拉斯維加斯金沙集團 (LVS) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands second-quarter 2025 earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，大家好，歡迎參加金沙集團 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）

It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at Sands. Sir, the floor is yours.

現在我很高興將發言權交給金沙集團投資者關係資深副總裁丹尼爾布里格斯先生。先生，請您發言。

Thank you. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO; Patrick Dumont, our President and Chief Operating Officer, Dr. Wilfred Wong, Executive Vice Chairman of Sands China; and Grant Chum, CEO and President of Sands China and EVP of our Asia operation.

謝謝。今天參加電話會議的有我們的董事長兼執行長 Rob Goldstein、我們的總裁兼營運長 Patrick Dumont、金沙中國執行副主席 Wilfred Wong 博士以及金沙中國執行長兼總裁兼亞洲業務執行副總裁 Grant Chum。

Today's conference call will contain forward-looking statements. We will be making those statements under the Safe Harbor provision of federal securities laws. The language on forward-looking statements included in our press release and 8-K filing also apply to our comments made on the call today. The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward-looking statements.

今天的電話會議將包含前瞻性陳述。我們將根據聯邦證券法的安全港條款做出這些聲明。我們的新聞稿和 8-K 文件中包含的前瞻性陳述的語言也適用於我們今天在電話會議上發表的評論。該公司的實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述所反映的結果有重大差異。

In addition, we will discuss non-GAAP measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measures are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website, we will refer to that presentation during the call.

此外，我們也將討論非公認會計準則衡量指標。我們的新聞稿中包含了與最具可比性的 GAAP 財務指標的對帳。我們已經在我們的網站上發布了一份收益報告，我們將在電話會議中參考該報告。

(Operator Instructions) This presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Rob.

（操作員指示）此示範正在錄製。我現在將電話轉給 Rob。

Thanks, Dan, and good afternoon, and thank you for joining us. Marina Bay Sands had a historic quarter, EBITDA of $768 million. We had forecasted that MBS could do $2.5 billion annually and that may just happen this year. All the pieces are in place for this property to continue to perform. Mass gaming and slot win did $843 million, reflecting a 97% growth in Q2 of 2019, 40% higher than last year same quarter.

謝謝，丹，下午好，謝謝您加入我們。濱海灣金沙酒店本季的獲利創歷史新高，EBITDA 達到 7.68 億美元。我們曾預測 MBS 每年可獲得 25 億美元的收益，而這可能在今年實現。一切條件都已具備，該酒店將能夠繼續保持良好的業績。大眾博弈和老虎機贏利達到 8.43 億美元，比 2019 年第二季成長 97%，比去年同期高出 40%。

We are in the right place at the right time. Singapore is a very desirable destination and our product is as good as it gets. It's difficult to find superlatives that describe the magnitude of this result is unprecedented for a single building to perform like this.

我們在正確的時間出現在正確的地點。新加坡是一個非常理想的目的地，我們的產品也是極佳的。很難找到最高級的字眼來描述這項成果的規模，對於一棟建築物來說，這樣的表現是前所未有的。

Macau did $566 million of EBITDA for the quarter. We have underperformed in this market. We will not address enough as it relates to customer reinvestment. We believe our billings would be enough, we were wrong. And so in the middle of the quarter, we changed our approach to enable us to increase market share and EBITDA. We will, however, be market sensitive.

澳門本季的 EBITDA 為 5.66 億美元。我們在這個市場的表現不佳。由於它與客戶再投資有關，因此我們不會對此進行充分的討論。我們認為我們的帳單就足夠了，但我們錯了。因此，在本季中期，我們改變了方法，以增加市場佔有率和 EBITDA。然而，我們會對市場保持敏感。

Our assets remain the strongest in the world. The Londoner is open and moving towards our goal of $1 billion of annualized EBITDA. This new approach will create higher market share EBITDA. At the same time, Macau's GGR accelerated this quarter, a very positive sign. Our goal is to [review] Macau. And that (inaudible) Macau's increased GGR and our strong assets will enable us to deliver improved results in the future.

我們的資產仍然是世界上最強大的。倫敦人已開業並朝著 10 億美元年度 EBITDA 的目標邁進。這種新方法將創造更高的市場佔有率EBITDA。同時，本季澳門博彩總收入加速成長，這是一個非常正面的訊號。我們的目標是[審查]澳門。而且（聽不清楚）澳門博彩總收入的增加和我們強大的資產將使我們在未來取得更好的表現。

Let's turn to Patrick for more (inaudible).

讓我們向 Patrick 詢問更多（聽不清楚）。

Thanks, Rob. Macau EBITDA was $566 million. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $7 million. When adjusted for higher-than-expected [holds] on rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for the Macau portfolio properties would have been 31.3%, down 80 basis points compared to the second quarter of 2024. All 2,450 rooms and suites at the Londoner Grand were available over the last two months of the quarter.

謝謝，羅布。澳門 EBITDA 為 5.66 億美元。如果我們按照預期執行滾動計劃，我們的 EBITDA 將會降低 700 萬美元。在調整高於預期的滾動分部持有量後，我們澳門投資組合物業的 EBITDA 利潤率將為 31.3%，較 2024 年第二季下降 80 個基點。本季最後兩個月，倫敦大飯店的全部 2,450 間客房和套房均已預訂完畢。

We are focused on delivering revenue and cash flow growth at the Londoner across the portfolio. Margin at the Venetian was 35.6%, while margin at The Plaza and Four Seasons was 34% and margin at the Londoner was 31.9%. We expect growth in EBITDA as revenues grow as we use our scale and product advantages together with targeted reinvestment to better address every market segment.

我們專注於為整個投資組合中的倫敦人帶來收入和現金流的成長。威尼斯人的利潤率為 35.6%，廣場酒店和四季酒店的利潤率為 34%，倫敦人的利潤率為 31.9%。我們利用規模和產品優勢以及有針對性的再投資來更好地滿足每個細分市場的需求，隨著收入的成長，我們預計 EBITDA 也會成長。

Now turning to Singapore. MBS' EBITDA for the quarter was $768 million at a margin of 55.3%. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $107 million. There will naturally be fluctuations and hold rate in any specific quarter driven by game mix and player preference. The record financial results of Marina Bay Sands reflect the impact of high-quality investment in market-leading products and the growth in high-value tourism. We believe we are still in the initial stages of realizing the benefits of our investments in Marina Bay Sands.

現在轉向新加坡。MBS 本季的 EBITDA 為 7.68 億美元，利潤率為 55.3%。如果我們按照預期執行滾動計劃，我們的 EBITDA 將會降低 1.07 億美元。受遊戲組合和玩家偏好的影響，任何特定季度自然都會出現波動和持有率。濱海灣金沙創紀錄的財務表現反映了對市場領先產品的高品質投資以及高價值旅遊業的成長的影響。我們相信，我們仍處於實現濱海灣金沙投資收益的初始階段。

Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders. We repurchased $800 million of LVS stock during the quarter. We also paid our reoccurring dividend of $0.25 per share. In addition, during the second quarter and in July, we purchased $179 million worth of SCL stock, increasing the company's ownership percentage of SCL to 73.4% as of today.

轉向我們的向股東返還資本的計劃。我們在本季回購了價值 8 億美元的 LVS 股票。我們還支付了每股 0.25 美元的經常性股息。此外，在第二季和7月份，我們購買了價值1.79億美元的SCL股票，截至今天，該公司對SCL的持股比例已增至73.4%。

We believe repurchase of LVS equity through our share repurchase program will be meaningfully accretive to the company and its shareholders over the long term. We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's share repurchase program to increase returns to shareholders.

我們相信，透過我們的股票回購計畫回購 LVS 股權將從長遠來看為公司及其股東帶來有意義的增值。我們期待繼續利用公司的股票回購計畫來增加股東回報。

Thanks again for joining the call today. Now, let's take questions.

再次感謝您今天參加電話會議。現在，我們來回答問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Stephen Grambling, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的史蒂芬‧格蘭布林。

Hey, thank you. Starting with Macau, I appreciate the acknowledgment of the shortfall somewhat there. But perhaps remind us of how you're thinking about turning the tide from a competitive standpoint and what KPIs or timing investors should maybe be thinking about in terms of seeing some of the market share going in the opposite direction.

嘿，謝謝你。從澳門開始，我對那裡承認存在的不足表示讚賞。但也許請提醒我們，您是如何從競爭的角度考慮扭轉局勢的，以及投資者在看到部分市場份額朝著相反方向發展時應該考慮哪些關鍵績效指標 (KPI) 或時機。

I'll take that, Stephen. Thank you for the question. I think around late April, we started to implement a more aggressive customer reinvestment program. And I think we're seeing some encouraging initial results from those increased levels of, reinvestment, as we get into May and June, the performance of SCL did improve. And I think we will be continuing to adjust to the market conditions as and when necessary.

我接受，史蒂芬。謝謝你的提問。我想大約在四月下旬，我們開始實施更積極的客戶再投資計畫。我認為，我們看到了這些增加的再投資水準帶來的一些令人鼓舞的初步成果，隨著進入 5 月和 6 月，SCL 的表現確實有所改善。我認為我們將根據需要繼續適應市場狀況。

We're also looking at opportunity for us to perform better from our smaller properties, Parisian and Sands. So overall, the reception to Londoner has been phenomenal. I think we're getting exceptional feedback from customers and that's obviously growing nicely. But obviously, this quarter is still just the start. All of the rooms, as Patrick referenced, were available from late April. And we intend to continue to yield better at Londoner Macau.

