拉斯維加斯金沙集團 (LVS) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands First Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，美好的一天，歡迎參加金沙 2024 年第一季財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）

It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at Sands. Sir, the floor is yours.

現在我很高興請金沙集團投資者關係資深副總裁 Daniel Briggs 先生發言。先生，地板是你的了。

Thank you, Paul. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO; Patrick Dumont, our President and COO; Dr. Wilfred Wong, Executive Vice Chairman of Sands China; and Grant Chum, CEO and President of Sands China and EVP of Asia Operations.

謝謝你，保羅。我們的董事長兼執行長 Rob Goldstein 參加了今天的電話會議； Patrick Dumont，我們的總裁兼營運長；金沙中國執行副主席王英偉博士；金沙中國行政總裁兼總裁兼亞洲營運執行副總裁Grant Chum。

Today's conference call will contain forward-looking statements. We will be making these statements under the safe harbor provision of federal securities laws. The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward-looking statements. In addition, we will discuss non-GAAP measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measures are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We will refer to that presentation during the call.

今天的電話會議將包含前瞻性陳述。我們將根據聯邦證券法的安全港條款做出這些聲明。本公司的實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述中所反映的結果有重大差異。此外，我們也將討論非公認會計原則措施。我們的新聞稿中包含了與最具可比性的 GAAP 財務指標的調整表。我們已經在我們的網站上發布了收益報告。我們將在電話會議期間參考該簡報。

Finally, for the Q&A session, we ask those interested to please pose 1 question, 1 follow-up so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. This presentation is being recorded.

最後，對於問答環節，我們要求有興趣的人提出 1 個問題，1 後續行動，以便我們可以讓每個有興趣的人都有機會參與。該簡報正在錄製中。

I'll now turn the call over to Rob.

我現在將把電話轉給羅布。

Thanks, Dan, and thanks for joining us today. The Macao market continues to grow as it has in each of the past 5 quarters. Since the reopening in early 2023, the annual run rate of the market has grown every quarter from $17 billion in Q1 of last year, to $22 billion, then $24 billion and $26 billion, now reaching $28 billion in annualized gaming revenue.

謝謝丹，謝謝您今天加入我們。澳門市場與過去五個季度一樣持續成長。自2023 年初重新開放以來，市場的年運行率每季都在成長，從去年第一季的170 億美元增至220 億美元，然後是240 億美元和260 億美元，目前年化遊戲收入達到280 億美元。

We remain confident, [supremely] confident in the future growth of the Macao market. I have said in the past, Macao market will grow to $30 billion, then $35 billion, then $40 million and beyond in the years ahead. (inaudible).

我們對澳門市場未來的成長仍然充滿信心、非常有信心。我過去曾說過，未來幾年，澳門市場將成長至300億美元、350億美元、4,000萬美元，甚至更多。 （聽不清楚）。

We remain equally confident in our business strategy to invest in both the quality and the scale of our market-leading assets in Macao. Our capital investment programs ensure that we will continue to be the market leader in years ahead. Our investments position us to grow faster than the market over the long term to grow our share of EBITDA in the market and to generate industry-leading returns on invested capital.

我們對投資於澳門市場領先資產的品質和規模的業務策略同樣充滿信心。我們的資本投資計劃確保我們在未來幾年繼續成為市場領導者。我們的投資使我們能夠在長期內以快於市場的速度成長，從而提高我們的 EBITDA 在市場中的份額，並產生領先業界的投資資本回報。

Turning to our current financial results in Macao, we delivered a solid result for the quarter despite the disruption of our ongoing capital investment programs.

談到我們目前在澳門的財務業績，儘管我們正在進行的資本投資計劃受到干擾，但我們在本季度取得了穩健的業績。

SCL continues to lead the market in gaming and non-gaming revenue and most importantly, in the market share of EBITDA. Because of our market-leading investments, we will capture high-value, high-margin tourism over the long run. We have a unique competitive position in terms of scale, quality and diversity of product offerings.

SCL 在遊戲和非遊戲收入方面繼續領先市場，最重要的是在 EBITDA 市場份額方面。由於我們市場領先的投資，從長遠來看，我們將抓住高價值、高利潤的旅遊業。我們在產品供應的規模、品質和多樣性方面擁有獨特的競爭地位。

Upon completion of the second phase of the Londoner and our Cotai Arena redevelopment program, our product advance will be more substantial than ever.

倫敦人第二期及金光綜藝館重建計畫完成後，我們的產品進步將比以往任何時候都更加顯著。

Turning to Singapore. We delivered a record quarter. We believe it's a record for the industry. The team has done an extraordinary job, and this is what happens when a superior product is located in the proper market. Our financial results in Singapore reflect the impact of our capital investment programs and our service capabilities. The appeal of Singapore as a tourism destination in the robust entertainment and lifestyle event calendar also contribute to the growth at (inaudible). As we complete the balance of our investment programs, there will be a lot more runway for growth in the future.

轉向新加坡。我們實現了創紀錄的季度業績。我們相信這是該行業的記錄。團隊做得非常出色，這就是當優質產品位於適當的市場時會發生的情況。我們在新加坡的財務表現反映了我們的資本投資計畫和服務能力的影響。新加坡作為旅遊目的地在豐富的娛樂和生活方式活動日曆中的吸引力也有助於（聽不清楚）的成長。當我們完成投資計畫的平衡時，未來將有更多的成長空間。

Thanks for joining us today. I'll turn it over to Patrick for more detail.

感謝您今天加入我們。我會把它交給派崔克了解更多細節。

Thanks, Rob. Macao EBITDA was $610 million. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been higher by $31 million. When adjusted for lower-than-expected hold in the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin would have been 34.4% or up 380 basis points compared to the first quarter of 2023. This highlights our focus on cost discipline and profitability.

謝謝，羅布。澳門 EBITDA 為 6.1 億美元。如果我們按預期執行滾動計劃，我們的 EBITDA 將增加 3,100 萬美元。在根據滾動業務低於預期的情況進行調整後，我們的 EBITDA 利潤率為 34.4%，比 2023 年第一季增長 380 個基點。

The ongoing capital investment programs at the Londoner and at the Cotai Arena had an impact on our results this quarter. The Cotai Arena was closed for renovation in January of this year. After the significant reinvestment and renovation, the arena is expected to reopen in November.

倫敦人和金光綜藝館正在進行的資本投資計劃對我們本季的業績產生了影響。金光綜藝館於今年一月關閉進行翻新工程。經過大規模的再投資和翻新後，該場館預計將於 11 月重新開放。

In terms of the second phase of the Londoner, we have now commenced the room renovation on the (inaudible). We plan the completion of the first tower by year-end and the second tower by Golden Week in May of 2025. The renovation of the casino on the Sheraton side of the Londoner will commence in May of this year with the reopening schedule for December of 2024.

就倫敦人第二期而言，我們現已開始（聽不清楚）房間裝修。我們計劃在年底前完成第一座塔樓的建設，並在2025 年5 月黃金周前完成第二座塔樓的建設。 12 月重新開放。

While there will be ongoing disruption from these capital projects, as these products come online between the end of '24 and the first half of '25, our competitive position will be stronger than ever. The scale, quality and diversity of product will be better than we have ever offered before. They will be unmatched in the market.

雖然這些資本項目將持續造成乾擾，但隨著這些產品在 24 年底至 25 上半年之間上線，我們的競爭地位將比以往任何時候都更強大。產品的規模、品質和多樣性將比我們以前提供的更好。他們將在市場上無與倫比。

Turning to Singapore. MBS' EBITDA came in at $597 million, an all-time record for the property and for the industry. Our strong results reflect the impact of high-quality investment and market-leading products.

轉向新加坡。 MBS 的 EBITDA 達到 5.97 億美元，創下了該地產和產業的歷史記錄。我們的強勁業績反映了高品質投資和市場領先產品的影響。

Had we held as expected in our Rolling Play segment, EBITDA would have been $77 million lower. Had we held as expected in the Rolling Play segment, MBS EBITDA margin would have been 49.1% or 180 basis points higher than in Q1 of 2023.

如果我們按預期保留 Rolling Play 業務，EBITDA 將會減少 7,700 萬美元。如果我們在 Rolling Play 領域保持預期，MBS EBITDA 利潤率將達到 49.1%，比 2023 年第一季高出 180 個基點。

We have now completed both Tower 1 and Tower 2 of the Marina Bay Sands hotel refurbishment. While we have substantially completed the original $1 billion CapEx program, we are still in initial stages of realizing the benefits of these new products.

我們現已完成濱海灣金沙酒店 1 號塔和 2 號塔的翻新工程。雖然我們已經基本完成了最初的 10 億美元資本支出計劃，但我們仍處於實現這些新產品優​​勢的初始階段。

We have now commenced the next phase of our capital investment program at Marina Bay Sands, the $750 million renovation that includes Tower 3. Tower 3 is scheduled to be completed by the second quarter of next year. This will support further growth in 2025 and beyond.

我們現已開始濱海灣金沙下一階段的資本投資計劃，即耗資 7.5 億美元的翻修工程，其中包括 3 號塔樓。這將支持 2025 年及以後的進一步成長。

Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders. We repurchased $450 million of LVS stock during the quarter. We also paid our recurring quarterly dividend. In addition, LVS has completed the previously announced purchase of $250 million of SCL stock, which increases the parent company's ownership interest in SCL to approximately 71%. We continue to see value in both repurchasing LVS stock and increasing our ownership interest in SCL. We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's capital return program to increase return to shareholders in the future.

轉向我們向股東返還資本的計劃。我們在本季回購了 4.5 億美元的 LVS 股票。我們也支付了經常性季度股利。此外，LVS 還完成了先前宣布的價值 2.5 億美元的 SCL 股票收購，這使得母公司在 SCL 的所有權權益增加至約 71%。我們繼續認為回購 LVS 股票和增加我們在 SCL 的所有權權益都是有價值的。我們期待未來繼續利用公司的資本回報計劃來增加股東的回報。

Thanks again for joining the call today. Now let's take some questions.

