MFA Financial Inc (MFA) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

And ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the MFA third-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question-and-answer session and instructions will be given at that time. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's conference is being recorded.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的支持。歡迎參加 MFA 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。此時，所有參與者都處於只聽模式。稍後我們將進行問答環節，屆時將提供說明。（操作員指示）提醒一下，今天的會議正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the conference over to our first speaker, Mr. Hal Schwartz. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給我們的第一位發言者哈爾·施瓦茨先生。請繼續。

Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. The information discussed on this conference call today may contain or refer to forward-looking statements regarding MFA Financial Inc., which reflect management's beliefs, expectations, and assumptions as to MFA's future performance and operations. When used, statements that are not historical in nature, including those containing words such as, will, believe, expect, anticipate, estimate, should, could, would, or similar expressions are intended to identify forward-looking statements.

謝謝接線員，大家早安。今天電話會議中討論的資訊可能包含或提及有關 MFA Financial Inc. 的前瞻性陳述，這些陳述反映了管理層對 MFA 未來業績和營運的信念、期望和假設。在使用時，非歷史性質的陳述，包括包含諸如將、相信、期望、預期、估計、應該、可以、會或類似表達的詞語的陳述，旨在識別前瞻性陳述。

All forward-looking statements speak only as of the date on, which they are made. These types of statements are subject to various known and unknown risks, uncertainties, assumptions, and other factors, including those described in MFA's annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2023, and other reports that it may file from time-to-time with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

所有前瞻性陳述僅代表其作出之日的觀點。這些類型的聲明受各種已知和未知的風險、不確定性、假設和其他因素的影響，包括 MFA 截至 2023 年 12 月 31 日的 10-K 表年度報告中所述的因素以及其可能不時向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他報告中所述的因素。

These risks, uncertainties, and other factors could cause MFA's actual results to differ materially from those projected, expressed, or implied in any forward-looking statements it makes. For additional information regarding MFA's use of forward-looking statements, please see the relevant disclosure in the press release announcing MFA's third quarter 2024 financial results.

這些風險、不確定性和其他因素可能導致 MFA 的實際結果與其所做的任何前瞻性陳述中預測、表達或暗示的結果有重大差異。有關 MFA 使用前瞻性陳述的更多信息，請參閱宣布 MFA 2024 年第三季財務業績的新聞稿中的相關披露。

Thank you for your time. I would now like to turn this call over to MFA's CEO, Craig Knutson.

感謝您的時間。現在我想將這個電話轉給 MFA 的執行長 Craig Knutson。

Thank you, Hal. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for MFA Financials’ third quarter 2024 earnings call. With me today are Bryan Wulfsohn, our President and Chief Investment Officer; Mike Roper, our CFO; and other members of our senior management team.

謝謝你，哈爾。大家早安，感謝您參加 MFA Financials 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。今天與我在一起的有我們的總裁兼首席投資長 Bryan Wulfsohn；我們的財務長 Mike Roper；以及我們高階管理團隊的其他成員。

I'll begin with a high-level review of the third quarter market environment, touch on some of our results, activities and opportunities, and then I'll turn the call over to Mike to review our financials in more detail, followed by Bryan who will review the portfolio, financing Lima One and risk management before we open up the call for questions.

我將首先從高層角度回顧第三季的市場環境，談談我們的一些業績、活動和機遇，然後我將把電話轉給 Mike，讓他更詳細地回顧我們的財務狀況，隨後 Bryan 將回顧投資組合、Lima One 的融資情況和風險管理，之後我們開始提問。

The Federal Reserve Board decreased the federal funds rate target by 50 basis points at their meeting on September 18. This rate cut, while more than the 25 basis points expected by many market participants was most noteworthy as a clear signal that the Fed has now embarked on an easing cycle.

聯準會在9月18日的會議上將聯邦基金利率目標下調50個基點。此次降息雖然超過了許多市場參與者預期的25個基點，但最值得注意的是，這是一個明確的訊號，顯示聯準會目前已開始寬鬆週期。

For levered fixed income investors, this is a welcome development after a very challenging 2.5 year period of restrictive monetary policy and the accompanying inverted yield curve. Economic and labor market data has been somewhat mixed over the last few months, which suggests that the easing cycle may proceed more slowly than originally anticipated, but Chair Powell has been clear that a recalibration is merited and a return to a neutral level of Fed funds is in order, although it remains to be seen how long this easing cycle lasts, and how much the Fed ultimately cuts rates, this is a clear and refreshing tailwind for our business.

