林德集團 (LIN) 2022 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Linde Plc First Quarter 2020 Earnings Teleconference. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) I would now hand the call over to Mr. Juan Pelaez, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

各位好，感謝您稍候。歡迎參加林德（Linde Plc）2020 年第一季財報電話會議。（接線員指示）請注意，今天的會議將被錄音。（接線員指示）現在我將把電話交給投資人關係主管 Juan Pelaez 先生。先生，請開始。

Thanks, Sergey. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for attending our 2022 first quarter earnings call and webcast. I'm Juan Pelaez, Head of Investor Relations, and I'm joined this morning by Sanjiv Lamba, Chief Executive Officer; and Matt White, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝你，Sergey。各位早安，感謝各位參加我們 2022 年第一季財報電話會議與網路直播。我是投資人關係主管 Juan Pelaez，今天早上與我一同出席的還有執行長 Sanjiv Lamba，以及財務長 Matt White。

Today's presentation materials are available on our website at linde.com in the Investors section. Please read the forward-looking statement disclosure on Page 2 of the slides and note that it applies to all statements made during the teleconference. The reconciliations of the adjusted numbers are in the appendix of this presentation.

今天的簡報資料已上傳至我們網站 linde.com 的「投資人」專區。請閱讀投影片第 2 頁的前瞻性陳述揭露，並注意其適用於本次電話會議期間所發表的所有陳述。調整後數字的調節表位於本簡報的附錄。

Sanjiv will provide some opening remarks, and then Matt will give an update on Linde's first quarter financial performance and outlook. After which, we will wrap up with Q&A. Let me now turn the call over to Sanjiv.

Sanjiv 將先做開場致詞，接著 Matt 將更新林德第一季的財務表現與展望。之後我們將進行問答。現在我把電話交給 Sanjiv。

Thanks, Juan, and good morning, everyone. I'd like to start off by addressing the recent global events and the tragedy occurring in Ukraine. A senseless invasion has caused widespread casualties and destruction at a level not seen in Europe for generations. As a global company, integrated within countless communities across the globe, Linde must do its part to help.

謝謝你，Juan，各位早安。我想先談談近期的全球事件，以及烏克蘭正在發生的悲劇。這場毫無意義的入侵造成廣泛傷亡與破壞，其程度是歐洲數代人未曾見過的。作為一家全球性公司，深度融入世界各地無數社區，林德必須盡一份心力提供協助。

I'm happy to report that all of our 121 Ukrainian employees are safe. And I'm incredibly proud of the courage and determination they've demonstrated throughout the crisis, including several who've chosen to continue producing and delivering life-saving medical gases. We are supporting their needs directly and indirectly, including through contributions of approximately $2 million. I can only pray that all the global pressure and support is enough to bring this war to an end and allow the efforts to begin towards healing and rebuilding Ukraine.

我很高興向各位報告，我們在烏克蘭的 121 位員工全都平安。我也為他們在危機期間展現的勇氣與決心感到無比自豪，其中包括數位員工選擇持續生產並配送救命用的醫療氣體。我們正以直接與間接方式支持他們的需求，包括捐助約 200 萬美元。我只能祈禱全球各方的壓力與支持足以讓這場戰爭結束，並讓烏克蘭得以開始療傷與重建。

Given these circumstances, we are scaling back gas operations in Russia. We have already ceased supply to certain customers and initiated the divestment process for some industrial assets. All in, an effort to reduce our footprint, which is already quite small at approximately 1% of sales. Furthermore, we have stopped new investments and business development while winding down several engineering projects. Given this, we have removed second half Russian earnings contribution from the guidance. Matt will speak more on this. However, we are scaling back responsibly as we continue to support our employees and their efforts to supply critical gases for medical and safety needs.

在此情況下，我們正在縮減在俄羅斯的氣體營運。我們已停止對部分客戶供應，並啟動部分工業資產的出售流程。整體而言，這是為了降低我們的曝險，而我們在俄羅斯的規模本來就很小，約占銷售額 1%。此外，我們已停止新的投資與業務開發，同時逐步結束數個工程專案。基於此，我們已將下半年俄羅斯的獲利貢獻自財測指引中移除。Matt 會進一步說明。不過，我們會在持續支持員工、並協助其供應醫療與安全所需關鍵氣體的同時，以負責任的方式縮減規模。

Now in the light of uncertain economic climate, I thought it would be helpful to highlight trends we're seeing by end markets and geographies. Let me now go on to Slide 3, which gives you a summary of Q1 growth rates by key end markets. Two overarching points are that the organic growth of 9% from a strong 2021 foundation and broad-based increases across both consumer and industrial-related end markets. At 17% of sales, healthcare trends are roughly flat as greater medical procedures in the developed markets were offset by lower hospital oxygen in developing markets such as Latin America and Eastern Europe.

在不確定的經濟環境下，我認為說明我們在各終端市場與地區所觀察到的趨勢會有所幫助。請看投影片第 3 頁，該頁彙總第一季各主要終端市場的成長率。有兩個總體重點：一是建立在 2021 年強勁基礎之上的 9% 有機成長；二是消費與工業相關終端市場皆呈現廣泛性的成長。醫療保健占銷售額 17%，整體趨勢大致持平：已開發市場醫療處置增加，抵銷了拉丁美洲與東歐等開發中市場醫院用氧下降的影響。

Now fortunately, it appears COVID oxygen needs are abating. So I expect health care to return to its long-term growth rate of mid-single-digit percentage as we continue to expand patient offerings for both hospital and home. Food and Beverage continues robust year-on-year growth as most parts of the world have returned to restaurant dining as well as increased applications for bulk food and beverage production. This resilient market should grow low to mid-single-digit percent. Note that the sequential trends are down due to normal seasonality from fourth quarter holiday season.

所幸看起來 COVID 的用氧需求正在減弱。因此，我預期醫療保健將回到其中長期的中個位數百分比成長率，因為我們持續擴大醫院與居家兩端的病患服務。食品與飲料在年對年比較下仍維持強勁成長，因為全球多數地區已恢復外出餐飲，同時散裝食品與飲料生產的應用也增加。這個具韌性的市場應可維持低到中個位數百分比成長。請注意，季對季趨勢下滑是因第四季假期旺季後的正常季節性因素所致。

Electronics at 9% of sales remains one of our fastest-growing end markets, especially in Americas and APAC. The primary gas is sold to these customers are ultra-high purity nitrogen, hydrogen, helium and rare gases. That includes neon, which represents less than 1% of total sales. However, given the amount of attention this molecule has recently received, it's fair to say that we're well positioned as one of the largest producers of neon in the world, with the vast majority of it being refined at our own sites in the U.S. and Germany. We are, of course, working closely with our customers to address their increased demand.

電子產業占銷售額 9%，仍是我們成長最快的終端市場之一，尤其在美洲與亞太地區。主要銷售給這些客戶的氣體包括超高純度氮氣、氫氣、氦氣與稀有氣體，其中包含氖氣；氖氣占總銷售額不到 1%。不過，鑑於近期市場對此分子高度關注，可以說我們具備良好優勢：林德是全球最大的氖氣生產商之一，而且其中絕大部分是在我們位於美國與德國的自有廠區進行精製。當然，我們正與客戶密切合作，以因應其增加的需求。

The electronics market grew 13% versus last year with a mix of underlying growth and project start-ups, and I fully expect to announce more new project wins during the course of this year.

電子市場較去年成長 13%，成長來源包含基本面成長與專案啟動。我完全預期在今年期間會宣布更多新的專案得標。

Turning to industrial end markets. Chemicals and Energy at 24% of sales grew double digit, led by the Americas, which drove more than half of that increase. We are seeing very strong demand across all phases of energy development as U.S. refining rates are close to record levels, driving even more demand for hydrogen and other gases. In addition, merchant hydrogen volumes rose by almost 60% from the last year in support of clean energy initiatives. Our chemical customers in the U.S. are some of the lowest cost producers in the world and thus saw high demand for their end products, requiring significant on-site gas supply. The current combination of high energy prices and transition to clean energy should drive continued growth in this end market for years to come.

接著談工業終端市場。化學與能源占銷售額 24%，呈現雙位數成長，主要由美洲帶動，而美洲貢獻了增幅的一半以上。隨著美國煉油開工率接近歷史高點，我們在能源開發各階段都看到非常強勁的需求，進一步推升對氫氣與其他氣體的需求。此外，為支持潔淨能源倡議，商用氫氣銷量較去年增加近 60%。我們在美國的化工客戶是全球成本最低的生產商之一，因此其終端產品需求旺盛，進而需要大量的現場供氣。當前高能源價格與向潔淨能源轉型的組合，應會在未來多年持續推動此終端市場成長。

To this point, we are currently reviewing close to 300 clean energy projects, with the probability weighted spend exceeding $5 billion for these clean energy projects. So I feel quite good about our prospects for future growth in this space.

就此而言，我們目前正在審視接近 300 個潔淨能源專案，這些潔淨能源專案的機率加權支出超過 50 億美元。因此，我對我們在此領域的未來成長前景相當有信心。

Metals & Mining at 14% of sales grew 7% from last year and 5% sequentially as lower volumes in China were more than offset by other regions, increasing their production to meet global demand. Americas improved sequentially and from prior year as U.S.-based steel mills increased production in support of higher industrial activity. In APAC, lower Chinese steel volumes were mostly offset by higher production from other countries. As the world races to replace Russian-based mining metals and energy sources, I expect to see our customers continue to increase their production and investment levels.

金屬與採礦占銷售額 14%，較去年成長 7%，季對季成長 5%；中國較低的出貨量被其他地區為滿足全球需求而提高的產量所抵銷。美洲無論季對季或年對年皆改善，因美國鋼廠為支撐更高的工業活動而提高產量。在亞太地區，中國鋼鐵產量下降多由其他國家增產所抵銷。隨著全球加速替代俄羅斯來源的礦產金屬與能源，我預期客戶將持續提高其產量與投資水準。

Finally, the manufacturing end market grew 11% from the last year and 4% sequentially, versus prior year growth was broad-based in every segment, but led by the Americas from increased aerospace and general manufacturing. Now last week, we announced another new long-term agreement with a major space launch company to provide rocket propulsion gases out of our recently expanded Florida plant. Currently, rocket and satellite propulsion demand is at its highest level we've ever seen, going as far back as the NASA's Apollo program. Linde is proud to be leading industrial gas supplier to all key players in the U.S.-based program.