我們也在尋找機會，讓我們規模較小的酒店，巴黎人和金沙酒店，表現更好。總體而言，倫敦人受到了熱烈的歡迎。我認為我們從客戶那裡得到了非常好的回饋，而且這種回饋顯然正在很好地發展。但顯然，本季仍只是個開始。正如帕特里克所提到的，所有房間從四月底開始都可以入住。我們打算繼續為澳門倫敦人帶來更好的利益。

So that probably has much further to go. And then the rest of the portfolio, we have to adjust our reinvestment levels according to the product and according to the individual product mix within the property. And I think this process has only just started, and we'll continue to see, I think, improvements in our results as we have done since May and June already. And as you can see, we have a sequential improvement in our mass GGR market share up 8% for the quarter and we intend to drive better improvements and also hopefully recapture that market share in the coming quarters.

因此這可能還有很長的路要走。然後，對於投資組合的其餘部分，我們必須根據產品以及房產內的個別產品組合來調整我們的再投資水準。我認為這個過程才剛開始，我們將繼續看到結果的改善，就像我們自五月和六月以來所做的那樣。如您所見，本季我們的大眾博彩市佔率連續提升了 8%，我們打算推動更好的改進，並希望在未來幾季重新奪回這一市場份額。

So I just want to say one thing, which is we're not where we want to be in Macau. We feel like we've made great investments. We have great products and we believe we can grow EBITDA from here. We're very focused on it. We realize we have work to do in our reinvestment programs.

所以我只想說一件事，那就是澳門目前還沒有達到我們想要的水準。我們感覺我們做了巨大的投資。我們擁有優質的產品，我們相信我們可以從這裡實現 EBITDA 的成長。我們非常關注這一點。我們意識到我們的再投資計劃還有很多工作要做。

We have things that we think we can do to be more competitive and we're going to take some action. And we think we have an approach that we opened in the long run with great growth for us, both on the revenue and EBITDA side.

我們認為我們可以做一些事情來提高競爭力，並且我們將採取一些行動。我們認為，從長遠來看，我們採取的方法將為我們帶來巨大的成長，無論是在收入方面還是在 EBITDA 方面。

So maybe one quick follow-up there just on Macau. You said you're not where you want to be, what does that mean for capital allocation in that market? You just have a pretty healthy dividend payout and in that market as a percentage of free cash flow and earnings. If you go -- I mean should we be waiting for that turnaround to see you go back down that path? And if you start paying out a dividend, is that prior kind of ratio, the right way to think about it going forward?

因此，也許我們只需快速跟進一下澳門的情況。你說你還沒有達到你想要的水平，這對該市場的資本配置意味著什麼？您的股息支付相當健康，並且在該市場中佔自由現金流和收益的百分比。如果你走了——我的意思是我們是否應該等待那個轉折點才能看到你回到那條路上？如果您開始支付股息，那麼之前的比例是否是考慮未來的正確方法？

Yes. So I think the key thing is that we've always been focused on return to capital, particularly with the dividend at the SCL level. I think as we see the CapEx roll off from the Londoner, which was a very meaningful investment that we feel will generate cash flow over the long term, and we're happy to make it. But that being said, hopefully, our CapEx profile looks better in the future, as you can see from our CapEx expectations that we published. And so when that happens, we'll look to return to increasing the dividend over time with the support of the SCL Board.

是的。因此我認為關鍵是我們始終關注資本回報，特別是 SCL 層級的股息。我認為，隨著我們看到倫敦人的資本支出增加，這是一項非常有意義的投資，我們認為它將在長期內產生現金流，我們很高興做到這一點。但話雖如此，希望我們的資本支出狀況在未來看起來會更好，正如您從我們發布的資本支出預期中看到的那樣。因此，當這種情況發生時，我們將在 SCL 董事會的支持下逐步增加股利。

But for us, we think that the best use of free cash flow there, other than investing in growth projects, is to return it to shareholders. And you've seen how we've handled in the past, and we look forward to doing that again in the future. And I think the levels will be based on our expectations of cash flow production going forward.

但對我們來說，我們認為，除了投資成長項目之外，自由現金流的最佳用途就是將其回饋給股東。你們已經看到了我們過去的處理方式，我們期待將來再次這樣做。我認為這些水準將基於我們對未來現金流生產的預期。

Great, I'll yield to the floor. Thank you.

太好了，我讓步發言。謝謝。

Shaun Kelley, Bank of America.

美國銀行的肖恩凱利 (Shaun Kelley)。

Hi, good afternoon, everyone. For Grant or whoever wants to take it. Maybe we could just start in Macau. We did see across the market a bit of an improvement sequentially as the quarter went on in, sort of, overall market GGR. We've heard some mixed views about how either promotionally-driven or VIP or event-driven that was. So hoping to get a little bit of color on just what's driving that improvement? How sustainable you think it is? And just broader health of the macro in the market right now?

大家好，下午好。對於格蘭特或任何想要獲得它的人來說。也許我們可以從澳門開始。隨著本季的進展，我們確實看到整個市場在整體市場博彩總收入方面有所改善。我們聽到了一些關於這是否是由促銷驅動、VIP 驅動或活動驅動的不同看法。那麼，希望稍微了解一下推動這種改善的因素是什麼嗎？您認為它的可持續性如何？那麼目前市場宏觀狀況的整體狀況如何？

Sure. Thanks for the question, Shaun. I think the market clearly accelerated from May and June, obviously, was a standout performance, I think, helped by the calendar of events that prevailed in June. If you look at the segment breakdown, clearly, as you can see from the DICJ data as well, the rolling -- the VIP segment performed very well during the quarter and was up 26% year on year of our estimates.

當然。謝謝你的提問，肖恩。我認為市場從五月和六月開始明顯加速，顯然是一個出色的表現，我認為這要歸功於六月發生的一系列事件。如果您看一下細分市場的細分情況，就會清楚的是，正如您從 DICJ 數據中看到的那樣，滾動式 VIP 細分市場在本季度表現非常好，比我們預期的同比增長了 26%。

But the non-rolling and the slot win also improved, and we're still in the high single-digit growth region for the quarter. So I think there's some very encouraging signs. I think a mix between improved customer density, but also the calendar events and the offerings by the operators helping to drive the increased patronage as well.

但非滾動和老虎機贏利也有所改善，本季我們仍處於高個位數成長區域。所以我認為這裡有一些非常令人鼓舞的跡象。我認為，提高顧客密度、日曆活動以及營運商提供的服務等多種因素都有助於增加顧客數量。

Thanks for that, Grant. And then maybe just to switch gears, as a follow up on Singapore. Rob, obviously, just incredible performance on the numbers, I mean, over $750 million from a single building in a single quarter is kind of hard to wrap your brain around. Can you give us your best stab at how we should think about maybe a run rate or sort of level of productivity for this property moving forward? Are we sustainably above $600 million of EBITDA a quarter?

謝謝你，格蘭特。然後也許只是換個話題，作為新加坡問題的後續。羅布，顯然，從數字上看，這些表現令人難以置信，我的意思是，一棟建築在一個季度內就創造了超過 7.5 億美元的收入，這有點令人難以想像。您能否盡力告訴我們，我們應該如何考慮該物業未來的運行率或生產力水平？我們每季的 EBITDA 能否持續超過 6 億美元？

I know -- I think we have a good sense of what your stretch goal here is that $2.5 billion core. But just help us think about it to level set expectations given it wasn't a fairly easy comp on the mass market and obviously, VIP, it can be volatile quarter to quarter on the handle side. Thanks.

我知道——我認為我們很清楚你的延伸目標是什麼，那就是 25 億美元的核心。但是，請幫助我們思考一下，以平衡預期，因為在大眾市場上這並不是一個相當容易的比較，而且顯然，VIP 在手柄方面每個季度都可能波動。謝謝。

It's hard to predict, isn't it? I mean I don't think we forecasted a $770 million quarter. I don't think we have a clear view of it if this is sustainable, if this go forward. It's proving, though, that it would be an amazing market, and we have the best assets by far in the market. So how high is up? And how deep is that well? I don't know.

這很難預測，不是嗎？我的意思是，我認為我們並沒有預測到本季的營收為 7.7 億美元。我認為我們還不清楚這是否可持續，是否能夠繼續發展。但事實證明，這將是一個令人驚嘆的市場，而且我們擁有迄今為止市場上最好的資產。那麼最高處有多高呢？那口井有多深？我不知道。

I mean the truth is it'd be very difficult to dismiss these results and say, we are now heading for $2.5 billion, we get to $2.6 billion, $2.7 billion, can I continue? And so it's very hard to predict, it's not an easy market. There's never anything like this in the history of gaming anywhere. You realize this -- at this run rate, it's a $3 billion asset. We don't expect to do that now. I think yes, $2.5 billion is realistic and doable. But I would not want to venture a guess, I wouldn't want to dismiss the results, but I would overhype them and say, every quarter is 750. I think that's unfair.

