loanDepot Inc (LDI) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and welcome to loanDepot's third quarter 2024 earnings call. (Operator Instructions). I would now like to turn today's call over to Gerhard Erdelji. Senior Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

下午好，歡迎參加 loanDepot 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員指令）。現在我想將今天的電話轉給格哈德·埃爾德爾吉 (Gerhard Erdelji)。投資者關係資深副總裁。請繼續。

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our third quarter 2024 earnings call.

謝謝。大家下午好，感謝您參加我們的 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。

Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone that this conference call may include forward-looking statements regarding the company's operating and financial performance in future periods. All statements other than statements of historical fact are statements that could be deemed forward-looking statements, including, but not limited to, guidance to our pull-through weighted rate lock volume, origination volume, pull-through weighted gain on sale margin and expense trends.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒大家，本次電話會議可能包含有關公司未來期間的營運和財務表現的前瞻性陳述。除歷史事實陳述之外的所有陳述均可被視為前瞻性陳述，包括但不限於對我們的拉動加權利率鎖定量、發起量、拉動加權銷售保證金收益和費用趨勢的指導。

These statements are based on the company's current expectations and available information. Actual results for future periods may differ materially from these forward-looking statements due to risks or other factors that are described in the Risk Factors section of our filings with the SEC.

這些聲明是基於公司目前的預期和可用資訊。由於我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中「風險因素」部分所述的風險或其他因素，未來期間的實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述有重大差異。

Our presentation today contains certain non-GAAP financial measures that we believe provide additional insight into analyzing and benchmarking performance and value of our business and facilitating company-to-company operating performance comparisons. For more details on these non-GAAP financial measures, including reconciliation to the most directly comparable GAAP measures, please refer to today's earnings release, which is available on our website at investors.loandepot.com. A webcast and a transcript of this call will be posted on our website after the conclusion of this call.

我們今天的介紹包含某些非公認會計準則財務指標，我們相信這些指標可以為分析和衡量我們業務的績效和價值以及促進公司間營運績效比較提供額外的見解。有關這些非 GAAP 財務指標的更多詳細信息，包括與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的調節，請參閱今天的收益報告，該報告可在我們的網站 investor.loandepot.com 上找到。本次電話會議的網路直播和記錄將在本次電話會議結束後發佈在我們的網站上。

On today's call, we have loanDepot President and Chief Executive Officer, Frank Martell; and Chief Financial Officer, Dave Hayes, to provide an overview of our quarter as well as our financial and operational results outlook and to answer your questions. We are also joined by Chief Investment Officer, Jeff DerGurahian; and LDI Mortgage President, Jeff Walsh, to help address any questions you might have after our prepared remarks.

今天的電話會議由 loanDepot 總裁兼執行長 Frank Martell 主持；和財務長戴夫海斯（Dave Hayes）概述了我們的季度狀況以及我們的財務和營運業績前景，並回答了您的問題。首席投資長 Jeff DerGurahian 也加入我們；以及 LDI 抵押貸款總裁 Jeff Walsh，幫助我們解答您在我們準備好的演講後可能遇到的任何問題。

With that, I'll turn things over to Frank to get us started. Frank?

說完這些，我會把事情交給弗蘭克來幫助我們開始。坦率？

Thank you, Gerhard. I appreciate everyone taking the time to join us on the call today. LoanDepot returned to profitability in the third quarter through the successful implementation of our Vision 2025 strategic program. Our results were driven by higher origination volumes, margin expansion and the benefit of our process improvement and cost productivity programs.

謝謝你，格哈德。我感謝大家今天抽出時間參加我們的電話會議。LoanDepot 透過成功實施我們的 2025 願景策略計劃，在第三季恢復了獲利能力。我們的業績得益於更高的發起量、利潤率的提高以及流程改進和成本生產力計劃帶來的好處。

As our shareholders know well, we announced Vision 2025 in July of 2022 in response to one of the most abrupt and significant contractions in housing and mortgage volumes in a generation. Over the past three years, Vision 2025 has been our battle plan to both deal with the realities of a significantly smaller market and positioned the company for long-term success. Achieving Vision 2025 was truly a team effort as we navigated turbulent market conditions over the past three years.

正如我們的股東所熟知，我們於 2022 年 7 月宣布了“2025 願景”，以應對一代人以來最突然、最嚴重的住房和抵押貸款量萎縮之一。在過去三年中，2025 願景一直是我們的作戰計劃，旨在應對市場規模大幅縮小的現實，並為公司的長期成功做好準備。在過去三年動盪的市場條件下，我們成功實現 2025 願景，這確實是一個團隊共同努力的成果。

Before I talk about our new strategic plan, it's worth noting some of the key accomplishments of our Vision 2025 plan, which had four strategic pillars. Pillar one focused on transforming the company's origination business and driving purchase transactions with an expanded emphasis on purpose-driven lending and first-time homebuyers. Over the past three years, we've added new products to address affordability issues, grew our VA lending operation, expanded our business footprint with homebuilders and enhance our mellohome offerings.