再次感謝您今天加入通話。現在我們來回答一些問題。

(Operator Instructions) And the first question today is coming from Stephen Grambling from Morgan Stanley.

（操作員說明）今天的第一個問題來自摩根士丹利的史蒂芬‧格蘭布林（Stephen Grambling）。

You talked to the much higher for the market in Macao. But this quarter looks like the margin flow through and EBITDA actually went in the other direction. How should we be thinking about flow-through in Macao and operating expenses going forward in that market?

您談到了澳門市場的高得多。但本季看起來利潤流轉，而 EBITDA 實際上卻走向了另一個方向。我們應該如何考慮澳門的流量和該市場未來的營運費用？

Yes. I just want to say one thing before we turn it over to Grant. I think some of this has to do with Macao with some of the disruption that we experienced during the quarter. So when we take the arena in January, we lose the benefit of our entertainment programs during a peak period. That did have an impact.

是的。在我們把它交給格蘭特之前我只想說一件事。我認為這在一定程度上與澳門有關，因為我們在本季經歷了一些混亂。因此，當我們一月份進入競技場時，我們就失去了高峰期娛樂節目的好處。這確實產生了影響。

So when you look at our operation and compare to Q1 of last year, Q1 of last year where we're coming out of the pandemic, and it really took a while for visitation to get started again. This year, unfortunately, we did this to ourselves, we started renovating our arena. It's a very powerful asset. It has lots of entertainment, it went through the Chinese New Year period. And unfortunately, with some hotel rooms out and the arena out, we felt on the revenue side.

因此，當您查看我們的營運情況並與去年第一季進行比較時，去年第一季我們剛剛擺脫了大流行，確實需要一段時間才能再次開始探視。不幸的是，今年我們對自己做了這件事，我們開始翻新我們的競技場。這是一項非常強大的資產。它有很多娛樂活動，它度過了農曆新年期間。不幸的是，由於一些酒店房間和競技場都被淘汰，我們在收入方面感到了困難。

So as we've said before, as the market continues to grow, we will do well. We have the best product. We've invested the most in non-gaming assets. We have the most amenities to offer to our patrons and they're very high quality (inaudible) diversity of food and beverage, diversity in entertainment, which is very important. Unfortunately, we didn't have that tool this quarter in full swing. We only had the Londoner arena, which is good, but it can't compete with the Cotai Arena.

因此，正如我們之前所說，隨著市場的持續成長，我們會做得很好。我們有最好的產品。我們在非博彩資產上的投資最多。我們為顧客提供最多的便利設施，而且食物和飲料的品質非常高（聽不清楚），娛樂活動也很多樣化，這一點非常重要。不幸的是，本季度我們並沒有全面啟動該工具。我們只有倫敦人體育館，這很好，但無法與金光綜藝館競爭。

So I think for us, as the revenues continue to grow as you've seen in prior quarters, our margins will fall in line. And you see that in the Venetian as the revenues are where they need to be, the margins fall in line as well. So that's sort of the headline from the margin performance this quarter.

因此，我認為對我們來說，隨著收入繼續增長，就像你在前幾個季度看到的那樣，我們的利潤率將會下降。你會發現，威尼斯人的收入達到了應有的水平，利潤率也隨之下降。這就是本季利潤率表現的主要內容。

I do want to turn it over to Grant to see if he has any additional color.

我確實想把它交給格蘭特，看看他是否有任何額外的顏色。

Yes. Thanks, Patrick. Yes, I think the most important point is still the GGR is growing in the market. And I think if you look at our profitability, at this level of GGR I think we should be looking at low to mid-30s in operating margin -- EBITDA margin. And we're right at the high end of the range there.

是的。謝謝，派崔克。是的，我認為最重要的一點仍然是市場上的 GGR 正在成長。我認為，如果你看看我們的獲利能力，在這個 GGR 水準上，我認為我們的營業利潤率（EBITDA 利潤率）應該在 30 左右。我們正處於該範圍的高端。

Obviously, each quarter, the seasonality relating to different parts of the business, the revenue mix. So first quarter, I think, 34.4% in terms of the underlying margin is a really good number. I think 2024 is going to be one that is impacted by our capital works and the renovations that Patrick referenced also in his opening remarks. We have obviously started the hotel renovation in the first half of Sheraton. We're probably down about 500 -- 600 rooms in the first quarter on average in that hotel, but the number of keys that will be out of inventory will increase further in the second and third quarters.

顯然，每季的季節性都與業務的不同部分、收入組合有關。因此，我認為，第一季的基本利潤率為 34.4%，這是一個非常好的數字。我認為 2024 年將受到我們的基建工程和帕特里克在開場白中提到的翻新工程的影響。我們顯然在上半年就開始了喜來登酒店的裝修工作。第一季該飯店平均可能減少約 500 至 600 間客房，但第二季和第三季庫存不足的鑰匙數量將進一步增加。

And of course, Cotai Arena, as Patrick referenced, -- that's always been a core part of our content programming, content offering. And we were able to offer plenty of shows at the Londoner arena, but if you just compare just the share number shows that we had in the first quarter, we had 12 shows compared with the fourth quarter last year, we had 31 shows is a big difference. And obviously, in terms of capacity, there's a big difference. So the attendance per show, obviously, was much higher in the fourth quarter as well.

當然，正如派崔克所提到的，金光綜藝館一直是我們內容程式設計和內容提供的核心部分。我們能夠在倫敦人競技場提供大量的演出，但如果你只比較我們第一季的演出份額，我們有 12 場演出，與去年第四季相比，我們有 31 場演出。顯然，就容量而言，存在很大差異。因此，顯然，第四季度每場演出的出席人數也高得多。

So hopefully, that gives you some color in terms of the disruption that had on our business with the arena being closed for renovation. And as I said, the hotel renovation is ongoing, and you're going to see more keys out of inventory in the next couple of quarters.

因此，希望這能讓您了解由於體育場關閉整修而對我們的業務造成的干擾。正如我所說，酒店裝修正在進行中，在接下來的幾個季度中，您將看到更多鑰匙庫存不足。

Got it. And maybe one clarification. I guess, in the quarter, industry-wide, I'm not sure maybe I missed this in the presentation or I haven't seen the slides. But is -- do VIP actually grow faster than mass overall in the first quarter for the industry? And how are you thinking about base mass versus premium mass from here. I know you kind of touched on this a little bit, but would be curious about the industry-wide kind of thought process?

知道了。也許還有一個澄清。我想，在本季度，整個行業，我不確定我是否在演示中錯過了這一點，或者我還沒有看過幻燈片。但是，該行業第一季 VIP 的成長速度實際上比大眾的成長速度更快嗎？從這裡您如何考慮基礎品質與優質品質。我知道您對此有所了解，但對整個行業的思考過程感到好奇嗎？

Rob, should I take that?

羅布，我該接受嗎？

Yes, please (inaudible).

是的，請（聽不清楚）。

Yes, you're right. I think if you look at our slides, the mass revenues sequentially around 4% -- and the overall GGR for the quarter grew at 6% sequentially. So yes, the VIP revenues in the market as a whole grew faster than the mass revenues Q-on-Q.

你是對的。我想如果你看一下我們的幻燈片，大眾收入環比增長了 4% 左右，而本季的整體 GGR 環比增長了 6%。所以，是的，整個市場的 VIP 收入環比成長速度快於大眾收入。

I think in terms of the premium mass versus base mass, again, I think you can see it from our slides, premium mass grew slightly faster for us in this quarter. But the difference is not material when you account for things that whole percentage and (inaudible) so forth. So I wouldn't say there's a material divergence in the growth rates between premium mass and base mass, at least for our business for the quarter.

我認為就優質品質與基礎品質而言，我想您可以從我們的幻燈片中看到，本季我們的優質品質成長略快。但當你考慮整個百分比和（聽不清楚）等因素時，差異並不重要。因此，我不會說優質銷量和基本銷量之間的成長率存在重大差異，至少對於我們本季的業務而言是如此。

I think it's important to note that -- it's important to note that the visitation still is (inaudible) we like it to be. Obviously, there's still millions of people have not come versus the 2019 visitation numbers. We believe long-term visitation GGRs [did] grow, whether it be base or premium will get more than our fair share. And I think we've seen, obviously, I'll say the obvious, the promotional situation on the market has changed, (inaudible) doing things. And once everyone starts playing that game, I believe that will resolve itself.

我認為重要的是要注意——重要的是要注意訪問仍然是我們所希望的（聽不清楚）。顯然，與 2019 年的訪客人數相比，仍有數百萬人沒有來。我們相信，長期訪問 GGR 確實有所增長，無論是基本訪問量還是高級訪問量，都將超過我們的公平份額。我認為我們已經看到，顯然，我會說顯而易見的是，市場上的促銷情況已經發生了變化，（聽不清楚）正在做的事情。一旦每個人都開始玩這個遊戲，我相信這個問題就會自行解決。

We believe that [assets] will prevail. We believe Londoner will be an extraordinary asset, much like is happening in Singapore. I think our results in Singapore reflect a fully developed program and the execution is Singapore, it shows what can be done we have the right kind of assets. (inaudible) even done this in Singapore and the numbers are extraordinary. The same will happen in our business in Macao in time as GGRs accelerate and they will, visitations accelerate and it will. We'll continue to be a margin-focused, EBITDA focused and get our fair share and assets will prevail over promotions from our perspective.

我們相信[資產]將會佔上風。我們相信倫敦人將成為一筆非凡的資產，就像新加坡的情況一樣。我認為我們在新加坡的結果反映了一個充分開發的計劃，並且在新加坡執行，它表明我們擁有正確的資產可以做什麼。 （聽不清楚）甚至在新加坡也做到了這一點，而且數字非常驚人。同樣的情況也將發生在我們在澳門的業務上，隨著旅遊收入的增加，訪問量的增加，這將會發生。我們將繼續以利潤為中心，以 EBITDA 為中心，並獲得公平的份額，從我們的角度來看，資產將優先於促銷。

The next question is coming from Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行的卡洛桑塔雷利。

Just following up on the first quarter margin. If I look at the fourth quarter, for example, and then kind of extract the big element of turnover rent that comes in and obviously very high flow-through. It looks like margins are probably fairly similar. So it doesn't seem like a lot changed on that front. Is that accurate? Or am I missing something else seasonally there?

