IRSA Inversiones y Representaciones SA (IRS) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

So good morning, everybody. Today, we will review the results of our 9-month period of our fiscal year 2024. This was a special quarter, with a big change on the political side, with the assumption of the new administration, a big change also on the economic side, with the first measures of the new administration that tend to stabilize the economy, reduce the deficit, reduce the inflation.

大家早安。今天，我們將回顧 2024 財年 9 個月期間的表現。這是一個特殊的季度，政治方面發生了重大變化，隨著新政府的上台，經濟方面也發生了重大變化，新政府的第一批措施傾向於穩定經濟，減少赤字，減少通貨膨脹。

So far, there were good results. This is too early to see results on our industry, but we have a strong hope in the new administration and to obtain and achieve a stabilization of the economy that will be very good for our industry.

到目前為止，已經取得了良好的成果。現在要看到我們行業的成果還為時過早，但我們對新政府抱有強烈希望，希望能夠實現經濟穩定，這對我們行業非常有利。

When we review the results of the 9-month period, we will see a loss on the net income of around ARS 111 billion, that is explained mainly with a noncash effect on the fair value of investment properties that I will explain later. Also, we see good results when we see the adjusted EBITDA, with a 9% increase against the same period of the last year. During the quarter, there was a slowdown in consumption and our EBITDA, mainly in the malls, decrease compared with the same period of the last year, that also we will review later.

當我們回顧這 9 個月期間的業績時，我們將看到淨利潤損失約 1,110 億盧比，這主要是由於對投資物業公允價值的非現金影響，我將在稍後解釋。此外，當我們看到調整後的 EBITDA 時，我們看到了良好的結果，與去年同期相比成長了 9%。本季度，消費放緩，我們的 EBITDA（主要是商場）與去年同期相比有所下降，我們稍後也會對此進行回顧。

Regarding tenant sales, there was a slowdown in consumption, so we will see a drop. Occupancy are at very good levels, both in malls and in offices.

就租戶銷售而言，消費放緩，因此我們會看到下降。無論是商場還是辦公室，入住率都非常高。

On the financial side, we decided to launch a new buyback program. So so far, we acquired around 1.7% of our own stock. And also 10 days ago, we decided to pay a new dividend that we will start the distribution tomorrow for our local shareholders. The dividend is for ARS 55 billion.

在財務方面，我們決定啟動新的回購計畫。到目前為止，我們收購了約 1.7% 的自有股票。同樣在10天前，我們決定支付新的股息，明天開始為當地股東分配。股利為 550 億阿根廷比索。

So now I will turn the call with Santiago Donato, our IRO.

現在我將轉給我們的 IRO 聖地亞哥·多納托 (Santiago Donato)。

Thank you, Matias. Well, here, we can see the shopping malls operating figures, our tenant sales on the quarter and on the accumulated 9-month period.

謝謝你，馬蒂亞斯。在這裡，我們可以看到購物中心的營業數據、本季的租戶銷售額以及累積 9 個月的銷售額。

On the quarter, as Matias mentioned, we have seen a decrease, a drop of 18.5%. This is the third quarter of 2024 compared to the third quarter of 2023, due to the acceleration of inflation and its impact on consumption during the third quarter of the fiscal year 2024. Occupancy remained very, very high at levels of 98% in our malls. And when we look at the accumulated sales, we are up almost 1% in the year compared to the same period of last year.

正如 Matias 所提到的，本季我們看到了下降，下降了 18.5%。這是與2023年第三季相比的2024年第三季度，由於2024財年第三季通膨加速及其對消費的影響。我們購物中心的入住率仍然非常非常高，達到 98%。當我們查看累計銷售額時，我們今年比去年同期成長了近 1%。

So in the 9-month period, we cover inflation. We're a little bit above inflation because until December, the first semester of this fiscal year, was really good. Sales were up like 10% in real terms.

因此，在 9 個月期間，我們涵蓋了通貨膨脹。我們的通膨率略高於通膨率，因為直到 12 月（本財年第一季）之前，情況確實不錯。以實際價值計算，銷售額增加了約 10%。

When we see the breakdown by type of business, we see that Apparel is in the average, 19% down on the quarter. Services and miscellaneous are a little bit up at (inaudible) on the distribution. And then restaurant, home and electronics and entertainment are a little bit even at levels of 25% to 30% decrease on the quarter.

