Kaspi.kz AO (KSPI) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, everyone, to the Kasp 4Q and full-year '24 financial results webinar. My name is Breka, and I will be your coordinator today. (Operator Instructions)

歡迎大家參加 Kasp 第四季和 24 年全年財務績效網路研討會。我的名字是 Breka，今天我將擔任您的協調員。（操作員指令）

I would now like to hand the call over to David Ferguson from Kaspi to begin today's presentation. Please go ahead, David.

現在，我想將電話交給卡斯皮 (Kaspi) 的戴維·弗格森 (David Ferguson)，開始今天的演講。請繼續，大衛。

Okay. Thanks, Breka. Good morning, good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. It's our fourth quarter and full-year 2024 financial results. I'm David Ferguson from Kaspi. Joining me on the call are CEO and Co-Founder, Mikheil Lomtadze; our Deputy CEOs, Tengiz Mosidze and Yuri Didenko. Standard format for the call, Mikheil will run you through strategic update of 2024. I'll run you through the financials. We'll open the call up to Q&A. The whole team is available to participate.

好的。謝謝，Breka。大家早安，下午好。感謝您今天加入我們。這是我們的 2024 年第四季和全年財務表現。我是來自卡斯皮的戴維·弗格森。與我一起參加電話會議的還有執行長兼聯合創始人 Mikheil Lomtadze；我們的副執行長 Tengiz Mosidze 和 Yuri Didenko。依照通話的標準格式，米哈伊爾 (Mikheil) 將帶您了解 2024 年的策略更新。我將向您介紹財務狀況。我們將開始電話問答環節。整個團隊均可參加。

So on that note, over to you, Mikheil.

因此，就這一點而言，交給你了，米哈伊爾。

Thank you. David, good to have you all on this call. Just to give you another reminder of the Kaspi Super App business model and this incredible range of diverse services for consumers and merchants. And just to -- again, just to remind those are -- we run the two Super Apps, one is for consumers, another one is for merchants. We connect the experiences of both through the payment network, marketplace fintech, financial services. And on the consumer side, there is a huge range of the services, which we continuously innovate.

謝謝。大衛，很高興大家來參加這場電話會議。只是想再次提醒您 Kaspi 超級應用程式商業模式以及為消費者和商家提供的令人難以置信的多樣化服務。再次提醒一下，我們運行兩個超級應用程序，一個面向消費者，另一個面向商家。我們透過支付網路、市場金融科技和金融服務將兩者的經驗連結起來。在消費者方面，我們提供的服務範圍非常廣泛，我們不斷地進行創新。

So -- I mean, some of the things I will cover later in the presentation, but things like gift certificates, for example, which we have been -- we launched last year. And again, consumers can shop, pay, manage their finance, delivery through our consumer Super App.

所以 - 我的意思是，我將在稍後的演示中介紹一些內容，例如我們去年推出的禮券等。並且，消費者可以透過我們的消費者超級應用程式購物、付款、管理財務、送貨。

And then on the merchant side, we've mentioned the merchant side will be a strong pipeline for innovations for merchants, just to help them grow their businesses, become more efficient and really help them to onboard to the marketplace, but also get access to the financing of their business.

然後在商家方面，我們已經提到商家方面將成為商家創新的強大管道，只是為了幫助他們發展業務，提高效率，並真正幫助他們進入市場，同時也獲得業務融資。

So as merchants grow and merchants are successful, we are successful. And actually, products of those merchants being either paid or -- for or purchased through the consumer Kaspi.kz Super App and some of the products which we have also launched and have been scaling this year are quite exciting, things like deposit for business or buy now -- buy inventory now pay later products as well as around in advertising and some of the product innovations we have later in the presentation.

因此，隨著商家的成長與成功，我們也成功了。實際上，這些商家的產品要么是透過消費者 Kaspi.kz 超級應用程式支付或購買的，要么是我們已經推出並在今年擴大規模的一些產品，這些產品非常令人興奮，例如企業存款或先買後付產品，以及廣告和我們稍後在演示中介紹的一些產品創新。

But just to remind everyone, unique business runs two Super Apps with wide range of the services around daily needs of consumers and merchants.

但需要提醒大家的是，Unique Business 經營兩個超級應用程序，提供廣泛的服務，滿足消費者和商家的日常需求。

Just on 4Q numbers. So we had a very strong quarter. So all our platforms showed a very strong growth. The payments TPV grew 30%, and the net income on the payments grew 22% with revenue 19%. Marketplace had been the fastest-growing business for us. So GMV grew 39%, revenue 43% and net income 32%.

僅討論第四季的數據。因此，我們本季的業績非常強勁。因此，我們所有的平台都顯示出非常強勁的成長。支付TPV成長30%，支付淨收入成長22%，營收成長19%。市場一直是我們成長最快的業務。因此，GMV 成長了 39%，營收成長了 43%，淨收入成長了 32%。

And as we also told you and guided you through the year, the later in the year of 2024, there will be a fintech business we'll be catching up. So very good strong quarter for our fintech business with financing volumes growing 21%, the net income growing 28%.

正如我們在今年告訴您和指導您的那樣，到 2024 年下半年，我們將趕上金融科技業務。因此，本季我們的金融科技業務表現非常強勁，融資量成長 21%，淨收入成長 28%。

Consolidated, we continue to be a business which drives transactions. That's the foundation of our business. monthly transactions poor active consumer 73, which is incredible. So -- again, this is not just opening the mobile application or what we would call maybe soft metrics. This is really hard metrics when consumers pay, consumers shop, merchants transact and so on and so forth. So this actual transaction. So 73 transactions per month for active consumer is a very -- I mean, it's the world class.

綜合來看，我們繼續成為一家推動交易的企業。這就是我們業務的基礎。每月交易可憐的活躍消費者73個，令人難以置信。所以——再說一次，這不僅僅是打開行動應用程式或我們所謂的軟指標。當消費者支付、消費者購物、商家交易等等時，這確實是硬指標。這是實際交易。因此，對於活躍消費者來說，每月 73 筆交易是非常高的——我的意思是，這是世界級的。

The revenue grew 28% and the net income grew consolidated in the fourth Q, 28%. So strong quarter performance. Our annual performance, I'm not going to spend much time on it, but basically grew really well, and our net income grew 25% year-over-year with revenue 32%.

第四季營收成長28%，淨收入成長28%。本季的表現非常強勁。我們的年度業績，我不會花太多時間在這上面，但基本上增長得很好，我們的淨收入同比增長 25％，收入增長 32％。

And again, as I mentioned, even though fintech grew 12% over the course of the year, actually, the last quarter was 28% net income growth on the fintech. So fintech was catching up. And the fastest-growing net income during the year was our marketplace, so 41% growth of net income during the year.

正如我剛才所說，儘管金融科技在全年增長了 12%，但實際上，上個季度金融科技的淨收入增長了 28%。金融科技正在迎頭趕上。今年淨收入成長最快的是我們的市場，因此今年淨收入成長了41％。

As we continue developing our platforms, so we're becoming increasingly diversified. So as you can see now, we have pretty much equal bottom line from three of our platforms. Roughly one-third each, and non-fintech now is 69%. So another year of the growth. And again, our profits have been driven by faster growing marketplace and the payments, and that is reflected now in distribution of our net income. So well diversified across three platforms, which is a good sign and has been our focus for a long time.

隨著我們不斷開發平台，我們也變得越來越多元。正如您現在所看到的，我們三個平台的利潤幾乎相同。各佔約三分之一，非金融科技目前佔69%。又是一年成長。而且，我們的利潤受到快速成長的市場和支付的推動，這現在反映在我們的淨收入分配中。三個平台的多元化程度很高，這是一個好兆頭，也是我們長期以來的重點。

Consumer Services penetration is -- there are basically services which you have here the selected services, which are transactional, I would say. And we -- as you can see, even the higher penetrated services, continued strong growth, like on the payment side, for example, TPV grew 31%. And this is on the back of payments business being the highest penetrated. 94% of our consumers, for example, use QR and car transactions or 85% of our consumers do household regular bills.

消費者服務的滲透率是——基本上是您在這裡選擇的服務，我想說，這些服務都是交易性的。正如您所看到的，即使是滲透率更高的服務也繼續保持強勁增長，例如在支付方面，TPV 增長了 31%。這是由於支付業務滲透率最高。例如，94％的消費者使用二維碼和汽車交易，85％的消費者使用家庭定期帳單。

At the same time, everything around marketplace and is something which will be driving growth further due to the current penetration of e-commerce, but also in general, as we add more shopping verticals. And e-Grocery, for example, is just 6% of our consumers, which provides a really very strong we believe that there will be a very significant growth in e-Grocery.

同時，由於電子商務的日益普及，圍繞市場的一切都將進一步推動成長，而且總體而言，隨著我們增加更多的購物垂直市場。以電子雜貨為例，它只占我們消費者的 6%，這為我們提供了強有力的信心，我們相信電子雜貨將會出現非常顯著的成長。

And then on the fintech side of things, products like car finance, for example, which we have been also scaling during the year, are the type of products which will also drive the growth in the future. The merchant service is pretty much mirror really. So payments, again, the highest penetration, and now most of our merchants are connected to our payments, 95% of the merchants, but again, still driving the transactions around merchants and consumers.

然後從金融科技方面來看，例如汽車金融等產品，我們今年也一直在擴大規模，這類產品也將在未來推動成長。商家的服務幾乎和真的一模一樣。因此，支付再次具有最高的滲透率，現在我們的大多數商家都與我們的支付相連，95％的商家都與支付相連，但同樣，交易仍然在商家和消費者之間進行。

And as with the consumers, the same is pretty much with the merchant, everything around marketplace, e-commerce specifically, those are the services which have the strong growth perspective due to the low penetration, e-commerce penetration is only 11% of our merchant base. And the same time advertising, which we have been scaling for the last couple of years. or delivery also have a potential to be value creating for merchants. And therefore, the penetration will be driving the growth.

與消費者一樣，商家的情況也差不多，圍繞市場的一切，特別是電子商務，這些服務由於滲透率低而具有強勁的成長前景，電子商務滲透率僅占我們商家群的 11%。同時，我們在過去幾年也一直在擴大廣告業務。或配送也有可能為商家創造價值。因此，滲透率將推動成長。

And we have also launched a couple of merchant-related products, both on the payments and finance side and also savings. Just to give you a sense, like 10% of our merchants are using business deposit now. And we just launched it like later in 2024.

我們也推出了一些與商家相關的產品，包括支付和金融方面以及儲蓄方面。只是為了讓你了解一下，現在我們有 10% 的商家正在使用商業存款。我們將在 2024 年稍後推出它。

So it has been quite remarkable engagement from merchants and now merchants not only can accept the payments through us, not only sell or advertise the goods they have and also connect to the delivery, but actually, merchants can also save the money. If they have excess cash and the Kaspi deposit is -- Kaspi Pay business deposit is a very good product, which was very much welcomed by the merchants.

因此，商家的參與度非常高，現在商家不僅可以透過我們接受付款，不僅可以銷售或宣傳他們擁有的商品，還可以連接到送貨，但實際上，商家還可以省錢。如果他們有多餘的現金，那麼Kaspi 存款——Kaspi Pay 商業存款是一個非常好的產品，受到商家的歡迎。

If you look at the cohorts, well, cohorts continue a strong growth. So the payments cohort, as you can see, continues a nice growth, each cohort growing 65% of our consumers are from the last five years. And again, as we continue -- we already have a very strong engagements from the merchants and from the consumers. This platform is the highest engaged, the most of consumers and merchants are using it. So by adding more reasons to transact, we'll be supporting the growth in the payments business.

如果你看一下群組，你會發現群組數量持續強勁成長。因此，正如您所看到的，支付群體繼續保持良好的成長勢頭，每個群體成長的 65％ 的消費者都來自過去五年。而且，隨著我們繼續前進——我們已經獲得了來自商家和消費者的非常強烈的參與。該平台參與度最高，消費者和商家使用率最高。因此，透過增加交易的更多理由，我們將支持支付業務的成長。

Marketplace, even higher potential really and the growth. And you can see each cohort also demonstrates a very strong growth, again, 54% of consumers are actually from the last five years, but also every cohort, the consumers are shopping more. And this is really is a result of us either entering the new verticals and on the e-commerce side or adding more products, items to buy, but also going into new businesses like we constantly launch something new, right?

市場確實有更高的潛力和成長。您可以看到每個群體都表現出非常強勁的成長，54％的消費者實際上來自過去五年，而且每個群體的消費者都在購物更多。這實際上是我們進入新的垂直領域和電子商務領域或增加更多產品和商品的結果，同時也是我們不斷推出新產品的結果，對嗎？

E-Grocery is a good example. Travel, tours is another example, cars and so on and so forth. So marketplace will grow both as more consumers will use it, more merchants will connect, assortment will increase, but also the new services which we are constantly launching.

電子雜貨店就是一個很好的例子。另一個例子是旅行、旅遊、汽車等等。因此，隨著越來越多的消費者使用市場，越來越多的商家加入市場，商品種類不斷增加，同時我們也將持續推出新服務，因此市場將會持續發展。

The grocery business has showed a very strong growth. So we now -- we grew about 97% in the GMV and 84% in the transactions, almost 10 million transactions last year. So just keep in mind that this business didn't exist a couple of years ago. So we have been able to scale it nicely rapidly with a good quality consumer experience and very high levels of engagement.