只是跟進第一季的利潤率。例如，如果我看一下第四季度，然後提取營業額租金的重要組成部分以及顯然非常高的流量。看起來邊距可能相當相似。所以這方面似乎沒有太大改變。準確嗎？或者我錯過了其他季節性的東西嗎？

You -- primarily you're correct. Well, that's the first thing to me -- interpret -- as you know, it occurs for the fourth quarter, and it's material. Grant, do you want to add to that?

你——首先你是對的。嗯，這對我來說是第一件事——解釋一下——正如你所知，它發生在第四季度，而且很重要。格蘭特，你想補充一下嗎？

Yes, it's accurate. You're right.

是的，這是準確的。你說得對。

Great. And if I could, just one follow-up on capital allocation. Obviously, over $400 million of buyback in this quarter. As you guys think about the capital needs here going forward, the stuff that you've announced, the stuff that obviously is being contemplated and looking at budgets around and whatnot. Do you feel like this pace is adequate and where you want to be as you look throughout the balance of this year?

偉大的。如果可以的話，我只想對資本配置進行後續行動。顯然，本季的回購額超過 4 億美元。當你們思考未來的資本需求時，你們已經宣布的東西，顯然正在考慮的東西，並考慮周圍的預算等等。從今年剩下的時間來看，你覺得這樣的節奏是否足夠，以及你想要達到的目標嗎？

Yes. So I think, first off, I just want to say we see value in both equities. And I think we have a very long-term bullish view given the market opportunity for growth, our market-leading investments in our assets and just how we feel about the opportunities in both markets that we have.

是的。所以我認為，首先，我只想說我們看到了這兩隻股票的價值。我認為，考慮到市場的成長機會、我們對資產的市場領先投資以及我們對這兩個市場的機會的感受，我們有一個非常長期的看漲觀點。

So as we said before, we're going to be overweight, share repurchases. As we think about future capital return, we are going to be more heavily weighted towards share repurchase and dividends. We think the repurchases are going to be more accretive than dividends over time, and we want to shrink that denominator.

正如我們之前所說，我們將增持股票回購。當我們考慮未來的資本回報時，我們將更加重視股票回購和股利。我們認為，隨著時間的推移，回購將比股利更具增值性，我們希望縮小分母。

And so I think we're going to look to make purchases that are consistent with our share authorization by the Board and with prior practice. And I think we'll look to be a little bit opportunistic. We may vary levels. But I think we're going to continue to be aggressive in the market. I mean I think you see it with the 450 million LVS shares, the SCL share repurchases. We think this represents an interesting opportunity just a moment in time. And so we're going to try to take advantage of it. We happen to have a very strong balance sheet. We have a lot of liquidity and we tend to put it to use.

因此，我認為我們將尋求符合董事會對我們的股票授權和先前慣例的收購。我認為我們會顯得有點機會主義。我們可能會改變等級。但我認為我們將繼續積極進取市場。我的意思是，我認為您可以從 4.5 億股 LVS 股票以及 SCL 股票回購中看到這一點。我們認為這代表著一個有趣的機會。所以我們將嘗試利用它。我們碰巧擁有非常強勁的資產負債表。我們有大量的流動性，我們傾向於利用它。

So I think we're pretty happy with where the program has taken us so far, and we'll continue to use it. And we'll see how it goes across the year. But we're going to look to repurchase more shares.

因此，我認為我們對該程式迄今為止所取得的進展感到非常滿意，並且我們將繼續使用它。我們將看看這一年的情況如何。但我們將尋求回購更多股票。

Just one aside. Guys, I'm not sure the slides are actually posted yet. It certainly could be user error, but it looks like that they haven't posted yet for the first quarter.

就放在一邊吧。夥計們，我不確定幻燈片是否真的已發布。這當然可能是用戶錯誤，但看起來他們還沒有發布第一季的資訊。

Yes. We're working on it.

是的。我們正在努力。

The next question is coming from Joe Greff from JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通的喬·格雷夫。

I was hoping one of you could maybe help quantify the revenue and EBITDA impact from the renovations going on at Londoner and the Cotai Arena? And then do you see that renovation disruption impact accelerating? And when do you start to see that decelerate? I know you kind of talked about the 2 Towers when they open up. But to kind of help understand that renovation impact in terms of how you're seeing it, I think, would be helpful for everybody.

我希望你們中的一位可以幫助量化倫敦人和金光綜藝館正在進行的翻修工程對收入和 EBITDA 的影響？那麼您是否看到裝修中斷的影響正在加速？你什麼時候開始看到這種減速？我知道您在 2 座塔樓開放時談論過它們。但我認為，從你如何看待改造的角度來幫助理解改造的影響，會對每個人都有幫助。

Yes. I don't know that we can necessarily quantify accurately what the impact was because we can't know what we displaced. You heard Grant describes a number of missing shows and the number of people typically will go to the shows in the Cotai Arena. You get a sense of the type of high-quality patron that we bring in, when we have live entertainment. And it is impactful. I think Q1 typically is a very powerful quarter for us as is Q4, and you got to see the difference that the impact had for entertainment.

是的。我不知道我們是否能夠準確地量化影響是什麼，因為我們不知道我們取代了什麼。您聽說格蘭特描述了一些缺失的演出以及通常會前往金光綜藝館觀看演出的人數。當我們有現場娛樂表演時，您會感受到我們帶來的高品質顧客的類型。而且它是有影響力的。我認為第一季對我們來說通常是一個非常強大的季度，就像第四季度一樣，你會看到它對娛樂的影響的差異。

We made a decision that if we take the arena offline and do it and make it one of the highest quality arenas in Asia, then in the long run, we will benefit from the entertainment. And so we decided to do it as quickly as possible. And so that meant taking it offline in January this year and trying to get it done by October, November. And so once we do that, we're going to have an incredibly high-quality arena with amenities that we've never had before. So it will make us more competitive in the market and actually drive additional high-quality tourism from both traditional markets and other markets. It will also help drive high-quality tourism from our core customer base and allow for more repeat visits from our high-value customers.

我們做出了一個決定，如果我們把這個場館線下做起來，讓它成為亞洲最高品質的場館之一，那麼從長遠來看，我們將從娛樂中受益。因此我們決定盡快完成。因此，這意味著今年 1 月將其下線，並試圖在 10 月、11 月之前完成。因此，一旦我們做到了這一點，我們將擁有一個令人難以置信的高品質競技場，以及我們以前從未擁有過的設施。因此，這將使我們在市場上更具競爭力，並實際上帶動傳統市場和其他市場的更多高品質旅遊業。它還將有助於推動我們的核心客戶群的高品質旅遊，並讓我們的高價值客戶有更多的重複訪問。

We're very excited about the opportunities this new entertainment asset will present to us. Unfortunately, we're going to take some pain while it's offline. And that really started in January of this year. I can't quantify the exact amount, but you hear the count from Grant and you realize that it is not immaterial.

我們對這項新的娛樂資產將為我們帶來的機會感到非常興奮。不幸的是，當它離線時我們會感到一些痛苦。這實際上是從今年一月開始的。我無法量化確切的金額，但當你聽到格蘭特的計數時，你會意識到這並非無關緊要。

And then the other side is we're taking the Sheraton out. And when we're done, it's going to be one of our best properties in Macao. The design will be a high level. The fundamentals of the Sheraton tower are quite good, both towers are quite good. They're actually a little bit better than the existing Londoner side, believe it or not. The layout of the casino will be very good. The additional food and beverage amenities that we could add. And I think the connectivity will be a very good driver of future results for that property. That's the reason why we're pretty confident that the results when it's done will be that or exceed that of the Venetian.

另一方面是我們要淘汰喜來登酒店。當我們完成後，它將成為我們在澳門最好的酒店之一。設計將是高水平的。喜來登塔樓的基礎相當好，兩座塔樓都相當不錯。不管你信不信，他們其實比現有的倫敦球隊好一些。賭場的佈局會非常好。我們可以添加額外的食品和飲料設施。我認為連通性將是該物業未來業績的一個非常好的驅動力。這就是為什麼我們非常有信心，完成後的結果將達到或超過威尼斯人的結果。

So I think for us, we're doing it now. It is going to be disruptive. The worst is going to be across the summer when we have the lowest key count that we've had since we really opened what was then in Sands Cotai Central because we're taking out -- we're going to take the Sheraton out. And so it's going to be more of this disruption across the summer, but then hopefully as keys come back online across the phasing. And as we get the arena back, let's call it, October, November, we'll have a much more powerful set of assets to drive tourism and create cash flow. So there will be disruption. I can't quantify it for you, but it's not going to be immaterial. Grant, I don't know if you have anything you'd like to add to that?

所以我認為對我們來說，我們現在正在這樣做。這將會是破壞性的。最糟糕的情況將是整個夏天，那時我們的鑰匙數量是自金沙城中心開業以來最低的，因為我們要撤掉喜來登酒店。因此，整個夏天這種幹擾將會更多，但希望鑰匙能在分階段重新上線。當我們收回競技場時，我們稱之為十月、十一月，我們將擁有更強大的資產來推動旅遊業和創造現金流。所以會出現混亂。我無法為你量化它，但它不會是無關緊要的。格蘭特，我不知道你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

I think you covered it perfectly. I think the only thing I'd supplement is Londoner Phase 1 really gave us that elevation in the share quality of product as well as a very successful rebranding and repositioning of the entire property. But what Phase 2 gives us is that scale of high-quality product and the diversity of it and that's when I think the earnings power of this resort will be fundamentally transformed.