我的意思是，事實是，很難忽視這些結果，並且說，我們現在正朝著 25 億美元邁進，我們達到 26 億美元，27 億美元，我可以繼續嗎？所以這很難預測，這不是一個容易的市場。在遊戲史上從未發生過這樣的事。你知道嗎——以這個運行速度，這是一筆價值 30 億美元的資產。我們現在不打算這麼做。我認為，25億美元是現實可行的。但我不想冒險猜測，也不想否定結果，但我會誇大其詞，說每季都是 750。我認為這是不公平的。

But could we do 600 million-plus or 650 million? Possible, yes. It depends on how strong the economy remains over there and the super high end of the markets there. And we dominate it, and we're kind of alone in that place as far as the super high end. So it could be that we're looking at all the world in Singapore, and we'll have to wait and see, time will tell. We just don't know because we didn't see this coming this early, we thought it would come later, but it's here so deal with it.

但我們能做到 6 億多或 6.5 億嗎？是的，有可能。這取決於那裡的經濟狀況以及那裡的高端市場狀況。我們佔據主導地位，就超高端而言，我們在那個地方是獨一無二的。因此，我們可能正在新加坡觀察全世界，我們只能拭目以待，時間會給出答案。我們只是不知道，因為我們沒有這麼早就預見到這種情況，我們以為它會晚點發生，但它已經發生了，所以只能接受它。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Dan Pulitzer, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的丹‧普立茲。

Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. I just -- I wanted to go back and circle on Macau, right? It seems like you, guys, are going to be more promotional, you're going to get -- be focused on generating that EBITDA level. Is there a target of the EBITDA share that we should think about that kind of gets you to where you want to be just looking at the historical 33% to 35% EBITDA share you've had in that market? Or how should we kind of assess your strategy there and when -- your KPIs for getting back to a level you think is appropriate?

嘿，大家下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。我只是──我想回去繞澳門一圈，對嗎？看來你們將會更重視促銷，你們將會專注於達成 EBITDA 水準。我們是否應該考慮一個 EBITDA 份額目標，以便讓您達到您想要的水平，只需看看您在該市場歷史上 33% 到 35% 的 EBITDA 份額？或者我們應該如何評估您的策略以及何時——您的 KPI 才能回到您認為合適的水平？

I think we should take this one step at a time. Our goal -- we acknowledge our failure and believing our assets were so strong, we could overcome this very different environment we're used to. We've now jumped the water. We're not [repeating] the market, we're simply in the mix and that's a good thing.

我認為我們應該一步一步來。我們的目標—我們承認我們的失敗，並相信我們的資產非常強大，我們能夠克服這個與我們習慣的截然不同的環境。我們現在已經跳出水面。我們不是在重複市場，我們只是參與其中，這是一件好事。

I believe our assets -- our short-term goal in the near quarters is to get -- we believe the Londoner and Venetian can generate $2 billion between them. We believe that the Four Seasons will be $300 million-plus. I'd say [operation did] million plus, making the Sands into $100 million more because things are changing down the Peninsula. Our short-term goal, my goal and my hope the team shares is that we can get to $2.7 billion run rate and come off the bottom here. As I think at 2.2, 2.3, we're just not performing well.

我相信我們的資產——我們近期的短期目標是——我們相信倫敦人和威尼斯人可以共同創造 20 億美元的收益。我們相信四季酒店的估值將超過3億美元。我想說 [行動] 賺了 100 多萬美元，讓金沙集團賺了 1 億美元，因為半島的情況正在改變。我們的短期目標、我的目標以及團隊共同的希望是，我們可以達到 27 億美元的運行率並擺脫困境。我認為在 2.2、2.3 時我們的表現並不好。

We have the best assets. So three things: acceleration of GGR is very helpful. And the most important thing by far is that; second thing is we have the best -- the biggest assets in that town, the most rooms, the best product; and third thing is we've come off our thinking, we changed our thinking. So I'm hoping that Brent and team can see in near future, 600-plus, 650 down the road and get us all the back to the 2.6, 2.7 range. That's our short-term goal.

我們擁有最好的資產。所以有三件事：加速 GGR 非常有幫助。到目前為止，最重要的是：第二件事是我們擁有最好的——鎮上最大的資產、最多的房間、最好的產品；第三件事是我們已經擺脫了我們的思維，我們改變了我們的思維。所以我希望布倫特和他的團隊能夠在不久的將來實現 600 多、650 的目標，讓我們回到 2.6、2.7 的範圍。這是我們的短期目標。

Beyond that, wait until the market matures. Let's face it, if this market turns on the accelerate at this rate, we might see everyone do much better. That would be the best thing for Macau, but I think it's very possible that happens in '25 even '26, '27. So this is just our acknowledgment that we did not do a good enough job in that environment and we're doing it now. And we have full faith in our team over there and our assets to perform and get us back in the game.

除此之外，還要等到市場成熟。讓我們面對現實吧，如果這個市場以這種速度加速發展，我們可能會看到每個人都做得更好。這對澳門來說是最好的事情，但我認為這在 2025 年甚至 2026 年、2027 年也很有可能實現。所以這只是我們承認我們在那個環境下做得不夠好，我們現在正在彌補。我們完全相信我們的球隊和資產能夠發揮出最佳水平並讓我們重返賽場。

Got it. That's helpful detail. Just a follow-up on Singapore. Is there any way to kind of wrap our heads around that sudden acceleration in those gaming volumes? Because it does seem like it was pretty concentrated on just the gaming side. And, I mean, we're trying to parse this out if there was new customers, maybe reception for the property improvement in new suite product, anything in the event calendar. Just trying to make sense of what's obviously typically the seasonally softest quarter of the year here to be so strong.

知道了。這是很有幫助的細節。這只是對新加坡的後續報導。有什麼方法可以讓我們理解遊戲量突然加速的原因嗎？因為它看起來確實非常專注於遊戲方面。我的意思是，我們正在嘗試分析是否有新客戶，也許是新套房產品的物業改進的接待，活動日曆中的任何內容。只是想弄清楚為什麼這裡通常為一年中最淡季的季度卻表現如此強勁。

I think a lot of it has to do with the product. We spent the last couple of years reinvesting there significantly, not only in the physical product, but also in the service levels and the experience that you can provide to people. And the type of customer we are coming through the property and the nature where Singapore sits today, the growing economies [and wealth creation] in Southeast Asia. It's just -- it's all working.

我認為這很大程度上與產品有關。過去幾年，我們在該領域進行了大量的再投資，不僅在實體產品上，還在服務水準和為人們提供的體驗上。我們透過新加坡的房地產和自然環境以及東南亞不斷增長的經濟（和財富創造）來吸引客戶。只是——一切都在正常運作。

We have a very strong view on the future of Singapore. And you can see by the type of customers that we have coming in, that is not only a very strong market, but it's very deep. And so for us, yes, there's new customers coming in, they're attracted by what we have on offer. They're coming to Singapore to do business, they're coming to Singapore for leisure travel, and they're showing up on Marina Bay Sands and they're consuming.

我們對新加坡的未來抱持著非常堅定的看法。從我們迎接的客戶類型可以看出，這不僅是一個非常強大的市場，而且非常深厚。所以對我們來說，是的，有新客戶進來，他們被我們提供的產品所吸引。他們來新加坡做生意，他們來新加坡休閒旅遊，他們來到濱海灣金沙消費。

So it's great, it's a tribute to the team there and the investment that we've made and the way we execute. But really there, it's just a reflection of who's coming into the market and the fact that we provide experiences that are pretty unique, and they're really taking advantage of it.

這很棒，這是對那裡的團隊以及我們所做的投資和執行方式的致敬。但實際上，這只是反映了誰進入了市場，以及我們提供的非常獨特的體驗，而他們確實在利用它。

We're a different building than we were five years ago. If you come and visit and you see it. You'll see the differences and realize that we attract a very high level of patron.

我們的建築與五年前相比已經不同了。如果你來參觀並且看到它。您會看到差異並意識到我們吸引了非常多的顧客。

I think you also have to give credit to the government of Singapore, which allows us to dream and excel. And what Patrick referenced, that building is in their last week for the groundbreaking of a number of our second building. It's an amazing place but the market is also 4 billion Asian people at the very top end looking for extraordinary experience and assets we have in spades over there. I think that the truth is that building is just the most desirable, it's super high end, and there's lots of -- a lot of people coming to Singapore. And propensity gamble, as you know, is high in that part of the world.

我認為你也必須讚揚新加坡政府，它讓我們擁有夢想並超越自我。正如帕特里克所提到的，該建築是我們第二座建築的奠基儀式的最後一周。這是一個令人驚嘆的地方，但這個市場也是 40 億亞洲最高端人群尋求非凡經驗和資產的地方，而我們在那裡擁有大量資產。我認為事實是，建築是最令人嚮往的，它是超高端的，而且有很多人來到新加坡。如你所知，傾向賭博在那個地區很盛行。

So we're just in a very fortunate position. I don't see it changing. I mean we're in a very privileged position and hopefully goes on for quite a long time. So we are not one to forecast it $600 million, $700 million, $800 million a quarter but we know we're in the right place, the right time with extraordinarily strong assets and excellent government support and a very strong market in terms of Singapore visitation.

