拉斯維加斯金沙集團 (LVS) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands fourth-quarter 2025 earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，大家好，歡迎參加金沙集團2025年第四季財報電話會議。（操作說明）

It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at Sands. Sir, the floor is yours.

現在我很高興把發言權交給金沙集團投資者關係資深副總裁丹尼爾布里格斯先生。先生，請您發言。

Thank you. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO; Patrick Dumont, our President and Chief Operating Officer; Dr. Wilfred Wong, Executive Vice President, Sands China; and Grant Chum, CEO and President of Sands China and EVP of Asia operations.

謝謝。今天參加電話會議的有：董事長兼執行長羅伯‧戈德斯坦；總裁兼營運長派崔克‧杜蒙；金沙中國執行副總裁黃偉傑博士；以及金沙中國執行長兼總裁、亞洲營運執行副總裁格蘭特‧楚姆。

Today's conference call will contain forward-looking statements. We will be making those statements under the Safe Harbor provision of federal securities laws. The language on forward-looking statements included in our press release also applies to our comments made on the call. The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward-looking statements.

今天的電話會議將包含前瞻性陳述。我們將依據聯邦證券法中的「安全港」條款發表這些聲明。我們在新聞稿中對前瞻性陳述的陳述也適用於我們在電話會議上發表的評論。本公司的實際業績可能與這些前瞻性聲明中所反映的業績有重大差異。

In addition, we will discuss non-GAAP measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measures are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We will refer to that presentation during the call. Finally, for the Q&A session, we ask those with interest to please post one question and one follow-up, so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate.

此外，我們也將討論非GAAP指標。我們的新聞稿中包含了與最可比較的GAAP財務指標的調節表。我們已在網站上發布了盈利報告。我們將在通話中提及該簡報。最後，在問答環節，我們請有興趣的人發布一個問題和一個後續問題，以便我們能夠讓所有有興趣的人都有機會參與。

This presentation is being recorded.

本次演講正在錄製。

I'll now turn the call over to Rob.

現在我將把電話交給羅布。

Thank you, Dan, and good afternoon. Thank you for joining us. Marina Bay Sands delivered EBITDA of $806 million, simply the greatest quarter in the history of casino hotels. We see $2.9 billion of EBITDA this year. Mass gaming and slot win exceeded $951 million this quarter, which is up 118% in Q4 in 2019, up 27% in Q4 last year. Of course, we are delighted with the results, we look forward to more this year.

謝謝你，丹，下午好。感謝您的參與。濱海灣金沙酒店實現了 8.06 億美元的 EBITDA，這是賭場酒店歷史上最好的季度。我們預計今年的 EBITDA 為 29 億美元。本季大眾博弈和老虎機營收超過 9.51 億美元，比 2019 年第四季成長 118%，比去年第四季成長 27%。當然，我們對結果非常滿意，並期待今年會取得更大成就。

This is an extraordinary market we have built a product to maximize the opportunity. The question is how much further can we go in the next two years. There has never been a building to my knowledge that deliver these types of results.

這是一個非凡的市場，我們打造了一款產品來最大限度地掌握這個機會。問題是，未來兩年我們還能走多遠。據我所知，從來沒有哪棟建築能達到這種效果。

Macao delivered $608 million of EBITDA for the quarter, and we are disappointed with that EBITDA number. However, mass market revenue did exceed 25% this quarter of share, up 23.6% in the first quarter of 2025. Macao market is driven by the premium segment which is a highly competitive market. There may be a day when base mass recovers, and we will excel when that day comes, but until then, we will continue to focus on our ability to make the assets work harder to achieve $700 million per quarter. The team is in the right place, and we will deliver better results in 2026.

澳門本季實現 6.08 億美元的 EBITDA，我們對這個 EBITDA 數據感到失望。然而，本季大眾市場營收佔超過 25%，比 2025 年第一季成長 23.6%。澳門市場由高端市場驅動，而高端市場競爭非常激烈。或許有一天基礎規模會恢復，到那時我們將會表現出色，但在此之前，我們將繼續專注於提高資產利用率，以實現每季 7 億美元的目標。球隊位置正確，我們將在 2026 年取得更好的成績。

So let's hear it from Patrick.

那麼，讓我們聽聽派崔克怎麼說。

Thanks, Rob. Macao EBITDA was $608 million. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $26 million. When adjusted for higher-than-expected hold of the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for the Macao portfolio of properties would have been 28.9%, down 390 basis points compared to the fourth quarter of 2024.

謝謝你，羅伯。澳門 EBITDA 為 6.08 億美元。如果我們按預期繼續執行滾動計劃，我們的 EBITDA 將減少 2600 萬美元。如果考慮到滾動業務持有量高於預期，我們澳門物業組合的 EBITDA 利潤率為 28.9%，比 2024 年第四季下降 390 個基點。

We are focused on delivering revenue and cash flow growth across the portfolio. Margin at the Venetian was 32.3%, while margin at the Londoner was 28.8%. We expect growth in EBITDA as revenue to grow. We will use our scale and product advantages together with targeted incentives to better address every market segment. We see opportunity in every segment at every property in the portfolio.

我們致力於實現整個投資組合的收入和現金流成長。威尼斯人酒店的利潤率為 32.3%，而倫敦人酒店的利潤率為 28.8%。我們預計隨著營收成長，EBITDA也將成長。我們將利用我們的規模和產品優勢，結合有針對性的激勵措施，以更好地滿足每個細分市場的需求。我們看到投資組合中每個物業的每個細分市場都存在機會。

In Singapore, Marina Bay Sands EBITDA for the quarter was $806 million at a margin of 50.3%. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $45 million. The record financial results at MBS reflect the impact of high-quality investment in market-leading product, world-class service, and the growth in high-value tourism.

在新加坡，濱海灣金沙本季的 EBITDA 為 8.06 億美元，利潤率為 50.3%。如果我們按預期繼續執行滾動計劃，我們的 EBITDA 將減少 4500 萬美元。MBS 創紀錄的財務表現反映了對市場領先產品、世界一流服務以及高價值旅遊業成長的高品質投資的影響。

Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders. We repurchased $500 million of LVS stock during the quarter. We also paid our recurring quarterly dividend of $0.25 per share. We believe repurchases of LVS equity through our share repurchase program will be meaningfully accretive to the company and its shareholders over the long term.

接下來，我們將啟動向股東返還資本的計畫。本季我們回購了價值 5 億美元的 LVS 股票。我們還支付了每股 0.25 美元的季度股息。我們相信，透過我們的股票回購計畫回購LVS的股權，長期來看，將對公司及其股東產生顯著的增值作用。

During the fourth quarter, we purchased $66 million of SCL stock, increasing the company's ownership percentage of SCL to 74.8% as of December 31, 2025. We continue to see value in both names. We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's share repurchase program to increase returns to shareholders.

第四季度，我們購買了價值 6,600 萬美元的 SCL 股票，截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日，公司持有 SCL 的股份比例增至 74.8%。我們仍然認為這兩個名字都很有價值。我們期待繼續利用公司的股票回購計畫來增加股東回報。

Thanks again for joining the call today. Now let's take questions.

再次感謝您今天參加電話會議。現在我們來回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Dan Politzer, JPMorgan.

