Luminar Technologies Inc (LAZR) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, everyone, to Luminar's First Quarter of 2025 business update call. My name is Aileen McAdams, and I am Luminar's Head of Investor Relations. With me today is Tom Fennimore, Luminar's Chief Financial Officer. As a reminder, this call is being recorded. You can find the press release and the presentation that accompany this call at investors.luminartech.com.

歡迎大家參加 Luminar 2025 年第一季業務更新電話會議。我叫 Aileen McAdams，是 Luminar 的投資人關係主管。今天和我一起的是 Luminar 的財務長 Tom Fennimore。提醒一下，本次通話正在錄音。您可以在 investors.luminartech.com 上找到本次電話會議的新聞稿和簡報。

In a moment, you will hear remarks from Tom, followed by a Q&A session. Before we begin the prepared remarks and then the Q&A, let me remind everyone that during the call, we may refer to GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. Today's discussion also contains forward-looking statements based on the environment as we currently see it, and as such, does include risks and uncertainties. Please refer to our press release and our presentation for more information on the specific risk factors that could cause actual results to differ materially.

稍後您將聽到湯姆的講話，然後是問答環節。在我們開始準備好的發言和問答之前，請允許我提醒大家，在電話會議中，我們可能會參考 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標。今天的討論還包含基於我們當前所見環境的前瞻性陳述，因此確實包含風險和不確定性。有關可能導致實際結果發生重大差異的具體風險因素的更多信息，請參閱我們的新聞稿和簡報。

With that, I'd like to introduce Luminar's CFO, Tom Fennimore.

接下來，我想介紹一下 Luminar 的財務長 Tom Fennimore。

Thank you, Aileen. This afternoon, before we dive into the quarterly financial results for the company, I want to take a moment to share some important updates from our Board of Directors regarding our leadership at Luminar. Some of you have likely seen the press release we issued, but in the event, you missed it, I want to recap it now. Founder, Austin Russell, the President and CEO of the company and Chairperson of the Board, will resign effective immediately following a Code of Business Conduct inquiry by the Board of Directors.

謝謝你，艾琳。今天下午，在我們深入研究公司的季度財務表現之前，我想花點時間分享董事會關於 Luminar 領導層的一些重要更新。你們中的一些人可能已經看到了我們發布的新聞稿，但如果你們錯過了，我現在想重述一下。公司創辦人、總裁兼執行長兼董事會主席 Austin Russell 將在董事會進行商業行為準則調查後立即辭職。

This matter does not impact any of the company's financial results. Mr. Russell will remain on the Board and be available to the incoming Chief Executive Officer on transition and technology matters. This decision was not made lightly. The Board recognizes the weight of this action and the impact it may have. However, the Board takes seriously its duties of oversight, accountability and commitment to Luminar's (technical difficulty) values, culture and long-term success.

該事項不會影響本公司的任何財務表現。拉塞爾先生將繼續留在董事會，並協助新任執行長處理過渡和技術事宜。這個決定並不是輕易做出的。董事會認識到此行動的重要性及其可能產生的影響。然而，董事會認真對待其監督、問責和對 Luminar 的（技術難度）價值觀、文化和長期成功的承諾的職責。

In light of this transition, we are pleased to announce that Paul Ricci has been appointed as our new CEO to be effective on or about May 21, 2025. Paul brings a wealth of experience, having previously served as Chairman and CEO of Nuance for nearly two decades. His visionary leadership and deep understanding of technology make him the ideal person to guide us in our next chapter of growth.

鑑於這一轉變，我們很高興地宣布，Paul Ricci 已被任命為我們的新首席執行官，將於 2025 年 5 月 21 日左右生效。Paul 擁有豐富的經驗，曾擔任 Nuance 董事長兼執行長近二十年。他富有遠見的領導力和對科技的深刻理解使他成為指導我們邁向下一個發展篇章的理想人選。

We understand that this news may come as a surprise. We want to assure you that the Board of Directors and the leadership team is fully committed to ensuring a smooth and successful transition. Finally, while I suspect you have a number of questions about this, we plan to let the press release speak for itself. And now let's move on to our Q1 financial and business update.

我們知道這個消息可能會讓人感到意外。我們想向您保證，董事會和領導團隊將全力致力於確保順利和成功的過渡。最後，雖然我懷疑您對此有很多疑問，但我們計劃讓新聞稿自己說話。現在讓我們來看看第一季的財務和業務更新。

As you noticed from our presentation today, we wanted to use this quarterly business update to not only run through our quarterly financial results, but also take a step back and provide a broader vision for where Luminar is headed over the next few years. One of the things that makes Luminar so unique is that our technology uses the 1550 wavelength.

正如您從我們今天的演示中註意到的那樣，我們希望利用本次季度業務更新不僅來回顧我們的季度財務業績，而且還要回顧一下未來幾年 Luminar 的發展方向，提供更廣闊的願景。Luminar 的獨特之處之一在於我們的技術採用了 1550 波長。

As compared to our competitors who use the more traditional 905 wavelength, we're able to put on average up to 17 times more photons into the environment. This gives our customers the ability to not only significantly improve the safety of their vehicles, but also operate autonomously at all speeds, including high speeds. This is something truly unique.

