拉斯維加斯金沙集團 (LVS) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands' Fourth Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference Call.

女士們先生們，美好的一天，歡迎來到金沙 2022 年第四季度收益電話會議。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at Sands. Sir, the floor is yours.

現在我很高興將發言權交給 Sands 投資者關係高級副總裁 Daniel Briggs 先生。先生，地板是你的。

Thank you, operator. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO; Patrick Dumont, our President and COO; Dr. Wilfred Wong, President of Sands China; and Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations, Las Vegas Sands and COO of Sands China. Today's conference call will contain forward-looking statements.

謝謝你，運營商。今天加入電話會議的是我們的董事長兼首席執行官 Rob Goldstein；我們的總裁兼首席運營官 Patrick Dumont；金沙中國總裁王英偉博士；拉斯維加斯金沙集團亞洲業務執行副總裁兼金沙中國首席運營官 Grant Chum。今天的電話會議將包含前瞻性陳述。

We will be making those statements under the safe harbor provision of federal securities laws. The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward-looking statements. In.

我們將根據聯邦證券法的安全港條款作出這些聲明。公司的實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述中反映的結果存在重大差異。在。

addition, we will discuss non-GAAP measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measure are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We may refer to that presentation during the call. Finally, for the Q&A session, we ask those with interest to please pose one question and one follow-up question, so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. The presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Rob.

此外，我們將討論非 GAAP 措施。我們的新聞稿中包含與最具可比性的 GAAP 財務指標的對賬。我們已經在我們的網站上發布了收益報告。我們可能會在通話期間參考該演示文稿。最後，在問答環節，我們請有興趣的人提出一個問題和一個後續問題，這樣我們就可以讓每個有興趣的人都有機會參與。正在錄製演示文稿。我現在將電話轉給 Rob。

Thank you, Dan, and thank you for joining our call today. A few brief comments, then we move to Q&A. Macao's future is bright, remains the largest integrated resort market globally. Our commitment to investing in this incredible market is never wavered and with an unrivaled critical mass of world-class IRs as well as continued improvement in transportation infrastructure in the region. Macao will mature into a vibrant, diversified tourism market over the coming years.

謝謝你，丹，感謝你今天加入我們的電話會議。一些簡短的評論，然後我們進入問答環節。澳門前途光明，仍是全球最大的綜合度假村市場。我們對投資這個令人難以置信的市場的承諾從未動搖，擁有無與倫比的世界級 IR 臨界質量以及該地區交通基礎設施的持續改善。未來幾年，澳門將發展成為一個充滿活力、多元化的旅遊市場。

SCL's positioning and scale are perfect to capture the opportunity. Our diversified IR model with continuous investment in non-gaming segments, including MICE, hotel suites, live entertainment, retail, food and beverage, positions us well to capture the growth opportunity.

SCL 的定位和規模非常適合抓住機會。我們多元化的 IR 模式持續投資於非博彩領域，包括 MICE、酒店套房、現場娛樂、零售、食品和飲料，使我們能夠很好地抓住增長機會。

Our diversity, scale and track record in non-gaming make us uniquely positioned to cater all segments of the market enable Macao to appeal to international tourists as well. The new concession is a win-win. We deeply appreciate the opportunity to operate one of those gaming concessions in the next 10 years.

我們在非博彩領域的多樣性、規模和往績使我們在迎合所有細分市場方面處於獨特的地位，從而使澳門也能吸引國際遊客。新的讓步是雙贏的。我們非常感謝有機會在未來 10 年內經營這些博彩特許經營權之一。

We are excited to deploy more capital to expand non-gaming offerings at SCL. The USD 3.8 billion commitment is just a baseline. We hope to invest more as the market continues to grow. The commitment to develop non-gaming is the core of our investment and operating strategy for the past 2 decades, whether it be MICE, entertainment themed attractions or destination sales and marketing in overseas markets.

我們很高興能夠部署更多資金來擴展 SCL 的非博彩產品。 38 億美元的承諾只是一個基準。隨著市場的持續增長，我們希望投入更多。無論是會展旅遊、娛樂主題景點，還是海外市場的目的地銷售和營銷，致力於發展非博彩業務是我們過去20年投資和運營戰略的核心。

We view the investment commitments by SCL and the rest of the industry is positive for Macao. Over the past few weeks, travel restrictions have been lifted. It is too hard to tell the true measure of the underlying pace of recovery, but indications are extremely positive.

我們認為 SCL 和其他行業的投資承諾對澳門有利。在過去的幾周里，旅行限制已經取消。很難說出潛在復蘇速度的真正衡量標準，但跡象非常積極。

We have seen significant improvement on property visitation, gaming volumes, retail sales and hotel occupancy. We remain positive on investments in, The Londoner and Four Seasons. Our investments position us well as the market recovers. The quality of our new products will also help drive high-value tourism from the region, especially the overseas markets. Turning to Singapore, our normalized EBITDA and gaming volumes are back now to the 2019 levels.

我們已經看到物業訪問量、博彩量、零售額和酒店入住率有了顯著改善。我們仍然看好《倫敦人》和《四季》的投資。隨著市場復甦，我們的投資使我們處於有利地位。我們新產品的質量也將有助於推動該地區特別是海外市場的高價值旅遊業。談到新加坡，我們的標準化 EBITDA 和博彩量現在回到了 2019 年的水平。

Normalized EBITDA reached USD 386 million for the quarter. Rolling volumes are approaching 2019 level and mass win per day is now exceeding the level of 2019. We have also delivered strong performance in non-gaming across all segments, including retail, mall, hotel, F&B and MICE.

本季度標準化 EBITDA 達到 3.86 億美元。滾動量接近 2019 年的水平，每天的中場贏額現已超過 2019 年的水平。我們還在零售、購物中心、酒店、餐飲和 MICE 等所有領域的非博彩業務中取得了強勁的表現。

Retail is especially noteworthy with a 26% increase in tenant sales per square foot versus 2019. Our [Sweden] casino renovation program is progressing. (inaudible) product will come online throughout the year. Looking ahead, Marina Bay Sands is poised for further growth as all of our markets recover and become free of travel restrictions and airline lift continues to recover. Let's move to Q&A.

零售業尤其值得注意，與 2019 年相比，每平方英尺的租戶銷售額增長了 26%。我們的 [瑞典] 賭場改造計劃正在進行中。 （聽不清）產品將全年上線。展望未來，隨著我們所有市場的複蘇和旅行限制的解除以及航空運力的持續恢復，濱海灣金沙有望實現進一步增長。讓我們轉到問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

And the first question is coming from Joe Greff from JPMorgan.

第一個問題來自摩根大通的 Joe Greff。

My first question, obviously, is going to be on Macao, and Rob, Patrick, Dan, can you remind us what levels of mass GGR either on a dollar per day basis or as a percentage of 2019 levels, do you need to be at in order to be EBITDA breakeven?

顯然，我的第一個問題是關於澳門的，Rob、Patrick 和 Dan，你能提醒我們大眾 GGR 的水平是多少嗎？無論是按每天美元計算還是佔 2019 年水平的百分比，你需要達到多少？為了EBITDA盈虧平衡？

Obviously, the 4Q saw a [broke] narrowing relative to the 3Q. I'm presuming and would love for you to expand on it, I'm presuming what you're seeing thus far early in January is either at EBITDA breakeven or maybe more recently generating some level of positive EBITDA.

顯然，第 4 季度相對於第 3 季度出現了 [broke] 收窄。我假設並且希望您能對此進行擴展，我假設您在 1 月初到目前為止所看到的要么是 EBITDA 收支平衡，要么最近產生了某種程度的正 EBITDA。

So pessimistic, Joe. We're more than breakeven.

太悲觀了，喬。我們不僅僅是收支平衡。

Am I?

我是嗎？

A lot more than breakeven, doing just fine. I'll ask Patrick to give us some color on those issues, but I think we're past the breakeven. We're now in the positive territory moving towards very positive territory. Patrick?

遠遠超過收支平衡，做得很好。我會請帕特里克就這些問題給我們一些顏色，但我認為我們已經過了盈虧平衡點。我們現在處於積極的領域，正朝著非常積極的領域發展。帕特里克？

Thanks, Rob. So a couple of things to note. Mix is important here. So as you know, we're a mass and premium mass and really a large-scale tourism investment company. And I think the key thing to note is the market is open.

謝謝，羅布。所以有幾點需要注意。混合在這裡很重要。如您所知，我們是一家大眾和優質大眾，真正是一家大型旅遊投資公司。我認為需要注意的關鍵是市場是開放的。

Liquidity is in the market. This is going to be a premium led recovery. We invested significantly during the pandemic. And the benefit of that investment is on full display. We have new suite products. We probably have the -- what we think is the best new property we've had in a long time, opened up in Macao.

流動性在市場上。這將是溢價主導的複蘇。我們在大流行期間投入了大量資金。這項投資的好處得到了充分展示。我們有新的套件產品。我們可能擁有 - 我們認為是很長一段時間以來最好的新物業，在澳門開業。

That investment is really showing power in the market right now today. There's significant non-gaming scale and investment that we've made that is bearing fruit. And so it's great to see the recovery. It's great to see the volumes coming back. It's interesting, I think, Rob has talked a lot about pent-up demand over the years. He's witnessed it in other places earlier in his career.

今天，這項投資確實在市場上顯示出力量。我們所做的非博彩規模和投資正在取得成果。所以很高興看到復蘇。很高興看到銷量回來了。這很有趣，我認為，羅布多年來一直在談論被壓抑的需求。在他職業生涯的早期，他曾在其他地方目睹過這種情況。

We saw it here in Las Vegas, and we experienced it fully in Singapore and now we're at a run rate that is really, really strong. And I think we're seeing that in Macao. I think the key thing is this is going to be a premium led recovery. In terms of breakeven, I don't think that's really a consideration anymore. I think we're way past it.