雜貨業務表現出非常強勁的成長。所以我們現在——去年我們的 GMV 成長了約 97%，交易量增加了 84%，幾乎有 1000 萬筆交易。所以請記住，幾年前這項業務還不存在。因此，我們能夠透過優質的消費者體驗和非常高的參與度迅速擴大規模。

We have been focused on the three cities during 2024. We have been adding more dark stores during the year, but also expanding the capacity of existing dark stores, increasing the efficiency. So the entire team from e-Commerce to the e-Grocery operation has done a remarkable job by exciting consumers.

2024年，我們的重點將放在這三座城市。我們今年一直在增加更多黑暗的商店，同時也擴大現有黑暗商店的容量，提高效率。因此，從電子商務到電子雜貨營運的整個團隊都透過激發消費者的興趣做出了卓越的工作。

This business is highly repetitive. So consumer experience is extremely important and fundamental. If consumers are happy and excited, they continue shopping with you. So high frequency business. Quality of the consumer experience is super important.

這項業務重複性很強。所以消費者體驗極為重要且根本。如果消費者感到高興和興奮，他們就會繼續向您購物。因此，高頻業務。消費者體驗的品質極為重要。

And in 2025, we are considering entering the two new cities. Our existing cities will continue to grow and we'll continue to increase the capacity. But at the same time, in 2025 would like to enter the two new cities with our e-Grocery value proposition.

2025年，我們考慮進入這兩個新城市。我們現有的城市將繼續發展，我們也將繼續增加容量。但同時，我們希望在 2025 年憑藉我們的電子雜貨價值主張進入這兩個新城市。

The e-Cars. So the cars business, we have been also driving nicely. And again, it's -- we are going after the entire value chain, helping the consumers to buy the car and to own the car have shown a very good growth. And yes, it's 3P mainly. And then 1P, it's a highly targeted product basically, which will be for the sellers that want to get money fast and the buyers that want to get the money with the car, which has been checked and verified for additional value created for both sellers of the cars and merchants of the car -- sorry, buyers of the car.

電動汽車。因此，我們的汽車業務也發展得非常順利。再說一次，我們追求的是整個價值鏈，幫助消費者購買汽車和擁有汽車，並取得了非常好的成長。是的，主要是 3P。然後 1P，它基本上是一種高度針對性的產品，適用於想要快速賺錢的賣家和想要用汽車賺錢的買家，它已經過檢查和驗證，可以為汽車賣家和汽車商家（對不起，是汽車買家）創造額外的價值。

But in general, it's largely 3P integrated also with Kolesa, our number-one classifieds -- car classifieds in the country. And yes, and we're streamlining the entire value chain. And there -- usually, they will move slightly in opposite directions. The larger is a 3P business, smaller is a 1P business because eventually, it's all about those same cars, which being sold, but different way. 62% GMV growth very encouraging, and the spare parts is our important priority this year and next year.

但總體來說，它主要是 3P 集成，也與我們在該國排名第一的分類廣告——汽車分類廣告 Kolesa 集成。是的，我們正在簡化整個價值鏈。通常，它們會朝相反的方向稍微移動。較大的是 3P 業務，較小的是 1P 業務，因為最終它們都與銷售相同的汽車有關，只是銷售方式不同。62%的GMV成長非常令人鼓舞，備件是我們今年和明年的重點工作。

If you look at the value chain or what we're trying to do is just to give you a little bit of an overview, consumers, sellers and buyers of the cars, we help them to lease the cars. We help them to buy the car, they can get online car finance, which is the fully digital experience. You can buy spare parts. You can register the car with our government services. You can pay taxes for the car. You can issue driving license.

如果你看一下價值鏈，或者我們試圖做的只是給你一點概述，汽車的消費者、賣家和買家，我們幫助他們租賃汽車。我們幫助他們買車，他們可以獲得網路汽車金融，這是完全數位化的體驗。您可以購買備件。您可以透過我們的政府服務部門註冊汽車。您可以為汽車繳稅。您可以發放駕駛執照。

So those are the main parts of the value chain between buying the car, owning the car. So very exciting, continue to digitalize the buying ownership experience of the car. And it's probably the second largest item on this household budget. So yes, so we just continue developing this business, really excited about good growth in 2024.

這些就是從購買汽車到擁有汽車的價值鏈的主要部分。非常令人興奮的是，繼續將購買汽車的體驗數位化。這或許是這個家庭預算中第二大的項目。是的，我們將繼續發展這項業務，並對 2024 年的良好成長感到非常興奮。

We've launched gift cards in the -- at the end of last year. So this is the -- it's just a very nice cool feature, personalized. You can actually basically just give the gift card for the birthday of your friends or your coworkers when you don't really have to think about what you want to buy.

我們在去年年底推出了禮品卡。所以這是——這只是一個非常棒的、個人化的功能。實際上，當您的朋友或同事過生日時，您可以直接送禮品卡給他們，而不必真正考慮您想要購買什麼。

So instead of it, you can give a gift card and then the person can actually buy anything they want on Kaspi e-Commerce. So it had been a very strong growth. We just launched the project, really. So -- but it's already almost 50,000 purchases. So yes, so very excited. There will be a range of the innovation around the gift card experience during this year, but it's cool, it's fun. Consumers love it. Net Promoter Score is incredible. So yes, so it's really, really nice shopping experience.

因此，您可以贈送禮品卡，然後人們實際上可以在 Kaspi 電子商務上購買任何他們想要的東西。因此，這是一個非常強勁的成長。我們確實剛剛啟動了這個專案。所以——但購買量已經接近 50,000 份。是的，非常興奮。今年禮品卡體驗方面將會有一系列的創新，但這很酷，很有趣。消費者很喜歡它。淨推薦值令人難以置信。是的，這是一次非常非常棒的購物體驗。

The delivery on our e-Commerce is our important -- well, I should call it, asset. So I think we are world class company in a delivery in our e-Commerce. So we grew our delivered orders 128% last year and almost 100 million orders delivered during the year. The important metrics of the delivery, it's basically almost for free, 84% and almost half of those we deliver in less than two days.

我們的電子商務交付是我們的重要資產——好吧，我應該稱之為資產。所以我認為我們是電子商務交付領域世界一流的公司。因此，去年我們交付的訂單增加了128％，全年交付了近1億份訂單。配送的重要指標是，基本上是免費的，84% 的配送，其中近一半的配送可在兩天內完成。

And very importantly, the lockers, Kaspi Postomats, which were rolled out for the last several years, is creating this unique opportunity of not just only exciting consumers by delivering on time with very high success ratios but also keeping the cost under control on the delivery side. So very, very excited about this.

非常重要的是，過去幾年推出的 Kaspi Postomats 儲物櫃創造了這個獨特機會，不僅透過按時、高成功率送貨讓消費者感到興奮，而且還能控制送貨方面的成本。我對此感到非常非常興奮。

Now we have largely built the network. At the moment, we have in excess of 8,000 Postomats. And yes, we will just continue maintaining and increasing the efficiency, but we have pretty much built the network which is required to cover the country.

現在我們的網路基本上已經建成了。目前，我們擁有超過 8,000 台 Postomat。是的，我們將繼續保持和提高效率，但我們基本上已經建成了覆蓋全國所需的網路。

We have also launched and have been launched in 2023, I think. And then in 2024, we actually launched another much more advanced version of Kaspi POS registers. So that's something this product is very interesting and very useful for the merchants. So basically, what you can do is you can enter the item which consumer wants to buy.

我們也已經推出了，我想將在 2023 年推出。然後在 2024 年，我們實際上推出了另一個更先進的 Kaspi POS 收銀機版本。所以這個產品對於商家來說非常有趣而且非常有用。所以基本上，您可以做的就是輸入消費者想要購買的商品。

First of all, you create the product catalog, then you enter what consumers want to buy. And then you enter the price, you enter the quantity, you actually accept the payment through our POS. This software is integrated with our POS network. And then automatically, we'll be producing also digital tax receipts. So this is very high-value additive product to the merchant operation, we provided for free.

首先，你要建立產品目錄，然後輸入消費者想要購買的產品。然後您輸入價格，輸入數量，您實際上透過我們的 POS 接受付款。該軟體與我們的 POS 網路整合。然後我們還將自動產生數位稅收收據。所以這是我們免費提供的對商家經營非常高價值的附加產品。

But this just gives you a sense of that we're a company which is creating the value-added services and increasing value of Kaspi as the company, which helps merchants to develop. So 35% of merchants now using the POS register. And yes, and it's -- we have processed KZT1.2 trillion of the payments through our register.

但這只是讓您感覺到我們是一家正在創造增值服務並增加 Kaspi 價值的公司，旨在幫助商家發展。因此，目前有 35% 的商家使用 POS 收銀機。是的，我們已經透過我們的收銀機處理了 1.2 兆堅戈的付款。

And again, if you think about the functionality and the value we can create in the future around this simple function of actually recording the transactions and the purchases, the value-added services, which we believe we can develop around the sales reports, around the inventory, around advertising and many other value-added services for merchants. But this is the product which has been showing extraordinary engagement. And again, one of -- more than one in three merchants already using it. And it's completely free for merchants.

再說一次，如果你考慮我們未來可以圍繞這個簡單的功能（實際記錄交易和購買）創造的功能和價值，那麼我們相信我們可以圍繞銷售報告、庫存、廣告和許多其他為商家提供的增值服務來開發增值服務。但這款產品卻一直展現出非凡的吸引力。而且，超過三分之一的商家已經在使用它了。而且對商家來說它是完全免費的。

We have been also developing the -- further the advertising offering. So as you recall, during the year, we launched brand advertising. So now we have two products -- well, last -- no. yes, now we have more. Last year, we had two products. We now are almost in March, right? So last year, we had two products. The one product is to advertise -- you can advertise your goods. So products which you have on our marketplace and e-Commerce platform.

我們也一直在進一步開發廣告服務。大家還記得，今年我們推出了品牌廣告。所以現在我們有兩種產品——嗯，最後一種——不是。是的，現在我們有更多了。去年我們有兩種產品。現在快到三月了，對吧？所以去年我們有兩種產品。一種產品就是廣告－你可以為你的商品做廣告。因此，您在我們的市場和電子商務平台上擁有的產品。

And now also, if you have a brand, now you can also advertise your brand and has been showing a very strong adoption. And now our Kaspi ad service is being used by 51,000 merchants and contribute significantly to both our revenue, but most importantly, really helps merchants and brands to reach the right customers at the right time with the right product.

現在，如果您有一個品牌，您也可以宣傳您的品牌，而這種宣傳已經顯示出非常強勁的勢頭。現在，我們的 Kaspi 廣告服務已被 51,000 家商家使用，為我們的收入做出了巨大貢獻，但最重要的是，它真正幫助商家和品牌在正確的時間透過正確的產品接觸到正確的客戶。

Business deposit, we launched last year. Again, that was something which I mentioned in the beginning of our call, has been of extraordinary adoptions. We just launched this product in the third Q. And as you can see, 77,000 merchants were already saving -- having Kaspi business deposit end of last year. Incredible growth in terms of the amounts, 443% now is growth just during the year as we were scaling it.

商業存款，我們去年推出了。再次，這是我在通話開始時提到的，已經得到了非凡的採用。我們剛剛在第三季推出了這款產品。正如你所看到的，截至去年年底，已有 77,000 家商家開設了 Kaspi 商業存款帳戶。從數量上看，成長令人難以置信，我們擴大規模的一年內就實現了 443% 的成長率。

The unique feature of this savings deposit, if you take the merchant perspective, I'm in a trading business, I had a good week or a good month of the sales or day driven by Kaspi promotion campaigns, for example. So I have some extra cash. And I can fully online, fully digital, I can place this extra cash on the business deposit. Interest is accrued daily. And yes, and this is very attractive for the merchants.

這種儲蓄存款的獨特之處在於，如果從商家的角度來看，我從事貿易業務，例如，在 Kaspi 促銷活動的推動下，我有一周或一個月的銷售業績不錯，或者一天的銷售業績不錯。所以我有一些額外的現金。我可以完全在線上、完全數位化地將這筆額外的現金存入商業存款中。利息每日累計。是的，這對商家來說非常有吸引力。

So now merchants not only can pay and we process payments for them or help to sell the goods, but also merchants can now save money and make revenue from the interest which we pay on the cash, which is extra and you can place it on the savings account on the Kaspi deposit with us. So impressive growth and merchants welcome this product, which we launched last year.

所以現在商家不僅可以付款，我們還可以為他們處理付款或幫助銷售商品，而且商家現在還可以省錢，並從我們支付的現金利息中賺取收入，這是額外的，您可以將其存入我們在 Kaspi 存款的儲蓄帳戶中。我們去年推出的這款產品取得了令人印象深刻的成長，商家也非常歡迎它。

Another product which we have launched end of last year, it's buy inventory now pay later. So basically, what that means is that you are -- to simplify, you are a convenience store, you have supplier from -- on the B2B side of things, we work with the distributors, B2B payments, as you know. So those suppliers come in to the convenience store and they bring some products from FMCG brands. So you can actually buy this inventory and pay 30 days later to us, but we will pay to distributor straight away.

我們去年年底推出的另一款產品是先買庫存，然後再付款。所以基本上，這意味著你——簡單來說，你是一家便利商店，你有供應商——在 B2B 方面，我們與分銷商合作，進行 B2B 支付，如你所知。因此這些供應商進入便利商店並帶來一些快速消費品品牌的產品。因此您實際上可以購買此庫存並在 30 天後向我們付款，但我們會立即向分銷商付款。

And it's a fully online product, you can select the amount, you can select the limit which you want when the transactions are happening on -- for example, on a daily basis by the employee. And then you pretty much scan the suppliers' QR code, which courier has, and you can pay at delivery. And then we pay immediately and then you pay us 30 days later.