與使用更傳統的 905 波長的競爭對手相比，我們平均能夠向環境中發射多達 17 倍的光子。這使我們的客戶不僅能夠顯著提高車輛的安全性，而且還能在包括高速在內的所有速度下自主行駛。這確實是一件獨一無二的事。

This is also the primary reason why our OEM partners have chosen to work with us. In doing so, however, each OEM has historically asked us to use our core LiDAR technology and develop unique OEM-specific product architectures around it. Iris and Iris+ are just two examples of these highly customized design programs.

這也是我們的OEM合作夥伴選擇與我們合作的主要原因。然而，在這樣做的過程中，每個 OEM 歷來都要求我們使用我們的核心 LiDAR 技術並圍繞它開發獨特的 OEM 特定產品架構。Iris 和 Iris+ 只是這些高度客製化的設計程式的兩個例子。

Last quarter, we introduced the idea of consolidating our product portfolio and customers into a singular Luminar Halo platform in order to improve our development time and significantly reduce our development costs. This decision to move to a unified product architecture has been extremely well received by our OEM partners.

上個季度，我們提出了將我們的產品組合和客戶整合到單一的 Luminar Halo 平台的想法，以縮短我們的開發時間並顯著降低我們的開發成本。轉向統一產品架構的這項決定得到了我們 OEM 合作夥伴的熱烈歡迎。

Going forward, the core technology of our Halo platform will be largely standardized across all our customers with modest customizations. And we have a page in the slide deck to highlight four that have kind of signed on to this approach so far. This will enable us to streamline our product development efforts, improve our time to market and further reduce our cost.

展望未來，我們的 Halo 平台的核心技術將在所有客戶中實現高度標準化，並進行適度的客製化。我們在幻燈片中有一頁重點介紹了迄今為止已簽署此方法的四個機構。這將使我們能夠簡化產品開發工作，縮短產品上市時間並進一步降低成本。

As it relates to our business model beyond Luminar Halo for our next-generation products, we'll be narrowing our development efforts around our core technologies, such as the transceiver, which includes the laser, the receiver and the ASIC, the embedded software and other core components. Simultaneously, we will also be outsourcing more of the commodity components of our LiDAR, for example, like a top housing or chassis or other components to some of our key partners.

由於它與我們下一代產品超越 Luminar Halo 的商業模式有關，我們將縮小圍繞核心技術的開發力度，例如收發器（包括雷射、接收器和 ASIC）、嵌入式軟體和其他核心組件。同時，我們也將把更多的 LiDAR 商品組件（例如頂部外殼或底盤或其他組件）外包給我們的一些主要合作夥伴。

This will allow us to further streamline the company and reduce costs and get our products to the market faster. This is a continuation of efforts to rescope our company focus and right size our cost structure. We've had to make a number of tough decisions over the past year to better position our company for the future, and we will continue to do so.

這將使我們能夠進一步精簡公司、降低成本並更快地將我們的產品推向市場。這是我們重新確定公司重點和合理調整成本結構的持續努力。在過去的一年裡，我們必須做出一些艱難的決定，以便更好地為公司的未來做好準備，我們將繼續這樣做。

In the coming quarters, we will look forward to providing incremental updates on our progress with this initiative, including new and existing customer wins using the Halo platform. Now let's turn to an update on restructuring actions and our financials. Last year, we announced two major restructurings, one in April and one in September. That allowed us to significantly improve our cost structure.

在接下來的幾個季度中，我們將期待提供有關該計劃進度的增量更新，包括使用 Halo 平台贏得的新舊客戶。現在讓我們來了解一下重組行動和財務狀況的最新情況。去年，我們宣布了兩次重大重組，一次是在四月，一次是在九月。這使我們能夠顯著改善成本結構。

The key catalysts for these cost actions were the successful achievement of our Volvo launch last year and our expanded industrialization partnership with TPK. In aggregate, these actions were expected to save $120 million in cash and another $40 million in stock via stock-based compensation. We have achieved these cost saving targets.

這些成本行動的關鍵催化劑是我們去年成功推出沃爾沃以及與 TPK 擴大工業化合作關係。總體而言，這些措施預計將節省 1.2 億美元現金，並透過股票薪酬節省 4,000 萬美元股票。我們已經實現了這些節約成本的目標。

Specifically, versus a year ago, if you look at our non-GAAP OpEx, a good proxy to measure the cash savings from our restructuring actions, those have declined by about $115 million on an annualized basis. Our quarterly stock-based compensation, a good proxy for the stock savings, has declined by almost $100 million on an annualized basis.

具體來說，與一年前相比，如果你看一下我們的非 GAAP 營運支出（衡量我們重組行動所節省的現金的良好指標），以年率計算，營運支出下降了約 1.15 億美元。我們的季度股票薪酬（股票節省的良好代表）按年率計算下降了近 1 億美元。

Overall, I'm proud that we're executing on what we set out to do in reducing costs in our business and extending our financial runway. This brings me to the next topic of our capital structure. I'll start with an update on our debt profile. As a reminder, our secured debt maturing in 2028 and 2030 includes a springing maturity that requires us to reduce the outstanding face value amount of our 2026 unsecured debt below $100 million by June of next year.

總的來說，我很自豪我們正在執行我們設定的目標，降低業務成本並延長財務跑道。這讓我想到了我們的資本結構的下一個主題。我首先要介紹一下我們的債務狀況。提醒一下，我們的有擔保債務將於 2028 年和 2030 年到期，其中包括一項彈性到期日，要求我們在明年 6 月之前將 2026 年無擔保債務的未償還票面價值金額減少到 1 億美元以下。

I'm happy to report that as a result of the actions we have taken over the past several months, we now have a line of sight of reaching that goal. We have reduced the balance on the 2026 debt from $625 million in August of last year to $185 million outstanding as of today. Accordingly, we plan to continue working towards reducing this balance in the near term and doing so in a disciplined manner that does not materially impact our cash balance.