最後，製造業終端市場較去年成長 11%，季對季成長 4%。相較去年，各細分領域的成長相當廣泛，但以美洲領先，受惠於航太與一般製造增加。上週，我們宣布與一家主要太空發射公司簽署另一項新的長期協議，將由我們近期擴建的佛羅里達工廠供應火箭推進用氣體。目前，火箭與衛星推進需求已達到我們有史以來最高水準，可追溯至 NASA 的阿波羅計畫時期。林德很自豪能成為美國相關計畫所有關鍵參與者的領先工業氣體供應商。

Looking ahead, there are clearly concerns around energy security, especially in Europe, which could result in persistent inflation. Additionally, shortages of Russian source commodities, coupled with Chinese production curtailments from COVID could put additional pressure on global production levels. Regardless of what ultimately happens in the economy, Linde has demonstrated time and time again that we weather the storm better than most. We have a committed team, a high-performance culture and an integrated network across all three supply modes, that's why I'm confident Linde will continue being the best performing industrial gases and engineering company in the world. Now I'd like to turn the call over to Matt to walk through the financial numbers.

展望未來，能源安全顯然令人擔憂，尤其在歐洲，這可能導致通膨持續。此外，俄羅斯來源商品的短缺，加上中國因 COVID 而限產，可能對全球生產水準造成額外壓力。無論最終經濟情勢如何發展，林德一再證明我們比多數公司更能安然度過風暴。我們擁有投入的團隊、高績效文化，以及涵蓋三種供應模式的整合式網路，這也是我有信心林德將持續成為全球表現最佳的工業氣體與工程公司之原因。現在我想把電話交給 Matt，請他帶各位檢視財務數字。

Thanks, Sanjiv. Please turn to Slide 4 for an overview of the first quarter results. Sales of $8.2 billion increased 13% from prior year but declined 1% sequentially from the fourth quarter. Versus prior year, cost pass-through increased 6% from a contractual billing of higher energy costs, but currency translation reduced sales by 3% from a stronger U.S. dollar, primarily against the euro and pound sterling. Excluding these items, organic sales grew 9% from 3% more volume split between project backlog and base and 6% more pricing as we continue to price to inflation. Recall that actual price increases are much higher for the combined packaged and merchant gases.

謝謝你，Sanjiv。請翻到投影片第 4 頁，查看第一季業績概覽。銷售額 82 億美元，較去年同期增加 13%，但較第四季季對季下滑 1%。相較去年，成本轉嫁因合約計費反映較高能源成本而增加 6%；但由於美元走強，主要相對於歐元與英鎊，匯率換算使銷售額減少 3%。排除上述因素後，有機銷售成長 9%，其中 3% 來自更多銷量（由專案訂單庫存與既有基礎業務共同貢獻），6% 來自更高定價，因我們持續以定價因應通膨。請記得，對於包裝氣體與商用氣體合併業務而言，實際的價格調升幅度要高得多。

Sequentially, when excluding the 1% currency headwind, organic sales increased 2% as 3% higher pricing was partially offset by a 1% decline in volume. The volume decline was driven by lower EMEA medical oxygen and seasonal effects from food and beverage, Chinese New Year and Southern Hemisphere LPG. Engineering volumes are up 1% from prior year, but down 2% sequentially as we have begun winding down several Russian projects, and we expect that trend to continue into Q2.

依序來看，若排除 1% 的匯率逆風，有機銷售成長 2%，其中 3% 的較高定價被 1% 的銷量下滑部分抵銷。銷量下滑主要由 EMEA 醫用氧氣較低以及食品與飲料的季節性因素、中國新年與南半球 LPG 的季節性影響所致。工程業務銷量較去年同期成長 1%，但較前一季下滑 2%，因我們已開始逐步縮減數個俄羅斯專案，且預期此趨勢將延續至第二季。

Operating profit of $1.9 billion increased 13% from 2021 and 3% sequentially. The operating margin of 23.2% is roughly flat with prior year, but up 100 basis points from the fourth quarter. The contractual cost pass-through has no effect on operating profit dollars, but will impact operating margins as we adjust both sales and cost with energy prices. Excluding this effect, operating margins are up 130 basis points from prior year and 120 basis points sequentially. You can see the table to the right, showing underlying margins by geographic segment, with almost all up triple digits across both periods.

營業利益 19 億美元，較 2021 年成長 13%，較前一季成長 3%。營業利益率 23.2% 與去年同期大致持平，但較第四季提高 100 個基點。合約性的成本轉嫁對營業利益金額沒有影響，但在我們隨能源價格調整銷售與成本時，將影響營業利益率。排除此影響後，營業利益率較去年同期提高 130 個基點，較前一季提高 120 個基點。您可參考右側表格，顯示各地理區隔的基礎利益率，幾乎在兩個期間皆呈現三位數基點的上升。

Despite the unprecedented geopolitical events and subsequent inflationary pressure, the business quality continues to improve, and we anticipate that margins ex cost pass-through should increase going forward. You may have noticed the higher than normal engineering segment margins at 19.6% and lower-than-normal global other operating profit at a $44 million loss. These are driven by project timing differences and one-off costs, which both should return to normal run rate levels by the second quarter. EPS of $2.93 increased 18% from last year and 6% sequentially, as we continue to demonstrate strong leverage down the entire income statement.

儘管前所未有的地緣政治事件及其後續的通膨壓力，業務品質仍持續改善，我們預期排除成本轉嫁後的利益率未來仍將上升。您可能注意到工程部門利益率高於常態，達 19.6%，以及全球其他（Global Other）營業利益低於常態，呈現 4,400 萬美元虧損。這些主要由專案時點差異與一次性成本所致，兩者預期在第二季回到正常的常態水準。每股盈餘（EPS）2.93 美元，較去年成長 18%，較前一季成長 6%，顯示我們在整份損益表上持續展現強勁的營運槓桿。

Disciplined capital management is supporting lower interest costs and reduced share count, which I'll speak to more on the next slide. The final number I'd like to highlight is return on capital, which represents one of the most important financial metrics in our industry. Three years ago, this figure was 10.4%. Today, we're at 18.9% and still growing. This progress doesn't happen overnight. It requires a sustained high performance culture across all levels of the business. We're quite confident that Linde is and will continue to be a long-term value compounder with a healthy blend of high-quality growth, tremendous resilience and significant shareholder returns.

嚴謹的資本管理正支持較低的利息成本與較少的流通股數，我會在下一張投影片再多談一些。最後我想強調的數字是資本報酬率（return on capital），這是本產業最重要的財務指標之一。三年前，這個數字是 10.4%；今天，我們達到 18.9%，且仍在成長。這樣的進展不會一蹴可幾，而是需要在企業各層級維持長期的高績效文化。我們相當有信心，Linde 現在以及未來都將持續成為長期價值的複利成長者，兼具高品質成長、卓越韌性與可觀的股東報酬。

Slide 5 provides more color on our capital management trends. Q1 operating cash flow of $2 billion was slightly below last year, due to unfavorable working capital timing in January and February. While March was a much stronger month, it wasn't enough to catch up. I expect improvements in Q2 as our DSO and DPO levels are still quite stable. Also recall that Q1 tends to be one of the weakest quarters of the year due to cash payment timing.

第 5 張投影片提供更多關於我們資本管理趨勢的說明。第一季營運現金流 20 億美元，因 1 月與 2 月營運資金時點不利而略低於去年。雖然 3 月表現強勁得多，但仍不足以追上差距。我預期第二季將改善，因我們的 DSO 與 DPO 水準仍相當穩定。也請記得，第一季通常因現金支付時點因素而是全年較弱的季度之一。

Engineering cash flow was positive in Q1, but down year-over-year on project payment timing. In light of the accelerated Russian project wind downs, I expect more payment outflows to vendors as we close out several projects, consistent with how all projects are closed out, but at a significantly faster pace. Overall, I still anticipate a full year operating cash flow to EBITDA ratio in the low to mid-80% range.

工程業務第一季現金流為正，但因專案收付款時點影響而較去年同期下降。鑑於俄羅斯專案加速縮減，我預期在結案數個專案時，對供應商的付款流出將增加；這與所有專案結案的方式一致，但速度將顯著加快。整體而言，我仍預期全年營運現金流對 EBITDA 比率將落在 80% 出頭至 80% 中段的區間。

As far as how we deploy that cash, we announced a 10% dividend increase for 2022, which marks the 29th consecutive year of dividend increases. We also announced a new $10 billion share repurchase program on February 28, of which we've already spent $1.7 billion by the end of April. And of course, we will always reinvest in the business, which is our priority for capital. Despite the economic challenges, we still have access to low-cost capital as evidenced by our most recent bond deal. We issued over EUR 2 billion across 3 tranches. And as you can see, the attractive pricing, we had a weighted average maturity of 10 years with a weighted average coupon of 1.4%. Irrespective of the economic climate, we will maintain a steady and predictable capital allocation policy to invest in the business while rewarding shareholders.

至於我們如何運用這些現金，我們宣布 2022 年股利提高 10%，這是連續第 29 年調升股利。我們也在 2 月 28 日宣布新的 100 億美元庫藏股回購計畫，截至 4 月底已執行 17 億美元。當然，我們也將持續再投資於業務，這是我們資本配置的優先事項。儘管經濟面臨挑戰，我們仍能取得低成本資金，從近期的債券發行即可看出。我們分三個期別合計發行超過 20 億歐元。如您所見，定價相當具吸引力，加權平均到期年限為 10 年，加權平均票面利率為 1.4%。不論經濟環境如何，我們都將維持穩健且可預期的資本配置政策，在投資業務的同時回饋股東。

I'll finish up on Slide 6, which provides the updated earnings outlook. Second quarter guidance range of $2.90 to $3, represents 7% to 11% growth over prior year or 10% to 14% when excluding currency translation impact. For the full year, the new guidance range is $11.65 to $11.90, a 9% to 11% growth rate from 2021 or 11% to 13% when adjusting for currency. Both estimates have two key underlying assumptions.

