金德摩根 (KMI) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the third-quarter 2025 earnings results conference call. (Operator Instructions) Today's conference is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time.

下午好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加2025年第三季財報電話會議。（操作說明）今天的會議正在錄音。如果您有任何異議，可以立即斷開連接。

It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Rich Kinder, Executive Chairman of Kinder Morgan.

現在我很高興將電話轉交給金德摩根公司執行董事長里奇金德先生。

Thank you, Michelle. As usual, before we begin, I'd like to remind you that KMI's earnings release today and this call include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and the Securities and Exchange Act of 1934 and as well as certain non-GAAP financial measures.

謝謝你，米歇爾。和往常一樣，在開始之前，我想提醒各位，KMI今天發布的收益報告和本次電話會議包含1995年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》和1934年《證券交易法案》所指的前瞻性陳述，以及某些非GAAP財務指標。

Before making any investment decision, we strongly encourage you to read our full disclosure on forward-looking statements and use of non-GAAP financial measures set forth at the end of our earnings release as well as review our latest filings with the SEC for important material assumptions, expectations and risk factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from those anticipated and described in such forward-looking statements.

在做出任何投資決定之前，我們強烈建議您閱讀我們在盈利報告末尾列出的關於前瞻性陳述和非GAAP財務指標使用的完整披露，並查看我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的最新文件，了解可能導致實際結果與此類前瞻性陳述中預期和描述的結果存在重大差異的重要假設、預期和風險因素。

I think we all recognize the positives and negatives of publicly traded companies One of the biggest pitfalls is the undue concentration on quarter-to-quarter or even day-to-day issues, many of which are relatively inconsequential in terms of the long-term success of the enterprise. With that in mind, I thought I'd take this opportunity to stress two important substantive factors that will impact the future of Kinder market.

我認為我們都認識到上市公司的利弊。最大的陷阱之一是過度關注季度甚至日常問題，而這些問題對於企業的長期成功而言往往無關緊要。有鑑於此，我想藉此機會強調兩個將影響健達市場未來發展的重要實質因素。

The natural gas story and the long-term strategy of our company. Obviously, the two are intimately related. On the natural gas demand front, there are two huge drivers. The first is the continued rapid growth in LNG feed gas demand driven by the enormous expansion of export facilities, primarily along the Gulf Coast. While industry experts differ somewhat, there's a pretty broad consensus that demand will at least double between 2024 and 2030.

天然氣發展歷程及公司長期策略。顯然，這兩者密切相關。天然氣需求方面，有兩個主要驅動因素。首先，由於出口設施（主要沿著墨西哥灣沿岸）的大規模擴張，液化天然氣原料氣需求持續快速成長。儘管業內專家對此看法不一，但普遍認為，2024 年至 2030 年間，需求至少會翻倍。

In fact, S&P's commodity insights recently estimated that increased at 130%, which implies a demand of 31 to 32 Bcf a day in 2030. As an example of this growing demand, six LNG projects have reached FID so far in 2025. Feed gas demand for those facilities alone when completed will be 9 Bcf per day. Now there's more variance in assessing the impact of the second driver, which is the increasing demand for electricity, primarily to serve AI data centers. There will clearly be huge additional demand for electricity, but how much of that will be captured by natural gas.

事實上，標普的商品洞察報告最近估計，這一數字增長了 130%，這意味著到 2030 年，每日需求量將達到 310 億至 320 億立方英尺。例如，為了說明這種日益增長的需求，截至目前，已有六個液化天然氣項目在 2025 年達到最終投資決定 (FID)。這些設施建成後，光是原料氣需求量就將達到每天 90 億立方英尺。現在，在評估第二個驅動因素（即不斷增長的電力需求，主要是為了服務人工智慧資料中心）的影響時，存在更多差異。電力需求顯然會大幅增加，但其中有多少需求會被天然氣滿足？

Let's look at the alternatives. Certainly, renewables will play a major role but can't handle the entire load given AI needs for uninterrupted power 24/7, not just when the sun is shining or the wind is blowing. But can't this be fixed by (inaudible) wind or solar farms with massive batteries the store power and release it in the steady stream when needed.

我們來看看其他方案。當然，再生能源將發揮重要作用，但鑑於人工智慧需要全天候不間斷供電，而不僅僅是在陽光明媚或有風的時候，再生能源無法滿足全部需求。但是，難道不能透過（聽不清楚）風力發電場或太陽能發電場，配備大型電池來儲存電力，並在需要時穩定地釋放電力，從而解決這個問題嗎？

Well, that sounds intriguing, but there are serious drawbacks to this option because batteries are expensive and limited in the time they can cover and renewables of the size to serve AI centers require enormous space. A recent article in the New York Times of all places, estimated that to continuously produce just 1 gigawatt a solar farm would need 12.5 million solar panels and over 5,000 football fields and wind turbines would require even more space.

嗯，這聽起來很有意思，但這種方案有嚴重的缺點，因為電池價格昂貴且續航時間有限，而為人工智慧中心提供服務的可再生能源需要巨大的空間。《紐約時報》最近的一篇文章估計，要持續生產 1 吉瓦的電力，一座太陽能發電廠需要 1250 萬塊太陽能電池板和超過 5000 個足球場的空間，而風力渦輪機則需要更大的空間。

Another source of power is nuclear, which generates steady power from relatively small footprint, but this is an industry that unfortunately has been basically dormant for over 40 years and new nuclear facilities are very expensive and would likely take seven to 10 years to come online. This means that AI sponsor would not have the facilities when needed, and we'll be handling billions of dollars that the demand will still be there a decade or so from now.

核能是另一種能源，它佔地相對較小，卻能穩定發電，但不幸的是，這個行業已經基本停滯了 40 多年，而且新建核電站非常昂貴，可能需要 7 到 10 年才能投入使用。這意味著人工智慧贊助商在需要時將無法獲得所需的設施，而我們將要處理數十億美元的資金，這種需求在未來十年左右仍然存在。

That leaves natural gas, which is abundant and reasonably priced and the infrastructure to produce power from natural gas is relatively quick to build. Reasonably like I've just outlined is why we believe that AI data center needs will supplement in a very meaningful way the tremendous increases in LNG feed gas demand and in combination of the two drivers will ensure a huge and growing market for natural gas in the years and decades to come.

這樣就只剩下天然氣了，天然氣儲量豐富，價格合理，而且利用天然氣發電的基礎設施建設速度相對較快。正如我剛才概述的那樣，我們認為人工智慧資料中心的需求將以一種非常有意義的方式補充液化天然氣原料氣需求的巨大增長，而這兩個因素的結合將確保未來幾年和幾十年內天然氣市場規模龐大且不斷增長。

Now let me conclude by again emphasizing the long-term strategy at Kinder Morgan. We are a prolific generator of cash and are fortunate to have the majority of our assets employed in a true growth segment of the energy business namely the transportation of natural gas. These two characteristics dovetail nicely.

最後，我想再次強調金德摩根的長期策略。我們擁有充裕的現金流，並且很幸運地將大部分資產投入到能源業務的真正成長領域，也就是天然氣運輸。這兩個特點完美契合。

The tremendous growth in natural gas demand drives the opportunity for expanding and extending our pipeline and terminal networks and adding new facilities, as evidenced by the $9 billion-plus of projects already approved by our Board, and we generate the cash internally to fund those projects while maintaining a healthy and modestly growing dividend.

天然氣需求的大幅成長為我們擴大和延伸管道及終端網路、增加新設施提供了機會，正如我們董事會已批准的超過 90 億美元的項目所證明的那樣，我們透過內部現金流為這些項目提供資金，同時保持健康且適度增長的股息。

Now to be clear, we have to complete these projects on time and on budget, but our track record in that regard is good, and we're benefiting from a federal regulatory process that is more supportive of projects like ours. While our base business is relatively flat, these capital projects will drive substantial growth in EBITDA and EPS for years to come.

需要明確的是，我們必須按時按預算完成這些項目，但我們在這方面的記錄良好，而且我們正受益於聯邦監管流程，該流程對像我們這樣的項目更加支持。雖然我們的基礎業務相對平穩，但這些資本項目將在未來幾年內推動 EBITDA 和 EPS 的大幅成長。

This is a simple but, in my mind, very compelling strategy. And with that, I'll turn it over to Kim.

這是一個簡單但在我看來非常有說服力的策略。接下來，我將把麥克風交給金。

Okay. Thanks, Rich. We're pleased to report another strong quarter with EBITDA up 6% and adjusted EPS growing 16% year-on-year. These results reflect the strength of our underlying business and the continued execution on our growth projects. We currently expect to exceed our full year budget due to the contributions from the Outrigger acquisition.

好的。謝謝你，里奇。我們很高興地宣布，本季業績強勁，EBITDA年增6%，調整後每股收益較去年同期成長16%。這些業績反映了我們業務基礎的強勁以及我們成長項目的持續推進。由於收購 Outrigger 帶來的收益，我們目前預計全年預算將超支。

This outperformance would be greater if not for lower-than-budgeted D3 RIN prices and RNG volumes. Currently, the RNG volumes are much closer to budget, but RINs prices remain weak. The natural gas segment, which accounts for two-third of our business is outperforming its budget, even excluding Outrigger.