當我們查看按業務類型細分時，我們發現服裝行業處於平均水平，本季下降了 19%。服務和雜項在分佈上略有上升（聽不清楚）。然後，餐廳、家居、電子產品和娛樂產業的銷售額較本季下降了 25% 至 30%。

The next quarter is going to be a challenge as well to sustain tenant sales and activity and visitor flows in the malls. But we trust that in fiscal year 2025, that starts in July '25, activity in the malls should recover in line with the recomposition of salaries and the economic activity.

下一季維持購物中心的租戶銷售、活動和客流也將是一項挑戰。但我們相信，從 25 年 7 月開始的 2025 財年，購物中心的活動應該會隨著工資和經濟活動的重組而復甦。

Regarding the Office segment, after selling assets during the last 3, 4 years, we currently manage about 59,000 square meters, mostly A+ and A buildings, that when you see occupancy remains very high at levels of 93%. This is above the average of the industry in Buenos Aires, while the rest remains stable at levels of $26 per square meter per month.

至於辦公室業務，在過去三、四年出售資產後，我們目前管理約59,000平方米，主要是A+和A樓，入住率仍然很高，達到93%的水準。這高於布宜諾斯艾利斯行業的平均水平，而其餘地區則穩定在每月每平方米 26 美元的水平。

And finally, on the third Rental segment on the hotels. The 3 hotels have shown very good performance during the quarter, reaching on average almost 69% occupancy and a rate per room of almost $260. Buenos Aires hotels, the ones that we own here in Buenos Aires, the Libertador and the InterContinental, recover strongly in occupancy and rates due to the recovery of the corporate events and the increase of tourism.

最後，關於酒店的第三個租賃部分。這 3 家飯店在本季表現非常出色，平均入住率接近 69%，每間客房的價格接近 260 美元。由於企業活動的恢復和旅遊業的增長，我們在布宜諾斯艾利斯擁有的解放者酒店和洲際酒店的入住率和房價強勁復甦。

And Llao Llao that reached the peak of occupancy of 83% last year, now it's still in very high levels, at levels of 76% occupancy, and it's charging rates of -- are approximately $470 per room.

Llao Llao 去年的入住率達到了 83% 的峰值，現在仍處於非常高的水平，入住率為 76%，其收費標準約為每間客房 470 美元。

So despite the shopping centers that have showed a drop this quarter, in general terms, the Rental segment is doing very well and closing the year in a good -- with a good performance.

因此，儘管購物中心本季出現下滑，但總體而言，租賃業務表現良好，並以良好的業績結束了今年的業績。

I will now turn to Jorge Cruces. Jorge is the CIO of the company, to show the status of the upcoming projects of the company.

我現在請豪爾赫·克魯塞斯發言。Jorge是公司的CIO，展示公司即將進行的專案的狀況。

Thank you, Santiago. Good morning, everybody.

謝謝你，聖地牙哥。大家早安。

Costa Urbana. Regarding the project for the infrastructures, we have completed the submittal of all additional information and documents requested by City Hall, for granting the approval of the project for the infrastructures and road works.

科斯塔厄巴納。關於基礎設施項目，我們已完成市政廳要求的所有附加資訊和文件的提交，以批准基礎設施和道路工程項目。

In respect of public park project, our design team is working with a City Hall on the architectural and landscape of the public park on all three phases.

在公園專案方面，我們的設計團隊正在與市政廳合作，對公園三期的建築和景觀進行設計。

As for the environmental approval, having completed the submittal of all assessments requested by environmental authorities, we expect environmental public hearing to be held in June or July.

至於環境審批，在完成環保部門要求的所有評估提交後，我們預計環境聽證會將於六月或七月舉行。

La Plata development project. The land is a huge block of about 8 hectares in the north down of La Plata City. In their surroundings, there's two supermarkets and a home center, becoming by far the most important supply center of the city. It's a mixed-use master plan. The huge block has been subdivided into 18 lots, 2 of them becoming public squares to be transferred to the city, the largest one for shopping center, and the other plots for developing residential and commercial buildings.

