MBIA Inc (MBI) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the MBIA Inc. Second Quarter 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. I would now like to turn the call over to Greg Diamond, Managing Director of Investor and Media Relations at MBIA. Please go ahead, sir.

歡迎參加 MBIA Inc. 2023 年第二季度財務業績電話會議。我現在想將電話轉給 MBIA 投資者和媒體關係董事總經理 Greg Diamond。請繼續，先生。

Thank you, Ashley, and welcome, everybody. After the market closed yesterday, we issued and posted several items on our website, including our financial results, 10-Q, quarterly operating supplement and statutory financial statements for both MBIA Insurance Corporation and National Public Finance Guarantee Corporation.

謝謝你，阿什利，歡迎大家。昨天收盤後，我們在網站上發布並發布了幾項內容，包括我們的財務業績、10-Q、季度運營補充以及 MBIA 保險公司和國家公共財政擔保公司的法定財務報表。

We also posted updates to the listings of our insurance company's insurance portfolios. Regarding today's call, please note that anything said on the call is qualified by the information provided in the company's 10-K, 10-Q and other SEC filings, as our company's definitive disclosures are incorporated in those documents.

我們還發布了保險公司保險組合列表的更新。關於今天的電話會議，請注意，電話會議中所說的任何內容均符合公司 10-K、10-Q 和其他 SEC 文件中提供的信息，因為我們公司的最終披露信息已納入這些文件中。

We urge investors to read our 10-K and 10-Qs as they contain our most current disclosures about the company and its financial and operating results. Those documents also contain information that may not be addressed on today's call. The definitions and reconciliations of the non-GAAP terms included in our remarks today are also included in our 10-K and 10-Qs as well as our financial results report and our quarterly operating supplement.

我們敦促投資者閱讀我們的 10-K 和 10-Q，因為它們包含我們有關公司及其財務和經營業績的最新披露信息。這些文件還包含今天的電話會議中可能未提及的信息。我們今天的講話中包含的非 GAAP 術語的定義和調節也包含在我們的 10-K 和 10-Q 以及我們的財務業績報告和季度運營補充報告中。

The recorded replay of today's call will become available approximately 2 hours after the end of the call and the information for accessing it was included in last week's press announcement and in the financial results report posted yesterday on the MBIA website.

今天的電話會議錄音重播將在電話會議結束大約 2 小時後提供，訪問該電話會議的信息已包含在上週的新聞公告和昨天在 MBIA 網站上發布的財務業績報告中。

Now for our safe harbor disclosure statement. Our remarks on today's conference call may contain forward-looking statements. Important factors such as general market conditions and the competitive environment could cause our actual results to differ materially from the projected results referenced in our forward-looking statements.

現在我們的安全港披露聲明。我們在今天的電話會議上的發言可能包含前瞻性陳述。一般市場狀況和競爭環境等重要因素可能導致我們的實際結果與我們前瞻性陳述中引用的預測結果存在重大差異。

Risk factors are detailed in our 10-K and 10-Q, which are available on our website at mbia.com. The company cautions not to place undue reliance on any such forward-looking statements. The company also undertakes no obligation to publicly correct or update any forward-looking statement if it later becomes aware that such statement is no longer accurate. For our call today, Bill Fallon and Anthony McKiernan will provide introductory comments, and then a question-and-answer session will follow. Now here is Bill Fallon.

我們的 10-K 和 10-Q 中詳細介紹了風險因素，可在我們的網站 mbia.com 上獲取。該公司警告不要過分依賴任何此類前瞻性陳述。如果公司後來發現此類聲明不再準確，公司也不承擔公開更正或更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務。在我們今天的電話會議中，比爾·法倫和安東尼·麥基南將提供介紹性評論，然後將進行問答環節。現在請比爾·法倫發言。

Thanks, Greg. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for being with us today. Our principal focus remains on achieving a final resolution of our last material exposure to the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority, or PREPA.

