Mount Logan Capital Inc (MLCI) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to 180 Degree Capital Corp's second quarter 2024 financial results update call. This is Daniel Wolfe, President and Portfolio Manager of 180 Degree Capital. Kevin Rendino, our Chief Executive Officer -- Portfolio Manager, and I would like to welcome you to our call this morning.

早安，歡迎參加 180 Degree Capital Corp 2024 年第二季財務業績更新電話會議。我是 180 Degree Capital 總裁兼投資組合經理 Daniel Wolfe。我們的執行長兼投資組合經理凱文·倫迪諾 (Kevin Rendino) 和我歡迎您參加我們今天上午的電話會議。

(Event Instructions). I would like to remind participants that this call is being recorded and that we will be referring to a slide deck that we have posted on our Investor Relations website at ir.180degreecapital.com under Financial Results.

（活動說明）。我想提醒與會者，本次電話會議正在錄音，我們將參考已在投資者關係網站 ir.180degreecapital.com 的「財務結果」下發布的幻燈片。

Please turn to our presentation. This presentation may contain statements of a forward-looking nature related to future events. Statements contained in this presentation that are forward-looking events are intended to be made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

請翻到我們的簡報。本簡報可能包含與未來事件相關的前瞻性陳述。本簡報中所包含的前瞻性事件的陳述是根據 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法》的安全港條款作出的。

These forward-looking statements are subject to the inherent uncertainties in predicting future results and conditions. These statements reflect the company’s current beliefs, and a number of important factors could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed herein.

這些前瞻性陳述受預測未來結果和條件的固有不確定性的影響。這些聲明反映了公司目前的信念，許多重要因素可能導致實際結果與本文表達的結果有重大差異。

Please see the company’s filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission for a more detailed discussion of the risks and uncertainties associated with the company’s business that could affect the company’s actual results. Except as otherwise required by federal securities laws, 180 Degree Capital Corp undertakes no obligation to update or revise these forward-looking statements to reflect new events or uncertainties.

請參閱本公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，以更詳細地了解與公司業務相關的可能影響公司實際業績的風險和不確定性。除非聯邦證券法另有要求，180 Degree Capital Corp 不承擔更新或修改這些前瞻性陳述以反映新事件或不確定性的義務。

It now gives me a special pleasure to turn over the call to Kevin.

現在我非常高興地將電話轉給凱文。

Thanks, Daniel, and good morning, everyone. First off, I want to thank everyone for your generous thoughts and well wishes following my unfortunate accident a few weeks ago. And of course, Daniel and our Board for navigating turn through that announcement. The bottom line is I’m better, have been back working the last couple of weeks, and I’m very excited about that.

謝謝，丹尼爾，大家早安。首先，我要感謝大家在我幾週前不幸發生事故後給予我的慷慨關懷和良好祝愿。當然，也要感謝丹尼爾和我們的董事會引導我們發布這項公告。最重要的是我感覺好多了，過去幾週已經回來工作了，我對此感到非常興奮。

While I’m not excited to have lived through this very difficult market for the asset class that we invest in. And despite this horrendous market for small caps versus the NVIDIAs of the world, working on behalf of our shareholders is truly my happy place and I look forward to talking or seeing you all.

雖然我對於我們所投資的資產類別經歷如此艱難的市場並不感到高興。儘管與 NVIDIA 等全球巨頭相比，小型股市場表現糟糕，但為股東服務確實讓我感到快樂，我期待與大家交談或見面。

In terms of the slides and in terms of the quarter itself, our stock price unfortunately declined 11.7%. Our NAV declined 12.8%. Our stock price as a percentage of our NAV was 83% to 84%, although as you can see from our absurd current price of $3.37, it trades at a 25% discount of our June 30, end NAV, the widest value that is -- the widest margin it’s traded out since we started this seven-years ago.

就投影片和本季而言，我們的股價不幸下跌了 11.7%。我們的資產淨值下降了12.8%。我們的股價佔資產淨值的百分比為 83% 至 84%，儘管您可以從我們目前荒謬的 3.37 美元的價格中看到，它的交易價格比我們 6 月 30 日的期末資產淨值低 25%，這是自七年前開始這項業務以來的最大折扣——也是交易幅度最大的折扣。

Our cash and public related securities declined from $51.7 million or $45.5 million. Our public portfolio net value decreased by approximately $5.6 million from the prior quarter. Our largest decreases in value were Potbelly, D-Wave Quantum, Quantum Computer and comScore. Our largest increases in value were Synchronoss, Graycove, and Mama Creations. We had new positions in Aviat and Hudson, and we exited positions in Mama’s Creations and Rhyme.

我們的現金和公共相關證券從 5,170 萬美元下降到 4,550 萬美元。我們的公共投資組合淨值較上一季減少約 560 萬美元。價值跌幅最大的是 Potbelly、D-Wave Quantum、Quantum Computer 和 comScore。價值增幅最大的是 Synchronoss、Graycove 和 Mama Creations。我們在 Aviat 和 Hudson 獲得了新的職位，並且退出了 Mama’s Creations 和 Rhyme 的職位。

Our private portfolio declined slightly from the prior quarter, although it’s essentially gone and the entire future of our company resides in our ability to generate returns in our public portfolio. Everyone knows how brutal this period has been for small caps. They underperform when economic data has been weak when everyone is convinced the recession is on the horizon and why would I want to own small caps in that environment.

我們的私人投資組合較上一季略有下降，但基本上已經消失了，我們公司的整個未來取決於我們在公共投資組合中產生回報的能力。每個人都知道這段時期對於小型股來說有多殘酷。當經濟數據疲軟、每個人都確信經濟衰退即將來臨時，它們的表現就會不佳，在這種環境下，我為什麼還要持有小型股呢？

And then at the same time, they underperforming economic data is strong, convincing everyone that inflation will never recede and the fed won’t cut rates anytime soon. It’s been a maddening period since really November of 2021.

同時，他們表現不佳的經濟數據很強勁，讓每個人都相信通膨永遠不會消退，聯準會也不會很快降息。自 2021 年 11 月以來，這是一段令人抓狂的時期。

Since November of 2021, the S&P is up 22%, while the Microcap index is literally down 25% over that same period, the widest margin you can see in history. But you all know that and we have talked about it almost every quarter for the last three-years. So instead of continuing to talk about that, I’d like to talk to you about some of our positions and the constructive activism we have instituted for a number of our holdings.

自 2021 年 11 月以來，標準普爾指數上漲了 22%，而微型股指數同期卻下跌了 25%，這是史上最大的跌幅。但大家都知道這一點，而且過去三年我們幾乎每季都會談論這一點。因此，我不想繼續談論這個問題，而是想和大家談談我們的一些立場以及我們為一些控股公司採取的建設性行動。

To say the obvious, it’s been -- become one of the most absurd stock markets that I’ve seen in the last 36-years having been in the asset management business. And I only need to look at Potbelly this year as a testament to that.

