Luminar Technologies Inc (LAZR) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Luminar third-quarter 2025 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 Luminar 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作人員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。（操作說明）

I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Yarden Amsalem, Head of Investor Relations.

現在我謹將會議交給今天的主講人，投資者關係主管亞登·阿姆薩勒姆。

Thank you, Josh, and welcome, everyone. With me today are Paul Ricci, Luminar's Chief Executive Officer; and Tom Fennimore, our Chief Financial Officer. As a quick reminder, you can find the press release and presentation that accompany this call at investor.luminartech.com. In a moment, you will hear remarks from Paul and Tom, followed by a Q&A session.

謝謝你，喬希，也歡迎各位。今天陪同我出席的有 Luminar 的執行長 Paul Ricci 和財務長 Tom Fennimore。再次提醒，您可以在 investor.luminartech.com 上找到本次電話會議的新聞稿和簡報。稍後您將聽到 Paul 和 Tom 的講話，隨後是問答環節。

Before we begin the prepared remarks and Q&A, let me remind everyone that during the call, you may refer to GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. Today's discussion also contains forward-looking statements based on the environment as we see it today. And as such, it does not include risks and uncertainties. Please refer to our press release and presentation for more information on the specific risk factors that could cause actual results to differ materially.

在我們開始準備發言和問答環節之前，請允許我提醒大家，在電話會議期間，你們可能會參考 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標。今天的討論也包含基於我們目前所見環境的前瞻性陳述。因此，它不包含風險和不確定性。有關可能導致實際結果與預期結果存在重大差異的具體風險因素的更多信息，請參閱我們的新聞稿和簡報。

With that, I'd like to introduce Luminar's CEO, Paul Ricci.

接下來，我謹向大家介紹 Luminar 的執行長 Paul Ricci。

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us. This has been a pivotal and challenging quarter for Luminar, including the developments we disclosed in our 8-K a few weeks ago. We're now taking deliberate action to reposition the company, and I want to begin by addressing a few items directly.

各位下午好，感謝各位的參與。對於 Luminar 而言，這是一個至關重要且充滿挑戰的季度，其中包括我們幾週前在 8-K 文件中披露的進展。我們現在正採取有計劃的措施來重新定位公司，我想先直接談談幾個問題。

First, on our capital structure, we've entered into forbearance agreements with the majority of our secured noteholders, which run through November 24. We anticipate further extensions as we continue to negotiate with our secured noteholders towards a longer-term solution to our capital structure and liquidity needs.

首先，就我們的資本結構而言，我們已經與大多數擔保票據持有人達成了寬限協議，該協議有效期至 11 月 24 日。我們預計隨著我們繼續與擔保債券持有人協商，尋求解決資本結構和流動性需求的長期方案，還會出現進一步的延期。

During this period, our 2025 financial guidance remains suspended. We've also paused usage of our equity finance, credit, and preferred stock programs while we work toward a comprehensive solution. We may decide to resume use of these programs in the future depending on developments.

在此期間，我們2025年的財務預期仍處於暫停狀態。在我們努力尋求全面解決方案的同時，我們也暫停了股權融資、信貸和優先股計畫的使用。未來我們可能會根據事態發展決定是否恢復使用這些程序。

As previously disclosed, we've also received and are evaluating multiple preliminary proposals and indications of interest to purchase the entire company as well as certain of its assets and business lines. We have added Patricia Ferrari and Elizabeth Abrams as independent directors to support our efforts. Together, Ms. Ferrari and Ms. Abrams bring extensive experience in banking, finance, and restructuring advisory work.

正如先前披露的那樣，我們還收到了多份初步提案和收購意向書，目前正在評估中，這些提案和意向書旨在收購整個公司及其某些資產和業務線。為了支持我們的工作，我們增聘了 Patricia Ferrari 和 Elizabeth Abrams 為獨立董事。Ferrari 女士和 Abrams 女士在銀行、金融和重組諮詢工作方面擁有豐富的經驗。

In addition, this will be Tom Fennimore's final quarter with Luminar as CFO. Tom has worked tirelessly with me over the past six months and I'm appreciative of all the contributions he's made during his time here and wish him the best in his next chapter.

此外，這將是 Tom Fennimore 擔任 Luminar 財務長的最後一個季度。在過去的六個月裡，湯姆一直和我一起不懈努力，我非常感謝他在這裡期間所做的一切貢獻，並祝他在人生的下一個階段一切順利。

I also want to take a moment to welcome our new CFO, Tom Beaudoin. Tom brings more than four decades of financial and operational leadership across both public and private technology companies. Tom and I work side-by-side for many years in building Nuance, and I'm delighted to be working again with him here at Luminar.

