IRSA Inversiones y Representaciones SA (IRS) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone. I'm Santiago Donato, investor relations officer of IRSA, and I welcome you to the 3rd quarter of fiscal year 2025 results conference call. First of all, I would like to remind you that both audio and a slideshow may be accessed through company's investor relations website at www. irsa.com.ar by clicking on the banner webcast link. The following presentation and the earnings release are also available for download on the company website. After management remarks, there will be a question and answer session for analysts and investors. If you want to make a question, please use the chat. Before we begin, I would like to remind you that this call is being recorded and that information discussed today may include forward-looking statements regarding the company's financial and operating performance. All projections are subject to risk and uncertainties, and actual results may differ materially. Please refer to the detailed note in the company's earnings release regarding forward-looking statements. I will now turn the call over to Mr. Matias Gaivironsky, CFO.

大家早安。我是 IRSA 投資者關係官 Santiago Donato，歡迎您參加 2025 財年第三季業績電話會議。首先，我想提醒您，您可以透過點擊橫幅網絡廣播鏈接，在公司的投資者關係網站 www.irsa.com.ar 上訪問音頻和幻燈片。以下簡報和收益報告也可在公司網站上下載。管理階層發言後，將為分析師和投資人安排問答環節。如果您想提問，請使用聊天。在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，本次通話正在錄音，今天討論的資訊可能包括有關公司財務和營運績效的前瞻性陳述。所有預測都存在風險和不確定性，實際結果可能存在重大差異。請參閱公司收益報告中有關前瞻性陳述的詳細說明。現在我將把電話轉給財務長 Matias Gaivironsky 先生。

Good morning everybody. We are beginning our call for the 3rd quarter 2025 results. We are glad to post, again of 35 billion pesos reverting the loss that we had in the previous six months as of December that was 40 billion pesos. During the quarter. We saw again positive trend regarding our tenant sales. In fact, there was an increase of 13.4% compared with the previous or the same quarter of the previous year. We still are below, when we some all the nine month period, 4.6% below the previous year, but we see a positive trend going forward. In fact, During the last quarter, using the last 12 months in dollar terms, we are posting a record high EBITDA for the most for the last 10 years. Regarding the offices, we maintain our occupancy at 100%. Hotels, we saw a drop in revenues and occupancy that we will show later about Rambla del Plata, the main project of the company. Jorge will mention a good pro progress in the commercialization of the, of the project. So we are very happy on the results, considering that we launched the project just around 9 months ago. Finally, during the quarter we tapped again the international capital market, issuing notes for 10 years for $300 million. So with that, let me introduce Santiago Donato, our IRO, to continue with the presentation.

大家早安。我們正在開始預測 2025 年第三季的業績。我們很高興地宣布，350 億比索的損失再次彌補了截至 12 月的六個月的 400 億比索的損失。在本季度。我們再次看到租戶銷售的正面趨勢。事實上，與上一季或去年同期相比，成長了 13.4%。當我們回顧整個九個月時，我們仍然低於去年同期 4.6% 的水平，但我們看到了未來的正面趨勢。事實上，在上個季度，以過去 12 個月的美元計算，我們的 EBITDA 創下了 10 年來的最高紀錄。至於辦公室，我們的入住率維持在 100%。飯店方面，我們發現收入和入住率有所下降，稍後我們將介紹該公司的主要項目 Rambla del Plata。豪爾赫將提到該專案商業化的良好進展。考慮到我們大約 9 個月前才啟動這個項目，我們對結果感到非常滿意。最後，我們在本季再次利用國際資本市場，發行了 3 億美元 10 年期票據。因此，請允許我介紹我們的 IRO Santiago Donato 繼續演講。

Thank you, Matias. Well, here we can see the operating figures for the shopping malls, as Matias mentioned before. This segment continued its recovery process and observed very good results, great results in the third quarter of the fiscal year '25. As you can see, tenant sales grew by 13.4% compared to the same quarter in 2024. This is the first quarter of real growth since the current government took, administration in December 23. So great news shows the recovery of the economic activity and real wages in Argentina. In the next page, we can see, the 10 years historical evida in dollar terms.

謝謝你，馬蒂亞斯。好吧，正如 Matias 之前提到的，我們在這裡可以看到購物中心的營運數據。該部門繼續復甦，並在 2025 財年第三季取得了非常好的業績。如您所見，與 2024 年同期相比，租戶銷售額成長了 13.4%。這是本屆政府自12月23日執政以來首次實現實際成長。如此好消息顯示阿根廷的經濟活動和實質工資正在復甦。在下一頁中，我們可以看到以美元計算的 10 年歷史證據。

The malls are showing great results in dollar terms. They're reaching a bid of 100, almost $160 million. This is a record in our last 10 years. That was an average of 1, almost $20 million. So really good performance on the malls, occupancy reached levels of 98.1%. This is excluding the rasa Te Mas, our latest shopping acquired recently that we expect to improve its occupancy level in the upcoming month.

從美元計算，這些商場的表現十分可觀。他們的出價達到了 100，接近 1.6 億美元。這是我們過去十年來的記錄。平均為 1，接近 2000 萬美元。商場的表現確實很好，入住率達到了 98.1%。這還不包括我們最近收購的最新購物中心 rasa Te Mas，我們預計其入住率將在下個月提高。

In this page we can see the operating figures for the office segment. We currently manage a lower stock, just 58,000 square meters of GLA. Remember that we have been selling since the pandemic, many square meters. We hold a portfolio of 58,000, mostly A plus and A, mostly premium. The office segment is evolving very favorably, mainly in terms of occupancy. There is, we are seeing a higher return to office in Buenos Aires City.