如果不是因為 D3 RIN 價格和 RNG 產量低於預算，這種超額收益將會更大。目前，RNG 產量已接近預算目標，但 RIN 價格依然疲軟。天然氣業務占我們業務的三分之二，即使不計入 Outrigger，其業績也超出了預算。

Our expansion backlog remained flat at $9.3 billion, with the approximately $500 million of new projects offset by projects placed in service. The backlog multiple continues to be below 6 times, consistent with our disciplined approach to capital deployment. The mix of new projects added to the backlog this quarter has split roughly 50% natural gas, primarily supporting power generation and 50% to refined products tankage.

我們的擴張積壓訂單維持在 93 億美元不變，其中約 5 億美元的新項目被已投入使用的項目所抵銷。積壓訂單倍數持續低於 6 倍，這與我們嚴謹的資本部署方式相符。本季新增項目組合中，天然氣項目約佔 50%，主要用於發電；成品油儲槽項目約佔 50%。

Looking ahead, our opportunity set remains exceptionally compelling. We're actively pursuing over $10 billion in potential projects, primarily in natural gas underscoring the continued demand for our services and the strength of our platform. As I mentioned last quarter, the scale of opportunities we're evaluating today is comparable to when our backlog stood at just $3 billion highlighting the consistency and the resiliency of our growth pipeline.

展望未來，我們所面臨的機會依然極具吸引力。我們正在積極推動價值超過 100 億美元的潛在項目，主要集中在天然氣領域，這凸顯了市場對我們服務的持續需求以及我們平台的實力。正如我上個季度提到的，我們今天正在評估的機會規模與當時我們的積壓訂單僅為 30 億美元時的情況相當，這凸顯了我們成長通路的穩定性和韌性。

Our gas infrastructure more than 66,000 miles of pipeline connecting all major basins and demand centers positions us as a critical player in energy infrastructure. Today, we transport over 40% of the natural gas in the United States, including more than 40% of the volume headed to LNG export facilities the gas fueling US natural gas power plants and 50% of the gas exported to Mexico.

我們擁有超過 66,000 英里的天然氣管道基礎設施，連接所有主要盆地和需求中心，這使我們成為能源基礎設施領域的重要參與者。如今，我們運輸了美國 40% 以上的天然氣，其中包括運往液化天然氣出口設施的 40% 以上的天然氣、為美國天然氣發電廠提供燃料的天然氣以及出口到墨西哥的 50% 的天然氣。

Looking forward, our internal projections estimate 28 Bcf a day increase in natural gas demand by 2030 driven primarily by growth in LNG exports as well as power and exports to Mexico. Wood Mackenzie forecast a similar trend, projecting 22 Bcf a day of growth in overall natural gas demand.

展望未來，我們的內部預測估計，到 2030 年，天然氣需求將增加 280 億立方英尺/天，這主要受液化天然氣出口成長以及電力和對墨西哥出口成長的推動。伍德麥肯茲預測了類似的趨勢，預計天然氣總需求量每天將增加 220 億立方英尺。

With our strategically located assets, we are well positioned to capture a meaningful share of this expansion. Our current $9.3 billion backlog is a strong foundation for long-term high-quality growth. A very significant portion of this backlog is supported by take-or-pay contracts, providing both stability and visibility into future cash flows.

憑藉我們策略性的資產佈局，我們完全有能力在此次擴張中佔據重要份額。我們目前93億美元的積壓訂單為長期高品質成長奠定了堅實的基礎。積壓訂單中很大一部分由照付不議合約支持，這既保證了穩定性，也保證了未來現金流的可見性。

And as we continue to advance our development pipeline, we expect to convert a portion of the $10 billion opportunity set into additional backlog, further reinforcing our growth trajectory. We remain confident in our strategy, our execution and our ability to deliver long-term value for our shareholders.

隨著我們不斷推進開發項目，我們預計將把價值 100 億美元的機會中的一部分轉化為額外的積壓訂單，進一步鞏固我們的成長軌跡。我們對我們的策略、執行力以及為股東創造長期價值的能力仍然充滿信心。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Tom Martin to walk through the business performance in more detail.

接下來，我將把麥克風交給湯姆馬丁，讓他更詳細地分析一下業務表現。

Thanks, Kim. Starting with the natural gas business unit. Transport volumes were up 6% in the quarter versus the third quarter of 2024, primarily due to LNG deliveries on Tennessee Gas Pipeline new contracts from expansion projects placed into service on the Texas Intrastate system and increased Permian deliveries to Waha and Mexico on our El Paso natural gas system.

謝謝你，金。首先從天然氣業務部門開始。與 2024 年第三季相比，本季運輸量增加了 6%，這主要是由於田納西天然氣管道公司透過德州州內系統擴建專案簽訂的新合約增加了液化天然氣的交付，以及我們埃爾帕索天然氣系統向瓦哈和墨西哥的二疊紀盆地天然氣交付量增加。

Natural gas gathering volumes were up 9% in the quarter from the third quarter of 2024, with growth across all our G&P assets, the largest impacts from our Haynesville and Eagle Ford systems. Sequentially, total gas gathering volumes were up 11%. We experienced a significant ramp from our producer customers during the quarter to meet the growing LNG demand.

與 2024 年第三季相比，本季天然氣收集量增加了 9%，我們所有的 G&P 資產均實現了成長，其中 Haynesville 和 Eagle Ford 系統的影響最大。天然氣總收集量較上季增加 11%。本季度，為了滿足不斷增長的液化天然氣需求，我們的生產商客戶的產量大幅增加。

The gathering volume growth trend continues in the early days of the fourth quarter, most notably on our Haynesville system as it is approaching new daily volume records in October. For the full year, we now expect the gathering volumes to average 5% above 2024. And looking forward, we continue to see significant incremental project opportunities across our natural gas pipeline network to expand our transportation and storage capabilities in support of the growing natural gas market.

第四季初，集水量成長趨勢仍在持續，尤其是在海恩斯維爾集水區，10 月的日集水量即將創下新紀錄。我們現在預計全年集輸量將比 2024 年平均成長 5%。展望未來，我們將繼續看到天然氣管道網路中出現大量新增項目機會，以擴大我們的運輸和儲存能力，從而支持不斷增長的天然氣市場。

For example, we are exploring more than 10 Bcf a day of natural gas opportunities to serve the power generation sector. In our Products Pipeline segment, Refined product volumes were down 1% in the quarter compared to the third quarter of 2024. For the full year 2025 refined products volumes are forecasted to be about 1% higher than 2024 and in line with our budget.

例如，我們正在探索每天超過 100 億立方英尺的天然氣供應機會，以滿足發電產業的需求。在我們的產品管線部門，本季成品油產量比 2024 年第三季下降了 1%。預計 2025 年全年成品油產量將比 2024 年成長約 1%，符合我們的預算。

Crude and condensate volumes were down 3% in the quarter compared to the third quarter of 2024. More than all of that decline is driven by taking double age out of service earlier this quarter for the NGL conversion project. On Monday, Kinder Morgan and Phillips 66 launched a binding open season for transportation service on the Western Gateway Pipeline, a newly proposed refined products pipeline system that will facilitate the movement of products from origin points in Texas to key downstream markets in Arizona and California with connectivity to Las Vegas, Nevada.

與 2024 年第三季相比，本季原油和凝析油產量下降了 3%。大部分下降是由於本季早些時候為了 NGL 轉換項目而將雙齡機停用所致。週一，金德摩根公司和菲利普斯66公司啟動了西部門戶管道運輸服務的約束性公開招標。西部門戶管道是一個新提出的成品油管道系統，它將促進產品從德克薩斯州的原產地運輸到亞利桑那州和加利福尼亞州的主要下游市場，並與內華達州拉斯維加斯相連。

This open season is scheduled to run through December 19. Following the successful open season, the Western Gateway pipeline and KMI's SFPP East line will be jointly owned by KMI and Phillips 66. We believe this project provides an attractive refined products alternative for markets in Arizona and California, given the decline in California refining market.

本次狩獵季預計將持續到12月19日。經過成功的公開招標，西部門戶管道和 KMI 的 SFPP 東線將由 KMI 和 Phillips 66 共同擁有。鑑於加州煉油市場的下滑，我們認為該項目為亞利桑那州和加州市場提供了一個有吸引力的精煉產品替代方案。

In our Terminals business segment, our liquids lease capacity remains high at 95%. Market conditions continue to remain supportive of strong rates and high utilization at our key hubs in the Houston Ship Channel and New York Harbor. Our Jones Act tanker fleet is fully leased today through the remainder of 2025, assuming likely options are exercised, the fleet is 100% leased through 2026 and 97% leased through 2027.

