Liberty Global Ltd (LBTYK) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Liberty Global's second quarter 2024 investor call. This call and the associated webcast are the property of Liberty Global and any redistribution, retransmission, or rebroadcast of this call or webcast in any form without the express written consent of Liberty Global is strictly prohibited. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，早安，謝謝大家的支持。歡迎參加 Liberty Global 2024 年第二季投資者電話會議。本次電話會議及相關網路廣播歸 Liberty Global 所有，未經 Liberty Global 明確書面同意，嚴禁以任何形式重新分發、重新傳播或重新廣播本次電話會議或網路廣播。（操作員指令）

Today's formal presentation materials can be found under the Investor Relations section of Liberty Global's website at libertyglobal.com. After today's formal presentation, instructions will be given for a question-and-answer session. Page 2 of the slides details the company's Safe Harbor statement regarding forward-looking statements.

今天的正式簡報資料可以在 Liberty Global 網站 libertyglobal.com 的投資者關係部分找到。今天的正式演講結束後，將給予問答環節的說明。投影片的第 2 頁詳細介紹了公司關於前瞻性陳述的安全港聲明。

Today's presentation may include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, including the company's expectations with respect to its outlook and future growth prospects and other information and statements that are not historical fact.

今天的演示可能包含《1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法》所定義的前瞻性陳述，包括公司對其前景和未來成長前景的預期以及其他非歷史事實的資訊和陳述。

These forward-looking statements involve certain risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by these statements. These risks include those detailed in Liberty Global's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including its most recently filed Forms 10-Q and 10-K as amended.

這些前瞻性陳述涉及某些風險，可能導致實際結果與這些陳述表達或暗示的結果有重大差異。這些風險包括 Liberty Global 向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中詳述的風險，包括其最近提交的經修訂的 10-Q 表和 10-K 表。

Liberty Global disclaims any obligation to update any of these forward-looking statements to reflect any change in its expectations or in the conditions on which any such statement is based. I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Mike Fries.

Liberty Global 不承擔更新任何這些前瞻性陳述以反映其預期或此類陳述所依據的條件的任何變更的義務。現在我想將電話轉給麥克·弗里斯先生。

Okay. Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining the call today. We've got a lot of ground to cover, so I'm going to jump right into prepared remarks. My senior team is also on the line as usual. So I'll be involving them in the Q&A when we get there. So I'm starting on our Q2 highlights slide.

好的。大家好。感謝您今天的電話會議。我們還有很多內容要講，因此我將直接開始準備好的發言。我的高級團隊也像往常一樣在線上。所以當我們到達那裡時我會讓他們參與問答環節。所以我從我們第二季的亮點幻燈片開始。

On our year-end call in February, you'll all remember that we laid out what I think is a clear strategic plan which included three core elements, first of all, maximizing the intrinsic value of our FMC operations, that's critical; second, using the Ventures portfolio to create liquidity to support those operations and to invest in strategic platforms; and then most importantly, putting all that together to both create and deliver value to you, shareholders.

大家應該還記得，在我們二月份的年終電話會議上，我們制定了一個我認為很清晰的戰略計劃，其中包括三個核心要素，首先，最大化我們的 FMC 運營的內在價值，這是至關重要的；第二，利用創投投資組合創造流動性來支持這些業務並投資於策略平台；然後最重要的是，將所有這些結合起來為股東創造和提供價值。

At the top of this slide, we provide an update on each of these core initiatives beginning with Switzerland, where the Sunrise spin which we have talked quite a bit about, is on track for the fourth quarter of this year. The purpose here is to hand shareholders a significant and well-deserved dividend of what analysts are estimating is around $12 per Liberty Global share.

在這張投影片的頂部，我們提供了每個核心舉措的最新情況，首先是瑞士，我們已經多次討論過的 Sunrise 旋轉計劃將在今年第四季順利實施。其目的是向股東提供可觀且當之無愧的股息，分析師估計每股 Liberty Global 股票的股息約為 12 美元。

As a reminder, Sunrise represents only about 20% of our proportionate EBITDA and that excludes, of course, the value that might be attributed to cash and Ventures in our stock price. Now those Sunrise valuations of $12 of Liberty Global share are supported by CHF1.5 billion of deleveraging that we will fund pre-spin and it's supported by a commitment for Sunrise to pay an annual dividend of CHF240 million beginning next year in 2025. So those two things are anchoring at $12 per share. Now we scheduled the Sunrise Capital Markets Day.

提醒一下，Sunrise 僅占我們比例 EBITDA 的 20% 左右，當然，這不包括可能歸因於我們股價中的現金和風險投資的價值。現在，Sunrise 對 Liberty Global 股票 12 美元的估值得到了我們在分拆前提供的 15 億瑞士法郎的去槓桿的支持，並且 Sunrise 承諾從明年（2025 年）開始每年支付 2.4 億瑞士法郎的股息。因此，這兩件事的價格固定在每股 12 美元。現在我們安排了日出資本市場日。

I'm sure you saw that for September 9 in Zurich. Of course, there's going to be a live webcast and replays and management is going to hit the road right after that. So hopefully, you'll have a chance to connect with André and his team. They are an outstanding group. I'm sure you'll see that immediately.

我確信您在 9 月 9 日於蘇黎世看到了它。當然，將會有現場網路直播和重播，之後管理層就會上路。所以希望您有機會與 André 和他的團隊建立聯繫。他們是一群傑出的群體。我確信您馬上就會看到這一點。

You also should stay tuned for more deals on the spin mechanics and logistics as we finalize the SEC process and start working towards the shareholder meeting in the fall. So a lot of communication will be heavily engaged in making sure we understand everything that's happening there.

隨著我們完成美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 流程並開始為秋季的股東大會做準備，您還應該繼續關注更多有關旋轉機制和物流的交易。因此，我們將進行大量溝通，以確保我們了解那裡發生的一切。

Now we have got three key strategic updates in the UK as well along the same strategic path. Earlier this month, we announced a fairly comprehensive agreement with Vodafone in the UK, which strengthens and extends our mobile network sharing agreement which we've had for some time and that's going to occur whether or not the merger with three goes through.

現在，我們在英國也沿著同樣的戰略路徑進行了三個關鍵的策略更新。本月初，我們宣布與英國沃達豐達成一項相當全面的協議，該協議加強並擴展了我們已經有一段時間的行動網路共享協議，無論與三家公司的合併是否成功，該協議都會發生。

And it includes the right for VMO2 to purchase spectrum, should the deal be approved. And both of these address some of the concerns raised by the CMA, including rebalancing spectrum among operators but in either case, are highly accretive to VMO2. Then on the fixed network front in the UK, we've now reached 5 million fiber homes across VMO2 and nexfibre and that build-out and upgrade is ramping up and accelerating.

如果該交易獲得批准，VMO2 將有權購買頻譜。這兩項措施都解決了 CMA 提出的一些擔憂，包括重新平衡營運商之間的頻譜，但無論哪種情況，都對 VMO2 具有很大的增值作用。然後在英國的固定網路方面，我們現在已經透過 VMO2 和 nexfibre 覆蓋了 500 萬光纖家庭，並且建造和升級正在加快和加速。

Also, our announced plans to create a UK NetCo are on track for the first half of 2025 with financing discussions probably commencing really Q4 this year and I'll give you a bit more on the developments in a moment.

此外，我們宣布的創建英國 NetCo 的計劃正在按計劃於 2025 年上半年實施，融資談判可能會在今年第四季開始，稍後我會向您介紹更多進展。

Moving to the Benelux, where we are also making meaningful strategic progress at the country level in Belgium and Holland and that progress is going to support our ambition to create a general operating platform with scale, with synergies, and with strategic optionality.

轉向比荷盧三國，我們在比利時和荷蘭的國家層級也取得了有意義的戰略進展，這些進展將支持我們創建具有規模、協同效應和戰略選擇性的通用營運平台的雄心壯志。

So for example, in Belgium, we announced a preliminary agreement or MOU with Proximus to avoid overbuilding each other with fiber in about 2 million homes. And just as importantly, for each of us to use the other's network in those areas, so we can maximize utilization.

例如在比利時，我們與 Proximus 達成了一項初步協議或諒解備忘錄，以避免在約 200 萬戶家庭中過度建造光纖。同樣重要的是，我們每個人都可以在這些區域使用彼此的網絡，這樣我們就可以最大限度地利用。

In the Netherlands, the 5G spectrum auction finally occurred and we were able to recently acquire 100 megahertz of 3.5 gig spectrum well below the expected price we thought we'd pay. And then sticking with Holland, we could not be happier of the hiring of Stephen van Rooyen, who will become CEO of VodafoneZiggo in September.

在荷蘭，5G 頻譜拍賣終於舉行，我們最近以遠低於我們預期的價格獲得了 100 兆赫的 3.5 千兆頻譜。然後繼續說說霍蘭德，我們對史蒂芬·範羅伊恩 (Stephen van Rooyen) 的聘用感到非常高興，他將於 9 月成為 VodafoneZiggo 的首席執行官。

I've known Stephen a very long time and this is not the first time I've tried to hire him by the way. Both we and Vodafone recognize right away his deep expertise and brand and production and innovation that he's developed over 17 years at Sky. And we're convinced he's going to bring the right energy, operational focus, and strategic direction to this critical market.

我認識史蒂芬很久了，順便說一句，這不是我第一次試圖僱用他。我們和沃達豐都立即認可了他在天空電視台 17 年多時間裡積累的深厚專業知識以及品牌、產品和創新。我們堅信他將為這個關鍵市場帶來正確的活力、營運重點和策略方向。

And then finally, as I just mentioned, we're using our Ventures platform to provide a source of capital that we can rotate into other strategic opportunities and also as an investment vehicle for innovation and new skill-based businesses that align with our core value creation goals.

最後，正如我剛才提到的，我們正在使用我們的 Ventures 平台來提供資金來源，我們可以將其輪換到其他戰略機會中，也可以將其作為符合我們核心價值創造目標的創新和新技能型業務的投資工具。

Now we're delivering on that first objective. With $650 million of asset sales in the last six months. A large portion of which will support deleveraging of Sunrise pre-spin and we remain focused on larger platform opportunities, as you can tell by our plans to increase our stake in Formula E and our increasing commitment to digital infrastructure and I'll talk about those in a moment.

現在我們正在實現第一個目標。過去六個月的資產銷售額達 6.5 億美元。其中很大一部分將支持 Sunrise 預旋轉的去槓桿化，我們仍然專注於更大的平台機會，正如你從我們增加在 Formula E 中的股份的計劃和我們對數位基礎設施的不斷增加的承諾中看到的那樣，我稍後會談論這些。

And moving from those strategic initiatives at the top of that page to our regular Q2 highlights, I'll start with our balance sheet and capital allocation model, which are in great shape as we point out on every call, our debt profile is long term. Fixed rate and siloed with no debt at the parent company and no material maturities until 2028.