謝謝，格雷格。大家，早安。感謝您今天和我們在一起。我們的主要重點仍然是最終解決我們對波多黎各聯邦、波多黎各電力局或 PREPA 的最後重大風險。

While we await the filing of PREPA's third plan of adjustment, we continue our efforts to deliver shareholder value in other areas, including by reducing expenses, monitoring the runoff of our insurance portfolios and repurchasing shares.

在等待 PREPA 提交第三次調整計劃的同時，我們繼續努力在其他領域實現股東價值，包括減少開支、監控保險投資組合的流失以及回購股票。

After the MBIA Inc. Board of Directors approved a $100 million share repurchase authorization in May, National and MBIA Inc. have purchased a combined 3 million shares of MBIA common stock at an average price of $8.08 per share, which has reduced MBIA's outstanding share count to 51.9 million as of July 26, 2023. $76 million remained outstanding from the May authorization.

MBIA Inc. 董事會於 5 月批准了 1 億美元的股票回購授權後，National 和 MBIA Inc. 以每股 8.08 美元的平均價格購買了總計 300 萬股 MBIA 普通股，這減少了 MBIA 的流通股數量截至2023 年7 月26 日，該金額增至5,190 萬美元。5 月份授權中尚未支付7,600 萬美元。

Regarding our second quarter financial results, while National had a modest net loss for the quarter for the first 6 months of 2023, it maintained positive net income on a GAAP basis and had a modest loss on a statutory basis. The results demonstrate the stability of National's financial results absent significant adjustments to its losses and loss adjustment expenses.

關於我們第二季度的財務業績，雖然國家黨在2023 年前6 個月的季度出現了小幅淨虧損，但按照公認會計原則(GAAP) 計算，它保持了正的淨利潤，並且在法定基礎上也出現了小幅虧損。結果表明，在未對其損失和損失調整費用進行重大調整的情況下，國家能源集團的財務業績保持穩定。

As noted earlier, we remain hopeful that PREPA will resolve sooner rather than later. Following the insurance claims payments made by National on July 1 of this year, its remaining exposure to PREPA is $610 million of gross par insured.

如前所述，我們仍然希望 PREPA 能夠盡快解決。繼今年 7 月 1 日 National 支付保險索賠後，其剩餘的 PREPA 風險敞口為總保額 6.1 億美元。

The remainder of the insured credits in National's portfolio have continued to perform consistent with our expectations. National's insured portfolio has continued to run off as its outstanding gross par declined by approximately $1.2 billion from year-end 2022 to [$30.5 billion] at June 30, 2023.

國家黨投資組合中其餘受保信貸的表現繼續符合我們的預期。國家黨的保險投資組合持續萎縮，其未償付總面值從 2022 年底下降約 12 億美元至 2023 年 6 月 30 日的 [305 億美元]。

National's leverage ratio of gross par to statutory capital at the end of the second quarter remained unchanged from year-end 2022 at 16:1. As of June 30, 2023, National had total claims paying resources of $2.4 billion and statutory capital in surplus of $1.9 billion.

截至第二季度末，國家黨的總面值與法定資本的槓桿比率與 2022 年底相同，為 16:1。截至 2023 年 6 月 30 日，國家黨的索賠支付資源總額為 24 億美元，法定資本盈餘為 19 億美元。

In May, our Chairman, Charlie Reinhart, retired from the Board after 14 years and 8 as Chairman. I greatly appreciate Charlie's contribution and leadership over those many years. Steve Gilbert, who has been on our Board since 2011 was elected as the new Chairman. Now Anthony will provide additional comments about our financial results.

今年 5 月，我們的董事長 Charlie Reinhart 在擔任董事長 14 年和 8 年後從董事會退休。我非常感謝查理多年來的貢獻和領導。自 2011 年以來一直擔任董事會成員的史蒂夫·吉爾伯特 (Steve Gilbert) 被選為新任董事長。現在安東尼將對我們的財務業績提供更多評論。

Thanks, Bill, and good morning. I will begin with a review of our second quarter 2023 GAAP and non-GAAP results. The company reported a consolidated GAAP net loss of $74 million or a negative $1.46 per share for the second quarter of 2023 compared to a consolidated GAAP net loss of $36 million or negative $0.72 per share for the second quarter ended June 30, 2022.