我還要藉此機會歡迎我們的新任財務長湯姆·博杜安。Tom 在上市公司和私人科技公司擁有超過四十年的財務和營運領導經驗。多年來，我和 Tom 並肩工作，共同打造了 Nuance，我很高興能在 Luminar 再次與他共事。

On the business front, we are managing continued challenges in our automotive LiDAR business. As disclosed, the future course of our relationship with Volvo will depend on the outcome of ongoing processes. We've made a claim for damages and paused further production commitments of Iris units pending resolution. We remain in dialogue with Volvo and are hopeful we can reach an agreement on a path forward.

在業務方面，我們的汽車光達業務正面臨持續的挑戰。如同先前所揭露的，我們與沃爾沃未來的關係走向將取決於正在進行的各項進程的結果。我們已提出損害賠償請求，並暫停了 Iris 產品的進一步生產，等待問題解決。我們仍與沃爾沃保持對話，並希望能夠就未來的發展方向達成一致。

At the same time, we have advanced the strategic shift we outlined last quarter. We're pursuing non-automotive markets more deliberately in elevating the role of our LSI Photonics business where we see continued progress.

同時，我們推進了上個季度所製定的策略轉型計畫。我們正在更有意識地開拓非汽車市場，提升 LSI 光子學業務的作用，因為我們看到這項業務將持續取得進展。

Over the past several months, momentum has continued to build across both Luminar and LSI, especially in aerospace and defense, where our technology addresses mission-critical sensing and National Photonics needs. These developments reinforce our belief that this strategic direction better positions Luminar for the years ahead. I'll speak more to that progress in a moment. But first, let me turn to customer updates.

在過去的幾個月裡，Luminar 和 LSI 的發展勢頭持續增強，尤其是在航空航天和國防領域，我們的技術滿足了關鍵任務感測和國家光子學的需求。這些進展更加堅定了我們的信念，即這一戰略方向將使 Luminar 在未來幾年中佔據更有利的地位。我稍後會詳細談談這方面的進展。但首先，讓我先談談客戶最新情況。

Starting with Volvo, the uncertain status of that relationship will reduce or perhaps eliminate the expected volume and revenues from the EX90 and ES90 programs. But given the unfavorable economics of Iris sales to Volvo at these depressed volume levels, this change also will help our cash flow and gross losses. We're continuing the dialogue with Volvo and we'll provide updates when there is more to share.

以沃爾沃為例，這種關係的不確定性將減少甚至可能消除 EX90 和 ES90 項目的預期銷售和收入。但鑑於目前低迷的銷售水準下，Iris 向沃爾沃的銷售經濟效益不佳，這項變更也將有助於改善我們的現金流和減少毛虧損。我們正在繼續與沃爾沃進行對話，如有更多進展，我們將及時發布最新消息。

Regarding Mercedes, we do not anticipate further development activity under the current Halo development contract although our technology remains under evaluation for future programs. Finally, our relationship with Nissan continues to advance as we remain focused on meeting their hardware and software program milestones and delivering the quality and performance they require.

關於梅賽德斯，我們預計在目前的 Halo 開發合約下不會有進一步的開發活動，儘管我們的技術仍在評估中，可用於未來的專案。最後，隨著我們繼續專注於實現日產的硬體和軟體專案里程碑，並提供他們所需的品質和性能，我們與日產的關係也在不斷推進。

Taken together, the developments of Volvo and Mercedes reflects broader industry conditions including extended time lines for L3 ADAS program readiness and award decisions. These dynamics reinforce the direction we outlined last quarter to move more deliberately to pursue commercial markets outside of automotive, where engagement and near-term opportunities continue to grow and particularly so in aerospace and defense applications.

綜合來看，沃爾沃和梅賽德斯的發展反映了更廣泛的行業狀況，包括 L3 ADAS 項目準備和授標決定的延長時間表。這些動態強化了我們上個季度提出的方向，即更有意識地追求汽車以外的商業市場，在這些市場中，參與度和近期機會持續成長，尤其是在航空航太和國防應用領域。

Luminar now works with nearly all major developments in terrestrial off-road autonomy, including Caterpillar, where we recently shipped the first-design validation units as we progress towards start of production. We are also expanding into defense and industrial use cases. For example, Forterra, a leading autonomous mission systems company, is currently using Iris on its off-road autonomy platforms.

