Orion Digital Corp (MOGO) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Mogo Third Quarter Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) This call is being recorded on Friday, November 7, 2025. I would now like to turn the conference over to Craig Armitage. Please go ahead.

女士們、先生們，早安，歡迎參加 Mogo 第三季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）本次通話於2025年11月7日星期五進行錄音。現在我將把會議交給克雷格·阿米蒂奇。請繼續。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. Just a few quick notes before we get started. Today's call will contain forward-looking statements that are based on current assumptions and subject to risks and uncertainties. These could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected. The company undertakes no obligation to update these statements, except as required by law.

謝謝大家，大家早安。開始之前，先簡單說明幾點。今天的電話會議將包含基於當前假設的前瞻性陳述，這些陳述存在風險和不確定性。這些因素可能導致實際結果與預期結果有重大差異。除法律另有規定外，本公司不承擔更新這些聲明的義務。

Information about the risks and uncertainties are included in Mogo's Q3 filings as well as periodic filings with regulators in Canada and the United States, which you can find on SEDAR+, EDGAR and you can also access via the Mogo Investor Relations website. Lastly, today's session will include several adjusted financial measures or non-IFRS measures. Please consider these as a supplement to and not a substitute for the IFRS measures. You'll see that we've included reconciliations to those in the press release and in the investor deck that accompanies the webcast. One last note, we understand there was some difficulty accessing the webcast on the Mogo IR page today.

有關風險和不確定性的資訊包含在 Mogo 的第三季報告以及向加拿大和美國監管機構提交的定期報告中，您可以在 SEDAR+、EDGAR 上找到這些報告，也可以透過 Mogo 投資者關係網站存取這些報告。最後，今天的會議將包括幾個調整後的財務指標或非國際財務報告準則指標。請將這些視為 IFRS 指標的補充，而不是替代方案。您會看到，我們在新聞稿和網路直播附帶的投資者資料中都加入了對帳內容。最後補充一點，我們了解到今天在 Mogo IR 頁面上訪問網路直播存在一些困難。

I believe that has been updated. So just refresh your screen if you're trying to access that and you hear this and certainly, the replay will be available there. With that, I'll turn the call over to Dave Feller. Go ahead, Dave.

我相信已經更新了。所以，如果您嘗試訪問該功能時聽到此提示，請刷新螢幕，然後即可在那裡找到重播。接下來，我將把電話交給戴夫·費勒。請繼續，戴夫。

Thanks, Craig, and thanks, everyone, for joining today. Q3 was another quarter of disciplined execution and good performance across all the areas of the business. We continue to strengthen our financial foundation while advancing the most important strategic initiative in our history, the launch of our new intelligent investing platform. Key highlights include on wealth, AUM reached a record $498 million, up 22% year-over-year, and wealth revenue grew 27%. On the payments business, revenue grew 11% year-over-year, driven by continued strength in Europe.

謝謝克雷格，也謝謝各位今天到場。第三季公司各業務領域都保持了嚴謹的執行力和良好的業績。我們持續強化財務基礎，同時推動公司史上最重要的策略舉措—推出全新的智慧投資平台。重點亮點包括財富管理方面，資產管理規模達到創紀錄的 4.98 億美元，年增 22%，財富管理收入成長 27%。支付業務方面，受歐洲市場持續強勁成長的推動，營收年增 11%。

And our Bitcoin holdings rose more than 300% quarter-over-quarter. Profitability, adjusted EBITDA was $2 million, 11.6% margin. And on the back of strong platform performance, we raised our 2025 EBITDA guidance. On the balance sheet, total cash investments ended the quarter at $46 million, providing flexibility to fund growth. It was a steady high-quality quarter across the three strategic pillars, wealth, payments and Bitcoin, each compounding value and read together.

我們的比特幣持有量較上季成長超過 300%。獲利能力，調整後 EBITDA 為 200 萬美元，利潤率為 11.6%。由於強勁的平台表現，我們提高了 2025 年 EBITDA 預期。從資產負債表來看，本季末現金投資總額為 4,600 萬美元，為成長提供了資金彈性。這是一個穩定且高品質的季度，財富、支付和比特幣這三大戰略支柱各自都實現了複合增長，並且整體來看，每個支柱都取得了顯著的進步。

Over the past few years, we've been building both sides of our wealth business, Mogo focused on automated investing in MogoTrade, our self-directed trading platform. Each gave us a valuable insight into how investors behave, how they save, how they trade and how their decision impact long-term outcomes. And those insights made one thing clear, the future wasn't two separate experiences, it was one unified platform. And that's what we've built with Intelligent investing, a completely reimagined wealth platform that brings together our managed and self-directed investing under a single brand, a single architecture and a single philosophy. This isn't an update or a redesign.