謝謝，比爾，早上好。我將首先回顧我們 2023 年第二季度的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 業績。該公司公佈的2023 年第二季度綜合GAAP 淨虧損為7400 萬美元，即每股負1.46 美元，而截至2022 年6 月30 日的第二季度，綜合GAAP 淨虧損為3600 萬美元，即每股負0.72 美元。

The higher GAAP net loss this quarter was largely driven by losses on VIEs at MBIA Corp. due to the derisking activity resulting in the deconsolidation of 2 legacy ABS CDOs where the majority of losses were reclassified from other comprehensive income and, therefore, had no effect on total equity.

本季度 GAAP 淨虧損較高，主要是由於 MBIA Corp. 的 VIE 虧損所致，因為去風險活動導致 2 個遺留 ABS CDO 的分拆，其中大部分虧損從其他綜合收益中重新分類，因此沒有影響關於總股本。

Higher interest expense primarily attributed to MBIA Corp.'s surplus notes and loss in LAE expense this quarter at MBIA Corp. versus a loss in LAE benefit in Q2 2022. The increase in operating expenses for the quarter was largely due to an increase in value in the company's nonqualified deferred compensation plan liability, with a corresponding offset in the asset value of the plan, which is reflected in net gains on financial instruments and net investment income.

利息費用增加主要歸因於 MBIA Corp. 的盈餘票據以及本季度 MBIA Corp. 的 LAE 費用損失，而 2022 年第二季度的 LAE 福利損失。本季度運營費用的增加主要是由於價值的增加計入公司的非合格遞延補償計劃負債中，並相應抵消該計劃的資產價值，反映在金融工具淨收益和淨投資收益中。

Offsetting these negative variances were lower loss in LAE at National, higher investment income and lower net realized investment losses. The company's adjusted net loss, a non-GAAP measure, was $22 million or a negative $0.45 per diluted share for the second quarter of 2023 compared with an adjusted net loss of $47 million or a negative $0.93 per diluted share for the second quarter of 2022.

國家銀行 LAE 損失減少、投資收入增加以及已實現淨投資損失減少，抵消了這些負面差異。該公司2023 年第二季度的調整後淨虧損（非GAAP 指標）為2200 萬美元，即稀釋後每股負0.45 美元，而2022 年第二季度調整後淨虧損為4700 萬美元，即稀釋後每股負0.93 美元。

The favorable change was due primarily to the lower loss in LAE at National. MBIA Inc's. book value per share decreased to a negative $19.21 per share as of June 30, 2023, versus a negative $16.07 per share as of December 31, 2022, primarily due to a net loss for the year and second quarter 2023 share repurchases partially offset by decreased unrealized losses on investments recorded to other comprehensive income, driven by tighter credit spreads and lower interest rates.

這一有利的變化主要是由於國家航空的 LAE 損失減少。 MBIA 公司的。截至2023 年6 月30 日，每股賬面價值下降至負19.21 美元，而截至2022 年12 月31 日，每股賬面價值為負16.07 美元，主要是由於本年度淨虧損和2023 年第二季度股票回購被減少的部分抵消。由於信貸利差收窄和利率下降，未實現投資損失計入其他綜合收益。

Included in book value as of June 30, 2023, is a negative $41.88 per share book value of MBIA Corp. I will now spend a few minutes on the Corporate segment balance sheet and our insurance company's statutory results. The Corporate segment, which primarily includes the activity of the holding company, MBIA Inc., had total assets of approximately $611 million as of June 30, 2023.

