MBIA Inc (MBI) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the MBIA Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2022 Financial Results Conference Call. I would now like to turn the call over to Greg Diamond, Managing Director of Investor and Media Relations at MBIA. Please go ahead, sir.

早上好，歡迎來到 MBIA 第四季度和 2022 年全年財務業績電話會議。我現在想把電話轉給 MBIA 投資者和媒體關係董事總經理 Greg Diamond。請繼續，先生。

Thank you, Todd. Welcome to MBIA's conference call. After the market closed yesterday, we issued and posted several items to our websites, including our financial results, 10-K, quarterly operating supplement and statutory financial statements for both MBIA Insurance Corporation and National Public Finance Guarantee Corporation. Regarding today's call, please note that anything said on the call is qualified by the information provided in the company's 10-K and other SEC filings as our company's definitive disclosures are incorporated in those documents. We urge investors to read our 10-K as it contains our most current disclosures about the company and its financial and operating results. 10-K also contains information that may not be addressed on today's call.

謝謝你，托德。歡迎來到 MBIA 的電話會議。昨天收市後，我們在我們的網站上發布並發布了幾項內容，包括我們的財務業績、10-K、季度運營補充以及 MBIA 保險公司和國家公共財政擔保公司的法定財務報表。關於今天的電話會議，請注意，電話會議上所說的任何內容均符合公司 10-K 和其他 SEC 文件中提供的信息，因為我們公司的最終披露已納入這些文件。我們敦促投資者閱讀我們的 10-K，因為它包含我們關於公司及其財務和經營業績的最新披露。 10-K 還包含今天的電話會議可能無法解決的信息。

The definitions and reconciliations of the non-GAAP terms included in our remarks today are also included in our 10-K as well as our financial results report and our quarterly operating supplement. The recorded replay of today's call will become available approximately 2 hours after the end of the call, and the information for accessing it was included in last night's press release and in the financial results report posted yesterday on the MBIA website. Now for our safe harbor disclosure statement. Our remarks on today's conference call may contain forward-looking statements. Important factors such as general market conditions and the competitive environment could cause our actual results to differ materially from the projected results referenced in our forward-looking statements.

我們今天的評論中包含的非 GAAP 條款的定義和調節也包含在我們的 10-K 以及我們的財務業績報告和季度運營補充中。今天電話會議的錄音重播將在電話會議結束約 2 小時後提供，訪問它的信息包含在昨晚的新聞稿和昨天在 MBIA 網站上發布的財務業績報告中。現在是我們的安全港披露聲明。我們在今天的電話會議上發表的言論可能包含前瞻性陳述。一般市場條件和競爭環境等重要因素可能導致我們的實際結果與我們的前瞻性陳述中引用的預測結果存在重大差異。

Risk factors are detailed in our 10-K, which is available on our website at mbia.com. Company cautions not to place undue reliance on any such forward-looking statements. Company also undertakes no obligation to publicly correct or update any forward-looking statement if it later becomes aware that such statement is no longer accurate. For our call today, Bill Fallon and Anthony McKiernan, will provide introductory comments and then a question-and-answer session will follow.

風險因素在我們的 10-K 中有詳細說明，可在我們的網站 mbia.com 上獲取。公司告誡不要過分依賴任何此類前瞻性陳述。如果公司後來發現此類陳述不再準確，公司也不承擔公開更正或更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。對於我們今天的電話會議，Bill Fallon 和 Anthony McKiernan 將提供介紹性評論，然後是問答環節。

Now here is Bill Fallon.

現在是比爾·法倫。

Thanks, Greg. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for being with us today. As I reported last quarter, we have hired Barclays as an adviser to help us explore potential strategic opportunities for the company, and that process remains ongoing. Our assessment of the alternatives will be deliberate and guided by our determination to create value for our shareholders while also meeting all obligations to policyholders. As I noted last quarter, we do not intend to disclose further developments regarding this process, unless and until we determine that further disclosure is appropriate or necessary. Additionally, no specific outcome can be guaranteed.