過去幾年，我們一直在建立財富管理業務的兩個方面：Mogo 專注於透過我們的自主交易平台 MogoTrade 進行自動化投資。每一項都讓我們對投資者的行為、儲蓄、交易方式以及他們的決策如何影響長期結果有了寶貴的了解。這些見解清楚地顯示了一件事，未來不是兩個獨立的經驗，而是一個統一的平台。這就是我們透過智慧投資所建構的，這是一個完全重新構想的財富平台，它將我們的管理投資和自主型投資整合到一個品牌、一個架構和一個理念之下。這不是更新或重新設計。

It's a full new build from first principles, a new behavioral operating system for wealth designed to help investors perform better. Two legacy apps, Mogo and MogoTrade will now sunset as we transition fully into intelligent investing. It's a major evolution for our company, one platform, one brand and one mission to build the behavioral and technological infrastructure for disciplined generational wealth. The problem we're solving is structural. Most of the financial system is built around activity because that's what drives revenue for firms.

這是一個從零開始全新建構的財富行為作業系統，旨在幫助投資人取得更好的績效。隨著我們全面過渡到智慧投資，兩款舊版應用程式 Mogo 和 MogoTrade 將停止運作。對我們公司而言，這是一個重大變革，一個平台，一個品牌，一個使命，即建立行為和技術基礎設施，以實現有紀律的世代財富累積。我們正在解決的問題是結構性的。大部分金融體係都是圍繞著經濟活動而建構的，因為經濟活動是企業收入的驅動力。

Every trade, every fund switch, every notification is a profit event for the platform, but it usually hurts the investor. After analyzing three years of real trading data across our own platforms, we sought firsthand. Most self-directed investors don't lose because of high fees. They lose because of the behavior. Buffett and Munger have warned for years that many modern training apps look more like casinos and investing platforms.

每一筆交易、每一次資金轉換、每一次通知，對平台來說都是獲利事件，但通常會損害投資人的利益。在分析了我們自身平台三年來的真實交易數據後，我們進行了第一手調查。大多數自主投資者不會因為高額費用而虧損。他們因為這種行為而失敗。巴菲特和芒格多年來一直警告說，許多現代培訓應用程式看起來更像是賭場和投資平台。

And our data confirmed it. The industry's promise of democratizing investing through frictionless access, mission-free trading, hasn't improved outcomes. It has accelerate the problem. And with the rise of sports gambling and now prediction markets appearing alongside stocks, crypto and options trading, those same dopamine-driven mechanics are spreading faster than ever. The lines between investing, trading and betting are blurring and outcomes are getting worse.

我們的數據也證實了這一點。該行業承諾透過無摩擦的准入和無限制的交易來實現投資民主化，但結果並沒有改善投資結果。它加劇了這個問題。隨著體育博彩的興起，以及預測市場與股票、加密貨幣和選擇權交易的出現，這些由多巴胺驅動的機制正在以前所未有的速度傳播。投資、交易和賭博之間的界線越來越模糊，結果也越來越糟。

For Mogo, that's the opportunity. We have both the data and the capability to build the system that corrects this, a platform that rewards discipline, not dopamine.

對 Mogo 來說，這就是機會。我們既有數據也有能力建構一個能夠糾正這種現象的系統，一個獎勵自律而不是多巴胺的平台。

By unifying our managed and self-directed experience into intelligent investing, we are building what we believe will be the next dominant model in wealth: a platform where investors’ success drives business success. Our solution is intelligent investing, a behavioral operating system for wealth. It solves the biggest gap in modern investing. The lack of structure, feedback and discipline that keeps most investors from capturing the full power of compounding. The Investor with the right behavior, steady contributions, patience and conviction follows a calm upward compounding path that leads to generational wealth.

透過將我們的管理型和自主型投資經驗統一到智慧投資中，我們正在建立一個我們認為將成為財富領域下一個主導模式的平台：一個投資者投資成功推動企業成功的平台。我們的解決方案是智慧投資，一種財富行為作業系統。它解決了現代投資中最大的缺口。缺乏結構、回饋和紀律，使得大多數投資人無法充分發揮複利的威力。行為得當、持續投入、耐心和信念堅定的投資者，會走上一條穩定上升的複利之路，最終累積世代財富。

Most platforms push the opposite, short-term speculation and reaction that erodes returns. Intelligent investing makes disciplined inevitable by combining automation, behavioral design and market intelligence. The structure alone isn't enough. A key part of our strategy is to make this experience exciting and aspirational, to compete head-to-head with dopamine-fueled casinos. For our product and our brand, we are redefining what excitement investing means.