顯而易見的是，它已經成為我從事資產管理業務 36 年來所見過的最荒謬的股票市場之一。我只需要看看今年的 Potbelly 就可以證明這一點。

After a wonderful turnaround off the COVID lows led by the new senior executive management team, Bob Wright and Steve Cirulis, the stock went from $1.50 near the COVID lows to almost $14 a share against the backdrop of strong comps, robust EBITDA and a new franchising strategy which hopefully will get the company to have 2,000 stores over the next 7 to 10-years.

在新的高階管理團隊 Bob Wright 和 Steve Cirulis 的帶領下，該公司股價從新冠疫情低點附近實現了扭虧為盈，在強勁的同店銷售、強勁的 EBITDA 和新的特許經營戰略的背景下，股價從接近新冠疫情低點的 1.50 美元上漲至每股近 14 美元，希望該戰略能使該公司在未來 70 家門

This year, despite essentially beating comps, EBITDA, cost savings, and new franchise agreements. And most continued good news, the stock has been cut in half, as you can see on the chart in the slide deck. It’s declined to [$7] from [$14] to a price that has allowed the company to trade at 6.5 times enterprise value to EBITDA when many of the competitors trade at 17 times or so.

今年，儘管業績基本上優於同業，但 EBITDA、成本節約和新的特許經營協議均有所提升。大多數持續的好消息是，股價已經下跌了一半，正如您在幻燈片圖表中看到的那樣。該公司股價從 [14] 美元跌至 [7] 美元，這一價格使得該公司的企業價值與 EBITDA 比率為 6.5 倍，而許多競爭對手的企業價值與 EBITDA 比率約為 17 倍。

You would look at the stock price and assume the company is missing, losing share and not being able to grow their franchising strategy, hardly been the case. It’s just an example of a small cap company performing like almost any other small-cap stocks that doesn’t have an AI business that goes down despite what has been very, very good news in 2023.

您可能會看到股價並認為該公司虧損、失去市場份額並且無法發展其特許經營策略，但事實並非如此。這只是一個例子，一家小型股公司的表現與幾乎所有其他沒有人工智慧業務的小型股公司一樣，儘管 2023 年出現了非常非常好的消息，但其股價還是下跌了。

We still own it. It’s one of our biggest holdings. We’re constructive on their ability to generate significant shareholder return over the upcoming years and eventually sell themselves to either a private equity firm or strategic at some point in the next couple of years. But again, it’s gone from $14 to $7 for no reason.

我們仍然擁有它。這是我們最大的持股之一。我們對他們在未來幾年內為股東創造可觀回報的能力充滿信心，並最終在未來幾年內將自己出售給私募股權公司或策略公司。但再次，它毫無理由地從 14 美元跌到了 7 美元。

Lastly, as part of our -- what we think are differentiated parts of our process is our constructive activism strategy. And we have ramped that up significantly on many of our holdings recently. And you can see that also in our slide deck after the Potbelly slide.

最後，作為我們的一部分——我們認為我們流程的不同部分是我們的建設性行動主義策略。最近，我們大幅提高了許多持股的持股比例。您還可以在 Potbelly 幻燈片之後的幻燈片中看到這一點。

Next slide, let me talk about two of them. Synchronoss, we have actively worked with management to improve their investor relations and their balance sheet as well as assisting with ongoing strategic alternatives evaluation. The company has returned to top line revenue growth and generation of material free cash flow. The improvement of the balance sheet through the opportunistic refinancing, deleveraging this past quarter has helped the stock price as well. And for sure, we’ll get the receipt of a $28 million tax refund.

下一張投影片，讓我談談其中的兩個。Synchronoss，我們積極與管理層合作，改善他們的投資者關係和資產負債表，並協助進行持續的策略替代方案評估。該公司已恢復營業收入成長和產生實質自由現金流。透過機會性再融資和上個季度的去槓桿，資產負債表的改善也幫助了股價上漲。當然，我們將獲得 2,800 萬美元的退稅據。

We were asked to buy this Board -- to join this Board in November of last year. We’ve been very busy since we’ve been on the Board, helping the management team run their business and also work on fixing their balance sheet and their investor relations and the stock has gone from essentially 5% to 12% since we joined.

去年 11 月，我們被要求收購董事會並加入董事會。自從我們加入董事會以來，我們一直非常忙碌，幫助管理團隊運營業務，同時還致力於修復他們的資產負債表和投資者關係，自我們加入以來，股票價格基本上從 5％ 上漲到了 12％。

This is a great example for us of our collegial collaborative activism that we do we didn’t demand to go on the Board. Instead, we were asked to go on the Board by the company as they saw that we had some skill sets that they could better use. And it’s been a great partnership since we joined the Board in November, and you can see that from the stock price.

這對我們來說是一個很好的例子，體現了我們的同事合作精神，我們並沒有要求加入董事會。相反，公司邀請我們加入董事會，因為他們認為我們擁有一些他們可以更好地利用的技能。自從我們去年 11 月加入董事會以來，我們之間的合作關係一直很好，您可以從股價上看到這一點。

The second one I wanted to talk to before I turn it over to Daniel is comScore, which has been the complete opposite of Synchronoss. We’ve written a number of public letters, which you’ve seen. We continue to pressure the preferred stockholders to demonstrate alignment with all stakeholders. It’s an awful board with a bunch of masters of the universe people that have no idea how to make a decision for the benefit of shareholders, whether it’s Charter, Cerberus or Liberty, they’ve all failed.

在交給丹尼爾之前，我想談談的第二個公司是 comScore，它與 Synchronoss 完全相反。我們已經寫了一些公開信，你們也看到了。我們繼續向優先股股東施壓，要求他們與所有利害關係人保持一致。這是一個糟糕的董事會，裡面有一群自以為是的人，根本不知道如何為股東的利益做出決策，無論是 Charter、Cerberus 還是 Liberty，他們都失敗了。

The independent directors like Bill Livek, who’ve been a part of this business for years and years and years with no strategic benefit, have no business being on the board anymore. We did nominate Matt McLaughlin as a Board member and the company did agree to put him on the board.

像比爾·利維克 (Bill Livek) 這樣的獨立董事多年來一直參與這項業務，卻沒有獲得任何戰略利益，因此不再適合留在董事會。我們確實提名 Matt McLaughlin 為董事會成員，公司也同意讓他加入董事會。

We will continue to pressure the board to do the right thing, to align themselves with shareholders and to fix the share price. They did recently announce that the pick of the annual dividends, which started last year would actually have reduced interest rate from 9.5% to 7.5% and it did remove one liquidity overhang instead of taking cash, they got it in dividends -- preferred dividends and more stock, which is better than the company spending out cash when they need the cash to grow the business.