截至 2023 年 6 月 30 日的賬面價值中包括 MBIA Corp 每股 41.88 美元的負賬面價值。我現在將花幾分鐘時間介紹一下公司部門的資產負債表和我們保險公司的法定業績。公司部門主要包括控股公司 MBIA Inc. 的活動，截至 2023 年 6 月 30 日，總資產約為 6.11 億美元。

Within this total are the following material items. Unencumbered cash and liquid assets held by MBIA Inc. totaled approximately $197 million as of June 30, 2023, compared with $230 million as of December 31, 2022, due to the repurchase of $10 million of 2024 maturity GFL, MTNs at a discount and debt service and operating expenses.

其中包括以下材料項目。截至2023 年6 月30 日，MBIA Inc. 持有的未支配現金和流動資產總計約為1.97 億美元，而截至2022 年12 月31 日為2.3 億美元，原因是折價回購了1,000 萬美元的2024 年到期的GFL、MTN 和債務服務和運營費用。

The Corporate segment's assets also included approximately $306 million of assets at market value pledged to the GICs and the interest rate swaps supporting the legacy GIC operation. Turning to the insurance company's statutory results.

企業部門的資產還包括按市場價值抵押給 GIC 的約 3.06 億美元資產以及支持傳統 GIC 業務的利率互換。轉向保險公司的法定結果。

National reported a statutory net loss of $11 million for the quarter ended June 30, 2023, versus a statutory net loss of $44 million for the quarter ended June 30, 2022. The favorable comparison was primarily due to lower loss in LAE and higher investment income.

National 報告，截至2023 年6 月30 日的季度法定淨虧損為1,100 萬美元，而截至2022 年6 月30 日的季度法定淨虧損為4,400 萬美元。這一有利的比較主要是由於LAE 虧損較低和投資收入較高。

Statutory capital decreased by $10 million from year-end 2022 and was $1.9 billion as of 6/30, 2023, primarily due to National's purchase of MBIA Inc. shares during the second quarter. Claims paying resources were $2.4 billion.

法定資本較 2022 年底減少 1,000 萬美元，截至 2023 年 6 月 30 日為 19 億美元，主要是由於國家黨在第二季度購買 MBIA Inc. 股票。索賠支付資源為 24 億美元。

From inception through 6/30, 2023, gross claims paid on insured Puerto Rico exposure totaled approximately $2.9 billion. And in July, National paid additional gross claims of $119 million on the PREPA bonds at insurers.

從成立到 2023 年 6 月 30 日，波多黎各保險風險敞口支付的索賠總額約為 29 億美元。 7 月，國家黨向保險公司額外支付了 1.19 億美元的 PREPA 債券索賠總額。

Turning to MBIA Insurance Corp. its statutory net loss was $128,000 for the second quarter of 2023 compared to a statutory net loss of $6.3 million for the second quarter of 2022. The favorable comparison was primarily due to lower loss in LAE expense in 2Q 2023.

至於MBIA Insurance Corp.，其2023 年第二季度的法定淨虧損為128,000 美元，而2022 年第二季度的法定淨虧損為630 萬美元。這一有利的比較主要是由於2023 年第二季度LAE 費用損失較低。

As of June 30, 2023, the statutory capital of MBIA Insurance Corp. was $148 million, down from $169 million at the end of 2022, primarily due to its year-to-date net loss. Claims paying resources totaled $561 million versus $669 million at year-end 2022 due in part to a reduction in gross loss reserves associated with several deal liquidations and the year-to-date net loss.

截至 2023 年 6 月 30 日，MBIA Insurance Corp. 的法定資本為 1.48 億美元，低於 2022 年底的 1.69 億美元，主要是由於其年初至今的淨虧損。索賠支付資源總額為 5.61 億美元，而 2022 年底為 6.69 億美元，部分原因是與幾筆交易清算相關的毛損失準備金減少以及年初至今的淨損失。

MBIA Corp.'s insured gross par outstanding reduced by approximately $130 million during the quarter and was $3.2 billion as of June 30, 2023. And now we will turn the call over to the operator to begin the question-and-answer session.