Luminar 目前與幾乎所有陸上越野自動駕駛領域的主要發展都有合作，包括 Caterpillar，我們最近向 Caterpillar 交付了第一批設計驗證單元，以推進生產啟動。我們也在拓展國防和工業應用領域。例如，領先的自主任務系統公司 Forterra 目前正在其越野自主平台上使用 Iris。

Our 1550-nanometer approach supports operations and conditions where stealth, detail and reliability are important. It captures a highly accurate 3D view of unstructured terrain and allow safe navigation without GPS, which is increasingly important as GPS jamming becomes more common.

我們的 1550 奈米製程可滿足對隱蔽性、細節和可靠性要求較高的操作和條件。它可以捕捉到非結構化地形的高精度 3D 視圖，並允許在沒有 GPS 的情況下進行安全導航，這在 GPS 幹擾越來越普遍的情況下變得越來越重要。

Beyond ground systems, we are seeing similar interest in aerial and marine applications. Our work with LAKE FUSION Technologies is an early example where Iris sensors are being used to help helicopter pilots identify power lines and other hazards. We're also supporting partners in marine autonomy for obstacle avoidance and precision positioning.

除了地面系統之外，我們看到人們對空中和海上應用也表現出了類似的興趣。我們與 LAKE FUSION Technologies 的合作是一個早期案例，其中虹膜感測器被用於幫助直升機飛行員識別電力線和其他危險。我們也在海洋自主系統領域為合作夥伴提供支持，以實現避障和精確定位。

Ultimately, these commercial, defense and industrial markets represent growing high-margin opportunities that validate the scalability of our technology. This connects directly to the progress we're seeing at LSI. As a reminder, LSI supplies photonics components, subsystems, and systems across aerospace, defense, industrial and medical markets, combining defense-grade reliability with chip scale innovation from concept to deployment.

最終，這些商業、國防和工業市場代表著不斷增長的高利潤機會，驗證了我們技術的可擴展性。這與我們在LSI看到的進展直接相關。再次提醒大家，LSI 為航空航太、國防、工業和醫療市場提供光子組件、子系統和系統，將國防級可靠性與從概念到部署的晶片級創新相結合。

As a trusted US supplier in export control domains, such as missile defense, quantum sensing, directed energy and optical communications, LSI is well positioned to benefit from strong tailwinds, driven by rising defense budgets, reshoring mandates, and national security priorities. Given the LSI currently represents about one-third of Luminar's annual revenue, we believe is an underrecognized element of our business.

作為美國在飛彈防禦、量子感測、定向能和光通訊等出口管制領域值得信賴的供應商，LSI 處於有利地位，能夠從國防預算成長、製造業回流政策和國家安全優先事項等強勁的順風中受益。鑑於 LSI 目前約佔 Luminar 年收入的三分之一，我們認為它是我們業務中一個被低估的組成部分。

Year to date, LSI has generated roughly $18 million in revenue, and we see a path for strong growth from here. And unlike the automotive business, which has proven to be a more unpredictable business, LSI benefits from stronger revenue visibility with a significant portion of its backlog tied to multiyear customer orders. With strong secular tailwinds, we believe LSI stands to build on this momentum over the next several years.

今年迄今為止，LSI 已創造了約 1800 萬美元的收入，我們認為未來將有強勁的成長動能。與汽車業（已被證明是一個更難以預測的行業）不同，LSI 的收入可見度更強，其大部分積壓訂單都與多年期客戶訂單相關。我們相信，在強勁的長期發展趨勢推動下，LSI 將在未來幾年繼續保持這一成長勢頭。

Before turning it over to Tom to discuss Q3 results, I'd like to discuss our organization briefly, where we are taking steps to align our cost base with our long-term goals. As previously discussed, as part of our ongoing realignment, we will reduce roughly 25% of our workforce by year-end. This was a difficult but necessary step to get the company the stability of requires. We expect a meaningful reduction in operating expense as a result of these actions beginning in 2026.

在將第三季業績報告交給 Tom 討論之前，我想簡要介紹一下我們公司的情況，我們正在採取措施使我們的成本基礎與我們的長期目標保持一致。正如之前討論過的，作為我們持續調整計劃的一部分，我們將在年底前裁減約 25% 的員工。這是艱難但必要的一步，目的是使公司獲得所需的穩定性。我們預計，從 2026 年開始，這些措施將顯著降低營運費用。

Regarding the supply chain, we are currently reviewing our arrangements with our contract manufacturing partners. This is consistent with our broader effort to rightsize our cost structure and align our supply chain strategy with a lower volume environment in the near term.