我很高興地報告，由於我們過去幾個月採取的行動，我們現在已經接近實現這一目標。我們已將 2026 年債務餘額從去年 8 月的 6.25 億美元減少到今天的 1.85 億美元。因此，我們計劃在短期內繼續努力減少這一餘額，並以不會對我們的現金餘額產生重大影響的嚴謹方式進行。

Let's now return to -- let's now turn to our Q1 financials. Revenue for the quarter came in at $18.9 million, which was down 10% year-over-year and 16% sequentially. This was consistent with the guidance we gave that revenue this quarter would be lower than Q4. On a quarter-over-quarter basis, Q1 saw growth in series production sensor sales and NRE revenue, which is offset by lower sensor sales to adjacent market customers.

現在讓我們回到——讓我們來看看我們的第一季財務狀況。本季營收為 1,890 萬美元，年減 10%，季減 16%。這與我們給出的本季營收將低於第四季的預期一致。與上一季相比，第一季批量生產感測器銷售額和 NRE 收入均有所增長，但被鄰近市場客戶的感測器銷售額下降所抵消。

More specifically, we shipped almost 6,000 sensors to customers in Q1, up approximately 50% from Q4 sequentially. The vast majority of these sensors were shipped to Volvo. For the quarter, we reported a gross loss of negative $8 million on a GAAP basis and negative $6.4 million on a non-GAAP basis, which again was in line with our guidance.

更具體地說，我們在第一季向客戶出貨了近 6,000 個感測器，比第四季環比成長約 50%。這些感測器絕大多數都運往了沃爾沃。本季度，我們報告的毛虧損（以 GAAP 計算）為負 800 萬美元，（以非 GAAP 計算）為負 640 萬美元，這再次符合我們的預期。

This was driven by continued growth in series production sensor sales at unfavorable unit economics, which was partially offset by returns from some of our cost-saving actions. We also incurred approximately $1 million of tariff charges in our COGS during Q1, and we are very close to resolution with our key customers to mitigate our tariff exposure for the rest of the year.

這是由於大量生產感測器的銷售在單位經濟效益不佳的情況下持續成長所致，但我們採取的一些成本節約措施帶來的回報部分抵消了這一增長。我們在第一季也產生了約 100 萬美元的關稅費用，我們非常接近與主要客戶達成解決方案，以減輕我們在今年剩餘時間內的關稅風險。

OpEx came in at $64 million on a GAAP basis and $45 million on a non-GAAP basis. On a non-GAAP basis, OpEx was down nearly $10 million quarter-over-quarter, a direct result of the cost reduction actions we announced last year. Moving on to our cash and balance sheet. We ended Q1 with $188 million in cash and liquidity, which includes $138 million in cash and marketable securities and our undrawn $50 million line of credit.

根據 GAAP 計算，營運支出為 6,400 萬美元，根據非 GAAP 計算，營運支出為 4,500 萬美元。以非公認會計準則計算，營運支出較上季下降近 1,000 萬美元，這是我們去年宣布的成本削減措施的直接結果。繼續討論我們的現金和資產負債表。我們在第一季結束時擁有 1.88 億美元的現金和流動資金，其中包括 1.38 億美元的現金和有價證券以及未提取的 5000 萬美元信用額度。

Including $209 million available in our equity financing program, our total access to liquidity stands at nearly $400 million. Our change in cash in Q4 was negative $44 million, which was higher than the negative $16 million level in Q4. This was entirely driven by activity in our equity financing program, specifically raising $48 million in Q4 of last year versus a negligible amount in Q1.

包括我們股權融資計畫中可用的 2.09 億美元在內，我們的總流動資金已接近 4 億美元。我們第四季的現金變動為負 4,400 萬美元，高於第四季的負 1,600 萬美元。這完全是由我們的股權融資計畫活動所推動的，具體來說，去年第四季籌集了 4,800 萬美元，而第一季的金額卻微不足道。

Since we didn't file our 10-K until late March, we had limited time in Q1 to utilize our ATM facility and instead opted to equitize a portion of our 2026 convertible notes during the open period. Ultimately, while we guided to an average of -- issuing about $30 million on average per quarter under this ATM program through the remainder of this year, we also indicated that this activity would be lumpy quarter-to-quarter.

由於我們直到 3 月底才提交 10-K 報告，因此我們在第一季度利用 ATM 設施的時間有限，而是選擇在開放期間將部分 2026 年可轉換票據公平化。最終，雖然我們預計在今年剩餘時間內，該 ATM 計劃平均每季發行約 3,000 萬美元，但我們也表示，這項活動在各個季度之間會有所波動。

Free cash flow for this quarter was roughly $44 million, representing an $18 million improvement from the $62 million used in Q4. Driven by our cost reduction actions and working capital swings, this marks the lowest level of quarterly cash burn since 2022 as the benefits of our ongoing cost reduction actions continue to manifest.