MBIA Corp. 的保險未償還總面值在本季度減少了約 1.3 億美元，截至 2023 年 6 月 30 日為 32 億美元。現在我們將把電話轉交給運營商以開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

We'll take our first question from Tommy McJoynt with KBW.

我們將接受 KBW 的 Tommy McJoynt 提出的第一個問題。

I can't remember if you mentioned this on the prepared remarks, but what is National's statutory capacity for buybacks as of June 30?

我不記得你在準備好的發言中是否提到過這一點，但截至 6 月 30 日，國家黨的法定回購能力是多少？

As of June 30, National had about $50 million of capacity left to purchase shares.

截至 6 月 30 日，國家黨還有約 5,000 萬美元的剩餘資金可用於購買股票。

Okay. Got it. And then -- forgive me, just because it's somewhat complicated to think about. But to the extent that National is monetized by a sale to a third party, what happens to the shares that National has repurchased, do those suddenly become outstanding again and effectively indirectly owned by that third-party since they're no longer part of the consolidated entity?

好的。知道了。然後——請原諒我，只是因為考慮起來有點複雜。但就國家黨通過出售給第三方來貨幣化而言，國家黨回購的股票會發生什麼情況，這些股票是否會突然再次流通並實際上由該第三方間接擁有，因為它們不再是該第三方的一部分？合併實體？

Are you talking about if National is sold or MBIA Inc. is sold?

您是在談論National 被出售還是MBIA Inc. 被出售？

If just National, just the subsidiary is sold.

如果只是National，則僅出售子公司。

Most likely, the structure of the transaction would be that those shares would end up being retired. You'd have to get DFS approval, but most likely, they would be sent to the holding company and retired.

最有可能的是，交易的結構是這些股票最終將被退役。你必須獲得 DFS 的批准，但最有可能的是，他們會被送到控股公司並退休。

Got it. Okay. Mechanically, that does make sense. Okay. And then last question, was -- National's provision that you appeared to attribute to PREPA, was that driven by just the extension of the process of really a time value of money function? Or was it based on any lower absolute expected recoveries?

知道了。好的。從機械角度來說，這確實有道理。好的。最後一個問題是——您似乎將其歸咎於 PREPA 的國家黨條款，這是否只是由真正的貨幣時間價值函數過程的擴展驅動的？或者是基於任何較低的絕對預期回收率？

Tommy, on that, I think it was a combination of things. The delay is one piece of it. Just looking at as there is the delay, the lack of subscription from other parties at this point and looking at court rulings and just potential risk to confirmability and levels, we just took all that into account this quarter and made some adjustments to what our view of our compensation and claims are.

湯米，就這一點而言，我認為這是多種因素共同作用的結果。延遲是其中的一部分。考慮到存在延遲、目前缺乏其他各方的認購、法院裁決以及可確認性和水平的潛在風險，我們在本季度就考慮了所有這些因素，並對我們的觀點進行了一些調整我們的賠償和索賠是。

We'll take the next question from Paul Saunders with Hutch Capital.

我們將回答 Hutch Capital 的 Paul Saunders 提出的下一個問題。

I just have a quick one on PREPA. Just a lot has happened since you guys last reported. I was just hoping to get your perspective on, I guess, the state of play for National.

我只是在 PREPA 上快速了解一下。自從你們上次報告以來，發生了很多事情。我想我只是希望了解你對國家隊現狀的看法。

And so I know National has this settlement. I'm curious, just your thoughts, do you expect that? I know it seems like they're trying to keep that in the latest plan and just -- can you just provide a little more color on how you see this planned process going on? It's just a little hard to follow just in the papers and the filings.

所以我知道國家黨有這個和解。我很好奇，只是你的想法，你期待嗎？我知道他們似乎正試圖將其保留在最新的計劃中，您能否提供更多信息來說明您如何看待這個計劃過程的進行？只是在文件和文件中有點難以追踪。

Yes. Paul, you actually just gave a pretty good description of the state of play. I'm not sure that I can add much to it. They were supposed to file a plan a few weeks back.