所以我們處於非常幸運的位置。我沒有看到它有任何改變。我的意思是，我們處於非常有利的地位，並且希望這種地位能夠持續很長一段時間。因此，我們無法預測每季的收入將達到 6 億、7 億或 8 億美元，但我們知道我們處於正確的地點，正確的時機，擁有極其強大的資產、出色的政府支持以及新加坡旅遊方面的非常強勁的市場。

I think one other thing that's important to note is we started to see some inklings of this as we started finishing the renovation but now everything is pretty much done. And so we're starting to see the results as we build customer experience and as they get to experience the property and see how it is to be there and the different things that we offer in this new format and it's starting to show results. I mean this is really just a direct result of the completion of the renovation and the type of customers that we can attract with the products that's there now.

我認為另一件值得注意的事情是，當我們開始完成裝修時，我們開始看到一些這方面的跡象，但現在一切都已基本完成。因此，隨著我們建立客戶體驗，當他們體驗到酒店並了解酒店的感覺以及我們以這種新形式提供的不同服務時，我們開始看到成果，並且它開始顯示出成果。我的意思是，這實際上只是裝修完成的直接結果，以及我們可以透過現有產品吸引的客戶類型。

Got it, thanks. It's nice to see the investment bear fruit. Thanks.

明白了，謝謝。很高興看到投資有成果。謝謝。

Brandt Montour, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的布蘭特‧蒙圖爾 (Brandt Montour)。

Good afternoon or good evening, everybody. Thanks for taking my question. So my first question is on Macau. I think from where we sit, it's sort of hard to -- we see clearly a strengthening of the Chinese consumer in your market and gambling propensity. I was wondering if you could flesh that out a little bit and talk about spend-per-visit improvement sequentially across either base mass or premium mass.

大家下午好或晚上好。感謝您回答我的問題。我的第一個問題是關於澳門的。我認為從我們目前的情況來看，這有點難以——我們清楚地看到貴國市場上的中國消費者和賭博傾向正在增強。我想知道您是否可以稍微詳細闡述一下，並依次討論基礎品質或高級品質的每次訪問花費的改善情況。

We all kind of thought it would be a premium mass sort of recovery here in May and June. But I'm looking at your slides, it looks like base mass per table actually did better. So maybe you could just provide a little more color on who's spending more where.

我們都認為五月和六月將出現大規模的優質復甦。但我看了你的幻燈片，看起來每張表的基本品質實際上做得更好。因此，也許您可以提供更多詳細信息，說明誰在哪裡花費更多。

Hi, Brandt, maybe I'll take that question. I think overall visitation has been very strong. You see the results for April and May were up by over 20% year on year. Obviously, a lot of that is driven by the day-trip visitors from the Greater Bay area. But nonetheless, I think that's helping to drive some of the base mass recovery.

你好，布蘭特，也許我會回答這個問題。我認為整體訪問量非常強勁。你看四月和五月的業績年增了20%以上。顯然，這很大程度上是由來自大灣區的一日遊遊客所推動的。但儘管如此，我認為這有助於推動部分基礎品質的恢復。

But no question, I think the acceleration in GGR is still primarily driven by the premium segments. I think this quarter, in particular, the market benefited from some big rolling play, but also at the high end of the premium mass. So I think that those dynamics remain similar to previous quarters.

但毫無疑問，我認為博彩總收入的成長仍然主要受到高端市場的推動。我認為本季市場尤其受益於一些大型滾動活動，也受益於高端大眾市場。所以我認為這些動態與前幾季相似。

But we're beginning to see also increased level of visitation, albeit more from the Greater Bay Area in terms of day trippers. And of course, from our results as well, sequentially, I think you alluded to it clearly, we grew quite significantly in the base mass on rolling wind against Q1 and that's partly driven by the opening of the Londoner brand.

但我們也開始看到遊客數量增加，儘管來自大灣區的一日遊遊客更多。當然，從我們的結果來看，我認為你已經明確提到了這一點，與第一季相比，我們的滾動風基數增長相當顯著，這在一定程度上是受到倫敦人品牌開業的推動。

Okay. That's super helpful. And then just a quick follow-up on Macau. The Londoner result clearly had a nice bounce here in the second quarter and you alluded to in your prepared remarks that some of the other properties didn't do quite as well.

好的。這非常有幫助。然後我們再簡單談談澳門的情況。倫敦人的業績在第二季度明顯出現了良好的反彈，而您在準備好的發言中提到，其他一些酒店的表現並不那麼好。

Am I to read between the lines that the Londoner is the property that has received the most incremental reinvestment activity and the other properties have not and that's kind of next up in terms of your sort of blueprint or game plan here? Or is that not the right readthrough?

我是否應該從字裡行間看出，倫敦人是獲得最多增量再投資活動的房產，而其他房產卻沒有，而這是否是您接下來的藍圖或遊戲計劃的一部分？還是這不是正確的解讀？

No, that's not entirely accurate. In terms of our higher reinvestment levels, that just went into the portfolio across the board. I think what we are referencing earlier remarks is that we may need to further -- and we have to be further adjusting our reinvestment levels during the quarter towards the end of the quarter for some of our smaller properties because we think those products, given the size and the product level, may need recalibration in the reinvestment levels versus the natural action age that is flocking to Londoner and also the strength of the property like Venetian continues to be able to attract customers at all segments.

不，這並不完全準確。就我們更高的再投資水準而言，這些資金已全面進入投資組合。我認為我們引用先前的評論是，我們可能需要進一步——並且我們必須在本季度末進一步調整我們一些較小物業的再投資水平，因為我們認為這些產品考慮到規模和產品水平，可能需要重新調整再投資水平，以適應湧向倫敦人的自然行動年齡，而且威尼斯人等物業的實力能夠繼續吸引各個領域的客戶。

Great color. Thanks, everyone.

顏色很棒。謝謝大家。

Thanks, Grant.

謝謝，格蘭特。

Robin Farley, UBS.

瑞銀的羅賓法利。

Great, thank you. Just going back to the acceleration you talked about in June and Macau. It seems like driven at least fair amount of it by the events calendar. And so how do you get comfortable that it's sustainable as you get past some of the July events and the calendar not being as sustainable in terms of events?

太好了，謝謝。回到您談到的六月和澳門的加速問題。看起來至少有相當一部分是由事件日曆決定的。那麼，當您已經度過了 7 月份的一些活動並且日曆上的活動不再具有可持續性時，您如何確信它是可持續的呢？

I think, Robin, the calendar is being filled literally every week, every month by all of the different operators, us included. The change from before the pandemic is really every operator is contributing to the event calendar. And of course, the big events brought in whether by us at the Venetian arena, or by our competitor ,is beneficial to the entire market when we have significant acts. And that will obviously not be a consistent pattern because acts come at different times of the year in different length, duration of play and so on.

羅賓，我想，日曆上每週、每月都排滿了各種不同的行程，包括我們。與疫情之前相比，變化在於實際上每個運營商都在為活動日程做出貢獻。當然，無論是我們在威尼斯人競技場舉辦的大型活動，還是我們的競爭對手舉辦的大型活動，當我們舉辦重大活動時，對整個市場都是有益的。顯然，這不會形成一致的模式，因為表演在一年中的不同時間舉行，長度、演出持續時間等等都不同。

But you can be sure that the calendar will continue to be filled with great entertainment content. And I think Macau has really been successful in establishing itself as a regional center for entertainment, be it from Greater China artist, Asian artists, and even international artists.

但你可以肯定，日曆將繼續充滿精彩的娛樂內容。我認為澳門確實成功地將自己打造為一個區域娛樂中心，無論是大中華區藝術家、亞洲藝術家，還是國際藝術家。

Robin, I would just add to Grant's comments that I think it was last year, I wouldn't give us credit in Singapore because Taylor Swift made the whole thing happen. She wasn't available this quarter, we still did pretty well. I think the truth is -- at least she was -- we couldn't gather a comment, she was busy. But the truth is, we have in Macau, yes, lots of events but I've learned over the years, events just rearranged the customer visitations. We don't necessarily create new as much as the rearrangement people come and go.

羅賓，我只想補充格蘭特的評論，我認為那是去年，我不會給我們新加坡的榮譽，因為泰勒絲讓整個事情發生了。本季她沒空，但我們仍然做得很好。我認為事實是——至少她是——我們無法收集評論，她很忙。但事實是，我們在澳門確實舉辦過很多活動，但這些年來我了解到，這些活動只是重新安排了顧客的拜訪。我們不一定會創造新的，因為人們來來去去，重新安排。

And I think that, that market is showing strength. I mean June results, I think you just see that building. And yes, there's no question that you have a Jackie Chan and some of these high-end entertainer's help. But again, I think you have to look at the strength of market overall. And I believe it's there.

我認為，該市場正在展現強勁勢頭。我的意思是六月的結果，我想你只看到那棟建築。是的，毫無疑問，你得到了成龍和一些高端藝人的幫助。但我再次認為你必須看看整個市場的實力。我相信它就在那裡。

I haven't been there last month, it looked -- the first time it looked a like pre-pandemic Macau, very strong, lots of people at the tables. I don't believe the entertainers, even special events [especially] create more [business cases] we arrange when you come. So I wouldn't be that concerned with the event count. Although it's chock-full of events, everyone has entertainment these days and terrific restaurants, et cetera. But I think you have to look at the overall results for the last few months to be very encouraged where Macau appears to be headed.