在我談論我們的新戰略計劃之前，值得一提的是我們的「2025願景」計劃的一些主要成就，該計劃有四大戰略支柱。支柱一專注於轉變公司的發起業務和推動購買交易，並更加重視目的驅動型貸款和首次購屋者。在過去三年中，我們增加了新產品來解決負擔能力問題，發展了我們的 VA 貸款業務，擴大了我們與房屋建築商的業務範圍，並增強了我們的 mellohome 產品。

Pillar two centered on investing in profitable growth generating initiatives and launching innovative new solutions that form the foundation of a life cycle relationship with first-time homebuyers and owners. In this area, we launched a portfolio of home equity products, including a home equity line of credit and a stand-alone second mortgage loan. We also introduced our next-generation [mellownow] digital underwriting engine and brought our servicing business in-house.

第二大支柱是投資於獲利性成長計畫並推出創新的新解決方案，為與首次購屋者和業主建立生命週期關係奠定基礎。在這一領域，我們推出了一系列房屋淨值產品，包括房屋淨值信貸額度和獨立的二次抵押貸款。我們也推出了下一代 [mellownow] 數位承保引擎，並將我們的服務業務引入內部。

Pillar three centered on reducing complexity and simplifying our organizational structure with an emphasis on client engagement, quality, automation and operating leverage. Over the past couple of years, we have revamped our compensation programs to drive revenues and best-in-class quality while supporting the recruitment, training and retention of the best available health. We also reduced a number of organizational and management layers and eliminated unnecessarily silos in many parts of our organization.

第三大支柱是降低複雜性和簡化我們的組織結構，專注於客戶參與、品質、自動化和營運槓桿。在過去的幾年中，我們修改了薪酬計劃，以推動收入和一流的質量，同時支持招募、培訓和保留最優秀的健康人才。我們也減少了一些組織和管理層級，並消除了組織中許多部門不必要的孤島。

And finally, Pillar number four are focused on aligning loanDepot's cost structure with market realities while simultaneously investing in our long-term goal of becoming the lowest cost by its quality producer. From the second quarter of 2022, the end of the third quarter of 2024, and -- we reduced annualized nonvolume expenses by over $730 million. While achieving top quartile loan quality production.

最後，第四個支柱致力於使 loanDepot 的成本結構與市場現實保持一致，同時投資於我們的長期目標，即成為品質最優、成本最低的生產商。從 2022 年第二季到 2024 年第三季末，我們將年度非批量支出減少了 7.3 億美元以上。同時實現前四分位貸款品質生產。

Achieving the objectives outlined in Vision 2025 and -- has been instrumental in successfully navigating this historic downturn in the mortgage market. We successfully reset the organization for the realities of the current market, but it's important to understand that Vision 2025 was far more than just a cost-cutting exercise.

實現「2025年願景」中概述的目標對於成功度過抵押貸款市場的這次歷史性低迷起到了重要作用。我們成功地根據當前市場的現實情況重新設定了組織機構，但我們必須明白，2025 願景絕不僅僅是一項削減成本的舉措。

We created new operational capabilities and made significant and strategic investments in our people, our products and our technology platforms that are intended to position the company for differentiated market leadership as the housing market recovers.

我們創造了新的營運能力，並對我們的人才、產品和技術平台進行了重大和策略性的投資，旨在隨著房地產市場的復甦，使公司佔據差異化的市場領導地位。

As we look forward to a healthier and more normalized housing market, it is now time for the company to look forward to a new horizon and focus on capitalizing on our many opportunities to offer differentiated value proposition to our stakeholders. To this end, I'm pleased to announce the launch of Project North Star, our new strategic blueprint for the next three years.

當我們期待一個更健康、更規範的房地產市場時，現在是時候讓公司展望新的前景，並專注於利用我們的眾多機會為我們的利害關係人提供差異化的價值主張。為此，我很高興宣布啟動“北極星計劃”，這是我們未來三年的新戰略藍圖。

Project North Star builds on the foundational imperatives of Vision 2025, and -- including our focus on durable revenue growth, positive operating leverage, best-in-class productivity and investments in platforms and solutions that support and ultimately transform our customers' homeownership journey.