在此頁面中我們可以看到辦公室部門的營運數據。我們目前管理的庫存較低，僅為 58,000 平方米的 GLA。請記住，自從疫情爆發以來，我們已經銷售了很多平方米。我們持有 58,000 個投資組合，大部分是 A+ 和 A，大部分是優質。辦公大樓市場發展十分良好，主要體現在入住率方面。是的，我們看到布宜諾斯艾利斯市的辦公室報酬率更高。

So, we think that if the GDP grows next year, we can see even an increase in rents that until now they remain in levels of $25 stable at $25 per square meter per month. From the three rental segments, the hotels are the ones, even though it is marginal in our portfolio, is the one that is more challenging this year after two years of recording records of it and occupancy. This year, the hotels and the tourism activity in Argentina is facing lower influx of. International tourism due to the opex appreciation or the appreciation of the peso, the Argentine peso, compared to the US dollars.

因此，我們認為，如果明年 GDP 成長，我們甚至可以看到租金上漲，到目前為止，租金仍穩定在每月每平方公尺 25 美元的水平。從三個租賃細分市場來看，儘管飯店在我們的投資組合中佔比不大，但經過兩年的記錄和入住率後，今年飯店租賃面臨的挑戰更大。今年，阿根廷的飯店和旅遊活動面臨客流量減少的問題。由於營運支出升值或阿根廷比索相對於美元升值，國際旅遊業也受到提振。

But we still have a good level of occupancy. 65% is the average of the three hotels. [Saohao] is affected, but it is affected because there is a, there, we are doing some construction. Works, some rooms that are under construction works, and rates are a little bit down, but it's a good diversification to our portfolio and the shopping centers in the total rental rental segment are more than compensating this effect in hotels that is more marginal. So really good results in the rental segment, and I will now give the word to Jorge Cruces, CIO, for all the development part of IRSA.

但我們的入住率仍然很高。三家飯店的平均入住率為65%。 [掃好]受到了影響，但受到影響是因為我們正在那裡進行一些施工。工程，一些正在建設中的房間，價格略有下降，但這對我們的投資組合來說是一個很好的多樣化，而總租賃部分的購物中心足以彌補酒店中這種更邊際的影響。租賃領域取得了非常好的成績，現在我將 IRSA 所有開發部分的重任交給資訊長 Jorge Cruces。

Thank you, San Santiago. Good morning, everybody. The project Rambla del Plata is the most important and ambitious real estate project in the history of the city of Buenos Aires. It will change the landscape of the city, bringing life to an undeveloped area and will be an exceptional project due to its size in such boutique location, providing the possibility to the city of Buenos Aires of expanding and recovering its access to the river coast with public parks.

謝謝你，聖地牙哥。大家早安。蘭布拉大道計畫是布宜諾斯艾利斯市歷史上最重要、最雄心勃勃的房地產計畫。它將改變城市的面貌，為未開發的地區帶來生機，並且由於其規模如此之大，又位於如此精緻的位置，因此將是一個特殊的項目，為布宜諾斯艾利斯市提供擴大和恢復其通過公共公園通往河岸的通道的可能性。

Reviewing key figures of the project, 170,000 buildable square meters, 693,000 sellable square meters, 10,000 new houses or homes, an estimated investment of $1.8 billion. Regarding the marketing strategy, originally the project was divided into three stages. Recently, due to the great interest of developers, we decided to expand the first stage of adding by adding 6 more lots to the original 14 lots, which means that stage one now covers. Over 164 square meters. Stage 2 now covers 259 syllable square meters, including [Ias] 14 and F01. Stage 3 covers around 270,000 syllable square meters.

回顧該項目的關鍵數據，可建面積170,000平方米，可銷售面積693,000平方米，10,000套新房或住宅，預計投資18億美元。在行銷策略方面，該專案最初分為三個階段。最近，由於開發商的極大興趣，我們決定擴大第一階段的增建範圍，在原來的14個地塊上再增加6個地塊，這意味著第一階段現在涵蓋了。超過164平方米。階段 2 現在佔地 259 個音節平方米，包括 [Ias] 14 和 F01。第三階段佔地約27萬平方公尺。

Criminalization progress. Since January to date, we sold two parcels, A02 and G01 for $23.4 million and we signed swaps for another nine parcels for $42.7 million. The total operation adds to $166.1 million and represents 95,000 sellable square meters. At the same time, we are moving forward with another 9 swaps, of which 3 are in an advanced stage, altogether regarding the extended stage 1, we estimate sales for $120 million.

刑事化進程。自 1 月至今，我們以 2,340 萬美元的價格出售了 A02 和 G01 兩塊地塊，並以 4,270 萬美元的價格簽署了另外九塊地塊的互換協議。總營運成本為 1.661 億美元，可銷售面積為 95,000 平方米。同時，我們正在推進另外 9 項掉期交易，其中 3 項處於後期階段，就延長的第一階段而言，我們估計銷售額總計為 1.2 億美元。

Construction work in progress. The environmental approval certificate was issued in December, enabling us to start construction in January of the infrastructure, roadworks and public park of the first infrastructure phase A around the Central Bay Area. The infrastructure work will be in the service of 27 plots. We estimate an investment of $27 million. Regarding the construction, as we said in January, we broke ground with the earthmoving works, consolidating the earth mound around the central bay and shortly after the sheep piling work started, which have now reached almost 40% completion. Additionally, recently we have started the roadworks, sewers, and drainages of Phase A. Also, we will be receiving biddings and awarding other contracts in the next weeks plantation buffer forests and recovery of the Central Bay water body.