我們在拉斯維加斯看到了它，我們在新加坡也充分體驗到了它，現在我們的運行速度非常非常強勁。我認為我們在澳門看到了這一點。我認為關鍵是這將是一個溢價主導的複蘇。就盈虧平衡而言，我認為這不再是一個真正的考慮因素。我認為我們已經過去了。

Yes. Joe, I think we can be confident, be very honest and direct. We are in very positive territory and keep moving upside. I think the one thing I would say to you is that no one ever questions the power the base mass market. I would remind you I was looking at our numbers, base mass in Macao in our building costs about 1,500 Hong Kong per hand as an opening bet. So it's a couple of hundred bucks a hand USD. That's the base mass business.

是的。喬，我認為我們可以自信、非常誠實和直接。我們處於非常積極的領域，並繼續向上發展。我想我要對你說的一件事是，沒有人質疑基礎大眾市場的力量。我想提醒您，我正在查看我們的數字，我們建築物中澳門的基本質量作為開局賭注每手大約需要 1,500 港元。所以這是一手幾百美元美元。那是基礎大眾業務。

The problem we have right now is you can't get a seat in the games in our buildings. We're running 95%, 100% occupancy in those games. And the same applies to slot ETGs. The big question everyone's thinking about obviously is premium mass.

我們現在面臨的問題是您無法在我們大樓的比賽中獲得座位。我們在這些遊戲中運行 95%、100% 的佔用率。這同樣適用於插槽 ETG。每個人都在思考的大問題顯然是優質大眾。

And I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you can see the numbers coming out of the premium mass. And you'll see the liquidity, you'll see resilience in that segment. And it's been a very pleasant surprise. Grant, can you add some color to that?

而且我認為，當您看到來自優質大眾的數字時，您會感到驚喜。你會看到流動性，你會看到該部分的彈性。這是一個非常愉快的驚喜。格蘭特，你能給它加點顏色嗎？

I think the key thing we're seeing right now is that the quality of patronage is very high across all segments. So it's not just premium mass, it's also the base mass, it's in the retail segment. So we are seeing a very strong recovery in spend per customer.

我認為我們現在看到的關鍵是所有細分市場的讚助質量都非常高。所以它不僅僅是優質大眾，它也是基礎大眾，它在零售領域。因此，我們看到每位客戶的支出出現了非常強勁的複蘇。

And again, that's not concentrated in any one segment. It's extremely broad based. And I think what you're seeing in the public numbers on presentation were recovered. I think for CNY against 2019, we're about 40% of where we were in 2019, Chinese New Year for the first 3 days.

再一次，這並不集中在任何一個細分市場。它的基礎非常廣泛。而且我認為您在演示文稿的公眾號中看到的內容已恢復。我認為對於 2019 年的人民幣，我們大約是 2019 年的 40%，前 3 天是農曆新年。

And we're seeing revenues and volumes outperforming that visitation recovery, which is natural, which is what we've seen in other markets. So things are looking extremely positive right now.

我們看到收入和數量都超過了訪問量的恢復，這是很自然的，這是我們在其他市場看到的。所以現在情況看起來非常積極。

Great color, guys. And then maybe switching over to Singapore for my follow-up question. Obviously, your comments on mass gaming, Rob, obviously, very strong. Can you maybe talk a little bit about your comments that you believe on like forcing late December and thus far in January, there's been an inflection at least from the Mainland Chinese segment.

很棒的顏色，伙計們。然後可能會轉到新加坡回答我的後續問題。顯然，你對大眾遊戲的評論，Rob，顯然非常強烈。你能不能談談你認為在 12 月下旬和 1 月到目前為止的評論，至少中國大陸部分出現了變化。

Can you give us some perspective on the relative -- I don't know if you want to look at it on a revenue or EBITDA contribution looking at 2019 levels. And then where that was sort of more recently as a percentage of the total mix?

你能給我們一些關於相對的觀點嗎——我不知道你是否想從收入或 EBITDA 貢獻的角度來看 2019 年的水平。那麼最近在總組合中所佔的百分比是多少？

Yes. I'll let Patrick -- you want address that?

是的。我會讓帕特里克——你想解決這個問題嗎？

Yes, sure. I think the important thing to note is that there was this pent-up demand story in Singapore and now it's blossomed into full on bonanza. And so what we're really seeing is every segment is working.

是的，當然。我認為需要注意的重要一點是，新加坡曾有過這種被壓抑的需求故事，現在它在富礦中盛開。所以我們真正看到的是每個部分都在工作。

And so we had a lot of noise in this quarter because of the hold. We rolled north of $7 billion, which is pretty unbelievable considering where we came from. And the mass play was very, very strong. And so while we were doing this, we had almost 20% of our room inventory out.

因此，由於擱置，我們在本季度有很多噪音。我們的收入超過了 70 億美元，考慮到我們的出身，這簡直令人難以置信。群眾表演非常非常強大。因此，在我們這樣做的同時，我們幾乎 20% 的房間存貨都用完了。

And so when you look at that [$477] win number in mass and you look at the rolling volumes and realize we're out 20% of our rooms, there's a lot of leg room here. There's a lot of room for us to go. And so I want to be careful when we talk about margins and contribution because we're going to adjust that as we change mix, as we get rooms online as we go through the innovation, as we change our suite product, as we price up, as we yield up, and as we have access to higher value tourism.

因此，當您查看 [477 美元] 的中獎號碼時，您會看到滾動量並意識到我們 20% 的房間都出局了，這裡有很多腿部空間。我們有很大的空間可以去。因此，當我們談論利潤率和貢獻時，我要小心，因為我們將隨著我們改變組合、隨著我們通過創新獲得在線客房、隨著我們改變我們的套房產品、隨著我們定價而調整它，因為我們放棄了，因為我們可以獲得更高價值的旅遊。

So this is really a forward-looking thing more than it is what happened in this quarter because we're going to continue to sort of adjust while we get our mix right. So what I would look to in this business is margin expansion over time, more rooms coming online, better product, better service and, of course, being able to capture a very strong component of both VIP play and mass play.

因此，與本季度發生的事情相比，這確實是一件具有前瞻性的事情，因為我們將在正確組合的同時繼續進行某種調整。因此，我在這項業務中所期待的是隨著時間的推移利潤率的增長，更多的房間上線，更好的產品，更好的服務，當然，能夠在 VIP 遊戲和大眾遊戲中佔據非常強大的組成部分。

Joe, I think we're missing -- to Patrick's point, we're missing -- we're in a great place. We're back to 2000 -- we're back to [$1.6 billion] run rate if you take out the abnormal low hold on the rolling. But the 2 drivers that we just thought -- there's a lot of drivers, but the 2 jump off the page or renewed tours throughout Asia and China in particular.

喬，我認為我們錯過了——就帕特里克的觀點而言，我們錯過了——我們處在一個好地方。我們回到了 2000 年——如果你去掉滾動的異常低點，我們就會回到 [16 億美元] 的運行率。但我們剛剛想到的 2 位車手——有很多車手，但 2 位車手跳出頁面或重新開始了整個亞洲和中國的巡迴演出。

That's yet to come. We haven't -- we're doing all this -- we're in 2019 with no China participation and/or limited China participation. And as Patrick mentioned, a handicap physical plan, we are in a very, very fortunate position with MBS. I think it's going to become a property, a lot of growth. And I believe it's going to be a $2 billion business in the future.

那還沒有到來。我們沒有——我們正在做這一切——我們在 2019 年沒有中國參與和/或有限的中國參與。正如帕特里克提到的那樣，這是一項殘疾身體計劃，我們在 MBS 方面處於非常非常幸運的位置。我認為它會成為一種財產，會有很大的增長。我相信它在未來將成為一項價值 20 億美元的業務。

And I see nothing holding it back, except for our own renovations, which are extraordinary. I hope you get a chance to see it. And the reemergence of Asian tourism, including China back into the property. The only regret we have is Singapore. We just like to have more capacity because -- you'll see -- I think you'll see in this year the power of -- the earning power of MBS. It's an extraordinary product, and we're lucky to have it.

我看不出有什麼阻礙它的，除了我們自己的裝修，這是非凡的。我希望你有機會看到它。以及包括中國在內的亞洲旅遊業的重新崛起。我們唯一的遺憾是新加坡。我們只是想擁有更多的容量，因為 - 你會看到 - 我想你會在今年看到 - MBS 的盈利能力。這是一款非凡的產品，我們很幸運能擁有它。

And Patrick, just back to your mix and yield comment. Do we interpret that, at least if we look back to 2019, that, that China MBS patron was a -- had a positive mix on spend per trip or spend per day or gaming revenue per day?

帕特里克，回到你的混音和產量評論。我們是否認為，至少如果我們回顧 2019 年，中國 MBS 的讚助人是——在每次旅行或每天的消費或每天的博彩收入方面有積極的組合？

I think it's a combination of factors, Joe. I think, obviously, the China market is always powerful. But I also think there's cost issues in all these markets. There's this inflationary factors, undeniable, be it energy, wages -- I mean, there's a different world out there, and you've got to cope with it.

我認為這是多種因素的結合，喬。我認為，顯然，中國市場總是很強大。但我也認為所有這些市場都存在成本問題。有這種通貨膨脹因素，不可否認，無論是能源還是工資——我的意思是，那裡有一個不同的世界，你必須應對它。

But the thing about MBS that fascinates us is we believe we can drive revenues across the board. We're going to rethink our retail, rethink our table mix, our floor, our room pricing. We think we have a product that the demand will be close to insatiable for it, from the gamer and non-gamer perspective.