在我們的碼頭業務板塊，我們的液體租賃能力保持在95%的高位。市場狀況持續支撐著我們在休士頓航道和紐約港主要樞紐的強勁運價和高利用率。根據《瓊斯法案》，我們的油輪船隊目前已全部出租至 2025 年剩餘時間；假設所有可能的續租選擇都得到執行，則船隊在 2026 年的出租率為 100%，在 2027 年的出租率為 97%。

We have optimistically chartered a significant percentage of the fleet at higher market rates and extended the average length of firm contract commitments to nearly four years. The CO2 segment experienced 4% lower oil production volumes, 4% higher NGL volumes and 14% lower CO2 volumes in the quarter versus the third quarter of 2024. For the full year 2025 our volumes are forecasted to be 4% below 2024 and 1% below our budget. With that, I'll turn it over to David Michels.

我們樂觀地以更高的市場價格租用了船隊的很大一部分，並將固定合約承諾的平均期限延長至近四年。與 2024 年第三季相比，本季 CO2 板塊的石油產量下降了 4%，NGL 產量上升了 4%，CO2 產量下降了 14%。預計 2025 年全年銷售量將比 2024 年下降 4%，比預算下降 1%。接下來，我將把麥克風交給大衛‧米歇爾斯。

Thank you, Tom. This quarter, we're declaring a quarterly dividend of $0.2925 per share or $1.17 per share annualized, which represents a 2% increase over our 2024 dividend. For the third quarter, we generated net income attributable to KMI of $628 million and EPS of $0.28 per share both in line with the third quarter of 2024.

謝謝你，湯姆。本季度，我們宣布派發每股 0.2925 美元的季度股息，或年化每股 1.17 美元，比 2024 年的股息成長 2%。第三季度，歸屬於 KMI 的淨利潤為 6.28 億美元，每股收益為 0.28 美元，均與 2024 年第三季持平。

Last year's results included favorable mark-to-market impacts on hedges and a onetime noncash tax benefit, both of which we treated certain items. Excluding those items, adjusted net income and adjusted EPS grew 16% year-over-year, delivering strong double-digit growth. This growth was driven by greater contributions from our natural gas expansion projects placed in service, the Outrigger acquisition and strong demand across our natural gas footprint for natural gas capacity and related services.

去年的業績包括對沖交易的有利市值調整影響和一次性非現金稅收優惠，我們對其中的某些項目進行了處理。剔除這些項目後，調整後的淨收入和調整後的每股盈餘年增 16%，實現了強勁的兩位數成長。這一增長得益於我們投入使用的天然氣擴建項目的更大貢獻、對 Outrigger 的收購以及我們天然氣業務範圍內對天然氣產能和相關服務的強勁需求。

Moving on to the balance sheet. As we've continued to take a disciplined approach to capital allocation, our balance sheet has strengthened. Our net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio has improved to 3.9 times at the end of the third quarter down from 4.1 times at the end of the first quarter, which was immediately following the Outrigger acquisition.

接下來來看資產負債表。由於我們持續採取嚴謹的資本配置方法，我們的資產負債表得到了加強。截至第三季末，我們的淨負債與調整後 EBITDA 比率已改善至 3.9 倍，低於第一季末的 4.1 倍，而第一季末正是在收購 Outrigger 之後。

Year-to-date, our net debt has increased by $544 million, and here's a high-level reconciliation. We generated cash flow from operations of $4.225 billion. We've paid out dividends of $1.95 billion. We paid or spent $2.245 billion of total capital. the Outrigger acquisition was $650 million, and all other items were a source of cash of approximately $75 million, which gets you close to that $544 million increase for the year.

今年迄今為止，我們的淨債務增加了 5.44 億美元，以下是詳細的比較分析。我們透過經營活動產生了 42.25 億美元的現金流。我們已支付股息19.5億美元。我們總共支付或花費了 22.45 億美元的資本。其中，收購 Outrigger 花費了 6.5 億美元，其他所有項目產生的現金約為 7,500 萬美元，這使我們接近了當年 5.44 億美元的成長目標。

The rating agencies have recognized our strength in financial profile. And in August, Fitch upgraded our senior unsecured rating to BBB+. We were already on positive outlook by both S&P and Moody's and we look for a favorable resolution of those in the near term. As Kim mentioned, we expect to exceed our 2025 budget.

評級機構認可了我們強大的財務實力。8 月，惠譽將我們的優先無抵押債券評級上調至 BBB+。先前標普和穆迪都對我們持正面展望，我們期待這些評級在短期內得到有利的解決。正如金所說，我們預計2025年將超出預算。

And as a reminder, we budgeted to grow adjusted EBITDA by 4% and adjusted EPS by 10% from 2024. So with the outperformance we expect to deliver even larger year-over-year growth. As we mentioned last quarter, the budget reconciliation bill delivers meaningful tax benefits for us, primarily from full expensing of investments. In addition, recent adjustments to the corporate alternative minimum tax are expected to provide additional substantial tax savings beginning in 2026. So we are poised for a very strong full year 2025.

再次提醒大家，我們已製定預算，從 2024 年起，調整後 EBITDA 將成長 4%，調整後 EPS 將成長 10%。因此，憑藉優異的業績，我們預計能夠實現更大的同比成長。正如我們上個季度提到的，預算協調法案為我們帶來了實質的稅收優惠，主要來自投資的全額費用化。此外，近期對企業替代最低稅的調整預計將從 2026 年開始帶來額外的巨額稅收節省。因此，我們已做好準備，迎接2025年全年強勁的業績。

We're on track to beat our budget and delivered double-digit earnings growth. We sanctioned additional high project high-return projects that will support future growth. We've improved our balance sheet resulting in enhanced credit ratings, and we expect meaningful cash flow benefits from tax reform, which will generate additional investment capacity. And with that, I'll turn it back to Kim for Q&A.

我們預計將超額完成預算目標，並實現了兩位數的獲利成長。我們批准了更多高回報、高效益的項目，這些項目將支持未來的成長。我們改善了資產負債表，從而提高了信用評級，我們預計稅收改革將帶來可觀的現金流收益，這將產生額外的投資能力。接下來，我將把問答環節交給金。

Okay, Michel, we'll come back on, and we'll take questions.

好的，米歇爾，我們稍後回來，我們會回答問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Theresa Chen, Barclays.

特蕾莎·陳，巴克萊銀行。

Good afternoon. I wanted to go back to your growth outlook and specifically the over $10 billion opportunity set in unsanctioned projects under development up, I think, from the previous $7 billion to $11 billion range.

午安.我想回到您之前的成長展望，特別是關於正在開發的未經批准的項目所帶來的超過 100 億美元的機會，我認為，這比之前的 70 億至 110 億美元範圍有所增加。

What has driven the seemingly improved outlook over the past few months -- how quickly do you think you can commercialize these growth opportunities? And where are you seeing the most interest for expansion projects amongst your customers.

過去幾個月來，是什麼因素推動了前景的改善？您認為這些成長機會能夠以多快的速度實現商業化？在您的客戶中，您發現哪些方面對擴建專案最感興趣？

So on the $10 billion, that's all the opportunities that the opportunities that we're pursuing right now. It's mostly natural gas. It supports the themes that we've mentioned here today, so export LNG, power, but there's also projects that exports to Mexico and industrial growth. And as I said, the opportunity set is very similar to when our backlog was at $3 billion. So we haven't seen any diminishment in the projects that we're looking at.

所以，這 100 億美元，就是我們目前正在追求的所有機會。主要成分是天然氣。它支持我們今天在這裡提到的主題，例如液化天然氣出口、電力，但也有向墨西哥出口的項目以及工業成長。正如我所說，目前的機會與我們積壓訂單達到 30 億美元時的機會非常相似。因此，我們尚未看到我們正在關注的項目出現任何縮減。

These projects are mostly across the Southern US. So they go all the way from Arizona to potentially Florida. And most of them are in smaller in size, I'd say, less than $250 million, but there are a few that are $1 billion-plus. So it's all of the board. It's power in Arizona, power in Texas power in New Mexico, power in Florida.

這些項目大多位於美國南部。所以他們的足跡一直延伸到亞利桑那州，甚至可能到佛羅裡達州。而且大多數專案規模較小，我想說，不到 2.5 億美元，但也有一些超過 10 億美元。所以，這就是整個棋盤。它在亞利桑那州、德克薩斯州、新墨西哥州和佛羅裡達州都擁有強大的力量。

-- If we need more egress from the -- from all the producing basins, the Haynesville, potentially the Marcellus Utica we need more gas moving to LNG. As Rich said, we've 9 Bcf of gas demand from the projects that have FID recently. So I mean it's across the board. And then today, we have potential project we're working on with respect to Western Gateway. So there's a lot of different opportunities out there.