施工正在進行中。環境審批證書已於12月頒發，使我們能夠在明年1月開始建造中央灣區週邊第一階段基礎設施A期的基礎設施、道路工程和公共公園。基礎設施工程將服務27個地塊。我們預計投資額為 2700 萬美元。關於施工，正如我們在一月份所說的那樣，我們破土動工，加固了中央海灣周圍的土堆，不久之後又開始了羊堆工程，目前已完成近 40％。此外，我們最近已開始 A 階段的道路工程、下水道和排水工程。此外，我們將在接下來的幾週內接受投標並授予其他合同，包括人工緩衝林和中央灣水體的恢復。

Ramblas del Plata. The project is located in the heart of downtown Buenos Aires, a few steps away from the obelisk. Around 7,020 units developed at 13 levels with 8 commercial shops, 35,000 syllable square meters. As of today, the trust has sold 51 units for $7.8 million at an average price above $4000 for each square meter, and there are 23 other operations in the signing process for another $3.5 million. The Trito Diagonal in the city of La Plata. The mall is an open-air shopping center with 22,000 square meters of GLA.

蘭布拉大道。該項目位於布宜諾斯艾利斯市中心，距離方尖碑僅幾步之遙。共 13 層，開發了約 7,020 個單位，其中有 8 個商業店鋪，佔地 35,000 平方米。截至今天，該信託已售出 51 套住房，平均售價 780 萬美元，每平方公尺超過 4,000 美元，另有 23 套住房正在簽約中，總售價 350 萬美元。拉普拉塔市的 Trito Diagonal。該購物中心是一個露天購物中心，擁有 22,000 平方米的 GLA。

Construction works are in progress. We are finishing the sole movement phase by the end of this month. We've started outdoor gas infrastructure work, and we estimate completion by October. Also, we have started with the concrete and steel structure work which will continue throughout the year. Additionally, we will be awarding new contracts in the short term. Main contractor, masonry, dry construction, electric insulation. [Nuevo Kilmes] to the development is in Ezpeleta, southern Great Buenos Aires.

施工工程進行中。我們將在本月底完成唯一運動階段。我們已經開始室外燃氣基礎設施建設工作，預計十月完工。此外，我們已經開始混凝土和鋼結構工程，並將持續全年。此外，我們將在短期內授予新合約。總承包商，砌築，乾法施工，電氣絕緣。 [Nuevo Kilmes] 開發案位於大布宜諾斯艾利斯省南部的埃斯佩萊塔。

The overall project has 313 single family lots and 6 multi-family lots, of which 124 single family lots and 2 multiple multifamily lots are ours. To date, we have sold 38 single family lots for $5.8 million. We expect the infrastructure will be completed during next summer. Now, I will give the floor back to Matias. Thank you. Oh, I'm sorry, regarding the mortgages in Argentina in the city of Buenos Aires. We mentioned this before, but it's, it hasn't, it, it's been having an evolution this last past year as comparing with our GDP we have mortgages at 0.5%. Obviously, this is very low for the world and even for the region.

整個計畫共有313個單戶住宅地塊和6個多戶住宅地塊，其中124個單戶住宅地塊和2個多戶住宅地塊屬於我們。到目前為止，我們已經售出了 38 塊單戶住宅地塊，售價 580 萬美元。我們預計基礎設施將於明年夏天完工。現在，我將發言權交還給馬蒂亞斯。謝謝。哦，很抱歉，關於阿根廷布宜諾斯艾利斯市的抵押貸款。我們之前提到過這一點，但它並沒有，它，它在過去一年裡一直在發生變化，因為與我們的 GDP 相比，我們的抵押貸款率為 0.5%。顯然，這對世界乃至本地區來說都是非常低的。

Now credits lead in Buenos Aires City regarding the transactions in the city of Buenos Aires have went up from 3% to 21% and maybe less than a year. So, this is, has an effect on the prices and the whole market of Buenos Aires. Prices in the neighborhoods are going up. Between 12 and 22% depending on the neighborhood. And not only that, but there's, that's, as I said before, there's much more transactions in Buenos Aires. This has been going on for the last year and we believe That it's going to continue. It's, we believe that actually residential prices in Buenos Aires is going to continue and going up. So this is very important for us, but we have a very big portfolio to develop. So, this is, it's very important for us, the projections of how the price is going to go up in residential, in the residential market. Now we'll give the floor back to Matias. Thank you.

現在，布宜諾斯艾利斯市的信貸佔布宜諾斯艾利斯市交易的比重在不到一年的時間內已經從 3% 上升到了 21%。所以，這對布宜諾斯艾利斯的價格和整個市場產生了影響。週邊地區的物價正在上漲。根據社區不同，介於 12% 至 22% 之間。不僅如此，正如我之前所說，布宜諾斯艾利斯的交易量還要大得多。這種情況已經持續了一年，我們相信這種情況還會持續下去。我們相信，布宜諾斯艾利斯的房價實際上會持續上漲。所以這對我們來說非常重要，但我們還有很多產品組合需要開發。因此，預測住宅市場的價格將如何上漲對我們來說非常重要。現在我們將發言權交還給 Matias。謝謝。

Thank you, Jorge. So, to analyze the results of the quarter, we have to understand what happened with inflation and the evaluation in Argentina. As you can see from the graph, there was an appreciation of the peso, both in the dollar in the official exchange rate and in the blue chip swap. Remember that we value our investment properties, the shopping, the, sorry, the offices and the land bank. At the blue chip swap and the shopping malls at the official exchange rate. So when we have an appreciation of the currency in real terms, that means that we posted losses, about that, properties. That was the main reasons why in December, we posted losses in our net income, the net income line. So, when we see the adjusted the for the rental segment, we see a drop of 4.9% that was triggered mainly by the hotel segment where we see a drop from the previous.