我將以第 6 張投影片作結，該投影片提供更新後的獲利展望。第二季指引區間為 2.90 至 3.00 美元，較去年同期成長 7% 至 11%；若排除匯率換算影響，則為 10% 至 14%。全年新的指引區間為 11.65 至 11.90 美元，較 2021 年成長 9% 至 11%；若調整匯率因素，則為 11% 至 13%。兩項估計皆有兩個關鍵的基本假設。

First, there is no assumed base economic growth at the midpoint. Consistent with last quarter, this is not our economic projection but rather a placeholder for the guidance. You can insert your own view of the economy. If it does better, we will do better. And if it does worse, we'll take actions to mitigate. Second, we have removed contribution of Russian earnings by the second half of the year. As we continue to wind down engineering projects, cease certain operations and sell industrial assets, we felt it was appropriate to remove Russian earnings from the outlook and associated projects from the backlog. These actions are ongoing. So we anticipate some residual earnings in Q2, which are projected to cease by Q3.

第一，在中位數情境下，我們未假設任何基礎經濟成長。與上季一致，這不是我們對經濟的預測，而只是指引中的占位假設。您可以代入您自己對經濟的看法；若經濟表現更好，我們也會更好；若更差，我們將採取行動以降低影響。第二，我們已在下半年移除俄羅斯獲利貢獻。隨著我們持續縮減工程專案、停止部分營運並出售工業資產，我們認為將俄羅斯獲利自展望中移除，並將相關專案自在手訂單（backlog）中剔除，是適當的作法。這些行動仍在進行中。因此，我們預期第二季仍會有部分殘餘獲利，並預計於第三季停止。

While this is a fluid situation with many complexities, we are committed to following all sanctions and scaling down operations in a safe manner. Overall, despite economic uncertainties, we are raising the full year outlook. In fact, as Sanjiv mentioned, Linde has demonstrated industry-leading performance year after year. We only need to look at the last 3 years to prove that. At the start of 2019, when some investors doubted the merits of the merger, we quickly came together as one and grew EPS 19%, finishing the year at an all-time high stock price.

雖然情勢多變且牽涉諸多複雜因素，我們承諾遵循所有制裁規定，並以安全的方式縮減營運。整體而言，儘管經濟不確定性存在，我們仍上調全年展望。事實上，如 Sanjiv 所提，Linde 年復一年展現產業領先的表現；只要回顧過去三年即可證明。2019 年初，當部分投資人質疑合併的價值時，我們迅速整合為一體，使 EPS 成長 19%，並以歷史新高股價結束該年度。

Moving into 2020, when the pandemic struck Linde stock was sold off from apparent concerns of too much cyclicality without enough resiliency only to ultimately achieve 12% EPS growth and finished the year at a new all-time high stock price. And when 2021 began, Linde stock was once again sold off. This time, from apparent concerns of too much resiliency without enough cyclicality. And yet, we grew EPS by 30%, and once again, finished the year at another new all-time high stock price. Now in 2022, Linde stock has been sold off again from concerns of economic uncertainty and high inflation. Time will tell how we ultimately finish this year -- but personally, I like our odds. I'll now turn the call over to Q&A.

進入 2020 年，疫情爆發時，Linde 股價因外界擔憂景氣循環性過高、韌性不足而遭到拋售，但最終仍達成 EPS 成長 12%，並以新的歷史新高股價結束該年度。到了 2021 年開始，Linde 股價再次遭到拋售；這次是因外界擔憂韌性過高、循環性不足。然而，我們仍使 EPS 成長 30%，並再次以另一個歷史新高股價結束該年度。如今在 2022 年，Linde 股價又因經濟不確定性與高通膨的疑慮而下跌。今年最終結果如何仍有待時間驗證——但就我個人而言，我喜歡我們的勝算。接下來我把電話交給問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Mike Sison from Wells Fargo.

（接線員指示）我們的第一個問題來自 Wells Fargo 的 Mike Sison。

Nice start to the year. I guess at the midpoint, where you're talking about no assumed economic growth, what type of volume growth will you be able to generate? And maybe talk about each of the regions as you sort of walk us through that.

今年開局不錯。我想在你們提到「中位數情境下不假設經濟成長」的前提下，你們能夠帶來什麼樣的銷量成長？也請在帶我們逐一說明時，談談各個區域的情況。

Mike, so this is Sanjiv. I just want to kind of first lay out the guidance point that Matt just talked about and then talk a little bit about what we see in the regions going across. So Matt pointed out that at the midpoint of our full year guidance, we have currently assumed there is no help from the economy at all, right? So that's a 0% kind of volume benefit that we're getting over there. And he's also suggested that you can go ahead and put your assumption on what do you think the economy is going to do and recognize where that end result might look like.

Mike，我是 Sanjiv。我想先把 Matt 剛談到的指引要點再梳理一下，然後再談談我們對各區域的觀察。Matt 指出，在我們全年指引的中位數情境下，我們目前假設經濟完全沒有提供任何助力，對吧？也就是說，我們在那裡獲得的銷量助益是 0%。他也提到，您可以自行代入您對經濟走勢的假設，並理解最終結果可能會呈現什麼樣貌。

If the economy does better than that, obviously, we'll do better. If it doesn't, again, to just kind of reiterate what he said, we will take mitigation actions, as you've seen us do previously. Now I think I want to just kind of relate that and then move on and talk about the end markets and really give you a sense of how I see the 3 important segments that we have. I think that will give you a sense of what the market is currently looking at.

如果經濟表現優於此，顯然我們的表現也會更好。若不如預期，再次重申他所說的，我們將採取緩解措施，就像你們之前看到我們做過的那樣。現在我想先把這點連結起來，然後往下談終端市場，真正讓你們了解我如何看待我們的3個重要業務區隔。我想這會讓你們對市場目前的狀況有個概念。

So let's start off with the Americas. Strong underlying demand in there. We are seeing that reflected across all the key end markets we participate in, chemicals and refining doing extremely well. Healthcare has been flat, but you know there is an offset of increased elective procedures versus a slight decline, certainly in Latin America, if you will, on the COVID need for medical oxygen as well, which is a good thing in truth.

那我們先從美洲開始。那裡的基礎需求很強勁。我們看到這點反映在我們參與的所有主要終端市場中，化工與煉油表現非常好。醫療保健則持平，但你知道，選擇性手術增加與（如果你願意這麼說）拉丁美洲因COVID對醫用氧氣需求略有下降之間形成了抵銷，而坦白說這其實是件好事。

And then we are obviously seeing semiconductor continue to see growth as well. Manufacturing and largely kind of manifested through our packaged and hardgoods side of the business doing extremely well, the U.S. package and hot goods kind of running at about -- well, double-digit growth for the quarter again. which has been fairly consistent over the last few quarters.

接著我們也明顯看到半導體持續成長。製造業方面，主要體現在我們包裝與硬貨（hardgoods）業務端，表現非常好；美國的包裝與硬貨業務本季大約呈現——嗯，再次達到兩位數成長，這在過去幾季一直相當一致。

I want to maybe highlight refining specifically, if I may, up about 30% year-on-year for us. Very strong, solid growth coming out of refining. Obviously, we're seeing -- that includes some start-up impact there for us as well, but we're seeing refineries run flat out. Utilization rates above 90%. Crack spreads at $38 at the moment, we haven't seen these levels in mid-2000s, if you will.

如果可以的話，我想特別強調煉油，我們年增約30%。煉油帶來非常強勁、扎實的成長。顯然，我們看到——其中也包含一些裝置啟動（start-up）對我們的影響，但我們看到煉油廠滿載運轉。產能利用率超過90%。目前裂解價差（crack spreads）在38美元，我們自2000年代中期以來就沒見過這樣的水準。

So again, all looking pretty strong from the underlying demand patterns we see out of the Americas. I'll move on quickly to APAC and just tell you that we see broad-based consistent underlying demand growth. I'm going to talk about China for a moment and briefly cover that as well. but broad-based across the rest of Asia Pacific and kind of reasonably strong and stable underlying demand as we see the markets today.

所以總的來說，從我們在美洲看到的基礎需求型態來看，一切都相當強勁。我接著快速談APAC，告訴你們我們看到廣泛且一致的基礎需求成長。我會花點時間談中國並簡要說明；但在亞太其他地區，整體而言基礎需求相當廣泛，且以我們目前看到的市場狀況來說，算是合理強勁且穩定。

China clearly, you're reading the press all about lockdowns, et cetera. We are seeing those lockdowns play out in Q2, if you will. I'm finding the on-site side of our business holding reasonably well. Yes, there is some impact on the merchant side, small and medium enterprises, obviously, a little bit more impacted over there.

中國方面，你們從媒體上讀到的都是封控等等。我們確實看到這些封控在第二季發酵。就我們的現場供氣（on-site）業務而言，我覺得維持得還不錯。是的，商用（merchant）端會有一些影響，中小企業顯然在那邊受到的衝擊更大一些。

We did see the volumes kind of take a little bit of a drop early on in April, but they have stabilized, still a little bit short of where we expect them to be. My forecast is for the rest of the quarter, we aren't likely to see anything significant happen over there. And just so you know, we factored that into our guidance as well.

我們確實看到4月初的量有些下滑，但之後已經穩定下來，仍略低於我們原本預期的水準。我的預測是，在本季剩餘時間，那邊不太可能出現任何重大變化。而且讓你們知道一下，我們也已把這點納入我們的財測指引之中。

Lastly, EMEA and that really is a bit of a wildcard, I have to tell you, I have been surprised by how the EMEA business has held up, the on-site volumes as well as the merchant side of the business, huge resiliency over there. Obviously, you know what's happening to energy prices, and you can see our pricing numbers in EMEA as well, making sure that we're pricing to inflation, even catching up on prior catch-ups that we talked about.