大多數平台都在推行相反的做法，即短期投機和反應，從而侵蝕收益。智慧投資透過結合自動化、行為設計和市場情報，使紀律性成為必然。單靠結構是不夠的。我們策略的關鍵部分是讓這種體驗令人興奮且充滿抱負，從而與以多巴胺為驅動的賭場展開正面競爭。對於我們的產品和品牌而言，我們正在重新定義「令人興奮的投資」的含義。

We are making discipline the new adrenaline, patience the new dopamine, and mastery the new status. Our members will be active, but actively learning, developing, and patient, fully engaged, not by speculation but by progress. Because the real thrill is watching discipline compound into wealth. That's what intelligent investing is built to deliver: the system that turns long-term thinking into long-term results. Today, we have members on our platform who are on track to over $50 million and $100 million.

我們正在將自律視為新的腎上腺素，將耐心視為新的多巴胺，將精通視為新的地位。我們的成員將積極參與，積極學習，不斷進步，保持耐心，全心投入，不靠猜測，而靠進步。因為真正的樂趣在於看著自律轉化為財富。這就是智慧投資旨在實現的目標：將長期思維轉化為長期成果的系統。如今，我們平台上的一些會員預計將實現超過 5000 萬美元和 1 億美元的收入。

That'’s what we mean by generational wealth, what's possible with the right approach. I wanted to walk through a few of the unique behavioral features that differentiate intelligent investing from other platforms. We've made hundreds of improvements across the experience, all designed to help investors perform better. I'll highlight just a few that best capture our behavioral design and discipline that define the platform. Let'’s start with our flagship S&P 500 portfolios.

這就是我們所說的世代財富，也就是透過正確的方法所能實現的財富。我想詳細介紹一下智慧投資與其他平台相比，有哪些獨特的行為特徵。我們對使用者體驗進行了數百項改進，所有這些改進都是為了幫助投資者取得更好的業績。我將重點介紹幾個最能體現我們平台行為設計和規範的例子。讓我們從我們的旗艦標普500指數投資組合開始。

These portfolios serve as a behavioral anchor, combining the proven performance of the S&P 500 with structure, automation, and consistency that drives better behavior. The edge isn't just being in the S&P 500, it is being in a managed disciplined way. When we compare...

這些投資組合起到行為錨的作用，將標普 500 指數的成熟表現與結構、自動化和一致性相結合，從而推動更好的行為。優勢不僅在於加入標普500指數，更在於以一種有條不紊的方式進行管理。當我們進行比較時…

You know what? It sounds like Dave got disconnected. So why don't I continue on? I'm going to turn to slide 10, which is a discussion on Carta. So Dave was really just giving an update on our new wealth intelligent investing platform and giving you some of the exciting features that are coming up on that.

你知道嗎？聽起來像是戴夫的網路連線斷線了。那我為什麼不繼續呢？接下來我要講解第 10 張投影片，內容是關於 Carta 的討論。所以戴夫其實只是在介紹我們新的智慧財富投資平台，並向大家介紹一些即將推出的令人興奮的功能。

I can tell you, everybody on the team is super excited about what we're seeing there. And I think the phrase that Dave coined of platforms being dopamine-fueled casinos are more real than ever, especially with the rise of prediction markets. So we really think the market is -- this is something that the market needs. Now I just want to turn to Carta, which is our second pillar, payments, Carta Worldwide. Carta continues to be an important strategic component of our platform, business built on long-term contracts, recurring transaction volume and trust relationships with top tier enterprise clients.

我可以告訴你，我們團隊的每個人都對我們在那裡看到的情況感到非常興奮。而且我認為戴夫創造的「平台是多巴胺驅動的賭場」這個說法比以往任何時候都更加真實，尤其是在預測市場興起之後。所以我們認為市場確實需要這樣的產品。現在我想談談 Carta，它是我們的第二個支柱，即支付，Carta Worldwide。Carta 仍然是我們平台的重要策略組成部分，我們的業務建立在與頂級企業客戶的長期合約、經常性交易量和信任關係之上。

In Q3, processing volume grew 12% year-over-year on a like-for-like basis at $2.8 billion, reflecting steady international demand and continued growth from our major customers. Today, the platform supports over 7 million end users and processes more than $12 billion in annualized volume, providing card issuing, transaction processing and settlement across multiple networks, including Visa and Mastercard. What differentiates Carta is its API-first architecture built on the Oracle Cloud. Looking ahead, we're exploring the integration of stablecoin payments within Carta's network that includes potential partnerships with leading stablecoin providers aimed at enabling faster, lower-cost, cross-border settlement and programmable payouts. This is about future proofing our infrastructure to support clients who want to move value seamlessly across both fiat and digital rails.