拉普拉塔開發案。該土地位於拉普拉塔市北部，是一塊面積約8公頃的巨大土地。週邊有兩家超市和一個家居中心，成為目前該市最重要的供應中心。這是一個混合用途的總體規劃。這個巨大的地塊被細分為18塊地塊，其中2塊地塊成為將轉移到城市的公共廣場，最大的一塊地塊用於購物中心，其他地塊用於開發住宅和商業建築。

The shopping center will be a 2-level open air and will have 22,000 square meters of gross leasable area and 720 parking spaces. The residential and commercial buildings will have approximately 78,000 salable square meters.

該購物中心為兩層露天購物中心，可出租總面積達22,000平方米，並設有720個停車位。住宅和商業建築的可售面積約為78,000平方米。

Today's status. The Town Council has approved the project and issued the construction permit. In April, [industrial] survey plan and proposal for creating the new plot was filed and adjusted, enabling the lots to be sold. Project and bidding documents already completed and ready for tender process.

今天的狀態。鎮議會已批准該項目並頒發了施工許可證。4月，[工業]勘察計劃和創建新地塊的建議已提交並調整，使該地塊得以出售。項目和招標文件已完成並準備進行招標。

Del Plata Building. Late December, Banco Hipotecario, in its capacity as owner and truster of the land, transferred the fiduciary domain of the property in favor of TMF Trust Company as trustee. In January, City Hall approved the construction license for the project, allowing us to start the construction works.

德爾普拉塔大廈。12 月底，Banco Hipotecario 以土地所有者和信託人的身份，將財產的信託權轉讓給作為受託人的 TMF Trust Company。一月份，市政府批准了該項目的施工許可證，允許我們開始施工。

The first meeting of the Trust Executive Committee has been held in March and authorities were designated. And most importantly, a closure regarding the final list of money [trusters] and the percentage of participation of the investment. Nowadays, the architects are working on the final technical [documentation], which is expected to be finished by June. In the meantime, we are signing the contract with the construction manager and beginning some minor demolitions.

信託執行委員會第一次會議已於3月召開，並指定了權限。最重要的是，關於最終的資金[信託人]名單和投資參與百分比的結束。目前，架構師正在製定最終的技術[文件]，預計六月完成。同時，我們正在與施工經理簽訂合同，並開始一些小規模的拆除工作。

Big numbers of the development. Total surface area of 60,000 square meters; salable square meters, 35,000; 15 floors and 4 parking floors in the basements; 721 apartments; 8 shops; 224 parking lots.

大量的開發。總面積6萬平方公尺；可銷售平方米35,000；地下15層，地下4層停車位； 721 間公寓； 8家商店； 224個停車場。

Last but not least, these last couple of weeks, there's been a game changer. Mortgages. Just in the last couple of weeks, some banks -- actually Banco Hipotecario was the first bank to announce it, but now there's been like five banks announcing that they're going to start with mortgages these next couple of months.

最後但並非最不重要的一點是，在過去幾週，遊戲規則發生了變化。抵押貸款。就在過去幾週，一些銀行——實際上 Banco Hipotecario 是第一家宣布這一消息的銀行，但現在已有大約五家銀行宣布他們將在接下來的幾個月內開始提供抵押貸款。

This is a game changer for us, not only because of our stake of 30% in Banco Hipotecario, but it's a game changer regarding all our projects that we have in our portfolio. We're really anxious to see how this plays out, but we're confident that it's going to be very important for the next 2 or 3 years for the company.

這對我們來說是一個遊戲規則改變者，不僅因為我們持有 Banco Hipotecario 30% 的股份，而且對於我們投資組合中的所有項目來說，這也是一個遊戲規則改變者。我們真的很急切地想知道這將如何發揮作用，但我們相信這對公司未來兩三年將非常重要。

Now I'll give back the floor to Matias, our CFO.

現在我將請我們的財務長馬蒂亞斯發言。

Thank you, Jorge. And to reinforce the idea of how the mortgage industry can change real estate, we have to mention that Argentina is an economy with no leverage. Mortgages to GDP in Argentina is only 0.3%. When you compare that with our neighbor countries, that number is much, much higher. So we believe that if this -- the economy stabilize and we will start to have this kind of offer on the mortgage side, this will be a very big change in -- for our real estate industry.

