Ladder Capital Corp (LADR) 2026 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to Ladder Capital Corp.'s earnings call for the second quarter of 2026.

早安，歡迎參加 Ladder Capital Corp. 2026 年第二季財報電話會議。

As a reminder, today's call is being recorded. This morning, Ladder released its financial results for the quarter ended June 30, 2026. Before the call begins, I'd like to call your attention to the customary Safe Harbor disclosure in our earnings release regarding forward-looking statements.

提醒各位，今天的電話會議將進行錄音。今早，Ladder 已公布截至 2026 年 6 月 30 日止季度的財務結果。在會議開始前，請各位留意我們財報新聞稿中關於前瞻性陳述的慣例「安全港」揭露。

Today's call may include forward-looking statements and projections, and we refer you to our most recent Form 10-K for important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these statements and projections. We do not undertake any obligation to update our forward-looking statements or projections, unless required by law.

今天的電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述與預測；我們請各位參閱最新的 Form 10-K，其中載有可能導致實際結果與這些陳述及預測出現重大差異的重要因素。除非法律要求，否則我們不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述或預測的義務。

In addition, Ladder will discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures on this call, which management believes are relevant to assessing the company's financial performance. The company's presentation of this information is not intended to be considered in isolation or as a substitute for the financial information presented in accordance with GAAP.

此外，Ladder 將在本次電話會議中討論若干非 GAAP 財務衡量指標，管理層認為這些指標與評估公司財務表現相關。公司呈列此等資訊並非意圖單獨作為考量，亦不應視為 GAAP 下所呈列財務資訊的替代。

These measures are reconciled to GAAP figures in our earnings supplement presentation, which is available in the Investor Relations section of our website. We also refer you to our Form 10-K and earnings supplement presentation for definitions of certain metrics, which we may cite on today's call.

這些衡量指標已在我們的財報補充簡報中與 GAAP 數字進行調節，該簡報可於我們網站的投資人關係（Investor Relations）專區取得。我們亦請各位參閱 Form 10-K 與財報補充簡報，以了解部分指標的定義；我們可能會在今天的電話會議中引用這些指標。

At this time, I'd like to turn the call over to Ladder's President, Pamela McCormack.

現在，我想把電話會議交給 Ladder 總裁 Pamela McCormack。

Good morning, and thank you for joining us today. Ladder had a strong second quarter with robust origination activity and continued earnings growth. We generated distributable earnings of $30.8 million or $0.24 per share with modest adjusted leverage of 2.3 times. Ladder's business model is performing well, yet our stock still trades at a meaningful discount to book value, a value we feel confident in and one that has remained stable throughout the cycle.

早安，感謝各位今天加入我們。Ladder 第二季表現強勁，放款承作活動活躍，獲利持續成長。我們創造可分配盈餘 3,080 萬美元，或每股 0.24 美元，調整後槓桿倍數為 2.3 倍，屬溫和水準。Ladder 的商業模式運作良好，然而我們的股票仍以相對於帳面價值的顯著折價交易；我們對該帳面價值具信心，且其在整個景氣循環中一直維持穩定。

We have three levers that should help narrow that discount over time. Combined with a dividend yield of over 9%, closing that gap would put a total return potential above 30% from here. First, continued rotation to higher-yielding loans build earnings power. Our investment-grade balance sheet gives us the liquidity and financial flexibility to continue rotating capital into loans without compromising on credit and our stable book value reflects that discipline.

我們有三個槓桿，應可隨時間推進而縮小該折價。再加上超過 9% 的股利殖利率，若能縮小折價，從目前水準起算的總報酬潛力可超過 30%。第一，持續輪動至較高收益的放款可提升獲利能力。我們具投資級資產負債表，提供充足流動性與財務彈性，使我們能在不犧牲信用品質的前提下，持續將資本輪動投入放款；而我們穩定的帳面價值也反映了這份紀律。

Second, generating gains from sales across our multi-cylinder strategy from securities, real estate and conduit loans continues to be part of our playbook, and a source of earnings we don't think is fully reflected in our valuation today.

第二，透過我們多引擎策略在證券、不動產與通道（conduit）放款上的出售所產生的收益，仍是我們策略手冊的一部分，也是我們認為目前估值尚未充分反映的獲利來源。

And third, with our stock price currently trading below book value, every share we repurchase adds to book value per share, a lever we'll use opportunistically alongside loan growth. I'll explain how you're already seeing progress in each of these areas.

第三，由於我們目前股價低於帳面價值，每回購一股都會提高每股帳面價值；我們將在放款成長的同時，伺機運用此一槓桿。我將說明各位如何已在這三個面向看到進展。

Rotating into loans. Year-to-date, we have originated $1.2 billion in new loans with our loan portfolio growing 75% over the trailing 12 months. Balance sheet loans now make up approximately 50% of total assets, and we expect that share to continue to climb. 85% of our loan portfolio has been originated in the past two years at conservative loan to values on reset bases, resulting in recently underwritten loans, not a legacy book carried at peak cycle values.

輪動至放款。年初至今，我們已承作 12 億美元新放款，放款投資組合在過去 12 個月成長 75%。資產負債表上的放款目前約占總資產 50%，我們預期該占比將持續上升。我們放款投資組合中有 85% 於過去兩年以保守的重置基礎貸款價值比（LTV）承作，意味著這是近期核貸的放款，而非以景氣高點估值所承載的舊有資產組合。

That rotation is showing up in the results. Our net interest margin has trended higher year over year as we rotated out of lower-yielding securities and replaced legacy loans with these new recently originated ones even as all-in rates on new originations have come down. In the second quarter, we made over $800 million of new investments, over $550 million in new loans at a weighted average yield of 7.2% and $333 million in AAA investment-grade rated securities at a weighted average yield of 5.15%. These investments are predominantly floating rate, while our liability structure is largely fixed rate. So higher rates from here should benefit earnings.

這項輪動已反映在結果上。隨著我們輪出較低收益的證券，並以這些新近承作的放款取代舊有放款，即使新承作的全包利率已下滑，我們的淨利差仍呈現年增走高的趨勢。第二季，我們新增投資超過 8 億美元，其中超過 5.5 億美元為新放款，加權平均收益率 7.2%；另有 3.33 億美元為 AAA 投資級評等證券，加權平均收益率 5.15%。這些投資以浮動利率為主，而我們的負債結構大多為固定利率。因此，未來利率若走高，應有利於獲利。

Every dollar we rotate from securities yielding approximately 5% into floating rate first mortgages yielding over 7% picks up about 200 basis points of income on that capital, which would flow directly through to earnings. Notably, our second quarter loan originations included a $268 million loan for the acquisition of a Class A office and retail building in Midtown Manhattan, along with a $10 million or 6% equity co-investment in the property. The loan was made at a 62% loan to cost on a reset basis to a repeat borrower.

我們每將 1 美元資本從收益率約 5% 的證券輪動至收益率超過 7% 的浮動利率第一順位抵押貸款，該資本的收益約可增加 200 個基點，並將直接反映至盈餘。值得注意的是，我們第二季的放款承作包含一筆 2.68 億美元貸款，用於收購曼哈頓中城一棟 A 級辦公與零售大樓，並對該物業進行 1,000 萬美元（或 6%）的股權共同投資。該筆貸款以重置基礎計算之成本貸款比（loan-to-cost）為 62%，借款人為回頭客。

Origination momentum has continued into the third quarter with an active pipeline of approximately $500 million of new loans under application and in closing. With payoffs expected to stay light through year-end, we expect net portfolio growth to build each quarter for the remainder of 2026.

承作動能已延續至第三季，目前有約 5 億美元的新放款處於申請中與結案流程中的活躍案源（pipeline）。由於預期至年底前的提前清償（payoffs）仍將偏少，我們預期 2026 年剩餘期間每一季的淨投資組合規模都將持續成長。

Overall, transaction volume across the market has picked up, broadening our opportunity set as a lender, and we continue to canvas for the best risk-adjusted returns. Our primary focus remains middle market income-producing collateral, mainly multifamily and industrial.

整體而言，市場交易量已回升，擴大了我們作為放款人的機會集合；我們持續尋找最佳的風險調整後報酬。我們的主要重點仍是中型市場的收益型擔保品，主要為多戶住宅與工業類。

On office, to be clear, we're not making a directional bet on the sector. But in select markets, we're finding compelling opportunities where leasing momentum has returned and basis has reset sharply. We favor cities with low prime rates and a return to in-person work, and we underwrite each of these loans on its own reset basis, not on a view of office broadly.