從該頁面頂部的策略舉措轉到我們常規的第二季度重點內容，我將首先介紹我們的資產負債表和資本配置模型，正如我們在每次電話會議中指出的那樣，這些模型狀況良好，我們的債務狀況是長期的。固定利率，母公司無債務，2028 年之前無重大到期債務。

We're also sitting on a cash balance equal to roughly half our market cap. And by the way, we continue to shrink that market cap through an aggressive buyback program which saw us repurchase 5% of our shares year to date towards a planned 10% of shares through year-end.

我們的現金餘額也相當於我們市值的一半左右。順便說一句，我們透過積極的回購計畫繼續縮減市值，今年迄今我們已回購了 5% 的股份，並計劃到年底回購 10% 的股份。

We also continue to both invest in growth and execute at the core FMC operating level and that includes powering through headwinds. We talk about this as do our peers. Every quarter, we are facing an increasingly competitive marketplace with consumers who continue to feel the stress of inflation and macro challenges.

我們也將繼續在核心 FMC 營運層面進行成長投資和執行，其中包括克服逆風。我們和同行們都談論這個問題。每個季度，我們都面臨著競爭日益激烈的市場，消費者繼續感受到通膨和宏觀挑戰的壓力。

You'll see in a moment, while our fixed ARPUs are rising or stable and that's great news, we're feeling pressure in the mobile sector from promotions and from flanker brands. And despite that, we are confirming all of our 18 different guidance metrics, that's right, 18 different guidance metrics we provided with the exception of one which is revenue growth at VMO2.

您馬上就會看到，雖然我們的固定 ARPU 正在上升或保持穩定，這是好消息，但我們在行動領域感受到了來自促銷和側翼品牌的壓力。儘管如此，我們仍在確認所有 18 種不同的指導指標，沒錯，我們提供了 18 種不同的指導指標，但 VMO2 的收入成長除外。

We are lowering that as a result of slower hardware sales in the mobile business. Now these are low-margin revenue sales at best. So we're still going to hit our EBITDA and free cash flow guidance in the UK. That's important.

由於行動業務硬體銷售放緩，我們降低了這一數字。現在，這些充其量只是低利潤的收入銷售。因此，我們仍將在英國實現 EBITDA 和自由現金流指引。這很重要。

In this slide I'm emphasizing that we are also seeing some tailwinds, in particular, as we begin to reap the benefits of four things, number one, our investments in fiber and 5G which remains substantial; number two, the growth in our flanker brands; and number three, our access to new revenue streams and new homes generated by our fixed network strategies; and then lastly, the hidden value of our digital infrastructure assets.

在這張投影片中，我想強調的是，我們也看到了一些順風，特別是當我們開始獲得四個方面的好處時，第一，我們在光纖和 5G 方面的投資仍然很大；第二，我們的側翼品牌的成長；第三，我們可以透過固定網路策略獲得新的收入來源和新的住宅；最後，我們的數位基礎設施資產的隱藏價值。

I'm going to touch on all of these, but the punch is that we feel we have a pretty good operating and strategic toolbox here to help us work through this transition and ultimately deliver that value to shareholders we've been talking about.

我將談到所有這些，但重點是，我們覺得我們擁有相當不錯的營運和策略工具箱，可以幫助我們完成這一轉變，並最終為我們一直在談論的股東帶來價值。

So moving to operating highlights. So we provide our traditional KPIs on this slide, the big FMC OpCo's. I'm going to move clockwise from top to left. Starting at the top left, you'll see that Sunrise had a really strong quarter, leading into the spin which is always good.

接下來是營運亮點。因此，我們在這張投影片上提供了傳統的 KPI，即大型 FMC OpCo。我將從上到左順時針移動。從左上角開始，你會看到 Sunrise 本季表現非常強勁，引領著旋轉，這總是一件好事。

Broadband and postpaid mobile adds were 38,000. That's nearly double the prior year and up around 20% sequentially. This is also the third straight quarter of broadband growth improvement in Switzerland driven by reduced churn on the main brand and continued strong inflow.

寬頻及後付費行動用戶增加38,000戶。這幾乎是上年的兩倍，比上一季成長了約 20%。這也是瑞士寬頻成長連續第三個季度改善，這得益於主品牌客戶流失減少和持續強勁的流入。

We're also benefiting from progress on the migration of the UPC base which we've talked out for four or five quarters now. And that should be largely completed by year-end. Those factors, along with the price rise last summer have helped deliver four straight quarters of fixed ARPU improvement.

我們也受惠於 UPC 基礎遷移的進展，我們已經討論了四、五個季度了。這項工作應在年底前基本完成。這些因素加上去年夏季的價格上漲已有助於實現連續四個季度的固定 ARPU 改善。

Sunrise also delivered another strong quarter of mobile postpaid growth, supported by improved churn and our flanker brand, Yallo. The market continues to be highly competitive and this is a theme everywhere with budget brands, heavily discounting and that's adding pressure to mobile ARPUs.

由於客戶流失率的改善和我們的側翼品牌 Yallo 的支持，Sunrise 還實現了移動後付費業務又一個強勁增長的季度。市場競爭依然激烈，廉價品牌、大幅折扣隨處可見，這給行動 ARPU 增加了壓力。

Moving to Belgium. Telenet's results were largely consistent with prior quarters and up from Q2 and Q3 last year when the company was managing through IT challenges. We lost around 5,000 broadband and postpaid mobile subs in the quarter in a very competitive Flemish market, with intense promotions, by the way, ahead of this anticipated mobile launch from DIGI.

搬到比利時。Telenet 的業績與前幾季基本一致，且比去年第二季和第三季有所上升，當時該公司正在應對 IT 挑戰。順便說一句，在競爭非常激烈的佛蘭芒市場，由於 DIGI 在即將推出這款行動產品之前進行了大量的促銷活動，我們在本季度損失了約 5,000 名寬頻和後付費行動用戶。

To combat that, we are executing a multi-brand strategy, as you know. Most importantly, though, we now have a nationwide FMC flanker brand that's available not only in the Flanders, but also in the South of Belgium, where we've just launched and are targeting a modest 10% market share.

如您所知，為了解決這個問題，我們正在實施多品牌策略。但最重要的是，我們現在擁有一個全國性的 FMC 側翼品牌，不僅在佛蘭德斯有售，而且在比利時南部也有售，我們剛剛在該地區推出，目標是佔據 10% 的市場份額。

Everything is off to a good start there. And then finally, fixed ARPUs at Telenet continue to grow mid-single digit. That was helped by the price rise last year with this year's price rise of 3.5%, taking effect early June and also landing well.

一切開始都很好。最後，Telenet 的固定 ARPU 繼續以中位數個位數成長。這得益於去年的價格上漲，今年的價格上漲了 3.5%，於 6 月初生效，並且效果良好。

And then I'm moving to VodafoneZiggo. While it was a challenging quarter in the Netherlands operationally, the financial results were outstanding. Charlie will cover those numbers. VodafoneZiggo delivered a steady quarter on broadband with slightly improved losses of [23,000] in a highly competitive market.

然後我要前往 VodafoneZiggo。雖然該季度對荷蘭而言在營運​​方面充滿挑戰，但財務表現卻十分出色。查理將負責這些數字。VodafoneZiggo 在寬頻業務上本季表現穩定，在競爭激烈的市場中，虧損略有改善，為 [23,000]。

The good news is that churn is declining on the back of extensive programs that provide more value to customers including speed increases or entertainment, customer experience improvements, fixed ARPU continues to grow in the mid-single-digit range in Holland, supported by the retention of last year's 8.5% price increase. And after steady gains, postpaid mobile subs turned negative in the quarter, but that was driven primarily by the loss of low-ARPU B2B contracts with local government.

好消息是，由於大量計劃為客戶提供了更多價值，包括提高速度或娛樂、改善客戶體驗，客戶流失率正在下降，在保持去年 8.5% 的價格漲幅的支持下，荷蘭的固定 ARPU 繼續以中等個位數增長。在穩定成長之後，後付費行動用戶在本季度轉為負值，但這主要是由於失去與地方政府的低 ARPU B2B 合約。

Similar to fixed postpaid, mobile ARPU was up mid-single digit, supported by the price rise last October. And looking forward, Ziggo implemented a 2.5% fixed price rise in July which is landing well. And it is also supported by our exclusive UEFA broadcasting rights, a strong FMC proposition, and I think importantly, our successful loyalty program called Priority.

與固定後付費類似，受去年 10 月價格上漲的推動，行動 ARPU 也上漲了個位數中段。展望未來，Ziggo 在 7 月實施了 2.5% 的固定價格上漲，效果良好。它還得到了我們獨家的歐足總廣播權、強大的 FMC 主張以及我認為最重要的是我們成功的忠誠度計劃 Priority 的支持。

And then finally, in the UK, despite a tough trading environment, Virgin Media O2 delivered its fourth straight quarter of improved fixed ARPU results with 3% year-over-year growth in the second quarter, reflecting our focus on value over volume and the retention of price rise benefits.

最後，在英國，儘管貿易環境嚴峻，但 Virgin Media O2 連續第四個季度實現固定 ARPU 增長，第二季度同比增長 3%，這反映出我們注重價值而非數量，並保留了價格上漲帶來的好處。

We continue to take a higher share of gross adds in the broadband market as broadband growth in the nexfibre footprint continues to be steadily and is expected to ramp in the second half. However, as with any price rise quarter, we have seen a moderate increase in churn with overall broadband losses of [12,000], broadly in line with the prior year.

由於 nexfibre 覆蓋範圍內的寬頻成長持續穩定且預計下半年將會加速，我們將繼續在寬頻市場中佔據更高的新增用戶份額。然而，與任何價格上漲的季度一樣，我們看到客戶流失率適度增加，整體寬頻損失為 [12,000]，與去年大致持平。

The postpaid mobile market in UK continues to be soft. You're hearing that, I think, from all of the operators, especially at the premium end, with weakness in the handset market continuing. Now while O2 churn remained stable, Lutz and the team are implementing a series of measures to rebuild postpaid mobile momentum in the second half.

英國後付費行動市場持續疲軟。我想，所有營運商，特別是高階營運商，都已經表示，手機市場持續疲軟。目前，O2 的客戶流失率保持穩定，Lutz 和他的團隊正在實施一系列措施，以在下半年重建後付費行動業務的發展勢頭。

That includes proactive campaigns to drive retention, strong offers around new hardware launches from Samsung and Google and iPhone later this year, renewed energy in our FMC packages and better performance in the indirect channel. So 2024 is a transition year, as we've said in the last few quarters here and we are focused, the team is focused on preparing VMO2 for a strong 2025. Again, each of the OpCo leaders is on the call, so we can dig into any of these markets during Q&A.