謝謝你，豪爾赫。因此，要分析本季的結果，我們必須了解阿根廷的通貨膨脹和評估。從圖表中可以看出，比索在官方匯率和藍籌掉期中均有所升值。請記住，我們重視我們的投資物業、購物中心、辦公室和土地儲備。以藍籌股掉期和商場的官方匯率計算。因此，當我們的貨幣實際升值時，這意味著我們在房地產方面遭受了損失。這就是我們 12 月淨收入、淨收入線出現虧損的主要原因。因此，當我們看到調整後的租賃部分時，我們發現下降了 4.9%，這主要是由酒店部分引起的，我們發現酒店部分較之前有所下降。

To the 9, almost 9 billion pesos of the current year. Remember that when you have When you have to compare figures that were more related to dollars, that is the case of the hotels and the offices, when we expressed the previous year, by inflation, but considering the appreciation of the peso means that the last year figures appears in peso's term that more inflated like are bigger. In dollar terms, when you divide that price of that level into dollars at the current level, I mean it seems that it's much higher than it was last year. But, so that is the case basically of the office is that here we see a drop of 20%, but when we analyze that number in dollar terms are very similar than the previous year.

到今年為止，已經接近90億比索了。請記住，當你必須比較與美元更相關的數字時，那就是酒店和辦公室的情況，當我們用通貨膨脹來表示前一年時，但考慮到比索的升值意味著去年的數字以比索的形式出現，通貨膨脹的程度越大。以美元計算，當你將該水平的價格除以當前水平的美元時，我的意思是它似乎比去年高得多。但是，辦公室的基本情況是，我們看到下降了 20%，但是當我們以美元計算時，這個數字與前一年非常相似。

And about the shopping malls, we see an increase of almost 10% compared with the previous year. About margins, we see normal numbers a little higher than the previous year in shopping malls, in offices a little lower and the hotels that were affected by the current macro situation in Argentina. About the fair value, last year, since there was a reduction of the GAAP between the official exchange rate and the blue-chip swap, we posted losses, that previously we market the properties in pesos terms at a higher, exchange rate this year. This drop decrease, but it's still still significant of 141 billion pesos. If we analyze that number in dollar terms, we will see that we We generated an appreciation of our shopping malls since there was a reduction in the country risk, the DCF model that we are using, we are increasing the value in dollar terms at the beginning of the year. That number was around $755 million in as of March. That number is $146 million.

至於購物中心，我們發現與前一年相比成長了近 10%。關於利潤率，我們看到購物中心的利潤率比前一年略高，而辦公室的利潤率略低，酒店則受到阿根廷當前宏觀形勢的影響。關於公允價值，去年，由於官方匯率和藍籌掉期之間的 GAAP 有所減少，我們今年公佈了損失，因為之前我們以比索計算的較高匯率銷售這些房產。降幅雖然縮小，但仍高達 1,410 億比索。如果我們以美元來分析這個數字，我們會發現，由於國家風險的降低，我們的購物中心的價值有所升值，而我們使用的 DCF 模型，在年初以美元計算的價值有所增加。截至 3 月份，這一數字約為 7.55 億美元。這個數字是1.46億美元。

The the rest the offices and the land bank remain stable in dollar terms. About the net financial results, we see a positive number. This year, 52 billion pesos, compared with higher number last year, 111 billion pesos that has. Effect than what I mentioned in dollar terms is similar, but when we convert that in pesos adjusted by inflation, that the previous year seems higher than it was. About the income tax, we are, we have a 21 billion pesos loss that is related to the with a gain of the evaluation of the, since we have a loss in the valuation of investment properties, we have to mark a gain in the deferred tax, but with the tax of the year, that number is lower, is 21 billion pesos negative. With all these, drivers, we finished the nine-month period with a gain of 33 billion. Pesos, sorry, 35 million pesos. Compared with a loss of 174 billion pesos last year.

其餘辦公室和土地儲備以美元計算保持穩定。關於淨財務結果，我們看到一個正數。今年為520億比索，與去年的1,110億比索相比有所增加。效果與我提到的以美元計算的效果類似，但當我們將其轉換為根據通貨膨脹進行調整的比索時，前一年似乎比實際水平要高。關於所得稅，我們有 210 億比索的損失，這與評估收益有關，因為我們在投資物業估價中出現了損失，所以我們必須在遞延稅中標記收益，但今年的稅收，這個數字較低，是 210 億比索的負數。憑藉所有這些推動力，我們在前九個月實現了 330 億的收益。比索，抱歉，3500 萬比索。相較之下，去年的虧損為1,740億披索。

About the rental segment in dollar terms, evolution of the last 12-month period, we can see that it's, we posted, we have an EBITDA of $177 million that is higher than the previous two years and probably the record in the last 10 years.