就辦公室而言，說清楚，我們並未對該產業做方向性押注。但在特定市場，我們看到具吸引力的機會：租賃動能已回升，且成本基礎已大幅重置。我們偏好核心利率（prime rates）較低、且回到辦公室上班趨勢明顯的城市；我們對每一筆放款皆以其自身的重置基礎進行承作評估，而非以對整體辦公室市場的看法來承作。

Supplementing carry with gains. Gains from our multicylinder business strategy, security sales, real estate, and conduit can be lumpy from quarter to quarter, but they've been a consistent contributor to earnings by design since our founding.

以資本利得補充持有收益。來自我們多引擎業務策略的收益——包含證券出售、不動產與通道（conduit）——在季度之間可能呈現波動，但自公司創立以來，這些收益按設計即持續且穩定地貢獻盈餘。

Because of that consistency, Ladder is better evaluated year over year rather than quarter to quarter, a distinction we believe gets lost in how our stock is valued today. Our $1.9 billion securities portfolio, representing 33% of total assets is predominantly AAA rated and has served as a primary source of capital as our loan origination activity accelerates.

正因為這種一致性，評估 Ladder 更適合以年度對年度，而非季度對季度；我們認為這個差異在目前市場對我們股票的估值方式中被忽略了。我們 19 億美元的證券投資組合約占總資產 33%，以 AAA 評等為主；在我們放款承作活動加速之際，該投資組合一直是主要的資本來源。

During the quarter, we reduced our securities portfolio with net sales producing $1.8 million in gains. As we continue to fund new loans, we expect the securities portfolio share of total assets to contract further with the pace driven by loan origination activity, not a retreat from securities as an asset class.

本季度，我們透過淨出售降低證券投資組合規模，並產生 180 萬美元的處分收益。隨著我們持續為新放款提供資金，我們預期證券投資組合占總資產的比重將進一步下降；其節奏將由放款承作活動所驅動，而非代表我們撤離證券作為一項資產類別。

Our $1 billion real estate portfolio generated $18 million of net operating income in the second quarter. We also realized a $1.7 million gain to distributable earnings tied to a $13 million distribution from a cash out refinancing of a joint venture equity investment we made in a Manhattan office property in 2024. Over the course of our ownership, property occupancy increased 52% to 94%, with NOI increasing over 200% from acquisition, another example of unlocking value above our cost basis in select assets.

我們 10 億美元的不動產投資組合在第二季創造 1,800 萬美元的淨營運收入（NOI）。我們亦實現 170 萬美元計入可分配盈餘的收益，該收益與一筆 1,300 萬美元的分配有關；該分配來自我們於 2024 年在曼哈頓一項辦公物業合資股權投資所進行的現金提領再融資（cash-out refinancing）。在我們持有期間，該物業入住率由 52% 提升至 94%，NOI 較收購時增加逾 200%；這是另一個例子，顯示我們在特定資產上能解鎖高於成本基礎的價值。

This is not unique to one property. Across our real estate portfolio, we carry several assets below the value we would expect to realize, and we anticipate capturing that value as we selectively monetize positions over time, though the timing of any given sale is never guaranteed.

這並非僅限於單一物業。在我們的整體不動產投資組合中，我們有數項資產的帳面價值低於我們預期可實現的價值；我們預期將隨時間推移，透過選擇性地將持倉變現來捕捉該價值，但任何特定出售的時點從來都無法保證。

Overall, we realized approximately $4.1 million of gains this quarter across all three of our cylinders, $1.8 million from security sales, $1.7 million from our real estate equity and $600,000 from our conduit business. These gains are not always sizable individually, but this is our multicylinder business model working the way it's supposed to, earnings support that builds over the year rather than in any single quarter.

整體而言，本季我們在三個業務引擎合計實現約410萬美元的收益，其中180萬美元來自證券出售、170萬美元來自我們的不動產股權，以及60萬美元來自我們的通道業務。這些收益單筆未必都很可觀，但這正是我們多引擎商業模式按其應有方式運作的結果：形成的是全年逐步累積的獲利支撐，而非集中在單一季度。

Share repurchases. As Paul will discuss, we continue to repurchase stock at a discount to book value this quarter. Stock repurchases remain one of the more accretive uses of capital available to us today, increasing book value with every share repurchase at today's market price. In closing, we can't control our stock price, but we can control many of the inputs that help drive it.

股票回購。如Paul將會說明，本季我們持續在股價低於帳面價值時回購股票。以今日而言，股票回購仍是我們可用資本中較具增厚效益的用途之一；在當前市價下每回購一股，都會提高每股帳面價值。最後，我們無法控制股價，但我們可以控制許多有助於推動股價的投入因素。

An investment-grade capital structure and rising higher quality earnings should attract a broader base of investors, including equity REIT holders, supporting the stock performance that would move us towards that 30-plus percent total return, where shareholders have paid a yield of over 9% in the meantime.

投資級的資本結構與日益提升的高品質獲利，應可吸引更廣泛的投資人基礎，包括股權型REIT持有人，進而支撐股價表現，使我們朝向30%以上的總報酬邁進；在此期間，股東同時已獲得超過9%的殖利率。

We've built a strong track record earning the confidence of a new core base of investment-grade bondholders. When we issued our inaugural investment-grade bond, we effectively refreshed our fixed income investor base, attracting high-quality institutional buyers who bought the latter story and drove our bond spreads materially tighter.

我們已建立強勁的往績，贏得新核心投資級債券持有人的信心。當我們發行首檔投資級債券時，實質上更新了我們的固定收益投資人基礎，吸引高品質的機構買方；他們買進我們後續的故事，並使我們的債券利差明顯收窄。

Now we're turning that same attention and effort to the equity side. Over the second half of the year, we plan on taking our story directly to current and prospective shareholders, widening the audience and candidly, going to work on our stock. Looking ahead, our priorities remain unchanged: originate high-quality investments across loan securities, and real estate with a particular focus on our loan segment while maintaining the credit discipline that has always defined Ladder.

現在，我們正把同樣的關注與努力轉向股權端。在今年下半年，我們計畫直接向現有及潛在股東傳達我們的故事，擴大受眾，坦白說，也要著手改善我們的股票表現。展望未來，我們的優先事項維持不變：在貸款、證券與不動產領域發起高品質投資，並特別聚焦於貸款業務，同時維持一貫界定Ladder的信貸紀律。

Management and the Board remain Ladder's largest shareholder group, which keeps our incentive squarely aligned with yours, protecting principal, delivering an attractive return on equity and building long-term value for every shareholder alongside us. With that, I'll turn the call over to Paul.

管理團隊與董事會仍是Ladder最大的股東群體，這使我們的激勵與各位完全一致：保護本金、提供具吸引力的股東權益報酬率，並與各位股東一同為每位股東建立長期價值。接下來我把電話會議交給Paul。

Thank you, Pamela. Good morning. During the second quarter, Ladder generated distributable earnings of $30.8 million or $0.24 per share. Our investment-grade balance sheet continues to be in a position of strength, powering our multicylinder strategy. We maintain modest leverage and a highly resilient unsecured capital structure with unsecured debt representing 67% of our total debt at an attractive cost of capital.

謝謝你，Pamela。各位早安。第二季，Ladder創造可分配盈餘3,080萬美元，或每股0.24美元。我們的投資級資產負債表仍處於強勢位置，為我們的多引擎策略提供動能。我們維持適度槓桿，以及高度具韌性的無擔保資本結構；無擔保債務占我們總債務的67%，且資金成本具吸引力。

As of quarter end, our adjusted leverage ratio was 2.3 times, and we maintained robust liquidity of $1.1 billion, including same-day capacity on our unsecured revolver and cash.

截至季末，我們的調整後槓桿比率為2.3倍，並維持11億美元的充裕流動性，其中包括無擔保循環信貸額度的當日可用額度與現金。

During the second quarter, we fully drew down the $275 million unsecured term loan we closed in the first quarter, which is priced at 140 basis points over SOFR. Alongside this facility, our $1.25 billion unsecured corporate revolver continues to be a valuable asset, allowing for funding flexibility with same-day liquidity at SOFR plus 125 basis points, driving our ability to execute our capital deployment strategy.