謝謝你，豪爾赫。為了強化抵押貸款產業如何改變房地產的想法，我們必須提到阿根廷是一個沒有槓桿的經濟體。阿根廷抵押貸款佔GDP的比例僅0.3%。當你與我們的鄰國相比時，這個數字要高得多。因此，我們相信，如果經濟穩定下來，我們將開始在抵押貸款方面提供此類優惠，這對我們的房地產行業來說將是一個非常大的變化。

So to enter in the financial results, I would like to spend 30 seconds saying what happened with the main variables, the FX and inflation. As you remember, there was a big devaluation in December. We discussed that in the last conference call. The official FX went from ARS 350 to ARS 800. And then during this quarter, the FX remain stable.

因此，為了輸入財務結果，我想花 30 秒的時間來說明主要變數、外匯和通貨膨脹的情況。如您所知，12 月份貨幣大幅貶值。我們在上次電話會議中討論了這一點。官方匯率從 ARS 350 變成 ARS800。然後在本季度，外匯保持穩定。

You know that the government is implementing a crawling peg of 2% per month, and they maintained that during the last 3 months and also during April. So that generates volatility in our results. We have to post all the numbers in pesos terms adjusted by inflation. So this kind of movement -- big movements really generate volatility in the results.

你知道政府正在實施每月 2% 的爬行掛鉤，他們在過去 3 個月和 4 月都維持這項政策。因此，這會導致我們的結果波動。我們必須以經過通貨膨脹調整的比索計算所有數字。所以這種大的變動確實會導致結果的波動。

You know that on the asset side, we value the malls at the official exchange rate, at fair value at the official exchange rate, and then in the land bank and office portfolio, we are valuing at the blue-chip-swap at the dollar MEP. That also was stable during the quarter. The last quarter, we finished with [995] and now with [117].

你知道，在資產方面，我們以官方匯率、以官方匯率的公允價值對購物中心進行估值，然後在土地儲備和辦公室投資組合中，我們以美元的藍籌互換估值歐洲議會議員。本季這數字也保持穩定。上個季度，我們完成了 [995]，現在[117]。

So when we see numbers adjusted by inflation, you will see that on the bottom left, the official exchange rate that closed at ARS 858 equivalent in December was [1,225]. And then the blue-chip-swap was [1,800] in the third quarter, and we finished at ARS 1,017 in March. So we will see the impact on that in the following pages.

因此，當我們看到根據通貨膨脹調整的數字時，您會在左下角看到，12 月份收盤時相當於 858 盧比的官方匯率是[1,225]。第三季的藍籌掉期為 [1,800]，3 月的收盤價為 1,017 阿根廷比索。因此，我們將在接下來的幾頁中看到對此的影響。

First, on the adjusted EBITDA. We still have good numbers. The adjusted EBITDA increased by 6%, the Rental EBITDA by 12%. So remember that we finished December with better numbers. And then in this last 3 months period, for instance, the Mall EBITDA decreased by 18% compared with the same period of the last year. This is when we compare numbers in pesos term. Probably going forward, we won't see results in pesos term, but if the dollars remain stable, maybe we'll see good numbers in dollar terms, but lower numbers in pesos terms.

首先，關於調整後的 EBITDA。我們仍然有很好的數字。調整後 EBITDA 成長 6%，租賃 EBITDA 成長 12%。因此請記住，我們在 12 月結束時取得了更好的數據。例如，在最近 3 個月期間，購物中心 EBITDA 與去年同期相比下降了 18%。這是我們比較以比索計算的數字時的情況。展望未來，我們可能不會看到以比索計算的結果，但如果美元保持穩定，也許我們會看到以美元計算的良好數字，但以比索計算的數字較低。

When we see the margins, margins remain stable, shopping malls at levels of 76%, offices at 81% and hotels at 40%.

當我們看到利潤率時，我們發現利潤率保持穩定，購物中心為 76%，辦公室為 81%，飯店為 40%。

So in the following page, so leave it aside, the effect of the change in the fair value numbers were good. Operating income increasing by 40%. But then when we see the loss generated by the change value in the investment properties, there was an important loss of ARS 385 billion. So that basically, the effect is what I described at the beginning, that is the effect of the FX and the inflation.