第三季度，以可比口徑計算，加工量年增 12%，達到 28 億美元，反映出國際需求穩定，以及主要客戶的持續成長。目前，該平台支援超過 700 萬終端用戶，年交易量超過 120 億美元，提供跨多個網路（包括 Visa 和 Mastercard）的發卡、交易處理和結算服務。Carta 的獨特之處在於其基於 Oracle 雲端建構的 API 優先架構。展望未來，我們正在探索將穩定幣支付整合到 Carta 網路中，包括與領先的穩定幣提供者建立潛在的合作夥伴關係，旨在實現更快、更低成本的跨境結算和可編程支付。這是為了讓我們的基礎設施能夠面向未來，支援那些希望在法定貨幣和數位管道之間無縫轉移價值的客戶。

And we think Carta is well positioned to become a trusted gateway of stablecoin payments as adoption accelerates. Turning to Bitcoin strategy, which represents the next evolution of our capital allocation, in July, our board approved a strategic initiative authorizing up to $50 million in Bitcoin allocation. During Q3, we increased our Bitcoin holdings by over 300%, from Q2 reaching $4.7 million, funded through excess cash from investment monetizations. Our wealth, payments, and Bitcoin initiatives together position Mogo at the crossroads of two very powerful trends: the digitization of value and the modernization of financial infrastructure. We believe this dual compounding focus of operating business and Bitcoin will be a long-term differentiator for Mogo.

我們認為，隨著穩定幣的普及，Carta 有望成為值得信賴的穩定幣支付網關。談到比特幣策略，這代表了我們資本配置的下一個發展階段。 7 月，我們的董事會批准了一項策略性舉措，授權分配高達 5,000 萬美元的比特幣。第三季度，我們的比特幣持有量較第二季度增加了 300% 以上，達到 470 萬美元，資金來自投資變現的剩餘現金。我們的財富、支付和比特幣計劃共同將 Mogo 置於兩個非常強大的趨勢的交匯點：價值數位化和金融基礎設施現代化。我們相信，這種將業務營運和比特幣發展結合的雙重策略，將成為 Mogo 的長期差異化優勢。

Now, I’ll turn to our Q3 results. Q3 was another solid quarter of execution across our three main growth pillars of wealth, payments, and Bitcoin. Each advanced meaningfully: wealth achieved record assets under management, payments delivered double-digit growth, and Bitcoin treasury strategy accelerated. Our ecosystem continues to scale across both consumer and enterprise channels. Total members in Canada reached 2.3 million, up 6%.

現在，我將介紹我們第三季的業績。第三季度，我們在財富、支付和比特幣這三大成長支柱領域又取得了穩健的進展。各項業務均取得了顯著進展：財富管理資產規模創歷史新高，支付業務實現了兩位數成長，比特幣國庫策略加速發展。我們的生態系統在消費者和企業通路上持續擴展。加拿大會員總數達 230 萬，成長 6%。

Assets under management hit a record $498 million, up 22%. On the B2B side, payments volume grew 12% year-over-year to $2.8 billion on a like-for-like basis. Adjusted total revenue grew 2% year-over-year to $17 million, but the composition of that growth continues to shift towards higher quality recurring streams. Wealth revenue rose 27%, driven by deeper adoption of managed portfolios and a higher AUM. Payments revenue increased 11%, reflecting steady transaction growth and long-term customer retention.

管理資產規模達到創紀錄的 4.98 億美元，成長 22%。在 B2B 方面，以可比口徑計算，支付額年增 12%，達到 28 億美元。調整後的總收入年增 2% 至 1,700 萬美元，但成長的組成繼續向更高品質的經常性收入流轉變。財富管理收入成長了 27%，這主要得益於管理型投資組合的更廣泛應用和更高的資產管理規模。支付收入成長了 11%，反映出交易量穩定成長和客戶長期留存率高。

These two components helped drive overall growth and adjusted subscription services revenue of 7%, underscoring the strength and durability of our mostly recurring revenue-based model. As expected, interest revenue was down 5% in the quarter following the new rate cap implemented at the start of the year. However, interest revenue was up slightly on a sequential basis, demonstrating underlying portfolio growth. Profitability remained central to our execution. In Q3, adjusted EBITDA was $2 million, representing an 11.6% margin, up sequentially from Q2 and roughly flat versus last year.

這兩個因素共同推動了整體成長，調整後的訂閱服務收入成長了 7%，凸顯了我們以經常性收入為主的模式的實力和持久性。如預期，在年初實施新的利率上限後的下一個季度，利息收入下降了 5%。然而，利息收入較上季略有成長，顯示投資組合基本面有所成長。獲利能力仍然是我們執行工作的核心。第三季調整後 EBITDA 為 200 萬美元，利潤率為 11.6%，較第二季較上季成長，與去年同期大致持平。

Net cash flow before loan book was lower year-over-year due to timing of working capital items, which were a headwind this quarter versus the same period last year. On a consolidated basis, total cash increased in the quarter by almost $7 million, reflecting the impact of portfolio monetizations. Year-to-date, total EBITDA is $5 million, and total cash flow before investment and loan investments reached $13.6 million, up from $10.4 million for the first nine months in 2024. Bottom line is, we maintain cost control even as we continue investing in platform monetization and intelligent investing rollout. Our balance sheet remains a clear differentiator for Mogo.