是的。保羅，你實際上剛剛很好地描述了比賽的狀態。我不確定我能補充多少。他們本應在幾週前提交一份計劃。

They've had 2 extensions. The current deadline is tomorrow. I don't know if there'll be another extension or whether they will file something. Other than that, you mentioned we have a PSA that's been in place for quite a while at this point that details our agreement with PREPA and the oversight board.

他們有兩次延期。目前的截止日期是明天。我不知道是否會有另一個擴展或者他們是否會提交一些文件。除此之外，您提到我們已經制定了一份 PSA 相當長一段時間，其中詳細說明了我們與 PREPA 和監督委員會的協議。

So we're very focused on it, as we mentioned in our comments. We'll see what happens over the next short period of time with regard to a plan. And other than that, I don't know if there's a whole lot more that we can say that you don't already know.

因此，正如我們在評論中提到的，我們非常關注它。我們將看看在接下來的短時間內會發生什麼有關計劃的事情。除此之外，我不知道是否還有很多我們可以說你還不知道的事情。

Well, I guess -- I'm not sure if you can discuss it, but are other bondholders, or is anyone asking you guys to [recoupe] the PSA you have? Or what's -- I guess, can you give me any sense of your confidence level of that ultimately being in the plan that gets confirmed?

好吧，我想——我不確定你們是否可以討論這個問題，但是其他債券持有人，或者是否有人要求你們[收回]你們擁有的PSA？或者是什麼——我想，你能告訴我你對最終得到確認的計劃的信心程度嗎？

Our view is we have a legal contract, which is the PSA. And our sense was a few weeks ago when we were just about to file, that PSA would be a part of the plan of adjustment that would be filed.

我們的觀點是我們有一份合法的合同，這就是 PSA。幾週前，當我們正要提交文件時，我們就感覺到 PSA 將成為將提交的調整計劃的一部分。

And our view is that will continue to be the case. But other than that, I know there's lots of speculation out there, but I don't know what's going to transpire.

我們的觀點是情況將繼續如此。但除此之外，我知道外面有很多猜測，但我不知道會發生什麼。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

We will take our next question from John Staley with Staley Capital Advisors.

我們將回答 Staley Capital Advisors 的 John Staley 提出的下一個問題。

And obviously, Puerto Rico is the issue, but I'm very curious, you chatted before in a prior call about the sensitivity to the buyback price. And you indicated that you reinstated a $100 million program based on the market value, et cetera.

顯然，波多黎各是問題所在，但我很好奇，您之前在之前的電話會議中談到了對回購價格的敏感性。您表示您根據市場價值恢復了 1 億美元的計劃，等等。

But forgetting book value, obviously, there's an intrinsic value here. There's a value that you guys know from your insights in the industry and the process you went through with Barclays, what kind of spread motivates you versus the guys who were selling. You guys have 3 million shares come in, which is a pretty substantial amount, given the trading volume of people who got the $8 plus a share was a good price to sell it.

但忘記賬面價值，顯然，這裡有內在價值。你們從對行業的洞察以及在巴克萊銀行經歷的過程中知道了一種價值，與銷​​售人員相比，什麼樣的價差會激勵您。你們有 300 萬股進來，這是一個相當大的數量，考慮到獲得 8 美元加上每股的交易量是一個很好的出售價格。

And obviously, it's -- forget all these fancy little accounting numbers, there's an intrinsic value here that motivates you to use your capital to buy the stock back in $8-plus. What is that spread?

顯然，忘掉所有這些花哨的小會計數字吧，這裡有一種內在價值，會激勵你用你的資本以 8 美元以上的價格買回股票。那傳播是什麼？

I mean, where do you, in the market, say, "Enough, we're not buying anymore?" I'm just curious what drives the decision I know the mechanics of buybacks are difficult. But what drives the real issue of what you'll pay versus what you feel is creating value for the remaining shareholders in offsetting the shrinkage that's occurring just by operating the expenses on a company that's not doing anything in terms of new issuance of insurance, just battling to recover value from your prior Puerto Rico exposure?

