Methanex Corp (MEOH) 2008 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Methanex Corporation fourth quarter 2008 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. As a reminder, this call is being recorded on Thursday, January 29, 2009.

I'd like to now turn the conference call over to Mr. Jason Chesko, Director, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I would like to remind our listeners that our comments and answers to your questions may contain forward-looking information. This information by its nature is subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause stated outcomes to differ materially from the actual outcomes.

Certain material factors or assumptions were applied in drawing the conclusions or making the forecasts or projections, which are included in the forward-looking information. Please refer to the bottom of our latest news release and to our 2007 annual report for more information.

I'd now like to turn the call over to Methanex's President and CEO, Mr. Bruce Aitken, for his comments.

Well, thank you, Jason, and good morning, everyone. And welcome to Methanex's fourth quarter investor conference call. I've got a number of colleagues with me in the room and they will be available to help answer questions a little later on.

Firstly, some comments on our results for the fourth quarter. As in many industries, our operating environment changed quite dramatically during the quarter. I'll comment more later in the call, but I wanted to emphasize that our results for the quarter were substantially impacted by the dramatic changes in the operating environment.

EBITDA for the quarter was negative US$12 million and we reported a net loss of US$3 million or US$0.03 per share. There were a number of factors that influenced this result.

First, as a result of the decline in methanol demand during the quarter, sales volumes were lower than in previous quarters. Customers cancelled about 200,000 tonnes of orders in the last two months of the year, which had a big impact, both on our earnings and inventories.

Second, the discount to posted prices was higher than expected, as fixed-price and cost of service volumes made up a larger percentage of our sales than usual.

Third, and as is typical in a declining methanol price environment, our margins on purchased and produced methanol are negatively impacted as a result of our FIFO accounting policy.

And finally, an occurrence that is not common, as a result of the sharp decline in methanol pricing, we took a pretax US$33 million write-down on our inventories to reflect the difference in the average cost of our inventory at the end of the fourth quarter to what we expect to realize on those sales, as those inventories are sold in the first quarter.

There was also one adjustment that had a positive impact on our net income. We resolved a tax position relating to distribution of profits from subsidiaries, which reduced our tax rate for 2008 to 13%. However, this is a non-recurring item, and over the next 12 months, we expect our effective tax rate to be in the 30% range, as it typically has been in recent quarters.

The result for Q4 2008 is not a good reflection of the strength and earning capability of the Company. It is primarily the volatility in methanol prices and the timing of inventory flows that suppressed earnings. If this volatility was removed, we would have expected to earn more then US$100 million of EBITDA at the average prices that prevailed during the quarter. I hope that this helps to explain the effect of volatility on our results.

I'll comment on the recent significant changes to the industry and pricing environment later in the call, but first, I would like to provide you with an update on our operations.

Production from our large, low-cost plants in Trinidad during the quarter continue to be excellent. We've reduced the total of 494,000 tonnes, which is slightly above design capacity for those plants. At the beginning of January, we shut down our Atlas plant to complete some repairs and maintenance, and the plant was restarted yesterday. This should result in about 75,000 tonnes less production from Trinidad during the first quarter.

Our site in Chile operated at 28% capacity during the fourth quarter, with gas supply from Chile, and we produced 272,000 tonnes of methanol. This was slightly better than last quarter as we benefited from increased gas deliveries from GeoPark. I'll comment more on the outlook for natural gas for our plants in Chile in just a few moments.

At the beginning of October, we added about 400,000 tonnes of incremental production in New Zealand, as we started up the larger 900,000 tonne Motunui plant and shut down the smaller 500,000 tonne plant in nearby Waitara Valley. The Motunui plant ran near capacity for most of the quarter and we produced 200,000 tonnes of methanol.

We had some production flexibility at our New Zealand site, and recently, in order to manage inventories, we had been operating the plant at moderately lower operating rates in the 70% range for the last month or so. We anticipate that we will return to full operating rates at this plant next week.

On the last call, I reported that we are assessing the possibility of restarting the Waitara Valley plant again this year. Given current market conditions, we are delaying this potential restart. However, in the medium to long-term, under more normal industry conditions, we continue to believe we can operate both plants, given the improved outlook for natural gas supply in New Zealand.