（操作員指令）Dan Politzer，摩根大通。

And Rob, congrats on the storied career at Las Vegas Sands. We'll definitely miss hearing your honest assessment of what's going on in the markets across the world. First, on Singapore -- yeah. Another, obviously, a real strong quarter here. I mean, the VIP rolling chip volume acceleration was notable.

羅布，恭喜你在拉斯維加斯金沙集團擁有如此輝煌的職業生涯。我們一定會非常想念您對全球市場現況的坦誠評價。首先，關於新加坡——是的。顯然，這又是一個非常強勁的季度。我的意思是，VIP滾動籌碼量的成長速度非常顯著。

You saw obviously an acceleration across the board on the gaming side. I mean, where -- what particularly is driving that? I mean, I know this is the third quarter we're seeing it, but maybe now you have a better pulse on what's going on and what's specifically driving that? And are there any additional programming elements or OpEx endeavors that you feel like you need to put in place to further sustain this going forward?

很明顯，遊戲領域整體都出現了加速成長。我的意思是，具體是什麼因素導致了這種情況？我的意思是，我知道這是第三季的情況，但也許現在你對正在發生的事情以及具體是什麼在推動這種情況有了更清晰的認識？為了進一步維持這一現狀，您是否覺得還需要採取任何額外的程式措施或營運支出方面的措施？

I think you're seeing, Dan, the property is extraordinary. The offerings are great, and we have a lot of fantastic customers in Asia. I don't think it's a different story. It's the same story. Just more and more people coming into that property when experiencing and coming away very happy.

丹，我想你已經看到了，這處房產非同凡響。我們的產品和服務都很棒，我們在亞洲有許多非常棒的客戶。我不認為情況有所不同。情況還是一樣。越來越多的人來體驗這處房產，離開時都非常滿意。

And the volumes across the border, extraordinary. As I referenced, the greatest building history of casino hotels made of any operating building. Nothing way different, just more of the same, more people showing up with, got lots of money to gamble, lots of appetite. We're very fortunate. It's a very strong customer base across the region.

而邊境那邊的數量，簡直驚人。正如我之前提到的，賭場酒店是所有營運建築中最具歷史意義的建築。沒什麼太大變化，只是情況依舊，更多的人帶著很多錢來賭博，胃口很大。我們非常幸運。它在整個地區擁有非常強大的客戶基礎。

So nothing really different now.

所以現在其實沒什麼不同。

Yeah, I just want to comment on the last part of your question. There's really nothing that we have to do from an OpEx side except to continue to improve our service models and our programs there. We're continuing to invest in Singapore. We continue to do some renovations. While the suites are done and the casino area is mostly done, I think we're going to continue to adjust our amenity set and continue to invest in our service there.

是的，我只想就你問題的最後一部分補充一點。從營運支出方面來說，我們真的沒有什麼需要做的，只需要繼續改進我們的服務模式和相關項目。我們將繼續在新加坡投資。我們仍在進行一些翻修工作。雖然套房已經完工，賭場區域也基本上完工，但我認為我們將繼續調整配套設施，並繼續增加對那裡的服務投入。

But from our standpoint, I think we are where we need to be, but we'll continue to look to improve as we can.

但從我們的角度來看，我認為我們已經達到了應有的水平，但我們會繼續努力，爭取做得更好。

Got it. And then just pivoting to Macao as we try to unpack the numbers. On a hold-adjusted basis, EBITDA margin is down quarter over quarter. I mean, how much of this is just the OpEx environment, if there's any other one-offs in the quarter to highlight? I mean, given that we're a few quarters in now to the promotional strategy that you undertook.

知道了。然後，我們轉而關注澳門，試著解讀這些數據。經調整後，EBITDA 利潤率季減。我的意思是，這其中有多少只是營運支出環境造成的？本季還有其他需要重點關注的一次性支出嗎？我的意思是，考慮到你們採取的促銷策略現在已經實施了幾個季度了。

I mean, where do you feel like it's not really resonating? What strategy do you have in place that you feel like you can start to gain traction there?

我的意思是，你覺得它在哪些方面沒有真正引起共鳴？你制定了什麼策略，感覺可以開始在那裡取得進展？

Yeah. Thanks, Dan, for the question. Yeah, first of all, I think the marketing strategies, leveraging the Londoner Grand ramp-up since May, I think we're moving in the right direction in terms of customer growth, in terms of revenue growth across all the segments. But obviously, Macao right now is driven by the premium segments, both in rolling and non-rolling. And that's where we are getting most of our growth.

是的。謝謝你的提問，丹。首先，我認為自 5 月以來，我們利用倫敦人號豪華轎車的營運提升策略，在客戶成長和所有細分市場的收入成長方面，都朝著正確的方向發展。但很顯然，澳門目前的市場是由高端市場驅動的，無論是滾動式還是非滾動式市場。而這正是我們成長的主要來源。

So in terms of the sequential decline in operating margin, firstly, we have higher reinvestment. But on a sequential basis, that's mostly driven by the segment mix change. So we have more rolling business as a proportion of our total gaming. And within non-rolling is dominated by the super high end on the premium mass. So that's the first factor.

因此，就營業利潤率的環比下降而言，首先，我們有更高的再投資。但從順序來看，這主要是由細分市場組合的變化所驅動的。因此，我們的滾動業務佔總遊戲業務的比例更高。而在非滾動領域，則以超高階優質產品為主。這是第一個因素。

Secondly, OpEx was higher, yes. We invested more on event costs and we had higher payroll as we looked primarily as a result of us increasing our operating table hour capacity. And lastly, against prior quarter but also against prior year, the non-rolling home percentage was lower by about 140 basis points. So that obviously impacts ourselves as well.

其次，營運成本確實更高了。由於我們增加了餐桌營運時間，因此我們在活動成本上投入了更多資金，薪資支出也更高。最後，與上一季以及去年同期相比，非滾動住房百分比下降了約 140 個基點。所以這顯然也會對我們自身產生影響。

Lizzie Dove, Goldman Sachs.

莉齊·多芙，高盛集團。

And I'll echo my congrats to Rob. You'll definitely be missed. Sticking with Macao, I mean, you've talked in the past about the path long term to getting back to that, somewhere in that $2.7 billion, $2.8 billion kind of range for EBITDA. Curious, kind of tracking on an annualized basis, a little below that right now. How do you think about the pacing to get back there and kind of timeline and what needs to happen?

我也要向羅布表示祝賀。你一定會被人想念的。說到澳門，我的意思是，你過去曾談到過，從長遠來看，要恢復到 EBITDA 達到 27 億美元、28 億美元左右的水平，需要走怎樣的路。挺有趣的，按年計算，目前略低於這個數字。您認為恢復到之前的狀態需要怎樣的節奏、時間表以及需要做些什麼？

So I think, first off, I think we've made a lot of changes over the last couple of quarters, both on our approach to the customer, how we think about service levels we've invested in personnel. We've had additional table hours, which you heard Grant just mentioned. I think we're really focused on both growing revenue and EBITDA. And so I think we've made some great progress this quarter.

所以，首先，我認為在過去的幾個季度裡，我們做出了很多改變，包括我們對待客戶的方式、我們對服務水準的思考方式，以及我們對人員的投入。我們增加了營業時間，正如格蘭特剛才提到的那樣。我認為我們真正關注的是營收成長和 EBITDA 成長。所以我認為我們本季取得了很大的進展。

If you look at some of our top-line numbers, we've definitely grown, and we've had success in both rolling and non-rolling at slots as well when you look at year-over-year comps. I think for us, we're sort of working through some of the changes that we've made. And I think the trajectory is heading in the right direction. And I think we've made a lot of important changes. And I think we're in a position to do better over time.