最後是EMEA，而那確實有點像不確定因素（wildcard），我得告訴你，我對EMEA業務的韌性之強感到驚訝，無論是現場供氣量還是商用端，表現都非常有韌性。顯然，你們也知道能源價格正在發生什麼事，你們也能看到我們在EMEA的定價數字，確保我們的定價能反映通膨，甚至把我們之前提到的過去落後的補漲也追上。

We said to you previously we kind of catch up on pricing over 1 to 2 quarters. You can see that come through. And obviously, the operating margins ex pass-through demonstrating that up 130 basis points year-on-year sequentially, 120 basis points, up across every segment that we have as well. So again, pretty solid in terms of quarter 1. Really, I think the unknown over there is what happens to energy more broadly. And of course, you hear the news about what happens to natural gas sourcing, et cetera.

我們先前跟你們說過，我們通常會在1到2個季度內把定價追上，你們可以看到這點正在反映出來。而且很明顯，扣除轉嫁（pass-through）後的營業利潤率年增130個基點、季比120個基點，且我們所有業務區隔都在上升。所以第一季整體而言相當穩健。我認為那邊真正未知的是更廣泛的能源走勢會如何發展。當然，你們也聽到新聞在談天然氣來源等問題。

I'm not going to speculate there, Mike. Just as far as the underlying business itself is concerned and how we're managing it, I'm really pleased with how the EMEA guys -- the team is managing that and they are -- they will work through every contingency that happens. We've got a strong team over there able to do that. So it's a bit exhaustive as an answer, but I just thought I'd kind of give you that broader perspective.

Mike，我不打算在那方面做推測。就基礎業務本身以及我們如何管理而言，我對EMEA那邊的同仁——團隊的管理方式非常滿意，他們——他們會把每一種可能發生的情境都納入並逐一應對。我們在那邊有一支很強的團隊能做到這點。所以這個回答有點冗長，但我只是想給你一個更宏觀的觀點。

And just a quick follow-up. Industrial gases tends to help customers reduce their energy costs. So your sale of gas backlog has been pretty steady at $3.5 billion. Are you seeing sort of more bidding potential? And does the backlog potentially go up as in this inflationary environment?

再快速追問一下。工業氣體通常能幫助客戶降低能源成本。所以你們的售氣（sale of gas）在手訂單一直相當穩定，約35億美元。你們是否看到更多投標機會？在這種通膨環境下，在手訂單是否可能上升？

Absolutely, Mike. So the short answer to that is, yes, we are seeing a lot more proposal activity. On the sale of gas backlog, just a reminder, that about $1 billion of that is coming off this year, which means we are starting our projects, best kind of projects I like that get started up, bring revenue and earnings in the course of the year. So that's good to see. We're filling that back up with $1 billion more of project wins that we expect are kind of developing and fairly advanced. And I expect -- I do expect actually that backlog to continue to creep up and move in the right direction. So yes, lots more activity and across a whole range of end markets as well, energy, refining, chemicals, electronics manufacturing. So again, broad-based, solid proposal activity, which I think will translate into wins. We just have to see how quickly we can lock that in.

當然，Mike。簡短回答是：是的，我們看到更多提案活動。關於售氣在手訂單，提醒一下，其中約10億美元會在今年結轉出來，這意味著我們正在啟動專案——這類我最喜歡的專案會啟動、在年度內帶來營收與獲利。所以看到這點很好。我們也會用我們預期正在發展、且進展相當成熟的約10億美元專案得標來補回去。我也預期——我確實預期在手訂單會持續小幅上升、朝正確方向前進。所以是的，活動量明顯增加，而且涵蓋很廣泛的終端市場：能源、煉油、化工、電子製造等。因此，整體而言提案活動廣泛且扎實，我認為會轉化為得標；我們只需要看看能多快把它們敲定。

Our next question comes from Kevin McCarthy from Vertical Research Partners.

下一個問題來自Vertical Research Partners的Kevin McCarthy。

Sanjiv, can you comment on your outlook for return on capital. You had an impressive level of 18.9% in the quarter. Can you continue to move that higher? And how do you view ROC in the context of rising interest rates? Are you starting to take higher cost of debt, for example, into your project bidding? And have you seen that in the marketplace as well as it relates to your peers?

Sanjiv，你能談談你們對資本報酬率（return on capital）的展望嗎？你們本季達到令人印象深刻的18.9%。你們能否繼續把它推得更高？在利率上升的背景下，你們如何看待ROC？例如，你們是否開始在專案投標時納入更高的負債成本？你們是否也在市場上看到同業有類似情況？

Kevin, I'll kind of quickly give you a response to that. I think -- and then get Matt too, he is passionate about this, so I'm going to let him have a walk through this as well. ROC, I've said this before, you've kind of heard and I've been quoted on this, truth serum for an industry like us. It sometimes surprises when I look at our peer group that we really do stand out. There's a lot of hard work that goes into that, managing both the numerator and the denominator remain critical. And we do that day in and day out, as you know. That's how we run our business.

Kevin，我先快速回應一下。我想——然後也請Matt補充，他對這個議題很有熱情，所以我也會讓他帶大家走一遍。ROC，我以前說過，你們也聽過，而且我也被引用過：對我們這種產業而言，ROC就像誠實試劑（truth serum）。有時候我看同業群時會感到驚訝，因為我們確實非常突出。這背後投入了大量努力，同時管理分子與分母仍然至關重要。我們每天都在做這件事，如你所知，這就是我們經營業務的方式。

We run it every day to make sure that we kind of get through on that. So these are record ROC levels for our industry. Our industry hasn't seen this record and comes from that daily operational aspects of the business and then managing a very disciplined capital approach all of that kind of feeds into that. Our aspiration will remain to continue to grow that. But ROC, as you know, is a function of the various factors that go into play that I mentioned earlier on. And as we see CapEx buildup happen and the ramps take place, there will always be some captures that happens around that ROC piece. Matt?

我們每天都這樣運作，確保能把這件事做好。這些是我們產業的創紀錄ROC水準。我們產業以前沒見過這樣的紀錄，而這來自於日常營運層面的管理，以及非常嚴謹的資本紀律；這些都共同促成了這個結果。我們的目標仍會是持續提升它。但如你所知，ROC取決於我先前提到的多種因素。隨著資本支出（CapEx）累積、以及專案爬坡（ramps）發生，ROC那一塊總會出現一些階段性的影響。Matt？

Yes, sure. Kevin, I can just add a few points to that. I think as far as the outlook, it's probably safe to say we're overachieving with what some of your expectations probably were. And the obvious answer is we're growing earnings faster than our capital base, but I think the underlying thing to take into consideration is we are less capital intensive than I think people realize. We have a lot of avenues of growth that don't require significant capital.

好的，當然。Kevin，我再補充幾點。我想就展望而言，可以說我們的表現可能超出你們部分人的預期。最直接的答案是，我們的獲利成長速度快於資本基礎的成長；但我認為需要考量的核心在於：我們的資本密集度比很多人以為的要低。我們有很多成長途徑不需要投入大量資本。

We're demonstrating that through our end markets. We're demonstrating that through our supply modes of package and some of the other services we have, and we see a continued opportunity to see expansion of return on capital through significant growth that does not require significant capital. Now of course, we have great opportunities for large projects that we're going to pursue and that we're going to win. But we also have a very diverse business that allows us strong year in, year out growth without the need of significant capital.

我們正透過我們的終端市場來證明這一點。我們也透過我們的供應模式（包含套裝方案以及我們提供的其他一些服務）來證明這一點，而且我們看到持續的機會：透過不需要大量資本的顯著成長，來擴大資本報酬率。當然，我們也有很好的大型專案機會，我們會去追求，也會贏得。但我們同時擁有非常多元的業務，使我們能夠在不需要大量資本的情況下，年復一年維持強勁成長。

And as far as the inflation impact on what you asked, we get asked this question when rates rise, when rates fall. We get asked over and over again, and we have the same answer, which is we take a very long-term view, right? When we lock in these projects, these are 15-, 20-year views, and we don't try to estimate what inflation or rates will do. Rather, we protect ourselves against inflation on how we contract both on the execution and the long-term fees that we will charge for facility fees.

至於你問到的通膨影響，我們在利率上升時被問、利率下降時也被問。我們一再被問到這個問題，而我們的答案始終相同：我們採取非常長期的觀點，對吧？當我們鎖定這些專案時，看的都是 15 年、20 年的期間，我們不會試圖去估計通膨或利率會怎麼走。相反地，我們會在合約設計上保護自己免受通膨影響，無論是在執行面，或是在長期我們將收取的設施費用（facility fees）等費率上。

So given that we build a model that is independent of what Feds do around the world and how inflation is structured. And I think our results recently have demonstrated that. And I think our results, during the disinflationary periods, post the great financial crisis showed that. So from that perspective, we build it agnostic of it and just to generate value for the long term.

因此，鑑於我們建立的模型不受全球各地聯準會（Fed）作為以及通膨結構的影響。我認為我們近期的結果已經證明了這一點。我也認為在大金融危機之後的去通膨期間，我們的結果也顯示了這一點。所以從這個角度來看，我們的建模對此保持中性（agnostic），只是為了長期創造價值。

Matt, secondly, if I may, can you walk us through the financial impact from your exit in Russia as it relates to earnings and also any cash flows associated with the exit costs there?

Matt，第二個問題，如果可以的話，你能否帶我們了解一下你們退出俄羅斯對財務的影響，特別是對獲利（earnings）的影響，以及與退出成本相關的任何現金流？

Sure, Kevin. So to be clear on how we did this, it starts with the guidance. And what we want to do in the guidance, as we stated, is by the second half remove any impact from Russia and that includes projects or our business in the gas, which is about 1%. As we stated on the prepared remarks, it's a fluid situation. This is something that we are committed to scaling back.