因此，在接下來的頁面中，拋開它不談，公允價值數字變化的效果是好的。營業收入成長40%。但當我們看到投資物業價值變化所產生的損失時，出現了3,850億阿根廷比索的重大損失。所以基本上，效果就是我在一開始所描述的，也就是外匯和通貨膨脹的效果。

If we see the numbers in dollar terms, our malls remain at the same value. The office is at the same value and the land bank at the same value. So no major changes. It's only the effect of posting the results in pesos term.

如果我們以美元計算這些數字，我們的購物中心仍保持相同的價值。辦公室的價值相同，土地儲備的價值相同。所以沒有太大的改變。這只是以比索形式發布結果的效果。

The next page, we see the net financial results. Here, we have good numbers. That was an important result from the fair value of our assets. There was the liquidity invested in securities, that was a good result. And also the impact of the devaluation that you see a gain in the 9-month period of ARS 81 billion, that is the appreciation of the pesos against the devaluation.

下一頁，我們看到淨財務結果。在這裡，我們有很好的數字。這是我們資產公允價值的重要結果。將流動性投資於證券，這是一個很好的結果。還有貶值的影響，您會看到在 9 個月期間獲得了 810 億阿根廷比索的收益，即比索相對於貶值的升值。

Regarding the income tax, here, we post again, it's weird to see a gain in the income tax, but this is the gain related to every time that we post a loss in the fair value of the [member] properties, we post again in the deferred tax. And if we post a gain, we will post a loss on the deferred tax that we -- good pay if we sell the property.

關於所得稅，在這裡，我們再次發布，看到所得稅的收益很奇怪，但這是與每次我們發布[會員]財產的公允價值損失相關的收益，我們再次發佈在遞延稅項中。如果我們公佈收益，我們將公佈遞延稅項的損失，如果我們出售房產，我們將獲得良好的報酬。

Something important to mention is that probably during the last years, we consume the tax credit that we had. So probably starting this year, we will start to pay income tax again.

值得一提的是，可能在過去幾年中，我們消耗了我們擁有的稅收抵免。所以可能從今年開始，我們將再次開始繳納所得稅。

So finally, the net results, as I mentioned at the beginning, there was a loss of ARS 111 billion compared with a gain last year of ARS 123 billion.

最後，正如我在開頭提到的，最終的淨結果是，與去年 1,230 億盧比的收益相比，損失了 1,110 億盧比。

Moving to the next page, the evolution of our Rental EBITDA in dollar terms. During the last year, we see very good numbers. The last 12 months in dollar terms was $161 million, is a slight decrease compared with the previous year, but a very important increase when we compare with pre-pandemic levels.

翻到下一頁，我們以美元計算的租金 EBITDA 的演變。去年，我們看到了非常好的數字。過去 12 個月以美元計算為 1.61 億美元，與前一年相比略有下降，但與大流行前的水平相比，這是一個非常重要的增長。

Regarding our debt, there was two new issuances of -- in the local capital market during the quarter. We issued around $52 million in true tranches, one in dollar terms at 7% coupon and the other at BADLAR in pesos at BADLAR Class 1 in -- that we raised is around ARS 31 billion. Total gross debt today is around 357 as of this, as of March, sorry, it's $357 million and is diversified in the following years and not concentrated in any specific year.

關於我們的債務，本季在當地資本市場有兩次新發行。我們以真實份額發行了約 5,200 萬美元，其中一筆以美元計價，票面利率為 7%，另一筆以 BADLAR 比索以 BADLAR 1 級發行——我們籌集了約 310 億阿根廷比索。截至目前，總債務總額約為 357 美元，截至 3 月份，抱歉，債務總額為 3.57 億美元，並在接下來的幾年中進行多元化投資，而不是集中在任何特定年份。

The next page is -- as I said, we've announced a new dividend that we will start to pay tomorrow, is ARS 55 billion, around ARS 76 per share or ARS 761 per ADR is a dividend yield of 7%, that this dividend together with the previous dividend that we distributed in October, reach an amount of almost $120 million of dividends. So this is an extraordinary dividend. We feel comfortable with our financial situation and liquidity and the low leverage, so we decided to be more aggressive on the dividend.