從我們的一些主要數據來看，我們肯定取得了成長，而且從同比數據來看，我們在老虎機的滾動和非滾動方面都取得了成功。我認為對我們來說，我們正在逐步適應我們所做的一些改變。我認為目前的趨勢是正確的。我認為我們已經做出了很多重要的改變。我認為隨著時間的推移，我們有能力做得更好。

And while this quarter may not have produced the results that we want on an EBITDA basis, we see growth, we see better market positioning. We see revenue share growth, but we're heading in the right direction.

雖然本季 EBITDA 指標可能沒有達到我們預期，但我們看到了成長，也看到了更好的市場地位。我們看到收入份額有所成長，但我們正朝著正確的方向前進。

Got it. Makes sense. And then you've had so much success in Singapore where side bets and kind of just making gambling more diversified over there. I know you've talked about kind of introducing more of that in Macao. Can you maybe share an update of how far you are in terms of rolling that out in Macao, anything that's kind of different structurally or with the customer base that maybe makes it more or less appealing? And how we should kind of think about structural hold there long term?

知道了。有道理。然後，你們在新加坡取得了巨大的成功，那裡的邊注和各種形式的賭博活動更加多元化。我知道您曾談到要在澳門引入更多這樣的模式。可否分享您在澳門推廣這項服務的最新進展？在結構或客戶群方面是否有任何不同之處，使其更具吸引力或吸引力降低？那我們該如何看待那裡的長期結構性支撐呢？

I think in Macao, we have been continuously rolling out additional wager options on the baccarat layouts. And we've been having progressively more success in attracting volume against those side wagers. The level of participation in the side wagers is not as high as Singapore, but it is on an increasing trend. And we'll continue to innovate in terms of offering more fun and interesting side wager options in the traditional game of baccarat and also other games as well in terms of additional wager options.

我認為在澳門，我們一直在百家樂賭桌上不斷推出新的投注選項。而且，我們在吸引更多資金參與這些額外投注方面也取得了越來越大的成功。雖然參與場外賭注的人數不如新加坡那麼多，但呈現上升趨勢。我們將繼續創新，在傳統的百家樂遊戲以及其他遊戲中提供更多有趣的附加投注選項。

So that will continue. But we are seeing a rising interest in these side wagers, but it's just not as high a level as what you see in Marina Bay Sands.

所以這種情況還會持續下去。但我們看到人們對這些場外投注的興趣正在上升，只是水平還沒有達到濱海灣金沙賭場那麼高。

Trey Bowers, Wells Fargo.

Trey Bowers，富國銀行。

Great to catch up. Could you guys just talk to what you're seeing in the promotional environment in Macao? Has that changed dramatically in the near term? And what's the expectation as we make our way through '26?

很高興能和你敘舊。你們能不能談談在澳門的宣傳環境中看到了什麼？短期內情況是否發生了顯著變化？那麼，在邁入 2026 年之際，我們又將面臨怎樣的挑戰呢？

So I think the market definitely has become more promotional over time. You heard Grant mention that it's much more premium-focused, and that goes hand-in-hand with that segment. That being said, we're being very competitive. And I think we're seeing the results related to our positioning as we look to be more promotional and as we add the right service levels to ensure that we can take care of these customers in a way that allows them to keep coming back.

所以我認為，隨著時間的推移，市場肯定變得更加重視促銷了。你聽格蘭特說過，它更注重高端市場，這與該細分市場的情況相符。也就是說，我們極具競爭力。我認為，隨著我們加強促銷力度，並增加適當的服務水平，以確保我們能夠以一種讓客戶不斷回頭的方式來照顧這些客戶，我們正在看到與我們的定位相關的成果。

Grant, I don't know if there's anything you want to add?

格蘭特，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Yeah. I think the promotional environment remains intense. And especially in the premium segments, which is really driving the growth in the market. That said, I think we are at a more stable level now in the current quarter, and we can see that progressively in the fourth quarter. But of course, things can change anytime as competitive dynamics change.

是的。我認為促銷環境依然非常激烈。尤其是在高端市場，這才是真正推動市場成長的動力。也就是說，我認為我們目前處於一個更穩定的水平，而且我們可以在第四季度逐步看到這種趨勢。當然，隨著競爭格局的變化，情況隨時都可能改變。

But at this point in time, I think we are stabilizing at the current levels, at least for our portfolio. And actually, we're hoping to find some headroom to optimize on the reinvestment front into 2026.

但就目前而言，我認為至少就我們的投資組合而言，我們正在趨於穩定在當前水準。事實上，我們希望在 2026 年找到一些空間，以優化再投資方面。

Great. Then just back to MBS, given the exit rate of where you were in Q4, if we apply seasonal levels of kind of sequential growth to the market, we come up with some pretty big numbers on the top and bottom line in the market. Is there anything to call out that you would just put out there as a put or a take against that as we kind of build our models for the next 12 months?

偉大的。然後回到 MBS，考慮到您在第四季度的退出率，如果我們對市場應用季節性水平的連續增長，我們會得出市場營收和利潤都相當可觀的數字。當我們建立未來 12 個月的模型時，您認為有什麼需要特別指出的，可以作為對沖或反對意見嗎？

I don't think it's seasonal. I think this is just a building that defines the seasonality of most markets. I think it's more about the right customers showing up, events, et cetera. I don't think that people are dealing with that driven by the seasonality of the market. I think it's just a very, very -- it's the best product in the market, obviously, in one of the best parts of the world.

我不認為這是季節性的。我認為這只是一座體現大多數市場季節性特徵的建築。我認為更重要的是吸引合適的顧客、舉辦活動等等。我不認為人們會因為市場季節性波動而做出這樣的反應。我認為它非常非常——顯然，它是市場上最好的產品，而且來自世界上最好的地區之一。

People want to be there if you get the right people to show up. I think it's December, July, it doesn't matter as much as used to in places like Macao or Las Vegas. It's less seasonally driven, I think, and more driven by the building itself in a strong market. So I don't think seasonality figures in. I wouldn't model it based on that.

只要請到對的人，人們就願意來。我覺得現在是12月還是7月，不像以前在澳門或拉斯維加斯那樣，年份對年份的影響那麼大了。我認為，這較少受季節性因素影響，更多是由強勁市場中的建築本身所驅動。所以我覺得季節性因素無關緊要。我不會以此為模型。

Robin Farley, UBS.

羅賓法利，瑞銀集團。

Rob, I just want to add my congratulations and best wishes. I don't even want to say how long I've known you, but you will be missed.

羅布，我謹向你表示祝賀和最美好的祝愿。我甚至不想說我認識你多久了，但我會想念你的。

Don't say it.

別說。

That will be between us. So I guess one question is, any early signs of kind of Chinese New Year levels for demand in Macao, anything you're seeing at this point?

這是我們之間的秘密。所以我想問的問題是，澳門的需求是否已經出現類似春節期間的水平？您目前觀察到什麼跡象嗎？

I do want to point out that we're going to stay consistent. We're not really going to talk about current quarter. But I will tell you that if you look at the growth in the Macao market overall, it's been very encouraging. So if you look at liquidity in the market, you look at the type of players that are coming in, the value of those patrons, it is premium focused, but it's very encouraging. And I think it's good for the market overall and good for the trajectory of our business and the market.