其中包括積極主動的活動來提高保留率，今年稍後三星和谷歌以及 iPhone 新硬體的發布會上推出的強力優惠，我們 FMC 套餐的新活力以及間接渠道的更好表現。因此，正如我們在過去幾個季度所說的那樣，2024 年是一個過渡年，我們專注於為 VMO2 做好強勁的 2025 年的準備。再次強調，每位 OpCo 領導人都會參加電話會議，因此我們可以在問答環節深入了解這些市場中的任何一個。

Now I move to the next slide. We've talked a lot about our fixed network strategies, in particular, our fiber build plans. And then more recently, our efforts to de-layer certain of our businesses by separating out our fiber and HFC networks from the service platforms.

現在我轉到下一張投影片。我們已經討論了很多關於我們的固定網路策略，特別是我們的光纖建設計劃。最近，我們努力將光纖和 HFC 網路與服務平台分離，從而實現某些業務的分層。

Now we've already achieved this in Belgium and we talked about it with the formation of wire which together with our partner, Fluvius, now owns and controls the Telenet HFC network passing 4 million homes plus or minus, with a commitment to deliver fiber to 80% of those homes over time.

現在，我們已經在比利時實現了這一目標，並與 Wi-Fi 的組建進行了討論，該公司與合作夥伴 Fluvius 共同擁有並控制著覆蓋 400 萬左右家庭的 Telenet HFC 網絡，並承諾隨著時間的推移將光纖覆蓋其中 80％ 的家庭。

Wire is already wholesaling its fixed network to Telenet and Orange Belgium across vendors and representing about 50%-plus utilization of the network. And they also recently announced you might have seen an MOU with Proximus to share the fiber build-out in around 2 million homes and to whole buy access from each other which would bring utilization of the wire network in those areas to over 80%, it's among the highest in the world.

Wire 已透過各個供應商將其固定網路批發給 Telenet 和 Orange Belgium，網路利用率已達到約 50% 以上。他們最近還宣布與 Proximus 簽署了一份諒解備忘錄，將在約 200 萬戶家庭中共享光纖建設，並相互購買接入權，這將使這些地區的有線電視網絡利用率達到 80% 以上，位居世界最高水平。

Similarly, we've announced our intention to create a NetCo-like wire from our 16 million fixed network passings in the UK, 3.8 million of which have already been upgraded to fiber. Together with our JV which we call nexfibre, VMO2 will ultimately have access to between 21 million and 22 million fiber homes in the UK and that's about 80% of the urban market. And the combined network would be available to third parties, potentially driving even higher utilization and newfound wholesale revenue.

同樣，我們已經宣布計劃利用英國的 1,600 萬個固定網路用戶打造類似 NetCo 的線路，其中 380 萬個已經升級為光纖。與我們名為 nexfibre 的合資公司一起，VMO2 最終將能夠覆蓋英國 2,100 萬至 2,200 萬戶光纖家庭，約佔城市市場的 80%。合併後的網路可供第三方使用，從而有可能進一步提高利用率並帶來新的批發收入。

So why are we doing all this? What is the rationale for what appears to be from the outside of relatively complicated restructuring of our operations into NetCos and ServCos in these two markets? I think the answer is pretty straightforward, actually.

那我們為什麼要這麼做呢？將我們在這兩個市場的業務重組為 NetCos 和服務公司（ServCos），從外部來看似乎比較複雜，其理由是什麼？我認為答案實際上非常簡單。

On the NetCo front, once the physical infrastructure is isolated in these platforms, they can generate stable and high-margin cash flow driven primarily by the fixed monthly wholesale payment they receive from retailers for utilization of that network.

在 NetCo 方面，一旦這些平台中的實體基礎設施被隔離，它們就可以產生穩定且高利潤的現金流，這主要由他們從零售商收到的使用該網路的固定每月批發付款所驅動。

As the utilization rate climbs, the cash flows improve, driving long-term returns to financial and strategic investors. These platforms also allow us to attract new capital which helps accelerate our network upgrade and extension plans and they can facilitate in-market consolidation of both network and operating platforms.

隨著利用率的上升，現金流得到改善，從而為金融和策略投資者帶來長期回報。這些平台還使我們能夠吸引新的資本，從而有助於加速我們的網路升級和擴展計劃，並促進網路和營運平台的市場整合。

The remaining ServCo can also benefit from the separation which we end up with is an asset-light, typically a digital-first business model that prioritizes customer experience in order to differentiate from other retailers. There's more focus inevitably on innovation to drive new revenue streams as well as the opportunity for end-market consolidation of other B2B and B2C service providers.

剩下的 ServCo 也可以從分離中受益，最終我們將獲得輕資產、通常為數位優先的商業模式，該模式優先考慮客戶體驗，以區別於其他零售商。人們不可避免地會更加關注創新，以推動新的收入來源，同時也為其他 B2B 和 B2C 服務供應商提供終端市場整合的機會。

On the far right-hand side of the slide demonstrates the hidden value in our network assets. What we show here are nine recent fiber transactions that have been concluded in Europe where the median EBITDA multiple in those deals was about 18 times.

投影片最右邊展示了我們網路資產的隱藏價值。我們在此展示的是最近在歐洲完成的九筆光纖交易，這些交易的 EBITDA 倍數中位數約為 18 倍。

Of course, there's a wide variance of valuations which reflect things like the CapEx profile, the amount of overbuild in the market, forecast utilization rates, and what the wholesale revenue opportunity is. But we pair that to integrated telco multiples of mid-single digit where most of us are trading, this is obviously a significant premium.

當然，估值存在很大差異，這反映了資本支出狀況、市場過度建設量、預測利用率以及批發收入機會等因素。但是，我們將其與我們大多數人交易的中等個位數的綜合電信倍數配對，這顯然是一個顯著的溢價。

Now these are not easy transformations. The execution risk can be high but we're focused and we have focused our resources on the two markets where this will most easily be achieved. And I think where the dynamics will generate the most significant value creation for shareholders. So stay tuned.

這些都不是容易的轉變。執行風險可能很高，但我們會集中精力，將資源集中在最容易實現這一目標的兩個市場。我認為這種動態將為股東創造最重要的價值。敬請關注。

Now before handing it over to Charlie, I'm just going to spend a moment on some development in our $3 billion Ventures platform. To begin with, in October last year, we cited the $500 million to $1 billion of non-core asset sales before mid-2024.

現在，在將其交給查理之前，我想花一點時間討論我們價值 30 億美元的 Ventures 平台的一些發展。首先，去年 10 月，我們提到將在 2024 年中期之前出售 5 億至 10 億美元的非核心資產。

Good news, we've achieved that goal with over $650 million of proceeds through Q2 and we're targeting another $100 million to $150 million before year-end. This is consistent with our strategy of rotating capital as I said, out of Ventures and other non-core holdings and into higher growth or higher return opportunities. Obviously, the sale of All3Media and the use of that $400 million to deleverage Sunrise pre-spin is an excellent example of that.

好消息是，我們已經實現了這一目標，第二季的收益超過 6.5 億美元，我們的目標是在年底前再獲得 1 億至 1.5 億美元的收益。這與我所說的資本輪換策略是一致的，即將創投和其他非核心資產轉移到更高成長或更高回報的機會。顯然，出售 All3Media 以及使用 4 億美元對 Sunrise 進行預剝離就是一個很好的例子。

We also remain focused on building larger positions in scale businesses like AtlasEdge in the digital infrastructure space where our portfolio now totals $1 billion. And Formula E, where we just announced our intention to increase our stake from 38% to 65% and what we believe is a very attractive valuation. Now interestingly, I haven't talked a lot about Formula E.

我們也將繼續專注於在數位基礎設施領域的 AtlasEdge 等規模企業中建立更大的地位，我們的投資組合目前總額已達 10 億美元。至於電動方程式賽車，我們剛剛宣布將持有股份從 38% 增加到 65%，我們認為這是一個非常有吸引力的估值。有趣的是，我還沒有談論太多關於電動方程式賽車的事情。

So on the right-hand side here, we provided a short update of this platform. After just 10 seasons, this is one of the fastest-growing motor sports in the world with over 400 million global fans, races that span four continents and revenue growth of nearly 20%.

因此，在右側，我們提供了該平台的簡短更新。光是10個賽季，這項賽事就成為全球發展最快的賽車運動之一，全球車迷超過4億，比賽遍及四大洲，營收成長近20%。

As a reminder, we have an exclusive license with the FIA for electric racing that runs another 15 years. And we're riding the tailwinds, obviously, riding the tailwinds of vehicle electrification with the support of car brands like Porsche, Jaguar, Maclaren, Maserati, and Nissan, who are also committed to that.

提醒一下，我們與國際汽聯簽訂了電動賽車的獨家許可，有效期為 15 年。顯然，我們正在乘著汽車電氣化的順風，並得到了保時捷、捷豹、麥克拉倫、瑪莎拉蒂和日產等汽車品牌的支持，他們也致力於此。

Next season, the Gen3 EVO car will be 30% faster than an F1 car at the 0 to 60-mile per hour range with massive headroom on speed and performance moving forward. And the format of this racing is extremely exciting with nearly twice as many competitive overtakes per race as F1 and every champion pretty much so far being decided on the final weekend of the season.

下個賽季，Gen3 EVO 賽車在 0 到 60 英里每小時的速度範圍內將比 F1 賽車快 30%，並且在速度和性能方面還有巨大的提升空間。這項賽事的賽制極為精彩，每場比賽的超車次數幾乎是 F1 的兩倍，而且到目前為止，幾乎所有冠軍都是在賽季的最後一個週末決出的。

Also important to note, Formula E has been Net Zero since day zero, which is another major selling point for sponsors and for fans. We definitely have work to do, particularly on the monetization of media rights globally.

同樣值得注意的是，電動方程式賽車從第一天起就實現了淨零排放，這對贊助商和車迷來說也是另一個主要賣點。我們確實還有很多工作要做，特別是在全球媒體版權貨幣化方面。

Another thing, this is work in progress after 10 seasons only. I think it took Formula 1 75 years to get to where it is. And we're going to continually refine the racing series, along with the FIA and with iconic racing partners like Andrétti and Penske, I think the bottom line is with final future investment, the upside here, we believe, is significant and we are squarely focused on realizing that potential. So Charlie, over to you now.

另一件事，這是經過 10 季才完成的作品。我認為一級方程式賽車花了 75 年的時間才達到今天的水平。我們將與國際汽聯以及安德烈蒂和彭斯克等標誌性賽車合作夥伴一起不斷完善賽車系列，我認為最重要的是未來的最終投資，我們相信這方面的優勢是巨大的，我們正專注於實現這一潛力。那麼查理，現在輪到你了。

Thanks, Mike. The next slide sets out the quarterly revenue in EBITDA for each of our four key markets. Now we saw similar trends to Q1 with broadly stable reported revenues across all our OpCos in the second quarter. Sunrise delivered stable revenue in Q2, supported by the July 2023 price rise and continued growth in mobile subscriptions and B2B.