它是一個完全在線的產品，您可以選擇金額，可以選擇交易時所需的限額——例如，按員工每天計算。然後你只需掃描快遞員提供的供應商二維碼，即可在送貨時付款。然後我們立即付款，然後您在 30 天後付款給我們。

So this product basically helps to streamline the B2B. It's another product on B2B side of things. on top of B2B payments. And yes, it's additional product, which helps the merchants to grow and improve working capital and the suppliers -- or distributors is also helps to reduce the receivables and we are in a risk management business, so we can do our job better than anyone else in the value chain. So in other exciting products, and we'll be scaling it during this year, in 2025.

所以該產品基本上有助於簡化 B2B 流程。這是 B2B 方面的另一種產品。在B2B支付之上。是的，它是附加產品，可以幫助商家成長和改善營運資本，而供應商或分銷商也有助於減少應收帳款，我們從事風險管理業務，因此我們可以比價值鏈中的任何其他人更好地完成工作。因此，對於其他令人興奮的產品，我們將在今年，也就是 2025 年擴大規模。

Just a couple of slides about Kaspi and our products in terms of consumer recognition and the brand perception. Again, this is something just important to keep in mind. This is our -- probably the most important asset that we have, which is the result of high-quality products, which we launch. So if you ask the consumer, which mobile application is installed on your mobile phone, will be 5.5 times more mentioned than the nearest brand, or which payment app you know and uses 20 -- almost 20 times the nearest brand, is Kaspi gazette.

僅從消費者認知和品牌認知度的角度介紹 Kaspi 和我們的產品的一些幻燈片。再次強調，這是需要牢記的重要事項。這是我們最重要的資產，也是我們推出的高品質產品的結果。因此，如果你問消費者，你的手機上安裝了哪個行動應用程序，提到的次數將比最接近的品牌多 5.5 倍，或者你知道並使用哪個支付應用程序，提到的次數將近 20 倍——幾乎是最近品牌的 20 倍，這是 Kaspi 公報。

If you ask about e-commerce apps that you use almost 3 times more than the nearest brand, which travel apps sites use, you know its nearest brand is 3 times more. Again, the travel didn't exist several years ago. So we built this business from scratch. Where you would take a loan, it's 4x nearest brand, where you would put your deposit funds with 3 times nearest brand.

如果您詢問您使用的電子商務應用程式幾乎比最接近的品牌（旅行應用程式網站使用的）多 3 倍，您就會知道其最接近的品牌多 3 倍。再說了，幾年前這種旅行還不存在。因此，我們白手起家創建了這項業務。如果您要貸款，則需要 4 倍最接近的品牌，如果您要存款，則需要 3 倍最接近的品牌。

And then on the car and real estate, if you -- yes, consumer basically in terms of the cars, where you would buy a car, 10 times the nearest brand. So number-one car vertical on the market and then where you would buy real estate 4.4 times better than the nearest brand. And again, all those brand metrics are just a reminder that while we are on just a 20 million people market, we are innovating. We're launching the new services.

然後關於汽車和房地產，如果你——是的，消費者基本上就汽車而言，你會在哪裡購買汽車，價格是最近品牌的 10 倍。因此，在市場上排名第一的汽車垂直市場，您可以在這裡購買比最接近的品牌好 4.4 倍的房地產。再說一遍，所有這些品牌指標只是提醒我們，雖然我們只處於 2,000 萬人的市場，但我們仍在創新。我們正在推出新服務。

We're driving the engagement and every service and some of them have just showed you earlier, they are receiving increasing adoption. The foundation for this is actually quality of the services and the quality of our operations, and we do care about the consumers and the merchants. And that is a result of it is a strong brand perception, which is an important asset, and we just continue to innovate exciting our customers. But yes, the consumers and the merchants love us for the quality of the services we develop.

我們正在推動參與度和每項服務，其中一些剛剛向您展示過，它們正在獲得越來越多的採用。其基礎實際上是服務品質和營運質量，我們確實關心消費者和商家。這是因為品牌認知度高，這是一項重要資產，我們只是不斷創新以激發顧客興趣。但確實，消費者和商家喜歡我們提供的服務品質。

Yes, I would like to mention just a high level preview of the Hepsiburada transaction. So we basically closed the transaction in January -- end of January. And we received all the regulatory approvals and the -- we paid the first part of the acquisition price and the second part of the acquisition price will be paid basically not mid-summer, not later than six months post closing.

是的，我只想提一下 Hepsiburada 交易的高層預覽。因此我們基本上在一月（一月底）完成了交易。我們已獲得所有監管部門的批准，並支付了第一部分收購價，第二部分收購價將基本在夏季中旬支付，最遲在交易結束後六個月內支付。

Just wanted to mention the transaction is being funded from our cash flow and first payment and the second payment, our dividend for the fourth Q and the first half. Yes, I just wanted to make this clear. We did mention this end of last year, but still just to clarify. And then we'll -- yes, we'll update later in the year, second half about the return of the cash -- excess cash to our shareholders.

只是想說一下，這筆交易的資金來自我們的現金流、第一筆付款、第二筆付款以及第四季和上半年的股息。是的，我只是想把這一點說清楚。我們確實在去年年底提到過這一點，但仍然只是為了澄清。然後，是的，我們將在今年晚些時候，也就是下半年更新向股東返還現金——多餘現金的情況。

Again, we have been very disciplined about this historically, but every single time on this call, I did mention that investing in the future, investing into the growth is the important priority. So I do hope it doesn't come as a surprise, but we did mention this on every call for so many years.

再說一遍，我們過去一直對此非常嚴謹，但每次在電話會議上，我都會提到，投資未來、投資成長是重要的優先事項。所以我確實希望這不會讓人感到驚訝，但這麼多年我們每次通話中確實都提到了這一點。

Just a couple of things and the review of the opportunity. Again, the population, 85 million people, Turkey is a really exciting market for us. It brings us to 100 plus million people. The retail is obviously much bigger than the Kazakhstan e-com penetration is still allows a very nice growth. GDP growth forecast about 4.4%. And then clearly, the macro and inflation outlook is showing signs of the normalization.

只談幾件事和對機會的回顧。再說一次，土耳其人口有 8500 萬，對我們來說是一個非常令人興奮的市場。它使我們的人口達到一億多。零售業顯然比哈薩克的電子商務滲透率大得多，仍然可以實現非常好的成長。GDP成長預測約4.4%。顯然，宏觀和通膨前景正在顯示出正常化的跡象。

We believe that this year should be still challenging from the consumer perspective as this transition to the macro inflation stability continues through the year, but the medium term is an exciting opportunity for us and the Hepsiburada is a strong foundation and platform, which we would like to build on in the country. On top of it, Kaspi itself looking to launch some services in Turkey.

我們認為，從消費者的角度來看，今年仍然充滿挑戰，因為宏觀通膨穩定的轉變將持續全年，但中期對我們來說是一個激動人心的機會，而赫普西布拉達是一個堅實的基礎和平台，我們希望在該國繼續發展。除此之外，Kaspi 本身也希望在土耳其推出一些服務。

Hepsiburada has been quite disciplined, post COVID and focused on stabilizing its financials. And moving to positive cash flow. So that has been a very important priority for the company and its founders and the management teams have done a very good job. And now over time, this would be also an opportunity where we can build on and probably switch to more of a product development and innovations on this show foundation.

在疫情之後，Hepsiburada 一直非常自律，並專注於穩定財務狀況。並轉向正現金流。所以這對公司來說是一個非常重要的優先事項，公司的創辦人和管理團隊也做得非常好。隨著時間的推移，這也是一個機會，我們可以在此基礎上進行更多的產品開發和創新。

And then a couple of things about Hepsiburada. In terms of the size, it's about KZT3.5 billion GMV. So GMV is a reasonable size and has been growing around 17%. We are presenting to you, by the way, those are 9-month numbers and Hepsiburada definition of its financials. You -- I would hope you appreciate Hepsiburada is a public company. And therefore, it's communicating its own results on its own merit.

接下來是一些關於 Hepsiburada 的事情。從規模上看，其 GMV 約為 35 億堅戈。因此，GMV 規模合理，並且一直成長 17% 左右。順便說一下，我們向您展示的是 9 個月的數據以及 Hepsiburada 對其財務狀況的定義。您—我希望您明白 Hepsiburada 是一家上市公司。因此，它根據自己的優點傳達自己的結果。

And therefore, here, what we have is actually the nine-month numbers, which are publicly available and you can also see from Hepsiburada on the nine months. But GMV growth has been 17%. Share of 3P 70%. So one-third is 1P, 3P is two-thirds of the business roughly.

因此，這裡我們實際上擁有的是前九個月的數據，這些數據是公開的，你也可以從 Hepsiburada 看到前九個月的數據。但GMV成長率達到了17%。3P份額70%。因此三分之一是 1P，3P 大致上是業務的三分之二。

Active consumers 12 million, which is a good foundation and active merchants around 100,000. All of this really, most importantly, it's just a good foundation for us to enlarge our market and basically the strong start for our international expansion, which we always had as a target for many years.

活躍消費者1200萬，基礎比較好，活躍商家約10萬。所有這一切實際上、最重要的是，這為我們擴大市場奠定了良好的基礎，也為我們國際擴張提供了良好的開端，而這多年來一直是我們的目標。

David, back to you.

大衛，回到你身邊。

Thanks, Mikheil. So I'll run you through the financial results for 2024, guidance outlook for 2025. So starting on the payments platform foundation really of the business. I think overall message from this slide is that payment growth remains strong and actually highly predictable and consistent throughout the year. So this is volumes, volumes up 33% year-on-year in the fourth quarter and up 40% for the full year.

謝謝，米哈伊爾。因此，我將向您介紹 2024 年的財務表現和 2025 年的指導前景。因此，業務的真正起點是支付平台基礎。我認為這張投影片傳達的整體訊息是，支付成長仍然強勁，而且實際上全年都具有高度可預測性和一致性。所以這是交易量，第四季交易量年增 33%，全年交易量成長 40%。

Ongoing strong volume growth reflects the strength of the respective products. Ongoing growth in the merchant base, it was up 27% year-on-year for 2024 and a healthy end customer environment, both consumers and merchants consumer balances in wallets were up 22% year-on-year.

持續強勁的銷售成長體現了各自產品的實力。商家基礎持續成長，2024 年年增 27%，終端客戶環境健康，消費者和商家消費者皮夾餘額年增 22%。

Volumes then translate into TPV growth. Again, the drivers here remain very, very predictable, led by QR and B2B products. B2B in 2025 will continue to outperform. Mild take rate dilution, that is a reflection of changes in mix, QR and B2B becoming more important. But in the mix, they're lower take rate products. And that dilution is consistent for those of you who have followed us since 2020, that dilution is consistent with long-run trends.

產量隨後會轉化為 TPV 的成長。同樣，這裡的驅動因素仍然非常非常可預測，主要由二維碼和 B2B 產品主導。2025 年 B2B 將繼續表現出色。溫和的接受率稀釋，這是產品組合變化的反映，QR 和 B2B 變得更加重要。但總體而言，它們是接受率較低的產品。對於自 2020 年以來一直關注我們的人來說，這種稀釋是一致的，這種稀釋與長期趨勢一致。

In terms of what that then means for revenue, lower take rate year-on-year and also lower as what happened over '24 interest rates for 11 months of the year moved down. that meant lower liquidity revenue. So the result is overall payments revenue growth below transaction growth, but still up 23% for the year, up 19% for the fourth quarter.

就這對收入意味著什麼而言，接受率年減，隨著 24 年內 11 個月的利率下降，接受率也下降。這意味著流動性收入減少。因此，結果是整體支付收入成長低於交易成長，但全年仍成長 23%，第四季成長 19%。

Again, for those of you who have followed us since 2020, consistently with payments, you've seen tight cost control, operational gearing, top line dropping through to the bottom line. In 2024, that remained the case. Bottom line growth of 22% in the fourth quarter versus 19% revenue growth and 24% for the full year ahead of 23% revenue growth for the year. Bottom line growth for 2024 of 24%, pretty much bang in line with the around 25% guidance that we provided exactly 12 months ago.

再說一次，對於那些自 2020 年以來一直關注我們的人來說，在支付方面，您已經看到了嚴格的成本控制、營運槓桿、營收下降到利潤。到 2024 年，情況依然如此。第四季獲利成長 22%，營收成長 19%，全年獲利成長 24%，全年營收成長 23%。2024 年的底線成長率為 24%，與我們 12 個月前提供的約 25% 的預期基本一致。

So moving on to then the marketplace platform. Marketplace is and should remain the fastest-growing platform within the business. What you actually saw this is purchases and acceleration in purchases in the fourth quarter, up 48% year-on-year versus plus 42% for the full year, a combination of promotional funds and grocery being the reason for that acceleration. And overall, very, very solid trends.