本季的自由現金流約為 4,400 萬美元，比第四季的 6,200 萬美元增加了 1,800 萬美元。受成本削減措施和營運資金波動的推動，這標誌著自 2022 年以來季度現金消耗的最低水平，因為我們持續的成本削減措施帶來的好處繼續顯現。

Moving on to 2025 guidance. Despite all of the macro uncertainty, we are reiterating our 2025 revenue and other guidance and improving our year-end OpEx target. For 2025, we continue to expect full year revenue growth in the range of 10% to 20%. As a reminder, our revenue and sensors shipped guidance for this year incorporated a more conservative production outlook relative to our customers and third-party guidance, specifically a 50% haircut to IHS forecasts at the time.

繼續推進 2025 年指導。儘管存在種種宏觀不確定性，我們仍重申 2025 年收入和其他指導，並提高年底營運支出目標。對於 2025 年，我們繼續預計全年營收成長率將在 10% 至 20% 之間。提醒一下，我們今年的收入和感測器出貨量指引相對於我們的客戶和第三方指引而言採用了更為保守的生產前景，具體來說是比當時 IHS 的預測減少了 50%。

So while the volatile geopolitical and macroenvironment presents risk, we believe that our conservative approach provides a sufficient buffer to reiterate our guidance at this time, but this buffer is less than what it was at the beginning of the year. For Q2, we expect revenue will decline slightly quarter-over-quarter, driven by lower sequential sensor sales to non-series production customers.

因此，儘管動盪的地緣政治和宏觀環境帶來風險，但我們認為，我們的保守方法提供了足夠的緩衝來重申我們目前的指導，但這種緩衝比年初的緩衝要少。對於第二季度，我們預計營收將比上一季度略有下降，原因是非大量生產客戶的感測器銷售量連續下降。

We continue to expect to generate a non-GAAP gross loss of negative $5 million to negative $10 million per quarter on average through the remainder of this year. One element of our guidance that we are revising positively is OpEx. Given the progress we demonstrated on non-GAAP OpEx in Q1 as well as actions to be implemented as part of our unified product architecture strategy discussed earlier. We are revising our year-end quarterly OpEx outlook from the mid- to high $30 million range to now the low $30 million range.

我們預計今年剩餘時間內平均每季的非公認會計準則毛虧損將為負 500 萬美元至負 1,000 萬美元。我們正在積極修改的指導方針中的一個要素是營運支出。鑑於我們在第一季非 GAAP 營運支出方面取得的進展，以及作為我們先前討論的統一產品架構策略的一部分將要實施的行動。我們正在將年底季度營運支出預期從 3,000 萬美元中高點調整為 3,000 萬美元低點。

We continue to expect to end the year with greater than $150 million of cash and liquidity, which includes cash, marketable securities and our $50 million undrawn line of credit. As I communicated in prior quarters, we believe our current cash and liquidity position as well as access to additional liquidity provides us with sufficient runway through at least the end of next year.

我們仍然預計到今年年底我們將擁有超過 1.5 億美元的現金和流動資金，其中包括現金、有價證券和 5000 萬美元未提取的信用額度。正如我在前幾個季度所傳達的那樣，我們相信我們目前的現金和流動性狀況以及獲得額外流動性的管道為我們提供了至少到明年年底的足夠支撐。

I've also mentioned in the past, we may require approximately up to $100 million in additional capital to reach profitability, and we remain focused on aggressively executing our cost reduction plan and streamlining our business to lower any additional funding requirement. Finally, I wanted to make everyone aware that we are going to file an extension for our 10-Q for the quarter.

我過去也提到過，我們可能需要大約 1 億美元的額外資本才能實現盈利，我們仍然專注於積極執行我們的成本削減計劃並精簡我們的業務以降低任何額外的資金需求。最後，我想讓大家知道，我們將為本季的 10-Q 提交延期申請。

This concludes our prepared remarks, and I will hand it back over to Aileen for Q&A on the business and financial update. While I understand there's interest in the leadership transition, and I appreciate the question, we won't be discussing that topic further on today's call other than what was disclosed in the press release and 8-K.

我們的準備好的演講到此結束，我將把它交還給艾琳，讓她就業務和財務更新進行問答。雖然我理解大家對領導層過渡感興趣，而且我很感謝這個問題，但除了新聞稿和 8-K 中披露的內容外，我們不會在今天的電話會議上進一步討論這個主題。

For today, we're focused on the Q1 financial results and business update and happy to take questions on those topics. In the near future, we hope to have another business update call with Paul Ricci to go into more detail on some of the actions we talked about today. Over to you, Aileen, for Q&A.

今天，我們將重點放在第一季的財務表現和業務更新，並很高興回答有關這些主題的問題。在不久的將來，我們希望與 Paul Ricci 進行另一次業務更新電話會議，以更詳細地討論我們今天談到的一些行動。接下來輪到你了，艾琳，進行問答。

(Operator Instructions). Jash Patwa, JPMorgan.

（操作員指令）。摩根大通的 Jash Patwa。

Maybe just starting off with the unified product architecture. Curious if collaborating on a unified product architecture with select OEMs limits your ability to secure business with other automakers in any way? Would other automakers be willing to adopt and align with this unified standard? And just along those lines, if you could draw parallels to another vehicle component or technology that has evolved in a similar manner, that would be very helpful. And I have a follow-up.

也許只是從統一的產品架構開始。好奇與選定的 OEM 合作開發統一的產品架構是否會以某種方式限制您與其他汽車製造商開展業務的能力？其他汽車製造商是否願意採用並遵守此統一標準？並且沿著這個思路，如果您可以將其與以類似方式發展的另一個車輛部件或技術進行比較，那將會非常有幫助。我還有一個後續問題。

Sure. The short answer to your question is we don't believe so. We've been working with our current customers as well as most of the major leading automakers over the last several years. We understand their spec requirements. One of the benefits of operating at 1550 and having a lot more photons you can distribute. We really designed Halo to meet what we believe are going to be practically all the specs of the automotive companies.