謝謝，麥克。下一張幻燈片列出了我們四個主要市場各自的季度 EBITDA 收入。現在我們看到了與第一季類似的趨勢，第二季我們所有營運公司報告的收入大致穩定。受 2023 年 7 月價格上漲以及行動訂閱和 B2B 持續成長的推動，Sunrise 在第二季度實現了穩定的收入。

Now because there's no price rise this year, the second half of the year will be a price rise benefit, Telenet too posted stable revenue in Q2 despite slightly weaker mobile performance. And Virgin Media O2 reported broadly stable revenue but excluding the impact of the nexfibre construction, saw a revenue decline of around 4%.

現在由於今年沒有漲價，下半年將是漲價帶來的好處，儘管行動業務表現略弱，但 Telenet 在第二季的收入也保持穩定。Virgin Media O2 報告的收入基本上穩定，但如果不包括 nexfibre 建設的影響，收入下降了約 4%。

Now, the key driver of this decline continues to be lower year-on-year hardware sales which are although very low margin and have a limited impact on the EBITDA of the company, do impact top line growth. Now despite this, overall mobile service revenue and fixed subscription revenues did grow.

現在，導致這種下滑的主要原因仍然是硬體銷售額同比下降，雖然利潤率很低，對公司的 EBITDA 影響有限，但確實影響了營收成長。儘管如此，整體行動服務收入和固定訂閱收入確實有所成長。

And encouragingly, as Mike noted, in fixed, we saw improved ARPU trends supporting fixed revenue growth. At VodafoneZiggo, revenue was up 1.5% this quarter, supported by price indexation, continued growth in mobile and B2B fixed revenue. Q2 was another record quarter of mobile service revenue growth.

令人鼓舞的是，正如 Mike 所說，在固定資產方面，我們看到了 ARPU 趨勢的改善，支持了固定收入的成長。VodafoneZiggo 本季營收成長 1.5%，得益於價格指數化、行動和 B2B 固定收入的持續成長。第二季度是行動服務收入成長的另一個創紀錄的季度。

Moving on to adjusted EBITDA performance this quarter. Sunrise posted stable adjusted EBITDA growth, including cost to capture driven by the revenue increase in the quarter and lower OpEx, particularly in labor costs and marketing spend.

本季持續調整 EBITDA 業績。Sunrise 公佈了穩定的調整後 EBITDA 成長，包括本季營收增加推動的成本獲取和營運支出降低，尤其是勞動力成本和行銷支出。

Telenet's EBITDA was down around 9% year over year, reflecting a tough comparison base against Q2 of last year. Now this included a EUR10.5 million one-time benefit they got last year. In addition to this, the decline was due to higher staff-related expenses following the mandatory 1.5% wage indexation and growth in our overall FTE base.

Telenet 的 EBITDA 年減約 9%，與去年第二季相比，其對比基數較大。這包括他們去年獲得的1050萬歐元一次性福利。除此之外，薪資下降還因為強制性的1.5%薪資指數化和整體FTE基數的成長導致員工相關費用增加。

This quarter, we also had increased sales and marketing expenses, including the FMC launch in the south of the country compared to the same period last year when we scaled back our spending due to IT platform migration issues.

本季度，我們的銷售和行銷費用也有所增加，包括在該國南部推出 FMC 服務，而去年同期我們由於 IT 平台遷移問題而減少了支出。

Virgin Media O2's adjusted EBITDA decreased 1%, including nexfibre construction, as the quarter saw a reduced contribution from B2B fixed, Additionally, in Q2, VMO2 continued to invest in the future growth drivers, largely in IT and digital efficiency programs.

Virgin Media O2 的調整後 EBITDA 下降了 1%，包括 nexfibre 建設，因為本季度 B2B 固定收益的貢獻減少了，此外，在第二季度，VMO2 繼續投資於未來的成長動力，主要是在 IT 和數位效率計劃方面。

And VodafoneZiggo delivered around 8% EBITDA growth driven priority by the reversal of energy cost headwinds and lower consultancy service costs. Now this is partly offset by wage increases due to the new collective labor agreement.

由於能源成本逆風的扭轉和諮詢服務成本的降低，VodafoneZiggo 實現了約 8% 的 EBITDA 成長。現在，這一差距已被新的集體勞動協議帶來的工資成長部分抵消。

Turning to the next slide. We give an update on the key metrics underpinning our capital allocation model. In the first half of 2024, we saw consolidated free cash flow and central spend on track. And as is the case in previous years, I anticipate cash distribution of the JVs will be realized in the second half of the year. In relation to our cash position, our consolidated cash balance was $3.5 billion at the end of Q2 2024.

翻到下一張投影片。我們對支撐資本配置模型的關鍵指標進行了更新。2024 年上半年，我們看到合併自由現金流和中央支出步入正軌。與往年的情況一樣，我預計合資企業的現金分配將在下半年實現。就我們的現金狀況而言，截至 2024 年第二季末，我們的綜合現金餘額為 35 億美元。

And the quarter saw cash inflow related to operations of $0.3 billion. We realized net cash from our Ventures of $300 million and share buybacks were around $170 million during the quarter, consistent with our guidance for up to 10% buyback in 2024.

本季經營相關現金流入為 3 億美元。本季度，我們從創投公司獲得了 3 億美元的淨現金，股票回購額約為 1.7 億美元，與我們預計 2024 年回購率高達 10% 的預期一致。

On Ventures, we closed Q2 with a fair market value of around $3 billion following the All3Media disposal. We made net investments of around $100 million in Ventures focusing on AtlasEdge and EdgeConneX, both are the data center assets and part of our infra pillar, where we see strong growth potential and are focused on creating new unicorn assets.

在創投方面，在出售 All3Media 之後，我們第二季結束時的公平市值約為 30 億美元。我們向創投公司淨投資了約 1 億美元，重點投資 AtlasEdge 和 EdgeConneX，它們都是資料中心資產，也是我們基礎設施支柱的一部分，我們看到了強勁的成長潛力，並專注於打造新的獨角獸資產。

And finally, change to our some of the parts, we'd like to highlight the key value drivers of our stock on a per share basis. We believe the current share price of $18 to $19 per share still does not reflect the inherent value of the business and we're committed to closing this valuation graph and the Sunrise spin is the first step to do it.

最後，改變我們的一些部分，我們想強調每股股票的關鍵價值驅動因素。我們認為，目前每股 18 至 19 美元的股價仍然無法反映業務的內在價值，我們致力於關閉這個估值圖，而 Sunrise 旋轉是實現這一目標的第一步。

Encouragingly, the current average analyst valuation for Sunrise of CHF8.4 billion which is up from CHF8 billion in Q1, now implies a $12 per share contribution to the current Liberty Global stock price. And as we go through the Sunrise spin-off execution, our aim is also to unlock the remaining value sitting in cash Ventures and the other FMCs, with Sunrise in the run trade separately.

令人鼓舞的是，目前分析師對 Sunrise 的平均估值為 84 億瑞士法郎，高於第一季的 80 億瑞士法郎，這意味著對 Liberty Global 當前股價的每股貢獻為 12 美元。在執行 Sunrise 分拆的過程中，我們的目標還在於釋放現金創投公司和其他基金管理公司 (FMC) 中剩餘的價值，而 Sunrise 則單獨進行營運交易。

So when taking the book value of cash, listed stakes, and unlisted Ventures which sums to around $14 per share and combining with the Sunrise $12 per share, the implied value of a Liberty Global share is around $26 per share. This is even without attributing any value to the remaining FMCs. The implied value is around current average analyst target price of $25 a share, but if the Sunrise value is realized over time does imply very substantial upside on non-core from a preferred value of $7 a share to $13.

因此，當將現金、上市股份和非上市企業的帳面價值（總計約為每股 14 美元）與每股 12 美元的 Sunrise 結合時，Liberty Global 股票的隱含價值約為每股 26 美元。這甚至還沒有賦予剩餘的 FMC 任何價值。隱含價值約為當前分析師平均目標價 25 美元/股，但如果 Sunrise 價值隨著時間的推移得以實現，則意味著非核心價值將從優先價 7 美元/股大幅上漲至 13 美元。

Turning to our debt stack. We continue to have a strong position, maintaining long-term fixed debt profile of around five years. We also continue to hold our cash and liquidity at the parent company with the debt stack siloed at the key FMC assets.

轉向我們的債務堆積。我們繼續維持強勢地位，維持約五年的長期固定債務狀況。我們也繼續將現金和流動性保留在母公司，而債務則集中在關鍵的 FMC 資產上。

Now our debt silos do not face material maturities until 2028 and we remain proactive in extending the tenure. This is facilitated by our extensive swap portfolio with the swaps independent of the underlying bank debt. And importantly, this allows us to be opportunistic and strategic in the market and strengthens our attractive debt position.

現在，我們的債務直到 2028 年才會面臨實際到期，而且我們仍積極延長債務期限。這是得益於我們廣泛的掉期組合，這些掉期組合獨立於基礎銀行債務。重要的是，這使我們在市場上具有機會和戰略性，並增強了我們具有吸引力的債務地位。

At Sunrise, we're proactively deleveraging ahead of the spin to ensure an initial leverage range of 3.5 times to 4.5 times. The CHF1.5 billion deleveraging which is approximately $1.7 billion will be funded by Liberty Global Corporate cash, Sunrise 2024 free cash flow, and the All3Media proceeds which we received in Q2.

在 Sunrise，我們在旋轉之前主動去槓桿，以確保初始槓桿範圍在 3.5 倍到 4.5 倍之間。15 億瑞士法郎的去槓桿計畫（約 17 億美元）將由 Liberty Global Corporate 現金、Sunrise 2024 自由現金流以及我們在第二季度收到的 All3Media 收益提供資金。

And lastly, I'd like to give you an update on our 2024 guidance. At VMO2, the company expects to deliver a low- to mid-single digit decline in revenue excluding nexfibre construction. Now this is a decline as a result of the lower margin hardware revenue, which continues to be a headwind.

最後，我想向您介紹我們 2024 年指引的最新情況。在 VMO2，該公司預計不包括 nexfibre 建設在內的收入將出現低至中等個位數的下降。現在，這是由於硬體收入利潤率較低而導致的下降，這仍然是一個阻力。

However, the other revenue teams are expected to be stable and adjusted EBITDA, adjusted free cash flow, and all other 2024 guidance is reiterated at VMO2 as the company continues to invest in its growth drivers. To underpin this, VMO2 has had a solid start to the year with a slightly better than 2% EBITDA decline. I also want to additionally reconfirm all other guidance at Telenet, Sunrise, and VodafoneZiggo. And that concludes our prepared remarks for Q2 2024. And I would like to hand over to the operator for Q&A.