但讓我們著迷的 MBS 是我們相信我們可以全面推動收入。我們將重新考慮我們的零售，重新考慮我們的餐桌組合、我們的樓層、我們的房間定價。我們認為我們有一款產品，從遊戲玩家和非遊戲玩家的角度來看，需求將近乎無法滿足。

And we're going to overcome margin cost -- margin by overcoming costs with higher revenues, a lot higher revenues across the board in every segment. That's the approach. We see MBS as a very unique product that's unrivaled in that part of the world. And we can just push pricing across the board, gaming pricing, ADR pricing, retail pricing, F&B pricing, it's just that good and that desirable.

我們將克服保證金成本——通過提高收入來克服成本來保證利潤，每個細分市場的收入都要高得多。這就是方法。我們將 MBS 視為一種非常獨特的產品，在該地區無與倫比。我們可以全面推動定價，遊戲定價，ADR 定價，零售定價，餐飲定價，這就是那麼好，那麼可取。

And let's face it, the market right now is using our favor. Singapore is very desirable from a lot of perspectives.

讓我們面對現實吧，現在的市場正在利用我們的青睞。從很多角度來看，新加坡都非常令人嚮往。

And the next question is coming from Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行的 Carlo Santarelli。

Rob, or whoever wants to handle this, I was just wondering, in the brief time that China has more or less reopened, have you guys seen positive or negative, any change in behavior as it pertains to patronage at MBS?

Rob，或者任何想要處理這個問題的人，我只是想知道，在中國或多或少重新開放的短暫時間內，你們是否看到了積極或消極的行為變化，因為這與 MBS 的讚助有關？

MBS, that's a good question. I think it's too early to say we're going to see that. I see us as getting plenty of trying of participation, both in Macao and Singapore. But it's really too early to say. It just happened so quickly and the turnabout was so rapid that I think it's too hard to predict.

MBS，這是個好問題。我認為現在說我們會看到這一點還為時過早。我認為我們在澳門和新加坡都進行了大量的參與嘗試。但現在說真的還為時過早。它發生得太快了，轉變太快了，我覺得很難預測。

I think the way this is going to segment though is that we're going to get more than our fair share of the rolling business in MBS. That moves in that direction, and we'll get the premium mass customer to visit more into Macao.

我認為這將細分的方式是我們將獲得超過我們在 MBS 滾動業務中的公平份額。朝著這個方向發展，我們將吸引優質大眾客戶更多地訪問澳門。

I think our business really is going to split in that direction. I think it's very predictable what's going to happen here, and we're okay with that. So Singapore will get the top of the top. But each of those places will get tons of premium mass demand from China and throughout the region.

我認為我們的業務真的會朝那個方向拆分。我認為這裡將要發生的事情是可以預見的，我們對此沒有意見。因此，新加坡將名列前茅。但這些地方中的每一個都將獲得來自中國和整個地區的大量優質大眾需求。

I also think people underestimate how powerful Macao can become as a desirable visitation place throughout china. It's got everything. It's got the rooms, it's got the access, it's got the -- one thing, it has beyond Singapore, it's has lots of capacity and lots to offer.

我還認為人們低估了澳門作為全中國理想旅遊勝地的強大力量。它擁有一切。它有房間，有通道，有——有一件事，它超越了新加坡，它有很多容量和很多東西可以提供。

So I think Macao is going to be a very strong international destinations ahead. We plan to be very aggressive trying to push people into Macao to see the property, all of our products.

所以我認為澳門將成為未來非常強大的國際目的地。我們計劃非常積極地嘗試推動人們進入澳門參觀該物業以及我們所有的產品。

That makes sense, Rob. And then just as a follow-up, and I understand kind of looking backwards at things that are Macao related is somewhat pointless in the environment that we're in right now. But it's just -- it does stand out a little bit when looking at your base and premium mass table revenues from the slide deck, your premium mass is representing, I think, 20% of 4Q '19 base mass kind of more like mid-teens, [16], something like that.

這是有道理的，羅伯。然後作為後續行動，我知道在我們現在所處的環境中，回顧與澳門相關的事情有點毫無意義。但這只是 - 當從幻燈片上查看您的基本和高級質量表收入時，它確實有點突出，我認為您的高級質量代表了 19 年第四季度基本質量的 20％，更像是中期 -青少年，[16]，類似的東西。

However, the premium mass is down considerably year-over-year, whereas the base mass is reasonably steady year-over-year. Is that a whole dynamic on just lower than normal historical volumes? Or is there something else that's kind of made those 2 diverge more recently here, and then the fourth quarter specifically?

然而，優質質量同比大幅下降，而基礎質量同比相當穩定。這是僅低於正常歷史交易量的整體動態嗎？或者是否有其他原因讓這兩個最近在這裡出現分歧，然後是第四季度？

No, I think it's just a visitation issue. It's not a whole issue. It's visitation is sure. I think you're going to find that washes out. I wouldn't take those numbers too much to heart. I think when you look at Q1, I wish when you see January, when those numbers are out there for the market, I think it will all wash away quite nicely.

不，我認為這只是一個訪問問題。這不是一個完整的問題。它的訪問是肯定的。我想你會發現它被洗掉了。我不會太在意這些數字。我想當你看第一季度時，我希望當你看到 1 月份時，當這些數字出現在市場上時，我認為這一切都會很好地消失。

It won't be -- it won't enter into your thinking, Carlo. It's a nonevent. I think you'll see a surprising strength in both those segments. I would say in Macao, we're going to be very strong, very represented in the base mass because we have the capacity. We're a scale player.

它不會 - 它不會進入你的想法，Carlo。這是一個無關緊要的事情。我認為你會在這兩個領域看到驚人的實力。我會說在澳門，我們會非常強大，在基層群眾中非常有代表性，因為我們有能力。我們是規模玩家。

And so we have the capacity in the gaming, non-gaming, retail, restaurant space to do extraordinary things in the base mass. And again, as I'll reiterate, base mass in Macao is a different animal than the U.S. It's a $200 base bet, $175 base bet. So pretty special customer. We are going to represent because of our scale. But on the other hand, with all of our suite product, et cetera, I think we'll also be the leaders in the premium mass business.

因此，我們有能力在博彩、非博彩、零售、餐廳領域為大眾做非凡的事情。再一次，正如我要重申的那樣，澳門的基本質量與美國不同。它是 200 美元的基本賭注，175 美元的基本賭注。非常特別的客戶。我們將代表我們的規模。但另一方面，憑藉我們所有的套房產品等，我認為我們也將成為優質大眾業務的領導者。

So we have a very strong future ahead of us in Macao. I always chuckle, people, if you're looking for a negative commentary in the Macao market, you're in the rolling earnings call.

因此，我們在澳門擁有非常美好的未來。我總是輕笑，人們，如果你在尋找澳門市場的負面評論，你就在滾動的財報電話會議上。

Understood. And then, Rob, just quickly, if you could remind us, to the extent you guys are willing to share it, 2019, your direct VIP volume, your in-house VIP volume as a percentage of total, would you guys be able to share something like that?

明白了。然後，Rob，快點，如果你能提醒我們，在你們願意分享的範圍內，2019 年，你們的直接 VIP 量，你們的內部 VIP 量佔總量的百分比，你們能不能分享類似的東西？

We would, but we won't.

我們會，但我們不會。

Understood. You could, but you won't.

明白了。你可以，但你不會。

We could share it, we just won't. No, we're not going to do that. But Carlo, thank you. It's good to hear from you.

我們可以分享它，我們只是不會。不，我們不會那樣做。但是卡羅，謝謝你。很高興收到你的來信。

The next question is coming from Stephen Grambling from Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Stephen Grambling。

Can you hear me okay?

你能聽到我說話嗎？

Pretty clear, Stephen. Go ahead.

很清楚，斯蒂芬。前進。

So the visitation data for Chinese near looks like Hong Kong has been the bigger driver in the recent uptick in visitation. Is there any way to parse out recovery between Hong Kong and Mainland China? And any reason why spending behavior and recovery may be different between these source markets?

因此，附近中國人的訪問數據看起來香港是近期訪問量上升的更大推動力。有沒有辦法解析香港和中國大陸之間的恢復？這些來源市場之間的支出行為和復蘇可能不同的原因是什麼？

Yes. And I've got a perfect answer to that. Mr. Chum?

是的。我對此有一個完美的答案。楚先生？

Yes, you can see from the visitation numbers been published by the Tourism Bureau. The Mainland Chinese visitation is at about 30% recovery rate versus 2019 CNY. So obviously, with a 40% recovery for overall visitations, Hong Kong visitation recovery has been higher.

是的，你可以從旅遊局公佈的參觀人數上看出來。與 2019 年春節相比，中國大陸游客的恢復率約為 30%。很明顯，整體訪問量恢復了 40%，香港的訪問量恢復率更高。

Mainly, I think, as a result of just the ease with which they've been able to go. And obviously, Hong Kong has had a longer stabilized situation with, as it relates to the pandemic. So I think from a pure visitation point of view, it's just not unexpected.

我認為，主要是因為他們能夠輕鬆進行。顯然，由於與大流行有關，香港的局勢穩定了更長的時間。所以我認為從純粹的訪問角度來看，這並不意外。

And bear in mind, the transportation support for the Hong Kong visitor only really opened up on the eighth of January. So this has been a very rapid increase in Hong Kong visitations. That said, I think we referenced back to the comments that Rob made earlier and I alluded to as well, I wouldn't get too stuck on the visitation recovery.

請記住，對香港遊客的交通支持在 1 月 8 日才真正開放。因此，香港的訪問量增長非常迅速。也就是說，我認為我們參考了 Rob 之前發表的評論，我也提到過，我不會太拘泥於探視恢復。

I think in these types of reopening, we're going to see the premium customers come back first. The core customer coming back as a much bigger percentage than the overall visitation. So I think what we're seeing is the quality of revenues and the patronage from all regions that visit in Chinese New Year has been very, very high.