I'll switch topics now and address the industry in pricing outlook, which has changed significantly over the last quarter. Near the beginning of the quarter, demand was relatively stable, with customers reporting fairly normal operations. However, as the quarter evolved, the impacts of the global financial crisis and weak economic environment were felt; and many methanol derivative plants either shut [in] or operated at lower rates. The drop-off in demand occurred extremely quickly and it was widespread, with demand down significantly across all major global regions, including China.

We estimate that overall global methanol demand in Q4 was about 15% below Q3 levels. Traditional methanol derivatives such as formaldehyde and acetic acid were most impacted, while demand for most energy-related derivatives remained steady, despite the lower energy pricing environment, as lower methanol prices continued to make the economics of those derivatives competitive.

The sharp drop-off in demand resulted in higher global inventories and a significant decline in methanol prices during the fourth quarter and into January. In January, our average non-discounted price across all major regions is about US$220 per tonne.

With the recent sharp drop-off in demand, industry supply has rationalized quickly, particularly in China, where we estimate about 6 million tonnes of high cost production was taken out of the market during the fourth quarter. High-cost plants are also shut down or operating at lower rates in other areas, such as Russia and Eastern Europe. This decline in supply has provided some stability in pricing.

Earlier this week, we rolled January pricing into February. However, global inventories remain high at the producer level and we've not yet seen any significant changes in demand.

One significant change in the market is the level of imports into China. Over the last few years, China has imported in the range of 1 million to 1.5 million tonnes per year. During December and January, China's imports have increased to an annualized rate of about 4 million tonnes, as low cost supply, mainly from the Middle East and Southeast Asia, has partially offset the decline in production in China.

I'll switch topics now and talk more about some of the opportunities and challenges that we face. Firstly, natural gas supplies our plants in Chile. We continue to operate our site in Chile at about 30% of capacity, based on gas supplied exclusively from Chile. For much of the fourth quarter, there was a surplus of gas available in southern Chile, but the surplus was never sufficient to provide us with comfort that we could reliably operate a second plant at a stable rate. The various initiatives underway in southern Chile to increase gas supply are progressing well.

Firstly, our long-term gas supply with GeoPark is continuing to provide increasing quantities of gas from the Fell block. As I mentioned earlier, GeoPark increased its deliveries of gas, and during the fourth quarter, they supplied about 25% of the gas that we consumed.

Our major initiative with ENAP and the Dorado Riquelme block is also progressing to plan. Seven wells were drilled in this block during 2008 with a very high success rate. We are already receiving small quantities of gas from this new block and are planning an increased drilling program this year. Together, the ultimate goal of GeoPark and ENAP is that these two blocks alone have the potential to supply us with about 40% of our total gas requirements.

Finally, exploration and development activities are in the early stages in the nine exploration blocks the Government of Chile awarded the several international oil and gas companies earlier this year under an international bidding round. Under the terms of these agreements, from the bidding round, capital has already been committed to these blocks. So we expect exploration and development activity to progress as planned.

When we add up all of the initiatives in Southern Chile, we estimate that about US$600 million will be spent by a variety of oil and gas companies on gas exploration and development between 2009 and 2011. Based on the significant activity and the success already achieved in current initiatives, we continue to be optimistic on the prospects of sourcing more gas in Chile and returning our site back to a four-plant operation. However, as I have commented before, this will be a gradual process and we continue to expect that it will take a couple of years before we see a significant improvement to our operating rate.

The next opportunity I wanted to provide you an update on is our new methanol plant in Egypt. The project is now about 70% complete, and it continues to be on budget and on schedule for start-up in early 2010.

The first of the major equipment has been delivered to the site and installed, and the plant is beginning to take shape. As this plant will be amongst the lowest cost plants in the world, we expect it will generate strong cash flow for our shareholders, but after it starts up, even in a weak pricing environment. In addition, our joint venture DME project in Egypt is also progressing well and is currently advancing towards early engineering work.

I'll change topics now and make a few comments about our liquidity and capital allocation in the current environment. Despite negative accounting earnings during the fourth quarter, we generated US$51 million in cash through operations, and we continue to be in a strong financial position. We had US$328 million of cash on our balance sheet; a US$250 million undrawn credit facility; low leverage; and low financing requirements or refinancing requirements until 2012.

