果你看看其他現金流組成部分，不包括酌情股票回購和債務償還，我們實際上產生了總體現金。

So I think the reason this is so important is we’ve shown that we’ve got the business to a level in terms of revenue and OpEx that we can really self-sustain the business at least at a flat loan book, while continuing to invest in growing our wealth and our payments business, which continues to grow. And we have been the ability to either turn that investment dial up or down, depending on how we want to manage our cash, which will also depend on future monetization. But that really puts us in the control position as it relates to our cash and our capital use.

因此，我認為這麼重要的原因是我們已經證明我們的業務在收入和營運支出方面已經達到了一定水平，我們至少可以在固定貸款帳簿上真正自我維持業務，同時繼續投資於增加我們的財富和持續成長的支付業務。我們有能力增加或減少投資，這取決於我們想要如何管理我們的現金，這也取決於未來的貨幣化。但這確實使我們處於控制地位，因為它關係到我們的現金和資本使用。

Excellent. And then just maybe on some of those levers when it comes to the wealth business and maybe the payments business. Individually, how are you guys thinking about what you want to do with the wealth business moving forward?

出色的。然後，當涉及到財富業務，也許還有支付業務時，可能會使用其中的一些槓桿。就個人而言，你們如何看待未來財富業務的發展？

I know you said marketing will likely increase through the back half of the year. But just maybe give us some color on how to think about the wealth and the payments business individually through the back half of the year.

我知道您說過行銷活動可能會在今年下半年增加。但也許可以讓我們了解如何在今年下半年單獨思考財富和支付業務。

So I’ll talk about the payments, then Dave can talk about the wealth business. On the payments business we expect to see continued growth in the payments business, which we’ve seen consistent growth in the payments business, quite frankly, over the last -- more than over the last year. So we continue to expect continued growth in the payments business from a topline perspective.

我將討論付款，然後戴夫可以討論財富業務。在支付業務方面，我們預計支付業務將持續成長，坦白說，我們看到支付業務在過去持續成長，超過去年。因此，從營收角度來看，我們繼續預期支付業務將持續成長。

As we have mentioned previously, we are making pretty meaningful investments in the payments business, including a significant migration to the cloud. And so during that migration period, we have increased costs, and we expect by some point in Q1 for that project to be over and that will result in what we believe will be meaningful savings for us there and really get that business to a cash flow positive basis.

正如我們之前提到的，我們正在支付業務上進行相當有意義的投資，包括向雲端的重大遷移。因此，在遷移期間，我們增加了成本，我們預計該專案將在第一季的某個時候結束，這將為我們帶來有意義的節省，並真正讓該業務實現現金流積極的基礎。

So we’ve got some temporary investments we’re making on the infrastructure side that we think are the right long-term investments for that business. Again, we were still quite small in the relative scheme of things in the overall multitrillion dollar payment industry.

因此，我們在基礎設施方面進行了一些臨時投資，我們認為這些投資對該業務來說是正確的長期投資。同樣，在整個數萬億美元的支付行業中，我們的相對規模仍然很小。

We’ve got some very good customers that we have visibility on growing with them. And we think we’ve got a unique value proposition as a low-cost vendor in the space that has the ability, quite frankly, to undercut a lot of bigger players and known players out there in the market that we think will have a challenging time, matching our pricing because it will impact all the rest of the pricing.

我們擁有一些非常好的客戶，我們可以與他們一起成長。我們認為，作為該領域的低成本供應商，我們擁有獨特的價值主張，坦白說，我們有能力削弱市場上許多更大的參與者和知名參與者，我們認為這些參與者將擁有充滿挑戰的時間，匹配我們的定價，因為它將影響所有其他定價。

So we think that’s a pretty big stand-alone opportunity separate from the wealth business. And that’s -- we’re going to continue to invest and go after that opportunity. So anyway, on the wealth side, I’ll let Dave talk about our strategy there.

因此，我們認為這是一個獨立於財富業務之外的相當大的獨立機會。那就是——我們將繼續投資並抓住這個機會。所以無論如何，在財富方面，我會讓戴夫談談我們的策略。

Sure.