接下來我們將轉向市場平台。市場現在是並將繼續是該行業內成長最快的平台。您實際上看到的是第四季度的購買量和購買速度加速，年增 48%，而全年增長 42%，促銷資金和雜貨的結合是購買速度加速的原因。整體而言，趨勢非常非常穩固。

In terms of what purchases mean for GMV growth, we talked at both the H1 stage and at the Q3 stage, how we expected strong GMV trends in the fourth quarter, an acceleration versus the third quarter, primarily because of the timing of Juma, and that is exactly what played out Q4 GMV growth up 39%. If you remember, Q3 -- sorry, Q4 GMV growth, up 39%. Q3 GMV growth was up 24% and for the year, full year GMV growth up 44%.

關於購買對於 GMV 成長的意義，我們在上半年和第三季都討論過，我們預計第四季度的 GMV 趨勢將強勁，較第三季度有所加速，這主要是因為 Juma 的時機，而這正是第四季度 GMV 增長 39% 的原因。如果你還記得的話，第三季——抱歉，第四季的 GMV 成長率是 39%。第三季 GMV 成長 24%，全年 GMV 成長 44%。

In terms of the drivers behind that, what's important now is that e-commerce is equal in size to m-Commerce. So if you think about what's been happening directionally over time is that m-Commerce or payments merchants migrated to m-Commerce, m-Commerce merchants have migrated to e-Commerce, and e-Commerce now has real scale and should continue to see very, very fast growth.

就背後的驅動因素而言，目前重要的是電子商務的規模與行動商務相當。因此，如果你思考一下隨著時間的推移發生的事情，你會發現行動商務或支付商家遷移到行動商務，行動商務商家遷移到電子商務，而電子商務現在已經有了真正的規模，並且應該會繼續保持非常非常快速的成長。

Ongoing take rate expansion primarily reflects the benefit of value-added services, advertising and delivery. Mikheil talked about them at the beginning, and they're adding around 170 bps to GMV growth. For 2025, in terms of the quarterly timing of Juma events, you should assume it's consistent with 2024.

持續的收費率擴大主要反映了增值服務、廣告和配送的好處。Mikheil 在一開始就談到了他們，他們為 GMV 成長貢獻了約 170 個基點。對於 2025 年，就 Juma 活動的季度時間而言，您應該假設它與 2024 年一致。

So e-Commerce, the fastest-growing component of marketplace very, very strong numbers, pretty much across the board, general goods, e-Cars and e-Grocery or contributing and in particular, as Mikheil flagged earlier, e-Grocery very, very strong. E-Commerce is the main beneficiary of the value-added services, particularly delivering.

因此，電子商務是市場成長最快的組成部分，其成長勢頭非常強勁，幾乎涵蓋了所有領域，包括一般商品、電動車和電子雜貨，尤其是如 Mikheil 之前提到的，電子雜貨的成長勢頭非常非常強勁。電子商務是加值服務，尤其是快遞服務的主要受益者。

That's relevant really only for e-Commerce and you see that in take rate moving up again, both for the fourth quarter to an all-time high of 11.6% and for the year to 11.3%. So the combination of value-added services the timing of promotional events Juma in Q4, contributing to that very strong take rate at the end of the year.

這實際上只與電子商務有關，你會看到其接受率再次上升，第四季度達到歷史最高的 11.6%，全年達到 11.3%。因此，增值服務與第四季度 Juma 促銷活動的時機相結合，促成了年底非常強勁的接受率。

On m-Commerce, as I flagged that is now -- that is the slower growing component of m-Commerce. We talked about the Q3 numbers how m-Commerce is very promo sensitive. You might remember that in Q3, GMV growth was down 5% year-on-year. You see that in the fourth quarter, it was up 21% year-on-year. So again, that's what we described, the benefit of promotional campaigns in the fourth quarter.

關於行動商務，正如我現在所指出的——這是行動商務中成長較慢的部分。我們討論了第三季的數據，顯示行動商務對促銷非常敏感。您可能還記得，第三季 GMV 成長率年減了 5%。你看第四季年增了21%。再次，這就是我們所描述的第四季度促銷活動的好處。

GMV up 21% for the fourth quarter and solid overall 19% for the full year, whilst the growth may be slower again, m-Commerce take rate hitting all-time highs, a reflection of the value this product brings to the merchants. And again, even with slower growth and additional value proposition is that this drives merchant onboarding for e-Commerce as merchants become more sophisticated and ready to sell remotely.

第四季GMV成長21%，全年整體成長19%，雖然成長速度可能再次放緩，但行動商務的接受率創下歷史新高，反映了該產品為商家帶來的價值。而且，即使成長放緩，但額外的價值主張仍會推動商家加入電子商務，因為商家變得更加成熟並準備好進行遠端銷售。

Kaspi travel, really just solid trends for both the fourth quarter and the full year, 30% GMV growth in the fourth quarter, 34% GMV growth for the full year. Take rate moving up to 5% for the fourth quarter, approximately 40 bps. And up to 4.6% for the full year against all-time high take rates. The reason Mikheil flagged at the beginning is travel, travel is tours. Tours both additive to GMV and additive to ticket size and now representing 9% of the mix from pretty much 0 to 18 months ago.

Kaspi travel 第四季和全年的趨勢都非常穩健，第四季 GMV 成長 30%，全年 GMV 成長 34%。將第四季利率上調至 5%，約 40 個基點。全年利率高達 4.6%，創歷史新高。Mikheil 一開始垂涎的原因是旅行，旅行就是旅遊。旅遊行程既增加了商品交易總額 (GMV)，也增加了門票規模，目前佔比約為 9%，而 18 個月前基本上都是 0%。

So to wrap up on the marketplace, what you've then seen is that strong GMV growth, 39% in the fourth quarter, 44% for the full year, plus take rate expansion mainly as a result of value-added services. Here, this is adding up to a faster revenue growth of 43% in the fourth quarter, up 64% for the full year.

總結市場狀況，您會發現 GMV 強勁成長，第四季成長 39%，全年成長 44%，另外，主要由於增值服務而導致的費率擴大。這意味著第四季營收成長更快，達到 43%，全年營收成長 64%。

Net income growth is slower, and that reflects change in mix as 1P, primarily grocery and also 1P cars, growing shares, something we've talked about over the last 18 months, but even taking that into account, marketplace still delivered bottom line growth of 41% for the full year, making it on all metrics, our fastest growing platform.

淨收入增長較慢，這反映了 1P 組合的變化，主要是雜貨，以及 1P 汽車，份額不斷增長，這是我們在過去 18 個月中一直談論的事情，但即使考慮到這一點，市場仍然實現了全年 41% 的底線增長，從所有指標來看，它都是我們增長最快的平台。

And then finally, moving on to the fintech platform. Actually, TFE loan origination, you've seen very healthy and consistent trends now over several years. That remained the case over the last 12 months, origination up 21% in the fourth quarter, up 30% for the full year. Conversion, 2.1 times, that's an indication of how quickly people repay their loans. And the message there is that the trend is stable.

最後，轉向金融科技平台。實際上，就 TFE 貸款發放而言，您已經看到了過去幾年非常健康且一致的趨勢。過去 12 個月的情況依然如此，第四季貸款發放量成長 21%，全年成長 30%。轉換率為 2.1 倍，這表明人們償還貸款的速度有多快。而那裡傳達的訊息是趨勢是穩定的。

A healthy consumer is repaying normally, roughly on average within six months, number one. And number two, in terms of the growth drivers, again, the growth drivers are loan products integrated with marketplace, so that's buy now pay later, but increasingly, really merchant financing and car financing, which are both integrated with marketplace and car financing, specifically with e-Cars and Kolesa, this is the relative expensive for the general purpose loan, which will continue to decline in share.

健康的消費者會正常還款，大約平均在六個月內，是第一名。第二，就成長動力而言，成長動力還是與市場結合的貸款產品，即先買後付，但越來越多的商家融資和汽車融資都與市場和汽車融資相結合，特別是電動車和 Kolesa，這對於通用貸款來說相對較貴，其份額將繼續下降。

Loan portfolio, some time now growing faster than deposits, some more efficient use of the balance sheet. In the fourth quarter, loan portfolio of 37% versus deposits up 23% for the full year. The loan-to-deposit ratio moving up to 88% from 78% in 2023. So that, again, was one of the factors that contributed positively to the acceleration in fintech earnings growth in the final -- particularly in the final quarter of the year.

貸款組合，有時候會比存款成長得更快，有時會更有效地利用資產負債表。第四季度，貸款佔比為 37%，而全年存款佔比增長了 23%。貸存比將從2023年的78%上升至88%。因此，這再次成為推動金融科技獲利在最後一個季度（尤其是今年最後一個季度）加速成長的積極因素之一。

That is even taking into account some yield dilution. So that yield dilution, again, is a reflection of mix changes -- product mix changes and is consistent with the trend that you've also seen now for many years in the business, and I think would be a reasonable base case to assume continues as BNPL and merchant financing grow their share within the mix.

即使考慮到一些收益稀釋。因此，殖利率稀釋再次反映了產品組合的變化——產品組合的變化，這與你多年來在該行業看到的趨勢一致，而且我認為，隨著 BNPL 和商業融資在產品組合中的份額不斷增加，可以合理地假設這種趨勢將繼續下去。

The deposit growth of 27% for the full year, whilst it's slower than the loan portfolio growth, still actually incredibly strong growth, particularly given the context of our scale in local currency deposits.

全年存款成長率為 27%，雖然低於貸款組合成長率，但實際上仍然是非常強勁的成長，特別是考慮到我們本幣存款的規模。

In terms of risk and credit metrics, really no change at all. Metrics very, very consistent over the last 12 months and over a longer period of time. That's both on the origination and on the collection side of things. And again, it's just indicative of a very stable predictable end customer consumer merchant environment, which you see throughout the business, whether we're talking about payments or we're talking about trends in savings some of the other areas.

就風險和信用指標而言，實際上沒有任何變化。在過去 12 個月以及更長一段時間內，指標非常非常一致。這既涉及事物的起源，也涉及事物的收集面。再說一次，這只是表明一個非常穩定、可預測的最終客戶消費者商家環境，您可以在整個業務中看到這一點，無論我們談論的是支付，還是其他領域的儲蓄趨勢。

And so again, I think this is a realistic base case to carry forward. Best indication of that is actually probably in cost of risk, 2.1x -- sorry, 2.1% for full year '24 versus 2% for full year '23. So it's stable now over a long period of time.

因此，我再次認為，這是一個值得繼續前進的現實基本情況。最好的跡象實際上可能是風險成本，2.1 倍——抱歉，24 年全年為 2.1%，而 23 年全年為 2%。因此它在很長一段時間內都是穩定的。

NPL coverage is lower. This is something we flagged at the H1 and Q3 results, and that just reflects growth in the collateralized car loan product. It's collateralized. It requires less provisioning. Number two, just continued strong and actually improving collection stats from NPLs, you'd expect this to stay broadly stable or increase slightly in 2025.

不良貸款覆蓋率較低。這是我們上半年和第三季業績中指出的一點，這反映了抵押汽車貸款產品的成長。它是有抵押的。它需要較少的配置。第二，不良貸款的催收數據持續強勁且實際改善，預計到 2025 年將保持大致穩定或略有增加。

So then finally, to wrap up on fintech revenue, strong healthy origination even with yield dilution translates into strong healthy revenue growth of 26% in the fourth quarter or 25% for the full year. We flagged both at H1, and we flagged at Q3 that the combination of the faster growth in loans versus deposits, number one. And interest rate cuts earlier on at the beginning of 2024 would translate into slower growth in funding costs and faster growth in fintech earnings in the second half and in particularly the fourth quarter of the year.

最後，總結金融科技收入，即使收益率被稀釋，強勁健康的起源也意味著第四季度強勁健康的收入成長 26% 或全年 25%。我們在上半年就標記了這兩項，並且在第三季度標記了貸款相對於存款的更快增長，這是第一點。而2024年初提前降息將意味著下半年，特別是第四季融資成本成長放緩，金融科技收益成長加快。

And again, that's exactly what you saw play out bottom line growth of 28% in the fourth quarter or 12% for the full year. I think the caveat to that would be what you did have in -- or the partial caveats, that would be what you did have in December is that rates once again actually moved up. So certainly, when we talk to the market in October, that wasn't something that I think any of us were expecting that did have implications for the bottom line in December.

這正是您所看到的，第四季獲利成長 28%，全年獲利成長 12%。我認為對此的警告就是你在 12 月確實遇到的——或者部分警告就是利率實際上再次上漲。因此，當我們在十月與市場進行溝通時，我認為我們沒有人預料到這種情況會發生，而且這種情況會對十二月份的利潤產生影響。

So when you look at the 12% growth versus guidance of around 15%, that's why rates moving up in December. And also what it means for 2025 -- sorry, yes, 2025, what we had said last year is that as rates continue to move down fintech earnings would be a beneficiary of that. I think you should look into 2025. Now a reasonable assumption would be that rates will stay higher for longer. I mean, this isn't actually inconsistent with trends in many parts of the world, and that probably means that fintech bottom line growth goes slower -- grows slower than fintech top line growth in 2025.

因此，當你看到 12% 的成長率與 15% 左右的指導值相比，這就是 12 月利率上升的原因。這對 2025 年意味著什麼——抱歉，是的，2025 年，我們去年說過，隨著利率持續下降，金融科技收益將從中受益。我認為你應該展望 2025 年。現在一個合理的假設是利率將在較長時間內維持在高點。我的意思是，這實際上與世界許多地方的趨勢並不矛盾，這可能意味著金融科技的底線成長會變得更慢——到 2025 年，成長速度將低於金融科技的頂線成長。

Overall, to sum it all up, strong growth in line with guidance across all of our platforms, ultimately, 25% bottom line growth for the year, exactly in line with the around 25% guidance that we provided on this day 12 months ago. So pretty good results across the business, again, particularly when you take into account the scale that we now have. This slide really is just summarizing what I've just talked through, so I'll leave that one there.