對於槓桿固定收益投資者來說，在經歷了兩年半的限制性貨幣政策和隨之而來的殖利率曲線倒掛的艱難時期後，這是一個可喜的發展。過去幾個月，經濟和勞動力市場數據好壞參半，這表明寬鬆週期的進展可能比最初預期的要慢，但鮑威爾主席已明確表示，重新調整是值得的，聯邦基金利率應回歸中性水平，儘管這一寬鬆週期持續多久、美聯儲最終將降息還有待觀察，但這對我們的業務來說是一個明顯而令人耳目一新的多風順風。

During the third quarter, we announced some management changes, naming Bryan Wulfsohn, President of MFA, in addition to his role as Chief Investment Officer and naming Lori Samuels as Chief Loan Operations Officer. Both Bryan and Lori joined MFA in 2010 and have played many key roles over the last 15 years. These important promotions are very much deserved and are also a testament to our deep and talented bench of senior executives.

第三季度，我們宣布了一些管理層變動，任命 Bryan Wulfsohn 為 MFA 總裁並兼任首席投資官，並任命 Lori Samuels 為首席貸款營運官。Bryan 和 Lori 均於 2010 年加入 MFA，並在過去 15 年中扮演了許多關鍵角色。這些重要的晉升是當之無愧的，也是對我們高階主管實力雄厚和才華洋溢的證明。

MFA turned in solid results in the third quarter of 2024 with distributable earnings of $0.37, book value that was up about 1% and an economic return of 3.3%. We acquired over $550 million of loans with an average coupon of 9.4% and added just shy of 300 million agencies at quite attractive yields.

MFA 在 2024 年第三季取得了穩健的業績，可分配收益為 0.37 美元，帳面價值上漲約 1%，經濟回報率為 3.3%。我們獲得了超過 5.5 億美元的貸款，平均票面利率為 9.4%，並且以相當誘人的收益率增加了近 3 億家機構。

We continue to utilize securitization to fund our assets, closing two deals in the third quarter and two additional deals subsequent to the end of Q3. Our most recent deal, price just last week was our first rated deal for residential transition loans originated by Lima One. This rated construct materially improves our funding costs through these high-yielding assets.

我們繼續利用證券化為我們的資產提供資金，在第三季完成了兩筆交易，並在第三季結束後完成了兩筆交易。我們最近的交易，即上週的價格，是我們針對 Lima One 發起的住宅過渡貸款的第一筆評級交易。這種評級結構透過這些高收益資產大大改善了我們的融資成本。

At Lima One, now led by new CEO, Josh Woodward, some recent management changes, together with a refocus away from multifamily originations and some sales channel consolidation have had a not unexpected impact on origination volume as we funded $329 million of business purpose loans in the third quarter.

在 Lima One，目前由新的首席執行官喬什·伍德沃德（Josh Woodward）領導，最近的一些管理變動，加上從多戶型貸款發放到業務的重新關注以及一些銷售渠道的整合，對貸款發放量產生了意料之中的影響，因為我們在第三季度發放了 3.29 億美元的商業用途貸款。

Non-QM acquisitions in Q3 were relatively flat to Q2, but we added more agencies in Q3, and it turns out that our total asset acquisitions for the third quarter were almost identical to the second quarter. The management team at Lima One is working hard to fill some personnel vacancies, including sales positions.

第三季的非 QM 收購與第二季相對持平，但我們在第三季增加了更多代理機構，事實證明我們第三季的總資產收購幾乎與第二季相同。Lima One 的管理團隊正在努力填補一些人員空缺，包括銷售職位。

And MFA's asset management team is actively engaged with Lima's Servicing Group to work through some of the delinquent loans, evaluate underwriting guidelines and institute process improvements to strengthen the platform for the future.

此外，MFA 的資產管理團隊正積極與利馬的服務集團合作，處理部分拖欠貸款，評估承保準則，並制定流程改善措施，以加強未來的平台。

As we have said repeatedly, Lima One is an important differentiator for MFA, as it provides us with the ability to organically create our own high-yielding assets in the business purpose space. Lima One underwrites our loans and borrowers, services the loans and manages construction draws on transitional loans. This is another important differentiator because we are not reliant on third parties to resolve loans that go delinquent.