當然。對於你的問題，簡短的回答是，我們不這麼認為。過去幾年來，我們一直與現有客戶以及大多數主要領先的汽車製造商合作。我們了解他們的規格要求。在 1550 下操作的好處之一是可以分配更多的光子。我們設計 Halo 確實是為了滿足我們認為的幾乎所有汽車公司的規格。

Now, look, if there does become, I would say, some modification more than we would want that we need to make at the time, we'll assess it at that time. We'll look at the ROI of what that business is relative to the incremental investment. We've kind of shown in the past that if that equation doesn't make sense, we will walk away. And so I would say for the business we want, we think Halo will be good enough and meet almost all the specs.

現在，看看，如果確實出現了一些比我們當時想要的更多的修改，我們會在那時進行評估。我們將研究該業務相對於增量投資的投資報酬率。我們過去曾表明，如果這個等式沒有意義，我們就會放棄。所以我想說，對於我們想要的業務，我們認為 Halo 足夠好並且滿足幾乎所有的規格。

And if there are modifications required, we'll do an assessment at that time. But we kind of designed in a way where we don't think there's going to be a lot of those exceptions.

如果需要修改，我們會進行評估。但我們的設計方式並不認為會出現太多例外。

And I appreciate you want to keep the discussion limited to the Q1 financials and business performance. But maybe just asking in a different way, I was just hoping if you could provide some insights into the bench strength of the operational leadership team, particularly from a technology standpoint. Who is expected to take the lead on the organization's technology road map? And do they have a different perspective compared to the prior leadership?

我很欣賞您希望將討論限制在第一季的財務和業務表現。但也許只是換一種方式問，我只是希望您能對營運領導團隊的實力提供一些見解，特別是從技術角度來看。誰有望在該組織的技術路線圖上發揮主導作用？與前領導者相比，他們的觀點是否有所不同？

Austin did a great job of building an amazing team at Luminar. That team is not changing as a result of the announcements today. Paul will be coming in here next week and take over as CEO. I'm very confident that between Luminar's team, our technology and our relationships, that we can execute on a smooth transition. All right, who we have next, Aileen?

奧斯汀在 Luminar 組建了一支出色的團隊，做出了巨大貢獻。今天的公告不會改變該團隊的陣容。保羅將於下週來這裡接任執行長一職。我非常有信心，透過 Luminar 團隊、我們的技術和我們的關係，我們可以實現平穩過渡。好的，接下來我們請誰來，艾琳？

Mark Delaney, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的馬克·德萊尼。

I guess, first on the Halo road map. On some of the prior earnings calls, you spoke about the benefits of Halo and one of them being the streamlined approach. With what you spoke about today, I'm hoping to better understand what may be changing. Is there incremental standardization that you're now planning? Or is this just a continuation of what you've spoken and sharing some of the feedback you've now had from some of the auto OEMs?

我想，首先是 Halo 路線圖。在之前的一些收益電話會議上，您談到了 Halo 的優勢，其中之一就是精簡的方法。透過您今天所談論的內容，我希望能夠更了解可能發生的變化。現在您是否正在計劃逐步實現標準化？或者這只是您所說的內容的延續，並分享您現在從一些汽車原始設備製造商那裡得到的一些反饋？

Yes. I would say when we unveiled Halo about a year ago, nothing has changed in the underlying design of Halo. We designed it with that specs in mind. What's really happened over the past few quarters is we talked about moving all our customers to Halo. We've successfully done that. And now we're kind of modifying our organization around that unified product architecture. If you go back a year ago, we were working on Halo, work on Iris.

是的。我想說，當我們大約一年前發布 Halo 時，其底層設計沒有任何改變。我們在設計時就考慮到了這些規格。過去幾季實際發生的情況是，我們討論了將所有客戶轉移到 Halo。我們已經成功地做到了這一點。現在我們正在圍繞統一的產品架構調整我們的組織。如果回顧一年前，我們正在開發 Halo，正在開發 Iris。

We're working on Iris+. We now have that. I would say there's still some finalization work we need to do on Iris that should be completed by the end of the year or substantially completed by the end of the year. So we're going to be in a position here very soon where we're kind of focusing on one product, Halo. So that allows us to align our organization around that unified product architecture.

我們正在開發 Iris+。現在我們已經擁有它了。我想說，我們還需要對 Iris 進行一些最後的完善工作，這些工作應該在今年年底前完成，或者在年底前基本完成。因此，我們很快就會集中精力於一款產品，那就是 Halo。這樣，我們就可以圍繞著統一的產品架構調整我們的組織。

That's going to allow us to move faster, more efficiently, more cost effectively. And then if you combine that with kind of the lessons that we've learned, right, as I've said in the past, when we developed Iris, we didn't do it perfectly. We've learned a lot. We're applying those lessons to Halo. And then I think once you -- we're now at the stage of what comes next after Halo.