第二季期間，我們已全數動用第一季完成的2.75億美元無擔保定期貸款，其定價為SOFR加140個基點。配合該融資，我們12.5億美元的無擔保公司循環信貸額度仍是重要資產，提供具彈性的資金調度，並以SOFR加125個基點提供當日流動性，強化我們執行資本部署策略的能力。

Our unencumbered asset pool represented 73% of total assets as of June 30. 85% of this pool is comprised of first mortgage loans, investment-grade securities and unrestricted cash. These highly liquid senior secured unencumbered assets do more than expand our liquidity. They provide a high-caliber asset base that directly supports our unsecured liability structure.

截至6月30日，我們的未抵押資產池占總資產的73%。其中85%由第一順位抵押貸款、投資級證券及不受限制現金構成。這些高流動性的優先擔保未抵押資產，不僅擴大我們的流動性。它們也提供高品質的資產基礎，直接支撐我們的無擔保負債結構。

Subsequent to quarter end, S&P revised their outlook on Ladder to positive, one step closer to investment grade and the second positive rating action S&P has taken on Ladder this year following their upgrade to BB+ in January.

在季末之後，標普（S&P）將對Ladder的展望調整為正向，距離投資級更近一步；這也是標普今年對Ladder採取的第二次正向評級行動，先前在1月已將我們上調至BB+。

The action is reflective of Ladder's strengthening balance sheet and track record of disciplined leverage, sound credit management and durable predominantly unsecured funding profile. An upgrade to investment grade from S&P would bring Ladder's credit rating in line with Moody's and Fitch, where we are already investment grade. We'd like to thank the team at S&P for their diligence and partnership throughout this process, and we look forward to continuing to build on that relationship.

此項行動反映Ladder資產負債表的持續強化，以及我們在槓桿紀律、穩健的信貸管理與以無擔保為主的耐久融資結構方面的良好往績。若標普將Ladder上調至投資級，將使我們的信用評等與穆迪（Moody's）及惠譽（Fitch）一致；我們在後兩者目前已屬投資級。我們要感謝標普團隊在此過程中的盡職調查與合作，也期待持續深化這段關係。

As of June 30, Ladder's undepreciated book value per share was $13.44, which is net of $0.37 per share of CECL reserve established. In the second quarter, we repurchased $8 million of common stock or 800,000 shares at a weighted average share price of $10.03 per share or a 25% discount to book value.

截至6月30日，Ladder每股未折舊帳面價值為13.44美元，已扣除已建立的CECL備抵0.37美元/股。第二季，我們以加權平均每股10.03美元回購800萬美元普通股（約80萬股），相當於較帳面價值折價25%。

Year-to-date in 2026, we have repurchased $21 million of our common stock or 2.1 million shares at a weighted average share price of $10.10 per share. As of June 30, $92 million remains outstanding on our stock repurchase program.

2026年迄今，我們已回購2,100萬美元普通股（約210萬股），加權平均每股回購價格為10.10美元。截至6月30日，我們的股票回購計畫尚餘9,200萬美元可用額度。

Overall, we continue to believe in our book value, and we will seek to continue to opportunistically utilize our buyback program while our stock is trading at a meaningful discount. In the second quarter, we declared a $0.23 per share dividend, which was paid on July 15, 2026. Over time, continued rotation of capital into our loan segment, along with the earnings power of our multi-cylinder strategy could be a tailwind to dividend coverage.

整體而言，我們仍對自身帳面價值具信心；在股價以顯著折價交易時，我們將尋求持續機會性地運用回購計畫。第二季，我們宣告每股0.23美元股利，並已於2026年7月15日支付。隨時間推移，持續將資本輪動至貸款業務，加上多引擎策略的獲利能力，可能成為股利覆蓋率的順風因素。

Turning to credit quality. In the second quarter, we added one loan to nonaccrual status collateralized by an office asset in Minneapolis, Minnesota with a carrying value of $13.4 million. We anticipate resolution of this loan by the fourth quarter. As of June 30, our CECL reserve remained steady at $47 million or $0.37 per share. We continue to believe this reserve level is sufficient to cover potential losses across our loan portfolio.

接著談信用品質。第二季，我們新增一筆貸款列為停止計息（nonaccrual）狀態，該貸款以明尼蘇達州明尼亞波利斯的一項辦公資產作為擔保，帳面價值為1,340萬美元。我們預期在第四季解決該筆貸款。截至6月30日，我們的CECL備抵維持在4,700萬美元或每股0.37美元。我們仍相信此備抵水準足以涵蓋我們貸款投資組合的潛在損失。

During the quarter, we resolved one loan through foreclosure, an $8 billion (sic - "$8 million") loan collateralized by an office property in Birmingham, Alabama that we now own at $30 per square foot. Our plan is to stabilize this asset and maximize value for a potential sale in the future.

本季，我們透過法拍處置解決一筆貸款，為一筆80億美元（原文如此—「800萬美元」）貸款，該貸款以阿拉巴馬州伯明罕的一處辦公物業作為擔保；我們目前以每平方英尺30美元的成本持有該資產。我們的計畫是穩定該資產，並最大化其價值，以利未來可能出售。

As of June 30, our securities portfolio totaled $1.9 billion with a weighted average yield of 5.19%. Notably, 99% of the portfolio was investment grade and 96% was AAA rated with a weighted average duration of approximately three years, underscoring its high credit quality and overall liquidity.

截至6月30日，我們的證券投資組合總額為19億美元，加權平均收益率為5.19%。值得注意的是，投資組合中99%為投資級，96%為AAA評級，加權平均存續期間約三年，凸顯其高信用品質與整體流動性。

As of quarter end, approximately 50% or $925 million of our securities portfolio remain unencumbered, complementing our $1.1 billion of same-day liquidity. We believe this combined firepower reinforces the strength of our balance sheet and positions Ladder to organically fund loan origination to drive future earnings growth.

截至季度末，我們的證券投資組合中約有 50%（或 9.25 億美元）仍為未設質押狀態，並與我們 11 億美元的當日流動性相互補強。我們相信，這股合併的火力進一步強化了我們資產負債表的實力，並使 Ladder 能夠以內生方式為貸款承作提供資金，以推動未來獲利成長。

Our $1 billion Real Estate segment continued to generate stable net operating income in the second quarter. The portfolio includes 149 net lease properties comprised primarily of investment-grade credits committed to long-term leases with an average remaining lease term of 6.2 years.

我們 10 億美元的不動產部門在第二季持續產生穩定的淨營運收入。該投資組合包含 149 項淨租賃（net lease）物業，主要由投資等級信用之承租人構成，並承諾長期租約，平均剩餘租期為 6.2 年。

For further details of our second quarter 2026 operating results, please refer to our earnings supplement and our investor presentation, both available on our website as well as our quarterly report on Form 10-Q, which we expect to file in the coming days.

如需了解我們 2026 年第二季營運結果的更多細節，請參閱我們的盈餘補充資料與投資人簡報，兩者皆可於我們網站取得；另亦請參閱我們的 Form 10-Q 季度報告，我們預期將於未來幾天內提交。

With that, I'll let Brian take it from here.

接下來我把時間交給 Brian。

Thanks, Paul. Given the quarter was more or less as expected, I won't focus too much on the numbers Paul and Pamela gave you other than to reinforce how our business plan is unfolding right on schedule. Our loan portfolio is continuing to show steady growth funded by our numerous options of unsecured liabilities and the sale and paydowns of unencumbered securities as we allocate more capital each quarter to higher-yielding products.

謝謝，Paul。鑑於本季表現大致符合預期，我不會過度著墨於 Paul 與 Pamela 提供的數字，僅想再次強調我們的商業計畫正按既定時程推進。我們的貸款投資組合持續穩健成長，資金來源包括多種無擔保負債選項，以及在我們每季將更多資本配置至較高收益產品之際，出售與償還未設質押的證券。

We expect this rotational pattern into higher-yielding first mortgage loans to continue through year-end, and we expect to issue additional unsecured corporate debt to refinance our 4.25% bonds maturing in early 2027.

我們預期這種輪動至較高收益的第一順位抵押貸款（first mortgage loans）的模式將持續至年底，並預期發行額外的無擔保公司債，以再融資我們於 2027 年初到期的 4.25% 債券。

I'd note that we don't have to issue more debt given our $1.25 billion undrawn corporate revolver, but we do expect to issue new debt over the next six months when an attractive window opens for issuance. We were pleased to hear that S&P had moved Ladder to positive outlook recently and hope that our next bond issuance will be rated investment grade by three rating agencies.