當然，Kevin。為了清楚說明我們是如何處理的，先從財測指引（guidance）談起。我們在指引中想做的，如同我們所說，是在下半年移除任何來自俄羅斯的影響，這包括專案或我們在天然氣相關的業務（約占 1%）。如同我們在事先準備的發言中提到的，這是一個變動中的情勢。我們承諾要縮減這部分。

We're committed to reducing our footprint, obviously, following all the sanctions and it's something that we're continuously working on, but we wanted to take the prudent and conservative view of removing that impact going forward. As we stated, the gas business is about a little less than 1% of sales and corresponding operating profit and assets. In the Engineering business, obviously, you saw the effect of the backlog of those projects, and they're continuing to work through.

我們承諾要降低我們的曝險範圍（footprint），當然也會遵循所有制裁措施，並且我們持續在推進這件事；但我們希望採取審慎且保守的觀點，將未來的影響排除在外。如同我們所說，天然氣業務的銷售額占比略低於 1%，相應的營業利益與資產占比亦然。在工程（Engineering）業務方面，顯然你已看到這些專案在手訂單（backlog）的影響，而他們仍在持續消化處理。

From a cash perspective, I'd separate into two pieces. There's, obviously, the normal aspect, as I mentioned, where when you wind down projects in this type of percent completion business, it is a normal outflow. That is a normal part of this business. You get paid upfront. And then as you work the project down, you pay your vendors and you cover the cost to build that project. We fully expect that same effect. It will just be on a more accelerated path than what it normally would have been.

從現金的角度，我會分成兩部分。第一部分，顯然是我提到的正常情況：在這種完工百分比（percent completion）業務中，當你逐步結束專案時，會出現正常的現金流出，這是這門生意的正常組成。你會先收到預付款，然後隨著專案推進，你支付供應商並承擔建造該專案的成本。我們完全預期會有同樣的效果，只是相較於原本的節奏，會更快發生。

Separately, on the deposits that we have upfront at this stage, we see the need for them. That is something we don't see a significant effect other than obviously working through paying vendors and paying the cost to wind down the projects. And as I stated, we still anticipate that operating cash flow to EBITDA will be low to mid-80s for this year, considering all these items. So that's how I think you should think about it and model it.

第二部分，關於我們目前已收取的預收款（deposits），我們認為仍有其必要性。除了在支付供應商以及支付結束專案的成本、逐步收尾之外，我們不認為會有顯著影響。如同我所說，考量所有這些項目，我們仍預期今年營運現金流對 EBITDA 的比率會落在 80% 出頭到 80% 中段。因此我認為你應該用這樣的方式來理解並建模。

P.J. Juvekar, Citi.

P.J. Juvekar，花旗（Citi）。

Yes. Sanjiv, some have suggested that with the rise of natural gas prices in Europe, the cost of green hydrogen today is same as cost of gray hydrogen. So you would think that Europe would accelerate green hydrogen, which would make sense from sort of energy security standpoint. Have you seen any increased discussions and initial orders or anything about green hydrogen in Europe?

是的。Sanjiv，有人提出，隨著歐洲天然氣價格上升，今天綠氫的成本已經與灰氫的成本相同。因此你會認為歐洲會加速推動綠氫，從能源安全的角度看也合理。你是否看到在歐洲有更多相關討論、初步訂單，或任何關於綠氫的動向？

P.J., that's a good question. Obviously, very topical at the moment. So what we are seeing is clearly the intent in Europe, even prior to this current crisis, the intent in Europe to move down the path of green. Obviously, that difference between green and gray is narrowing, certainly in Europe. The constraint -- so from a policy point of view, clearly, we see that there is greater momentum, if anything, coming out of this current crisis leading to that green road map. The challenge, P.J., lies in the ability to scale up green production and the ability to access renewable energy and the ability to get all of that together to then produce hydrogen and find a carrier that makes it cost effective once it's landed at scale, and that's where the challenge lies.

P.J.，這是個好問題。顯然目前非常切題。我們看到的是：即使在這次危機之前，歐洲就已經明確有意沿著綠色轉型的道路前進。顯然，綠氫與灰氫之間的差距正在縮小，尤其是在歐洲。限制因素——從政策角度來看，我們清楚看到動能更強；如果說有什麼不同，那就是這次危機反而讓推動綠色路線圖（green road map）的動能更大。挑戰在於，P.J.，要能擴大綠色產能、取得再生能源，並把所有要素整合起來生產氫，還要找到一種載體（carrier），使其在大規模落地後具備成本效益；挑戰就在這裡。

So we are, obviously, working closely with a number of different customers who are very keen to go down that path. You would have seen announcements we made. We got 2x100 megawatts. So that's a 200 megawatt order from RWE to work to kind of get their energy balance up from a green hydrogen point of view. But again, all of those projects take time and the scalability continues to be a little bit of a challenge.

因此，我們當然正與多家非常希望走這條路的客戶密切合作。你也應該看過我們發布的公告。我們拿到了 2×100 兆瓦，也就是來自 RWE 的 200 兆瓦訂單，協助他們從綠氫角度提升其能源平衡。但同樣地，這些專案都需要時間，而可擴展性仍然是一個有點棘手的挑戰。

And I have a question on neon. You mentioned you are supplying the U.S. and Germany. I believe you're adding some new capacity as well. And can you talk about sort of supply-demand of neon, I know a lot of that was in Ukraine. And then also, you talked about onshoring. And if electronics are onshoring, you see Intel build big clients. Do you have the supply in the U.S. to supply if the need comes up?

我還有一個關於氖氣（neon）的问题。你提到你們正在供應美國和德國。我相信你們也在新增一些產能。你能談談氖氣的供需情況嗎？我知道其中很大一部分來自烏克蘭。另外你也談到回流本土（onshoring）。如果電子產業回流本土，你看到英特爾（Intel）建置大型客戶端產能；若需求出現，你們在美國是否有足夠供應能力？

P.J., sure. So let me just take a step back and give you the overview and then let's get into the details in terms of where we stand. So the overview is about 1/3 of the world's refined neon comes out of Ukraine and Russia, about 1/3. Most players around the world have that sourcing built into their model. We are lucky in that our refining capacities really sit in Germany and U.S. and feed the entire world. So our kind of dependence on Ukraine and Russia is in the mid-teens, if you will, relative to other people being around 1/3. That positions us well.

P.J.，當然。讓我先退一步，先給你整體概覽，再進入我們目前狀況的細節。概覽是：全球約 1/3 的精製氖氣（refined neon）來自烏克蘭和俄羅斯，約三分之一。全球多數業者的供應來源模型都包含這部分。我們比較幸運的是，我們的精製產能主要位於德國與美國，並供應全球。因此，相較於其他人約三分之一的依賴度，我們對烏克蘭與俄羅斯的依賴大約在 10% 多（mid-teens）左右。這讓我們處於有利位置。

Obviously, prior to all of this happening in terms of the war in Ukraine, last year, we'd already made decisions, recognizing that semiconductor growth and, in fact, even space were likely to make rare gas demand continue to grow. So we're going to see some of that capacity come online this year and some early next year as well.

顯然，在烏克蘭戰爭爆發之前，去年我們就已經做出決策，認知到半導體成長，甚至太空領域，都可能使稀有氣體需求持續成長。因此，我們將在今年看到部分產能上線，明年初也會有一些產能投入。

As far as things stand, you referenced Germany and the U.S., we produce refined neon in Germany and the U.S. to multiple locations, which ensures that we're able to meet the entire global demand out of these locations. Of course, we can also meet all the onshoring needs that our customers like Intel, Samsung, TSMC, and others have in terms of coming out of either Germany or the U.S. as well. So we are very well positioned, and we are, of course, the largest producer of refined neon in the world.

就目前而言，你提到德國與美國，我們在德國與美國生產精製氖氣並供應至多個地點，這確保我們能夠從這些地點滿足全球整體需求。當然，我們也能滿足客戶如 Intel、Samsung、TSMC 等在回流本土方面的需求，無論是從德國或美國出貨。因此我們的布局非常到位；而且我們當然是全球最大的精製氖氣生產商。

Our next question comes from Jeff Zekauskas from JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通（JPMorgan）的 Jeff Zekauskas。

When I look at your electronics sales or sales growth. It seems that you're taking market share in that area as best as I can tell. Is that true? And Air Products and Air Liquide and Linde are all very, very competent companies that supply the electronics industry. Is there something that you can now technically do that the other two companies find it more difficult to do? Or are the wins that you're achieving more the result of intangibles, better service or better customer relationships?

當我看你們的電子業務銷售或銷售成長時，就我所能判斷的，你們似乎正在那個領域取得市占率。這是真的嗎？Air Products、Air Liquide 和 Linde 都是非常、非常有能力的公司，也都供應電子產業。你們現在是否在技術上能做到一些另外兩家公司較難做到的事？還是你們拿下的案子更多是因為無形因素，例如更好的服務或更好的客戶關係？

Thanks, Jeff. So the electronics wins that we had last year, Jeff, and you've heard me say this before in the last quarter as well. We did about $1 billion worth of project wins last year. And I may not have said this already, but I'm going to just say this now, which is that I expect that we'll have a healthy project backlog growth this year from electronics as well. So clearly, it does point to the fact that we are providing a solution to our customers that is very appealing for them. And that's really a combination.

謝謝你，Jeff。關於我們去年在電子領域拿下的案子，Jeff，你也聽我在上一季提過。我們去年大約拿下了價值10億美元的專案勝利。我可能之前還沒說過，但我現在就先說：我預期今年電子業務也會帶來健康的專案積壓（backlog）成長。所以很明顯，這指向我們正在為客戶提供一個對他們非常有吸引力的解決方案。而這其實是多種因素的結合。

I think you hit on all of the elements within that. We have some great technology. We've been able to take the relationships that we had, Praxair relationship with Samsung with Linde's relationship with TSMC and both dealing with Intel. We've been able to take that and be able to kind of create both solutions, leveraging relationships and of course, operational excellence, which is critical as far as electronics business is concerned. Those fabs want to see highly reliable, extremely safe operations, and we are able to package all of that and bring it to bear to get those win rates up where we like to see them.