正如我們一再說過的，Lima One 是 MFA 的一個重要的差異化因素，因為它使我們能夠在商業用途領域有機地創造自己的高收益資產。Lima One 為我們的貸款和借款人提供承保、提供貸款服務並管理過渡貸款的建設提款。這是另一個重要的區別因素，因為我們不依賴第三方來解決拖欠貸款。

And finally, we have a unique and instant feedback loop with loan originations at Lima One, because we are intimately involved with the securitization markets and more recently, a few loan sales to third parties, we were able to adjust loan pricing in real time to reflect market developments.

最後，我們在 Lima One 擁有獨特的即時回饋迴路，用於貸款發放，因為我們與證券化市場密切相關，而且最近我們還向第三方銷售了一些貸款，我們能夠即時調整貸款定價以反映市場的發展。

In this welcome new period of lower rates and a steepening yield curve, we are optimistic about our business model and excited about the opportunities that will generate for Lima One and MFA.

在這個利率較低、殖利率曲線趨陡的新時期，我們對我們的商業模式感到樂觀，並對將為 Lima One 和 MFA 創造的機會感到興奮。

And I'll now turn the call over to Mike Roper to discuss our financial results.

現在我將把電話轉給麥克羅珀來討論我們的財務表現。

Thanks, Craig. At September 30, GAAP book value was $13.77 per common share and economic book value was $14.46 per common share, an increase of approximately 1% from $14.34 at the end of June. We declared dividends of $0.35 per common share and delivered a quarterly total economic return of approximately 3.3%.

謝謝，克雷格。截至 9 月 30 日，GAAP 帳面價值為每股普通股 13.77 美元，經濟帳面價值為每股普通股 14.46 美元，較 6 月底的 14.34 美元增加約 1%。我們宣布每股普通股派發 0.35 美元的股息，並實現季度總經濟回報約 3.3%。

For the third quarter, MFA generated GAAP earnings of $48.2 million or $0.38 per basic common share, up from $41.9 million or $0.32 per basic common share in the second quarter.

第三季度，MFA 的 GAAP 收益為 4,820 萬美元，即每股基本普通股 0.38 美元，高於第二季度的 4,190 萬美元或每股基本普通股 0.32 美元。

Our GAAP earnings included net unrealized gains on our residential whole loan portfolio of approximately $140 million. These gains were concentrated primarily in our non-QM and SFR loan portfolios and were partially offset by a slight increase in credit-related unrealized losses on our multifamily transitional loans.

我們的 GAAP 收益包括住宅整體貸款組合約 1.4 億美元的淨未實現收益。這些收益主要集中在我們的非 QM 和 SFR 貸款組合中，並被我們的多戶過渡貸款中與信貸相關的未實現損失的輕微增加所部分抵消。

During the quarter, we sold single-family rental loans with an unpaid principal balance of approximately $236 million. As Bryan will detail further in his later remarks, these sales included $74 million UPB of recently originated SFR loans that were sold to third parties by Lima One. These sales represent the first of what we expect to be a new and growing distribution channel for Lima's origination in the quarters and years ahead.

本季度，我們出售了單戶住宅租賃貸款，未償還本金餘額約為 2.36 億美元。布萊恩將在稍後的評論中進一步詳細說明，這些銷售包括 Lima One 出售給第三方的 7400 萬美元 UPB 新發放的 SFR 貸款。我們預計，這些銷售將成為未來幾季和幾年內利馬起源的新的和不斷增長的分銷管道的首批產品。

We believe that third-party sales provide strategic diversification away from securitization markets, enhanced Lima's relationships with other capital market participants and improve our returns. We report gains derived from loans sold to third parties within three months of their origination as a component of Lima One's mortgage banking income, which is included in our distributable earnings.

我們相信，第三方銷售可以實現遠離證券化市場的策略多樣化，增強利馬與其他資本市場參與者的關係，並提高我們的回報。我們將在貸款發放後三個月內出售給第三方的貸款收益報告為 Lima One 抵押銀行收入的一部分，該收入包含在我們的可分配收益中。

Sales of recently originated loans attributed $3.5 million to Lima One's mortgage banking income this quarter, driving the increase from the second quarter despite lower origination volumes.