謝謝，格雷格。大家，早安。感謝您今天與我們在一起。正如我在上個季度報告的那樣，我們聘請了巴克萊銀行作為顧問，幫助我們探索公司的潛在戰略機會，並且這一過程仍在進行中。我們對備選方案的評估將經過深思熟慮，並以我們為股東創造價值同時履行對保單持有人的所有義務的決心為指導。正如我在上個季度指出的那樣，我們不打算披露有關此流程的進一步發展，除非並且直到我們確定進一步披露是適當或必要的。此外，無法保證具體結果。

Since our last conference call, the plan of adjustment to restructure the debt of the Puerto Rico Highways and Transportation Authority or HTA was confirmed and implemented and National extinguished its insured exposure of HTA bonds. National's last remaining significant Puerto Rico exposure is, PREPA. In December, National reached an agreement in principle with the Puerto Rico Oversight Management Board regarding PREPA's proposed plan of adjustment.

自我們上次電話會議以來，重組波多黎各公路和運輸管理局 (HTA) 債務的調整計劃得到確認和實施，National 消除了其 HTA 債券的保險敞口。國家黨最後剩下的重要波多黎各業務是 PREPA。 12 月，國家黨與波多黎各監督管理委員會就 PREPA 提出的調整計劃達成原則性協議。

That agreement resulted in National entering into a planned support agreement that, among other things, provided for the consensual resolution of the treatment of claims held by National related to insured PREPA revenue bonds and PREPA's amended plan of adjustment. The PSA remains subject to a number of conditions, including but not limited to, the Title III Court's approval of the amended plan of adjustment and confirmation and effectiveness of such amended plan. As of December 31, National's remaining exposure to PREPA is approximately $710 million of gross par insured.

該協議導致國家黨簽訂了一項計劃中的支持協議，除其他事項外，該協議規定以協商一致的方式解決國家黨持有的與投保的 PREPA 收入債券和 PREPA 修訂後的調整計劃有關的索賠處理。 PSA 仍然受制於許多條件，包括但不限於，Title III 法院批准修改後的調整計劃以及確認此類修改後的計劃的有效性。截至 12 月 31 日，國家黨對 PREPA 的剩餘風險敞口約為 7.1 億美元的總保額。

Turning to National's other insured credits, the insured portfolio has continued to perform consistent with our expectations. National's insured portfolio has continued to run off as its outstanding gross par declined by $4.8 billion from year-end 2021 to approximately $32 billion at December 31, 2022. National's leverage ratio of gross par to statutory capital declined to 16 : 1 at the end of 2022 down from 18 : 1 at the end of 2021. As of December 31, 2022, National had total claims paying resources of $2.4 billion and statutory capital surplus of $1.9 billion.

談到國家銀行的其他保險信貸，保險組合的表現繼續符合我們的預期。 National 的保險投資組合繼續減少，因為其未償還毛面值從 2021 年底下降了 48 億美元，至 2022 年 12 月 31 日的約 320 億美元。National 的毛面值與法定資本的槓桿比率在 2021 年底降至 16:1 2022 年從 2021 年底的 18:1 下降。截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日，National 的索賠支付資源總額為 24 億美元，法定資本盈餘為 19 億美元。

Now Anthony will provide additional comments about our financial results.

現在，安東尼將就我們的財務業績提供更多評論。

Thanks, Bill, and good morning. I will begin with a review of our fourth quarter and full year 2022 GAAP and non-GAAP results. The company reported a consolidated GAAP net loss of $52 million or negative $1.05 per share for the fourth quarter of 2022, compared to a consolidated GAAP net loss of $155 million or negative $3.12 per share for the fourth quarter ended December 31, 2021. The lower net loss this quarter was largely driven by lower loss in LAE at National, as National stated a loss in LAE benefit in the fourth quarter of 2022 versus an expense in Q4 2021 related to Puerto Rico insured exposures. Lower loss in LAE at MBIA Corp, as corp stated a loss in LAE benefit in the fourth quarter of 2022 primarily due to higher risk-free rates on its insured RMBS exposure versus an expense in Q4 2021 due to lower projected Zohar recoveries, higher investment income and gains on VIEs at MBIA Corp.