我認為你完美地涵蓋了它。我認為我唯一要補充的是，倫敦人一期確實提高了產品的共享質量，並對整個酒店進行了非常成功的品牌重塑和重新定位。但第二階段帶給我們的是高品質產品的規模和多樣性，那時我認為這個度假村的獲利能力將會發生根本性的轉變。

I believe is -- we think once Londoner is done, Joe, we have the 1, 2 -- #1 and 2 assets in the (inaudible) by far. I'm not sure (inaudible) but that couple of arena gives us unique positioning for 25 years ahead to dominate the market in terms of the largest resorts and those (inaudible) resorts both 1 and 2.

我相信 - 我們認為一旦倫敦人完成，喬，我們到目前為止就擁有了 1、2 - #1 和 2 資產（聽不清楚）。我不確定（聽不清楚），但這兩個競技場為我們提供了獨特的定位，可以在未來 25 年主導最大度假村以及 1 號和 2 號度假村（聽不清楚）的市場。

Great. You may have answered my follow-up question indirectly on your prior margin commentary. And maybe this is something Grant could talk about. But can you talk about the level of the market's premium mass reinvestment levels? Has that been pretty consistent in the first quarter and what you're seeing year-to-date versus how the end of the year finished? Or is there any kind of trend change on that front? That's all for me. .

偉大的。您可能已經根據先前的保證金評論間接回答了我的後續問題。也許這就是格蘭特可以談論的事情。但您能談談市場優質的大規模再投資水準嗎？第一季的情況以及今年迄今的情況與年底的情況是否相當一致？或者這方面有什麼趨勢變化嗎？這就是我的全部。 。

Thanks, Joe. For us, yes, our profitability, the structure, of a margin in every segment, actually, quarter-on-quarter, very consistent. No significant changes there. And that obviously fed through to the result that the earlier question described, which is that we had a very consistent margin quarter-on-quarter despite obviously some inflation in the payroll costs due to holiday pay and salary increases.

謝謝，喬。對我們來說，是的，我們每個細分市場的獲利能力、結構、利潤率，實際上季度環比都非常一致。那裡沒有重大變化。這顯然影響到了前面問題所描述的結果，即儘管由於假期工資和加薪而導致工資成本明顯上漲，但我們的季度利潤率非常穩定。

My question, maybe I didn't explain it that clearly. The level of premium mass reinvestment from your competitors? How would you characterize that year-to-date versus the end of last year?

我的問題，可能是我沒有解釋清楚。您的競爭對手的優質大規模再投資水準如何？與去年年底相比，您如何評價今年迄今的情況？

Sorry, you're talking about the overall market now.

抱歉，你現在談論的是整個市場。

Yes.

是的。

(inaudible) customers.

（聽不清楚）客戶。

I think the promotion activities levels are relatively intense right now. Is it higher than Q4? I don't think so. But it comes and goes and goes up -- has ups and downs. But I think over time, there really isn't any necessity in this market to be too aggressive on promotions. The demand and supply, supply constrained market, the quality of supply is exceptional. We are a big contributor to that. And as GGR rises, that becomes even less of an issue over time. And for us, it doesn't matter. We stick to our strategy, which is, as Rob referenced, product-based is driven off our asset base, the upgrades we're making, the quality of the assets and the services that go with that in addition to the programming, the content programming -- and like we talked about, we have very big beliefs in that entertainment being core offering. That's why we're investing this $200 million in the upgrade of Cotai Arena.

我覺得現在促銷活動的力道還是比較激烈的。比Q4高嗎？我不這麼認為。但它來來去去，上升——有起有落。但我認為隨著時間的推移，這個市場確實沒有必要在促銷上過於激進。供需關係，市場供應緊張，供應品質卻異常出色。我們對此做出了巨大貢獻。隨著 GGR 的上升，隨著時間的推移，這將不再是一個問題。對我們來說，這並不重要。我們堅持我們的策略，正如羅布所提到的那樣，基於產品的基礎是我們的資產基礎、我們正在進行的升級、資產的質量以及與之相伴的服務，除了節目、內容之外編程——就像我們談到的，我們堅信娛樂是核心產品。這就是我們投資 2 億美元升級金光綜藝館的原因。

So yes, when it's all said and done, we believe that GGR continues to rise. Our asset base is going to be better than before and better than ever. And that's the way we're going to compete. And that's the only way we think we can compete on a sustainable and profitable basis is really based on the quality execution of our product and the service that go with that.

所以，是的，歸根結底，我們相信 GGR 會繼續上升。我們的資產基礎將比以前更好，而且比以往任何時候都更好。這就是我們競爭的方式。我們認為，我們能夠在可持續和盈利的基礎上競爭的唯一方法實際上是基於我們產品的品質執行和隨之而來的服務。

Joe, we're obviously keen on where most of the environment (inaudible) referencing, we're certainly aware of what's happening in Macao promotions. We remain steadfast, I believe that our product, once completed, will be superior. The scale is greater. The market will grow and that's how we'll capture our fair share and remain focused on margins and keeping our EBITDA on one of the go to. We're not going to play the game of chasing $10 more for promotions. We don't think it's our business and who we are.

喬，我們顯然熱衷於大多數環境（聽不清楚）參考，我們當然知道澳門促銷活動中發生的事情。我們依然堅定，我相信我們的產品一旦完成，將會更加卓越。規模更大。市場將會成長，這就是我們如何獲得公平份額並繼續關注利潤率並保持我們的 EBITDA 的目標之一。我們不會玩為促銷多花 10 美元的遊戲。我們認為這不關我們的事，不關我們的事。

We're an asset-driven company with quality assets and scale. And again, we've proven that time and time again. And once Londoner is done, arena will be just want to be in (inaudible) market leading, margin leading assets in Macao.

我們是一家資產驅動型公司，擁有優質的資產和規模。我們已經一次又一次地證明了這一點。一旦倫敦人完成，競技場將只想成為（聽不清楚）市場領先、利潤率領先的澳門資產。

The next question is coming from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的肖恩凱利。

Sorry if I'm beating the dead horse here, but I did want to just kind of stick with the margin commentary, but I'll give it a little bit of a longer-term view. My question is really just trying to get a sense of what would it take to get back to, let's call it, the mid- to high -- mid- to high 30s on margins here. Is what we're seeing today and now increasingly expecting for the balance of '24 more about customer mix? Or is it about sort of onetime call-outs around renovations and maybe some lost very high-margin non-gaming revenue?

很抱歉，如果我在這裡打敗了死馬，但我確實想堅持邊緣評論，但我會給出一些更長遠的觀點。我的問題實際上只是想了解如何才能回到我們所說的中高30 年代的利潤率。我們今天所看到的以及現在越來越期待「24 小時」更多關於客戶組合的平衡嗎？或者是關於裝修方面的一次性呼籲，也許有些人損失了非常高利潤的非博彩收入？

So it's a very interesting question, and it's the right question to ask. So as these properties reach run rate, so as they reach their full potential, the margin should be upper 30s. (inaudible)

所以這是一個非常有趣的問題，也是正確的問題。因此，當這些資產達到運行率並充分發揮其潛力時，利潤率應該在 30 多歲以上。 （聽不清楚）

Sorry, I think someone at Sand China put us on hold, please excuse us.

抱歉，我想金沙中國有人要我們暫停，請原諒。

So we think about margins in the upper 30s. If you look at the performance of the Venetian, that's a good benchmark, right? It was impacted a little bit this quarter again, also by the entertainment not being there in the Cotai Arena, but -- and mix-wise, to be fair, pre-pandemic, it had more mass play and that's higher margin. And so as tourism returns, so as visitation increases, which has more mass play, and we have plenty of capacity for it. So if you look at our asset base, the scale of the assets, the food and beverage we have, the amenities we have, we can accommodate a lot of mass play. And we have the positions to do it.

所以我們考慮 30 多歲的利潤率。如果你看看威尼斯人的表現，這是一個很好的基準，對嗎？本季它再次受到了一點影響，也是因為金光綜藝館沒有娛樂活動，但是——公平地說，在大流行之前，它有更多的大眾遊戲，利潤率更高。因此，隨著旅遊業的恢復，遊客數量的增加，大眾娛樂活動也會越來越多，我們有足夠的容量來進行。因此，如果你看看我們的資產基礎、資產規模、我們擁有的食品和飲料、我們擁有的便利設施，我們可以容納大量的大眾遊戲。我們有能力做到這一點。

And so for us, as visitation shows up and continues to -- on an upward trend, our assets are ready to take that visitation, revenue will grow, margins will grow and they will normalize back towards a more traditional mix.

因此，對我們來說，隨著訪問量的出現並繼續呈上升趨勢，我們的資產已準備好接受訪問量，收入將增長，利潤率將增長，並且它們將正常化回到更傳統的組合。

That being said, the Londoner has the opportunity to also bring a lot of high-value tourism. So we're carrying the expense base without the revenue, right? So we have the team members. We have the -- we have all the things going on that you have that we're fully operating, but it's not fully operating yet. So the margins naturally are not going to look right.

話雖如此，倫敦人也有機會帶來大量高價值的旅遊業。所以我們只承擔費用基礎而沒有收入，對嗎？這樣我們就有了團隊成員。我們擁有——我們擁有你們所擁有的所有事情，我們正在全面運作，但還沒有完全運作。所以邊距自然不會看起來正確。

So as the revenue comes in and as a visitation comes in, as the patrons come in, as the hotel is completed and as the rest of the amenities are done, that will look more normal. The only problem is it's in '25. So we have a little bit of time that we have to get through with this investment.