北極星計畫以「2025 願景」的基本要求為基礎，包括我們對持久收入成長、積極的營運槓桿、一流的生產力以及對支持並最終改變客戶購房之旅的平台和解決方案的投資。

The 5 strategic pillars of Project North Star are as follows. Pillar number one, to become the leading partner -- a lending partner of choice for homeowners with an emphasis on first-time homebuyers, supporting those clients to the life cycle of their homeownership journey. To do this, we plan to develop and launch a unique AI powered relationship management and engagement platform that allows our customers to optimize their home buying, selling, equity optimization and home management experiences.

北極星計畫的五大戰略支柱如下。支柱一是成為領先的合作夥伴——成為房主的首選貸款合作夥伴，重點關注首次購房者，為這些客戶的購房生命週期提供支援。為此，我們計劃開發並推出一個獨特的人工智慧關係管理和參與平台，讓我們的客戶能夠優化他們的購房、賣房、股權優化和房屋管理體驗。

Pillar two focuses on growing our purchase mortgage reach and capabilities through an expanded geographic footprint and partnerships with key industry participants, including realtors and builders.

第二大支柱是透過擴大地理覆蓋範圍以及與房地產經紀人和建築商等主要行業參與者建立合作夥伴關係來擴大我們的購買抵押貸款覆蓋範圍和能力。

Pillar three focuses on continuing to invest in at scale our servicing portfolio and maintain best-in-class recapture rates.

第三大支柱是繼續大規模投資我們的服務組合，並維持一流的回收率。

Pillar four focuses on building out our low touch, automated, data-driven mortgage loan processing workflow to drive operating leverage, quality and to substantially drive turn times down. In this term, we will support a superior customer experience and ultimately, higher revenue as we deliver a consistent durable margins and profitability.

第四大支柱是重點建立我們的低接觸、自動化、數據驅動的抵押貸款處理工作流程，以提高營運槓桿和質量，並大幅縮短週轉時間。在這一任期內，我們將提供卓越的客戶體驗，並最終實現更高的收入，同時提供持續穩定的利潤率和獲利能力。

And finally, pillar five is about becoming the mortgage industry's employer of choice, successfully recruiting, developing and retaining the best talent available. We will continue to simplify our organization, reduce management layers and eliminate unnecessary silos to increase innovation and ownership throughout the enterprise.

最後，第五個支柱是成為抵押貸款行業的首選雇主，成功招募、培養和留住最優秀的人才。我們將繼續簡化組織機構，減少管理層級，消除不必要的孤島，以增強整個企業的創新和主人翁精神。

We embarked on Project North Star, confident in the talent and resilience of the 4,500-plus members of team loanDepot. We believe our team, coupled with our unique multichannel platform provides the key ingredients needed to become the go-to lending partner for increasingly diverse communities homeowners, including first-time homebuyers and support those clients throughout the life cycle of their homeownership journey.

我們啟動了北極星項目，對 loanDepot 團隊 4,500 多名成員的才能和韌性充滿信心。我們相信，我們的團隊加上我們獨特的多通路平台提供了成為日益多樣化社區房主（包括首次購房者）的首選貸款合作夥伴所需的關鍵因素，並在這些客戶的整個購房生命週期內為他們提供支持。

I will wrap up my prepared remarks today with a few observations on the current outlook for housing and mortgage markets. Over the past couple of years, the housing market has experienced challenges that have resulted in the lowest volume of existing and overall home sales since 1995.

今天，我將以對當前住房和抵押貸款市場前景的一些看法來結束我準備好的演講。過去幾年，房地產市場經歷了挑戰，導致現有房屋銷售量和整體房屋銷售量降至 1995 年以來的最低水準。

The factors that contributed to lower home sales, including the persistent lack of housing stock fueled by chronic underbuilding; the hangover for ultra-low mortgage rates in 2020 and 2021 and an affordability crisis impacting many first-time homebuyers can only be addressed through a concerted public-private cooperation.

導致房屋銷售下降的因素包括長期建設不足導致的房屋存量持續短缺；只有透過公私合作，才能解決 2020 年和 2021 年超低抵押貸款利率的後遺症以及影響許多首次購房者的負擔能力危機。

Despite these challenges looking forward, the Mortgage Bankers Association recently forecast 2025 mortgage market volumes at $2.3 trillion, which is up from a forecast of $1.8 trillion for 2024. The MBA forecast for 2025 assumes a progressive moderation of mortgage rates as well as more homes for sale.