當然。

Sure. Yes. On the wealth side, as I mentioned in my commentary, it really is a balance between focusing on product improvements. And obviously, we live in a world today where it’s pretty clear that, in many cases, better products win, especially in a world driven by social media, referrals, word of mouth.

當然。是的。在財富方面，正如我在評論中提到的，這確實是關注產品改進之間的平衡。顯然，我們生活在當今的世界，很明顯，在許多情況下，更好的產品會獲勝，尤其是在一個由社交媒體、推薦和口碑驅動的世界中。

So we’re very hyper focused on continuing to prioritize the improvement to the product and actually make that one of the key growth drivers. As we mentioned, we did 21 releases in the last quarter that included hundreds of improvements.

因此，我們非常專注於繼續優先考慮產品的改進，並實際上使其成為關鍵的成長動力之一。正如我們所提到的，我們在上個季度發布了 21 個版本，其中包括數百項改進。

Again, every time we do this, we are focusing on measuring it based on things like the net promoter score. We believe there’s a strong correlation between a higher NPS score and stronger word of mouth, which obviously then translates into a certain percentage of your new customers coming from word of mouth.

同樣，每次我們這樣做時，我們都會根據淨推薦值等因素來衡量它。我們相信較高的 NPS 分數和較強的口碑之間存在著強烈的相關性，這顯然會轉化為一定比例的新客戶來自口碑。

Our goal is to get to a place where well over 50% of our new customers are effectively coming from word to mouth, driven by a very good product experience and value proposition. And then complemented by marketing, obviously, some of the ones that we mentioned in terms of the new partnerships this quarter, the Postmedia, one we’re really excited about. That’s literally just getting going.

我們的目標是在非常好的產品體驗和價值主張的推動下，超過 50% 的新客戶有效地透過口碑相傳。然後，顯然，行銷是我們在本季度新合作夥伴關係中提到的一些內容的補充，Postmedia，我們對此感到非常興奮。這實際上才剛開始。

We’re about to have some of our first articles go live there. They’ve got a base of over 17 million monthly active users on that platform. And their goal is to start kind of distributing this new wealth section, which again is sponsored by Mogo and Moka, that includes a bunch of both sponsored content but as well as directed editorial. And they are very much aligned on kind of the message that we’re trying to go out in the marketplace in terms of educating Canadians on the realities of the wealth building space in Canada, some of the pitfalls and obviously, that ultimately directly aligns to our product offering.

我們即將在那裡發布我們的一些第一篇文章。他們在該平台上擁有超過 1700 萬月活躍用戶。他們的目標是開始分發這個新的財富版塊，該版塊再次由 Mogo 和 Moka 贊助，其中包括大量贊助內容和定向社論。他們與我們試圖在市場上傳達的訊息非常一致，即教育加拿大人了解加拿大財富累積空間的現實、一些陷阱，顯然，這最終直接一致我們的產品。

The point I made in my commentary, which I think is a really important point is you’ve got -- really got to look at this stuff long term and everything is, again, just like investing, compounding, building trust and credibility as a trusted incredible wealth building brand obviously takes time. Part of the reason we did this strategic partnership with Tom Lee obviously comes down to that.

我在評論中提出的觀點，我認為非常重要的一點是，你真的必須從長遠角度看待這個問題，一切都像投資、複利、建立信任和信譽一樣一個值得信賴的令人難以置信的財富積累品牌顯然需要時間。我們與通李建立策略夥伴關係的部分原因顯然可以歸結為這一點。

Tom Lee, again, is a very well-respected US strategist, one of the more respected commentators that are included regularly on CNBC. And so bringing him to our member base, while it’s going to be doing several in-person events as well posted by Tom Lee in the Canadian market. And obviously, again, all of this helps to improve our positioning and establish us as kind of a trusted incredibly well building brand in the Canadian space. So we think all of that combined will continue to drive growth in the wealth business throughout the next -- the rest of the half of the year leading into 2025.