因此，隨著收入的增加、訪問量的增加、顧客的進來、酒店的竣工以及其他設施的完成，這看起來會更加正常。唯一的問題是它是25年的。所以我們有一點時間來完成這項投資。

Are there some high-value things that are very high margin that we're missing because of entertainment or ease out, yes, that's true. But when you look at the asset base that we have, the experience that we have, the team that we have there, their ability to execute and how they've executed so far and the asset base that we're creating with these investments, we're going to be in a great position. And the margins we believe we'll get there. But we need visitation to continue. That will be helpful for the Venetian. It will be helpful for the mass to recover, we need to have all of our assets in line, so that's the Cotai Arena to be finished and the Sheraton to become fully [Londonerized] that's a word and get to our full key count. And then you'll see the true power of these assets and the margins will get there.

是否有一些高價值的東西，我們因為娛樂或放鬆而錯過了非常高的利潤，是的，確實如此。但是，當你看看我們擁有的資產基礎、我們擁有的經驗、我們在那裡擁有的團隊、他們的執行能力以及他們迄今為止的執行方式以及我們透過這些投資創建的資產基礎時，我們將處於有利地位。我們相信我們會達到目標的利潤率。但我們需要探視才能繼續。這對威尼斯人會有幫助。這將有助於大眾的恢復，我們需要讓我們所有的資產都保持一致，所以金光綜藝館要完工，喜來登要完全[倫敦化]，一句話，我們要統計全部的關鍵數據。然後你就會看到這些資產的真正力量，利潤也會達到那裡。

We have a lifestyle program that we run within high-quality amenities. If you haven't been to Macao, you haven't seen what we've done, I would encourage you to do it. It's not simply one thing. It's not simply hospitality. It's not simply gaming. It's not simply retail. It's an ecosystem that allows our customers to travel around all of our assets and have an experience they can't get any place else. And that's really what we have on offer and it's unique. And it's been invested in it and it will continue to get better.

我們有一個在高品質設施內運作的生活方式計劃。如果你沒有去過澳門，你還沒有看到我們所做的事情，我鼓勵你去看看。這不僅僅是一件事。這不僅僅是熱情好客。這不僅僅是遊戲。這不僅僅是零售。這是一個生態系統，讓我們的客戶能夠遊覽我們的所有資產，並獲得在其他地方無法獲得的體驗。這確實是我們所提供的，而且是獨一無二的。它已經投入其中，並且會繼續變得更好。

So for us, as Rob said, we're not chasing promotional activity, we're chasing asset development, and that will drive our success.

因此，對我們來說，正如羅布所說，我們不是在追求促銷活動，而是在追求資產開發，這將推動我們的成功。

Thanks, Patrick, and I appreciate the insight. As a quick follow-up for whoever is appropriate, just looking at Singapore, I mean, obviously, a breakout quarter with a run rate above $500 million. There were some onetime things in that market, Taylor Swift, I believe, being one and then (inaudible) I think you called out event activity broadly speaking. But also, there was a change in, I think, Chinese visa policies that was probably potentially fruitful for the market. So just the big question here is what's the right run rate? And do you think, again, maybe event activity agnostic, we could sustain above the $500 million mark? And are we kind of off to the races here and notwithstanding the fact that even that number sounds like it included a little bit of Tower 3 disruption?

謝謝帕特里克，我很欣賞你的見解。作為對合適的人的快速跟進，僅以新加坡為例，我的意思是，顯然，這是一個突破性的季度，運行率超過 5 億美元。我相信，那個市場上有一些曾經的東西，泰勒絲（Taylor Swift），然後（聽不清楚）我認為你廣泛地稱呼了事件活動。而且，我認為中國簽證政策的變化可能會為市場帶來潛在的成果。所以這裡最大的問題是正確的運行率是多少？您是否再次認為，也許與活動活動無關，我們可以維持在 5 億美元大關之上？儘管這個數字聽起來像是包含了一點 3 號塔的干擾，但我們是否已經開始參加比賽了？

I think the first thing you should note is that the building is still under renovation. I think we believe $500 million a quarter annualized is very doable and more. And the most important thing you should note is 2 things. The growth in Singapore as a desirable destination (inaudible), it's not just Taylor Swift, it's (inaudible), the Hamilton Show. It's endless events, F1. It's a juggernaut. And it really it's become accelerated. This market has become very special in a very short order. And I think that's attributed to the government there and the program is happening, entertainment, et cetera. So Singapore is highly desirable. And yes, that's very sustainable. And as good as Taylor Swift was -- there's a lot more in the pipeline that will make that continue.

我認為您應該注意的第一件事是建築物仍在裝修中。我認為我們相信每季年化 5 億美元是非常可行的，甚至更多。您應該注意的最重要的事情是兩件事。新加坡作為一個令人嚮往的目的地的發展（聽不清楚），不僅是泰勒絲，還有（聽不清楚）漢密爾頓秀。這是無盡的事件，F1。這是一個主宰。它確實變得加速了。這個市場在很短的時間內就變得非常特別。我認為這要歸功於那裡的政府和正在進行的節目、娛樂等等。所以新加坡是非常理想的。是的，這是非常可持續的。儘管泰勒絲（Taylor Swift）表現出色，但還有更多的作品正在醞釀中，讓這種情況繼續下去。

Secondly, our building has less than 20 top-tier suites. Upon completion, we'll have an excess of 700. The sweet spot of the market is in premium mass and super-premium mass rolling -- non-rolling. We can't -- I think we almost approaching $1 billion a slot when we may be out of bullets there as we get more capacity. But this is a very special market. Our building is a special building. I don't know if they're (inaudible) a doubt [520, 540, 600]. Look, this is going to keep growing. This is a great place to be. We're lucky to be there. We're lucky that the government is very supportive and excellent team in place. But most importantly, the assets it didn't happen by luck. We are doing -- spend a lot of money to make sure those assets are superb and the customers come back time and time again.

其次，我們的大樓只有不到20間頂級套房。完成後，我們將擁有超過 700 輛。我們不能——我認為我們每個時段的投資幾乎接近 10 億美元，而隨著我們獲得更多的產能，我們可能會耗盡子彈。但這是一個非常特別的市場。我們的大樓是一棟特別的建築。我不知道它們是否（聽不清楚）是一個疑問 [520, 540, 600]。看，這將繼續增長。這是一個很棒的地方。我們很幸運能在那裡。我們很幸運，政府非常支持，有優秀的團隊。但最重要的是，資產的出現並不是靠運氣。我們正在做——花很多錢來確保這些資產是一流的，並且客戶會一次又一次地回來。

The real question is what happens when the building has 4 (inaudible). That's going to happen later this year and early 2025. When those fleets are rolled out and they're great suites, they're phenomenal suites. And that building to (inaudible), it can, and it would. And I think, again, what we're trying to tell you about Macao is -- we're frustrated by Macao. A couple of the operating environment is more difficult. We're under construction, a self-inflicted wound.

真正的問題是當建築物有 4 個（聽不清楚）時會發生什麼。這將在今年稍後和 2025 年初發生。那棟建築（聽不清楚），它可以，而且它會。我想，關於澳門，我們想再次告訴大家的是──我們對澳門感到沮喪。一對夫婦的運作環境比較困難。我們正在建設中，這是一個自傷。

But once we emulate in Macao, we've done in Singapore, the same thing will prevail. Londoner and Venetian neck and neck to drive that market. And again, I think the government recently talked about a lot of things they're trying to increase tourism and (inaudible) a real nice supports us to (inaudible), and we're grateful to the government for recognizing a (inaudible) about increased tourism, increase entertainment.

但一旦我們在澳門效仿，在新加坡效仿，同樣的事情也會盛行。倫敦人和威尼斯人並駕齊驅地推動著這個市場。再說一次，我認為政府最近談論了很多他們正在努力增加旅遊業的事情，並且（聽不清楚）為我們提供了真正的支持（聽不清楚），我們感謝政府認識到（聽不清楚）關於增加旅遊，增加娛樂。

We're locking 2 very, very special places. And yes, Singapore can do 500, it can do 550. It's not about Taylor Swift. It's about a great market, a great asset and a team running it.

我們鎖定了兩個非常非常特別的地方。是的，新加坡可以做到 500，它可以做到 550。這是關於一個偉大的市場、一個偉大的資產、一個管理它的團隊。

The next question is coming from Robin Farley from UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的羅賓法利。

I just wanted to circle back. You were commenting earlier in the slides were not up yet. So I haven't been able to go through them, but it sounded like you were saying that your sequential growth in mass and premium were both at a similar rate sequentially. I'm just wondering if there's anything to add any color around that since the market has generally speaking, been seeing better premium mass recovery. Just any color you'd add there?

我只是想繞回來。您之前在幻燈片中評論過的內容尚未播放。因此，我無法詳細了解它們，但聽起來您好像在說品質和溢價的連續增長速度都相似。我只是想知道是否有任何東西可以為其添加任何色彩，因為總體而言，市場已經看到了更好的優質大眾復甦。您想在那裡添加任何顏色嗎？

Grant, I think you should take that. Grant?

格蘭特，我認為你應該接受這個。授予？

Yes, Robin. I don't know if the deck is up.

是的，羅賓。不知道板子有沒有升起來

It's up now, Grant.

現在好了，格蘭特。

It's up now.

現在已經到了。

It's up, guys.

好了，夥計們。

Yes. So if you look at premium mass win we're up 2% quarter-on-quarter and base mass were down 3% quarter-on-quarter. But I think my point earlier, the difference is here and there. It could be related to any number of, I think, non-substantive factors. So I wouldn't describe this as a divergence in trend. But this quarter, we just did slightly better in premium mass versus base mass.

是的。因此，如果你看看優質品質的勝利，我們季度環比增長了 2%，而基礎品質則環比下降了 3%。但我認為我之前的觀點是，差異就在這裡和那裡。我認為，這可能與許多非實質因素有關。所以我不會將其描述為趨勢背離。但本季度，我們在優質品質方面的表現略優於基礎品質。

Visitations (inaudible) see the wider market growing, our property visitations actually grew sequentially as well. So nothing significant to remark on in terms of the segment divergence.

訪問量（聽不清楚）看到更廣泛的市場成長，我們的房地產訪問量實際上也持續成長。因此，就細分市場差異而言，沒有什麼值得評論的。

Okay. Great. That's helpful. And then just any thoughts around New York timing and your expectations there sort of anything new to add there?