我想指出，鑑於我們有 12.5 億美元尚未動用的公司循環信用額度（corporate revolver），其實不一定需要再發債；但我們仍預期在未來六個月、當出現有利的發行窗口時發行新債。我們很高興聽到標普（S&P）近期將 Ladder 的展望調升為正向，並希望我們下一次的債券發行能獲三家評級機構評為投資等級。

We spent a lot of time and effort on our liability complex over the years and it's very rewarding to see benefits that come from our consistent and conservative approach towards liquidity, leverage and most importantly, credit.

多年來我們在負債結構上投入大量時間與心力，如今看到我們在流動性、槓桿，尤其是信用方面一貫且保守的做法所帶來的效益，令人非常欣慰。

When the office sector began to alarm investors after the pandemic, we highlighted our top five exposures in an earnings call in the fourth quarter of 2022. At the time, our largest equity exposure to office were two similarly sized portfolios, one in Florida, one in Virginia, totaling $242 million. The Virginia portfolio has since been sold at our basis, and we anticipate selling the Florida portfolio above our current basis before year-end.

疫情後辦公室（office）產業開始讓投資人感到憂心時，我們在 2022 年第四季的財報電話會議中強調了我們前五大曝險。當時，我們對辦公室的最大股權曝險為兩個規模相近的投資組合，一個在佛羅里達州、一個在維吉尼亞州，合計 2.42 億美元。維吉尼亞州的投資組合此後已按我們的成本基礎出售，而我們預期在年底前以高於目前成本基礎的價格出售佛羅里達州的投資組合。

We also had three mortgage loans secured by office properties, one in Alabama for $66 million, which has since paid off in full and two in Florida, totaling approximately $326 million. Of that, a $215 million mortgage on a Miami office building paid off in full in the second quarter of this year, and the remaining loan was paid down by approximately $30 million a while ago from $110 million to $80 million today, where we still carry it. We expect this loan to pay off by year-end also.

我們也有三筆以辦公室物業作為擔保的抵押貸款：一筆在阿拉巴馬州，金額 6,600 萬美元，已全數清償；另兩筆在佛羅里達州，合計約 3.26 億美元。其中，一筆 2.15 億美元、以邁阿密辦公大樓作為擔保的抵押貸款已於今年第二季全數清償；剩餘那筆貸款先前已償還約 3,000 萬美元，從 1.10 億美元降至目前的 8,000 萬美元，我們仍持有該筆貸款。我們也預期這筆貸款將於年底前清償。

In a sector that delivered huge losses in many companies we competed with, we now look reasonably likely to benefit from a full return of capital on our five largest office exposures as depicted four years ago. There are no guarantees this will go as planned, but is the base case scenario we are operating under. We seem to have fared better than most over this difficult time period, and this is why we have had lower charge-offs and have maintained a fairly steady book value for our share price.

在一個使許多與我們競爭的公司遭受巨大損失的產業中，就如同四年前所呈現的那樣，我們現在看起來相當有可能在前五大辦公室曝險上獲得資本全數回收的好處。並不保證一定會如計畫進行，但這是我們目前採用的基本情境（base case）。在這段艱難期間，我們似乎比多數同業表現更佳，這也是我們減損沖銷（charge-offs）較低、並維持每股帳面價值相對穩定的原因。

Our debt complex is now in place to safely support our growing asset base, and we are very pleased with the reception bond investors welcomed us with as we issued our first investment-grade corporate bond last summer. In short, they understood our conservative approach towards investing in commercial real estate, but now we have to turn our full attention to our stock price that seemingly reflects none of the differentiated features of our company.

我們的負債架構現已到位，可安全支撐我們持續成長的資產規模；而在去年夏天我們發行首檔投資等級公司債時，債券投資人給予的熱烈回應也令我們非常滿意。簡言之，他們理解我們在商用不動產投資上的保守作法；但現在我們必須把全部注意力轉向我們的股價，因為股價似乎完全未反映本公司具差異化的特點。

These features include, but are not limited to: one, an internally managed structure; two, our middle market lending preferences; three, our conservative use of leverage; four, our access to many low-cost options to finance our businesses; five, our balanced approach to risk/reward relationships when allocating capital; six, our stable book value and attractive quarterly cash dividend; and seven, an ownership structure where management and the Board are among the largest shareholders of the company.

這些特點包括但不限於：第一，內部管理架構；第二，我們偏好中型市場（middle market）放款；第三，保守使用槓桿；第四，我們可取得多種低成本的融資選項以支持各項業務；第五，在資本配置時對風險/報酬關係採取均衡作法；第六，穩定的帳面價值與具吸引力的季度現金股利；第七，管理層與董事會為公司最大股東群之一的持股結構。

We believe the equity markets incorrectly compare us to other commercial mortgage REITs based solely on what we own on the asset side of our balance sheet. It seems that common ownership of various commercial real estate-related products is where that analysis ends. We think there is much more to comparative analysis than similar asset types, and we will now work tirelessly to broaden our investor base to include investors who generally invest in lower-yielding investment-grade property REITs, regional banks and T-bills.

我們認為，股權市場僅以資產負債表資產端的持有內容為依據，將我們與其他商用抵押貸款 REIT 進行不恰當的比較。看起來，分析往往止於是否共同持有各類商用不動產相關產品。我們認為同業比較不應只看相似的資產類型；因此，我們將不懈努力擴大投資人基礎，納入那些通常投資於較低收益的投資等級物業 REIT、區域性銀行與美國國庫券（T-bills）的投資人。

We think our correct comp set should be chosen by how we finance our assets rather than by what assets we own. This is difficult, but let's remember that Ladder is the only investment-grade commercial mortgage REIT in the United States. So naturally, we will need to market our company to investors that have not seen anything quite like us in a very long time. We needed to get the liability side of Ladder squared away first, given how integral our differentiated financing methodology is to understanding the value of our shares over time.

我們認為，正確的同業比較組合應依我們如何為資產融資來選定，而非依我們持有哪些資產來選定。這並不容易，但請記住，Ladder 是美國唯一的投資等級商用抵押貸款 REIT。因此，我們自然需要向那些很久沒有見過像我們這樣公司的投資人推廣本公司。鑑於我們具差異化的融資方法對理解我們股份長期價值至關重要，我們必須先把 Ladder 的負債端安排妥當。

We are not looking to convert holders of non-investment-grade commercial mortgage REITs with tenuously high dividends into owning our stock instead. Rather, we are trying to convert holders of lower-yielding investment-grade property REITs into our 9%-plus dividend yielding investment-grade company.

我們並非要把持有非投資等級商用抵押貸款 REIT、且股利偏高但穩健性存疑的投資人，轉而改持有我們的股票。相反地，我們希望把持有較低收益之投資等級物業 REIT 的投資人，轉化為持有我們這家股利殖利率 9% 以上、同時仍屬投資等級的公司。

We are also aiming to convert a small portion of record levels of cash and T-bills and money market funds into owning our nearly 3 times higher yielding but still conservative commercial mortgage REIT that also happens to be the only investment-grade mortgage REIT in the country.

我們也希望把創紀錄水位的一小部分現金、國庫券（T-bills）與貨幣市場基金資金，轉化為持有我們這檔殖利率幾乎高出 3 倍、但仍保守的商用抵押貸款 REIT；而且我們也恰好是全國唯一的投資等級抵押貸款 REIT。

We kick off this effort starting today, and I direct your attention to just one slide in our online investor presentation, slide 5. This slide condenses my words into an easy-to-understand illustration, and I welcome comments regarding our approach to accessing investors who seek higher yields in a cash-heavy market with our one-of-a-kind vehicle. We can now take some questions.

我們從今天開始推動這項工作，並請各位留意我們線上投資人簡報中的一張投影片：第 5 頁。這張投影片把我剛才的話濃縮成一個容易理解的示意圖；也歡迎各位就我們如何在現金部位偏高的市場中，透過我們獨一無二的工具接觸追求較高收益的投資人，提出意見。我們現在可以開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Timothy D'Agostino, B. Riley.

(接線員指示) Timothy D'Agostino，B. Riley。

Hi. Thank you for taking my questions today and congrats on the quarter. It seems like the rotation from securities into loan portfolio picked up this quarter. And if I'm reading slide 9 correctly, it seems like most of the securities sold came from three- to five-year duration. And so I guess thinking about as that rotation continues through year-end, like how do you go about selecting what securities to sell? Just trying to get a better understanding of why it might be longer duration.