我上個月沒去過那裡，它看起來——第一次看起來像疫情前的澳門，非常強勁，桌邊有很多人。我不相信藝人，甚至特別活動會在你來的時候創造更多的商業案例。所以我不會那麼在意事件數量。儘管這裡充滿了各種活動，但現在每個人都有娛樂活動、很棒的餐廳等等。但我認為，你必須看看過去幾個月的整體業績，才能對澳門的發展方向感到鼓舞。

Okay, great. Thank you. And for the follow-up, just a quick one. Are you thinking about revisiting what you consider a normal hold percent in Singapore? And I know you just raised it in Q1, but I'm wondering if you're thinking about whether that 3.7% was high enough for normalized hold? Thanks.

好的，太好了。謝謝。至於後續事宜，我只想簡單說一下。您是否考慮重新審視您認為新加坡的正常持有百分比？我知道您剛剛在第一季提高了這一比率，但我想知道您是否考慮過 3.7% 是否足以實現正常化持有？謝謝。

I wouldn't let one quarter drive your thinking. I think you have to stay focused on -- again, this is a very, very difficult thing for us and other competitors because as you know, [hold percent] is a moving target these days driven by who bets, what, and how and so it really does move. As you know, the smart tables have enabled us to see much more clearly a great insight to how the market should perform.

我不會讓四分之一左右你的思維。我認為你必須集中註意力——再說一次，這對我們和其他競爭對手來說是一件非常非常困難的事情，因為如你所知，[持有率]現在是一個不斷變化的目標，由誰下注、下注什麼以及如何下注決定，所以它確實會發生變化。如您所知，智慧錶使我們能夠更清楚地了解市場應該如何表現。

Some people move our hold percentage right now until we see more evidence. But it does change with the market and the visitation and the types of best customers made. The old days, it was 2.85, 3.25. That's no longer in [vote], it's now very much a moving target, depending on who's coming, what they're betting, side bets versus front bets. I think we'll come back to you in the future if we need to reassess right now that we're flying where we're at.

有些人現在就改變我們的持有比例，直到我們看到更多證據。但它確實會隨著市場、訪問量和最佳客戶類型的變化而變化。以前是2.85，3.25。現在這個賠率已經不再是投票標準了，現在是一個不斷變化的目標，取決於誰來，他們押注什麼，是附加註還是附加註。我想，如果我們現在需要重新評估我們的飛行狀況，我們將來會再向您諮詢。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Joe Stauff, Susquehanna.

喬·斯托夫，薩斯奎漢納。

Okay, thank you. Good afternoon. In Singapore, maybe a different attempt to ask a similar question that we've heard earlier on the call, but can I ask about just sort of mass gaming revenue and how strong it was? Is that simply a function of better hold? Is it increased visitation?

好的，謝謝。午安.在新加坡，也許我們會嘗試提出一個我們之前在電話會議上聽過的類似問題，但我可以問一下大眾博彩收入的情況以及它有多強勁嗎？這僅僅是更好保持的功能嗎？訪問量增加了嗎？

It's admittedly another question to just try to how to -- try to benchmark with the newer product that you have in Singapore how strong this number could be. Obviously, VIP is a separate category, different level of volatility. But how much -- is there any way to disaggregate this number a little bit more for understanding?

無可否認，這是另一個問題，只是嘗試如何——嘗試與您在新加坡的新產品進行對比，看看這個數字有多強。顯然，VIP 是一個單獨的類別，波動性程度不同。但是，有沒有什麼方法可以進一步細分這個數字，以便於理解呢？

I hate to say this, I'd like to answer, but it's very difficult for us to do it as well as you. When you do $843 million, up 97% in pre-pandemic and 40% higher year on year. It's hard for us to get our hands around it. But there's also a lot of people showing up in all these segments and gambling outsized amounts of money. And your question is a fair one. I wish we had better answers. And how deep is the well, how high can this thing go?

我不想這麼說，我很想回答，但我們很難做到像你一樣好。當你達到 8.43 億美元時，比疫情前成長了 97%，比去年同期成長了 40%。我們很難掌握它。但也有很多人出現在這些領域並投入巨額資金進行賭博。你的問題很合理。我希望我們有更好的答案。井有多深？這個東西能達到多高？

We're confused ourselves by it because we expected 2.5. But now I think we can say -- we can achieve it this year. And I think it's a combination of incredible market incredible access to people want to get there, the [visa] situation is helpful. And I think you're seeing the results of very, very superlative results into the building. The building is just unique and special. And there's lots of products.

我們自己也有點困惑，因為我們預期是2.5。但現在我想我們可以說——我們今年一定能實現。我認為，這是令人難以置信的市場和令人難以置信的准入條件的結合，人們想要去那裡，[簽證]情況是有幫助的。我認為您會看到這座建築取得的非常非常出色的成果。這棟建築非常獨特、特別。而且有很多產品。

So I know it's difficult and I hear your frustration. We share it over -- we don't want to exaggerate this and say we'll run $3 billion. We also don't want to underplay, we want to except the fact that it happened and it's happened now two quarters a row of strong results, opening for a similar second half of the year. And it's hard to model. I'd be blunt with you.

所以我知道這很困難，我也聽到了你的沮喪。我們分享它——我們不想誇大這一點並說我們將投入 30 億美元。我們也不想低估它，我們希望接受它已經發生的事實，而且它已經連續兩個季度取得了強勁的業績，為今年下半年的類似業績開了一個好頭。而且很難建模。我會直言不諱地告訴你。

I think one thing I would say is when you say mass gaming, premium mass gaming is alive well in those numbers. These are non-rolling, very high rolling -- don't consider this, people betting $1,000 an in, this premium mass segment, which is in that 847 number, 843 is a lot of very, very high-end non-rollers which is different than past Macau.

我想說的是，當你說到大眾博彩時，高端大眾博彩在這些數字中表現良好。這些都是非滾注的，滾注金額非常高——不要考慮這一點，人們每次下注 1,000 美元，這個高端大眾細分市場就是 847 號，843 號有很多非常非常高端的非滾注者，這與過去的澳門不同。

So I appreciate the commentary. Your question is very fair. I wish we had more insightful answer. We keep watching this thing and saying we lost a quarter it was amazing, but just kept coming and I think I'll just keep coming in Singapore. When we beat the customers, a different issue was 3.7 or 3.3, we never could know. But if the volumes look strong, and to me, it appears like [we're on a run it] may last for a long time.

所以我很欣賞這個評論。你的問題非常合理。我希望我們能得到更有見地的答案。我們一直在關注這件事，並說我們損失了四分之一，這真是太神奇了，但我們還是會繼續來，我想我會繼續來新加坡。當我們擊敗客戶時，不同的問題是 3.7 或 3.3，我們永遠無法知道。但如果交易量看起來很強勁，對我來說，這種勢頭似乎可能會持續很長一段時間。

Got you. And then maybe a follow-up. Formula One is pushed in the fourth quarter in Singapore this year versus September last. What's the right way to think about whether or not the rest of the building can absorb that normal activity? Or is -- do you view that as a bit of a headwind?

明白了。然後也許會進行後續行動。與去年 9 月相比，今年一級方程式賽車在新加坡的比賽被推遲到了第四季度。如何正確思考建築物的其他部分是否能夠吸收這種正常活動？或者——您是否認為這有點不利？

Formula One is always a great event for Singapore. It's something that we fully support. We're an integral part of and we always welcome it. And I think our patients really enjoy it. A lot of visitors show up at Singapore because of this event. And for us, whenever it happens, it's great.

一級方程式賽車對新加坡來說一直是個盛事。我們全力支持此事。我們是其中不可或缺的一部分，我們總是歡迎它。我認為我們的病人真的很喜歡它。很多遊客因為這個活動而來到新加坡。對我們來說，無論何時發生，都是很棒的。

So if it's third quarter, fourth quarter, we're happy with it. We do our best to support the initiative around it because we think it's great for Singapore. It's great for Marina Bay Sands and the type of customers that show up are always very helpful. But in terms of being able to accommodate customers in Q3 or during Golden Week with Formula One, it's fine. Either way it works.

所以如果是第三、第四季，我們會感到滿意。我們盡力支持這項倡議，因為我們認為這對新加坡來說非常有益。這對濱海灣金沙來說很棒，而且出現的顧客總是非常樂於助人。但就能夠在第三季或一級方程式黃金週期間接待客戶而言，這是可以的。無論哪種方式都可以。

Understood. Thanks a lot.

明白了。多謝。

Chad Beynon, Macquarie Research.

麥格理研究部的 Chad Beynon。

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. Wanted to go back to Macau, Rob. You mentioned 2.7 as the near-term North Star and hopefully, that eventually moves kind of back to 3. But wanted to approach it from a margin standpoint. So Londoner had nice improvement in margin. The collective was down 80 basis points, as you guys called out. And the flow-through was obviously negative here for the quarter.

嗨，下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。想回澳門，羅布。您提到 2.7 是近期的北極星，希望它最終能回到 3。但想從利潤的角度來處理這個問題。因此，倫敦人的利潤率有了很大的提高。正如你們所說的那樣，集體下跌了 80 個基點。本季的流通量明顯為負。

But does margin matter as much in terms of how you're thinking about running the business or given some of the commentary that we've spoken about with promos, maybe we shouldn't have a margin target in mind just because of simple inflation and different approach towards promo? Or is that still the case to get to closer to a 40% margin long term? Thanks.