我想指出的是，我們將保持一致性。我們今天不打算討論本季的情況。但我可以告訴你，如果你縱觀澳門市場的整體成長情況，你會發現它非常令人鼓舞。所以，如果你觀察市場的流動性，觀察進入市場的玩家類型，以及這些玩家的價值，你會發現它以高端用戶為主，但這非常令人鼓舞。我認為這對整個市場來說是好事，對我們公司和市場的未來發展軌跡也是好事。

Okay. Great. And then maybe just a follow-up on Singapore. And Rob, I hear your comments about defining seasonality and kind of -- it seems like every quarter has done better than one would have expected. But maybe so that expectation don't get to -- I mean, is there anything you would say that is like a gating issue or sort of a natural point at which maybe it wouldn't even be reasonable to think that the building could do more early?

好的。偉大的。然後或許可以跟進一下新加坡的情況。羅布，我聽到了你關於定義季節性的評論，而且——似乎每個季度的表現都比預期的要好。但也許這樣就不會有這樣的期望——我的意思是，您認為是否存在某種關卡問題或自然節點，以至於認為該建築在早期可以做得更多是不合理的？

Where do you see (multiple speakers)

你在哪裡看到（多位發言者）

We've proved to be very bad in forecasting this. I think last year, I said $2.5 billion is our goal, and people kind of thought that was very ambitious. It proved to be very unambitious. So I think I have a real hard time engaging it because what you now have is this plethora of facts on our favor. We have a really great place to visit in Singapore, a wonderful government supporting us. We have a building that a different level was we opened it many years ago, service levels, et cetera, and suite product.

事實證明，我們在這方面的預測非常糟糕。我記得去年我說過我們的目標是 25 億美元，當時大家都覺得這個目標非常雄心勃勃。事實證明，它非常缺乏雄心壯志。所以我覺得我很難參與討論，因為現在我們已經掌握了大量對我們有利的事實。新加坡是一個非常棒的旅遊勝地，政府也給予我們大力支持。我們有一棟大樓，它與我們多年前開業時所在的樓層不同，服務水平等等，以及套房產品。

It's just the best thing in that region, I think, and people just keep coming to it, and we are pleasantly surprised at the amount of customers and the diversity of the geographic locations they come from. It's got diversity, it's got new customers shift all the time. And any time we think, well, we lost these 4 customers for a reason, 12 more show up. And I think that's the strength of Macao -- Singapore. And I don't think we should pretend to have any great handicapping skills.

我認為它是該地區最好的地方，人們絡繹不絕地前來，我們對顧客的數量以及他們來自的地理位置的多樣性感到驚訝。它具有多樣性，而且客戶群一直在不斷變化。每當我們以為「我們失去這 4 位客戶是有原因的」時，就會有 12 位新客戶出現。我認為這就是澳門——新加坡的優勢所在。而且我認為我們不應該假裝自己擁有高超的賽馬預測技巧。

Can it go to $3.2 billion, $3.3 billion, $3.4 billion? I just don't know. I mean, we've had three successive quarters that keep getting better and better. It feels like it's sustainable. It feels great.

能達到32億美元、33億美元、34億美元嗎？我真的不知道。我的意思是，我們已經連續三個季度業績越來越好。感覺像是可持續的。感覺很棒。

But I think it'll be bullish about to forecast the future and kind of go to $3.1 billion or $3.2 billion, does it go back at $2.7 billion, $2.8 billion. I don't know. But I think we've now passed the point of disbelief, realize this is a real building that has real potential to keep growing if the economy stays strong and we continue to deliver a great quality product. I have a lot of belief in its future. I don't think it's going to fall apart at all.

但我認為，如果預測未來走勢樂觀，股價可能會達到 31 億美元或 32 億美元，然後回落到 27 億美元或 28 億美元。我不知道。但我認為我們現在不再懷疑，而是意識到這是一座真正的建築，如果經濟保持強勁，我們繼續提供高品質的產品，它就有巨大的發展潛力。我對其未來充滿信心。我覺得它根本不會崩潰。

And how much stronger does it get? I don't want to forecast. I can't -- I just can't know. I don't know how to figure out -- more people keep showing up from all over Asia wanting to gamble at Marina Bay Sands. The answer has been thus far this year, absolutely, yes.

它還能增強到什麼程度？我不想做預測。我無法——我真的無法知道。我不知道該如何解釋——越來越多的人從亞洲各地湧來，想在濱海灣金沙賭場賭博。今年到目前為止，答案絕對是肯定的。

Brandt Montour, Barclays.

Brandt Montour，巴克萊銀行。

The first one is on Macao. The rolling chip volume number is obviously very strong. VIP isn't something that you historically focused on or at least it wasn't a huge part of your mix. But given mix did weigh on the quarter, EBITDA and margins and flow through, the question would be, do you -- has there been any shift in strategy in terms of your relative focus on the VIP part of the business? And is that something we should consider more thoughtfully going forward?

第一個在澳門。滾動晶片銷量明顯非常強勁。VIP客戶並不是你過去關注的重點，或至少它不是你業務組合中的主要部分。但考慮到產品組合對本季的 EBITDA、利潤率和流通效率造成了影響，問題是，您在 VIP 業務方面的相對關注度是否有所改變？這是否是我們今後應該更認真考慮的問題？

Brandt, thanks for the question. I think first of all, we have said we are committed strategically to grow in every single segment in Macao that's available to us. And secondly, the growth of the market is currently primarily driven by the premium segments, and that applies both to the rolling segment and the nonrolling.

布蘭特，謝謝你的提問。首先，我認為我們已經說過，我們將在策略上致力於在澳門每一個我們可以涉足的領域實現成長。其次，目前市場成長主要由高端市場驅動，這既適用於滾動市場，也適用於非滾動市場。

So this quarter, yes, you can see that we've had a pretty significant, terrific increase in our rolling volumes up 60% against prior year, and we're outgrowing a fast-growing market. And I think that reflects a few strategies that we put in place. Number one, we've adjusted some of our commercial programs in that segment. Number two, we've been very successful in attracting the foreign play out of the rest of the Asian markets in the rolling segment, and that's given us a good boost in the volumes.

所以，本季度，是的，你可以看到我們的滾動銷量有了相當大的、驚人的增長，比上年同期增長了 60%，而且我們正在快速增長的市場中實現超額增長。我認為這反映了我們採取的一些策略。第一，我們已經調整了該領域的一些商業節目。第二，我們在滾動交易領域非常成功地吸引了亞洲其他市場的外國投資者，這極大地促進了我們的交易量。

And number three, partly reflecting the strong market in that super high-end segment. We've also been successful in that super VIP rolling segment this quarter as well. So all of these factors contributed to the very strong rolling segment growth.

第三，部分原因在於超高端市場的強勁表現。本季我們在超級VIP滾動銷售領域也取得了成功。因此，所有這些因素都促成了滾動細分市場的強勁成長。

And yes, it's much lower margin than the other segments, but it's still a profitable segment on an absolute gross dollars basis. And of course, our primary focus right now is to grow EBITDA. And of course, if we take advantage of where the market is growing, the rolling segment is definitely a segment that we'll be concentrating on to take advantage of the market growth.