儘管面臨這些挑戰，但抵押貸款銀行家協會最近預測 2025 年抵押貸款市場規模將達到 2.3 兆美元，高於 2024 年 1.8 兆美元的預測。MBA 對 2025 年的預測表明，抵押貸款利率將逐步下降，同時待售房屋數量將增加。

Based on this and other internal market intelligence, we believe there is an increasing possibility for upward trend in housing transactions and mortgage market activities led initially by growing household formation trends and supported by demand for home equity linked mortgage products for home improvement, debt consolidation or personal liquidity management.

基於此和其他內部市場情報，我們認為房屋交易和抵押貸款市場活動呈現上升趨勢的可能性越來越大，這種趨勢最初是由不斷增長的家庭組建趨勢所引領，並受到用於房屋裝修、債務合併或個人流動性管理的房屋淨值掛鉤抵押貸款產品的需求所推動。

With the successful completion of Vision 2025 and an exciting new plan ahead in terms of Project North Star, we believe loanDepot is well positioned to capitalize on improving market conditions in 2025 and beyond.

隨著「2025 願景」的成功完成以及「北極星計畫」令人興奮的新計劃，我們相信 loanDepot 已做好準備，利用 2025 年及以後不斷改善的市場條件。

In closing, I'd like to thank every member of team loanDepot, as well as our other key stakeholders for their ongoing support. Working together toward a common purpose, you've demonstrated your tenacity, commitment and resilience in the face of significant adversity all the while delivering important positive changes and forward momentum for the company.

最後，我要感謝 loanDepot 團隊的每一位成員，以及我們其他主要利害關係人的持續支持。為了一個共同的目標，你們共同努力，在重大逆境中表現出了堅韌、承諾和韌性，同時為公司帶來了重要的積極變化和前進的動力。

With that, I'll now turn the call over to Dave, who will take us through the financial results in more detail.

說完這些，我現在將電話轉給戴夫，他將向我們更詳細地介紹財務結果。

Thanks, Frank, and good afternoon, everyone. We are pleased that the successful completion of the strategic objectives of Vision 2025 has delivered the company's first profitable quarter since the beginning of the market downturn in the first quarter of 2022. The third quarter served as validation of our strategy as we saw a modest improvement in the mortgage market, which, when coupled with the company's positive operating leverage, fueled our return to profitability.

謝謝，弗蘭克，大家下午好。我們很高興看到2025願景策略目標的成功完成，使公司實現了自2022年第一季市場低迷開始以來的第一個獲利季度。第三季驗證了我們的策略，因為我們看到抵押貸款市場略有改善，再加上公司的積極經營槓桿，推動了我們恢復獲利。

Now as we embark on Project North Star, we transitioned to a company posture that focuses on consistent profitability and shareholder returns by growing stable revenue sources and investing in processes that will result in positive operating leverage. We reported adjusted net income of $7 million in the third quarter compared to an adjusted net loss of $29 million in the third quarter of 2023 due primarily to higher adjusted revenues from higher volume and gain on sale margins.

現在，隨著我們著手實施北極星項目，我們透過增加穩定的收入來源和投資於能夠產生積極經營槓桿的流程，轉變為專注於持續盈利和股東回報的公司姿態。我們報告第三季的調整後淨收入為 700 萬美元，而 2023 年第三季的調整後淨虧損為 2,900 萬美元，這主要歸因於銷售增加和銷售利潤率提高導致的調整後收入增加。

During the third quarter, pull-through weighted rate lock volume was $6.7 billion, which represented a 19% increase from the prior year's volume of $5.8 billion, and reflected the impact of lower rates for a portion of the quarter. Rate block volume came in on the high end of the guidance we issued last quarter of $5 billion to $7 billion and contributed to adjusted total revenue of $320 million compared to $261 million in the third quarter of 2023.

第三季度，拉動加權利率鎖定量為 67 億美元，較去年同期的 58 億美元成長 19%，反映了本季部分時間利率下降的影響。利率區塊交易量達到我們上個季度發布的 50 億至 70 億美元指引的高位，並貢獻了 2023 年第三季調整後總收入 3.2 億美元，而 2023 年第三季為 2.61 億美元。

Our multichannel strategy has proven successful in the third quarter by delivering higher year-over-year volume of purchase originations in a supply-constrained market. And a meaningful increase in refinance originations, particularly during the period in the third quarter where long-term interest rates fell. Our pull-through weighted gain on sale margin for the third quarter came in at 329 basis points above our guidance of 280 to 300 basis points and compared to 293 basis points in the prior year.

我們的多通路策略在第三季取得了成功，在供應受限的市場中實現了同比增長的購買量。再融資發起量顯著增加，特別是在第三季長期利率下降期間。我們第三季的加權銷售利潤率收益比我們預期的 280 至 300 個基點高出 329 個基點，而去年同期為 293 個基點。

Our higher gain on sale margin primarily benefited from a channel mix away from JV toward our other channels and wider overall margins across our primary product set.