但是，就您如何經營業務而言，利潤率是否同樣重要？或者，考慮到我們對促銷活動的一些評論，也許我們不應該僅僅因為簡單的通貨膨脹和不同的促銷方式而考慮利潤率目標？或者說，從長期來看，利潤率是否仍接近 40%？謝謝。

So I think the key thing about Macau is that there's a very large fixed-cost base in our property portfolio. And so our margin is going to be determined by how much revenue we can push through these buildings. And so if our promotional activity, if our customer reinvestment makes us a little less competitive and we have less revenue, our margins will be impacted.

因此，我認為澳門的關鍵在於我們的房地產投資組合中有一個非常大的固定成本基礎。因此，我們的利潤將取決於我們能透過這些建築獲得多少收入。因此，如果我們的促銷活動、客戶再投資使我們的競爭力下降、收入減少，我們的利潤率就會受到影響。

So I think for us, ex-old, right, if you ignore the impacts of old, if we continue to have the best properties where we have great offerings for our customers and great experiences and then we reinvest in a more market-competitive way, we think we'll still have the ability to drive revenue at an import rate margin. And so if you look at the margin regime where we are today, that's okay for now. But as we grow revenues to grow the business, over time, there might be some opportunity for some upside. But I don't think we're looking at a specific EBITDA margin in terms of our reinvestment guidance.

所以我認為，對我們來說，除了舊的，對吧，如果你忽略舊的的影響，如果我們繼續擁有最好的資產，為我們的客戶提供優質的服務和良好的體驗，然後我們以更具市場競爭力的方式進行再投資，我們認為我們仍然有能力以進口率利潤率來推動收入。因此，如果你看一下我們今天的保證金制度，你會發現目前情況還不錯。但隨著我們收入的成長和業務的成長，隨著時間的推移，可能會有一些上升的機會。但我不認為我們在再投資指導方面考慮具體的 EBITDA 利潤率。

Our reinvestment guidance is going to be based on the market and hopefully, we'll grow revenues based on our product portfolio. We put a whole lot of new products into the market this last quarter. right? The Londoner Grand is a whole new building. And the casino performance there has been great. We have tremendous slot performance coming out of the Londoner total portfolio. And I think for us, as you heard Grant, as you heard Rob mentioned before, we have some work to do.

我們的再投資指導將以市場為基礎，希望我們能夠根據我們的產品組合增加收入。上個季度我們向市場推出了大量新產品，對嗎？倫敦大酒店是一棟全新的建築。那裡的賭場業績非常出色。在倫敦人的整體投資組合中，我們的老虎機表現十分出色。我認為對我們來說，正如格蘭特你所聽到的，正如羅布之前所提到的，我們有一些工作要做。

That being said, we think there's opportunities in the Parisian. We think there's opportunities in the Four Seasons and even downtown at the Sands we think there's opportunity. So while we keep pushing the Venetian and the Londoner, our segmentation has different reinvestment requirements. And we're going to keep looking at it and evaluating the segmentation across the different properties to ensure that we can optimize for revenue growth and cash flow growth. And so we're not targeting a specific EBITDA margin, but will leave over time as we have the opportunity to grow revenues, the margin will follow.

話雖如此，我們認為巴黎仍有機會。我們認為四季酒店乃至金沙市中心都有機會。因此，雖然我們繼續推動威尼斯人和倫敦人的發展，但我們的細分市場有不同的再投資要求。我們將繼續關注並評估不同資產之間的細分，以確保我們能夠優化收入成長和現金流成長。因此，我們的目標不是特定的 EBITDA 利潤率，而是隨著時間的推移，隨著我們有機會增加收入，利潤率也會增加。

So margin does matter, but EBITDA matters more. And in any business, you've got to be sensitive to the environment you're playing in, and the environment there has changed. And we weren't excited [with the ups]. So now we only adjust that coupled with our strong assets and you add that to a growing resurging in GGR, I think you have a good formula.

因此利潤率確實很重要，但 EBITDA 更重要。在任何產業中，你都必須對你所處的環境保持敏感，而環境已經改變了。我們並不興奮[有起伏]。因此，現在我們只需結合我們強大的資產進行調整，再加上博彩總收入的不斷增長，我認為你就有一個很好的公式。

But, obviously, we always want to be margin sensitive, but we want to be EBITDA sensitive too. So it's a combination -- it's not a simple question to answer, each building performs differently.

但是，顯然，我們始終希望對利潤率敏感，但我們也希望對 EBITDA 敏感。所以這是一個組合——這不是一個簡單的問題，因為每棟建築的表現都不同。

Great. Thank you, both. And then the news that we've seen in terms of the movement from the Thai cabinet withdrawing the bill at this point for legalized casinos, I guess there's probably no update from your end because we're probably reading the same information. But anything to talk about there or any other potential developments that you guys plan to pursue outside of the two markets that you're in? Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝你們兩位。然後，我們看到有關泰國內閣撤回合法賭場法案的消息，我想你們那邊可能沒有最新消息，因為我們可能讀到的是相同的資訊。但是有什麼好談的嗎？或者你們計劃在你們所在的兩個市場之外尋求的任何其他潛在發展？謝謝。

II think we're constantly looking at new development growth opportunities [in these] jurisdictions. We're evaluating them as they come along. It's something that we feel like in Thailand, there's a great opportunity there. If the legal framework and the regulatory framework is appropriate, it's something we'll definitely look at and consider. As of right now, as you just mentioned, there's not a whole lot to think about.

我認為我們一直在尋找這些司法管轄區內新的發展成長機會。我們正在對它們進行評估。我們感覺泰國有很大的機會。如果法律框架和監管框架合適，我們肯定會研究和考慮。就目前而言，正如您剛才提到的，還沒有太多需要考慮的事情。

Thailand is the greatest opportunity in Asia or what's left of those countries. But it's so hard to tell [what's happening] day-to-day, it changes. But it certainly is for anybody in our industry, a very important place if it ever actually come to fruition.

泰國是亞洲或亞洲剩餘國家中最大的機會。但很難說出每天發生的事情，因為它正在改變。但對於我們這個行業的任何人來說，如果它真的能夠實現，那無疑是一個非常重要的領域。

Thanks. Appreciate it.

謝謝。非常感謝。

Lizzie Dove, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的莉齊‧多夫 (Lizzie Dove)。

Hi there. Thanks for taking the question, You mentioned earlier that the goal of the Londoner is to move towards the goal of $1 billion in annualized EBITDA. Curious, timing of that, how much more reinvestment kind of promotions are needed to get there and more so just the cadence to get there?

你好呀。感謝您提出這個問題，您之前提到，倫敦人的目標是實現 10 億美元的年度 EBITDA。好奇的是，就時間而言，需要多少再投資類型的促銷才能達到目標，以及達到目標的節奏？

I think we only just started ramping up the property. I mean, if you think about the Londoner Grand, it really only fully launched in May onwards. So we're still in the very early innings of the ramp-up in Londoner. And we're already running close to $800 million annualized. So we do see opportunity to yield higher and higher across all of the hotels in Londoner Macau, but especially Londoner Grand.

我認為我們才剛開始擴大房地產市場。我的意思是，如果你想想倫敦大酒店，它實際上直到五月才全面推出。因此，我們仍處於倫敦人崛起的初期階段。我們的年營業額已經接近 8 億美元。因此，我們確實看到了倫敦人澳門所有酒店（尤其是倫敦人大酒店）獲得越來越高收益的機會。

I think Patrick just referenced there, we're seeing exceptional slog in [ETG] performance out of Londoner already, way surpassing what this building was achieving in 2019. And I think we're seeing high levels of non-rolling table performance as well. And so as all these segments continue to grow, and we put higher quality customers into the suites and the rooms, we will get to that $1 billion annualized that Rob referenced. That's the goal. We don't know exact timing, but we're pretty much only at the very start of the ramp-up of the property.

我想帕特里克剛才提到過，我們已經看到倫敦人在 [ETG] 方面表現出色，遠遠超過了這座建築在 2019 年的成就。我認為我們也看到了高水準的非滾動表性能。因此，隨著所有這些細分市場的持續成長，我們將為套房和房間提供更高品質的客戶，我們將實現 Rob 提到的年化 10 億美元目標。這就是目標。我們不知道確切的時間，但我們基本上才剛開始推進這個產業。

Got it. That makes sense. And then just going back to the promotionality side of things. Obviously, it's something you've been kind of ramping up over the last couple of months. I'm curious what you've seen from other players and how the competitive environment has involved whether they've responded with same level of promotionality, whether there's been irrationality at all in the market. Just what you're kind of broadly seeing in the response to that?

知道了。這很有道理。然後回到促銷方面。顯然，這是你在過去幾個月裡一直在努力的事情。我很好奇你從其他參與者那裡看到了什麼，以及競爭環境如何，他們是否以相同程度的促銷做出回應，市場是否存在非理性行為。您對此的反應大致是什麼？

The market continues to be very competitive. I don't think the intensity is dropping at all. Each operator is fighting for a greater share of the pie. And the main difference, of course, this quarter is that we also are in the mix now in terms of reinvestment levels back to the customer. And we see the response and we see the initial signs are encouraging. And of course, is more biased towards the high-end segments where the levels of customer investment is shifting the players back to our properties or we're gaining new customers, especially through the Londoner.