沒錯，它的利潤率遠低於其他業務板塊，但從絕對毛利來看，它仍然是一個有利可圖的業務板塊。當然，我們目前的首要任務是提高 EBITDA。當然，如果我們能抓住市場成長的機遇，滾動細分市場絕對是我們將重點關注的細分市場，以充分利用市場成長。

And the second question would be on Macao and Singapore. The -- there are some concerns out there that World Cup could have some level of impact, folks staying home to watch the games and not traveling as much during that tournament. When you guys look back at your historical performance in prior World Cups, do you see anything that would suggest traffic or the higher end not coming during that term for either Macao or Singapore?

第二個問題是關於澳門和新加坡的。有人擔心世界盃可能會產生一定影響，因為人們會待在家裡看比賽，在比賽期間減少出行。回顧澳門或新加坡在以往世界盃上的歷史表現，你們是否發現任何跡象表明，在這次世界盃期間，澳門或新加坡的客流量或高端市場不會出現？

I don't believe it matters at all. You watch a telephone, they can -- I don't think it matters at all. I really -- that's been overblown in the past and overrated. There was a time (technical difficulty) World Cup changed the world for 30 minutes. I just don't think in size of our business and the scale, it matters all that much.

我覺得根本不重要。你盯著電話，他們就能──我覺得這根本無關緊要。我真的覺得──過去這件事被誇大了，被過分了。曾幾何時（因技術故障），世界盃改變了世界30分鐘。我認為就我們公司的規模而言，這並不那麼重要。

You guys feel differently, but I think it's -- I wouldn't -- it's not critical either way.

你們的看法可能不同，但我認為這——我不會——無論如何都不是關鍵問題。

George Choi, Citigroup.

喬治‧崔，花旗集團。

And congratulations, Rob, for your criteria. Firstly, on Marina Bay Sands. If my math is right, it looks like MBS generated enough master yard to trigger the higher mass gaming tax rate. Can you confirm if my math is right? And is that the reason why we see a slight sequential decline in EBITDA margin given the reported GGR?

羅布，恭喜你，你的評判標準很正確。首先，在濱海灣金沙酒店。如果我沒算錯的話，MBS 似乎產生了足夠的巨額利潤，足以觸發更高的博彩稅率。你能幫我確認一下我的計算是否正確嗎？鑑於已公佈的GGR，這是否是我們看到EBITDA利潤率環比略有下降的原因？

George, you're very good. I have to hand it to you. We hit the higher tax rate in July. And in the fourth quarter, there was about $44 million of impact.

喬治，你很棒。我不得不佩服你。7月我們開始實施更高的稅率。第四季度，影響金額約 4,400 萬美元。

Okay. That's good. And encouraging. And secondly, given the CapEx schedule that you guys have for the next few years on Marina Bay Sands, are you guys interested in any other investment opportunities perhaps in Japan?

好的。那挺好的。而且令人鼓舞。其次，鑑於你們未來幾年在濱海灣金沙的資本支出計劃，你們是否對在日本的其他投資機會感興趣？

Sorry, are you asking about Marina Bay Sands or Japan?

不好意思，您問的是濱海灣金沙酒店還是日本？

I'm just thinking, obviously, you guys have -- just kind of spent a lot of money on Marina Bay Sands. With that in mind, would you be interested in any other opportunities around the region?

我只是在想，很明顯，你們在濱海灣金沙酒店花了很多錢。考慮到這一點，您是否對該地區的其他機會感興趣？

Yeah. I think we're constantly looking at new development opportunities in markets where we think we can do what we do well. And so if Japan were ever to present an investment opportunity that works for us, we'd consider it. But right now, we're really focused on investing on our existing properties, building IR2. We're very excited about that opportunity.

是的。我認為我們一直在尋找新的發展機會，在那些我們認為能夠發揮自身優勢的市場中尋找發展機會。因此，如果日本將來出現適合我們的投資機會，我們會考慮的。但目前，我們真正專注於投資我們現有的物業，建造 IR2。我們對此機會感到非常興奮。

That's going to be a step function of growth, we hope. And so you can see the impact that we've had in our investment programs in Marina Bay Sands and the change we have there, and we feel like we're on our way in Macao. So we're very focused on the assets that we have. And if something comes up, we're definitely interested.

我們希望這將是一個階躍式增長。因此，您可以看到我們在濱海灣金沙的投資項目所帶來的影響和改變，我們感覺我們在澳門也走上了正軌。所以我們非常注重我們現有的資產。如果有什麼合適的機會，我們肯定會很感興趣。

Shaun Kelley, Bank of America.

肖恩凱利，美國銀行。

Rob, it's been a privilege to work with you for nearly 20 years, which is hard to believe, and congratulations just on everything you've done for the industry. You'll be missed.

羅布，能與你共事近 20 年是我的榮幸，這真是難以置信，也祝賀你為這個行業所做的一切。我們會想念你的。

Maybe just kind of pivoting or kind of one directly for Grant, specifically on Macao. Grant, just kind of wondering as some of the initiatives you've worked on, I think we think about some specific things going back six to nine months ago like adjusting cash comp mix and maybe some more direct cash player rebates in the market, which peers were already doing. Are all those things kind of where you want them to be right now? And have they been stable for a little while? Or are you still tweaking those things at the edges and finding what the right customer balance is for the mix that you're seeing in the market today?

或許可以稍微調整一下方向，或是直接針對 Grant，特別是澳門方面。格蘭特，我只是想問一下，在你參與的一些舉措中，我認為我們回顧六到九個月前的一些具體事項，例如調整現金薪酬組合，以及在市場上提供更多直接現金返利，而同行們已經在這樣做了。現在這些東西基本上都符合你的預期了嗎？它們穩定運作一段時間了嗎？或者，您仍在對這些細節進行微調，以找到適合當前市場組合的最佳客戶平衡點？

Yeah. Thanks, Shaun, for the question. I think we've been heading in the right direction for some time. And I think we are happy with where we are. You're right, there's been a number of initiatives that we've set out to implement since six months ago.

是的。謝謝肖恩的提問。我認為我們一直朝著正確的方向前進。我認為我們對現狀很滿意。你說得對，從六個月前開始，我們已經著手實施多項措施。

I think the sales and marketing programs that were put in place, the product launch that we had in the ground, and also some of the adjustments that we made in the rolling segment, those are all feeding through to a higher revenue capture and higher market share. The reinvestment environment, as I described earlier, it's still intense. And also, it's subject to month-by-month change. But at this moment, seeing what we saw in Q4, I think we're reaching a level where, yes, I think there is some stability in terms of the way we see our promotional intensity. And we actually hope to be able to optimize some of that across the different segments into 2026.

我認為，我們實施的銷售和行銷計劃、我們推出的產品，以及我們在滾動部門所做的一些調整，所有這些都正在轉化為更高的收入和更高的市場份額。正如我之前所描述的，再投資環境依然十分激烈。而且，它還會每月發生變化。但就目前而言，從第四季度的情況來看，我認為我們已經達到了一個水平，是的，我認為我們在促銷力度方面已經趨於穩定。我們真心希望能夠在 2026 年之前，在各個細分市場中優化其中的一些面向。

So 2026, I think, is going to be a year where we sustain our revenue growth against the market and then hopefully convert more of that into EBITDA.