我想你已經點出了其中所有要素。我們有一些很棒的技術。我們也能把既有的關係帶進來——Praxair 與 Samsung 的關係、Linde 與 TSMC 的關係，以及雙方都與 Intel 往來——我們能把這些整合起來，某種程度上打造出兩種解決方案：一方面運用關係，另一方面當然是運營卓越，而這對電子業務至關重要。那些晶圓廠希望看到高度可靠、極度安全的運作，而我們能把這一切打包整合並落地，進而把我們的得標率提升到我們希望看到的水準。

Okay. And just a follow up. When I look at your income statement, it seems that your SG&A costs, again, I think last year, they were about flat. And this year, at least in the first quarter, they're up a couple of percent. There's really no movement in research and development expenses. How do you keep your overhead growing at such a slow rate?

好的。再追問一下。當我看你們的損益表時，似乎你們的 SG&A 成本——我想去年大致持平——而今年至少在第一季，上升了幾個百分點。研發費用則幾乎沒有變動。你們是如何讓管理費用以這麼慢的速度成長的？

I'm going to kind of touch on the principle of that and just kind of tell you how we look at that business every day, essentially, Jeff, as you've probably heard me say it before. So when we think about how we manage our business and how we leverage what comes at the top line right down to the bottom, we think about it, coming through our variable margin. So that's where the productivity measures kick in and then tight management of total cash fixed costs. That's something that gets attention every month. It's something that our guys are managing every day. .

我先談談背後的原則，並跟你說我們每天是怎麼看待這門生意的，基本上，Jeff，你可能也聽我以前說過。當我們思考如何管理業務、以及如何把營收端（top line）的成果一路槓桿到最終利潤端（bottom line）時，我們會把它視為透過可變毛利（variable margin）來傳導。因此，生產力（productivity）指標就在這裡發揮作用，接著是對總現金固定成本（total cash fixed costs）的嚴格管理。這件事每個月都會被關注，我們的人每天都在管理。.

And as part of that, the sales and admin costs are something where we spend a lot of time scrutinizing. Now how does productivity play a role over there? Jeff, you've heard me talk about digital solutions previously. One of the things we do extremely well around our productivity actions, particularly when it comes to the fixed cost piece, is actively provide a lot of digital solutions into that space to make sure you're automating, to make sure that you're taking out where possible you're taking out heads, where possibly taking out effort. And I think all of that plays into that effort around managing your total cash fixed cost and within that, the subset being SG&A. I won't say to you that's rocket science there, Jeff. It's just the grind of managing that every day.

作為其中一部分，銷售與行政成本是我們花很多時間審視的項目。那麼生產力在那裡如何發揮作用？Jeff，你聽我以前談過數位化解決方案。我們在推動生產力行動方面做得非常好，特別是涉及固定成本那一塊：我們會積極導入大量數位化解決方案，確保流程自動化，並在可能的地方減少人力編制，在可能的地方減少投入的工時與努力。我認為這些都會回到管理總現金固定成本的努力上，而其中的子集合就是 SG&A。我不會跟你說這是什麼火箭科學，Jeff。這就是每天持續不斷地把它管好。

It looks like rocket science to me.

在我看來這就像火箭科學。

I could get excited by rockets, but we'll talk about that later.

我可以對火箭感到興奮，但我們晚點再聊。

Our next question comes from Nicola Tang from BNP Paribas Exane.

下一個問題來自 BNP Paribas Exane 的 Nicola Tang。

I wanted to ask a little bit more around kind of energy security and energy diversification, which has obviously been a topic in Europe, in particular on the back of the conflict. And we talked a little bit about clean hydrogen already on this call. But I was wondering if you could discuss whether Linde could play a part in terms of helping to diversify energy sources say, through LNG, for example, which is part of the EU's Repower EU Initiative.

我想再多問一點關於能源安全與能源多元化的議題，這顯然是歐洲的熱門話題，尤其是在衝突之後。我們在這通電話中也已經稍微談到潔淨氫能。但我想請你們談談，Linde 是否能在協助能源來源多元化方面扮演角色，例如透過 LNG（液化天然氣），這也是歐盟 Repower EU 倡議的一部分。

And then the second question also related to energy security is, if we did, hypothetically, see energy rationalization or curtailments in terms of access to Russian gas, et cetera. Can you discuss what the impact might be on Linde in that scenario? For example, would your take-or-pay contracts on the on-site business still be valid? I just have to understand a little bit more.

第二個同樣與能源安全相關的問題是：如果我們假設性地看到因取得俄羅斯天然氣等因素而出現能源配給或限供（curtailments），你能談談在那種情境下對 Linde 可能造成的影響嗎？例如，你們現場供氣（on-site）業務的 take-or-pay 合約是否仍然有效？我只是想更了解一些。

Thanks, Nicola. So let me start off by just talking about the energy diversity actions that are happening across Europe, in particular, as we speak and the role we could play in that. So we have actually as you think about it, as more capacity gets released on the engineering side, we have now the ability to go out and provide a greater focus around supporting governments and countries in their search for that energy diversity.

謝謝你，Nicola。那我先從目前歐洲正在進行的能源多元化行動談起，尤其是此刻正在發生的事情，以及我們可能扮演的角色。實際上，當你這樣想：隨著工程端釋放出更多產能，我們現在有能力走出去，更聚焦地支持各國政府與國家在尋求能源多元化方面的需求。

So I clearly see us playing a role around the LNG development that happens, given that we have that core competence around that. And obviously, we are in dialogue at the moment with a number of governments in looking and developing projects that will help support that. Now that does take a little bit of time. As you know, these are complex projects, but we are pleased that we have a role to play in there.

因此，我很清楚地看到我們會在 LNG 發展上扮演角色，因為我們在這方面具備核心能力。當然，我們目前也正與多個政府對話，尋找並開發能夠支持這些目標的專案。這確實需要一些時間。如你所知，這些都是複雜的專案，但我們很高興能在其中扮演一個角色。

Of course, EU's focus and the rebar kind of effort and policy statements, clearly have set out the intent of how that diversified energy portfolio will become crucial. We talked a little bit about clean hydrogen earlier on. I do see that in all our discussions that we're having with a number of these governments that, that intent will translate into action. I have to tell you that I am a little more optimistic now that there will be a role between green and blue.

當然，歐盟的重點以及 Repower 這類努力與政策聲明，已經清楚表達：多元化的能源組合將變得至關重要。我們先前也稍微談到潔淨氫能。我確實看到，在我們與多個政府的討論中，這個意圖會轉化為行動。我必須說，我現在更樂觀一些，認為綠氫與藍氫之間會有一個角色分工。

I think the recognition around the fact that blue hydrogen or blue ammonia will provide a good bridge to ultimately go in green, which is what we think a pragmatic policy direction would look like. I am seeing that there is a little more traction to that. And there is a general realization that scale up on blue can happen more quickly.

我認為大家逐漸認知到：藍氫或藍氨可以提供一個良好的過渡橋樑，最終走向綠氫——而這正是我們認為務實的政策方向應該呈現的樣子。我看到這方面的推進力更強了一些。也普遍意識到，藍氫的規模化可以更快發生。

Now all of this does mean, however, that there will be a combination of local projects, many of which will be green and imported in the elements of carriers that will provide either ammonia as an energy source, as an example, or hydrogen itself, either piked or in liquid form.

不過，這一切也意味著，未來會是本地專案與進口並行的組合：許多本地專案會是綠色的；而進口部分則會以載體（carriers）的形式進來，例如以氨作為能源來源，或是氫本身，可能透過管線輸送（piped）或以液態形式運輸。

And we see again that there's greater openness to understanding how those logistical challenges will get dealt with across countries and kind of setting out regimes just as Germany has using contract for differences as an example, to try and make sure that they get access to these developments that happen elsewhere in the world, allowing that import market to actually be set up and build the infrastructure that then allows that distribution of that energy to take place as well.

我們也再次看到，各國對於如何處理這些物流挑戰有更高的開放度，並開始建立制度——例如德國採用差價合約（contract for differences）——以確保他們能取得在世界其他地方發生的這些發展成果，讓進口市場得以真正建立，並建設基礎設施，進而也能讓這些能源的分配與輸送得以進行。

So all in, I'd say to you that Linde has a role to play, both from a point of view of the engineering that we can provide into that space and also in participating in the kind of downstream efforts that happen once that energy is made available. So I do feel good about that. I have to be honest and tell you, though, that all of this does take longer than people would like it to take. All of us would like to see this happen in the next few months, but unfortunately, these things tend to take years rather than months.

總體而言，我會跟你說，Linde 有角色可扮演：一方面是我們能提供的工程能力，另一方面是在能源可用之後，參與後段（downstream）相關的推進工作。所以我對此感到樂觀。不過我也必須坦白說，這一切所需時間比人們希望的更長。我們所有人都希望在接下來幾個月就看到進展，但不幸的是，這類事情往往是以年為單位，而不是以月為單位。

Now just talking about the energy curtailment piece that you briefly referenced. Obviously, as you would expect, we have a business company planning effort in Europe across most of our countries, in fact. And in Germany, in particular, we have run a number of different scenarios. We are actively engaged with both the power and natural gas providers but also for the governments locally.

接著談你簡單提到的能源限供部分。很顯然，如你所預期，我們在歐洲大多數國家都進行了業務連續性／公司規劃（company planning）工作。尤其在德國，我們已經跑過多種不同情境。我們也正積極與電力與天然氣供應商合作，同時也與地方政府保持互動。

There is a -- as you would appreciate, there is a part of our business, the air separation side, where we are providing crucial products, including medical oxygen to hospitals, which gets prioritized by government. So we appreciate that they understand that criticality of that.

如你所理解，我們業務中有一部分——空氣分離（air separation）——提供關鍵產品，包括供應醫院的醫用氧氣，這類供應會被政府優先保障。因此，我們也很感謝他們理解這件事的重要性。

And then on the other side, we don't have any direct exposure to Russian natural gas, but we do recognize that some of our customers will do that, and we are kind of working with governments and customers to make sure that we have those contingency plans in place. I can also -- I know the Polish example is top of mind for everyone. Just to give you a kind of sense on that, from our perspective, we will see a little or no impact from those developments.