我們將繼續向董事會施壓，要求採取正確行動，與股東保持一致並確定股價。他們最近確實宣布，從去年開始的年度股息選擇實際上將利率從 9.5% 降至 7.5%，並且確實消除了一個流動性過剩問題，他們沒有採取現金，而是以股息的形式獲得——優先股息和更多股票，這比公司在需要現金發展業務時花掉現金要好。

So we’ll continue -- what I would consider to be slightly hostile activism that this company needs. We will stand for all common shareholders by calling this management team -- this board out, whether that’s privately or publicly, and you can continue to see us leading that pressure on the company as we go forward, and we’ll come up with hopefully a reason why this company will do the right thing for common shareholders with that pressure.

因此，我們將繼續下去——我認為這家公司需要略帶敵意的行動。我們將代表所有普通股股東，呼籲這個管理團隊——這個董事會——退出，無論是私下還是公開，你們可以繼續看到我們在未來繼續向公司施加壓力，我們希望能找到一個理由，說明為什麼這家公司會在這種壓力下為普通股股東做正確的事情。

Let me turn it over to Daniel, who wants to talk about some of our other holdings and our activism.

讓我把時間交給丹尼爾，他想談談我們的其他一些資​​產和我們的行動主義。

Thanks, Kevin. I’m going to continue running through a few more names on slides four to six before handing it back to Kevin to cover the discount management program update. We talked about Intevac a lot in the past as a refresher, Intevac, or the symbol is IVAC develops tools that are critical for the manufacturing of hard disk drives. And it has a new tool that is bringing the market called the TRIO that aims to more uniformly coated glass and plastic surfaces used in everyday electronic devices as well as other applications.

謝謝，凱文。我將繼續在第四到第六張投影片上介紹幾個名字，然後再交還給凱文，讓他介紹折扣管理計畫的更新。我們過去多次討論過 Intevac，作為複習，Intevac，或者說 IVAC 的標誌，開發對於硬碟製造至關重要的工具。該公司還向市場推出了一款名為 TRIO 的新工具，旨在更均勻地塗覆日常電子設備和其他應用中使用的玻璃和塑膠表面。

IVAC reported a stronger-than-expected quarter for Q2 2024 from its hard disk drive business, given a cyclical upswing of that industry, led by adoption of its new hammer platform that enables the manufacturing of a new class of high-density disk drives.

IVAC 報告稱，由於硬碟產業週期性上升，其 2024 年第二季的業績強於預期，這得益於其採用新的 hammer 平台，該平台可以製造新型高密度磁碟機。

IVAC also has approximately 72% of its market capitalization in cash, which it plans to maintain through at least 2024, while it pushes adoption of its nutria platform. This platform is in testing with large blast coating company in Asia that works with the largest consumer electronic companies.

IVAC 還擁有約 72% 的市值以現金形式存在，該公司計劃至少在 2024 年之前保持這一水平，同時推動其 nutria 平台的普及。該平台正在與亞洲最大的消費電子公司合作的大型噴砂塗層公司進行測試。

So for IVAC, the market is currently valuing its [$45 million] to $50 million annual recurring hard disk drive business at approximately 0.6 times revenue and its TRIO business at zero or you can swap within those numbers and apply any value to TRIO, but it will reduce the value of the hard disk drive business. Given its clean balance sheet, the protection of its cash on hand and the speaking hard disk drive business that is in a cyclical upswing. We like our downside protection, and we believe there is material upside if TRIO starts to gain traction in the market.

因此，對於 IVAC 而言，市場目前對其年度經常性硬碟業務（價值 [4500 萬美元] 至 5000 萬美元）的估值約為收入的 0.6 倍，對其 TRIO 業務的估值為零，或者您可以在這些數字內進行交換並將任何價值應用於 TRIO，但這會降低硬碟業務的價值。鑑於其資產負債表清晰、手頭現金受到保護以及語音硬碟業務處於週期性上升趨勢。我們喜歡我們的下行保護，我們相信，如果 TRIO 開始在市場上獲得吸引力，那麼就會有實質的上行空間。

Aviat Networks or AVNW, is a new position that we established in the quarter. AVNW designs installed microwave routers, switches, antenna systems and network management tools as well as offers network optimization, life cycle support and managed network services.

Aviat Networks 或 AVNW 是我們在本季設立的新職位。AVNW 設計已安裝的微波路由器、交換器、天線系統和網路管理工具，並提供網路最佳化、生命週期支援和託管網路服務。

Solutions are most often found enabling private networks and deployment of Internet connectivity to areas where it is cost prohibitive to lay of optical fiber optic cables. We’ve gotten to know its CEO over a number of quarters and have been impressed by his overall execution, turning around a historically broken company.

最常見的解決方案是建立專用網路並在鋪設光纖電纜成本過高的地區部署網路連線。我們已經了解該公司執行長好幾個季度了，他的整體執行力給我們留下了深刻的印象，他成功扭轉了這家歷史上陷入困境的公司。

In Q1 ‘24, Aviat recorded a weaker-than-expected quarter due unforeseen issues with one large customer that was part of its acquisition of Pason that closed in Q4 ‘23. This was the first time in a long time that the CEO and his team missed guidance, which resulted in a material decline in the stock to prices that were very attractive to us, particularly given the fact that the balance sheet has net cash the company generates cash, and it continues to grow on all operating metrics. We also believe Aviat has a better handle on its acquisition and is set up to resume its trend of exceeding expectations.

2024 年第一季度，Aviat 的業績低於預期，原因是其在 2023 年第四季度完成的對 Pason 的收購中，與一位大客戶發生了意外問題。這是執行長及其團隊很長一段時間以來第一次未能達到預期，導致股價大幅下跌至對我們來說非常有吸引力的價格，特別是考慮到資產負債表上有淨現金，公司產生現金，並且所有營運指標都在繼續增長。我們也相信 Aviat 能夠更好地處理此次收購，並有望恢復超出預期的趨勢。

Turning to Lantronix. This is our latest example of where we believe constructive activism can lead to material appreciation and value. We have been investors in Lantronix for a long-time, and we have traded around our position throughout this time.

轉向 Lantronix。這是我們最新的例子，我們相信建設性的正向行動可以帶來物質升值和價值。我們長期以來一直是 Lantronix 的投資者，在此期間，我們一直在圍繞自己的部位進行交易。

Recently, we’ve got to know Lantronix’ new CEO, Saleel Awsare through multiple conversations, discussing both his and our expectations for the business. Lantronix is a really good company with a solid foundation that experienced significant growth in fiscal ‘24, that is fiscal ‘24, that ended June 30, ‘24, and is now set up to build on that foundation into the future.