所以我認為，2026 年我們將維持營收成長，超越市場平均水平，然後希望能夠將更多營收轉化為 EBITDA。

Great. And maybe just as my follow-up, kind of on the operating expense side of the equation. Could you just talk a little bit about both kind of when traditionally you see some of those annual escalators or market-wide increases you'd see particularly on the labor cost front. Are those primarily in 4Q? Or do they kind of come in more in 1Q? I'm not sure of the timing.

偉大的。最後，我想補充一點，關於營運費用的問題。您能否稍微談談這兩種情況，即傳統上您會看到的年度價格上漲或市場整體上漲，尤其是在勞動成本方面。這些主要集中在第四季嗎？或者說，它們更多地出現在第一季？我不太確定具體時間。

And then specifically for the 4Q, did you -- was there any direct impact or a tangible impact from the NBA activities in the market? We know that was probably a big success for Macao broadly, but just wondering if whether it's marketing or operating expenses attached to that could have had an impact on margins?

那麼具體到第四季度，NBA 的活動是否對市場產生了任何直接或實際的影響？我們知道這對澳門整體而言可能是一個很大的成功，但只是想知道相關的行銷或營運費用是否會對利潤率產生影響？

Yeah. Sure, I referenced that we have higher event costs for fourth quarter, and NBA was the biggest event that we conducted both across the quarter and actually ever in the history of the company. And it was, as you say, tremendously successful. I think the brand projection, I think the stakeholder engagement, the way we're able to bring in new business partners through the NBA China Games Week. And of course, the entertainment we provided to our customers and community stakeholders, I think all of those things, we are absolutely delighted by.

是的。當然，我提到我們第四季的活動成本較高，而NBA是我們本季以及公司史上舉辦的最大型活動。正如你所說，它取得了巨大的成功。我認為品牌推廣、利害關係人參與以及我們透過 NBA 中國賽週引入新商業夥伴的方式都至關重要。當然，我們為客戶和社區利益相關者提供的娛樂活動，我認為所有這些都讓我們感到非常滿意。

And of course, it has a cost impact. But we are very happy that we are continuing with this event in a multiyear partnership with the NBA, and we look forward to doing the event even better in 2026.

當然，這也會帶來成本影響。但我們很高興能夠與 NBA 繼續開展這項賽事，並期待在 2026 年將這項賽事辦得更好。

In terms of the OpEx question, your first point, I think, refers to just general wage inflation, if I'm right, and understand your question. Generally, that those wage adjustments occur in March for us and will occur again in 2026 in March with some wage inflation that we put in place for our frontline staff.

關於營運支出問題，我認為你的第一點指的是普遍的薪資上漲，如果我理解正確的話。一般來說，我們的薪資調整會在 3 月進行，2026 年 3 月還會再次進行，屆時我們將為第一線員工實施一些薪資通膨措施。

Stephen Grambling, Morgan Stanley.

史蒂芬‧格林布林，摩根士丹利。

Rob, thanks for all the insights and stories. Given the reinvestment that you all are just mentioning through 2026 in Macao, how does this influence any strategy around renovations or reinvestment into other properties?

羅伯，感謝你分享的所有見解和故事。鑑於你們剛才提到的到 2026 年澳門的再投資計劃，這將如何影響其他物業的翻新或再投資策略？

So I think we're very focused on upgrading our property portfolio, particularly at the high end. We've had some very strong success in the Londoner. Londoner Grand opened earlier in the year, and we're already seeing very strong adoption and strong productivity out of the higher-end suite that we've created there. And of course, we have the Londoner Suites. We have the Londoner Court, which is one of our core luxury products.

所以我認為我們非常注重提升我們的房地產投資組合，尤其是在高端領域。我們在倫敦人號上取得了非常大的成功。Londoner Grand酒店於今年稍早開業，我們已經看到我們在那裡打造的高端套房獲得了非常強勁的迴響和很高的生產力。當然，我們還有倫敦套房。我們擁有倫敦人庭院酒店，這是我們的核心奢侈品之一。

And so as we look around our asset base, we think we have the opportunity to add more amenities, to add better room product and better service over time. So this is part of our ongoing investment cycle in Macao and something that you'll see us do over the coming quarters.

因此，當我們審視我們的資產基礎時，我們認為我們有機會隨著時間的推移增加更多便利設施，提供更好的客房產品和更好的服務。所以這是我們在澳門持續投資週期的一部分，也是你們將在未來幾季看到我們採取的行動。

And then maybe a quick follow-up on capital allocation. You mentioned spiking buyback and buying the stock in Hong Kong as well as the US, does this eventually shift back to dividends as we get through this reinvestment cycle? Or what -- is this more of a permanent kind of shift towards buyback relative to dividend in, I would say, both entities?

然後或許可以快速跟進一下資本配置問題。您提到大幅增加股票回購，並在香港和美國都購買了股票，隨著我們度過這個再投資週期，最終是否會轉為分紅？或者說——這是否意味著，對於這兩個實體而言，回購相對於分紅而言是一種更永久性的轉變？

I think if you look at the SCL level, just given the market dynamics and I think preferences at the Board level for SCL, hopefully, over time, you'll see the Board there approve dividend increases. And I think that's been the goal. As cash flows continue to grow, the dividend there would increase over time. And we think that's very beneficial to shareholders, including Las Vegas Sands. I think at the Las Vegas Sands level, you see us be very consistent in the way that we repurchased shares.

我認為，如果你從 SCL 的角度來看，考慮到市場動態以及 SCL 董事會的偏好，希望隨著時間的推移，你會看到董事會批准提高股息。我認為這正是我們的目標。隨著現金流持續成長，股利也會隨之增加。我們認為這對股東，包括拉斯維加斯金沙集團，都非常有利。我認為在拉斯維加斯金沙集團層面，我們回購股票的方式非常一致。

We've done over the last couple of years. I think we'd like to have that continue. We do think the dividend is fundamental to return to capital story. We do look at payout ratios and consider them and look at the flexibility that our cash flows provide to us, given that we do like the idea of investing in new growth opportunities. And we think that the flexibility as well as the accretion from share repurchases is kind of a balance that we like.

過去幾年我們一直都在這樣做。我認為我們希望這種情況能夠持續下去。我們認為分紅對於資本回歸的故事至關重要。我們會關注派息率，並考慮現金流能為我們帶來的彈性，因為我們確實喜歡投資新的成長機會。我們認為，股票回購帶來的彈性和收益成長是我們喜歡的平衡。

And so you should see us heading forward in this general direction. And we've been pretty aggressive in the way that we buy back shares previously, and we're going to be positioned to do well with our future cash flows to do the same. So we're excited about it.

所以，你們應該會看到我們朝著這個大致方向前進。我們之前在股票回購方面一直非常積極，而且我們未來的現金流也足以支撐我們繼續這樣做。所以我們對此感到很興奮。

David Katz, Jefferies.

David Katz，傑富瑞集團。

Good afternoon, everybody. Rob, thanks for everything, all the best. I wanted to just focus on Singapore for a minute. There has been a considerable amount of CapEx put in there in a variety of different places. I wanted to just go a little deeper and figure out and understand.

大家下午好。羅布，謝謝你所做的一切，祝你一切順利。我想暫時只關註一下新加坡。那裡已經投入了相當多的資本支出，用於各種不同的項目。我只是想更深入地了解一下，弄清楚真相。

Are all of the capital investments that we've been talked about, I know the rooms, gaming floor restaurants, amenities, maybe lobby, are those all completed and activated at this point? And just thinking about how the property ramps from here continues to strength.