——如果我們需要從所有產氣盆地（包括海恩斯維爾盆地、馬塞勒斯盆地和尤蒂卡盆地）獲得更多天然氣出口，我們就需要將更多的天然氣輸送到液化天然氣（LNG）。正如 Rich 所說，最近做出最終投資決定的項目，我們有 90 億立方英尺的天然氣需求。我的意思是，這種情況普遍存在。今天，我們正在研究一個與西部門戶相關的潛在項目。所以有很多不同的機會。

And on that last point, Kim, following this week's announcement of your open season for Western Gateway, can you talk about your projects positioning relative to ONEOK's competing Sunbelt project? And assuming that Western Gateway solicits sufficient commercial interest during the open season, can you talk about potential gating factors, regulatory or other rides that Kinder and [Phillips] may need to address before the project can be sanctioned?

關於最後一點，Kim，在本周宣布西部門戶項目開放競標後，您能否談談您的項目相對於 ONEOK 的競爭項目 Sunbelt 的定位？假設西部門戶計畫在開放申請期間獲得了足夠的商業興趣，您能否談談金德和[菲利普斯]在計畫獲得批准之前可能需要解決的潛在阻礙因素、監管或其他障礙？

So relative to the competition, I think their pipeline just goes into the Phoenix market. Currently, the Phoenix market is by us from the left as well as from the East. The project -- the proposed project with P66 and us would reverse our West line build a new pipeline from Borger to Phoenix. And so we would be sending barrels from the East into the Phoenix market. and reverse our West line so that you could potentially barrels could move on into the California market and potentially into the Las Vegas market.

所以相對於競爭對手而言，我認為他們的產品線只進入了鳳凰城市場。目前，鳳凰市場在我們左側和東側。該項目——即與 P66 和我們合作的擬議項目，將逆轉我們西線的路線，從博格爾到鳳凰城新建一條管道。因此，我們將把東部的桶裝原油運往鳳凰城市場，並改變西部的運輸路線，這樣桶裝原油就有可能運往加州市場，甚至拉斯維加斯市場。

So I think it's -- from our perspective, it's a very good project for Arizona. Arizona is a growing market. So it gives additional capacity to serve the Arizona market. Arizona is no longer dependent on California, where California has got some closing refineries. California gets potentially additional barrels coming to the California market.

所以我覺得——從我們的角度來看，這對亞利桑那州來說是一個非常好的項目。亞利桑那州是一個正在成長的市場。因此，它為服務亞利桑那州市場提供了額外的產能。亞利桑那州不再依賴加州，因為加州的一些煉油廠已經關閉。加州市場可能會迎來更多原油供應。

To the extent there are additional closures in California. And I think it's a great project because you're accessing multiple markets, you're not just going to one market. So in terms of the open season ends on December 19. And then from there, we'll need various regulatory approvals, and we would target a 2029 in service date.

如果加州還有其他地方關閉的話。我認為這是一個很棒的項目，因為你可以進入多個市場，而不僅僅是一個市場。所以，就狩獵季而言，狩獵季將於12月19日結束。接下來，我們需要獲得各種監管部門的批准，目標是在 2029 年投入使用。

Jeremy Tonet, JPMorgan.

Jeremy Tonet，摩根大通。

Hi, good afternoon.

您好，下午好。

Good afternoon.

午安.

Just want to follow up on some of the comments you had said there with KMI seeing an opportunity step more robust at any time in the company's future. And just want to, I guess, see if we could expand upon that in any way?

我想就您之前提到的 KMI 認為公司未來任何時候都有可能迎來更強勁的發展機會的一些評論做個補充。我想看看我們能否在這方面做些拓展？

And just wondering how you think about the landscape given Kinder's competitive positioning, it seems like it's a competitive market out there. And any thoughts that you could provide around that? And I guess, what could be the cadence of how this capital could fall into plan at a high level over time?

我想知道您如何看待金德的競爭定位，感覺現在的市場競爭非常激烈。您對此有什麼想法嗎？那麼，隨著時間的推移，這筆資金如何能按計畫逐步落實到高層呢？

So a couple of things. I think I walked through some of the background on the $10 billion in opportunities. But with respect to -- on competition, look, we're not going to win all these projects, but we're going to get our fair share. And what makes us very competitive is our existing footprint, which provides us with opportunities to build off of that footprint and we can provide our customer services that other competitors can't offer. And so -- including storage, and so that's really, at the end of the day, what differentiates us from our peers.

有兩件事。我認為我已經簡要介紹了價值 100 億美元的機會的一些背景。但就競爭而言，我們不可能贏得所有這些項目，但我們會得到我們應得的份額。我們之所以具有很強的競爭力，是因為我們現有的市場份額，這為我們提供了在此基礎上發展的機會，我們可以為客戶提供其他競爭對手無法提供的服務。因此——包括儲存在內，歸根結底，這才是我們與同行真正區別所在。

We also have a good track record on bringing projects in on time and on budget, which I think is helpful when time is important to our customers. And that's especially true, I think, for some of the data center and power customers. So I think in terms of how this comes -- how this -- the products of bringing these to that is -- that's hard to project. And so I can't tell you exactly what that's going to look like, but I think will bring significant projects to FID in 2026 based on that $10 billion backlog.

我們在按時按預算完成專案方面也有良好的記錄，我認為這對時間對我們的客戶來說非常有幫助。我認為，對於一些資料中心和電力客戶來說，尤其如此。所以我覺得，就其產生方式而言——即如何將這些轉化為那樣的產品——這很難預測。因此我無法確切地告訴你那會是什麼樣子，但我認為基於這 100 億美元的積壓項目，將在 2026 年為最終投資決策 (FID) 帶來重大項目。

Got it. That's very helpful. And then just a smaller question for me as it relates to the guide. It just seems like the language changed a little bit with how much going to exceed the guidance by out regular in the 2Q versus 3Q? And it seems like it's a little bit less at this point. Just wondering what other, I guess, changes in the backdrop you see versus the 2Q.

知道了。那很有幫助。最後，我還有一個關於指南的小問題。感覺措辭稍微有些變化，關於第二季和第三季常規銷售額將超出預期多少的問題？而現在看來，情況似乎有所改善。我只是想知道，與第二季相比，你認為背景方面還有哪些其他變化。

Yes. I mean there was a slight change on that, and it's really related to the RNG REMS -- the RNG volumes and the REMS price weakness.

是的。我的意思是，這方面略有變化，而且這確實與 RNG REMS 有關——RNG 的產量和 REMS 的價格疲軟。

Got it. I'll leave it there. Thank you.

知道了。我就說到這兒吧。謝謝。

Julien Dumoulin Smith, Jefferies.

Julien Dumoulin Smith，傑富瑞集團。

Hey, good afternoon team. Thank you, guys, very much for the time. I appreciate the opportunity. Maybe just picking up where the other guys just left off here. Can you elaborate a little bit on how you're seeing the opportunities emerge as it pertains to the shadow backlog?

嘿，各位下午好。非常感謝各位抽出時間。我非常珍惜這次機會。或許只是接著其他人未完成的工作繼續做下去。您能否詳細說明您如何看待與影子積壓工作相關的機會？

I know you gave some of these examples smaller and larger, but maybe regionally and how they pertain. I mean, obviously, we've seen examples recently in the last week here with a private backed pipeline FID in the Gulf Coast.

我知道你舉了一些規模大小不同的例子，但也許可以從地理角度以及它們之間的關聯性來考慮。我的意思是，很顯然，我們最近一周就看到了這樣的例子，例如墨西哥灣沿岸一條由私人支持的管道項目最終投資決定。

Could you elaborate a little bit on the power opportunities, both in as it pertains to Texas, and also maybe as it pertains to the backlog opportunity in the Southwest, I mean, obviously, we saw what your peer announced in the last few months, but how do you think about the future on the gas side in the El Paso system.

您能否詳細說明電力領域的機遇，包括德州的機遇，以及西南地區的積壓訂單機會？我的意思是，顯然，我們看到了您的同行在過去幾個月宣布的內容，但您如何看待埃爾帕索系統天然氣的未來？

Yes. I mean I think there's continued power development. A lot of it is for data centers, but there's other things that are driving power development coal retirements that some of those have pushed out some, but some of them are still -- some of them are still happening. And so what we see and there you need more peakers to back up renewables, which is what we're seeing in Texas.

是的。我的意思是，我認為電力產業會持續發展。許多電力都用於資料中心，但還有其他因素推動電力發展，煤炭淘汰也導致一些煤炭計畫被淘汰，但有些計畫仍在進行中。因此，我們看到，我們需要更多的調峰機組來支援再生能源，這正是我們在德州看到的情況。

And so on the data centers and the power conversions, I mean, we're seeing that in Mexico, we're seeing it potentially in Arizona, some places where maybe the pipeline that got it now recently doesn't go, wouldn't serve. We're seeing some in Colorado. We're seeing some potentially more in Arkansas in Florida, again, I'll just repeat some of these and the CPL come in.

所以，在資料中心和電力轉換方面，我的意思是，我們在墨西哥看到了這種情況，我們也可能在亞利桑那州看到了這種情況，在一些地方，最近輸送電力的管道可能不再經過，無法提供服務。我們在科羅拉多州也看到了一些。我們看到阿肯色州和佛羅裡達州可能還有更多這樣的情況，我再重複一下，然後 CPL 就會出現。

We're seeing opportunities to build out of the Haynesville to get gas further to the market, get more volumes potentially coming out of the [Marcellus Utica]. So there's a lot of different opportunities. Storage is a huge factor right now. people need a lot of storage. And so we're looking at some opportunities to expand our storage and some new greenfield opportunities.