嗨。謝謝你們今天回答我的問題，也恭喜本季表現。看起來本季從證券輪動到貸款投資組合的速度加快了。如果我對第 9 頁投影片的理解正確，似乎出售的多數證券來自 3 到 5 年期的存續期間（duration）。因此我想問，隨著這種輪動持續到年底，你們是如何挑選要出售哪些證券的？我只是想更了解為什麼可能會偏向較長存續期間。

Hello? (technical difficulty)

喂？（技術問題）

Ladies and gentlemen, we are currently experiencing typical difficulties. Please stand by. The event will resume momentarily. Speakers, please go ahead.

各位女士、先生，我們目前遇到一些常見的技術困難。請稍候。活動將在片刻後恢復。講者請繼續。

Apologies for the disconnect, but we're back.

很抱歉剛才斷線，不過我們回來了。

Yes, we can hear you.

是的，我們聽得到你。

All right. Awesome. Yeah. So it seems like the shift from securities to the loan portfolio picked up this quarter. And it seems, if I'm reading slide 9 correctly, that most of that rotation came from longer duration securities in the three to five years. So I was just wondering, how do you think about the selection of what securities to sell as you rotate that capital?

好。太棒了。對。所以看起來本季從證券轉向貸款組合的趨勢加快了。而且如果我對投影片第9頁的解讀沒錯，這次輪動大多來自存續期間較長、約三到五年的證券。所以我想請教，你們在輪動資本時，是如何考量要賣出哪些證券的？

Sure. We -- this is Brian, by the way. We generally just group them into what is the objective of the day. And if the objective is simply to fund a new loan that we're originating and we need the cash for it, we'll generally sell something that is paid down quite a bit with a low factor because we've owned it for several years.

當然。順帶一提，我是Brian。我們通常會先把它們歸類為：當天的目標是什麼。如果目標只是為我們正在承作的新貸款提供資金、需要現金，那我們一般會賣出那些已經攤還不少、因為持有多年而因子（factor）較低的部位。

So the -- while it's quite safe, the instrument, it might be a 20% LTV across a pool of assets, it's going to pay off near term. So anything that looks like it's about to pay off is what we select first when we're just trying to generate cash to close loans.

所以——雖然這個工具本身相當安全，可能是一籃子資產平均約20% LTV——但它在短期內就會償付。因此，凡是看起來快要償付的，我們會優先選來賣出，因為我們只是想產生現金來完成放款交割。

Sometimes when markets get -- especially when rates rise a little bit, spreads can tighten. And so we did see some attractive pricing, too. And everything we sold was a floater. So when you say longer duration, it's still it's very hard to make a lot of money on a floating rate AAA because it just doesn't swing around a lot in price. But we were able to sell quite a few at a gain of about 0.5 point.

有時候市場——尤其是利率稍微上升時——利差可能會收斂。因此我們也確實看到一些有吸引力的價格。而我們賣出的全部都是浮動利率券。所以你說存續期間較長，但其實浮動利率AAA很難在價格上賺到很多，因為它的價格波動不大。不過我們仍能以大約0.5點的獲利賣出不少。

And that added, I think, $1.8 million to the quarter. So the selection criteria is usually what's about to be cash first. Secondly, what are we up and maybe feel mispriced about that we might be selling at a high price. And then last, we've never gotten to that. But if we ever got to it, we would then start taking larger positions to generate capital quickly. But the beauty of that AAA sale complex is that you get your cash 24 hours later.

我想這為本季增加了約180萬美元。所以選擇標準通常是：第一，最接近會變現（轉成現金）的先賣。第二，我們有哪些部位是上漲的、而且我們覺得可能被高估，能在較高價格賣出。最後，我們其實從未走到那一步。但如果真的走到那一步，我們才會開始賣出更大的部位以快速產生資本。不過AAA出售這個市場的好處是，你在24小時後就能拿到現金。

Okay. Great. And then I guess with that rotation, obviously, the 2 percentage points you pick up from 5% securities to 7% loans, I guess, could you help us quantify maybe the costs associated with that rotation just to get a better understanding of the process? Thank you.

了解。很好。另外我想，隨著這樣的輪動，從5%證券轉到7%貸款，顯然可以多拿到2個百分點；那你們能否協助我們量化一下這個輪動相關的成本，好讓我們更了解整個流程？謝謝。

I may be misunderstanding the question, but there is no cost to it, to my knowledge. We simply sell the securities, get cash and then fund the loan. For instance, in April, I believe we got paid off on $215 million in the Miami office loan. And I think two days later, we made another loan for $268 million. So I don't know what cost you're talking about. You mean breakage costs or hedge costs?

我可能誤解了你的問題，但就我所知，這件事沒有成本。我們只是賣出證券、拿到現金，然後撥款放貸。例如在4月，我記得我們在邁阿密辦公室那筆貸款上收回了2.15億美元的還款。我想兩天後，我們又做了另一筆2.68億美元的貸款。所以我不確定你指的是哪種成本。你是指解約成本（breakage costs）或避險成本嗎？

No, I was thinking more of like cost to originate that next loan. Obviously, you're picking up the 2%. But in the meantime, as you originate the loan and put that money to work, I was thinking how much does that cost you maybe corporate overhead origination costs that might eat into it in that quarter?

不是，我想的是像承作下一筆貸款的成本。顯然你們多拿到那2%。但在你們承作並把資金投入運用的過程中，我在想這可能會花你們多少成本，例如公司層級的管理費用、承作成本，可能在該季侵蝕部分收益？

Yeah. Given we have that large revolver that has a same-day delivery on cash, we don't travel with a lot of cash overnight anymore. We also have such low leverage that the idea of a margin call would be pretty surprising, too, because half of the assets are unencumbered completely.

是。鑑於我們有一筆大型循環信貸額度（revolver），可以當天就取得現金，我們現在不太需要隔夜持有大量現金。而且我們槓桿非常低，所以出現追繳保證金（margin call）的情況也會相當令人意外，因為有一半的資產完全沒有設定擔保。

But -- so the cost -- the opportunity cost, if you will, would be -- we take -- we come out of securities at 5%. We might stick it overnight into a money market fund at 3.75% and then whenever the loan closes. But we usually sell those securities in tandem with loans closing. We don't -- they're not random events. They take place together.

不過——所以成本——如果你說的是機會成本的話——會是：我們把資金從5%的證券撤出。可能隔夜先放到3.75%的貨幣市場基金，直到貸款完成交割。但我們通常會在貸款交割的同時賣出那些證券。我們不會——這些不是隨機事件。它們是一起發生的。

Okay. Great. Thank you so much for taking the questions today.

了解。很好。非常感謝今天回答我的問題。

John Nickodemus, BTIG.

BTIG的John Nickodemus。

Hi. Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. In the past, your team has cited concentration risk with respect to your origination decisions, including the origination year. Now that about -- if I have my numbers right, 37% of your loan book has been originated this year and 85% across 2025 and 2026. How is that average vintage setup affecting your deployment plans for the back half of the year?

嗨。早安。謝謝讓我提問。過去你們團隊在承作決策上曾提到集中度風險，包括承作年度的集中度。現在如果我數字沒算錯，你們的貸款組合約有37%是在今年承作的，而2025與2026兩年合計達85%。這樣的平均承作年份（vintage）配置，會如何影響你們今年下半年的資金部署計畫？

In very rough numbers, we try to set the company up to originate $400 million to $500 million a quarter. We're not particularly concerned if we don't originate that much nor are we concerned if we originate twice as much. But -- so the we're not going to experience a lot of paydowns after now. Most of our legacy loan portfolio has paid off. So I think we were experiencing some large payoff quarters, which I'm sure you saw.

用很粗略的數字來說，我們希望把公司設定成每季可承作4億到5億美元的規模。如果我們沒有承作到那麼多，我們不會特別擔心；如果承作到兩倍，我們也不擔心。不過——所以從現在開始，我們不會再經歷大量的提前償還（paydowns）。我們大部分的舊有貸款組合都已經償清了。所以我想我們之前確實遇到過幾個大額償還的季度，你應該也看到了。

And we were redeploying that capital and sometimes that took a little while, but we're past that point now.

而我們當時在重新部署那筆資本，有時會花一點時間，但現在已經過了那個階段。

So I would say if we're going to fund additional loans, and we will and that 85% -- that 50% of the inventory will climb over time into the loan book. But when we do that, we'll probably either access the corporate revolver that is undrawn or else we'll just sell AAA securities. I think we have about $900 million of those with no leverage on them. So it's a 24-hour turnaround for cash.