下一頁是——正如我所說，我們已經宣布了明天開始支付的新股息，為 550 億阿根廷比索，每股約 76 比索或每份 ADR 761 比索，股息收益率為 7%，這加上我們10月派發的上一次股息，股利金額接近1.2億美元。所以這是一筆非凡的股利。我們對我們的財務狀況、流動性以及低槓桿率感到滿意，因此我們決定在股息方面更加積極。

Regarding the ADR holders, we don't expect a delay like in the last one. So we expect to fix a record date for the ADRs probably in the next 10 days. So we expect that our ADR holders will collect in dollars the dividend soon. This will be using the blue chip swap effects and not at the official FX.

關於 ADR 持有者，我們預計不會出現像上一次那樣的延遲。因此，我們預計可能會在未來 10 天內確定 ADR 的記錄日期。因此，我們預計我們的美國存託憑證持有人很快就會以美元形式收取股息。這將使用藍籌股掉期效應，而不是官方外匯。

So in the following page, we see the evolution of the debt. Also on a pro forma basis, including the dividend distribution, we will be in levels very conservative of that. So we feel very comfortable with these numbers.

因此，在下一頁中，我們將看到債務的演變。同樣在預計的基礎上，包括股息分配，我們的水平將非常保守。所以我們對這些數字感到非常滿意。

About the shares repurchase programs. As you know, we launched two (inaudible) programs, one that we finished in March and the second one we finished in April. So together, we acquired around 1.7% of the shares. And together with the last program that we acquired a year ago, we have in treasury around 2.2% of the shares.

關於股票回購計畫。如您所知，我們啟動了兩個（聽不清楚）計劃，一個於三月完成，第二個於四月完成。因此，我們總共收購了約 1.7% 的股份。加上我們一年前收購的最後一個計劃，我們庫存了大約 2.2% 的股份。

So with this, we finish the formal presentation. Now we open the line to receive your questions.

至此，我們就完成了正式的演示。現在我們開通熱線接受您的提問。

Well, now is the time for the Q&A session. If you have a question, you can use the chat, we will take the questions in the order we receive them.

好了，現在是問答時間。如果您有疑問，可以使用聊天功能，我們將按照收到問題的順序回答問題。

Well, here, we have for the first question, which is the time line -- the timing expected for the Costa Urbana project? You can give some color on the timing.

好吧，我們的第一個問題是時間軸——Costa Urbana 項目預計的時間表？您可以在時間上給出一些顏色。

The timing is, as I said before, we need the environmental hearing, that should be in June, July. And from then, we can start the construction. So as we start the construction, we're going to start selling the lands. We need to start infrastructure to start selling the land.

正如我之前所說，時間安排是我們需要一個環境聽證會，應該是在六月、七月。從那時起，我們就可以開始施工了。因此，當我們開始建造時，我們將開始出售土地。我們需要啟動基礎設施才能開始出售土地。

So I suppose that in the second semester of this year, all that's going to happen. We're going to start with the works and we're going to start with all the commercial (inaudible) of the plots. And maybe even starting a building of our own, maybe in the next semester in the next year, first semester of '25.

所以我想在今年第二學期，這一切都會發生。我們將從作品開始，我們將從情節的所有廣告（聽不清楚）開始。甚至可能會在明年的下學期，也就是 25 年的第一學期開始建造我們自己的建築。

Also, Jorge, it's important to mention that the environmental hearing is not binding. So we don't need that to start the construction. It's one step more, but it is...

另外，豪爾赫，必須指出的是，環境聽證會不具約束力。所以我們不需要它來開始建造。雖然又多了一步，但是…

It is, but you need that approval. You need to do it first before construction. So after the hearing, we can start construction.

確實如此，但您需要獲得批准。您需要在施工之前先進行此操作。聽證會結束後，我們就可以開始施工了。

Thank you, Jorge. The next question coming from [balance]. What are your expectations for the Office segment in fiscal year '25? Do you plan to continue divesting from the Office segment?