這將使我們行動更快、更有效率、更具成本效益。如果你把它與我們學到的經驗教訓結合起來，正如我過去所說的那樣，當我們開發 Iris 時，我們做得併不完美。我們學到了很多。我們正在將這些經驗教訓運用到 Halo 中。然後我想一旦你——我們現在正處於 Halo 之後的下一步階段。

We're in the early stages of that. And what we're continually looking at is what do we Luminar do better than anybody else and that's the transceiver and the core components of that built around our LSI technology like the laser, the ASIC, the APD, that's core. Doing a lot of the embedded software, that's core. There's a few other core components.

我們正處於這一進程的早期階段。我們一直在關注的是 Luminar 比其他公司做得更好的地方，那就是收發器以及圍繞我們的 LSI 技術構建的核心組件，例如雷射、ASIC、APD，這些都是核心。做很多嵌入式軟體，這是核心。還有一些其他核心組件。

Then there's stuff where -- like the top housing, the chassis that kind of surrounds the LiDAR. There's other stuff that I would say is we can do it, but some of our partners can do it just as well or maybe even better. And so we're constantly looking at, I would say, narrowing our focus at Luminar about what we do well, do fewer things better and rely on our partners.

然後還有一些東西——比如頂部外殼，圍繞著光達的底盤。我想說的是，我們可以做到，但我們的一些合作夥伴也可以做得一樣好，甚至更好。因此，我想說，我們一直在關注 Luminar 的重點，專注於我們擅長的事情，把更少的事情做得更好，並依靠我們的伴侶。

It was very successful with what we did TPK last year on the industrialization front. That allowed us to take a ton of cost out of the business, and it also allowed us to move faster.

去年我們在TPK工業化所做的努力非常成功。這讓我們節省了大量的業務成本，也讓我們更快發展。

My follow-up question was also on Halo, but as it respects to potential new business wins. As you're having discussions with OEMs and sampling the product with them, talking about the streamlined approach. Can you help us better understand where you think you may stand about converting on potential new business awards in terms of series production?

我的後續問題也與 Halo 有關，但它與潛在的新業務勝利有關。當您與 OEM 進行討論並向他們提供產品樣品時，我們會討論簡化的方法。您能否幫助我們更了解您認為您在大量生產方面可能獲得的潛在新業務獎項的立場？

And I guess just as you're having those discussions with these customers, can you just help us understand who is managing that? Was that Austin, was that other people? And any kind of business implications with Halo that we should be thinking of with the transition?

我想，正如您與這些客戶進行討論一樣，您能否幫助我們了解誰在管理這些事情？那是奧斯汀嗎？還是其他人？在轉型過程中，我們應該考慮 Halo 會受到哪些商業影響？

Yes. As I mentioned before, Mark, we have a deep and great team here at Luminar. We cover our customers up and down the organization, from the engineering teams that work on the business at our customers on a day-to-day basis, all the way to the top at the C-level exec. We are confident that we're going to be able to manage our customers through this transition. And ultimately, the quality of our team and our technology and our products will speak for itself.

是的。正如我之前提到的，馬克，Luminar 擁有一支強大、優秀的團隊。我們涵蓋客戶整個組織，從日常為客戶開展業務的工程團隊，一直到最高級的高階主管。我們有信心，能夠順利度過這段過渡期，更好地管理我們的客戶。最終，我們團隊、技術和產品的品質將不言而喻。

So I'm not personally worried about that there. What I would say on Halo, we have multiple development contracts on Halo now with multiple customers. We are getting to the point now where we're going to be start delivering advanced prototypes. And once those advanced prototypes do what they're supposed to do, we're confident that those are going to be converted into series production contracts, hopefully sometime here in the near future.

所以我個人並不擔心這一點。關於 Halo 我想說的是，我們目前與多個客戶簽訂了 Halo 的多個開發合約。我們現在即將開始交付先進的原型。一旦這些先進的原型完成了它們應該做的事情，我們相信它們將會轉化為批量生產合同，希望在不久的將來。

John Babcock, Bank of America.

美國銀行的約翰·巴布科克。

I guess, first of all, I was wondering if there are any changes to discuss in terms of developments with customers, anything new to announce there? And then also just back quickly to that Halo development, if you could also just talk about when you expect most of the investment in the product development to be completed with Halo?

我想，首先，我想知道在與客戶的發展方面是否有任何變化需要討論，有什麼新消息可以宣布嗎？然後我們再快速回顧一下 Halo 的開發，您能否談談您預計 Halo 產品開發的大部分投資何時能夠完成？

We're in the middle innings, I would say, of the investment in Halo. We've already made a good chunk. We have some more to do. And so middle innings, I think, was the best way where we described on Halo development. And like, look, we're continuing to move the ball down the field with our customers on Halo and doing that development work.

我想說，我們對 Halo 的投資正處於中期。我們已經取得了很大進展。我們還有一些事情要做。所以我認為中間局是我們描述 Halo 開發的最佳方式。就像，你看，我們正在繼續與 Halo 的客戶一起推動這項進程並進行開發工作。

And those are going to convert to series production contracts if we continue to execute at some point in the future here. I've kind of given up guessing when those dates are exactly going to be. But as I said, we're making good progress in moving the ball down the field.

如果我們在未來某個時候繼續執行，這些將轉化為大量生產合約。我已經有點放棄猜測這些日期的具體時間了。但正如我所說，我們在推進球方面取得了良好的進展。

And launch remains, -- launch timing remains largely unchanged at this point?

且發射時間保持不變－目前發射時間基本上保持不變？

We're looking to launch this somewhere around end of '26, early '27. We've actually had a customer that pulled in one of their timelines there, and the team is working around the clock to accommodate that.