由於營運資本項目的時效性問題，本季貸款帳面淨現金流年減，與去年同期相比，營運資本項目對本季業績造成了不利影響。從合併層面來看，本季現金總額增加了近 700 萬美元，反映了投資組合變現的影響。截至目前，EBITDA 總額為 500 萬美元，投資和貸款投資前的總現金流量達到 1,360 萬美元，高於 2,024 年前九個月的 1,040 萬美元。總之，即使我們繼續投資於平台貨幣化和智慧投資推廣，我們也能保持成本控制。我們的資產負債表仍然是 Mogo 的一大優勢。

We ended the quarter with $46.1 million in total cash and investments, including $18 million in cash and restricted cash, $20.8 million in marketable securities, and $7.1 million in private investments. Book value stood at approximately $77.5 million, or CAD 3.24 per share, providing a strong capital foundation to execute our Bitcoin allocation strategy while maintaining liquidity and flexibility. We continue to optimize our capital structure with a focus on return on invested capital and balance sheet optionality. Turning to our outlook, we reaffirmed our 2025 revenue guidance and are raising our adjusted EBITDA outlook from $5 million to $6 million to $6 million to $7 million for the full year. This improvement reflects the operating leverage in our model and continued execution across both wealth and payment pillars.

本季末，我們持有的現金和投資總額為 4,610 萬美元，其中包括 1,800 萬美元現金和受限現金、2,080 萬美元有價證券和 710 萬美元私募投資。帳面價值約為 7,750 萬美元，即每股 3.24 加元，為執行我們的比特幣配置策略提供了堅實的資本基礎，同時保持了流動性和靈活性。我們將繼續優化資本結構，並專注於投資資本回報率和資產負債表靈活性。展望未來，我們重申了 2025 年的營收預期，並將全年調整後 EBITDA 預期從 500 萬至 600 萬美元上調至 600 萬至 700 萬美元。這項改善反映了我們模式的營運槓桿作用以及財富管理和支付兩大支柱業務的持續執行。

As we move into Q4 and 2026, our priorities remain clear: grow our recurring revenue base, maintain profitability discipline and allocate capital with a long-term mindset anchored to Bitcoin and hard asset value creation. Mogo is entering 2026 with a focused strategy, a stronger balance sheet and a platform designed for intelligent sustainable growth. With that, we will open it up to questions.

隨著我們進入第四季度和 2026 年，我們的優先事項仍然很明確：擴大經常性收入基礎，保持獲利紀律，並以比特幣和硬資產價值創造為核心，以長期思維配置資本。Mogo 以專注的策略、更強勁的資產負債表和旨在實現智慧永續成長的平台邁入 2026 年。接下來，我們將開放提問環節。

Dave, do you want to go back -- it's Craig here. Do you want to go back and do slides 8 and 9 that...

戴夫，你想回去嗎？我是克雷格。你想回去再做第 8 張和第 9 張投影片嗎？

Sure. Sorry about that. Apologies. Yes, I got cut off there. So I wanted to walk through just a few of the unique features in our new intelligent investing.

當然。抱歉。抱歉。是的，我被切斷了聯繫。因此，我想簡單介紹一下我們全新智能投資方案的一些獨特功能。

One of them is our new performance dashboard, which we see as a professional grade view for active investors. Every member will now be able to see how they're performing against the S&P 500. So they always know how they stack up to a buy-and-hold strategy. Also breaks down what's driving the results. Winners and losers by count and weight portfolio turnover, volatility and drawdown and shows how their performance ranks also versus other members.

其中之一是我們全新的業績儀錶板，我們認為它是為活躍投資者提供的專業級視圖。現在每個成員都可以看到他們的投資表現與標普500指數的比較。所以他們總是知道這些股票與買入並持有策略相比如何。此外，也分析了導致這些結果的因素。按投資組合週轉率、波動性和回撤的次數和權重統計贏家和輸家，並顯示他們的業績與其他成員相比的排名。

It also introduces a new behavioral score that connects processed outcomes, tracking things like consistency in the buy-gate process and patience in holding positions. This level of transparency is something that most platforms would never offer because it reduces training activity. But for us, it's a strategic advantage. It encourages patience, selectivity and long-term focus, the traits that drive performance and retention. It's what professionals track and now every investor can see it.