不過，隨著公司繼續投資於成長動力，其他收入團隊預計將保持穩定，調整後的 EBITDA、調整後的自由現金流以及所有其他 2024 年指引均在 VMO2 中重申。為了證明這一點，VMO2 今年開局良好，EBITDA 降幅略高於 2%。我還想再次確認 Telenet、Sunrise 和 VodafoneZiggo 的所有其他指導。這就是我們對 2024 年第二季的準備發言結束。我想把時間交給接線生進行問答。

(Operator Instructions) Carl Murdock-Smith, Berenberg.

（操作員指示）卡爾·默多克·史密斯（Carl Murdock-Smith），貝倫貝格。

Hi, thank you very much. I just wanted to ask about Virgin Media O2 and the fiber rollout there. So fiber now passes 5 million premises. But of that, how many are actually ready for sale? And how many broadband customers do you have on the fiber infrastructure, particularly in upgraded cable areas?

你好，非常感謝。我只是想詢問有關 Virgin Media O2 和那裡的光纖鋪設情況。目前，光纖已覆蓋 500 萬戶。但其中有多少真正準備出售呢？您在光纖基礎架構上擁有多少寬頻客戶，特別是在升級有線網路的區域？

The reason I'm asking is there were a few reports a few months ago that you faced delays in being able to launch services to fiber customers in Project Mustang areas, where there was previously cable network. Thank you.

我之所以詢問這個問題，是因為幾個月前有報導稱，你們在向野馬計劃地區的光纖客戶推出服務時遇到了延遲，而這些地區之前已經有有線網路。謝謝。

Well, I mean, I'll let Lutz dig into the details. I'm not sure we're disclosing that much information, Carl. But the 5 million breaks out into both, nexfibre about 1.3 million, I believe and the balance on our VMO2 upgrade or fiber up as we call it, we're connecting customers on nexfibre. I'm not sure we disclosed our penetration rate, Lutz and Charlie jump in here, if you think we have, I'm pretty sure we have it.

好吧，我的意思是，我會讓 Lutz 深入了解細節。卡爾，我不確定我們是否披露了那麼多資訊。但是，我相信，這 500 萬分為 nexfibre 約 130 萬，而我們的 VMO2 升級或我們所謂的光纖升級的餘額，我們正在透過 nexfibre 連接客戶。我不確定我們是否披露了我們的滲透率，盧茨和查理插話說，如果你認為我們已經披露了，那麼我很確定我們已經披露了。

And then we're taking our time on converting HFC customers to fiber, just getting ourselves ready to do that more than anything. And that's as much around how we package and market products and services than where we build or where we don't build.

然後，我們會花時間將 HFC 客戶轉換為光纖，並做好充分的準備。這與我們如何包裝和行銷產品和服務有關，與我們在哪裡生產或不在哪裡生產有關。

So in terms of homes ready for service. Lutz, I don't believe we're providing that detail. That's how the fiber homes break out. But clearly, we're gearing up to take advantage of these fiber homes or we wouldn't be building them in the first place. But jump in here, do you think there's more we're going to say, Charlie or Lutz?

就可供使用的房屋而言。盧茨，我不認為我們會提供那麼詳細的資訊。這就是光纖家庭的興起方式。但顯然，我們正準備利用這些光纖住宅，否則我們一開始就不會建造它們。但是，請別介意，查理還是盧茨，你認為我們還能說更多嗎？

(multiple speakers) --

（多位發言者）——

Yeah, the only thing I can add is that at the moment, we are well-positioned with our HFC network with our 60 million homes. So therefore, we have taken a conscious decision not to start selling fiber, but as Mike has said, we will do and you see in our churn numbers that, at the moment, customers are not leaving our network because of fiber.

是的，我唯一能補充的是，目前，我們的 HFC 網路已覆蓋 6,000 萬戶家庭，處於有利地位。因此，我們有意識地決定不開始銷售光纖，但正如麥克所說，我們會這樣做，而且您可以從我們的客戶流失資料中看到，目前，客戶並沒有因為光纖而離開我們的網路。

That's great. Thank you.

那太棒了。謝謝。

Maurice Patrick, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的莫里斯·帕特里克。

Yeah, thanks, guys, for taking the question. It's Maurice here from Barclays. Sorry for the UK question. But I see in the financials, you lost, I think it was 12,000 broadband customers, but you had growth in nexfibre. I'm just conscious listening to the -- looking at the BT numbers yesterday, they saw [190,000] losses of customers in Openreach.

是的，謝謝大家回答這個問題。我是巴克萊銀行的莫里斯。抱歉，我問的是英國的問題。但我從財務數據來看，你們損失了 12,000 名寬頻客戶，但你們的 nexfibre 卻實現了成長。我只是有意識地聽到——查看昨天的 BT 數據，他們發現 Openreach 的客戶流失了 [190,000]。

They said they were seeing increased loss to competitors but also a soft pull by markets. So just curious as to given you presumably you lost about [30,000, 40,000] on the legacy footprint, are you seeing more impact from Altnets? Is it a soft market? What's driving that shift? And should we see improvement in the coming quarters?

他們表示，他們看到競爭對手的損失不斷增加，但市場吸引力也正在減弱。所以我很好奇，鑑於你可能在傳統佔用空間上損失了大約 [30,000, 40,000]，你是否看到 Altnets 帶來的更多影響？這是一個疲軟的市場嗎？是什麼推動了這種轉變？我們在未來幾季是否會看到改善？

Go ahead, Lutz.

繼續吧，盧茨。

Yeah, thank you for the question, Maurice. So in the net add development outside nexfibre, we are a bit better this year in a price rise quarter compared to last year. So therefore, yes, I agree Altnets are increasing their activities, right? They build less, but they try to sell more and therefore, you see aggressive promotions. But in the scheme of things, we managed to keep our base stable in the price rise quarter.

是的，謝謝你的提問，莫里斯。因此，在 nexfibre 以外的淨增發展方面，今年我們在價格上漲季度的表現比去年要好一些。因此，是的，我同意 Altnets 正在增加他們的活動，對嗎？他們生產的較少，但他們試圖銷售更多，因此，你會看到積極的促銷。但從總體來看，我們設法在價格上漲的季度保持了基礎穩定。

And we have now managed also to increase the ARPU and the fixed service revenue first time in three years. And this is a result of a completely different way of working, right? We understand every household we are serving. We run 25,000 campaigns in parallel. And we come up with individual product and price combination and therefore, we are able to maximize retained revenue. Something we have achieved for several years and it starts now to really pay off since Q3 last year.

而且我們也成功實現了三年來首次提高 ARPU 和固定服務收入。這是完全不同的工作方式的結果，對嗎？我們了解我們所服務的每一個家庭。我們同時進行 25,000 個活動。我們提出了單獨的產品和價格組合，因此我們能夠最大化保留收入。我們已經取得了一些成就，但從去年第三季開始才真正獲得回報。

On the nexfibre area, we haven't disclosed any numbers, but it is fair to say that we are a bit behind in our ambition. The reason for that is that fiber is a new product. So we had to also deliver the video product. It's a bit of different sale, it's a different sale process. It's a different provisioning process, but we are getting better and better.

在 nexfibre 領域，我們尚未披露任何數據，但公平地說，我們的目標有點落後了。原因在於纖維是一種新產品。因此我們也必須提供視訊產品。這是有點不同的銷售，這是一個不同的銷售流程。這是一個不同的配置過程，但我們正在變得越來越好。

And we stick to our ambition that end of this year, we have sold so many fiber customers into the nexfibre area that turns into a growth driver for '25. But I think it is simply a ramp time. We lost a couple of months there. But month over month, we faced record months in sales and provisioning. And we want to sell and we will sell much more in second half. I hope that answers your question.

我們堅持我們的目標，到今年年底，我們已經向 nexfibre 領域銷售了許多光纖客戶，這將成為 25 年的成長動力。但我認為這只是一個上升時間而已。我們在那裡浪費了幾個月的時間。但月復一月，我們的銷售和供應量都創下了歷史新高。我們希望銷售，並且下半年我們會銷售更多。我希望這能回答你的問題。

Yeah. Just maybe on the phasing, sorry for a quick follow-up. But if you look at the cadence of net-adds and ARPU, it should be maybe different this year given the way the price increases put through?

是的。可能只是處於階段性階段，很抱歉不能很快跟進。但如果你看一下淨增用戶和 ARPU 的變化節奏，考慮到價格上漲的方式，今年的情況應該會有所不同？

I mean, it could be but the majority of our customers are in contract. So we know exactly how many will be out of contract. So we don't expect a massive different phasing there, a little bit, it could be.

我的意思是，有可能，但我們的大多數客戶都已簽訂了合約。因此我們確切地知道有多少人的合約將到期。因此，我們預計那裡不會出現大規模的不同階段，但可能會有一點點不同。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Ulrich Rathe, Bernstein, Societe Generale Group.

烏爾里希·拉特（Ulrich Rathe），伯恩斯坦，法國興業銀行集團。

Yeah, thanks very much. And I wanted to ask a little bit about the Belgian memorandum of understanding. So the idea for the mutual wholesale access, could you just confirm that's at the active for the passive level? And also when you envisage sort of an agreement eventually, obviously, the terms aren't really announced and probably not finalized yet.

是的，非常感謝。我想問一些比利時諒解備忘錄的問題。那麼，對於相互批發准入的想法，您能否確認這是處於主動還是被動層面？而且當您最終設想達成某種協議時，顯然條款尚未真正公佈，可能尚未最終確定。

But do you essentially foresee this JV to -- not JV, sorry, this carve up to offer terms to each other, to the partners on a reciprocal level that are different from the terms that are offered to other takers by virtue of the underlying agreement? Or are the wholesale essentially going to be open to all takers at the same level? Thank you.

但是，您是否從本質上預見到這個合資企業——不是合資企業，對不起，這個分割方案是為了在互惠層面上向合作夥伴提供不同於根據基本協議向其他接受者提供的條款？或者批發基本上會對同一級別的所有接受者開放嗎？謝謝。

Yeah, it's a really important question. And just to remind everybody that -- the contract is under -- is now being reviewed the regulators. So we're hopeful they'll see it the way we see it as a very constructive development for the market and for the operator. John, do you want to address the specific issue around wholesale rate to the extent we're disclosing that at all?

是的，這是一個非常重要的問題。需要提醒大家的是，該合約正在接受監管機構的審查。因此，我們希望他們能夠像我們一樣認為這對市場和營運商來說都是一個非常有建設性的發展。約翰，你是否想談談有關批發價的具體問題，以便我們能夠全面披露這一問題？

Yeah. But first of all, for clarity, it is a passive -- reciprocal passive deal ultimately with Proximus, where Telenet will be building 60% and Proximus 40% in the collaboration zone, which is about 2 million of the homes passed in Flanders.

是的。但首先，為了清楚起見，這最終是一項與 Proximus 達成的被動——互惠被動協議，其中 Telenet 將負責建設合作區內的 60%，而 Proximus 將負責建設 40%，這大約佔法蘭德斯地區 200 萬戶家庭的一半。

The principle of it being open and non-discriminatory is already a public principle articulated by the regulator. And we do have a regulatory process which will be underway here very shortly. But like I said, the principle of a non-discriminatory regime will be in place in part of that agreement.