謝謝，比爾，早上好。我將首先回顧我們的第四季度和 2022 年全年 GAAP 和非 GAAP 結果。該公司報告稱，2022 年第四季度的綜合 GAAP 淨虧損為 5200 萬美元或每股負 1.05 美元，而截至 2021 年 12 月 31 日的第四季度的綜合 GAAP 淨虧損為 1.55 億美元或每股負 3.12 美元。較低的本季度的淨虧損主要是由於 National 的 LAE 虧損減少所致，因為 National 表示 2022 年第四季度的 LAE 收益損失與 2021 年第四季度與波多黎各保險風險相關的費用相比。 MBIA Corp 的 LAE 損失減少，因為公司表示 2022 年第四季度 LAE 收益損失主要是由於其受保 RMBS 敞口的無風險利率高於 2021 年第四季度的費用，原因是預計 Zohar 回收率較低，投資增加MBIA Corp. 的 VIE 收入和收益

These favorable variances were somewhat offset by losses from discontinued operations related to an impairment on Zohar-related collateral at MBIA Corp. As of December 31, National sold all of the Puerto Rico GO bonds it had received as part of the GO debt restructuring implemented in March of 2022, and approximately 58% of its Puerto Rico GO related contingent value instruments or CVIs. As of today, we've now sold 73% of the GO CVI. National also sold approximately 22% of its HTA CVIs during the year. And as of today, we've sold 58% of the HTA CVIs.

這些有利差異在一定程度上被因 MBIA Corp 的 Zohar 相關抵押品減值而導致的中止業務損失所抵消。截至 12 月 31 日，National 出售了其收到的所有波多黎各 GO 債券，作為 GO 債務重組的一部分2022 年 3 月，約 58% 的 Puerto Rico GO 與或有價值工具或 CVI 相關。截至今天，我們已經售出 73% 的 GO CVI。 National 在這一年中還出售了大約 22% 的 HTA CVI。截至今天，我們已售出 58% 的 HTA CVI。

In Q4, as part of the final HTA settlement, National received cash and $177 million face value of new HTA bonds. At year-end, we had sold 86% of those bonds and sold the remainder subsequent to year-end. The company's adjusted net income, a non-GAAP measure, was $15 million or $0.30 per diluted share for the fourth quarter of 2022 compared with an adjusted net loss of $106 million or a negative $2.13 per diluted share for the fourth quarter of 2021. The favorable change was due primarily to the lower loss in LAE and higher investment income at National.

在第四季度，作為最終 HTA 結算的一部分，國家黨收到了現金和麵值 1.77 億美元的新 HTA 債券。年底時，我們出售了 86% 的債券，並在年底後出售了其餘債券。該公司 2022 年第四季度的調整後淨收入（一項非公認會計原則衡量標準）為 1500 萬美元或攤薄後每股收益 0.30 美元，而 2021 年第四季度調整後淨虧損為 1.06 億美元或攤薄後每股負 2.13 美元。有利的變化主要是由於 LAE 的虧損減少和 National 的投資收益增加。

Turning to fiscal year 2022 results. The company reported a consolidated GAAP net loss of $195 million or a negative $3.92 per share for the fiscal year 2022 compared to a consolidated GAAP net loss of $445 million or a negative $8.99 per share for the year ended December 31, 2021. The lower net loss this year was largely driven by lower loss and LAE at both National and MBIA Corp., higher investment income and gains on VIEs at MBIA Corp. These favorable variances were somewhat offset by losses from discontinued operations related to impairment on Zohar-related collateral at MBIA Corp., realized investment losses and lower premium earnings.

轉向 2022 財年業績。該公司報告稱，2022 財年的綜合 GAAP 淨虧損為 1.95 億美元或每股負 3.92 美元，而截至 2021 年 12 月 31 日止年度的綜合 GAAP 淨虧損為 4.45 億美元或每股負 8.99 美元。較低的淨額今年的虧損主要是由於 National 和 MBIA Corp. 的虧損和 LAE 較低，MBIA Corp. 的投資收入和 VIE 收益較高。這些有利差異在一定程度上被與 Zohar 相關抵押品減值相關的終止經營虧損所抵消MBIA Corp. 實現了投資虧損和較低的保費收益。

The company's adjusted net loss was $145 million or a negative $2.90 per diluted share for the year ended December 31, 2022, compared with an adjusted net loss of $261 million or negative $5.27 per diluted share for the fiscal year 2021. The favorable change was due primarily to lower loss in LAE and higher investment income at National. MBIA Inc.'s book value per share decreased to a negative $16.07 per share as of December 31, 2022, versus a negative $5.73 per share as of December 31, 2021, primarily due to unrealized losses on investments recorded to other comprehensive income driven by higher interest rates and wider credit spreads as well as the $195 million fiscal year 2002 (sic) [2022] net loss. Included in book value is a negative [$37.76] per share of book value of MBIA Corp.