市場競爭仍十分激烈。我認為強度根本沒有下降。各運營商都在爭奪更大的份額。當然，本季的主要區別在於，我們在向客戶再投資的水平方面也處於混合狀態。我們看到了反應，我們看到了令人鼓舞的初步跡象。當然，我們更偏向高端市場，客戶的投資水平正在將玩家轉移回我們的酒店，或者我們正在獲得新客戶，尤其是透過倫敦人。

So that process will continue and we'll continue to evaluate. But we don't expect the competitive dynamics to ease off. I think that will continue to be intense. But of course, a high level of GGR and acceleration in the market growth will help all of us, like Rob mentioned, that's still the single biggest factor in determining the results of not just outperformance but of the whole market.

因此該過程將繼續，我們也將繼續評估。但我們不認為競爭態勢會減弱。我認為這種緊張局勢將會持續下去。但當然，高水準的博彩總收入和市場成長的加速將對我們所有人都有幫助，就像 Rob 提到的那樣，這仍然是決定業績甚至整個市場結果的最大因素。

Got it thank you. Thank you.

明白了，謝謝。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

George Choi, Citigroup.

花旗集團的喬治崔 (George Choi)。

Thank you very much for taking my question. So over the past several months, we've seen you guys took the side bets from Marina Bay Sands and introduced them to your Macau operations. And just recently, we saw you guys added a progressive jackpot to your Baccarat games in Macau. And we believe that those also run in from Marina Bay Sands Basins. So my question is, do you still have any best practices at Marina Bay Sands that your Macau operations can learn from?

非常感謝您回答我的問題。因此，在過去的幾個月裡，我們看到你們從濱海灣金沙獲得了附帶賭注，並將其引入澳門的業務中。就在最近，我們看到你們在澳門的百家樂遊戲中增加了累積獎金。我們相信這些水也是從濱海灣金沙盆地流入的。所以我的問題是，濱海灣金沙酒店是否還有任何最佳實踐可供澳門的營運借鏡？

It's work in progress, George. Obviously, we trade mission back and forth based on best practices, and we saw a lot of extent in Singapore with side bets and I think we'll see it in Macau and we continue, as you know, ahead of us, you're still on top of this, it's [ripened], but congratulations. I think the truth is we're learning as we go. I'm a firm believer that these markets aren't that different in terms of customer activity. And I think in the end, you'll see a lifetime result in Macau in time.

這項工作正在進行中，喬治。顯然，我們根據最佳實踐來回交換任務，我們在新加坡看到了很多附帶賭注，我想我們會在澳門看到它，我們會繼續，如你所知，在我們前面，你仍然處於領先地位，它已經成熟了，但祝賀你。我認為事實是我們在邊走邊學。我堅信這些市場在客戶活動方面並沒有太大差異。我認為最終你會在澳門看到一生的成果。

It's newer to Macau market, [it's] no longer approved there. But we're really confident that this new era of smart tables, side bets which is increasing whole percentage for everyone, all of our competitors as well, is highly positive for the industry and exciting for the customers. So time will tell how long it takes to see the increased hold percentage and how much they move towards side bets.

它對澳門市場來說比較新，已不再獲得批准。但我們確實有信心，這個智慧賭桌、邊注的新時代正在為每個人以及我們所有的競爭對手提高整體百分比，這對行業來說是非常積極的，對客戶來說是令人興奮的。因此，時間將告訴我們需要多長時間才能看到持有率的增加以及他們在多大程度上轉向邊注。

But we're big believers in this. We're trying to be very innovative, as you alluded to in your comments, and how we view the markets and gambling. It's changing every day. We want to be leaders in that evolving process.

但我們對此堅信不疑。正如您在評論中提到的那樣，我們正在努力創新，並了解我們如何看待市場和賭博。它每天都在變化。我們希望成為這項發展過程的領導者。

Thank you very much for the great color. I'll jump back to the queue. Thank you.

非常感謝您提供的如此美麗的色彩。我將重新回到隊列。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

David Katz, Jefferies.

傑富瑞的戴維·卡茨。

Afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to start with Singapore where there's obviously significant investment coming for further expansion. And things have started to finally really go well in the core building and, frankly, you've been waiting for it for a few years. I want to make sure when there isn't construction disruption or what, if anything, just to make sure could sort of impact the momentum that you have there in Singapore?

大家下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。我想從新加坡開始，那裡顯然有大量投資用於進一步擴張。核心建設的一切終於開始真正順利進行，坦白說，你已經等待這一刻好幾年了。我想確保不會出現施工中斷或其他情況，以確保不會對您在新加坡的發展勢頭產生影響？

So just a couple of things. The site is adjacent to Marina Bay Sands. So in the renovation work we did at Marina Bay Sands in the prior years that you referenced, it was actually an actively unoperated building while we were doing it. So it's a little bit like changing your tires in the middle of an F1 race while you're driving. And so we did that.

僅舉幾例。該地點毗鄰濱海灣金沙。因此，在您提到的前幾年我們在濱海灣金沙酒店進行的翻新工程中，我們實際上是在進行這項工程時，將其作為一座未投入運營的建築。這有點像在 F1 比賽中途駕駛時更換輪胎。所以我們這麼做了。

And so the good news is the building is in terms of suite renovation, the interior is complete, and we're starting to see the benefits of that and the results this quarter. our expansion, and we actually had the groundbreaking last week, Dr. [Wong] was there, Rob was there, Grant was there, I was there, some other members of the LVS management team with us. And most importantly, the Prime Minister and the Minister of [indiscernible] responsible for our portfolio was there. And it was an amazing groundbreaking and we're very happy to have the government support, and we're very fortunate to be in Singapore.

因此，好消息是，建築物的套房裝修和內部裝修已經完工，我們將在本季看到其帶來的好處和成果。我們的擴張，實際上我們上週就舉行了奠基儀式，[Wong] 博士在場，Rob 在場，Grant 在場，我也在場，LVS 管理團隊的其他一些成員也和我們在一起。最重要的是，總理和負責我們事務的[音頻不清晰]部長都在場。這是一個令人驚嘆的開創性成就，我們很高興得到政府的支持，我們很幸運能夠在新加坡開展業務。

And so this is a very important complex for tourism for both leisure and business tourism in the market. And for us, any disruption is something we take really seriously. And so the good news is we have a little bit more than [7 acres site] directly next door and it's all on site. And so when we build this, ultimately, there will be connections back to renovate [bands]. But during the construction, it's not going to impact our ability to conduct operations.

因此，這對於休閒旅遊和商務旅遊市場來說是一個非常重要的綜合體。對我們來說，任何干擾都是我們非常重視的事情。好消息是，我們隔壁就有一塊面積略大於 [7 英畝] 的土地，而且所有東西都在現場。所以當我們建造這個的時候，最終會有連接需要重新修復[樂隊]。但在施工期間，不會影響我們進行行動的能力。

So unlike the renovation we just did, this is something separate in the state. And then we'll bridge over to it during the construction process, but it won't be disruptive.

因此，與我們剛剛進行的翻修不同，這是該州的一項獨立工程。然後我們會在施工過程中將其橋接起來，但不會造成乾擾。

Perfect. And if I can ask one quick follow-up on the strategic evolution in Macau. You talked about reinvestment rates. But I wanted to ask about credit and whether that's a tool that you would be using and how that starts to show up. Does it sort of show up maybe later on? And on the cost side of the equation, is there any of that in there that we should be keeping our eye out for?

完美的。我可以快速問一下有關澳門戰略演變的問題嗎？您談到了再投資率。但我想問一下有關信用的問題，以及這是否是您將要使用的工具，以及它是如何開始出現的。它可能稍後才會出現嗎？那麼從成本角度來看，我們是否應該關注其中的一些因素呢？

No. I think in terms of the credit base play is a very small portion of our overall GGR traditionally. And we've been doing this for two decades. We extend credit to some premium patrons in the direct rolling programs. But it has been a consistent practice of ours and we are very experienced in it. But it's not a significant part of the GGR.

不。我認為，就信用基礎而言，遊戲傳統上只占我們整體博彩總收入的一小部分。我們已經這樣做了二十年。我們向直接滾動計劃中的一些高級客戶提供信貸。但這是我們一貫的做法，我們對此非常有經驗。但它並不是GGR的重要組成部分。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

John DeCree, CBRE.

世邦魏理仕的 John DeCree。

Hi everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to ask one about your retail mall portfolio, particularly retail sales. We're seeing a little bit of acceleration in Mainland China. It looks like in Macau, you've seen a little bit of lift in the 2Q as well. We got a lot of questions about the sustainability of GGR growth, which you fielded already today. But curious if you could give us some thoughts on what you're seeing in the retail mall, particularly on the luxury side of things.