我們看到了從海恩斯維爾油田向更遠的地方輸送天然氣，並有可能增加天然氣產量的機會。[馬塞勒斯·烏蒂卡]。所以有很多不同的機會。儲存空間現在是一個巨大的問題。人們需要大量的儲存空間。因此，我們正在尋找一些擴大現有倉儲空間的機會，以及一些新的綠地開發機會。

So one thing I'll add, especially out West, is we have strong connectivity to Mexico. So when you think about the power demands there, those are also rising. -- and not only from the base organic power, but Mexico also is evaluating their own data centers. And so our footprint, especially out West is very well connected along those lines. And then when you look out in the Southeast, you've seen the IRPs that have been put out by all the various states.

所以我想補充一點，尤其是在西部地區，我們與墨西哥有著強烈的連結。所以，當你考慮到那裡的電力需求時，你會發現這些需求也在不斷增長——不僅是基礎電力需求，墨西哥還在評估其自身的資料中心。因此，我們的業務佈局，尤其是在西部地區，與這些方面聯繫非常緊密。然後，當你放眼東南部時，你會看到各州都發布了綜合資源規劃 (IRP)。

Clearly, there's demand that's coming. And as you all know, we're well positioned in that market to try and capture some of that growth. when I go to the Gulf Coast, we continue to debottleneck and the plumbing to be able to get the molecules from the supply zones to the consuming markets. I think that's something you can kind of takeaway on things that we're working on. And then all of this gets put together with our -- when we evaluate storage and how to integrate storage and then supply access to these consuming markets. Those are kind of the big themes that we're seeing on the horizon.

顯然，市場需求正在成長。如大家所知，我們在這個市場中佔據了有利地位，力求抓住部分成長機會。當我去墨西哥灣沿岸地區時，我們會繼續疏通瓶頸，完善管道系統，以便將原料從供應區運送到消費市場。我認為這是我們目前正在做的事情中可以藉鏡的一點。然後，所有這些因素都會與我們評估儲存空間以及如何整合儲存並向這些消費市場提供供應管道結合。這些是我們目前看到的幾個主要發展趨勢。

Got it. And if I can pick a little bit -- I know you just alluded to the Southeast opportunities on does that line up with what we're seeing right now in the generation resource planning? I mean, obviously, we've upticked it pretty meaningfully here of late. Is that presently reflected? Or is there a little bit of a mark-to-market to happen on your side? And then also on the Western Gateway, if you could just clarify what the ultimate economics are on your side or at least the total dollars are.

知道了。如果我可以稍微問一下——我知道您剛才提到了東南地區的機遇，這與我們目前在發電資源規劃方面看到的情況是否一致？我的意思是，很顯然，我們最近在這方面已經有了相當大的提升。目前是否已反映這一點？或者，你們那邊是否需要進行一些市值調整？另外，關於西部門戶項目，您能否澄清一下貴方的最終經濟效益，或至少說明總金額是多少？

So I'll take the first question, and I'll turn it over to Kim and Mike on the second one. So Southeast, look, in terms of what we're in that $10 billion that Kim was referring to, that is taking into account some of the IRPs that are out there, especially in the Southeast. I mean that's what we see as infrastructure that's needed. And so I think to answer the first question, that is a subset of that $10 billion. And then I'll turn it over to Kim and Mike for the second piece.

那我先回答第一個問題，第二個問題交給 Kim 和 Mike 來回答。所以，就東南亞而言，你看，就金提到的 100 億美元而言，這考慮到了一些現有的綜合資源規劃，尤其是在東南亞地區。我的意思是，這就是我們認為需要的基礎設施。所以我認為，要回答第一個問題，那就是這 100 億美元的一部分。然後我會把第二部分交給 Kim 和 Mike。

I mean, in terms of the cost to build that pipeline, we're not going to get into that because as you know, there's a competitive project out there. And so the -- we don't want to compromise that position at this point in time.

我的意思是，就建造這條管道的成本而言，我們不打算深入討論，因為正如你所知，目前還有一個有競爭力的項目。所以——我們目前不想在這個立場上妥協。

Completely understood. Thank you, guys very much look forward to, working with you guys.

完全明白。謝謝各位，非常期待與你們合作。

Michael Blum, Wells Fargo.

麥可布魯姆，富國銀行。

Thanks, good afternoon, everyone. I Wanted to ask about Highland Express, the NGL conversion project. Just in terms of where do you stand on committed initial volumes? And where do you think that can go? And then I noticed in the press release, you talked about potentially some takeaway out of the Powder River as well. So I wonder if you can expand on that.

謝謝大家，下午好。我想諮詢一下高地快線（Highland Express）的天然氣液化轉換專案。就已承諾的初始交易量而言，你們的立場是什麼？你覺得這會發展成什麼樣子？然後我在新聞稿中註意到，你們也談到了從粉河事件中可能獲得的一些啟示。所以我想知道您是否可以詳細說明一下。

Yes. So sticking to our previous discussions, it's on track. We're on track to be ready first quarter next year for our initial commitment. Obviously, you all know we're also at a very aggressive competition with the incumbent there, so I won't get too much into the details on what's next.

是的。所以，按照我們之前的討論，一切都在照計畫進行。我們正按計劃推進，預計將於明年第一季完成我們的初步承諾。顯然，大家都知道我們與現任者之間也存在著非常激烈的競爭，所以我不會多談論下一步的細節。

That being said, we have some assets that we're effectively repurposing to be able to position ourselves to draw incremental barrels to the pipeline. And I will leave it at that until we actually have the next set of announcements to make, hopefully, very soon.

也就是說，我們正在有效地重新利用一些資產，以便能夠讓自己佔據有利位置，從而為管道輸送更多的原油。我就先說到這裡，等我們很快有下一批公告要發布的時候再說，希望這一天很快就能到來。

Okay. Fair enough. And then I wanted to ask you about the behind-the-meter opportunities. I know in the past, you've talked about maybe coming up with a solution with partners. So just want to see where that stands and if that can be a meaningful driver? And if that's part of that (inaudible)

好的。很公平。然後我想問你關於電錶後方的機會。我知道你過去曾談到或許可以和合作夥伴一起找到解決方案。所以，我只是想看看現狀如何，以及這是否能成為一個有意義的驅動因素？如果那是其中的一部分的話（聽不清楚）

If you're talking about investing in power, I think the answer is still -- that's not something that we're interested in doing. I think we've got plenty of opportunity, plenty to say grace over in our existing infrastructure business. That is what we are good at, of what we know how to do. And therefore, the growth that we're projecting is very high-quality growth, as I said, largely backed by take-or-pay contracts.

如果你說的是投資電力，我認為答案仍然是——我們對此不感興趣。我認為我們在現有的基礎設施業務方面有很多機會，有很多可以改進的地方。那是我們擅長的，是我們懂得如何做的事情。因此，正如我所說，我們預測的成長是非常高品質的成長，主要由照付不議合約支撐。

I think maybe we're missing a little bit is I think in the past, what we said is if there was a data center or something that wanted us to invest for some reason, maybe we might make a very small investment there. But that would just only be to facilitate a project getting done. That is not where we want to invest our dollars. And so what I would say is it is unlikely that we invest behind the meter.

我覺得我們可能有點疏忽了，因為過去我們說過，如果有個資料中心或其他什麼地方因為某些原因想讓我們投資，我們可能會在那裡進行一筆非常小的投資。但那隻是為了方便專案完成而已。我們不想把錢投到那裡。所以我認為，我們不太可能在表後進行投資。

But what -- but to add on to what Tim just said, we are looking at working with our partners to supply gas in certain instances to be able to support a consortium of folks to be able to provide reliable power. I mean I think that's the way you would look at our participation in the opportunity. we would be looking to build the infrastructure to be able to support that.

但是——補充一下蒂姆剛才說的，我們正在考慮與合作夥伴合作，在某些情況下供應天然氣，以便支持一個聯盟，從而能夠提供可靠的電力。我的意思是，我認為這就是看待我們參與這個機會的方式。我們會努力建構基礎設施來支持它。

Thanks.

謝謝。

We'll supply the gas.

我們會供應天然氣。

John Mackay, Goldman Sachs.

約翰麥凱，高盛集團。

Hey everyone, thanks for the time. I'm going to go to the shadow backlog, too, I guess, not to keep running through the same thing. But I guess I just want to ask one more way. When you're looking at the $10 billion, how much of this is look at the competitive environment, we'll see what we win, we have a lot to bring to the table versus really waiting for actually that demand to materialize the next LNG FID, some larger power built out across the Southeast, et cetera. Maybe just what are the kind of buckets between the two in terms of what you see in front of you?