我們較高的銷售利潤率主要受益於從合資企業向其他管道的通路組合，以及主要產品組合中更高的整體利潤率。

Our loan origination volume was $6.7 billion for the quarter, an increase of 9% from the prior year's volume was $6.1 billion. This was also near the high end of the guidance we issued last quarter of between $5 billion and $7 billion. Servicing fee income increased from $121 million in the third quarter of 2023 and -- to $124 million in the third quarter of 2024, due in part to higher earnings credits on custodial balances from higher interest rates and higher custodial balances.

本季我們的貸款發放量為 67 億美元，比去年同期的 61 億美元成長了 9%。這也接近我們上個季度發布的 50 億美元至 70 億美元指引的高端。服務費收入從 2023 年第三季的 1.21 億美元增至 2024 年第三季的 1.24 億美元，部分原因是更高的利率和更高的託管餘額導致託管餘額的收益增加。

We hedge our servicing portfolio. So we do not record the full impact of the changes in fair value in the results of the operations. We believe this strategy protects against volatility of earnings and liquidity. Our strategy for hedging the servicing portfolio is dynamic and we adjust our hedge positions in reaction to changing interest rate environments.

我們對我們的服務組合進行對沖。因此，我們沒有在經營成果中記錄公允價值變動的全部影響。我們相信這項策略可以防止收益和流動性的波動。我們對沖服務組合的策略是動態的，我們會根據變化的利率環境調整避險部位。

Our total expenses for the third quarter of 2024 increased by $6 million or 2% from the prior year quarter. The primary drivers of the increase were higher commission, direct origination expenses, marketing and overtime, reflecting the increase in volume. Our third quarter expenses reflect a net benefit of $19 million, primarily associated with the expected insurance proceeds related to the settlement of class action litigation connected to the first quarter cybersecurity incident.

我們 2024 年第三季的總支出比去年同期增加了 600 萬美元，即 2%。成長的主要驅動因素是佣金、直接發起費用、行銷和加班費的增加，反映了業務量的增加。我們第三季的支出反映了 1,900 萬美元的淨收益，主要與與第一季網路安全事件相關的集體訴訟和解相關的預期保險收益有關。

Restructuring-related and impairment charges totaled $2 million, down slightly from the third quarter of 2023. Excluding the impact of the insurance benefit, restructuring and asset impairment charges, the increase in our expenses were primarily related to higher commissions, direct origination expenses, marketing and overtime related expenses to our increased volumes during the quarter as well as higher salary-related expenses, reflecting an increase in head count as we build capacity for expectations of higher volumes going forward offset somewhat by our ongoing productivity initiatives.

重組相關和減損費用總計 200 萬美元，較 2023 年第三季略有下降。排除保險福利、重組和資產減損費用的影響，我們費用的增加主要與本季度業務量增加導致的佣金、直接發起費用、營銷和加班相關費用增加以及與工資相關的費用增加有關，這反映了隨著我們為未來更高業務量的預期而進行產能建設，員工人數增加，但我們正在進行的生產力舉措在一定程度上抵消了這一影響。

Looking ahead to the fourth quarter, we expect pull-through weighted lock volume of between $5.5 billion and $7.5 billion and origination volume of between $6 billion and $8 billion. Volume guidance reflects the seasonal decrease in purchase activity and the impact of funding the higher volume loans locked during the third quarter that remains in our pipeline. We expect our fourth quarter pull-through weighted gain on sale margin to be between 285 and 305 basis points.

展望第四季度，我們預計拉動加權鎖定量將在 55 億美元至 75 億美元之間，發起量將在 60 億美元至 80 億美元之間。交易量指引反映了購買活動的季節性減少，以及為我們仍在規劃中的第三季鎖定的大量貸款提供資金的影響。我們預計第四季的加權銷售利潤率收益將在 285 至 305 個基點之間。

We also expect fourth quarter to be negatively impacted by lower servicing revenue related to the second quarter MSR sales as well as the absence of the onetime insurance benefit previously discussed and higher volume-related expenses from closings of loans locked during the third quarter.

我們還預計，第四季度將受到第二季 MSR 銷售相關的服務收入下降、先前討論過的一次性保險福利的缺失以及第三季度鎖定貸款結清產生的與數量相關的費用增加的負面影響。

Our cost reset focused on creating positive operating leverage and balance sheet management activities have significantly reduced our risk profile and charted the path towards profitability, while allowing us to maintain a strong liquidity position. We ended the quarter with $483 million in cash. Most notably, our third quarter results demonstrate that loanDepot can quickly accrue the benefits of a higher market volumes.