好的。偉大的。這很有幫助。那麼關於紐約時間安排的任何想法以及您對那裡有什麼新內容可以添加的期望嗎？

Yes, we're very disappointed by New York. I mean we've been working there for a long time, and we thought it was going to happen in '24 that we'll see. Now they're saying '25 or '26, but I don't think we have any real clarity, and to be honest with you, it's confusing and disappointing because we've got a lot of work in New York and a lot of time into it. So I have no guidance, but I don't really know what to tell you with (inaudible) insight. Just don't know about New York. And it's just -- we wish the -- figure it out and let us know. We just don't know. So we'll remain hopeful that things turn around there.

是的，我們對紐約感到非常失望。我的意思是我們已經在那裡工作了很長時間，我們認為這將在 24 年發生，我們將會看到。現在他們說“25”或“26”，但我認為我們沒有任何真正的清晰度，說實話，這令人困惑和令人失望，因為我們在紐約有很多工作要做，還有很多工作要做。所以我沒有任何指導，但我真的不知道該用（聽不清楚）的洞察力告訴你什麼。只是不知道紐約怎麼樣。只是——我們希望——弄清楚並讓我們知道。我們只是不知道。因此，我們仍對事情出現好轉抱持著希望。

The next question is coming from Vitaly Umansky from Seaports.

下一個問題來自 Seaports 的維塔利·烏曼斯基 (Vitaly Umansky)。

I think maybe switching over to Singapore. If we think about kind of the quantifying the effect of what the renovations at that property have already done. And Rob, you talked about potentially this property getting up to about $2.4 billion, $2.5 billion in theory, once the renovations are done in the first phase of the property, where do we see kind of constraints being built in? Because if you look at kind of occupancy rates in the hotel rooms today and we look at ADRs, they continue to expand. At some point, we're going to reach a limit as to how many rooms can be filled and then we're talking about trying to fill rooms with higher value customers. So when we think about -- before we get to the expansion, where is that constraint and how quickly do you think we can get there?

我想也許會轉到新加坡。如果我們考慮量化該物業已經完成的翻修工程的效果。 Rob，你談到這處房產的價格可能會達到 24 億美元，理論上是 25 億美元，一旦房產第一階段的翻修完成，我們會在哪裡看到一些限制？因為如果你看看今天飯店房間的入住率和平均房價，你會發現它們在持續擴大。在某些時候，我們將達到可以容納的房間數量的限制，然後我們會討論嘗試讓更高價值的客戶填滿房間。因此，當我們思考—在進行擴張之前，限制在哪裡？

It's a good question. I think, unfortunately, it's probably an answer that we've seen that -- we never dreamed slots of the $1 billion property that they're approaching that. We never dreamed that in this environment so quickly after COVID, we reached the kind of epic levels we're seeing the growth in the premium masses and powerful (inaudible) on the call that as we tell us there's still a drop in the bucket. There's much more to go. And so I think the growth will come out of the super premium mass both rolling, non-rolling.

這是一個好問題。不幸的是，我認為這可能是我們已經看到的答案——我們從未夢想過他們正在接近這個 10 億美元的財產。我們從未夢想過，在新冠疫情爆發後如此迅速的環境下，我們就達到了史詩般的水平，我們看到了優質大眾和強大（聽不清）電話的增長，正如我們告訴我們的那樣，這仍然是九牛一毛。還有很多事情要做。因此，我認為成長將來自於滾動和非滾動的超優質品質。

I don't think ADRs all that impactful because hopefully, someday, you won't sell many rooms. This will be a product that is mostly gaming customers. The rooms, I hope -- the suites we're building are just exemplary. And I think that this product is only going to have more good days ahead. (inaudible) as a goal for our company as the decade progresses when [we we're] very tenable to reach $600 million almost this quarter and in actual -- is very stimulated. It's very exciting.

我不認為 ADR 有那麼大的影響力，因為希望有一天，你不會賣出很多房間。這將是一款主要面向遊戲客戶的產品。我希望我們正在建造的房間——套房只是一個典範。我認為這款產品只會有更多好日子。 （聽不清楚）作為我們公司的一個目標，隨著十年的發展，[我們]非常有能力在本季度達到 6 億美元，實際上，我們非常興奮。這是非常令人興奮。

But the caps on the capacity. It's already a problem for us in terms of slot machines. We have room problem. We wish you had more exposure to Singapore as for building more product. This is a very, very special place that people gravitate to. And as Singapore does its job as a lifestyle, entertainment, exciting place to visit, demands on grow. So the only concern we have in Singapore is how quickly we get there. Once these fleets are unleashed in the market and you see it I think we'll have some very bright days ahead. But obviously, it's capacity constraint. (inaudible) so many rooms, only have so many slot machines. And I don't want to gain there. I just think we get there, we'll be disciplined. We can't have more exposure. That's why we're building things too.

但容量有上限。對我們老虎機來說這已​​經是一個問題了。我們有房間問題。我們希望您能多接觸新加坡來打造更多產品。這是一個非常非常特別的地方，人們都趨之若鶓。隨著新加坡成為一個生活方式、娛樂場所、令人興奮的旅遊勝地，新加坡的需求也不斷增長。因此，我們在新加坡唯一關心的是我們能多快到達那裡。一旦這些機隊投入市場並且您看到了，我認為我們未來將會有一些非常光明的日子。但顯然，這是容量限制。 （聽不清楚）這麼多房間，只有這麼多老虎機。我不想在那裡有所收穫。我只是認為我們到達那裡，我們會受到紀律處分。我們不能有更多的曝光。這就是我們也在建造東西的原因。

Vitaly, one thing and welcome back to the call. I think the key thing for us is we have a very strong view of the future success in Singapore, so strong that we're investing a couple of billion dollars in this property. And we're looking (inaudible) as quickly as we can.

維塔利，有一件事，歡迎回到電話。我認為對我們來說最重要的是我們對新加坡未來的成功有非常強烈的看法，如此強烈以至於我們在這個房產上投資了數十億美元。我們正在盡快尋找（聽不清楚）。

We think that this market is benefiting from a lot of the factors that make Singapore, Singapore, great infrastructure, strong, stable government, great investment, great policy. And to be fair, you're seeing the result of it. And it's only our business as many businesses in Singapore. And so I think that's a very helpful indicator. But more importantly, the more other investment that goes into Singapore will help drive further visitation.

我們認為這個市場受益於許多因素，使新加坡擁有良好的基礎設施、強大、穩定的政府、巨大的投資和偉大的政策。公平地說，你正在看到它的結果。這只是我們的事，新加坡的許多企業也是如此。所以我認為這是一個非常有用的指標。但更重要的是，更多的其他投資進入新加坡將有助於推動更多的遊客。

So the infrastructure is already there. The real question is how many more hotels we'll go in. We feel very strongly that the more hotel rooms are added will help add to the critical mass of tourism that Singapore already has today.

所以基礎設施已經在那裡了。真正的問題是我們還要入住多少家飯店。

If you look at the wealth creation going around in Southeast Asia, it's pretty substantial. The last 4 years, even during the pandemic have been pretty meaningful. And there are a lot of customers that are new to Singapore and new to Marina Bay Sands, and they're affluent and very successful, and they want to consume and they want to take advantage of Singapore -- the thing Singapore has on offer.

如果你看看東南亞各地創造的財富，你會發現這是相當可觀的。過去四年，即使是在疫情期間，也是相當有意義的。有很多新來新加坡和濱海灣金沙的顧客，他們都很富裕，非常成功，他們想要消費，想要利用新加坡——新加坡所提供的東西。

And so we feel very strongly about the future visitation in Singapore. It's an interesting question, where is the peak of demand. We don't really see it right now. What we see is a supply constraint, right? When you look at who's trying to come to Singapore and the activities that are going on, we feel very strongly about future investment. We think it's there.

因此，我們對未來訪問新加坡的感受非常強烈。這是一個有趣的問題，需求的高峰在哪裡。我們現在還沒有真正看到它。我們看到的是供應限制，對嗎？當你看看誰試圖來新加坡以及正在進行的活動時，我們對未來的投資有非常強烈的感覺。我們認為它就在那裡。

Maybe just a follow-up, switching gears to Macao. And Grant, you talked a little bit about kind of the base mass and the growth you've seen in the quarter is very similar to premium. But I think overall, if you kind of think about Sands in Macao, obviously, you're very strong in the direct VIP business, you're very strong in the premium business. But where you have a massive competitive advantage, in my view, is just your scale, which then talks about base mass and the higher margin available from base mass.

也許只是後續行動，轉向澳門。格蘭特，您談到了基數，您在本季度看到的成長與溢價非常相似。但我認為總的來說，如果你想想澳門金沙，顯然，你在直接貴賓業務方面非常強大，在高級業務方面也非常強大。但在我看來，你擁有巨大競爭優勢的地方就在於你的規模，然後討論基礎品質和基礎品質可獲得的更高利潤。

If you look at the recovery in overall base mass, it has not been as strong as the more premium end of the market. Can you maybe give an explanation as to why you think that is, if you agree with that statement? And then how does the market maybe change or need to change over the next couple of quarters in order to get some of that base mass back, which I think would benefit Sands relative to others in a much stronger way?

如果你看看整體基礎品質的復甦，你會發現它並不像更高端的市場那麼強勁。如果您同意該說法，您能否解釋為什麼會這樣？那麼，在接下來的幾個季度中，市場可能會發生什麼變化或需要發生什麼變化，才能恢復一些基礎質量，我認為這將使金沙集團相對於其他公司以更強大的方式受益？

Grant, you want to go ahead?

格蘭特，你想繼續嗎？

Yes, sure, Patrick. Yes, I'll take it. I think first point is you -- I agree, we have a huge advantage with our scale. But I think the scale advantage speaks to all the segments. I think if you look at historically how the company has developed, absolutely, the base mass with our scale, that has been a core advantage, but in the sense of how we describe all of these capital investments that we're making, especially in the Londoner scale we have on the quality of the premium product is really unprecedented. So I think our scale advantage will apply to all segments, in my view.