它還引入了一種新的行為評分，將處理結果聯繫起來，追蹤諸如購買流程的一致性和持有倉位的耐心等事項。這種程度的透明度是大多數平台永遠不會提供的，因為它會降低培訓活動。但對我們來說，這是一個戰略優勢。它鼓勵耐心、選擇性和長遠關注，這些特質是提升績效和留住人才的關鍵。這是專業人士關注的指標，現在每位投資人都能看到。

Next up, we have what we call the buy-gate investment memo, a professional-grade system for making better, more informed decisions. Before every purchase, members go through a structured process, the same checklist that best investors use for allocating capital: management assessment, moat and competitive advantage, investment thesis and key drivers, kill criteria, and bias check. Once complete, the platform creates an investment memo, a living record of their reasoning that can be revisited and refined over time. Even speculative buys are part of this framework, but now they’'re tracked and analyzed separately so investors can see what’'s working and what isn't. This is a system for turning decisions into data, bringing the same rigor and feedback loops used by professionals to every investor.

接下來，我們介紹所謂的“買入門檻投資備忘錄”，這是一個專業級的系統，用於做出更好、更明智的決策。每次購買前，會員都要經過結構化的流程，這是最佳投資者在分配資本時使用的相同清單：管理評估、護城河和競爭優勢、投資理念和關鍵驅動因素、淘汰標準和偏見檢查。完成後，平台會產生一份投資備忘錄，作為其推理過程的動態記錄，可以隨著時間的推移進行回顧和改進。即使是投機性購買也是這個框架的一部分，但現在它們被單獨追蹤和分析，以便投資者可以看到哪些有效，哪些無效。這是一個將決策轉化為數據的系統，它將專業人士使用的嚴謹性和回饋循環帶給每位投資者。

And these are just a few of the hundred improvements we’'ve made across the platform, each designed to make discipline inevitable and performance sustainable. We will begin the rollout of intelligent investing later this month and continue into Q1. We couldn't be more excited for our members and our new platform, and I personally am excited and proud of the great work the team has done, as they truly believe we've built a truly differentiated platform and one that really aligns with our view that the future of investing won't be won by those that deliver and drive the most activity, but ultimately, the platforms that actually deliver the best outcomes. So back to -- we'll go down to the -- back to the Q&A, Craig?

而這些只是我們在整個平台上進行的數百項改進中的一小部分，每項改進都旨在使紀律成為必然，並使績效得以持續。我們將於本月稍後開始推出智慧投資，並持續到第一季。我們為我們的會員和我們的新平台感到無比興奮，我個人也為團隊所做的出色工作感到興奮和自豪，因為他們真心相信我們已經建立了一個真正與眾不同的平台，並且真正符合我們的觀點，即投資的未來不會由那些提供和推動最多活動的人贏得，而是最終由那些真正帶來最佳結果的平台贏得。那麼，我們回到──我們回到──回到問答環節，克雷格？

(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from the line of Scott Buck from H.C. Wainwright.

（操作說明）你的第一個問題來自 H.C. Wainwright 的 Scott Buck 的詩句。

I guess, first, I wonder if you could kind of walk us through how you see the balance between growth and margins as you work from kind of where you are today at 18 or so percent to that Rule of 40.

我想，首先，我想知道您能否向我們解釋一下，您是如何看待成長和利潤率之間的平衡的，以及您是如何從目前的 18% 左右的成長率過渡到 40 法則的。

So yes, Scott, it's Greg. I think the -- our overall philosophy right now is to stay EBITDA positive, while looking to drive overall top line growth, right, I think -- and so as we roll out intelligent investing later this quarter and going into Q1, I think we are going to be in a position to have to make some more investments for that rollout. But obviously, the philosophy there is that we expect offsetting growth on any impact on EBITDA margin. But we think that's the right bias for it to drive accelerating growth, again, keeping that overall Rule of 40 framework where our goal there is to see that Rule of 40 number overall increase, again, Rule of 40 being revenue growth and adjusted EBITDA margin.

是的，史考特，我是格雷格。我認為——我們目前的總體理念是保持 EBITDA 為正，同時尋求推動整體營收成長，對吧——因此，隨著我們在本季度晚些時候和進入第一季度推出智慧投資，我認為我們將不得不為該投資的推出進行更多投資。但很顯然，我們的理念是，我們期望透過成長來抵消 EBITDA 利潤率的任何影響。但我們認為這是推動加速成長的正確方向，再次強調，要維持「40法則」的整體框架，我們的目標是看到「40法則」的各項指標整體成長，「40法則」指的是營收成長和調整後的EBITDA利潤率。

Great. That's helpful, Greg. And then on the rollout of intelligent investing, could you provide a little bit around the logistics of how you'll be rolling it out? And then you mentioned some likely increased spend. I assume that comes through the marketing line, but any additional color there would be helpful as well.

偉大的。那很有幫助，格雷格。那麼，關於智能投資的推廣，您能否簡單介紹一下具體的推廣方案？然後您提到了一些可能增加的支出。我猜想這是行銷策略的一部分，但如果能提供更多細節資訊就更好了。

Sure. It's Dave. So we're starting first with rolling out our managed solution. So again, we're moving from essentially two platforms. We had Mogo, which was our managed solution, and we had MogoTrade, which is our self-directed.