關於以美元計算的租賃部分，過去 12 個月的演變情況，我們可以看到，我們的 EBITDA 為 1.77 億美元，高於前兩年，可能是過去 10 年的最高紀錄。

Well, finally, about the, our debt structure, during March, we decided to tap the international capital market again after there was, the last time was in 2016, that IRSA issue bonds in the international capital markets, so we saw an opportunity to extend the tenor of the debt. Remember that we had a very conservative debt structure with very low leverage. The current numbers is only 1.3 times EBITDA, the rental EBITDA, the current EBITDA and LTV of only 10%. So, a very conservative, ratios, but there used to be more concentrated in the short term because there was no access for the international market that may probably you can extend tenure of the dead.

最後，關於我們的債務結構，3 月份，我們決定再次利用國際資本市場，上次是在 2016 年，IRSA 在國際資本市場發行債券，因此我們看到了延長債務期限的機會。請記住，我們的債務結構非常保守，槓桿率非常低。目前的數字僅為EBITDA的1.3倍，即租金EBITDA，而目前EBITDA和LTV僅為10％。因此，這是一個非常保守的比例，但過去在短期內更加集中，因為沒有進入國際市場的管道，可能可以延長死者的任期。

So, when we saw the window of opportunity that that was open for internal for Argentine corporates again, we decided to tap the market, so we issue a 10-year bond, that expired 33% per year from 2033 to 2035, with an interest rate of 8%. So the transaction was at a yield of 8.5%. So with that. We still maintain very conservative ratios, but now our debt is is in the long term, so we feel much more comfortable with this very conservative debt structure. So with this, we finished the formal presentation. Now we open the line to receive your questions.

因此，當我們看到阿根廷企業再次面臨內部機會之窗時，我們決定開拓市場，所以我們發行了 10 年期債券，從 2033 年到 2035 年每年到期 33%，利率為 8%。因此該交易的收益率為8.5%。就這樣吧。我們仍然保持非常保守的比例，但現在我們的債務是長期的，因此我們對這種非常保守的債務結構感到更加放心。至此，我們的正式演講就結束了。現在我們開通熱線來接收您的提問。

Well, now the time for the session. If you have a question, please use the chat. We will take them in the order we receive them. Here we have some, when, regarding RAMBLAS DEL PLATA, when is the construction of the first buildings of the project expected to begin? When will the urban development works be completed? So, initiation and end of the Project.

好了，現在是會議時間。如果您有任何疑問，請使用聊天。我們將按照收到的順序處理它們。這裡我們有一些關於 RAMBLAS DEL PLATA 的問題，該專案的第一批建築預計何時開始建造？城市發展工程什麼時候完成？因此，專案啟動和結束。

Well, the work should be completed for this first, for stage A. We believe it's going to be completed for next year. Maybe the middle of, maybe by July of next year that it should be completed. And regarding the first buildings are going to start maybe in a year from now or 10 months from now, the developers are making their plans to projects and all the permits from the city hall. So, I believe the buildings are going to be, are going to start developing within the year.

嗯，首先應該完成這個工作，也就是 A 階段的工作。我們相信它將在明年完成。或許到明年中旬，或許到明年七月就能夠完成。第一批建築可能將在一年或十個月後開始動工，開發商正在製定專案計劃並獲得市政廳的所有許可。所以，我相信這些建築將會在今年內開始建造。

There is a question regarding CapEx plan is a company and turning into a more intensive CapEx phase. And then, will the net financial debt to be the ratio race.

有一個問題是關於公司的資本支出計畫是否正在轉向更密集的資本支出階段。那麼，淨金融負債比率是否會有所差距呢？

Yes, we, as during the last 5 years, I was very concentrated in our own capital structure. So we decided not to launch new projects. There was an opportunity to cancel debt, to buy back shares, and to pay high dividends. So we decided not to launch new projects in that environment with more uncertainty. Today we see the future with a very, a lot of optimism, and we believe that we are ready to grow. So, Jorge mentioned some of the projects that we already launched, but regarding the, it's not necessarily true that we will increase the leverage with the current projects that we launch.

是的，就像過去五年一樣，我非常專注於我們自己的資本結構。所以我們決定不再啟動新專案。這是一個取消債務、回購股票和支付高股利的機會。因此，我們決定不在這種不確定性較大的環境下啟動新專案。今天，我們對未來充滿樂觀，並相信我們已經準備好成長。因此，Jorge 提到了我們已經啟動的一些項目，但就此而言，我們不一定會利用我們啟動的當前項目來增加槓桿作用。

Now we, as Jorge mentioned Project, we are executing a strategy where IRSA won't invest money so developers will make the investment, and IRSA will receive the square meters. So we are developing our most ambitious plan, but in a way that we want to invest money, at least in this first stage, probably in the future, you will see developing some of the buildings, but at the beginning, to give a speed to the projects we are doing through developers. The shopping mall of Lalata is not a big investment, it's an investment of around 40 to $50 million that will be deployed during the next 2 to 3 years. So that means that it's $150 million per year, so it's not significant for our cash generation, so.

現在，正如 Jorge 所提到的項目，我們正在執行一項策略，即 IRSA 不會投資資金，因此開發商將進行投資，而 IRSA 將獲得平方公尺。因此，我們正在製定最雄心勃勃的計劃，但我們希望投入資金，至少在第一階段，可能在未來，你會看到一些建築物的開發，但在開始階段，我們會透過開發商加快我們正在進行的項目的速度。Lalata購物中心的投資不大，投資額約4,000萬至5,000萬美元，將在未來2至3年內投入使用。這意味著每年需要 1.5 億美元，所以對我們的現金產生來說並不重要。

And probably we will launch some other projects but are not so big. So probably what we are looking is for opportunities to acquire more things. So, if we execute some of, we find opportunities, maybe we will deploy. Part of the use of the money from our bond or the bond that we issue to buy new things. So in that case, we can increase the leverage, but remember that the current ratio is the lowest, probably the lowest ever for years is 1.3 times 10%.