開放、非歧視的原則已經是監管機構所闡明的公共原則。我們確實有一個監管流程，很快就會開始。但正如我所說，非歧視制度的原則將在該協議的一部分中體現。

Very clear. Thank you very much.

非常清楚。非常感謝。

Polo Tang, UBS.

瑞銀 Polo Tang。

Hi. Thanks for taking the question. It's on Switzerland. Can you maybe talk through what you're seeing in terms of competitive dynamics in Swiss market? And can you maybe comment on a few specific factors? So for example, what's happening with promotional activity, specifically in the Swiss market. Also, is there still a drag on financials and KPIs from the retirement of the UPC brand. And then also going into Q3, Q4, should we expect your Swiss financials to see slower growth as you start to lap your 4% price rises from July 2023? Thanks.

你好。感謝您回答這個問題。它在瑞士。您能否談談您所看到的瑞士市場的競爭動態？您能否就一些具體因素發表評論？舉例來說，促銷活動的情況如何，特別是在瑞士市場。此外，UPC 品牌的退出是否仍會對財務和 KPI 造成拖累。然後進入第三季度和第四季度，隨著您從 2023 年 7 月開始承受 4% 的價格上漲，我們是否應該預期您的瑞士財務狀況將出現成長放緩？謝謝。

I mean I'll let André address the competitive dynamics. And I think I mentioned in my remarks, Polo, we believe the UPC migration will be done by year-end and we'll have an increasingly smaller and smaller impact on results.

我的意思是我會讓安德烈解決競爭動態問題。我想我在我的演講中提到過，Polo，我們相信 UPC 遷移將在年底前完成，對結果的影響將越來越小。

And I don't believe we've provided quarterly guidance but take a look at where we are year-to-date through the midyear and where we ought to get to the full year guidance. I think you can do that on your own. Do you want to talk about the competitive dynamics, André?

我認為我們還沒有提供季度指引，但請看一下今年迄今到年中的情況，以及我們應該獲得全年指引的情況。我認為你自己就能做到這一點。你想談談競爭動態嗎，安德烈？

Sure, yeah. Thanks for the question, Polo. So I would describe the competitive dynamics as promotional intensity being high, but at the same time, we are seeing a bit of a wearing off effect, meaning liquidity in the marketplace is somewhat reducing. I guess, customers are increasingly getting tired of the ongoing price promotions being the only argument being raised.

當然。謝謝你的提問，Polo。因此，我認為競爭態勢是促銷強度很大，但同時，我們看到了一些逐漸消退的效果，這意味著市場流動性有所減少。我想，顧客已經越來越厭倦持續不斷的價格促銷成為唯一的論點。

On the back of that, I think our inflow was benefiting from two additional features that we have launched. One was the Flex upgrade program on hardware, which is a very strong driver of our inflow at this moment. So that's perceived as a differentiating factor.

在此基礎上，我認為我們的流入受益於我們推出的兩個附加功能。一個是硬體的Flex升級計劃，這是目前我們資金流入的強大驅動力。因此這被視為一個區別因素。

And second to that, we have also announced that we are increasing our HFC speeds for 70% of the population in Switzerland to 2.5 gig. That's another differentiating factor. Very relevant one, we believe, because, A, of course, there's only 40% of the country today covered with fiber and all additional HFC coverage is having a unique situation, not only delivering 1 gig, but now 2.5 gig, which we think is also strengthening our position with customers when fiber rollout will increasingly get to areas where we have been a unique selling proposition with HFC so far. So I think that's positive.

其次，我們也宣布，我們將把瑞士 70% 人口的 HFC 速度提高到 2.5G。這是另一個區別因素。我們認為這是非常相關的，因為，A，當然，目前全國祇有 40% 的地區覆蓋了光纖，而所有額外的 HFC 覆蓋都面臨著獨特的情況，不僅提供 1gigabit，而且現在還提供 2.5gigabit，我們認為這也加強了我們在客戶中的地位，因為光纖鋪設到我們迄今為止越來越多地覆蓋我們將擁有的地區。所以我認為這是積極的。

Additionally, I think worthwhile mentioning where we have seen good dynamics on our own inflow, you've seen 33,000 and 5,000 on mobile and broadband, respectively, on broadband; now the third quarter consecutively where we have been in the positives. That is not only on the back of strong inflow but furthermore we have reduced churn which is on the back, again, of increased retention activities, increased and improved service capabilities and our ability to differentiate through the product additions that I mentioned.

此外，我認為值得一提的是，我們看到了自身流入量的良好動態，您已經看到移動和寬頻上分別有 33,000 和 5,000 個；我們已經連續第三季保持正成長。這不僅是由於強勁的流入，而且我們還減少了客戶流失，這又是由於增加了保留活動，增強並改善了服務能力，以及透過我提到的產品增加實現差異化的能力。

So I think overall, it remains an intense market but we see some wearing off of promotional activity, I would say, to consumers. And on the back of that, we just recently also have seen that the amount of discounts being granted has been slightly reduced. So I think that's a positive indication going forward and we will continue to drive that trend.

因此我認為總體而言，這仍然是一個激烈的市場，但我們看到對於消費者來說，促銷活動有所減弱。在此基礎上，我們最近也看到，給予的折扣金額略有減少。所以我認為這是未來的一個積極跡象，我們將繼續推動這一趨勢。

And as with other markets, having this dual-brand strategy is making a world of difference because you can compete with Salt on one hand and Swisscom on the other hand with products that match their offers and the customers they're targeting.

與其他市場一樣，這種雙品牌策略正在帶來巨大的差異，因為您可以一方面與 Salt 競爭，另一方面與 Swisscom 競爭，提供符合其產品和目標客戶群的產品。

Just on the dual-brand strategy. You don't have one in terms of the UK because you have a premium Virgin Media O2 brand. So that's a different setup from other markets now.

僅就雙品牌策略而言。就英國而言，你們沒有，因為你們擁有高端的 Virgin Media O2 品牌。所以這與現在其他市場的設定不同。

No, we have Giffgaff. Giffgaff is our, well, flanker brand, if you will, in the UK and arguably one of the stronger elements of growth. Giffgaff is a really digital-first incredibly popular mobile brand which at some point, could be a broader telco brand. But that's our brand in the UK, Giffgaff. Do you want to say any more about that, Lutz? Yeah, okay. Thank you.

不，我們有吉夫加夫。如果你願意的話，Giffgaff 是我們在英國的側翼品牌，可以說是成長最強勁的因素之一。Giffgaff 是一個真正以數位為先、非常受歡迎的行動品牌，未來可能會成為更廣泛的電信品牌。但這是我們在英國的品牌，Giffgaff。盧茨，你還想再說點什麼嗎？嗯，好的。謝謝。

David Wright, Bank of America.

美國銀行的戴維賴特（David Wright）。

Yes, hello, guys, and thank you for taking our questions. And once again, I guess, Mike, Lutz, just more of a question on UK potential consolidation. I'm just wondering whether this dynamic of the Altnets maybe focusing the financial resources more on loading the network and provisioning rather than building.

是的，大家好，感謝你們回答我們的問題。我想，麥克、盧茨，我再一次想問關於英國潛在合併的問題。我只是想知道 Altnets 的這種動態是否會將財務資源更多地集中在加載網路和配置上，而不是建設上。

Does that create any potential sort of hurdles to consolidation, the fact that you might -- any of these businesses might have incumbent subscribers, maybe on discounted pricing, could that create any more regulatory challenges?

這是否會對整合造成任何潛在的障礙，事實上，這些企業可能擁有現有用戶，也許可以享受折扣價，這是否會帶來更多的監管挑戰？

And I guess there's an obvious kind of TalkTalk has, I think, even themselves have made it quite clear there's an element of distress around that business at the moment. Do you think given the kind of going concern risk that the UK regulator could even consider customers from TalkTalk possibly even being acquired by the two biggest network operators yourselves and BT? Thank you.

我想 TalkTalk 顯然已經表明，甚至他們自己也已經明確表示，目前該業務存在一些困擾因素。您是否認為，考慮到持續經營風險，英國監管機構甚至會考慮 TalkTalk 的客戶，甚至可能被您和英國電信這兩大網路業者收購？謝謝。

Well, I'm not going to speak about TalkTalk. You can read about their situation. And it's premature to determine or even guess to what the regulator may or may not do and what they may or may not do. We're not assuming TalkTalk is doing anything but competing with us until they're not, so not much to add to that.

好吧，我不想談論 TalkTalk。您可以閱讀以了解他們的情況。現在判斷甚至猜測監管機構可能做什麼或不做什麼以及可能做什麼或不做什麼還為時過早。我們不認為 TalkTalk 會做任何事，除了與我們競爭，直到他們不再與我們競爭為止，因此對此沒有太多補充。

On the Altnets question, I mean you are seeing what you described which is a slowdown in build as financing and capital slowly dries up and I think that will continue. There will be winners and losers in that game. Some will continue to raise capital. Others will consolidate and others will stop building. And so inevitably, one way to improve their prospects is to start selling more directly and perhaps more competitively, it's still very early days.

關於 Altnets 的問題，我的意思是，您看到了您所描述的情況，即隨著融資和資本的逐漸枯竭，建設速度將放緩，我認為這種情況將持續下去。那場比賽會有贏家和輸家。一些公司將繼續籌集資金。其他國家將會鞏固，其他國家將會停止建設。因此不可避免的是，改善前景的一種方法是開始更直接、更具競爭力的銷售，但現在還為時過早。

It's too soon to tell whether this will have an impact on the broader market, whether it will have an impact on their futures and/or our ability to consolidate or not in this market. But I think the trend is the same and I'll let Lutz if he wants to -- or Andrea, if he wants to speak to it. The trend is the same.

現在判斷這是否會對整體市場產生影響、是否會對他們的未來和/或我們在這個市場整合的能力產生影響還為時過早。但我認為趨勢是一樣的，如果盧茨願意的話我會讓他說——或者安德里亞願意談論這個話題的話我會讓他說。趨勢是一樣的。

There are companies like nexfibre, which is fully financed at GBP4.5 billion that we own a piece of, that is going to be building, full stop and is going to get to 5 million to 7 million homes in home. No question about it. There's VMO2 which is going already at 16 million and 3.5 million, 4 million of which are fiber and is going to get to full fiber, full stop. So there's going to be platforms like ours with 21 million to 24 million homes and that's a certainty and BT is a certainty. And the rest, we'll see how it shakes out.