我的意思是，在市場上，你會在哪裡說：“夠了，我們不再購買了？”我只是好奇是什麼推動了我的決定，我知道回購機制很困難。但是，真正的問題在於，你將支付的費用與你所感受到的費用之間的關係是為剩餘股東創造價值，以抵消僅通過運營一家在新發行保險方面沒有做任何事情的公司的費用而發生的萎縮。正在努力從之前的波多黎各風險中恢復價值嗎？

In some ways, I think, implicitly, you've cited a lot of things that we look at. So as we've said in the past, there's lots of factors that go in when we buy. And you're absolutely correct, put aside all the accounting numbers, there is some intrinsic value that all shareholders probably think about with regard to their buying and selling of all stocks, and in this case, our stock.

在某些方面，我認為，您隱含地引用了我們所關注的很多事情。正如我們過去所說，我們購買時會考慮很多因素。你是絕對正確的，拋開所有的會計數字，所有股東在買賣所有股票（在這種情況下，就是我們的股票）時可能都會考慮一些內在價值。

We do a similar analysis. And as you can imagine, that's a fairly dynamic process. So at any point in time, there's lots of variables that are moving around. As we mentioned in the release and in the prepared remarks, we bought it just over $8 a share. Obviously, we thought that was a good price. One of the challenges is that because of regulations, we're limited in how many shares we can buy for example, on any given day, right?

我們也做了類似的分析。正如您可以想像的那樣，這是一個相當動態的過程。因此，在任何時間點，都有很多變量在變化。正如我們在新聞稿和準備好的評論中提到的，我們購買了每股 8 美元多一點的股票。顯然，我們認為這是一個很好的價格。挑戰之一是，由於法規的原因，我們在任何一天可以購買的股票數量受到限制，對吧？

It has to do with the average trading volume over the previous 4 weeks. But to your point, we bought between 5% and 6% of the outstanding shares since we last talked. Again, we thought it was a good opportunity for the longer-term shareholders of the company. And again, it's all the factors you mentioned.

它與過去 4 週的平均交易量有關。但就你而言，自上次談話以來，我們購買了 5% 至 6% 的已發行股票。同樣，我們認為這對於公司的長期股東來說是一個很好的機會。再說一次，這就是你提到的所有因素。

It's what we think, for example, we might get in the sale. It's what we think the financial situation is it at National at any point in time, interest rates come into play, how much liquidity we have at national. And you did see that we bought some shares at Inc. since the last earnings call.

例如，這就是我們認為我們可能會在銷售中得到的東西。這就是我們認為國家黨在任何時候的財務狀況、利率發揮作用、我們國家黨有多少流動性。您確實看到，自上次財報電話會議以來，我們購買了 Inc. 的一些股票。

And so we have to be sort of judicious in how we use that liquidity and at what price we buy shares. So there may be at times where people think, "Wow, we should have bought even more shares." It could be that we're just trying to conserve. In this case, we had the $100 million authorization but we also look beyond that to what long-term liquidity might look at. So I think it's all the things that you've mentioned.

因此，我們必須謹慎對待如何使用流動性以及以什麼價格購買股票。因此，有時人們可能會想：“哇，我們應該購買更多股票。”可能我們只是想節約。在本例中，我們獲得了 1 億美元的授權，但我們還著眼於長期流動性。所以我認為這就是你提到的所有事情。

We don't actually state at any point in time what we think the spread is versus sort of an estimated range of intrinsic value, but you can be assured if we're buying shares, we think it's good for our long-term shareholders.

我們實際上並沒有在任何時候說明我們認為的利差與內在價值的估計範圍的關係，但你可以放心，如果我們購買股票，我們認為這對我們的長期股東有利。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

And we will take a follow-up from Paul Saunders with Hutch Capital.