大家好，感謝大家抽空。我想我也要去看看之前積壓的工作，免得一直重複做同樣的事情。但我還想再問一次。當你審視這 100 億美元時，其中有多少取決於競爭環境，我們會看看我們能贏得什麼，我們有很多東西可以貢獻，而不是真正等待需求真正實現，例如下一個液化天然氣最終投資決定、東南部一些更大的電力項目等等。或許，在你眼前所見，兩者之間究竟存在哪些類型的「桶」？

I mean, these are projects where we are actively talking to customers about them. And so I think we're having conversations with people we are putting together estimates on what things would cost. We're looking at returns. These are all things that are active conversations internally.

我的意思是，這些都是我們積極與客戶溝通的項目。所以我覺得我們正在和相關人員溝通，估算各項開支。我們正在關注回報。這些都是公司內部正在積極討論的議題。

That's fair. Maybe just follow-up second question. I appreciate the comments on the guide around the RNG side being softer. Can you talk about the rest of the business? I mean, gas was relatively strong. Any more kind of one-offs in there? Or is this a kind of healthier run rate?

這很合理。或許可以接著問第二個問題。我很感謝大家對指南中關於隨機數產生器（RNG）方面應該更寬鬆的建議。您能談談公司的其他方面嗎？我的意思是，汽油味比較濃。還有其他類型的特例嗎？或者說，這是一種更健康的運行速度？

I think gas is very strong. We didn't have much of a winter or much of a summer. And they're still -- even if you take out the Outrigger acquisition, they're still going to nicely beat their budget. Terminals is also doing very well this year and should exceed its budget products, I'd say, it's kind of right on its budget, slightly short, but it's pretty small. And then where the weakness is really in RNG and a little bit on CO2.

我覺得氣體濃度很高。我們幾乎沒有經歷冬天，也沒有經歷夏天。即使不考慮對 Outrigger 的收購，他們仍然能夠輕鬆超出預算。Terminals 今年的表現也非常好，應該會超出預算，我覺得它基本上符合預算，稍微有點不足，但規模很小。而真正的弱點在於 RNG，還有一點在於 CO2。

That's clear. Thank you.

這一點很清楚。謝謝。

Spiro Dounis, Citi.

Spiro Dounis，花旗銀行。

Thanks operator. Good afternoon team. I wanted to start with the 2026 outlook. I know we're going to be getting a formal update from you guys in a few weeks. But maybe just at a high level, if you just talk about some of the variables you could see impacting the various segments? And maybe any reason 2026 growth wouldn't at least sort of match up the 2025 growth rate?

謝謝接線生。下午好，各位同事。我想先展望一下2026年。我知道幾週後我們會收到你們的正式更新。但或許可以從宏觀層面來談談，如果只討論一些可能影響各個細分市場的變數呢？或許有什麼原因導致 2026 年的成長率至少無法與 2025 年的成長率大致持平？

Well, I think we're going through a process right now. And so I think it's too early to talk about what the growth rates might be. But in terms of if you want to go tailwinds, headwinds, something like that, tailwinds, we've got expansion projects. We've got a full year of the '25 that we'll get in '26. And then you've got partial year '26 growth projects.

嗯，我認為我們目前正處於一個過程中。所以我覺得現在討論成長率可能是多少還太早。但就順風、逆風之類的因素而言，順風的話，我們有擴張項目。我們有整整一年的「25」數據將在「26」得到。然後還有一些 2026 年的部分成長項目。

We've got contract escalators in our terminals business and our products business, interest rates are coming down. So that should be a tailwind for us not expecting a significant increase in taxes, given what we've seen on the big beautiful bill and the bonus depreciation. As always, we see a little bit of decline potentially in CO2 in oil volumes. And then what's unknown is I think commodity prices at this point in time will just have to see where those come out.

我們的終端業務和產品業務都有合約升級機制，利率也在下降。鑑於我們已經看到了巨額稅收法案和額外折舊，這應該對我們有利，因為我們預計稅收不會大幅增加。像往常一樣，我們看到石油中二氧化碳的含量可能會略有下降。至於目前大宗商品價格的走向，我認為只能拭目以待了。

Yes. Fair enough. Second one, if you could believe it. I do have another follow-up on the opportunity set. And so just curious, how we should think about the time frame that either the $10 billion or the 10 Bcf a day captures I'm asking from two different perspective.

是的。很公平。第二個，你敢信嗎？關於此次商機，我還有後續跟進。所以，我很好奇，我們應該如何看待每天 100 億美元或 100 億立方英尺天然氣所涵蓋的時間範圍？我從兩個不同的角度提出這個問題。

To the extent these are all opportunities you're sort of chasing within the decade, is there an opportunity here to see investment per year CapEx go up above $3 billion. And then conversely, how should we think about your ability to maybe deliver more short-cycle cash flows. A lot of these projects have later dated great projects. But just curious if you could sort of fill the front end up more, too.

如果這些都是你希望在未來十年內追逐的機會，那麼每年資本支出是否有可能超過 30 億美元？反過來，我們該如何看待您提供更多短期現金流的能力呢？這些項目很多後來都被證明是偉大的項目。不過我很好奇，能不能也把車頭部分填得更飽滿一些。

Yes. So I think if you think about -- these are going to be both on regulated projects and regulated projects. And so the regulated projects now have a shorter time cycle than they have in the past. And so that's very good. I think the FERC has gotten rid of a 71. So that five months has gone -- that five-month waiting period is gone. And I think they're working really hard to get permits delivered more quickly.

是的。所以我覺得如果你仔細想想——這些都將是受監管的項目和受監管的項目。因此，受監管項目的周期比過去短。那非常好。我認為聯邦能源監管委員會已經廢除了第 71 號修正案。五個月過去了──五個月的等待期結束了。我認為他們正在努力加快發放許可證的速度。

So that's going to shorten that should shorten up your capital cycle some. I think the gating item is probably going to be compression. And so that's going to -- that will limit how much you can probably shorten it up. But I think in general, the FERC projects are going to be three -- a little over three years probably from the time you sanctional to the time you're in service.

這樣應該可以縮短你的資金周轉週期。我認為限制因素很可能是壓縮。所以，這將限制你能縮短的距離。但我認為，總的來說，FERC 專案從獲得批准到投入使用，大概需要三年多一點的時間。

And I think shorter capital will be on the gathering side and then on all the Texas intrastate projects, all the pipelines in Texas and then potentially other intrastate pipelines in other states. So generally, I think you're going to start filling up the out years but you may have some near-term capital, which increases '27, '28 CapEx somewhat.

我認為短期資金將用於天然氣收集方面，以及所有德州境內的項目、德州的所有管道，以及其他州的州內管道項目。所以總的來說，我認為你會開始填滿未來幾年的預算，但你可能會有一些短期資金，這會在一定程度上增加 2027 年和 2028 年的資本支出。

But I think we have plenty of free cash flow and balance sheet capacity to be able to handle any increases that we see above $2.5 billion or $3 billion if you think about it. I'm not giving any guidance here. I'm just going out a rough number. If we have $5.5 billion of DCF, and you've got $2.6 billion of dividends, you've got $2.9 billion of cash flow to support the expansion projects.

但我認為，我們有足夠的自由現金流和資產負債表能力來應對任何超過 25 億美元或 30 億美元的成長。我在這裡不提供任何指導。我只是大概估算一下。如果我們有 55 億美元的 DCF，加上 26 億美元的股息，那麼我們就有 29 億美元的現金流來支持擴張項目。

Then our balance sheet right now is sitting at 3.9 times every 0.1 times as $800 million. I don't -- we're probably not going to run it up to 4.5%, but you've got a $3 billion-ish at least a room there. And then over time, that debt to EBITDA is going to come down more as we bring these projects online.

那麼我們目前的資產負債表是每0.1倍就是8億美元，本益比為3.9倍。我不這麼認為——我們可能不會把利率提高到 4.5%，但至少那裡有大約 30 億美元的資金。然後隨著時間的推移，隨著這些項目陸續上線，債務與 EBITDA 的比率將會進一步下降。

And so that balance sheet capacity is going to increase over time. And then I think there is also very attractive third-party capital out there if we wanted to access it. So I think we've got I'm not worried about capacity to finance these expansions. I think they are good return projects, and we will find ways to do them without compromising our balance sheet.

因此，資產負債表的承載能力會隨著時間的推移而提高。而且我認為，如果我們想獲得資金，市場上也有非常有吸引力的第三方資金。所以我認為我們有能力為這些擴張項目提供資金，我並不擔心。我認為這些都是回報豐厚的項目，我們會找到在不損害資產負債表的前提下完成這些項目的方法。

Got it. Let's double, Kim. I'll leave it there. Thank you.

知道了。金，我們來加倍吧。我就說到這兒吧。謝謝。

Keith Stanley, Wolfe Research.

Keith Stanley，Wolfe Research。

Hi, good afternoon. Just wanted to follow up on Western Gateway and I know you don't want to say a total capital cost. But my questions are more on the structure. So if Philips is building the new pipe and I think your capital investment is just a line reversal and maybe some tankage.