大家好。感謝您回答我的問題。我想問一下你們的零售商場投資組合，特別是零售銷售狀況。我們看到中國大陸的成長略有加速。看起來在澳門，第二季也出現了一些成長。我們收到了很多關於博彩總收入成長可持續性的問題，您今天已經回答了這些問題。但我很好奇您是否可以告訴我們您對零售商場所看到的東西的一些看法，特別是在奢侈品方面。

Thanks for the question. The retail mall tenant sales are starting to see a good recovery in the second quarter. So we were in positive tenant sales year-on-year basis. We've grown by about 10% across the retail mall portfolio in Macau. And within that, Luxury is still relatively weaker versus the rest of the portfolio.

謝謝你的提問。零售商場租戶銷售額在第二季開始出現良好復甦。因此，我們的租戶銷售額較去年同期呈正成長。我們在澳門的零售商場組合成長了約 10%。其中，奢侈品板塊相對於其他投資組合而言仍然相對較弱。

But we did start to see, within the quarter, signs that even the luxury sales were improving partly because also we have been introducing some pretty amazing flagship stores in some of the key luxury brands in the portfolio. So you'll continue to see that being a feature of the Four Seasons more into the beginning of 2026.

但在本季度，我們確實開始看到一些跡象，表明奢侈品銷售額也在改善，部分原因是我們在投資組合中的一些主要奢侈品牌中引入了一些相當令人驚嘆的旗艦店。因此，到 2026 年初，您仍會繼續看到這一點成為四季酒店的特色。

So there are some improvements that we are making ourselves that should help to lift the luxury sales portion of the mall. But overall, we're happy to see that the mall is back in a positive sales territory, double-digit growth in the second quarter compared to last year.

因此，我們正在進行一些改進，這應該有助於提升商場的奢侈品銷售份額。但總體而言，我們很高興看到商場的銷售恢復正成長，第二季與去年相比實現了兩位數的成長。

Great. Thanks, Grant. Maybe if I could follow up with one big-picture question about visitation. So visitation from Mainland ex-Guangdong, which you highlighted in your slide deck is kind of sluggish to recovery relative to the day trippers in the Bay Area. Given your room base in Macau, it seems like this is probably a pretty big opportunity. So curious your views if there's an opportunity and what can be done to kind of help Macau start to penetrate deeper into Mainland and see some of that visitation outside of Guangdong and come back?

偉大的。謝謝，格蘭特。也許我可以跟進一個關於探視的大問題。因此，您在幻燈片中強調的來自廣東以外大陸的遊客數量相對於灣區的一日遊遊客數量而言恢復得比較緩慢。考慮到您在澳門的房間基礎，這似乎是一個相當大的機會。我很好奇您的看法，如果有機會，可以做些什麼來幫助澳門更深入地滲透到內地，並吸引一些來自廣東以外的遊客回來？

It's a great question. I think Dan and his deck has the breakout of the province's visitation as compared to 2019 is on page 20 of the deck. I think what you see is, yes, you're right, overall, excluding Guangdong, the recovery of visitation still lagging. But within that, it's very uneven. So some of the wealthier coastal provinces and the major cities, we are seeing recovery beyond the 2019 visitation levels and some of the other provinces are lagging much more significantly.

這是一個很好的問題。我認為丹和他的簡報的第 20 頁顯示了該省與 2019 年相比的訪問量突破。我認為您看到的是，是的，您說得對，總體而言，除廣東外，遊客數量的恢復仍然滯後。但其中卻非常不平衡。因此，我們看到一些較富裕的沿海省份和主要城市的遊客人數正在復蘇，超過了 2019 年的水平，而其他一些省份的滯後情況則更為嚴重。

So I agree it is an opportunity. And I think Macau and the operators are continuously doing the destination marketing roadshows across the different parts of Mainland China as well as overseas and that will continue. Transportation is continuing to improve in terms of pricing and connectivity. And of course, the availability of hotel rooms and, of course, we've been adding high-quality inventory as have some other operators as well. So we expect all of those factors to drive better penetration in the non-Guangdong visitation numbers, especially helping to drive that overnight visitation, which is clearly the higher spending segment.

所以我同意這是一個機會。我認為澳門及其營運商正在中國大陸不同地區以及海外持續進行目的地行銷路演，並且這種做法還將繼續下去。交通運輸在價格和連通性方面正在不斷改善。當然，還有飯店房間的供應情況，當然，我們和其他一些營運商一樣，也一直在增加高品質的庫存。因此，我們預計所有這些因素將推動非廣東遊客數量的更好滲透，特別是有助於推動過夜遊客數量，這顯然是較高消費的部分。

But that said, the overall hotel inventory in Macau is not significantly growing. So that will continue to add as a constraint on the overall overnight visitation. But I think what you see is a continued improvement in the quality of the tourism coming to stay overnight in Macau.

但話雖如此，澳門的整體飯店庫存並沒有顯著成長。因此，這將繼續對整體過夜遊客數量造成限制。但我認為，你看到的是，來澳門過夜的旅遊品質正在持續提高。

That's really helpful. Thanks a lot, Grant. Thanks, all.

這真的很有幫助。非常感謝，格蘭特。謝謝大家。

Steve Wieczynski, Stifel.

史蒂費爾公司的史蒂夫‧維辛斯基 (Steve Wieczynski)。

Yeah hey, guys, good afternoon. Most of my questions have been answered. So just one for me. So Rob or Patrick, I mean, as we think about Singapore -- and Patrick, you mentioned you guys just started construction on IR2. But based on what you've witnessed over the last six months, eight months coming out of IR1 and the kind of the crazy numbers that you guys have been putting up over there out of IR1. Has that changed your internal return assumptions for IR2 at this point?

是的，嘿，夥計們，下午好。我的大部分問題都已得到解答。所以對我來說只有一個。所以 Rob 或 Patrick，我的意思是，當我們想到新加坡時——Patrick，你提到你們剛開始 IR2 的建設。但根據你們在過去六個月、八個月中見證的 IR1 表現以及你們在 IR1 中得到的瘋狂數據。這是否改變了您對 IR2 的內部報酬假設？

I don't think so. Look, I think we generally have a view that Marina Bay Sands in Singapore is an investment-driven story. And so the more we invest in high-quality assets, the better service levels we have, the more we're going to have pricing power, the more we're going to be able to differentiate our products and the more high-value tourism we'll be able to bring it. And because of that, we'll get more revenue, we get more EBITDA.

我不這麼認為。瞧，我認為我們普遍認為新加坡濱海灣金沙是一個投資驅動的故事。因此，我們對優質資產的投資越多，我們的服務水準就越好，我們的定價能力就越強，我們的產品就越能實現差異化，我們就能帶來更高價值的旅遊業。正因為如此，我們將獲得更多收入，獲得更多 EBITDA。

So you're seeing that happen this quarter in Singapore. It's the full product -- the full power of our suite products. the full power of our food and beverage offerings, our [MICE] offerings. Everything is really coming together, all the entertainment we do, a high level of service. But we have a great premium mass customer base there. Look, the shopping, all the other things that we've added -- it's really a very unique lifestyle program that we offer to people. And so for us, IR2 is just an extension of that.

所以你會看到這種情況在本季在新加坡發生。這是完整的產品——我們的套房產品的全部功能、我們的食品和飲料產品以及我們的 [MICE] 產品的全部功能。一切都真的融合在一起了，我們所做的所有娛樂活動，都是高水準的服務。但我們在那裡擁有龐大的優質大眾客戶群。你看，購物，以及我們添加的所有其他東西——這確實是我們為人們提供的非常獨特的生活方式計劃。因此對我們來說，IR2 只是它的延伸。

Look, our goal is to have the best hotel in the world there. To have the best gaming experience, the best food and beverage and then have this live entertainment venue, the likes of which we've never had before in terms of to be able to drive customer visitation. So we feel very strongly about this. It's a $6 billion investment, $2 billion of premium that we have to pay to the government and we feel very strongly about the quality of that investment and where it can go.

看，我們的目標是在那裡建造世界上最好的酒店。擁有最好的遊戲體驗、最好的食物和飲料，然後擁有這個我們以前從未有過的現場娛樂場所，以便能夠吸引顧客光臨。所以我們對此感受非常強烈。這是一項 60 億美元的投資，其中 20 億美元是我們必須向政府支付的保費，我們對這筆投資的品質和用途非常重視。

So adjustment in models is not where we're at now. It's a very long way away. We've got a couple of years before it opens. But in our mind, this quarter, and actually to be fair, what we'll be seeing in the quarters leading up to this in terms of the high quality of patron that we have just validates the fact that we feel very strongly this will be a high-quality investment. And so while we haven't adjusted our models in any formal way, I think this just validates long term in our minds, the quality of the market and the strength of Singapore.

因此，我們現在還不需要對模型進行調整。路途十分遙遠。我們還有幾年的時間才開放。但在我們看來，本季度，實際上公平地說，我們將在接下來的幾個季度中看到高品質的顧客，這證實了我們非常強烈地認為這將是一項高品質的投資。因此，雖然我們還沒有以任何正式的方式調整我們的模型，但我認為從長遠來看，這證明了市場的品質和新加坡的實力。

Okay, got you. Appreciate that, Patrick.

好的，明白了。非常感謝，派崔克。

Thanks, Steve.

謝謝，史蒂夫。

Thank you. That completes our Q&A session. Everyone, this concludes today's event. You may disconnect at this time and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation.

謝謝。我們的問答環節到此結束。各位，今天的活動就到這裡了。現在您可以斷開連接並享受美好的一天。我們感謝您的參與。