我們可能還會啟動一些其他項目，但規模不會那麼大。所以我們可能正在尋找獲得更多東西的機會。因此，如果我們執行其中的一些，我們發現機會，也許我們就會部署。我們債券或發行債券的部分資金用途是購買新東西。因此在這種情況下，我們可以增加槓桿，但請記住，流動比率是最低的，可能是多年來的最低水平，即 1.3 倍 10%。

LTV for a real estate company that is nothing, probably won't be very efficient in terms of our capital structure. So probably we will TRY to increase a little the leverage, so but basically, we will control that through the CapEx and dividend payments, so that will be the trigger of our debt to go up.

對於房地產公司來說，LTV 不算什麼，從我們的資本結構來看可能不會非常有效。因此，我們可能會嘗試稍微增加槓桿率，但基本上，我們將透過資本支出和股息支付來控制槓桿率，因此這將成為我們債務上升的觸發因素。

Yeah, there are some questions here regarding CapEx investments. I think you have already answered. Here's an additional in that direction. Could you elaborate on the structuring of the agreements with developers for Ramla del Plata, and what is the upside in proceeds that ISA keeps. Probably explain a little bit the swap, how it works, in terms of percentage and what IRSA will receive in the future and this upside that IRSA keeps doing this way.

是的，這裡有一些關於資本支出投資的問題。我想你已經回答了。這是關於這個方向的補充。您能否詳細說明與拉姆拉德普拉塔開發商達成的協議的結構，以及 ISA 保留的收益優勢是什麼。可能要稍微解釋一下這種掉期，它是如何運作的，從百分比的角度來說，以及 IRSA 未來將獲得什麼，以及 IRSA 繼續這樣做的好處。

Through the swaps, we get, we give the land, we give the lot, and we agree with the developers in a percentage. A percentage nowadays is quite low because we're just starting, so we're starting at maybe 25, 26%, and in the near future, we're going to be close to 30%, but then again, it's a whole new development, a whole new neighborhood starting by the bay. So, we will be receiving those square meters maybe in 23 years, 3 years from now. And from now until then, the market is going to be, it's going to, it's going up, as I said before, the residential market in the city of Buenos Aires, but also because the neighborhood is, it's starting, it's Month by month it's going to be more expensive.

透過互換，我們得到土地，我們給予地段，並與開發商達成百分比協議。現在的比例相當低，因為我們才剛起步，所以我們的起步比例可能是 25% 或 26%，在不久的將來，我們將接近 30%，但話又說回來，這是一個全新的發展項目，一個沿著海灣開始的全新社區。所以，我們大概會在 23 年後，也就是 3 年後才收到這些平方公尺。從現在到那時，市場將會，將會，將會上升，正如我之前所說的，布宜諾斯艾利斯市的住宅市場，而且因為社區的開始，它的價格會逐月上漲。

So, from here until we receive the 25% of the square meters 3 years from now, it's going to be, it's, there's going to be more value on each square meters. We don't need the money today. As I said before, we already sold, 22 plots, so we have the money more than enough for the infrastructure and for all the market needs. So, in the meantime, we, we're going to be with the developers, developing through the developers, and later, we're going to be developing ourselves with partners or by ourselves. Don't forget in Argentina, we have free cells, so it's so usually you don't need that much money to develop. So, that's the way it works in Argentina, that's the way we're doing it, and it's just the first stage, so there's a lot to be done in the future.

因此，從現在開始直到 3 年後我們收到 25% 的平方米，每平方米的價值都會越來越高。我們今天不需要錢。正如我之前所說，我們已經售出了 22 塊土地，因此我們有足夠的資金來建造基礎設施並滿足所有市場需求。因此，同時，我們將與開發人員合作，透過開發人員進行開發，之後，我們將與合作夥伴一起或自行開發。別忘了在阿根廷，我們有空閒的細胞，所以通常不需要那麼多錢來開發。這就是阿根廷的運作方式，也是我們正在做的方式，這只是第一階段，未來還有很多工作要做。

Okay. Here is that there are some, many questions regarding dividends policy, going forward, and, if you, we plan to do some new shares repurchase program, how that will move forward in the coming.

好的。這裡有很多關於股利政策的問題，展望未來，如果我們計劃做一些新的股票回購計劃，那麼未來將如何推進。

Months. Okay, so the, as you can, you saw from the last year we paid high dividends during the last 4 years, 3 years with a dividend yield of around 15%, almost 15% during the last 3 years. Today, the main limitation that we have are our accounting results are not the liquidity situation. We feel very comfortable with our debt structure and liquidity, so it's not a problem, but there is a limitation about the accumulated results that we have to have positive numbers to pay dividends and to buy back shares.