您好，下午好。我只是想跟進一下西部門戶項目的情況，我知道您不想透露總投資額。但我的問題比較是關於結構方面的。所以如果飛利浦正在建造新管道，我認為你的資本投資只是管道改道，可能還有一些儲罐。

Is it fair to think your portion of the CapEx is a lot smaller in this project? And then the second question is the structure of the JV, so you're contributing SFPP, they build Western Gateway. And then is it roughly like a 50-50 JV from there?

認為您在該專案中的資本支出份額要小得多，這種想法合理嗎？第二個問題是合資企業的結構，你出資SFPP，他們建造西部門戶。然後，從那以後，大概就是五、五開的合資企業嗎？

Yes. I think it's going to be around a 50-50 JV. And so yes, because we're contributing assets, our capital expenditure for the new assets would be a little bit less than what P66 would have to contribute.

是的。我認為會是五五開的合資企業。所以，是的，因為我們投入了資產，所以我們用於新資產的資本支出會比 P66 需要投入的要少一些。

Okay. Great. And then second question, I think, Kim, you referred to potential TGP projects that would egress out of the Appalachia region. I think there's been a few capacity reservations for projects. Can you just talk about what you think is possible or doable to increase capacity out of Appalachia on TGP?

好的。偉大的。第二個問題是，金，我想你指的是可能從阿巴拉契亞地區流出的TGP計畫。我認為已經有一些項目預留了產能。您能否談談您認為在TGP上增加阿巴拉契亞地區產能的可能性或可​​能性？

Yes. So this is Steve, Keith. Yes, we've been working diligently on trying to find ways to get incremental egress out of the basin as these consuming markets develop with the demand that Rich Kim talked about earlier, it's incumbent on us to get incremental gas out of the basin.

是的。這位是史蒂夫，基斯。是的，我們一直在努力尋找方法，隨著消費市場的發展和需求的增長（正如 Rich Kim 之前提到的），逐步從盆地中輸送天然氣，我們有責任逐步從盆地中輸送天然氣。

We're in terms of what that capacity amount is still being worked on. But needless to say, I would say just rough numbers, north of half of Bcf is what we're trying to get but still early, and I take that with the grant auto we're done with all the diligence.

關於產能的具體金額，我們仍在研究中。但毋庸置疑，我只能說，粗略估計，我們的目標是超過 50 億立方英尺，但這還處於早期階段，而且我認為，有了撥款，我們已經完成了所有的盡職調查。

Zack Van Everen, TPH.

Zack Van Everen，TPH。

Thanks for taking my question. Maybe going over to the Haynesville, it sounds like volumes continue to grow there. I think on the last few calls, you guys have mentioned you're getting close to capacity. Maybe an update there? And then is this from your largest customer on that system? Or are you seeing private start to flow volumes as well?

謝謝您回答我的問題。或許去海恩斯維爾那邊看看，聽起來那裡的銷售量還在持續成長。我認為在最近幾次通話中，你們都提到你們的產能即將達到極限。或許那裡會有更新？那麼，這是您該系統上的最大客戶提交的嗎？還是您也看到了私有資金開始流入？

Yes. So one, we are -- as Tom mentioned earlier, we are pretty much at capacity. We're just waiting for when we cross the record, hopefully, any day now. But I think it's not only our largest customer, but there are a few of the other privates that are also looking to increase their drilling in response to the demand that's coming our way. And so we do see meaningful ramp up next year in the Haynesville.

是的。所以第一，正如湯姆之前提到的，我們幾乎已經滿載運轉了。我們正等待著打破紀錄的那一天，希望就在這幾天。但我認為，它不僅是我們最大的客戶，還有其他一些私人企業也在尋求增加鑽探活動，以回應即將到來的需求。因此，我們預計明年海恩斯維爾的比賽將會有顯著的開局。

Yes. And I think quarter-over-quarter, in the Haynesville volumes are up 15%. So we're seeing our customers bring on these volumes and you might remember, we announced last quarter a $500 million investment in the Haynesville, which is -- it's a lot of treating capacity, but also some incremental pipe capacity to be able to accommodate our customer volumes.

是的。而且我認為，海恩斯維爾的銷量環比增長了 15%。所以我們看到客戶帶來了這些業務量，您可能還記得，我們​​上個季度宣佈在海恩斯維爾投資 5 億美元，這不僅意味著大量的處理能力，還意味著一些新增的管道容量，以便能夠滿足客戶的業務量需求。

Got it. That makes sense. And then maybe moving over --

知道了。這很有道理。然後或許會搬家--

We expect it to be one of the strongest -- probably the fastest-growing basin. Our internal projections are it's going to grow almost 11 Bcf a day between 2024 and 2030. So it's going to go up to probably 23 Bcf a day in terms of production. So I think we're seeing opportunities today, but I expect we'll continue to see opportunities over time both to invest in the Haynesville and to take molecules away from the Haynesville.

我們預計它將成為最強勁的流域之一，甚至可能是成長最快的流域。我們內部預測，2024 年至 2030 年間，天然氣日產量將增加近 110 億立方英尺。所以，天然氣日產量可能會上升到 230 億立方英尺。所以我認為我們今天看到了機會，但我預計隨著時間的推移，我們將繼續看到機會，既可以投資海恩斯維爾，也可以從海恩斯維爾提取分子。

Got you. No, that all makes sense. I appreciate the color. And then maybe one on the Permian West expansion open season it looks like that gas is heading west bound. Just curious if that could be upsized if the demand is there. And then maybe some color on the customer mix. There's obviously some data centers where that expansion is heading. Is there demand also beyond Texas as well?

抓到你了。不，這一切都說得通。我喜歡這個顏色。然後，或許在二疊紀西部油田擴建開放季，看起來天然氣正在向西輸送。我只是好奇，如果有需求的話，是否可以擴大規模。然後或許可以介紹一下客戶組成。顯然，這種擴張的目標是一些資料中心。除了德州以外，其他地方也有需求嗎？

Yes. Look, I mean, I think -- I believe you're referring to the smaller open season that we've got out there going west, that is to serve power. And obviously, as the open season closes, we'll evaluate the bids and look at what we can do to accommodate the capacity.

是的。你看，我的意思是，我認為——我相信你指的是我們向西推進的較小規模的開放狩獵季，那是為了服務電力。顯然，隨著公開招標季的結束，我們將評估投標情況，並考慮如何滿足產能需求。

Clearly, in and around that area. And then if you go to flip over one state over into New Mexico, there's a lot of activity on the power side. And so we're just going to have to evaluate how the bids come across.

顯然，就在那區域及其周邊地區。然後，如果你把目光轉向新墨西哥州，你會發現電力方面有很多活動。所以，我們只需要評估一下這些投標方案的效果如何。

That's it. Makes sense. Thanks for all the answers.

就是這樣。有道理。感謝大家的回答。

Brandon Bingham, Scotiabank.

Brandon Bingham，加拿大豐業銀行。

Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking the questions. Just one quick one here for me. I would just be curious as to what you guys think the longer-term market dynamics are in California for the refining products market and whether or not there's upside potential for Western Gateway or any other future growth into that market? Just any high-level thoughts you have?

嘿，下午好。謝謝您回答問題。我這裡就簡單問一個問題。我很好奇各位認為加州煉油產品市場的長期市場動態如何，以及西部門戶（Western Gateway）或其他任何未來進入該市場的成長潛力如何？有什麼高屋建瓴的想法嗎？

Yes, I'd say we wouldn't want to speculate on the California markets, what's happening there. But if you think about our reversal of the West line and that volume need now to be filled through the new gateway line into Phoenix, you've got this access into California.

是的，我認為我們不應該對加州市場以及那裡正在發生的事情進行猜測。但如果你考慮到我們對西線的改造，以及現在需要通過通往鳳凰城的新門戶線路來滿足的貨運量，你就有了進入加利福尼亞州的通道。

So depending on what that California refining market does. You've got the capacity across that West line to continue to grow with changes in that market. And then as we've talked before, you also have access beyond through CALNEV line into Las Vegas, Nevada.

所以這取決於加州煉油市場的走勢。你們有能力透過西線繼續發展，以適應該市場的變化。而且正如我們之前討論過的，您還可以通過 CALNEV 線進入內華達州拉斯維加斯。

Okay, great, that's helpful. I'll leave it there.

好的，太好了，這很有幫助。我就說到這兒吧。

Jason Gabelman, TD Cowen.

Jason Gabelman，TD Cowen。

Yeah, hey, thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to ask about the shadow backlog as well. And you mentioned both kind of large-scale and smaller projects. And I was hoping to get a bit more color on the larger projects. If I look at the backlog that you have right now in projects and execution, it's kind of large projects that are all serving Texas and Southeast.

好的，謝謝你回答我的問題。我還想問一下影子積壓的狀況。您提到了各種規模的項目，既有大型項目，也有小型項目。我原本希望在較大的項目中能加入更多色彩。如果我看一下你們目前在專案和執行方面的積壓工作，就會發現都是一些服務於德州和東南部的大型專案。

Should we assume the large projects in the backlog are kind of similar markets they serve or is it kind of a bit different? I noted, for example, you mentioned Mexico a couple of times and wondering if that's one of the larger projects in the backlog.