當然。是戴夫。因此，我們首先要推出我們的託管解決方案。所以，我們基本上是從兩個平台過渡過來的。我們有 Mogo，這是我們的託管解決方案；我們還有 MogoTrade，這是我們的自主解決方案。

Both of those, obviously, are still the current platforms that our users, members are on. So phase one is going to be actually rolling out the managed first. So Mogo users and everybody with a managed account will essentially transition into this new app. So they'll literally go from one day updating from the old app to the new app, which is the new intelligent investing, starting with the managed, roll that out across our member base, and then introduce and roll out the new self-directed. Everybody with an existing Mogo account will essentially log in to their existing account, but it will obviously all be on the new platform, new interface, etc.

顯然，這兩個平台目前仍然是我們的用戶和會員所使用的平台。所以第一階段其實就是先推出託管服務。因此，Mogo 用戶和所有擁有託管帳戶的用戶都將過渡到這個新應用程式。所以他們實際上會從一天之內完成從舊應用程式到新應用程式（即新的智慧投資應用程式）的更新，首先從託管投資開始，將其推廣到我們的會員群體，然後再推出和推廣新的自主投資。所有擁有 Mogo 帳戶的用戶基本上都會登入他們現有的帳戶，但顯然所有內容都將在新平台、新介面等上進行。

And the same thing on the self-directed. Everybody on the self-directed platform will log in, and their account and everything will be on this new platform. And now it will be unified into one app so we expect that this process will start this month, and it will continue into Q1. Assuming everything is going well and we are -- —obviously, there is always feedback and adjustments, and that process will continue. But we would hope by Q1, at some point in Q1, we are beginning to start progressing on the marketing front and really starting to try to get back to accelerated growth there.

自主學習也是如此。所有使用自主學習平台的用戶都將登錄，他們的帳戶和所有資訊都將轉移到這個新平台。現在它將被整合到一個應用程式中，因此我們預計這個過程將在本月開始，並將持續到第一季。假設一切進展順利，而我們也確實如此──當然，總是會有回饋和調整，這個過程將會持續下去。但我們希望到第一季度，在第一季的某個時候，我們能夠在行銷方面開始取得進展，並真正開始嘗試恢復該領域的加速成長。

Great. David. That's helpful. And I want to ask about the -- how the lending business kind of fits in with the core wealth and payments at this point? Are you sourcing customers for wealth through lending?

偉大的。大衛。那很有幫助。我想問的是－目前貸款業務與核心財富和支付業務是如何契合的？您是否正在透過貸款業務尋找財富客戶？

Or what -- I guess I'm trying to understand what the strategic fit is?

或者說——我猜我是想了解它的策略契合度是什麼？

Greg, do you want to talk about that or I can talk a little bit about that.

格雷格，你想談談這個嗎？或者我可以稍微談談這個。

Yes, go ahead.

好的，請繼續。

I mean, I'll start and Greg can add. I mean, ultimately, I think what you're seeing with a lot of these platforms, right? You take a look at Robinhood, Wealthsimple, et cetera. Everybody usually starts with a product and then continues to evolve and start adding others, right? Wealthsimple initially launched a robo-adviser, then they got into self-directed investing.

我的意思是，我先開始，格雷格可以補充。我的意思是，歸根結底，我認為你從很多這些平台上看到的，對吧？你可以看看 Robinhood、Wealthsimple 等等。大家通常都是從一款產品開始，然後不斷發展並添加其他產品，對吧？Wealthsimple 最初推出的是智能投顧服務，後來又涉足自主投資領域。

Now they're doing credit cards. Everybody eventually is getting into lending as well. So in the long run, you see lending as obviously, as I think, a key part of a lot of these platforms. And our big advantage is that we've been in the lending business from the beginning. So obviously, a lot of experience and a lot of data on the unsecured part.

現在他們開始辦理信用卡了。最終，大家都會涉足貸款業務。所以從長遠來看，我認為，借貸顯然是許多這類平台的關鍵組成部分。我們的最大優勢在於，我們從一開始就從事貸款業務。顯然，我們在不安全部分累積了大量的經驗和數據。

Some of those -- there's no question that a lot of those members, I mean, ultimately, every single individual needs to get invested, right? So we -- our goal with on the lending side is to help people go from being in debt and actually getting on a path to saving and investing, especially those that are boring typically in kind of the subprime rate. But yes, I think long-term lending, I expect, is going to be a key component of all of these platforms. And -- but for now, for us, obviously, our main focus in terms of growth drivers of the business is going to continue to be really on the payments and on the Wealth side, right? But Greg, I don't know if you want to add little more color in there.