截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日止年度，公司調整後淨虧損為 1.45 億美元或攤薄後每股負 2.90 美元，而 2021 財年調整後淨虧損為 2.61 億美元或攤薄後每股負 5.27 美元。有利的變化是由於主要是為了降低 LAE 的損失和提高 National 的投資收益。截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日，MBIA Inc. 的每股賬面價值下降至每股負 16.07 美元，而截至 2021 年 12 月 31 日為每股負 5.73 美元，這主要是由於記入其他綜合收益的投資未實現虧損所致更高的利率和更大的信用利差以及 1.95 億美元的 2002 財年（原文如此）[2022] 淨虧損。計入賬面價值的是 MBIA Corp. 每股賬面價值的負 [37.76 美元]。

I will now spend a few minutes on the corporate segment balance sheet and our insurance company's statutory results. The corporate segment, which primarily includes the activity of the holding company, MBIA Inc., had total assets of approximately $645 million as of December 31, 2022. Within this total are the following material items: unencumbered cash and liquid assets held by MBIA Inc. totaled approximately $230 million as of December 31, 2022, compared with $239 million as of December 31, 2021. The holding company received a $72 million as-of-right dividend from National in November.

我現在將花幾分鐘介紹公司部門的資產負債表和我們保險公司的法定業績。截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日，公司部門主要包括控股公司 MBIA Inc. 的活動，總資產約為 6.45 億美元。其中包括以下重要項目： MBIA Inc. 持有的未支配現金和流動資產. 截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日，總計約為 2.3 億美元，而截至 2021 年 12 月 31 日為 2.39 億美元。該控股公司在 11 月從 National 收到了 7200 萬美元的股息。

The corporate segment's assets also included approximately $324 million of assets at market value pledged to the GICs and the interest rate swaps supporting the legacy GIC operation. Turning to the insurance company's statutory results. National reported statutory net income of $40 million for the quarter ended December 31, 2022, versus statutory net income of $5.5 million for the quarter ended December 31, 2021. The favorable comparison was primarily due to a loss in LAE benefit in Q4 2022 versus loss in LAE expense in Q4 2021 related to the Puerto Rico exposures as well as higher investment and premium income.

公司部門的資產還包括抵押給 GIC 的約 3.24 億美元的市值資產以及支持 GIC 遺留業務的利率掉期。轉向保險公司的法定結果。 National 報告截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日的季度法定淨收入為 4000 萬美元，而截至 2021 年 12 月 31 日的季度法定淨收入為 550 萬美元。有利的比較主要是由於 2022 年第四季度的 LAE 福利損失與損失2021 年第四季度的 LAE 支出與波多黎各的風險敞口以及更高的投資和保費收入有關。

For the 12 months ended 12/31/2022, National reported statutory net income of $75 million versus statutory net income of $55 million for the 12 months ended 12/31/2021. The favorable comparison was primarily due to higher net investment income, lower loss in LAE expense as well as higher premium earnings, somewhat offset by realized investment losses. Statutory capital year-over-year was consistent at $1.9 billion at 12/31/2022 and claims paying resources reduced to $2.4 billion versus $2.9 billion year-over-year due to the settlement and elimination of Puerto Rico GO and HTA exposures. From inception through 12/31/2022, gross claims paid on insured Puerto Rico exposure totaled approximately $2.9 billion.