我們之前討論過的所有資本投資，我知道包括客房、遊戲區、餐廳、配套設施，可能還有大堂，這些目前都已經完工並投入使用了嗎？想想看，這棟房產的價格會如何繼續走強。

So they're not all done. So we still have work to do in other parts of the property; gaming floor, yes; rooms, yes. Some public spaces, some mall lobby, and SkyParks still have work to be done. So it's not fully completed. And so our goal is to continue to improve the experiences that we offer.

所以它們還沒有全部完成。所以，我們還有其他部分需要改進；遊戲區需要改進；客房也需要改進。部分公共空間、部分商場大廳和空中花園仍需進行一些施工。所以它還沒有完全完成。因此，我們的目標是不斷改進我們所提供的體驗。

The vast majority are done. And so you see the results, and you see how our patrons enjoy the changes that we've made. But over time, we're going to look to improve the property and continue to invest in it to continue to have it being the best in the world. That's our goal.

絕大多數工作已經完成。所以你看到了結果，也看到了我們的顧客是如何享受我們所做的改變的。但隨著時間的推移，我們將努力改善該物業，並持續投資，使其保持世界一流水平。這就是我們的目標。

Understood. And if I may, as my follow-up, specifically with respect to the lobby, should we be contemplating any disruption as we go through, say, the next couple of years whenever you get to that?

明白了。如果可以的話，我想就遊說方面提出一個後續問題，我們是否應該考慮在接下來的幾年採取任何干擾措施？

No.

不。

Joe Stauff, SIG.

Joe Stauff，SIG。

Grant, I just wanted to follow up on some of your comments about that you've -- in Macao, you think you've reached a level of stability regarding investment and the right promo mix. Is that -- could you -- just curious as to why you think that? Is that just a function of you're seeing some of the right KPIs inflecting because of that? Is it because you don't necessarily see a competitive response relative to your higher investment? I was wondering if you could broaden out that answer a little bit more.

格蘭特，我只是想就你之前關於澳門的一些評論做個後續說明——你認為你在投資和合適的促銷組合方面已經達到了一定的穩定水平。你是——或者說——只是好奇你為什麼這麼想？這只是因為你看到一些關鍵績效指標因此而改變嗎？是因為你覺得投入越多，獲得的競爭性報酬就越少嗎？我想請您再詳細解釋一下這個答案。

No, we can only observe from what we see in the recent months. And I think my comment simply attests to the fact that during the fourth quarter, as we progressed, we see some stabilization in the degree of promotional incentives that we're having to escalate to. I think part of it is we caught up with the market since May, and that was a progressive process. And I think in the fourth quarter, we start seeing, I think, on a stable basis, a higher level of market share and higher level of patronage across all the segments, in particular, in the segments where the market is growing the fastest, which is in the premium segments.

不，我們只能根據近幾個月來的情況進行觀察。我認為我的評論恰恰證明了這樣一個事實：在第四季度，隨著我們工作的推進，我們看到促銷激勵措施的力度有所穩定，我們也需要加強。我認為部分原因是自五月以來我們逐漸趕上了市場，這是一個循序漸進的過程。我認為在第四季度，我們將開始看到，在所有細分市場，特別是市場成長最快的細分市場（即高端細分市場），市場份額和客戶忠誠度將穩步提高。

And then we also see that dynamic apply to the rolling segment as well. So I think the evidence from the fourth quarter is -- I think, offers good comfort. However, the market changes day to day, minute by minute, so we will have to observe how competitive dynamics evolve in 2026. And one of the key drivers of how dynamics may change is obviously the level of market revenue growth, which is always tough to forecast. So I hope that gives you more color or explanation for my previous comment.

然後我們也看到，這種動態也適用於滾動段。所以我認為第四季的數據——我認為——令人感到欣慰。然而，市場瞬息萬變，每分每秒都在變化，因此我們需要觀察 2026 年競爭格局將如何演變。影響市場動態變化的關鍵因素之一顯然是市場收入成長水平，而這總是很難預測的。希望這能讓你對我之前的評論有更清晰的了解或解釋。

Steve Wieczynski, Stifel.

史蒂夫·維欽斯基，斯蒂費爾。

Congratulations, Rob, I'll add that in real quick. So Patrick, probably for you. If we think about the drop in the Macao margins, which was, I think, about 390 basis points or somewhere in that range, wondering how we should think about margins for the rest of the year, maybe how you guys are thinking about margins for the rest of the year? I'm not looking for guidance, so to speak, but just -- if we don't have visibility into that base mass business and we continue to see this shift towards rolling play and even the high end of non-rolling, should we consider the margins we saw in the fourth quarter a pretty good run rate, at least for the foreseeable future?

恭喜你，羅布，我馬上加上去。所以派崔克，這大概是給你的吧。如果我們考慮到澳門利潤率的下降（我認為下降了大約 390 個基點或在這個範圍內），我們就會思考今年剩餘時間的利潤率應該如何看待，你們又是如何看待今年剩餘時間的利潤率的呢？我不是尋求指導，而是想問——如果我們無法了解大眾市場的基本情況，並且我們繼續看到這種向滾動式遊戲甚至高端非滾動式遊戲的轉變，那麼我們是否應該認為我們在第四季度看到的利潤率是一個相當不錯的運行率，至少在可預見的未來是這樣？

Yeah. I think the way we think about it is that we sort of think about this business as a low 30s margin business, low 30% margin business, just given the mix of play and who's coming to the buildings, the promotional activity necessary to support the patrons. If the base mass comes back in some way, like it existed prepandemic, that's a very high-margin business, and our margin structure can change positively if we overweight towards the IP play, which is a lower-margin business, the margin may be a little bit tighter. But we'd like to believe this is a low 30s margin business and go from there.

是的。我認為我們看待這個問題的方式是，考慮到娛樂活動的組合、來場館的觀眾以及為了支持顧客而開展的促銷活動，我們認為這個行業的利潤率大概在 30% 左右。如果基礎市場規模以某種方式恢復到疫情前的狀態，那將是一個利潤率非常高的業務，如果我們過度依賴利潤率較低的智慧財產權業務，我們的利潤率結構可能會發生積極變化，利潤率可能會稍微下降一些。但我們願意相信這是一個利潤率在 30% 左右的業務，並以此為基礎進行發展。

But I think right now, we're really focused on growing revenue, growing EBITDA and the long-term health of how we grow. And we also believe that our investment over time that we talked about earlier will allow us to attract high-value patrons and position us well for future growth. And we're focused on all those things.

但我認為，目前我們真正關注的是提高收入、提高 EBITDA 以及我們長期健康發展的方式。我們也相信，正如我們之前提到的，隨著時間的推移，我們的投資將使我們能夠吸引高價值的客戶，並為未來的發展奠定良好的基礎。我們關注的重點就是所有這些方面。

Okay. And then second question probably for Grant. Grant, wondering if you think about that base mass business, which hasn't really returned or improved? One maybe get your updated thoughts in terms of what you attribute that to? Or what factors do you think are kind of continue to hold that segment of the market back?