然後在另一方面，我們並沒有直接曝險於俄羅斯天然氣，但我們確實認知到我們的一些客戶會有這樣的曝險，因此我們正與政府及客戶合作，確保已備妥相關的應變計畫。我也可以——我知道波蘭的例子是大家最關注的。就此給各位一點概念，從我們的角度來看，我們預期這些發展對我們的影響很小，甚至沒有影響。

And maybe I can give you an opportunity, Sanjiv, to talk about rockets and just ask a little bit on that side of the business. On Helium, you've announced this offtake agreement with Freeport from 2024 onwards. Can you talk a little bit about your expectations for the helium market, given I think there's some supply disruptions elsewhere? And just remind us maybe how big your exposure is.

也許我可以給你一個機會，Sanjiv，談談火箭，並就這一塊業務再多問一點。關於氦氣，你們已宣布自 2024 年起與 Freeport 的承購協議。鑑於我認為其他地方有一些供應中斷，你能否談談你對氦氣市場的預期？也請再提醒我們一下，你們的曝險規模大概有多大。

Sure. So thanks, Nicola. I appreciate that question. I'm going to talk about rockets, I get excited about it and then touch on helium a little bit and wrap it up. So as far as rockets are concerned, aerospace for us represents about 2% of our sales. And at some point, I think we're going to designate its own end market. It's been growing strong double digits for us for quite some time. And Linde is the largest supplier in this entire sector. So we're quite proud of that. .

當然。謝謝你，Nicola。我很感謝這個問題。我會先談火箭——我一談到這個就很興奮——然後再稍微提一下氦氣並作個總結。就火箭而言，航太對我們來說約占銷售額的 2%。在某個時間點，我想我們會把它指定為一個獨立的終端市場。這一塊長期以來對我們一直維持強勁的雙位數成長。而 Linde 是整個產業中最大的供應商，我們對此相當自豪。

Rockets consume many gases. And while it's primarily liquid oxygen, liquid hydrogen, some helium, often liquid nitrogen for densification of the fuel that is used. We also use Crypton and Xenon to help satellites with their propulsion systems to keep them in orbit. In addition to that, the reason I get excited is because here, we're able to bring the full benefit of Linde's portfolio, and we provide atomized powders for advanced manufacturing or 3D printing as it were for specific components and parts.

火箭會消耗許多氣體。主要是液態氧、液態氫，以及一些氦氣；也常使用液態氮來提高所用燃料的密度。我們也使用氪氣（Krypton）與氙氣（Xenon）來協助衛星的推進系統，使其維持在軌道上。除此之外，我之所以感到興奮，是因為在這裡我們能把 Linde 產品組合的全部優勢帶給客戶；我們也提供用於先進製造（或所謂 3D 列印）的霧化粉末，供特定零組件與零件使用。

And we also provide some specialized coatings out of our PST unit. So all in, it's kind of a comprehensive package of solutions that we can bring to these companies. And obviously, they greatly appreciate that. And I expect this to grow, as you can see from the number of launches you see in the news every other week now. So it's a good growth market. We are excited about it. We have some great tremendous solutions over here and that really positioned us extremely well and the U.S. market is growing leaps and bounds.

我們也透過 PST 事業單位提供一些專業塗層。總體而言，這是一套我們能帶給這些公司的完整解決方案組合，而他們顯然非常重視。我預期這會持續成長，因為你現在幾乎每隔一週就會在新聞中看到發射次數。這是一個很好的成長市場。我們對此感到振奮；我們在這裡有一些非常出色的解決方案，讓我們的定位極佳，而美國市場正以跳躍式速度成長。

On Helium itself, as you know, Helium is short. There are two major components at the moment kind of driving that. There is BLM in the U.S., which has the most significant impact. And most people were banking on some helium coming out of Amur in Russia. And we recognize that, that's going to be delayed. So it's likely for the rest of this year. I expect helium to remain quite tight.

至於氦氣本身，如你所知，氦氣供應吃緊。目前大致有兩個主要因素在推動這個情況。其一是美國的 BLM，影響最為顯著。其二是多數人原本指望俄羅斯阿穆爾（Amur）會有一些氦氣供應釋出；我們也認知到那將會延後。因此在今年剩餘時間裡，我預期氦氣仍會相當吃緊。

We're obviously seeing that incremental costs and pricing reflect a lot of that as we speak. So from our perspective, we didn't have any Russian helium in our sourcing last year. We have a good balance of sources across the world, multiple sources to exactly manage these kinds of issues that ultimately come up. So managing dozens of sources, ensuring that we kind of mitigate that risk and meeting our customers' needs is really kind of where helium is at, and we're seeing pricing trends hold up. I expect that to hold up for the rest of the year as well, given the tightness in the market.

我們顯然也看到增量成本與價格正在反映其中很大一部分影響。從我們的角度來看，我們去年在採購來源中並沒有俄羅斯氦氣。我們在全球有良好的來源平衡，並有多元來源來管理這類最終可能發生的問題。因此，管理數十個來源、確保我們能降低該風險並滿足客戶需求，基本上就是目前氦氣業務的重點；我們也看到價格趨勢仍能維持。我預期在市場供應吃緊的情況下，這種態勢在今年剩餘時間也會持續。

Our next question comes from Peter Clark from Societe Generale.

下一個問題來自法國興業銀行（Societe Generale）的 Peter Clark。

First one for Matt, actually. You made a very good point about the sell-off that Linde seems to suffer much smaller than its closest peer. It tends to be in the first quarter of the year. Obviously, that creates the opportunity for the share buybacks. And you've always made it clear when there's a correction in the share price, you go in big. You could certainly argue the share price remains depressed. You've been big entering Q2. I assume the pace of share buybacks is going to continue at quite a pace unless the shares correct upwards? That's the first question.

第一個問題其實是問 Matt。你提到一個很好的觀點：Linde 的股價拋售幅度似乎比最接近的同業小很多，而且往往發生在每年第一季。顯然，這也創造了股票回購的機會。你也一直很清楚地表示，當股價出現修正時，你們會大舉進場。你當然也可以說目前股價仍然偏低。你們在進入第二季時買得很積極。我猜除非股價向上修正，否則回購速度會維持相當快的節奏？這是第一個問題。

Peter, sure. So I can say we have very healthy cash flow. As you know, we follow our very disciplined capital allocation policy, which, to repeat for those on the call, is we have a mandate to maintain an A, raise the dividend. Our priority is to invest in the business and all the excess cash goes to our buybacks. And right now, we still have a lot of excess cash.

Peter，當然。我可以說我們的現金流非常健康。如你所知，我們遵循非常嚴謹的資本配置政策；為了讓電話會議上的各位再複述一次：我們的任務是維持 A 級評等、提高股利。我們的優先事項是投資於業務，而所有多餘的現金都用於回購。而目前我們仍有大量多餘現金。

We expect a lot of excess cash and we have the $10 billion authorization program. So to your point, we did about $1.7 billion or so in Q1. We are in blackout right now into the 10b5-1 just given we are into the earnings. We'll be active again come Monday. And yes, we will continue to sweep excess cash to the buybacks and we see that as a great opportunity right now, frankly, based on the pricing. So we will be active, and we will be in the market every day.

我們預期會有大量多餘現金，而且我們有 100 億美元的授權計畫。因此如你所說，我們在第一季大約回購了 17 億美元。目前因為進入財報期間，依 10b5-1 規則我們正處於禁售期（blackout）。我們會在週一恢復積極操作。是的，我們會持續把多餘現金用於回購；坦白說，以目前的價格水準來看，我們認為這是很好的機會。因此我們會很活躍，並且每天都會在市場上。

Excellent. One for you, Sanjiv. On Europe, I think you made the comment, you're surprised it held up so well, I think, in terms of the activity, maybe, I don't know. But I mean, certainly, one of your peers pointed to the bulk gas is starting to get sluggish through the quarter. I'm just wondering your thoughts on Europe, particularly when I look at bulk and cylinder, I guess your merchant pricing must be something like 20% now as you pass on this energy surge. Just wondering how you feel about the demand outlook in Europe, particularly.

很好。接著問你，Sanjiv。關於歐洲，我想你提到你對它撐得這麼好感到驚訝，我想是就活動量而言吧，也許——我不確定。但我的意思是，你們某個同業指出，大宗氣體在本季期間開始變得疲弱。我只是想了解你對歐洲的看法，特別是當我看大宗與鋼瓶（cylinder）時，我猜你們的商用（merchant）定價在把能源飆升轉嫁出去之後，現在大概已經是 20% 左右了。想請問你對歐洲需求展望的感受，尤其是歐洲這一塊。

Thanks, Peter. So that is the point I was making, that I was really pleased to see how resilient the merchants, i.e., the bulk and the package side of the business has been right through the first quarter despite the fact that we had to put significant price increases through as a result of the energy cost increase that we saw. So that's held up reasonably well, Peter, I'm hesitant to try and speculate what that market might do. There are, of course, a number of variables in that market. But I was surprised pleasantly that it had held and been quite resilient. And I have to say that as we move beyond the first quarter, that trend hasn't changed in any significant way thus far.

謝謝你，Peter。我想表達的重點是：我很高興看到商用端——也就是大宗與包裝（package）業務——在整個第一季都展現出很強的韌性，儘管因為我們看到能源成本上升，必須推動相當幅度的漲價。因此到目前為止表現還算不錯，Peter。我不太願意去推測那個市場接下來會怎麼走，因為那個市場當然有許多變數。但我確實很驚喜它能撐住並且相當有韌性。並且我必須說，隨著我們走出第一季，到目前為止這個趨勢並沒有出現任何顯著改變。

Excellent. So there's no evidence of demand disruption at this point on pricing or anything like that?

很好。所以到目前為止，沒有看到因為定價或類似因素而造成需求受干擾的跡象？

All I look at is a volume trend line at the moment, Peter, and that's not suggesting that for now.