We have two key priorities for the use of our cash, and relative to our liquidity position, the capital required to these initiatives is modest. Firstly, completing the Egypt project, which requires a remaining equity contribution before interest of about US$90 million. And secondly, we will continue to focus on initiatives to accelerate gas development in Southern Chile and expect to spend around US$70 million on initiatives during 2009.

So, we're well-positioned to satisfy these commitments and our planned plant maintenance expenditures. However, in the current environment where operating cash flow has declined sharply and credit markets are effectively closed, we need to manage the Company with some caution. Our objective is to emerge from the current recession a stronger company, with an improved ability to generate cash. We are making some short-term sacrifices to achieve this goal.

We have stopped repurchasing shares under our normal course issuer bids; canceled almost all discretionary capital spending; and embarked upon a global cost-cutting program. With these actions, we believe that we can continue to invest to grow and improve the quality of the Company's assets and manage through the current financial crisis.

Before stopping for questions, I'll make a few comments regarding the future and our expectations for the first quarter. However, in this uncertain environment, it continues to be difficult to predict the outlook for our industry with much certainty in the short-term.

As is evident in this quarter's results, our earnings move up and down quite sharply in times of volatile pricing. This is caused primarily by accounting for inventories on a FIFO basis. It takes about two months for production and purchases to be expensed, so we are matching today's revenues with a cost structure from two months ago. This is the effect that has caused us to write down inventories in Q4 and means that our inventories at the end of the fourth quarter, which will be about two-thirds of Q1 sales, have been written down to a level from which we would more or less expect to earn breakeven gross margin.

As I mentioned earlier, contract methanol prices in January averaged about US$220 per tonne and we have rolled January prices into February. We think that based on current supply and demand balances, prices should remain reasonably stable during the quarter. We expect sales volumes to be similar to Q4, and will likely only return to more normal sales volume levels when methanol demand recovers.

The discount from contract prices should be somewhat lower than has been normal in the last couple of years, as at lower prices, fixed price and cost of served contracts have a lesser impact on our results. Our cost structure is quickly adjusting to the current environment. However, we will still experience the cost lags that are flowing through our inventories.

Based on the comments that I've made this morning, you should not be surprised that we are expecting to report an accounting loss in Q1. However, we also expect to have a positive operating cash flow during this quarter.

Despite the market's current focus on short-term results and current industry conditions, we are well-positioned for the long-term. We're in a strong position to endure the current period of weakness; completing our project in Egypt; we'll continue with the initiatives to improve gas supply in Chile.

We also still believe there's stronger energy prices long-term and that methanol will play a significant role as an alternative energy source. With the initiatives we are working on, we can potentially double our low-cost production base in a relatively short period of time, and offer significant upside potential to our earnings and valuation.

So at this point, I'm happy to stop and I'll take any questions that you might have.

(Operator Instructions). Jacob Bout, CIBC World Markets.

Can you just comment -- considering where the cost curve is, where you see a bottoming of methanol prices?

Well, I have John Floren in the room here with me, so maybe I'll ask John to handle that question, Jacob.

At current oil prices, oil has quite a big impact on methanol as well, and coal. We're probably at the bottom end of the cost curve. We're seeing quite a bit of production come off, as Bruce mentioned, in China and outside of China. And we are seeing some stability, in fact, in China, which was the lowest price spot market, has rebounded to the 185 level. I think it got as low as 140 in the December and November period. We're still seeing some lower activity in Europe and North America, and the spot with the liquidity there is very low.

And recently, we've seen a parcel being booked from US Gulf to China, so there is some odd movements going on, but we kind of see right now that we're pretty close to where we expect pricing to stabilize -- provided demand doesn't deteriorate any further than what it already has.

We actually think that supply has come off more than demand and there is a potential for some price [fight flur]. But until demand recovers, those are certainly not sustainable. But our analysis would show that there's something like 10 million tonnes of supply that is currently turned off in this industry, which is just an extraordinary circumstance.

Maybe you could comment on the size of the spot market right now versus historically.

Yes. Certainly, China and Asia has been, obviously, the largest spot market and continues to be. And like Bruce mentioned, we've seen 350,000 tonnes in December flow from the Middle East and Southeast Asia into China, mostly at spot numbers. Europe and North America -- very little liquidity.