我們的成本重置專注於創造積極的經營槓桿和資產負債表管理活動，這大大降低了我們的風險狀況並規劃了盈利之路，同時使我們能夠保持強大的流動性狀況。本季結束時，我們的現金餘額為 4.83 億美元。最值得注意的是，我們的第三季業績表明，loanDepot 可以迅速獲得更高市場規模帶來的好處。

As we look towards 2025, we anticipate continued market challenges, but we believe the implementation of Project North Star will allow us to capture the benefit of higher market volumes, while we continue to capitalize on our ongoing investments and operational efficiency to achieve sustainable profitability in a wide variety of operating environments.

展望2025年，我們預計市場挑戰仍將持續，但我們相信北極星計畫的實施將使我們能夠獲得更大的市場容量帶來的好處，同時我們將繼續利用我們的持續投資和營運效率，在各種各樣的營運環境中實現可持續盈利。

With that, we're ready to turn it back to the operator for Q&A. Operator?

現在，我們準備將其交還給操作員進行問答。操作員？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

John Davis, Raymond James.

約翰戴維斯、雷蒙詹姆斯。

Hey guys, thanks for taking the question. This is Taylor on for JD. Maybe just to start with non-volume-related expenses and kind of hearing your expectations going forward. So you obviously had the benefit from the cyber insurance recovery this quarter. But excluding that, how should we think about the nonvolume expense base going forward? Just any additional plans to hire any additional investments? I just want to make sure we have our expectations properly set.

嘿夥計們，謝謝你們回答這個問題。這是 JD 的 Taylor。也許只是從與數量無關的費用開始，然後聽聽您對未來的期望。因此，您顯然從本季的網路保險復甦中受益。但除此以外，我們應該如何看待未來的非批量費用基礎？還有什麼額外計劃來僱用任何額外投資嗎？我只是想確保我們的期望得到正確的設定。

Yes. This is David Hayes. I think from that perspective, clearly, our volume-related expenses will fluctuate as originations fluctuate. We typically characterize those volume-related expenses as commissions and DOE, but I think you should also think about marketing expense, which is highly tied to volumes, especially in the direct channel. We've continued to be very productive or focused on productivity initiatives on the nonvolume related expenses, so we'd expect those to work some down over the course of remainder of this year and into next year.

是的。這是大衛·海耶斯。我認為從這個角度來看，顯然，隨著起源的波動，我們的數量相關費用也會波動。我們通常將與銷售相關的費用描述為佣金和 DOE，但我認為您還應該考慮行銷費用，它與銷售量密切相關，尤其是在直接管道中。我們繼續保持高效，或專注於非產量相關費用的生產力舉措，因此我們預計這些費用在今年剩餘時間和明年會有所下降。

But we are investing in revenue-generating initiatives, specifically staffing around our loan officers and our ops team members as well. So we're sort of building capacity up as we expect the eventual recovery of the mortgage market.

但我們正在投資創收計劃，特別是為我們的貸款人員和營運團隊成員配備人員。因此，我們正在加強產能，因為我們預計抵押貸款市場最終會復甦。

The other thing to consider as we go on a go-forward basis, we do see inflationary costs from vendor spend. We saw some of that come into effect in the '23 to '24 from some of our key vendors, and we would expect similar levels of activity going into '25. Those are yet to be determined though.

隨著我們向前發展，我們要考慮的另一件事是，我們確實看到了來自供應商支出的通膨成本。我們看到一些主要供應商的措施在23至24年間開始生效，我們預計25年也將出現類似程度的活動。但這些尚未確定。

Got it. Very helpful. And then just on Project North Star. I think I saw that one of the initiatives was to expand geographically and expand partnerships. So I was just curious if you could elaborate a bit more on that and what geographies are you looking to expand into? And on the partnership side, are you mostly focused on expanding current partnerships or adding new ones?

知道了。非常有幫助。接下來就是北極星計畫。我認為其中一項措施就是擴大地域範圍和擴大合作關係。所以我很好奇，您是否可以進一步詳細說明這一點，以及您希望擴展到哪些地區？在合作方面，您主要專注於擴大現有的合作夥伴關係還是增加新的合作關係？

Yeah. This is Jeff Walsh. Geographically, there's a lot of markets in this country where we have opportunity to fill in with our end market retail team, which we're doing organically. But we're also looking at expansion in our joint venture business with new builders, which we've recently done with Smith Douglas and exploring real estate JVs in the retail channel as well. So focus kind of in the South and Southeast and kind of the opportunistic markets now, but there are plenty of markets for us to expand to across the US.