本季度，新發放貸款的銷售額為 Lima One 的抵押貸款銀行業務收入貢獻了 350 萬美元，儘管發放量較低，但仍推動了貸款收入較第二季度的成長。

During the quarter, MFA again generated DE in excess of our common dividend. DE for the quarter was $38.6 million or $0.37 per basic common share, a decrease from $0.45 in the second quarter. The decrease in our DE was driven primarily by $0.07 of realized credit losses during the quarter, primarily on our transitional loans at fair value, an increase from $0.01 of realized credit losses on fair value loans in the second quarter.

在本季度，MFA 產生的 DE 再次超過了我們的普通股股息。本季的 DE 為 3,860 萬美元，即每股基本普通股 0.37 美元，低於第二季的 0.45 美元。我們的 DE 的減少主要由於本季度 0.07 美元的已實現信用損失，主要是以公允價值計算的過渡貸款，高於第二季度公允價值貸款 0.01 美元的已實現信用損失。

As we explained in our last call, expected credit losses on our fair value loans are recorded in our GAAP results and in both our GAAP and economic book values as mark-to-market adjustments over the life of the underlying loans, but only impact TE when the losses are realized, generally at the completion of foreclosure proceedings.

正如我們在上次電話會議中所解釋的那樣，我們公允價值貸款的預期信用損失記錄在我們的 GAAP 結果以及我們的 GAAP 和經濟賬面價值中，作為基礎貸款期限內的市價調整，但僅在損失實現時（通常是在止贖程序完成時）對 TE 產生影響。

Our third quarter G&A expenses and our DE were also impacted by non-recurring separation, severance, and retirement related charges of approximately $3.3 million. We expect that the personnel changes that gave rise to these charges will result in a modest reduction in our quarterly G&A and a benefit to our DE beginning in the first quarter of 2025.

我們第三季的一般及行政開支和 DE 也受到約 330 萬美元的非經常性分離、遣散費和退休相關費用的影響。我們預計，導致這些費用的人事變動將導致我們的季度 G&A 略有減少，並從 2025 年第一季開始對我們的 DE 產生好處。

Finally, subsequent to quarter end, we estimate that our economic book value has decreased by approximately 3% to 4% as a result of higher market interest rates.

最後，季末之後，我們估計由於市場利率上升，我們的經濟帳面價值下降了約 3% 至 4%。

I'd now like to turn the call over to Bryan, who will discuss our portfolio highlights and the performance of Lima One.

現在，我想將電話轉給布萊恩，他將討論我們的投資組合亮點和 Lima One 的表現。

Thanks Mike. We grew our investment portfolio during the quarter by adding $565 million of new loans, $294 million of agency securities. Lima One originations and draws accounted for $329 million of the additions. Non-QM purchases sourced from both bulk and flow channels totaled $236 million with an average coupon of 8.2% and an LTV of 64%.

謝謝邁克。本季度，我們增加了 5.65 億美元的新貸款和 2.94 億美元的代理證券，擴大了投資組合。Lima One 的發起和提取額佔新增金額的 3.29 億美元。來自大宗和流通管道的非 QM 採購總額為 2.36 億美元，平均票面利率為 8.2%，LTV 為 64%。

We grew our Agency MBS portfolio to approximately $1 billion during the quarter as we believe spreads and carry continue to be attractive. Our purchases have been focused on low payout pools, which provides some prepay protection without sacrificing yields.

由於我們相信利差和套利仍然具有吸引力，我們在本季將機構 MBS 投資組合擴大至約 10 億美元。我們的購買主要集中在低支出池上，這在不犧牲收益的情況下提供了一些預付保護。

We believe these investments currently offer ROEs in the mid-teens and are complementary to our credit portfolio. Runoff across our entire portfolio in the quarter was $629 million, down slightly from the second quarter, majority came from our transitional loan portfolio as those loans are designed to pay off quickly with maturities usually ranging from nine months to two years.

我們相信這些投資目前的 ROE 處於十五六水平，並且對我們的信貸組合起到了補充作用。本季我們整個投資組合的流失為 6.29 億美元，較第二季略有下降，大部分來自我們的過渡貸款組合，因為這些貸款旨在快速償還，期限通常在 9 個月至 2 年之間。

In addition to the runoff, we sold $241 million of loans from our single-family rental loan portfolio in the quarter. All of those loans we sold were made by Lima one and $77 million of them were newly originated. We expect to sell more loans moving forward as the bid for rental loans remain strong, particularly from insurance accounts looking to add duration to their investment portfolios.