我認為在這些類型的重新開放中，我們將首先看到優質客戶回來。核心客戶回來的比例比整體訪問量大得多。所以我認為我們看到的是收入質量，所有地區在農曆新年期間的光顧都非常非常高。

So we are way outperforming the visitation recovery in terms of volumes and revenue. And indeed, I think if you look at our property visitations our recovery rate in visitations to our own property, is far outperforming the recovery in the overall visitation numbers in the market versus 2019.

因此，我們在數量和收入方面的表現遠遠超過了訪問恢復。事實上，我認為如果你看一下我們的房產訪問量，我們對自己房產的訪問量恢復率遠遠超過市場整體訪問量與 2019 年相比的恢復率。

Steve, to Grant's comment just, again, we don't want to confuse visitation with GGR. There's not necessarily an easy way to make them work. I was recently in Singapore, I walked in one of our retail stores with our retail person and she told me the sales in the store were like USD 70 million. And I said there's nobody here, no one in the store.

史蒂夫，對於格蘭特的評論，我們不想將探視與 GGR 混淆。不一定有使它們工作的簡單方法。我最近在新加坡，我和我們的零售人員一起走進我們的一家零售店，她告訴我店裡的銷售額大約是 7000 萬美元。我說這裡沒有人，店裡沒有人。

And she said, Rob, we only need the right people, not a lot of people. I think that's what's happening in Macao, we gained the right people showing up in mass, and it's reflecting in the numbers. You'll see that when the market numbers come out. I think the early adapters to the market are the right people for the market. And I think that's why there's a confusion in the visitation versus the actual revenues.

她說，羅伯，我們只需要合適的人，不需要很多人。我認為這就是澳門正在發生的事情，我們讓合適的人大量出現，這反映在數字上。當市場數據出來時，你會看到這一點。我認為市場的早期適應者是市場的合適人選。我認為這就是為什麼訪問量與實際收入存在混淆的原因。

Makes sense. And maybe as a related follow-up there, there's been a similar dynamic, stronger spend per visitor in the U.S. that ultimately drove much better margins. How are you thinking about the puts and takes to margins in Macao versus what we've seen in other markets?

說得通。也許作為那裡的相關後續行動，美國也出現了類似的動態、更強的每位訪客支出，最終帶來了更高的利潤率。與我們在其他市場看到的情況相比，您如何看待澳門的保證金看跌期權和看跌期權？

Grant, margins?

格蘭特，利潤率？

Yes. I think first of all, our cost structure is in good shape. It's been -- unfortunately, we've had to spend extra effort in optimizing the cost structure over the past 2 or 3 years. So we've got a very lean cost base right now. In terms of gross margins on the revenue, I think a couple of things. One is our mix, obviously, is more favorable going forward just from a gross margin mix perspective simply because a vast majority of our revenues will be coming from the non-rolling and slot segments.

是的。我認為首先，我們的成本結構狀況良好。不幸的是，在過去的 2 或 3 年裡，我們不得不付出額外的努力來優化成本結構。所以我們現在有一個非常精簡的成本基礎。就收入的毛利率而言，我認為有幾件事。一個是我們的組合，顯然，從毛利率組合的角度來看，我們的組合更有利，因為我們的絕大部分收入將來自非滾動和插槽部分。

And then secondly, the non-gaming, we expect to be growing, and that's obviously a much higher margin. We expect to be growing retail, hotel, F&B, actually all the non-gaming segments. So that's the structural framework for the margin.

其次，我們預計非博彩業務會增長，這顯然是一個更高的利潤率。我們預計將增長零售、酒店、餐飲，實際上是所有非博彩領域。這就是保證金的結構框架。

But obviously, the actual flow-through in the percentage margin we ultimately deliver from this very positive structure is really dependent on the rate of volume recovery. So we still need the top line to recover to a certain level before you get the flow through.

但顯然，我們最終從這個非常積極的結構中交付的百分比保證金的實際流通量實際上取決於體積恢復率。因此，在流量通過之前，我們仍然需要頂線恢復到一定水平。

And then to go beyond that, obviously, we hope and we all are working towards that, is for this market to continue to grow and, hopefully, at least in the mass segments and non-gaming segments glad to go beyond where we were in 2019. So if that happens, obviously, our margin structure should be very positive. So hopefully, that gives you a sense of how we think about the structure of margins going forward.

然後超越這一點，顯然，我們希望並且我們都在為此努力，是為了讓這個市場繼續增長，並且希望至少在大眾細分市場和非遊戲細分市場很高興超越我們所處的位置2019 年。因此，如果發生這種情況，顯然，我們的保證金結構應該非常積極。所以希望這能讓你了解我們如何看待未來的利潤率結構。

And the next question is coming from Robin Farley from UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀的 Robin Farley。

I wanted to ask, you've obviously always been very focused on the mass business there. But some of your competitors that have been more VIP focused, are you seeing them do things differently now that there's not the VIP market to go after in the same way there had been? Is that -- is it too soon to be seeing what changes that might mean?

我想問，你顯然一直非常關注那裡的大眾業務。但是你的一些競爭對手更專注於 VIP，你是否看到他們現在做事有所不同，因為 VIP 市場不再像以前那樣追求了？那是——現在看可能意味著什麼變化還為時過早嗎？

I would assume it is, but I'll defer to Grant since he's on the ground. I can't imagine we have any visibility into that at this point. But clearly, we have a new market here, which favors our asset base. And our approach for the last 20 years has been scale. As you well know, Robin, it's a mass story with premium mass and retail commencing, et cetera.

我想是的，但我會聽從格蘭特的意見，因為他在現場。我無法想像我們目前對此有任何了解。但顯然，我們這裡有一個新市場，有利於我們的資產基礎。在過去的 20 年裡，我們的方法一直是規模化。正如你所知，羅賓，這是一個大眾故事，優質大眾和零售開始，等等。

So we don't have things like -- it's tailor made for what we do, this environment. Our competitors will adapt and have to change. But I don't know. Grant, any color on that?

所以我們沒有這樣的東西——它是為我們所做的、這個環境量身定做的。我們的競爭對手將適應並不得不改變。但我不知道。格蘭特，上面有顏色嗎？

Yes. I think, Robin, the competition for premium mass has always been very intense. And I think we'll continue to be, given the dynamics you just referenced. At the same time, I think as Rob says, we've got a footprint and scale advantage on our (inaudible) non-gaming asset facilities, I think really position us very well for all segments of mass.

是的。我認為，羅賓，優質大眾的競爭一直非常激烈。鑑於您剛才提到的動態，我認為我們將繼續如此。與此同時，我認為正如 Rob 所說，我們在（聽不清的）非博彩資產設施上擁有足跡和規模優勢，我認為我們在大眾的所有細分市場中都處於非常有利的地位。

And then as Patrick referenced at the outset, the product that we've been developing for the last 3 years, especially, The London and the Grand Suites at Four Seasons, are really prime position to help us be more competitive the premium lifestyle segments up in market as well as, I think, hopefully, to drive overall high-value tourism to Macao over the coming years.

然後正如帕特里克在一開始提到的那樣，我們在過去 3 年中一直在開發的產品，尤其是倫敦酒店和四季酒店的大套房，確實處於領先地位，可以幫助我們在高端生活方式細分市場上更具競爭力在市場上，我認為，有希望在未來幾年推動澳門的整體高價值旅遊業。

And I do as to point about international tourism as well. I think our footprint to combine with our new products and our traditional strength in MICE, in international marketing network really position us very well to bring those high-value guests to Macao as well.

我也想談談國際旅遊。我認為我們的足跡與我們的新產品以及我們在 MICE 和國際營銷網絡中的傳統優勢相結合，確實使我們能夠很好地將這些高價值的客人也帶到澳門。

Great. And then just for my follow-up question on Macao. Can you give us sort of a rough sense of that dollar commitment that you've made to invest over the next 10 years in Macao? Kind of roughly what percent of that might be new projects and what percent might be -- might kind of fall into the OpEx line, kind of like overseas marketing and things? Just kind of CapEx versus OpEx split, just ballpark?

偉大的。然後是關於澳門的後續問題。您能否大致介紹一下您未來 10 年在澳門投資的美元承諾？大概有多少百分比可能是新項目，多少百分比可能 - 可能屬於 OpEx 系列，有點像海外營銷之類的？只是資本支出與運營支出的分裂，只是大概？

Yes. Sure. I think one thing that would be helpful. If you turn to Page 22 in the presentation, you'll see some details on that. So it might be best to refer to those pages because we do break it out, and there are several pages behind it that explain what our concession renewal commitments actually are. So it's there in the presentation.

是的。當然。我認為有一件事會有所幫助。如果您翻到演示文稿中的第 22 頁，您會看到一些詳細信息。因此，最好參考這些頁面，因為我們確實將其分解，並且其後面有幾頁解釋了我們的特許權更新承諾實際上是什麼。所以它在演示文稿中。

It's always tough to get through all of your slides before the earnings call.

在財報電話會議之前通讀所有幻燈片總是很困難。

I apologize. I think the key thing here is that we're very committed to investing in the Macao market. We think this investment will drive additional long-term tourism value and diversification of Macao's economy. We're very excited to make these investments, and we think these are things that will really help achieve our goals in the goals of the government. So we're looking forward to it actually.

我道歉。我認為這裡的關鍵是我們非常致力於投資澳門市場。我們認為這項投資將帶來額外的長期旅遊價值和澳門經濟的多元化。我們很高興進行這些投資，我們認為這些是真正有助於實現政府目標的事情。所以我們實際上很期待它。

The next question is coming from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Shaun Kelley。

So just high level, as you kind of look through kind of what you're seeing probably real time, could you give us just your latest thoughts on maybe the pace of recovery here? Do you expect things to be pretty linear or any chance of whether it's COVID or restriction-related setbacks or anything else that could change what you're seeing on the ground?