我們將關注 Paul Saunders 和 Hutch Capital 的後續報導。

Just following up on John's question on the share buyback. I mean, I guess it's not often that I see companies with debt trading at $0.30, $0.40 on the dollar and double-digit yields, buying back stock as opposed to the discounted debt.

只是跟進約翰關於股票回購的問題。我的意思是，我想我很少看到債務交易價格為 0.30 美元、0.40 美元和兩位數收益率的公司回購股票而不是貼現債務。

So -- can you guys talk at all about how you view sort of what's the better use of capital in terms of stock versus bonds? I know you tackle the shorter dated bonds, but I'm thinking more the ones once you're getting to the 11%, 12% yields with longer maturities, how do you guys think about the value of those versus the value of repurchasing shares?

那麼，你們能談談你們如何看待股票和債券方面的資本更好的利用方式嗎？我知道你們會處理期限較短的債券，但我更多地考慮的是，一旦你們的收益率達到11%、12%、期限較長的債券，你們如何看待這些債券的價值與回購股票的價值？

Yes. Paul, I'll let Anthony get into the details of the bond repurchases, but I'm not sure that there's -- we have bonds that are trading on $0.30 -- trading at $0.30 on the dollar.

是的。保羅，我會讓安東尼了解債券回購的細節，但我不確定——我們的債券的交易價格是 0.30 美元——兌美元的交易價格是 0.30 美元。

Yes. Paul, and -- maybe just going to the mechanical part of your question. The way the holding company is set up, we look at near-term liquidity, and we look to see how far we can go and handle the obligations under a steady-state operation, which I would define as normal income at Inc. plus the as-of-right dividend from National every year.

是的。保羅，也許只是談談你問題的機械部分。控股公司的設立方式，我們著眼於近期流動性，我們著眼於我們能夠走多遠並處理穩態運營下的義務，我將其定義為公司的正常收入加上每年從國家黨獲得的股息。

So when we look at that liquidity profile, we look at the nearer term, to your point, we're looking at the nearer term debt, which we did this quarter, for example, which we were able to get a good discount. But we are focused on the near to medium-term obligations at the holding company.

因此，當我們考慮流動性狀況時，我們會考慮近期債務，例如我們本季度所做的，我們能夠獲得很好的折扣。但我們關注的是控股公司的近中期義務。

So -- just generally speaking, first of all, I don't think the debt's trading nearly that low that I've seen, but also just going out significantly further on the curve at this point is just probably not the most prudent thing for the holding company.

因此，總的來說，首先，我認為債務交易價格並沒有我所見過的那麼低，而且目前在曲線上進一步大幅走高可能不是最謹慎的事情控股公司。

Okay. Got it. Yes. To be clear, the discounted bonds I'm talking about are the GFLs, not the Holdco yet, but I view them sort of Holdco obligations as well.

好的。知道了。是的。需要明確的是，我所說的貼現債券是 GFL，而不是 Holdco，但我也認為它們是 Holdco 義務。

Yes.

是的。

And there appears to be no further questions at this time. I will turn the call back over to Greg Diamond for closing remarks.

目前似乎沒有進一步的問題。我將把電話轉回給格雷格·戴蒙德（Greg Diamond）做結束語。

Thanks again, Ashley, and thanks to those of you listening to the call today. Please contact us directly if you have any additional questions. We also recommend that you visit our website at mbia.com for additional information on the company. Thank you for your interest in MBIA. Good day, and goodbye.

再次感謝阿什利，也感謝今天收聽電話會議的各位。如果您還有任何其他問題，請直接聯繫我們。我們還建議您訪問我們的網站 mbia.com，了解有關該公司的更多信息。感謝您對 MBIA 的興趣。美好的一天，再見。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This does conclude today's MBIA Second Quarter 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. You may now disconnect.

謝謝你們，女士們、先生們。今天的 MBIA 2023 年第二季度財務業績電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連接。