幾個月。好的，正如您所看到的，從去年開始我們支付了高額股息，過去 4 年，有 3 年股息收益率約為 15%，過去 3 年接近 15%。今天，我們的主要限制是我們的會計結果而不是流動性狀況。我們對我們的債務結構和流動性感到非常滿意，所以這不是問題，但累積的結果有一個限制，那就是我們必須有正數才能支付股利和回購股票。

So, we just posted this gain of 33 billion pesos, so that give us a little room. So, we will see, we will wait to see our final numbers in June and then decide the dividend payment as always, our shareholders meeting is around October. So, during that month, we will decide the dividend payment, but yes, we don't have a fixed dividend policy, but our behaviors is that was that every time that we can pay dividends, we pay dividends and with this debt structure, and low leverage, definitely, we will keep paying dividends in the future.

因此，我們剛剛公佈了 330 億比索的收益，這給了我們一點空間。所以，我們會看到，我們將等到 6 月看到最終數字，然後像往常一樣決定股息支付，我們的股東大會將在 10 月左右舉行。因此，在該月，我們將決定股息支付，但是是的，我們沒有固定的股息政策，但我們的行為是，每當我們可以支付股息時，我們就會支付股息，並且由於這種債務結構和低槓桿率，我們肯定會在未來繼續支付股息。

What is a blended yield of your shopping center's portfolio based on the latest valuation?

根據最新估值，您的購物中心投資組合的混合收益率是多少？

Today is at $1 billion so considering like approximate 7 times a bid that this is like a 15% cap rate. The shopping centers are generating well in terms of a bid $158 million.I tell you this is the only driver in our books that it's more difficult to value since you don't have market transactions, no. In the case of the offices and in the case of the land bank, there are plenty of operations in the market that you can use as as comparable with your own portfolio.

如今的價格是 10 億美元，因此考慮到大約 7 倍的出價，這相當於 15% 的資本化率。購物中心的出價為 1.58 億美元，獲利情況良好。我告訴你，這是我們書中唯一的驅動因素，由於沒有市場交易，因此估值更加困難。就辦公室和土地儲備而言，市場上有大量的業務可以與您自己的投資組合進行比較。

So that part is much easier to value. In the shopping since we are performing at DCF, the way that we value the property is that we engage a third party appraisal. In this case, we are using new work to value the properties. They are performing a DCF model. And in the DCF you have to use the parameters of the market also, so the country risk or the. The discount rate today that use a financial rate is much higher than what the participants in the market used to buy real estate. In fact, if you value at the DCF model an office where the participants pay 6% cap rate, 7% cap, 5% cap rate. Valuation should be much lower, but in the market, you can sell properties easily at a much lower cap rate than the, than using a DCF one. What I'm trying to say is that the most valuation is still very conservative, but it's our best that we can do in to approach for value.

因此這部分的價值就更容易評估。由於我們在 DCF 進行購物，因此我們對房產進行估價的方式是聘請第三方評估。在這種情況下，我們正在使用新工作來評估財產。他們正在執行 DCF 模型。在 DCF 中，您還必須使用市場參數，即國家風險或。今天採用金融利率的折現率比市場參與者過去購買房地產的折現率高出許多。事實上，如果你按照 DCF 模型對辦公室進行估值，參與者支付的資本化率分別為 6%、7% 和 5%。估值應該低得多，但在市場上，您可以以比使用 DCF 更低的資本化率輕鬆出售房產。我想說的是，大多數估值仍然非常保守，但這是我們能盡力實現的價值方法。

A one more is there any clause that allows it? I imagine that it's regarding RAMBLAS or any other swap. Is there any clause that allows ISA to retake a property if construction of the building has stops or fails to reach a timeline? When do you effectively transfer the land?

另外有沒有條款允許這樣做？我想像它與 RAMBLAS 或任何其他交換有關。如果建築物的建造停止或未能按時完成，是否有任何條款允許 ISA 收回房產？什麼時候才能真正實現土地流轉？

Yes, actually there is. If the developer doesn't. Doesn't isn't able to develop for any reason, even if it has problems with city permits or whatever problem the developer has, the land should go back to the, to, it goes back to us. Hopefully it never happened to us in the in the past. Hopefully it's not going to happen to us in Rams.

是的，確實有。如果開發人員不這樣做。如果因為任何原因而無法開發，即使是市政許可證有問題或開發商遇到任何問題，土地也應該歸還給我們。希望我們過去從未遇過這樣的事。希望這種事不要發生在我們公羊隊身上。

And also, we maintain a mortgage on the land.

而且，我們還持有這塊土地的抵押權。

We maintain a mortgage on the land, but for it to get back to us, a lot of things has happened. As I said before, it's written that way. It never happened. We never had that case scenario in the, in the past, so hopefully it's not going to happen in the future.

我們保留了土地的抵押權，但為了拿回土地，我們經歷了很多事情。正如我之前所說，它就是這樣寫的。這從未發生過。我們過去從未遇到過這種情況，所以希望將來也不會發生這種情況。

One question. Well, I will some regarding non-core assets, what are your plans for the 30% stake in Ban Pode Cario and also the hotels division that is a little bit smaller now? Are there are any plans to sell the division into a rising market?

一個問題。好吧，我想問一些關於非核心資產的問題，您對 Ban Pode Cario 的 30% 股份以及現在規模稍小的酒店部門有什麼計劃？是否有計劃將該部門出售給新興市場？

About [Bancodecaio], we are happy with the performance of the bank during the last year, so we are, we started to receive dividends from [Banco Bodecaio]. But this year we will receive around $15 million. Last year was around $12 million. So, there's generate cash for the first time in many years, so we are happy with the performance. The bank has plans to increase, their capital, in order to expand their business. So, we are happy with the evolution of the strategy of the bank, and we support the strategy. So, we hopefully see the banks growing in the future and about the hotel Jorge.