所以只是高水平，當你看你可能實時看到的東西時，你能給我們一些關於這裡恢復速度的最新想法嗎？您是否希望事情是線性的，或者是否有可能是 COVID 或與限制相關的挫折或任何其他可能改變您在實地看到的情況的機會？

And obviously, Chinese New Year is fantastic. But it would seem like the opening here is just going to continue. Any reason that, that would be kind of different from the reality? Or how are you seeing your bookings shape up and the patterns you're expecting to see over the next couple of months?

顯然，中國新年很棒。但似乎這裡的開放將繼續下去。任何原因，這會與現實有所不同？或者您如何看待您的預訂情況以及您期望在接下來的幾個月內看到的模式？

I'd begin by saying, first of all, we're just thrilled to be open and making money and seeing demand like we're seeing. I don't think any of us have the aptitude or the insight to tell you what's going to happen -- they have post-change news. But I do think longer term, you have to have real strong confidence. And you see -- when you get to see these numbers that we are seeing that this is a market that's going to rebound. This market has a strong base mass, premium mass.

我首先要說的是，首先，我們很高興能夠像我們所看到的那樣開放並賺錢並看到需求。我不認為我們中的任何人都有能力或洞察力告訴你將要發生什麼——他們有變革後的消息。但我確實認為從長遠來看，你必須有真正強大的信心。你看——當你看到這些數字時，我們就會看到這是一個即將反彈的市場。這個市場有強大的基礎質量，高端質量。

And some of the fears be in the market about, it was liquidity like, what's resiliency, I think those fears will be pushed to the side. What's the trajectory and how fast it happens? I don't think any of us have the gumption to make venture a guess. I think it would be silly.

市場上存在一些關於流動性的擔憂，比如什麼是彈性，我認為這些擔憂將被推到一邊。軌跡是什麼，發生的速度有多快？我認為我們中的任何人都沒有冒險去猜測的勇氣。我認為這很愚蠢。

We just feel fortunate we're open. We're operating. We think it keeps getting better, not worse. I don't believe COVID is going to be -- obviously, China has gone through a different trajectory than we did here in the U.S. But hopefully, that won't be a problem.

我們很幸運我們是開放的。我們在經營。我們認為它會變得更好，而不是更糟。我不相信 COVID 會——顯然，中國經歷了與我們在美國不同的軌跡。但希望這不會成為問題。

Again, I don't want to speak anything that I can't speak for. But if things keep going like they're going, we'll all be in a very happy place in 2023, especially, I think, somewhere in the second half of the year. As normal travel patterns resume, Hong Kong gets back on speed, Mainland China. I think there's a lot of growth potential and a lot of good thoughts coming our way vis-a-vis the future.

再一次，我不想說任何我不能代表的事情。但如果事情繼續像現在這樣發展，我們都會在 2023 年過得很開心，尤其是我認為，在下半年的某個時候。隨著正常的旅行模式恢復，香港恢復了中國大陸的速度。我認為未來有很大的增長潛力和很多好的想法。

We are -- again, as I said earlier, we're not going to tell you that we don't believe in this -- we believe in this stroy very strongly. We believe in our assets very strongly. We believe in international tourism in Macao very strongly. So we're not going to predict when it happens, how it happens, how fast it happens.

我們 - 再一次，正如我之前所說，我們不會告訴你我們不相信這個 - 我們非常相信這個故事。我們非常相信我們的資產。我們非常看好澳門的國際旅遊業。所以我們不會預測它何時發生，如何發生，發生的速度有多快。

But we feel very positive about what's going to happen in Macao in the long term, very positive. And we're looking to investing money in there and getting back to where we were in the past in Macao. We couldn't be more positive on the can long term.

但從長遠來看，我們對澳門將要發生的事情感到非常樂觀，非常積極。我們希望在那裡投資並回到過去在澳門的狀態。從長遠來看，我們再樂觀不過了。

Great. And then maybe a little bit more specific one for Grant, if I may. But just wanting to dig in a little bit more on the labor and staffing side of what you're seeing in Macao right now. You talked about the margin structure high level. But are you fully expecting to return to levels of staff that you had pre-COVID? Are you already there? Will it be even above those levels?

偉大的。如果可以的話，也許可以為 Grant 講一些更具體的問題。但只是想深入了解一下您現在在澳門看到的勞動力和人員配置方面的情況。你談到了高水平的保證金結構。但是您是否完全希望恢復到 COVID 之前的員工水平？你已經在那裡了嗎？它會高於這些水平嗎？

Kind of what's needed and what have you optimized? I know those people have -- many of them have found employment elsewhere, the market has grown since where we started. So kind of how do you think about maybe either FTEs or overall operating expense run rates relative to 2019?

需要什麼，您優化了什麼？我知道那些人 - 他們中的許多人在其他地方找到了工作，市場自我們開始以來一直在增長。那麼，您如何看待 FTE 或相對於 2019 年的整體運營費用運行率？

I think, Shaun, we've also become more productive and efficient through the past couple of years. So I think we'll have to rethink -- it wouldn't necessarily be referencing exactly back to 2019. And also a mix of product has also changed quite a bit through the Londoner.

我認為，肖恩，在過去的幾年裡我們也變得更有生產力和效率了。所以我認為我們必須重新考慮——它不一定要準確地追溯到 2019 年。而且，倫敦人的產品組合也發生了很大變化。

We do have more high-quality non-gaming asset base to operate as well. So to give you a bit more color, today, we are short of manpower relative to full operating capacity and relative to the demand that we're seeing. So we're not operating one of the Sheraton Towers as we speak. So we are minus 2,200 rooms from our operating capacity. And our (inaudible) hotel Londoner Court, which we soft opened in the past year, we're not at the full operating capacity for that high end all-suite hotel. We're still only about 2/3 of the way through in terms of ability of manpower to operate the whole hotel.

我們也有更多優質的非博彩資產基礎可以經營。因此，為了給你更多的顏色，今天，相對於我們所看到的全部運營能力和需求，我們缺乏人力。因此，在我們說話的時候，我們並沒有在運營喜來登酒店之一。因此，我們的運營能力減少了 2,200 間客房。而我們在過去一年試營業的（聽不清）酒店 Londoner Court，我們還沒有達到該高端全套房酒店的全部運營能力。就人力運營整個酒店的能力而言，我們仍然只完成了大約 2/3。

So both at the top end and at the mass end, we are still short of manpower to operate at full capacity. And we'll be progressively hiring to fill the gaps as we go through the recovery. And hopefully, within the next few months, we're going to be in a better place relative to our full operating potential because we clearly see the demand pattern, I think is going to urge the whole industry to staff up and to be able to operate, especially for these peak periods.

因此，無論是高端還是大眾，我們仍然缺乏人手來滿負荷運轉。在我們經歷復甦的過程中，我們將逐步招聘以填補空缺。希望在接下來的幾個月內，相對於我們的全部運營潛力，我們將處於一個更好的位置，因為我們清楚地看到需求模式，我認為這將敦促整個行業增加人員並能夠運行，尤其是在這些高峰期。

And that's another part. We have no crystal ball as Rob says served on the post CNY. But clearly, the early indications of metrics like the demand for the hotels is telling you that, yes, the demand is staging a strong recovery. And obviously, we're going to have (inaudible).

那是另一部分。我們沒有水晶球，正如 Rob 在 CNY 職位上所說的那樣。但很明顯，酒店需求等指標的早期跡象告訴你，是的，需求正在強勁復甦。顯然，我們將擁有（聽不清）。

The next question is coming from Chad Beynon from Macquarie.

下一個問題來自 Macquarie 的 Chad Beynon。

In the slide deck, you highlighted principal areas of development being Macao, which we just talked about, Singapore, which we talked about, and New York, which I was wondering if you could elaborate a little bit more on.

在幻燈片中，您強調了我們剛才談到的澳門、新加坡和紐約的主要發展區域，我想知道您是否可以再詳細說明一下。

But second part of that question is, I know in the past, you talked about other potential opportunities in Asia like a Korea or a Thailand, years ago we talked about Japan. Wondering if those are going quiet at this time. So I guess, firstly, on New York, and then secondly, potential Asian opportunities?

但這個問題的第二部分是，我知道過去，你談到了亞洲的其他潛在機會，比如韓國或泰國，幾年前我們談到了日本。想知道此時是否會安靜下來。所以我想，首先是在紐約，然後是潛在的亞洲機會？

Chad, let's revert your mind, I'll reverse it just. I think we all know that Thailand has been discussions there, and we're certainly looking at Thailand. And that's no secret has been in the press that Thailand is a possibility. So we're certainly looking hard at Thailand. I would love to be -- have a presence there in the future.

乍得，讓我們改變主意，我會改變它。我想我們都知道泰國一直在那裡進行討論，我們當然也在關注泰國。泰國有可能成為媒體的消息已經不是什麼秘密了。所以我們當然在努力尋找泰國。我很樂意 - 將來在那裡出現。

Japan, as you referenced, is not there. And Korea is nothing viable to speak of today. So we'll jump to New York, which is an extraordinary and unique opportunity. And I think for the winning bidder or bidders, it's going to be a an amazing opportunity because of a very simple dynamic of a huge market with limited capacity.

正如你所提到的，日本不在那裡。韓國今天也沒什麼可談的。所以我們會跳到紐約，這是一個非凡而獨特的機會。我認為對於中標者或競標者來說，這將是一個了不起的機會，因為容量有限的巨大市場的動態非常簡單。

There's only a few casinos there. It's probably the only place in the U.S. where you can have millions and millions of people, and yet there'll be probably just a handful of casinos total. The win per units there will be exceptional. The lucky winner is going to do very, very well. I think the evidence of the market is clear just by looking at the 3 operating properties under the table games. And we really don't have much of a -- it's not a great product right now in New York as far as room capacity.