除了淨減額之外，我們在本季還出售了價值 2.41 億美元的單戶住宅租賃貸款組合貸款。我們出售的所有貸款均由 Lima One 發放，其中 7,700 萬美元是新發放的。由於租賃貸款的競標仍然強勁，我們預計未來將出售更多貸款，尤其是來自希望增加投資組合期限的保險帳戶。

As Craig touched on, we have been successful in the securitization markets across our loan strategies. The market has been supportive of residential securitized credit, absorbing almost double the issuance year-to-date as compared to last year.

正如克雷格所提到的，我們的貸款策略在證券化市場上取得了成功。市場一直支持住宅證券化信貸，今年迄今吸收的發行量幾乎是去年的兩倍。

We issued a rated RPL transaction in July, selling $259 million of bonds at a cost of debt of approximately 5.8%. In September, we issued our 15 non-QM securitization, selling $321 million bonds with a coupon just under 5.4%.

我們在 7 月發行了一項評級 RPL 交易，以約 5.8% 的債務成本出售了 2.59 億美元的債券。9 月份，我們發行了 15 只非 QM 證券化產品，售出債券總額 3.21 億美元，票面利率略低於 5.4%。

Post quarter end, we issued a non-rated deal compromise of NPLs from our legacy RPL/NPL portfolio. And last week, we were excited to close our first rated RTL securitization, issuing over $200 million of bonds at a coupon just under 6%.

季度結束後，我們從原有的 RPL/NPL 組合中發布了一項非評級的不良貸款和解協議。上週，我們很高興完成了首個評級 RTL 證券化項目，以略低於 6% 的票面利率發行了總額超過 2 億美元的債券。

The rated nature of the transaction allowed us to lower our cost of funds significantly from the last non-rated RTL deal. The senior tranche in our rated deal traded 75 basis points tighter than our senior tranche of our last non-rated transaction.

此交易的評級性質使我們的資金成本較上一次未評級的 RTL 交易大幅降低。我們評級交易中的高級部分的交易價格比我們上一次未評級交易中的高級部分低 75 個基點。

We have now securitized over $10 billion in loans since 2020 and the percentage of our loan portfolio financed by securitizations was 70% at the end of the quarter. Many of these securitizations are callable or will become callable in the coming quarters and years. These call options give us the ability to refinance at lower rates as borrowing costs come down as well as the opportunity to relever our collateral and redeploy capital as bonds pay down.

自 2020 年以來，我們已將超過 100 億美元的貸款證券化，截至本季末，我們由證券化融資的貸款組合比例為 70%。許多此類證券化都是可贖回的，或將在未來幾季和幾年內變為可贖回的。這些看漲選擇權使我們有能力在藉貸成本下降時以較低的利率進行再融資，並有機會在債券償還時重新調整我們的抵押品並重新部署資本。

Our estimated duration rose modestly in the third quarter to 1.16% from 1.12% a quarter ago. As a reminder, we hedge our interest rate exposure by issuing fixed rate securitizations, of which we have $5.5 billion of bonds sold outstanding and with interest rate swaps, of which we had $3.5 billion notional at the quarter end, $1 billion of these swaps will be rolling off for the next two quarters. And as we continue to add agencies to our portfolio, we expect to see additional swap activity and incremental usage of longer-dated swaps to balance out the portfolio.

我們預計第三季的持續時間從上一季的 1.12% 小幅上升至 1.16%。提醒一下，我們透過發行固定利率證券化來對沖我們的利率風險，其中我們有 55 億美元的未償還債券和利率互換，其中在本季末我們的名目金額為 35 億美元，其中 10 億美元的互換將在接下來的兩個季度中展期。隨著我們繼續將機構添加到我們的投資組合中，我們預計會看到更多的掉期活動和更長期掉期的增量使用，以平衡投資組合。

Moving to Lima One. We originated $312 million of loans in the third quarter, which was down from just over $400 million in the prior quarter. 75% of Q3 origination was in short-term transitional loans and 25% in longer-term rental loans. As previously mentioned, we have begun to programmatically sell rental loans as a way to generate additional income and enhance Lima One's franchise value.