是的。這是傑夫沃爾什。從地理位置上看，這個國家有很多市場，我們有機會透過我們的終端市場零售團隊來填補，而我們正在有機地進行這項工作。但我們也考慮與新的建築商擴大合資業務，最近我們與史密斯道格拉斯公司（Smith Douglas）就進行了合作，同時也在探索零售通路的房地產合資企業。因此，現在我們的重點是南部和東南部以及機會型市場，但在美國還有很多市場可供我們擴展。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Doug Harter, UBS.

瑞銀的道格·哈特（Doug Harter）。

Thanks. Hoping you could just to expand one of your closing comments. You said you would look to have sustainable profitability in '25 on under a range of scenarios. One, just kind of wanted to make sure that I heard that right. And if you could just expand on that comment a little bit.

謝謝。希望您能擴展您的結束語之一。您說過，您希望在 25 年及一系列情境下實現可持續獲利。第一，我只是想確認我聽得是否正確。如果您可以稍微擴展一下該評論的話。

Sure, Doug. This is Frank Martell. Thanks for joining the call. So look, I think as you look at the third quarter, as David said, the uptick in volume, which primarily benefited our direct channel was modest in volume, but it proved that kind of what revenue it would take to make money in the company and I think as we look forward to '25, the MBA forecast that currently sits that we get to that, and we're -- we feel pretty good about our chances of making money.

當然，道格。這是法蘭克馬爹利。感謝您加入通話。所以，我認為當你看第三季度時，正如大衛所說，銷量的上升主要使我們的直接管道受益，雖然銷量不大，但它證明了公司需要什麼樣的收入才能賺錢，我認為當我們展望25年時，目前的MBA預測我們會實現這一目標，我們對賺錢的機會感到非常樂觀。

It is a fluid situation. with rates and -- but I think that we believe fundamentally that there's pent-up volume. Certainly, home equity has been an area of a lot of upside for us. And we expect refi to lead the way actually in next year, and that's consistent with the forecast that MBA has put out.

這是一種不穩定的情況。利率和－但我認為，我們從根本上相信有被壓抑的交易量。當然，房屋淨值對我們來說是一個有很大上升空間的領域。我們預計再融資將在明年佔據主導地位，這與 MBA 發布的預測一致。

So we're hopeful that there's no disruption in the market that would not get forecast off. But if we're making [$2 trillion, $3 trillion] market, we'll -- we feel pretty good about our chances. And just to kind of swing around to what David said earlier, I think that we feel there's a lot of work been done on the fixed cost of the company and driving automation in the company. So if we do get volume, we expect to try to drive some operating leverage as well. So we're pretty well positioned for a two, three market as we sit right now, and we look forward to that playing out next year.

因此我們希望市場不會出現超出預測範圍的混亂。但如果我們能夠打造出 [2 兆美元、3 兆美元] 的市場，我們就會對我們的機會感到非常樂觀。為了回應大衛之前所說，我認為我們在公司固定成本和推動自動化方面已經做了很多工作。因此，如果我們確實獲得了銷量，我們也期望嘗試提高一些經營槓桿。因此，就目前而言，我們在二、三個市場中處於非常有利的位置，我們期待明年能夠取得這樣的成績。

Got it. And as part of Project North Star, you talked about growing the servicing portfolio. Would that be through more retention of it? And kind of how do you think about the financing of those MSRs/cash consumption of retaining more MSRs?

知道了。作為北極星計畫的一部分，您談到了擴大服務組合。這是否是透過更多地保留它來實現的？您如何看待這些 MSR 的融資/保留更多 MSR 的現金消耗？

Hey Doug, this is Jeff DerGurahian. The growth of the portfolio, I think, is going to come as the market opportunity presents itself, to the extent that we can continue on this path that we've been on and add to the portfolio organically. We'll do that. We'll also opportunistically look at opportunities to acquire MSRs is something attractive is there. I think we'll figure that out over the next several quarters where the best place to attack that growth is. And in terms of financing it, the lines that we have to finance that are out there, and we'll lever the assets to the extent that we need the cash to grow the origination business and continue to take profitable share.

嘿 Doug，我是 Jeff DerGurahian。我認為，隨著市場機會的出現，投資組合將會成長，只要我們能夠繼續沿著這條道路前進，並有機地增加投資組合。我們會這麼做。我們也將擇機尋找收購 MSR 的機會，看看是否有有吸引力的東西。我認為我們將在接下來的幾個季度內找到實現這一增長的最佳地點。在融資方面，我們必須提供融資管道，我們將充分利用資產，以便獲得所需的現金來發展發起業務並繼續佔據獲利份額。

Okay. Thank.