最近，我們透過多次談話認識了 Lantronix 的新任執行長 Saleel Awsare，討論了他和我們對業務的期望。Lantronix 是一家非常優秀的公司，擁有堅實的基礎，在 2024 財年（即截至 2024 年 6 月 30 日的 2024 財年）實現了顯著增長，並且現在已準備好在此基礎上繼續發展。

As we spend more time with Saleel, we believe that he could benefit from additional skill sets on his Board of Directors, particularly around how to build an IoT business as a microcapitalization public company. Our former portfolio company, Adesto Technologies went through a similar growing pains until a successful acquisition by Dialog Semiconductor. So we thought that former members of that business could be helpful to Saleel.

隨著我們與 Saleel 相處的時間越來越長，我們相信他可以從董事會的額外技能中受益，特別是關於如何將物聯網業務打造為微型資本化上市公司。我們先前的投資組合公司 Adesto Technologies 也經歷了類似的成長煩惱，直到被 Dialog Semiconductor 成功收購。因此我們認為該公司的前成員可以為 Saleel 提供幫助。

We’ve made introductions of Adesto’s former CEO, Narbe Daracovian, and former Board member, Kevin Palatnik, to Saleel, Lantronix and then entered into a co-operation agreement whereby Lantronix agreed to nominate Narbe and Kevin to Lantronix’ Board of Directors at this next annual meeting, which will take place likely in November ‘24.

我們已將 Adesto 的前執行長 Narbe Daracovian 和前董事會成員 Kevin Palatnik 介紹給 Lantronix 的 Saleel，然後達成合作協議，Lantronix 同意在下次年度會議上提名 Narbe 和 Kevin 進入 Lantronix 董事會，下次年度會議可能於 11 月 24 日舉行。

This is a great example of how we work with management teams and boards collaboratively most of the time rather than compatibly to achieve outcomes that we believe will be in the interest of all stakeholders of the company, including 180 Degree Capital.

這是一個很好的例子，說明我們大多數時候都是以協作的方式與管理團隊和董事會合作，而不是以相容的方式，以實現我們認為符合公司所有利益相關者（包括 180 Degree Capital）利益的結果。

Lastly, I would like to talk a little bit about commercial vehicle group or CVGI. CVGI makes components primarily for commercial vehicles, including wire harnesses, seats, plastics and aftermarket parts. CVGI is another example of a company that we have treated around our position as it went through a successful turnaround led by its former CEO, where costs were rational as contracts renegotiated, and the overall approach to running the company was changed to be more proactive rather than reactive.

最後，我想談談商用車集團或 CVGI。CVGI 主要生產商用車零件，包括線束、座椅、塑膠和售後零件。CVGI 是另一個我們按照自己的立場對待的公司的例子，因為它在前首席執行官的領導下實現了成功轉型，隨著合約的重新談判，成本變得合理，公司運營的整體方式也變得更加主動而不是被動。

After a comprehensive search, James Ray, a member of CVGI’s Board, was appointed CEO of the company. James brings a strong operational background and deep knowledge of the company through this leadership position. Shortly after his appointment, the cyclical industries in which CVGI serves an experience weakness, particularly among its customers in agriculture and instruction.

經過全面搜尋，CVGI 董事會成員詹姆斯·雷 (James Ray) 被任命為該公司的執行長。詹姆斯透過這項領導職位帶來了強大的營運背景和對公司的深入了解。在他上任後不久，CVGI 服務的周期性產業就出現了疲軟，尤其是農業和教育領域的客戶。

While we initially believe this weakness was captured and was near bottom as of the end of Q1 ‘24, it continued to decline in Q2 ‘24, leading to further reduction in guidance and expose some inefficiency inefficiencies in CVGI’s business that resulted in some unforeseen restructuring costs.

雖然我們最初認為這一弱點已被抓住並且截至 2024 年第一季末已接近底部，但它在 2024 年第二季度繼續下降，導致指導進一步減少，並暴露出 CVGI 業務中的一些效率低下問題，導致了一些不可預見的重組成本。

The Q2 ‘24 report results in a substantial decline in the stock to levels that we believe are both unwarranted given the manageable debt-to-EBITDA ratio of approximately 2 times even with the reduced EBITDA guide. The company continues to generate cash and pay down debt along with using funds from pending non-core asset sales to further reduce debt. CVGI’s business is based on long-term contracts and is, therefore, relatively sticky even though there can be some delays due to overall end market cyclicality.

2024 年第二季的報告導致股價大幅下跌至我們認為不合理的水平，因為即使 EBITDA 指南降低，債務與 EBITDA 比率也保持在可控的 2 倍左右。該公司繼續產生現金並償還債務，同時利用待出售的非核心資產的資金進一步減少債務。CVGI 的業務是基於長期合同，因此，儘管由於整體終端市場週期性可能會出現一些延遲，但其業務仍然相對固定。

We believe the improvements in this business being implemented by James and his management team will set CVGI up to generate even higher than historical EBITDA margins in the future as its end markets recover, particularly agriculture and construction in the future years.

我們相信，隨著終端市場的復甦，特別是未來幾年農業和建築業的復甦，詹姆斯和他的管理團隊正在實施的這項業務的改進將使 CVGI 在未來產生比歷史更高的 EBITDA 利潤率。

We hope these summaries provide a window into how we think about our investments and the catalysts that we believe that can drive material value appreciation in the future should they occur. These slides provide our thoughts on all of our portfolio holdings at the end of Q2 ‘24, and we’d be happy to dive in to any of them with you at any time.

我們希望這些總結能讓我們了解我們如何看待我們的投資，以及我們認為未來可以推動材料價值升值的催化劑。這些投影片提供了我們對 2024 年第二季末所有投資組合的看法，我們很樂意隨時與您深入探討其中的任何內容。

Lastly, I would like to note we include additional detail on our trading during the quarter as well as operational metrics in appendix at the end of our slide deck on our website. We’re not going to go through those slides right now, we would happy to discuss them any time.

最後，我想指出的是，我們在網站幻燈片末尾的附錄中包含了有關本季交易的更多詳細資訊以及營運指標。我們現在不打算討論這些幻燈片，我們很樂意隨時討論它們。

I’ll now turn the call back over to Kevin.

我現在將電話轉回給凱文。

Thanks, Daniel. Finally, a quick update on our discount management program that we announced early in the year, late last year. The discount management program is comprised of two measurement periods, January 1, 2024, to December 31, 2024, and then January 1, 2025, to June 30, 2025.

謝謝，丹尼爾。最後，我們來簡單更新一下我們今年年初和去年年底宣布的折扣管理計劃。折扣管理計畫由兩個測量期間組成，分別為 2024 年 1 月 1 日至 2024 年 12 月 31 日，以及 2025 年 1 月 1 日至 2025 年 6 月 30 日。

If the average discount of our equity during each management period is greater than 12%, 180 Degree Capital’s Board of Directors will consider all available options, including, but not limited to, a significant expansion of our current stock buyback program up to $5 million. Cash distributions reflecting a return of capital to shareholders or a tender offer.