還有像 nexfibre 這樣的公司，我們擁有該公司的部分股權，其全資子公司融資 45 億英鎊，計劃建造 500 萬至 700 萬套住宅。毫無疑問。VMO2 已經達到 1,600 萬和 350 萬，其中 400 萬是光纖，並且即將完全實現光纖化。因此，將會有像我們這樣的 2,100 萬到 2,400 萬戶家庭的平台，這是肯定的，BT 也是肯定的。其餘的事情，我們拭目以待。

I think it's -- the writing is on the wall, so to speak but that doesn't mean between here and there, it's a straight line. There will be puts and takes. We look at M&A prospects along three or four levels. First of all, what's the overbuild with us, if we can upgrade at GBP100, what's it worth it to us to acquire an existing fiber home that somebody spent GBP500 to build.

我認為這是——可以說是顯而易見的，但這並不意味著這裡和那裡之間是一條直線。將會有得有失。我們從三個或四個層次審視併購前景。首先，我們為什麼要過度建設，如果我們可以花 100 英鎊進行升級，那麼購買別人花費 500 英鎊建造的現有光纖家庭對我們來說有什麼價值呢？

Secondly, the quality of that network, obviously, what it would cost us to get to our sort of level of sophistication. And thirdly, is there a customer base. And maybe your main question is, does the existence of a customer base on an alternate change that dynamic materially?

其次，顯然，網路的品質以及我們要達到何種複雜程度需要付出什麼代價。第三，是否有客戶群。也許您主要的問題是，替代品上的客戶群的存在是否會從根本上改變這種動態？

And I would say no. If there are customers. and we would look to see how those could be integrated or required or migrated. That in and of itself doesn't change the principal analysis. It's more about where they built, how much they've spent to build, and how it fits with our broader strategy. I'll maybe pass Andrea, do you have anything to add to that Andrea as the Chairman of nexfibre.

而我的答案是「不」。如果有顧客。我們將研究如何整合、要求或遷移它們。這本身並不會改變主要分析。這更多地取決於他們在哪裡建造、花了多少錢建造以及它如何與我們更廣泛的策略相適應。我可能會讓安德里亞發言，安德里亞作為 nexfibre 的董事長，您還有什麼要補充的嗎？

No, I think you've summed it. Yeah, thank you, Mike. I think you summed it up well, Mike. I would simply say that there's also a certain amount of value expectations, I think that need to get reset in the market, before we can start to see material consolidation. So I think that's one of the other issues that people are struggling with at the moment.

不，我想你已經總結出來了。是的，謝謝你，麥克。我認為你總結得很好，麥克。我只想說，還存在一定數量的價值預期，我認為在我們開始看到實質整合之前，市場需要重新設定這些預期。所以我認為這是人們目前正在努力解決的另一個問題。

You just put the infrastructure multiple out there, haven't you guys in one of your early slides, I think you've given the market its price point.

您剛剛將基礎設施的倍數放在那裡，難道您沒有在早期的幻燈片中提到過嗎，我認為您已經給了市場它的價格點。

Well, I would say those are pure NetCos with scale and cash flow. So it's a little different metric and a little different market. Yeah, and existing customers, but a fair point, yeah, there you go.

嗯，我想說那些是具有規模和現金流的純粹的淨公司。所以這是一個略有不同的衡量標準和略有不同的市場。是的，還有現有客戶，但公平地說，是的，就是這樣。

It was a little tongue-in-cheek, but appreciate the answer. Thank you, guys.

雖然有點諷刺，但還是很欣賞你的回答。謝謝你們。

Joshua Mills, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的 Joshua Mills。

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking the question. It comes back a bit to the cable versus fiber debate. And my question is, can you talk a bit about how you're testing DOCSIS 4.0. And then going back to André's comment earlier of the improvement in speeding the Swiss cable network, can you maybe give any stats about the kind of commercial benefits you're seeing where you do upgrade cable to faster speeds and maybe just give us a sense of how much the network longer term will go to that?

嗨，大家好。感謝您回答這個問題。這又回到了電纜與光纖之爭的話題上。我的問題是，您能談談您如何測試 DOCSIS 4.0 嗎？然後回到安德烈之前對瑞士有線電視網絡速度提升的評論，您能否提供一些統計數據，說明昇級有線電視網絡速度後，您所看到的商業利益，以及從長遠來看，網絡將為此付出多少努力？

And maybe if I could tack on one small question. One of the points of the Proximus sale today is they're now going to be wholesaling from you on cable in 700,000 homes. I think in the past when you've talked about your cable versus fiber strategy, one of the points about the UK was a benefit of upgrade to fiber gives us that opportunity to wholesale. Now you're doing that just on the cable network, so you don't need to make that investment. Do you think this could be a template for other markets in the future as well? And how should we think about that? Thank you.

也許我可以提出一個小問題。Proximus 今天銷售的亮點之一是他們現在將透過有線電視向 70 萬戶家庭批發產品。我想，過去當您談論有線電視與光纖策略時，關於英國的其中一個觀點是升級到光纖的好處為我們提供了批發的機會。現在您只需在有線網路上進行此操作，因此無需進行投資。您認為這也能成為未來其他市場的模板嗎？我們該如何看待這個問題？謝謝。

Yeah, that's a good question. And Josh, I'm not sure we have enough time to answer it but I'll take a quick crack on it and maybe Enrique can chime in here, too. First of all, we have been wholesaling cable or a hybrid fiber coax in Belgium. John, I don't know, five years or something like that. We were regulated in Belgium and obligated to open up the cable network in Flanders.

是的，這是個好問題。喬希，我不確定我們是否有足夠的時間來回答這個問題，但我會快速回答一下，也許恩里克也可以加入。首先，我們一直在比利時批發電纜或混合光纖同軸電纜。約翰，我不知道，五年或類似的時間。我們在比利時受到監管，並有義務開放佛蘭德斯的有線電視網。

And we did and Orange Belgium is a very happy customer on our cable network and has hundreds of thousands of customers and will be and has already committed exclusively to our fiber build as we do that through wire. So there are situations where either it's HFC or fiber, wholesalers are happy as long as they're getting the speeds they want the service, the quality, it works fine. We haven't done it anywhere else.

我們確實這樣做了，Orange Belgium 是我們有線網路的非常滿意的客戶，擁有數十萬客戶，並且已經並將繼續致力於我們的光纖建設，因為我們透過有線方式進行建設。因此，無論是 HFC 還是光纖，批發商只要能夠獲得他們想要的速度、服務和質量，就會很高興，一切正常。我們還沒有在其他地方做過這件事。

We haven't been obligated to do it anywhere else. It doesn't mean we couldn't do it elsewhere. But I think when you step back and ask the question, why wouldn't we do it, in say, the UK, principally, it's because the cost to upgrade the fiber and the cost to upgrade to DOCSIS 4 in the UK is about the same within spitting distance, so to speak.

我們沒有義務在其他地方做這件事。這並不意味著我們不能在其他地方做到這一點。但我認為，當你退一步思考並問這個問題時，為什麼我們不這樣做，例如在英國，主要是因為在英國升級光纖的成本和升級到 DOCSIS 4 的成本大致相同，可以這麼說。

And when you have the choice of upgrading to DOCSIS 4 or fiber in a market like the UK where you own your own DOCS, it's pretty clear that fiber makes more sense for the long term when you might need to look at DOCSIS 5, DOCSIS 6. But more importantly, when the entire wholesale market is working off of a fiber platform, beginning, of course, with Openreach and even Altnets then to be competitive, to be in that marketplace, you're going to need to go fiber.

當您可以選擇在擁有自己的 DOCS 的英國市場升級到 DOCSIS 4 或光纖時，很明顯，當您可能需要考慮 DOCSIS 5、DOCSIS 6 時，從長遠來看，光纖更有意義。但更重要的是，當整個批發市場都採用光纖平台時，當然是從 Openreach 甚至 Altnets 開始，為了具有競爭力，為了進入該市場，你需要使用光纖。

So there's a market check. What's needed at the commercial level, what's the rest of the sector doing in that market around, access or kind of technology. So that's driving the decision in that market. In Belgium, we are happy as HFC wholesalers and we'll continue to do that for some time. But slowly and over time, we'll migrate that network to fiber as we've discussed and clarify today with that MOU.

因此，需要進行市場檢查。商業層面需要什麼，該市場中其他行業正在做什麼，獲取途徑或技術類型。這就是推動該市場決策的原因。在比利時，我們很高興能成為 HFC 批發商，而且我們會繼續做下去。但隨著時間的推移，我們會慢慢地將網路遷移到光纖，正如我們今天在諒解備忘錄中所討論和澄清的那樣。

And then Switzerland, we're taking an even different approach which is let's use the best technology for the particular customer in a particular region. And so in that market, we have a complete option, a menu. We can access our 2.5-gig HFC platform. We can access the Swisscom's fiber platform. We can build fiber. We really have the best of all options there.

在瑞士，我們採取了一種更不同的方法，那就是為特定地區的特定客戶使用最好的技術。因此在那個市場，我們有完整的選擇和菜單。我們可以訪問我們的 2.5-gig HFC 平台。我們可以存取瑞士電信的光纖平台。我們可以生產光纖。我們確實擁有那裡最好的選擇。

Clearly, we'll migrate as many customers as we can to our own infrastructure because that benefits margins, but we really have the flexibility to be competitive from a retail point of view with whatever technology makes the most sense.

顯然，我們會將盡可能多的客戶遷移到我們自己的基礎設施，因為這有利於提高利潤，但從零售的角度來看，我們確實可以靈活地利用最合理的技術來保持競爭力。

So there's not one size that fits all in this equation but it typically revolves around the cost to upgrade, the market realities of the competitive environment, the wholesale environment, the revenue opportunity in wholesale and whether or not regulators are requiring us to do one thing or another as they did in Belgium, for example.

因此，在這個等式中，沒有一個適合所有情況的統一模型，但它通常圍繞著升級成本、競爭環境的市場現實、批發環境、批發中的收入機會以及監管機構是否要求我們做這一件事或那一件事，就像他們在比利時所做的那樣。

So I think we're taking the right approach. If you dig into each and every one of them, you'd see that they are the correct way to attack the economics, the technology, the customer opportunity, the competitive environment. And it's great to have that ability to be flexible. So I hope that's addressing your question. But if there's anything further, maybe follow-up and let's make sure we've done it.

所以我認為我們採取了正確的方法。如果你深入研究其中的每一個，你會發現，這些都是攻克經濟、技術、客戶機會和競爭環境的正確方法。擁有這種靈活的能力真是太好了。我希望這能回答你的問題。但如果還有其他事情，也許會跟進，並確保我們已經完成了。

Yeah, that's very clear. And I'm guessing the -- any detail on how faster broadband speeds on the cable network in Switzerland as the old cable network might wait for the [CMV] now

是的，很清楚。我猜想，瑞士有線電視網路的寬頻速度會比舊有線網路快多少，現在可能需要等待 [CMV]

Okay. Yeah, they'll dig into that for sure.

好的。是的，他們肯定會深入調查此事。

[Luigi Minerva, HSBC].