那裡只有幾家賭場。它可能是美國唯一可以擁有數百萬人口的地方，但總共可能只有少數幾個賭場。每單位的勝利將是非凡的。幸運的獲勝者將會做得非常非常好。我認為只要看看桌面遊戲下的 3 個運營屬性，市場的證據就很清楚。而且我們真的沒有太多 - 就房間容量而言，它現在在紐約並不是一個很好的產品。

It's still doing approaching USD 2 billion with just slot machines. So our approach is very much in LVS, it's anchored by an LDH historical approach, which is scale and quality. We're not looking to build a casino, looking to build not a regional casino but rather a truly large hotel with spa convention space, dozens of restaurants, a new theater, a huge entertainment feature, a transformational product, which will positively impact the community and grow tourism a powerful statement.

僅靠老虎機，它的收入就接近 20 億美元。所以我們的方法在很大程度上是在 LVS 中，它以 LDH 歷史方法為基礎，即規模和質量。我們不是要建造賭場，不是要建造區域性賭場，而是要建造一個真正的大型酒店，擁有水療會議空間、數十家餐廳、一個新劇院、一個巨大的娛樂功能、一個轉型產品，這將對社區和發展旅遊業是一個強有力的聲明。

We're not looking to be in this thing in a limited way. We'll be all the way in. And we think if we do it, it will be transformational for the county we're working in, very good for the people in the county and something they can be very proud of. And it will drive tourism -- outsized tourism into Nassau.

我們不希望以有限的方式參與這件事。我們會全力以赴。我們認為，如果我們這樣做，這將對我們工作所在的縣產生變革，對縣里的人民來說非常好，他們可以為此感到自豪。它將推動旅遊業——大型旅遊業進入拿騷。

Our bid is very much traditional on the thinking of LVS large-scale with numerous non-gaming assets, lots of meeting space, probably 400,000 square per foot [new space]. So I view New York very much very unique to the rest of the United States. It's not -- it's a population in the many millions to just a couple of casinos, very different here in Las Vegas. We've got a huge local market but dozens and dozens and dozens of casinos.

我們的出價是非常傳統的 LVS 大型思維，擁有眾多非遊戲資產、大量會議空間，每英尺可能有 400,000 平方英尺 [新空間]。因此，我認為紐約與美國其他地區相比非常獨特。它不是 - 它的人口數以百萬計，只有幾個賭場，在拉斯維加斯這裡非常不同。我們有一個巨大的本地市場，但還有數十家賭場。

There you'll be basically alone. And so it's going to be very -- it's an exceptional opportunity. It won't come along again. I think this is one and done. So we're trying very hard. And we've been trying to do New York for a number of years, but it looks like this is finally someone's opportunity. Hopefully, it's ours.

在那裡你基本上是一個人。所以這將是非常——這是一個難得的機會。它不會再出現了。我認為這已經完成了。所以我們非常努力。多年來，我們一直在嘗試做紐約，但看起來這終於是某人的機會了。希望這是我們的。

And then secondly, I just wanted to ask another one on Macao, now that you've had some more data in the market, Grant. It seems like there's an even bigger shift towards Peninsula -- or I'm sorry, versus to Cotai versus Peninsula than we've seen in the past. I was wondering if you could confirm that or if that's really just kind of a mix of a reflection of what we're seeing from the different modes of transportation. Wondering if that's a trend that could continue in '23. And then related to that, how are you thinking about your asset and the Peninsula there's CapEx opportunities? I know that's not part of the big CapEx plan.

其次，我只想問另一個關於澳門的問題，既然你在市場上有更多的數據，格蘭特。似乎有一個更大的轉向半島 - 或者我很抱歉，相對於我們過去看到的路氹和半島。我想知道你是否可以證實這一點，或者這是否真的只是我們從不同交通方式中看到的反映的一種混合。想知道這種趨勢是否會在 23 年繼續下去。然後與此相關，你如何看待你的資產和半島有資本支出的機會？我知道這不是大型資本支出計劃的一部分。

Grant?

授予？

Sure. Rob, should I take that? Yes.

當然。羅布，我應該接受嗎？是的。

Yes. I think I haven't seen any data on the split between Cotai and Peninsula. However, it stands to reason, I think, structurally, we see -- and we have always said that Cotai will become the primary hub. And I think even pre-COVID, we were already more than half of the mass revenues from Cotai. And I think that trend will continue. I think there's a lot of different reasons.

是的。我想我還沒有看到任何關於路氹和半島分拆的數據。然而，我認為，從結構上看，這是有道理的——我們一直說路氹城將成為主要樞紐。而且我認為即使在 COVID 之前，我們也已經佔路氹大眾收入的一半以上。我認為這種趨勢將繼續下去。我認為有很多不同的原因。

But I think at its heart, the main reason is just the cluster of world class integrated resorts that you have on Cotai. And what this, I think, next generation of these lifestyle consumers are looking for from Macao as a destination, and all of the investments in non-gaming that are going into basically making these results even more desirable over the next 10 years, all of those structural factors are surely will continue to push the balance of revenues towards the Cotai side, and that's a structural issue that will continue to evolve over the long time.

但我認為，從根本上說，主要原因是路氹城擁有世界級的綜合度假村群。我認為，這些生活方式的下一代消費者正在尋找澳門作為目的地，所有非博彩投資基本上都會使這些結果在未來 10 年內更加令人滿意，所有這些結構性因素肯定會繼續將收入平衡推向路氹方面，這是一個將在很長一段時間內繼續演變的結構性問題。

As regards to -- we obviously have one asset on the Peninsula, we do intend to reinvest in that asset. But it clearly the majority -- the vast majority of our capital will still be going towards our Cotai properties.

至於——我們顯然在半島擁有一項資產，我們確實打算對該資產進行再投資。但它顯然是大多數 - 我們的絕大部分資金仍將用於我們的路氹物業。

The next question is coming from Brandt Montour from Barclays.

下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的 Brandt Montour。

Starting on Singapore. I was curious if you could compare the spend per visitor that you're seeing there to what we saw in Las Vegas in 2020 and 2021. If that's sort of holding up in the same way, if it's -- if the curve looks different quarter-over-quarter. And then if you want to throw Macao early days into that comparison, that would also be helpful.

從新加坡開始。我很好奇你是否可以將你在那裡看到的每位訪客的支出與我們在 2020 年和 2021 年在拉斯維加斯看到的進行比較。如果這在某種程度上保持一致，如果它是 - 如果曲線看起來不同季度-超過季度。然後，如果您想將澳門早期納入比較，那也會有所幫助。

Yes. I think it's really hard to compare between markets. The key thing to note is that it's really all about pent-up demand, consumer tourism experience and the products that we offer. And sort of the nature of those assets for high-quality tourism.

是的。我認為很難在市場之間進行比較。需要注意的關鍵是，這實際上完全與被壓抑的需求、消費者旅遊體驗和我們提供的產品有關。以及那些用於高質量旅遊的資產的性質。

So it's not really fair to compare between markets. The price points are different, the consumer behaviors are different. It really doesn't look the same. What is thematically similar is the pent-up demand story. And Rob -- as I said before, Rob's seen it in his career in other locations.

因此，在市場之間進行比較並不公平。價格點不同，消費者行為不同。它看起來真的不一樣。主題相似的是被壓抑的需求故事。羅布——正如我之前所說，羅佈在他的職業生涯中曾在其他地方看到過它。

We experienced here in Las Vegas in a very strong way. We saw it in Singapore in a very strong way, and it's still in effect and we're starting to see them in Macao now and it's coming on strong. So I think it's really the nature of consumer behavior as opposed to the specific price points in each market.

我們在拉斯維加斯以非常強烈的方式體驗了這裡。我們在新加坡以非常強大的方式看到了它，它仍然有效，我們現在開始在澳門看到它們，而且它正在變得強大。所以我認為這真的是消費者行為的本質，而不是每個市場的具體價格點。

It's (inaudible) to Patrick's point, think about what Singapore is market GGR versus Macao, Macao could be a $25 billion, $30 billion GGR market has been higher historically. And Singapore just doesn't have the capacity. And then Las Vegas is much more of a -- it's got a gaming component, it's got a very strong non-gaming. So it's almost impossible to apples-to-apples.

這（聽不清）帕特里克的觀點，想想新加坡是什麼市場 GGR 與澳門，澳門可能是 250 億美元，300 億美元的 GGR 市場歷史上更高。而新加坡就是沒有這個能力。然後拉斯維加斯更像是一個 - 它有一個遊戲組件，它有一個非常強大的非遊戲。因此，蘋果對蘋果幾乎是不可能的。

The driving force is the scale of people in Macao in Singapore -- in Mainland China, the accessibility to adjustable market is so huge in Macao. And so the product offering. To Grant's point, the Peninsula, versus the Cotai, it's got such enormous capacity and great product. It's hard to -- that market is so outsized when it just back at full capacity, it's hard to compare than anything. It's so powerful.

推動力是新加坡在澳門的人口規模——在中國大陸，澳門可調整市場的可及性非常大。產品供應也是如此。就格蘭特而言，半島與路氹相比，它擁有如此巨大的容量和出色的產品。很難 - 當它剛剛恢復滿負荷時，這個市場是如此之大，很難比任何東西。它是如此強大。

Okay. Okay. And then on Slide 22, the long-term commitments in Macao slide, on the capital, the left side of the slide, I was curious, looking at your plans for the next 10 years if you think you're going to be able to achieve return levels commensurate to recent projects that you've done in that market and you've enjoyed in that market?