In the last few days, prices have moved up quite quickly in both markets as producers have been looking for some quantities. But you're talking 10,000 to 20,000 tonnes a month in North America and somewhat less than that in Europe. So it's a really small overall piece.

And that's also being factored because customers can't today take their contract minimums. So even if they wanted to go into the spot market, they're not even meeting their contract minimums from suppliers; there's little ability to do so.

Okay. And then just turning to your CapEx spend, can you remind us again, what's outstanding in Egypt?

Well, the number I mentioned a moment ago is US$90 million, and that's pre-interest. So I think if you capitalized interest it's another --

US$10 million or US$15 million.

US$10 million or US$15 million, Jacob.

Okay. And then the last question, just on New Zealand. The natural gas -- what is the length of the contracts that you have there and what are you paying for the gas there?

Well, they're mostly short-term. We have one contract that runs out to -- basically there's some flexibility around it, but you could say the end of 2010. And we have a number of short-term contracts that we supplement this major contract with. And most of the shorter-term ones have lower gas pricing.

Now you'll know that we resist strongly talking about individual gas contracts because this is commercially sensitive. So the guidance that we've provided on global gas pricing in the past is valid also for New Zealand. The one thing that I would say, in terms of added guidance, is that the New Zealand gas contracts don't decline in the same way as the gas contracts in Chile and Trinidad. So, we don't really get the protection of really low gas prices when methanol prices go down.

So I hope from those words you can have some idea where gas prices are for us and our position. But if you take the words we used earlier, we are planning to start up or increase operating rates in New Zealand. So, what you should take from that is that we're capable of generating a marginal revenue out of that site, even at the current prices.

Non-discounted at US$220 a tonne?

That's right.

Okay, thank you.

Peter Butler, Glen Hill Investments.

Could you talk some about -- you haven't mentioned what the current situation is doing to industry plans to build capacity. And I'm wondering what your intelligence shows on cancellations of new projects or delays or whatever, and the related thought that if you folks are losing money, everybody is hurting.

Is there anybody making money on a cash basis here? (multiple speakers) And how much is this -- excuse me, just the last point -- how much of this 10 million tonnes of capacity that's closed now isn't coming back?

Well, we're making money on a cash basis. And I'd say, as I mentioned before, we have US$51 million of operating cash flows during the quarter, despite all the turmoil. And we expect to have positive operating cash flow in Q1 as well, despite all the turmoil. So certainly our cost structure is coming into line with the guidance that we've provided. And it's the great thing about our gas contracts -- they adjust to the methanol pricing environment.

So it takes a little well to get there, but once you're there, then we have a cost structure that matches our revenue. So -- and I would say that most of the producers in the Middle East also have low cost gas supply. And they are also cash positive today and have every incentive to keep operating. But as you work your way around the world, there's a long list of producers who are stressed today and suffering.

In China -- we've put up pictures of our cost curve in our investor presentation over the last few years and demonstrated what a steep cost curve this industry has. And I think all of our analysis has been vindicated by what's happened in the last few weeks, where supply has shut down quite quickly as people become cash negative.

So, will all that production come back? I think it's a question of what happens to energy prices. As John mentioned a little bit earlier, that energy prices have a big impact on our industry. And if you're a long-term believer in higher energy prices, which I am, then I think there is a place for a lot of those Chinese plants, and a lot of that methanol will end up in the gasoline pool or in DME or in the diesel pool in some way or other.

So, we haven't changed our view on the long-term prognosis for this industry, that if energy prices are high, then there's an enormous pool of demand into the energy markets that can absorb a lot of supply. So that's the major point. And maybe I might just ask John for some comments on any new plants or any plans, John?

Yes, just the ones that are in the ground and still on the ground we'd expect to be completed, maybe a bit delayed, but we would expect those to go forward. Certainly, China has changed their view, but I wouldn't call it a moratorium, but they're certainly slowing down a lot of new plants.

As prices recover, we would expect some of the plants that are shut down to start up, but I think a lot of the small ones in China, some of the smaller coal-based, are probably gone for some time, if not forever.

Okay, thanks for the help, guys.

Fai Lee, RBC Capital Markets.

Just on the inventory write-down. I'm just wondering if the inventory write-down affected your inventory equally across all three facilities or is it more weighted towards New Zealand, your higher-cost facility?

I'll ask Ian to answer that question, Fai.