截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日止的 12 個月，National 報告的法定淨收入為 7500 萬美元，而截至 2021 年 12 月 31 日止的 12 個月法定淨收入為 5500 萬美元。有利的比較主要是由於較高的淨投資收入、較低的 LAE 費用損失以及較高的保費收益，在一定程度上被已實現的投資損失所抵消。由於波多黎各 GO 和 HTA 風險的結算和消除，截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日，法定資本同比穩定為 19 億美元，索賠支付資源減少至 24 億美元，而同比為 29 億美元。從成立到 2022 年 12 月 31 日，為投保的波多黎各風險支付的索賠總額約為 29 億美元。

In Q4, National paid $556 million in claims to fully satisfy outstanding HTA exposure. Turning to MBIA Insurance Corp. Its statutory net income was $16 million for fourth quarter of 2022 compared with a statutory net loss of $40 million for the fourth quarter of 2021. The favorable comparison was primarily due to loss in LAE benefit in Q4 2002, driven by higher statutory discount rates benefiting RMBS and CDO exposure versus loss in LAE expense driven by lower Zohar recoveries in Q4 2021 as well as higher net investment income.

在第四季度，National 支付了 5.56 億美元的索賠，以完全滿足未償還的 HTA 敞口。轉向 MBIA Insurance Corp。其 2022 年第四季度的法定淨收入為 1600 萬美元，而 2021 年第四季度的法定淨虧損為 4000 萬美元。有利的比較主要是由於 2002 年第四季度 LAE 收益的損失，驅動較高的法定貼現率有利於 RMBS 和 CDO 敞口，而 LAE 費用的損失是由於 2021 年第四季度較低的 Zohar 回收率以及較高的淨投資收益。

For the year ended 12/31/2022, MBIA Insurance Corp's statutory net income was $46 million compared to a statutory net loss of $129 million for the year ended 12/31/2021. The favorable comparison was primarily due to a loss in LAE benefit in 2022 driven by higher expected Zohar recoveries versus loss in LAE expense in the prior year due to lower expected Zohar recoveries. The higher statutory discount rate benefiting mostly RMBS exposure and higher net investment income, partially offset by a decline in net premiums earned.

截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日止年度，MBIA Insurance Corp 的法定淨收入為 4600 萬美元，而截至 2021 年 12 月 31 日止年度法定淨虧損為 1.29 億美元。有利的比較主要是由於預期 Zohar 回收率較高導致 2022 年 LAE 收益損失，而上一年由於預期 Zohar 回收率較低導致 LAE 費用損失。較高的法定貼現率主要有利於 RMBS 敞口和較高的淨投資收入，部分被所賺淨保費的下降所抵消。

As of December 31, 2022, the statutory capital of MBIA Insurance Corp. was $169 million and claims paying resources totaled $669 million. MBIA Corp.'s insured gross par outstanding reduced by approximately $700 million during the quarter and was $3.4 billion as of December 31, 2022.

截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日，MBIA Insurance Corp. 的法定資本為 1.69 億美元，理賠支付資源總額為 6.69 億美元。 MBIA Corp.的保險未償付總面值在本季度減少了約 7 億美元，截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日為 34 億美元。

And now we will turn the call over to the operator to begin the question-and-answer session.

現在我們將把電話轉給接線員，開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) We'll take our first question from Tommy McJoynt with KBW.

（操作員說明）我們將從 KBW 的 Tommy McJoynt 那裡回答我們的第一個問題。

Just a couple here. Looking at the loss reserve as of 12/31 on the balance sheet, what recoveries does that bake in for PREPA? Does that reflect the plan of adjustment that was filed in mid-February and so looking at that plan, that recovery amounts to about $0.80 on the dollar to summarize it. Is that right?

這裡只有一對。查看資產負債表上截至 12 月 31 日的損失準備金，這對 PREPA 有何影響？這是否反映了 2 月中旬提交的調整計劃，因此看看該計劃，總結一下，恢復金額約為 0.80 美元。是對的嗎？

So the first part of your question, Tommy -- it's Anthony, is correct. The loss on the GAAP balance sheet -- the loss reserve reflects the economics and transaction that we negotiated related to the PSA. The insurance loss recoverable on the asset side is the recovery on claims we've already paid on PREPA. That all incorporates the transaction that we've negotiated. And I think the recovery, if you put it all together, is a bit higher than what you've described, but it's in the ballpark.