我們希望在 26 年底或 27 年初左右推出該產品。事實上，我們已經有一位客戶在那裡拉取了他們的一個時間表，團隊正在日以繼夜地工作以適應這一點。

And then just last question. If you could just talk about what's driving the improvement in your operating expense guidance, and that's all I have for you.

接下來是最後一個問題。如果您能談談是什麼推動了您的營運費用指導的改善，那麼這就是我能告訴您的全部內容了。

It's the actions we talked about last year being fully reflected in the P&L.

這是我們去年談到的行動，完全反映在損益表上。

Winnie Dong, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的 Winnie Dong。

Just maybe a quick follow-up to that last question. I do see that the OpEx guide is lower. Just curious if there is any sort of additional cost reduction actions that taken place to achieve this versus the previous guide? And then as we look beyond this year, just curious how you think about costs as you expand the Halo unified architecture and then grow customer base from there. Maybe beyond this year?

也許只是對最後一個問題的快速跟進。我確實看到營運支出指南較低。只是好奇，與之前的指南相比，是否採取了任何額外的成本削減措施來實現這一目標？然後，當我們展望今年之後，我很好奇您在擴展 Halo 統一架構並從那裡擴大客戶群時如何考慮成本。也許今年以後？

Sure. Yes. So our quarterly OpEx on a non-GAAP basis for this past quarter was $45 million. Our target for the end of the year is in the low 30s. We have -- clearly, we're going to need to take some actions. We have all of them identified, and we've already started to implement them to get them there. So yes, there will be additional cost actions identified executing upon them.

當然。是的。因此，我們上一季的非 GAAP 營運支出為 4,500 萬美元。我們今年底的目標是 30 出頭。顯然，我們需要採取一些行動。我們已經確定了所有目標，並已開始實施以實現這些目標。是的，將會有額外的成本行動被確定並執行。

In terms of incremental investments in Halo, I think the good thing in there is the -- yes, we're -- as I mentioned before, we're kind of through the middle innings of Halo investment. So there are some additional investments that we continue to make. But at the same time, we've kind of stopped work on Iris+. That will start help over the next few quarters.

就 Halo 的增量投資而言，我認為其中的好處是——是的，正如我之前提到的，我們正處於 Halo 投資的中期。因此，我們會繼續進行一些額外投資。但同時，我們已經停止了 Iris+ 的研發工作。這將在接下來的幾個季度開始提供幫助。

And then we're kind of ramping down the work that needs to be done on Iris. And so any, I would say, incremental investments we need to make in Halo relative to the current run rate for Q1 isn't going to be as big as kind of like the wind down of -- the work on Iris, Iris+ as well as the other cost actions that we've identified.

然後，我們正在逐步完成 Iris 需要完成的工作。因此，我想說，相對於第一季的當前運行率，我們需要對 Halo 進行的任何增量投資都不會像 Iris、Iris+ 以及我們已經確定的其他成本行動那樣大。

And then my follow-up is on just one particular customer, right? I think Nissan, you may have heard through media that's going through some of its own challenges. We saw some headlines on reducing workforce with the recent management change there. I'm just curious to hear if this impacts your conversation with them, if at all in terms of their conversion to Halo future business opportunities?

那麼我的跟進就只針對一位特定的客戶，對嗎？您可能已經透過媒體聽說過，日產正在經歷一些自身的挑戰。我們看到了一些有關最近管理層變動導致裁員的頭條新聞。我只是好奇這是否會影響您與他們的對話，是否會影響他們向 Halo 未來商業機會的轉變？

The short answer is no. I would say everybody in the automotive industry is kind of going through what Nissan is going through, what Luminar is going through, right? It's kind of tough times with the current macroeconomic environment as well as the geopolitical uncertainty. The good thing about a company like Nissan is, they're committed to new technologies and making their vehicles safer. And that commitment is at the peak of the cycle and at the trough of the cycle. So we haven't seen any change there in Nissan's development efforts around Halo.

簡短的回答是「否」。我想說，汽車行業的每個人都在經歷日產和 Luminar 所經歷的一切，對吧？當前的宏觀經濟環境以及地緣政治的不確定性，讓我們處在一個艱難時期。日產這樣的公司的優點在於，他們致力於新技術並使其車輛更安全。這種承諾處於週期的頂峰和低谷。因此，我們尚未看到日產在 Halo 方面的開發工作有任何變化。

I have one quick follow-up, if that's okay. Just on tariffs, I know you mentioned you're talking to customers on recoveries. Can you just maybe help us size the impact? And then if there's any sort of…

如果可以的話，我還有一個快速的後續問題。就關稅而言，我知道您提到您正在與客戶討論復甦問題。您能幫我們評估一下其影響嗎？然後如果有任何…

We didn't say recoveries. I mean, if you kind of -- look, I said we -- for Q1, we had about $1 million a month or $1 million tariff impact and then tariffs went in, in March. So you can kind of extrapolate from there. It isn't -- one solution is recovery. I think like a lot of the rest of the world, as we become tariff experts over the last 30, 60 days, we found some clever ways working real time with our customers to mitigate the tariff expense for, I would say, all parties. And so we're in the process of implementing that solution.