Yes, Fai, the way we've done it is that it's basically a netting of some of the inherent profit with some of the inherent losses. So, as Bruce said in his comments, we would expect to have 0 net margin on sales of that opening inventory.

Right. But the losses, would they have been more from coming -- because you're writing down the lower-cost to market --

Yes, it would have been to New Zealand and to purchase product.

Okay. New Zealand and --

Of course, Chile and Trinidad, very low cost and we wouldn't have had write-downs there.

Okay. That's what I was thinking. And in terms of the risk of additional write-downs in the future, I guess if prices come off, it'd mainly be in the New Zealand and purchase product inventories as well?

Well, I think, as I said, our cost structure is normalizing, but it doesn't do it instantaneously. So, the gas prices are coming down every month now. So we will, as I mentioned in my comments, we will have some of these lag effects occurring in Q1 as well, which is part of the reason we're expecting an accounting loss.

But I think as we get back to a more normalized environment, at these sort of prices, we should be closer to a breakeven level and certainly making positive cash flows.

Okay. And with respect to the average methanol price of US$388 during the fourth quarter, I'm having a little trouble understanding how you arrived at that based on the pricing -- for the posted prices on page six. It kind of implies almost like prices -- you mostly sold most of your volumes in December, which didn't sound like it was the case. Was there something in that calculation that we should be aware of?

No, I'm not sure -- Ian, maybe (multiple speakers) --

Well, it is weighted to the timing of the sales. And there is some of what you just said, that there was some weighting to some of the sales -- timing of sales, particularly in Asia that occurred in December. So that's probably where you're having trouble, Fai?

Yes, because in November and October, prices were still above US$388.

That's right.

Okay. And with respect to your dividend policy going forward, I know that is going to be a Board decision, but what sort of a recommendation would management be providing, given what you're seeing right now in your near-term outlook?

Well, we established our dividend as a sustainable dividend throughout the cycles. And we still believe that. We believe that we can afford to pay our dividend in good times and bad. And we purposely set ourselves at that level.

However, we're in extraordinary times. And again, as I mentioned in my comments, the credit markets are effectively closed to us. So, what that means is companies have to live within their balance sheet capacity. So I think every dollar that's spent, not only in OpEx and CapEx but also in things like dividend -- the Board will have an obligation to have a look at that.

But our core belief is that we've set our dividend at a level that's sustainable. We still believe that. And as we bring a new low-cost capacity, we think will have future ability to increase our dividend. So, philosophically, that's where we're at, Fai, but we certainly need to take into account the current environment.

Okay. And you mentioned in the press release -- I think you just mentioned it in terms of you're looking at your discretion CapEx. Can you maybe provide us with a sense of what you've defined as discretionary CapEx and what you've cut back so far?

Well, we had a project in Chile, for example, which is a -- to consume some coal, which would have made more methanol available for methanol manufacture. It was an interesting project with a very good return. It was about US$40 million, but we decided that was something we could defer.

If we had a choice, we'd rather be spending money on finding new supplies of natural gas rather than commercializing some coal. So it was one that we deferred. We still think it's a good project that has excellent returns, but it's one that I wouldn't want to spend my last US$40 million doing.

We've had a really hard look at our -- some IT projects. And the Company has always spent a lot of money in upgrading systems and we've decided we can live with some of our older systems for a few more years. From memory, I think we've cut US$6 million out of our IT budget.

And around each of our plants, we're having a rigorous look at our maintenance schedules. We are -- we maintain our plants in, I think, first-class condition. And I think we can afford to be a little less rigorous for 12 or 24 months without taking any risks around reliability or safety.

So, those are the sort of things we're looking at. And I think when you add the numbers up, it's tens of millions of dollars of both OpEx and CapEx savings that we'll be able to make in 2009.

Great. Thank you.

(Operator Instructions). Bob Hastings, Canaccord Capital.

Bruce, the US$70 million spent on New Zealand to get the plant up and running -- can you tell us -- remind me how you're depreciating that? Is that over the life of the plant? Or what is the timeframe there?

I'll ask Ian to answer that, Bob.

Okay. Bob, as we talk about New Zealand as a flexible asset and we have the flexibility to operate Waitara Valley, Motunui or both. And so the depreciation policy we're going to take and will reflect that flexibility. But having said that, a rule of thumb to think about is that we would depreciate that over eight years.