如果我們在每個管理期間的股權平均折扣超過 12%，180 Degree Capital 董事會將考慮所有可用的選擇，包括但不限於將我們目前的股票回購計畫大幅擴大至 500 萬美元。現金分配反映向股東返還資本或要約收購。

You can see in the chart that we have here through July 21, 2024, the average daily discount is approximately 19%. And as I said earlier, given where our share price is this morning, it’s closer to 25%, which is ludicrous if you ask me. And quite frankly, while this will be a Board decision, I am because of the share price itself, the potential upside of our portfolio at some point and the discount wondering why I’m waiting to the end of the year to ask the Board to do something rather than ask the Board today.

您可以從圖表中看到，截至 2024 年 7 月 21 日，每日平均折扣約為 19%。正如我之前所說，考慮到我們今天早上的股價，這個數字接近 25%，如果你問我，這真是太荒謬了。坦白說，雖然這將是董事會的決定，但考慮到股價本身、我們的投資組合在某個時候的潛在上漲空間以及折扣，我不明白為什麼我要等到年底才要求董事會採取行動，而不是今天就要求董事會採取行動。

So I would -- it’s not a promise, but I stand by on that as we are very sensitive to where our share price is trading and the opportunity to do this may be better now than it will be at the end of the year. But time will tell on that, and stay tuned for that, as I said.

所以我會——這不是一個承諾，但我會堅持這一點，因為我們對股價的交易位置非常敏感，現在這樣做的機會可能比年底更好。但正如我所說，時間會證明一切，請繼續關注。

With that, Daniel, I think that’s done with our formal comments. We’d be happy to take any questions by anybody right now.

丹尼爾，我想我們的正式評論就到此結束了。我們非常樂意回答任何人的提問。

(Event Instructions).

（活動說明）。

Hi Adam, go ahead.

嗨，亞當，請說。

Yes, good day Kevin. I apologize. Good day, Kevin and Daniel. I hope you are okay, I had a minor technical difficulty there. I hope you can hear me okay.

是的，凱文，你好。我很抱歉。凱文和丹尼爾，大家好。我希望你沒事，我遇到了一點小技術故障。我希望你能聽到我的聲音。

Good morning. We can.

早安.我們可以。

Great. Kevin, great to hear you search zipper. It’s really, really good thing. (technical difficulty) about three of your holdings we can draw you out a little bit from them. On comScore, obviously, you’ve been in there for quite a while, I’d call it quite energetically active with the Board for a while. Your professors on the board. From here, what does the value capture and exit trajectory options that look like (inaudible) I’d like to ask about the Intevac and (inaudible)?

偉大的。凱文，很高興聽到你搜尋拉鍊。這確實是一件非常好的事情。 （技術難題）關於您的三項資產，我們可以從中提取一些資訊。在 comScore 上，顯然你已經在那裡待了很長一段時間了，我認為你在董事會中已經非常積極地活躍了一段時間。董事會裡的教授們。從這裡開始，價值捕獲和退出軌跡選項看起來像什麼（聽不清楚）我想問 Intevac 和（聽不清楚）？

Are you cutting on a little bit? I think you asked on comScore. Look, it’s been a horrendous ownership by us. We believed at the end of the day that those three preferred holders were better -- would be better for the business than the prior situation that comScore had because they’re in the business and they wanted to own the business. What I’ve seen, unfortunately, is in activity and self-serving behavior rather than working for the benefit of not just themselves but common shareholders.

你要稍微削減一點嗎？我認為您是在 comScore 上詢問的。瞧，我們對此的所有權真是太可怕了。我們最終相信，這三家優先股股東對公司業務更有利——比 comScore 之前的狀況更有利，因為他們從事這項業務，並且希望擁有這項業務。不幸的是，我看到的是他們的活動和自私行為，而不是為了他們自己和普通股東的利益而努力。

Look, they’ve done a number of things that we wanted them to do. They haven’t done the preferred dividend or the special dividend that was available to them. They took their last dividend in stock instead of cash, which was good. They hired John, who up until the last quarter has done a really, really good job. I’d say we did not do a good job last quarter at all in terms of the guidance and the rest. They cut their comp.

你看，他們已經做了我們希望他們做的許多事情。他們沒有獲得他們可獲得的優先股股息或特別股息。他們以股票而不是現金的形式領取了最後一筆股息，這很好。他們僱用了約翰，直到上個季度為止，他的工作做得非常非常出色。我想說，就指導和其他方面而言，我們上個季度的表現根本不好。他們削減了薪酬。

The Board cut their comp. So they’ve done some things, but they haven’t done the most important thing. And so for us, the business should trade at 1 times revenue, which is sort of $370 million. And with $220 million or so of preferred getting the first money in some sort of sale, that leaves $150 million or so for common shareholders. And I think there’s 5 million shares out. So you can do the math on that. It’s infinitely higher than where less sale is.

董事會削減了他們的薪酬。所以他們做了一些事情，但還沒有做最重要的事情。因此對我們來說，該業務的交易價格應為收入的 1 倍，也就是 3.7 億美元。由於約 2.2 億美元的優先股以某種方式出售獲得了第一筆資金，因此留給普通股股東的資金約為 1.5 億美元。我認為已經發行了 500 萬股。所以你可以對此進行計算。它比銷售額較少的地方要高得多。

I mean it’s -- this price is so ludicrous to me, but they deserve it because they’ve been option in their ability to actually just make decisions that common shareholders want. So we’re just going to continue doing what we’ve done you could expect us doing that either privately or publicly. Why do I care? If I embarrass a bunch of Board members that have really heard common shareholders. it’s just very infuriating to say the least.

我的意思是——這個價格對我來說太荒謬了，但他們值得這個價格，因為他們有能力做出普通股東想要的決定。因此，我們將繼續做我們已經在做的事情，你可以期待我們私下或公開地這樣做。我為什麼關心？如果我讓一群真正聽取普通股東意見的董事會成員感到尷尬。至少可以說這是非常令人憤怒的。

But the value is there. I mean they have an excellent product. They have a good position within the industry. The data they provide for companies is useful and many of them need it. And with a market cap right now of [$35 million] or something like that, it’s just an absolutely absurd valuation, considering that it should trade at 1 times revenue and 10 times EBITDA. So that’s our story here. It’s a triple from here, Adam.

但其價值是存在的。我的意思是他們的產品非常出色。他們在業界擁有良好的地位。他們為公司提供的數據很有用，而且許多公司都需要這些數據。而現在它的市值為 3500 萬美元左右，考慮到它的交易價格應該是收入的 1 倍和 EBITDA 的 10 倍，這個估值簡直太荒謬了。這就是我們的故事。從這裡開始是三壘了，亞當。

No, understood. Okay, so let’s which gears to two better managed and governed companies, Intevac and Hudson. Intevac -- Nigel has done a nice job operationally, I think, would both agree during his tenure, and he’s done a very good job on the custom-facing, they got TRIO to market with Corning.