所以我會說，如果我們要再撥款更多貸款——我們會的——而那85%——那50%的庫存會隨時間逐步轉入貸款組合。但當我們這麼做時，我們可能會動用尚未提用的公司循環信貸額度，或是直接賣出AAA證券。我想我們大約有9億美元的AAA證券，而且完全沒有槓桿。所以現金周轉只要24小時。

I don't know if I'm answering you right there, but I think the message is that paydowns are slowing down dramatically, but not because of the credit reason just because they got older, and they're hitting maturities.

我不確定我是否正確回答了你的問題，但我想重點是：提前償還正在大幅放緩，但不是因為信用因素，而只是因為貸款變得更老、逐步到期了。

Got it. No, that's very helpful, Brian. Thank you. And then other one for me. During the last quarter's call, you discussed how much borrower appetite can quickly shift due to either a change in rates or macro volatility. With rates markedly up since then, volatility is still present, obviously, we've seen what's gone on the past couple of days. How have you been seeing borrowers react both late in the second quarter and now that we're into the third quarter here?

了解。不，這非常有幫助，Brian。謝謝你。然後我還有另一個問題。在上一季的電話會議中，你談到借款人意願可能會因利率變動或宏觀波動而迅速轉變。自那之後利率明顯上升，波動也仍然存在，顯然我們也看到過去幾天發生的事情。你觀察到借款人在第二季後段以及現在進入第三季後的反應如何？

Yeah. Well, higher rates will deter all but the most ardent borrowers that need to get something done. So I think the first thing you'll see with the higher rates is there's actually an initial push to close loans because those that are under application want to get them closed because they're afraid rates might move even higher. But after that, there's usually a gap and things slow down, and you'll see this in mortgage servicers and how the residential market works. But borrower appetite is very picky right now.

是的。嗯，更高的利率會讓除了最迫切、必須完成交易的借款人之外的其他人卻步。所以我認為在利率上升時，你首先會看到的是一開始會有一波推動把貸款結案，因為那些已在申請中的人想把它們結掉，擔心利率可能還會更高。但之後通常會出現一段空窗期，事情會放慢下來，你會在房貸服務商以及住宅市場的運作方式中看到這點。但目前借款人意願非常挑剔。

So it is a rather competitive environment. And they are -- at least in our floating rate book, our spreads have been rising. So that sounds like I contradicted myself. But what we're doing now that we're getting more deployed and we have less headroom to go on our maximum asset base that will optimize over time. And so as of now, we've stiffened on price and also on credit conditions.

所以這是一個相當競爭的環境。而且他們——至少在我們的浮動利率投資組合中，我們的利差一直在上升。所以聽起來好像我在自相矛盾。但我們現在的做法是，隨著我們部署得更多、在最大資產規模上可用的餘裕變少，這會隨時間逐步最佳化。因此截至目前，我們在價格以及信貸條件上都變得更嚴格。

So whereas we might have been a little aggressively competing on any given multifamily loan a year ago, we're a lot less so now. We pretty much set our prices. And if borrowers want to close, they will. What we are seeing more of, though, and I don't think it has anything to do with interest rates is there's a lot of price discovery popping up as office buildings are being sold by lenders either who had foreclosed or else who are selling the notes at a deep discount in cooperation with the next buyer and the old borrower.

所以，若是一年前我們可能在某筆多戶住宅貸款上競爭得比較積極，現在就少很多了。我們基本上把價格訂好。如果借款人想結案，他們就會結。不過我們看到更多的是——而且我不認為這和利率有關——隨著辦公大樓被放貸機構出售，出現了大量的價格發現；這些放貸機構要嘛已經止贖，要嘛與下一位買家及原借款人合作，以大幅折價出售票據。

So that's happening. But there seems to be this sense in the United States that the office market is recovering, and it is to some degree. But I would point out that it's really just two cities that are really doing well, and that's San Francisco and New York. There is -- I don't see any recovery whatsoever in Chicago or Los Angeles or Washington, D.C., where the government drives a lot of that business.

所以這正在發生。但美國似乎有一種感覺，認為辦公市場正在復甦，某種程度上確實如此。但我會指出，真正表現好的其實只有兩個城市：舊金山和紐約。至於芝加哥、洛杉磯或華盛頓特區——政府帶動了那裡很多業務——我完全看不到任何復甦。

So -- but you do see a lot of activity in those cities. And what's happening is lenders on legacy assets are throwing in the towel and they're finally they're just taking their medicine and taking the loss. So you'll see a lot of prints, but I don't want you to think there's a lot of borrowing going on there. There's -- it's usually very challenged assets that are going to take quite a while to stabilize.

所以——但你確實會在那些城市看到很多活動。而正在發生的是，持有存量資產的放貸機構正在認輸，他們終於——就是接受現實、承擔損失。所以你會看到很多成交紀錄，但我不希望你以為那裡有很多借貸正在進行。通常是非常棘手的資產，還需要相當長的時間才能穩定下來。

We're happy to do some of those with the right party who can execute their business plan. But when it's a refinance of somebody who is already having a problem and he's had a loan for five years, I would not expect much to change in the next couple of years with the same owner. So I think the long story there is the market is -- Ladder is getting fuller on its inventory. So Ladder is charging more for a smaller amount of liquidity remaining to redeploy.

我們很樂意在對的合作方、能夠執行其商業計畫的情況下做其中一些案子。但如果是替一位已經出現問題、而且他已經持有貸款五年的借款人做再融資，我不會期待在未來幾年同一個所有權人之下會有太大改變。所以我認為長話短說，市場是——Ladder 的庫存正在變得更滿。因此 Ladder 對剩餘可再部署的流動性較少的部分收取更高的價格。

Great. Appreciate all the color. That's all for me.

很好。感謝你提供這麼多細節。我這邊就到這裡。

Chris Muller, Citizens Capital.

Chris Muller，Citizens Capital。

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my questions and congrats on a solid quarter here. So I guess picking up on a prior line of questioning here. You guys have talked about pretty extensively being able to flip capital from the securities portfolio to the bridge portfolio. But bridge portfolio is up about $1 billion year over year and securities portfolio is pretty flat.

嗨，各位。謝謝回答我的問題，也恭喜本季表現穩健。那我想延續前面一條提問脈絡。你們談了很多，能夠把資本從證券投資組合轉到過橋投資組合。但過橋投資組合年增大約 10 億美元，而證券投資組合則相當持平。

So that gives you plenty of capacity to grow the bridge portfolio going forward. I guess how do you think that dynamic plays out in the back half of the year? Could we see the securities portfolio get down to like $1 billion-ish type number? Or is that too aggressive of a pace?

所以這讓你們未來有很大的能力去成長過橋投資組合。我想問的是，你們認為這個動態在下半年會如何發展？我們會看到證券投資組合降到大概 10 億美元左右的規模嗎？還是那樣的速度太積極了？

No, I think that's very possible. I've been asked a couple of times on these calls, how many securities do you intend to own forever. That's almost like asking me how much cash do you want to hold on a regular basis because I view them the same way, especially short AAA floaters. But I think we will be cutting into that inventory of securities between now and year-end. And I think that number will go down, and it could go down quite a bit depending on how active the origination arm is.

不，我認為那很有可能。在這些電話會議上我被問過幾次：你打算永遠持有多少證券？那幾乎就像在問我平常想持有多少現金一樣，因為我把它們視為同一類，尤其是短天期 AAA 浮動利率證券。但我認為從現在到年底，我們會削減那部分證券庫存。我認為那個數字會下降，而且視承作端（origination arm）有多活躍，可能會下降不少。

Got it. It's good to hear. And then I ask you guys this one all the time. But on the conduit business, nice to see a little bit of that in the quarter. I think that's the second quarter in a row, but still well below what you guys used to do pre-COVID.

了解。很高興聽到。然後這題我幾乎每次都問你們。關於通道（conduit）業務，本季看到有一些表現不錯。我想這已經是連續第二季了，但仍遠低於你們在 COVID 之前的水準。

So is that business going to start ramping up, do you think in the back half of the year? Or is -- are interest rates really too choppy for that to really ramp?

所以你認為下半年這項業務會開始加速成長嗎？還是——利率波動真的太大，導致很難真正加速？

Yeah, I probably would have answered that question differently a month ago, but I think it is too choppy right now. And if you actually take a look, never mind the latter, but if you just take a look at the CMBS business and the issuance over the years, there has been a steady decline in issuance, and it's only recently started to pick up. But the amount of eligible assets that can get into a 5-year or a 10-year fixed rate loan right now after the downturn over the -- since 2021 on.