總體而言，總而言之，所有平台都實現了強勁增長，符合預期，全年利潤增長率最終達到 25％，與我們 12 個月前的今天提供的約 25％ 的預期完全一致。因此，整個業務的業績相當不錯，特別是當你考慮到我們目前的規模時。這張投影片其實只是總結了我剛剛講過的內容，因此我就不重複了。

Moving on to the guidance for 2025. I think, I would just say that, number one, we are simplifying our approach guidance is GMV, TPV and TFE versus last year revenue. Actually, this reflects investor feedback preference. So these very high level metrics, number one. Number two, as the business becomes more complicated, we'll provide guidance, just the bottom line guidance just for the consolidated business as a whole rather than at a platform level.

繼續制定 2025 年的指導方針。我想，我只想說，第一，我們正在簡化我們的方法指導，即 GMV、TPV 和 TFE 與去年的收入相比。其實，這反映了投資人的回饋偏好。所以這些是非常進階的指標，第一。第二，隨著業務變得越來越複雜，我們將提供指導，僅針對整個合併業務而不是平台層面的底線指導。

From a reporting perspective, nothing changes. This is simply a change in approach to guidance, but all the metrics, including net income on a platform level will continue to be provided. Bottom ultimately here, we're looking for bottom line guidance of around 20%. This excludes Turkey, it's our intention for the remainder of this year to guide excluding Turkey, but I think over time, it would be a reasonable assumption that it would be brought into the guidance on the midterm perspective.

從報道的角度來看，沒有任何變化。這只是指導方法的改變，但包括平台層面的淨收入在內的所有指標都將繼續提供。最終的底線是，我們期待約 20% 的底線指導。這不包括土耳其，我們打算在今年剩餘時間內將土耳其排除在外，但我認為隨著時間的推移，可以合理地假設它將被納入中期指導範圍。

So that wraps up on the guidance side of things. I would reiterate two points that Mikheil made. So point number one, on the dividend, our track record, I think, of returning the excess cash to our shareholders is long established. Funding of the KZT1.1 billion investment in Hepsiburada, will come from operating cash flow generated between Q4 and across the first half of this year, we'll be in a better position -- we'll be able to update on cash returns, whether that be dividends or buybacks in the second half of the year.

這就是關於指導方面的事情。我想重申米哈伊爾提出的兩點。所以第一點，關於股息，我認為，我們向股東返還多餘現金的記錄由來已久。對赫普西布拉達的 11 億堅戈投資資金將來自第四季度至今年上半年產生的經營現金流，我們將處於更有利的地位——我們將能夠更新現金回報，無論是股息還是下半年的回購。

So that was one point to reiterate and the second point to reiterate again, Hepsiburada is please keep in mind. It is an independent publicly traded company, its own management, independent Board members and very importantly, its own shareholders, important developments need to be communicated by, then it wouldn't be appropriate for us to front run the communications. So please keep that in mind.

所以這是需要重申的一點，第二點需要再次重申，請記住 Hepsiburada。它是一家獨立的上市公司，有自己的管理階層、獨立的董事會成員，而且非常重要的一點是，有自己的股東，因此需要傳達重要的發展動態，如果由我們來搶先傳達，那就不合適了。所以請記住這一點。

Well, on that note, let's open the call up to Q&A, please.

好吧，就此而言，讓我們開始問答環節。

Thank you David. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝你，大衛。我們現在開始問答環節。（操作員指令）

So Breka, let's take -- Breka, let's take Darrin from Wolfe's question first, please.

那麼 Breka，讓我們先來回答 Wolfe 提出的問題，請 Breka 回答 Darrin 的問題。

Perfect. Darrin?

完美的。達林？

Nice job exiting the year in this growth format. Can I just ask about guidance for a moment. I mean, when you look at the 20%, I guess, there's puts and takes, both on the fintech from a net income standpoint and interest income standpoint, but more importantly, the drivers, really the drivers that you're looking at exiting the year are materially higher than what you're implying in your underlying growth assumptions from a KPI standpoint, just looking at marketplace GMV expected, I think you said 25% to 30% or even payments in the 15%, 20% versus the exit rates.

以這樣的成長形式結束這一年，真是不錯。可以稍微詢問一下指導嗎？我的意思是，當你看 20% 時，我想，從淨收入和利息收入的角度來看，金融科技都有利弊，但更重要的是，驅動因素，實際上，你所看到的今年退出時的驅動因素，從 KPI 的角度來看，明顯高於你在基本增長假設中所暗示的，只看市場 GMV 預期，我認為你說的 25%。

Can you just touch on maybe what's conservatism built in versus any implications or factors that are going to drive some a deceleration in those manners on those KPIs? Or is it just size of the business?

您能否簡單談談其中的保守主義以及哪些影響或因素會導致這些 KPI 的成長放緩？還是只是企業規模的問題？

So thanks for your question, Darrin. I'll make two points and then maybe Mikheil want to add something. So the first thing is, is guidance conservative, is guidance aggressive? Just take it on face value. That would be my advice and I wouldn't over try to -- over interpret. That's one simple point.

謝謝你的提問，達林。我將提出兩點，然後也許米哈伊爾想補充一些內容。因此，首先要考慮的是，引導是保守的還是激進的？只需相信其表面意義即可。這是我的建議，我不會過度嘗試──過度解讀。這是一個簡單的觀點。

The second point, more specific to your question. I think that all the trends that I've just described there in 2024, pretty much you can assume carryforward into 2025. So for example, on payments, we talked about take rate dilution long-run trend as Kaspi QR and B2B grow in the mix.

第二點，針對您的問題更具體地說。我認為，我剛才在 2024 年所描述的所有趨勢幾乎都可以延續到 2025 年。例如，在支付方面，我們討論了隨著 Kaspi QR 和 B2B 的成長，利率稀釋的長期趨勢。

On fintech, again, we talked about yield dilution as our certain products grow in the mix. These things are what explain the difference between top line and bottom line and then also, again, particularly, I think, on the fintech, I think that the scenario -- the situation we're in today is different to where the world was three months ago, when we had this call or four months ago when we had this call, we were talking about rates potentially continuing to move down, a nice tailwind to FinTech bottom line.

在金融科技方面，我們再次討論了隨著某些產品的成長，殖利率稀釋的問題。這些因素解釋了頂線和底線之間的差異，而且，特別地，我認為，在金融科技方面，我認為我們今天所處的情形與三個月前或四個月前我們接到這個電話時的情況不同，當時我們談論的是利率可能繼續下降，這對金融科技的底線來說是一個很好的順風。

Actually, not only are they not moving down, but they've just moved up or they moved up at the end of last year, and we'll see what happens over the next couple of months. So that's clearly a change in the outlook. But overall, 20% guidance versus 25% last year is a reflection of the scale of the business.

實際上，它們不僅沒有下降，而且剛剛上漲，或者在去年年底就上漲了，我們將看看未來幾個月會發生什麼。所以這顯然是觀點的改變。但總體而言，20% 的預期成長率（去年為 25%）反映了業務規模。

Right. Okay. That's helpful. And then -- so it sounds like it's really just the larger base more than anything underlying in the business changing much. And then my follow-up would just be on -- a quick follow-up on Turkey and Hepsiburada. Just -- maybe just remind us of the time line and your hopes. What are you hoping to see in terms of integration and opportunities there? And just further internationalization more broadly by the end of this year and maybe into '26. It's a broader question, but I know that was -- it was great to see the closing of that in just a couple of months ago.

正確的。好的。這很有幫助。然後 — — 因此聽起來，這實際上只是更大的基礎，而不是業務中任何潛在的變化。然後我的跟進就是──快速跟進土耳其和赫普西布拉達。只是——也許只是提醒我們時間表和您的希望。您希望看到那裡的融合和機會是什麼？到今年年底，甚至可能到26年，我們將進一步實現更廣泛的國際化。這是一個更廣泛的問題，但我知道——很高興看到這個問題在幾個月前就結束了。

Mikheil do you want to add anything on Hepsiburada or Turkey?

米哈伊爾 (Mikheil)，你想補充一些關於赫普西布拉達 (Hepsiburada) 或土耳其的內容嗎？

Well, I mean, just to kind of repeat myself, it's a big market. We do see a lot of opportunities in the mobile services and on the merchants, the consumer side. So yes, I mean, we are -- it's a good strong foundation for us. The country's economic policies are providing its positive effect of normalizing the inflation and the macro outlook with -- as it happens with these type of changes the consumer sentiment might be a bit challenging during the year.

嗯，我只是想重複一下，這是一個很大的市場。我們確實在行動服務、商家和消費者方面看到了很多機會。是的，我的意思是，這對我們來說是一個很好的基礎。該國的經濟政策正在發揮其正常化通膨和宏觀前景的積極作用——然而，隨著這些變化的發生，消費者情緒在今年可能會面臨一些挑戰。

But yes, other than that, we are excited about the opportunity and Hepsiburada serving 12 million consumers 100,000 merchants is a good platform. And we are also considering launching exploring services as Kaspi itself. So yes, so it's -- in general, it's a really exciting market, very similar to Kazakhstan from the consumer dynamics perspective.

但是的，除此之外，我們對這個機會感到非常興奮，Hepsiburada 為 1200 萬消費者和 10 萬家商家提供服務，是一個很好的平台。我們也在考慮推出像 Kaspi 這樣的探索服務。是的，總的來說，這是一個非常令人興奮的市場，從消費者動態的角度來看，與哈薩克非常相似。

But again, David said that, and I said that Hepsiburada is a public company, so they will focus on their own numbers. And yes, we're just -- we'll be focused on the quality of the products, innovations and things like that, which Kaspi has a very strong track record of executing.

但是，大衛再次這樣說，我說過，Hepsiburada 是一家上市公司，所以他們會關注自己的數字。是的，我們只是——我們將專注於產品品質、創新等等，Kaspi 在執行方面有著非常出色的記錄。

And keep in mind, we're three, four weeks, right? We just closed transaction on January 29. And there is the one thing also to keep in mind, I think everybody who has been with us for many years, we always prefer the results talk for ourselves. And I think that would be the same approach. So it's not like -- I think we just want to work on the products, work on the services, work on a consumer and merchant services quality, but also innovations and launching some services. And again, including Kaspi launching its services itself on a stand-alone basis.

請記住，我們已經三、四周了，對吧？我們剛在1月29日完成交易。還有一件事要記住，我想對我們而言，與我們在一起多年的每一個人都總是希望用結果來說話。我認為這將是同樣的方法。所以，我認為我們不僅想致力於產品、服務、消費者和商家服務質量，還想進行創新並推出一些服務。並且，包括 Kaspi 自己在獨立基礎上推出其服務。

James Friedman, SIG.

詹姆斯·弗里德曼，SIG。

So I just -- you had some observations about the macro environment in Kazakhstan. If you could just reiterate what it is that you're seeing and anticipating. I know, there's been a lot of movement in interest rates, but also on the inflation front, sometimes that could be a good guy, bad guy. Anyway, any perspective that you're sharing on Kazakhstan macro would be helpful.

所以我只是——你對哈薩克的宏觀環境有一些觀察。如果您可以重申您所看到的和預期的內容。我知道，利率發生了很大的變動，但在通貨膨脹方面，有時這可能是好事，也可能是壞事。無論如何，您分享的有關哈薩克斯坦宏觀的任何觀點都會有所幫助。

All right, James. So I'll just take macro very quickly. So I think simple message here is that we see, for the most part, a very stable, predictable environment with consumer trends, consumer and merchant trends consistent really with the last 18 months, if not longer. And I guess, ultimately, the evidence of that is you can look at the guidance, payments.

好的，詹姆斯。因此我會快速進行微距拍攝。因此，我認為這裡的簡單訊息是，我們看到，在大多數情況下，這是一個非常穩定、可預測的環境，消費者趨勢、消費者和商家趨勢與過去 18 個月甚至更長的時間保持一致。我想，最終的證據就是您可以查看指導和付款。

Payments is a big business for us and in the context of the country. Growth is still this year, we're guiding for 15% to 20%. So that is indicative of those volume numbers we showed you for both marketplace and purchases. That is indicative of, at least in part, it's not just on macro, but in part stable macro in environment. So that's the main factor.

無論對我們還是對整個國家來說，支付都是一項大業務。今年仍保持成長，我們預計將成長 15% 至 20%。這顯示了我們向您展示的市場和購買量數字。這至少在某種程度上表明，這不僅存在於宏觀層面，而且在某種程度上存在於穩定的宏觀環境中。這是主要因素。

I would say just the one caveat, I wouldn't overplay it. It's really only relevant for our fintech business, and it's probably just a timing issue. The combination of currency weakness, currency weakness translates into higher inflation, higher inflation translates into interest rates moving up. That's the only real change that I can point to over the last couple of months.

我只想說一個警告，我不會誇大其詞。這實際上只與我們的金融科技業務有關，而且可能只是一個時機問題。貨幣疲軟會導致通貨膨脹上升，通貨膨脹上升又會導致利率上升。這是過去幾個月我能指出的唯一真正的改變。

But again, let's not overplay that. I think it's not inconsistent with global trends that inflation is moving down more slowly that rates are moving down more slowly. And the good news is that rates and funding costs for our business are high.