謝謝你，豪爾赫。下一個問題來自[平衡]。您對 25 財年的辦公部門有何期望？您是否計劃繼續從辦公部門剝離？

And there is another one. What are your expectations for maintenance and expansion CapEx for the last quarter of fiscal year '24 and fiscal year '25? Would expansion efforts be allocated to your mixed-use projects only?

還有另外一個。您對 24 財年最後一個季度和 25 財年的維護和擴張資本支出有何預期？擴建工作是否僅分配給您的混合用途項目？

The first part regarding the Office segment. About the operational side, we don't expect a major change. Prices are stable in dollar terms. Of course, in pesos, we are receiving now something more close to the real dollars than before. Remember that the gap between the official FX and the blue chip was like [300] in December, and now it's only 20% difference. So now we are getting much more close to the real value of the dollars.

第一部分關於辦公室部分。關於營運方面，我們預計不會有重大變化。以美元計算價格穩定。當然，以比索計算，我們現在收到的比以前更接近真實的美元。請記住，12 月官方外匯與藍籌股之間的差距約為 [300]，而現在只有 20% 的差距。所以現在我們越來越接近美元的真正價值。

And on the divesting process, as we always said, we don't anticipate the transactions. But if we see good prices, we are not just accumulators of square meters. So if we see good opportunities to divest the portfolio, we will continue to do it and probably rotate that portfolio in a new one in the future. So we are open and it's part of our strategy to rotate the portfolio.

在剝離過程中，正如我們常說的，我們不會預期交易。但如果我們看到好的價格，我們就不僅僅是平方公尺的累積者。因此，如果我們看到剝離投資組合的好機會，我們將繼續這樣做，並可能在未來將該投資組合輪換為新的投資組合。因此，我們持開放態度，輪換投資組合是我們策略的一部分。

And regarding the expectations of maintenance CapEx and the expansion for the next year, it's not a significant CapEx so far when we announced it. So we will deploy around $40 million in the infrastructure of Costa Urbana, probably during 2025. La Plata projects will need around, I would say, no more than $10 million during 2025. And maintenance CapEx is not significant in our existing malls, so it's probably around 2% of our EBITDA.

至於維護資本支出和明年擴張的預期，到目前為止，當我們宣布它時，這並不是一個重大的資本支出。因此，我們可能會在 2025 年期間在 Costa Urbana 的基礎設施上部署約 4000 萬美元。我想說，到 2025 年，拉普拉塔計畫的需求將不會超過 1,000 萬美元。維護資本支出在我們現有的購物中心中並不重要，因此可能約為我們 EBITDA 的 2% 左右。

I don't know Jorge, if you want to add something else?

我不知道豪爾赫，你還想補充什麼嗎？

No, I think that's about right.

不，我認為這是正確的。

And the (inaudible) Plata, remember that IRSA is the developer and also is an investor, and we will invest around 20% of the cost of construction, but the construction will take like 2 or 3 years to develop. So it's not a significant amount of money that what IRSA will invest in that project.

還有（聽不清楚）Plata，請記住，IRSA 是開發商，也是投資者，我們將投資約 20% 的建設成本，但建設將需要 2 到 3 年的時間來開發。因此，IRSA 在該項目上的投資金額並不大。

This is only with what we announced. Also, we are looking for opportunities to acquire existing land [bank] -- land of existing buildings. So maybe we can be more aggressive on the acquisition side. But so far, what we announced on the development side is what we described.

這只是我們宣布的內容。此外，我們正在尋找機會收購現有土地[銀行]—現有建築物的土地。因此，也許我們可以在收購方面更加積極。但到目前為止，我們在開發方面所宣布的就是我們所描述的。

Next question, how long do you think it will take for tenant sales to recover? Are wages index being followed to predict this?

下一個問題，您認為租戶銷售需要多長時間才能恢復？是否根據薪資指數來預測這一點？

That's not an easy question to answer. This will depend on the evolution on the macro side. You know that with the acceleration of inflation, wages were not adjusted at the same pace. So we will need to see recovery on wages.

這不是一個容易回答的問題。這將取決於宏觀方面的演變。要知道，隨著通貨膨脹的加速，薪資並沒有同步調整。因此，我們需要看到工資的復甦。

And also something that happened in consumption that with the normalization of prices in tariff in general terms, transportation utilities, the people will receive increases in -- and government is trying to cut subsidies that will also affect consumption power of the people.