湯姆李（Tom Lee）再次成為一位非常受人尊敬的美國戰略家，也是經常出現在 CNBC 上的最受尊敬的評論員之一。因此，將他帶入我們的會員群，同時我們還將舉辦幾項現場活動，湯姆李 (Tom Lee) 在加拿大市場也發布了這些活動。顯然，所有這些都有助於改善我們的定位，並使我們成為加拿大領域值得信賴的、非常優秀的建築品牌。因此，我們認為所有這些因素加在一起將在接下來的半年（直到 2025 年）繼續推動財富業務的成長。

And maybe just one last one more of a clarification. Can you just -- I may have missed it in the opening remarks, just the ARPU that you’re seeing on the wealth products. I think you said $25 currently and can grow to about $300. Just a clarification on those two metrics.

也許只是最後一項澄清。你能不能－我可能在開場白中漏掉了你在財富產品上看到的 ARPU。我想你說的目前是 25 美元，可以成長到 300 美元左右。只是對這兩個指標的澄清。

So no, our current ARPU is actually our average ARPU of Mogo members across all our products is $25. But -- with the current pricing of our wealth product, it’s effectively an average user would bring in $180 of ARPU. So that’s the opportunity to increase that overall monetization rate.

所以不，我們目前的 ARPU 實際上是我們所有產品中 Mogo 會員的平均 ARPU 為 25 美元。但是，按照我們財富產品的當前定價，普通用戶實際上會帶來 180 美元的 ARPU。這就是提高整體貨幣化率的機會。

Excellent. That’s what I was looking for. Thanks a lot guys. Appreciate the time and I’ll pass the line.

出色的。這就是我一直在尋找的東西。非常感謝大家。珍惜時間，我會順利通過的。

Scott Buck, H.C. Wainwright Philippines.

巴克 (Scott Buck)，H.C.菲律賓溫賴特。

Hey, good afternoon, guys. Thanks for taking my questions. First, I just wanted to ask about the state of consumer credit. And then secondly, given the investments you’re making in wealth and payments -- how should we be thinking about the lending business longer term?

嘿，下午好，夥計們。感謝您回答我的問題。首先，我想問一下消費信貸的狀況。其次，考慮到您在財富和支付方面的投資，我們應該如何長期考慮貸款業務？

Okay. So yes, on the lending side, what you’ve seen is we’re -- right now, we’ve got a relatively flat loan book here, quarter over quarter. So we’re not -- we have not been aggressive in the lending space. Obviously, there’s a massive market in Canada which we believe we have an opportunity to take advantage of if we wanted to, but we’re more focused on balancing any investment there with prioritizing wealth and payments over lending.

好的。所以，是的，在貸款方面，您所看到的是，我們現在的貸款帳簿相對平穩，逐季增長。所以我們沒有——我們在貸款領域並沒有積極進取。顯然，加拿大有一個巨大的市場，我們相信，如果我們願意的話，我們有機會利用這個市場，但我們更注重平衡在那裡的任何投資，優先考慮財富和支付而不是貸款。

We do believe, though, in the long-term value of our lending business. We've been in it for 20 years. We've done over 1 million loans in Canada and have a very large proprietary database, which we think gives us a very unique advantage.

不過，我們確實相信我們貸款業務的長期價值。我們已經從事這個行業20年了。我們在加拿大已經發放了超過 100 萬筆貸款，並擁有非常大的專有資料庫，我們認為這給了我們非常獨特的優勢。

Lending is actually one of the hardest areas to get into because it takes years to build up that data and that capability. So it's probably an under-monetized asset right now that Mogo has. But again, we are prioritizing payments and wealth over that today.

貸款實際上是最難進入的領域之一，因為建立數據和能力需要數年時間。因此，Mogo 目前擁有的資產可能是貨幣化不足的資產。但同樣，我們今天優先考慮的是支付和財富。

But I think as we as we ramp those businesses up and those businesses generate more capital and give us the flexibility to grow the loan book on, we'll consider that. We've been pretty disciplined as it regards the loan book. And so we actually saw an improvement in net charge-off rates this quarter over last quarter.