但是，我們還是不要過度強調這一點。我認為通膨下降速度較慢和利率下降速度較慢與全球趨勢並不矛盾。好消息是，我們業務的利率和融資成本都很高。

And so whilst there may be timing and take longer to come down directionally, I think it's still a reasonable assumption over the next years -- next few years that they will come down, and that will have the potential to be a nice tailwind for the business, maybe not in 2025, but in '26 onwards. So let's just see how things evolve over the next couple of months.

因此，儘管可能需要時間和更長的時間才能確定方向，但我認為在未來幾年內，這仍然是一個合理的假設——未來幾年，它們將會下降，並且有可能成為業務的良好順風，也許不是在 2025 年，但會在 2026 年以後。所以讓我們看看未來幾個月的情況如何發展。

Yes. And David, just to add also the temporary or end of the year interest exchange rates increasing, I think it also was very encouraging and to see and the testament to the national bank and the government that they patiently work through this process. And it was basically driven by the market. And it was -- yes, it was very encouraging to see that the free market and exchange rate flexibility actually eventually improved.

是的。戴維，還要補充一點，暫時或年底的利率匯率上升，我認為這也非常令人鼓舞，看到國家銀行和政府耐心地完成這一過程，這是證明。這基本上是由市場驅動的。是的，看到自由市場和匯率彈性最終得到改善是非常令人鼓舞的。

So the exchange rate now is back below or around 500, about 5% less than it was end of the year. So that was -- yes, that's good. Well, well managed, but also it was pretty much the market driving up and down, which is a testament to the patients of the government and national bank doing it, like managing this properly.

因此，現在匯率又回到了 500 以下或 500 左右，比年底低了約 5％。是的，那很好。嗯，管理得很好，但同時基本上也是市場上下波動，證明了政府和國家銀行的耐心，就像妥善管理這件事一樣。

Yes. And then question about Hepsiburada. I'm sorry, go ahead, Mikheil.

是的。然後是關於赫普西布拉達 (Hepsiburada) 的問題。抱歉，請說，米哈伊爾。

Yes, just one thing also to keep in mind that Kazakhstan is not immune also from the regional geopolitical trends and that also, obviously, perception of investors is there and that has its own impact as well, positive, negative, whatever it is, it clearly has played its own factor in the dynamics. So just to keep in mind as well. But you know this better than me, of course.

是的，還有一點要記住，哈薩克斯坦也不能免受地區地緣政治趨勢的影響，而且顯然投資者的看法也存在，這也有其自身的影響，無論是積極的還是消極的，無論是什麼，它顯然在動態中發揮了自身的因素。所以也要記住。但當然你比我更了解這一點。

And then in terms of Hepsiburada, so one question we get is about the margin characteristics of their business versus your business. Is that a conversation or assignment that Kaspi will be engaged with? Or is that all under their auspices? We're just trying to figure out who's authoring the margin messaging?

然後就 Hepsiburada 而言，我們收到的一個問題是關於他們的業務與您的業務相比的利潤特徵。這是卡斯皮將要參與的對話或任務嗎？或者這一切都是在他們的支持下進行的？我們只是想弄清楚誰是邊際資訊的作者？

James, if I understand the question. I think you should -- let's not over complicate it. Hepsiburada's management report into Hepsiburada's Board. Kaspi controls Hepsiburada's Board. So like any company, it's a conversation between senior management and the board on all aspects of financial performance. It's nothing different at Hepsiburada versus any other company.

詹姆斯，如果我理解了這個問題。我認為你應該——我們不要讓它過於複雜。Hepsiburada 的管理層向 Hepsiburada 董事會報告。Kaspi 控制著 Hepsiburada 的董事會。因此，與任何公司一樣，這是高階管理層和董事會之間就財務業績各個方面進行的對話。Hepsiburada 與其他公司並沒有什麼不同。

So is there a plan to drive margin expansion in Hepsiburada?

那麼，是否有一個計劃來推動赫普西布拉達的利潤率擴大？

So again, the same comment. Hepsiburada reports quarterly, it provides quite detailed updates on its strategy. Its strategy can evolve, and it needs to be communicated by them. But I think it would be unfair on Hepsiburada's other shareholders. If we said that they have to listen to the Kaspi call to find out what's going on at the company that would not be the appropriate way for Hepsiburada to communicate.

再次重申一次同樣的評論。Hepsiburada 每季都會發布一份報告，提供有關其策略的相當詳細的更新。它的策略可以不斷發展，並且需要他們進行溝通。但我認為這對 Hepsiburada 的其他股東來說不公平。如果我們說他們必須聽 Kaspi 的電話才能了解公司的情況，那麼這並不是 Hepsiburada 合適的溝通方式。

Ygal Arounian, Citigroup.

花旗集團的 Ygal Arounian。

Maybe first, just to focus on the marketplace segment. In the letter, Mikheil, you talked about that continuing to be the most important growth engine this year. We got a number of initiatives that are still pretty early. As we think about this year -- maybe this year or next year, are those the key initiatives that we should expect to be the major focus on the new initiatives that are kind of coming down the pipe?

也許首先只是關注市場部分。米哈伊爾，在信中您談到這將繼續成為今年最重要的成長引擎。我們提出的一些倡議仍處於早期階段。當我們思考今年——也許是今年或明年——時，這些是否是我們應該預期成為即將到來的新舉措主要關注點的關鍵舉措？

How should we think about that? And with -- I know it's early on Hepsiburada and Turkey and kind of all the things you talked about. But is there a plan or intention to kind of roll out products like auto and grocery and some of the newer ones that are working really well in Kazakhstan, our in Turkey as well?

我們該如何思考這個問題？而且——我知道現在還處於關於赫普西布拉達 (Hepsiburada) 和土耳其的早期階段，以及您所談論的所有事情。但是，是否有計劃或意圖推出汽車和雜貨等產品以及一些在哈薩克和土耳其都賣得很好的新產品？

Ygal, good to hear from you, and thanks for the questions. In terms of the marketplace, the way to really think about it is the way that historically and as we'll explain this trend before, both consumers and merchants, they initially come to our payments business, then they move to the m-Commerce and then eventual destination is e-Commerce.

Ygal，很高興收到您的來信，感謝您的提問。就市場而言，真正思考這個問題的方式是，從歷史上看，正如我們之前解釋過的這種趨勢，無論是消費者還是商家，他們最初都是來到我們的支付業務，然後他們轉向行動商務，最終的目的地是電子商務。

And this is both true for merchants and consumers. Because e-commerce is actually much more advanced, fully digital experience, fully online, fully mobile, like 100%. There is no offline part of it, apart from us actually managing the delivery in the real off-line world.

對於商家和消費者都是如此。因為電子商務實際上更加先進，完全數位體驗，完全在線，完全移動，100％左右。除了我們實際在現實離線世界中管理交付之外，它沒有離線部分。

So from that perspective, the nature of the marketplace growth and also the fact that the services of the marketplace and especially e-Commerce are the least penetrated. So those are the factors which will support the growth of the marketplace.

因此從這個角度來看，市場成長的性質以及市場服務（尤其是電子商務）的滲透率最低。這些都是支持市場成長的因素。

Again, if you look at the previous years, our payments was growing faster. Then our m-Commerce was growing faster and now e-Commerce. So this is the value chain that you see. e-Grocery being the least penetrated businesses has the biggest potential.

再者，如果你回顧前幾年，我們的付款成長得更快。隨後我們的行動商務發展更快，現在則是電子商務。這就是您所看到的價值鏈。電子雜貨是滲透率最低的業務，但潛力最大。

And -- but we are in the type of business, which operations of our grocery, operations of our e-commerce, which means the window for the grocery and also the marketing guys have -- we have been doing and the consumer experience, we all have been doing this incredible job of generating highly satisfied consumers, which means they are staying with us and they are highly repetitive.

而且——但我們所從事的業務類型是，經營雜貨業務，經營電子商務，這意味著雜貨的窗口，還有營銷人員——我們一直在做的和消費者體驗，我們一直在做這項令人難以置信的工作，以創造高度滿意的消費者，這意味著他們會留在我們這裡，並且會高度重複。

Therefore, the only -- or the major limitation to the growth of the grocery is actually us creating the -- entering the cities, building the dark stores and run -- starting to run the operations and basically providing the suppliers in these dark stores in terms of assortment, which we sell. So this is like demand is there. We are really encouraged and excited to see demand is there. We're just building the infrastructure.

因此，雜貨店成長的唯一或主要限制實際上是我們進入城市，建立幕後商店並運行 - 開始運營，並基本上為這些幕後商店的供應商提供我們銷售的商品組合。所以這就像是存在需求。我們真的很高興也很興奮看到有需求。我們只是在建設基礎建設。

The good news is that we are so execution-driven that we're doing it quite efficiently. But that's basically -- so e-Grocery will grow together with expansion of the dark stores and us entering the new cities, but also growing the -- and increasing efficiency of existing operations, which is never-ending exercise for our management team.

好消息是，我們非常注重執行，因此我們的工作效率很高。但基本上，電子雜貨將隨著幕後商店的擴張和我們進入新城市而成長，同時也提高現有營運的效率，這對我們的管理團隊來說是一項永無止境的工作。

And then, we're just looking at some specific verticals as well. Again, the way to look at this is that we historically started from electronics with the large ticket transactions. If you look at the size of our transaction, it's very different from any other e-Commerce players. Usually, people start from low-ticket transactions and they hope to get up and make business profitable. In our case, we started from high-ticket transactions, which was electronics.

然後，我們也只關註一些特定的垂直產業。再一次，看待這個問題的方式是，我們歷史上是從電子產品的大額交易開始的。如果你看看我們的交易規模，你會發現它與任何其他電子商務參與者都非常不同。通常，人們從低價交易開始，並希望發展並實現盈利。在我們的案例中，我們從高價交易開始，即電子產品。

And now we're moving downstream and the size of average transaction is actually increasing and we are driving the frequency. But this is really exciting because then when you're driving frequency, means you are driving more business. and you already have the network which can deliver those items.

現在我們正在向下游發展，平均交易的規模實際上正在增​​加，而且我們正在提高交易頻率。但這確實令人興奮，因為當你提高頻率時，這意味著你正在推動更多的業務。並且您已經擁有可以運送這些物品的網路。

So you can sustain your profitability while growing e-Commerce because other guys usually going in the -- from the opposite direction. So we're going for new categories. We started with electronics and some of the categories which we are now becoming increasingly strong would be home and garden, would be fashion and some other categories, but they are built up on existing network of the delivery, existing consumers, payment options and so on and so forth.

因此，您可以在發展電子商務的同時保持盈利能力，因為其他人通常會從相反的方向發展。因此，我們要尋找新的類別。我們從電子產品起步，現在我們業務日益強大的一些類別是家居和花園、時尚和一些其他類別，但它們都是建立在現有的配送網絡、現有的消費者、支付選項等基礎上的。

So that's why the marketplace will grow faster for so many reasons. In terms of the Hepsiburada -- for Hepsiburada, I would say that for us, it's just a company which has been built on a very sound financial foundation, which is an important point, and 12 million consumers and 100,000 merchants is also a good foundation.

這就是為什麼市場會因為很多原因而成長更快。就 Hepsiburada 而言——對於 Hepsiburada，我想說，對我們來說，它是一家建立在非常穩健的財務基礎上的公司，這是一個重點，1200 萬消費者和 10 萬商家也是一個良好的基礎。

But again, I don't know, how to say it. We want just to take our time basically and to make sure that the services which are considered can be provided in the market and innovation around those services. But you also should keep in mind that, as I mentioned before, Kaspi can and probably will launch services on a stand-alone basis as Kaspi, right, there is a company in Turkey as well. So all of those things would currently be considering.

但我又不知道該如何表達。我們只是想慢慢來，確保所考慮的服務能夠在市場上提供，並圍繞這些服務進行創新。但你也應該記住，正如我之前提到的，Kaspi 可以而且很可能會以獨立的方式推出服務，因為 Kaspi 在土耳其也有一家公司。因此，所有這些事情目前都在考慮之中。

Okay. Just a quick follow-up on that. Can you just explain the rationale, what the advantages and margin Kaspi stand-alone versus rolling everything off under Hepsiburada or what would be a Hepsiburada product, what will be a Kaspi product?

好的。我只是想快速跟進一下這一點。您能否解釋一下其中的原理，Kaspi 獨立營運與 Hepsiburada 合併營運相比，有何優勢和利潤，或者什麼是 Hepsiburada 產品，什麼是 Kaspi 產品？

Well, I mean, we are looking for ability to launch the services. It does matter who is launching it, right? So if there is ability and there is a knowledge and technology to launch the services, we'll be taking those opportunities. There is nothing short term in this. But again, our target is to launch the services and provide services to the merchants and consumers. That's our goal. And where the services are born or where the service is being developed, it really depends where the capabilities are and where the knowledge is and technology and experience.

嗯，我的意思是，我們正在尋求推出這些服務的能力。誰發起它確實很重要，對吧？因此，如果有能力並且有知識和技術來推出這些服務，我們就會抓住這些機會。這不是什麼短期的事情。但同樣，我們的目標是推出服務並向商家和消費者提供服務。這就是我們的目標。而服務在哪裡誕生或在哪裡開發，實際上取決於能力在哪裡、知識、技術和經驗在哪裡。

All right. Understood. And one more quick follow-up on the macro. I think you probably know better than at least I do so. I'd just like to understand, you talked about the investor perception on the geopolitical trends and the regional conflict comes to an end. What's the reality in terms of the Kazakhstan consumer and their exposure to the conflict and how much healthier they might get if that does come to an end?