是的，當然，派崔克。是的，我會接受的。我認為第一點是你——我同意，我們的規模有巨大的優勢。但我認為規模優勢適用於所有細分市場。我認為，如果你回顧一下公司的歷史，絕對是如何發展基礎品質與我們的規模，這是一個核心優勢，但從我們如何描述我們正在進行的所有這些資本投資的意義上來說，特別是在我們對優質產品品質的倫敦人規模確實是前所未有的。因此，我認為我們的規模優勢將適用於所有細分市場。

Specifically on base mass, if you look at our actual numbers, the way we break it out between premium mass and base mass through the recovery since the reopening after the COVID restrictions. Actually, they're not too dissimilar now in terms of rate of recovery from a volume and revenue perspective, but it is true that in terms of customer count, patron house, we're still missing more from the base mass.

特別是在基礎品質方面，如果你看一下我們的實際數字，你會發現我們在新冠疫情限制後重新開放以來的恢復過程中，如何區分優質品質和基礎品質。事實上，從數量和收入的角度來看，它們現在的恢復率並沒有太大的不同，但確實，就客戶數量、贊助商而言，我們仍然缺乏更多的基礎品質。

So really 2 things to tell you. One is the quality of patronage has risen significantly because the revenue per patron is higher than before COVID. And secondly, there is still room for that base mass revenue and visitation to further recover. And I think -- I think there are many reasons, and it's hard to specifically attribute to 1 or 2 factors. But I think over time, especially as the economy improves, and also, I think people -- the distribution of content on terms of the lifestyle, the destination attractions all of the events, all of the non-gaming products and assets and the events that are actually distributed out there, I think you'll see a progressive improvement in that base mass segment -- and obviously, we will be obviously best placed to capture that growth when that comes.

所以真的有兩件事要告訴你。一是顧客的品質顯著提高，因為每位顧客的收入高於新冠疫情之前。其次，基礎大眾收入和訪問量仍有進一步恢復的空間。我認為——我認為原因有很多，很難具體歸因於一兩個因素。但我認為隨著時間的推移，特別是隨著經濟的改善，而且我認為人們——生活方式方面的內容分發、目的地吸引了所有的活動、所有的非遊戲產品和資產以及活動實際上分佈在那裡，我認為您會看到基礎品質部分的逐步改善- 顯然，當這種增長到來時，我們顯然將最有能力抓住這種增長。

The next question is coming from Chad Beynon from Macquarie.

下一個問題來自麥格理的查德貝農 (Chad Beynon)。

And thanks for posting the slides. On Slide 44, the flags of interest remain the same as what we've seen in the past couple of decks, Macao, Singapore, New York and you've talked through all these. There's been some recent discussions around Thailand and some even think that an integrated resort could open in Thailand, maybe even ahead of Japan. So wondering if you could opine on your views, I know early, but could this market be big enough, could a resort generate the cash flow meaningful enough for you guys to look at the market? Any views there?

感謝您發布幻燈片。在投影片 44 上，感興趣的標誌與我們在過去幾套牌中看到的相同，即澳門、新加坡、紐約，您已經討論過所有這些。最近圍繞泰國進行了一些討論，有些人甚至認為綜合度假村可以在泰國開業，甚至可能領先日本。所以想知道你是否可以發表你的看法，我很早就知道，但是這個市場是否足夠大，度假村是否可以產生足夠有意義的現金流讓你們看看市場？那裡有什麼看法嗎？

Yes. We absolutely have interest in Thailand. To your point, it could happen quicker than Japan. I think it's receivable. It's early days though, we still have work to do in the numbers and understanding it. It's a very, very exciting market in a lot of levels, and just the sheer size of population, the accessibility and the worriness of people travel to Thailand is obviously, I think, [#1] resort destination city in Asia. So we're very interested. But again, -- it's early days. I agree with your comments it could be faster than Japan, it's impossible.

是的。我們對泰國絕對感興趣。就你而言，這可能比日本發生得更快。我覺得是可以收的。不過，現在還為時過早，我們在數字和理解方面仍有工作要做。在許多層面上，這是一個非常非常令人興奮的市場，我認為，就人口規模、交通便利性和人們前往泰國旅遊的擔憂而言，泰國顯然是亞洲的[#1]度假目的地城市。所以我們非常感興趣。但話又說回來，現在還太早。我同意你的意見，它可能比日本更快，這是不可能的。

Certainly, there's usually a lot of pent-up desire from both business and government to work towards this. So we're interested. We're listening. We're doing the work to find out what makes sense for us there, and we'll keep you posted.

當然，企業和政府通常都有很多被壓抑的願望來努力實現這一目標。所以我們很有興趣。我們正在聽。我們正在努力找出對我們來說有意義的事情，我們會及時通知您。

And then on the P&L statement, investors are increasingly looking at EPS, just given what you're generating and kind of where the stock is trading. I believe there was a tax benefit in Q1. Could you talk to that potential benefit? And then any additional color in terms of will the tax rate start to look similar to what we saw in prior years given your mix of Singapore and Macao?

然後在損益表上，投資人越來越多地關注每股收益，只要考慮到你所產生的收益以及股票的交易地點。我相信第一季有稅收優惠。您能談談潛在的好處嗎？然後，考慮到新加坡和澳門的組合，稅率是否會開始與我們前幾年看到的相似？

I'll answer this in reverse. Yes, it will look more normal. It was a onetime item. It was related to reverse for Macao, $57 million for the tax rate will look more normal going forward.

我會反過來回答這個問題。是的，它看起來會更正常。這是一次性物品。這與澳門的逆轉有關，5700萬美元的稅率未來看起來會更正常。

The next question is coming from David Katz from Jefferies.

下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 David Katz。

When we look at the Macao strategy in view of the renovations that are going on this year, how we think about reinvestment credit referral programs that people are talking about, what's your philosophy on those this year? And do you sort of dial them back until next year? Or how should we think about it?

當我們從今年正在進行的改造來看澳門策略時，我們如何看待人們談論的再投資信貸推薦計劃，您今年對這些計劃的理念是什麼？你會把它們推遲到明年嗎？或者說我們該如何思考？

I'm not sure I understand the question, (inaudible) thought back our investment programs because we're under renovation? Is that your question?

我不確定我是否理解這個問題，（聽不清楚）回想一下我們的投資計劃，因為我們正在裝修？這是你的問題嗎？

That's right. Level of conservatism versus aggressiveness and sort of how you're (inaudible)

這是正確的。保守主義與激進主義的程度以及你的性格（聽不清楚）

We're not going to do -- we were not dial back. We just may not be as aggressive as some of -- you know the competitive pressures on the promotional front right now, has been talked about quite a bit. We're not believers in that approach, we're believers in -- we make our building the best-in-class. We have the scale, we have the lifestyle. We just believe in long term GGRs will grow, we'll participate in that. We'll be very, very adherent to good margins, and that's an important part of our business.

我們不會做——我們不會回撥。我們只是可能不像一些人那麼積極——你知道現在促銷方面的競爭壓力，已經被談論了很多。我們不相信這種方法，我們相信——我們讓我們的建築成為一流的。我們有規模，我們有生活方式。我們只是相信，從長遠來看，GGR 將會成長，我們將參與其中。我們將非常非常堅持良好的利潤率，這是我們業務的重要組成部分。

But no, we won't dial back our current reinvestment strategy. We won't necessarily dial it up either to compete in the market right now. So this will be a year of reinvestment as Patrick and Grant alluded to both the arena and the Londoner, but we're not going to pull back, if anything, will stay consistent.

但我們不會改變目前的再投資策略。我們現在也不一定會為了市場競爭而全力以赴。因此，正如帕特里克和格蘭特提到的競技場和倫敦人一樣，今年將是再投資的一年，但我們不會撤退，如果有的話，我們將保持一致。

Perfect. And I wanted to just ask about one of the slides where you show your maturities forthcoming '25, '26. Any sort of updated thoughts about how or when you're approaching this, and that's a (inaudible)?

完美的。我想問的是其中一張幻燈片，您在其中展示了即將到來的“25 年”和“26 年”的成熟度。關於如何或何時接近這個問題，有什麼最新的想法嗎？

So we're going to look to deal with -- so if you go to Page 32, I think you're referring to -- and if you look at the LVS maturities, we should deal with those in short order. That's kind of our intent. And then in August '25. We have the $1.8 billion that you see at the SCL level, we'll address those in due time. We mentioned that we wanted to bring down our total debt level at SCL given that we borrowed during the pandemic. So you'll see us reduce the quantum of that there.

因此，我們將考慮處理——所以如果你翻到第 32 頁，我想你指的是——如果你看看 LVS 的到期日，我們應該盡快處理這些問題。這就是我們的意圖。然後是 25 年 8 月。我們在 SCL 層面上看到了 18 億美元，我們將在適當的時候解決這些問題。我們提到，鑑於我們在疫情期間借款，我們希望降低 SCL 的總債務水準。所以你會看到我們減少了那裡的數量。

And then as part of the MBS credit facility, we'll address that of course, along with the IR2 start. So that's kind of how we'll deal with our capital structure. You'll see us term that out as we've done previously.

然後，作為 MBS 信貸安排的一部分，我們當然會在 IR2 啟動的同時解決這個問題。這就是我們處理資本結構的方式。您會看到我們像以前一樣對此進行了定義。

Next question will be from Daniel Politzer from Wells Fargo.

下一個問題將由富國銀行的 Daniel Politzer 提出。

First one on Macao. This is -- I think the second quarter in a row, your mass shares declined a little bit. Obviously, there was a lot of different factors this quarter. But if you could kind of maybe give us a little bit more color. Is this really just disruption, heightened promotional levels? Or is there a difference in the customer that you're seeing coming into the market or maybe something else altogether that's kind of driving the market share shifts that we're seeing on the mass side?