好的。第二個問題可能要問格蘭特。格蘭特，不知道你是否考慮過大眾消費市場，它並沒有真正復甦或改善？或許您可以分享一下您對造成這種情況的原因的最新看法？或者說，你認為還有哪些因素持續阻礙這部分市場的發展？

Steve, thanks for the question. I think when you see the sequential change in the quarter, obviously, base mass did not really grow, whereas premium mass did. I think what you're seeing is that the lower-end segments, the spend per head has been on a declining trend versus pre-COVID.

史蒂夫，謝謝你的提問。我認為，從季度環比變化來看，很明顯，基礎銷量並沒有真正增長，而高端銷量卻增長了。我認為你看到的是，低端市場的人均支出與新冠疫情前相比呈下降趨勢。

As to why that is the case, we can speculate different reasons. But I think the most helpful comment we can make on that is simply to observe that, yes, I think since COVID and even in the last few quarters where GGR has accelerated, the base mass, particularly looking at revenue spend per customer in those lower value segments really has been quite stagnant. And of course, you guys might be in a better position to speculate on drivers from the economy to other factors. But we can just tell you what we're seeing on the ground in terms of premium mass versus base mass. And you can see those numbers very clearly in the size that provides.

至於為什麼會這樣，我們可以推測出不同的原因。但我認為我們能對此做出的最有幫助的評論是，是的，我認為自新冠疫情以來，甚至在最近幾個季度 GGR 加速增長的情況下，基數，特別是低價值細分市場中每位客戶的收入支出，實際上一直相當停滯不前。當然，你們或許更有資格推測經濟和其他因素的驅動因素。但我們可以告訴你，就高端產品與基礎產品的品質而言，我們在實際應用中看到了什麼。您可以從提供的尺寸中非常清楚地看到這些數字。

John DeCree, CBRE.

John DeCree，世邦魏理仕。

And Rob, I'll pile on the gratitude, and congratulations as well. My question, Grant, also related to that base mass customer, if I could build on maybe Steve's question. And so spend per head is down, but are you seeing comparable levels of property visitation from that customer? And is there anything you guys have tried to do to stimulate higher spend? Obviously, the premium segment is quite competitive with player reinvestment, but is there anything you can do to maybe help get that customer to open up the wallet a little bit more?

羅布，我還要向你表達我的感激之情和祝賀。格蘭特，我的問題也與大眾客戶群有關，我能否在史蒂夫的問題基礎上再補充一些內容呢？因此，人均消費額下降了，但您是否看到該客戶對房產的訪問量達到了類似的水平？你們有沒有嘗試過什麼方法來刺激消費成長？顯然，高端市場競爭非常激烈，玩家的再投資意願也很高，但您能否採取一些措施，幫助客戶更願意掏腰包？

Sure. We can, and we are. I think property visitation across Sands China remains very strong. I think we actually slightly exceeded 2019 in 2025, approaching 100 million visitations in the whole year, but that's where we can also see the lower spend per visitation because it hasn't fed through into the base mass revenues to the extent that you would have expected given this level of property visitation. I think what we have been doing and what we can continue to do is to leverage the assets that we have for that base mass and mid-tier across the retail malls that we have across the entertainment calendar that we provide.

當然。我們能做到，而且我們正在這樣做。我認為金沙中國旗下各物業的參觀量依然非常強勁。我認為我們在 2025 年實際上略微超過了 2019 年的水平，全年接近 1 億人次的訪問量，但與此同時，我們也可以看到每次訪問的消費額較低，因為考慮到如此高的訪問量，它並沒有像你預期的那樣轉化為基礎大眾收入。我認為我們一直在做的，也是我們可以繼續做的，就是利用我們現有的資產，為我們在零售商場提供的娛樂活動和中端市場提供基礎大眾和中端產品。

And obviously, all of the attractions that we can offer as the most diverse, an extensive integrated resort in Macao. And we're doing all of those things, including, I think, really pushing hard on the event calendar as well as introduce new nongaming loyalty programs into the market, particularly for the retail mall business. And we're seeing good take-up and good success in some of those initiatives. However, when we come back to the base mass gaming, that level of base mass gaming is just not growing as fast as the premium segments.

顯然，作為澳門最多元化、最全面的綜合度假勝地，我們能夠提供各種各樣的景點。我們正在做所有這些事情，包括，我認為，真正大力推進活動日程安排，以及向市場推出新的非遊戲忠誠度計劃，特別是針對零售商場業務。我們看到其中一些舉措得到了很好的回應和成功。然而，當我們回到基礎大眾遊戲市場時，基礎大眾遊戲市場的成長速度遠不及高端市場。

Thank you. That concludes today's Q&A session. I would now like to hand the call over to Patrick Dumont for closing remarks.

謝謝。今天的問答環節到此結束。現在我謹將電話交給派崔克‧杜蒙，請他作總結發言。

One final item today before we complete the call. I would like to mention that Rob is going to be serving in a new role as Senior Adviser to the company for the next two years. On behalf of the company's Board of Directors, the senior leadership team, all of our team members, I want to use this opportunity to thank Rob for 30 years of extraordinary contributions to the company and for all of his leadership. Rob served in many important leadership roles for LVS. He's also been a strong and vocal advocate for the gaming industry as a whole.

今天通話結束前還有最後一件事。我想提一下，羅布將在未來兩年擔任公司高級顧問這一新職位。我謹代表公司董事會、高階領導團隊以及全體團隊成員，藉此機會感謝羅布30年來為公司做出的卓越貢獻以及他展現出的所有領導力。Rob 在 LVS 擔任過許多重要的領導職務。他一直以來都是遊戲產業整體的堅定支持者和積極發聲者。

There are not many individuals who have even more of this industry than he has. Rob has hired, led and mentor numerous people over the years. Many of these people serve in leadership roles in the industry or elsewhere because Rob Goldstein took the time to invest in them and their careers.

在這個行業裡，很少人比他更有經驗。多年來，羅布招募、領導和指導了許多人。這些人中有很多在行業或其他領域擔任領導職務，因為羅布·戈德斯坦花時間培養他們和他們的職業生涯。

Finally, I want to recognize and thank Rob for his steadfast commitment to the Adelson family. Rob and Sheldon had a wonderful friendship and achieved so much together. On behalf of Dr. Adelson and the family, thank you, Rob, for everything you've given this company. Your contributions to this industry and this company are too many to list, but they will always be recognized and appreciated.

最後，我要感謝羅布對阿德爾森家族的堅定承諾。羅布和謝爾頓有著美好的友誼，他們一起取得了許多成就。羅布，我謹代表阿德爾森博士和家人，感謝你為公司所做的一切。您對這個行業和這家公司的貢獻數不勝數，但我們永遠都會認可和感激。

So in closing, I would like to thank you, and I would like our entire team to look forward to working with you in your new role. Thank you, Rob.

最後，我要感謝您，也希望我們整個團隊都期待著您在新崗位上與您共事。謝謝你，羅布。

Thank you, Patrick. Promise better margins in Macao. Stay the course. Thank you very much. Very kind.

謝謝你，派崔克。承諾在澳門提供更高的利潤率。堅持到底。非常感謝。非常友善。

Thank you for all your kind comments. I appreciate it, and we will improve in Macao and continue to strive for better results. Thank you.

感謝大家的友善評論。我很感激，我們將在澳門改進，並繼續努力取得更好的成績。謝謝。

Thank you. And this does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.

謝謝。今天的會議到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路了，祝您有美好的一天。感謝您的參與。