但我認為，隨著我們擴大這些業務，這些業務產生更多資本，並為我們提供擴大貸款帳簿的靈活性，我們會考慮這一點。我們在貸款簿方面一直非常嚴格。因此，我們實際上看到本季的淨沖銷率比上個季度有所改善。

So I think overall, we feel comfortable about that market. Obviously, we are expecting -- the market's expecting rates to start coming down, which I think is going to going to help the average consumer, which is positive. So yes, I think that's kind of our perspective on that. I don't know if I if that was there another question there, Scott?

所以我認為總的來說，我們對這個市場感到滿意。顯然，我們預期市場的預期利率將開始下降，我認為這將有助於普通消費者，這是正面的。所以，是的，我認為這就是我們對此的看法。我不知道是否還有另一個問題，斯科特？

No, that that's helpful on that. That's really helpful. Second, I want to follow up on the Tom Lee and Fundstrat announcement. Someone who query has a lot of reach down here in the states between CNBC and whatnot. I’m curious, did you guys issue equity? Or what are the economics of this partnership?

不，這對此很有幫助。這真的很有幫助。其次，我想跟進 Tom Lee 和 Fundstrat 的公告。詢問的人在美國全國廣播公司財經頻道（CNBC）和諸如此類的地方有很多影響力。我很好奇，你們發行股票了嗎？或者說這種夥伴關係的經濟效益是什麼？

No, no equity, just effectively a marketing partnership. And so it’s a -- we’re effectively paying them fee over the next 12 months, no equity, and that will all show up in our marketing expense.

不，沒有股權，只是有效的行銷夥伴關係。因此，我們實際上是在接下來的 12 個月內向他們支付費用，沒有股本，而這一切都將體現在我們的行銷費用中。

Okay. Perfect. That’s great. And then last one, it was touched on in the prepared remarks the impact that declining interest rates could have on what you’re paying in interest expense on the credit facility. Could you put some kind of dollar figures around that so we have a sense of what that could mean on an annual basis in terms of savings?

好的。完美的。那太好了。最後一點，在準備好的發言中談到了利率下降可能對您支付的信貸額度利息費用產生的影響。您能否給出一些美元數字，以便我們了解這對每年的節省意味著什麼？

Yeah. I mean, look, right now, every 1% would mean $0.5 million of cash savings to us. So we’ve absorbed the increase in the higher rates because of our facilities on a floating rate basis. So we’ve absorbed that over the last several years.

是的。我的意思是，現在，每 1% 就意味著我們可以節省 50 萬美元的現金。因此，由於我們的設施採用浮動利率，因此我們吸收了較高利率的成長。所以我們在過去幾年已經吸收了這一點。

And so obviously, lower -- those rates coming down, give us the opportunity to get some of that back and see some of that fall to the bottom line. But it could be quite meaningful depending on how low rates go.

很明顯，利率下降，讓我們有機會收回其中的一部分，並看到其中的一部分下降到底線。但這可能非常有意義，這取決於利率有多低。

No, that's very helpful. I appreciate the time guys. Thank you.

不，這非常有幫助。我很感激你們的時間。謝謝。

Thanks.

謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) There seems to be no further questions at this time. I’d now like to turn the call back over to Dave Feller, Founder and CEO. Please go ahead.

（操作員說明） 目前似乎沒有進一步的問題。我現在想將電話轉回創辦人兼執行長戴夫費勒 (Dave Feller)。請繼續。

Well, thanks again for joining us on our Q2 update. Just also wanted to end by saying a big thank you to the entire Mogo and Carta team. The team has been working hard for the last year, but definitely in the last quarter.

好吧，再次感謝您加入我們的第二季更新。最後我還想對整個 Mogo 和 Carta 團隊表示衷心的感謝。該團隊去年一直在努力工作，但尤其是在最後一個季度。

And I think we’re starting to see a lot of the positive impacts come through in terms of just the business performance and especially where we are in some of the product priorities like wealth and payments. So again, big thank you to the team there, and we look forward to updating you after our next quarter. Thank you.

我認為我們開始看到許多積極影響體現在業務績效方面，尤其是我們在財富和支付等一些產品優先事項方面。再次非常感謝那裡的團隊，我們期待在下個季度後向您通報最新情況。謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for participating and ask that you please disconnect your lines. Have a great day.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝您的參與，並請您斷開線路。祝你有美好的一天。