關於供應鏈方面，我們目前正在審查與合約製造合作夥伴的合作安排。這與我們為調整成本結構、使供應鏈策略適應近期低銷售環境所做的更廣泛努力是一致的。

And with that, I'll hand it off to Tom to discuss Q3 results.

接下來，我將把發言權交給湯姆，讓他來討論第三季業績。

Thank you, Paul. Revenue for the quarter came in at $18.7 million, up about 20% sequentially and 21% year over year. The increase in revenue during the quarter was primarily driven by three factors. First, we shipped roughly 5,400 Iris sensors in Q3 compared to 4,800 in Q2, with the vast majority of these shipments going to Volvo. Second, higher NRE revenue related to development work we are currently performing for our customers. And finally, a sequential increase in LSI revenue, as we've seen continued growth in defense and aerospace related spending.

謝謝你，保羅。該季度營收為 1,870 萬美元，季增約 20%，年增 21%。本季營收成長主要受三個因素驅動。首先，我們在第三季出貨了約 5,400 個虹膜感測器，而第二季出貨量為 4,800 個，其中絕大多數出貨量都銷往了沃爾沃。第二，與我們目前正在為客戶進行的開發工作相關的非經常性工程收入增加。最後，隨著國防和航空航太相關支出的持續成長，LSI 收入也實現了環比成長。

For the quarter, we reported a gross loss of negative $8.1 million on a GAAP basis and negative $7.3 million on a non-GAAP basis. Q3 gross loss improved sequentially, driven by a higher mix of NRE revenue, lower inventory purchases following the previously discussed Volvo program pause as well as a lower warranty expense. This was partially offset by higher shipment of series production sensors and unfavorable economics.

本季度，我們以 GAAP 準則報告的毛虧損為負 810 萬美元，以非 GAAP 準則報告的毛虧損為負 730 萬美元。第三季毛虧損環比改善，主要得益於非經常性工程收入佔比提高、此前討論的沃爾沃項目暫停後庫存採購減少以及保修費用降低。大量生產感測器的出貨量增加和不利的經濟情勢部分抵消了這一影響。

OpEx came in at $66.6 million on a GAAP basis and $43 million on a non-GAAP basis. Non-GAAP OpEx declined roughly 9% and $4 million relative to the prior quarter and 29% or $18 million relative to Q3 of last year. This decrease was driven primarily by lower R&D spend and continued progress on our cost actions. We ended the quarter with $74 million in cash and marketable securities, in line with the preliminary results shared a few weeks ago.

以 GAAP 準則計算，營運支出為 6,660 萬美元；以非 GAAP 準則計算，營運支出為 4,300 萬美元。與上一季相比，非GAAP營運支出下降了約9%，即400萬美元；與去年第三季相比，下降了29%，即1,800萬美元。這一下降主要是由於研發支出減少以及我們在成本控制方面持續取得進展。本季末，我們持有現金和有價證券7400萬美元，與幾週前公佈的初步結果一致。

As Paul noted, we have paused usage of our equity financing in preferred stock programs while we work towards a longer-term solution for our capital structure and liquidity needs. We may decide to resume use of these programs in the future depending upon developments. We are also actively evaluating multiple non-binding preliminary proposals and indications of interest to purchase parts up or the entirety of the company. We will share updates on this when appropriate.

正如保羅所指出的，在我們努力尋求更長期的資本結構和流動性需求解決方案的同時，我們已經暫停了在優先股計劃中使用股權融資。未來我們可能會根據事態發展決定是否恢復使用這些程序。我們目前也積極評估多項不具約束力的初步提案和收購意向，以期收購該公司部分或全部股份。我們會適時分享最新進展。

Our change in Q3 was negative $34 million, above the $31 million level from Q1. This was driven by lower proceeds from our equity financing program. Free cash flow for the quarter was roughly negative $48.5 million, lower than the $53.8 million in Q2 and significantly below the $58.4 million from a year ago.

第三季虧損 3,400 萬美元，高於第一季的 3,100 萬美元。這是由於我們的股權融資計畫收益減少所致。本季自由現金流約為負 4,850 萬美元，低於第二季的 5,380 萬美元，遠低於去年同期的 5,840 萬美元。

I'll now turn it back to Paul for closing remarks.

現在我把發言權交還給保羅，請他作總結發言。

While this is undoubtedly a challenging period, we're approaching it with disciplined transparency and focus. We're deeply grateful to our employees, customers, and partners for their continued commitment and trust as we navigate this transition. And we'll now take your questions.