我們應該假設待辦事項清單中的大型項目服務於類似的市場，還是說它們服務於略有不同的市場？例如，我注意到您幾次提到墨西哥，我想知道這是否是待辦事項清單中較大的項目之一。

Well, so all these projects are competitive, almost everyone that we're working on. And so that's why we haven't given it -- we've tried to be very broad in how we describe but this drives the backlog. So what I would say about the larger projects in the backlog is generally, they are around the themes of supporting export LNG and supporting power.

嗯，所以所有這些項目都具有競爭性，我們正在做的幾乎每一個項目都是如此。所以這就是為什麼我們還沒有給出答案——我們試圖用非常廣泛的方式來描述，但這導致了積壓。所以，關於積壓的大型項目，我想說的是，它們通常都圍繞著支​​持液化天然氣出口和支持電力這兩個主題。

Okay. Understood. And then my other question is just on M&A. Given there's starting to see once again a bit of a larger multiple dispersion between natural gas and liquids names? And given you do have a decent sized nonnatural gas business.

好的。明白了。我的另一個問題是關於併購的。鑑於天然氣和液體的名稱之間再次出現較大的多重差異？而且，你確實擁有規模可觀的非天然氣業務。

I wonder if there's opportunities out there or hold in the portfolio that you'd be interested in filling especially if crude oil prices fall and some other companies become available?

我想知道市場上或您目前投資組合中是否有您感興趣的投資機會，尤其是在原油價格下跌、其他一些公司出現收購機會的情況下？

Are you talking about buying?

您是在說購買嗎？

Yes.

是的。

So look, I mean I think acquisitions, M&A is always opportunistic. And so we will look at opportunities for assets that set our strategy, which is owning energy assets, energy infrastructure assets. Fee-based and we can do it on returns that we think are appropriate on a risk-return basis and that we can do within keeping our balance sheet within the metrics 3.5 to 4.5 times debt to EBITDA.

所以你看，我的意思是，我認為收購、併購總是機會主義的。因此，我們將尋找符合我們策略的資產機會，即擁有能源資產、能源基礎設施資產。我們以收費為基礎，並根據我們認為合適的風險回報進行收費，同時將資產負債表的債務與 EBITDA 比率控制在 3.5 到 4.5 倍以內。

So I don't -- again, I think our view is there's unlimited capital for good returns, good risk return opportunities. And so we'll continue to look at those. We've done some in the recent past. We haven't done anything that is huge, but we did one at the end -- the beginning of this year in Outrigger. We did one last year as well. And so those things are hard to predict. But I think we either have the capital depending on the size or can find the capital to pursue those when they come about.

所以我不——再說一遍，我認為我們的觀點是，有無限的資本可以帶來良好的回報，良好的風險回報機會。所以我們會繼續關注這些問題。我們最近也做過一些。我們沒有做過什麼大事，但我們在今年年底——也就是年初——在 Outrigger 做了一件大事。我們去年也做過一次。所以這些事情很難預測。但我認為，要么我們有足夠的資金（取決於項目規模），要么我們可以在機會出現時找到資金來追求這些項目。

Okay, great. Thanks for the answers.

好的，太好了。謝謝大家的解答。

Dave Winans, Prudential.

戴夫威南斯，保誠集團。

Hey, thank you for taking a by side question. I appreciate it. You guys got a great opportunity set in natural gas, but just kind of switching gears a little bit here to the CO2 business at least one operator is talking about potentially using CO2 suites in some of these type plays out in the Midland and Delaware basins and such. Is that something you guys have looked at? Does that represent a business opportunity for Kinder Morgan? Or do you need to see more proof of concept around something like that?

嘿，謝謝你回答我這個題外話。謝謝。你們在天然氣領域擁有絕佳的機會，但讓我們稍微轉換一下主題，談談二氧化碳業務。至少有一家業者正在討論在米德蘭盆地和特拉華盆地等地的某些油氣開發項目中使用二氧化碳裝置的可能性。你們有沒有考慮過這個問題？這是否為金德摩根公司帶來了商機？或者您需要看到更多類似概念的驗證？

Are you talking about participating in that Dave? Or are you talking about supplying the CO2?

戴夫，你是說要參與那件事嗎？還是您指的是供應二氧化碳？

Either.

任何一個。

And I think with regards to supplying the CO2, we certainly would be interested in that. I think in terms of the other side of that, I think we would have to look at that a lot more closely and really seriously look at the risk/return opportunity there before we would consider investing.

至於二氧化碳的供應，我認為我們當然會很感興趣。我認為從另一個角度來看，我們需要更仔細地研究一下，認真評估其中的風險/回報機會，然後再考慮投資。

And it depends on my understanding on a lot of these, Anthony, is it depends on how they frac that deal to begin with. So whether they would be successful CO2 candidates. I think any time you're doing something new, you need to get a much higher return on that to compensate for the risk of doing something that you haven't spent a lot of time doing before. Obviously, we know what we're doing in CO2, but we haven't done a lot of flooding from these previously for fracked fields.

安東尼，據我了解，很多事情都取決於他們最初是如何分割這筆交易的。那麼，它們是否會成為成功的二氧化碳候選者呢？我認為，任何時候你嘗試做一件新的事情，都需要獲得更高的回報，以彌補你以前沒有花很多時間去做的事情所帶來的風險。顯然，我們很清楚二氧化碳的使用方法，但我們以前並沒有對水力壓裂油田進行大量的二氧化碳灌溉。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Jean Ann Salisbury, Bank of America.

Jean Ann Salisbury，美國銀行。

Hi Kim. I just wanted to follow up on the comments that you've made about needing to build pipelines from kind of Tier 2 basins, not the Haynesville to the LNG that's coming online. One issue, I guess, that I had been thinking about is that it's a little bit unclear who would be willing to underwrite these contracts with the LNG builders kind of being linked to Henry Hub and the EMPs maybe not wanting to take long-term contracts.

你好，金。我只是想就您之前關於需要從二級盆地（而不是從海恩斯維爾盆地到即將投產的液化天然氣項目）修建管道的評論做個後續說明。我一直在思考的一個問題是，目前還不清楚誰願意為這些合約提供擔保，因為液化天然氣建設者與亨利樞紐有某種聯繫，而能源管理公司可能不想簽訂長期合約。

So I was just wondering if you could give any color on if you see that being kind of a constraint to these [being built] and just if you think it will be a mix of end users, E&Ps and marketers on those trends of pipelines?

所以我想知道，您能否就此發表一些看法，您認為這是否會成為這些管道建設的限制因素，以及您認為最終用戶、勘探與生產企業和營銷人員是否會對這些管道發展趨勢有共同的看法？

Yes. I mean second-tier basins, something like the Eagle Ford, I think, is very well positioned. And I think there's, one, that would be great for us because we've got a great position in the Eagle Ford -- and I think that is a basin that could grow more than what is in a lot of the current projections. In a place where infrastructure is relatively easy to build. And then I think the Haynesville has a lot of growth to come to support this. But (inaudible)?

是的。我的意思是，像鷹灘這樣的二線盆地，我認為地理位置非常優越。我認為其中有一點對我們來說非常重要，因為我們在鷹灘盆地佔據著有利位置——而且我認為這個盆地的成長潛力可能超過目前許多預測所顯示的水平。在基礎設施相對容易建設的地方。我認為海恩斯維爾未來還有很大的發展空間來支撐這一點。但（聽不清楚）？

Yes. When we look at this, I think as the markets start figuring out what -- where they can actually get a molecule that will drive. So I would -- the way I would answer the question right now is that would be driven primarily by the market pulling from the supply and then some of the producing base producers kind of complementing, it's going to take a little bit of both, especially in the second-tier basins.

是的。當我們審視這個問題時，我認為隨著市場開始弄清楚——在哪裡才能真正獲得能夠推動發展的分子。所以，我現在對這個問題的回答是，這主要受市場需求驅動，供應減少，然後一些生產基地生產商會進行補充，兩者缺一不可，尤其是在二線盆地。

And I think that's going to evolve over time as the plumbing gets kind of discovered where we can get gas where you can source gas and how that moves through the networks to the grid -- the pipeline grids to be able to get to the consumer. That's the way I would think about that.

我認為隨著時間的推移，隨著我們對天然氣管道的了解不斷加深，例如從哪裡獲取天然氣，從哪裡獲取天然氣，以及天然氣如何透過管網輸送到消費者手中，這種情況將會逐漸改變。我也是這麼想的。

Great, I'll leave it there. Thank you for taking my question.

好的，我就說到這裡。感謝您回答我的問題。

Thank you. At this time, I am showing no further questions.

謝謝。目前我沒有其他問題要問。

Okay, Michelle, thank you very much, and everybody, have a good evening.

好的，米歇爾，非常感謝你，各位，祝你們晚上愉快。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may go ahead and disconnect at this time.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線了。