關於[Bancodecaio]，我們對銀行去年的表現感到滿意，因此，我們開始從[博德卡約銀行]。但今年我們將獲得約 1500 萬美元。去年約 1200 萬美元。因此，多年來我們第一次產生了現金，因此我們對業績感到滿意。該銀行計劃增加資本，以擴大業務。因此，我們對銀行策略的演變感到滿意，並且我們支持該策略。因此，我們希望看到銀行和 Jorge 酒店在未來不斷發展。

Well, as mentioned in the question, we, it hasn't grown since. Since a long time, we bought the hotels in 1997-1998 and hasn't grown since. So yes, we're not, we're not planning and growing anymore. And yes, if we can, if we can sell one of our hotels in the city of Buenos Aires, we will, we will TRY to sell it. It's, as you said, it's a rising market. Argentina is doing much better. There's going to be more institutional investors. So yes, we might be, we might try to sell one of our cities, one of the cities we have in Buenos Aires.

嗯，正如問題中提到的，從那時起它就沒有增長過。很久以來，我們在 1997-1998 年購買了這些酒店，從那時起就沒有再擴張過。是的，我們不再計劃和發展了。是的，如果我們可以出售我們在布宜諾斯艾利斯市的一家酒店，我們會盡力出售它。正如您所說，這是一個正在崛起的市場。阿根廷的表現要好得多。將會有更多的機構投資者。所以是的，我們可能會嘗試出售我們的一座城市，即布宜諾斯艾利斯的一座城市。

But I will go with the last 12 in one regarding on the financial front. So, you are canceling the $100 million in loan that you have in the short term this year. This is one and the other one, if there are plans to issue more debt in the international market, you expect the conditions to improve and help reduce, cost of financing for IRSA and other corporates in Argentina.

但我將在財務方面討論最後 12 個問題。所以，您要取消今年短期內的 1 億美元貸款。這是一方面，另一方面，如果有計劃在國際市場上發行更多債務，你預計條件會改善，並有助於降低 IRSA 和阿根廷其他企業的融資成本。

No, for, about plans to issue more debt, no, we don't have needs to raise more. More cash, regarding the cancellation of $100 million debt. Yes, we mentioned that part of the use of proceeds of the new one was to cancel the existing debt. So, in fact, from the $300 million that we raised $58 million were in exchange of the previous bond, so that is not imply new cash for IRSA. So, from the remaining $242 million at the net of the discount price that we issue and cost of the transaction. We receive around 231 to $232 million. So part of that will go to cancel the existing debt and the remaining will go to finance opportunities that can appear as an M&A transaction or to finance the existing developments.

不，關於發行更多債務的計劃，不，我們不需要籌集更多資金。更多現金，用於取消 1 億美元的債務。是的，我們提到新債券的部分收益用途是取消現有債務。因此，事實上，在我們籌集的 3 億美元中，有 5,800 萬美元是用之前的債券來交換的，所以這並不意味著 IRSA 會獲得新的現金。因此，從我們發行的折扣價和交易成本的淨額中扣除剩餘的 2.42 億美元。我們收到約 2.31 億至 2.32 億美元。因此，其中一部分將用於取消現有債務，其餘部分將用於融資併購交易或現有開發案的融資機會。

Last question, has the company considered investing into logistics?

最後一個問題，公司是否考慮過投資物流？

Well, for some time, now we, yes, we are planning or analyzing the possibility to get into that business. We think it's a great match for us, having been in office so many years and we think we have a great strength to get into that business. That business is growing, it's growing fast. So yes, we are considering to get into the, into [Loitita]. We're analyzing the way to get in and we have been for some time now.

嗯，一段時間以來，是的，我們正在計劃或分析進入該行業的可能性。我們認為這對我們來說是一次絕佳的匹配，我們已經執政這麼多年了，我們認為我們有足夠的實力進入這個行業。該業務正在成長，而且成長迅速。是的，我們正在考慮進入[洛伊蒂塔]。我們正在分析進入的方式，並且已經進行了一段時間了。

Well, with this, we like to have a lot of people attending the webinar, good times for Argentina, and a lot of questions. That is good. We appreciate. I will now turn the call to Mattias for his closing remarks.

好吧，有了這個，我們很高興有很多人參加網路研討會，這對阿根廷來說是一段美好的時光，同時也有很多問題。那很好。我們深表感謝。現在請馬蒂亞斯致閉幕詞。

Thank you very much for your participation. So, we are very positive about the future for IRSA. We believe that is, with the normalization of the economy and the access for trade, the real estate industry has a lot to grow. It appears that we are very well positioned to take advantage of the new cycle with plenty of new projects to launch. Also, our main segment, the shopping malls start to show positive numbers again compared with previous year with the highest [Evida] levels for many years, very healthy position that will allow us to take advantage of market opportunities. So, we hope to see a new cycle for IRSA with a lot of new projects to come. So, thank you very much for your participation and hope to see you in the next quarter.

非常感謝您的參與。因此，我們對 IRSA 的未來非常樂觀。我們認為，隨著經濟的正常化和貿易的開放，房地產行業仍有很大的發展空間。看來我們已經準備好利用新周期，推出大量新項目。此外，我們的主要業務部門——購物中心與前一年相比再次呈現正增長，達到了多年來的最高水平，這種非常健康的狀態使我們能夠抓住市場機會。因此，我們希望看到 IRSA 進入新週期並推出許多新專案。因此，非常感謝您的參與，希望在下個季度見到您。