不，明白了。好的，那麼讓我們來看看兩家管理和管理更好的公司，Intevac 和 Hudson。Intevac——我認為，Nigel 在營運方面做得很好，在他任職期間，雙方都會同意這一點，而且他在定制方面做得非常出色，他們與康寧一起將 TRIO 推向市場。

They have some good initial traction there. They haven’t been consistently active in telling their story. And with the end markets for HDD from all the research we do actually seeing more than a cyclical upswing here, but maybe a secular upswing due to AI adoption how energetic are you with them in trying to -- I mean they have a full-time IR, how are they going to get out there and tell their story.

他們在那裡取得了一些良好的初步進展。他們並沒有持續積極地講述自己的故事。從我們所做的所有研究來看，HDD 終端市場實際上不只是周期性的上升趨勢，而且可能由於人工智慧的採用而出現長期上升趨勢，您在嘗試方面有多積極 - 我的意思是他們有一個全職的 IR，他們將如何走出去講述他們的故事。

It’s a great question. Thanks for asking. We do spend a lot of time with Nigel. I think the issue for Intevac around the hard disk drive, and I agree with you that there is a potential for a secular upswing given the need for various storage mediums, especially as -- if you’re storing something and flash is expensive. And so you need to have complementary storage alongside flash, not just using flash. So and you need it to be more adaptable and more accessible than tape.

這是一個很好的問題。謝謝你的詢問。我們確實花了很多時間與奈傑爾在一起。我認為 Intevac 的問題在於硬碟驅動器，我同意你的觀點，考慮到對各種儲存媒體的需求，存在長期上升的潛力，特別是如果你要儲存某些東西而快閃記憶體又很昂貴。因此，您需要與閃存一起使用補充存儲，而不僅僅是使用閃存。因此，您需要它比磁帶更具適應性且更易於訪問。

So at the end of the day, our disk drives definitely is a really good option to include in any solution. The problem for hard disk drive for Intevac is really. I mean, unless they start selling a lot of lean tools, which those -- I think that’s upside. I think there is the potential for that. It’s not like the industry is going through a massive capacity expansion, but they do need to upgrade their tools.

所以總而言之，我們的磁碟機絕對是任何解決方案中非常好的選擇。Intevac 硬碟確實存在問題。我的意思是，除非他們開始銷售大量精實工具，否則我認為這是有好處的。我認為有這個潛力。雖然這個行業並沒有經歷大規模的產能擴張，但他們確實需要升級他們的工具。

So we’re looking at about a $45 million to $50 million and maybe it could be a little bit higher business every year, $50 million business every year, it’s almost like an annuity, but you’re not going to see a ton of growth there, most likely. I mean it’s possible, but that’s not I don’t think anyone is looking at Intevac along those sites. It really comes down to the TRIO tool. And so that’s why we like the downside protection.

因此，我們預計該業務的年收入約為 4500 萬至 5000 萬美元，也許每年的業務會更高一些，每年 5000 萬美元，這幾乎就像年金，但很可能不會看到大量的增長。我的意思是這是有可能的，但那不是，我認為沒有人在那些網站上關注 Intevac。這實際上歸結於 TRIO 工具。這就是我們喜歡下行保護的原因。

For the upside, the Trio tool is a completely -- potentially a completely game-changing platform for the deposition of a variety of new coatings on especially consumer electronics, but other materials as well with much higher uniformity and at cost savings for the manufacturers, that really drum coders don’t provide, which is the only all their alternative option to deposit these types of coatings. So that is the upside.

好的一面是，Trio 工具是一個完全——可能完全改變遊戲規則的平台，用於在消費電子產品上沉積各種新塗層，但也可用於其他材料，塗層均勻性更高，並且為製造商節省成本，這是滾筒打碼機無法提供的，這是他們沉積這些類型塗層的唯一替代選擇。這就是好處。

And if TRIO takes off, then this -- they’re addressing a market that could be -- have a TAM in the $500 million to $1 billion or even more. It just depends on how diverse of tools that they end up getting their systems into. So that’s -- as we look at -- and we do believe that they are close hopefully, to being adopted to have an adoption of their 204 manufacturing for a consumer electronic device as a first entry point into the market.

如果 TRIO 能夠成功，那麼他們所針對的市場規模可能會達到 5 億到 10 億美元甚至更多。這僅僅取決於他們最終將他們的系統納入到何種程度的工具中。所以 — — 正如我們所看到的 — — 我們確實相信，他們已經接近被採用，並將採用他們的 204 製造技術作為消費電子設備進入市場的第一個切入點。

And then I think it can grow from there. But they need to show that. They need to prove that. And that’s what everybody is waiting for because Corning -- it has been a little bit of the goalpost getting moved and we need that to stop happening and we need them to actually get those tools adopted, which we do think it has the -- they’re on the right trajectory to do so, but we need to see it happen. Once they have that happen, I think the market will be more receptive to the story.

然後我認為它可以從那裡發展。但他們需要證明這一點。他們需要證明這一點。這就是每個人都在等待的，因為康寧——這有點像是目標被改變了，我們需要阻止這種情況發生，我們需要他們真正採用這些工具，我們確實認為他們已經——他們正走在正確的軌道上，但我們需要看到它發生。一旦他們實現了這一點，我認為市場就會更容易接受這個故事。

Yes. No, I mean, I think that’s fair of Intevac. Obviously, we have a very similar investment thesis. But when he first came in Nigel would tell the story quite a bit more and then they obviously had the operational pushouts from HDD clients, and they kind of went internally focused for a while, which is understandable. And now those seem to be kind of reversing. So do you think that you guys get out and tell their story quite a bit more over the next year than they have over the last 1.5 years?

是的。不，我的意思是，我認為 Intevac 是公平的。顯然，我們的投資論點非常相似。但是當他第一次來到這裡時，奈傑爾會講更多的故事，然後他們顯然受到了 HDD 客戶的營運推動，並且他們在一段時間內將注意力集中在內部，這是可以理解的。而現在，情況似乎有逆轉。那麼，您是否認為，與過去一年半相比，你們在接下來的一年裡會更多地講述自己的故事？

I think you could imagine, we don’t have tolerance for companies that report earnings, and you don’t hear from them again for -- until they report the next earnings. So we will -- we did this with Synchronoss as well. We felt like they needed a new Investor Relations function, which we felt for a long-time. I guess maybe we waited for -- until we were on the board to push the envelope on that.