是的，如果是一個月前我可能會用不同方式回答，但我認為現在確實太波動了。而且如果你實際去看——先不談 Ladder——只看 CMBS 業務以及多年來的發行量，其實發行量一直在穩步下滑，直到最近才開始回升。但在 2021 年以來的下行之後，目前能夠放進 5 年或 10 年期固定利率貸款的合格資產數量其實不多。

There's just not a lot. So that's why you're actually seeing a lot of CMBS deals with sometimes eight, nine originators because everyone is trying to amass a critical mass to go with their deal. But I don't really see the volume picking up. And a cautionary note there that most of the loans in the conduit business in the CMBS origination arm are cash out refinances. And a cash out refinance in this market after what we went through in zero interest rates and expenses through inflation is, in my opinion, a rare animal.

真的不多。所以你才會看到很多 CMBS 交易有時候會有八、九個承作機構，因為大家都在努力湊出足夠的規模來完成各自的交易。但我不太認為量會明顯回升。另外提醒一點：在通道業務、也就是 CMBS 承作端的大多數貸款，都是現金提領再融資（cash-out refinance）。而在這個市場環境下，經歷過零利率時代、再加上通膨推升成本之後，我認為現金提領再融資是一種相當罕見的動物。

So I get a little bit concerned when almost everything is a refinance and nothing is an acquisition. To me, that's a flag. And I think all it really is, it's not a danger flag. It's just a flag that says we're happy to go slow on this product because we're going to be very picky. And also that it's going to be slow.

所以當幾乎所有交易都是再融資、而沒有任何收購時，我會有點擔心。對我來說，那是一個訊號。而我認為它其實不是危險訊號。它只是一個訊號，表示我們願意在這個產品上放慢腳步，因為我們會非常挑剔。而且也表示進度會很慢。

And these rates -- just today's rate movements will -- you'll see a lot of CMBS deals in the pipeline that are going to move a month or two and might even just go further than that. But we're at the point -- I would say once we cross the 450 on the 10-year, and I think that slows things down, and I think that will come through. You'll see that on the residential side, too, in those REITs that have a lot of interest-sensitive home loans.

而這些利率——就光是今天的利率變動——你會看到很多正在籌備中的 CMBS 交易，會往後延一到兩個月，甚至可能延得更久。但我們已經到了一個點——我會說一旦 10 年期殖利率突破 450（基點），我認為就會讓事情放慢，我也認為這會反映出來。你在住宅端也會看到同樣情況，尤其是在那些持有大量利率敏感型房貸的 REIT。

Got it. It's all very helpful. I appreciate you guys taking the questions today.

了解。這些都非常有幫助。感謝各位今天回答問題。

Jade Rahmani, KBW.

Jade Rahmani，KBW。

Hi. This is Jason Sabshon on for Jade. So in your corporate presentation, you outlay a distributable EPS target of $0.26 to $0.27. Just curious, what's the target time frame for achieving that? And do you see ways to grow beyond that? Thanks.

嗨。我是代替 Jade 的 Jason Sabshon。所以在你們的公司簡報中，你們提出可分配 EPS 目標為 0.26 到 0.27 美元。我想請教，達成這個目標的時間框架是什麼？另外，你們是否看到有方法能在此之上再成長？謝謝。

Yeah. This is Paul. That's just reflective of what we've historically stated, which is we think our business can achieve a high single-digit, low double-digit ROE. And if you just simply apply that to our book value per share, that's where -- that's what generates that number.

是的。我是 Paul。那只是反映我們過去一貫的說法，也就是我們認為公司的業務可以達到高個位數、低雙位數的 ROE。如果你只是把這個回報率套用到我們的每股帳面價值上，就會——就會得出那個數字。

So the time frame of which is always subject to timing of when our loan portfolio closes and the generation of gains in our multicylinder business, but it's something we've historically stated. We just put some numbers to it in our presentation.

至於時間框架，永遠取決於我們的貸款投資組合何時完成交割，以及我們多引擎業務產生收益的時點，但這是我們歷來的表述。我們只是把一些數字放進簡報裡。

Got it. Thanks. And hit on multifamily, it'd be great to hear about what you're seeing. Has the supply headwinds started to abate some? And is rent growth still muted? Thanks.

了解。謝謝。另外談到多戶住宅（multifamily），很想聽聽你們看到的情況。供給面的逆風是否開始有所緩解？租金成長是否仍然偏弱？謝謝。

Rent growth definitely still muted, although settling, the concessions offered by the landlord to achieve certain term leases in multifamily. Yeah, the whole story about the Sunbelt being a little overbuilt and in particular, maybe Austin, Texas, that's true. And I think the ICE situation for a C -- Class low B, high C type properties is probably more impacted. You'll see some quick vacancy drops that I personally in my career, have never seen in a two-week period in time.

租金成長確實仍然偏弱，雖然正在趨於穩定；房東為了在多戶住宅拿到特定租期的租約，所提供的讓利（concessions）也是如此。是的，關於陽光帶（Sunbelt）有點過度興建、尤其可能是德州奧斯汀的說法，這是真的。而我認為，對於 C 級——低 B、高 C 這類型物件的 ICE 情況，影響可能更大。你會看到一些空置率快速下滑的情況，就我個人職涯而言，從未在兩週內看過這樣的變化。

But I think that, that will largely correct itself. And I would say rents are nearly done falling, but the expense side is still a little tricky with a lot of municipalities raising taxes. So I still think it's a bit of a dangerous business to tell you the truth because you're selling something shelter to a party that is pinched for cash generally and getting more pinched as other expenses go up. So that can become a little bit problematic. We try to avoid that not by trying to be better than anybody else.

但我認為那在很大程度上會自行修正。我會說租金幾乎已經跌到尾聲，但費用端仍然有點棘手，因為很多地方政府在提高稅負。所以老實說，我仍然覺得這是一門有點危險的生意，因為你賣的是「居住」這種必需品給通常現金吃緊、且在其他支出上升時變得更吃緊的族群。因此這可能會變得有點棘手。我們試著避免這種情況，但不是靠著想要比任何人更厲害。

We just try to avoid anything other than newer properties with lower leverage and sponsors who have hung in for a while. And you can really get a chance to see that now because a lot of these borrowers have just been through a very difficult period of time.

我們只是盡量避開除較新物件之外的案子，並選擇較低槓桿、且已經撐了一段時間的贊助商（sponsors）。而你現在真的有機會看得很清楚，因為很多借款人剛經歷了一段非常艱難的時期。

So you get a forensic look at what they did during 2023 and '24 when they had some problems. We also are seeing some loans where people are going under application with us, say, for $80 million, and they're coming to the closing with $20 million cash in.

所以你可以用鑑識的角度去看他們在 2023 年與 2024 年遇到問題時是怎麼做的。我們也看到一些貸款案例，有人向我們申請，例如 8,000 萬美元，但到交割時帶了 2,000 萬美元現金進來。

That's a refinance, cash in refi, but it feels like a purchase to me. And we really do like those things. And we also still favor new properties, especially ones coming off construction because the -- you're just watching a lease-up take place, and you've got to borrow with plenty of equity in those deals.

那是再融資、帶現金進來的再融資（cash-in refi），但對我來說感覺像是一次收購。而我們確實很喜歡這類交易。我們也仍然偏好新物件，尤其是剛從建造期轉入營運的案子，因為——你基本上是在看它的出租爬坡（lease-up）過程，而且這類交易必須以充足的股權來借款。

Got it. Thank you.

了解。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Gabe Poggi, Raymond James.

（接線員指示）Gabe Poggi，Raymond James。

Hey. Good morning. Thanks for taking the question. So Ladder is a few quarters into rotating the portfolio, right? Much higher loan origination from the securities book. And Pamela, you talked about picking up 200 basis points in that rotation. How should we think about net interest income, right, from just the loan book inflecting higher at some point on your borrowing base, right?

嗨。早安。謝謝讓我提問。所以 Ladder 已經進行投資組合輪動好幾個季度了，對吧？貸款承作（origination）相對於證券投資組合明顯提高。Pamela，你提到在這個輪動中利差提升了 200 個基點。我們應該如何看待淨利息收入（NII）——也就是僅從貸款投資組合在你們的借款基礎（borrowing base）上，是否會在某個時間點出現向上拐點？

Because NII has been flat for the last three quarters as you've gone through this. Is that a timing issue? Is there a point in time where that inflects higher? Just help us think about that.