好的。感謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Derek Sommers, Jeffries.

德瑞克‧薩默斯、傑弗里斯。

Hi, good afternoon everyone. I was just wondering if you could touch on kind of the recruiting environment, what kind of traffic you're seeing there?

大家下午好。我只是想知道您是否可以談談招募環境，您在那裡看到了什麼樣的流量？

Yeah. Thanks. This is Jeff again. We're -- Jeff Walsh. We're seeing positive traction in organic recruitment of loan originators, both in in-market retail and direct lending. It's still a competitive market, where we see offers, multiple offers made to higher end, high-producing loan originators. So is still competitive, but I think we're doing a really good job in winning a lot of really great people over the last quarter, and we're kind of continuing that strategy moving forward of organic growth.

是的。謝謝。我又是傑夫。我們是－傑夫沃爾什。我們看到，無論是在市場零售貸款還是直接貸款中，貸款發起人的有機招募都呈現積極的勢頭。這仍然是一個競爭激烈的市場，我們看到了針對高端、高收益貸款發起人的多個報價。因此，我們仍然具有競爭力，但我認為，我們上個季度在贏得許多優秀人才方面做得非常好，而且我們將繼續實施這項策略，實現有機成長。

Got it. And then just on the kind of Smith Douglas partnership and maybe the builder JVs as a whole. Any kind of incremental color there would be helpful. Or these partnerships serve through the direct channel, kind of how does the expense base kind of compare to a kind of in-market origination? Or just anything incremental would be helpful.

知道了。然後只是討論史密斯道格拉斯合作夥伴關係以及可能的整體建築合資企業。任何種類的增量顏色都會有幫助。或者這些合作關係透過直接管道提供服務，其費用基礎與市場內發起的費用基礎相比如何？或任何增量的東西都會有幫助。

Yeah. Our joint venture business is its own channel. It's run separately. We're really excited about this new venture with Smith Douglas, they are great group over there with a really compelling growth story. And the business model is different than in market retail as they are typically set up as kind of a broker JV model or a banker JV model where we're obviously sharing in the profitability of the entity.

是的。我們的合資業務是自有通路。它是單獨運行的。我們對與史密斯道格拉斯公司的這次新合作感到非常興奮，他們是一家很棒的集團，有著非常引人注目的成長故事。這種商業模式與市場零售不同，因為它們通常採用經紀人合資模式或銀行家合資模式，我們顯然會分享實體的獲利能力。

But it is a very, very positive business for us because it's predictable. And obviously, new build has been a really bright spot in the market over the last couple of years versus what we're seeing in resale. So we really like that business and would like to do as much of it as we can.

但這對我們來說是一項非常非常積極的業務，因為它是可預測的。顯然，與轉售情況相比，過去幾年新建房屋一直是市場的一個真正亮點。所以我們真的很喜歡這項業務，並且願意盡可能地開展這項業務。

At this time, there are no further questions. I will now hand today's call back over to Frank Martell for any closing remarks.

目前，沒有其他問題。現在，我將今天的電話轉交給弗蘭克‧馬爹利 (Frank Martell)，請他作最後發言。

Thanks, Tamika. Look, on behalf of Dave, Gerhard, Jeff Walsh, and Jeff DerGurahian and the rest of our team, I really want to thank everybody for your -- for joining us for the call today.

謝謝，塔米卡。我謹代表戴夫、格哈德、傑夫沃爾什、傑夫德古拉希安和我們團隊的其他成員，感謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。

It's exciting times at loanDepot, I'm really proud of the dedication and resiliency and accomplishments of the team here. Completing Vision 2025 represents a very significant accomplishment for the company. And importantly, we look forward with optimism regarding market leadership and taking share in the market as we focus on realizing the potential the full potential of Project North Star in the coming three years. At loanDepot we have a saying, we believe that home means everything, and our growing team of professionals delivers a complete suite of services that we think will fuel the American dream as we go forward. So thanks again, everybody, and I appreciate your time.

這是 loanDepot 激動人心的時刻，我為這裡團隊的奉獻精神、韌性和成就感到無比自豪。完成「2025願景」對公司來說是一項非常重大的成就。重要的是，我們對市場領導地位和市場份額持樂觀態度，因為我們專注於在未來三年內充分發揮北極星計畫的潛力。在 loanDepot 我們有一句話，我們相信家意味著一切，我們不斷壯大的專業團隊提供全套服務，我們認為這些服務將在我們前進的過程中推動美國夢的實現。所以，再次感謝大家，我很感謝你們抽出時間。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的加入。現在您可以斷開線路了。