搬到利馬一號。我們在第三季發放了 3.12 億美元的貸款，比上一季的 4 億美元有所下降。第三季的貸款發放量中，75%為短期過渡貸款，25%為長期租賃貸款。如同前面所提到的，我們已經開始以程式化的方式出售租賃貸款，以此來創造額外收入並提高 Lima One 的特許經營價值。

We attribute the decline in origination volume to restructuring of Lima sales organization since our shift away from multifamily lending. We have been adding talent to our production team and improving borrower outreach with marketing and technology initiatives that should start to pay dividends with higher volume beginning in 2025.

我們認為，自從我們放棄多戶型貸款業務以來，利馬銷售組織的重組導致了貸款發放量的下降。我們一直在為我們的生產團隊增添人才，並透過行銷和技術舉措改善借款人拓展，這些舉措應該會在 2025 年開始隨著借款量的增加而開始帶來回報。

Moving to our credit performance. 60-plus day delinquencies for our entire portfolio increased to 6.7% from 6.5% a quarter ago. The rise was primarily from our Non-QM and multifamily loan portfolios. As it relates to Non-QM, given our low portfolio LTV, when a borrower falls behind on payments, they usually just sell the home and pay us off in full to protect their equity. In cases where we unfortunately have to get to foreclosure option, we are often outbid resulting in full payoff.

轉向我們的信用表現。我們整個投資組合的 60 天以上拖欠率從上一季的 6.5% 上升至 6.7%。成長主要來自於我們的非 QM 和多戶型貸款組合。就非 QM 而言，鑑於我們的投資組合 LTV 較低，當借款人拖欠還款時，他們通常會出售房屋並全額付清款項以保護他們的權益。在我們不幸不得不選擇取消抵押品贖回權的情況下，我們通常會被出價高於對方，從而獲得全額回報。

Multifamily delinquencies increased by $7 million over the quarter to $61 million. And post quarter end, that figure rose by an additional $33 million. As a reminder, our asset management team has worked through billions of dollars of defaulted loans over the past decade to the benefit of our borrowers and shareholders. We have and will continue to leverage that team to improve outcomes across our entire loan portfolio, including working through delinquent transitional loans with our servicing group down at Lima One. We believe the combined expertise and experience of these teams put MFA in a strong position to deliver for our investors.

本季度，多戶型房屋拖欠金額增加了 700 萬美元，達到 6,100 萬美元。季度結束後，這一數字又增加了 3,300 萬美元。提醒一下，過去十年來，我們的資產管理團隊已經處理了數十億美元的違約貸款，以造福我們的借款人和股東。我們已經並將繼續利用該團隊來改善我們整個貸款組合的結果，包括與我們在 Lima One 的服務團隊一起處理拖欠的過渡貸款。我們相信，這些團隊的全面專業知識和經驗將使 MFA 能夠為我們的投資者提供有利的服務。

And with that, we'll turn the call over to operator for questions.

說完這些，我們將把電話轉給接線生來回答問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Doug Harter.

道格·哈特。

Thanks. Just first, hoping you could clarify the book value comments you made. Just given how much things are moving around kind of when that 3% to 4% was as of and kind of how you think about dividend accrual in that context?

謝謝。首先，希望您能澄清您所做的帳面價值評論。只是考慮到當 3% 到 4% 時情況發生了多大的變化，以及您如何看待這種背景下的股息累積？

Yeah. Thanks for the question. So that 3% to 4% is probably as of earlier this morning, and it's a bit of a moving target with some spread volatility and rate volatility. But that would be net of the dividend accrual.

是的。謝謝你的提問。因此，截至今天早上，3% 到 4% 的水平可能還處於不確定的範圍內，並且存在一定的利差波動和利率波動。但這將是扣除股息應計額後的淨額。

Great. Appreciate that. And then just how are you thinking about kind of the earnings power of the portfolio kind of and the sensitivity to lower short-term rates as you factor in kind of the swaps you have and swap expirations.

偉大的。非常感謝。那麼，當您考慮到您擁有的掉期和掉期到期日時，您如何考慮投資組合的獲利能力以及對較低短期利率的敏感度。

Yeah. Again, thanks for the question. This is something we spend a good amount of time looking at. I think when we think about the earnings power of the portfolio, we try to look at what those assets and liabilities and hedges would be if we were to effectively restrike those yields today. And effectively, over the long-term, whether that's reported as interest income, interest expense or mark-to-market that is what the earnings power of the portfolio is going forward.