我想你可以想像，我們無法容忍那些只報告收益的公司，直到他們報告下一次收益之前，你都不會再聽到他們的消息。所以我們會——我們也與 Synchronoss 合作做過同樣的事情。我們覺得他們需要一個新的投資人關係功能，我們很久以前就這麼認為。我想也許我們要等到——直到我們進入董事會才能推動這一進程。

And they actually did recently changed their IR. So we’re not afraid to go to management and suggest that they’re being not reflected well by either an IR firm or they’re not reflecting best for themselves. So you could imagine that we were going to be on them for that because I just don’t have tolerance for that.

他們最近確實改變了他們的 IR。因此，我們敢於向管理層指出，投資者關係公司沒有很好地反映他們的意見，或者他們沒有為自己提供最好的反映。所以你可以想像我們會因此而責怪他們，因為我對此無法容忍。

I think the other thing that I would say, Adam, is up until recently, Nigel was kind of a one-man show from an external perspective, and they just hired a new CFO, who I think will provide additional bandwidth for being able to get out and make sure the story is getting told. But we -- as Kevin said, we will make sure that they also hear from us that they need to make sure to do that.

亞當，我想說的另一件事是，直到最近，從外部角度來看，奈傑爾有點像一個人的獨角戲，他們剛剛聘請了一位新的首席財務官，我認為他將提供額外的頻寬，以便能夠走出去並確保故事得到講述。但是，正如凱文所說，我們將確保他們也聽到我們的意見，他們需要確保做到這一點。

Great color. And then finally, on Hudson, I mean, Brian has built a nice company here over a while, the CFO agree on paper looks like an upgrade time will tell in reality. But do you guys have any sense there? Are there any governance issues that you all have uncovered? Or is it really just truly kind of solid management market leader, volume stories there and eventually pricing recovers. And you get a double or more kind of investment thesis? Or is there anything more on the governance side you think is an opportunity there?

顏色很棒。最後，關於哈德森，我的意思是，布萊恩在這裡建立了一家不錯的公司，財務長在紙面上同意，看起來升級時間將在現實中證明一切。但是你們有什麼感覺嗎？你們發現了什麼治理問題嗎？或者它實際上只是一種真正穩固的管理市場領導者，有銷售故事，最終價格會恢復。您獲得了雙重或更多種投資論點嗎？或者您認為治理方面還存在哪些機會？

Daniel, I’ll let you answer that question. The one thing I’d say is you were the one who actually got this name on our brains a while ago, probably at the same price and then it obviously maybe even lower, went a lot higher last year. And we waited for its pullback to initiate a position, which is what we did last quarter in the sort [7%-ish] range. Daniel, go ahead.

丹尼爾，我讓你來回答這個問題。我想說的是，不久前你確實讓我們知道了這個名字，當時的價格可能是一樣的，但顯然可能更低，去年漲了很多。我們等待它的回調來建立部位，這就是我們上個季度在 [7% 左右] 的範圍內所做的。丹尼爾，請說。

Yes. I think we -- so I’ve enjoyed conversations with the company. I think that they are running the business the right way, haven’t found anything that causes us concern along those sides did get to chat with the new CFO recently and I think he will bring a lot of new capabilities to the company, both internally and externally. I think you will show well.

是的。我認為我們——所以我很享受與公司的對話。我認為他們正在以正確的方式經營業務，沒有發現任何讓我們擔心的問題，最近確實與新任財務長進行了交談，我認為他將為公司帶來許多新的能力，包括內部和外部。我認為你會表現得很好。

And so I’m encouraged by that. I think for Hudson, part of their issue is it’s -- a lot of the stuff is not completely in their control. And it’s going to be driven by pricing dynamics, but the way they run their business, they’ll be able to take advantage of those pricing dynamics very quickly.

所以我對此感到鼓舞。我認為對哈德森來說，他們的問題部分在於——很多事情並不完全在他們的控制範圍內。這將受到定價動態的驅動，但透過他們經營業務的方式，他們將能夠非常迅速地利用這些定價動態。

I think the other piece that I like -- that we like about Hudson is if nothing changes, absolutely nothing in terms of pricing, and they did exactly the same business next year. they will actually make more money from a P&L perspective because with -- as they burn off higher price inventory they will start -- and so in ‘25, the inventory that they’re going to be using against their sales, is going to be significantly lower cost. And so you’ll see that flow through the P&L very quickly.

我認為我喜歡的另一點——我們喜歡 Hudson 的一點是，如果沒有任何變化，在定價方面絕對沒有任何變化，那麼他們明年的生意就完全一樣。從損益表的角度來看，他們實際上會賺更多的錢，因為隨著他們消耗掉更高價格的庫存，他們將開始——因此在 2025 年，他們用於銷售的庫存成本將會顯著降低。因此，您很快就會看到該資金流經損益表。

And that’s, again, with no change in the market. And there are dynamics as we all know, around the restrictions on virgin new HFCs being produced. And so -- and there are mandates coming on the reclaim side and using reclaim within certain government industry -- government and other industries. And so there are a lot of potential tailwinds. We’ve been lagging into the stock slowly to some extent because the timing is the question around there.

並且，這還是在市場沒有任何變化的情況下。眾所周知，對生產原生氫氟碳化合物 (HFC) 的限制存在動態。因此，在回收方面有強制性規定，並在某些政府行業（政府和其他行業）內使用回收。因此存在著許多潛在的順風因素。我們進入該股票市場的速度在某種程度上有所滯後，因為關鍵問題是時機。

We do believe it will happen. But there are a lot of extraneous factors around the cost side that they don’t control, but they are running their business to run profitably regardless of whether those costs remain depressed as they are right now.

我們確實相信它會發生。但在成本方面，有許多他們無法控制的外部因素，但無論這些成本是否像現在這樣保持低迷，他們都在經營業務以實現盈利。

The only thing I’d say -- sorry, no governance issues. But I will tell you from the time we started the thing I think we reason why we passed the first time we felt like every time we talk to them, they were being so secretive about their business, we actually couldn’t understand it. And we didn’t understand why they were being so secretive. They were not very forthcoming with their answers and we feel like they’ve gotten a little more receptive to having, I’d say, better conversations about their business so we can understand it a little more.

我唯一想說的是──抱歉，沒有治理問題。但我會告訴你，從我們開始做這件事的時候起，我認為我們第一次失敗的原因是我們覺得每次我們和他們交談時，他們都對他們的業務如此保密，我們實際上無法理解。我們不明白他們為何如此保密。他們並沒有非常樂意回答問題，我們感覺他們已經更願意接受有關他們業務的更好的對話，以便我們能夠更多地了解他們。

Terrifically helpful call. Thank you.

非常有幫助的電話。謝謝。

Thanks Adam for everything.

感謝亞當所做的一切。

Thanks Adam. Our next question comes from David Malee. Hi, David.