雖然這無疑是一個充滿挑戰的時期，但我們正以嚴謹的透明度和專注的態度來應對。我們衷心感謝員工、客戶和合作夥伴在我們轉型過程中給予的持續支持和信任。現在我們來回答大家的問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Winnie Dong, Deutsche Bank.

Winnie Dong，德意志銀行。

I was wondering if you can provide maybe a preliminary update on the direction of the strategic actions going forward. In the prepared remarks, it was said that you're evaluating potential to sale or partial sale of the company. Just wondering if there is any preliminary indication of interest and what you guys might be leaning forward?

我想請問您能否就未來的策略行動方向提供一些初步的最新資訊？在事先準備好的演講稿中提到，您正在評估公司出售或部分出售的可能性。想問大家是否有任何初步的意向，以及你們比較傾向於哪個方向發展？

Yes. As we -- as I did comment in -- my moments ago, we have had interest in assets, business lines and in fact, the entire company, and we're in the process of evaluating those as well as other financing interest in the company.

是的。正如我剛才所說，我們對公司的資產、業務線，甚至整個公司都表現出了興趣，我們正在評估這些資產以及對公司的其他融資興趣。

Okay. That's helpful. And then maybe in the meantime, in terms of your next-gen product development, is that put on hold? Or is that still behind you scenes like still progressing?

好的。那很有幫助。那麼，在此期間，你們的下一代產品開發是否會被擱置？或者說，那還在幕後進行，還在推進中？

No, it has not been put on hold. We've maintain critical engineering and related resources necessary to pursue the Halo architecture, which we've talked about in some detail in previous quarters. And that work continues unabated.

不，它並沒有被擱置。我們保留了推進 Halo 架構所需的關鍵工程和相關資源，我們在先前的幾季中已經詳細討論過該架構。這項工作仍在繼續，絲毫沒有減弱的跡象。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Jash Patwa, JPMorgan Chase.

Jash Patwa，摩根大通。

I wanted to start with LSI. Could you maybe give us a sense of the size of the business, the intellectual property portfolio, and the current momentum you're seeing with customers? I understand that LSI is the result of a series of acquisitions over the years. So I appreciate your perspective on how you think about the intrinsic value of that segment? And I have a follow-up.

我想先從LSI入手。能否請您介紹一下貴公司的業務規模、智慧財產權組合以及目前客戶的成長動能？據我了解，LSI 是多年來一系列收購的結果。我很欣賞您對該細分市場內在價值的看法？我還有一個後續問題。

Well, I, earlier in my comments, gave a little bit of indication of revenues year to date in LSI. Other than that, I can't comment terribly on the size, too much on the size. It is a growing business. It has deep technologies in various areas of Photonics that I mentioned in my comments. Those range from medical applications to industrial applications to military and defense applications.

嗯，我在前面的評論中已經稍微提到了LSI今年迄今為止的收入狀況。除此之外，我對尺寸方面沒什麼特別想說的。這是一個正在蓬勃發展的行業。它擁有我在評論中提到的光子學各個領域的深厚技術。這些應用領域涵蓋醫療、工業、軍事和國防等各個面向。

As I've indicated previously and again today, we think it's an under-recognized asset and kind of business line in our company. And we're doing the things necessary to accelerate growth in that business. And there has been, as I've mentioned, strategic interest in that business as well.

正如我之前和今天再次指出的那樣，我們認為這是我們公司一項被低估的資產和業務線。我們正在採取必要措施來加速該業務的成長。正如我之前提到的，也有策略投資者對這項業務表現出濃厚的興趣。

Appreciate it. As a follow-up, while we appreciate all the detail on your automaker partnerships, I was hoping you could also share any updates on your relationships with platform partners like NVIDIA. Is there a continued engagement on that front, especially in light of several major automakers recently announcing their L4 platforms in collaboration with these platform players?

謝謝。作為後續跟進，雖然我們很感謝您提供的有關汽車製造商合作關係的詳細信息，但我希望您也能分享一下您與 NVIDIA 等平台合作夥伴關係的最新進展。鑑於最近幾家主要汽車製造商宣布與這些平台廠商合作開發 L4 平台，雙方是否會繼續在這一領域展開合作？

The company does continue to work with platform players. I don't have any updates on partnerships in that area today now.

該公司確實繼續與平台玩家合作。今天我還沒有關於該領域合作關係的最新消息。

This concludes the conference. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線了。