好的。明白了。還有一次對宏的快速跟進。我想你可能至少比我更了解。我只是想要了解，您談到了投資者對地緣政治趨勢的看法以及地區衝突的結束。哈薩克消費者的現實狀況如何？他們受到的衝突影響如何？如果衝突結束，他們的健康狀況會好多少？

Do you mean if the -- you mean if conflict is over, what impact that would have on Kazakhstan consumer, that's the question?

你的意思是如果——你的意思是如果衝突結束了，這會對哈薩克消費者產生什麼影響，這是個問題嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Well, I think in general, I mean, I would say that it will -- I mean, of course, it will have a positive impact on various fronts, right? I still would put in front of everything that I think piece for people in the region, I think all of us have again, I mean, it's just -- I mean peace is good for everyone, and I'm highly confident that the geopolitical stability in the region will have a very positive impact on pretty much every country in the region and consumers.

嗯，我認為總的來說，我的意思是，我會說它會——我的意思是，當然，它會對各個方面產生積極影響，對吧？我仍然會把我認為對該地區人民有益的事情放在第一位，我想我們所有人都應該再次強調，和平對每個人都有好處，我非常有信心該地區的地緣政治穩定將對該地區幾乎每個國家和消費者產生非常積極的影響。

So I don't know, David, anything that you can add to this, but I do think that it will have a multiplier effect, and it will be positive for everyone. I mean, most importantly people will stop doing. That's as far as I'm concerned, but also for the countries and economies, I think, should be positive for the whole region.

所以，大衛，我不知道你還能對此補充什麼，但我確實認為它會產生乘數效應，並且對每個人都有正面的影響。我的意思是，最重要的是人們將停止這樣做。就我而言，但對於整個地區的國家和經濟來說，我認為這應該是積極的。

Yes. I mean I can't really add much feed on that. I mean, I just would add, I suppose, keep in mind that from a political perspective, Kazakhstan's navigated a very challenging situation, I think, admirably over the last couple of years. So that's one point I would make. But I think beyond Mikheil's point on the human impact, it would -- this would manifest itself in just broader geopolitical de-risking across the entire region. So from a risk perspective -- a risk normalization perspective, it clearly would be helpful.

是的。我的意思是我真的不能添加太多的飼料。我只是想補充一點，我想，請記住，從政治角度來看，哈薩克在過去幾年中出色地應對了非常具有挑戰性的局勢。這是我要說的一點。但我認為，除了米哈伊爾關於人類影響的觀點之外，這也反映在整個地區更廣泛的地緣政治風險降低。因此從風險角度——風險正常化角度來看，它顯然是有幫助的。

Dan Mikhaylov, Vergent Asset Management.

Dan Mikhaylov，Vergent 資產管理公司。

Congratulations on the results. I just had two quick questions on Hepsiburada. When we look at Hepsiburada, one thing that stands out, that they were among the -- I think they were the first in the Turkish market to do credit in e-Commerce. I think they were the first ones to launch BNPL products they've applied for a deposit license.

恭喜你所取得的成果。我只想問兩個關於 Hepsiburada 的簡短問題。當我們看 Hepsiburada 時，有一件事引人注目，那就是他們是——我認為他們是土耳其市場上第一家在電子商務領域開展信貸業務的公司。我認為他們是第一批推出 BNPL 產品併申請存款許可證的公司。

What do you think -- in your analysis of the company, what do you think you guys can do very differently to the Hepsiburada's existing management in making sure that the credit franchise actually translates into meaningful growth.

您認為—在您對公司的分析中，您認為您可以採取哪些與 Hepsiburada 現有管理截然不同的措施，以確保信貸特許經營權真正轉化為有意義的成長。

And the second question, do you plan to kind of -- what's -- do you plan keep any of existing senior executives at Hepsiburada? Or will you be bringing a lot more Kaspi people to run the business as you become more familiar with it?

第二個問題，您是否計劃——您計劃保留 Hepsiburada 的任何現任高管？或者隨著您對 Kaspi 的業務越來越熟悉，您會聘請更多的員工來經營這項業務嗎？

Mikheil, is there anything you can add on those, please?

米哈伊爾，您還有什麼可以補充的嗎？

Yes, sure. I think I did actually respond to this also on the previous call. So our goal is really to build the capabilities on the ground. There is no intention whatsoever. We're not the usual strategic guys, which just come in and suddenly start teaching everyone what's the best way to do business.

是的，當然。我想我在上次通話中也確實回應過這個問題。因此，我們的目標實際上是建立實地能力。沒有任何意圖。我們不是通常的策略家，突然出現並開始教導每個人甚麼是最佳的經營方式。

I think Hepsiburada, on a stand-alone basis, has a very strong management team that delivered profitable sound growth and have worked through the very challenging times, and they have together with the previous founders and the shareholders have done a job -- a remarkable job, which is a strong foundation for us to take forward.

我認為，Hepsiburada 作為一個獨立公司，擁有一支非常強大的管理團隊，該團隊實現了盈利性的穩健增長，並度過了非常具有挑戰性的時期，他們與之前的創始人和股東一起完成了一項了不起的工作，這為我們未來的發展奠定了堅實的基礎。

So we're not in the business of -- we're in the business of creating the incredible products, which are innovative and improve people's lives and they're mobile-driven and technology-driven. We are in this business, and there is a wealth of knowledge, which can be shared between the teams.

所以，我們的業務不是——我們的業務是創造令人難以置信的產品，這些產品具有創新性，可以改善人們的生活，並且是由行動和技術驅動的。我們從事這個行業，擁有豐富的知識，團隊之間可以分享。

And again, if there are some products which can be launched, we'll be focused on the launching of those products. That's -- we're like -- we're a product company. So we're not -- yes, Kaspi is not the political animal corporate structure. We're extremely lean.

再說一次，如果有些產品可以推出，我們就會專注於推出這些產品。也就是說 — — 我們是一家產品公司。所以我們不是—是的，卡斯皮不是政治動物公司結構。我們極其精簡。

And from that perspective, no, there is no intention whatsoever to start flying people. And it's also expensive. I'm just kidding. No, there is no such intention. I think we'll be -- we're very happy and working forward to -- looking forward to work together with Hepsiburada team that have done a very good job in the last several years.

從這個角度來看，我們根本沒有打算開始載人飛行。而且價格也很貴。我只是在開玩笑。不，沒有這個意圖。我想我們會——我們非常高興並期待——期待與在過去幾年中表現非常出色的 Hepsiburada 團隊合作。

In terms of the -- and then there was a question about the credit. Well, I mean, we will see, right? The credit is a good product, which Hepsiburada also has developed. At the same time, the market in Turkey is very wide from that perspective. And there are also financial institutions and the banks that provide products, yes.

就——而言，有一個關於信貸的問題。嗯，我的意思是，我們會看到，對吧？信貸是一個很好的產品，Hepsiburada 也開發了它。同時，從這個角度來看，土耳其的市場非常廣闊。是的，還有金融機構和提供產品的銀行。

So we will see. I mean, we always -- I mean, you always should keep in mind that even though we are innovative and we innovate on the things which are driving and needed for consumers and merchants. So if we see innovation is needed on the credit side, we'll look into it. But again, we follow consumer, we follow merchant, we make their lives better, and it's an exciting opportunity.

我們將拭目以待。我的意思是，我們始終——我的意思是，你應該始終記住，儘管我們具有創新性，並且我們在推動消費者和商家需要的事情上進行創新。因此，如果我們發現信貸方面需要創新，我們就會進行研究。但同樣，我們關註消費者，我們關注商家，我們讓他們的生活更美好，這是一個令人興奮的機會。

There are a number of things that can be done on the digital services, mobile services side for both merchants and consumers. And it's a big market.

商家和消費者可以在數位服務和行動服務方面做很多事情。這是一個很大的市場。

Yes. Look, it's easy to promise a million things. I think what you should look at is how we've reported on Kazakhstan over the last 5 years. We provide update on real execution, not promises. Everything you saw in the first part of that presentation was real initiatives that many of which you not even had of 18 months ago, that are now being rolled out and have got strong momentum behind that. You should expect more of the same going forward in whatever market we're talking about.

是的。你看，承諾一百萬件事很容易。我認為你應該看看我們過去五年對哈薩克的報導。我們提供實際執行情況的更新，而不是承諾。大家在演講第一部分看到的都是實實在在的舉措，其中許多舉措在 18 個月前甚至還沒有，但現在它們正在逐步實施，並且獲得了強勁的發展勢頭。無論我們談論的是哪個市場，未來你都應該期待更多類似的情況發生。

Yes. And then -- and just one thing to that Hepsiburada is e-Commerce company. So that's the core expertise and the core knowledge, which is a good foundation and the platform. So largely a very, very strong, very experienced e-Commerce company.

是的。然後——只有一件事，Hepsiburada 是一家電子商務公司。這就是核心專業知識和核心知識，這是一個良好的基礎和平台。因此，我們總體上是一家非常強大、經驗豐富的電子商務公司。

Gabor Kemeny, Autonomous.

加博爾·凱梅尼 (Gabor Kemeny)，自治。

A few clarifications from me, please. The first one is a high-level question on your guidance. So the 20% profit growth you guide is just a slight slowdown from what you delivered last year, whereas we -- if we look at the volume dynamics, those suggest more of a slowdown. So my question is that where do you see margins improving? And what is driving that? I believe you indicated fintech margins possibly coming down this year. So that would leave us with marketplace and payments. Any color would be useful here.

請我作出一些澄清。第一個是關於您的指導的一個高層次的問題。因此，您預期的 20% 利潤成長率僅比去年略有放緩，如果我們看一下銷量動態，就會發現成長放緩的跡象更加明顯。所以我的問題是，您認為利潤率在哪些方面會提高？是什麼推動了這現象？我相信您指出了今年金融科技利潤率可能會下降。所以我們還剩下市場和支付。任何顏色在這裡都是有用的。

The second one is on the currency, which has been volatile. You mentioned it has bounced back a bit, but I think still 6% weaker against the dollar than it was in 2024. I guess the question is, do you have any hedges, any balance sheet position we should be aware of? Or shall we translate the FX moves to your P&L 1:1 when we think about it in dollar terms.

第二個是關於貨幣的問題，貨幣一直波動很大。您提到它已經反彈，但我認為它兌美元的匯率仍比 2024 年下跌 6%。我想問題是，您是否有任何對沖，任何我們應該知道的資產負債表狀況？或者當我們以美元計算時，我們應該將外匯變動按照 1:1 的比例轉換為您的損益。

Yes. And my last question is on Hepsiburada. Is resuming the dividends in the second half dependent on the buyout of the minorities? That's it for me.

是的。我的最後一個問題是關於赫普西布拉達 (Hepsiburada) 的。下半年恢復分紅是否要靠少數股權的買斷？對我來說就是這樣了。

David, I want you to take it.

大衛，我希望你拿著它。

Yes, right, Gabor. So I'll do them, I think, in reverse order. So on buyout of minorities, I think I would simply just say that at this point in time, we are focused on -- we just closed the initial 65%. We've made an initial payment, and we have a remaining payment to make over the next six months, which will take us up to KZT1.1 billion. That's our focus.

是的，Gabor 對的。因此我想我會按照相反的順序來做。因此，關於少數股權收購，我認為我只想說，目前我們專注於——我們剛剛完成了最初的 65% 收購。我們已經支付了首期款項，剩餘款項將在未來六個月內支付，總計將達到 11 億堅戈。這就是我們的重點。

There's no proposal on the table for anything else today. So that's important to be aware of that. And again, that point, there's different things that can happen across the business. You've highlighted one. There are multiple other moving parts in the second half of the year, we'll be in a better position to take into account everything can make a call at that particular point in time.

今天沒有提出任何其他提案。因此意識到這一點很重要。再說一遍，在這一點上，整個企業可能會發生不同的事情。您已突出顯示其中一個。今年下半年還有多個其他活動，我們將能夠更好地考慮到在特定時間點可以做出的所有決定。

Again, our track record, I think, shows if we have excess cash, we return it to shareholders. We've said quite clearly here, we can look at both dividends and/or buybacks, and we'll update on the second half of the year. In terms of my minorities, there's really no proposal on the table today.

再說一次，我認為，我們的業績記錄表明，如果我們有剩餘現金，我們會將其返還給股東。我們在這裡已經說得很清楚了，我們可以同時關注股息和/或回購，我們將在下半年進行更新。就我的少數民族而言，今天實際上沒有任何提議。

So that's your last question. Question on hedging. No material hedging in the business. That's a simple answer there. Largely, this is a tenge revenue at tenge cost business for the most part.

這是你的最後一個問題。關於對沖的問題。業務中無重大對沖。這是一個簡單的答案。很大程度上，這主要是以堅戈為成本、以堅戈為收入的業務。

On your first question, again, similar to Darrin's question. So again, I think I can only reiterate that volume trends will be very, very strong in the business this year. I mean, you think about our scale, marketplace growth of up to 30% year-on-year, payments growth of up to 20% growth year-on-year. These are decent volume numbers for a business that's north of $2 billion in net income.