好的。好的。然後在幻燈片 22 上，在澳門的長期承諾幻燈片，在首都，幻燈片的左側，我很好奇，看看你未來 10 年的計劃，如果你認為你能夠獲得與您在該市場中完成的和您在該市場中享受的近期項目相稱的回報水平？

Yes, we sure do. We forget, we -- you're talking to a bunch of people have been doing business in the count for 20 years, and we've seen the returns. We've seen what non-gaming can do. Our theaters, our retail, our entertainment has driven billions and billions and billions of dollars of EBITDA, and they will in the future as well.

是的，我們確實如此。我們忘記了，我們——你正在和一群在伯爵領地做生意 20 年的人交談，我們已經看到了回報。我們已經看到了非遊戲可以做什麼。我們的劇院、我們的零售、我們的娛樂活動推動了數十億美元的 EBITDA，未來也將如此。

We have no concerns whatsoever about investing and getting a solid return on non-gaming commitments. All they do is drive more visitation to the market. They are additives to the market, certainly going to drive more business right now. We look at this as a 10-year starting commitment and going beyond that. Our commitment to Macao is as long as we can be there.

我們不擔心投資和獲得非博彩承諾的可觀回報。他們所做的只是增加市場的訪問量。它們是市場的添加劑，現在肯定會推動更多業務。我們將此視為 10 年的開始承諾，並會超越它。我們對澳門的承諾是只要我們能在那裡。

And so we have no hesitation to invest or show the market a very, very considerable return. Just look we've done in the past. I mean, on our current assets, mostly non-gaming. The lion's share of our investment in Macao is non-gaming, the great majority. It's worked out pretty well for us. So we think next 10 years, we'll continue that trend, and we're very happy and very committed to Macao.

因此，我們毫不猶豫地投資或向市場展示非常非常可觀的回報。看看我們過去做過的事情。我的意思是，就我們目前的資產而言，主要是非博彩資產。我們在澳門投資的絕大部分是非博彩業，絕大部分。對我們來說效果很好。所以我們認為未來 10 年，我們將延續這一趨勢，我們非常高興，也非常致力於澳門。

The next question is coming from Ben Chaiken from Credit Suisse.

下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Ben Chaiken。

Just a quick one for me. Historically, capital return has been really important to you guys. Obviously, Macao is just beginning to ramp, and there's a lot of areas to invest. But how are you thinking about the dividend these days? Is that still important? And if so, how should we think about timing of that?

對我來說只是一個快速的。從歷史上看，資本回報對你們來說非常重要。顯然，澳門才剛剛起步，有很多領域可以投資。但是這些天你如何看待股息？那還重要嗎？如果是這樣，我們應該如何考慮時間安排？

If Sheldon were here, he would say, yay, dividends.

如果謝爾頓在這裡，他會說，是的，分紅。

(technical difficulty)

（技術難度）

I think someone put us on hold in Macao.

我想有人讓我們在澳門被擱置。

Sorry about that.

對於那個很抱歉。

Brief commercial from Macao.

來自澳門的簡短廣告。

So as I was saying, if Sheldon were here, and we miss him dearly, he would be saying, yay, dividends. I think Las Vegas Sands is a growth company. We're back to growth. We're a development company. We do large-scale developments in key markets. But most importantly, we're also returning capital company. And I think as our business returns and as we see normalization of cash flows, we're going to look to start the dividend again and be very shareholder friendly.

所以正如我所說，如果謝爾頓在這裡，我們非常想念他，他會說，是的，紅利。我認為拉斯維加斯金沙集團是一家成長型公司。我們恢復了增長。我們是一家開發公司。我們在主要市場進行大規模開發。但最重要的是，我們也在回歸資本公司。而且我認為，隨著我們的業務恢復以及現金流正常化，我們將再次開始派發股息，並對股東非常友好。

But at the end of the day, we're very focused on the strength of our balance sheet of new development. And you heard Rob talk about New York, it's very exciting. There are other things that hopefully we'll get a chance to do in the near term. And opportunistically, I think we'll continue to deploy capital where the highest returns are. And as part of that, the dividend will be fundamental to our shareholder return strategy. But I think we're going to wait and see where operating cash flow ends up and we'll make some assessments at that point.

但歸根結底，我們非常關注新開發資產負債表的實力。你聽到 Rob 談論紐約，這非常令人興奮。還有其他事情希望我們在短期內有機會做。從機會主義的角度來看，我認為我們將繼續在回報率最高的地方部署資本。作為其中的一部分，股息將成為我們股東回報戰略的基礎。但我認為我們將拭目以待，看看運營現金流的最終結果，屆時我們將進行一些評估。

And the next question is coming from Steve Wieczynski from Stifel.

下一個問題來自 Stifel 的 Steve Wieczynski。

So Rob or whoever wants to take this, I mean, if we look at visitation in Macao over the last, let's call it, week or so around the start of Chinese New Year, it does seem like it has been pretty strong. And I guess, is there any commentary or color you could give us about the spending patterns of these folks that are coming to the market?

所以 Rob 或任何想要接受這個的人，我的意思是，如果我們看看過去在澳門的訪問，我們稱之為中國新年開始前後的一周左右，它看起來確實非常強勁。我想，對於這些即將進入市場的人的消費模式，您是否可以給我們任何評論或顏色？

Meaning, are these folks gambling as much as they did before? Or is that some of that spending being pushed more into the non-gaming side of the floor? And maybe it's just too early to tell. But I think with how high Chinese savings levels are right now. I'm just wondering if you can provide any color around that.

意思是，這些人是否像以前一樣賭博？還是其中一些支出更多地被推到了場內的非博彩方面？也許現在下結論還為時過早。但我認為中國現在的儲蓄水平有多高。我只是想知道您是否可以提供任何顏色。

Yes. Yes. Yes. They're spending in retail, they're spending in gambling, they're spending, as we met (inaudible) Steve, it's just the right customers showing up. And I think this is historically how it's worked out in the recoveries where those who are the most aggressive gamers and retail spenders show up first. And we're seeing that strongly in Macao.

是的。是的。是的。他們在零售上花錢，他們在賭博上花錢，他們在花錢，正如我們遇到的（聽不清）史蒂夫，這只是合適的客戶出現。而且我認為這在歷史上是如何在那些最激進的遊戲玩家和零售消費者最先出現的複蘇中實現的。我們在澳門看到了這一點。

It's a very good audience, a very strong audience. You'll see the market numbers then come out. It's really gratifying for those of us who wait along terrible 3 years to see these days return, and they returned. And I think the real question is these customers that are now the question is, how many more are coming behind them?

這是一個非常好的觀眾，一個非常強大的觀眾。你會看到市場數據然後出來。對於我們這些等待了可怕的 3 年的人來說，看到這些日子回來，他們真的回來了，這真的很令人欣慰。我認為真正的問題是這些客戶現在的問題是，還有多少人在支持他們？

Because to your point, visitation has been mediocre out of Mainland China, relative to what had been previously. We're not even there. We're getting some pretty big numbers coming out of Macao in the market. So we're very enthused about it. I don't think -- it's not necessarily choosing gaming or retail, I think they're doing both, and then they're eating and shopping and funding everything.

因為就您的觀點而言，與之前相比，中國大陸以外的訪問量平平。我們甚至不在那裡。市場上有一些來自澳門的相當大的數字。所以我們對此非常熱情。我不認為——這不一定是選擇遊戲或零售，我認為他們兩者都在做，然後他們吃飯、購物並為一切提供資金。

So -- it's very typical of these recovery situations where the people who wanted most to shop there and they're buying their spending enjoying life again. I think the Chinese are no different to the Americans who came to the U.S. markets and enjoy themselves. And hopefully, a party continues is just getting started, and we've got a very encouraging start to this reopening after the last 3 years. Grant, do you want add some color to that, any issues you can raise that I haven't?

所以——這些復甦情況非常典型，那些最想在那裡購物的人，他們正在購買他們的消費，再次享受生活。我認為中國人與來到美國市場並樂在其中的美國人沒有什麼不同。希望派對的繼續才剛剛開始，在過去 3 年之後，我們的重新開放有了一個非常令人鼓舞的開端。格蘭特，你想為此添加一些顏色嗎？你可以提出我沒有提出的任何問題嗎？

No, I think it's just as you said. The nature of these reopenings, it will attract the high-quality customers first, and that's what we're seeing. And I think we saw that in Singapore in April as well. We had much stronger recovery in the Southeast Asian overseas spend in Singapore versus the recovery in the tourist arrivals.

不，我想就像你說的那樣。這些重新開業的性質，將首先吸引高質量的客戶，這就是我們所看到的。我想我們 4 月份在新加坡也看到了這一點。與遊客人數的複蘇相比，我們在新加坡的東南亞海外消費復甦更為強勁。

And I think Macao has also following something similar, except for the fact Macao has a much bigger advantage in being able to support visitation, not just by international airlift, regional airlift, but also by land and sea as well and domestic airlift then connecting through the Southern China as well. So I think it's -- let's see how -- what the pace of visitation recoveries like versus the revenue recovery.

而且我認為澳門也有類似的情況，除了澳門在支持訪問方面具有更大的優勢，不僅可以通過國際空運，區域空運，還可以通過陸路和海運以及國內空運然後通過中國南方也一樣。所以我認為這是 - 讓我們看看如何 - 訪問恢復的速度與收入恢復的速度。

But so far, I think the pattern that we've seen in [CNY] does support that pattern. Yes, you're getting a much stronger revenue. I think you are in visitation.

但到目前為止，我認為我們在 [CNY] 中看到的模式確實支持該模式。是的，你的收入要高得多。我想你是來拜訪的。

I think that last comment of Grant's, that's a great one, in that this is on the air dependent market like Singapore. You'll need the airlines. You can come other ways, access to Macao is mostly vehicular or both. So I think it's a huge advantage for Macao that as the population conquers, the virus situation gets more confident, there's nothing to -- no impediments to massive growth in visitation coming to Macao from China.