So, okay, so --

And that's underpinned by our beliefs that there's surface natural gas available in that market that we are able to source, and we've been very successful in getting the gas that we need to run our plants when we want to run them. So, I think we have some confidence that we can do that.

And at current pricing levels, at market pricing levels, you would be cash positive and would you be earnings positive as well?

Well, again, I'd kind of fall back to my comments a little earlier -- we don't like to discuss individual sites, because there is a bit of commercial sensitivity here. But I think from the comments we've made and the disclosures we've made, you should be able to work out what our cost structure looks like in New Zealand.

Yes. No, I just wondered if there'd be any -- auditors at some point might say -- they'd do a solvency test to that or --

Well, no, every quarter, we do go through an exercise as a part of the audit on all of our assets. And we've certainly done that in this period when -- and that the world is a bit more stressed than it was last quarter. And certainly there are no issues in terms of --

Carrying value of any of our assets.

Yes. The carrying value of our assets, yes.

Okay. What would it take -- if Chile was -- you've got some additional gas through your agreement so far and that's been growing as expected, I guess. What would it take to maybe sort of question the carrying value of those assets? If we didn't -- if everybody slowed down their CapEx to the year 3 or something, and we weren't adding gas in as planned, would there be some issue there?

No. My personal belief is no, Bob. The Chile One plant was almost written off based on the depreciation schedule -- that plant was built in 1998, sorry -- and was on a 20-year depreciation schedule. And then when we renewed gas contracts, I guess in the late 1990's, we extended the depreciation life of that.

So we've written a lot of those plants off. And remember, they were all built at a relatively low capital cost. So I think we've got just a little over US$600 million of carrying value at our entire Chile site. So I think accounting forces us to be very (technical difficulty) [conservative] on the carrying value of those assets. So it would need to be an extraordinary environment that would require us to write any of that capital off.

Yes, another great plant -- the question, I guess was the timing of gas.

Yes.

So, Egypt -- can you remind me of what your capitalized interest policies are? Are you capitalizing at -- pr what rate are you capitalizing interest on?

As a weighted average -- well, first of all, there's two parts that we capitalize interest on. So we have project debt. And we capitalized interest on the project debt at the rate inherent in that debt. And that's about 6% all in, so it's a very low cost financing.

And then we also capitalized interest on our equity contribution. That's based on our weighted average cost of debt -- on our -- or basically our balance sheet debt.

So, that would be about 6%. So if you've got US$616 million or whatever it is, in that project to date and another US$320 million left to spend, my calculation is that in total for that plant, we could still see another US$50 million or US$60 million of capitalized interest to be added once -- fully into the outset.

I'm not following exactly your arithmetic, Bob. I just -- I would say one thing is that the interest that's capitalized off our balance sheet is cash that we would have spent anyway.

Well, I'm just -- I guess what I'm trying to get to is the final cost of the plant on your books once it's completed. So, I see that you've got US$616 million into it now, another US$320 million left. And then the capitalized interest will get added into that. And my numbers suggest that should be getting closer to US$1 billion -- US$980 million to US$1 billion.

Yes, that does feel a bit high, Bob. Can we have a look at that and we'll get back to you? But that feels a bit high to me.

Yes. No, I know you said before the lower number, but I don't think it included the capitalized interest.

Yes, maybe. 700 and something dollars per tonne of capacity is the number that's in my brain, so.

Okay.

But it will be somewhere between US$900 million and US$1 billion, I think, in terms of once you include all the capitalized interest.

Right. Okay, thank you very much.

(Operator Instructions).

So, we're running out of questions, Ian?

It appears that there are no further questions in the queue, sir.

Excellent. That's great. Well, that's wonderful. So, thank you, everyone, for participating in the call. This has been a challenging quarter and we expect 2009 is going to be a challenging year for many industries, including our own.

But I just wanted to stress that our priorities haven't changed. We continue to invest the strength in our business and it will make us a stronger company in the future. And I feel as though our financial prudence has paid off, because it leaves us in a strong position in a weak environment.

And I look forward to be able to report more positive results in the future than we've been able to in this quarter. So, thank you, everyone, for your continuing support and good morning to everybody.

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the Methanex Corporation fourth quarter 2008 earnings conference call. Thank you for joining us and thank you from TELUS.