消費方面也發生了一些事情，隨著一般關稅價格的正常化，交通公用事業，人民將獲得增加——而政府正在試圖削減補貼，這也會影響人民的消費能力。

So it's tough to predict how fast the economy will recover. There is a big discussion in the -- between the economies if the economy will recover in a way of (inaudible) or other or more slowly. But what we anticipated that what we see and we anticipated this in December, that we won't see increase in real terms in our tenant sales at least for the next months.

因此很難預測經濟復甦的速度。各經濟體之間正在展開一場大討論，討論經濟是否會以某種（聽不清楚）或其他或更緩慢的方式復甦。但我們在 12 月所看到的情況以及我們的預期是，至少在接下來的幾個月裡，我們的租戶銷售額不會實際成長。

And as (inaudible) said, we expect that started in July to start to see some recovery. But probably in pesos term, we will see weaker results. But maybe in dollar terms, we will see higher numbers because if the dollars remain stable, and the inflation component on the peso side, although we want to increase at the same pace of inflation, in dollar terms, maybe we will see better results.

正如（聽不清楚）所說，我們預計從 7 月開始將開始看到一些復甦。但從比索來看，我們可能會看到較弱的結果。但也許以美元計算，我們會看到更高的數字，因為如果美元保持穩定，比索方面的通膨部分，儘管我們希望以與通膨相同的速度增長，但以美元計算，也許我們會看到更好的結果。

Yes, and at the end of the year it won't close so bad because we had a first semester of the fiscal year very strong and the second semester weak. So it compensates at an annual basis.

是的，到今年年底，情況不會那麼糟糕，因為我們本財年第一學期非常強勁，而第二學期則疲軟。所以它每年都會補償。

But having said that, when we see the levels of cash generation on the EBITDA side remain very strong, and most of our agreements today adjust the CPI, although we have some lag to adjust of 1 month to adjust of 1 or 2 months to adjust the agreement. But we have that protection that most part adjust by inflation. So that will be a protection in this kind of slowdown in consumption.

但話雖如此，當我們看到 EBITDA 方面的現金產生水準仍然非常強勁，我們今天的大多數協議都會調整 CPI 時，儘管我們有一些延遲調整（1 個月調整）或 1 或 2 個月調整協定.但我們擁有的保護措施大部分會根據通貨膨脹進行調整。因此，這將是對這種消費放緩的一種保護。

We give 2 minutes more. If there is any additional questions, you can use the chat. Okay. If there are no more questions, we conclude the Q&A session, and we turn back to Matias for his closing remarks.

我們再給2分鐘。如果還有任何其他問題，您可以使用聊天功能。好的。如果沒有其他問題，我們將結束問答環節，然後請馬蒂亞斯發表結束語。

Thank you very much, Santi.

非常感謝你，桑蒂。

So as I said, we are very confident on the normalization of the economy. We believe that, that will create a lot of opportunities for IRSA to be more aggressive on the expansion, new projects. As you know, during the last 3 years, we were very focused in preserved liquidity and to work, and we saw much more opportunities in our own capital structure than launching new projects.

正如我所說，我們對經濟正常化充滿信心。我們相信，這將為 IRSA 創造大量機會，使其能夠更積極地擴展新項目。如您所知，在過去的三年中，我們非常注重保留流動性和工作，我們在自己的資本結構中看到了比啟動新專案更多的機會。

But we hope to see IRSA leading the real estate industry in Argentina. So we expect to be much more aggressive in the expansion. If the new administration achieved a normalization of the economy, the cost of the capital of the company is reduced. We can be much more aggressive. You know that we have plenty of land to expand our portfolio. So we hope to see IRSA in a new stage of growth going forward.

但我們希望看到 IRSA 引領阿根廷房地產產業。因此，我們預計在擴張方面會更加積極。如果新政府實現經濟正常化，公司的資本成本就會降低。我們可以更加積極進取。您知道我們有足夠的土地來擴大我們的投資組合。因此，我們希望看到 IRSA 進入一個新的發展階段。

So thank you very much and see you in the next call.

非常感謝您，我們下次通話再見。