Peter，我目前只看量的趨勢線，而就目前來看，並沒有顯示出那樣的情況。

Our next question comes from John McNulty, BMO Capital Markets.

下一個問題來自 BMO Capital Markets 的 John McNulty。

Sanjiv, so early in your remarks, you kind of highlighted on Slide 3, the various business segments. And you mentioned healthcare was arguably maybe, I hesitate to quite put it this way, but over-earning just given COVID and that might -- that's come off a bit and it may continue. It sounds like to come off at least a little bit. .

Sanjiv，你在一開始的談話中，在第 3 張投影片上提到了各個業務部門。你提到醫療保健可能——我有點不太敢這樣說——但可能因為 COVID 而出現超額獲利，而那部分已經回落了一些，而且可能還會繼續回落。聽起來至少還會再回落一點。

Can you help us to understand in terms of the other major end markets that you serve, where they are relative to kind of the pre-COVID levels in terms of volumes? Are there some that are still kind of noticeably below? I think you indicated Food & Beverage was seeing a nice recovery not quite sure if that's back to normal yet or not. But maybe you can give us some color as to relative to kind of "normal" expectations or normal volumes where each of the -- each of those businesses are at this point?

你能否協助我們理解：就你們服務的其他主要終端市場而言，它們的量相對於 COVID 前的水準目前處於什麼位置？是否有一些仍明顯低於先前水準？我想你提到食品與飲料正在不錯地復甦，但不確定是否已回到正常。也許你可以提供一些補充說明：相對於所謂「正常」的預期或正常出貨量，目前各個——各個業務現在大概處於什麼狀態？

Sure, John. So let me first clarify health care, and then let me talk about some of the other end markets as well. So on health care, we saw the trend was flat. And really, what I was emphasizing was in the developed countries I'm finding that elective surgeries are increasing. As you know, these have been kind of put on hold through the COVID period. They are all coming back. That's where a lot of the oxygen usage is there. And then we're finding COVID volumes offsetting by declining, particularly in the emerging markets. So that trend is why we are seeing the flattish kind of volume around the healthcare piece. And I said earlier, I expect healthcare will be back at its kind of long-term trend of mid-single digit in due course.

當然，John。那我先釐清一下醫療保健，然後也談談其他一些終端市場。就醫療保健而言，我們看到趨勢持平。其實我強調的是，在已開發國家，我發現選擇性手術正在增加。如你所知，這些在 COVID 期間某種程度上被擱置了。現在都在回來。那裡是氧氣用量很大的一塊。接著我們也看到 COVID 相關量在下降，特別是在新興市場。因此，這個趨勢就是為什麼我們在醫療保健這一塊看到的量是偏持平的。正如我先前說的，我預期醫療保健最終會回到其長期的中等個位數成長趨勢。

Coming back to your other question around pre-COVID levels versus where we are on all our end markets. And I'll say to you more broadly, most end markets across most geographies are at or above pre-COVID level. So we've seen good recovery. We've seen that embedded in those different markets, and we've been quite pleased to see that recovery. You saw most of that in 2021 as well. And clearly, the momentum, as you can see from that Slide 3 that I put up, there's a lot of green on that slide, which is a good sign, as you can see.

回到你另一個問題，也就是相較於 COVID 之前的水準，我們在各終端市場目前的位置。我更廣泛地說，多數地區的多數終端市場都已達到或高於 COVID 之前的水準。所以我們看到良好的復甦。我們也看到這些不同市場中已反映出這種復甦，而我們也很高興看到這樣的復甦。你在 2021 年也看到其中大部分。很明顯地，從我展示的第 3 張投影片你也可以看到動能，那張投影片上有很多綠色，這是個好跡象，如你所見。

So if I kind of maybe pick up a couple. Electronics, no need to comment on that. As you know, it's well above pre-COVID levels and has been highly resilient and continues to grow. And as I said earlier, I expect that growth to continue. Momentum around investments is still there, and we are winning more than our fair share of that. So I feel good about that.

所以如果我挑幾個來說。電子產業就不需要多評論了。如你所知，它遠高於 COVID 前水準，一直非常有韌性且持續成長。正如我先前說的，我預期這個成長會延續。投資動能仍在，我們拿到的份額也超過我們應得的比例。所以我對此感覺良好。

The ones that I think people kind of are watching carefully, chemicals and energy, again, very strong market movement over here. We are finding that 17% year-on-year growth, pretty solid number out there, John. But also, as I think about our footprint in the U.S. and just to emphasize this, this is where I see the growth going to be as we go forward. That is crucial because the U.S. refiners and the U.S. chemical companies have a natural advantage from competitive natural gas pricing that gives them that ability to export into market elsewhere, where that energy price increases make local production a lot less competitive. And I expect that momentum to continue in the mid- to -- so I'll say next 2 to 5 years, if you will.

我認為大家比較密切關注的是化學品與能源；同樣地，這裡的市場動向非常強勁。我們看到年增 17% 的成長，這是相當扎實的數字，John。但同時，當我想到我們在美國的佈局並再強調一次，這就是我看到未來成長將會發生的地方。這點至關重要，因為美國煉油商與美國化工公司因具競爭力的天然氣價格而有天然優勢，使他們能夠出口到其他市場；在那些市場，能源價格上升使得當地生產的競爭力大幅下降。我預期這股動能會在中期持續——我會說未來 2 到 5 年。

Metals & Mining, again, impacted really around the Chinese curtailments, the dual control policy, et cetera, which is helping the rest of the world pick production up. And again, I am seeing continued investment in that space. We will see some decarbonization efforts happen in that space as well, which will provide a different kind of growth for us.

金屬與礦業同樣受到中國限產、雙控政策等等的影響，這反而有助於世界其他地區提升產量。同時，我也看到該領域持續投資。我們也會看到該領域出現一些去碳化（減碳）努力，這也將為我們帶來不同型態的成長。

But notwithstanding that, again, we expect to see that continue. Manufacturing is where a lot of people have questions, obviously, supply chain challenges, chip shortages for auto, et cetera. And again, the underlying growth over there, the underlying demand looks solid, and we feel good about where that stands today. Obviously, we'll have to watch carefully how IP develops, and that's going to kind of be driven in part by how manufacturing continues to demonstrate that resilience.

儘管如此，我們仍預期這會持續。製造業是很多人有疑問的地方，顯然有供應鏈挑戰、汽車用晶片短缺等等。不過，那裡的基本成長、基本需求看起來仍然穩健，我們對目前的狀況感到樂觀。當然，我們必須密切觀察 IP 的發展，而這在某種程度上將取決於製造業是否能持續展現韌性。

And we'll now take our last question today from Mike Leithead from Barclays.

接下來我們今天的最後一個問題，來自 Barclays 的 Mike Leithead。

Just one for me, a question for Sanjiv. I just wanted to ask on the 300 or so decarbonization projects you're looking at. I think last quarter, you sized the probability adjusted investment potential at around $4 billion or so. And then today, I believe you said $5 billion. So just really just trying to get a sense, are there more projects you're looking at now? Are you just getting more confident in some of these projects actually getting to realization?

我這邊只有一個問題，想問 Sanjiv。關於你們正在評估的大約 300 個去碳化專案。我記得上季你們把經機率調整後的投資潛力估在大約 40 億美元左右。而今天我相信你提到的是 50 億美元。所以我主要想了解的是：你們現在在看更多專案嗎？還是你們對其中一些專案實際落地的信心提高了？

Mike, the number of projects that held around 300 that I spoke about last quarter as well. What tends to happen is really the portfolio of projects churn quite a bit. as you would expect, and we are adding some larger projects. I'm really pleased that on the industrial side, I'm seeing a lot more activity. That's right in the wheelhouse. We are incumbent in many of those positions.

Mike，我上季提到的大約 300 個專案數量仍然差不多。通常會發生的是，正如你所預期，專案組合會有相當程度的汰換與變動，而我們也在加入一些更大型的專案。我很高興在工業端看到更多活動。那正是我們的強項所在。我們在其中許多位置上本來就是既有供應商。

We are working with existing customers and that really gives me a lot more confidence. And as you know, we are very discerning around the projects that we want to do because we feel that we want to have an offtake or part of that kind of contractual positioning around clean energy, and then we need to have the ability to be able to serve that, whether it's blue or green from technologies that we can access easily and have a demonstrated operational capability on.

我們正與既有客戶合作，這確實讓我更有信心。如你所知，我們對想做的專案非常審慎，因為我們認為需要在潔淨能源方面有承購（offtake）或某種合約定位；同時我們也需要具備交付能力，無論是藍氫或綠氫，都必須來自我們能容易取得的技術，並且我們在營運上已證明具備執行能力。

You put all of that together, that's kind of what's leading to that $5 billion number. I wouldn't read too much into $4 billion and $5 billion, to be honest. The absolute number is in 20s. We put a fairly stringent probability adjustment to that portfolio to get to that 5. It's likely more than 5, to be honest. And I feel good about the quality of projects we are seeing. And there is -- you're right in pointing out that there is a higher degree of certainty around those as we continue to work with our customers and partners on them.

把這些因素綜合起來，就導向了 50 億美元這個數字。老實說，我不會對 40 億與 50 億之間的差異做太多解讀。絕對金額其實是在 200 多億的區間。我們對該專案組合做了相當嚴格的機率調整，才得到這個 50 億。坦白說，很可能高於 50 億。我對我們看到的專案品質感到樂觀。而且——你說得對——隨著我們持續與客戶及合作夥伴推進，這些專案的確定性也更高。

With this, I would like to hand the call back over to our speakers for any additional or closing remarks.

接下來，我想把電話交回給我們的講者，看看是否有任何補充或結語。

Sergey, thank you. Thank you, everyone, on the line. Really appreciate it. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out. Have a great rest of your day. Take care.

Sergey，謝謝。也謝謝線上的各位。非常感謝。如果你們還有任何進一步問題，歡迎隨時聯繫。祝各位今天剩下的時間一切順利。保重。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位女士先生的參與。您現在可以掛線。