是的。再次感謝您的提問。我們花了大量時間研究這一點。我認為，當我們考慮投資組合的獲利能力時，我們會嘗試去了解，如果我們今天有效地重新獲得這些收益率，這些資產、負債和對沖將會是什麼。實際上，從長期來看，無論是報告為利息收入、利息支出或以市價計算，都與投資組合未來的獲利能力有關。

So given where things are marked at 9/30 and obviously, returns have increased since quarter end with the sell-off in rates, I think, we feel really good about where the dividend is set and what that earnings power is of the portfolio in the context of the dividend.

因此，考慮到 9 月 30 日的情況，以及顯然自季度末以來隨著利率拋售而回報率增加，我認為，我們對股息的設定以及在股息背景下投資組合的盈利能力感到非常滿意。

As for your question about the swaps, yeah, we have some swaps rolling off beginning in the fourth quarter, really at the end of the fourth quarter, and again in Q1. But again, we've benefited from for a long time from those swaps really below market pay rates. But as we sort of restrike those yields, again, we feel really good about the earnings power of the portfolio going forward.

至於您關於掉期的問題，是的，我們從第四季度開始有一些掉期交易，實際上是在第四季度末，然後在第一季再次有一些掉期交易。但同樣，我們長期以來一直受益於這些低於市場支付率的掉期交易。但當我們重新評估這些收益率時，我們對該投資組合未來的獲利能力感到非常滿意。

(Operator Instructions) [Eric Hagen].

（操作員指令）[Eric Hagen]。

Good morning. Can you talk about how much loan warehouse capacity Lima One has to retain loans on the balance sheet in a scenario where the securitization pipeline maybe doesn't turn over as quickly and spreads were to widen?

早安.您能否談談，在證券化管道可能無法快速週轉且利差擴大的情況下，Lima One 需要多少貸款倉庫容量才能在資產負債表上保留貸款？

So we have ample capacity and several RTL revolving securitizations outstanding. So there's really combined between MFA and Lima One, we have over $1 billion of potential borrowing on those assets away from securitization. So really, there's plenty of room.

因此，我們擁有充足的容量和幾筆未償還的 RTL 循環證券化。因此，MFA 和 Lima One 結合起來，我們在這些資產上（非證券化）擁有超過 10 億美元的潛在藉款。所以其實還有足夠的空間。

Okay. Got you. What would you say are some of the considerations or constraints, if you will, to taking the agency portfolio back up again and increasing leverage there?

好的。明白了。如果您願意的話，您認為重新擴大代理商投資組合併提高其槓桿率需要考慮哪些因素或限制因素？

I mean, really, we just look at what spreads are available in the market and versus our other assets. So we do think it's a complementary asset to our credit portfolio. We grew it to $1 billion. I think this -- if you were to look out, if spreads remain where they are and the shape of the curve continues to sort of steepened out, we could see that growing to maybe $1.5 billion to $2 billion in the coming quarters.

我的意思是，實際上，我們只是看看市場上與我們的其他資產相比的利差是多少。因此我們確實認為它是我們信貸組合的補充資產。我們將其增長至10億美元。我認為，如果你留意的話，如果利差保持現狀，且曲線形狀繼續趨於陡峭，我們可以看到未來幾季利差可能會增長到 15 億美元至 20 億美元。

[Brian Zelino].

[布萊恩·澤利諾]。

Great. Thanks for taking my question. Just was hoping to get some more detail on the programmatic loan sale outlook. I guess how big could that distribution channel get over time? And is it only SFR, because we see some transitional loan sales as well?

偉大的。感謝您回答我的問題。只是希望獲得一些關於程序化貸款銷售前景的更多細節。我猜測隨著時間的推移該分銷管道能夠變得多大？而且是否只有 SFR 如此，因為我們也看到一些過渡性貸款銷售？

So Brian, I'll take that. It's Craig. So I think it could be a significant part of -- particularly on the rental side. As Bryan said, that the demand is pretty significant there. It's still an asset that we like and that we also have in our portfolio. But I think these third-party sales, they validate pricing, they validate marks. They open an additional distribution channel.