毫無疑問，其中一些成員——我的意思是，最終，每個人都需要投入其中，對吧？因此，我們在貸款方面的目標是幫助人們擺脫債務，走上儲蓄和投資的道路，特別是那些通常處於次級貸款利率的人。是的，我認為長期貸款預計將成為所有這些平台的關鍵組成部分。但是——但就目前而言，對我們來說，顯然，就業務成長驅動因素而言，我們的主要關注點仍將真正集中在支付和財富管理方面，對吧？但是格雷格，我不知道你是否想在裡面再添加一些色彩。

Yes. I would just say that our goal for lending, look, lending we've been doing for 20 years, it's been a stable cash flow generator for us. It's been one that as I've always said, because it's not our core growth focus, we can turn those dials up and down depending on our general view and outlook on the overall environment. So our book has stayed relatively stable for a few years. So we really haven't been meaningfully growing our book.

是的。我只想說，我們貸款的目標是，你看，我們已經從事貸款業務 20 年了，它一直是我們穩定的現金流來源。正如我一直所說，因為這並非我們的核心成長重點，我們可以根據我們對整體環境的整體看法和展望來調整這些投入。因此，我們的帳面數據在過去幾年一直保持相對穩定。所以，我們的圖書銷售並沒有真正實現實質成長。

Our goal is that lending is -- right now, lending is a drag on overall revenue growth because of the rate cap impact in '25. Our goal is that revenue is not a drag on revenue growth as we moved into 2026. But that, by far, the primary driver of top line growth is coming from wealth and payments. So that's sort of how we look at it. So by definition, lending, we believe, will become a smaller and smaller percent of our overall business.

我們的目標是讓貸款——目前，由於 2025 年利率上限的影響，貸款拖累了整體收入成長。我們的目標是，在邁向 2026 年之際，營收不會拖累營收成長。但迄今為止，推動營收成長的主要動力來自財富和支付領域。所以，我們大概就是這樣看待這個問題的。因此，根據定義，我們認為貸款業務在我們整體業務中所佔的比例將會越來越小。

But continue to be a contributor of cash flow to the overall business as well. And as Dave said, strategically, there probably isn't a fintech platform out there because if -- that doesn't have it because it really at the end of the day, as you broaden out and offer more and more services and you look at what Robinhood is doing, they effectively want to become your primary bank, right, and offer all of your financial products and you cannot do that if you don't actually do lending. So lending is a strategic asset for sure in the space. What I would argue the hardest one to get into because it actually requires years and years of data and experience to be able to do that profitably. And I would say Mogo has one of the strongest databases in the sub-private space in Canada having been doing this for 20 years.

但同時也要繼續為公司整體業務貢獻現金流。正如戴夫所說，從戰略角度來看，目前可能還沒有一個金融科技平台，因為如果——它沒有，因為歸根結底，隨著你拓展業務並提供越來越多的服務，看看 Robinhood 的做法，他們實際上想成為你的主要銀行，對吧，並提供你所有的金融產品，如果你不實際開展貸款業務，你就無法做到這一點。因此，貸款無疑是該領域的一項戰略資產。我認為最難進入的領域是，因為它實際上需要多年的數據和經驗累積才能獲利。而且我認為，Mogo 在加拿大私人領域擁有最強大的資料庫之一，因為它已經在這個領域運作了 20 年。

Great. That's fair. And I appreciate the added color there. One last one. Just curious if you guys have an update on where you stand on the regulatory process in terms of being able to offer crypto trading with the new wealth platform that's rolling out?

偉大的。這很合理。我很喜歡那裡增添的色彩。最後一個。我想了解一下，關於即將推出的新財富平台能否提供加密貨幣交易服務，你們在監管流程方面目前進展如何？

Yes. So we are progressing on the whole crypto path and including partnership discussions because basically everybody that really expands into this area builds partnerships because there's a pretty broad ecosystem there. So I would say, stay tuned as we go into 2026 for announcements around progress around bringing crypto into our platform.

是的。因此，我們正在沿著整個加密貨幣發展道路前進，包括合作洽談，因為基本上所有真正拓展到這個領域的公司都會建立合作關係，因為那裡有一個相當廣泛的生態系統。所以我想說，請關注我們2026年發布的有關將加密貨幣引入我們平台進度的公告。

(Operator Instructions) There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to turn the call back over to Dave Feller for closing comments. Sir, please go ahead.

（操作說明）目前沒有其他問題。我想把電話轉回給戴夫費勒，讓他做總結發言。先生，請繼續。

Thank you. Thanks again for joining us on our Q3 call. We look forward to giving you an update in the next -- in Q1 on full year results. Thanks again.

謝謝。再次感謝您參加我們的第三季電話會議。我們期待在下一季（第一季）向您報告全年業績。再次感謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you very much for your participation. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。非常感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線了。