第一個是關於澳門的。我認為，你們的大眾股票連續第二季略有下降。顯然，本季有很多不同的因素。但如果你可以給我們多一點色彩的話。這真的只是破壞、提高促銷水平嗎？或者您看到進入市場的客戶是否存在差異，或者可能有其他因素推動了我們在大眾方面看到的市場份額變化？

Yes. I do want to point out before Grant answers this question that when we have less revenue because of disruption, we'll have less market share. So I do want to point out that with the arena being out with less revenue and slightly lower margin because of the impact having some hotel rooms out that our market share will be impacted because it's the same thing. So with that, I'll just turn it over to Grant.

是的。在格蘭特回答這個問題之前，我確實想指出，當我們因中斷而收入減少時，我們的市佔率也會減少。因此，我確實想指出，由於一些酒店房間的影響，競技場的收入減少，利潤率略有下降，我們的市場份額將受到影響，因為這是相同的事情。那麼，我就把它交給格蘭特。

Yes. I think it's hard to say which factors, I mean, you have a promotion environment out there that people have been talking about and that Rob referenced. You have obviously the disruptions that we've encountered because of our own projects. But on the other hand, it's also just looking at a very short time period here and there. So yes, our mass revenues were flat for the quarter, and the market grew 3%, 4%. But there's also a lot of factors that could have swung our way during the quarter, and we would have been much closer to the market growth rate. So I wouldn't draw too big a conclusion from that. If you look at historically how we've sustained our share of EBITDA pre-pandemic. The market shares fluctuate, but we always end up back in that low to mid-30s range in terms of EBITDA share.

是的。我認為很難說哪些因素，我的意思是，人們一直在談論並且羅布提到了人們一直在談論的晉升環境。顯然，我們因為自己的專案而遇到了乾擾。但另一方面，它也只是著眼於非常短的時間段。所以，是的，我們本季的大眾收入持平，而市場成長了 3%、4%。但本季還有很多因素可能會影響我們的發展，我們本來會更接近市場成長率。所以我不會從中得出太大的結論。如果你回顧一下歷史，我們是如何在大流行前維持我們的 EBITDA 份額的。市佔率有所波動，但就 EBITDA 份額而言，我們最終總是回到 30 多歲的低至 30 多歲的範圍內。

And to be fair, let's look at a longer time frame, let's look at the scorecard for 2023. We achieved 35% EBITDA share, against a GGR share of 26%. We were leaders in GGR yet, but we were a much bigger margin, the leader in EBITDA share as well as non-gaming revenues where we had 41% of the share of the market. So in aggregate, for the year, if you look at revenue, gaming, non-gaming EBITDA, I think our performance has been solid. But quarter-to-quarter, obviously, there will be fluctuations depending on those factors that we just discussed.

公平地說，讓我們看看更長的時間範圍，看看 2023 年的記分卡。我們在 GGR 方面仍然處於領先地位，但我們的利潤率要高得多，在 EBITDA 份額以及非博彩收入方面處於領先地位，我們擁有 41% 的市場份額。因此，總的來說，今年，如果你看看收入、遊戲、非遊戲 EBITDA，我認為我們的表現一直很穩健。但顯然，季度與季度之間會出現波動，這取決於我們剛才討論的因素。

Got it. And then just for the follow-up. I think you guys have gone up to 71% share of 1928.HK, I mean, can you talk about maybe where that goes over time? Is there an upper limit there? And maybe some of the puts and takes to increasing that ownership stake?

知道了。然後只是為了後續行動。我想你們在 1928.HK 的份額已經上升到了 71%，我的意思是，你們能談談隨著時間的推移，這種情況會發生什麼變化嗎？那裡有上限嗎？也許還有一些增加所有權股份的看跌期權和索取期權？

So I think there's an upper limit of 75% by exchange rules, although they do give waivers based on the size of the equity depending on the name. For us, I think, as I said before, SCL is investing a lot for the future, has a bright future ahead of it, and we'd like to own more of it. So you'll see us be aggressive. And I think where we stand, we see value in the stock today meaningfully. So that sort of is a repeat of what we said before, but I think you understand our conviction.

因此，我認為交易所規則的上限為 75%，儘管他們確實根據名稱的股權規模給予豁免。對我們來說，我認為，正如我之前所說，SCL 正在為未來投入大量資金，前景光明，我們希望擁有更多。所以你會看到我們很有侵略性。我認為就我們目前的立場而言，我們認為該股票今天的價值是有意義的。這有點像我們之前所說的重複，但我認為您理解我們的信念。

The next question is coming from Colin Mansfield from CBRE Institutional Research.

下一個問題來自 CBRE 機構研究部的 Colin Mansfield。

Congratulations on getting the last rating up to investment grade during the quarter. Maybe following on to David's question about the refinancing, maybe just an updated thoughts on how you're thinking about the subordinated term loan down at Sands China. And I know there's a lot of liquidity up at the parent, but how are you guys thinking about timing of potentially taking that out of the capital structure down there? And then I have one follow-up on ratings.

恭喜您在本季將最後評等提升至投資等級。也許繼大衛關於再融資的問題後，也許只是您如何看待金沙中國的次級定期貸款的最新想法。我知道母公司有大量流動性，但你們如何考慮將其從資本結構中剔除的時機？然後我對收視率進行了一項跟進。

Sure. I think you'll see us deal with LVS maturities and the SCL 25s before you see activity around the LVS [Parenco] term loan down SCL. One thing I'd like to point out is that it benefits SCL. It's a very favorable loan and allows them to have high-quality financing deeply subordinated at a favorable rate. So from that standpoint, the maturity is '28, and we'll see how it goes with SCL and what their needs are and kind of go from there. But I think we have ample liquidity up at Parenco , we believe, to do what we need.

當然。我認為，在您看到圍繞 SCL 的 LVS [Parenco] 定期貸款的活動之前，您會看到我們處理 LVS 到期日和 SCL 25。我想指出的一件事是它對 SCL 有利。這是一項非常優惠的貸款，使他們能夠以優惠的利率獲得深度次級的高品質融資。因此，從這個角度來看，成熟度是 28 年，我們將看看 SCL 的情況如何，他們的需求是什麼，以及從那裡開始的發展。但我認為，我們相信 Parenco 擁有充足的流動性，可以滿足我們的需求。

Great. And then just one follow-up on ratings. I mean, obviously, the company fully back on investment grade now. And I think with the development pipeline that you guys do have ahead of you, I'd just be curious how you're thinking about any sort of change the financial policy as it relates to target ratings. I think this is one of the companies that could eventually get to mid-BBB if you guys so desired. So I guess, how do you guys balance any sort of desire to have those level of ratings as it relates to cost of capital relative to, obviously, the development pipeline you have ahead of yourselves?

偉大的。然後只是收視率的後續行動。我的意思是，顯然，該公司現在完全恢復了投資等級。我認為，鑑於你們確實擁有的發展管道，我只是好奇你們如何考慮與目標評級相關的財務政策的任何變化。我認為如果你們願意的話，這是最終可能達到 BBB 中期的公司之一。所以我想，你們如何平衡獲得這些評級水平的任何渴望，因為它與資本成本相關，顯然，相對於你們自己擁有的開發管道？

Thanks. So I think as we look back pre-pandemic, we spent 5 years working towards investment grade. We think it's very important for us to actually be investment grade. It gives us access to the largest, most liquid debt market in the world. It gives us a very efficient cost of capital, which in the long run provides us flexibility, but really drives returns on new projects. We have this investment rate balance sheet. It helps us in new jurisdictions. You heard Rob talk about several of them. We have the financial capability to execute on these projects.

謝謝。因此，我認為，當我們回顧大流行前時，我們花了 5 年的時間致力於投資等級。我們認為，真正達到投資等級對我們來說非常重要。它使我們能夠進入世界上最大、流動性最強的債務市場。它為我們提供了非常有效的資本成本，從長遠來看，這為我們提供了靈活性，但真正推動了新專案的回報。我們有這個投資率資產負債表。它可以幫助我們進入新的司法管轄區。你聽到羅布談論過其中的幾個。我們有財力執行這些項目。

Our financial policy has always been that we like gross leverage to be between 2 and 3x. We've said this for many years, nothing's really changed. It's our consistent view. I think over time, we're going to deleverage because of EBITDA expansion. If you look at having MBS, it occurred. And our belief is that it will continue to occur at Sands China as well. So I think for us, the investment grade is very important. That gross leverage parameter of 2 to 3x is consistent with prior statement, prior practice. And I actually think we're very favorably levered on a net basis and on a gross basis. And we're looking forward to doing some new development. I think that will fit within our leverage profile based on sort of the prior discussions that we've had about progression of funding and EBITDA development.

我們的財務政策一直是希望總槓桿率在 2 到 3 倍之間。這句話我們已經說了很多年了，但沒有改變。這是我們一貫的觀點。我認為隨著時間的推移，由於 EBITDA 擴張，我們將去槓桿化。如果你看看MBS，它就發生了。我們相信，這種情況也將繼續在金沙中國發生。所以我認為對我們來說，投資等級非常重要。 2 至 3 倍的總槓桿參數與先前的聲明和實踐一致。事實上，我認為我們的槓桿率在淨值和毛額基礎上都非常有利。我們期待著進行一些新的開發。我認為，根據我們先前關於融資進展和 EBITDA 發展的討論，這將符合我們的槓桿狀況。

So we're very focused on it. We think we can handle our new developments, our investment in our existing assets and have a very healthy return on capital program, while balancing all these things and having an investment-grade balance sheet. That's our goal, and that's our view.

所以我們非常關注它。我們認為我們可以處理我們的新開發、對現有資產的投資，並擁有非常健康的資本回報計劃，同時平衡所有這些事情並擁有投資等級資產負債表。這是我們的目標，也是我們的觀點。

And this does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation.

今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路，度過美好的一天。我們感謝您的參與。