我認為 Grant 的最後一條評論非常好，因為這是針對像新加坡這樣依賴空氣的市場。你需要航空公司。您可以通過其他方式來，進入澳門主要是通過車輛或兩者兼而有之。因此，我認為這對澳門來說是一個巨大的優勢，因為隨著人口的減少，病毒的情況變得更加自信，沒有什麼可以阻礙來自中國的澳門訪問量的大規模增長。

That's a very positive point. But Steve, look, we just -- we are pleased we're seeing and they're spending in every direction. So we very -- we feel very fortunate. Hopefully, it just continues to ramp up from here.

這是一個非常積極的觀點。但是史蒂夫，看，我們只是——我們很高興看到他們在各個方面都在花錢。所以我們非常 - 我們感到非常幸運。希望它只是從這裡繼續上升。

The next question is coming from David Katz from Jefferies.

下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 David Katz。

This is Cassandra on behalf of David. Happy Chinese New Year to everyone. Yes. I think a lot of my questions have been answered already, so I hope it's not getting repetitive. You've mentioned cost issues in all markets, especially in energy wages. So could you discuss to what extent are those permanent? And where we might be run rating in terms of EBITDA versus 2019 level today?

這是代表大衛的卡桑德拉。祝大家農曆新年快樂。是的。我想我的很多問題已經得到解答，所以我希望它不會重複。你提到了所有市場的成本問題，尤其是在能源工資方面。那麼你能討論一下這些永久性的程度嗎？我們今天的 EBITDA 與 2019 年水平相比的評級可能在哪裡？

We're not going to discuss EBITDA at this point, except for what you've seen in Singapore. I do think energy is a vast thing. It does vastly. It doesn't go one way, as you well know, whereas wages, I think, worldwide are going to be an issue for everybody. And I think we'll deal with that. They're not -- I don't see them coming down a whole lot.

我們現在不打算討論 EBITDA，除了你在新加坡看到的。我確實認為能量是一個巨大的東西。它的作用很大。正如你所知，它不會單向發展，而我認為，全世界的工資將成為每個人的問題。我想我們會處理的。他們不是——我不認為他們會下降很多。

Again, our resorts and our capacity constrained ability to price up -- the rating at our business is you can price up and retain your margins. That, I think, will be our strategy in Singapore and also in Macao. I don't think wages are going to decline greatly.

同樣，我們的度假村和我們的容量限制了定價的能力——我們業務的評級是你可以定價並保持你的利潤。我認為，這將是我們在新加坡和澳門的戰略。我認為工資不會大幅下降。

I think Grant alluded to efficiencies, and then that's important. We have a large workforce, in the tens of thousands, in Macao. So more efficient and better doing what we do, that should be helpful. But I think we're all going to live with at this point in the U.S. and Asia, higher wages appear to be in the structure for now. Patrick?

我認為格蘭特提到了效率，這很重要。我們在澳門擁有數以萬計的龐大勞動力。如此更有效率、更好地做我們所做的事情，這應該會有所幫助。但我認為，在美國和亞洲的這一點上，我們都將接受目前的結構，更高的工資似乎正在醞釀之中。帕特里克？

I think the key thing is that by the nature of our business, we have resiliency in the face of inflation. As Rob mentioned, we have a lot of flexible pricing, hotel rooms, gaming pricing, the way we operate food and beverage, that we operate all of our non-gaming amenities. These are not long-term contracts.

我認為關鍵是，根據我們業務的性質，我們在面對通貨膨脹時具有彈性。正如 Rob 提到的，我們有很多靈活的定價、酒店客房、遊戲定價、我們經營食品和飲料的方式，我們經營所有非博彩設施。這些不是長期合同。

We have the ability to go with the market. So while there are some structural increases around wages, around inputs that we use, at the same time, we have the ability to price because of the unique nature of our products the experiences we offer to be fair to the positioning of the products that we have.

我們有能力與市場同行。因此，雖然圍繞工資和我們使用的投入有一些結構性增長，但與此同時，由於我們產品的獨特性，我們有能力對我們提供的體驗進行定價，以公平地對待我們的產品定位有。

We've invested a lot over many years in both markets, the reason why they're so strong. So in our mind, inflation is a real thing. We have to take into account but we have the ability to work through it and actually grow the margins of our business over time.

多年來，我們在這兩個市場上投入了大量資金，這也是它們如此強大的原因。所以在我們看來，通貨膨脹是真實存在的。我們必須考慮到這一點，但我們有能力解決這個問題，並隨著時間的推移實際增加我們業務的利潤率。

Great. And shifting to New York, how do you share or disclose publicly what kind of investments you expect to make if you win the gaming license versus if you don't?

偉大的。轉移到紐約，你如何公開分享或披露如果你獲得博彩牌照與如果你沒有獲得博彩牌照，你希望進行什麼樣的投資？

Yes, the current thought in our heads is about USD 4 billion to USD 5 billion. Again, this is not a regional casino. This is a full-blown resort. With MICE, entertainment, retail, restaurants, it's the real thing. It's not meant to be a small time investment. We're going all the way in and building something transformational that drives tourism. And we think will be the biggest, in terms of the casino business will be the biggest revenue generator.

是的，目前我們頭腦中的想法是大約 40 億美元到 50 億美元。同樣，這不是區域性賭場。這是一個成熟的度假勝地。對於 MICE、娛樂、零售、餐廳，這是真實的。這並不意味著是一個小的時間投資。我們正在全力以赴，打造推動旅遊業發展的變革性舉措。我們認為將是最大的，就賭場業務而言將是最大的收入來源。

And the last question today will be coming from Dan Politzer from Wells Fargo.

今天的最後一個問題將來自富國銀行的 Dan Politzer。

I guess, first on Macao. I know VIP was historically about 1/4 of your total business. I mean, to what extent, if any, have you seen this customer return and in what form has it been more of a credit, a direct VIP type customer? Or is this customer showing up in premium mass?

我想，首先是在澳門。我知道 VIP 在歷史上大約佔您總業務的 1/4。我的意思是，您在多大程度上（如果有的話）看到這個客戶返回，它以什麼形式更像是一種信用，一個直接的 VIP 類型的客戶？還是這個客戶出現在優質人群中？

So one thing to note is the VIP contribution was much lower than that. So let's call it, high single digits, low double digits historically. We've always been mass and premium mass driven. So it's -- on a contribution basis because the margins in premium and VIP and, to be fair, junket business, were always structurally much different than they were for our mass business.

所以需要注意的一件事是 VIP 貢獻遠低於此。因此，我們稱其為歷史上的高個位數，低兩位數。我們一直以大眾和高端大眾為導向。所以它 - 在貢獻的基礎上，因為溢價和 VIP 的利潤率，公平地說，中介業務的利潤率在結構上總是與我們的大眾業務有很大不同。

So we've always been led on a contribution basis by our mass play and our premium mass play. And you can tell that by our asset base and how we speak to our customers and the type of tourism we attract. That being said, I do want to turn it over to Grant for some additional comments.

因此，我們的大眾遊戲和優質大眾遊戲一直在貢獻的基礎上領先。你可以通過我們的資產基礎、我們如何與客戶交流以及我們吸引的旅遊業類型來判斷。話雖如此，我確實想將其轉交給 Grant 以徵求一些額外的意見。

Thanks, Patrick. Not a lot to add. I mean, all of our rolling business currently is in the premium direct program. And I think the second point is premium mass is doing recovering much, much faster than premium direct. I think that's what we're seeing right now.

謝謝，帕特里克。沒有太多要補充的。我的意思是，我們所有的滾動業務目前都在高級直接計劃中。我認為第二點是優質大眾的複蘇速度比優質直銷快得多。我認為這就是我們現在所看到的。

Got it. And then just a follow-up on the New York investment, the $4 billion to $5 billion you mentioned, I mean, is there -- should we expect a commensurate return on that type of project that you've seen in your Asia-based investments or given the high density population, the spend curve per unit, is there reasonable to think that there could actually be upside to that kind of 20% historical return?

知道了。然後是紐約投資的後續行動，你提到的 40 億到 50 億美元，我的意思是，我們是否應該期望你在亞洲看到的那種類型的項目獲得相應的回報？投資或考慮到高密度人口，每單位支出曲線，是否有理由認為這種 20% 的歷史回報率實際上有上升空間？

I think for us, we're very focused on return on invested capital. So Rob and the rest of the team really looks everywhere that we can to try to best deploy capital in the highest return outcomes. And so we would be interested in New York, if we didn't think the returns were there. We think it's a very strong potential opportunity.

我認為對我們來說，我們非常關注投資資本回報。因此，Rob 和團隊的其他成員真的到處尋找我們可以嘗試以最佳方式部署資本以獲得最高回報的結果。因此，如果我們不認為那裡有回報，我們會對紐約感興趣。我們認為這是一個非常強大的潛在機會。

And for us, it's going to be about the jobs we create, about the tourism we drive about the investment in the local community, the relationships that we have. In every market that we're in, we're typically the largest trade partner with small and medium enterprise. We're looking to develop deep community routes, so we can support the community and really show this industry is something that can benefit everyone. So we're very excited about it. We think the returns are there. Otherwise, we wouldn't be interested.

對我們來說，這將關乎我們創造的就業機會，關乎我們推動的旅遊業，關乎對當地社區的投資，以及我們擁有的關係。在我們所處的每個市場中，我們通常是中小企業最大的貿易夥伴。我們正在尋求開發深入的社區路線，以便我們可以支持社區並真正展示這個行業可以使每個人受益。所以我們對此感到非常興奮。我們認為回報就在那裡。否則，我們不會感興趣。

Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.

謝謝你。女士們，先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開電話線，度過美好的一天。感謝您的參與。