所以你的問題的第一部分，湯米——是安東尼，是正確的。 GAAP 資產負債表上的損失——損失準備金反映了我們協商的與 PSA 相關的經濟和交易。資產方可追回的保險損失是我們已經在 PREPA 上支付的索賠的追回。這一切都包含了我們協商的交易。而且我認為，如果將所有因素放在一起，復甦會比您描述的要高一些，但在大概範圍內。

Okay. And then my next question, it's a bit tough to get a good grasp on tracking some of all of the unrealized fair value marks that flow through the financials here. So just looking at National and MBIA Inc., so the holding company, so excluding MBIA Corp, all else equal, should higher interest rates kind of decrease the net book value there. I guess basically, is there more value in the company at a higher rate or at lower rate environment?

好的。然後是我的下一個問題，要很好地掌握跟踪此處財務報表中所有未實現的公允價值標記有點困難。因此，只要看看 National 和 MBIA Inc.，那麼控股公司，所以不包括 MBIA Corp，在其他條件相同的情況下，如果更高的利率會降低那裡的賬面淨值。我想基本上，公司在高利率或低利率環境中是否有更多價值？

For MBIA Inc., given the, ALM legacy business in general, higher rates are positive, for MBIA Inc, because you know we have the swaps on the ALM business. So we pay fixed and receive floating on those. So a higher interest rate. You can see how the derivative liability has decreased substantially during the year. In the near term for National, the higher interest rates generally have a negative impact on the value of the investment portfolio. But that said, since we have such a handle on how our liquidity is managed over time, we're not in a position where we need to take any kind of forced sale situation there. So as we reinvest National's portfolio over time, we think that should be positive.

對於 MBIA Inc.，鑑於一般的 ALM 遺留業務，對於 MBIA Inc. 來說，更高的利率是積極的，因為你知道我們在 ALM 業務上有掉期。因此，我們支付固定費用並收到浮動費用。所以利率更高。您可以看到衍生負債在這一年中是如何大幅減少的。對於國家銀行而言，短期內較高的利率通常會對投資組合的價值產生負面影響。但話雖如此，由於我們對如何隨著時間的推移管理我們的流動性有這樣的處理方式，我們不需要在那裡採取任何形式的強制出售情況。因此，當我們隨著時間的推移對國家黨的投資組合進行再投資時，我們認為這應該是積極的。

Okay. And then my last one. It doesn't sound like you're going to give kind of an update on the strategic process with Barclays. But can you just comment, do you guys still maintain that, that process is not dependent on PREPA being resolved?

好的。然後是我的最後一個。聽起來您不會提供有關巴克萊銀行戰略流程的最新信息。但是你能不能評論一下，你們是否仍然堅持認為，該過程不依賴於 PREPA 的解決？

Yes, Tommy, as we indicated, we started the process and announced it at the last call. And as we've indicated, given that Puerto Rico and our exposure in Puerto Rico is substantially restructured at this point, it's just the 1 credit. Even on PREPA, there's been substantial progress. We don't believe that, that will stop a transaction if we find the right transaction from happening.

是的，湯米，正如我們所指出的，我們開始了這個過程，並在最後一次電話會議上宣布了它。正如我們已經指出的那樣，鑑於波多黎各和我們在波多黎各的風險在這一點上進行了大幅重組，這只是 1 個信用點。即使在 PREPA 上，也取得了實質性進展。我們不相信，如果我們發現正確的交易不會發生，那將阻止交易。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question will come from John Staley with Daily Capital Advisors.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題將來自 John Staley 和 Daily Capital Advisors。

Bill, I have a couple of questions. The first one, you mentioned on a prior call, that you're -- you work with Barclays evaluating the sale of the company. And if that wasn't robust enough, you would consider a runoff and a liquidation of the company. Obviously, you've been engaged with Barclays for a number of months. Do you have any further qualification of that statement? Do you think you're more likely to sell or more likely to have a runoff or you've not learned anything so far, on that question? I have a couple more questions.

比爾，我有幾個問題。第一個，你在之前的電話中提到過，你是 - 你與巴克萊銀行合作評估公司的出售。如果這還不夠穩健，你會考慮對公司進行決选和清算。顯然，您已經與巴克萊銀行合作數月之久。您對該聲明有任何進一步的限制嗎？在這個問題上，您認為您是更有可能賣出還是更有可能決算，或者到目前為止您還沒有學到任何東西？我還有幾個問題。

Sure. With regard to your first question, I think we've learned a lot so far in the process. We are in the middle of it. And I don't think while we've learned a lot, it has swayed us in either direction as you posed it, whether it be that a sale is more likely or a runoff is more likely. As we've indicated all along, what we want to do is what's best for shareholders. So we continue to look at both those options and evaluate what we're learning during this process. And as I said, when we have something, we'll make sure that everyone knows it.