謝謝亞當。下一個問題來自 David Malee。你好，大衛。

I have a question about sort of the pipeline of new ideas. I know for me, there’s -- I have too many ideas. So I’m wondering if the market is down, are you looking at new opportunities, both in terms of seeing things that are cheap and also where you think constructive activism could be helpful. And how are you balancing that versus staying concentrated and knowing the names that you are in and have a good thesis on all of them.

我有一個關於新想法管道的問題。我知道，對我來說，我有太多想法了。所以我想知道，如果市場低迷，您是否正在尋找新的機會，既尋找便宜的東西，也尋找建設性的積極行動可能有幫助的東西。您如何在保持專注、了解自己所屬的領域並對所有領域都有好的論點之間取得平衡？

Yeah. Great question. One of my great things that I’ve utilized since 1990 was the definition of a bear market is when you run out of money before you run out of good ideas. And just like you, I have so many good ideas and not a lot of money to invest in them. So it’s one of the reasons why we love Mama’s Creations, it’s been -- it was a great stock for us. It was from [250 to 750].

是的。好問題。我自 1990 年以來一直運用的一個偉大原則是，熊市的定義是，在你耗盡好主意之前，你的錢就已經耗盡了。和您一樣，我有很多好主意，但卻沒有太多資金去投資。所以這也是我們喜歡 Mama’s Creations 的原因之一，它對我們來說是一支很棒的股票。它來自[250到750]。

But one the reasons why we sold it was because we wanted to own Aviat, and we wanted to own Hudson. So you’ve got to find the money from some place. And so there’s been a bit of portfolio adjusting from some of our bigger holdings in order to find those new positions.

但我們出售它的原因之一是因為我們想要擁有 Aviat，我們想擁有 Hudson。所以你必須從某個地方找到錢。因此，我們對一些較大的持股進行了一些投資組合調整，以找到新的部位。

So yes, our pipeline is probably as long as yours. It’s just a matter of what am I going to do? I’m not selling Potbelly here for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Synchronoss were on the board. It’s actually working for the first time in a long time. comScore, I’m not selling here. And those are gigantic holdings for us. I want to own more Lantronix. I want to own more CVGI. They’re sitting at Lowe’s. We’re not going to find the money from there. Brightcove is another one. It’s and absolutely idiotic valuation. I think it trades at 4 times or 5 times EBITDA.

所以是的，我們的管道可能和你們的一樣長。問題只是我要做什麼？由於我之前提到的原因，我不會在這裡銷售 Potbelly。Synchronoss 在董事會中。事實上，這是很長一段時間以來它第一次發揮作用。 comScore，我不在這裡銷售。對我們來說，這些都是巨大的財富。我想擁有更多 Lantronix。我想擁有更多 CVGI。他們正坐在 Lowe's 商店裡。我們不會從那裡找到錢。Brightcove 是另一個例子。這絕對是愚蠢的估值。我認為它的交易價格是 EBITDA 的 4 倍或 5 倍。

And like $0.2 revenue.

收入約為 0.2 美元。

It’s crazy. It’s the same. So I want to own more of that, but I’ve got to find the money from other places. So -- that’s our frustration as I’ve got more ideas than I do capital.

這太瘋狂了。是一樣的。所以我想擁有更多，但我必須從其他地方找到錢。所以——這就是我們的挫折感，因為我的想法比資本多。

Makes sense. Okay, thanks a lot. Appreciate it.

有道理。好的，非常感謝。非常感謝。

Thanks, Dave.

謝謝，戴夫。

And I’m seeing no other questions in the queue.

我沒有看到隊列中有其他問題。

With that, I can’t, on the one hand, tell you how disappointed I am with our performance in the last -- since the Fed started raising rates, and it’s been a maddening market one that we think creates a tremendous amount of opportunity going forward.

一方面，我無法告訴你，自從聯準會開始升息以來，我對我們在過去的表現有多麼失望，這是一個令人抓狂的市場，我們認為這為未來創造了巨大的機會。

But I am thrilled to be here today, given what happened to me a month ago. So -- and I’m determined and I told you earlier in this call that my happy place is working on behalf of shareholders and coming in every day with a glass half-filled view and thinking that this market is so ridiculous in terms of the haves and the have-nots.

但考慮到一個月前發生的事情，我很高興今天能來到這裡。所以——我下定了決心，我在這次電話會議的早些時候告訴過你們，我最開心的事情就是代表股東工作，每天都帶著樂觀的心態來思考，認為這個市場在富人和窮人方面是如此荒謬。

And -- we’re not in a recession. The economy is pretty good. The companies that we own are performing pretty well from a fundamental perspective. We’ve had some we’ve had some missteps like Quantum, for example. But by and large, most of our holdings have done quite well in this environment, and we’re not getting rewarded.

而且──我們並沒有陷入經濟衰退。經濟狀況相當好。從基本面來看，我們所持有的公司表現相當良好。我們也曾犯過一些錯誤，例如量子計畫。但總體而言，在這種環境下，我們持有的大部分資產都表現良好，但我們卻沒有獲得回報。

But I do think that we are going to get rewarded. I’ve seen marks like this before, whether it was for value stocks, 1998, 2000 during the head of the dot-com frenzy when companies like Allstate and Philip Morris were trading at Lowe’s will chair.com was trading at 100 times revenue, whatever [dotcom] it was or 2008, the subprime mortgage meltdown where it never felt like we were ever going to get out of that period. And of course, the S&P got to 656 and that was the bottom.

但我確實認為我們會得到回報。我以前見過類似的情況，無論是價值股，還是 1998 年、2000 年互聯網泡沫時期，當時 Allstate 和 Philip Morris 等公司在 Lowe's 的股票市場上交易，其市盈率為收入的 100 倍，無論是什麼互聯網泡沫，還是 2008 年次貸危機，當時我們感覺自己永遠都無法走出那段時期。當然，標準普爾指數跌到了 656 點，這是最低點。

So COVID is another one. We were down, what, 20%, 30% during the beginning parts of that, and it felt like that was never going to end. And then, of course, we went through a great couple of years after that. So I’m happy to be back. It’s happy to hear from all of you. Thank you again for your well wishes. And we are determined to get the turn back to the place that it was three years ago when we had unbelievable performance, and we feel we’re going to have that again here in the next few years.

所以 COVID 是另一個。在事情開始的那段時間裡，我們的收入下降了 20% 到 30%，而且感覺這種情況永遠不會結束。當然，之後我們又度過了幾年美好的時光。所以我很高興回來。很高興收到大家的來信。再次感謝您的美好祝福。我們決心回到三年前我們表現令人難以置信的狀態，我們相信在未來幾年我們會再次取得這樣的成績。

Thank you, everyone, for participating. Feel free to reach out any time if you have any questions. Otherwise, we look forward to speaking with you next quarter. Take care.

謝謝大家的參與。如果您有任何疑問，請隨時與我們聯繫。否則，我們期待下個季度與您交談。小心。