[路易吉·米勒瓦，匯豐銀行]。

Yes, hello, everybody. Thanks for taking my questions. It's about the Netherlands and your pricing strategy. If I think about your broadband price increase last year, I think you just did exactly what KPN did back in July 2023. Now this year, KPN is going for 3.8% growth. And VodafoneZiggo is going for 2.5%. And I was wondering what is the rationale behind this and how you see competitive dynamics in that market? Thank you.

是的，大家好。感謝您回答我的問題。這是關於荷蘭和您的定價策略的問題。如果我考慮一下去年你們的寬頻價格上漲，我想你們所做的和 KPN 在 2023 年 7 月所做的一模一樣。今年，KPN 的成長目標是 3.8%。而 VodafoneZiggo 的稅率為 2.5%。我想知道這背後的原理是什麼以及您如何看待該市場的競爭動態？謝謝。

Yeah, we've got Ritchy on, who's our interim CEO. I think it's as much as anything to do with the fact that we're trying to remain competitive in a declining inflation market which doesn't call for the same sort of increases. But Ritchy, do you want to provide more color on our price increase level?

是的，我們請來了 Ritchy，他是我們的臨時執行長。我認為這與我們試圖在通膨下降的市場中保持競爭力有關，而通膨市場並不需要同樣的成長。但 Ritchy，你想對我們的價格上漲幅度提供更多細節嗎？

Yeah, for sure. Thanks, Mike. The two things, first and foremost, we do a price increase both on the back book and front book. It's not similar to the others in the Dutch market. But also keep in mind that the inflation in the Netherlands is falling. Last year, we had about 10% inflation. And we did an 8.5% fixed price increase. This year, the inflation is 3.8% and we're doing 2.5%.

是的，當然。謝謝，麥克。有兩件事，首先也是最重要的，我們對前後書的價格都提高了。它與荷蘭市場上的其他產品不同。但也請記住，荷蘭的通貨膨脹正在下降。去年，我們的通貨膨脹率約為10%。我們將價格固定上調了 8.5%。今年的通膨率為 3.8%，而我們的通膨率為 2.5%。

The price increase in itself is, I would say, not a reflection of the competitive position in the market but it's all about price value perception. We do see that customers who decide to leave us, use cost of subscription as a main reason for them to churn. And hence our decision to go slightly below the inflation level to make sure that the price sort of value perception stays in balance with market expectations.

我想說，價格上漲本身並不反映市場競爭地位，而是完全取決於價格價值認知。我們確實發現，決定離開我們的客戶將訂閱費用作為他們流失的主要原因。因此，我們決定將價格略低於通膨水平，以確保價格價值觀念與市場預期保持平衡。

Last year, as you recall, KPN took a price increase on their back book and lowered their front book. So some of this is signaling two perhaps. We've always taken price increases on both front book and back book. So hopefully, there's a more rational market here.

大家應該還記得，去年，KPN 提高了後端帳簿的價格，同時降低了前端帳簿的價格。因此，這可能預示著兩個。我們一直以來都會提高封面書和封底書的價格。所以希望這裡的市場能更加理性。

Thank you.

謝謝。

James Ratzer, New Street Research.

詹姆斯‧拉澤 (James Ratzer)，New Street Research。

Yes, thank you very much indeed for taking the question. So if it is possible, just go back to talk about TalkTalk in a little bit more detail. I know you might be limited in what you can say. But are there any scenarios, you can see in which you might interest in acquiring some of the asset or the rate at which customer base is declining at the moment just makes it kind of too risky to get involved like the asset you think you see now that when it comes to closing. [Anything you're able to add] on that particularly would be really interesting.

是的，非常感謝您回答這個問題。所以如果可能的話，請回去更詳細地談談 TalkTalk。我知道你能說的話可能有限。但是，是否存在這樣的情況，您可能有興趣收購部分資產，或者目前客戶群下降的速度使得介入這些資產的風險太大，就像您現在看到的資產一樣，在交易即將結束時。 [您能添加的任何內容] 尤其會非常有趣。

James, I want to make sure I heard the first part of it. I got the gist of the question around M&A but which entity are you referring to?

詹姆斯，我想確保我聽過了第一部分。我了解了有關併購的問題的要點，但是您指的是哪個實體？

TalkTalk, in particular in the UK because (technical difficulty) so I just want to get your thoughts on that, though it is too risky an asset to be looking at right now, given the rate customers are coming down?

TalkTalk，特別是在英國，因為（技術困難），所以我只是想聽聽你對此的看法，儘管考慮到客戶下降的速度，現在考慮這種資產風險太大？

Yes. No, I get you now. I just didn't hear that first part, you're coming in and out a little bit. I don't think we have anything to say about TalkTalk today. I mean we watch as others do, with great interest of what's happening across the sector in the UK, but obviously, with TalkTalk, they're competitor.

是的。不，我現在明白你了。我只是沒有聽清楚第一部分，你有點進進出出。我認為我們今天沒有什麼可談論的關於 TalkTalk。我的意思是，我們和其他人一樣，非常感興趣地觀察英國該行業的發展情況，但顯然，TalkTalk 是他們的競爭對手。

And we certainly are watching what they're doing and what they're considering doing and with their B2B, with their network, with their consumer business, it's really outside of our control. If there were opportunities, you should assume we would be looking at them but there's nothing I can say about that today.

我們當然在關注他們在做什麼以及他們考慮做什麼，而他們的B2B、他們的網路、他們的消費者業務，這些確實超出了我們的控制範圍。如果有機會，你應該假設我們會考慮它們，但今天我對此無話可說。

[Okay, thought to try and least ask that]. Thank you.

[好的，我想嘗試至少問一下這個問題]。謝謝。

Matthew Harrigan, The Benchmark Company.

馬修‧哈里根 (Matthew Harrigan)，The Benchmark Company。

Thank you. I think I'm last American [less than to draw these days]. Conceptual question really at the some various other industry organizations, I think you had some consultancies, like McKinsey really commented on how you've had trillions of dollars of equity value created in Silicon Valley and other places of telecom networks and you've really obviously borne the cost without necessarily having that much impact.

謝謝。我想我是最後一個美國人[最近幾天畫得少了]。概念性問題實際上是在其他一些行業組織中，我認為你們有一些諮詢公司，比如麥肯錫真的評論過你們如何在矽谷和其他電信網絡地方創造了數萬億美元的股權價值，而且你們顯然承擔了成本而不一定產生那麼大的影響。

Is there anything that's different about the service code that would enable you to participate better in fintech, entertainment, healthcare, et cetera? Is that like at least complementary rationale for doing this relatively complicated structure?

服務代碼有什麼不同之處，可以讓您更能參與金融科技、娛樂、醫療保健等領域？這是否至少是實現這種相對複雜結構的補充理由？

Well, possibly Matt, I mean, I think both entities NetCo and ServCo are probably better positioned to compete long term and take their fair share of that ecosystem. I mean you correctly point out that net neutrality as a whole created haves and have-nots, right? And the haves or anybody in the big tech space, selling apps and access largely for free.

嗯，可能是馬特，我的意思是，我認為 NetCo 和 ServCo 這兩個實體可能更適合長期競爭，並在該生態系統中佔據公平的份額。我的意思是，您正確地指出網路中立性作為一個整體創造了富人和窮人，對嗎？而富人或大型科技領域的任何人都在出售應用程式並提供大部分免費存取權。

And we in the infrastructure connectivity space have obviously experienced more competition, higher CapEx, and higher usage and capacity requirements. So we have some ability to pass that along to consumers, but not as much as we'd like.

在基礎設施連接領域，我們顯然經歷了更激烈的競爭、更高的資本支出以及更高的使用率和容量要求。因此，我們有能力將其傳遞給消費者，但沒有我們所希望的那麼多。

So going forward, there's a handful of things the industry is doing, network as a service. I'm sure you're following that, new products and services in the home and how we might take advantage of that. AI, which is going to give us a much stronger, some more sophisticated way to manage customers in our networks.

因此，展望未來，業界正在做一些事情，將網路作為一種服務。我相信你會專注於家居領域的新產品和服務，以及我們如何利用它們。人工智慧將為我們提供更強大、更複雜的方式來管理我們的網路中的客戶。

But the NetCo, ServCo model itself certainly should create a more agile ServCo management team and product and brand, looking at accessing the NetCo as well as perhaps other networks to try to drive services into the home and into businesses.

但NetCo、ServCo模式本身肯定應該創建一個更靈活的ServCo管理團隊、產品和品牌，考慮訪問NetCo以及其他網絡，嘗試將服務引入家庭和企業。

And the NetCo itself will become really a connectivity provider first, but also depending on who the user is, more sophisticated transport hub. So I don't think it by definition, makes it easier to ensure that the next 10 years don't look like the last 10 years.

NetCo 本身將首先真正成為一個連接提供商，但同時也取決於用戶是誰，成為更複雜的交通樞紐。因此，我認為從定義上來說，它不能更容易確保未來 10 年不會像過去 10 年。

But I think it's certainly bends that way. And I think in some instances, depending on how well we execute them, kind of the structure we put in place and the capital we have I think it could actually achieve that. But we've got things to do across the board, even in our integrated businesses to make sure that the next 10 years look different than the last 10 years. And I think the toolbox, as I said at the outset, is pretty good to make that happen.

但我認為它確實是朝那個方向彎曲的。我認為在某些情況下，這取決於我們執行得如何，我們建立的結構以及我們擁有的資本，我認為它實際上可以實現這一目標。但我們需要全方位地開展工作，甚至在綜合業務中也如此，以確保未來 10 年與過去 10 年有所不同。而且我認為，正如我在一開始所說的，這個工具箱非常適合實現這一目標。

Thanks, Mike.

謝謝，麥克。

Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. So I'd like to hand the call back to Mike Fries.

謝謝。目前沒有其他問題。因此我想把電話交還給麥克·弗里斯。

Great. Thanks, everybody, for joining. I hope you have incredible summer wherever you are, whenever you're doing, and do please put in your calendar September 9 in Zurich or September 9, wherever you'll be, be connected, of course, to our Capital Markets Day. For Sunrise, we really look forward to getting that process moving in earnest in the fall. So thanks and we'll speak to you soon. Take care.

偉大的。感謝大家的加入。我希望你們無論身在何處、無論做什麼，都能度過一個難忘的夏天。對於 Sunrise 來說，我們真誠地期待這一進程在秋季能夠真正啟動。謝謝您，我們很快就會與您聯絡。小心。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes Liberty Global's second quarter 2024 investor call. As a reminder, a replay of the call will be available in the Investor Relations section of Liberty Global's website. There, you can also find a copy of the presentation materials.

女士們、先生們，Liberty Global 2024 年第二季投資人電話會議到此結束。提醒一下，此次電話會議的重播將在 Liberty Global 網站的投資者關係部分提供。您也可以在那裡找到演示材料的副本。