當然。關於你的第一個問題，我認為到目前為止我們在這個過程中學到了很多東西。我們身處其中。而且我不認為雖然我們學到了很多東西，但它已經在你提出的任何一個方向上影響了我們，無論是銷售更有可能還是徑流更有可能。正如我們一直指出的那樣，我們要做的是對股東最有利的事情。因此，我們將繼續研究這兩個選項，並評估我們在此過程中學到的東西。正如我所說，當我們有一些東西時，我們會確保每個人都知道它。

Okay. Second question, which is very puzzling to me, this looks like a pretty cut and dried situation, whenever you resolve Puerto Rico. And when you entered into this agreement with regard to PREPA, it looks fairly crystallized. You have the odd ball thing of the MBIA Insurance having to stay on its own and doesn't have recourse. I'm just trying to grasp what is not -- what's keeping this process from being concluded? I don't get it. I mean, Assured Guaranty is a LAE over you guys. You said in prior call, the attractiveness of MBIA in addition to its name and its history and its legacy, is capital.

好的。第二個問題，這讓我非常困惑，無論何時解決波多黎各問題，這看起來都像是一個乾脆利落的情況。當您就 PREPA 簽訂此協議時，它看起來相當明確。您有 MBIA 保險的奇怪問題，它必須獨立存在並且沒有追索權。我只是想了解什麼不是——是什麼阻止了這個過程的結束？我不明白。我的意思是，Assured Guaranty 是對你們的 LAE。你在之前的電話中說，MBIA 的吸引力除了它的名字、它的歷史和它的遺產之外，是資本。

You've built up tremendous liquidity. I don't -- what the hell is stopping this process from being completed. I'm really puzzled by it. I realize I'm not an insurance expert, but what facts aren't already on the table?

你已經建立了巨大的流動性。我不知道——到底是什麼阻止了這個過程的完成。我真的很困惑。我知道我不是保險專家，但還有哪些事實尚未擺在桌面上？

Yes, John, I don't think it's a question of whether there's any facts that aren't on the table. As you probably are aware, in any transaction, let's call it an acquisition, there's a tremendous amount of work that goes into that. There are many people that could be interested in the company, and we evaluate all those. And any company that is interested has a certain amount of due diligence that they like to do. So again, we want to make sure that we get good value for the shareholders and that we evaluate all opportunities.

是的，約翰，我認為這不是是否有任何事實沒有擺在桌面上的問題。正如您可能知道的那樣，在任何交易中，我們稱之為收購，其中涉及大量工作。有很多人可能對公司感興趣，我們會評估所有這些人。任何有興趣的公司都會進行一定程度的盡職調查。因此，我們再次希望確保我們為股東獲得良好的價值，並評估所有機會。

And I can't speak for other parties in terms of how quickly or how deliberately they go through the process and therefore, whether that is not necessarily meshing with your time line for a potential transaction.

我不能代表其他方說明他們完成該過程的速度或故意程度，因此，這是否不一定與您的潛在交易時間表相吻合。

Okay. And then 1 final question. Obviously, your management, you and your management team own 19%, 20% of the company. And that's a great incentive to a shareholder like me. And I think you guys have managed your capital, your buybacks and all of that -- there is a reason I've been such a large long-term investor. Assuming there is an acquisition, is there any compensation incentive in place to you and your management team over and above your significant capital share ownership, where you would win just like the rest of the shareholders? Is there any kind of a acquisition bonus or acquisition payday or anything like that, that's built into your structure?