關於您的第一個問題，同樣與 Darrin 的問題類似。因此，我認為我只能重申，今年的業務量趨勢將非常非常強勁。我的意思是，想想我們的規模，市場年增高達 30%，支付年增率高達 20%。對於一家淨收入超過 20 億美元的企業來說，這些銷售數字相當不錯。

So the business is big. The growth is still forecast to be strong. I think ultimately, you just have to look at the complete picture. So if 2024 was 25% growth is probably an unrealistic assumption that 2025 will be 25% growth as well. 20% does not seem like a dramatic change in outlook, it just seems like natural scale effects within the business to me. This is Kazakhstan. Of course, going forward, in the medium term, there can be contributions to income from other parts of the world.

所以生意很大。預計成長仍將強勁。我認為最終你只需要看完整的畫面。因此，如果 2024 年的成長率為 25%，那麼 2025 年的成長率為 25% 可能是不切實際的假設。 20% 似乎不是前景的重大變化，對我來說，這只是業務內部自然的規模效應。這就是哈薩克。當然，從中期來看，世界其他地區也可以為收入做出貢獻。

Regi Smith, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的雷吉史密斯 (Regi Smith)。

Congrats on the quarter. Most of my questions have been asked, but I did have a follow-up. You mentioned -- it sounds like that your impact or influence over Hepsiburada will primarily come through Board meetings. My question is, has the new reconstituted Board met yet? And how frequently do they meet?

恭喜本季取得佳績。我的大部分問題都已經被問過了，但我確實有一個後續問題。您提到—聽起來您對 Hepsiburada 的影響主要將透過董事會會議來實現。我的問題是，新重組的董事會已經開會了嗎？他們多久見一次面？

You want to take that, Mikheil?

你想拿走那個嗎，米哈伊爾？

Good to hear from you. it's -- yes, I mean, it's proper Board dynamics really for a company which is listed on NASDAQ. So we have a very good, strong work with three independent directors. And yes, it's all -- it's actually have been -- yes, been working in accordance with all the governance requirements, which are applicable for a NASDAQ-listed company in the States. So we have not -- we haven't had yet the formal Board meeting.

很高興收到你的來信。是的，我的意思是，對於一家在納斯達克上市的公司來說，這確實是適當的董事會動態。因此，我們與三位獨立董事的合作非常出色、有力。是的，事實上，我們一直按照適用於美國納斯達克上市公司的所有治理要求來開展工作。因此我們還沒有召開正式的董事會。

So I think the requirement for the standard is just like one meeting per quarter, but some companies will meet more frequently. I guess, my question is, is the plan to meet more frequently or just the standard is kind of the standard?

所以我認為標準的要求就像每季開一次會一樣，但有些公司會開得更頻繁。我想，我的問題是，計劃是更頻繁地開會還是只是標準而已？

Well, I think the Board will do whatever they consider appropriate for any point. So there is no -- I think, we shouldn't be putting any limitations, whether it's quarterly or it's monthly. I think the meetings will take place either like in Kaspi, the place -- the meetings take place when important decisions are -- needs to be made and the Board needs to review or so different committees that have to do their job.

嗯，我認為董事會將針對任何問題採取他們認為適當的行動。所以沒有——我認為，我們不應該設定任何限制，無論是按季度還是按月。我認為會議將會像在卡斯皮那樣舉行，那裡是需要做出重要決策的會議，董事會需要審查，或者不同的委員會必須履行各自的職責。

So I think it's -- yes, it's -- it just needs to be guided by the requirements of the company and the governance policies which the companies have. And the governance policies are actually quite good detailed and substantial and in a sense, similar between Kaspi and Hepsiburada.

所以我認為——是的，它只是需要以公司要求和公司治理政策為指導。而治理政策其實相當詳細且實質，從某種意義上說，卡斯皮和赫普西布拉達的治理政策相似。

Got it. And just to make sure I understand this correctly. Your influence, you being Kaspi's influence on operation strategy or whatever as it relates to Hepsiburada, will happen through Board meetings, as opposed to somebody just calling up and saying, "Hey, we want you to do this or look at this" or something to that degree? Am I interpreting that correctly?

知道了。只是為了確保我理解正確。您的影響力，即卡斯皮對營運策略或與赫普西布拉達有關的任何事情的影響力，將透過董事會會議來實現，而不是有人只是打電話過來並說，「嘿，我們希望您做這個或看看這個」或類似的事情？我的解釋正確嗎？

I'm just trying to understand where are you going with this question.

我只是想知道你問這個問題的目的是什麼。

No -- so I guess typically, when I think of an acquisition, and this is different because you guys acquired the entire company. Companies can come in and really have a super hands-on approach to like changes. And I guess I'm trying to understand the distinction here and making sure that like I fully appreciate that it's not going to be super hands on, but it's not a passive investment either. So just trying to understand like where it falls and that continue. You following?

不——所以我想通常當我想到收購時，這是不同的，因為你們收購了整個公司。公司可以介入並真正採取親力親為的方式來應對變革。我想，我想嘗試理解這裡的區別，並確保我完全理解這不會是超級實際的投資，但也不是被動的投資。所以只是試著了解它落在哪裡並繼續下去。您關注了嗎？

Yes, of course. I mean, I think in general, it's -- we're -- in general, we're just excited to -- we're excited to launch the services in Turkey with our experience and our execution skills. So -- and we are shareholders in the company, and we invested into the company or bought the company because we believe that e-Commerce has high potential.

是的當然。我的意思是，我認為總的來說，我們只是很高興——我們很高興憑藉我們的經驗和執行技能在土耳其推出這些服務。所以——我們是該公司的股東，我們投資該公司或收購該公司是因為我們相信電子商務具有巨大的潛力。

So wherever we can add the value and it's not -- we're not a private equity fund, and we're not an asset management company. We are actually a strategic investor, right? So we'll do things which are applicable for a strategic investor company. We're not going to be, of course, working on the Board level.

所以無論我們在哪裡都可以增加價值，我們不是私募股權基金，也不是資產管理公司。我們實際上是策略投資者，對嗎？所以我們會做一些適合策略投資者公司的事情。當然，我們不會在董事會層級開展工作。

Can Demir, Wood & Company.

坎德米爾，伍德及公司。

So the first question is the BNPL for merchants. Is that a market place product? Or is that a fintech product? So I just wanted to clarify that. And secondly, on the government's comments that the merchants should advertise both cash and BNPL finance price for their products. I was wondering what your take on that is?

所以第一個問題是商家的 BNPL。那是市場產品嗎？還是那是一種金融科技產品？所以我只是想澄清這一點。其次，根據政府的評論，商家應該同時宣傳其產品的現金和 BNPL 融資價格。我想知道您對此有何看法？

And how do you think that would affect your m-Commerce business? Or is that more a noise that we should maybe overlook. And thirdly, on Ukraine, we know that you have a payments company there. Would you focus on going back there if there's a peace deal? That's the third question.

您認為這會對您的行動商務產生什麼影響？或者這更像是一種我們應該忽略的噪音。第三，關於烏克蘭，我們知道你們在那裡有一家支付公司。如果達成和平協議，你會專注於重返那裡嗎？這是第三個問題。

I can take all three questions. Or David, do you want to do it?

我可以回答所有三個問題。或者大衛，你想這樣做嗎？

No. Because if you do and maybe broaden out anything else on the regulatory side that needs -- that you think is relevant to raise?

不。因為如果您這樣做，也許會擴大監管方面的任何其他需求—您認為有哪些內容是相關的？

Yes, okay. In terms of the Ukraine and other -- around the region, I would say let's just hope that there will be a peace. And then I think we will revisit our strategist. I can -- but at the same time, I can almost imagine you guys asking us when you will go to Ukraine and then when we will go to Ukraine you will ask us why did we go to Ukraine.

是的，好的。就烏克蘭和該地區其他地區而言，我想說，我們只希望那裡能夠實現和平。然後我想我們會重新審視我們的戰略家。我可以——但同時，我幾乎可以想像你們會問我們什麼時候去烏克蘭，然後當我們去烏克蘭時，你們會問我們為什麼要去烏克蘭。

And then you will ask us, what's your 5-year detailed plan strategy and things like that. So anyway, just joking. But I think -- let's just keep in mind, I mean, let's just hope the peace will be there, mutually beneficial for everyone, and we will explore opportunities down the line.

然後你會問我們，你的5年詳細規劃策略是什麼之類的事情。無論如何，只是開個玩笑。但我認為——我們只要記住，我的意思是，我們只要希望和平能夠存在，對每個人互惠互利，並且我們將探索未來的機會。

In terms of the buy inventory now and pay later, it's both fintech and the payments product. So it actually works on the both because we're processing the payment. And we're also taking the credit risk for 30 days, which is very low risk. So it basically works on both platforms. It works on the credit risk side, of course, it's a credit. It's a fintech side. On the payment side, it's still processing the payment because it's built also on top of the B2B payments.

就先購買庫存、稍後付款而言，它既是金融科技，也是支付產品。因此它實際上對兩者都有效，因為我們正在處理付款。我們也承擔 30 天的信用風險，風險非常低。所以它基本上可以在兩個平台上運行。它在信用風險方面起作用，當然，它是一種信用。這是金融科技的一個面向。在支付方面，它仍在處理支付，因為它也是建立在 B2B 支付之上的。

But this is just another innovation on the top of B2B. When we launched the B2B payments, I did tell you guys several years ago, this is -- we want to get the scale, we want to run -- we want transactions running. And once distributors and convenience stores have transactions between them at some point, we will start innovating on top of those transactions like we did in every other verticals.

但這只是B2B之上的另一項創新。當我們推出 B2B 支付時，我幾年前就告訴過你們，我們想要擴大規模，我們想要運行——我們想要交易運行起來。一旦分銷商和便利商店之間開始進行交易，我們就會開始在這些交易的基礎上進行創新，就像我們在其他垂直行業所做的那樣。

And that's what's happening now. So it's another B2B product which we have launched. And again, the credit risk side is on the fintech and -- credit risk and the interest rate. I mean, fintech and then the payment processing side is on the payment side. So that's on buy now pay later product.

這正是現在正在發生的事。這是我們推出的另一款 B2B 產品。再次強調，信用風險在於金融科技和信用風險以及利率。我的意思是，金融科技和支付處理端都在支付端。這就是先買後付的產品。

In terms of regulation, well, I mean, in general, I would say there was general discussion. There's really nothing -- I don't know, nothing really specific to report, yes. So I mean, in general, there is a discussion also about the VAT tax -- and this discussion is going with a wide audience and the businesses and the retailers.

至於監管方面，嗯，我的意思是，總的來說，我會說存在一般性討論。真的沒有什麼——我不知道，沒有什麼具體的事情要報告，是的。所以我的意思是，總的來說，也存在著關於增值稅的討論——而且這場討論正在與廣泛的受眾、企業和零售商進行。

So there is -- yes, there is discussion ongoing on the VAT, for example, there is a discussion going on, on the payment network as well the national payment network. So we are involved in all those discussions. I don't know anything else, David, I'm missing?

是的，目前正在討論增值稅，例如，目前正在討論支付網路以及國家支付網路。因此我們參與了所有這些討論。我不知道其他任何事情，大衛，我錯過了什麼？

No. There's nothing material to report. As you've followed us for several years, Can, there's always different aspects of regulation being discussed at different stakeholders contribute different opinions. We're one stakeholder. But I think what you've seen over the last 5 years, there's never really been a regulatory decision that had a dramatic impact on the business model or investment case.

不。沒有什麼重要的事情要報告。正如您關注我們多年的那樣，Can，不同的利害關係人總是在討論監管的不同方面並提出不同的意見。我們是一個利害關係人。但我認為，在過去五年裡，從未出現過真正對商業模式或投資案例產生重大影響的監管決策。

And we've generally been well positioned as the regulatory landscape has changed, and there will be changes in the future. and we'll look to make sure we're well positioned for those changes, but there's nothing imminent that we need to flag to you or to other investors.

隨著監管環境的變化，我們總體上處於有利地位，未來還會發生改變。我們將確保我們能夠為這些變化做好準備，但是我們並不需要向您或其他投資者提前發出任何緊急通知。

Thank you. I would now like to hand it back to David for some final comments.

謝謝。現在我想將會議交還給戴維，請他發表一些最後的評論。

Yes. Thanks, Breka. So we've gone on for over 1.5 hours. I'm conscious there are some questions remaining in the queue, but we do need to wrap things up to move to another meeting. So thank you for your time today. Happy to follow up offline if we didn't get to your -- apologies and happy to follow offline if we didn't get to your question today, happy to continue discussion with everyone over the next couple of weeks.

是的。謝謝，Breka。所以我們已經持續了一個半多小時了。我知道還有一些問題需要回答，但我們確實需要結束這些事情以便轉到另一個會議。非常感謝您今天抽出時間。如果我們今天沒有回答您的問題，我們很樂意進行線下跟進——抱歉，如果我們今天沒有回答您的問題，我們很樂意進行線下跟進，很高興在接下來的幾週內繼續與大家討論。

So thanks a lot for your time. Thanks for the questions, guys, and I speak to you all quite soon. Thanks. Bye.

非常感謝您抽出時間。謝謝大家的提問，我很快就會和你們交談。謝謝。再見。

Thank you for good questions. Bye.

感謝您提出的好問題。再見。

Thank you all for joining today's call with Kaspi. You may now disconnect from the webinar, and please enjoy the rest of your day, and thank you all again for attending.

感謝大家參加今天與 Kaspi 的電話會議。您現在可以斷開與網路研討會的連接，並享受剩餘的一天，再次感謝大家的參加。