因為在你們進行這些調整的過程中，過去三個季度 NII 都持平。這是時間點的問題嗎？是否存在某個時間點會開始向上拐？請幫我們理解一下。

I don't think there's a straight-line answer on that. I think the answer is it depends on the portfolio. So we have a couple -- as Brian said earlier, we're being very selective and picky about our assets. We're trying to originate about $400 million to $500 million a quarter. And the weighted average spread can range from 275 to 350 depending on the asset, and the lumpiness in how we've done one or two larger loans. So it really is a blend and the timing will depend on the closing.

我不認為這有一個線性、直接的答案。我認為答案取決於投資組合。所以我們有幾個——如 Brian 先前所說，我們在資產上非常審慎、非常挑剔。我們目標是每季承作大約 4 億到 5 億美元。加權平均利差可能在 275 到 350 之間，取決於資產，以及我們是否做了一兩筆較大貸款所造成的波動性。所以這確實是個組合，時間點也會取決於交割時程。

Right now, as I said, we have about $500 million in pipeline for this coming quarter. And candidly, the spread is on the higher side of that. But if one of the loans don't pan out in diligence, it could quickly drop back into line with the average of 315 that we've been doing. So a long way of saying that I think if you want to project that, you should take about $400 million to $500 million a quarter at somewhere roughly, call it, $300 million spread.

就目前而言，如我所說，我們下個季度的管線大約有 5 億美元。坦白說，利差在那個區間的偏高端。但如果其中一筆貸款在盡職調查（diligence）中沒有成案，它可能很快就會回落到我們一直在做的 315 平均水準附近。所以長話短說，我認為如果你想要做預估，你可以假設每季大約 4 億到 5 億美元，利差大概——就說約 300 個基點的利差。

Yeah. And so I think the bottom line that you asked about on the net interest income, it should continue to rise. I don't think it will take off dramatically. But I do think we'll see our distributable earnings going up because of other things that we don't -- our dividend is not fully covered by its net interest income. We have the other barrels that we use in where we allocate capital. And I do believe those will be performing pretty nicely over the -- between now and year-end.

是的。所以回到你問的淨利息收入重點，它應該會持續上升。我不認為它會大幅飆升。但我確實認為，我們的可分配盈餘會上升，因為還有其他因素——我們的股利並不是完全由淨利息收入覆蓋。我們還有其他「桶」（barrels），也就是我們配置資本時會使用的其他來源。而我相信在現在到年底之間，那些部分的表現會相當不錯。

I think you talk about a combination of both net rental income on our real estate assets, but also, as we alluded to on the call, we expect to monetize a few equity positions and then if we do a one-off conduit. So what we're really trying to remind the market is that we have these -- what people will call a one-time gain on sale and any individual gain is a one-time gain. But collectively, it adds up over the year. And Brian has long held we should be looking at Ladder as an annual year-over-year analysis rather than quarter over quarter because of that lumpiness.

我想你談的是兩者的組合：我們不動產資產的淨租金收入，另外也包括我們在電話會議中提到的，我們預期會將幾個股權部位變現，然後如果我們做一筆一次性的通道（conduit）交易。所以我們真正想提醒市場的是，我們有這些——人們會稱之為一次性的出售收益，而任何單筆收益都是一次性的出售收益。但把它們合在一起看，全年累積起來就很可觀。而 Brian 一直認為，我們應該把 Ladder 視為按年度、逐年（year-over-year）來分析，而不是按季度環比（quarter over quarter），因為這種收益具有不均勻性（lumpiness）。

Gabe, I want to revisit something, too, that actually Ladder was out in front of when the Fed went on their hiking campaign when they raised rates 550 basis points. On one of our earnings calls, we said if rates go up by 50 or 100 basis points, here's what happens to our earnings. Today, Paul, I think, correct me if I have this wrong, but I don't know what will happen at the Fed. He's going to play it a lot closer to the vest.

Gabe，我也想再回到一點，其實當聯準會啟動升息循環、把利率上調了 550 個基點時，Ladder 當時就走在前面。在我們某次財報電話會議上，我們說過如果利率上升 50 或 100 個基點，我們的獲利會發生什麼變化。今天，Paul，我想——如果我說錯請糾正我——但我不知道聯準會接下來會怎麼做。他會把話說得更保守一些（play it a lot closer to the vest）。

But generally, I think he leans towards higher rates, but he might have jaw bone this market into higher rates without actually moving. But I do think if -- let's say, they raise rates 25 or 50 basis points, this is an advantage for Ladder because we have a large fixed rate component on our liability side that doesn't go up. So -- and Paul, how many dollars per -- what's the cents per share if we had to raise it by $0.25 and $0.50.

但總體而言，我認為他傾向於較高的利率，不過他也可能只是用口頭引導（jawbone）把市場推向更高利率，而不一定真的採取行動。但我確實認為，如果——比方說，他們升息 25 或 50 個基點，這對 Ladder 是有利的，因為我們負債端有很大一部分是固定利率，不會跟著上升。所以——Paul，如果我們升息 0.25 美元和 0.50 美元的話，每股會是多少——每股幾美分？

$0.02 per share quarterly.

每季每股 0.02 美元。

And I bring that up because the SOFR was at 3.65% for a long time. I think it's at 3.70% something this morning. And it does look to be pointing higher. I don't think there's any general direction that the Fed is going to take and continue raising rates. But I do think -- I think Warsh would like to pull back one of those recent cuts, and I suspect he will. But I don't think he's going to do it in July. He doesn't have to.

我之所以提這個，是因為 SOFR 很長一段時間都在 3.65%。我想今天早上大概在 3.70% 左右。而且看起來確實有往上走的趨勢。我不認為聯準會有任何明確方向會持續升息。但我確實認為——我覺得 Warsh 會想把最近一次降息中的其中一次收回來，我猜他會這麼做。但我不認為他會在 7 月做。他也不必。

Thank you for those comments. It was more just -- and that was all very helpful. The real estate, the hard assets at Ladder are adding to the bottom line. I fully appreciate that as well as to Pamela's point, the other gain on sales that add up over time. It was just an idea from the loan book, parsing out the loan book perspective. But that commentary is helpful.

謝謝你的這些評論。我更多只是——而且那些都非常有幫助。Ladder 的不動產、硬資產正在為盈餘做出貢獻。我完全理解這點；也同意 Pamela 所說，其他出售收益會隨時間累積起來。我只是從貸款組合的角度提出一個想法，想把貸款組合的觀點拆開來看。但這些說明很有幫助。

I think that unique -- not unique, but there are times when all of our products are green light. And it's unusual because they're meant to be stressed in certain environments. But right now, with the -- other than the fact that there's a volume challenge going on to finding high-quality real estate to lend on, I think all of our silos are going to be kicking in. And certainly, I think your initial question, net interest income, that should be rising.

我認為有一種獨特——也不能說獨特，但有些時候我們所有產品線都亮綠燈。這很不尋常，因為它們原本是設計來在某些環境下承受壓力測試的。但現在，除了在放款量上面臨挑戰、要找到可放款的高品質不動產之外，我認為我們所有的業務板塊都會開始發力。而且當然，我想你一開始問的淨利息收入，應該會上升。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Okay.

好的。

And at this time, there are no further questions. That will conclude the question-and-answer session. I would like to turn it back over to Brian Harris for any additional or closing remarks.

此時沒有其他問題。問答環節到此結束。我想把時間交回給 Brian Harris，請他做任何補充或結語。

Sure. Thanks, operator, and thank you for joining us today. Those of you who call in later, thanks, too. But just we'll see you again soon. Things are going pretty well here. I think we've got some positive surprises that should benefit everybody, all the shareholders near term.

好的。謝謝主持人，也謝謝各位今天加入我們。稍後才撥入的各位，也謝謝你們。那麼我們很快會再見。這裡一切進展得相當順利。我想我們有一些正面的驚喜，短期內應該會讓所有人、所有股東受益。

And we're somehow sailing along here and feel pretty comfortable where we are. The question I get asked a lot of times on interest rates, would I rather have rates up or down as a lender? I'd rather have them up because there's simply more dollars of interest being paid through the system. So I'll leave it at that and look forward to the next one. Thank you.

我們就這樣一路前行，對目前的狀況感到相當安心。我常被問到利率問題：作為放款人，我寧願利率上升還是下降？我寧願利率上升，因為整個系統中被支付的利息金額會更多。我就說到這裡，期待下一次會議。謝謝。

And that will conclude today's call. We thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的參與。您現在可以掛線。