好的。然後是最後一個問題。顯然，你的管理層，你和你的管理團隊擁有公司 19%、20% 的股份。這對像我這樣的股東來說是一個很大的激勵。而且我認為你們已經管理了你們的資本、你們的回購以及所有這些——我成為如此大的長期投資者是有原因的。假設有一項收購，除了您的重要資本股份所有權之外，您和您的管理團隊是否有任何補償激勵措施，您將像其他股東一樣獲勝？是否有任何類型的收購獎金或收購發薪日或類似的東西，內置於您的結構中？

Yes. Couple of thoughts, John. I agree with you in that we've made sure that management is aligned with shareholders. As you point out, I don't know if the number is quite as high as you indicate, but we made sure that management is compensated or significant portion of the compensation is in stock because we wanted to make sure there was alignment. And I think we've done a good job on that. In terms of any specific bonus for the sale of the company, there are no additional bonuses. The incentive is the same as shareholders to make sure that we optimize the value for shareholders.

是的。幾個想法，約翰。我同意你的看法，因為我們已經確保管理層與股東保持一致。正如你所指出的，我不知道這個數字是否像你所說的那麼高，但我們確保管理層得到補償或補償的很大一部分有庫存，因為我們想確保有一致性。我認為我們在這方面做得很好。就出售公司的任何特定獎金而言，沒有額外的獎金。激勵與股東相同，以確保我們為股東優化價值。

(Operator Instructions) And we do have a question in queue. It comes from Hutch Capital.

（操作員說明）我們確實有一個問題在排隊。它來自雙雄資本。

Just wanted to ask -- anyway, can you provide any more color on the sale process just in terms of things that companies usually provide at this point, like how many interested parties there were, how many signed NDAs, sort of, if you guys are in any sort of stage of an M&A time line, just sort of general color like that?

只是想問 - 無論如何，你能否就公司通常在這一點上提供的東西提供更多關於銷售過程的顏色，比如有多少感興趣的各方，有多少簽署的保密協議，如果你們處於併購時間線的任何階段，只是像那樣的一般顏色？

Yes. With regard to the process, as I mentioned, we indicated on the last call a few months ago that we hired Barclays. The process itself is pretty typical for an acquisition process. So it sounds like you're familiar with how those work. We have, obviously, one of the leading banks helping us, and we're going through what I would consider a pretty typical sale process at this point in time.

是的。關於流程，正如我提到的，我們在幾個月前的最後一次電話會議上表示我們聘請了巴克萊銀行。這個過程本身對於收購過程來說是非常典型的。所以聽起來你很熟悉這些是如何工作的。顯然，我們有一家領先的銀行幫助我們，我們正在經歷我認為此時非常典型的銷售過程。

Have you narrowed the list down? Or can you provide -- is it -- are we talking about just sort of a handful of people doing significant due diligence at this point? Or is it still in the gathering of the sort of buyer stage?

你縮小名單了嗎？或者你能提供——是嗎——我們現在談論的只是少數人在做重要的盡職調查嗎？還是還在那種買家聚集的階段？

Yes. We think it's most appropriate not to disclose anything else at this point in time, as I mentioned in my introductory remarks. So I think we'll keep it to -- we're in the process, to your question, it's a pretty typical process led by an investment bank, and we'll update people as we have more information.

是的。正如我在開場白中提到的，我們認為此時不透露任何其他信息是最合適的。所以我想我們會堅持下去——我們正在處理你的問題，這是一個由投資銀行領導的非常典型的過程，我們會在獲得更多信息時更新人們的信息。

At this time, I show no further questions in queue. I'll turn the call back to Greg Diamond for any additional or closing remarks.

此時，我不會在隊列中顯示更多問題。我會把電話轉回給 Greg Diamond 以徵求任何補充意見或結束意見。

Thank you, Todd, and thanks to those of you listening to our call today. Please contact us directly if you have any additional questions. We also recommend that you visit our website at mbia.com for additional information about the company. Thank you for your interest in MBIA. Good day, and goodbye.

謝謝你，托德，也感謝今天聽我們電話的人。如果您有任何其他問題，請直接聯繫我們。我們還建議您訪問我們的網站 mbia.com，了解有關該公司的更多信息。感謝您對 MBIA 的關注。美好的一天，再見。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This concludes today's MBIA Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2022 Financial Results Conference Call. You may disconnect at this time and have a wonderful day.

謝謝你們，女士們，先生們。今天的 MBIA 第四季度和 2022 年全年財務業績電話會議到此結束。此時您可能會斷開連接並度過美好的一天。