我們沒有說恢復。我的意思是，如果你看，我說過，對於第一季度，我們每月大約有 100 萬美元或 100 萬美元的關稅影響，然後關稅在 3 月開始徵收。所以你可以從那裡進行推論。事實並非如此——一個解決方案就是恢復。我認為，就像世界上許多其他國家一樣，隨著我們在過去 30 到 60 天裡成為關稅專家，我們找到了一些巧妙的方法，與我們的客戶即時合作，以減輕各方的關稅費用。因此，我們正在實施該解決方案。

And once that solution is implemented, I don't expect to pay a material amount of tariffs for the remainder of the year, barring any changes which have happened frequently over the last couple of months. Who do we have next, Aileen?

一旦解決方案實施，我預計今年剩餘時間內無需支付大量關稅，除非過去幾個月頻繁發生任何變化。接下來我們請到的是誰，艾琳？

Richard Shannon, Craig-Hallum.

理查德·香農，克雷格·哈勒姆。

I'm coming in with some other calls and callbacks here. So I'm not sure if you've touched on, apologies if you have. But I think I heard some comment from you about gross profit outlook here or being in a gross loss position, I think, throughout the rest of the year. Maybe you can just discuss briefly the dynamics under which we get that to a positive thing. Is that a result of volumes and/or cost reductions that may occur here? Just help us kind of lay that qualitatively out.

我來這裡是為了接聽其他一些電話和回撥電話。所以我不確定您是否提到過，如果有的話，請原諒。但我認為我聽到了您關於今年剩餘時間的毛利前景或毛虧損狀況的一些評論。也許您可以簡單討論一下我們將其轉化為積極成果的動力。這是產量和/或成本降低的結果嗎？只是幫助我們定性地闡述這一點。

Yes. And we talked about this at our year-end call in March, so this isn't, I would say, new information. Because the volumes for Iris are lower than expected, I would say we're struggling to kind of get those -- the unit economics into the positive territory where they need to be to I would say, have recurring positive gross margin. We have been able to get to gross margin on a quarterly basis like we did this past quarter.

是的。我們在三月的年終電話會議上討論過這個問題，所以我認為這並不是新的訊息。由於 Iris 的銷售量低於預期，我想說我們正在努力使單位經濟效益進入正值區域，以便獲得經常性的正毛利率。我們已經能夠像上個季度一樣按季度獲得毛利率。

What we need is a large amount of sales typically to the adjacent markets or non-automotive customers where the ASPs are kind of multiples of where we've seen there. Yes, higher volume will help because that brings down our sensor costs, getting more adjacent market sales at higher SAPs and thus better sensor economics helps as well. Those tend to be lumpy and more predictable.

我們需要的是大量的銷售，通常是針對相鄰市場或非汽車客戶，這些市場的平均售價是我們在那裡看到的數倍。是的，更高的銷售量會有所幫助，因為這會降低我們的感測器成本，以更高的 SAP 獲得更多的鄰近市場銷售，從而更好的感測器經濟性也會有所幫助。這些往往比較粗糙且更可預測。

So I don't want to rule out that you're not going to see a quarterly gross profit again with Iris. I think we're going to need to get to Halo where you kind of see that sustainable and at margin levels where I think people are going to be a lot more happy.

因此，我不想排除你不會再看到 Iris 的季度毛利的可能性。我認為我們需要達到 Halo 那樣的永續發展，而利潤水準會讓人們更加滿意。

Second question for me is, just kind of looking at the auto industry in general here, and obviously, Luminar is targeting mostly Western world OEMs. I want to get the sense of stability in autonomy roadmaps across the top 20, 30 OEMs out there, whether they're firming up or even pulling forward. I think, -- I heard you mention in a previous answer about maybe a pull forward of one particular one. But just want to get a general sense of whether we're seeing pushouts and uncertainty or we seeing stabilization or even schedules firming up.

對我來說，第二個問題是，從整體來看汽車產業，顯然，Luminar 的目標客戶主要是西方世界的原始設備製造商 (OEM)。我希望了解全球排名前 20 到 30 的原始設備製造商的自主路線圖的穩定性，無論它們是在鞏固還是向前邁進。我認為——我聽到您在先前的回答中提到過，也許可以提前考慮某個特定的問題。但我們只是想大致了解一下，我們是否看到了延遲和不確定性，或者我們是否看到了穩定，甚至是時間表是否確定。

Yes. It's a great question, Richard. I would say over the last couple of years, we've seen pushouts almost across the Board for a variety of reasons that we talked about in the past. I've seen some early signs, one or two in particular, of push-ins over the last few months. But I would say I haven't seen enough data yet where I would say that's a trend. I would say it's more light at the end of the tunnel. So there are some encouraging signs, but I wouldn't get too excited just yet.

是的。這是一個很好的問題，理查德。我想說，在過去的幾年裡，我們看到幾乎所有董事會都因為過去討論過的各種原因而遭到罷免。在過去的幾個月裡，我已經看到了一些早期跡象，特別是一兩個推入的跡象。但我想說的是，我還沒有看到足夠的數據來證明這是一種趨勢。我想說隧道盡頭更光明。因此，有一些令人鼓舞的跡象，但我現在還不會太興奮。

That marks the end of our Q&A session. I'd like to thank everyone for their patience with our webcast this quarter and for the analysts that participated in our Q&A session. We look forward to updating everyone next quarter, if not sooner. Thanks, everyone.

這標誌著我們的問答環節結束。我要感謝大家對我們本季網路廣播的耐心，也感謝參加我們問答環節的分析師。我們期待在下個季度甚至更早的時候向大家更新資訊。謝謝大家。

Thank you.

謝謝。