那麼布萊恩，我接受。是克雷格。所以我認為這可能是一個重要組成部分——特別是在租賃方面。正如布萊恩所說，那裡的需求相當大。它仍然是我們喜歡的資產，也在我們的投資組合中。但我認為這些第三方銷售，他們驗證定價，他們驗證標記。他們開闢了額外的分銷管道。

Right now, I think our rental loans were about 25% of the origination in the quarter in a lower rate environment, that could grow over time. So I think it's another arrow in the quiver. It's not what we'll do with all rental loans but it's a good outlet to have. If you fast forward and imagine Lima One's origination volume growing significantly over the next couple of years, it may be more necessary outlet at some point. But for now, I think we're really just developing another distribution channel.

目前，我認為在較低利率環境下，我們的租賃貸款約佔本季貸款發放量的 25%，而這一比例可能會隨著時間的推移而增長。因此，我認為這是箭筒中的另一支箭。這並不是我們對所有租賃貸款的處理方式，但它是一個很好的出路。如果您快轉並想像 Lima One 的起源量在未來幾年內大幅增長，那麼在某些時候它可能會成為更必要的管道。但就目前而言，我認為我們實際上只是在開發另一個分銷管道。

Bose George.

博斯喬治。

Good morning. Actually, can you talk about how much was the credit mark on the multifamily piece of the BPO? And then just can you remind us just how much exposure you have left there?

早安.實際上，您能談談 BPO 中多戶型部分的信用標記是多少嗎？那麼，您能否提醒我們您在那裡還剩下多少曝光率？

Yeah. So during the quarter, it was about $15 million. And we now carry that portfolio, I think it's a 4-point discount to the total UPB. The total UPB at 9/30 was went around $1 billion, give you the exact number -- $1.1 billion as of 9/30.

是的。因此本季的營收約為 1500 萬美元。現在我們有了這個投資組合，我認為它比總 UPB 有 4 個百分點的折扣。截至 9 月 30 日，UPB 總金額約為 10 億美元，確切數字為：截至 9 月 30 日為 11 億美元。

Okay. Great. Thank you. And can you just talk about the competitive side of the BPL business? Obviously, the demand side seems very strong, but are you seeing incumbents trying to grow? Or just can you characterize how that's developing?

好的。偉大的。謝謝。您能談談 BPL 業務的競爭方面嗎？顯然，需求方似乎非常強勁，但您是否看到現有企業正在努力成長？或者您能描述一下它是如何發展的嗎？

Yeah. It's definitely competitive. But as we mentioned, volume was down slightly. We're sort of out in the market trying to attract talent and really the way that we believe you grow, there's sort of three ways, right? It's having a good sales force and then there's marketing and sort of technology improvement. We think we're sort of getting to improving on all three of those fronts. And we're aware that, that is competitive, but we think there's enough room for us to get back that volume that we sort of had lost over the past quarter.

是的。這絕對具有競爭力。但正如我們所提到的，交易量略有下降。我們正在市場上努力吸引人才，而我們認為企業成長的方式大致有三種，對嗎？它擁有一支優秀的銷售隊伍，然後還有行銷和技術改進。我們認為我們正在這三個方面取得進步。我們知道，競爭很激烈，但我們認為我們有足夠的空間來恢復上個季度的損失。

(Operator Instructions) And it does appear at this time there are no further questions from the phone lines. Please continue.

（操作員指示）目前看來電話線中沒有其他問題。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Thanks, everyone, for your interest in MFA Financial. We look forward to speaking with you again in February, when we announce fourth quarter results.

謝謝您，接線生。感謝大家對 MFA Financial 的關注。我們期待在二月份公佈第四季業績時再次與您交談。

And ladies and gentlemen, today's conference will be available for replay. Today, after 01:00 PM Eastern. You may access the AT&T replay system at any time by dialing 1-866-207-1041, entering the access code 4338621, international participants may dial 402-970-0847. And those numbers again are 1-866-207-1041 and 402-970-0847, again, entering the access code 433-8621, and that replay will be available through February 6, 2025.

女士們、先生們，今天的會議將提供重播。今天，東部時間下午 1:00 之後。您可隨時撥打1-866-207-1041，輸入接取碼4338621，存取AT&T重播系統，國際參與者可撥打402-970-0847。這些號碼又是 1-866-207-1041 和 402-970-0847，再次輸入訪問代碼 433-8621，重播將持續到 2025 年 2 月 6 日。

That does conclude your conference for today. Thank you for your participation and for using AT&T conferencing service. You may now disconnect.

今天的會議就到此結束了。感謝您的參與及使用AT&T會議服務。您現在可以斷開連線。